Question:

Woman sentenced in racist e-mail hoax

But have they been fishin’? Can they send us a TR? Chris

Response:

Dear Julia.. You are one sick puppy! Woman sentenced in racist e-mail hoax

trash snipped — On my retirement adventure from the rolling hills of the Southern Tier in New York State…..    Traveling in my 1999 Dodge 2500 6-spd diesel, 1999 Sunnybrook 27RKFS 5th-wheel

Response:

Blacks are the foremost perpetrators of "hate crimes". 30,000 White women are raped by black males every year. Over 5,000 Whites are assaulted. 1,800 Whites are murdered by blacks every year in America. Read "The Color of Crime" http://www.amren.com/colrcrim.html                           ||__||           |    Please do   |                          /   O O      |        NOT       |                         /                |     feed the    |                        /                |   the niggers  |                      /    |____        ||                     /     | | | |____/      ||                    /       |_|_|/   |    __ ||                   /  /              |____| ||                  /   |   | /|        |      –  |                  |   |   |//         |____           * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     -/        *– _– _     //           |          /  _     \ _ //   |        /        *  /   _ /- | –     |       |

Response:

Ha! Made you look, cracker!

Response:

Ha! Made you look, cracker!

What does this have to do with skating?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Blacks are the foremost perpetrators of "hate crimes". 30,000 White women are raped by black males every year. Over 5,000 Whites are assaulted. 1,800 Whites are murdered by blacks every year in America. Read "The Color of Crime" http://www.amren.com/colrcrim.html                           ||__||           |    Please do   |                          /   O O      |        NOT       |                         /                |     feed the    |                        /                |   the niggers  |                      /    |____        ||                     /     | | | |____/      ||                    /       |_|_|/   |    __ ||                   /  /              |____| ||                  /   |   | /|        |      –  |                  |   |   |//         |____           * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     -/        *– _– _     //           |          /  _     \ _ //   |        /        *  /   _ /- | –     |       |

What does this sick stuff have to do with skating?

Response:

Dear Julia.. You are one sick puppy! Woman sentenced in racist e-mail hoax trash snipped

What does this have to do with skating?

Response:

What does this sick stuff have to do with skating?

It is related to Ice Skating in the exact same manner it is related to CD Recorders, GI-Joe toys, Fly Fishing, and Outdoor Travel (cross posted newsgroups).  There is no correlation, it is just some AWM (anger white male) venting their frustrations and showing their ignorance.  It is 2001, even red necks can get on the internet now

Response:

Woman sentenced in racist e-mail hoax BY JENNIFER FEEHAN BLADE STAFF WRITER BOWLING GREEN – A black woman who admitted sending racist e-mail messages to herself was placed on probation yesterday for two years and ordered to write a letter of apology to Bowling Green State University students. Omobonike Odegbami, 27, of Toledo, Ohio pleaded guilty Oct. 27 to tampering with evidence, a third-degree felony. Investigators said she reported to BGSU police in April that she had received threatening, racially charged e-mail from an unknown source. A graduate student at the time, she relayed her story to the campus newspaper, which published a front-page story about the case. Campus police enlisted the aid of the FBI, soon zeroing in on classmates and instructors in Odegbami’s small graduate program. She eventually confessed. Odegbami, appearing yesterday in Wood County Common Pleas Court, apologized before Judge Reeve Kelsey but offered no explanation for her actions. She declined to comment after the sentencing. James Wiegand, director of public safety at BGSU, told Judge Kelsey that university officials are "both disappointed and certainly relieved" at the outcome of the case. He said it is disappointing that a student would go to such lengths to get attention, but a relief that the messages were bogus. Wood County Prosecutor Alan Mayberry said he agreed not to seek a prison sentence as part of a plea deal with Odegbami. However, he said he wants her to obtain counseling and apologize in a letter published in the campus newspaper. Odegbami’s attorney, Stanley Garrett, told the judge his client has no prior criminal record, that she accepts responsibility for what she did, and that she is attending the University of Toledo. Judge Kelsey said Odegbami must perform 200 hours of community service during her two years of community control, continue to undergo mental health counseling at her own expense, and pay all court costs. He warned that if she violates those conditions, she could receive more restrictive sanctions, go to jail for up to six months, or to prison for three years. — Blacks are the foremost perpetrators of "hate crimes". 30,000 White women are raped by black males every year. Over 5,000 Whites are assaulted. 1,800 Whites are murdered by blacks every year in America. Read "The Color of Crime" http://www.amren.com/colrcrim.html

Response:

Soltys Says Victims Tried to ‘Poison’ Him  By KPIX – Ann Notarangelo  Investigators say mass murder suspect Nikolay Soltys claims the family members he’s accused of killing were trying to "poison"  him.  However, language difficulties are making it hard for police to determine if that means Soltys believed his family was trying to  murder him, or simply ruin his reputation.  Police do say that the 27-year-old Ukrainian immigrant is cooperating with the investigation. But they won’t comment on reports  that Soltys has already confessed to the crimes, saying that revealing too many details could damage their case in court.  Soltys is now in protective custody in the county jail, to protect him from other inmates and himself. He was arrested Thursday,  outside his mother’s home in a Sacramento suburb.  Soltys is suspected of killing his wife, son, and four other family members, but police say there’s no evidence he went to his  mother’s house to hurt anyone. Instead, investigators thought the Soltys may have been trying to reach out to his mother. It was  that possibility that inspired police to quietly watch the home since the family chose to leave protective custody earlier this week.  Police also gave Soltys’ mother a panic button to use if her son appeared.  "It’s designed to be a one-button-push call to the 911 operator," said Sgt. Jamie Lewis with the Sacramento County Sheriff’s  Department. "Ultimately, they decided not to use this device, because they wanted to put some distance between them and the  suspect."  But police say that decision backfired. When the family tried to call 911 on the cell phone authorities had also given them, they  mistakenly dialed 119. A store clerk eventually helped them make the call.

Response:

Question:

I picked up a fly tying kit and tied my first fly… boy.. is it ugly !!! I think I shall call it ‘Dan’s Swamp Critter’. Why wife asked what it was.. I said "a fly". She said, "I know, but all of your other fly’s look like something". Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ? Thank in advance, -Dan-

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ?

        Joseph Bates, Jr.’s book on fly tying and fly fishing streamers has just be republished by Stackpole books. This is the most complete streamer pattern, history, fishing technique book on the subject.

Response:

(snip) Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

How about a tad more particulars on which feathers to use and how to prepare them?  Sounds like a plethera of very useful, inexpensive material here.  Specifically, what patterns of flys? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Wolfie, You got that right, I went wild when I got my first Ringneck Pheasant rooster skin. I even invented a couple of flies which I still use today.  As for the Phoenix skin, the last one of those rose from the ashes along with G’s rods. Ernie

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns <snip Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

Response:

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are a source of feathers commonly used as a substitute for jungle cock eyes for us po folks. Wolfgang who’s yer daddy, clarice?

