Question:

I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions.   I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something. Scott

Response:

I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions.   I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something. Scott

        why not just post all their pictures, with names, family member’s names, and school lunch schedule.  that ought to make *somebody* happy…. wayno

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions.  I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something. Scott      why not just post all their pictures, with names, family member’s names, and school lunch schedule.  that ought to make *somebody* happy…. wayno

It’s a good thing my new Cabela’s clearance moleskin shirt sheds nasally- ejected coffee like water off a duck’s ass, or I would be really pissed right now   Scott

Response:

A group outing makes the most sense.  Contact your local Scout office and volunteer.  Definitely, if there’s a Scout camp nearby that would be an ideal opportunity because they are heavy on merit badges during camp.  On the off chance that they already offer the program at camp, remember that not all the boys can make it to camp, so it would be an excellent gesture to offer a separate program. You can get some good info here: http://www.bsaflyfishing.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions. I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something. Scott

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A group outing makes the most sense.  Contact your local Scout office and volunteer.  Definitely, if there’s a Scout camp nearby that would be an ideal opportunity because they are heavy on merit badges during camp.  On the off chance that they already offer the program at camp, remember that not all the boys can make it to camp, so it would be an excellent gesture to offer a separate program. You can get some good info here: http://www.bsaflyfishing.com/ I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions. I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something. Scott

Thanks, Stan.  I’ll let you know what we come up with. Scott

Response:

I served my term as assistant scoutmaster and have helped do this before there was a flyfishing badge.  It was just a fishing badge at the time and three of us did it for the scouts in our sons troop and one other. Call the local counsel (there on the web) and get a list of the troops near you.  They will have the names and phone numbers of the troop Scoutmasters.  Call the troop leaders and tell them what you are willing to do.  They will be all over you.  They are always looking for and welcome help. The scouts have booklets that detail the steps for earning every merit badge.  The emphasis is to have the scouts do all the work; your role is to be teacher and advisor. You can run the program for the whole troop or for just a couple of boys, depends on how many are interested. It’s the boys who decide if they want to get the badge. If your names on the list as an advisor some boys will seek you out. Some of the things we did were:  1.) Gave hands on demos on fly tying at one of their regular meetings.  We started using a parachute cord and an 8/0 hook and then let them go with the six vices and various materials we brought. They all managed to tie a couple of flies.  2.) Depending on where they meet you can bring in some rods and give casting instructions. 3.) You can let them come to your house and work at your bench and tie a few flies. .  You have to have at least two boys there at a time, no one on one instruction is allowe.  Let them see you stuff, explain how it works and maybe cast some in your back yard.  This is the point where some of them become lifetime flyfishers.  4.) You take them on an outing.  This part may educate you as much as them.  Pick a spot that safe and has catchable fish.  I wouldn’t count on a lake at a Boy Scout Camp having any cacheable fish. This is where you will need more help.  Get more volunteers for the trip one on one instruction is a big help here.    Twenty wild kids on a river with fly rods, wading, throwing rocks, and just being boys. It’s a great experience.  I cannot recommend it enough. .     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions.   I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something. Scott

Response:

The scouts have booklets that detail the steps for earning every merit badge.

Apparently it will cost $15,000 to print up all the booklets and the scouts are currently seeking donations to defray that cost. Mu

Response:

I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions. I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something.

There’s one on the White river in central WI.  Great hex hatch too.  Don’t know about a dozen or so scouts flailing the water in the dark though. Wolfgang

Response:

Don’t know about a dozen or so scouts flailing the water in the dark though.

A noble quest, but I don’t think I’d wanna be the responsible party that hands them a fish hook or anything else that could potentially put me on the defendent end of a PI suit when somebody sticks a hook in his eye.   Maybe a dozen pairs of cheap safety glasses would be a good investment. Call me paranoid, Joe F.

Response:

A noble quest, but I don’t think I’d wanna be the responsible party that hands them a fish hook or anything else that could potentially put me on the defendent end of a PI suit when somebody sticks a hook in his eye.   Maybe a dozen pairs of cheap safety glasses would be a good investment. Call me paranoid, Joe F.

Both TU and the Scouts have mechanisms to deal with insurance issues.   Safetly glasses should be mandatory.  I won’t cast without them.  I also walk around with a whistle in my vest, but I’m paranoid. Scott

Response:

Wiscoy Creek runs right through Camp Sam Wood right near Pike, NY.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions. I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something. Scott

Response:

Both TU and the Scouts have mechanisms to deal with insurance issues. Safetly glasses should be mandatory.  I won’t cast without them.  I also walk around with a whistle in my vest, but I’m paranoid.

It’s been my limited experience that should anything unfortunate happen, TU, BSA, the rodmaker, the hook manufacturer, and you personally will get named in a suit.   Sure, you’d probably get out of any liability, but it’ll still cost a few shiny nickles in legal fees.   Lawsuits are a bitch for the innocent.   Didn’t mean to get so serious about it, but being married to a (former) property/casualty insurance agent will do that to you.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wiscoy Creek runs right through Camp Sam Wood right near Pike, NY. I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions. I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something. Scott

Thanks.  There’s also a pretty nice campground right on the Eastkoy that might be suitable.  Not many tent spots, though.  Seems taken up by permanent RVs Scott

Response:

I noticed that the Boy Scouts have started a FF Merit Badge, and I see an opportunity for our TU Chapter to do a little community outreach. Before I start asking local BSA people about how we can help, I was hoping that maybe some ROFFers involved with the Boy Scouts can offer suggestions.   I was thinking about maybe a group outing.  Maybe there’s a Boy Scout Camp with some good water on it, or something. Scott

well, I don’t know about good water compared to other areas, but in NJ there’s the Big Flat Brook that goes through Stokes State Forest which has an adjacent Boy Scout Camp. The BFB is known for decent trout FFing. Rob

Response:

Question:

As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

Hi Fly2bass, I never really thought about it since I do not use loop connectors, except for line to leader.  But does this mean that the braided leader systems are not a good thing?  This is the only case where I have seen loop to loop connection for the leader to tippet. — Fritz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

<Rant on – I believe the origninator of this thread was Greg Wood.  Greg, I flat cannot believe that a looped tippet connection has ANY negative effect on presentation, dry fly or otherwise.  This is based on a fair amount of experience with these connections.  I do hope you try the looped system and report here what you conclude from the experiment.  I would consider THAT useful information.  That kind of information is what I read this newsgroup for.  Don’t worry about the gushing negativity based on heresy. – Rant off Hi Fitz, I haven’t tried the Orvis system yet because I can’t see what advantage the Orvis system might offer over more conventional setups.  Still, I plan to give em a try next time I place an order with Orvis, simply because I am curious. Always looking for a better way to do things.  Does anyone out there who has actually tried the Ovis leader system like it?  If not, Why? You would see more examples of loop-to-loop rigging if you read the saltwater literature or talked to people that fish the salt.  Lefty Kreh is the most widely known advocate of loop connections that I can name. I hesitate to use his name because last time I said "Lefty does it " I drew hostile fire.   I don’t know how widespread the practice is but it does have a following. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Fly2bass, I never really thought about it since I do not use loop connectors, except for line to leader.  But does this mean that the braided leader systems are not a good thing?  This is the only case where I have seen loop to loop connection for the leader to tippet. — Fritz As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

John A Schroeder writes:

(snip) I haven’t tried the Orvis system yet because I can’t see what advantage the Orvis system might offer over more conventional setups.  Still, I plan to give em a try next time I place an order with Orvis, simply because I am curious. Always looking for a better way to do things.  Does anyone out there who has actually tried the Ovis leader system like it?  If not, Why?

