Question:

<snip I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here.

George: I’ll admit that I haven’t a clue what your point is most of the time. Like, for example, what the hell does the subject of this thread mean? So, elucidate some more: Were you referring to some particular magazine article or book reference or a posting here on roff or rofft that failed to use the original pattern and materials for some famous fly?  If so, a reference would have helped establish a context for your post.  Without a context, your post comes off as simple pontification and a plea for hero worship, both of which chafe. Apologies for failing to gel – it must be the pineapple. –Stan PS for Eugene Knapik: tie up all the traditional streamers you like.  It’s freedom of choice, man.  I love it.  Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

Eugene, I don’t recognize your "handle," so I’ll guess you are either an infrequent poster, a lurker, or new to ROFF.  If you don’t realize what’s up with Ginkles (Gehrke), only a google groups search, several hours of sometimes-humorous, sometimes-sad reading will truly bring you up to speed.  A by-no-means complete, albeit completely representative, selection of his greatest hits can be found at www.ginkstinks.com (I have nothing to do with this site, but I highly recommend it).  That said: Of course you should tie what pleases you and/or your target fish.  If you are tying flies for fishing, IMO, tie what works, regardless of materials – some of the now-classic patterns, and now-traditional patterns that were mods of "classics," started as bits of long johns, jacket lining, and other "non-traditional" materials.  If you are tying for your, or other people’s, enjoyment, such as for "display" or presentation flies, then, by all means, tie with what you feel is appropriate for that context.  Tying "classics" is, as you correctly point out, a fine tradition, and a fine hobby unto itself. TC, R

Response:

<snip You’re doing just fine Stan. You got the point and I’m sure your Bate’s style Mickey Finns will work great.

Nope.  Didn’t get your point, and you didn’t get mine.  I don’t tie anything in anybody’s style but mine. Fudd’s First Law of Opposition applies. My work is done. –Stan (off to Dr. Beddoes Pneumatic Institute)

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso!

An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post….

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post….

But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :) Wolfgang

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post…. But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :)

My mistake – I didn’t know expresso was a legitimate variant of espresso. It’s funny how the more you make fun of people, the more you learn…

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post…. But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :) My mistake – I didn’t know expresso was a legitimate variant of espresso. It’s funny how the more you make fun of people, the more you learn…

Somebody, (two people) out of 9000 Active & Inactive (stalkers of roff) finally got it!  Jeff?  You get a gold star next to your name this morning.  I’m so impressed,  you drew me out of semi retirement.  A+ my friend.  You get an A+! Imagine Wolfgang’s demeanor when onpresso?

Response:

Try staying up for a week, consuming nothing but double espresso until the 8th day, and then eating 4 pounds of anchovy paste and a box of dry Grape Nuts, all washed down with about a gallon of grain alcohol Thunderdog, and then, find a carnival and buy an hour on the Tilt-a-Whirl…come home and try to post, from memory, the entire "St Crispen’s Day" speech from Henry V, as "your good friend" Yogi Berra would have made it, embellished with a critique of the strategies used in the Battle of Agincourt….in the first person plural, of course… TA-DA!  Ginklespew!  Literary Ginklespew, but Ginklespew shall it be…

        And gentlemen in England now a-bed         Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,         And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks         That heard with us Saint Ginkle’s bray. TC, R who knows Ginkles just holds his manhood, such as it may be, cheap…

Cheap or dear, at least he does the job himself! Wolfgang as in who else would?

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! George who is sipping club soda

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here. George: I’ll admit that I haven’t a clue what your point is most of the time. Like, for example, what the hell does the subject of this thread mean? So, elucidate some more: Were you referring to some particular magazine article or book reference or a posting here on roff or rofft that failed to use the original pattern and materials for some famous fly?  If so, a reference would have helped establish a context for your post.  Without a context, your post comes off as simple pontification and a plea for hero worship, both of which chafe.

Never strive to do this.  It could be your reading style?  :)))))))))) ! (just kidding) Apologies for failing to gel – it must be the pineapple. –Stan PS for Eugene Knapik: tie up all the traditional streamers you like.  It’s freedom of choice, man.  I love it.  Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

You’re doing just fine Stan. You got the point and I’m sure your Bate’s style Mickey Finns will work great. — George

Response:

You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there. Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :) Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

When it comes to you, "I can" imagine. I picture you sitting on a big boulder with fist sized rock in your hand over your head.  You’re naked because you cannot imagine wearing clothes in you’re imagination.  Imagine that!  Between your legs are three little, itty-bitty rocks you’re about to try and crack open.  One is a little stone and the other two rocks are you’re own.  You have this confused look on your face Wolfgang. Sitting beside you, on the boulder is a real walnut.  In fact, there are several of them.  In addition to this scene, beside you sits a chimpanzee and he has broken walnut shells scattered all around him.  The chimp has his hand over its’ mouth.  Next to the chimp sits LaCourse with both his hands over his eyes screaming, "I CAN’T LOOK!!" Imagine yourself finally getting up the nerve to hit one of those stones . . . This is really unimaginable.  Can you imagine that Wolfie? I can’t.

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

Yes, indeed, and why not when you’re able? g.g.

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……Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

Some of mine look more like Mickey Spillane……but it don’t matter……the fish hate ‘em…..like cops hate doughnuts. Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there. Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :)

Try staying up for a week, consuming nothing but double espresso until the 8th day, and then eating 4 pounds of anchovy paste and a box of dry Grape Nuts, all washed down with about a gallon of grain alcohol Thunderdog, and then, find a carnival and buy an hour on the Tilt-a-Whirl…come home and try to post, from memory, the entire "St Crispen’s Day" speech from Henry V, as "your good friend" Yogi Berra would have made it, embellished with a critique of the strategies used in the Battle of Agincourt….in the first person plural, of course… TA-DA!  Ginklespew!  Literary Ginklespew, but Ginklespew shall it be… TC, R who knows Ginkles just holds his manhood, such as it may be, cheap… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

Response:

My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life.

