Question:

"Bugger" As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome? This group is clearly a waste of time. Bug

Not sure that’s fair. In my time here (relatively short) I have been called a spammer, an asshole, a pompous git, a wanker, and a myriad of other things, but no one ever said I wasn’t welcome. Of course, I wouldn’t give a shit either way. It seems your response is a bit premature as you certainly don’t seem to have achieved a consensus about your being welcome or not at a clave. In fact I think you should turn up, I might actually spring for an airfare for that one myself. Clark

Response:

    Not sure that’s fair. In my time here (relatively short) I have been called   a spammer, an asshole, a pompous git, a wanker, and a myriad of other   things, but no one ever said I wasn’t welcome.     Of course, I wouldn’t give a shit either way. It seems your response is a   bit premature as you certainly don’t seem to have achieved a consensus about   your being welcome or not at a clave. In fact I think you should turn up, I   might actually spring for an airfare for that one myself. I’d make a point of being there too. I’d like to fish with you. Willi

Response:

Congrats, Mark. Keep the log book up to date, keep it between the lines, Just Say No To Overdrive, and best of luck. /daytripper (Hey! Now I can say "some of my best friends are truckers"!

Thank you kindly good sir! I will heed your advice, and look for you on my trips up North. yfitons, Op  –plagarist, just this once–

Response:

As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome? This group is clearly a waste of time. Bug

You seem to have discounted my reply? I suggest that you just show up at a ‘clave and be your *real* self.  Just ask Jeff C. about it. Op

Response:

This group is clearly a waste of time.

That’s why we stick around. Mu

Response:

This group is clearly a waste of time. That’s why we stick around. Mu

"What?  Did he expect Ichor?" GG :  ) www.gink.com

Response:

"What?  Did he expect Ichor?"

You mean Marty Feldman’s character in Young Frankenstein? Mu

Response:

If I am following this thread reasonably accurately, it appears that if I have the balls to show up, I will be granted some modicum of tolerance to demonstrate that the *real* me is very different from the *virtual* me. Feel free to correct me. (Rhetorical.) Bug et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Response:

If I am following this thread reasonably accurately, it appears that if I have the balls to show up, I will be granted some modicum of tolerance to demonstrate that the *real* me is very different from the *virtual* me.

I think eees got it! I think eeezzzzz got it! Now wherez the rhain in Spain? "In the p____!" (Fill in) "In the p____!" (Fill in) (Just don’t volunteer to run the raffle) Dave

Response:

(Just don’t volunteer to run the raffle)

And everyone count your fingers after shaking hands with him.

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Not since I’ve been a part of ROFF! Just show-up and fish with lots-o-good folk. Op

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun.

They are. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Yes.   Die. Wolfgang

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. They are. Are they by invitation only? Bug Yes. Die. Wolfgang

Now, now Wolfie.  I find it hard to believe that your last statement is heart-felt? Op  –say it ain’t so, Please.–

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Just do me one small favor, please, Collier. Stick to the claves out East.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They sound like they could be a lot of fun. They are. Are they by invitation only? Bug Yes. Die. Wolfgang Now, now Wolfie.  I find it hard to believe that your last statement is heart-felt? Op  –say it ain’t so, Please.–

Sorry, Op, it’s my name.  I take it very seriously. Wolfgang and i mean it.

Response:

Sorry, Op, it’s my name.  I take it very seriously. Wolfgang and i mean it.

My mistake!  I was talkin’ about the other last statement, as you know I would never make light of you name.  Well not since the first and last time I did when first I found ROFF.  You remember, I’m sure. Op  –nonetheless, sure wish I could have made it to the anti-clave this year– P.S.  I begin truckin’ on the 19th of Nov., if all goes well with drug test, health exam (not mental, thankfully), and road test.  So I may be in your neck of the woods in the near future, as Cargo Transporters go everywhere in the US and Canada…..OK, they don’t do Hawaii or Alaska.

Response:

Sorry, Op, it’s my name.  I take it very seriously. Wolfgang and i mean it. My mistake!  I was talkin’ about the other last statement,

Oh, that.  Now, why in the world would anyone care what someone says to a tetherball? as you know I would never make light of you name.  

Well, as I said, I take it seriously.  That said though, I can’t imagine why anyone else should. Well not since the first and last time I did when first I found ROFF.  You remember, I’m sure.

