Question:

A friend is leaving our fishing committee after a number of years. We would like to mark the occasion with a gift. In some ways it is easy you can always find use for a cape, a reel, a fly box, a line, the list is endless… Perhaps a good strong fly box that could take a small inscription would be a permanent reminder, does anyone have any suggestions? — Ellis Morgan

Response:

A friend is leaving our fishing committee after a number of years. We would like to mark the occasion with a gift. In some ways it is easy you can always find use for a cape, a reel, a fly box, a line, the list is endless… Perhaps a good strong fly box that could take a small inscription would be a permanent reminder, does anyone have any suggestions? — Ellis Morgan

I’ve seen Wheatly fly boxes that people have engraved. Paul

Response:

I’ve used a UK company which specialises in fishing gifts: http://www.justfish.co.uk I’ve had resin fish for the wall, cards and fishing related ornaments etc.  The catalogue is pretty good, in fact I think they sent out a Xmas one recently – might be worth requesting one ?

Response:

In reference to my previous post for justfish.co.uk, the resin fish sculptures are quite nice – they are not very big mind.  I ordered one last year for the wall – only 12 x 8 inches – under

Question:

A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

LOL! My wife Googled that link up last week. One of the more glossy guide sites I’ve seen, but the prices are in line with the area from other stuff we’ve read… We’re planning on 10 days down there; I figure I’ll use a guide for a day or two and then see how I do on my own. From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

Response:

Fabulous place Fell and broke my thumb the day before I had 2 days booked with a guide called sawyer ( I Think) – fortunately he had 2 novices waiting to go and who took my cancellation – both had bones 5lb + Enjoy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

– Charles Reaves

Response:

From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable…

They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos…

It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G TC, R

Response:

From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times.

That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool.

Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys! /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!) Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G

end around here. /daytripper (A shrink could buy his next house on my tab…)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out.

Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys!

Fuji makes a disposable UW that actually works pretty good if you just want "quick and easy" – get them in the States.  Also, get a couple of decent but inexpensive masks and snorkels (also in the States) unless you are absolutely a "dry head."  And if you dive, DON’T take anything but Hawaiian slings (with extra tubing) – anything else is a no-no. TC, R

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.  

We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have. I’ve been looking at satellite images of the area to the west of the reef through the island chain over to the big island and then on to the Marls, and it looks like flat water everywhere west of the reef would be the rule unless the weather is coming due north/south. You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner).

Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time… /daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have.

Heck, with that, you don’t need to worry about no steekin’ ferries…plus, that’ll allow quite a variety of fishing – you might wish to take non-FFing tackle, as well. Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time…

You get them at Customs, so you don’t have much of choice, unless you wanna fly over early to get one…<G.  Ask for a "sportfishing permit" – it’s around 20-25USD.  I don’t know the status of the boat you’re renting, and with a guide, or on a Bahamian charter, you don’t need one, but if I were in your shoes, I’d just get the thing and be done with it. Bahamian Customs and other LE bodies can be a weird thing for the first-time tourist, so don’t act amused or surprised at any, er, "simple ways."  Make sure you have a couple of hundred USD in tens and twenties for the various fees, "taxes," etc. (in and out for you both, and I don’t mean bribes – it just speeds things up to have smaller bills at the ready).  Up until recently, "Customs" at the MH airport was a card table with a very friendly guy who always told you that you had nothing to declare, in and out, and to enjoy your stay…<G.  The outers particularly, and the Bahamas in general, are pretty laid back when it comes to sensible tourists who obviously plan on spending money.  My father is there quite often, and the only "trouble" in all the years of our family going was that he was pickpocketed once in Nassau, realized it as it happened, tried to grab the guy, who ran.  He then had to catch up to some folks who also gave chase and caught the guy so they didn’t beat him senseless before the cops came.  They made the guy give back the wallet and apologize in between blows. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

Response:

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.

We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

Response:

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been. We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt.

Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?).

I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

Response:

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season".

…and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

Response:

We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV.

Nope. I’m speaking of the one right down on the water. Did eat at the Bluff House once, but it was their weekly BBQ. Not bad, but still the options are limited on that end of the cay IMO. Maybe we hit them on a bad week. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land.

But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever). Drew

Response:

A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

Response:

I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever).

Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so there’s plenty of water.  But as you point out, (land)basing from one of the cays limits you in other ways, sometimes not well-taken by those who wish varied activity over a 10-day trip.  From MN, you can easily get to just about anywhere in the Abacos via ferry for a, pardon the pun, day trip, and while Dave fishes, his wife can shop, tour, etc.  - IIRC, she isn’t a fisher?  IOW, from MH, you can just go wherever whatever the first ferry that happens to be handy is going and likely find something, but at the cays, you might have to plan, call/radio, and/or wait, and you can just about do/see all there is to do/see in GTC in about a day and a half if you wish to "go and do." Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or even bothering to go for more than a half-day) as, IMO, it’s like a mini-Freeport and likely to eventually screw up the immediate surrounding area of Abacos.  Hopefully, it’ll take it in the shorts again, and this time, they’ll tear the whole flockin’ place down and be done with it. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 (Tylenol 2?) in the States with a prescription.  My father swears by them, but all they do for me is make me sleepy. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Drew

Response:

Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so

To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or

Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3

Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

I’m surrounded by lightweights!  ;-) From the years of suffering with that damaged disc that was cleaned up this spring I squirreled away enough stuff to whack a herd of rhinos for a week with a multi-colored hail of doses. MMMmmm…doses….! And none of it has that godawful liver-killing should-never-have-passed-muster-with-the-FDA Tylenol. /daytripper (Go big or go home: Oxycodone and Oxycontin rule!  ;-)

Response:

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". …and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

Well…um….that would be…er…well….hmmm…. /daytripper ("Quickly! To the laboratory!")

Response:

The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

Response:

Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

Thanks mfitons!

Response:

well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback.

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot)

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". We’re still shopping around the Abacos but I think Herself has seen enough to make her "half" of the decision… /daytripper (that would be the big half, of course

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

"I wouldn’t join a yagt…yauht….BOAT club that would have me as a member!" <attributable_to_someone_noteworthy_I_am_soooo_sure Thanks for the start, Richard. My wife and I enjoyed the heck out of Anegada, population under 100 and which I’d call "severely isolated", compared to Green Turtle Cay – which looks to be fairly teeming with humanity and is a short boat ride to a whole lot of touristy stuff by comparison. But if the fishing is good enough I’ll put up with a lot We had considered the Tiamo resort on south Andros, but someone or something put the wife onto this place, hence the grape vine initiative… I’m not sure that the spousal unit is ready for a week and a half on a boat, though the idea has it’s intrigue. She’s done day sails on schooners and didn’t go green, so there’s a possibility she’ll surprise me. I shall bounce it off Herself and note her first reaction (the only one that counts I plan on at least renting a boat, hopefully a center console in the 20 foot range while we’re wherever we’re going to be. I’ve looked at the rates and they seem more than reasonable ("Wait’ll you see the boat, though!" We had also considered a different place closer to the Marls on the western side of Abaco, but my wife read that the guides that work out of the eastern cays can scoot over to the Marls quickly enough. The scale of these islands escapes me,  seems much smaller than I had imagined. Again, thanks for the feedback, if you have more on the GTC thing I’d appreciate it (as email if you prefer). /daytripper

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Man, that does sound like a fun technique! Here, fishy, fishy… john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My kennel manager is on vacation, so lots of work for me, but I have been getting out for an hour or two after dinner. Fishing has been good and I’ve come across something I find interesting. At sunset, there are large numbers of spinners (I’m guessing they’re spinners but I haven’t been able to catch one) flying just over the surface occasionally skimming it. There are also some large Mayfly duns and a small Mayfly duns on the surface. There are a few splashy rises from fish chasing emergers but by far the majority of the "risers" are fish jumping clear out of the water to snag one of the spinners flying over the surface. I’ve seen this on an occasional basis, but some of the fish are doing this from a set feeding station and are jumping for the flies on a regular basis. This includes some decent fish. They totally ignore any of the duns that drift by. The flies are only about a size 16/18, so this jumping doesn’t seem "energy efficient" but me, but I’m no fish. I’ve been able to catch a few of them swinging soft hackles. I’ve also caught a some on a dry or emerger tied on an upper a bloodknot dropper with a weighted nymph below. The weighted nymph serves as an anchor and by holding the rod high, the fly on the dropper can be made to skim the surface, stay above it or bounce on the surface. It’s the closest I can come to imitating the hovering flies. It’s been moderately effective with lots of missed fish jumping at the fly but it’s a fun technique. Willi

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……The flies are only about a size 16/18, so this jumping doesn’t seem "energy efficient" but me, but I’m no fish……

