Question:

Conchs – native Key Westers – used to swear there was nothing better than lime juice. Tried it once but it made me feel like a margarita, so I didn’t have it on long enough to say if it really worked. Uhhh, …so where was the salt?

Often comes right out of your skin when the skeeter weather is right, just add lime juice…

Response:

Conchs – native Key Westers – used to swear there was nothing better than lime juice. Tried it once but it made me feel like a margarita, so I didn’t have it on long enough to say if it really worked.

Uhhh, …so where was the salt?

Response:

Naahhh, wasn’t us….  Those Tenderfoot scouts never could catch anything sitting out in the woods (except for a few mosquitos)….. When I was both in the Boy Scouts and later while a scout leader we used to go on Snipe hunts at most every campout. So you’re the one who drove these cute, cuddlies to the brink of extinction. Shame on you and your Boy Scout Troop. Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

– On my retirement adventure from the rolling hills of the Southern Tier in New York State…..    Traveling in my 1999 Dodge 2500 6-spd diesel, 1999 Sunnybrook 27RKFS 5th-wheel

Response:

When I was both in the Boy Scouts and later while a scout leader we used to go on Snipe hunts at most every campout.

So you’re the one who drove these cute, cuddlies to the brink of extinction. Shame on you and your Boy Scout Troop. Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

Response:

I believe they are planning on using student volunteers to conduct an official Snipe Hunt and Count over spring break,

That’s another Guvmint project doomed to failure. While students on  Spring break are prolific hunters they will NOT be looking for snipe. You can bet on that. Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

Response:

Yes. Noseeums are bad news, and unlike mosquitos, nothing less than 50% DEET will deter them for long – at least not in my case. I break out the 95% DEET when I find myself in noseeum country.

NoSeeUms do seem to be stymied by thicker oils on the skin, like Skin So Soft (which I have observed to be useless against skeeters).  One article I read recommended using cooking oil; it would prevent the NoSeeUms from biting thru it and entangle the skeeters — problem is, you look like a walking fly strip!

Response:

Like a lot of other Gummint projects, the intro of the Snipe did not go as planned.  There are still plenty of skeeters and NoSeeUms in evidence and no signs of the Snipe.  I believe they are planning on using student volunteers to conduct an official Snipe Hunt and Count over spring break, but that might turn out to be an unsubstantiated rumor.  Some suspect that the Snipe may have fallen victim to the poachers at the Chokoloskee end of the ENP now that the square grouper fishing has been taken over by the commercial organizations and these folks still have to feed their families. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought since they introduced the Snipe to the Everglades they have been able to control the overwhelming No-seeum population. Correct me if I’m wrong. AL My one and only trip to the Everglades acquainted me with "no-seeums"  - a very tiny black fly that bites.  We stayed at a government campsite somewhere in the Everglades and woke up during the night with my "sunburn" really itching.  Turned on the lights and found those black bugs everywhere. They were so small that screens were no deterrent.  They could just fly right through them.  Fired up the generator, turned on the A/C and it sucked them all into the filters.  Then we could sleep through the night. Dick Lucas

Response:

Correct me if I’m wrong.

Consider yourself corrected. BTW the snipe has been hunted into near extinction and is now on the endagered list. So don’t get caught hunting them at night. Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

Response:

When I was both in the Boy Scouts and later while a scout leader we used to go on Snipe hunts at most every campout.  The Tenderfoot scout on his first campout would get the "honor" of catching the Snipe.  After it was good and dark out, he would be placed out in the woods with a big sack.  We told him that we would beat the brush to drive the Snipes toward him.   Then we went back to camp to have another cup of coffee for the next hour or so.  After that we would sneak up on him and make loud growling sounds as we sneaked up on him.  After that, we brought him back into camp to the great laughter of all the troop. Correct me if I’m wrong. Consider yourself corrected. BTW the snipe has been hunted into near extinction and is now on the endagered list. So don’t get caught hunting them at night. Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

– On my retirement adventure from the rolling hills of the Southern Tier in New York State…..    Traveling in my 1999 Dodge 2500 6-spd diesel, 1999 Sunnybrook 27RKFS 5th-wheel

Response:

Digger writes: BTW the snipe has been hunted into near extinction and is now on the endagered list. So don’t get caught hunting them at night.

Is it ok then to hunt them during the day?  Tougher I know, but maybe more sporting. Mark – who wonders if pate’ of Snail Darter would be good snipe bait.

Response:

Check with the Rangers about the critters; lots of different foot trails, depending on water levels and there are canoes/kayaks for rent. Bug populations depend on the severity of the previous winter; bring plenty of DEET and some long, light-colored clothing; Navy Blue is the most favorite color for skeeters!  Cold showers at Flamingo; also a coin laundry tucked away in the motel there.  No hookups. If you have the time and have never done it before, take one of the airboat rides from the many places along US41. The places flying a striped flag reminiscent of Germany’s flag are Miccosukee-owned. Also, if you have the time, a trip on the people ferry from Biscayne NP visitor’s center out to Elliott Key would prolly be interesting, as would a glass-bottom boat ride to the reef in John Pennekamp SP. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Were planning on taking a trip to the Everglades National Park between March 12th through March 23rd. We’ve never been down there. We would like to see as much wildlife as possible for picture taking without becoming gator bait. We have reservations for Flamingo Park, and Long Pine Key Campground. Question are: 1. Does anyone have suggestions as to what’s the best place to visit for wildlife photography? 2. Are there better campgrounds then the one’s in the park? 3. How bad are the insects? 4. What can I expect as to access to the trails, crowds, etc? Really appreciate the input.

Response:

Bug populations depend on the severity of the previous winter; bring plenty of DEET and some long,

We happened to be there (Flamingo) after a dry period, no rain for two weeks, and nice breeze. Very enjoyable but the rangers had a slide show which showed a white wall that was completely covered wtith bugs. We lucked out and enjoyed a three day stay. Used the pool at the lodge everyday (GREAT). Hope you luck out as we did. I agree try John pennecamp SP on Key Largo (we found ALL FL SPs to be very nice) Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

Response:

3. How bad are the insects?

My one and only trip to the Everglades acquainted me with "no-seeums"  - a very tiny black fly that bites.  We stayed at a government campsite somewhere in the Everglades and woke up during the night with my "sunburn" really itching.  Turned on the lights and found those black bugs everywhere. They were so small that screens were no deterrent.  They could just fly right through them.  Fired up the generator, turned on the A/C and it sucked them all into the filters.  Then we could sleep through the night. Dick Lucas

Response:

I thought since they introduced the Snipe to the Everglades they have been able to control the overwhelming No-seeum population. Correct me if I’m wrong. AL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My one and only trip to the Everglades acquainted me with "no-seeums"  - a very tiny black fly that bites.  We stayed at a government campsite somewhere in the Everglades and woke up during the night with my "sunburn" really itching.  Turned on the lights and found those black bugs everywhere. They were so small that screens were no deterrent.  They could just fly right through them.  Fired up the generator, turned on the A/C and it sucked them all into the filters.  Then we could sleep through the night. Dick Lucas

Response:

Were planning on taking a trip to the Everglades National Park between March 12th through March 23rd. We’ve never been down there. We would like to see as much wildlife as possible for picture taking without becoming gator bait. We have reservations for Flamingo Park, and Long Pine Key Campground. Question are: 1. Does anyone have suggestions as to what’s the best place to visit for wildlife photography?

