Question:

Paint

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember, PVC pipe left in the sun gets brittle, it might help keep them from cracking. http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/

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what about  filling the tubes with foam?  a quick option might be a macroflex type squirt foam that people use for insulation, or what about pool noodles?  ever taken a couple and tied them to make a floating chair? fun stuff.  anyhow, could find some pool noodles and stuff them in the pvc pipes.  whatever… sounds like a fun project. doftya – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hell, I liked the original poster’s original idea – PVC pipe. I’ve seen this done, I know folks locally who made floating duck blinds like that. They used fairly large diameter pipe, and capped the ends with glued-on caps. Easy, strong, effective. Mr. Has A Horrible Headache How about 5 gal. plastic buckets? Any new home under construction that is in the drywall phase will have lots of drywall compound buckets and the lids. Just make sure you ask before you take them! Barrells tend to make the raft ride too high (I built one as a kid). Difficult to climb aboard without a long boarding ladder. For stabililty you need four so that makes a pretty large raft, maybe more than you had in mind.

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Hello.  I am told sometimes making rafts is discussed here.  If not, perhaps some of you can direct me to another newsgroup.  My husband and I want to make a light weight raft for our pond without spending a fortune.  We were thinking of PVC pipe for the bottom as pontoons of sorts.  Any ideas?                 Many Thanks, Becky

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My husband and I want to make a light weight raft for our pond without spending a fortune.  We were thinking of PVC pipe for the bottom as pontoons of sorts.  Any ideas?                Many Thanks, Becky

 Milk jugs and pallets.  Nothing beats free.  Really as for a raft for the pond, only your imagination is the limit since no ones life is really at stake on it. Have fun and play around. http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/

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Unless you can find PVC on the side of the road you will probably find it pretty expensive. You probably need 12" and the caps (expensive too). Another option would be poly drums. Styrofoam blocks are cheaper but there is some ecological concern if they are not encapsulated. If they crumble up the lake will have the pieces floating around for a while. I have seen rafts made with concrete forming (cardboard) tubes but they won’t last very long unless you saturate them with epoxy resin or something.

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Empty beer kegs provide excellent flotation. The best procedure, of course, is to buy them full and empty them during the summer-long "design phase." The raft won’t get built right away, but who’s to care?

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Empty beer kegs provide excellent flotation.

The best procedure, of course, is to buy them full and empty them during the summer-long "design phase."<< — Gould I thought you had to take the empties back. OT Archie Bunker quote: "You can never buy beer – you only rent it."

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We used to make them out of metal 55 gallon barrels. I imagine plastic would be even better nowadays. Cheap, maybe free depending on where you find them. Hello.  I am told sometimes making rafts is discussed here.  If not, perhaps some of you can direct me to another newsgroup.  My husband and I want to make a light weight raft for our pond without spending a fortune.  We were thinking of PVC pipe for the bottom as pontoons of sorts.  Any ideas?                 Many Thanks, Becky

– Keith In the ongoing battle between objects made of fiberglass going tens of miles per hour and the shore going zero miles per hour, the shore has yet to lose.

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You might want to try the newsgroup call " rec.boats.building".  There was a thread there some months back where someone posted a similar question and received a lot of responses to help him calculate the size of pipe needed based on weight and bouyancy needs. BillS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I am told sometimes making rafts is discussed here.  If not, perhaps some of you can direct me to another newsgroup.  My husband and I want to make a light weight raft for our pond without spending a fortune.  We were thinking of PVC pipe for the bottom as pontoons of sorts.  Any ideas?                 Many Thanks, Becky

Response:

Barrells tend to make the raft ride too high (I built one as a kid). Difficult to climb aboard without a long boarding ladder. For stabililty you need four so that makes a pretty large raft, maybe more than you had in mind. To reduce the freeboard, you could let water into the drums to ballast it down. I wouldn’t recomend steel drums, even if your are in a freshwater pond. I learned from experience that drums, once they leak and fill, are amost impossible to get out of even a shallow pond. You can’t drain the water out until you get them on dry land. Have you ever tried to roll a 300 lb drum in mud?? So if you go the drum route, I recommend you get the plastic ones and also get new gaskets for the bungs. The old ones will usually not seal properly. There are some smaller drums in plastic. I think 20 gal., they would be perfect. Around here, some of the marinas float their docks on tires filled with foam. I think they stack about 3 tires and fill them with pour-in-place foam. Then they build the dock on top of a series of these tire floats. They have a funny bounce when you walk on them, especially if they are only two tire floats wide. Those who use the styrofoam floats are required to incapsolate them to prevent the crabs from tearing the foam apart and floating around for eternity. One method was to wrap them in several layers of garbage bags before putting them under the raft or dock. Seems to last for a few years. I strongly recommend that you turn this project over to a couple 12 year old boys with access to a lot of scrap lumber, nails, a hammer and a saw. "And then a future boat builder is born." It would be a shame to take this rare opportunity away from those who deserve that ‘life experience’ and have some adult delute it with technical stuff. — My experience and opinion, FWIW. Steve S/V Good Intentions