Ah, those were some days, ainna?    :) Op  –nonetheless, sure wish I could have made it to the anti-clave this year–

P.S.  I begin truckin’ on the 19th of Nov., if all goes well with drug test, health exam (not mental, thankfully), and road test.  So I may be in your neck of the woods in the near future, as Cargo Transporters go everywhere in the US and Canada…..OK, they don’t do Hawaii or Alaska.

The next month or so will still allow swinging a fly line in much of Wisconsin (although opportunities to chase trout are severely limited) but after that it’s pretty much hard water fishing till some time in late March or April.  You get up this way, give us a holler.  We’ll see if we can roust Joel, George, and maybe even Kim out of hibernation for a bit…….they’re apt to be a bit surly when awakened at this late season but they can usually be calmed down with a handful of berries or a marmot or something. Wolfgang

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. They are. Are they by invitation only? Bug Yes.   Die.

<splork!

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug

Let’s just say you can be "not invited".

Response:

They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug Just do me one small favor, please, Collier. Stick to the claves out East.

I dunno. He could be big on spontaneity. <g — TL, Tim

Response:

P.S.  I begin truckin’ on the 19th of Nov., if all goes well with drug test, health exam (not mental, thankfully), and road test.  So I may be in your neck of the woods in the near future, as Cargo Transporters go everywhere in the US and Canada…..OK, they don’t do Hawaii or Alaska.

Congrats, Mark. Keep the log book up to date, keep it between the lines, Just Say No To Overdrive, and best of luck. /daytripper (Hey! Now I can say "some of my best friends are truckers"!

Response:

As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome? This group is clearly a waste of time. Bug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug Let’s just say you can be "not invited".

Response:

As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome?

    in your case, that condition should have been immediately clear.  This group is clearly a waste of time.

    no doubt. Bug

awh

Response:

We tell virtually all newcomers right from the start that they *are* welcome.  hint hint But what the hell – just show up and prove us all wrong.

As I suspected. Why don’t you guys just tell newcomers in the beginning that they are not welcome? This group is clearly a waste of time. Bug

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They sound like they could be a lot of fun. Are they by invitation only? Bug Let’s just say you can be "not invited".

Response:

Question:

My friends on FF at are trying to describe a clave  to folks in NZ. Thought you might enjoy although I recognize no Roffians there V Lets be frank Richard American clave fishing is a misnomer.

        i love the smell of envy in the morning…         wayno, the first clavemeister

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends on FF at are trying to describe a clave  to folks in NZ. Thought you might enjoy although I recognize no Roffians there V Lets be frank Richard American clave fishing is a misnomer.  I have yet to see a decent fish on post Clave website photo opportunity postings, By decent I mean anything over 3 inches. Lots of shots of folk enjoying themselves eating & drinking & telling lies. In various stages of unshaven dishevelment. & thats just the mud wrestlers (I withdraw yr honour) But not fish in hand. Nor are there multitudinous tales of C&R. Which leads me to believe that any fishing is an accidental byproduct of the weekend.  - There appear to be 2 styles of American Clave fishing when a misguided attempt is made to put fly on or in water  - The raft hunt.  - The gang fish. The Raft Hunt The former arises because, for some unknown reason, many claves are scheduled to coincide with college holidays. The end result is that the occasional aberrant Clavee that actually crawls to the water , rod in hand, post stomach pump, post detox, post the shock of the early morning visit by the chicken skin toupee’d or the stuffed pig  - usually casts to a river full of tubing & rafting pissed as a rat students. No fish about mind you, but lots of movement on the river. Once it is known that the hills & waters are alive with rafters & tubers & other alcoholics, the scene then degenerates into the pissed as a rat clavees pulling their deckchairs or Motahomes up on the river bank &  cans in hands, (22 in the cooler  underneath the seat), they spend many happy hours yelling encouragement to the passing tubers & rafters. Many of whom are minimally clad. Particularly the female ones. Which brings out the best in male Clavees. Hence their  boisterous but friendly exhortations to – "Get yr gear off!!" Such is the elegance  and sophistication of American clave fishing. Gang fishing The other, more pernicious style, is known as the gang fish. Of this I have seen evidence on the Internet. Photos of a Canadian angler midstream wielding a blotched & overused purple rod with fish drawings on the butt, attempting delicate dry fly placement whilst 15 Clavees in various stages of intoxication or food poisoning stand on the bank & offer advice. Loudly. Some also chunder for him.  & as he stands midstream he is no doubt hoping that if they must that at least they  divest themselves downstream of his 3 wt elegant efforts as opposed to creating an upstream tide of Ball Buster, which he knows, just knows in his heart, will dissolve his waders should he be unfortunate enough to be caught in the flow. "There it is ", they  scream, jumping up and down on the bank in excitement pointing to a small twig stuck on the bottom of the waters. "No, no, cast closer into the tree!!"  they exhort & so it goes on. Now is this fair  to the fish? Is it fair to the angler? What chance does he have with 15 experts with a bell curve distribution of states of intoxication offering advice. In very loud voices. That make the ground tremble & the trees sway. But they are wearing the T shirt. So its ok. Usually it prevails until one of the happily pissed falls into the water & discovers that the fish have long since departed. At which juncture the tribe repairs to the campsite to consume more Ball Buster & Bourbon by way of commiseration with fishless purple rod. Now, I have missed out Socialising as a stand alone topic, but I trust you will agree with me that an American Clave is merely an excuse for participants to socialise to the max. & I think this is a good thing. It is de facto fish conservation. & there is a lot of this because Claves have a habit of attracting rain. So attendees get to huddle together for comfort & what can one do in those circumstances but eat, drink & tell lies.  Outrageous untruths. Veritable supercharged bull dust. All about fishing None of which is actually undertaken. In fact most, if not all Clavees would not even notice if they left their rods at home.<g GS NZ We seem to be missing the women who bring their own batteries in case sex is needed. Indfian Joe

