Question:

But,one can build the body into most of the bend, use hook shape to the advantage of simulation.

That’s true, especially for scuds, caddis pupae, etc.  Still, by far my most productive fly, a bead-head PT on a TMC 3761, has a pretty straight body that takes up no more than half the total hook length (eye to point). I agree with your earlier statement, "On many subsurface patterns, and even some  surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph, pupa or whatever", especially for those forms, like emerging pupae that have associated air bubbles.  The hook bend may correspond in the trout’s eye to the curved edge of the bubble or bubble mass.   Although it’s an uncommon fly, compare the picture of the daphnia fly Dave LaCourse found and posted on ROFT http://www.danica.com/flytier/hverhaar/daphnia.htm to photos of daphnia http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artjun99/wflea.html Without the hook bend, there’d be little resemblance.  Makes you wonder if all those tiny things on curved #24-28 hooks that we think are midge patterns aren’t really taken by the trout as daphnia (not that it really matters). JR

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Some manufacturers are now producing bright gold, green, red and blue salmon/steelhead hooks.  Why waste all that bare metal when you can dress it up?

One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see. Sandy

Response:

Maybe that big curvy part looks like an ovipositor.  See my web site www.sluttyflies.com

Here’s the sex spam we were looking for.  Bugs waving their ovipositors around.  Hmmph. Sandy

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  One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see.

They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer.

Did you see who the hook’s maker was? If someone here’s interested in trying it for themselves, you can buy metallic paint (normally used for jewelry) here: http://www.fancifulsinc.com/ Sandy

Response:

You’d think (regardless of your species-specific sense of perception) that this big ol’ ugly THING just hanging there off the bottom of our handiwork is a lot more obvious than the many fine details we obsess over.  Why on earth would any trout swimming not key on THAT?

Depending on the angle the fish sees it from, yes it’s very obvious and I have no doubt whatever that the trout sees it.  But trout are also very used to seeing things on insects – broken legs and wings, a sliver of leaf or filament of weed, or even a pebble and twig case on a caddis.  The trout sees it and just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will.  Only if a trout has been hooked a number of times would he actually recognize it as a "bad" insect, IMO.

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Did you see who the hook’s maker was? If someone here’s interested in trying it for themselves, you can buy metallic paint (normally used for jewelry) here: http://www.fancifulsinc.com/

The hooks I saw were not labeled.  It looked like the shop had bought them bulk and packaged them in little zip lock bags on their own.  I will call out there tomorrow and find out where they bought them at.  I do recall they were expensive (like $10 for 25 hooks if I remember correctly) so your metallic paint idea might be a very good alternative. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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"The trout just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will." "Assumes", to deduce.  The ability to come to a logical conclusion based on facts.   "Trout", to be a genius.  The ability to attend college courses without paying tuitions.  To Trout, as to flaunt wonderful phrases upon non-thinking ass holes who fly fish as a reflex action. "Seeing Trout" extablishes the ability to understand languages such as English. "Feeding Trout", The need to eat with the foreknowledge that to not do so will result in death.   "Dieting Trout", as in "Free Rising" selective trout who know the difference between choosing either a protein insect over one burden with excessive carbohydrates and undesirable fiber. Flyfisherman:  That which has a brain the size of a pea and who talks to the fishes as in Mafia Fisherman.   All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

Warren Findley: One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see. They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer. —

I’ve been using red nymph hooks for five or six years.  It’s the only color I’ve seen in the smaller sizes. As far as glitter is concerned, good old nail polish (Wet and Wild) with the silver or gold flecks in it works well.  Also, Orvis sells some head cement with silver flecks.   Dave

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I’ve been using red nymph hooks for five or six years.  It’s the only color I’ve seen in the smaller sizes. As far as glitter is concerned, good old nail polish (Wet and Wild) with the silver or gold flecks in it works well.  Also, Orvis sells some head cement with silver flecks. Dave

Do you think there’s an advantage in using colored hooks? The nail polish idea is a good one — you can get it in any crazy color these days, and Wet & Wild is pretty cheap, but the clerk at the store might look at you funny. Sandy