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Hello.  I am told sometimes making rafts is discussed here.  If not, perhaps some of you can direct me to another newsgroup.  My husband and I want to make a light weight raft for our pond without spending a fortune.  We were thinking of PVC pipe for the bottom as pontoons of sorts.  Any ideas?                Many Thanks, Becky

Check around to the pool cleaning companies in your area.  They all get many chemicals for swimming pools in these neat, resealable, poly containers that usually just get thrown out.  Start collecting them cheap or free.  You might also check around for a company specializing in 55 gallon drums.  They have many usable discards you might find just right for your float.  We used to weld them together and make pontoon boats out of them….two lines of 55 gal oil drums welded together into pontoons with the front end one bent up into a "bow" so it would pass through the water smoothly….(c; Larry

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How about 5 gal. plastic buckets? Any new home under construction that is in the drywall phase will have lots of drywall compound buckets and the lids. Just make sure you ask before you take them! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Barrells tend to make the raft ride too high (I built one as a kid). Difficult to climb aboard without a long boarding ladder. For stabililty you need four so that makes a pretty large raft, maybe more than you had in mind.

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The lid seals are seldom reuseable. From my experience, the gasket pulls out upon intial removal of the lid. However you can purchase new lids for a couple bucks a the home improvement store. Good suggestion. Steve s/v Good Intentions

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How about 5 gal. plastic buckets?  Any new home under construction that is in

the drywall phase will have lots of drywall compound buckets and the lids.<< — Kelly Wouldn’t you need to seal the lids on with adhesive?

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How about 5 gal. plastic buckets?  Any new home under construction that is in the drywall phase will have lots of drywall compound buckets and the lids.<< — Kelly Wouldn’t you need to seal the lids on with adhesive?

Silly-cone caulk would work. db

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The problem with the plastic buckets is that they will be toast if left in the sun for any time.  After a few months in the sun, you can break the edges of your typical "pickle bucket" with your fingers.  Most marine supply store sell rectangular sealed poly boxes with UV stabilized plastic.  They are made to serve as floats for docks and such.  Those would work, and they even have grooves and eye-holes for attaching together or securing to the wooden dock. BillS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about 5 gal. plastic buckets? Any new home under construction that is in the drywall phase will have lots of drywall compound buckets and the lids. Just make sure you ask before you take them! Barrells tend to make the raft ride too high (I built one as a kid). Difficult to climb aboard without a long boarding ladder. For stabililty you need four so that makes a pretty large raft, maybe more than you had in mind.

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Not the plastic buckets I have around here (contractor plaster pails). These things are like an ex-wife, they never go away. I’ve had a couple sitting outside in the weather and sun for over 6 years to water my dog (pails, not ex-wives).  I just gave one a big kick yesterday because it was in my way (pail, not ex-wife). I have other sitting around with drain holes and filled with scrap lead. Even the handles allow me to lift them (albeit, not very high or far). I’d say there pretty tough and enduring. It’s the lids that never seem to last if  you can get them with the pails. (now if the ex-wife came with a lid, maybe I could shut her up also.) — My experience and opinion, FWIW. Steve S/V Good Intentions

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Hell, I liked the original poster’s original idea – PVC pipe. I’ve seen this done, I know folks locally who made floating duck blinds like that. They used fairly large diameter pipe, and capped the ends with glued-on caps. Easy, strong, effective. Mr. Has A Horrible Headache

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about 5 gal. plastic buckets? Any new home under construction that is in the drywall phase will have lots of drywall compound buckets and the lids. Just make sure you ask before you take them! Barrells tend to make the raft ride too high (I built one as a kid). Difficult to climb aboard without a long boarding ladder. For stabililty you need four so that makes a pretty large raft, maybe more than you had in mind.

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Not the plastic buckets I have around here (contractor plaster pails). These things are like an ex-wife, they never go away.

Ppppfffftttt… Damn…grumble grumble keyboard grumble… http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/

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There was discussion on building pontoon boats for one-man fishing floats out of 12" PVC pipe on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly maybe a year ago.  One of the regulars on that group regularly fishes the Baltic one one of these craft.  He STRONGLY recommends filling the pontoons with stryrofoam.  