I suspect the energy expenditure is not as great as you might think. Fish are streamlined.  Putting on a short burst of speed which will carry them out of the water probably doesn’t cost them a great deal of effort.  The fact that they do so frequently for what seems a small reward bears suggests it is energy efficient. Wolfgang

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Willi    Try dapping.  Get some unwaxed dental floss (or silk floss, I prefer sky blue, the fish seem to ignore it) and cut about six 8 foot pieces.  Lay ‘em out side-by-side and knot the ends together.  Put a 3 foot tippet on one end and tie the other end to your fly line.  Get the longest pole you have and wait for a little bit of a wind.  The floss works as sail and you can skitter the fly over the surface of just above the surface like a hovering insect.  I’ve only caught two fish with the fly in the air but its a trip (okay, I snagged a couple more).  You just let the fish set the hook on itself.  Your natural reaction is to pull it away, don’t move.  Bigger the fly, the more lines of floss and vice versa.  You can use this technique while hiding in bushes on the bank. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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Willi   Try dapping.  Get some unwaxed dental floss (or silk floss, I prefer sky blue, the fish seem to ignore it) and cut about six 8 foot pieces.  Lay ‘em out side-by-side and knot the ends together.  Put a 3 foot tippet on one end and tie the other end to your fly line.  Get the longest pole you have and wait for a little bit of a wind.  The floss works as sail and you can skitter the fly over the surface of just above the surface like a hovering insect.  I’ve only caught two fish with the fly in the air but its a trip (okay, I snagged a couple more).  You just let the fish set the hook on itself.  Your natural reaction is to pull it away, don’t move.  Bigger the fly, the more lines of floss and vice versa.  You can use this technique while hiding in bushes on the bank.

        this is the weirdest damn place i have ever been.         yfitons wayno

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My kennel manager is on vacation, so lots of work for me, but I have been getting out for an hour or two after dinner. Fishing has been good and I’ve come across something I find interesting. At sunset, there are large numbers of spinners (I’m guessing they’re spinners but I haven’t been able to catch one) flying just over the surface occasionally skimming it. There are also some large Mayfly duns and a small Mayfly duns on the surface. There are a few splashy rises from fish chasing emergers but by far the majority of the "risers" are fish jumping clear out of the water to snag one of the spinners flying over the surface. I’ve seen this on an occasional basis, but some of the fish are doing this from a set feeding station and are jumping for the flies on a regular basis. This includes some decent fish. They totally ignore any of the duns that drift by. The flies are only about a size 16/18, so this jumping doesn’t seem "energy efficient" but me, but I’m no fish. I’ve been able to catch a few of them swinging soft hackles. I’ve also caught a some on a dry or emerger tied on an upper a bloodknot dropper with a weighted nymph below. The weighted nymph serves as an anchor and by holding the rod high, the fly on the dropper can be made to skim the surface, stay above it or bounce on the surface. It’s the closest I can come to imitating the hovering flies. It’s been moderately effective with lots of missed fish jumping at the fly but it’s a fun technique.   Willi

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Great story snipped. I am not quite sure if he is really serious, but it is a nice story anyway. TL MC

My wife understands that when I say that I’m going down to the pond for an hour of fishing after work, to not expect me till after dark.  Then again, when she is sewing on a quilt and she tells me "just one last thread," then I know not to expect her in bed till dawn. The local pond that I fish is near a church.  The carillon rings on the half hour.  I’ve often wondered while fishing if the thing is broken ’cause that damn thing just rang "five minutes ago."  Especially true when the fish are seriously biting.         Frank

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I’m surprised you didn’t know the scientific fact that all areas around fishing ponds are time warps, the amount of warp in direct proportion to the size, number and hunger factor of the fish. If all the above are negative the time line elongates, if positive it shortens. — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great story snipped. I am not quite sure if he is really serious, but it is a nice story anyway. TL MC My wife understands that when I say that I’m going down to the pond for an hour of fishing after work, to not expect me till after dark.  Then again, when she is sewing on a quilt and she tells me "just one last thread," then I know not to expect her in bed till dawn. The local pond that I fish is near a church.  The carillon rings on the half hour.  I’ve often wondered while fishing if the thing is broken ’cause that damn thing just rang "five minutes ago."  Especially true when the fish are seriously biting.         Frank

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Angelic poetry snipped.    Thank you again Mike, you continue to touch our souls with a common truth.  Where surfers may have the "Endless Summer," fisherman will always have that "one last cast."        Frank