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Reading about colored hooks now is a revelation to me Jon and I suppose it makes sense to include the hook coloring of olive, for instance, to add to the tone of an olive caddis emerger, for instance.  It seems this is one of those rare instances where the present generation is going to drag me, screaming and kicking into the future.  I might be an old dog learning new tricks but it doesn’t mean I have to like it. Now if you please, would someone hold my hand down hard upon this table so it won’t lift that shot of Jack Daniels to my quivering lips? Mr. G. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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……. But trout are also very used to seeing things on insects – broken legs and wings, a sliver of leaf or filament of weed, or even a pebble and twig case on a caddis.  The trout sees it and just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will.  Only if a trout has been hooked a number of times would he actually recognize it as a "bad" insect, IMO.

Yes, that’s all plausible. JR

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Do you think there’s an advantage in using colored hooks? The nail polish idea is a good one — you can get it in any crazy color these days, and Wet & Wild is pretty cheap, but the clerk at the store might look at you funny.

I called up that fly shop in Dillon and they said the hooks are manufactured by Daiichi.  I checked the Daiichi website and they have red, black, nickel and gold hooks in a variety of styles.  Unfortunately they do not list their hooks that would be of use to fly fishermen so I emailed the company for more information.  Here is a link to their website if you care to take a look. http://www.daiichihooks.com/daiichi/index.html — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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I called up that fly shop in Dillon and they said the hooks are manufactured by Daiichi.  I checked the Daiichi website and they have red, black, nickel and gold hooks in a variety of styles.  Unfortunately they do not list their hooks that would be of use to fly fishermen so I emailed the company for more information.  Here is a link to their website if you care to take a look. http://www.daiichihooks.com/daiichi/index.html

   Another manufacturer of colored hooks is Gamakatsu (www.gamakatsu.com). I’ve seen them in the local fly shops but never tied with them, but I’ll vouch for the quality of their product. I was a serious ocean/big game fisherman in a past life; Gamakatsu and Owner were the only hooks I’d use.

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Warren?  Wouldn’t you t hink a gold hook would most likely be like adding gold tinsel to a fly?  I don’t know. George All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.

I agree it’s mostly a factor in slower, richer streams.  I’d have thought, though, it was also more important with subsurface flies than with dries, first because the "profile" of the bend is reduced when viewed from below, and second because, as well described by Peter in the Fly Perceptions thread, it may be that the bare part of the hook is somewhat masked by the dimples and associated halos caused by the hackle and tail. JR

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When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!!

Sorry.  Fine state of affairs when we *expect* to see sex spam, ain’t it? What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well???

Well, my speculations were just musings.  To me, it remains a great mystery that fish will overlook something so conspicuous.  On the other hand, say a fish ignores a nymph presented once, twice, and takes it on the third cast.  It might well be that, just by chance, the fly was turned the third time in a way to present a top or bottom view (with the bare hook bend hidden), while the first two times, again by chance alone, the fly passed the fish turned in a way that presented the fly more in profile, with the bend more exposed. When fishing the traditional downstream swing for steelhead here in the PNW, one tactic is to throw upstream mends to slow down the swing, allowing the fish the longest possible view of the fly (a good tactic when swinging soft hackles for trout, too).  A disadvantage is that unless you use a riffle hitch or some such, the view the fish has tends to be a butt-on, reduced view.  It addition to the riffle hitch, a greased line presentation also serves to give the fish a full profile view of the fly.  The difference (from fishing for trout) is that you just want the steelhead to see the very most of whatever silhouette the fly happens to have, to maximize the sheer provocation value of the fly–you’re not trying to imitate any particular natural foodstuff.  Here the more bare hook you have visible, maybe the better.  Some manufacturers are now producing bright gold, green, red and blue salmon/steelhead hooks.  Why waste all that bare metal when you can dress it up? JR

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I’ve often wondered about that "big-ass curvy part", but most of the time it doesn’t seem to bother the trout’s attraction to the lure.