  That sounds like a real good idea.  It’ll also strengthen them.  Remember, PVC pipe left in the sun gets brittle, it might help keep them from cracking. http://hometown.aol.com/hlaviation/

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Well, what wonderful imaginative ideas!  We are so very grateful for the great response.  Many thanks.   Becky & Roy

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We used to pay $5 for the used poly drums from the barrel supplier.  They have some that are watertight, but can not store certain items in.  So they sell them cheap. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I am told sometimes making rafts is discussed here.  If not, perhaps some of you can direct me to another newsgroup.  My husband and I want to make a light weight raft for our pond without spending a fortune.  We were thinking of PVC pipe for the bottom as pontoons of sorts.  Any ideas?                Many Thanks, Becky Check around to the pool cleaning companies in your area.  They all get many chemicals for swimming pools in these neat, resealable, poly containers that usually just get thrown out.  Start collecting them cheap or free.  You might also check around for a company specializing in 55 gallon drums.  They have many usable discards you might find just right for your float.  We used to weld them together and make pontoon boats out of them….two lines of 55 gal oil drums welded together into pontoons with the front end one bent up into a "bow" so it would pass through the water smoothly….(c; Larry

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Agreed, foam-filled would be desirable on a boat.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There was discussion on building pontoon boats for one-man fishing floats out of 12" PVC pipe on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly maybe a year ago.  One of the regulars on that group regularly fishes the Baltic one one of these craft.  He STRONGLY recommends filling the pontoons with stryrofoam.  If the pontoons get holed or otherwise leaky you need something in them to keep them from filling with water and sinking. john message Hell, I liked the original poster’s original idea – PVC pipe. I’ve seen this done, I know folks locally who made floating duck blinds like that. They used fairly large diameter pipe, and capped the ends with glued-on caps. Easy, strong, effective. Mr. Has A Horrible Headache How about 5 gal. plastic buckets? Any new home under construction that is in the drywall phase will have lots of drywall compound buckets and the lids. Just make sure you ask before you take them! Barrells tend to make the raft ride too high (I built one as a kid). Difficult to climb aboard without a long boarding ladder. For stabililty you need four so that makes a pretty large raft, maybe more than you had in mind.

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There was discussion on building pontoon boats for one-man fishing floats out of 12" PVC pipe on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly maybe a year ago.  One of the regulars on that group regularly fishes the Baltic one one of these craft.  He STRONGLY recommends filling the pontoons with stryrofoam.  If the pontoons get holed or otherwise leaky you need something in them to keep them from filling with water and sinking. john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hell, I liked the original poster’s original idea – PVC pipe. I’ve seen this done, I know folks locally who made floating duck blinds like that. They used fairly large diameter pipe, and capped the ends with glued-on caps. Easy, strong, effective. Mr. Has A Horrible Headache How about 5 gal. plastic buckets? Any new home under construction that is in the drywall phase will have lots of drywall compound buckets and the lids. Just make sure you ask before you take them! Barrells tend to make the raft ride too high (I built one as a kid). Difficult to climb aboard without a long boarding ladder. For stabililty you need four so that makes a pretty large raft, maybe more than you had in mind.

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Question:

The weather has finally warmed, water temps are up, ospreys are feeding chicks, bass are close in, panfish are feeding, the lake and river are full of gators vying for mates. On the beaches the salts are moving in close, sharks are biting, herons are stalking the water again with purpose. Starlings and robins have moved through. All is green (though dry) with the smell of magnolias, honeysuckle , confederate jasmine and citrus blossoms. In the cool damp mornings I wonder how anyone could live without the soothing of the senses in the south. Now if we could just get some rain paradise would be revived. — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

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John, as much as I disliked my short residence in Orlando, you write of all the things I DID love about being there.  Nothing like my little weekend jaunts into the swamps around Hunters Creek for bluegill, bass, gator dodging, wildlife watching, solitude, silence….or the occasional drive to Canaveral Seashore for a little surf fishing with a fly. Ohhhhh, sweet memories…. Bruce Thomsen

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Question:

Anyone have any experience flyfishing in PR or Vieques? We’re headed there shortly and need any info you guys & ladies might have. Thanks, Bill Way

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Im told that Vieques can be quite a blast. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any experience flyfishing in PR or Vieques? We’re headed there shortly and need any info you guys & ladies might have. Thanks, Bill Way