We camped for a week in the Everglades around Christmas time about 15 years ago. I am sure that much has changed, but I was amazed at the photo opportunities along the Anhinga Trail. It’s (or it was) a black-top and board-walk trail that leads along side of, and into, a swampy area. A tremendous variety of birds congregated there. I have pix of birds that I would have had to spend weeks in the "wild" to take. Alligators were abundant and easy to shoot. Sometimes they were only 10 to 15 feet away! By 9:00am there were dozens of photographers lined up along the trail. The primary sound was shutters being released. But, conditions may be different in March. My most memorable pix were taken early in the morning while the Anhingas were still sleeping in the "trees" and they were silhouetted against the light of the early morning sun as it cast long shadows across the swampy water. But the pix that cost me the most was one I have of a group of Roseate Spoonbills that were perched in a tree. Not having insect repellent with me in the truck (I had left if behind in the trailer), I mounted my camera on my tripod, set all of the camera controls while still in the truck. I quickly darted out of the truck and snapped two pix before I was unable to stand the attacking mosquitoes any longer. I have no idea how much blood I donated in the brief time (2 minutes) that I was outside of the truck, but it was sutstantial. 2. Are there better campgrounds then the one’s in the park?

We only stayed in the two campgrounds you mentioned. I remember Flamingo Park as being rather boring: a huge open expanse of trailer pads while Long Pine Key was relaxing with its numerous tall pines. Besides, Long Pine Key is close to the Anhinga Trail, which I visited each day for hours. You can find more information at:  http://www.nps.gov/ever/home.htm Cheers, Harry

Response:

If you’re a tent camper, you get a tent with NoSeeUm netting, but of course that cuts down the ventilation a little.  DEET isn’t effective, but light clothing is, as are sheets for sleeping. I stayed at JPennekamp SP in Dec one year and was infested with NoSeeUms thru the TT window/vent screens.  They lived about three days after I left the area. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 3. How bad are the insects? My one and only trip to the Everglades acquainted me with "no-seeums"  - a very tiny black fly that bites.  We stayed at a government campsite somewhere in the Everglades and woke up during the night with my "sunburn" really itching.  Turned on the lights and found those black bugs everywhere. They were so small that screens were no deterrent.  They could just fly right through them.  Fired up the generator, turned on the A/C and it sucked them all into the filters.  Then we could sleep through the night. Dick Lucas

Response:

Were planning on taking a trip to the Everglades National Park between March 12th through March 23rd. We’ve never been down there. We would like to see as much wildlife as possible for picture taking without becoming gator bait. We have reservations for Flamingo Park, and Long Pine Key Campground. Question are: 1. Does anyone have suggestions as to what’s the best place to visit for wildlife photography? 2. Are there better campgrounds then the one’s in the park? 3. How bad are the insects? 4. What can I expect as to access to the trails, crowds, etc? Really appreciate the input.

Response:

Question:

UNC has several campuses, the most well-known of which is in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. The Chapel Hill campus mascot is the Tar Heel, which of course was named after a well-known fly fishing alumnus who wades *really, really slowly* so as not to fall over backwards. –Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – inquiry snipped Terry

Response:

I have just checked out the list and have not seen any postings by uncle george. I thought perhaps he had finally given up on the list and got on with something worthwhile until I checked out his website and found it not to have been updated. Terry

HWMNBN claims to be hanging around the Mayo Clinic…

Response:

I have just checked out the list and have not seen any postings by uncle george. I thought perhaps he had finally given up on the list and got on with something worthwhile until I checked out his website and found it not to have been updated. Terry

Response:

Thanks, I guess years of talking through his arse ‘ole has taken its toll? Joking aside, I hope it is not serious but I know he has some half decent cane. The beveller is not worth a shit though! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just checked out the list and have not seen any postings by uncle george. I thought perhaps he had finally given up on the list and got on with something worthwhile until I checked out his website and found it not to have been updated. Terry HWMNBN claims to be hanging around the Mayo Clinic…

Response:

Question:

I was organizing my fly box and found that some of the flies had hooks which were rusty. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what should be done with these flies  -  should they be thrown out, could they be repaired, does it matter that I use rusty hooks when fishing, etc. As well, is there a way of ensuring that hooks will not rust after use. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Jon H.

Response:

Not sure I would use rusty hooks. You can prevent hooks from rusting in the future by making sure they are dried out before sticking back into fly box. Most logical approach is to dry them all on a table after a day’s fishing and then place them back into dry fly box for storage before next trip.(hopefully a short time) Regards from Montreal John Brkich

Response:

I was organizing my fly box and found that some of the flies had hooks which were rusty. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what should be done with these flies  -  should they be thrown out, Jon H.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Throw out! Just your luck someday you’ll hook the best trout of your life – some magnificent rainbow, 6/8 pounds – he’ll leap out of the water and show you his beauty and grace. Your heart will start to race and then he’ll break off.  When you reel in you’ll notice he didn’t bust your leader, or pop the fly off the end. You’ll notice the bend of the hook broken off.  OUCH!! Joel Axelrad

Response:

I was organizing my fly box and found that some of the flies had hooks which were rusty. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what should be done with these flies  -  should they be thrown out, could they be repaired, does it matter that I use rusty hooks when fishing, etc. As well, is there a way of ensuring that hooks will not rust after use. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Jon H.

  Flies are designed to deteriate quickly in wet conditions for the fished sake. At the cost of flys dump any rusted,aint woth lost fish. next time you get back from fishing open the box so moisture isn’t traped. In the south east your air conditioner will dry them, in the south west the dry air does the trick. In the rest of the country, the wifes hair dryer works well.                                                          John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         if* we’re* goin up the headwaters of wilson, *we* had better bring a couple native bearers and  a wagon.         it was all i could do to make the hike out from upper wilson when i was 35 and racin dirt bikes.  now that i’m 56 and a bad drunk, the brookies can relax.         wayno Wayne, how do you get a wagon into the headwaters of the Wilson?  Every trail I have ever used for the mainstem and tribs was a best suited for Sherpas, mountain goats and/or llamas to pack in the equipment — and still no easy task. Last time I fished the upper Wilson headwaters (late 1997) I started off near Edgemont Road/FR 192 and went down…the first time I have done that…and probaby the last — after a day of hard fishing I barely had enough energy left to climb back out.  Most of the time I go on down to Brown Mtn Beach and come up through the gorge to Edgemont/Mortimer and then take my pick of Lost Cove, Harpers/North Harpers, Rockhouse, or the main Wilson…at least it is fish upstream while I am fresh and then walk downhill/downstream back at the end of the day.

Wayno & Michael, I’m good for any stretch you guys feel like. Upper, middle, or lower stretches suit me just fine. I do agree with you Wayne…upper-upper is tough and challenging not to mention just plain dangerous in felt shoes. I did it from edgemont up to 221 about a month ago…talk about mountain climbing. It was a rewarding trip….brookies ;^) Just give me a call/e-mail if you guys want to get together and fish sometime… preferably during/after leaf season…. –Walt

Response:

I        come on, now, walter; surely you are numbered among the wealthy in watauga county!  hell, man, i have it on reliable information that you flush your own kaka!

Just recently so Wayne…. Back in December when the floods came through I managed to snag a renegade sparklin’ white 2.5 gallon American Standard on my 4 wt. It probably washed out of some floridiot’s, hmm, floron’s, hmm, Floridians vacation home. It did give me a bit of a tussle, what with the flood waters and all. But hell, I had #3 tippet on and managed to drag that thing on shore with a bit of wranglin. It was the first time my wife ever smiled when I brought my catch home, she didn’t mind cleanin’ that fish at all. Next day I installed it in the privvy and now have the extreme satisfaction of flushin my kaka directly downstream into Tennessee Ain’t ‘Merica wunnerful’ ?        later  ( when the temps drop below 90 in the piedmont, i think i’ll come up to wilson creek.

give me a holler…one of my favorite streams…. –Flushin’ Wataugan Walt

Response:

For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land. The new Delayed Harvest portion will be from Hound’s Ear down through the gorge and into Valle Crucis somewhere. See ya, Walt

Please, oh, please say it ain’t so Joe (oops, Walt)…. I just got my updated fishin’ regs from the NC WRC in the mail yesterday — they are kind of draggin for us lifetime license holders since they already have all the money they are going to get out of us customer service isn’t high on the list — and the Watauga and Boones Fork sections were still listed, respectively, Delayed Harvest and C&R, FF-only. What’s the deal on closing these fine fisheries — did somebody just get a burr up their butt? Nonetheless, if what you have shared is (has?) come to pass that is a real pisser for fishing in the Boone area and really makes me want to break down and have a good tear-fest. My uncle has a vacation home just above Taylor’s Store in Foscoe that our family uses quite frequently and my dad and I have enjoyed fishing these two sections of stream for years.  I guess we’ll just head down to Wilson’s Creek with you and Wayno — and all the other disgruntled poor folks …. These local jewels will be truly missed.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Response:

I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Please, oh, please say it ain’t so Joe (oops, Walt)…. I just got my updated fishin’ regs from the NC WRC in the mail yesterday — they are kind of draggin for us lifetime license holders since they already have all the money they are going to get out of us customer service isn’t high on the list — and the Watauga and Boones Fork sections were still listed, respectively, Delayed Harvest and C&R, FF-only. What’s the deal on closing these fine fisheries — did somebody just get a burr up their butt? Nonetheless, if what you have shared is (has?) come to pass that is a real pisser for fishing in the Boone area and really makes me want to break down and have a good tear-fest. My uncle has a vacation home just above Taylor’s Store in Foscoe that our family uses quite frequently and my dad and I have enjoyed fishing these two sections of stream for years.  I guess we’ll just head down to Wilson’s Creek with you and Wayno — and all the other disgruntled poor folks …. These local jewels will be truly missed.

Hi Michael, I need to clarify it a little…. The section that is becoming private is from the old green metal rr bridge downstream to the south end of hounds ears. The section above the green bridge up to Taylor’s (including Keller’s sippin’ pool) will change from delayed harvest to wild trout water. so…. from somewhere in valle crucis (i heard broadstone) up to the church at hounds ear will be designated delayed harvest. from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off. from the green bridge up to the headwaters will be wild trout water with no further stocking. hope that helps put you at ease a little… wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

Response:

I don’t like to be out on a stream flyfishing during deer hunting season either.  There is a river I fish during  hunting season which is on a game preserve.  Deer hunters don’t even camp in the area. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods. I’m more uneasy during "deliverance" season –Walt —    oink, oink.    wayno

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods. I’m more uneasy during "deliverance" season –Walt —

        oink, oink.         wayno

Response:

I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ in and out!  I have some good fly-fishing friends that I don’t invite to go there with me because they’re over weight and out of shape:  I can just imagine them hiking in with me, having a coronary 4 miles up stream, dying in the middle of a little pool filled with trout, and that’d screw up the remainder of a good day by having to somehow haul their dead butts out to the road.  

I know what you mean…it’s tough enough hauling my own ass outta’ there. On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods.

I’m more uneasy during "deliverance" season –Walt —

Response:

Hi Walt, I’m a little confused….I  seen the posted signs at the golf course, but, are you saying that up stream of it is going to be posted to ?

yes…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off.

Response:

I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ in and out!  I have some good fly-fishing friends that I don’t invite to go there with me because they’re over weight and out of shape:  I can just imagine them hiking in with me, having a coronary 4 miles up stream, dying in the middle of a little pool filled with trout, and that’d screw up the remainder of a good day by having to somehow haul their dead butts out to the road.   On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Michael, I need to clarify it a little…. The section that is becoming private is from the old green metal rr bridge downstream to the south end of hounds ears. The section above the green bridge up to Taylor’s (including Keller’s sippin’ pool) will change from delayed harvest to wild trout water. so…. from somewhere in valle crucis (i heard broadstone) up to the church at hounds ear will be designated delayed harvest. from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off. from the green bridge up to the headwaters will be wild trout water with no further stocking. hope that helps put you at ease a little… wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

Walt, thanks for the clarification….not the best of news, but not quite as bad as I orginally thought.  Given the wild trout status on the upper,upper section and the amount of fishing pressure it is likely to receive combined with a lack of ‘migration’ up from the now closed section — it may not be able to sustain a large fishable population. It will probably decline until it gets so poor that the fishing pressure drops and a happy (unhappy?) equilibrium is reached at a low population of both trout and trout fishermen. Still not greatly excited over the delayed harvest section along Shulls Mill down into Valle Crucis from a habitat standpoint — but better this than wild trout — I don’t think this section would sustain a wild popolation from season-to-season from both a seasonal temperature and reproduction standpoint.  Not to mention the contributions from the ‘poop’ treatment plants.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Response:

For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land.

Oh! No!, Damn, Damn, and Damn!  How’d that happen without consulting the rest of us who fish that water!?  Reckon they’ll turn the "native" part above SR#1580 into catch and release or what?  I have caught many fish from the now "exclusive" waters but not a thing which had eyes on it below the 105 Bridge toward Valle Crucis.  Next thing they’ll do is to ban spitting Red Man in the water to chum the browns, while allowing the elite to continue to drop ashes from their Macanudos to draw rainbows . Mac McCaskill

Response:

Howdy All…. Creeks, streams, and rivers are still running warm and low, but not as bad as they were a few weeks ago. The streams on the higher mountains are ok temp wise, but are low. Managed to catch a nice brownie on a headwater this past weekend and missed a few others…japanese beetle pattern. For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land.

        come on, now, walter; surely you are numbered among the wealthy in watauga county!  hell, man, i have it on reliable information that you flush your own kaka!         later  ( when the temps drop below 90 in the piedmont, i think i’ll come up to wilson creek.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

        if* we’re* goin up the headwaters of wilson, *we* had better bring a couple native bearers and  a wagon.         it was all i could do to make the hike out from upper wilson when i was 35 and racin dirt bikes.  now that i’m 56 and a bad drunk, the brookies can relax.         wayno

