Question:

My own opinion is that the future of the sport lies in lotteries or tickets for limited access to the most popular waters, and encouraging fishermen to spread their days over a diversity of waters, and to limit their days fishing if need be. Right now, I don’t think people really fish too often, just that they concentrate those days on the few well-publicized "gold medal" waters…

I whole heartedly support limited access. I don’t know how the change the pattern of high concentration on a few select waters in any other way. Willi

Response:

….what was the guy thinking when he did this? I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking? I did think about this and hesitated about posting. However, the stream has been discussed on ROFF in the past, the RMN has a circulation of over half a million readers who live in proximity to the stream, the stream is not and never will be a destination water, etc. etc.

O.K., so you aren’t worried about ME coming to fish there.  It’s only the residents of Denver and it’s immediate environs that you wish to EXCLUDE in this particular instance; only anyone who is likely to want to go there.  And this comes to us from a man just coming down off a week long rant about the exclusionary atmosphere in ROFF.  The same man, by the way, who thinks it is a good idea to exclude human beings altogether from certain areas.  So, we are all required to be nice to the newbies and tell them everything they need to know about HOW to fish, but not let anyone know about Willi’s favorite spots in Colorado.  And I’ll bet a shiny new nickel that anytime someone tells you about a SECRET stream you make a point of staying away from it in order to keep the pressure down, right?  You sir, are a monumental hypocrite.

Response:

My own opinion is that the future of the sport lies in lotteries or tickets for limited access to the most popular waters, and encouraging fishermen to spread their days over a diversity of waters, and to limit their days fishing if need be. Right now, I don’t think people really fish too often, just that they concentrate those days on the few well-publicized "gold medal" waters… I whole heartedly support limited access. I don’t know how the change the pattern of high concentration on a few select waters in any other way.

Publicize less popular waters?  I think if Colorado were actually worried about it, the first step would be to stop publicizing the "gold-medal" waters.  Since they continue, I have trouble believing that they find the crowding to be as big a problem as those here on ROFF do.      - Ken

Response:

I whole heartedly support limited access.

What about a minimum age requirement, say 50? Give the youngsters something to look forward to. — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….what was the guy thinking when he did this? I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking? I did think about this and hesitated about posting. However, the stream has been discussed on ROFF in the past, the RMN has a circulation of over half a million readers who live in proximity to the stream, the stream is not and never will be a destination water, etc. etc. O.K., so you aren’t worried about ME coming to fish there.  It’s only the residents of Denver and it’s immediate environs that you wish to EXCLUDE in this particular instance; only anyone who is likely to want to go there.  And this comes to us from a man just coming down off a week long rant about the exclusionary atmosphere in ROFF.  The same man, by the way, who thinks it is a good idea to exclude human beings altogether from certain areas.  So, we are all required to be nice to the newbies and tell them everything they need to know about HOW to fish, but not let anyone know about Willi’s favorite spots in Colorado.  And I’ll bet a shiny new nickel that anytime someone tells you about a SECRET stream you make a point of staying away from it in order to keep the pressure down, right?  You sir, are a monumental hypocrite.

Isn’t that the mantra of all the hypocrites here?   "I want less crowds…all the rest of you stop fishing" Hey, I’m as selfish as the next person, but at least I admit it.       – Ken

Response:

I whole heartedly support limited access. What about a minimum age requirement, say 50? Give the youngsters something to look forward to. — Charlie…

Sounds like a good idea Charlie except the minimum age for the prime spots should be 70. Ernie

Response:

Sounds like a good idea Charlie except the minimum age for the prime spots should be 70.

Let’s implement it gradually so that is true in about 18yrs<g. — Charlie…

Response:

I really like that idea a bunch! I whole heartedly support limited access. What about a minimum age requirement, say 50? Give the youngsters something to look forward to.

Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

Response:

Isn’t that the mantra of all the hypocrites here? "I want less crowds…all the rest of you stop fishing" Hey, I’m as selfish as the next person, but at least I admit it.       – Ken

Absolutely.  It’s highly ironic that everyone professes to want to promote the sport while at the same time decrying the numbers of people found on the water.  The jealous secrecy attached to particular hallowed favorite waters is especially telling.  I’m not fond of encountering crowds on the waters I fish either, but it’s easy enough to find something secluded.  As for the health of the waters themselves, individual bodies only remain popular so long as there are sufficient numbers of fish to maintain a high level of interest; not many people are going to stay for long on a stream with no fish in it.  So, a favorite stream gets written up in a magazine.  Everybody goes there and pretty soon all the fish are dead.  Everybody stops going.  A few years later the stream has recovered and in the meantime everybody is busy doing the same thing to another.  Or, thousands of people converge on a stream, the stream maintains high fish populations and life goes merrily on. Anyone TRULY interested in reducing fishing pressure on their favorite streams (or any other for that matter) should immediately do three things:  1.  Stop fishing NOW!  2. Stay OFF this news group.  3. Encourage anyone who plans to stay in ROFF to roast EVERY newbie who comes along.

Response:

<< .. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

I have been dealing with the same thing here in Spokane.  The local outdoor writer, who by the way happens to be an old time fly fisher, has taken to talking non stop about the blue ribbon lakes up in my hometown area.   He is vague when he talks about his own favorite waters but brags up these alpine lakes to no end.  As a result, there were over 200 fly fisherman on my favorite lake this opening weekend when two years ago there were only 40 people. Mike

Response:

Maybe the guy was thinking that responsibility for stream-use management belongs to the DWR.

He could have made this point without naming the stream itself. I also don’t think that was his slant. He is pretty much of the opinion that C&R is THE solution to all of Colorado’s problems. The numerous public meetings he mentioned that are scheduled to discuss upcoming regs for a number of our waters should be well attended, hotly debated affairs. Willi

Response:

but what was the guy thinking when he did this? He was thinking about selling newspapers.

About two years ago, Fly Fisherman magazine did an issue with two articles on small trout streams, located only minutes away from Los Angeles and Phoenix.  I wonder how many fish were left a month or so after they hit the newsstands. If you scan through the back issues of FFM from the early ’80’s onward, you notice that practically every issue mentions the Bighorn River — at first with titles like "America’s Greatest Trout River," but they start turning into "Over-crowding on the Bighorn."  I have yet to see any sort of mea culpa or any other sign of self-consciousness from the editorial staff though. Kevin

Response:

….what was the guy thinking when he did this? I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking?

I did think about this and hesitated about posting. However, the stream has been discussed on ROFF in the past, the RMN has a circulation of over half a million readers who live in proximity to the stream, the stream is not and never will be a destination water, etc. etc. Willi

Response:

he wasn’t thinking, at all.  this brings to the forefront my primary concern regarding the present and future state of this sport.  there are too damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.

The situation here in Colorado is that although there have been fewer licenses sold over the last few years, but there are now many more fly fishermen who fish many more days per year.  The result is historically high pressure on our streams and rivers. anyone who exposes a fragile resource such as the one willi describes should be banned from fishing for a substantial time, after a severe ass whipping.     and yeah, this is the primary reason why i don’t get enthused over making certain that the sensibilities of newbies are massaged.  there’s a gracious plenty of us out there as it is.

Although I definitely DON’T think that’s an excuse for being an asshole toward people, I agree that we don’t need more people fishing the streams and rivers. We are in a unique position, in that with most endeavors, if there is more interest, more facilities can be built to accommodate them. You can’t build a trout stream. Willi

Response:

… I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

Outdoor writers have to walk a fine line between being vague and therefore irrelevant to their readers and "spilling the beans" so to speak and perhaps harming the spots they write about. I basically agree it’s a bad idea to publicize places that are best left well enough alone but I do have some sympathy for the dilemma outdoor writers face too. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

….what was the guy thinking when he did this?

I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking?

Response:

there are too  damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.