I have used the braided loop on the line to a perfection loop on the leader, and it certainly didn’t stop me from catching fish.  But, if the braided loop is put on incorrectly, it could "hinge".  This happeded to me once and I simply snipped it off and put a new one on – worked fine after that.   I also use a nail knot connection on my lighter weight rods and do not notice a difference.   I think that the biggest objection to the loop to loop is that Orvis is known for putting the loop on the fly line. Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

Response:

Question:

<Ahem Not to mention what else might be a "red light" special…considering the idea of a "red light district"….. Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Trish,  the other Kathy here (the horsey one I think!) Glad to hear about your printer victory!  I had to laugh though cause here in K-Mart they have "blue light specials" not RED light! Isn’t that funny!  Just like the show ribbons…we get blue for first place, so I guess they think *blue* on the specials! I wish someone would *throw* printer ink cartridges at me….please? Kathy in NC (but not the other one…<BG) 8-D

Response:

Trish, just the ink cartridges are a treasure!  Those things are expensive and always run out at the wrong moment (in the middle of an intricate XS pattern).  For my color printer (Canon) they’re almost $30 each. Can I come hang around you for a while?  Maybe some of it will rub off. …Pam in Dallas (plus, it’s really hot here) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There was a Lexmark 1100 *colour* printer reduced from $150 to $120. As DH approached, the saleslady reduced it again by half!!! So he fell upon it, trying hard not to get drool on everyone around him. As he approached the checkout, the saleslady caught up with him and tossed in three (two colour and a black) ink cartridges. *HOW ‘BOUT THAT???* So, today, we’ve been having a printfest on our sexy new printer! Life is sweet, isn’t it? Trish {|:OI} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Response:

Life is sweet, isn’t it?

Ain’t it just! Kathy — Counted Cross Stitch, Needlework and Stitchery Page | do with infinity and    <http://www.dnai.com/~kdyer/                    | jelly doughnuts."

Response:

<snipt So, today, we’ve been having a printfest on our sexy new printer! Life is sweet, isn’t it? Run, do not walk, to your local lottery agent.  :-) Great news.  Couldn’t happen to nicer people. Mike

Michael, my love, is your *real* name ‘Lucky Seven’??? Trish {|:OI} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kathy, Kathy! Me too! There must be something in the air! (Erm… hang on, your air is not the same as my air…) Our printer died last month. We were really depressed, because it meant that DH couldn’t print out his assignments here at home, but had to travel to the University to do it. And of course I couldn’t print out my XS patterns or anything either. Yesterday, DH met his brother at KMart and they went looking for birthday presents for their respective DDs. The red light special was announced, so DH *shot* to the clearance trolley (as is his wont: *no-one* has a nose for a bargain like my Hunn). There was a Lexmark 1100 *colour* printer reduced from $150 to $120. As DH approached, the saleslady reduced it again by half!!! So he fell upon it, trying hard not to get drool on everyone around him. As he approached the checkout, the saleslady caught up with him and tossed in three (two colour and a black) ink cartridges. *HOW ‘BOUT THAT???* So, today, we’ve been having a printfest on our sexy new printer! Life is sweet, isn’t it? Trish {|:OI} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Hi Trish,  the other Kathy here (the horsey one I think!) Glad to hear about your printer victory!  I had to laugh though cause here in K-Mart they have "blue light specials" not RED light! Isn’t that funny!  Just like the show ribbons…we get blue for first place, so I guess they think *blue* on the specials! I wish someone would *throw* printer ink cartridges at me….please? Kathy in NC (but not the other one…<BG) 8-D

Response:

Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I

LOL. I discovered, while on our honeymoon in California, that a wonderful place to find Kreinik blending filament and ribbon is at the local fishing/fly shops. I picked up a spool of copper ribbon for about $0.30 at The Fly Shop in CA. (I only got the one because they only had ribbon…. and I mainly wanted it for the "Fly-Tying Ribbon" cardboard backer. :::grin:::) –Kris WIPs: My first hardanger project! Janelle Marie’s "Lunar Harvest" MLI’s "Once Upon a Time" TW’s "Noah’s Ark Sampler" Stamped hummingbird pillowcases Blackwork Chatelaine & Accessories

Response:

(snip) Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I grabbed one of every color/type there and, clutching my hard won loot, battled my way back to safety. Fourteen spools in all for $4.76 plus tax! Whoooo heee!!!!

Kathy, Who says the good don’t get rewarded! You deserve every spool.   Jane

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Last night, I stopped by my favorite Chinese restaurant and ordered dinner to go.  There was a 20 minute wait, so I wandered down a couple of doors to a craft store called Richards (somewhat like a small version of Michaels).  I am fortunate to have an excellent LNS (Dutch Treat Needlecraft), so I rarely visit the craft store. Richards has a clearance aisle waaaay at the back of the store.  It looked as if a small tornado had gone through it.  The floor was covered with spilled merchandise.  But I saw something gleaming about halfway down the aisle, so in my best Indiana Jones manner I fought my way through the traps and…GASP…Treasure!!! Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I grabbed one of every color/type there and, clutching my hard won loot, battled my way back to safety. Fourteen spools in all for $4.76 plus tax! Whoooo heee!!!! Kathy

Kathy, Kathy! Me too! There must be something in the air! (Erm… hang on, your air is not the same as my air…) Our printer died last month. We were really depressed, because it meant that DH couldn’t print out his assignments here at home, but had to travel to the University to do it. And of course I couldn’t print out my XS patterns or anything either. Yesterday, DH met his brother at KMart and they went looking for birthday presents for their respective DDs. The red light special was announced, so DH *shot* to the clearance trolley (as is his wont: *no-one* has a nose for a bargain like my Hunn). There was a Lexmark 1100 *colour* printer reduced from $150 to $120. As DH approached, the saleslady reduced it again by half!!! So he fell upon it, trying hard not to get drool on everyone around him. As he approached the checkout, the saleslady caught up with him and tossed in three (two colour and a black) ink cartridges. *HOW ‘BOUT THAT???* So, today, we’ve been having a printfest on our sexy new printer! Life is sweet, isn’t it? Trish {|:OI} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I stopped by my favorite Chinese restaurant and ordered dinner to go.  There was a 20 minute wait, so I wandered down a couple of doors to a craft store called Richards (somewhat like a small version of Michaels).  I am fortunate to have an excellent LNS (Dutch Treat Needlecraft), so I rarely visit the craft store. Richards has a clearance aisle waaaay at the back of the store.  It looked as if a small tornado had gone through it.  The floor was covered with spilled merchandise.  But I saw something gleaming about halfway down the aisle, so in my best Indiana Jones manner I fought my way through the traps and…GASP…Treasure!!! Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I grabbed one of every color/type there and, clutching my hard won loot, battled my way back to safety. Fourteen spools in all for $4.76 plus tax! Whoooo heee!!!! Kathy — Counted Cross Stitch, Needlework and Stitchery Page | do with infinity and    <http://www.dnai.com/~kdyer/                    | jelly doughnuts."

Response:

Last night, I stopped by my favorite Chinese restaurant and ordered dinner to go.  There was a 20 minute wait, so I wandered down a couple of doors to a craft store called Richards (somewhat like a small version of Michaels).  I am fortunate to have an excellent LNS (Dutch Treat Needlecraft), so I rarely visit the craft store. Richards has a clearance aisle waaaay at the back of the store.  It looked as if a small tornado had gone through it.  The floor was covered with spilled merchandise.  But I saw something gleaming about halfway down the aisle, so in my best Indiana Jones manner I fought my way through the traps and…GASP…Treasure!!! Kreinik blending filament and cord for $.34 a spool!! Yes, 34 cents!  I grabbed one of every color/type there and, clutching my hard won loot, battled my way back to safety. Fourteen spools in all for $4.76 plus tax! Whoooo heee!!!! Kathy — Counted Cross Stitch, Needlework and Stitchery Page | do with infinity and    <http://www.dnai.com/~kdyer/                    | jelly doughnuts."