Wayne, how do you get a wagon into the headwaters of the Wilson?  Every trail I have ever used for the mainstem and tribs was a best suited for Sherpas, mountain goats and/or llamas to pack in the equipment — and still no easy task. Last time I fished the upper Wilson headwaters (late 1997) I started off near Edgemont Road/FR 192 and went down…the first time I have done that…and probaby the last — after a day of hard fishing I barely had enough energy left to climb back out.  Most of the time I go on down to Brown Mtn Beach and come up through the gorge to Edgemont/Mortimer and then take my pick of Lost Cove, Harpers/North Harpers, Rockhouse, or the main Wilson…at least it is fish upstream while I am fresh and then walk downhill/downstream back at the end of the day.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Response:

 (big spip) wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

        if* we’re* goin up the headwaters of wilson, *we* had better bring a couple native bearers and  a wagon.         it was all i could do to make the hike out from upper wilson when i was 35 and racin dirt bikes.  now that i’m 56 and a bad drunk, the brookies can relax.         wayno

Response:

Hi Walt, I’m a little confused….I  seen the posted signs at the golf course, but, are – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Michael, I need to clarify it a little…. The section that is becoming private is from the old green metal rr bridge downstream to the south end of hounds ears. The section above the green bridge up to Taylor’s (including Keller’s sippin’ pool) will change from delayed harvest to wild trout water. so…. from somewhere in valle crucis (i heard broadstone) up to the church at hounds ear will be designated delayed harvest. from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off. from the green bridge up to the headwaters will be wild trout water with no further stocking. hope that helps put you at ease a little… wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

Response:

Howdy All…. Creeks, streams, and rivers are still running warm and low, but not as bad as they were a few weeks ago. The streams on the higher mountains are ok temp wise, but are low. Managed to catch a nice brownie on a headwater this past weekend and missed a few others…japanese beetle pattern. For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land. The new Delayed Harvest portion will be from Hound’s Ear down through the gorge and into Valle Crucis somewhere. See ya, Walt

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have only been flyfishing for a few months, most of my trips have been in the Townsend area of the Smokies.  I have fished the Tremont (Middle Prong of Little River)  area several times with limited success.  I have the opportunity this weekend to fish Deep Creek (Bryson City, NC) and I have decided to swallow my pride and ask for advice here so I hopefully won’t get "blanked" and ruin my vacation!  For Tremont, I have used 6X tippets and patterns of caddis, adams, black gnats, beadhead phesant tail nymph. My specific questions:  What time of day should be the most successful in either of these areas (Tremont or Deep Creek)?  What patterns are most effective for Deep Creek?  Any advice on presentation to these skittish mountain trout?  Any particular areas of Deep Creek that anyone has had experience fishing before? Thanks very much, Dan Please reply to group

Dan, This time of the year you want to fish very early or very late in the day….most trout I know take long siestas when the water warms up during the day. The patterns you are using are fine…I might add a black ant and a yellow sally to your arsenal. Good luck…. –Walt

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have very good luck with elk hair caddis. I fish Tremont usually in the afternoon but not always. And don’t forget those wooly buggers! Bryce I have only been flyfishing for a few months, most of my trips have been in the Townsend area of the Smokies.  I have fished the Tremont (Middle Prong of Little River)  area several times with limited success.  I have the opportunity this weekend to fish Deep Creek (Bryson City, NC) and I have decided to swallow my pride and ask for advice here so I hopefully won’t get "blanked" and ruin my vacation!  For Tremont, I have used 6X tippets and patterns of caddis, adams, black gnats, beadhead phesant tail nymph. My specific questions:  What time of day should be the most successful in either of these areas (Tremont or Deep Creek)?  What patterns are most effective for Deep Creek?  Any advice on presentation to these skittish mountain trout?  Any particular areas of Deep Creek that anyone has had experience fishing before?

Hi! Tremont should be good early in the morning or late at night. I stay away from the lower portion of Deep Creek this time of the year, due to all  the tourists and tubers. Go above Indian creek. Also try West prong of Little River while you are over in that area. Go backcountry away from Laurel creek rd. Try a Thunderhead dry, it’s a NC pattern that’s very similar to an Adams Wulff. Hans

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have very good luck with elk hair caddis. I fish Tremont usually in the afternoon but not always. And don’t forget those wooly buggers! Bryce I have only been flyfishing for a few months, most of my trips have been in the Townsend area of the Smokies.  I have fished the Tremont (Middle Prong of Little River)  area several times with limited success.  I have the opportunity this weekend to fish Deep Creek (Bryson City, NC) and I have decided to swallow my pride and ask for advice here so I hopefully won’t get "blanked" and ruin my vacation!  For Tremont, I have used 6X tippets and patterns of caddis, adams, black gnats, beadhead phesant tail nymph. My specific questions:  What time of day should be the most successful in either of these areas (Tremont or Deep Creek)?  What patterns are most effective for Deep Creek?  Any advice on presentation to these skittish mountain trout?  Any particular areas of Deep Creek that anyone has had experience fishing before? Hi! Tremont should be good early in the morning or late at night. I stay away from the lower portion of Deep Creek this time of the year, due to all  the tourists and tubers. Go above Indian creek. Also try West prong of Little River while you are over in that area. Go backcountry away from Laurel creek rd. Try a Thunderhead dry, it’s a NC pattern that’s very similar to an Adams Wulff. Hans

I fished Deep Creek a coupla years ago and ran across a native of the area who was having great luck on a parachute Adams morning and late afternoon.  I might add that he was quite stealthy and could read water very well.

Response:

I have very good luck with elk hair caddis. I fish Tremont usually in the afternoon but not always. And don’t forget those wooly buggers! Bryce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have only been flyfishing for a few months, most of my trips have been in the Townsend area of the Smokies.  I have fished the Tremont (Middle Prong of Little River)  area several times with limited success.  I have the opportunity this weekend to fish Deep Creek (Bryson City, NC) and I have decided to swallow my pride and ask for advice here so I hopefully won’t get "blanked" and ruin my vacation!  For Tremont, I have used 6X tippets and patterns of caddis, adams, black gnats, beadhead phesant tail nymph. My specific questions:  What time of day should be the most successful in either of these areas (Tremont or Deep Creek)?  What patterns are most effective for Deep Creek?  Any advice on presentation to these skittish mountain trout?  Any particular areas of Deep Creek that anyone has had experience fishing before?