Response:

Hi Group A friend of mine swears by Starling feathers. Doesn’t show his flies around a lot but I’ve seen his rod bent a few times. Good price too! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F. Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Mike, They are European Starlings.  Some damn fool imported them along with the English Sparrow and they have destroyed farm crops ever since.  A bunch of them even brought down an airliner.  I am glad to hear they are good for something. Ernie "Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

Response:

Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

Response:

Congrats!  The real thrill will come when you catch a fish on a fly you tied yourself! Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

Response:

Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

…..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

Response:

…..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

        fucking wonderful wayno

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since. Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

reads like a TA (Tiers Anonymous) add.. Herman …..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.    Cheers, Herman    Herman Nijland    Daytime webmaster    Lifetime flyfisher

I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside.

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Response:

Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Stan, growing up in Newport News, VA we learned early on the Purple Martin housing and Starling competition was SERIOUS business.  Purple Martins are key players in mosquito control.  For most people in the South, Starlings are a disposable pest. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

….I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin…..

The Lady Amherst is another variety of pheasant.  In my manic tying material acquisition phase I managed to get complete skins from 4 or 5 species of pheasant.  Most of them are quietly moldering in a box somewhere.  Each of them offers feathers for a few specific patterns, but aside from that they are just pretty to look at.  Much better to buy loose feathers for your gray ghosts, etc.  The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns.  Virtually all of them have common uses.  Of course, one can always experiment with the lovely feathers from all the others, by my own experience and that of all the other tiers I used to hang with suggests that the results will typically be a lot better for show than for catching fish.  Still, practicality has little to do with the whole process, does it?    :) Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

Response:

Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….

Done deal! Bruce (here kitty kitty!) Thomsen

Response:

I’ll second Franks demand. Since practice makes perfect, you improve your tying skills. You are going to half to tie 25 or 30 of a single pattern and you’re likely to see an improvement from as you go. You are going to have some excellent examples to go by. I saved all the flies that I got in the first swap (and will with the current one as well). I tied up many of the flies and fished with the replicas but saved the originals. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Waynw, Amherst is a breed of pheasant like Golden and Ringneck.  The mink coat sounds good, you are the only tier I know who is starting out with one, . Ernie "Wayne Hart" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. Wayne

Response:

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Olive Biot Nymph (legs whch may or may not be utilized).  The book on fly tying I got from ezflyfish.com (your source for great fly fishing products at fair prices and superlative service) has a number of patterns using Starling feathers and silk thread (probably UK pattern origins). — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Question:

Is there any small lake fish that cannot be successfully and easily caught with a hook, worm and bobber? I ask this because I am amazed at how much stuff I have to catch bass/muskie/northern etc. that often gets no hits whatsoever, but a meaty nightcrawler almost always sinks the bobber within a few minutes and it’s anyone’s guss what will be pulled out of the water.  I have also noticed that a yellow or green 1-2" curly tail on a jig is almost as good. I am getting tempted to leave my tackle box at home and just bring a small pocket sized box with me containing several hooks, bobbers, plastic curltails in various colors/sizes and jigs. Today I went canoe fishing on Hooker Lake in Kenosha, WI.  I used a 3" floating rapala, a floating frog(green and white), a silver shad colored slug-go fished near top and near bottom, a 4" semi transparent minnow looking thing at all depths, a realistic looking and scented plastic worm about 6"(after a while I even tipped the hook with a real wax worm) and a smallish spinner bait.  I tried every type of presentation I could think of. I fished shallow, I fished deep.  I fished weeds, I fished docks, I fished every bit of structure I could find, I fished open water. I caught nothing for 5 hours, not even a little hit. I saw some guy go out onto his pier in his back yard, throw a nightcrawler/bobber rig into the water and figured he was panfishing. Within 30 seconds he pulled out what had to have been a 20+ inch bass.  I was jealous.  He didn’t even look excited about it, like he was used to this sort of thing. I switched to nightcrawler and bobber. I caught perch, bluegill, bass, an impressively large shad, and almost got into the boat what looked to be a sub legal size northern (don’t know what he was doing in hooker lake.)  all within the 90 minutes I had left before I had to head in. Anyone else feel my pain? — Dave A

Response:

Sorry Dave, no pain felt here.  You were versitile enough to change when you saw someone else catching fish on something you knew caught fish, and you adapted.  Good job…next time, throw out a rod with live bait, and fish with a lure simultaneously, and perhaps the combo rigging will tell you sooner, which presentation they prefer.  Keep at it. — "Mad-Mikey"  At first, fishing and hunting were just hobbies,              then they became addictions taking all my time              and money. If they ever find a cure for these              sicknesses—   I’m refusing treatment. Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Dave! I am mainly a fly fisherman.  I had not dunked a worm since I was about 14… 20+ years ago.  For the past two weeks I have been messing around with worms and I’m having a ball!  I’ve caught walleye, catfish, various panfish and my first ever large mouth bass and drum. Good luck! — Fritz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any small lake fish that cannot be successfully and easily caught with a hook, worm and bobber? I ask this because I am amazed at how much stuff I have to catch bass/muskie/northern etc. that often gets no hits whatsoever, but a meaty nightcrawler almost always sinks the bobber within a few minutes and it’s anyone’s guss what will be pulled out of the water.  I have also noticed that a yellow or green 1-2" curly tail on a jig is almost as good. I am getting tempted to leave my tackle box at home and just bring a small pocket sized box with me containing several hooks, bobbers, plastic curltails in various colors/sizes and jigs. Today I went canoe fishing on Hooker Lake in Kenosha, WI.  I used a 3" floating rapala, a floating frog(green and white), a silver shad colored slug-go fished near top and near bottom, a 4" semi transparent minnow looking thing at all depths, a realistic looking and scented plastic worm about 6"(after a while I even tipped the hook with a real wax worm) and a smallish spinner bait.  I tried every type of presentation I could think of. I fished shallow, I fished deep.  I fished weeds, I fished docks, I fished every bit of structure I could find, I fished open water. I caught nothing for 5 hours, not even a little hit. I saw some guy go out onto his pier in his back yard, throw a nightcrawler/bobber rig into the water and figured he was panfishing. Within 30 seconds he pulled out what had to have been a 20+ inch bass.  I was jealous.  He didn’t even look excited about it, like he was used to this sort of thing. I switched to nightcrawler and bobber. I caught perch, bluegill, bass, an impressively large shad, and almost got into the boat what looked to be a sub legal size northern (don’t know what he was doing in hooker lake.)  all within the 90 minutes I had left before I had to head in. Anyone else feel my pain? — Dave A

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Question:

I’m wondering if any of you know what kind of paint is used on pastic baits and where would  you purchse some if you wanted to paint your own.

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Are you holding out on me, Jim? I didn’t know you were using Pastic Baits!!!!!!! Is that a new sponsor?

Response:

Try Jann’s Netcraft or Lurecraft on the net. — The RodMaker http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/2865

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering if any of you know what kind of paint is used on pastic baits and where would  you purchse some if you wanted to paint your own.