Response:

Question:

One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman.

 There’s an area in Utah where I’ve fished for years, with my Grandpa, and dad.. This is just a farmers field, where the Weber river cuts off, but really good fishing…  The owner started charging 10$ per, due to garbage left by others.. It seems that those who were littering don’t feel like paying, so it’s clean now.. But still costs… And I skipped ahead.. I agree, I did get the main point… My dad’s ALWAYS taught us to leave the areas we go cleaner than when we got there…

Response:

Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .    . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .  . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .     . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .     + .  ~~~  . * . +

bullshit……. canadian take more pride in their waters than most ever visit the great white north????? well youcan still drink the water out of most of the lakes and rivers there….. as for polluters.. maybe we should look more at the american mine companies in northern ontario for what is really polluting our waters?//

Response:

I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!! One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman. The landowner even posted signs warning people that he would close the area if the littering continued. The next signs he put up were " No Trespassing- Violaters will be Prosecuted". I have talked to him and tried to get permission to fish. His response " blame it on your fellow fisherman".

   I was out paddling a canoe this past spring looking for spawning grounds, saw a few beds, also many sunken beer cans. Really sucks.

Response:

Cutam281 Writes: There are alot of lazy ass people whom continue to carelessly polute our rivers & lakes…I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!

KEW Writes: you could get arrested forsuspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. kw

Cutam281 Writes: Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….

KEW Writes: Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw

NO!! You wake up "KEW"!!!   The way you keep comming up with excuse after excuse to sink beer cans leads me to believe that YOU are most likely one of those whom do the sinking… If the laws in Illinois and elsewhere are strict on beer being comsumed while on water, then you and others should find another beverage to drink while boating and obey your state laws!!  If you must have your alcohol then wait till you get back on dry land & drink…As I said, "There is NO excuse for littering our water AT ALL!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

bullshit……. canadian take more pride in their waters than most ever visit the great white north????? well youcan still drink the water out of most of the lakes and rivers there….. as for polluters.. maybe we should look more at the american mine companies in northern ontario for what is really polluting our waters?//

Hey Mark, Try telling this to "KEW"… He seems to have accused Canadian guides of sinking beer cans… Hey KEW, Are you sure you witnessed them sinking the cans?? Maybe what you actually saw was the guide pulling some sunken cans OUT of the water.. Hahahahahaha!!!!!! ~    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NO!! You wake up "KEW"!!!   The way you keep comming up with excuse after excuse to sink beer cans leads me to believe that YOU are most likely one of those whom do the sinking… If the laws in Illinois and elsewhere are strict on beer being comsumed while on water, then you and others should find another beverage to drink while boating and obey your state laws!! If you must have your alcohol then wait till you get back on dry land & drink…As I said, "There is NO excuse for littering our water AT ALL!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

reason why you see beer cans strewn along the highways too…but do I care…. no way.  I offered an analysis…. you offered — WHAT? kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hey Mark, Try telling this to "KEW"… He seems to have accused Canadian guides of sinking beer cans… Hey KEW, Are you sure you witnessed them sinking the cans?? Maybe what you actually saw was the guide pulling some sunken cans OUT of the water.. Hahahahahaha!!!!!! ~    . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

///// I was not accusing "Canadian guides" ……. at least not in general.  In fact, I didn’t accuse anyone.  I simply pointed out a direct observation.. You don’t have to believe it…. why would I care?. kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw That excuse doesn’t hold beer.  Some states have such laws while others don’t but you wouldn’t be able to tell which is which from the beer can litter on the water, or anywhere else, for that matter.  Personally, I think that states should raise beer can deposits to $2 per can. Then, if the drinkers are still too lazy, there will at least be a substantial incentive for others to pick up after them.  Who knows, someone might even get a franchise going, something like "Surrogate Mothers of America", with the slogan "We’re still picking up after you !" greg pavlov  [not affiliated with Canisius College]

I share the same sentiments of raising the deposits on beer/liquor containers up in the "$$$" range. This would make people think twice about chucking their cans anywhere.

Response:

WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM.

I can totaly relate to your post…. There are alot of lazy ass people whom continue to carelessly polute our rivers & lakes…I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!

One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman. The landowner even posted signs warning people that he would close the area if the littering continued. The next signs he put up were " No Trespassing- Violaters will be Prosecuted". I have talked to him and tried to get permission to fish. His response " blame it on your fellow fisherman".

Response:

WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM.

If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. kw

Response:

If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place…..

Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason.

Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

I think all of you missed my point!!! It’s not just beer cans it’s garbage in general. the point I was trying  to make is that we all have to do our part to clean things up!!!  You can’t blame people….You have to take action. Next time you see some garbage PICK IT UP!!! Set an example that it’s the IN thing to do!!! Show kids it’s cool to clean up even if it’s not yours!! TEACH BY EXAMPLE!!!! It is easy to sit here and write about it. DO IT!!!! So enough said, I thought I’d get a positive response, not a blame it on someone else session. THANK YOU TO ALL WHO READ THIS AND UNDERSTOOD WHAT I SAID AND PICKED UP  SOME GARBAGE THE LAST TIME THEY FOUND SOME!

Response:

I STOOD IN MY WADERS THIS EVENING IN A RIVER NOT FAR FROM MY HOUSE. IT IS A RIVER NOTED FOR SMALL MOUTH BASS, CATFISH, WALLEYE, MUSKIE , PIKE , PANFISH, ALL WHICH ARE ABUNDANT. AS I WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM. THERE WAS A  GROUP OF FISHERMAN WHO WERE NEAR THE DAM FISHING UNDER THE FROTH FOR CATFISH I SUPPOSE. I’M NOT HERE TO BLAME ANYONE…… BUT I STARTED TO THINK OF HOW FAR THE RIVER HAS COME FROM WHAT IT WAS. I USED TO HEAR ABOUT THE RIVER AND HOW DIRTY IT WAS. THERE WERE NO FISH AND SO ON. TODAY THE RIVER IS A TROPHY FISHERY THANKS TO THE WORK OF MANY VOLUNTEERS AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME. SO THIS IS JUST A REMINDER TO LEAVE THE AREA YOU FISH BETTER THAN THE WAY YOU FOUND IT. PICK UP SOME TRASH AND THROW IT AWAY….EVEN IF IT’S NOT YOURS. REMEMBER TO EDUCATE THE YOUNG AND SHOW THEM BY EXAMPLE LIKE MY FATHER DID. LET’S TRY TO MAKE AN EXTRA EFFORT TO CONTINUE TO MAKE OUR RIVERS, LAKES , PONDS AND STREAMS BETTER PLACES TO FISH FOR EVERYONE!!                                                        BECAUSE I LOVE TO FISH!!

Response:

Question:

I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

      My favorite fishen hole is in a little canal off the St.John’s river. right under the I-4 bridge as it rises to cross the river and people are always pulling off 17/92 where it goes along side Lake Monrow. They get used to it. If you got room to cast, the water looks right go fishen.                                                          John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

Response:

That’s the key… it’s right on the way home from work!    I used to have that situation with a beautiful little mountain lake.  It was a mile down a dirt road, right on the way home from work.  I brought my float tube to work every day.  If the weather got shitty and I didn’t get to fish for a day or two on the way home, I started getting very irritable — withdrawl symptoms! You’re lucky to have a place like that, I think.