Good thing, too, otherwise we’d all have to find another sport.  ;)  I guess that’s what amazes me:  that it *doesn’t* bother the fish while very minor differences in other parts of the fly will make a difference. JR

Response:

Maybe that big curvy part looks like an ovipositor.  See my web site www.sluttyflies.com

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I believe that many streams (I know of three) where the fish are "opportunistic" — that is, if it looks like it could be food, they will strike it.  On the rivers I recently visited in Idaho, there was no hatch, yet they readily took a humpy or a Klinkhammer, the bigger the better.  The guide gave my grandson a #10 red humpy and I marveled at its effectiveness.   This is just the opposite of another river I fish – when there is no hatch, the fish will rise to a very small, well presented dry.  Nymphing the rivers in Idaho was very successful, but again you had to give them a big nymph.  My #18s and 20s were useless.  Those same 18s and 20s on another river will catch many fish.

"Bigger is better" is right. I seldom use dries smaller than #12 or nymphs smaller than #14 in those Idaho waters you fished. I think the deal is that they’re relatively sterile freestone rivers. The fish jump on whatever they see that looks edible. Large, good floating Chernobyl patterns with dropper nymphs are very effective. So are large orange stimulators. You can catch these fish with an indicator attached to a bare hook. I only use the standard nymph patterns — pheasant tails, hare’s ears, prince nymphs, and lately copper johns. Also, the fish are mostly cutthroats, which are notoriously gullible. It doesn’t make for particularly challenging fishing (aside from the ass-busting hiking to get to the good spots), but it’s fun. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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John replies:  I’d have thought, though, it was also more important with subsurface flies than with dries, first because the "profile" of the bend is reduced when viewed from below,

But,one can build the body into most of the bend, use hook shape to the advantage of simulation. it may be that the bare part of the hook is somewhat masked by the dimples and associated halos caused by the hackle and tail.

I disagree. If you watch how a fresh, well hackled dry fly floats, the hook penetrates the surface,except for a tightly palmered hackle. Most dries settle right on top of the surface with the body, with some hackle tips in the water and the ones on the sides doing the work of holding the fly up. Anyhow, the hook will be seen, and quite distinctly from the body silhouette.                              Tom L

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John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend

I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.                                Tom L

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John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.

When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!! What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well??? Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi writes: John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever. When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!! What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well??? Willi

I believe that many streams (I know of three) where the fish are "opportunistic" — that is, if it looks like it could be food, they will strike it.  On the rivers I recently visited in Idaho, there was no hatch, yet they readily took a humpy or a Klinkhammer, the bigger the better.  The guide gave my grandson a #10 red humpy and I marveled at its effectiveness.   This is just the opposite of another river I fish – when there is no hatch, the fish will rise to a very small, well presented dry.  Nymphing the rivers in Idaho was very successful, but again you had to give them a big nymph.  My #18s and 20s were useless.  Those same 18s and 20s on another river will catch many fish. I’ve often wondered about that "big-ass curvy part", but most of the time it doesn’t seem to bother the trout’s attraction to the lure. Dave

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The recent discussion about wings, fishes’ perception, etc., reminded me of something I’ve often wondered, even marveled about–one of those things that come unbidden to mind on the thousandth (or two thousandth) fishless cast of the day on a steelhead river. Those of us who agonize over the minutiae of wing size, or number of fibers in the tail, or shade of copper in the ribbing:  just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend that on some patterns constitutes 50% or more of the whole gestalt (if you’ll pardon the word) presented to the fish?  Think of some ties you’ve seen of English PTs or soft hackles on those short hooks with absolutely huge gaps; yet these are effective flies.  You’d think (regardless of your species-specific sense of perception) that this big ol’ ugly THING just hanging there off the bottom of our handiwork is a lot more obvious than the many fine details we obsess over.  Why on earth would any trout swimming not key on THAT? I’d imagine the influence of the hook bend is least when the fly is viewed from directly above (in which case for most flies, it’s invisible); almost as little when viewed from directly below; slightly greater when viewed at an oblique angle above, behind, or to side; and greatest when viewed at right angles from the side.   If this is right, could it be one reason (in addition to the commonly cited ones) a straight downstream presentation of a dry is successful when casting to selective fish on calm waters?  Could there be implications for presentation of nymphs in slower water?  A reason why LaFontaine’s sparkle pupa (with the bend shrouded) is so effective?  A reason to use nothing but the lightest wire hooks available? (A reason for me to get a life and think about more useful things?) JR

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Question:

I just got an old willow creel from a friend. The willow look pretty dry and there is no varnish to protect it. Since i want to use it when i’m fly fishing should i put something on it , if so what should i use; Varnish, linseed oil…….or is there any special product i should know of? Thanks for your help! Before you buy.