Response:

I use airplane model paint  for my bass poppers (the ones with plastic bodies) which I fly fish with. Works well on plastic. Probably would work on metal. So cheap it is probably worth a try unless you get a better suggestion. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

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I use Tester Model Paint it seems to work pretty well FISH-ON FISH-HARD

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Question:

Hello, I recently was in my local K-Mart and checked out the fishing section, while I would find little use in ,most of the products they sell I did find what I precieve to be a bargain. I found Scientific Anglers AirCel Supreme2  WF-6 and-7-  F/S  wet tip III lines for $10.00 each, the orignal price was $36.00 so I picked up two 7wts. and one 6wt.

Those were a bargain, unless they had been ‘cooking’ in the back of the store for years. Don’t tinker with them: you’ll end up spoiling perfectly good lines. Here on UK stillwaters we use sink tips when we need to get wet flies and nymphs down a foot or three deeper than could be achieved with a full floater. Sink tips aren’t quite as sweet to cast as floaters (or even full sinking lines), but they are handy to have in the armoury. You might find them useful for getting nymphs down a bit in faster/deeper streams. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Hello, I recently was in my local K-Mart and checked out the fishing section, while I would find little use in ,most of the products they sell I did find what I precieve to be a bargain. I found Scientific Anglers AirCel Supreme2  WF-6 and-7-  F/S  wet tip III lines for $10.00 each, the orignal price was $36.00 so I picked up two 7wts. and one 6wt. My questions are has anybody used this line in the sink tip much, I have never used a sink tip and if it would be better to have a top of the line (line) I would use the three I have to trade w/friends and purchase a higher quality line. Does this line have a stiff finish (AirCell)  also my last question is about what line wt. to use, I have a fast 6.wt. and the directions say to use a line wt. heavier if you want to trim the 10ft. tip into say a 6ft. I find a floater is just fine for the majority of my fishing but there are times when a sink tip would be good, Does the weight then come from the tip itself? and if I trimmed back a 6wt. line would it be too light to load easily? if anybody can help please reply I just know $10.00 either way is worth it I have a new S.A. catalog and do not see the old lines anymore and have never had an older catalog so I am not famaliar w/ this product. Thanks…

Response:

My WF4F line is a $10 SA from kmart. nice dull green color, handles well. I like it. There’s the chance it will wear out sooner than a high dollar line, but at $10, just get another one! Since a WF line has most of its weight at the sharp end, cutting 5′ of the sinking section off should have a noticeable effect on how it casts, plus, you will lose the tapered section. But, if you feel like experimenting, all you are risking is $10. Personally, I would leave it as is, at least for the time being. Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyo.

Response:

Good Deal. I have used the same line for a couple of seasons in 6& 8 wt. (but I don’t use sink tips all that much anyway)  It is shorter than I’m use to … About 85 ft  I think.  I have found it easy casting and long casting.  It is much better than some Cortland sink tips I’ve used.   I think I purchased the lines for about $20 a few years back on a closeout and they are worth every penny! I use the same wt line as the rod and I think I have cut one of these lines back to 8′ with no problem.  If the line is like mine it is a fairly slow sink tip (although the box states fast 1.50"-2" per second) and doesn’t overload the way some of the other sink tips do.  I suspect the sinking portion on this line is accomplished more by it’s small tip diameter than extra weight. I use SA Mastery Bonefish lines mostly but this line is quite similar to SA Ultra with regard to stiffness and feel.  It also works fine in cold weather with little memory. I wish our Kmart’s carried the stuff.  My good find lately was at a Wal-Mart.  2mm Neoprene socks for $8 and 2mm neoprene gloves w/ finger cutouts for $9—-Hunting Dept. Tip:  Try a very short leader with the sink tip (12" then 18" tippet)  It will cast better,the fly will sink better, and the fish don’t seem mind. Good Fishing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I recently was in my local K-Mart and checked out the fishing section, while I would find little use in ,most of the products they sell I did find what I precieve to be a bargain. I found Scientific Anglers AirCel Supreme2  WF-6 and-7-  F/S  wet tip III lines for $10.00 each, the orignal price was $36.00 so I picked up two 7wts. and one 6wt. My questions are has anybody used this line in the sink tip much, I have never used a sink tip and if it would be better to have a top of the line (line) I would use the three I have to trade w/friends and purchase a higher quality line. Does this line have a stiff finish (AirCell)  also my last question is about what line wt. to use, I have a fast 6.wt. and the directions say to use a line wt. heavier if you want to trim the 10ft. tip into say a 6ft. I find a floater is just fine for the majority of my fishing but there are times when a sink tip would be good, Does the weight then come from the tip itself? and if I trimmed back a 6wt. line would it be too light to load easily? if anybody can help please reply I just know $10.00 either way is worth it I have a new S.A. catalog and do not see the old lines anymore and have never had an older catalog so I am not famaliar w/ this product. Thanks…

Response:

Question:

Thanks, I may give it a shot sometime soon. In a sit-on-top kayak, staying dry is not much of an option<g. I would expect to stay in pretty close to shore and away from other boats though. I’m not sure since I have never kayaked…but I have used a lake canoe out there.  It is advisable of course to use it in areas where you can avoid heavy boat traffice <obviously. But to answer your question simply…yes…it would probably be a godsend for you. Make sure you have enough room to keep stuff dry Tight lines,

– Charlie…

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I’m not sure since I have never kayaked…but I have used a lake canoe out there.  It is advisable of course to use it in areas where you can avoid heavy boat traffice <obviously. But to answer your question simply…yes…it would probably be a godsend for you. Make sure you have enough room to keep stuff dry Tight lines, — Nicholas J. Slodki

:Nicholas, : :Would a sea kayak be any good down there. I just bought a sit-on-top :and have been thinking about trying it around that area (I’m in :Atlanta). Thanks. : : :Bryan, : :I’ve lived in that area many times before and visit constantly. : :What I suggest is an outfit from 7-10 wt., WF Intermediate or sinktip type :II, and a reel with a min. of 220 yards of 20lb.  backing. : :If you head over toward panama city or are able to get back in the marshes :in Choctawhatchee and St. Andrews Bays, you’re in for a treat.  They haven’t :had much rain down there until this last week and the water should be :relatively clear and the bottom stable.  Redfish and Seatrout will be moving :into the back harbors and inlets at this time of year as winter is :approaching.  On the jetties at the pass entrances, spanish mackerel, reds, :pomano in the surf and flats, jacks, possibly some blues, specks and small :sharks should be everywhere. : :Leaders should be no less 7′ and tapered to a min. of 10lb. class tippet. :Shock tippets would be good for the spanish…about a foot of 30lb. :albrighted to the tippet. : oppers are a must on the flats in the early mornings or evenings for reds, :specks and jacks.  Some dredging flies <McCrab, clousers, Puffs no larger :than a size 1 hook are good during the day.  Also deceivers in red/yellow, :white/yellow, white/black are excellent.  For the spanish macks, glass :minnows in a fast retrieve are way good. : :Make sure you bring a good pair of wading shoes that protect your feet from :shell debris and stingrays (yes, they’re everywhere too lol), a hat, and a :good pair of sunglasses. : :Hope this was helpful to you. : :– :Charlie…