Hey speak for yourself Mr. "I live only a few short hours away from heaven on Earth" Harrison. The only fishing I’m doing these days is in my dreams. But in heartfelt agreement on the punishment due that writer. —- Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

He was thinking about selling newspapers. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

   he wasn’t thinking, at all.  this brings to the forefront my primary concern regarding the present and future state of this sport.  there are too damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.  anyone who exposes a fragile resource such as the one willi describes should be banned from fishing for a substantial time, after a severe ass whipping.    and yeah, this is the primary reason why i don’t get enthused over making certain that the sensibilities of newbies are massaged.  there’s a gracious plenty of us out there as it is.

Yeah!!  You tell it.  Anyone who wasn’t fishing pre-1974 (chosen so that I just barely meet the requirement) shouldn’t be allowed on the water at all.  And all you who do meet that requirement can’t take your kids with to even let them see the water.  It’s a special club dontcha know. Hey, here’s a thought, since it’s all you boomers out there that are causing the crowds, why don’t we just regulate you all off the water? It’d get rid of the crowds…      - Ken

Response:

The point is that this is a small stream that can’t sustain a great deal of pressure. It could be easily fished out and even with C&R, crowds are totally inappropriate on such a small stream. Denver has a large population of fishermen. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this? Willi

    he wasn’t thinking, at all.  this brings to the forefront my primary concern regarding the present and future state of this sport.  there are too damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.  anyone who exposes a fragile resource such as the one willi describes should be banned from fishing for a substantial time, after a severe ass whipping.     and yeah, this is the primary reason why i don’t get enthused over making certain that the sensibilities of newbies are massaged.  there’s a gracious plenty of us out there as it is.     wayno

Response:

The point is that this is a small stream that can’t sustain a great deal of pressure. It could be easily fished out and even with C&R, crowds are totally inappropriate on such a small stream. Denver has a large population of fishermen. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

Maybe the guy was thinking that responsibility for stream-use management belongs to the DWR. –Steve

Response:

In the Rocky Mountain News today, there is an article by Ed Dentry discussing fishing on a small stream in the foothills of Denver. The stream actually runs through some of Denver’s suburbs. The article was about how the stream was ignored by fishermen on their way to more distant waters and that some of the landowners in the area were attempted to put C&R regs on the stream. It’s been 15 years since I lived in the Denver area, but when I did, this stream was my local favorite. It was VERY lightly fished and held some nice fish, especially in the urban sections. A guy who has posted trip reports to ROFF about the stream, lives in an apartment right next to it and echoes my memories of it. The point is that this is a small stream that can’t sustain a great deal of pressure. It could be easily fished out and even with C&R, crowds are totally inappropriate on such a small stream. Denver has a large population of fishermen. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this? Willi

Response:

Question:

I was reading about the death of Payne Stewart and came across a list of sports figures who have lost their lives in plane crashes. One was Johnny Dieckman, world fly-casting champion who died in Chicago, March1, 1962. Was he well known among flyfisherman?

Response:

Allen He may have been but he doesn’t show up in the index or the biblio of Schullery’s Amer. Fly Fishing, A History. You might want to check with the museum Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was reading about the death of Payne Stewart and came across a list of sports figures who have lost their lives in plane crashes. One was Johnny Dieckman, world fly-casting champion who died in Chicago, March1, 1962. Was he well known among flyfisherman?

Response:

I was reading about the death of Payne Stewart and came across a list of sports figures who have lost their lives in plane crashes. One was Johnny Dieckman, world fly-casting champion who died in Chicago, March1, 1962. Was he well known among flyfisherman?

Lee Wulff was killed when he pranged his plane a few years back.

Response:

I was reading about the death of Payne Stewart and came across a list of sports figures who have lost their lives in plane crashes. One was Johnny Dieckman, world fly-casting champion who died in Chicago, March1, 1962. Was he well known among flyfisherman?

Hi Allen, I heard his name years ago, maybe from my Cortland Line Company Rep, now retired, Joe Patterson. I would bet that the old timers like Lefty, Kurt Gowdy or Jack Samson would have known him.