OMG — this is hilarious!!  Thanks — you made my day!! Sandy

Response:

I’ve been away from the vise for a while, & I must be getting rusty.   Tied two flies today & snipped off my tying thread three times.   I hate when that happens.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

I’ve been away from the vise for a while, & I must be getting rusty.   Tied two flies today & snipped off my tying thread three times.   I hate when that happens.  :-) Joe F.

Greetings:   Well Joe, you’re not alone.  Every Fall, around November or so when I start spending more time indoors, it takes me a while to get back "into it."  I’m a total fumblefingers.  Just out of habit, I usually tie flys by the dozen.  So for example if I tie a dozen #14 Adams, I end up throwing two or three away in disgust.  After a few sessions at the bench, I seem to get over it (thankfully!) I snip off the tying thread, I snip off the wings, I poke myself when I reach up to grab the beer and the scissors are still in my hand – (I tell ya’ it’s a good thing I have to wear glasses when tying now days!)  :-/   What helps me a little is to tie the larger and simpler patterns I need first, then move on the small and more complex ones as I get "warmed up" again.  Lastly, when I’ve got everything I _think_ I need tied up for the coming season, I experiment with new patterns.   Of course, it’s not _just_ the tying skills that need refreshing, rather it’s the combination of related, simultaneous activities.  In my case, those include one or more of the following: 1)    Drinking beer 2)    Watching sporting events with one eye. 3)    Petting the lap cat (who remains blissfully unaware of how dangerous I can       be with a small pair of small sharp scissors on my fingers!)   Bottom Line:  Multi-tasking can be both messy and dangerous.  Happy tying season.   Cheers,  -Mark

Response:

I’ve been away from the vise for a while, & I must be getting rusty.   Tied two flies today & snipped off my tying thread three times.   I hate when that happens.  :-)

Use a sharp single-edge razor instead of scissors and that’ll happen a lot less…

Response:

My friends on FF at are trying to describe a clave  to folks in NZ. Thought you might enjoy although I recognize no Roffians there V Lets be frank Richard American clave fishing is a misnomer.  I have yet to see a decent fish on post Clave website photo opportunity postings, By decent I mean anything over 3 inches. Lots of shots of folk enjoying themselves eating & drinking & telling lies. In various stages of unshaven dishevelment. & thats just the mud wrestlers (I withdraw yr honour) But not fish in hand. Nor are there multitudinous tales of C&R. Which leads me to believe that any fishing is an accidental byproduct of the weekend.  - There appear to be 2 styles of American Clave fishing when a misguided attempt is made to put fly on or in water  - The raft hunt.  - The gang fish. The Raft Hunt The former arises because, for some unknown reason, many claves are scheduled to coincide with college holidays. The end result is that the occasional aberrant Clavee that actually crawls to the water , rod in hand, post stomach pump, post detox, post the shock of the early morning visit by the chicken skin toupee’d or the stuffed pig  - usually casts to a river full of tubing & rafting pissed as a rat students. No fish about mind you, but lots of movement on the river. Once it is known that the hills & waters are alive with rafters & tubers & other alcoholics, the scene then degenerates into the pissed as a rat clavees pulling their deckchairs or Motahomes up on the river bank &  cans in hands, (22 in the cooler  underneath the seat), they spend many happy hours yelling encouragement to the passing tubers & rafters. Many of whom are minimally clad. Particularly the female ones. Which brings out the best in male Clavees. Hence their  boisterous but friendly exhortations to – "Get yr gear off!!" Such is the elegance  and sophistication of American clave fishing. Gang fishing The other, more pernicious style, is known as the gang fish. Of this I have seen evidence on the Internet. Photos of a Canadian angler midstream wielding a blotched & overused  purple rod with fish drawings on the butt, attempting delicate dry fly placement whilst 15 Clavees in various stages of intoxication or food poisoning stand on the bank & offer advice. Loudly. Some also chunder for him.  & as he stands midstream he is no doubt hoping that if they must that at least they  divest themselves downstream of his 3 wt elegant efforts as opposed to creating an upstream tide of Ball Buster, which he knows, just knows in his heart, will dissolve his waders should he be unfortunate enough to be caught in the flow. "There it is ", they  scream, jumping up and down on the bank in excitement pointing to a small twig stuck on the bottom of the waters. "No, no, cast closer into the tree!!"  they exhort & so it goes on. Now is this fair  to the fish? Is it fair to the angler? What chance does he have with 15 experts with a bell curve distribution of states of intoxication offering advice. In very loud voices. That make the ground tremble & the trees sway. But they are wearing the T shirt. So its ok. Usually it prevails until one of the happily pissed falls into the water & discovers that the fish have long since departed. At which juncture the tribe repairs to the campsite to consume more Ball Buster & Bourbon by way of commiseration with fishless purple rod. Now, I have missed out Socialising as a stand alone topic, but I trust you will agree with me that an American Clave is merely an excuse for participants to socialise to the max. & I think this is a good thing. It is de facto fish conservation. & there is a lot of this because Claves have a habit of attracting rain. So attendees get to huddle together for comfort & what can one do in those circumstances but eat, drink & tell lies.  Outrageous untruths. Veritable supercharged bull dust. All about fishing None of which is actually undertaken. In fact most, if not all Clavees would not even notice if they left their rods at home.<g GS NZ We seem to be missing the women who bring their own batteries in case sex is needed. Indfian Joe

Response:

Question:

Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt…..

You may be right.  I also use SA xps, but a DT5 in gray.  A stealthier approach for me. The rod has both grace and power.  I just love fishing it. Regards, jacknoir

Response:

I have a 590SP.  I use a 6wt. Orvis Wonderline and it works great! Good luck, Forrest — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

Response:

I am interested in your use of a DT on your SP590.  Sounds like the two lines (the DT5 and tyhe WF7) cover a pretty wide range of situations with the same rod.  Like fishing a bigassed river one day, and a little meadow crawler the next., with the same rod. Is that what you are after? Sage touts the "reserve power" bit on the SPs. Does the overlining kick it in? Ill have to try it. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt….. You may be right.  I also use SA xps, but a DT5 in gray.  A stealthier approach for me. The rod has both grace and power.  I just love fishing it. Regards, jacknoir

Response:

Most good quality rods will handle several line sizes.  The size recommended by the maker is usually that size that most people would find works well under most conditions…and allows the rod to properly load at normal fishing distances…and for the designated action of the rod to come into play.  Most flyfishers have their own casting styles and fishing situations that are unique to them….and, as a consequence, tend to prefer certain actions on the rods with which they fish.  So…it’s not unusual to find flyfishers that will find a different weight line working better for them on a selected rod when that line weight is different than the recommended weight.  And, it is not unusual to find that fisherman disagree on the best line weight for a particular rod.  Also factoring in the type of fishing and the distance of your normal casts, affects what line is "best" for a particular rod.  Many flyfishers, myself included, tend to use several line weights on a rod….depending on the fishing situation at hand.  However, on the Sage LL rods, I pretty much stick to the manufacturers suggested weights as they work best for me…and I don’t like a much slower rod than the LL Sage…so I don’t overline it.  Now…the SPplus Sage is another matter…and I have overlined it by one and even two sizes at times….ditto on the RPLplus.  I recall a disagreement that I once had with the Harry Wilson (from Scott Rods a number of years ago) regarding a ten weight Scott that I bought.  I could put a thirteen weight on that rod and still feel that it was underlined.  Harry and I argued about that rod for a long time. I ended up returning it.  In retrospect, my casting style and the action that I wanted to bring out in the rod were vastly different than Harry’s. So…we were both right in the sense that we knew what worked best for us as individuals. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt….. You may be right.  I also use SA xps, but a DT5 in gray.  A stealthier approach for me. The rod has both grace and power.  I just love fishing it. Regards, jacknoir

Response:

Also, while learning to fly cast or for those who never learn, many will overline their rods a few sizes. There are some rods that are so stiff and powerful that they must be overlined for everyone.