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Angelic poetry snipped.    Thank you again Mike, you continue to touch our souls with a common truth.  Where surfers may have the "Endless Summer," fisherman will always have that "one last cast."        Frank

There are indeed several casts in any anglers armoury, irrespective of his skill, knowledge or experience,  which have a very special magic. One is the first cast, and then there are also the innumerable "last casts" !:) Four years ago, I visited Denmark with my wife, fairly early in the year. We had a small house almost directly on the beach. These are very cheap indeed in the off season, and we have done this a few times. My wife fishes a little, and indeed possesses all the relevant certificates, ( she often explains to people that she only took the exams so she could understand what the hell  I was jabbering on about more than half the time). On this particular occasion, it was bitter cold and snowing rather heavily. Due to heavy cloud cover, the night started to darken early as well, and I hoped this would bring some fish closer in. After a couple of hours of braving the vicious wind, and viewing the unusual spectacle of heavy surf on the Baltic, my wife decided she would rather pack in, go to the house and read for a while instead. Intimating these sentiments to me was rather difficult, as I was standing in the surf almost up to my chest, quite a way away,  fighting to avoid  being bowled over, and having just hooked my first fish of the day. Unusually again, there were a couple of anglers in the immediate vicinity, ( some idiots will go out in even the most disgusting weather), and as our conversation consisted of screaming at each other over the wind and waves, they were perforce party to the exchange, which went like this; "I

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It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…The shop I guide for has a deal with Terry in which we guide anyone who wants to fish there. The fish are too huge to land alone so this is recommended. I have fished there a bunch and can assure you that there is nothing easy about landing a 6 pound Kamloops on a sz. 18 pheasant tail. The fishing is easy- if you use a cork pellet- but if you fish it according to the hatches and the mood of the fish its a damn fun time and a challenge. For a time this year I was nailing them on a sz. 18 sulphur parachute – it’ll make your knees shake watching a 26 inch brown sip down a fly that small. . My personal best was a 15 pound rainbow. I caught her on a sz. 16 beetle, barbless…..My funniest catch was a 20 some odd inch Kamloops that put me into the backing in one long run. It took the fly, turned tail and ran straight at me, jumped chest high into the air, bounced off  a boulder in front of me and kept on hauling. She ran 60 feet in one run. The run was so violent I ended up tangled in the trees 50 feet downstream. I ran after her, pulled my line out of the trees, and tried to reel her in. Another run upstream, and the down…….I landed her after a long fight. Funny thing is, I was just showing my guest how to roll cast and didn’t expect to hook Granted, it may be fake, but it will have you shaking in your boots. By no means is it easy.  Any how, enough rambling, I’ll let you guys know what Terry says tomorrow. I just decided that I’m going to fish there for a while in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

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I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…

That’s right nice of you Matt. I actually knew that you were a guide for that stretch of water from talking to Walt and from reading your emails on the NC list, but since we haven’t met, I didn’t want to be so bold as to ask a favor. However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

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No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

How does IJ do that, anyhow?  I already told Walt I was coming to the spring clave in Carolina.  However, I forgot to mention that my attendance was contingent upon the presence of Indian Joe.  Wouldn’t be a Carolina Clave without THE MAN being there. Mark Faulkner

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However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

        since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual wayno the innocent

Ahhhh, Becky and Jody; I taught them everything they know back in ‘74. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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(snipped extremely large dose of fermented BS) in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

Walt, Matt’s been at the mushrooms again. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk.

That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0) Louie

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Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0)

You forgot to say ‘f*ck profanity’<g. — Charlie…

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it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

As Delbert McClinton says, "it ain’t what you eat but the way how you chew it". — Charlie…

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since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

LOL.   I seem to remember a similar incident involving a certain cactus. Of course you’re the legal expert here, but our president has made abundantly clear the difference between "innocent" and "not convicted". Joe F.