Response:

Question:

Attn:  Warren Funk Warren, If you are still interested in finding background for the knot you described I have found a name and diagram in some of my archives. It is called a Pitzen Knot.  I only have a print out of it that I have collected somewhere off a net site quite sometime ago.  The site probably doesn’t exist anymore.  I may have it shown in my "knot bible" but it is in the boat away from here. The tying technique is somewhat different than you described but I have tied the knot using yours and the diagram and I’m quite sure it is the same knot. I was quite intrigued with your description and technique for the knot and have been using it. The illustration I have on hand is not great but I think it would scan adequately.  I would be glad to do so and e-mail it to you or put it in the binary newsgroup if interested.

Response:

No need to do any of the tasks listed.  Just go to Alta Vista and search for "Pitzen Knot".  I got several hits.  One of which: http://nucleus.agron.missouri.edu/flyfishing/pitzen.html  has a good description and rating on the knot.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Attn:  Warren Funk Warren, If you are still interested in finding background for the knot you described I have found a name and diagram in some of my archives. It is called a Pitzen Knot.  I only have a print out of it that I have collected somewhere off a net site quite sometime ago.  The site probably doesn’t exist anymore.  I may have it shown in my "knot bible" but it is in the boat away from here. The tying technique is somewhat different than you described but I have tied the knot using yours and the diagram and I’m quite sure it is the same knot. I was quite intrigued with your description and technique for the knot and have been using it. The illustration I have on hand is not great but I think it would scan adequately.  I would be glad to do so and e-mail it to you or put it in the binary newsgroup if interested.

Response:

Al – thanks for checking on this.  I would have to try both and see what they look like when finished, but I can guarantee that the way I tie it is a whole lot faster and simpler than the way it is shown on the web site you gave.  I also thought that the Hangman’s knot looked very similar, and may be the same knot at the Pitzen knot. Warren Funk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Attn:  Warren Funk Warren, If you are still interested in finding background for the knot you described I have found a name and diagram in some of my archives. It is called a Pitzen Knot.  I only have a print out of it that I have collected somewhere off a net site quite sometime ago.  The site probably doesn’t exist anymore.  I may have it shown in my "knot bible" but it is in the boat away from here. The tying technique is somewhat different than you described but I have tied the knot using yours and the diagram and I’m quite sure it is the same knot. I was quite intrigued with your description and technique for the knot and have been using it. The illustration I have on hand is not great but I think it would scan adequately.  I would be glad to do so and e-mail it to you or put it in the binary newsgroup if interested.

Response:

One of the sites I ran into looking for this showed another method, a variation of slinging the lure around the line.  I had opted for this method when using a heavy stiff 20+ACM- line that gave me trouble slinging it around. I let the lure hang down and wrapped the line around the vertical hanging line while holding on to the line and clinching loop. I use the Hangman’s Knot (Uni Knot) and I’m sure it is not the Pitzen Knot. Another one I use is the Scaffold Knot (Centauri).  I tie it by extending my forefinger beyond the tip of my thumb that is pinching the standing line and wrap the loose end 3 times around my finger tip, slip off the coil and run the loose end through the coils in the direction of the standing line.  It can also be doubled at the eye. Warren Funk …wrote … +AD4- …I would have to try both and see what +AD4- they look like when finished, but I can guarantee that the way I tie it is a +AD4- whole lot faster and simpler than the way it is shown on the web site you +AD4- gave.  I also thought that the Hangman’s knot looked very similar, and may +AD4- be the same knot at the Pitzen knot. +AD4- Al wrote … +AD4- +AD4- If you are still interested in finding background for the knot you +AD4- described +AD4- +AD4- I have found a name and diagram in some of my archives. +AD4- +AD4- It is called a Pitzen Knot…

Response:

Question:

In 2 days, the auction for a Beautiful Hardy Marquis 6 Fly Fishing Reel – No Reserve – will be completed. Please check it out. Thanks!

Response:

Question:

I plan to be in Carlsbad, NM, the first part of October, 1998.  Does anyone know of any fly fishing places in that area? Thanks Al Carlton

Response:

Not for any cold water species !  That IS the desert southwest .