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Bryan, I’ve lived in that area many times before and visit constantly. What I suggest is an outfit from 7-10 wt., WF Intermediate or sinktip type II, and a reel with a min. of 220 yards of 20lb.  backing. If you head over toward panama city or are able to get back in the marshes in Choctawhatchee and St. Andrews Bays, you’re in for a treat.  They haven’t had much rain down there until this last week and the water should be relatively clear and the bottom stable.  Redfish and Seatrout will be moving into the back harbors and inlets at this time of year as winter is approaching.  On the jetties at the pass entrances, spanish mackerel, reds, pomano in the surf and flats, jacks, possibly some blues, specks and small sharks should be everywhere. Leaders should be no less 7′ and tapered to a min. of 10lb. class tippet. Shock tippets would be good for the spanish…about a foot of 30lb. albrighted to the tippet. Poppers are a must on the flats in the early mornings or evenings for reds, specks and jacks.  Some dredging flies <McCrab, clousers, Puffs no larger than a size 1 hook are good during the day.  Also deceivers in red/yellow, white/yellow, white/black are excellent.  For the spanish macks, glass minnows in a fast retrieve are way good. Make sure you bring a good pair of wading shoes that protect your feet from shell debris and stingrays (yes, they’re everywhere too lol), a hat, and a good pair of sunglasses. Hope this was helpful to you. — Nicholas J. Slodki

:I am looking for anyone who may have some tips to share for fly fishing near :the Sandestin Resort in Florida.  I am planning to go mid October. Any :information on areas and tackle would be very helpful to a new initiate. : : :

Response:

Nicholas, Would a sea kayak be any good down there. I just bought a sit-on-top and have been thinking about trying it around that area (I’m in Atlanta). Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bryan, I’ve lived in that area many times before and visit constantly. What I suggest is an outfit from 7-10 wt., WF Intermediate or sinktip type II, and a reel with a min. of 220 yards of 20lb.  backing. If you head over toward panama city or are able to get back in the marshes in Choctawhatchee and St. Andrews Bays, you’re in for a treat.  They haven’t had much rain down there until this last week and the water should be relatively clear and the bottom stable.  Redfish and Seatrout will be moving into the back harbors and inlets at this time of year as winter is approaching.  On the jetties at the pass entrances, spanish mackerel, reds, pomano in the surf and flats, jacks, possibly some blues, specks and small sharks should be everywhere. Leaders should be no less 7′ and tapered to a min. of 10lb. class tippet. Shock tippets would be good for the spanish…about a foot of 30lb. albrighted to the tippet. Poppers are a must on the flats in the early mornings or evenings for reds, specks and jacks.  Some dredging flies <McCrab, clousers, Puffs no larger than a size 1 hook are good during the day.  Also deceivers in red/yellow, white/yellow, white/black are excellent.  For the spanish macks, glass minnows in a fast retrieve are way good. Make sure you bring a good pair of wading shoes that protect your feet from shell debris and stingrays (yes, they’re everywhere too lol), a hat, and a good pair of sunglasses. Hope this was helpful to you.

– Charlie…

Response:

I am looking for anyone who may have some tips to share for fly fishing near the Sandestin Resort in Florida.  I am planning to go mid October. Any information on areas and tackle would be very helpful to a new initiate.

Response:

Question:

says… Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. Hence, your statement about his credibility is your own misguided fallacy.

I figure that’s mostly Powseland’s doing.  I’ve been around this board for a while and he never came out and said he supported anything PeTA advocates that I remember.  Jim probably sees a  PeTA member behind every rock. Like you, I found his general slant to be contrary to their agenda.  Go figure. Things are a little dull with Tim absent. </c

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I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. Tim admits to a love for animals….I have no problem with that. Do you have a problem with it? This all started with a c&r vs. c&k bs debate. Tim kills for his table….he’s not the first nor will he be the last. If you choose to release, good for you. If Tim kills, good for him as long as it is done legally. He claims to fish legally. I choose to do both this year. Last year I caught and released well over 1,000 trout and intentionally killed 0. I’m sure some later died from their "experience" with my fly. If you subscribe to the 15% mortality figure that is bandied about, than over 150 fish died for the sake of my  selfish pleasure. This year I plan on enjoying some on my table and to slow down on the quantity c&r game. I know this decision will actually let more trout live….go figure…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. Yes you missed it. I don’t have the time to dig it out of Deja News. Why don’t you? I would appreciate it greatly. To help you out, he admitted to it just before he left r.o.f.f. BTW, Moe Skeeter is alive and well in other newsgroups. Go to In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. I suspect he once fished but gave it up years ago. He nows uses his past experience to dupe real anglers like yourself. I believe I found the article you are referring to, I’ll paste it below… For the record, it doesn’t say he is a PETA supporter, but that he is an animal rights supporter.  I personally don’t believe that he has ulterior motives, I think he is doing what he believes to be best.  It’s just that he thinks that what he believes is the only correct belief and what anyone else believes is completely wrong and is disgracing a fish and fly-fishing.   Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder if Tim, Muskie, and Vandenman are the same person?  :-)  I don’t know if I’d be more frightened to find out they were the same person or three different people.  :-O Later,     – Ken — Not speaking for Intel rec.outdoors.fishing .fly) Newsgroups:   rec.outdoors.fishing.fly No…if it wasn’t for the mellowness brought on by an occasional good homebrew, I’d be much worse.  Beleive me. On second thought, I agree with you. You do seem to have a lot of hate, anger and fear, which is quite common in AR-supporters. That’s because you piss us both off…<g… That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter.  What wildlife love among us is not ? There are some things that are wrong…like the guy that buried those puppies alive…we need AR laws so that we can prosecute bastards like that.  I have simply drawn the line and "Pure C&R fishing" happens to live on that side of the line which includes other ‘pure sport’ hunting and fishing such as Trophy Big Game Hunting and Prarie Dog shoots. We should not kill, maim, harass or cause undue stress to wild animals…unless we plan to eat them or otherwise use them…which is clearly covered as acceptible. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

– The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

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Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?   -Mark

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Michael K Skorey wrote Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?  

You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your on nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry . —                                                       -dnc-

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: : All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is : his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?   Well, I’m not one of the ruffled one’s since I’m usually on his side, but I don’t really fish that often since moving from Colorado to the southern desert of New Mexico, so I can’t report on anything I did or learned. I’m spending more of my "leisure" computer time on horse and donkey discussions, as that’s where my interest lies for now. But this spring I *will* be heading into the Gila to catch up on catching trout. If all goes well my burro will be packing my gear  ;-) JonCook.

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<snip : learned. I’m spending more of my "leisure" computer time on horse and : donkey discussions, as that’s where my interest lies for now. But this I’m guessing you’d want to go with a 9 or 10 weight for a horse or donkey, wouldn’t you?  Do they feed on the surface? —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

Response:

Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?   -Mark

I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away.  An interesting trade-off, eh? Peter

Response:

says… All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Hmmm, I’m not sure T-Bone’s departure is temporary. After admitting that he is a PETA supporter, he pretty much blew his cover. And credibility.

Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. Hence, your statement about his credibility is your own misguided fallacy.

Response:

: : I’m guessing you’d want to go with a 9 or 10 weight for a horse or : donkey, wouldn’t you? Heck even an 8 is sufficient, but you have to go back to fiberglass, because the fast-action graphite stings too much when you whack ‘em. JonCook.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. Yes you missed it. I don’t have the time to dig it out of Deja News. Why don’t you? I would appreciate it greatly. To help you out, he admitted to it just before he left r.o.f.f. BTW, Moe Skeeter is alive and well in other newsgroups. Go to In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. I suspect he once fished but gave it up years ago. He nows uses his past experience to dupe real anglers like yourself.

I believe I found the article you are referring to, I’ll paste it below… For the record, it doesn’t say he is a PETA supporter, but that he is an animal rights supporter.  I personally don’t believe that he has ulterior motives, I think he is doing what he believes to be best.  It’s just that he thinks that what he believes is the only correct belief and what anyone else believes is completely wrong and is disgracing a fish and fly-fishing.   Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder if Tim, Muskie, and Vandenman are the same person?  :-)  I don’t know if I’d be more frightened to find out they were the same person or three different people.  :-O Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for Intel rec.outdoors.fishing .fly) Newsgroups:   rec.outdoors.fishing.fly No…if it wasn’t for the mellowness brought on by an occasional good homebrew, I’d be much worse.  Beleive me. On second thought, I agree with you. You do seem to have a lot of hate, anger and fear, which is quite common in AR-supporters.

That’s because you piss us both off…<g… That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter.  What wildlife love among us is not ? There are some things that are wrong…like the guy that buried those puppies alive…we need AR laws so that we can prosecute bastards like that.  I have simply drawn the line and "Pure C&R fishing" happens to live on that side of the line which includes other ‘pure sport’ hunting and fishing such as Trophy Big Game Hunting and Prarie Dog shoots. We should not kill, maim, harass or cause undue stress to wild animals…unless we plan to eat them or otherwise use them…which is clearly covered as acceptible. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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where I live trout season never closes  -  sort of an endless summer (just lots and lots of rain in certain months!) Peter

Moe asked me to ask you if there are any trout left?

Response:

says… I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand?

The part where he states he is a card carrying member for PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS, or to clarify it further, PETA. You said he was a PETA member/supporter….you intentionally misled the group, hence THE BIG LIE….save your stories for the river where it is acceptable to stretch a tale.

Response:

Hey Ralphie, I thought you had gone on sabbatical too.  

no – I’ve just been very busy … 25 days, 2 hours and 41 minutes before trout season opens, I’m not going to make.

where I live trout season never closes  -  sort of an endless summer (just lots and lots of rain in certain months!) Peter

Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah .. . he needed a break. But don’t ya’ think he might be lurking right now enjoying, all the ‘where’s Tim – I miss all the fascinatin’ dust ups he precipitated ‘ thinkin’ … hey they really do love me!" and preparing for a dramatic return! Then he’ll begin repeating himself all over again. Who said the LP is dead? Oh that’s just Tim – thought it was time to dust off my old 45’s. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Hey Ralphie, I thought you had gone on sabbatical too.   25 days, 2 hours and 41 minutes before trout season opens, I’m not going to make. Peter

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. After I posted something, I enjoyed sitting back and waiting for the novel way Tim would string curses together, to describe it and me. But it was time for him to take a rest as he was begining to repeat himself. Peter

yeah .. . he needed a break. But don’t ya’ think he might be lurking right now enjoying, all the ‘where’s Tim – I miss all the fascinatin’ dust ups he precipitated ‘ thinkin’ … hey they really do love me!" and preparing for a dramatic return! Then he’ll begin repeating himself all over again. Who said the LP is dead? Oh that’s just Tim – thought it was time to dust off my old 45’s. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, I’ve avoided responding to Jim P. for years now, but I see it’s about time… : So he says. Actually, I think it is just a lie. Timbo probably was an : angler in the past but he is no longer. And that just goes to show you that you live in your own little world. I’ve personally seen him bonk fish in the last year. I’ve said it before — with all the analogies Tim has made of fishing with hunting (i.e., providing food through sport, not playing trout golf), you oughtta be his staunchest supporter…if you really are a hunter…then again, maybe you are the one with the hidden PETA agenda… JonCook.

Jon this really cracked me up! Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. Discussions about which areas are hot and not, where to fish and how well we just did in this stream at this hole on this day with this fly just don’t happen in this group. I can’t blame anyone for that,  I don’t want the whole world to know the prime spots I fish either. But in times when there is very little trout fly fishing going on (such as last winter), Timbo helped to spark an ember or two. I thought the best was the thread about the ass backwards lawyer who wanted to abolish Tim from the group. (kind of looks like it worked in retrospect). "end commercial fishing on all salmonids" Cheers

After I posted something, I enjoyed sitting back and waiting for the novel way Tim would string curses together, to describe it and me. But it was time for him to take a rest as he was begining to repeat himself. Peter

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I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away.  An interesting trade-off, eh? Peter

Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. Discussions about which areas are hot and not, where to fish and how well we just did in this stream at this hole on this day with this fly just don’t happen in this group. I can’t blame anyone for that,  I don’t want the whole world to know the prime spots I fish either. But in times when there is very little trout fly fishing going on (such as last winter), Timbo helped to spark an ember or two.  I thought the best was the thread about the ass backwards lawyer who wanted to abolish Tim from the group. (kind of looks like it worked in retrospect). "end commercial fishing on all salmonids" Cheers

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Well, I’ve avoided responding to Jim P. for years now, but I see it’s about time… : I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. : : Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" Well, again, no mention of PETA… : What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand? So now you change the question from your original one… : Neither do I. It is called animal welfare. Animal *rights* is something : else entirely. If you’ve actually read the threads that have transpired, you’d know that Tim’s definition of "animal rights" is nowhere near what your definition is…so quit applying your narrow AR==PETA definition. It doesn’t fit. You all have twisted Tim’s words through the years, forcing him to make his own phrases, like "pure catch and release" — and then you assail him for it. Well, here’s the perfect example. Everyone except Jim knows that Tim did not mean the PETA agenda when he said "animal rights". : Tim kills for his table….he’s not the first nor will he be the last. : : So he says. Actually, I think it is just a lie. Timbo probably was an : angler in the past but he is no longer. And that just goes to show you that you live in your own little world. I’ve personally seen him bonk fish in the last year. You have no clue about what you write. I’ve said it before — with all the analogies Tim has made of fishing with hunting (i.e., providing food through sport, not playing trout golf), you oughtta be his staunchest supporter…if you really are a hunter…then again, maybe you are the one with the hidden PETA agenda… JonCook.

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Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand? Tim admits to a love for animals….I have no problem with that. Neither do I. It is called animal welfare. Animal *rights* is something else entirely. Do you have a problem with it? I have a problem with AR, not AW.

