Question:

    i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent…

Excuse me, may I help you?  Oh, I see.  Well, you turned left into "Leader Minutia" by mistake.  Go back down the hallway you came up, make a left by the drinking fountain, head for the sign that says "Actually Fishing Outdoors", and then past the restrooms, and right into "Turning A Nice Phrase".  Don’t mention it, have a nice day.

Response:

 Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast.

hmmm….this will be bad news for anyone fishing with me… you boys’ll be doin a whole lot of leader checks… jeff (purely messy)

Response:

…from my experience, cloning ain’t required…damned things are everywhere already…and around water? well, you probably haven’t seen the movie and don’t know the reproductive methods of gremlins, but…let’s just say it doesn’t look good for fisherpeople… jeff (creator of "the gremlin defense" – royalties required, unauthorized use or duplication will be punishable by law, bycracky) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … gremlins…….caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing….. Nasty little buggers from all I’ve heard. Wolfgang and the BAD news is we got the technology to clone!      

Response:

It might be that the back cast is low enough to actually hit the water or the ground, then there’s no need for special talents to break off the fly. Most of the guys that I’ve helped with their casting technique had one common problem, their back cast was way too low. But for this problem to appear again and again, I would also guess that the leader is the problem. /Roger

I agree with both points. I have occasionally broken the hook off the fly by letting it hit the rocks behind me. What really makes that a great trick is to continue fishing with the hookless fly. Makes it a bit more of a sporting challenge! Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas. Thanks again, Nick Wright

Dale gave you an excellent tip re: the FWFF event in September, and what sounded suspiciously like an invite to Backwoods for the Roadkill Roundup.  You could gain quite a bit by attending either, and moreso by attending both.  If you’d like, drop me an email, and I’ll try to provide as much "local" info as I can. TC, R

Response:

Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast. Remove the overhand knots before they tighten.  Don’t delay cutting knots out of the leader and rebuilding it.

Great advice! I saved a lot of time and frustration once I started noticing my messy casts right away and dealing with it before it became an unmanageable mess.  You can untangle things (usually) fairly easily if you stop casting right away. A guide told me the minute rule (ok, maybe 30 seconds)…if you can’t fix it in under (a minute), then cut and redo… you’ll save time, be happier and get your fly on the water… which is the only way you can catch fish. — Rob (of course, fixing messy casting is another problem alltogether…)

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Nick,     Ssounds to me like the whole outfit has been sitting around for a long time…I don’t know why floating line would sink rapidly unless it was old…..Also, there are several sites you can visit to learn to tie different types of knots, buy books, post messages, buy equipment, etc. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/   they have a beginners’ section http://www.thejump.net/fishing/fishing.html  fishin’ knots & other things And here are some links that may be helpful: http://flyfishing.miningco.com/ http://www.njflyfishing.com/ http://www.roundrocks.com/rocks/html/misc.html I’m sure all the others here can also help you a lot…keep at it, ask a lot of questions & PRACTICE!!! Graden

Response:

… gremlins…….caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing…..

Nasty little buggers from all I’ve heard. Wolfgang and the BAD news is we got the technology to clone!      

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob Just what I was thinking.  Put a little mark with a marker on the knot and tippet just above the fly to determine if this is happening if you can’t easily tell.  Does it appear, by looking at the tippet end, if the knot is untying, or is the end, once the fly is gone, a "clean" end? Where in N. Texas are you located?  If you’re near the DFW area, there are a number of instructors (Main Street Outfitters, in FW, for one), and a couple of FFing clubs that might provide some help.  IMO, instruction, particularly professional instruction, will provide dividends beyond the cost incurred (see a recent related thread on this very topic).  If you are comfortable with doing so, reply with a general location – there are several regulars in the general Fort Worth-Dallas <G area. TC, R

Thanks for all the advice. Thinking back on it, this may very well be what I was doing. I had not thought about it before. But that would explain why the leader looked as though it had been cut rather than the knot simply coming undone. I’m going to get all new line for my rod. The "floating fly line" that came with it sinks very rapidly, and it did not come with backing. So I’ll buy some new lines and leaders (hopefully this will help a little) and I’ll continue practicing my casting. Another question semi-related. I’m going to buy the leaders that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet? By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas. Thanks again, Nick Wright

Response:

Another question semi-related. I’m going to buy the leaders that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet?

Knotless tapered leaders are good, but you will definitely need to get some tippet.  Every time you tie on a fly you’re going to lose some material and by tying on some tippet you can delay replacing the leader.  I remember when I was starting out – I ended up changing leaders quite often until I solved my tailing loops (if you see lots of overhand knots all through your leader you are throwing a tailing loop) in which case adding tippet is not as big an issue<g.  Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast. Remove the overhand knots before they tighten.  Don’t delay cutting knots out of the leader and rebuilding it. What length and weight leader/tippet to use is an important question.  For most of the fishing I do (panfish, small bass, small trout) I get by with a 7 foot 4x tapered leader with 4x and/or 5x tippet added on.  I carry spools or 4x through 7x tippet for modifying the end of the leader as needed. –Stan

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As a newbie of one year My most difficult time learning  was trying to forget I didn’t have a spinning rod with weights Easy does it grasshopper. Let the rod and line do the work — Fly Fisherman With a Furless Naked Cat named Dub.