You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there.

Response:

My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there.

Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :) Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. <incessant droning snipped Use of new materials, modern shortcuts, variation, adaptation to local conditions are what tying your own flies is all about.  Only collectors care if a particular fly is tied according to some magical formula using eye of jungle cock and wing of argus.  Most of us only care about catching fish, and we tie flies that hopefully work on our home waters.  Trial and error experimentation is what drives the evolution of working flies, not magic formulas. There was a lengthy thread on rofft earlier this year about why people tie their own flies, and the ability to adapt a pattern over time to be more effective is probably the biggest reason.  It’s why I tie my own caddisses instead of buying the cookie cutter versions from a fly shop. Fly fishing and fly tying is not a hero worship contest.  The best fishermen and tyers I’ve met were not big name pros, but rather regular guys, carpenters, desk jockeys, doctors, computer geeks (gotta love the computer geeks), electricians and plumbers who just love the activity for it’s own sake.  We will tie our flies and go fishing regardless of the cult figures who try to make a living out of our sport. –Stan (tying for the hell of it)

I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here. Let’s mention the Alaskan Mary Ann and Mickey Finn Streamers.  These are specific names of the original streamers.  If you, as a fly tier are going to write an article on the Mickey Finn, the literary world will assume you’re tying the original version per "Bates" recorded version. IF, on the other hand you’re going to write about the Mickey Finn using modern day artificial materials, then in my opinion, you cannot and should not refer to the fly as THE Mickey Fin but rather The Mickey Fin (AM Version).  This means, Artificial Materials Version, a modern day deviation.  It may be better than the original and then again it may not.   The short of it is this.  There is only one original way to tie the Mickey Finn. (as an example) If you deviate from that original version in any way, your fly has to (should) give notice or credit to "any" changes.  It would be the responsible thing to do if and when anyone writes about traditional patterns in the future. George Gehrke

Response:

        (self serving simpering snipped) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. <incessant droning snipped Big freaking deal. Fly fishing and fly tying is not a hero worship contest.  The best fishermen and tyers I’ve met were not big name pros, but rather regular guys, carpenters, desk jockeys, doctors, computer geeks (gotta love the computer geeks), electricians and plumbers who just love the activity for it’s own sake.  We will tie our flies and go fishing regardless of the cult figures who try to make a living out of our sport. –Stan (tying for the hell of it)

        stan, surely you see that the whole point of that pompous blathering was george’s attempt to have us peons recognize that he walks daily with the legends of the sport—and, ultimately, to demonstrate that he, too, is part of the same immortal pantheon.         yeah, i figured you understood. your friend in the old north state wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better. Does NOR make a keyboard? Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. DAMN STRAIGHT!  Let’s get back to the original twelve of Walton…except his were derivative of the _Treatyse_….so let’s get back to those twelve…anybody got a source for "rotty wull" and "redde hakyll?"  But shucks, that won’t work, because the "Dame" was apparently a 15th century Ginkles – a mostly made up, derivative plagiarism, added to sell stuff (in this case, books, and while looking to the _Treatyse_ for contextual historic info is useful, it is what it is…).  What are we to do? Now, don’t misunderstand me No danger of that…SPLORK VANG MU to the nTH power… between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann’s should the Streamer Fly Fishing Public rediscover just how deadly a fly this old mainstay is.  Besides being beautiful just to look at, The Alaskan Mary Ann isn’t known very well today.  If it wasn’t for the fact that the majority of today’s fly fishermen are just as happy to use an artificial substitute to replace the iridescent qualities of Polar Bear Hair, it wouldn’t be a good idea to state this flies praises.  Consider, for instance, that one has to kill one, very large, very wild, very remote living, very uncooperative, animal that wants to do just one thing.  Eat you! Is it any wonder that any of us (self included)should be able to figure something else out jus to tie ONE FLY out of one very unusual hide?  The price is just too, too much. But..but..but you said…so, let’s recap: if you don’t use the original material, it’s "sacrilege" that "pollutes" the sport, but you yourself do it…oh, wait, I see it’s a confession…well, carry on, then… However! I don’t like where this is heading – a confession, but with an excuse… Some of us still have some Polar Bear from over fifty years ago and with us, the original Alaskan Mary Ann still lives, via Bates’ versions taken directly from his wonderful classic.  (Today, new materials replace the need to kill Polar Bears) Sacrilege!  Pollution, I say… Polar Bear is a very difficult fur to duplicate artificially because some of it has a certain gold tinge to it.  I’ve been able to duplicate that in the series of fly tying materials we manufacture. AHA!  It’s not just a confession with an excuse, it’s SPAM! (name-dropping section edited for space) …Bates…Today’s Masters,  such as Dan Byford of Zonker fame… Dave Whitlock and unsung to most…is the fact that Ernest Schwiebert has magic, artistic hands…such as Doug Swisher… Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Joe DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson…hey, I wrote the names so I’m a famous dead baseball legend, too!  Boy, this is cool! Cookie Monster, Big Bird, Oscar, Gink…hey, you’re a Muppet! To become a fly fisherman and to be known "as a fly fisherman" is not a gift that is handed to us.  It requires work and if not years of work, Sorta like "Ginkles," "jehrke," "putz," and one of my personal favs, "Muppethead"… for some, its a lifetime of study and dedication.  If any of us thought we knew it all, most would stop fly fishing for it has become boring for them. So you’ve quit fishing?  Oh, clever – you wrote "most"… My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Um, invented?  Well, OK, to be fair, maybe the combination flyrod, tomato stake, and tiki torch is all yours, but I don’t know if that will get you a place in the history books, Ginkles…I mean, someone will point out the damn things shoulda been burnt anyway, and about all they’re good for is plant-staking, and it sorta knocks the cache of ownership from your "invention"… Most often I’m afield and learning by doing. And you’ll never wizz on an electrified fence again, right? Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, I agree: Nothing gained, nothing ventured…. if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. Have you considered using mothballs in the cloakroom, Ginkles?