I USED to think there wasn’t any difference between Animal Rights and animal welfare. However, I’ve learned that when rights are given to animals, instead of animal welfare which protects them with laws requiring humane treatment, a whole nasty can of worms is opened up. It seems like a subtle difference but think of the consequences of assigning rights to animals.  A few to start: no eating of animal flesh, no pets or domesticated animals, no leather, no milk, ice cream or cheese, no animal research, etc. Willi

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I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away.  An interesting trade-off, eh?

Peter:  Good observation, at least because it agrees with mine!  That is, I have also noticed the emergence of some new posters since the C&R/C&K threads have died away.  In any event, you have to give Timbo credit for this – even his absence can provoke controversy, as well as the longest thread here in weeks. Mark Faulkner

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I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away.  An interesting trade-off, eh?

That kind of "debate" does keep people away.  I checked out this newsgroup about three years ago and quickly decided it wasn’t what I wanted to read every day.   I think it’s a lot friendlier now, not that Tim was ever unfriendly to me… on the contrary, actually; he e-mailed me answers to some of my questions and was quite encouraging. Ironically, it’s messages like this one I’m typing that I don’t want to see, so I’m done typing now!  I want to read about Fly Fishing!   Leave the debating to the after-fishing pub visits. Bob Scott

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Dave Tatosian wrote    "FiddleAway" wrote You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your o[w]n nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry .

Sorry ta ruffle your feathers, ol’ fart! …  8-) —                                                       -dnc-

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From the Deep South New Zealand

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Michael K Skorey wrote Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?   You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your o[w]n nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry .

HEY! Leave us curmudgeons out of this. Walker couldn’t qualify as a curmudgeon on a bet! /dave (Charter Member of CU – "Curmudgeons Unlimited")

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve Oh God was that funny…YEE HAA !!!! *WHAT* a monday morning in the newsgroup !!! TimW

Yea, What a HOOT!! RickM

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PETA has instructed all their members to write in BAMBI on all of their votes. Insider info, (PE)T(A)-Bone?

Ya know, Jim?  You’re obsession with Tim is starting to become kind of embarrassing to watch.  You might consider taking a break from the newsgroup and coming back when you’ve found your sense of humor. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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SOUNDS LIKE "REN & STIMPY" TO ME. OR PERHAPS "ITCHY AND SCRATCHY". YOU GUY’S OUGHTA LIGHTEN UP A LITTLE. I DON’T KNOW, MAYBE YOU COULD GO FISHING OR SOMETHING.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. While he may be a most seasoned fishing expert, he is clearly a usenet novice. If one comes into an unfamiliar usenet group flaming and screaming, one should expect it to come back around tenfold.  If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  (Gads!  I’m starting to sound like Ross Perot.  I need therapy.)

Speaking of therapy, How is the Ellis Hot Canned Chili withdrawel going ? George is a usenet tyro…which is even more perfect ! I abhor a stale newsgroup ! TimW

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snip And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way.

My own smoke in the eye heritage has more to do with people I’ve known than someone who refers to himself as a Professional Sportsman. Ross

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I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks.

He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve

  I’d put the pipe down for a while Steve,     Harry   ( it does have some merit though)

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: : It was kind of intense. :   I’d put the pipe down for a while Steve,   I’m guessing Spinolio often fishes alone.  Perhaps too often. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He also saved my life. There I was, packing up after a delightful spring afternoon on the second meadow section of Slough Creek, completely unaware of what was about to transpire. I was going through the usual routine – breaking down the rod, brushing off the sombrero, putting my clothes back on – when I heard a deep growl behind me. Turning quickly, I found myself face-to-face with the ugliest grizzly in Yellowstone. It didn’t look good. Suddenly, from out of nowhere came George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Keith on steriods, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die" The bear turned to face George and I thought he was toast when, in a flash, George crammed two bottles of Gink into his mouth and put the rolled up magazine to his lips. In the manner of an African tribesman with a blowgun, he shot the plastic bottles into the grizzly’s nostrils, where the caps popped open, releasing their patented paste into the beast’s brain. The grizzly spun in circles several times, salivating, bellowing, then it stopped. The bear sat there, eyes glazed, smiling. The bear was hallucinating. "COMMIE SONOFABITCH!" roared George as he launched himself at the beast, driving his hand into its frothing mouth and down its throat. I heard a loud crunch as the man’s fist clenched around the beast’s spinal cord. Then, with a sickening "rrriiipp" he tore the animal’s entire skeleton out of its body through its very mouth. Laughing like Zeus, George Gehrke held the bloody bones in the air, where the last rays of sunlight danced through their ghastly membranes like the tinsel on Satan’s Christmas tree. It was kind of intense. Steve

Oh God was that funny…YEE HAA !!!! *WHAT* a monday morning in the newsgroup !!! TimW

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I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He is one of the legends friends and we have him on the net.  This is a rare event for us that we should savour. And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way. TimW

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Aw T, you might lose your Crumudgeon membership card for this post, but I’d hate to see the reaction we saw to his forcefully stated position, drive George or anyone else off this/these groups. jg

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks. He is one of the legends friends and we have him on the net.  This is a rare event for us that we should savour. And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way. TimW

I like this ng. People come here, share their opinions about fly fishing, and other subjects. I’ve met some who come here. They, every one, every bit as respectable as the icons we hold up as the Patriarchs of fly fishing. Yes, I may have been loading my shorts when such people were exploring western trout waters that have long-since been relegated to stories. But I’d sooner find myself on a river with a Rick Fletcher, a Randy Shrock, or a Charlie Quinton than any of the people we may place in that category. The people who have contributed to most to this heritage, the individuals who do so now, have never gone noticed by an equipment manufacturer, a fishing magazine, or notoriety of any form, largely because if it came their way, they’d be too focussed on a floating dry fly, or taking a son or grandson beyond the hedonistic tendencies of human nature that impede the discovery of fly fishing. Mitch

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I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport.  He is arguably the most name recognized individual we have left.  All of us have carried Georges products in our vests.  He has fished with presidents and was casting in Alaska while you were pooping in your britches. He probably knew Lee Wolf and Charlie Brooks.

While he may be a most seasoned fishing expert, he is clearly a usenet novice. If one comes into an unfamiliar usenet group flaming and screaming, one should expect it to come back around tenfold.  If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  (Gads!  I’m starting to sound like Ross Perot.  I need therapy.) — -Wayne Trzyna

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I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport. [TEXT DELETED] And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way.

I don’t think the smoke is coming from your "smoke in the eye heritage". YOUR ONE OF THOSE CRACK SMOKIN ROSS PEROT, IDIOTS THAT SITS IN FRONT OF THE T.V. AND MASTERBAITS TO RUSH …AREN’T YOU ??? SO WHO IS PETA MAKING YOU VOTE FOR? …..Hee Heee Heee..;)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know the man, but I have a vision of him… He is a legend in our sport. [TEXT DELETED] And if my vision is clouded by my deep attachment to our smoke in the eye heritage, please don’t try to make it more clear.  I like it this way. I don’t think the smoke is coming from your "smoke in the eye heritage". YOUR ONE OF THOSE CRACK SMOKIN ROSS PEROT, IDIOTS THAT SITS IN FRONT OF THE T.V. AND MASTERBAITS TO RUSH …AREN’T YOU ??? SO WHO IS PETA MAKING YOU VOTE FOR? …..Hee Heee Heee..;)

Let me add ‘em up…1, 2, 3 (well, not to Rush…)… Yeah, I guess I am…. PETA has instructed all their members to write in BAMBI on all of their votes. TimW Thumper vor VP !

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Question:

I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head.  -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man… Beer is no heroin.  But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either.

true…flyfishing is much easier…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head.  -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man… Beer is no heroin.  But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either. I hesitate to take aspirin before ff.  Want all my senses at 100%. That’s how you catch big fish. Cheers, -Ande Rychter

I wish I would have known that fishing without a buzz would improved my fishing back in the sixties.  I might have caught some real big ones. Don Kelly

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head.  -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man… Beer is no heroin.  But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either. I hesitate to take aspirin before ff.  Want all my senses at 100%. That’s how you catch big fish. Cheers, -Ande Rychter I wish I would have known that fishing without a buzz would improved my fishing back in the sixties.  I might have caught some real big ones.

Buzzes or Fish ? TimW

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Yes, the good old sixties. T Wigs.

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Why brake? Cheap tying materials.

T Wigs

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: Beer is no heroin.  But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either. : I hesitate to take aspirin before ff.  Want all my senses at 100%. : That’s how you catch big fish. No wonder I’m stuck in the 12 inch trout range.  I’ve been taking aspirin all these years! Thanks for the tip Ande. Coming back this way again this year? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head.  -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man…

If a couple of pulls on the bottle leave you too buzzed to fish then I wouldn’t touch the stuff at all ! "I brake for animals and speed up for PETA" Brian Di Carlo

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I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head.  -AR christ almighty beer is not heroin, man…

Beer is no heroin.  But fly fishing is no hardware fishing either. I hesitate to take aspirin before ff.  Want all my senses at 100%. That’s how you catch big fish. Cheers, -Ande Rychter

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I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head.  -AR

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I can’t imagine fly fishing with a buzz in my head.  -AR

christ almighty beer is not heroin, man…

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Question:

Watch out for the new toilet rings they are not the old beeswax kind and are to soft and oily. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try Test clips from Radio shack, they are a lot cheaper than those from the fly shop.  Also,  Wax Toilet gaskets make about the tackiest dubbing Arrrrrrg!  THE WAX TOILET GASKET.    What a great idea.  I thought this thread was dead.  We  were just ready to put together kits and start tying.  We would have come up short.  But saved by the toilet gasket.    What can we use to store all this great equipment?  Maybe we should go to a pot party and buy some Tupper ware.   Nah!  We are doing such a fine job.  Throw the plastic out.   I’m a river keeper, too!      .

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Thread sucking is a method…

And here I thought that I had invented this.  Oh well, another delusion of grandeur blown all to bits… <grin regards, John — Dr. John G. Hardie Indiana University Cyclotron Facility

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Thread sucking is a method…

      Sounds a little like Blondie’s definition of Dagwood as a fly tyer: "thread-sucking-leach." —

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writes: I would like to start a new thread on fly tying tools and paraphernalia, specifically, home-brew tools or modifications to store-bought ones.  I am afraid of this hobby going the way of many others, where the manufacturers (and peer pressure) convince everyone that they need to buy things that are easily made at home.  I offer a few here to get things going: Who wants to add more? Dave

Here is another one for the bench.  You can make an inexpensive dubbing teaser by asking your dentist for a root-canal pick.  Epoxy them in a wood handle and you got yourself an Awsome Dubbing Teaser. Nick

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I use a selection of cartridge cases instead of an adjustable hair stacker.  Short = 9 mm Parabellum, Medium = 357 Mag, Long = Sawed off rifle case. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think there is a point where using home grown flytying tools vs. store bought tools is more trouble than it’s worth.  Hackle pliers are just not that expensive.  Working with good tools designed for flytying is going to make the whole experience more enjoyable.  Sure you can save a few bucks over the long run is it really worth it. On the other hand, several people advocated the use of bobbins with ceramic inserts.  Has anyone really come up with a good estimate about how long it takes to wear a groove in the tube of a bobbin with a metal sleave?  For the cost of a bobbin with a ceramic sleeve I can buy a couple of cheaper steel sleeve bobbins.  So it wears out after five years or so.  I would have save a lot of time over those years because I didn’t have to thread a bobbin (I use the thread sucking technique too and it works well for me) everry time I changed threads.

This is a very valid point.  I think the choice of tools follows with the depth of one’s tying.  Do you tie 100 flys in a sitting or just 3 or 4?  Do you tie for yourself only, just for friends to give away, or hundreds to sell to others?   I find that with the limited amount of tying I do — just for myself and a few friends — I can get by with the cheaper steel bobbin.  I have yet to wear a groove in one that I bought for 25 cents on clearance.  Hackle plyers are cheap.  Why spend hours grinding one smooth?  Or for that matter…. Why spend $125 or more on a vise?  If I made a business out of tying flys, however, my attitude would change drastically.  I would then want the best tools money can buy.   I enjoy hearing about the better tools and I have tried them out from time to time, but I tend to weigh their price with their advantages over my rather limited private use.   I feel the same way about rods and reels.   Bob

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Try Test clips from Radio shack, they are a lot cheaper than those from the fly shop.  Also,  Wax Toilet gaskets make about the tackiest dubbing wax you’ve ever seen.             Tom Loveday   Keizer, OR                I’d Rather Be Fishing

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try Test clips from Radio shack, they are a lot cheaper than those from the fly shop.  Also,  Wax Toilet gaskets make about the tackiest dubbing Arrrrrrg!  THE WAX TOILET GASKET.    What a great idea.  I thought this thread was dead.  We  were just ready to put together kits and start tying.  We would have come up short.  But saved by the toilet gasket.    What can we use to store all this great equipment?  Maybe we should go to a pot party and buy some Tupper ware.   Nah!  We are doing such a fine job.  Throw the plastic out.

For that matter, while you’re shopping at the hardware store for toilet items, pick up some lead wool.  It’s cheap and it makes great lead weight for flies. Jamus – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I’m a river keeper, too!      .

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:  What is the Thread Sucking technique for preparing a bobin? Aaron,  He’s refering to the practice of allowing some slack in your tying thread, placing the tip of the thread into the end of the barrel of your bobbin, and giving a sharp intake of air (i.e. "Sucking") to the other end of the barrel of the bobbin.  This pulls the thread through the barrel unless there is too much wax buildup to allow the thread in or you’re like me and insist on getting that slack you allowed wrapped around various parts of your anatomy and gumming up the works! Charley (been tying for my friends for 22 years!)

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Working with good tools designed for flytying is going to make the whole experience more enjoyable.  Sure you can save a few bucks over the long run is it really worth it.