Response:

Thanks to all who replied to my original post.  Your advice will be very helpful.  I plan to spend the next couple of days on Deep Creek, so I will try to give you a report (to the group) next week.   Thanks again, Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have very good luck with elk hair caddis. I fish Tremont usually in the afternoon but not always. And don’t forget those wooly buggers! Bryce I have only been flyfishing for a few months, most of my trips have been in the Townsend area of the Smokies.  I have fished the Tremont (Middle Prong of Little River)  area several times with limited success.  I have the opportunity this weekend to fish Deep Creek (Bryson City, NC) and I have decided to swallow my pride and ask for advice here so I hopefully won’t get "blanked" and ruin my vacation!  For Tremont, I have used 6X tippets and patterns of caddis, adams, black gnats, beadhead phesant tail nymph. My specific questions:  What time of day should be the most successful in either of these areas (Tremont or Deep Creek)?  What patterns are most effective for Deep Creek?  Any advice on presentation to these skittish mountain trout?  Any particular areas of Deep Creek that anyone has had experience fishing before? Hi! Tremont should be good early in the morning or late at night. I stay away from the lower portion of Deep Creek this time of the year, due to all  the tourists and tubers. Go above Indian creek. Also try West prong of Little River while you are over in that area. Go backcountry away from Laurel creek rd. Try a Thunderhead dry, it’s a NC pattern that’s very similar to an Adams Wulff. Hans I fished Deep Creek a coupla years ago and ran across a native of the area who was having great luck on a parachute Adams morning and late afternoon.  I might add that he was quite stealthy and could read water very well.

Response:

I have only been flyfishing for a few months, most of my trips have been in the Townsend area of the Smokies.  I have fished the Tremont (Middle Prong of Little River)  area several times with limited success.  I have the opportunity this weekend to fish Deep Creek (Bryson City, NC) and I have decided to swallow my pride and ask for advice here so I hopefully won’t get "blanked" and ruin my vacation!  For Tremont, I have used 6X tippets and patterns of caddis, adams, black gnats, beadhead phesant tail nymph. My specific questions:  What time of day should be the most successful in either of these areas (Tremont or Deep Creek)?  What patterns are most effective for Deep Creek?  Any advice on presentation to these skittish mountain trout?  Any particular areas of Deep Creek that anyone has had experience fishing before? Thanks very much, Dan Please reply to group

Response:

Question:

The URL you seek is: http://www.seakayaker.com/gaddis/gadabout.htm

Response:

The URL you seek is: http://www.seakayaker.com/gaddis/gadabout.htm

Hi Dave I bookmarked the site. Thanks for taking the time to post the information. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

I’ve been away a week fishing the banks of Argentina for trout. What a blast. My friend told me someone posted info about a Gadabout Gaddis homepage, a hero to me in my childhood. Can anyone post the url here! Much Appreciated Vince

Response:

My friend told me someone posted info about a Gadabout Gaddis homepage, a hero to me in my childhood.

 Truly fun to watch, but you know…we never really got a look at the fly!….any guesses as to what he had on..?…worms…nightcrawlers.., cheese!….;-) Steve D.

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Question:

                                                                    The thing that got me was that i read Lyman Hugh’s response, when he stated that he was always disappointed to see them on the end of the line.  My question is, if the fish fight well (which they really do), and if they aren’t too ugly (which, in my book, they’re not), then why the disappointmentR?

A)…..white fish can’t jump! B)…..they fight hard for few moments, and then poop out, perhaps        because their mouths are so small, so they run out of oxygen        faster. C)…..they’re good smoked, a delicacy, in fact. Because of their        oily flesh, they take the smoke better. (But they’re hard to        keep lit). —

Response:

I’m pretty sure you are now talking about 2 different species of fish. The whitefish in Montana looks a lot like a grayling/sucker, relatively long and thin.  The Great Lakes whitefish, a delicacy, is a chunky, somewhat oily fish that is a high-priced restaurant meal, commercially netted.  I have caught them in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, rising at dusk to the white may flies that come in August.  They are usually broiled with paprika, andthe fillets are delicious. Whitefish are sought after up here in Ontario. You guys don’t know what

you’re missing. They fillet great and are also stuffed/baked. They must be good ifthey are sold commeircially here but I get mine thru the ice on Simcoe andwould rank them behind crappie and walleye in terms of tastiness They – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -will also hit minnows and jigs. — Richard Park    

Response:

Well, I ditched work for the afternoon yesterday and ventured out upon the local waters and managed to catch my first brown trout (2 of ‘em, actually — I’m a novice ffisherman).  I also caught a mountain whitefish.  I’ve caught a couple of whitefish now.  The fishing proclamation calls them gamefish here in Utah, but to my knowledge, most fishermen treat them as trash fish.

Jay, I’ve caught mountain whitefish and a couple of species of lake w’fish. They taste just fine. Despite the scales, they’re salmonids (as are grayling). The mountain species lives in substantially the same waters as trout, eats almost the same stuff, and fights quite respectably. Unfortunately, there is a perception on some waters that fish fall into one of two categories (trout & trash). Sad — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response:

inhis posting on whitefish, Jay stated The fishing proclamation calls them gamefish here in Utah, but to my knowledge, most fishermen treat them as trash fish. Does anyone know if whitefish are edible?  (Well, of *course* they’re edible, but does anybody purposely fish for them and take them home for supper?)

     Whitefish are excellent eating, and they are truly wonderful smoked, which is easy to do. There is a good article and recipe in the latest issue of Big Sky Journal. Whitefish are best eaten when caught in the colder weather months, i.e. November through April.       In addition, whitefish provide some pretty good sport to any Ffisher with an open mind. They take dry flies, love nymphs, and fight respectably. They are NOT a trash fish. The term Trash Fish usually conjures up images of fish species that take over sections of river that become either too warm or too polluted to sustain hte more desireable game fish.  Also, trash fish are often accused, either rightly or wrongly,  of having a negative impact on trout or other gamefish populations, which is certainly not the case with Whitefish.      Whitefish, require the same pristine river conditions that trout do. Chances are that a river that can no longer sustain breeding trout populations can’t sustain whitefish either. They too are an indicator species for water quality. Finally they are a member of the overall family of which trout are also members, like second or third cousins, so they cant be all bad!  I wish trout fishermen who catch them would stop throwing them on the banks to die needlessly, and either return them to the rivers or take them home and make use out of them Dale Owens

Response:

Well, Me and my girlfriend caught a couple on accident while fishing for crappie.  We took it home, and filleted them.  We froze them and then took them out of the freezer to thaw.  The thawed for a while (we went somewhere that weekend), and when we came back, they were ruined.  They filleted real nicely and had a lot of boneless meat to them, so They would not be a problem to try them and see if they are any good.  I hear they are good smoked.  We hear about them all the time in our hunting and fishing news, they are active about the same time the other fishes are spawning (they eat eggs).  People catch them on whitefish flies (what are whitefish flies), and also with a maggot on the fly.  This did not answer the question, but had to say my piece.

Response:

Whitefish are sought after up here in Ontario. You guys don’t know what you’re missing. They fillet great and are also stuffed/baked. They must be good if they are sold commeircially here but I get mine thru the ice on Simcoe and would rank them behind crappie and walleye in terms of tastiness They will also hit minnows and jigs. — Richard Park    

Response:

.. would not be a problem to try them and see if they are any good.  I hear they are good smoked. …

I really like them smoked (although a lot of bones, but I don’t mind) … Peter

Response:

Jay  Clibern writes:

"The fishing proclamation calls them gamefish here in Utah, but to my knowledge, most fishermen treat them as trash fish. Does anyone know if whitefish are edible?  (Well, of *course* they’re edible, but does anybody purposely fish for them and take them home for supper?)" Jay – As ugly as they are, they are edible – smoked is the only way that I know of.  I can’t say I am a big fan, but lots of folks like them.  If you fish around Ennis, MT on the Madison, you can take 4 or 5 (or fewer) whitefish into the Resvedts Meat market, give them a fish and a dollar for each fish, and they will give you an already smoked whitefish. A big surprise to me is the fact that the whitefish is part of the trout family.  Hard to believe.  I don’t like whitefish (could you tell?), and to me nothing is as frustration as thinking you ahve a big trout on the line only to see that slimey rubber lipped head appear.  But that’s ony one man’s opinion. Lyman Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

Response:

The round whitefish is another Great Lakes species. Locally they are called "Menominee." I catch them off Michigan piers in October to freeze up. In 1994 I fished as late as after Christmas. They bite on a single poached salmon egg on the bottom. They are timid biters and the real trick is to know when they are after the bait. My family considers them delicious. Incidently, nobody fishes for them on the Wisconsin side of the lake. Wisconsin comercial fishermen net them but I’ve never seen anyone fishing for them in the Michigan manner.

Response:

you are correct about the Lake witefishes.  But the mountain whitefish of the Rockies and the Truckee drainage in California/Nevada ( The answer to a trivia question about distribution of Western Salomids before coming of the european )  are a completely different case then the  whitefish of the Great Lakes.        The Mountain Whitefish, otherwise Known as Salmo ( as they are a salmonid )  Carpi, have been extending their range.  It seams that with all the "progress"  and the wonderful benefit that strip mining brings to the landscape and the stream.  That the Mountain Whitefish is able to withstand the rapid changes in its environment, better then the trout.

Response:

I think that all the answers to the original note follow pretty much what I have read and heard about Whitefish.  I have just one other thought.  I am a catch-and-releaser, mainly because I really don’t like trout that much.  But that’s another story.  I have caught a zillion whitefish in Montana and Wyoming and I can truly say that in most cases I didn’t know they were whitefish until I got them up close in the stream.  That says that they gave me the fight I was looking for and if you don’t keep the fish, what difference does it make if it isn’t a trout but gives you pleasure in catching it?  I’ll have to admit I’m always a little disappointed when I see it’s not a trout since I came to catch trout.  But – accept the fun of the catch and the fight and enjoy the experience. John B. in Mpls..

Response:

Re: white fish-Not to rehash other wf remarks, but … they do fight well and taste great! Have caught them in Madison fried them for breakfast and grilled them. Meat is white and chunky. I caught 16 last year on dry files in about 30 minutes. Way to tell if guy down stream has a wf, the rod tip will jiggle up and down and trout have more steady bend. I got ‘em, turned away from crowd to release them, still in water and everyone thought I was catching trout!!! Was fun.

Response:

Question:

You’re a wealth of information.  Thanks!  And glad to see you’re in higher ed too.  No wonder you’re so willing to share info.  Got any suggestions on the best dry fly patterns to use?? Roger Gary L. Bertrand

: Thanks for your help Gary.  I really appreciate it.  But a : question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel."  Do both of : those mean catch a release?  That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep : a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it : anyway. : : Are the parks closed during the week all winter?  When do they open : and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? : : Roger. : : I say "put & take" in the sense that during the regular season at the trout : parks, they PUT them (rainbows, usually 11-14") in each evening (about 2.3 : trout per expected tag) and we TAKE them out the next day (limit 5) on a $2 : daily tag.  Whistle blows at 6:30, everybody casts, 1/3 catch a fish, 2/3 : catch somebody else.  You can C&R if you like (20+ days are not uncommon), : but I don’t recommend it in crowded areas when the bubbas aren’t catching : much.  There are different conditions at the 4 parks (I am not familiar : with Roaring River Park) during the regular season – March 1 to October 30. :  Meramek Springs (St.James) Park allows anything, and I don’t recommend it : unless you enjoy casting around some guy chunking cheese on a treble hook : with a Rhino rod.  Bennett Springs (N of Lebanon) has 3 zones – flies only, : something like flies only but you aren’t restricted to a single-point hook : (lots of rooster tails), and bait.  Montauk Springs (SW of Salem, SE of : Licking) has flies only, anything goes, and a c&r area.  Winter season in : all 4 parks is from mid-November to mid February, weekends only, c&r (only : they call it NoCreel), flies only.  They stock them only once pretty : heavily at the start of winter season, so the catching is great in Nov and : drops off during the winter. :       The rivers below Meramec Springs (Meramec R) and Montauk (Current R) are : trophy trout areas (limit 3,15" minimum) and are open all year anytime. : You can fish them on a state or out-of-state license, put can’t keep trout : without a trout stamp.  The catching is not as good as it is in the parks, : but the fishing is much better.  The river below Bennett Springs (Niangua : R) is also open all year with no restrictions, but I haven’t fished it very : much.  I find the Bennett Springs area too crowded, even during winter : season, but they have some of the best shops in the state, so I make a : couple of trips (it’s about an hour-and-a-half from here) a year for : fly-tying supplies. :       The good dry fly fishing starts around daybreak on any day you’re lucky : enough to be out in the river without freezing your butt off (and maybe : even a few mornings with frost on your pumpkin), but I think the fishing is : best on weekdays in April.  There’s too many people on weekends, and by May : there’s too many people all week. : Gary : — : Gary L. Bertrand   Dept. of Chemistry : University of Missouri-Rolla

Response:

One good place to start might be Bennett Spring State Park. It’s a put-n- take fishery but at least is relatively easy to get to from KC and can provide a fairly decent "fix". Ask any store that sells flies how to get there.

Response:

I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing "fix."  I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been too long since my waiders have been wet. : One good place to start might be Bennett Spring State Park. It’s a put-n- : take fishery but at least is relatively easy to get to from KC and can : provide a fairly decent "fix". Ask any store that sells flies how to get : there.

Response:

I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing "fix."  I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been too long since my waiders have been wet.

Don’t go running down there right now, expecting to put&take.  All of the Missouri trout parks are now in Winter Season for NoCreel (C&R) fishing only, and only open Fri, Sat, Sunday.  A $5 permit lets you fish all the parks (4) all winter. — Gary L. Bertrand

Response:

Thanks for your help Gary.  I really appreciate it.  But a question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel."  Do both of those mean catch a release?  That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it anyway. Are the parks closed during the week all winter?  When do they open and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? Roger. Gary L.

: I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing : "fix."  I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been : too long since my waiders have been wet. : : Don’t go running down there right now, expecting to put&take.  All of the : Missouri trout parks are now in Winter Season for NoCreel (C&R) fishing : only, and only open Fri, Sat, Sunday.  A $5 permit lets you fish all the : parks (4) all winter. : — : Gary L. Bertrand

Response:

Thanks for your help Gary.  I really appreciate it.  But a question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel."  Do both of those mean catch a release?  That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it anyway. Are the parks closed during the week all winter?  When do they open and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? Roger.