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I spent a couple of months down there in the US Navy and I had a blast with the baracuda, gar, croaker, and tarpon. All over the area. You will love it. make sure you have some braided leaders or wire of some sorts. ‘Cudas bite right through it. Also need som 10-20 pound leaders and tippet material. The best colors were blue/white and chartreuse/white. Others worked but not as well. I caught many other species of fish, but I couldn’t tell you what they were. Hope you enjoy the fishing. There are some flats to chose from as well as some good accessible deeper areas. Good fishing Gordo When in doubt, toss ‘em a fly. Who knows, may be your day. Gordo

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Interested in fly fishing and fishing Puerto Rico? See www.fishinginpuertorico.com for more information. Mark V. <’< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent a couple of months down there in the US Navy and I had a blast with the baracuda, gar, croaker, and tarpon. All over the area. You will love it. make sure you have some braided leaders or wire of some sorts. ‘Cudas bite right through it. Also need som 10-20 pound leaders and tippet material. The best colors were blue/white and chartreuse/white. Others worked but not as well. I caught many other species of fish, but I couldn’t tell you what they were. Hope you enjoy the fishing. There are some flats to chose from as well as some good accessible deeper areas. Good fishing Gordo When in doubt, toss ‘em a fly. Who knows, may be your day. Gordo

Before you buy.

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Question:

Northern Colorado is a pretty big area, Are you coming from Ft. Collins or Steamboat or Rangely or what? The Poudre or Big Thomson rivers are good. A sixteen incher is a trophy and 12" is more common but there are a lot of them.  If you are going into the North Park area the North Platte river can be great and so can Delaney Buttes or Lake John. Small streams will also be good, you need to be more specific though, like I said it is a big area. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try the White river near Meeker. The largest rainbow I ever hooked was near downtown Meeker. Good luck. Could someone recomend a good trout stream or lake in the northern part of Colorado around the last part of this month?

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Going west out of Fort Collins – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Northern Colorado is a pretty big area, Are you coming from Ft. Collins or Steamboat or Rangely or what? The Poudre or Big Thomson rivers are good. A sixteen incher is a trophy and 12" is more common but there are a lot of them.  If you are going into the North Park area the North Platte river can be great and so can Delaney Buttes or Lake John. Small streams will also be good, you need to be more specific though, like I said it is a big area. Try the White river near Meeker. The largest rainbow I ever hooked was near downtown Meeker. Good luck. Could someone recomend a good trout stream or lake in the northern part of Colorado around the last part of this month?

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Try the White river near Meeker. The largest rainbow I ever hooked was near downtown Meeker. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone recomend a good trout stream or lake in the northern part of Colorado around the last part of this month?

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Could someone recomend a good trout stream or lake in the northern part of Colorado around the last part of this month?

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What can I expect in the way of fly fishing, the middle to last part of Sept. on the Poude river??

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September and October are my favorite months. No tourists, low clear water.  Be prepared to fish small stuff 18 and below. Cloudy days bring out some size 20 mayflies and midges are always on the menu. Weather throughout September is generally good. Have you fished the Poudre? Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What can I expect in the way of fly fishing, the middle to last part of Sept. on the Poude river??

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Question:

Hello, all… I am leaving for Minnesota (from Michigan) this Saturday morning on a week fishing & camping trip. Can anyone tell me good places for fly-fishing?  Good places for trout, smallmouth bass, etc… I am species indifferent.

Without knowing where you are going to be, I would have to say that anywhere is just fine. 14,000 lakes are filled with bass and sunnies galore.  Carp too, if you can get one. There are plenty of rivers offering smallies, drum, white bass, etc. The trout live in the northeast area above Duluth and also in the southeast along the Whitewater and Root river systems. Have fun and leave a few for the locals. Jon Russell FlyFish Minnesota

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Hello, all… I am leaving for Minnesota (from Michigan) this Saturday morning on a week fishing & camping trip. Can anyone tell me good places for fly-fishing?  Good places for trout, smallmouth bass, etc… I am species indifferent. Thanks, –Kris Jacobs Kalamazoo, MI

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: Hello, all… I am leaving for Minnesota (from Michigan) this Saturday : morning on a week fishing & camping trip. : Can anyone tell me good places for fly-fishing?  Good places for trout, : smallmouth bass, etc… I am species indifferent. Geez….. That state is a fair sized piece of real estate! How far are you willing to drive?  Could you be a little more particular about which corner your gonna be in? If it were up to me, I’d go straight to the BWCA.  But then again, I’m gonna be there next month. — Jon Porter

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Question:

Morgan Brown < Congratulations, and welcome to flyfishing. The way you so vividly described your experience lends to my belief that your heart in is the right place for it. And secondly that you minor in literature or writing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve only been fishing for a couple months now, but the whole flyfishing experience has been a rebirth for my interest in fishing and of the outdoors.  Living in Golden, CO this summer, I’ve found the South Platte River near Fairplay to be an excellent fishing environment – close, uncrowded, full of trout, and beautiful. I fished the South Fork of the S. Platte near Hartsel one Sunday afternoon, still struggling to master the intricacies of actually fishing on the river, more concerned with my ability to snag and lose flies than to catch fish.  The sun edged toward the horizon, giving the remnants of afternoon thunderstorms a warm and heavenly golden-orange hue, and silhouetting the 14,000-foot peaks to the west.  Wading upstream in the gurgling, tepid flow of the stream, I casted to each alluring, grassy cut bank, struggling to keep my elk-hair caddis fly floating freely, scarcely believing that I could convince a brown trout that my offering was edible!  I gently placed my fly between an undercut grassy bank and a large boulder, when in a rush of fury, a decent-sized fish head roiled the water in the vicinity of my fly.  Madly, I stripped line toward me, trying to hook the fish.  Thankfully, he stayed on, and fought like a champion, rushing upstream, then downstream, around in circles, vigorously trying to throw my fly.  Finally I subdued the fish, gently cradling a beautiful 12" brown trout in my hands.  After I unhooked the exhausted fish and revived him in the steady current, I sat down on the cool, grassy bank, feeling the pleasant life-blood current of the stream course past my legs, and watched the slowly setting sun signal the end of day in God’s country.  I had experienced something that embodied true peace.  I stood in the stream, feeling nature rushing past my ankles.  I stalked the trout as I would a brother, fighting and beating him with all my heart, then released him as an equal, so we might fight again.  As visions of the madly-whirling world to which I would be forced to return flashed before my eyes, I wondered to myself: "How many of those people have caught a trout on a fly rod?"  Not many. Not many. — MORGAN P. BROWN                     Colorado School of Mines             Rice University                     Phone:   (303) 215-9190 URL:     http://timna.mines.edu/~mbrown           http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~mpbro

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Just plain wonderfull. –tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Morgan Brown < Congratulations, and welcome to flyfishing. The way you so vividly described your experience lends to my belief that your heart in is the right place for it. And secondly that you minor in literature or writing. I’ve only been fishing for a couple months now, but the whole flyfishing experience has been a rebirth for my interest in fishing and of the outdoors.  Living in Golden, CO this summer, I’ve found the South Platte River near Fairplay to be an excellent fishing environment – close, uncrowded, full of trout, and beautiful. I fished the South Fork of the S. Platte near Hartsel one Sunday afternoon, still struggling to master the intricacies of actually fishing on the river, more concerned with my ability to snag and lose flies than to catch fish.  The sun edged toward the horizon, giving the remnants of afternoon thunderstorms a warm and heavenly golden-orange hue, and silhouetting the 14,000-foot peaks to the west.  Wading upstream in the gurgling, tepid flow of the stream, I casted to each alluring, grassy cut bank, struggling to keep my elk-hair caddis fly floating freely, scarcely believing that I could convince a brown trout that my offering was edible!  I gently placed my fly between an undercut grassy bank and a large boulder, when in a rush of fury, a decent-sized fish head roiled the water in the vicinity of my fly.  Madly, I stripped line toward me, trying to hook the fish.  Thankfully, he stayed on, and fought like a champion, rushing upstream, then downstream, around in circles, vigorously trying to throw my fly.  Finally I subdued the fish, gently cradling a beautiful 12" brown trout in my hands.  After I unhooked the exhausted fish and revived him in the steady current, I sat down on the cool, grassy bank, feeling the pleasant life-blood current of the stream course past my legs, and watched the slowly setting sun signal the end of day in God’s country.  I had experienced something that embodied true peace.  I stood in the stream, feeling nature rushing past my ankles.  I stalked the trout as I would a brother, fighting and beating him with all my heart, then released him as an equal, so we might fight again.  As visions of the madly-whirling world to which I would be forced to return flashed before my eyes, I wondered to myself: "How many of those people have caught a trout on a fly rod?"  Not many. Not many. — MORGAN P. BROWN Colorado School of Mines Rice University Phone:   (303) 215-9190 URL:     http://timna.mines.edu/~mbrown         http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~mpbro

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Question:

Steve, It sounds an awful lot like a trermocline to me. Did your friend  try to look below this light line? Whenever I have seen the thermocline I am always able to see bottom also and im sure he to should have been able to see bottom.  I guess you will have to ask him but to answer your question yes sonar does pick up thermoclines,but remember not every lake will develope one every year! It just depends on the conditions Good Luck Weedjig

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anybody clear up an issue.  A friend fished a couple of fly-in Canadian lakes last year and said that the edges sloped off fairly steeply, lots of rocks, etc., but that at about 20-25 feet the bottom became uniformly flat across the basin, with a weak echo return.  He assumed that this indicated an old lake bottom that had silted in, so there was just a featureless expanse of mud. These weren’t tiny lakes and I have some difficulty imagining that kind of siltation.  I seem to recall reading something about sonar echoes being intercepted and bounced back by the thermocline (epilimnion or hypolimnion, I’m not sure) when a lake has stratified (In-Fisherman, I think).  This was the beginning of July and the weather had been hot and dry.  The water was warm enough to swim in. Could this be a cuase of the aforementioned sonar readings?  We are going up again this year and I would really like to know if this might be the case? Thanks loads.

With a paper graph (Eagle or Lowrance X-16) it is very easy to adjust the unit to see the thermocline and the bottom at the same time.  To support your theory, 20 to 25 feet deep seems to be a realistic depth for a thermo- cline in mid summer that far north. Easiest way to test — use a hand line with depth markings or mark your fishing line with a permanent marker ko

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The flat ‘bottom’ reading could certainly be the thermocline.  It is very rare for any lake to have a uniformly flat bottom, especially Canadian shield lakes. Try adjusting the sensitivity up and down (mostly down in this case) to filter out unwanted signal and returns.  Also, be sure and turn the fish ID feature off if your unit has one.  Fish ID is not reliable for recognizing fish signals.  Any return not close to the bottom will show up a a "fish", and it may not be.  Some units also loose much detail in the displayed signal when the fish ID is on. Enjoy your Canadian trip!  I have to skip my Canada trip this summer and will be going through severe withdrawl!  I guess I’ll just have to fish more at home instead CHPeil!

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Can anybody clear up an issue.  A friend fished a couple of fly-in Canadian lakes last year and said that the edges sloped off fairly steeply, lots of rocks, etc., but that at about 20-25 feet the bottom became uniformly flat across the basin, with a weak echo return.  He assumed that this indicated an old lake bottom that had silted in, so there was just a featureless expanse of mud. These weren’t tiny lakes and I have some difficulty imagining that kind of siltation.  I seem to recall reading something about sonar echoes being intercepted and bounced back by the thermocline (epilimnion or hypolimnion, I’m not sure) when a lake has stratified (In-Fisherman, I think).  This was the beginning of July and the weather had been hot and dry.  The water was warm enough to swim in. Could this be a cuase of the aforementioned sonar readings?  We are going up again this year and I would really like to know if this might be the case? Thanks loads.  

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Question:

I’m wondering, would my posts be more effective or less if I filed down the barbs ? TimW

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I’m wondering, would my posts be more effective or less if I filed down the barbs ? TimW

Tim  Nah, there’ rd be no "point"  ;-)     Harry

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I’m wondering, would my posts be more effective or less if I filed down the barbs ? TimW

Gee Tim, Ya never know ’till ya try, right?  Just think, if you were into barbless catch & release fishing, you could do a whole lot _more_ fishing and whole lot _less_ getting flamed around here!  :-)  Nah, as far as I’m concerned, leave your posts barbed.  Doesn’t bother me; ‘like water off a duck’s back.  Whether your hooks are barbed is your business.   Tight lines, Tim. -Mark

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering, would my posts be more effective or less if I filed down the barbs ? TimW Tim Nah, there’ rd be no "point"  ;-)    Harry

His posts are often pointless but seldom barbless!

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Tim, For heavens sake don’t do that.  If it weren’t for you and Rick there would be little humor in this group. Rather than filing them down, make them sharper. Dave

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering, would my posts be more effective or less if I filed down the barbs ? TimW Tim Nah, there’ rd be no "point"  ;-)    Harry His posts are often pointless but seldom barbless!

I bet to differ.  Just because you don’t agree with the point that he is making doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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: Rather than filing them down, make them sharper. I think you meant to say "make them more sharper". — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: Rather than filing them down, make them sharper. I think you meant to say "make them more sharper".

Shouldn’t that be "make them more sharp". — regards Simon

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: Rather than filing them down, make them sharper. I think you meant to say "make them more sharper". Shouldn’t that be "make them more sharp".

’sharpen them further’?  :^) Rik ‘Now there are 29 skaters on Wollman rink  circling in singles and in pairs               -Joni Mitchell  in this vigorous anonymity  a blank face at the window stares and stares and stares….’