I don’t use tools specifically manufactured for fly tying to save money.  I do it   for the same reason why I don’t watch drag racing.  Most drag racing, and other   "sports",  have come down to a competition of machines and equipment as opposed to   man.  I enjoy tying flies with as little manufactured tools as possible because it   becomes a question of what is making the fly that catches the fish, a skilled   creative person or equipment.  I still catch plenty of fish. —

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This is an old one, but many people use electronic test lead clips as hackle pliers.  They come in a variety of sizes and can be bought at places like Radio Shack. I’ve also heard of using the (hemostat or tubing?) clamps from a medical supply store for hackle pliers.  File the teeth off of the clamping surfaces.  (I’m not in the medical profession, so I probably have the exact type of clamp wrong.)  

I think the proper medical term for those kinds of clamps is "roach clip" I think there is a point where using home grown flytying tools vs. store bought tools is more trouble than it’s worth.  Hackle pliers are just not that expensive.  Working with good tools designed for flytying is going to make the whole experience more enjoyable.  Sure you can save a few bucks over the long run is it really worth it. On the other hand, several people advocated the use of bobbins with ceramic inserts.  Has anyone really come up with a good estimate about how long it takes to wear a groove in the tube of a bobbin with a metal sleave?  For the cost of a bobbin with a ceramic sleeve I can buy a couple of cheaper steel sleeve bobbins.  So it wears out after five years or so.  I would have save a lot of time over those years because I didn’t have to thread a bobbin (I use the thread sucking technique too and it works well for me) everry time I changed threads. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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And here I thought I was one of the only ones to show up at the local welding shop with a set of new (slightly modified) Vise-Grips and a length of steel rod, asking for them to be welded together. It’s just about the only way to handle big saltwater hooks! JL 8-Wt Editor

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And here I thought I was one of the only ones to show up at the local welding shop with a set of new (slightly modified) Vise-Grips and a length of steel rod, asking for them to be welded together. It’s just about the only way to handle big saltwater hooks!

An HMH vise with a super magnum jaw will handle the largest hooks. Mark Miller

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On the other hand, several people advocated the use of bobbins with ceramic inserts.  Has anyone really come up with a good estimate about how long it takes to wear a groove in the tube of a bobbin with a metal sleave?

For those of us who tie large bass bugs and use Kevlar thread, you can tear up a steel tube in short order (less than a season). The ceramic tubes hold up much better when Kevlar is you spinning thread of choice. JL 8-Wt Editor

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This is an old one, but many people use electronic test lead clips as hackle pliers.  They come in a variety of sizes and can be bought at places like Radio Shack. I’ve also heard of using the (hemostat or tubing?) clamps from a medical supply store for hackle pliers.  File the teeth off of the clamping surfaces.  (I’m not in the medical profession, so I probably have the exact type of clamp wrong.)  I don’t know, however, if this alternative is cheaper than the ones from fly tying supply stores. Dave

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Couldn’t agree more about exercising good home-grown common sense inventivenes to accomplish just about everything promised by the gadget-floggers.

Very true.  And, although this observation drifts slightly away from the subject of home-made tying tools, the very best tools a fly tier has are his or her hands.  I try to rely on mechanical tools as little as possible, tying as much as possible with the fingers.  This saves time otherwise lost in locating, picking up and putting down the tool each time a fly is tied. Laying out your tools and materials in advance, and then tying with less fiddling with unnecessary tools, allows you to swiftly and smoothly tie a dozen flies of the same pattern, and they’ll be tighter, better flies. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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My father-in-law has made me several hair stackers out of copper and brass pipe scraps and end fittings, using sizes which just fit inside the next.  I then glued rubber on the bottom so they don’t rattle when tapped to stack the hair.  He also made me a vise, but nothing can substitute for my HMH. A bic pen with the guts removed is possibly the most useful tool for pushing back piles of spun deer hair, and also half hitching. You can often thread your bobbin by starting the thread and then sucking it through, that is if the wax is not built up too bad. The ultimate in homemade tools, the mouth!

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A spent shotgun shell can be used as a hair stacker. I made a "bobbin hanger" (not sure if there is an official name) out of a wire coat hanger.  I have seen fancier ones made from a piece of rod soldered to a small metal tube that slips over the upright rod of a vice.  Before wrapping hackle, you half-hitch the thread, then extend the thread out off of the eye end of the hook and over the bobbin hanger.  The thread is now out of the way for winding the hackle. Dave

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The front end of a ballpoint pen casing makes a find half-hitch tool. Different pens yield different sizes of hole in the tool.  (Is there anyone who doesn’t Who wants to add more?

I have not seen it lately, perhaps to a lack of looking around, but back in the fifties I use to see people using vise grips for fly tying vises.  It worked great, depending on the fly, at times you lay the VG on it side, adjust the jaw closure to be proper for you size hook and have at it.  I think it would probably work for any fly if you build a modest little stand out of wood and hold the vise up off of the table or what ever.  When we used to tye the flys out on the boat, we just stuck the jaw part over the edge of a table.   I just remembered a local tyer in Annapolis, Md also used a vise grip.  He did not cotton to a lot of foolishness,  but his flys sure worked. George,

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Couldn’t agree more about exercising good home-grown common sense inventivenes to accomplish just about everything promised by the gadget-floggers. But Dave, I think you’re a little late. Look in this year’s catalogs and you’ll see there’s everything from fly steam-cleaners to special brushes to re-align plume barbs. (sigh!) The gadgeteers have alread won. Still, we don’t have to buy, do we? If you can get your hands on some back issues of American Fly Tyer and Angler, there’s a regular series on the sort of thing you’re talking about.  Have fun. — David A. Calderisi

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I would like to start a new thread on fly tying tools and paraphernalia, specifically, home-brew tools or modifications to store-bought ones.  I am afraid of this hobby going the way of many others, where the manufacturers (and peer pressure) convince everyone that they need to buy things that are easily made at home.  I offer a few here to get things going: A potter’s needle tool is a cheap alternative to a dubbing needle. You can make a dubbing needle from a sewing needle and a piece of wooden dowel rod.  Glue the needle into a hole drilled in the end of the dowel.  If you break the needle across the eye first, the two jagged ends can be jammed into the bottom of the hole for better holding power.  (Be careful and protect your eyes when cutting/breaking the needle.) Dental floss threaders (available at drug stores) can be used as bobbin threaders. You can make a bobbin threader out of piano wire.  Bend a piece of wire in half, drill a hole in the end of a wooden dowel rod, and epoxy the two ends of the wire into the hole. I suspect you can also make a dubbing fur winding tool in a similar fashion. Nail polish works as head cement.  I’ve had Sally Hansen’s "Hard As Nails with Nylon" in nude (i.e., clear) highly recommended.  Pull out the bristles from the brush and replace with a (broken off) sewing needle, instead.  The needle applicator will allow you to apply a drop at a time without needing to grab your dubbing needle or a toothpick to do it.  (I’ve seen other people use this trick, but haven’t done it yet myself.  I am not sure if you need to epoxy the needle in place or if it will stick there on its own.) The front end of a ballpoint pen casing makes a find half-hitch tool. Different pens yield different sizes of hole in the tool.  (Is there anyone who doesn’t know this one already?) Who wants to add more? Dave

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