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I sent him an email a couple of weeks ago, detailing the steps.  I think he enjoys the anonymity. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC The older you get, the better you realize you are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out. If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin. I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

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Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.      I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave.   All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

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IJ…might be time to adjust the medication a bit <G. BTW, it’s a different crowd "downstream" in avery/watauga…they’ll have you locked up on charges for environmental pollution within the first day! … of course, you’ll probably be staying over at elk river at tom selleck’s place won’t you? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

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Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? –Steve

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Steve Z: <<Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

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Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements –Steve

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Steve Z: <<Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements I agree with Walt.  I once belonged to a local ffing club.  Three heavily stocked ponds with very big fish.  After fishing there for awhile, I found out where the term "shooting fish in a barrel" came from.  It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

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Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements If they’re Orvis endorsed I’m sure Dave can pull some strings<g. — Charlie…

these waters, in a sense, are orvis endorsed. to fish them, you hafta arrange a guide trip at the orvis shop. I believe it’s $450.00. is it fake. well, in the sense that there ain’t no other stream in the state with fish like this…sure, it’s unreal, afterall, they are fed daily. are they big fish….well, they’re mighty damn big fish! kamloops, browns and rainbows, many well over 30". the biggest brookies i’ve ever seen, some 24"+. california golden trout in the 24" range. 100’s of fish between 12" & 24". it’s a sight to see, but it ain’t "real." does that mean i don’t fish it? hell, are you crazy? i’ll  fish it every time i’m lucky enough to wrangle an invite, which appropriately, is just once this year. there is a thrill involved with a 30"+ fish on a 3wt…even if it is "fake." is it wise to sneak in there….go ahead boys…. make terry’s day, or should i say, make his wolves day! yup…wolves. btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool. walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool.

Do you think there’s a chance that if we told him what we’re planning (I’d be willing to give it a shot) that he might make certain allowances for us (reduced fee, no guide requirement, etc)? I think feeding the fish kinda crosses my own little line of what’s real and what’s fake, but as long as we’re gonna be in the area and all it would be nice to catch a really really big trout. –Steve

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Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.

If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a

call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring

clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.

I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in

Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

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Steve Z: <<or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife) Firt of all, wuss, you announce nothing to the dear lady — you tell or "inform" her that you are going fishing with the guys next May.   Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

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I’ve reformatted your announcement below for the less fortunate. Also, I saw Boone’s Fork listed on your page. Does this mean are you going to talk your friends at Boone’s Fork into letting us fish their "fake fishing" stretch–or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt

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-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.    Indian Joe

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-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.  Indian Joe

sorry ij…i guess the html kilt it. i’ll try again. ***ANNOUNCING*** The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt Hope to see ya there. Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  ’00 R.O.F.F. Spring Fling Hope to see ya there. Walt

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Question:

Anyone using a fly line with sinking tip for nymphs or streamer fishing? If so, do you use weighted nymph? How long for the leader/tippet? In what circumstances should such lines be used? I have tested scientific angler class 3 and class 5 in a park near my home. Class 3 was hard to cast. Class 5 was very hard to cast. Comments and recommendation anyone?

I agree with the gentleman previous toi this thread. When you cast heavy line of any kind (above 7) the idea is to false cast NEVER, well maybe once if you have to. On the Roannoke in NC casting for those monster sex crazed stripers, I cast a seven wt with a fast sinker to get it down in the seams that would whip a weighted fly all over. The technique is to find  a pocket cast to the side, draw the line to the suface with a slow backcast, then just before the fly reaches the suface, load the rod by the surface tension of the water. even with this powerful back cast-not by the speed of it, but by loading the rod, you get the line in the air. Make your foreward cast count-and place your fly. If you back cast here, your line will drop,it s just too heavy. If you muff the cast, Start from the begining or suffer frustration. Good luck and tight lines! Thanks to Lefty for this tip, he deserves the credit. Steve

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Leader length of 3 or 4 feet work well for me. Weight the nymph as you see appropriate. Most cases an unweighted nymph is best. Some flies seem to benefit from weight of some sort. Casting sink tips requires a more carefull, slower stroke, don’t hold too much line in the air and keep false casting to a minimum. Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone using a fly line with sinking tip for nymphs or streamer fishing? If so, do you use weighted nymph? How long for the leader/tippet? In what circumstances should such lines be used? I have tested scientific angler class 3 and class 5 in a park near my home. Class 3 was hard to cast. Class 5 was very hard to cast. Comments and recommendation anyone?

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Jean, Try the AirFlo Fast Sink or Intermediate Sink leaders.  They cast extremely well and the Fast Sink really takes the fly down.  I have been using one this week to cast small Clousers to shad in the Rappahannock and it is working beautifully.  I use a heavier, stiffer (regular monofilament) tippet and keep it to under 3 feet.  The AirFlo leader comes in a 10 foot length for Fast Sink.  If they have the 5 foot model out now it might be a good bet depending on where and what you are fishing.  Another handy thing is they handshake to a line loop and a surgeon’s knot on one end of the tippet. Makes swapping between floating and sinking a matter of seconds and changing tippets the same. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone using a fly line with sinking tip for nymphs or streamer fishing? If so, do you use weighted nymph? How long for the leader/tippet? In what circumstances should such lines be used? I have tested scientific angler class 3 and class 5 in a park near my home. Class 3 was hard to cast. Class 5 was very hard to cast. Comments and recommendation anyone?

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Anyone using a fly line with sinking tip for nymphs or streamer fishing? If so, do you use weighted nymph? How long for the leader/tippet? In what circumstances should such lines be used? I have tested scientific angler class 3 and class 5 in a park near my home. Class 3 was hard to cast. Class 5 was very hard to cast. Comments and recommendation anyone?

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Question:

Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup?  I guess if you count this petty whine. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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Just curious, where are you writing from because your emails were dated 3/12 and the times were 1:17AM and 1:23AM? Shouldn’t that put you about two or three time zones into the Atlantic Ocean?

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Just curious, where are you writing from because your 2 emails were dated 3/12 and the times were 1:17AM and 1:23AM? Shouldn’t that put you about two or three time zones east of the eastern seaboard and into the Atlantic Ocean?

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I agree! I regret that the NG has strayed so far afield. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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W Hart wrote Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup? …

If so, none are memorable. However, we have recently lost Mike Connor, one of the more interesting contributors in the last year, and part of the reason we have lost him is because of the turn the group has taken lately.  Mr. G contributes but he also detracts, kind of a zero-sum contribution if you ask me.  Still, by ignoring any post with ‘bastard’ in the subject, I pretty much get to avoid his spam and just see his positive contributions and occasional political rants … which are laughable and obviously not to be taken seriously. But…I wish we hadn’t lost Mike. —                                                       -dnc-

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W Hart wrote Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup? … If so, none are memorable. However, we have recently lost Mike Connor, one of the more interesting contributors in the last year, and part of the reason we have lost him is because of the turn the group has taken lately.  Mr. G contributes but he also detracts, kind of a zero-sum contribution if you ask me.  Still, by ignoring any post with ‘bastard’ in the subject, I pretty much get to avoid his spam and just see his positive contributions and occasional political rants … which are laughable and obviously not to be taken seriously. But…I wish we hadn’t lost Mike.

  Agreed HM

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Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup?  I guess if you count this petty whine.

Namesake: The fact that Mr. Medina browsed the newsgroup means he contributed something constructive. If this group is like many others, many more folks browse vs post. While I’m sure that some bright techno internet fluent person could tell us that probably  90% of the post come from maybe 25 people. Sometimes the hardest lesson for us to learn to listen first, then post. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further….

Geez.  It’s obvious that Mr. G thrives on all of the attention.   The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. Personally I like the guy, but I understand why he infuriates many.  But Mr. G seems to believe that any publicity is good publicity. Michael

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Is it just me, or is he not taking his own advice?  Hypocracy shining like a lighthouse here. He is leaving the group because he is sick of reading people’s (including mine) PHEWING, YET his advice to people is,  "they should just ignore his posts rather than reading them" Larry, if you don’t want to ignore the PHEWING posts, because they ruin the group for you to the point of leaving, how can you suggest that  we should just ignore SPAMboo posts which are ruining the group for us? Come back soon Larry, become a part of the solution of making this group more flyfishing related. Matt Blickensderfer * A Grouchy German is a Sour Kraut! *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros.

That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

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The best thing that the anti-G[ehrke] forces could do is ignore him. It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s.

By Jove, I think he’s got it!   But more likely than not we’re all getting sucked into this giant G-Hole. (hah! the subject heading made you look, you licentious ne’er do wells) In other minor news, I tied up some saltwater streamers for a buddy in Boston and then wondered how I could send them to him.  Found that one of those floppy disk cases (that holds 4-5 disks) makes a perfect reusable mailing case.  I had a couple of these lying around from back in the days when floppies were more common. Mu Young Lee     Ann Arbor, MI    USA

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The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

Hmmmmm If you algebraically add the positive G and the negative G does that mean that that there’s no G spot? Jheez, this could be serious. — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.             Robert Frost (1874-1963)

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I guess in the greater scheme we can consider each presence adds to us in its existence or diminishes us in its loss.  Certainly lurkers and the most worthwhile sport of lurking has many advantages.  We certainly do not want to discourage lurkers for there-in lies the untapped gold.  However, a whine is a far cry from a lurk.  And, Dear Wayne, there will be no Whine before its time! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Namesake: The fact that Mr. Medina browsed the newsgroup means he contributed something constructive. If this group is like many others, many more folks browse vs post. While I’m sure that some bright techno internet fluent person could tell us that probably  90% of the post come from maybe 25 people. Sometimes the hardest lesson for us to learn to listen first, then post. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. Geez.  It’s obvious that Mr. G thrives on all of the attention.   The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. Personally I like the guy, but I understand why he infuriates many.  But Mr. G seems to believe that any publicity is good publicity. Michael

_______  wrong. Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

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Amazing!  You don’t like it yet you keep reading it over, and over, and over.  If you want just the information you specifically wish to see I suggest you set down, write yourself several hundred extremely boorish e-mails and send them to yourself over a period of several months.  Better yet, go out and buy a Fly Fishing magazine!  Everything you ever wanted to know, and all the knowledge in the world for just a few schekles, or are you too cheap to spring for the ‘zine.  You want information?  Go buy an encyclopedia.  You want knowledge and experience not found in writing anywhere else?  Naw, you don’t want to read anything not specifically tailored to your personal wants and desires.  I sure hope your wife doesn’t bore you one evening! Come again when you can stay longer! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I agree! I regret that the NG has strayed so far afield. Jim Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

______  Brings back memories of my fighter pilot days. very funny Jeff. Neutral G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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Similarly, I came back to see what progress was being made with the ‘Bastards’ and hopefully to find a little more civility. Not to be. What I found is the S.O.S.

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Question:

I am planning a trip to the Dordogne region of southern France in June of this year, and would appreciate any information regarding fly fishing in that area.   post via this news group, or contact me via email (preferable) at Thanks in advance

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craig: Check out the following article by Barry Thornton in the Online Gillie at Flyfishers Online (www.flyfishers.com). Fly Fishing the Famous Doubs River in France! – Oct, 1996 Enjoy, PFY I am planning a trip to the Dordogne region of southern France in June of this year, and would appreciate any information regarding fly fishing in that area. post via this news group, or contact me via email (preferable) at Thanks in advance

– Peter Yoakum eChannel, Inc. 206 727 2702 206 727 2718 (fax)

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Question:

I live in Illinois—not exactly the fly fishing capital of the world—and I’m planning a trip out west  (Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, Black Hills) in August.  I’ve never been fly fishing, but I’m determined to give it a try.   I’m getting a basic Orvis Clearwater rod and reel, but I have no idea how to use it.   Does anyone know if there is a video that teaches basic fly fishing techniques, basic info about the types of flies you should use in what conditions, etc.?  Any information about where I might find such a video would Dan Simeone                   (PHONE) 217-333-0850 Station Manager               (FAX) 217-333-7151 University of Illinois

Response:

Try Orvis’ "Fly Fishing School".  It’s an eighty minute video for about $20.00 and covers just about all you would need to know.

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Question:

| The last couple of years I have become more and more keen on fly | fishing after trout. My experience with fishing wet, dry and streamer | flies is good, but when it comes to using nymph flies I have not been | very successful. | | Several have told me how enjoyable and efficient nymphing can be but | I have yet to experience this. | | I dont think this have anything to do with the patterns I have used | as I have tried out several different ones at several occasions. | I rather suspect my lack of success is due to the fact that my | techniques using nymph flies needs improvements. | | So, anybody out there who are having success with nymphing, please | share your techniques with us who dont. | | Terje |         I have been nymph fishing reasonably successfully for about 10 years , although last year I did not have as much success as previous years, I dont know why. I will share my "rules" for nymphing.                 1) Make sure that your nymph is in a dead drift without                 too much slack in your line. Since you cannot see the nymph,                 the determination of whether you are doing this right is many                 times based on where you cast and the feel of the line when                 you pick it up. This part is the hardest to get right.                 2) I generally cast upstream and do not let it drift too far                 downstream from me. Others may certainly use different                                  techniques here.                 3) Use a visible indicator and SET THE HOOK on anything that                 even slightly resembles a strike. 90% of the time it will                 not be a fish, but you never know.                 4) If you are not occasionally hanging up on the bottom, and                 if you are not catching fish, then put more weight on.                 5) Set the hook everytime you pick up your line for another                 cast. I have caught many fish this way and missed many when                 I haven’t followed this rule.                 6) If all else fails–use smaller nymphs.               Nymphing is hard, and its really not as much fun as dry fly fishing ( in my opinion anyways), but it can be very productive. Good luck, Dan

Response:

The last couple of years I have become more and more keen on fly fishing after trout. My experience with fishing wet, dry and streamer flies is good, but when it comes to using nymph flies I have not been very successful.