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I just got an old willow creel from a friend. The willow look pretty dry and there is no varnish to protect it. Since i want to use it when i’m fly fishing should i put something on it , if so what should i use; Varnish, linseed oil…….or is there any special product i should know of?

Yo Robert.   I’m heading down to the fly shop today.   You get the latest FFA yet? Joe F.

Response:

Willow creels require no maintenance apart from a wash now and again. Line the creel with damp grass before placing fish in it. You may also soak the creel in the stream before placing fish in it.  The evaporation which then ensues helps keep the fish cool.  The grass also prevents too much slime from soaking into the creel itself and producing the most horrendous stink. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

I am an average fisher and I would like to know if anyone out there would know of a good pole brand to buy that is now too expensive but gets the job done

Response:

Pole?  Oh, boy are you gonna hear about that! Just head out to your local flyfishing shop and take a beginners class.  You’ll get to use their rods and find what appeals to you.  It’ll be worth the $ in the long run.   —  markb I am an average fisher and I would like to know if anyone out there would know of a good pole brand to buy that is now too expensive but gets the job done

"Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

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I am an average fisher and I would like to know if anyone out there would know of a good pole brand to buy that is now too expensive but gets the job done

  Might I suggest the BASTARD bamboo fly pole from Grand old American George Gerkhe?   Ah, shoot, you’re probably serious aren’t you?  St.  Croix is, I think, the best of the entry-level rods.

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stacmarsh wrote I am an average fisher and I would like to know if anyone out there would know of a good pole brand to buy that is now too expensive but gets the job done

Mr. Marsh (or is it Mr. Math) Please repeat after me: This is my rod.    I called it a pole. Now the ghost of ‘ol Izaak    Has damned my soul.  ;-) A "pole" is one of those bamboo things with some kite string tied on the end … you know … like George makes As for your question, I’m not too sure how to answer until I know what you mean by "not too expensive".  For example, since high end rods (graphite) can get upwards of $400 these days, a Sage Discovery Series at around $200+ is inexpensive by comparison.  And if you are not real experienced, it will be awhile before you can appreciate the differences between a good rod, such as a Sage DS, and one of the more expensive models. I started out with a rod that was less than $50, but it really is pretty much of a dog.  If you really intend to stay in the sport, a couple of C notes is worth it for a rod that’ll keep you satisfied for several years. —                                                       -dnc-

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Question:

Yes, I too find myself fishing for ‘gills and crappies quite often. Whenever I take children fishing, which is pretty often in the summer, the almost constant action keeps them really excited. Besides pan fish are a lot more tasty than any other freshwater fish…..IMHO Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange

<snip — Remove the "NoSpam" to e-mail me

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haven’t fish for ‘em much, but I heard of a killer tip:  in the fall, after the 2nd or 3rd good cold front, go fish the absolute deepest part of the lake (reservoir) with crickets – fish on the bottom,this is where the monster ‘gills are……. — ‘92 Dak CC 2wd 318 3.55 ‘84 GoldWing Interstate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Readers        Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

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Yeah I like to fish for"we call’em bluegill" out here in Oregon. Right now it is pretty cold for them. Ialso like to go fishing for perch. My son & I have agood spot to fish for perch & bluegil. My son lives up in Washington state & we always get enough for a good fish dinner.I also

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       Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail,

Brad Count me in – on the water, or on the ice, if they will bite, I’ll fish for them. Wild rice beds in August is where I’ve had the best sucess – in about 5-6′ of water, using about .5-.75" section of leach, with about a #8 or #10 hook and a balsa wood pencil type bobber. Combine that w/ an ultra light and 4 or 6# test line and I’m a happy camper. And just to keep it interesting – look out for the occasional LM Bass or Northern. No better eating fish either. Later Jim