Yea, it is nice this time of the year, it’s the other six months I get tired of. I commute over a 7800′ mountain in some of the most incredible snow storms you can imagine! I guess the hard Winters are what makes this time of year especially enjoyable.  I can’t believe I have waited so long  (14 years) to take up fly fishing, late bloomer I suppose!  So much time to make up for, but I am up to the job!!! Rich

Response:

Rich, The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

Response:

Set up hard on a 3 inch brook trout sending it into the windshield of a passing car…. "Jeeeeeezus Martha….Didja see THAT bug…criminy  !" — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Set up hard on a 3 inch brook trout sending it into the windshield of a passing car…. "Jeeeeeezus Martha….Didja see THAT bug…criminy  !"

    For a moment I thought this was a response to the "Frying Pan, Roaring Fork" thread. Reminds me of some of the lower water on the Pan. Tom Christian External Technology Program Hewlett-Packard Laboratories 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80528-9599 Phone: (970) 898-3531 FAX: (970) 898-6198

Response:

My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks.

I don’t think fish can hear the noises that we on the bank can hear but they can feel vibrations and river bed disturbance. Some of my best fish have been caught immediately under a UK motorway bridge (a very busy dual carriage way road).  The noise drives me up the wall but the fish don’t seem to notice it – at least, they favour the deep pool below / under / above the bridge.  But they know all about it if I stumble through the pool in the dark in my studded waders… Street lights are also a problem for those of us who fish for sea trout by night. I’ve heard that migratory fish are intimidated by bridges and other over-water structures.  Anyone have any knowledge / theories on this? — Phil Jones

Response:

The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams.

Almost too rough for a newbie! Tried it with a weighted wooly bugger and single split shot. Never even felt the bottom!

Response:

Last August I was on highway 50 heading back to SF from Tahoe.  This road runs along the (North Branch?) American River which looked fishable along certain spots.  It’s a two lane highway with loads of traffic and about 40′ above water level.  Parked alongside the road I could spot several trout beside a large boulder less than 5 feet from shore.  Traffic didn’t seem to be bothering them.  Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

Response:

This is a tough time of year to fly fish any of the Sierra streams.  It will get better around the end of June.   — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams. Almost too rough for a newbie! Tried it with a weighted wooly bugger and single split shot. Never even felt the bottom!

Response:

I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

Response:

I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

What’s the water like?  Whitewater drowns out other noise VERY well.  I’ve fished on the Wilson in Oregon, highway 6 runs right along the river.  Standing near the whitewater with a tree or two to hide the cars and you’d think you were in the middle of nowhere.  On the other hand, the sound of the water can get "deafening" after a while.  I’m used to it, but my brother was visiting and had to leave for a bit to let his ears stop ringing. Why don’t you go try it and see?  If you like it, stay, if not try to find somewhere else. Later,      - Ken

Response:

What’s the water like?

Right now it’s it’s fairly fast due to snow melt off, in fact I think it’s too deep for good fishing although I have tried it up river a bit.  I will definately try it as a bit at a time.  I figure it will be  great way to unwind on the way home from work this summer!  

Response:

What’s the water like? Right now it’s it’s fairly fast due to snow melt off, in fact I think it’s too deep for good fishing although I have tried it up river a bit.  I will definately try it as a bit at a time.  I figure it will be  great way to unwind on the way home from work this summer!

That’s the key… it’s right on the way home from work!    I used to have that situation with a beautiful little mountain lake.  It was a mile down a dirt road, right on the way home from work.  I brought my float tube to work every day.  If the weather got shitty and I didn’t get to fish for a day or two on the way home, I started getting very irritable — withdrawl symptoms! You’re lucky to have a place like that, I think. Bob Scott

Response:

Rich,     The fish are probably acclimated to the road noise and not bothered by it at all. I’ve fished spots much closer to the road and I’m sure I’m not the only one in the group to get spooled on the back cast (a Ford in my case).             Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water. My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

Response:

Question:

Does anybody mark their lines and leaders for identification? What kind of markers do you use and how do you code the marks? Examples: 3. Leaders can be kept in wallets. However, they are left on the line sometimes and I forget what they were when I put them on. What other methods do you folks use to keep your lines/leaders organized in your shop and/or on the waters? B.

Brian,         I tie my own leaders.  When I tie a leader, I wrap a short strip of paper around it with the length, weight, and formula source listed on it.  When I use the leader, the slip of paper goes into my reel pocket on my vest.  That way, when I fish next time, I can see what leader I have on.  This only gets me in trouble when I use more than one spool.  But, the leaders are usually substantially different for different lines, so I can figure it out. — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody mark their lines and leaders for identification? What kind of markers do you use and how do you code the marks? Examples: 1. I have heard that it is a good idea to mark your dry line about 30′ from the end. This is typically the ideal amount of line to load a rod. 2. Although a label comes with lines to be placed on the inside of the spool/reel, they do come off. It would be nice to mark the line somehow. 3. Leaders can be kept in wallets. However, they are left on the line sometimes and I forget what they were when I put them on. 4. How old is that line/leader? Date code? What other methods do you folks use to keep your lines/leaders organized in your shop and/or on the waters?

Lefty Kreh recommends using an indelible marker somewhere near the end and uses a code of a long stripe is 5 and a short mark is one. Then he identifies wt. forward by putting the short mark or marks in front (toward the end) of the 5 mark. For example a 7 wt forward line would be _.. (long short short) but a 7 wt. double taper would be .._ I imagine you could use an offset color for numbers less than 5 (ie. the off color short mark would be on one end or the other to show wt. forward or double taper). He never does explain how he would mark a 5 wt. line to show DT or WF. Perhaps 5 short marks to allow an off color mark on one end. I would imagine you could mark the 30 ft. spot the same way with indelible marker. I usually put the sticker on the spool when I attach the line. However, this is only convenient if you intend to leave the line on the spool always. $.02 Jon

Response:

Try Cortland Lazer Lines,they are marked as to size. Also Climax Double Doubles are marked. Climax WF fly lines have a telemark on the line at the optimum pick up point.In lay terms the line changes color at that point. Tight Loops KW —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody mark their lines and leaders for identification? What kind of markers do you use and how do you code the marks? I don’t mark my lines as the way I figure it if I can’t remember what line is on a reel or in a spare spool; I’ve got too many lines. Could have used that money to take the kids to a movie! Marking distance can be good when you’re learning to cast if you need to know how much line you need off the top of the rod to load; (just try to spot that mark as you false cast!) but in practice how much is in the air depends on what you’re doing. I’ve never done it in about 20 years of flyfishing and I never missed it.  It may be usefull if you want to be able to say to yourself " hoo-eee, I just made an 80 foot cast" and tells the boys in the Bar you’re finally an ‘expert’ As if they’d care. 8^) Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

I find marking full sinking line in 10ft intervals is helpful in determining how much line is out, especially if you want to repeat a depth after a fish.  I use a sharpie and add one ring for each ten feet of depth. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

Response:

Does anybody mark their lines and leaders for identification? What kind of markers do you use and how do you code the marks?