I say "put & take" in the sense that during the regular season at the trout parks, they PUT them (rainbows, usually 11-14") in each evening (about 2.3 trout per expected tag) and we TAKE them out the next day (limit 5) on a $2 daily tag.  Whistle blows at 6:30, everybody casts, 1/3 catch a fish, 2/3 catch somebody else.  You can C&R if you like (20+ days are not uncommon), but I don’t recommend it in crowded areas when the bubbas aren’t catching much.  There are different conditions at the 4 parks (I am not familiar with Roaring River Park) during the regular season – March 1 to October 30.  Meramek Springs (St.James) Park allows anything, and I don’t recommend it unless you enjoy casting around some guy chunking cheese on a treble hook with a Rhino rod.  Bennett Springs (N of Lebanon) has 3 zones – flies only, something like flies only but you aren’t restricted to a single-point hook (lots of rooster tails), and bait.  Montauk Springs (SW of Salem, SE of Licking) has flies only, anything goes, and a c&r area.  Winter season in all 4 parks is from mid-November to mid February, weekends only, c&r (only they call it NoCreel), flies only.  They stock them only once pretty heavily at the start of winter season, so the catching is great in Nov and drops off during the winter.         The rivers below Meramec Springs (Meramec R) and Montauk (Current R) are trophy trout areas (limit 3,15" minimum) and are open all year anytime. You can fish them on a state or out-of-state license, put can’t keep trout without a trout stamp.  The catching is not as good as it is in the parks, but the fishing is much better.  The river below Bennett Springs (Niangua R) is also open all year with no restrictions, but I haven’t fished it very much.  I find the Bennett Springs area too crowded, even during winter season, but they have some of the best shops in the state, so I make a couple of trips (it’s about an hour-and-a-half from here) a year for fly-tying supplies.         The good dry fly fishing starts around daybreak on any day you’re lucky enough to be out in the river without freezing your butt off (and maybe even a few mornings with frost on your pumpkin), but I think the fishing is best on weekdays in April.  There’s too many people on weekends, and by May there’s too many people all week. Gary — Gary L. Bertrand   Dept. of Chemistry University of Missouri-Rolla

Response:

I’m looking for some good fly fishing places in Missouri.  I’m expecially interested in streams that are within easy driving distance to Kansas City.  I normally fish Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana, so this will be a new exprerience, so I’d appreciate any suggestions.  Thanks!

You will have to decide what is easy driving distance, but I’ll give you some ideas.If you are talking about in the normal in season time, Do the Merremac River and the Current river. As far as the Merremac goes, there is a bunch of big water fishing from around St. James on downstream. (Jon boat is good to float with then get out and wade.) The Current river offers some great classic trout stream fishing from Montauk springs on downstream. (Montauk is good for the kids and some practice in the flys only sections. Also a decent place to stay.) concentrate your serious fishing however on the current river downstream from the springs. Locals can give you guidance. Canoe is good for transportation. There are a few liveries around Montauk and you can park your car at the pickup and float down to it and leave the canoe. Don’t be put off by the Corn fisherman in the parks. They are gettin’ dinner and having a good time with the family. The Classic fishing, as I said is in the streams out of the parks. If you want some REAL western type fishing, go to Mountain Home Arkansas and fish the White and Norfolk rivers. Definitely hire a guide at Blue Ribbon Flies in Mountain Home. It will make your trip worthwile and safe. Best fishing is this time of year for the big ‘uns. Great fishing year around though. By the way, some of the land on the Current River (which is part of the Ozark Sceninc Riverway) was homesteaded by my ancestors, and I still have a bunch of relatives  we go see from time to time.     If you want specifics on locations and suggestions rather than these generalizations, Email me and I’ll respond. Kevin Williams-Indianapolis, IN

Response:

I’m looking for some good fly fishing places in Missouri.  I’m expecially interested in streams that are within easy driving distance to Kansas City.  I normally fish Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana, so this will be a new exprerience, so I’d appreciate any suggestions.  Thanks!

Response:

Question:

I’m going to have to buy some stocking foot chest waders soon. I fly fish mostly in rivers in the northeast (New York state, eastern Ontario, western Quebec), so the water temp isn’t a problem.  Any suggestions?  Do I need the 5mm ones, or would 3mm be heavy enough? How much should I expect to pay ($US) for waders and boots? Thanks – Tim

Response:

writes: I bought some great ones from LL Bean, around $150 bucks.  I think they are the 5mm, which will also be more tear resistant than the thinner ones, and you never know when you might go someplace colder.

Response:

writes: I bought some 5mm chest waders from Cabella’s for about $90 about 3 years ago.  I use them for all types of fishing, including rock picking abalone on the west coast near Petaluma where I live.  They have held up quite well for the stress my 240 lbs. put them thru.

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writes: I do a little steelhead fishing throughout the winter,  I have never felt that the insulated waders I wear were too warm…I suggest  the 5mm if you plan to join me this november steelheading.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

For one, the no-see-um netting doesn’t! * Todd Merriman – Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264  * Maintainer of the * * 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107-9610      * Software          * * UUCP: …!emory!slammer!toolz!todd                    * Entrepreneur’s    * Never knock on Death’s door. Ring the bell and run away.  Death really hates that.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done

One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.   The tent was 5 years old.  I sent the poles back and got new ones FREE. A K-Mart tent would have been shredded. I’ve also broken a zipper on an OLD NF daypack.  They fixed the zipper and fixed up some fraying edges for FREE. We stuck a new NF sleeping bag in the dryer when the heat switch didn’t work on the "NO HEAT" position.  It melted a 4"x6" hole in the bag.  NF repaired it and added down for $20. And like other people said they don’t leak. I use gear hard and will only buy from NF and similar companies. Mort

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I am testing my posting capabilities.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.  

I spent a week on the outer banks ( North Carolina ) with a ‘kmart’ type dome tent.  One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).  However years later while airing the tent in my backyard one corner of the fly came loose ( the elastic cord was shot by then ) and my dog ( a puppy then ) proceded to destroy the tent.   bob

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One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).

It was probably the people, not their tents, that broke down. — -Wayne Trzyna

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 Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done  serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly  cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning  when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my  $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag.    lesson one: You get what you pay for.    The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials    used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass    that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.    Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000    feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it    fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart    tent is fine.    One other reason is that The North Face will stand by it’s products    for life. Even if you muck it up yourself they will fix it for a small    charge.    One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,    trust me, I’ve been there…. Certified Gearhead:            Tim

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly. —                 -ed falk, sun microsystems         "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?   Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent.

I have a dome tent that I bought on sale from JC Penny for $35.  It’s rain fly does cover the whole tent.  I’ve seam-sealed it and it is reasonably water proof from above.  The floor isn’t — I learned the hard way about that.  I put a tarp down under the tent that was bigger than the tent and it channeled water under the tent that saoked through and into my sleeping bag. But I’ve been in nasty storms and it’s held out well.  My wife has made a winter-season fly with a vestibule for the tent, altho’ it wouldn’t hold up with a lot of snow on it. Is it as good as a North Face?  Of course not.  But it works for me, holds my wife, myself, our dog and our boots and not much else.  And it fit our budget. — Are you thinking of telephones and managers and where you got to be at noon?