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Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

   You’ll find that most fly fishermen in the deep south pursue panfish and other warm water species (aint a lotta trout in Fl.) myself included. Some trout flies work well such as the wooly bugger and all the terestrials. Crawfish imitations are also productive as are grass shrimp. small poppers in various colors also put food on the table. I use the 7.5′(because of brush) 3 piece 3wt Cabela’s three forks rod for panfish. It’s a great little rod though a bit soft feeling to cast but has plenty of backbone. Use 7x tippets. It’s a real lark netting a 1lb panfish and to my way of thinking is the ultimate fishing experience.                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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I dig um’ Tim Apple " Always one step closer to going Postal! " – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.   You’ll find that most fly fishermen in the deep south pursue panfish and other warm water species (aint a lotta trout in Fl.) myself included. Some trout flies work well such as the wooly bugger and all the terestrials. Crawfish imitations are also productive as are grass shrimp. small poppers in various colors also put food on the table. I use the 7.5′(because of brush) 3 piece 3wt Cabela’s three forks rod for panfish. It’s a great little rod though a bit soft feeling to cast but has plenty of backbone. Use 7x tippets. It’s a real lark netting a 1lb panfish and to my way of thinking is the ultimate fishing experience.                                                          John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

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Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

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Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them?

YES!  Down here in AL I have access to a pond that is loaded with big black-headed, thick bream.  I love that "side to side" action and screaming microlight drag when I hook into one.  Besides that, they taste better than a bass any day!  I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

*                                                               * *  ENTOMOLOGIST    ANTIQUE TACKLE COLLECTOR    ALL-AROUND NUT   *

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Oh Yes! Two of my all time favorites is the Red Ear and the Pumpkinseed. People don’t know what fun these little guys can be. Here in SW MO there are a couple of small lakes full of Panfish. Down in this area the best bait is a small squirrel tail jig + wax worms. The largest Red Ear taken from on of the lakes was a little over 12". !0" fish a common around here which in turn, takes less to make a tasty meal. Kevin Way – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Readers        Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

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Question:

A good size brown beats them all. Just the take is enough for me, but the fight and all those minutes of wondering how big he really is. They just stick to the bottom with even, powerful pulls, just shy of breaking the leader. nothing beats this, Browns for me. kmustad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. Yeah, I would vote for the junior rainbows as well.  You gotta love their acrobatics. Bruce….

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(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly.

The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ? TimW

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I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW

Well conditioned sea-run cutts usually fight much like browns or brook trout; they tend to stay deep, pull hard and shake. They may jump a bit more However a fair number of fish become quite acrobatic and will also make good runs, making the reel scream. I have memories of a fair number of these that I took to be small coho. I remember one fish while working the spring time chum migration on the Harrison that body surfed down the wave of a boat wake to snatch my fly and promptly put in 5 or 6 consecutive jumps; sulked a bit then jumped a few more times. Ralph H

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(Eric) writes:   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting   trout:   Eric

Steelhead. OK, next question… -tgades

Response:

 I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ?

I know what you mean, those little dudes I launch into the bushes behind me.  ZZZing!  Quite a surprise.  Poor fish, mindin’ his own bidness, when Bang! Zoom! to the moon! Anglerboy

Response:

Mulberry–not the Marlboro, now–which is tied to imitate a–you got it–mulberry.  But these are hardly fair comparisons.  The best stripe

Gee Dave, I have never of the Mulberry hatch!  ;-) -Burton

Response:

Both choices are wild rainbows: 1- summer steelhead.  Not like a winter fish. The turbos are spun up,they’re taken on lighter tackle, and you may be able to sight-fish with dries.