Response:

that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet? By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas.

I live in Plano. You need to buy a spool of tippet material. When fishing for bluegill around here I simply buy a 7.5 foot tapered 3x leader and immediately tie on a couple of feet of 4x tippet material. The waters we fish have so much stuff growing in the water that you gather a bowl of salad on each knott on a regular basis. By the time you leave a couple of flies in trees and snap a couple of flies off on the casts and change flies a couple of times you will need to replace the tippet with another couple of feet of tippet. It is no problem as a roll of tippet material lasts for a couple of years anyway and it is a good idea to replace it every couple of years anyway. BTW the Roadkill Roundtable meets each Saturday morning to tie flies and tell lies at Backwoods in the southeast corner of Campbell and Coit in Richardson. Come join us for a bs session anytime you want.We are a kind of a splinter group of The Dallas Flyfisher Club and the guys that work at the shop are always available to answer any questions. Ron manages the shop and Marshal works there and they are very knowledgable. Big Dale

Response:

nick – you’ve gotten plenty of good opinions, but you’ll soon discover the truth… gremlins.  damn things been plaguing all aspects of my flyfishing.  caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing. they can tie knots in the tippet, snag flies in trees, pull rod tips into closing doors or ceiling fans, push you down into the water in front of your fishing companions just as you’re stepping into a stream…oh the horrors you’re in for now!!  you’ll love every moment – well, most of em. (my opinion… big fly, light or bad tippet, too powerful snapping and too soon on the forward casting stroke.) jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Response:

Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Response:

Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Response:

Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob

Just what I was thinking.  Put a little mark with a marker on the knot and tippet just above the fly to determine if this is happening if you can’t easily tell.  Does it appear, by looking at the tippet end, if the knot is untying, or is the end, once the fly is gone, a "clean" end? Where in N. Texas are you located?  If you’re near the DFW area, there are a number of instructors (Main Street Outfitters, in FW, for one), and a couple of FFing clubs that might provide some help.  IMO, instruction, particularly professional instruction, will provide dividends beyond the cost incurred (see a recent related thread on this very topic).  If you are comfortable with doing so, reply with a general location – there are several regulars in the general Fort Worth-Dallas <G area. TC, R

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Most likely you are snapping them off.  Untutored beginners frequently show a natural tendency to crack a fly line like a whip.  The correction is a matter of timing.  You are probably starting the forward cast too early and overpowering it, causing the fly to accelerate to supersonic speed in a small fraction of a second….more stress than the tippet can handle.  It didn’t happen with the piece of cloth because it’s greater air resistance simply wouldn’t allow that kind of acceleration.  Watch you back cast.  Don’t start the forward motion until the line extends completely to the rear. If possible, get an experienced caster to coach you.  If not, take lessons or rent videos and practice, practice, practice. Wolfgang

Response:

"Wolfgang Siebeneich" Most likely you are snapping them off.  Untutored beginners frequently show a natural tendency to crack a fly line like a whip.  The correction is a matter of timing.  You are probably starting the forward cast too early and overpowering it, causing the fly to accelerate to supersonic speed in a small fraction of a second….more stress than the tippet can handle.  It didn’t happen with the piece of cloth because it’s greater air resistance simply wouldn’t allow that kind of acceleration.  Watch you back cast.  Don’t start the forward motion until the line extends completely to the rear. If possible, get an experienced caster to coach you.  If not, take lessons or rent videos and practice, practice, practice.

I had virtually the same thing written out to send and then thought I’d check and see if it was already in the thread. What he said! Clark

Response:

Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob

Good advice. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice.

The leader could weak. If in doubt, you don’t have to buy a new leader. Buy a spool of 5x tippet and learn to tie about a 18" to 24" piece onto the leader with a double surgeon’s knot. You should be doing that anyway. Cut the leader back to a thicker diameter first. It wouldn’t hurt to replace the whole leader, though. Did you say you paid $20 for this outfit? A decent store-bought leader will cost a quarter of that, but you can tie up your own, after spending more than $20 on materials. Then you can look into buying fly-tying materials, and then you can build your own rods. Eventually, you might build a drift boat and even knit your own waders. The possibilities are endless.