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Here is the history of a K-mart tent, to illustrate its strengths and weaknesses:    It was made in Tiawan.  $50 in the early 70’s.  Made of a single layer of coated nylon (no rain fly).  A "wall tent" design; think of an old-fashioned pup tent with vertical sides underneath.  A big tent, comfortable for three. Advantages: I could afford it.  Lots of room. Only four pounds! Disadvantages: it took fourteen stakes and eight guy lines to set the damn thing up.  A pain at best, and sometimes it was impossible to find a large and soft enough site for it.  Surprisingly, neither leakage nor condensation were a problem. I used this thing on many hard-core wilderness trips over many years.  Was never so foolish as to use it above timberline or in winter, of course. Finally – -One year, way back in the Wind Rivers, a heavy windstorm came up and tore out the grommet supporting one pole.  Spent a wild couple of hours outside holding the thing up while a companion sewed it back together with fishing leader. -Next year, camped in the Snake River Plain on the way to the Cariboos.  A    _really_ _heavy_ rain came up, and the tent leaked and finally collapsed in the middle of the night.  Spent the night in the truck, and the next day in Idaho Falls drying our gear and shopping for a big tarp to use as a rain fly; the Cariboos are rain forest!  A big tarp rigged over the tent worked great on what became the rainiest trip I’ve ever taken,  but made pitching camp a big job.  And wouldn’t have worked in a heavy wind. – Two years after that, camped in a heavy rain near Stowe, Vermont. Packed the tent wet and didn’t get around to drying it for a week.  It turned out that the zippers, stake loops, etc. were cotton, and they all fell apart. I sadly trashed it and sewed up a Frostline Kodiak. _That_ is the difference between North Face and K-Mart. (BTW I now use a North Face Westwind. Damn good tent.)                         Chuck Smythe

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| Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done | serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly | cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning | when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my | $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. | | Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on | the rainfly. | | — |           -ed falk, sun microsystems |   "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change" (1) Weight, (2) Durability, (3) Service. The $40 K-Mart tent is going to be heavier, and the seams may not be sewn as solidly.  There may be more seams than optimal (i.e. the tent may be optimized for ease of production, which may not necessarily be optimal for rough conditions).  Finally, if something ever goes wrong with a North Face, Sierra Designs, Walrus, (or whatever) tent, you just bring it back to the store.  They’ll send it back to the manufacturer to fix it.  Doesn’t matter how old the tent is (as long as it doesn’t look like a bear chewed it). (Actually, this last is from hearsay.  I’ve only experienced their customer service in regards to a backpack; I’ve heard about their customer service with respect to sleeping bags, and I’m extrapolating to tents). As for the sleeping bag:  Frankly, you must be a warm sleeper.  My $30 Coleman rectangular bag is *barely* adequate as a comforter.  It has at most 1.5" of loft; it’s heavy; it won’t squoosh down into a small package; it’s not particularly windproof or water resistant (though the fill fiber is synthetic).  (Its weight is maybe 7 or 8 lbs, though that’s a guess.  My mummy bag weighs under 3 lbs, has 6" of loft, and is *highly* wind and water resistant.  Of course, I do feel like a sardine when I sleep in my mummy bag). — Hy

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  lesson one: You get what you pay for.   The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials   used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass   that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.   Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000   feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it   fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart   tent is fine.   One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,   trust me, I’ve been there….

  I agree completely. The main difference between NF (or any other quality manufacturer) is the quality of the materials and the quality of the work. Good gear lasts forever (practically) if you take care of it. Cheap gear always breaks when you least want it to. Cheap tents leak more, poles break easier, grommets pull out, seam stitching tears out, etc… When I used to be a full-time guide, I saw more trips ruined by clients bringing cheap gear and having it break down. I understand that $$$ is always a consideration but I believe that you should always buy the best gear you can afford. Even a cheap tent by a good brand is better than going to Kmart, or whereever. I’d recommend renting good gear instead of buying the cheap stuff. Even if your’re not at 12,000 ft in a blizzard, the goal is to have FUN, which is impossible if you gear fails. RIPS (Raster Image Processing Systems)           uunet!solbourne.com!rips!rob 4665 Nautilus Court South                    << KERNAL: Panic, core dumped Boulder, CO 80301                         Darkstar crashes, pouring its light (303) 530-2910                              into ashes, reason tatters, …

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

The other suggestions and answers cover the subject pretty well, so I will only add this: The cheap tent can be upgraded, providing it handles the basics as it is. Work it over with the best seam sealer you can get. Replace those funky heavy fiberglass poles with aluminum poles cut to the proper size. I would only use it for summer camping and weekend fair-weather backpacking. I did the above upgrading to an old $50 two man dome tent, and it works fine. The poles I got at REI in a bin used for tent returns. The tent is much liter now, and easy to backpack on those overnighters. For longer trips I use my North Face Tadpole NHP, which I am very pleased with. One reason to add to the other reasons to go with a more expensive (= durable) tent, is the weight. The Tadpole is 4 pounds, and packs down to a very small size, not to mention a breeze to put up, something to be thankful in a sudden rain shower or snow shower, I know. Between the 2 to 3 pounds the down bag saves me, and the three pounds the tent saves me, I have 5 pounds less to carry: pick up a 5 pound weight, and you will see it is nothing to sneeze at. Add that to the other areas you can trim weight, and it begins to add up. Unfortunately, there is a correlation between quality durable lightweight equipment and its cost… | "Bully! Bully!" – T. Roosevelt with John Muir at Glacier Point       | | "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           | |"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which | | he was created." John Muir.                                          |

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"What’s the difference between a North Face tent and a K-Mart ten..besides price?"

Well, I’ve got a Eureka Timberline (4-person), a $15 K-Mart 2 man and a Sierra Designs Flash Cliplight.  I can’t talk about North Face per se, but I can give some general comparisons. The real cheap tents have a single non-breathing roof.  Unless you have very dry weather, you get condensation, even with the "window" open. There is no covered overhang, so when it rains, you have to "close it up" and you get more condensation. The fabric is lightweight and not "ripstop".  That means if a tear starts it is more likely to continue than in a better made tent. Also, the seems are not done as well and are not as strong.  For a single overnight in a reasonable situation, its probably okay. But I wouldn’t want to have to depend on it for my life in a week long trip. OTOH, the cheap tents are often lightweight.  That’s nice for carrying.  And you don’t have a big investment so you don’t have to worry about protecting it (I ususally save more weight by not using a ground cloth, which I do use with my better tents.) IMO, the cheap tents are not too bad for simple trips in mild conditions.  But I wouldn’t depend on one for a week long trip. Ken

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly.

Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent. But, the experience with the $40 really helped me in figuring out what makes a good rain proof tent.  And I really learn the value of seam sealers.  My $40 tent I didn’t use any seam sealer.  The $150 tent I used 2 bottles.  Would the $40 tent have leaked as much if I’d sealed it?  Probably.  The rain fly  on the $40 didn’t cover the tent completely.  So, as seen from above, parts of the tent were exposed.  I made sure the rain fly on the $150 tent completely covered the tent (actual a few places stick out).   Also, the seams that joined the floor and walls at ground level on the $40 tent. On the $150 tent, the floor sort of extents up and becomes the wall for 6 inches, so the wall/floor seam is 6 inches high and under the rain fly. HOMEBREW NAKED!                                  UUCP: …!ames!watson

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