<<< Yeah, it can be real fun watching a finning steelie turn his head and take your fly.  The most incredible sight I have ever seen was this huge 20+ lb. steelhead rise to an October Caddis on the Siletz.  It looked totally incongrous.  That head looked like a basketball. 2- native redside.  I’ll never forget a 17" Deschutes fish that I would have thought was a steelhead, if I wasn’t after the lead fish in a pod of rising trout.  Incredible fight! <<<

I like those big 20-25 pounders.  I have yet to land one.  They fight so different.  You bring them in a couple of times, then they run back out twenty or thirty yds. then go nuts like a chicken with it’s head cut off.  Then they are gone! -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rainbow, without a doubt.  They hit like a train, leap, make strong runs.  Brown and cutthroats are great bulldoggers, and I have seen browns make some good leaps.  Nothing touches the rainbow/steelhead though. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones I am mostly a eastern fisherman so I don’t know what to expect from western trout but years back I was fishing a tiny stream in Utah that was filled with rainbows of 7-9 inches ( the local flyshop wasn’t even aware of the fishery) and I never battled such feisty fish before as these guys.They just wouldn’t give up…..I landed about 1/2 of what I hooked…… They were absolutely amazing !                                                                                        Jody

It sounds like you need to visit the Pacific Northwest Jody!  You would get the battle of your like from some of our brutes. -Burton

Response:

….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ? TimW

Yes, they usually hit me in the face. If I open my mouth I can eat them right then! DJones

Response:

(Eric) says: : : I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting : trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow : because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns : also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and : hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other : flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. : : Eric : : my vote: : : 1) Gerard Strain Rainbows of Kootney Lake  BC; hands down : 2) Kamloops strain Rainbow of the South Interior of BC : : Gerard have the acrobatics and drive of any fish that swims plus : considerably more strength than any salmonid I’ve ever hooked; : including browns; various strains of cutts, Madison, Bow River and : Crowsnnest Rainbows; steelhead ; cohoe etc : : Kamloops fish combine great acrobatics and strength with are largely : insectorvious (sp) : I definitely second Eric’s vote.  The Kamloops trout is very widespread in Southeastern BC. and NE Washington State. – Keith

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The best fighting trout is the one you have on your line right now

Response:

I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Eric

I like Half-pounders on the lower Klamath river in Nor Cal and the lower Rogue river southern Oregon. These are small fall run steelhead, ocean going rainbow trout. They run 12 to 22 inches and are hot as a pistol. They are a great fly rod fish and there are less of them every year. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows.

Yeah, I would vote for the junior rainbows as well.  You gotta love their acrobatics. Bruce….

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All of the trouts and chars have periods when they are more aggressive and better fighters.  Get a pre-spawn brown or rainbow and you have a much better situation then these same fish at other times of the years. I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW I had the opportunity (and luck) to fish for skamania steelhead at Trail Creek this July.  These

fish were a fresh summer run strain from Lake Michigan, I don’t really know where the original brood stock came from but I think it was Wash.  They were absolutly incredible fighters, much better than "normal" strains of steelhead. Vince

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All of the trouts and chars have periods when they are more aggressive and better fighters.  Get a pre-spawn brown or rainbow and you have a much better situation then these same fish at other times of the years.   I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Eric, I think the rainbow is a real acrobatic fighter while the brown is more like a bull dog.  Also the cutthroat, the brookie, and the golden all vie with each other over which is the most beautiful that depending water and environment. My favorite trout happens to be the one that’s on the end of the line but I do have a bit of a preference for Mr. Brown Trout. My favorite fish on a fly rod would be a large white fish or carp from the side channel in the lower Yellowstone River. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow I like Half-pounders on the lower Klamath river in Nor Cal and the lower Rogue river southern Oregon. These are small fall run steelhead, ocean going rainbow

Umm, yeah I forgot about the half-pounders!  They are little silver missiles.  Probably the friskiest fish I’ve ever had on.  The Rogue is a great river.  They are protecting them now. -Burton

Response:

(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow BTW–has anyone developed fly to imitate the fish-food-pellet hatch? It could float for a second then sink to the bottom where it would swell up DJones No, but I have seen some pretty novel approaches to "fly fishing".  On the

Metolius River I have seen a yellow Cheeto Fly and a white Bread-crumb Fly fished below the Allingham Bridge from which tourist types are prone to throw things in an effort to get a rise from a big fish.  It frequently works. -Burton

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I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around TimW Yeah, the sea-run cutt’s are dynamite hear on the Oregon Coast.  However,

they have declined so bad it’s getting hard to find them.  I pick one up occasionally while targeting other fish.  They strike like it’s their last meal. Burton

Response:

I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout.