Response:

Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart

    i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

Response:

I’ve seen a lot of people do it Wayne. But I agree, the leader is probably shot which exasperates the problem. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart     i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

Response:

It might be that the back cast is low enough to actually hit the water or the ground, then there’s no need for special talents to break off the fly. Most of the guys that I’ve helped with their casting technique had one common problem, their back cast was way too low. But for this problem to appear again and again, I would also guess that the leader is the problem. /Roger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart     i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

Response:

I don’t know where you live in North Texas, but you might want to check out an event that the Fort Worth FlyFishers Club is involved with that will happen on Sept 21. It is called the Trinity FlyFest and it will include casting lessons. For more information go to WWW. FortWorth FlyFishers.com. The Dallas club does not have an event scheuled in the near future which includes fly casting lessons because our next event is our annual club auction on Sept.21. You might just t ask at the Dallas Orvis Store. There is usualy someone there that will give any customer some casting tips and demonstration  in their parking lot. It is a lot easier to work these kind of problems in person rather than on the net. Contact me if I can be any help. Big Dale  

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Question:

UNC has several campuses, the most well-known of which is in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. The Chapel Hill campus mascot is the Tar Heel, which of course was named after a well-known fly fishing alumnus who wades *really, really slowly* so as not to fall over backwards. –Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – inquiry snipped Terry

Response:

I have just checked out the list and have not seen any postings by uncle george. I thought perhaps he had finally given up on the list and got on with something worthwhile until I checked out his website and found it not to have been updated. Terry

HWMNBN claims to be hanging around the Mayo Clinic…

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I have just checked out the list and have not seen any postings by uncle george. I thought perhaps he had finally given up on the list and got on with something worthwhile until I checked out his website and found it not to have been updated. Terry

Response:

Thanks, I guess years of talking through his arse ‘ole has taken its toll? Joking aside, I hope it is not serious but I know he has some half decent cane. The beveller is not worth a shit though! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just checked out the list and have not seen any postings by uncle george. I thought perhaps he had finally given up on the list and got on with something worthwhile until I checked out his website and found it not to have been updated. Terry HWMNBN claims to be hanging around the Mayo Clinic…

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Question:

Traditional wet flies were fished relatively shallow.  This was because it was difficult to get them to sink very far. This is no longer a problem, and you can fish them at any depth. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: When fishing a traditional wet fly (not a nymph or streamer): are they usually fished deep, or in, or just below, the surface film? thanks, Bob

Response:

Hello: When fishing a traditional wet fly (not a nymph or streamer): are they usually fished deep, or in, or just below, the surface film?

Yes.   They can also be fished bouncing along the surface on a dropper. There is no "wrong" way to fish them. With the exception of a resurgence in the popularity of wet hackles, traditional wet flies are not very popular. Once in a great while I’ll run into an "old timer" fishing a trio of woven "Mite" flies. Willi

Response:

Which can be just the perfect reason to try them. Normally I hardly follow the patterns as described in books, but I make an exception for some traditionals. I just love tying and fishing a Peter Ross or Alexandra, or an Invicta for that matter. For me there’s something special in using these old patterns. Whenever I tie one on, I can’t help but think of some guy a hundred odd years back, pondering over his flywallet and making the same choice as I just did. And you know what? They still work. Peter Ross has helped me out more than once, the only reason I didn’t tie them for the swap is that they take too much time (for me, that is) to make two dozen of them. Herman

<snip With the exception of a resurgence in the popularity of wet hackles, traditional wet flies are not very popular. Once in a great while I’ll run into an "old timer" fishing a trio of woven "Mite" flies. Willi

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

– I just love tying and fishing a Peter Ross or Alexandra, or an Invicta for that matter. For me there’s something special in using these old patterns. Whenever I tie one on, I can’t help but think of some guy a hundred odd years back, pondering over his flywallet and making the same choice as I just did. And you know what? They still work. Peter Ross has helped me out more than once, the only reason I didn’t tie them for the swap is that they take too much time (for me, that is) to make two dozen of them.

I know just what you mean Herman. I remember the first time I was shown a fly box full of traditional wet flies: Alexandras, Peter Rosses, Butchers, Mallards & Claret and Dunkelds, etc. (I had never seen jungle cock before). That was over 35 years ago, but I still love the look of them and give them a wetting once in a while. It’s amazing how often an old traditional will sometimes deliver, when I (and others) am struggling with more modern patterns. I like the Peter Ross, too, but there is a curious thing here: the late, great, Dick Walker claimed he had never (try as he might) caught a fish on one. I’ve had stacks of fish on it! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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I’ve heard this before. Either the Peter Ross works for you, or not at all. There’s also another side to this, of course. Two fishermen, A and B: A: ‘Any luck?’ B: ‘Yes, but they’re selective. Only take small bwo imitions.’ A: ‘What are you using?’ B: ‘Small bwo imitations. Never fish anything else around here..’ In other words, you catch fish with the fly you fish with, not with the flies in the box. If someone tells me some patterns don’t work, I always want to know if he/she ever really tried it. But then again, who am I to doubt Dick Walker.. Herman

<snip I like the Peter Ross, too, but there is a curious thing here: the late, great, Dick Walker claimed he had never (try as he might) caught a fish on one. I’ve had stacks of fish on it! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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Two fishermen, A and B: A: ‘Any luck?’ B: ‘Yes, but they’re selective. Only take small bwo imitions.’ A: ‘What are you using?’ B: ‘Small bwo imitations. Never fish anything else around here..’