Response:

I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better.

Does NOR make a keyboard? Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport.

DAMN STRAIGHT!  Let’s get back to the original twelve of Walton…except his were derivative of the _Treatyse_….so let’s get back to those twelve…anybody got a source for "rotty wull" and "redde hakyll?"  But shucks, that won’t work, because the "Dame" was apparently a 15th century Ginkles – a mostly made up, derivative plagiarism, added to sell stuff (in this case, books, and while looking to the _Treatyse_ for contextual historic info is useful, it is what it is…).  What are we to do? Now, don’t misunderstand me

No danger of that…SPLORK VANG MU to the nTH power… between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann

Question:

Reading G’s nicely written posts about a tough caddis hatch and RW’s response (which I happen to agree with), got me thinking about a very versatile and simple tie I use alot during lower water conditions. I don’t like to change flies. I feel that, most of the time, if you present the right sized fly IN THE WAY THE FISH WANT IT, you will have more success. More success than using the "right" fly presented slightly wrong. This is a debate that has gone on as long as people have been fly fishing and I’m just stating my take on it. I’d rather use my time making changes in presentation than in changing flies. The tie is as simple as can be and is nothing special.  It is very drab to look at and, for this reason, will never be popular. Its strength is its versatility. The tie has a scraggly body of dubbing. I often use an antron mix but I’m not sure this is important. The wing consists of sparsely tied, somewhat short Elk hair. I usually use a light color because it is easier to see. No hackle is used and the head is just the thread from wrapping down the ends of the Elk hair. That’s it. In the low water conditions, when I generally use it, I mainly fish a size 18 but also use it in a 20 and a 16. The fly can be effective during a variety of hatches.  I used a size 18 successfully while I fished for about an hour this AM during a Trico spinner fall. A 20 usually works during midge hatches. The 18 covers a variety of the smaller early and late season Mays and Caddis. Fishing the fly: I usually go through the following sequence in trying to determine how to best fish the fly. Upstream drag free float with the fly on the surface Upstream drag free drift with the fly in the film Upstream "drag free" drift with the saturated fly drifting along in mid to bottom current keeping very light contact with the fly by following the fly with the rod tip and removing all slack as the fly drifts down Dry off the fly Up and across stream, rod tip kept high doing some skittering across the current. The heavier the current the more skittering.   Up and across stream, pull the fly under and retrieve the fly across the current Up and across stream, pull the fly under and do a "traditional" wet   fly drift, mending to allow the fly to sink and allowing the fly        the hang in the current at the end of the drift. Then the fly is    lifted and skittered across the surface The skittering techniques often results in missed strikes or refusals. However, it tells you where a feeding fish is and you can usually take it with one of the other type of drifts.   The above routine works best for actively feeding fish. In water from inches to about three foot deep (depending on current speed), the water can be covered from top to bottom with no terminal tackle changes. Willi

Response:

Dry off the fly

What do you do here – blow on it, use some drying pad, shake it in dessicant….? Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Dry off the fly What do you do here – blow on it, use some drying pad, shake it in dessicant….?

Whatever.  I usually just use my shirt. Willi

Response:

Jeffnc I usually false cast it two or three times, then blow on it and shake it in desiccant powder and re coat it with floatant.  If that doesn’t work I replace it. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dry off the fly What do you do here – blow on it, use some drying pad, shake it in dessicant….? Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I printed this post and will study it.  I’ve always read willi’s posts, but now that i have fished with the guy….  i’ll memorize them. That post really can help speed up the learning curve.  Great Stuff Willi. The western clavesters don’t call him the Troutmaster for nothing, and he’s a very modest and super friendly person to boot. Hmmmm…. changing presentations.  I was the guy in montana constantly changing flies and lead, now i’ll deliberately try different presentations beforehand. bruiser Before you buy.

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Willi: I am trying to visualize this fly. Is it like an elk-hair caddis, with the wing tied trude style, no hackle?? Tim Lysyk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – its versatility. The tie has a scraggly body of dubbing. I often use an antron mix but I’m not sure this is important. The wing consists of sparsely tied, somewhat short Elk hair. I usually use a light color because it is easier to see. No hackle is used and the head is just the

Response:

Question:

Ah yes Tony, many years ago in another life in England, my newly acquired

girl friend’s parents graciously invited me to stay the weekend at their place (I was on a 3 day pass from Brize-Norton RAF Station) and somehow I managed to use the word ‘bugger’ not once, but several times in a conversation at the dinner table.  Things were a little awkward for awhile *after* she explained to me what that meant.  Hey, I didn’t know!  :-) Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET. Ouch, know the feeling only too well, and it is a two way street – like the time I was on a business trip to a company in Rascine Wisconsin about 25 years ago,and asked one of the secretaries for a ‘rubber’. When she finally calmed down, and her face returned to something approaching its usual colour, we finally worked out that I needed an eraser…..but then… she was a very good looking you lady… I can but dream:-) She is a funny old language this English. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

Best one I ever had I got from an Army surplus……go for all zippers and no velcro….john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m looking for a fanny pack to put my fly fishing Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I’m looking for a fanny pack to put my fly fishing

Love my Sage. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "Lie? Me? Never! No,no no, the truth is far too much fun!" – Captain Hook

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I’m looking for a fanny pack to put my fly fishing gear Best one I ever had I got from an Army surplus……go for all zippers and no velcro….john

What is wrong with velcro?  It cannot rust or jam like a zipper and is easier to replace if worn. — |        Carlsbad Springs, Ottawa, Canada        |

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I love Velcro, I used it on my rod socks, boots, fly fishing vest and a tent.  My wife started calling me Mr. Velcro. Old Fart

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a fanny pack to put my fly fishing gear Best one I ever had I got from an Army surplus……go for all zippers and no velcro….john What is wrong with velcro?  It cannot rust or jam like a zipper and is easier to replace if worn. — |        Carlsbad Springs, Ottawa, Canada        |

Response:

If one wishes to find out, "what is wrong with Velcro," one need only place there car keys in a pocket secured by Velcro. I went fishin’ with a friend not long ago who lost the keys to his truck (keys in a pocket secured by Velcro) while we were on the stream.  The big problem was that we were fishin’ downstream to where we had parked his truck.  Long story made short.  We had to hike 3 1/2 miles up a mountain road to the main road, then it was another 5 miles straight up the mountain to my truck. Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a fanny pack to put my fly fishing gear Best one I ever had I got from an Army surplus……go for all zippers and no velcro….john What is wrong with velcro?  It cannot rust or jam like a zipper and is easier to replace if worn. — |        Carlsbad Springs, Ottawa, Canada        |

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ah yes Tony, many years ago in another life in England, my newly acquired girl friend’s parents graciously invited me to stay the weekend at their place (I was on a 3 day pass from Brize-Norton RAF Station) and somehow I managed to use the word ‘bugger’ not once, but several times in a conversation at the dinner table.  Things were a little awkward for awhile *after* she explained to me what that meant.  Hey, I didn’t know!  :-) Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET. Ouch, know the feeling only too well, and it is a two way street – like the time I was on a business trip to a company in Rascine Wisconsin about 25 years ago,and asked one of the secretaries for a ‘rubber’. When she finally calmed down, and her face returned to something approaching its usual colour, we finally worked out that I needed an eraser…..but then… she was a very good looking you lady… I can but dream:-) She is a funny old language this English. — Tony Bishop New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Reminds me of the time one of my brother’s British teachers spyed a cigarette butt on the classroom floor and instructed him to "Pickup the Fag":):) Much Lloyd Heilbrunn

Response:

Reminds me of the time one of my brother’s British teachers spyed a cigarette butt on the classroom floor and instructed him to "Pickup the Fag":):) Much Lloyd Heilbrunn

Lloyd,    I am a little confused too, what did the British Teacher do to the cigarette butt?  :-) Ernie

Response:

Yup…velcro should never leave the trail…….john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If one wishes to find out, "what is wrong with Velcro," one need only place there car keys in a pocket secured by Velcro. I went fishin’ with a friend not long ago who lost the keys to his truck (keys in a pocket secured by Velcro) while we were on the stream.  The big problem was that we were fishin’ downstream to where we had parked his truck.  Long story made short.  We had to hike 3 1/2 miles up a mountain road to the main road, then it was another 5 miles straight up the mountain to my truck. Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!** I’m looking for a fanny pack to put my fly fishing gear Best one I ever had I got from an Army surplus……go for all zippers and no velcro….john What is wrong with velcro?  It cannot rust or jam like a zipper and is easier to replace if worn. — |        Carlsbad Springs, Ottawa, Canada        |

Response:

Americans can get some very funny looks in many parts of the world, including down under, when they start talking about their fannies and fanny packs. Your fanny down here is a whole different territory, and only women have them:-) — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

Ah yes Tony, many years ago in another life in England, my newly acquired girl friend’s parents graciously invited me to stay the weekend at their place (I was on a 3 day pass from Brize-Norton RAF Station) and somehow I managed to use the word ‘bugger’ not once, but several times in a conversation at the dinner table.  Things were a little awkward for awhile *after* she explained to me what that meant.  Hey, I didn’t know!  :-) Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Americans can get some very funny looks in many parts of the world, including down under, when they start talking about their fannies and fanny packs. Your fanny down here is a whole different territory, and only women have them:-) — Tony Bishop New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

I’m looking for a fanny pack to put my fly fishing Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

suggestions? Yes, I have a suggestion. When you post, write in complete sentences. I suppose one could also (pardon the double pun) have said with toungue in cheek, "depends on how big of a fanny you have to pack….." ——- But (chuckle again) seriously; a friend of mine simply took an old fly-fishing vest and cut off the bottom front pockets. He then reseamed and stitched the edges and had a short vest for float-tubing, and a waist belt/fanny pack for other days.  Worked great, and was very convenient. Hope that helps. CB CB

Response:

I’m looking for a fanny pack to put my fly fishing

I’ve seen some "fishing" fanny packs but they looked like more trouble than they’re worth.  I  just a have a cheap, ordinary fanny pack with a fleece patch, tippet, and zingers clipped on and stuffed full.  I use small fly boxes that will fit in a shirt pocket so the stuff I’m using usually migrates from the fanny pack to my pockets.  It stays in the truck along with old hip waders and a mangy hat for those "spontaneous" fishing trips. HTH Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Haven’t used a vest in years! I bought a Fanny Pack at the Phoenix Boat Show several years ago ($19.95 would you believe!).  It has one large pocket and two smaller ones on each side.  The two side pockets have two smaller pockets on the outside.  My tippet material fits perfect in these outside pockets.  My reel and spare spools fit in one side pocket and my other gear (Lead, Strike indicators, spare leaders, etc.) fit in the other.  The large pocket in back holds all he fly boxes I could ever need.  Works great! If Float tubing or wading deep, I wear it bandalero style. — Bill Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a fanny pack to put my fly fishing Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Question:

Can someone direct me to a good web site for information on fishing the many trout streams in PA and NY states?  Thanks.

Response:

Can someone direct me to a good web site for information on fishing the many trout streams in PA and NY states?  Thanks.

Steve, This site has some good info and up to date stream reports posted by anglers. http://www.paflyfish.easetech.com/ Tim

Response:

Can someone direct me to a good web site for information on fishing the many trout streams in PA and NY states?  Thanks.

Steve My site uner ‘Links’ – ‘Destinations’ has about ten links to PA, ME, and VT flyfishing information sites. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

Response:

Question:

Aye Chris Richer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So lets do it, henceforth no replies to obvious political rants or other similar inflammatory trolls. All agreed say "aye". This is not moderation or control, just good sense and self defence. You are right, otherwise ROFF will be ruined. Mike Connor

Response:

sniped

Thanks for the spelling lesson. At some point you agreed that you were guilty of the very act that you are trying to correct. Yes, in other words you saw the shit, and you went up to it and firmly planted your two feet right in the middle. Yes, am I correct here? I too, saw the same shit, and it had a foul smell, so I walked around it and now it’s on your boots and not mine. It is strange how we choose our pathways in life. I’m not perfect mind you. This is the third winter that I’ve hung here and every winter it is the same thing. Tempers start getting hot and the rhetoric gets heated on one or more issues. You and I are blessed the we have mild winters compared to some of the others in the group. Even the lack of real sunshine can have a dreary effect on the soul. The best way to avoid a fight is not to be there in the first. I choose to have some distance. At least my boots stay cleaner for longer periods. Well, did my spelling improve?   — Doug Knight                            metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

Response:

        i have always thought that the only subjects that should truly be off limits on roff are politics and religion.  when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.  egos go unchecked as the power to say what you please as often as you wish is unlimited by the power of personal confrontation.  in short, if we are to continue to enjoy the wonders of this medium and, especially, of this most excellent group of posters here at roff, i regretfully believe that we should make an effort at self-moderation.  i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.         can we do this? wayno

Response:

Please, Mr. Harrison, restrain yourself. Such commentary, though warranted, accurate, and constructive, has a downside. The applause that you keep commanding of us keeps our hands too busy to type and keeps waking the baby! — Andy "Barely Older than Gink" Engle Charlotte, NC

Response:

Please, Mr. Harrison, restrain yourself. Such commentary, though warranted, accurate, and constructive, has a downside. The applause that you keep commanding of us keeps our hands too busy to type and keeps waking the baby! — Andy "Barely Older than Gink" Engle Charlotte, NC

  It must be the water here in NC. Good stuff. Andy, where do you fish? If you’re ever up this way….get in touch. –Walt

Response:

HEAR HEAR! Wayne To fish is human…To release divine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    i have always thought that the only subjects that should truly be off limits on roff are politics and religion.  when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.  egos go unchecked as the power to say what you please as often as you wish is unlimited by the power of personal confrontation.  in short, if we are to continue to enjoy the wonders of this medium and, especially, of this most excellent group of posters here at roff, i regretfully believe that we should make an effort at self-moderation.  i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.    can we do this? wayno

Response:

snip< when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.

This is truly one of the shortcomings of the written word.   A good natured jibe at a fellow fisherman across a campfire can be a subject of great mirth and camraderie; but as we’ve seen in this medium, the same remark in lifeless print can be a grievous insult.   We all would do well to twice read what we’ve written before posting it. more good stuff snipped< i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose. can we do this?

Wayno is right on here.   We all have genuine personal opinions on social and political issues which directly influence our fly fishing lives, and I agree that these subjects are valid topics of discussion here.   Trolling for an argument, however, has been breeding a level of dishonesty here that I too have found disturbing.   We have no faces here, only our opinions and advice.   If one trolls for a response by posting opinions that do not truly represent who they are, how are we to get to know them?   How are we to trust their opinions on other subjects?   Trolling is dishonest and it breeds mistrust.   It lowers my estimation of the perpetrator.   If you have an opinion, I’d love to hear it and discuss it with you, but don’t yank my chain and waste my time for your own amusement. Many posters here seem to know others personally.  Most of us, however, do not have that honor, and must get to know you through what you post.   Wayno is right that we waste a lot of energy ranting & trolling.   This NG, more than any other I’ve read, seems to be populated by real people, my kind of people, people I wouldn’t mind sharing a bottle with.   We spend too muct time wasting that. Joe

Response:

Please, Mr. Harrison, restrain yourself. Such commentary, though warranted, accurate, and constructive, has a downside. The applause that you keep commanding of us keeps our hands too busy to type and keeps waking the baby! — Andy "Barely Older than Gink" Engle Charlotte, NC

Yep.  Look at it this way:  if you were in your favorite flyfishing shop, standing around with about 10 folks, what topics would you want to bullship about, and how would talk about those topics.  I sure as hell wouldn’t bring up politics or religion, and if I was discussing logging’s impact on the fishery  I wouldn’t be suggesting that we go out and spike some trees for an afternoon’s entertainment. Mark Faulkner

Response:

i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.    can we do this?

I doubt it.  There will always be disagreements, we just have to learn how to discuss such topics in a non face-to-face medium without turning the issue into personal attacks.  There are such vast differences between posters here in age, education level, location, work, background that thinking that you can stop disagreements is not realistic.   Later,      - Ken

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose. can we do this? I doubt it.  There will always be disagreements, we just have to learn how to discuss such topics in a non face-to-face medium without turning the issue into personal attacks.  There are such vast differences between posters here in age, education level, location, work, background that thinking that you can stop disagreements is not realistic. Later,     – Ken

    actually, kj, that’s not my point.  i know we can’t avoid "disagreements"; in fact, "disagreements", including heated ones, can be quite entertaining and educational.  it’s just that there are a very few (again, politics and religion, specifically) that seem to engender vicious diatribes, or quickly dissolve into mindless personal quibbles.  therefore, i propose to simply not create or contribute to threads containing subject matter of this nature. wayno

Response:

Joe writes replying to Wayno: <<Wayno is right on here.   We all have genuine personal opinions on social and political issues which directly influence our fly fishing lives, and I agree that these subjects are valid topics of discussion here.   Trolling for an argument, however, has been breeding a level of dishonesty here that (more good stuff snipped) I agree.  I could never understand why someone would troll.  Hell, it sure ain’t fly fishing.  To "pull someones chain", cause them embarass- ment because they sincerely answered a "troll", is not the sign of a true sportsman.  I have more than contributed my fair share of political rhetoric on these pages, but I don’t think I have ever trolled. Sitting around a campfire teasing and trolling is a lot different than doing it online. Dave LaCourse

Response:

NO MORE WHINING, PLEASE!    (hehe) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    i have always thought that the only subjects that should truly be off limits on roff are politics and religion.  when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.  egos go unchecked as the power to say what you please as often as you wish is unlimited by the power of personal confrontation.  in short, if we are to continue to enjoy the wonders of this medium and, especially, of this most excellent group of posters here at roff, i regretfully believe that we should make an effort at self-moderation.  i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.    can we do this? wayno

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         i have always thought that the only subjects that should truly be off limits on roff are politics and religion.  when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.  egos go unchecked as the power to say what you please as often as you wish is unlimited by the power of personal confrontation.  in short, if we are to continue to enjoy the wonders of this medium and, especially, of this most excellent group of posters here at roff, i regretfully believe that we should make an effort at self-moderation.  i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.         can we do this? wayno

refrain from doing so any more. dumb bastards. George ‘kill the world for a job: Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

 This is truly one of the shortcomings of the written word.   A good natured jibe at a fellow fisherman across a campfire can be a subject of great mirth and camraderie; but as we’ve seen in this medium, the same remark in lifeless print can be a grievous insult.   We all would do well to twice read what we’ve written before posting it.

Response:

Yep.  Look at it this way:  if you were in your favorite flyfishing shop, standing around with about 10 folks, what topics would you want to bullship about, and how would talk about those topics.  I sure as hell wouldn’t bring up politics or religion, and if I was discussing logging’s impact on the fishery  I wouldn’t be suggesting that we go out and spike some trees for an afternoon’s entertainment. Mark Faulkner

guessing and our remaining Virgin Forests would be saved for the children of the future?  We are past reality regarding when forests are endangered.  It is now time to stop the carnage.  What does it take to do it?  Trees without spikes for life in them? New bumper sticker:  "TREES!  Spiked for life!" not – "Chainsaw Employment Forever" —

Question:

How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                                 Bob

Hi Bob For my casting style I prefer the the Sage RPL. To me the Loomis feels a bit non responsive compared to the Sage — the Loomis feels dead and the Sage feels alive putting it another way. I’m sure there are those who disagree but that’s why there are different rod manufacturers. Any way, Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                                 Bob

Response:

How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                            Bob

Hello Bob         I can’t speak for the RPL. I can give you my opinion on the IMX. I had a 10′ IMX made for me recently.  It has action that is a little on the stiff side of medium. IMHO it is the best rod I have ever cast a line with. It takes less wrist effort to cast 50′ of line than it does to stir my coffee in the morning         Did have a chance to try a friends Sage on the weekend. It was not an RPL though. It was nice enough, but I still prefer mine. Take Care and Smash Barbs Joel Sampson Micro Computer Co-ordinator Computer Services Saint Mary’s University 923 Robie Street Halifax, Nova Scotia (p) (902) 420-5880 (f) (902) 496-8103

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking to buy an IMX be aware that Loomis no longer makes this blank.  It has been replaced by the GL4.  I was told (can anyone out there confirm?) that the reason they ditched the IMX was because of the number of breakages that model line had. One other thing: Sage does offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Loomis does not.  Someone that I sold a Loomis blank to recently told me it cost him $40 to get the tip section replaced, in addition to the shipping costs.  I’ve broken two Sage rods in the last 3 years, and both times they charged me only for shipping. How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                               Bob

Hi Bob I blew up three IMX rods, one while casting and two while fighting fish. I don’t know if I was just unlucky or not but was given a Sage to try in that same time frame and have not fished a Loomis since. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

If you’re looking to buy an IMX be aware that Loomis no longer makes this blank.  It has been replaced by the GL4.  I was told (can anyone out there confirm?) that the reason they ditched the IMX was because of the number of breakages that model line had. One other thing: Sage does offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Loomis does not.  Someone that I sold a Loomis blank to recently told me it cost him $40 to get the tip section replaced, in addition to the shipping costs.  I’ve broken two Sage rods in the last 3 years, and both times they charged me only for shipping. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                            Bob

Response:

Easy. One has a lifetime,unconditional warranty, the other spends gazillions on beautiful magazine ads instead.

Response:

  I have several Loomis rods.  My first IMX, a 6# purchased shortly after they were released, broke repeatedly and was replaced without charge other than my shipping it back to them.  It took three trys but has now been solid for three years.   I believe the top of the line is now the GMX (if I have my alphabet straight).  It has a softer tip than the older IMX and is a very sweet rod in the four piece #4 and #6 sizes.   Most Loomis rods have a dull gray finish.  I happen to like the look, but the important question is whether it’s less visable to the trout when waved over the water on a sunny day. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

Response:

: Easy. One has a lifetime,unconditional warranty, the other spends : gazillions on beautiful magazine ads instead. I don’t know about this… The Sage posters are among the prettiest photos of fly fishing I have seen.  Must cost a pretty big coin. And what’s the real deal on those posters… just about every fly shop I’ve visited in the West claims the owner is the fisherman in the photo on the wall. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: Easy. One has a lifetime,unconditional warranty, the other spends : gazillions on beautiful magazine ads instead. I don’t know about this… The Sage posters are among the prettiest photos of fly fishing I have seen.  Must cost a pretty big coin.