I don’t mark my lines as the way I figure it if I can’t remember what line is on a reel or in a spare spool; I’ve got too many lines. Could have used that money to take the kids to a movie! Marking distance can be good when you’re learning to cast if you need to know how much line you need off the top of the rod to load; (just try to spot that mark as you false cast!) but in practice how much is in the air depends on what you’re doing. I’ve never done it in about 20 years of flyfishing and I never missed it.  It may be usefull if you want to be able to say to yourself " hoo-eee, I just made an 80 foot cast" and tells the boys in the Bar you’re finally an ‘expert’ As if they’d care. 8^) Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

Response:

I mark all my fly lines in the first foot or two by using a series of magic marker lines. A wide line (approx 1/2") equals five, a thin line (approx 1/8") equals one, if the small marks are closer to the tip subtract from the five marker(s) and if the small marks are towards the belly add to the five marker(s). This system has worked for me for over five years. I use a color coded magic marker system for saltwater leaders as well. I keep a notebook in my tacklebag which contains all my notes as to what color is what weight, etc. HTH. — Tom Dougherty A.K.’s Fly Tying Tools http://www.aks-flytools.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody mark their lines and leaders for identification? What kind of markers do you use and how do you code the marks? Examples: 1. I have heard that it is a good idea to mark your dry line about 30′ from the end. This is typically the ideal amount of line to load a rod. 2. Although a label comes with lines to be placed on the inside of the spool/reel, they do come off. It would be nice to mark the line somehow. 3. Leaders can be kept in wallets. However, they are left on the line sometimes and I forget what they were when I put them on. 4. How old is that line/leader? Date code? What other methods do you folks use to keep your lines/leaders organized in your shop and/or on the waters? B.

Response:

Does anybody mark their lines and leaders for identification? What kind of markers do you use and how do you code the marks?

I mark my lines at each end to show the line wt, mainly because I use a loop to loop connection between the line and backing. I use a Banford Sharpie permanent marker and use a wide mark for five and a narrow mark for one. I put the wide marks towards the front of the line. (I read this in a Lefty Kreh book but don’t know who invented the system).  I don’t use distance marks, the casting here in Georgia is usually pretty tight and the times I have fished the salt I just cast as far as I can and hope the fish can swim to my fly<g. FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

Does anybody mark their lines and leaders for identification? What kind of markers do you use and how do you code the marks? Examples: 1. I have heard that it is a good idea to mark your dry line about 30′ from the end. This is typically the ideal amount of line to load a rod. 2. Although a label comes with lines to be placed on the inside of the spool/reel, they do come off. It would be nice to mark the line somehow. 3. Leaders can be kept in wallets. However, they are left on the line sometimes and I forget what they were when I put them on. 4. How old is that line/leader? Date code? What other methods do you folks use to keep your lines/leaders organized in your shop and/or on the waters? B.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody mark their lines and leaders for identification? What kind of markers do you use and how do you code the marks? Examples: 1. I have heard that it is a good idea to mark your dry line about 30′ from the end. This is typically the ideal amount of line to load a rod. 2. Although a label comes with lines to be placed on the inside of the spool/reel, they do come off. It would be nice to mark the line somehow. 3. Leaders can be kept in wallets. However, they are left on the line sometimes and I forget what they were when I put them on. 4. How old is that line/leader? Date code? What other methods do you folks use to keep your lines/leaders organized in your shop and/or on the waters? B.

Hi Brian For years I’ve marked my lines for length just because I’m such a louse judge of distance and for no other reason. I use an indelible felt tip marker — at 30′, one mark, at 40′, two markes, at 50′, three marks and so on out to 80′. From there I know it a short distance to the and and very honestly though I can throw the line when needed I seldom have to use that much line for normal fishing conditions here in Montana. Regarding what line is on what spool I’ve had no problem keeping the little sticker on the inside of the spool if I place a small piece of clear "shipping tape" over the line weight sticker. Take care &… — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

1. I have heard that it is a good idea to mark your dry line about 30′ from the end. This is typically the ideal amount of line to load a rod.

I tried this when a beginner.  It soon becomes a waste of time.  The "ideal amount of line" is not something you see with the conscious eye — it is something you feel unconsciously in your hand and arm, while the eye is on the fish and the water. 2. Although a label comes with lines to be placed on the inside of the spool/reel, they do come off. It would be nice to mark the line somehow.

Yes, until you have identified which line types you trust.  Once you prefer particular brands of floaters, tapers, sink tips etc. you can buy (most) in distinctive colours, i.e. use the manufacturers’ color codes to keep track. 3. Leaders can be kept in wallets. However, they are left on the line sometimes and I forget what they were when I put them on. 4. How old is that line/leader? Date code?

These questions do not arise for people who use a permanent leader butt, which lasts as long as the line.  Nylon is cheaper than time; you put on a fresh tippet at the start of each session anyway; and it is easy to replace the intermediate tapered section once a year or more often if you feel the need, e.g. using a trout outfit for salmon. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

Response:

Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

A true conservationist. No wonder we get stupid postings from animal rights types if prople are going to post rubbish like this. Cheers Tight Lines Rod

Response:

I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste muddy. BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 lbs.  

I saw one caught off the shore on Lake Erie last year.  I had no clue what it was.  Posted a question on here and got many replies.  It just amazed me that there was a fresh water fish that I didn’t recognize. It did put up a strong fight, and was about 24 inches long.  Looked like a blast from our prehistoric past to me. BJA Still looking for a 23′ Bayliner Trophy (or anything else in my price range), soon going to give up and buy a new one.

Response:

| I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, | and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some | light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good | to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the | fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply | dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat | has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste | muddy. | BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   | Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 | lbs.   Is this the same as the shovelbill catfish? Seems to me that redfish used to be considered a trashfish that was fun to catch, but lousy on the table. At least until Chef Paul began blackening them and then it became an industry. Heat up your skillet! Before I knew what they were, I caught and fried up a small freshwater drum. Yeeeeuuuucccchhhhh!

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I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation?

I’m the same way about Chain Pickerel.  I frequent Caddo in East Texas, and they have bowfin (never caught one of those before, though) and chain pickerel (a kin to the pike).  I go to Caddo specifically to catch (and release) Pickerel, and even hired a guide to help me find it when I got my first shut-out ever.  The guide?  He was more like, "uh, yeah, yeah I can help you find those (spit, spit)".  They’re wild fighters and with their long thin bodies (leverage), a 2-pounder feels like a 6-pound largemouth. I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely

I’ll fish for anything too.  There have been days when I’d be happy to catch a tiny GAR, just to make sure I really did have a hook on the end of the line!  People argue about fishing methods, lure types, brands, colors, and species.  Then you have the bass folks that hate catching anything under 5 pounds.  When the going gets tough for me, I break out the ultralight tackle and fish for bream!   Of course, I say all of this and I have my biases too.  Some people love fishing for carp, but I can’t stand them.  I’m also not really crazy about gar.  Maybe I have an adversion to anything with armidillo type skin.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton

How did u prep those bowfin to get them ready for the oven ???? I was in Northern Louisiana (Air Force assignment) a few years ago and caught these fish in the bayus of Barksdale AFB … They did wonders for a good frisky catch / better fight than any bass I’ve ever caught /  but they "melted" when I tried to fry them …. I used them in the tomatoe garden … planted along side the plants … What GREAT plant food !!!!!! BoneyFingers / in Georgia (now) ..

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I live in South Florida and I want to know if there are more people out there who enjoy catching Bowfins? They are called Mudfish down here, and everyone seems to consider them a "trash" fish, except of course me. My first Mudfish was about 5 pounds, and fought like a cross between a catfish and a bass, diving, leaping, twisting, over and over. When I finally got it next to the boat, my fishing partner went, ugh! Mudfish…. I had caught a few bass earlier but none of them were as big or fought as hard as this gladiator from the stone age. I was hooked. I promptly changed my fishing tactics and targeted the Mudfish as my quarry for the rest of the day. Since them I have sponsored 5 Mudfish tournaments. All my friends are now hooked on the sport, and we even had a reporter come out to one of the tournaments and they printed a big article on us in the local newspaper. Once I found out that they were not only edible, but when baked they taste exactly like turkey breast, all white meat and juicy. Not one bit fishy. We now hold a big barbecue after the tournament, and enjoy Bowfin and beer till it gets dark. I have served baked fillet of Bowfin covered with Turkey gravy at Thanksgiving to my unsuspecting guests as an experiment to see if it was just me, or did this really taste like Turkey. Surprise. Everyone commented how tasty the White Turkey Meat was. I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

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I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun.  I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs  put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

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: I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever : you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their : fighting capabilities. : I find it hard to believe that this fantastic : fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good : trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can : anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is : the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps : twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten To me, catching the nasty bow-fin is like that awful story where a man’s wife gets raped; certainly she fights as hard as she can, and the attackers are later captured, but sex never is the same again. Well, perhaps not *that* extreme. The thing is, they’ll go after most anything, and it will always be an unpleasant surprise. Top-water plugs? Nasty, stink-bait? Soft-plastics? Whatever you’re fishing for, or with, sooner or later, you’re going to be convinced you’ve caught the biggest *ever* of that species, only to see the horrible grinnel surface. <sigh Yes, the fighting properties of the fish are all that, and then some. But if you think you’ve got a wall-hanger largemouth….<sigh And as for "tasting like turkey…."   The meat’s got a soft, gelatinous texture. It doesn’t smell good, and is yellowish, with holes like a sponge. Turkey breast, my foot. I thnk I’ll have a drum-stick.