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For us saltwater flyrodders on the flats, filing down (actually I use a pair of of pliers to "Flatten" the barb) the barb is common because when you set the hook you have to use less effort to set a debarbed hook than a barbed hook. Why? Because you have to create a hole the size of the point and bard (on barbed hooks) whereas with debarbed hooks you make a hole only big enough for the hook point to pass through.

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: Rather than filing them down, make them sharper. I think you meant to say "make them more sharper". Shouldn’t that be "make them more sharp". ’sharpen them further’?  :^)

This thread is getting duller. Jon

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I’m wondering, would my posts be more effective or less if I filed down the barbs ? TimW

Tim don’t file em. Just crush em with a pair of pliers. And if you don’t want to I’m sure there will always be someone willing to crush your barbs for you !

Response:

I’m wondering, would my posts be more effective or less if I filed down the barbs ? TimW Tim don’t file em. Just crush em with a pair of pliers. And if you don’t want to I’m sure there will always be someone willing to crush your barbs for you !

But when you crush the barb there is the possiblity that the point will be weakened! Darry Hayashida

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Tim, You outdid yourself. Really got me hooked. If you get the point, file it for future useage. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m wondering, would my posts be more effective or less if I filed down the barbs ? TimW

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Question:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan

told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

I think I should look at St. Croix rods.

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: I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan : told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. : Croix.  What do yall think of that?? : Frankie : I think I should look at St. Croix rods. It’s possible. St. Croix makes blanks and rods for a lot ofpeople- I believe Cortland rods are almost identical- if not identical- to St. Croix rods. I own 3 St. Croixs, and they are, I think, a remarkable value. –mike

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

 I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I do know that a couple years ago  I read that St Croix is the largest American fabricator of blanks and rods.  This includes fly, spinning, casting, trolling, ice, surf.  They make rods  for Cortland, Gander Mountain and I believe some of the low end Cabela’s and  Bean’s.  A fellow I met a few years ago had an 8′ 4wt Orvis Green Mountain that he  says he picked up as a second at the St. Croix outlet store.  As he told  the story, he took the rod back a few days later because of a minor problem  and they fixed it, but were very red-faced in that someone apparently made  a mistake by putting the rod out on their seconds display rack.  Apparently,  none of the Orvis rods were ever to be sold or seen in their store.

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

I’m shocked!   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

The basic techniques of rod building are common to all rod manufacturers. The differences lie in a) the design of the mandrel over which the rod blank is built. b) the choice of materials: the choice of resin, the grade of graphite etc.  It should be noted that none of the rod manufacturers make their own sheets of prepreg graphite. c) Fussiness.  Different brands are more or less stringent about what they call a second or a reject.  This is one of the major reasons why extremely light blanks are expensive; you have to pay for all the rejects as well as the one that made it out the door. d) Finish and fittings. Even if St Croix makes rods for Orvis, that does not mean that the other St Croix rods are equivalent to the Orvis ones.  It simply means that St Croix can be relied upon to follow Orvis’s instructions.  Remember, when you contract with someone to build rods on your mandrels, you debar them from using your mandrels for their own or for anyone else’s rods.  Remember also that there is no reason why St Croix should use the same materials or quality control standards for their own rods as for the Orvis rods.  If the Orvis standards drive up the unit cost, then St Croix will not be able to sell faux Orvis rods at a price that suits their market niche. None of the above indicates that there is necessarily anything wrong with St Croix’s rods.  It just shows that it is fallacious to conclude that different brands are the same just because they come out of the same factory. It was reported in another post that St Croix does not make PM10 rods. This rumour-cum-fact suggests that St Croix could not produce these rods at a competitive price.  On the other hand, maybe St Croix simply lacked the capacity to fill the demand. It is fun to share scuttlebut and to arch ones eyebrows, but rumours should not be taken too seriously.  There is no way any of us will ever find out about the details of design, material, or quality control that distinguish good rods from great rods. — Keep your stick on the ice.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie The basic techniques of rod building are common to all rod manufacturers. The differences lie in a) the design of the mandrel over which the rod blank is built. b) the choice of materials: the choice of resin, the grade of graphite etc.  It should be noted that none of the rod manufacturers make their own sheets of prepreg graphite. c) Fussiness.  Different brands are more or less stringent about what they call a second or a reject.  This is one of the major reasons why extremely light blanks are expensive; you have to pay for all the rejects as well as the one that made it out the door. d) Finish and fittings. Even if St Croix makes rods for Orvis, that does not mean that the other St Croix rods are equivalent to the Orvis ones.  It simply means that St Croix can be relied upon to follow Orvis’s instructions.  Remember, when you contract with someone to build rods on your mandrels, you debar them from using your mandrels for their own or for anyone else’s rods.  Remember also that there is no reason why St Croix should use the same materials or quality control standards for their own rods as for the Orvis rods.  If the Orvis standards drive up the unit cost, then St Croix will not be able to sell faux Orvis rods at a price that suits their market niche. None of the above indicates that there is necessarily anything wrong with St Croix’s rods.  It just shows that it is fallacious to conclude that different brands are the same just because they come out of the same factory. It was reported in another post that St Croix does not make PM10 rods. This rumour-cum-fact suggests that St Croix could not produce these rods at a competitive price.  On the other hand, maybe St Croix simply lacked the capacity to fill the demand. It is fun to share scuttlebut and to arch ones eyebrows, but rumours should not be taken too seriously.  There is no way any of us will ever find out about the details of design, material, or quality control that distinguish good rods from great rods.