If this is intended to say that experienced casters don’t like to go up a line weight, then I’ll disagree. I’ve read that Joan Wulff says she routinely goes up a line weight. I fish a Winston IM6 4 weight with 6 weight line in situations where I have to make longer roll casts or cope with some wind. It handles the heavier line with aplomb. Yes, aplomb. I’ve never been in a situation where it couldn’t handle the amount of line I was trying to cast (which is probably a max of 60 feet). Rick

Response:

Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt…..

Response:

Anyone able to help out here with there experiences,I currently use SA xps WF7 on this rod and find it not a problem at all . Any body else experienced this. I feel the rod acts more like 7wt not 5 wt…..

Hi All, I have seen this situation for many years. We all have a different casting strokes or styles. Some of us are high speed, tip casters and some, like this gentleman, have a slow stroke where he loads the rod way down into the butt. This is nothing new. I use a weight forward 5 floating line on that rod and it works fine for me. some of my fishing partners would use a #6 line. Not too many would use a #7 line.  I think a #7 line would start to over load that rod at 50+ feet. Also, while learning to fly cast or for those who never learn, many will overline their rods a few sizes. There are some rods that are so stiff and powerful that they must be overlined for everyone. PS: I might be wrong, but I think that the largest XPS is a #6????? Maybe it is a new GPX or maybe I am wrong?

Response:

Question:

I will be in Belize next month (Ambergris Caye) and will be fishing for bones, tarpon, and whatever else I can catch. I have never done this type of fishing. I need suggestions on flies (and colors), line, leaders, etc. I will have an 8 and 10 weight rod with me. If you have some helpful info, please let me know. Thanks. LT

Response:

I will be in Belize next month (Ambergris Caye) and will be fishing for bones, tarpon, and whatever else I can catch. I have never done this type of fishing. I need suggestions on flies (and colors), line, leaders, etc. I will have an 8 and 10 weight rod with me. If you have some helpful info, please let me know. Thanks. LT

Hi Lt, You are going to the right place. There are a lot of good flats guides in the town of San Pedro on Ambergris Cay. You have the right size rods too. They do some wading for bones there and some from boats. I would have a weight forward floating salt water #8 line for the bones. The bones can be spooky so you might need a 15′ total leader to 0x. Find the stiffest leaders you can get and matching tippet. On turtle grass flats I use eye-less snapping shrimp patterns in tan. brown, olive and pink. On the sand flats I use Charlie type pattern with bead chain eyes in root beer, gold, pearl and pink. Take some small tan and olive crabs for bones too. You can catch permit on the same stuff. For tarpon I would get the SA/Mastery WF10F Tarpon Floating line and the SA/Mastery WF10S Tarpon slow sinking braided mono core line. This is the destination where those two lines can be used and I can’t say which one would really always be the best choice. I would go for the sinker for all around and the floater for the most fun. Put a 4′ butt section of  30# clear Mason on with an Albright knot so it won’t slip off that braided mono core. Put a perfection loop on the end. After this it can be done a lot of ways, but I would have some 20# Mason for tippet (why fool around on you first fish) and some 60# for shook tippet and let you guide rig it for you. I would get some sparse 3/0 tarpon flies in Cockroach, Red/Black, Grizzly/Orange, Yellow/Orange, Red/White and Purple with a little flash. Get a ‘cuda’ fly or two. You might find some bones somewhere around the island, but the best bet is a all a report when you return. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