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I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their fighting capabilities.  Beaver Dam Lake was stocked with them in an effort to reduce the carp population.  It was assumed that they would eat the carp fry.  Ignorant fisherman killed them as fast as they caught them.  They assumed the bowfins were eating all the walleye!  Now, if I were a predatory fish, forced to live in a cesspool like Beaver Dam Lake, would I be eating a rare, spiny walleye, or leisurely gulping down soft rayed carp fry, which are present in vast shoals? — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton                                                

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Question:

Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and thought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two days from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the crowds were down from what I was led to believe.  

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Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and thought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two days from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the crowds were down from what I was led to believe.

Hi J Miller The crowds on the Bighorn are not as big prior to June and after Labor Day. Even when it is crowded it is a great fishery. You can escape some of the crowds by fishing a back bays and side channels. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

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jmiller writes:

Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and th ought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two d ays from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the  crowds were down from what I was led to believe.   Absolutely everybody!  Come on out!!  May I suggest the excellent Orvis Shop on the outskirts of Fort Smith?  And for first class lodging don’t forget the justifiably world famous Big Horn Lodge at 12 mile takeout!  Their guides can get anyone into fish! World class fishing in a pristine uncrowded environment.  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and thought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two days from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the crowds were down from what I was led to believe. Hi J Miller The crowds on the Bighorn are not as big prior to June and after Labor Day. Even when it is crowded it is a great fishery. You can escape some of the crowds by fishing a back bays and side channels. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

CHRIST AL!  Isn’t anything sacred with you around?  You already have Miss Horn stripped naked, and now you want everyone to rape her?  Her over-crowding is due to reporting and writing examples exactly like this.  How else can you slit her throat, tear her heart out?  Why don’t you tell everybody about the private airport there, right below the dam so they can fly in and the guides pick them up?  Don’t let any stone unturned! Why don’t you start submitting some line-drawings of every side ditch, side channel, and all the back-waters?  And .12 cents a hook is too much money!  What won’t you do for a buck Al as you sell Japanese and screw America in the same postings? You lack common-sense Mr. Beatty.  Remind me never to invite you to go fishing with me to any of my secret places.  You would blab it all away to the gill-netters and bait fishing hogs who listen to every word everyone says here. I am seriously disappointed in your unresponsible sharing of the finest waters left in Montana.  The Big Horn is going to get exactly what you think she deserves.   No wonder Jesus threw the money-changers out of the house of God.  I only wish now, that house was in Montana. Mr. G.

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It’s not like the Bighorn is a secret of any sorts and I’m sure that if there are "secret spots" along its shores Mr. Beatty’s comments do in no way direct the bait casting masses to them, he merely restated, politely, what EVERY book on the subject of flyfishing has said for years, don’t overlook the side channels, back eddies, and feeder creeks.  I’m surprised at your ire, it seems unreasonable mr.sportsman. Bob

Remind me never to invite you to go – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – fishing with me to any of my secret places.  You would blab it all away to the gill-netters and bait fishing hogs who listen to every word everyone says here.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aw c’mon, it’s not that bad!  I was there for the first time in September and thought that it was a great place to fish.  Fished two days with a guide and two days from shore and caught plenty of nice fish all four days.  I thought that the crowds were down from what I was led to believe. Hi J Miller The crowds on the Bighorn are not as big prior to June and after Labor Day. Even when it is crowded it is a great fishery. You can escape some of the crowds by fishing a back bays and side channels. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50 CHRIST AL!  Isn’t anything sacred with you around?  You already have Miss Horn stripped naked, and now you want everyone to rape her?  Her over-crowding is due to reporting and writing examples exactly like this.  How else can you slit her throat, tear her heart out?  Why don’t you tell everybody about the private airport there, right below the dam so they can fly in and the guides pick them up?  Don’t let any stone unturned! Why don’t you start submitting some line-drawings of every side ditch, side channel, and all the back-waters?  And .12 cents a hook is too much money!  What won’t you do for a buck Al as you sell Japanese and screw America in the same postings? You lack common-sense Mr. Beatty.  Remind me never to invite you to go fishing with me to any of my secret places.  You would blab it all away to the gill-netters and bait fishing hogs who listen to every word everyone says here. I am seriously disappointed in your unresponsible sharing of the finest waters left in Montana.  The Big Horn is going to get exactly what you think she deserves. No wonder Jesus threw the money-changers out of the house of God.  I only wish now, that house was in Montana. Mr. G.

Whats another thousand people or more….eventually people will figure out the Big Horn is too crowded and they will move along to the next river…and then the next river…sadly though, the people that come to Montana to fish once had nice trout streams in their home states…and they could have good fishing streams again if they would give up for one season that trip to Montana and invest the money, and the time in doing something for their local stream…the Battenkill is a good case in point..I was reading a story by Geoff Norman, a Vermont writer, in Snow Country Mag…he was telling people where to fish around the country…one such place was the Battenkill..he called it "a stately little stream.." and "a demanding river that holds big brown trout.." What he doesn’t tell you is two companies put 75-100 canoes on the river every summer day from 8am-9pm…and he doesn’t tell you that Fish and Game can’t do a decent creel survey because there aren’t enough fisherman…maybe people should go to Vermont this summer..they could fish the Battenkill all day and not see another fisherman! Of course the fish are demanding…and not existant.

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I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged.   To Al Beatty:  Thank you for your continuing honest and accurate newsgroup postings.  I have learned from months of reading them, and from comparing them to my own experiences, that they are informative, accurate, and reliable.  You have helped me and others make occasional decisions concerning flyfishing equipment, technique, and destinations. Please continue your forthright and helpful postings to this newsgroup.   To Mr. G:  Shame on you!

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I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged. To Al Beatty:  Thank you for your continuing honest and accurate newsgroup postings.  I have learned from months of reading them, and from comparing them to my own experiences, that they are informative, accurate, and reliable.  You have helped me and others make occasional decisions concerning flyfishing equipment, technique, and destinations. Please continue your forthright and helpful postings to this newsgroup. To Mr. G:  Shame on you!

You are probably right Mr. Anderson but it doesn’t mean I need to tell the whole world what rivers they should attack so it can become overcrowded and ruined as ‘a quality experience’.  You take the Net’s power, too much for granted for it is an awesome thing that can mistreat the environment as well as enhance it.  When you go on the Big Horn again and see what such posts will do to it . . . then you live with it.  I’m not here to win a popularity contest by supporting a likable guy that is wrong, and in my opinion, telling everyone in the world where to apply fishing pressure where increased fishing pressure cannot be increased or tolerated requires no apology from me for being frank, honest, and straight-forward.  The truth shouldn’t  hurt unless it should, but in this case, it will be once again a fishery that will pay the price.  Shame on me?!  Hardly, sir! I respect your views . . . but when it comes to the majority, the majority is usually wrong . . . as in this case.  It was the majority that nailed Jesus Christ to the Cross and Joan of Ark to the stake, and it will be the majority that is destroying the Big Horn.  In fact, it already has . . . or haven’t you noticed lately, Mr. Anderson?  Lastly, bear in mind that I’m not Al Beatty’s me-too boy and neither are you, I’m sure, but it was wrong, wrong, wrong to pound a fishery to the point where the entire weight of humanity suddenly is a weight even you, one day, will not be able to tolerate.  Be not so quick to destroy your own reverie in the name of business.  The west, doesn’t have THAT MUCH more good waters left.  Why push it? I therefore must tell you, I feel and deserve no Shame.  Not when it comes to the Big Horn.  Not when Montana still had one good river still running through her.  Kiss her goodby, I think.  The next question is, what other unsung, wonderful fishery do you think you and Beatty should direct the entire fly fishing trade too now?  There isn’t a good river in the world that isn’t destroyed by writers.  I will have none of it. Let your customers find their own places.  Let them fish right outside your door or isn’t there enough fish there anymore?  Don’t send them my way.   Yellowstone Park deserves that trade. But overall, you are right.  But I said nothing about how Al’s experience is helpful to the general public, did I?  I specifically addressed what I think is an inappropriate advertisment for everyone to run to an already over-crowed fishery.  I was one of the first ‘white-men’ to fish this Indian Reservation.  When it was common to hook Rainbows over ten pounds! Kiss that fishery and sizes goodby forever also . . . due to the lack of writing tact!  John Merwin was able to get to it long after it was opened and it was still good enough to have a few remaining giant genes in it.  Ask John Merwin about what I’m talking about and then ask him what happened to that fishery after HE WROTE ABOUT IT!  He sold magazines alright.  That was his business as an editor.  But look who paid the price. Shame on me?  No way Mr. Anderson.  No way at all!  And don’t you dare chew me out for things I never did regarding Mr. Beatty.  I said nothing about his helpfulness, his experiences, his exactness, his knowledge of equipment, about you, about anything regarding his usefulness as a fly fishing capitalist.  Did I?  I’m talking about demeaning a fishery that is already over-burdened, and now this man want to expose the Big Horn’s remaining gene pools for access by the public? Now, I know the general public won’t like this view because they want the easy way out.  I hunt for my areas.  They don’t come to me as a free gift. And when I find them, I keep them lifetime secrets.  Sacred and dear as they are, places in my life I want no others and I don’t care if it is you, my wife, friendly Mr. Beatty, or the President.  I don’t want anyone else there if humanly possible.  Those off the beaten path ways remaining in the Big Horn area are such areas.  Now, the ‘general public’ has been given the entire river Mr. Anderson.  Now, the general public has it all! Don’t chew me out for being frank, but you both are wrong.  And If I’m wrong in my view, I guarantee you I’ll pay the price for it and enough of my friends will tell me so, but I don’t have many areas in America that are sacred and private anymore.  It goes from bad, to worse . . . and none of it is my doing.  You flamed a frank, open and honest opinion that stands on its own merits Mr. Anderson.  I for one don’t deserve your kind of shaming.  Your entire posted support of Al Beatty has nothing to do with what was being discussed, and you know that.  I happen to like the man a lot myself.  It doesn’t mean I have to be his or your ‘yes man’ now, does it?   I don’t think Al Beatty would want me treat him like that.  And I still think paying .12 Cents Each for a Japanese Dry Fly hook is still too much money.  The reason the prices are that high is because no one is stopping from buying them.  I won’t buy a Tiemco Hook at that price. Not when there is only three cents of material in an entire box of 100 each.  How do I know?  I was in Japan and I know about hook manufacturing.  The box or package cost more than the 100 size 16 hooks that are inside.  Think about that truth for a change and tell me, shame on me. mercy, indeed. Mr. G.

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to mr. gherke: get a life

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Al writes… The crowds on the Bighorn are not as big prior to June and after Labor Day. Even when it is crowded it is a great fishery. You can escape some of the crowds by fishing a back bays and side channels. — Mr. G Writes… CHRIST AL!  Isn’t anything sacred with you around?…Snip

Go before June or after Labor day?  I would hardly call that a big secret.  It applies to all of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, etc…oops I guess I gave away a secret too. MikeH

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PA I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but PA I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged. PA PA To Mr. G:  Shame on you! Thanks Mr. G for taking a stand against telling the world about M******’s favorite fishing spots. I like Al too, and I guess everyone has to make a living. Personally, I have witnessed far too many styrofoam worm containers on my "private" fishing stretches and I am no longer inclined to tell anyone about my favorite waters (which you will recognize from our mutual friends J & Elna) You might have been a little rough on him considering you have personally told the world about the Skwala hatch (which I personally invented for a little early season fun and don’t appreciate you sharing with others). I forgive you as long as you promise to totally mislead everyone you ever talk to from now on as to exactly what a Skwala is (bright Red with Bright Yellow Stripes);-) and NEVER, EVER tell them what continent these can be found on, much less what four rivers these can be found on. It is human nature to share something that gives us so much pleasure with others that we care about. It is also human nature for many of those others to come trash it with no regard to our feelings. Let us all learn from this experience and let others have the fun of discovering new waters all by themselves. Perhaps you were having a bad day, but I know your heart was in the right place (M******) and I for one appreciate it. I appreciate you too Al! Dennis Vick … nfx v2.6 [C0000]                                                        

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CHRIST AL!  Isn’t anything sacred with you around?  You already have Miss Horn stripped naked, and now you want everyone to rape her? What won’t you do for a buck Al as you sell Japanese and screw America in the same postings?

What’s the matter George?  Does Al keep it up better than you?  I mean his floatant of course…  I’ve said it before George, one blue pill four times a day, not four all at once.

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I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged. To Al Beatty:  Thank you for your continuing honest and accurate newsgroup postings.  I have learned from months of reading them, and from comparing them to my own experiences, that they are informative, accurate, and reliable.  You have helped me and others make occasional decisions concerning flyfishing equipment, technique, and destinations. Please continue your forthright and helpful postings to this newsgroup. To Mr. G:  Shame on you!

  Nice post Phil. As soon as I saw George’s original post, I sent an e-mail to Al, sharing the same opinions you posted to the group. After two years of lurking this ng, I’ve never seen anybody flame Al Beatty like this. Al doesn’t deserve it, his posts have been more informative than anybody’s; I hope he realizes many of us consider him to be the most knowledgable industry insider who regularly posts on this newsgroup.   There is a vast amount of FF travel info offered up in the media (print, broadcast, www, "how to" videos, etc) and I doubt if any of us hasn’t cringed to see our favorite local water hyped far and wide. I read reviews of "destination" fishing locales with passing interest; I’m hardly inclined to rush right off because some spot was highlighted in this months glossy magazine. In fact, I tend to avoid those places, assuming they will be crowded.   When I pick up a magazine and read about our local rivers I don’t condemn the author. I break out the Delorme map book and find a new place to go, way up in the high country. (Those are the spots to be kept secret, not some 1000+ cfs public waterway.)   I wish I owned my very own river, I’d invite all of you over to fish on it. But hell, there would probably be some guy complaining because I had invited all the rest of you people.                                   Charlie Wilson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I usually ignore the inane or inappropriate posts to this newsgroup, but I can’t let this infuriating one go unchallenged. (snipped) To Mr. G:  Shame on you! You are probably right Mr. Anderson but it doesn’t mean I need to tell the whole world what rivers they should attack so it can become overcrowded and ruined as ‘a quality experience’.  You take the Net’s power, too much for granted for it is an awesome thing that can  destroying the Big Horn.  In fact, it already has . . . or haven’t you noticed lately, Mr. Anderson?  Lastly, bear in mind that I’m not Al (snipped) Mr. G.