In a lake ? fast stream ? or slow deep pools? Several have told me how enjoyable and efficient nymphing can be but I have yet to experience this.

I have read that fully 50% of all takes on a nymph go undetected by the fisherman — probably true. It took several months before I started to consistently catch fish on a nymph (fast streams and deep pools). Some people use a strike indicator- small float or adhesive foam pad. I don’t care for them. Instead I try to keep the line tight and watch for *any* deviation in the line movement (floating line). If the slows, speeds up or changes course in its drift I give a slight tug on the line. Be prepared to set the hook if there is any resistance at this point. Often there will be a good, solid  hit on the nymph at the end of its drift, as it starts to turn out in the current, so let it drift till then. If necessary weight the nymph to get it down to the fish. A split-shot about 8 inches above the nymph should do it. Nymphing in slow water is another deal- requires ’swiming’ the nymph through the pool. I haven’t done this so I can’t offer any advice. I dont think this have anything to do with the patterns I have used as I have tried out several different ones at several occasions.

I like very buggy patterns like the GR Hares Ear. I rather suspect my lack of success is due to the fact that my techniques using nymph flies needs improvements.

or just practice. Try setting the hook on the slightest deviation of the line float. Eventually you start responding preferentially to true takes So, anybody out there who are having success with nymphing, please share your techniques with us who dont. Terje

mike

Response:

The last couple of years I have become more and more keen on fly fishing after trout. My experience with fishing wet, dry and streamer flies is good, but when it comes to using nymph flies I have not been very successful. Several have told me how enjoyable and efficient nymphing can be but I have yet to experience this. I dont think this have anything to do with the patterns I have used as I have tried out several different ones at several occasions. I rather suspect my lack of success is due to the fact that my techniques using nymph flies needs improvements. So, anybody out there who are having success with nymphing, please share your techniques with us who dont. Terje

Response:

| | So, anybody out there who are having success with nymphing, please | share your techniques with us who dont. | | Terje | Step 1) Use a strike indicator until you develop the ability to detect strikes by subtle line motions or flashes. I prefer small flourescent corks that slide up/down the leader. They can be secured to the leader by the end of a toothpick. I usually use a 9 – 12 foot leader. Setp 2) Determine how deep the water is and position the strike indicator 1 1/2 times the water depth above the nymph. Step 3) Nymphing is easier if the water is flowing fast enough for you to approach within 15′ of the fish. FInd a stretch of water with moderate speed, preferably broken up with some boulders or structure. This is not necessary, but I find nymphing to be the easiest on pocket water and in medium speed water with lots of small holding pockets. The easiest depths to nymph are 1-4 feet. Two feet is about perfect. Step 4) Strip about ten feet of flyline off your reel so that you have about twenty feet or less of total line/leader. Setp 5) Flip the line/leader upstream at about a 45 degree angle. Try to have the nymph land downstream of the strike indicator. When the indicator hits the water, raise your rod tip to keep slack line off the water. Have the tip of your rod follow the strike indicator downstream. As the indicator passes you, begin to lower your rod,  feeding line towards the indicator to prolong a drag free drift. When your slack is exhausted, let the indicator sweep across the current until it is directly downstream of you. Start your next cast (or flip) from this position. If at any time during the drift, the indicator pauses, then raise the rod tip slightly, but quickly and feel for a fish. If it’s a fish, it will usually hook itself if you just raise the rod slowly. If upon raising the rod, slightly, you feel nothing, then lower the rod and continue the drift. The pauses of the indicator my be almost imperceptable, so keep your eyes glued to it, and react EVERYTIME it pauses or twitches. Step 5 is the crucial step, and I am not a good enough writer to explain it very well. It is imperative in nymphing that you 1) get as long of a drag free drift as possible.  2) Your nymph must be near the bottom of the stream. I find that I usually have to add a small split shot to get my nymph down quickly. It is better to use too much weight than not enough. Also, since you only need to flip your line, kind of like a roll cast, the split shot do not interfer with casting very much. 3) Be persistent. Fish an area thourghly. Drift the nymph through every pocket of water at least several times. Now, if I have thoroughly confused you, I recommend that you rent a video. There are probably some pretty good nymphing videos and I am sure that you will find them clearer. — The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation – Bellevue, WA (All opinions expressed are my own and not my employers.)

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