LOL Yes, I know what you mean! These things can be self-fulfilling. I was talking to Moc Morgan a few years ago. He was telling me that, at one time, the group of waters he wrote reports on for a fishing magazine had 85% of ALL trout caught on one pattern – the ‘Cat’s Whisker’. Sure, it’s one of the deadliest lures ever invented for rainbow trout, but if everyone is using it -practically to the exclusion of every/any other pattern ….that’s the one that will be catching the fish. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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I’ve heard this before. Either the Peter Ross works for you, or not at all.

I’ve never heard of the Peter Ross being mentioned anywhere in any American fly fishing publication.  In the photos of it it that I have seen in European magazines however, I have seen ones that looked like a slightly bushy wet fly and others that looked almost like a streamer. Post your recipe and a picture.  I’m curious. Mu

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Hi Mu, There is a considerable selection of "Peter Rosses" on my site. The standard classic tie, and several variations. TL MC — "Humour is a great comfort in adversity" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard this before. Either the Peter Ross works for you, or not at all. I’ve never heard of the Peter Ross being mentioned anywhere in any American fly fishing publication.  In the photos of it it that I have seen in European magazines however, I have seen ones that looked like a slightly bushy wet fly and others that looked almost like a streamer. Post your recipe and a picture.  I’m curious. Mu

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Never heard of them? Impossible. I’ll add one in the swap flies mailing, I’ll have to tie some classics for Frank anyway. Herman I’ve heard this before. Either the Peter Ross works for you, or not at all. I’ve never heard of the Peter Ross being mentioned anywhere in any American fly fishing publication.  In the photos of it it that I have seen in European magazines however, I have seen ones that looked like a slightly bushy wet fly and others that looked almost like a streamer. Post your recipe and a picture.  I’m curious. Mu

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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cross posted from ROFF, There is a considerable selection of "Peter Rosses" on my site. The standard classic tie, and several variations.

http://www.mikeconnor.de/Flies/Classic_Flies/classic_flies.html Ahh.  The little hint about moistening the wing in order to produce that appearance clears up some of my confusion.  I had been wondering if there was a special technique in getting tapered wings of teal.   Is there an acceptable substitute for crimson seal fur?  How about Ruby Red Lite Brite? Mu

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In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.10006011058580.8298- acceptable substitute for crimson seal fur?  How about Ruby Red Lite Brite?

I find if I use the fur quickly after I club the seal, it is still a crimson color.  Otherwise it turns kind of rusty brown. If there are no seals near you, try African goat. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Hi Mu, Mohair, wool, and a host of various synthetics may be used.  Antron mixed with wool works very well too. I am not familiar with "Lite Brite", but assume it will work OK as well. TL MC — "Humour is a great comfort in adversity" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cross posted from ROFF, There is a considerable selection of "Peter Rosses" on my site. The standard classic tie, and several variations. http://www.mikeconnor.de/Flies/Classic_Flies/classic_flies.html Ahh.  The little hint about moistening the wing in order to produce that appearance clears up some of my confusion.  I had been wondering if there was a special technique in getting tapered wings of teal. Is there an acceptable substitute for crimson seal fur?  How about Ruby Red Lite Brite? Mu

Response:

Hello: When fishing a traditional wet fly (not a nymph or streamer): are they usually fished deep, or in, or just below, the surface film?

Hello, I’m new to the group, but not the sport.  Thought I might dive in with this.  I love fishing wet flies.  I find them more effective than nymphs in a lot of conditions.  Traditionaly the wet fly is fished in a downstream arc and is one of the few times where drag is an advantage.   I usually start with a partridge and XXX with a brass bead tied on behind the hackle and, depending on the water weight the line with lead.   I cast upstream and fish it like a nymph so it sinks quite a bit, then begin lifting the fly through the water column as it swings through a downstream arc.  This way, you often get a fish when the fly is dropping or bouncing on the bottom or when begining the emerger phase of the run.   This has proven deadly when hatches are just starting or when nothing seems to be happening on the river.  The other advantage is that wet fly fishing is one of the few techniques where you can feel the fish hit the fly, this allows me to look around a bit and watch what develops on the stream while fishing.  Usually I’ll fish a nymph for a while then switch to a wet fly when I see some insect activity on the water.  I’ll fish the wet in the above "emerger" style well after a hatch has started and won’t switch to dries until I can see lots (and I mean lots) of surface activity on the part of the fish.  I think many I fish with switch to dries much too quickly at even the slightest hint of a hatch and end up wasting time as the fish are usually not feeding on the surface until (depending on the bugs) well after the hatch develops.   Switching to wets as a intermediate step allows me plenty of time to watch and learn how the fish are responding to the hatch. I’ve also had great luck taking nymph patterns that are popular on a particular river and tying a partridge hackle on and fishing them in this manner. Russell