Now that we’ve brought Jesus Christ and Joan of Arc in this, why should I go where even angels will fear to tread.  Undaunted, however, I will press my point.  George, I fully support Mr. Anderson’s view, and I think you are way out of line on this one.  This is the Bighorn we are talking about, not some unknown water suddenly disclosed over the internet.   Unless you just woke up this morning from a 10 year nap, you know that it is overcrowded (at times) and overfished.  Whether or not Al or anyone else discusses the Bighorn will make no difference. I can personally vouch for the fact that Al Beatty does not post about certain rivers, or portions thereof, to avoid creating undue pressure on those areas.  With the Bighorn, however, there is no reason for him to withold helpful comments broadcast over the newsgroup, because people will go there anyway. And to Al, thanks for all of your contributions. Mark Faulkner

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks. The Bighorn in late October will not be as crowded in October as in the summer, it can still be busy. As far as the weather better bring your wool hat and gloves as well as short sleeves. It tough to predict but more likely cold rather then hot. Boats are used for transportation on the river more then for fishing. Bill Page

Seriously?  Want the truth?  There isn’t a fish there that hasn’t had a hook put into its face.  You take it from there.  And yes, you need to be guided on it in a drift boat.  You may fly fish inbetween the spin fishermen using treble hooks. And no matter what others tell you, the Mepps gang is there. Have fun. Mr. G.

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I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks.

Hi David October is my favorite time for fishing Montana (including the Bighorn). The crowds are not as bad there at that time but still expect to see a few but it shouldn’t be the zoo it is earlier in the year. You can wade fish the Bighorn but some of those places are only accessable with a drift boat. You might consider a guided trip your first day and then rent a drift boat for future days. Most of the shops in Fort Smith rent boats and shuttle for you. The weather in Montana (especially around the Bighorn) is VOLITILE (?) with 50 degree temperature swings in a matter of minutes not uncommon. Dress in layers and be prepared for anything from a hot sunny day to a snow storm all in the same afternoon. Note: If you fly into Billings and rent a car to get to Ft Smith be aware that about six miles east of town you have to take an exit to stay on I-90 east to Hardin. It’s real easy to miss the exit and end up on the Hwy east to Miles City. Good luck. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

Response:

I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks.

The Bighorn in late October will not be as crowded in October as in the summer, it can still be busy. As far as the weather better bring your wool hat and gloves as well as short sleeves. It tough to predict but more likely cold rather then hot. Boats are used for transportation on the river more then for fishing. Bill Page

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks. The Bighorn in late October will not be as crowded in October as in the summer, it can still be busy. As far as the weather better bring your wool hat and gloves as well as short sleeves. It tough to predict but more likely cold rather then hot. Boats are used for transportation on the river more then for fishing. Bill Page

Seriously?  Want the truth?  There isn’t a fish there that hasn’t had a hook put into its face.  You take it from there.  And yes, you need to be guided on it in a drift boat.  You may fly fish inbetween the spin fishermen using treble hooks. Have fun. Mr. G.

Response:

I’m thinking of trying the Bighorn River near Ft. Smith in late October. Is there wade fishing available or must I float to fish? What is the weather likely to be that time of the year? I read the Bighorn is VERY crowded. How about in late October? If anyone has any information I’d really appreciate the help. Thanks.

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Question:

That’s true. Starting with the RPL+ rods, at least that’s what my flyshop guys said. Gerhard

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"Sage rods, reels and blanks carry an unconditional, original-owner guarantee. Regardless of cause, Sage will promptly repair or replace any rod, reel or blank that is defective or damaged free of charge. In addition, we promise to give you the best service and repair in the industry and we will return ship your rod, reel or blank within 7 working days" That is right off of the back cover of the 1996 Sage catalog. The same warranty also applies to Lamson reels. Clay

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Summary: Sage Unconditional Lifetime Warrenty?  A tackle shop guy told me that next year Sage rods will have an unconditional lifetime warrenty. So if your dog chews up the Sage years from now Sage will fix or replace it free with no questions asked. Can anyone confirm or deny this statement? -regards Wayne V Ohh.. the tackle guy also stated the price will be increasing 7%.

Wayne, your source was correct.  The rods will have an unconditional warranty.  Prices are going up and they have a new series of rods the Rpl +.  They look really good.  We have found that they cast better with more control than the Rpl’s.  The Rpl 4 pieces have been dropped so if you want one better grab it now. Ken

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That’s true. Starting with the RPL+ rods, at least that’s what my flyshop guys said. Gerhard

I’ve also heard the warranty applies to blanks as well. Very good news. Bob Petti Endwell, NY

Response:

(SNIP) That is right off of the back cover of the 1996 Sage catalog. The same warranty also applies to Lamson reels.

Which are now owned by Sage, right? Bob Petti Endwell, NY

Response:

   The "lifetime replacement guarantee" on the label doesn’t tell the whole story. Most manufacturer’s will replace a broken rod for relatively little money.    We break many rods in our flyfishing classes. For fun we sent back a broken rod each to SAGE, LOOMIS, FENWICK, WINSTON and SCOTT. We used a friends letterhead and return address so the companies wouldn’t have incentive to treat us any better than their regular rod repair/replacement.    SAGE: We sent the rod in on Monday and had a new one on Thursday (Blue Label UPS). We have broken several Sage rods, and all of them have been replaced within a week. Incredible service like this should be rewarded.    LOOMIS: They sent us reciept of our broken rod and had us verify shipping address. Total turn around was 8 working days and cost was $30.00 for a new tip.    FENWICK: They sent us a new rod in three weeks but it was the wrong rod. We called them and they arranged for us to pick up a new one off a local dealer’s shelf.    WINSTON: This was the only rod sent with a defect (The internal ferrule fell out). They took 6 weeks to repair the rod then charged us $30.00. We made a complaint on plain stationary and they stood by their charge. We made a second complaint on our flyfishing school letterhead and they not only reversed the charge but sent us a couple of hats.    SCOTT: It took 5 months and two phone calls to get the rod back. I hate to say this because I love Scott rods and am good friends with many of their staff. Tight lines, Ralph Cutter —

Response:

  A tackle shop guy told me that next year Sage rods will have an  unconditional lifetime warrenty. So if your dog chews up the Sage  years from now Sage will fix or replace it free with no questions  asked.  Can anyone confirm or deny this statement?  -regards  Wayne V  Ohh.. the tackle guy also stated the price will be increasing 7%.

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Question:

Micek) writes: Vancouver Island fishing is beginning to approach a time of great hope, but will it be like so many other dreams?  Fishing for the Pinks in the Oyster has been disappointing to date.  Does anyone have any good stories to tell?

I wish I had a good story to tell.  This is a "me too" post.  I’ll be on a floating lodge called North Pacific Springs for the Labor Day weekend.  It’s on the inner passage.  I’d like to hear some good stories and suggestions as well. I know my destination is not a flyfishing operation.  They generally troll bait on downriggers for salmon, and jig for halibut.  However, the guides seem willing to humor me.  I’ll spend some time boating from the lodge, and I’ll also do a float plane fly out (tentatively to Kaipit Lake). Any stories or suggestions on how to make the most out of the flyfishing (flies, techniques, locations, etc.) are greatly appreciated. -Chuck

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Vancouver Island fishing is beginning to approach a time of great hope, but will it be like so many other dreams?  Fishing for the Pinks in the Oyster has been disappointing to date.  Does anyone have any good stories to tell?

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