Well there is one way. Line-up the rod, cast it.  If you like it buy it. It doesn’t matter if it was made by Fisher-Price.  A name brand does not add to ability but a good casting rod will.  Now I know that we all know this but it seems the subject keeps going back to the name on the rod instead of the quality of the rod.  Just my 2 cents. Tom

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

Sounds great to me.  I’d like to pick up even an orvis-quality cane rod at a St.Croix price.  Ask your shopowner for a St. Croix Wes Jordan model  ;) Mark Vinsel Fly fishing therapy – get in touch with your inner geezer.

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that??

I’ve taken a tour of Orvis’ rod shop in Manchester. They may buy some blanks for St. Croix, but I’m not sure. It seems much more likely that they’re made in some sweat shop in Singapore than that they pay St. Croix for it. But I seem to remember watching sheets of graphite being rolled into blanks while I was there. It’s a pretty impressive operation. If you happen to be around Manchester and aren’t too much of an anti-Orvis bigot, it might be worth seeing if you can take a rod-shop tour. Watching them work on the cane rods is particularly interesting. Dave Guinee

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie snip It is fun to share scuttlebut and to arch ones eyebrows, but rumours should not be taken too seriously.  There is no way any of us will ever find out about the details of design, material, or quality control that distinguish good rods from great rods. Well there is one way. Line-up the rod, cast it.  If you like it buy it. It doesn’t matter if it was made by Fisher-Price.  A name brand does not add to ability but a good casting rod will.  Now I know that we all know this but it seems the subject keeps going back to the name on the rod instead of the quality of the rod.  Just my 2 cents. Tom

True enough, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.  My point was that we do not have access to the pudding’s recipe. — Keep your stick on the ice.

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie I’m shocked!

But, guess what- It’s true !

Response:

Question:

I believe you mean Angling Specialties in Concord, don’t you. You could do a lot worse. They run a good shop in my view. They also have branches in Mississauga and Scarborough. Skinners in fine and with a long .. um .. "tradition" … which along with the expensive real estate tends to be a factor on your bill. — David A. Calderisi

Response:

Does any one Know of any fly shops in the greater Toronto area?? I’ve been to Fishing Specialties in Concord just north of Toronto. I would like to know if there are any others.

Loris; Skinner Sport, 50 King Street East, Toronto         Right downtown, great store (biggest collection of flies I’ve ever seen) good people if a little strange. If you want an Orvis shop there is a new(er) one in Fergus about an hour away. Grand River Troutfitters, 790 Tower St. Fergus. Owner Ken Collins. He will ship if you call him. (519) 787-4359 Hope it helps —                         Dept. OB/GYN                         University of Western Ontario                         London, Ontario, CANADA

Response:

there are a total of 3 separate Angling Specialties in the Toronto area, each with slightly different inventories and trun over rates.  In addition to these there is Skinners on king downtown, a toronto institution.  THere stock is on the light side but they are the only Orvis dealer around.  If you are willing to dirve to the KW guelph are there are several excellent shops.  Kingsway in north Guelph has an excellent fly tying section.  Natrual sports in kitchener is pretty good to.  There is the forks fly shop in inglewoood and northeast anglers in grimsby.  Lebaron in toronto (2 locations) is good for terminal tackle Best prices around.  And of course in oshawa there are a couple more shops.  Your best bet is to go to the fly forum the first week end in april. Ian Feir – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Does any one Know of any fly shops in the greater Toronto area?? I’ve been to Fishing Specialties in Concord just north of Toronto. I would like to know if there are any others. Thanx in advance and tight lines, Loris

Response:

Hi all, Does any one Know of any fly shops in the greater Toronto area?? I’ve been to Fishing Specialties in Concord just north of Toronto. I would like to know if there are any others. Thanx in advance and tight lines, Loris

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