My preference is the rainbow, since I like fish that jump.  Brown’s give you a nice tug of war, but that’s about all.  Then best of all is the sea-run rainbow, the steelhead.  I have had hens that I swear could tailwalk on the water. -Burton

Response:

I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when TimW I had the opportunity (and luck) to fish for skamania steelhead at Trail Creek this July.  These fish were a fresh summer run strain from Lake Michigan, I don’t really know where the original brood stock came from but I think it was Wash.  They were absolutly incredible fighters, much better than "normal" strains of steelhead. Vince Yup, nice fighting fish!  One of the better strains for flyfishing.  They

originally came from the Washougal in Washington, but now are all over the place including Peru. -Burton

Response:

(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout.

Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. They can leap many times their own length out of the water and they run back and forth like their life depended on it. (Reminds me of my kid on too many snicker bars) And ya gotta hand it to them for their gusto going for that huge fly, it must look like a whole day

Question:

Hi, Just wondered if anyone out there owns and fishes off a JonBoat..  I’ve considered buying one for the winter season to do a lot of shallow water fishing down here in South Florida.  I’m favoring a small sized boat 12′ or under, and i was hoping someone could give me there views on how these boats performed for flats/bay fishing, or just getting around for fun..   Also, if anyone has a 3Hp motor any make or model, how do u feel that performs.  I know many of them hold only like a quart of fuel, just wondered how long u can run on a quart during ideal conditions(weather).   Please email any comments, thanks!  pr

Response:

I’ve been fishing an 11 1/2′ aluminum jon boat for years on the bonefish and redfish flats of Florida, and I love it.  I use the same boat summers up here in Maryland on the Potomac for smallmouth bass.  It’s indestructible and floats in about 5 inches of water.  With one person on board, it’s plenty stable.  I carpeted the bottom to cut down on noise and to keep the fly line from catching on the slats and ribs on the bottom. For a motor (when I use one), I prefer an electric motor (35lb thrust), which moves it along pretty well.  Most of the time I pole or row.  To be honest, I use it to get myself to the flat and then wade if possible (except up north near JAX, where the bottom is too mushy), but all in all it’s a great fishing platform. Regards, Doug

Response:

Hi, I think a small john boat is great for spur of the moment fishing. Have used one off and on for over 30 years. Enen tho’ I now have a 17 ft. bass boat and a salt water boat I still use the jon boat once in awhile. Mine has a 6 horse Johnson and before thsat I used a 5 horse. It’s great for crabbing, floundering as well as fishing. Good Luck PresG

Response:

Hi, Just wondered if anyone out there owns and fishes off a JonBoat..  I’ve considered buying one for the winter season to do a lot of shallow water fishing down here in South Florida.  I’m favoring a small sized boat 12′ or under, and i was hoping someone could give me there views on how these boats performed for flats/bay fishing, or just getting around for fun.. Also, if anyone has a 3Hp motor any make or model, how do u feel that performs.  I know many of them hold only like a quart of fuel, just wondered how long u can run on a quart during ideal conditions(weather). Please email any comments, thanks!  pr

Have a 3 horse Yamaha on an Old Town 13 foot Discovery Sport Boat. Yamaha has given me no trouble for 4 years. Holds about a quart of pre-mix 100 to 1 ( yes, 100 to 1 ) gas and oil and runs for about 3 hours at trolling speed. Have used this rig from CT lakes all the way up to the Grand Lakes of Maine. Car tops, and is great for river launch. Boat weighs 80 pounds, motor 32 pounds . In my opinion, I’d can the jon boat and take a hard look at this combination. Neil

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Question:

TESTAMENT OF A "YUFFIE" I fish because I love to shop in Orvis shops. Because I love to flash my Gold Visa card, which makes me invaribly important and visually impressive on C&R waters; and makes me hate the open waters,where C&K people are found,because they invaribly do not spend as much money, to be as "SPECIAL" as me.