Response:

(snip) I’ve also had great luck taking nymph patterns that are popular on a particular river and tying a partridge hackle on and fishing them in this manner. Russell

        as a matter of fact, some of the veteran local smoky mtn tiers tend to tie their "nymphs" in just that fashion.           specific reference is made to bennie joe craig of waynesville, nc., who is probably better known to the denizens of roff as the grandfather of the incomparable laurie, of bryson city fame. wayno

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Hello: When fishing a traditional wet fly (not a nymph or streamer): are they usually fished deep, or in, or just below, the surface film? thanks, Bob

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When fishing a traditional wet fly (not a nymph or streamer): are they usually fished deep, or in, or just below, the surface film? thanks, Bob

Depends on the fly. If it’s tied sparse it will stay just below or in the film.  If it’s tied heavy like a Picket Pin or Hornberg it will sink some. Cast it across and down stream. Allow it to drift straight below you. Swim it back up in 1 or 2 inch strips. Also, cast it across and mend line down stream to allow fly to sink more. Just before it goes straight below you raise rod to imitate emerging insect. Another thing to try is cast down stream and strip it back fast allowing it to bounce in the fast water. Fish have been known to leap out at it. Havr fun. Joel Axelrad

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Question:

Hey Paul.  Finally took your advice and bought a kayak.  I think perhaps they should be outlawed.  You can get too close to tailing reds and it makes them too easy to catch. And, you can onto real muddy flats in seconds.  Before it took me forever in snowshoes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fishing for bass with a small popper I cast to the edge of a stand of cat tails. I got a little too close and thought I had snagged one of the reeds. When everything exploded I thought I had a giant bass. Then I saw the black tubular shape and realized what I had snagged. I was in a kick boat and began kciking toward a shore line (double time) as I stripped out line. In just a few seconds I was to the backing and still stripping. Standing on dry land I began to retrieve line to find that the snake had wrapped around a stump and I was able to break it off. I didn’t care to land it and wasn’t a bit curious about what kind of snake it was.

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….spat on by a squirrel….

Thanks Herman, I just spewed a nice Cabernet all over the keyboard…….hm…….come to think of it, that’s not all that funny after all….been there.

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and carry a small dog for the gator’s. — Charlie…

        what is this?  a very short fill in the blank nature exam?         hehehehehehe…         wayno

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and carry a small dog for the gator’s. — Charlie…    what is this?  a very short fill in the blank nature exam?    hehehehehehe…

Wondered if you’d catch that (but I was betting you would<g). It’s for the gator’s dog to play with while you and the gator discuss dance steps – shufflin’ like a gator as it were. — Charlie…

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and carry a small dog for the gator’s. — Charlie…         what is this?  a very short fill in the blank nature exam?         hehehehehehe…         wayno

speakin’ of gatahs…. go gatahs! (hehehehehhe..) obroff: watermelon pond, located about 20 miles west of g’ville, has it’s name due to the farmland dedicated to growing melons on the rolling hills which surround this placid body of water. the melon crop provides the local farmers with some hard earned money (try pickin and loading watermelons in a hot Florida sun someday) and the fertilizer eventually makes its way to the lake which promotes good aquatic flora, which in turn promotes good aquatic fauna, which in turn attracts the likes of me. as is the case with most lakes located in the karst topographical zone of north central Florida, it is for the most part a hard packed white sand bottom lake which makes it ideal for wading in pursuit of largemouths. as is the case of most Florida lakes, if not all, it has its fair share of reptillean critters, and i ain’t speaking of crackers. amidst the pads and maidencane is where the big bass lay, waiting for the misguided bluegill, shiner, frog, bird, or snake to meander by. one day, while i was retrieving my streamer i snagged some hydrilla. i started stripping it in real fast and this now foot long plus streamer is streaking across the surface. a bass decides it must be a snake and hooks hisself on this mess. as i was in mid-strip, the bass is skimming towards me on the surface. one second i was fishing a streamer, the next i was fishing a big weedy streamer, the following i was fishing an even larger fishy streamer, and the next second i was hooked into about a 5 foot gatah. well, he had my "streamer" in his mouth anyway. cool. way cool. shit. i’m standing in about three feet of water and i’m playing a gator about 30 feet away from me. he does a roll and heads under water. the line is being pulled off my reel so at least he’s heading away, unless of course he’s making a big circle, which by the way he was. he surfaced with much aplomb about 10 feet from me with that big ole silly gatah grin only broken by my dead bass hanging out the side of his mouth like a cherished stogie. with a swish of his tail he’s on me. surreal moments live forever. i still feel like i was a ‘nole stunt man in one of weismuller’s tarzan zanies wrasslin a gator underwater. the fly, a flashy buggah streamer, dubbed a "wallymelon" by my fishing companion, is still in my possession. this is how i earned the moniker…. –wally gatah

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– shufflin’ like a gator as it were. — Charlie…

        oh, you mean that little number waldo does while explaining his late evening whereabouts to the lovely marie?  now i understand. wayno (a beach boogie man)

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…. with a swish of his tail he’s on me. surreal moments live forever. …

Great story. Did you live ? — Ken Fortenberry- right leg’s getting long, pull the left next time

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Great story. Did you live ?

only in spirit(s)….. oh yeah, some, not all mind you, of that tale is fictional wayno, you drsob. you fishin hazel this week? –wally gatah

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…. with a swish of his tail he’s on me. surreal moments live forever. … Great story. Did you live ? —

Who cares – Did it take you into the backing? Peter

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Great story. Did you live ? only in spirit(s)….. oh yeah, some, not all mind you, of that tale is fictional wayno, you drsob. you fishin hazel this week? –wally gatah

        yessiree bob, although the party has been reduced to just me and ol dash riprock.  why don’t you come up and see us sometime.         no shit, we would love to have you.  will be in a posh cabin from tuesday night until saturday morning. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Food for nightmares.. A friend of mine fished the coastal waters around Florida. Pictures of alligators. BIG stingrays all around your ankles.

That’s why you should always shuffle your feet to scare the rays… and carry a small dog for the gator’s. — Charlie…

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Food for nightmares.. A friend of mine fished the coastal waters around Florida. Pictures of alligators. BIG stingrays all around your ankles. Now you’ve done it: tonight I’ll combine the two and dream about bellyboating, hooking a big alligator in the nostrils, paddling back to see a snake dangling from the very tree I’m aiming for. Herman Fishing for bass with a small popper I cast to the edge of a stand of cat tails. I got a little too close and thought I had snagged one of the reeds. When everything exploded I thought I had a giant bass. Then I saw the black tubular shape and realized what I had snagged. I was in a kick boat and began kciking toward a shore line (double time) as I stripped out line. In just a few seconds I was to the backing and still stripping. Standing on dry land I began to retrieve line to find that the snake had wrapped around a stump and I was able to break it off. I didn’t care to land it and wasn’t a bit curious about what kind of snake it was.

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Yeah, right… scare the rays.. I’m Dutch, remember? The worst thing that can happen over here  while fishing, naturewise that is, is being spat on by a squirrel. Being circled by stingrays is already way out of that league. Herman, who wouldn’t put a toe in that water.

Yeah, but a lot of the ex-colonies have some interesting critters in the water<g. I don’t much care for gators, but bonefish flats are covered with rays. — Charlie…

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And that’s why one must always wear leaded wading boots when bonefishin’. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah, right… scare the rays.. I’m Dutch, remember? The worst thing that can happen over here  while fishing, naturewise that is, is being spat on by a squirrel. Being circled by stingrays is already way out of that league. Herman, who wouldn’t put a toe in that water. Yeah, but a lot of the ex-colonies have some interesting critters in the water<g. I don’t much care for gators, but bonefish flats are covered with rays. — Charlie…

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Yeah, right… scare the rays.. I’m Dutch, remember? The worst thing that can happen over here  while fishing, naturewise that is, is being spat on by a squirrel. Being circled by stingrays is already way out of that league. Herman, who wouldn’t put a toe in that water. Food for nightmares.. A friend of mine fished the coastal waters around Florida. Pictures of alligators. BIG stingrays all around your ankles. That’s why you should always shuffle your feet to scare the rays… and carry a small dog for the gator’s. — Charlie…

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Fishing for bass with a small popper I cast to the edge of a stand of cat tails. I got a little too close and thought I had snagged one of the reeds. When everything exploded I thought I had a giant bass. Then I saw the black tubular shape and realized what I had snagged. I was in a kick boat and began kciking toward a shore line (double time) as I stripped out line. In just a few seconds I was to the backing and still stripping. Standing on dry land I began to retrieve line to find that the snake had wrapped around a stump and I was able to break it off. I didn’t care to land it and wasn’t a bit curious about what kind of snake it was.

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Question:

Bill, Make sure your rod and line weight are matched.  Make sure you have enough line pulled off the reel when you cast.  Fly casting is different than bait casting in that the line does not play off the reel, it has to be already off.  There are numerous line dressings available through your local FF shop or via catalog.   I highly recommend this book, Flyfishing; First Cast to First Fish by Joseph F. Petralia.  It is outstanding. Keep at it and keep asking questions, it’s the greatest pastime (obsession) in the world! — Rhio H. Barnhart                                                       Head, Music Department Library Systems Manager for Music University of California, Davis

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I’m glad I’m not the only one who uses their lunch hour to practice casting.  I bet you’ve heard a lot of the same comments I have.  "I think that hole is fished out."  "What cha fishin’ for?"  "Any bites?" My standard reply is "I’m ‘dry’ fly fishing.  Don’t see much point in it so far."  or "I’m trying to catch that little red pickup over there, but it doesn’t like any of my flys." Dave T. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Question:

That sounds like a pretty good deal, however, I would opt for a 9′ fod instead of the 8.5′.  Before you spend any money, you should first have your wife try the sport to see if she will like it, maybe you have already done this.  Do you have any friends that own rods that she could try?  Good luck! Maurice Paquette

Although I do not flyfish, my wife would like to get into the sport. I am looking for a good starter set that she would not grow out of too soon.  I was wondering what folks here think about the Orvis Clearwater beginner combo described below for $165.00: Clearwater 865 8

Question:

Sorry to correct Peter, there are 4 bodies of water, specified on page 9 of the rules and regs that are fly only. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – P.S.  We don’t have fly fishing only water in Ontario and even many of the flyfishermen I know would not agree to such regulation.

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[snipped] remember what’s sauce for the goose… if kayakers are banned from some fishing water it only follows they can plausibly argue to ban fishing from the sections kayakers are restricted too. I don’t understand why anglers and kayakers can’t get along. Ralph H .

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I have to agree Peter.  I know all groups have their assholes but kayakers have the highest percentage I have run across so far.  They feel they have special dominion over any body of water because they are doing something "special".  They also like to paddle around a flyfisherman because they want to "savor" each and every little river experience.  The AK47 comment just gave me an idea.  I wonder if I can get a paintball gun and pellets loaded with waterproof, indelible ink?  Next time some little asshole runs through the hole I’m fishing I’ll let him spend some time in the shower with a wire scrub brush!  Other than that I’ll share the water. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know about their rights but the next one to go through the run I’m fishing is likely to get sink tip wrapped around his neck.  :( The last time it happened (Saturday) the assholes had 100′ wide stretch of river to work with but they wanted my little bit then laughed at me when I bitched.  I don’t know what is worse, those assholes or the ones who smile at me and ask "How’s the fishing?"  as the blow through over my line. I’m wondering if the guy who designed the AK-47 was a flyfisherman and the letters stand for "Anti-Kayak." Peter

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                 (snip) but I’m wondering how long until the lawsuit gets filed.  I’m also wondering what people think in general.  Any comment?         the lawsuit will be filed when some lawyer is paid a retainer which will likely run in the low five figures.  in other words, it will be filed when enough fools with enough money decide to do what fools usually do. wayno

_______  Any fool knows seeing a kayaker on the Yellowstone River would be like seeing a Whale ‘lump’  in a punch bowl.  A ROFF punch bowl at that.  Are you a good attorney for justified homicide? Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

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Hi Jeff, Marc, Fishtales – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of regulars there from your area.  And, many of them flyfish. later, Jeff I’m new at fly fishing and have know idea where to go. if you do please let me know. The Canal is not full of to many fish. — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

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I’m new at fly fishing and have know idea where to go. if you do please let me know. The Canal is not full of to many fish.

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Try the newsgroup can.rec.fishing  if you don’t get answer there or can’t get to the group let me know. You may have to get your internet provider to place that group on their newsgroups listing. — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new at fly fishing and have know idea where to go. if you do please let me know. The Canal is not full of to many fish.

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of regulars there from your area.  And, many of them flyfish.         later,                 Jeff I’m new at fly fishing and have know idea where to go. if you do please let me know. The Canal is not full of to many fish.

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

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Question:

Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

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Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

Leasa:  Look for the Bob Clouser pattern, which works well for me – at least in Pennsylvania waters.  Sorry I don’t have a reference or description, but you could call his shop near Middletown, Pa. (outside of Harrisburg) and I’m sure he would provide a description and materials. Mark Faulkner

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Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

I saw one last night in Kaufman’s "Fly Tyers Nymph Manual".  It’s a pattern by Dave Whitlock. -Burton

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Bob has Clouser Crayfish kits put together that have everything you need to tie them….directions, materials, hooks, and even a sample fly. If you don’t tie he will mail order them. Clouser’s Fly Shop 101 Ulrich St. Middletown, PA 17057 Ph (717)944-6451

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Hi Leasa-    Ya wanna catch fish or fishermen? Lots of realistic crayfish patterns out there, none work better than a wooly bugger; most don’t work as well.    -Ralph

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Path:

news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!news.stea lth. net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!newsfeeds.sol.net!news pump Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

Try a LARGE Wooly Bugger in a bronze/brown with some copper Krystal Flash in the tail and some orange in the wing. Personally, I’ve tied and fished "imitative" Crayfish patterns with good luck in low light on REAL warm days (overcast) but they don’t seem to catch very much better.  Yes, they are tied "reverse" with the tail at the eye, and you weight the "front" of the fly, where the claws are so when you retrieve it, you raise the rod tip, strip line and allow it to fall sort of naturally. Larry #:)#

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"Leasa S. Tucker"  writes: Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns.