I can’t fault advice below, except I personally have had poor luck using crab patterns for bones (never fished for permit). Charlies work great (best colors for me have been chartreuse or tan). Clouser minnows have been hot in BZ (at least in Placencia where I go) past couple of years. Sizes 2 and 4 are good; sparsely tied (I had one that was sparse to begin with, and got better after a lizardfish chewed off 2/3 of the bucktail). Chartreuse is best (with a white belly of course), and tan, brown and olive worked for me too. I’m told Clousers are good for permit too (larger, sizes 1 or 2) but as I say I haven’t tried. I’ve used the Bonefish Special for real shallow water or over grass with success, but I want to try the snapping shrimp pattern that Bill mentioned. Got to get tying! Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be in Belize next month (Ambergris Caye) and will be fishing for bones, tarpon, and whatever else I can catch. I have never done this type of fishing. I need suggestions on flies (and colors), line, leaders, etc. I will have an 8 and 10 weight rod with me. If you have some helpful info, please let me know. Thanks. LT Hi Lt, You are going to the right place. There are a lot of good flats guides in the town of San Pedro on Ambergris Cay. You have the right size rods too. They do some wading for bones there and some from boats. I would have a weight forward floating salt water #8 line for the bones. The bones can be spooky so you might need a 15′ total leader to 0x. Find the stiffest leaders you can get and matching tippet. On turtle grass flats I use eye-less snapping shrimp patterns in tan. brown, olive and pink. On the sand flats I use Charlie type pattern with bead chain eyes in root beer, gold, pearl and pink. Take some small tan and olive crabs for bones too. You can catch permit on the same stuff. For tarpon I would get the SA/Mastery WF10F Tarpon Floating line and the SA/Mastery WF10S Tarpon slow sinking braided mono core line. This is the destination where those two lines can be used and I can’t say which one would really always be the best choice. I would go for the sinker for all around and the floater for the most fun. Put a 4′ butt section of  30# clear Mason on with an Albright knot so it won’t slip off that braided mono core. Put a perfection loop on the end. After this it can be done a lot of ways, but I would have some 20# Mason for tippet (why fool around on you first fish) and some 60# for shook tippet and let you guide rig it for you. I would get some sparse 3/0 tarpon flies in Cockroach, Red/Black, Grizzly/Orange, Yellow/Orange, Red/White and Purple with a little flash. Get a ‘cuda’ fly or two. You might find some bones somewhere around the island, but the best bet is a all a report when you return. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

I can’t fault advice below, except I personally have had poor luck using crab patterns for bones (never fished for permit).

Hi Eric, We use real small tan Raghead crabs that where develope by Jan Isley in Ascencion Bay for permit. They are about the size of a dime. We catch small permit (3 to 6#) on them too. We use them in larger sizesfor larger permit and in olive/green too.  I also have been fishing Placencia and really love the area. If you get a chance tell me more about your adventures in that area. Who are you fishing with?  I have some chartreuse snapping shrimp called ‘Yucatan Specials’, but have not tried them. Thanks for you info. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used? First task is to remove all fat or flesh from the skin.  When this is done, some tyers do not bother with any preservative, since they are not going to use the skin for any purpose, i.e. it does not need to stay flexible.

No, but it does need to be bug resistant.  I find that soaking bird or mammal skins in a saturated borax solution* and then drying them in a tray full of borax bug-proofs them without the use of anything smelly or toxic. *Fill a pail with hot water.  Add borax (plain unscented washing soda) and stir.  Keep adding borax until no more will dissolve.  Cool to room temperature. Soak your skins. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers?

snip….. snip…. No, but it does need to be bug resistant.  I find that soaking bird or mammal skins in a saturated borax solution* and then drying them in a tray full of borax bug-proofs them without the use of anything smelly or toxic. *Fill a pail with hot water.  Add borax (plain unscented washing soda) and stir.  Keep adding borax until no more will dissolve.  Cool to room temperature. Soak your skins.

Here’s another method that has worked well for me. Scrape all fat off the underside of the skin. Tack the skin to a board or piece of cardboard with the feathers down. Make sure the feathers are dry and arranged the way you want them before you do this. Sprinkle dry borax on the scraped skin surface covering all exposed skin. Be generous with the Borax. It will absorb water out of the skin. I kind of pile it on. Let it sit out for a few days to a few weeks. I don’t know the minimum time because I often set these out in the garage or basement and forget them for a while. A low humidity area would be best. When the skin is crinkly dry, untack it and brush off the borax and you are done. For a final treatment, put it in a plastic baggy and run it through several freeze-thaw cycles in order to kill any remaining resident insects. Cheers. Jon

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I’ve used footpowder to "cure" moose hide and it really works. Don’t see why it wouldn’t do the same thing on capes :O)  It’s also inexpesive and goes a long ways. Keith P

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used? Also,  I would like to dye some of the capes.  Have heard that you should dye at the same time the felts are being cured? Any information on this procedure would be very appreciated. Trout Bum.