Most of the C&R enthusiasts in my area are blue-collar tradesmen: carpenters, plumbers, guys who work for the phone company or the electrical company.  They are the strongest supporters of C&R waters near their homes, because they can’t afford rich peoples’ trips to exotic locations.  They know that if there is to be quality fishing for themselves and their children, it’s got to be available close to home. Because of all the television commercials, flyfishing chat at cocktail parties, and social acceptibility of C&R in assorted social posturings. I’m socially and politically correct.

Well, now that it’s so unfashionable to insult blacks or women, I guess you’re free to make fun of C&R fishermen.  Go ahead with your own posturings; our shoulders are broad.  Have a good time.  Why let the facts interfere with your fun? Woods Hole, MA   USA

Response:

Did you check your sense of humor at the door this morning Bob?  I think Nancy is simply issuing a humorous barb to TBone (formally Tim I assume) Walker and not universally condeming C&R parctices. Andy

You might be right, Andy.  Still, I like to laugh with people, not at them. Woods Hole, MA   USA

Response:

Well, now that it’s so unfashionable to insult blacks or women, I guess you’re free to make fun of C&R fishermen.  Go ahead with your own posturings; our shoulders are broad.  Have a good time.  Why let the facts interfere with your fun? Woods Hole, MA   USA

Did you check your sense of humor at the door this morning Bob?  I think Nancy is simply issuing a humorous barb to TBone (formally Tim I assume) Walker and not universally condeming C&R parctices. Andy

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Question:

   Where in Ky can a person learn to fly fish? –

Response:

Hi Contact the Federation of Fly Fishers at 1-800-618-0808 (their National Office).  Ask them for information on a club in your area. The FFF and the affiliate clubs are very focused on teaching the sport.   I think you’ll find them a lot of help. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avial)

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Question:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the

If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

Response:

I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty). If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

PMD emergers are hot right now.

Response:

I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty). If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

Thankfully this high water misconception has curbed the number of ff’ers on the Provo lately.  This is nice as we’ve been catching anywhere from 5 to 10 fish an hour without too many neighbors.  The water is especially clear also, allowing you to see many of the fish.  This also makes for fish holding in very predictable places.  (ie slower deeper water)  The fly selection, now that’s the part that will make or break your day as well. Happy Trails and tattered flies. Curtis Fry FFFTWKISS!!!!

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast. PMD emergers are hot right now.

Mike,         Can you give me a description on the PMD emerger.  I dont know if I have         ever seen one before.         Thanks

Response:

I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty).

I’m moving to Draper this month and have tried the Provo on several occasions.  The dirty water has perplexed me… I’m assuming it has to do with the releases from the dam upstream? With the road construction several years ago did the fishing change somewhat? If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

I want to try the upper section myself. Any advice about access etc.? Coming from an area where my favorite waters are 4 to 5 hrs away, I am indeed excited about living close to the Provo (and Green) Trust I will bump into you on the river some day.         Wherever you go…. There you will be.

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

The Provo is a wonderful river, but nymphs are your only hope.  However, you won’t have to worry about crowds until the 9-5 crowd gets out from work.  You won’t have *much* problem mornings or early afternoons, except for us lousy college students The weather will be hot.  Be prepared for some heat; I’d leave my neoprenes at home.  The river is also higher this year than it has been in the past, but since you are just coming for a vacation, that won’t matter to you, will it? best o’ luck, Jeff Windsor

Response:

Question:

I’ll be in Arizona at the end of March and was wondering about the flyfishing.  Any info?  Thanks, Ed Parsonage.

Response:

I’ll be visiting Arizona in March and was wondering about the flyfishing. Any suggestions? Thanks, Ed Parsonage

Response:

I’ll be visiting Arizona in March and was wondering about the flyfishing. Any suggestions? Thanks, Ed Parsonage

It depends upon the weather. If the high country thaw has started, try some of the lakes in the White Mountains.  The lower lakes (around Show Low) may be available by then. Martin Hewlett Dept. of MCB Univ. of Arizona Tucson, AZ

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