Clouser’s crawdad has been my best underwater fly from Mar to Oct for the last 3 yrs.  I get them from Murray’s Fly Shop in Edinburg,VA. Working em close to a stump in fast water will pull out some beautiful fish…good luck-Joe

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The best crayfish patern I have ever seen is the Pheasant Tailed Crayfish. It was modified in 1988 by Bob Morenski and reworked. You can get the pattern from Mark Olinger, of Daktoa Flies or if you dont tie he can crank some. Deadly on Big Browns and Smallmouth Bass. You can find Mark’s address and stuff off the Lake Fly Fishing Pages. htttp://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm. This is one fly pattern that works! — Bob Sheedy Angling Adventures North Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Home of MASTER ANGLER Fishing Software http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm

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Looking for a few good crayfish fly patterns. Try a LARGE Wooly Bugger in a bronze/brown with some copper Krystal Flash in the tail and some orange in the wing.

I’m not sure at what point you start splitting hairs, but crayfish can vary widely in terms of color, and if they are a bright red, or tan, or green, or even have a bluish-black cast to them, a brown crayfish imitation probably wouldn’t have a great result. It’s just like fishing with dries, sometimes they’ll hit an Adams with abandon, other times your gray-olive flies are ignored in favor of the olive-gray numbers…<g Tight lines, TC Tom Chandler   "When in doubt, have two guys come through the door with guns."                                               –Raymond Chandler

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A General Practioner, a common Northwest steelhead fly is a good crayfish immitation, as is the wooly bugger.  The key is getting down on the bottom and giving the appropriate short quick strips and pauses. I think the larger trouts’ interest and line-snapping voraciousness for these things is in relation to their shell hardness.  Biologists please correct me but I have read that crawfish molt and are soft-shelled and delicious during full moons.   Hold onto that rod when you do this. Mark VInsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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Question:

        I live in Ohio and would like to know where would be a good place to go and try a little fly fishing!!  I am new at it so I am not that experienced with figuring the hatches and etc.  I live near columbus.  Bass and trout are what I would mainly like to fish for! Eric

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       I live in Ohio and would like to know where would be a good place to go and try a little fly fishing!!  I am new at it so I am not that experienced with figuring the hatches and etc.  I live near columbus.  Bass and trout are what I would mainly like to fish for! Eric

agaga

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Try the Grand River by Painesville, OH there is a park called Helen Wyzman park where there is good Smallmouth fishing.  There is also steelhead on the river in the fall.  Also, Conneaut River by Conneaut, OH is very good for steelhead.  There are quite a few other places try contacting the Valley Angler in Chagrin Falls they can give you more info

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:        I live in Ohio and would like to know where would be a good place to : go and try a little fly fishing!!  I am new at it so I am not that : experienced with figuring the hatches and etc.  I live near columbus.  Bass : and trout are what I would mainly like to fish for! You may want to try out the Scioto river and the Olentangy north of Columbus. They are excellent smallmouth waters. If you feel like going for trout, try the Mad River between Urbanna and Zanesfield. Anywhere that the road crosses over is an access point on the Mad. Also, check out the Department of Natural Resources and the Department of Wildlife. They both have loads of info on whats available in the state. DNR also has a publications division with lots of free maps and info on the outdoors in this state. They are located on Belcher Drive in Columbus. Check the phone book for numbers on where to call. Jon Porter

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        I live in Ohio and would like to know where would be a good place to go and try a little fly fishing!!  I am new at it so I am not that experienced with figuring the hatches and etc.  I live near columbus.  Bass and trout are what I would mainly like to fish for! Eric

Some years ago I read an article about the Mad River, which I believe is down your ways.  My memory of the piece is sketchy, but I still remember being astounded when I read that this stream (or parts of it) is a cold water fishery with holdovers and even some wild trout. Can anyone verify or correct this? Also, since moving to Cleveland I’ve been avoiding lake fishing, simply because I don’t have a boat and shore access can be frustrating.  Well last week, I bit the bullet and went over to Findley Lake, south of Oberlin.  The day was overcast and gloomy, there was a strong breeze, but a number of fishermen dotted the shore and lake.  I think they were surprised/curious to see a fly-guy on the lake, as more than a few of them walked my way to check me out.  I got there around 10 A.M. and in the 2 hours before the park filled up with picnicers, I caught 4 heavy bluegills and a smallish largemouth, all on a #14 black streamer.  It was great fun, made even better by the look of disgust of a nearby fisherman when he saw that I was putting all the fish back in the lake. Andy

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: Some years ago I read an article about the Mad River, which I believe is : down your ways.  My memory of the piece is sketchy, but I still remember : being astounded when I read that this stream (or parts of it) is a cold : water fishery with holdovers and even some wild trout. : Can anyone verify or correct this? Yeppers.  This is all true. Since you live in Ohio, check your fishing regs. There is Info there on the Mad. Also, check with your local District office of the DNR (listed in the regs) For information on the Clear Fork of the Mohican River. The state started stocking that with trout also. And it is much closer to you in Cleveland. Jon Porter

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