The Sage ads usually have some real nice photos as do the Winston ads.  Personally, I like the Scott "lifting power" ad with the jet skier and the one with the guy practicing his flycasting from atop a building in Manhatten. John Fereira

Response:

If you’re looking to buy an IMX be aware that Loomis no longer makes this blank.  It has been replaced by the GL4.  I was told (can anyone out there confirm?) that the reason they ditched the IMX was because of the number of breakages that model line had. One other thing: Sage does offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Loomis does not.  Someone that I sold a Loomis blank to recently told me it cost him $40 to get the tip section replaced, in addition to the shipping costs.  I’ve broken two Sage rods in the last 3 years, and both times they charged me only for shipping.

Catch, How’d you break your Sages? I also had heard of very high breakage rates but that was years ago when several manufacturers, of which Loomis was one, were racing to gain market share by bringing out rods made with new materials. I was under the impression that the bulk of their problems had been solved although over the years I have talked to only one angler astream using Loomis (I live in the east where they have a smaller presence) and he fished it as if it was made of crystal instead of graphite because of a previous fishing breakage and the feeling after talking to Loomis that they would not replace it again. It did not appear to be a very enjoyable fishing experience for him. The original post related to casting rather than durability and from comparative reviews I have seen the Loomis does offer a different casting experience due to its stiffness. I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of both? I have a pre-new materials war Sage closet rod (or more charitably – a nymphing rod) and finances permitting, am interested in upgrading it to a stream rod but would like to hear about the casting virtues and vices of the newer rods. Thanks Tim

Response:

Among other rods, I own a Loomis 10′ 6wt IMX and a Sage 9′6" RPL 6wt. These are my steelheading rods. The Loomis just happens to fit my casting style better than the Sage, but the Sage (which I built from a blem blank) was needed as a backup since the Loomis was very brittle and I broke it more times than I like to admit.   Except for one time when I broke it by accidentally hitting a branch with the tip while casting and one time catching it in the door to my PU canopy, all the other breaks seemed to be the result of overstressing the rod during casting. Regardless of the reason, which I always disclosed, Loomis always replaced the rod with no questions asked and at no cost – even shipping. The last time it broke,the turn around time was only three days. I think that the last one they sent me is a slightly different composition, not that it casts any differently, but it has endured 2 1/2 years of heavy fishing without breaking ( a new personal record ). Most knowledgeable casters who have watched me cast ( for steelhead on big waters) tell me that my style seems to overstress the rod. Bob Weinberger – La Grande, OR —

Response:

Among other rods, I own a Loomis 10′ 6wt IMX and a Sage 9′6" RPL 6wt. These are my steelheading rods. The Loomis just happens to fit my casting style better than the Sage, but the Sage (which I built from a blem blank) was needed as a backup since the Loomis was very brittle and I broke it more times than I like to admit. Bob Weinberger – La Grande, OR —

I have a 9′6" 6 wgt RPL which has seen better years.  After two sets of guides and reworking of the handle, I decided that it was time to build a new one.  To my great regret, I discovered that they no longer make the 9′6" RPL blank.  The RPL-X is vile.   I gnash my teeth… This is a great steelhead and searun rod.  Good float tubing rod as well. Too bad you can’t get one anymore.

Response:

I have a 3 wt IMX and a 5 wt Sage RPL. Although I grab the Sage first when going to the stream, I use the IMX often enough to like it as a distance casting rod although I use a 4 wt line. It dosen’t have the line speed that the RPL has but it takes very little effort to cast. On a 2+ day trip I take both but I only use the 3 wt for dry fly. If push came to shove, it would be the Sage. — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking to buy an IMX be aware that Loomis no longer makes this blank.  It has been replaced by the GL4.  I was told (can anyone out there confirm?) that the reason they ditched the IMX was because of the number of breakages that model line had. One other thing: Sage does offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Loomis does not.  Someone that I sold a Loomis blank to recently told me it cost him $40 to get the tip section replaced, in addition to the shipping costs.  I’ve broken two Sage rods in the last 3 years, and both times they charged me only for shipping. Catch, How’d you break your Sages? I also had heard of very high breakage rates but that was years ago when several manufacturers, of which Loomis was one, were racing to gain market share by bringing out rods made with new materials. I was under the impression that the bulk of their problems had been solved although over the years I have talked to only one angler astream using Loomis (I live in the east where they have a smaller presence) and he fished it as if it was made of crystal instead of graphite because of a previous fishing breakage and the feeling after talking to Loomis that they would not replace it again. It did not appear to be a very enjoyable fishing experience for him. The original post related to casting rather than durability and from comparative reviews I have seen the Loomis does offer a different casting experience due to its stiffness. I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of both? I have a pre-new materials war Sage closet rod (or more charitably – a nymphing rod) and finances permitting, am interested in upgrading it to a stream rod but would like to hear about the casting virtues and vices of the newer rods. Thanks Tim

Response:

I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of both? I have

I can’t comment on the IMX.  My old beat-up RPL is great for shooting line half way accross a lake, but when it comes to laying down a gentle cast to spooky fish in shallow water, forget it.  The harder I try to be delicate, the harder it slaps the water.  Still, I like the rod. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

<<The harder I try to be delicate, the harder it slaps the water. The reason it slaps the water is because you are putting the power in too late.  Try pushing your thumb towards something on the far bank when you cast, so that the whole thing turns over before it touches down.  I also suspect you are overpowering the rod.  Get your timing right and you should be able to throw the whole flyline without hearing the rod "swish" at all. Hope this helps. William Daniel

Response:

<<I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of

both? You’ve picked the 2 best brands, IMO.  The old RPL’s are not as quick as the Loomis IMX, but these are being phased out as the new RPL+ rods come in – these are very fast, if that’s what you are after.  Frankly you pays your money and takes your choice.  I go for the Sages myself. William Daniel

Response:

<<I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of

both? Perhaps a better route would be for you to go cast the models that are suited for your needs and decide for yourself. I tried a Sage RPL for a 4 when they first came out. Caught a 7-1/2 lb rainbow on a #22 h.e. emerger on it. Sent the rod back because I didn’t care for it’s casting capabilities in close (under 30 ft). Ordered a Scott and have never looked back. Casts way better in close and is just fine for distance. Does that make the Scott better? Of course not. It’s better for me and the way I cast. Suggest you find a shop that carries the rods you’re interested in, describe your needs.  I suspect they will let you try out the rods. If the owner is really knowledgeable, stocks a variety of rods, and is a good listener (Harry Murray of Murray’s Fly Shop in Edinburgh, Va comes to mind.), it will be a short process. As for cost be sensible. If you make the right choice, you’ll be fishing it for many many years. A few bucks more for the rod you like could be well worth it over a decade or two or three. If you make the wrong one, it really doesn’t matter what the rod cost. Good luck. BP

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Question:

To all interested;      I posted about a new web page that I had created, on flyfishing, but forgot to give the address.  No one said you had to be bright to work with a computer but it sometimes help.  So here is the address "http://infoave.net/~bptrav1" it might be a liitle easier to find this way.  The page is new so any suggestions will be appreciated.  In the near future I am going to make this sight into an online flyfishing magezine with help,how to and advice for the flyfishing advocates out there.  So please take a look and E-mail me any suggestions or something you would like to post on the page.                               Thanks                               Ben Powell

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Can anyone give me some advice on what rivers to hit while in Jackson hole?  I’m going to drive through the area on my way to Seattle and i would like to spend a day fishing.  I have never beenm, hell i have never been to Wyoming, so if anyone can help me out i would really appreciate it. o’ yeah make it quick, cause im moving in about 2 to 3 days. Jeremy Tittle

If you want to drift fish with guide stay away from Snake, do the S. Fork or go over to Henry’s Ford in Idaho. If wade fishing you can do lots of area’s but the water conditions (clarity) and swiftness dictates, this time of year it should be muddy from runoff. You might want to push on and try the Gallatin in the park outside of W. Yellowstone.

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Can anyone give me some advice on what rivers to hit while in Jackson hole?  I’m going to drive through the area on my way to Seattle and i would like to spend a day fishing.  I have never beenm, hell i have never been to Wyoming, so if anyone can help me out i would really appreciate it. o’ yeah make it quick, cause im moving in about 2 to 3 days. Jeremy Tittle

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Can anyone give me some advice on what rivers to hit while in Jackson hole?

Hi Jeremy, If a day is all you have I suggest fishing the Snake river below the dam on Jackson Lake. There is a lot of water to cover and should provide some excellent fishing. Attractor patterns (Humpies, Wulff, EHC etc), nymphs like GRHE, and of course an assortment of Bead Headed whatevers (GRHE, Prince, etc.). Have a good trip.  Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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The annual N. California fly fishing conclave is coming up at the end of September.  Three days of tying speakers and displays.  Gary LaFontaine is the headline speaker, along with Lani Waller, Mel Krieger and lots of others.  Its held at the N. Lake Tahoe convention center in Kings Beach on the North shore of Lake Tahoe.  There is also good fishing in the area at this time of year.  The event is sponsored by the Northern California Council, Federation of Fly Fishers.  Contact Dave Duffy, (209)-824-2346 for details.

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(DaveF17965) writes:

Is there any similar event held in Southern California?

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I’m only a few days from heading up to Yellowstone and southern Montana type of flys might work best?  I suppose that some elk hair caddis might be good.    thanks,            drex

I could help more if you had mentioned which areas of which rivers you plan to fish?  However, this time of year I never go to the Yellowstone area without flys for these hatches:         1. Baetis (Small blue wing olives):             – nymph ( size 18 Pheasant tails)         – emerger (size 18 & 20 RS2’s) usually fished as a nymph            before the hatch.         – Renee Harrop no hackles (in sizes 18 & 20)         – Adams (without wing)         2. Trico’s (females black size 20 to 22, Males olive size 20):         – Spinner ( blue dun wings) split tail and I add a  third             parachute wing so I can see the bloody things.  White             parachute wing for days).  When the fish are on trico             spinners don’t even bother fishing anything else.         –  Dun: dun hackles body colors above don’t bother with a              wing unless you need it to see it.  I clip the hackles to get             a lower float and I usually carry parachute versions.  I              don’t find the duns to be as inportant as the spinners.             Note the same flys work for baetis duns and Trico males,              i.e. olive no hackles and size twenty adams w/o wings.         – Dun

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I’m only a few days from heading up to Yellowstone and southern Montana for a glorious week of fly fishing.  A few months ago, when I was planning this trip, I sent out requests for places to fish up there.  If there are any others that would like to share their knowledge of the area, I would certainly appreciate it.  My current plans are pretty loose, but we intend to fly into Jackson Hole(the one fly competition is going on there), and then drive up to Yellowstone.  Then we’ll make a big loop that will include West Yellowstone, up to Bozeman, across to Livingston, and then back down into Yellowstone.  Does anyone have advice on fishing this time of year and what type of flys might work best?  I suppose that some elk hair caddis might be good.         thanks,                 drex

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