I just use plain old course salt.  Just spread the salt generously over the hyde and lay out in the sun, feather side down of course.  The saly draws out the moisture and the sun evaporates it.  After the skin is dry I shake off the excess salt then dust with talcum powder.  I still have pelts from pheasant season of two years ago, works great for me.                                                         Spy in Hawaii

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used?

Hi BB, Years ago, I had some young customers that would go to the local live stock auction and bid on old roosters. They said they paid about $2 to $3 for live birds. They killed and skinned them. They tacked the skins feather side down, skin side up on a wood surface. They used salt to dry up and cure the skins. After they are real dry and stiff, I would put them into an airtight container or a big zip lock bag. As far as dying the feathers goes, you can use Rite or Vinyards(sp) dye. It is an art and not many do it well. The skin/feathers have to be clean, de-greased and moistened to except the dye. You put the dye into water and control the temperature so as to not ‘burn’ or ‘cook’ the feathers. I think we added something like rubbing alcohol to set the dye? You need very white hackle if you are looking for bright colors. Black is very hard to get. It can turn out purple. I hear about ‘cold’ dying processes. Good luck and have fun. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Hi, The method I used to preserve some pheasant skins was to scrape off as much fat as possible with a *non-serated edge* butter knife, stretch out and tack the skin feather side down, rub out and let dry with rock salt (usually 2 or 3 applications) and finally to cover the remaining almost-clean skin with borax. Then I let it dry in the garage for about 2 weeks.   Then I put them in a zip-lock bag.  Still have some of one skin left after ~12 years.

**SNIP** As far as dying the feathers goes, you can use Rite or Vinyards(sp) dye. It is an art and not many do it well. The skin/feathers have to be clean, de-greased and moistened to except the dye. You put the dye into water and control the temperature so as to not ‘burn’ or ‘cook’ the feathers. I think we added something like rubbing alcohol to set the dye? You need very white hackle if you are looking for bright colors. Black is very hard to get. It can turn out purple. I hear about ‘cold’ dying processes. Good luck and have fun.

To get a decent black with RIT dye you also have to add some brown into the mix.  Added a bit of Vinegar to set the dye (insturctions on the package). Like Bill said, you have to be careful with the temperatures (use a candy thermometer) or you can ruin some great feathers.   This is a very messy process but is worth the effort if you can’t get what you need locally and you can dye a bunch of stuff at once.  A.K. Best has a book out on dying materials that is quite good if your interested.                                   Good Fishing,                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used? Also,  I would like to dye some of the capes.  Have heard that you should dye at the same time the felts are being cured?   Any information on this procedure would be very appreciated. Trout Bum.

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used?

First task is to remove all fat or flesh from the skin.  When this is done, some tyers do not bother with any preservative, since they are not going to use the skin for any purpose, i.e. it does not need to stay flexible. Also,  I would like to dye some of the capes.  Have heard that you should dye at the same time the felts are being cured?  

See Eric Leiser’s Fly Tying Materials (1973) or other books.  The main points seem to be preliminary rinse with a mordant, to maximize dye’s effect, and then control of temperature to avoid cooking (the way egg white is transformed by high temperature.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Is it okay to post items for sale (a rod) in this newsgroup ? Thanks in advance

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 Yup…as long as it’s a personal rod that you are selling.. — TimW Halfordian Golfer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Is it okay to post items for sale (a rod) in this newsgroup ? Thanks in advance

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phillipson bamboo fly rods for sale at $5,000 each.  Why?  Because these are the last two bamboo fly rods ever built by Bill Phillipson for the rest of his life and he has passed on to the special waters reserved for excellent casters such as he.  They were made PERSONALLY for me and it is time for them to be passed on to a serious collector of historical items in this world-wide forum called ‘Fly Fishing’s History’.  The rods are autographed by Bill as such.  No bull, pure fact, I own the last two rods he built with his own hands before he died.  A point in history. I’m 63 and not getting any younger.  If no one want them, I am donating them to the Fly Fishing Museum in West Yellowstone upon my death. Mr. G.  Yup…as long as it’s a personal rod that you are selling.. — TimW Halfordian Golfer Is it okay to post items for sale (a rod) in this newsgroup ? Thanks in advance

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Question:

Question:

   Can anyone reccommend where to go in Rockland COunty NY?  I recently went up to Roscoe for the Memorial Day weekend and would like to not go so far from home (2-2.5 hrs).  I live in northern NJ, but do not have a license here, only NY– resulting from my first trip this year. Thanks for any advise. Brian Charles — Brian Charles

You didn’t mention a preference of venue or species to target, but have you tried Rockland Lake? It has a variety of species to target including Largemouth and Smallmouth bass, crappie, perch and an overabundance of bluegill. There may even be a pickerel or two around. If you wade, be very careful. I got stuck in mud up to my chest obver there near some lilly pads. Fortunately, another angler was able to pull me out. As for rivers/streams, you might try the Hudson for stripers and bluefish. You’ll need saltwater flyfishing gear for this venture though. I hear the Ramapo is making a comeback if trout are your target, but I don’t have any personal esperience there. You may want to call some local flyshops and get their opinion. One to try is the Matterhorn Country Sport Shop in Spring Valley, NY. Their phone number is 914.354.5986. Good Luck,     Jose

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   Can anyone reccommend where to go in Rockland COunty NY?  I recently went up to Roscoe for the Memorial Day weekend and would like to not go so far from home (2-2.5 hrs).  I live in northern NJ, but do not have a license here, only NY– resulting from my first trip this year. Thanks for any advise. Brian Charles — Brian Charles

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Question:

Question: I live in Oregon and we’ve had a warm and wet winter.  We are just recovering from a major flood.  What effect will this have on insect populations in the spring and summer?

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Yo Dan, The effect of the flood will be the determining factor on the bug population, not the warm water conditons. Certainly if the flood was sustained and had heavy enough flows to scour the stream bed then you can expect some damage to the invertibrate population.   The warmer than seasonal winter flows can accelerate the hatches, that is make them come early.  Normally by mid season the hatches will get back on track unless you have a hot spring. Yippi tie one on! AuSable1

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Question: I live in Oregon and we’ve had a warm and wet winter.  We are just recovering from a major flood.  What effect will this have on insect populations in the spring and summer?

Good question.  Most nymphs or larva grow very little during the winter months but the unseasonably warm water may change this.  Could see many of your normal hatches happening earlier than usual.  Then again the flooding may well have destroyed a lot of the habitat (rooted vegetation especially) with its scouring effects and you may have greatly reduced hatches and insect activity.   Then again placing all the organic materials in the rivers may actually improve habitat over the long run. This is a little like chaos theories, there are so many variables it’s real hard to predict. Probably just have to wait and see what happens. Any one else care to guess?                                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: I live in Oregon and we’ve had a warm and wet winter.  We are just recovering from a major flood.  What effect will this have on insect populations in the spring and summer? Good question.  Most nymphs or larva grow very little during the winter months but the unseasonably warm water may change this.  Could see many of your normal hatches happening earlier than usual.  Then again the flooding may well have destroyed a lot of the habitat (rooted vegetation especially) with its scouring effects and you may have greatly reduced hatches and insect activity.   Then again placing all the organic materials in the rivers may actually improve habitat over the long run. This is a little like chaos theories, there are so many variables it’s real hard to predict. Probably just have to wait and see what happens. Any one else care to guess?                                                Dan My guess:  It may make the hatches come off early.  Therefore,

you should get onstream earlier in the year.  It also may make the hatches sparse.  Therefore, you should spend as much time as possible onstream.  It may make the hatches come off late, since we are just guessing here, so you should fish later into the year than you normally do.  It may stunt the hatches.  There- fore you should tie smaller flies this year.  It may cause phenomenal growth, since the flood reduced the population relative to the habitat.  So, you should tie larger flies.  It could reduce populations, causing underfed fish to virtually leap on any fly presented to them.  Therefore, you should not bother to take a variety of flies onstream.  It could displace the fish so they are unavailable to jump on your fly.  Therefore, stay home. It could go just about any way.  I plan to review the year at the end and construct a difinitive answer to this question when I have some factual^b^b^b^b^b^b^b anecdotal data to draw on. Charley

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Question:

1st week of June can be tough. Around Ennis you can hit the Madison, (but it will, probably be roiled from run-off) the Ruby and the Big Hole (it’s a haul from  Ennis but generally always fishable). Big Hole is best fished while floating. Or, you can go into the park and fish the Firehole and the Gibbons. Prince nymphs in the morning and Mothers Day Caddis in the afternoon. Best fishing is from 3pm to dark. Tight Lines! pdp

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A friend and I are planning a week of flyfishing in Montana June 3 – June 10.   I know it’s not the best time but you takes what you can get.  We do not have any specific itinerary but were planning to spend some time around Ennis, and some around two rivers. Anybody have any specific recommendations for that time?  Any specific flies?   I have heard that San Juan worms are a must if the water is up. Anyway, I would appreciate any suggestions. Bill Feinberg

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