Response:

Question:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

My friend Jim Dionne at Dirigo Flies says he can help you out, and hit your price range Give him a call at (800) 893-2815 tell him you’re the guy from the internet I told him about.                                         jc

Response:

while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

Response:

while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks! Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

I have an on line catalog and have the Clousers in any size and color that you want. You can see my catalog at http://www.surfsouth.com/~jbranham/retailcatalog.html

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Hello- This is probably not what you want to here, but… I would suggest learning to tie them yourself. Clousers are extremely easy to tie and the materials are cheap. I am not a very fast tyer, and I just turned out 10 in the last hour. I tied them on 3/0 for salt water use (Mustad 3407 hooks at about $7/100). That way you can tie them in any size or color combo you want. Even if you don’t tie now with just a few very basic lessons you can tie clousers. Good Luck! Steve Rosenblum

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Try to get a second hand vice and tie your own. They are the most simple saltwater fly to tie and you can make a hundred for what it costs to buy ten at Orvis prices. Get the cheapest vice you can find at first and THEN decide if you want to keep tying. If so, consider the best vice you can afford and prepare yourself for the plethora of tying materials you will want to buy along with the books, videos and CD-ROMs you will get to learn how to tie. Good Luck,         jmc

Response:

Question:

Hi, is anyone here in this group who can give me informations for flyfishing posibilities in Italy south of the alps? Thanks Hans-Peter Weigel D-28213 Bremen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… Hi, is anyone here in this group who can give me informations for flyfishing posibilities in Italy south of the alps? Thanks Hans-Peter Weigel D-28213 Bremen All the Italians come to Slovenia to fish – Italy sucks. Mike

In order to avoid another politicly or culturely motivated bout of mud slinging, I think you should clarify whether you meant that the fishing in Italy sucks  :-(  or whether you meant that Italy as a country sucks. ) Not Italian, but more sensitive to the feelings of nationalism than ever. Mike Uetz

Response:

says… Hi, is anyone here in this group who can give me informations for flyfishing posibilities in Italy south of the alps? Thanks Hans-Peter Weigel D-28213 Bremen

All the Italians come to Slovenia to fish – Italy sucks. Mike

Response:

In order to avoid another politicly or culturely motivated bout of mud slinging, I think you should clarify whether you meant that the fishing in Italy sucks  :-(  or whether you meant that Italy as a country sucks. ) Not Italian, but more sensitive to the feelings of nationalism than ever. Mike Uetz

Of course I’m refering to the fishing – this is rec.outdoors.fishing.fly NOT italy.as.a.country.sucks Mike

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of any fishing news groups?  I am especially interested in Flyfishing. Thanks. Randy

Response:

Does anyone know of any fishing news groups?  I am especially interested in Flyfishing. Thanks. Randy

I don’t but email: for any fishing info you’d like. Leo UCD – Engineering                                   (303) 556-2356 "I’m only responsible for what’s not working right now." DoD# 0874

Response:

Does anyone know of any fishing news groups?  I am especially interested in Flyfishing.

try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Tim —

Response:

Question:

My wife and I are looking for a good lodge to use as a base for weekend of FF. We would like something in Western Pa and are willing to go as far east as Potter County.  Any Ideas would be appreciated. Thanks Marc Bloch

Response:

My wife and I are looking for a good lodge to use as a base for weekend of FF. We would like something in Western Pa and are willing to go as far east as Potter County.  Any Ideas would be appreciated. Thanks Marc Bloch

I don’t know about the availability of lodges but the fishing in Tioga County   is great.  My family has a cabin near Wellsboro.  Fishing the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon  (ie.  Pine Creek ) was some of the better fishing that I’ve done   in a long while.  Best of luck.   Dave

Response:

Try Big Moores Run lodge near Coudersport, PA.  They have several miles of Big Moores Run divided into beats. They also have some lake fishing for 1-3# average size rainbows and browns.  They allow float tubing.  The lodge itself is an Orvis endorsed lodge.

Response: