Question:

 ___  Snipped notice: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also of major importance is the petroleum industry price increases which will be impacting fly fishing more than everyone realizes in the immediate future.  That will include increases in plastic parts found in the trade, to waders, shoes, fly boxes, you name it.  There is also a stunning increase in the price of cork.  This will increase the price of all fishing poles of any kind that has cork handles in them later this year.  Cork trees cannot keep up with the demand in Portugal.  I think there may now be a move to find a substitute material such as balsa wood, or even a synthetic that is acceptable by the public.  I only wonder what the fly fishing industry would accept without arguing or screaming about weight?  On one hand, we don’t like artificial materials on Bamboo Fly Rods and on the other, my choice would be prone to try Balsa wood because of its nice color and lighter weight.  THIS, I would like others to put their minds too and help us come up with some answers or possible solutions. As it stands right now, it looks like a $10 increase per cork fishing rod handle!  This is outrageous. This is a public service announcement which other manufacturers are not giving the public a chance to respond or help out with. Any ideas out there? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

– Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____ Price increases will go into effect next week.  Bamboo items included.  We will honor all previous orders at the introductory prices we started off with in ROFF.  This notice in ROFF is in all fairness not a spam because the company was born in ROFF from challenges and dares initiated here. That aside, the venture is a success and this is the end of our efforts to maintain the barest of profit margins which will continue for only this week. Monday will be a new day and our Bamboo Fly Rod Prices will reflect a more realistic Ayn Rand perspective. Also of major importance is the petroleum industry price increases which will be impacting fly fishing more than everyone realizes in the immediate future.  That will include increases in plastic parts found in the trade, to waders, shoes, fly boxes, you name it.  There is also a stunning increase in the price of cork.  This will increase the price of all fishing poles of any kind that has cork handles in them later this year.  Cork trees cannot keep up with the demand in Portugal.  I think there may now be a move to find a substitute material such as balsa wood, or even a synthetic that is acceptable by the public.  I only wonder what the fly fishing industry would accept without arguing or screaming about weight?  On one hand, we don’t like artificial materials on Bamboo Fly Rods and on the other, my choice would be prone to try Balsa wood because of its nice color and lighter weight.  THIS, I would like others to put their minds too and help us come up with some answers or possible solutions. As it stands right now, it looks like a $10 increase per cork fishing rod handle!  This is outrageous. This is a public service announcement which other manufacturers are not giving the public a chance to respond or help out with. Any ideas out there? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

– Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

_____ Price increases will go into effect next week.  Bamboo items included.  We will honor all previous orders at the introductory prices we started off with in ROFF.  This notice in ROFF is in all fairness not a spam because the company was born in ROFF from challenges and dares initiated here. That aside, the venture is a success and this is the end of our efforts to maintain the barest of profit margins which will continue for only this week.   Monday will be a new day and our Bamboo Fly Rod Prices will reflect a more realistic Ayn Rand perspective. Also of major importance is the petroleum industry price increases which will be impacting fly fishing more than everyone realizes in the immediate future.  That will include increases in plastic parts found in the trade, to waders, shoes, fly boxes, you name it.  There is also a stunning increase in the price of cork.  This will increase the price of all fishing poles of any kind that has cork handles in them later this year.  Cork trees cannot keep up with the demand in Portugal.  I think there may now be a move to find a substitute material such as balsa wood, or even a synthetic that is acceptable by the public.  I only wonder what the fly fishing industry would accept without arguing or screaming about weight?  On one hand, we don’t like artificial materials on Bamboo Fly Rods and on the other, my choice would be prone to try Balsa wood because of its nice color and lighter weight.  THIS, I would like others to put their minds too and help us come up with some answers or possible solutions.   As it stands right now, it looks like a $10 increase per cork fishing rod handle!  This is outrageous. This is a public service announcement which no other manufacturers are not giving the public a chance to respond or help out with. Any ideas out there? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

Question:

This seems a particularly inauspicious time to post a report about George’s handiwork, but then again when the hell isn’t it.  He will piss off most of ROFF every other post.  Nevertheless, I promised this report and ROFF will get it. The brown truck arrived this afternoon as promised.  This evening, I departed for Spring Creek with  a 4 and 5 wt line as well as a comparison rod.  I am not an expert on cane rods, although I have two which I fish regularly.  One is a 1950’s vintage Orvis with the letter line rating that translates to a 6 wt.  That rod was not unsheathed this evening.  The other is -at least until now – my favorite.  I purchased it at Farlow’s, Pall Mall, London and it is a 7 ft. 4-5 wt. Tony and Mike, among others,  will know of the store.  When I was there (1989) the cane rods were all stowed across the rafters in the ceiling, while the carbon rods were on display along the walls.  I climbed a ladder and picked out several rods, eventually purchasing one without the benefit of casting -which was not possible under the circumstances.  That rod, however, is a magnificent fishing tool. I took the Bastard to Spring Creek fitted out with a four weight line and fished it.  The rod was a superb fishing tool.  At normal fishing distances – for me 30-40 feet – it performed as well as any rod I have fished.  Then, I went up on the bank along the stream for some pure casting comparisons and put the 4 wt. line on the Farlow’s rod. After that, back to the Bastard for more casting.  At normal fishing distances, the Bastard was better.   With a modest double haul I could put out about 50 ft., but that was the absolute limit at my abilities. The Farlow’s rod can get better  distance than that – I punched out 60 ft. this evening.  But to George’s credit the Bastard is lighter and at normal fishing ranges it peforms better than the Farlow’s rod.  Of course, I  understand that Wayne Cattanech (sp?)did not make the comparison rod and I am hardly the equivilent of Steve Rajeff. Nevertheless, the Bastard is a fine product that by my standards is all that I could ask for in a bamboo rod.  The only thing I would change is to use a cigar rather than full wells grip. Thanks George, and the check is in the mail. Mark Faulkner

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This seems a particularly inauspicious time to post a report about George’s handiwork, but then again when the hell isn’t it.  He will piss off most of ROFF every other post.  Nevertheless, I promised this report and ROFF will get it. The brown truck arrived this afternoon as promised.  This evening, I departed for Spring Creek with  a 4 and 5 wt line as well as a comparison rod.  I am not an expert on cane rods, although I have two which I fish regularly.  One is a 1950’s vintage Orvis with the letter line rating that translates to a 6 wt.  That rod was not unsheathed this evening.  The other is -at least until now – my favorite.  I purchased it at Farlow’s, Pall Mall, London and it is a 7 ft. 4-5 wt. Tony and Mike, among others,  will know of the store.  When I was there (1989) the cane rods were all stowed across the rafters in the ceiling, while the carbon rods were on display along the walls.  I climbed a ladder and picked out several rods, eventually purchasing one without the benefit of casting -which was not possible under the circumstances.  That rod, however, is a magnificent fishing tool. I took the Bastard to Spring Creek fitted out with a four weight line and fished it.  The rod was a superb fishing tool.  At normal fishing distances – for me 30-40 feet – it performed as well as any rod I have fished.  Then, I went up on the bank along the stream for some pure casting comparisons and put the 4 wt. line on the Farlow’s rod. After that, back to the Bastard for more casting.  At normal fishing distances, the Bastard was better.   With a modest double haul I could put out about 50 ft., but that was the absolute limit at my abilities. The Farlow’s rod can get better  distance than that – I punched out 60 ft. this evening.  But to George’s credit the Bastard is lighter and at normal fishing ranges it peforms better than the Farlow’s rod.  Of course, I  understand that Wayne Cattanech (sp?)did not make the comparison rod and I am hardly the equivilent of Steve Rajeff. Nevertheless, the Bastard is a fine product that by my standards is all that I could ask for in a bamboo rod.  The only thing I would change is to use a cigar rather than full wells grip. Thanks George, and the check is in the mail. Mark Faulkner

Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked? walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Hi Walt,  My brother is looking for a Cortland Fairplay line in WF4F, I didn’t see one listed on your site…do they even make a WF4F?  Come to think of it, all I’ve ever seen in WallyWorld is 5 & 6 wt.  Just curious… Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET.

| | This seems a particularly inauspicious time to post a report about | George’s handiwork, but then again when the hell isn’t it.  He will piss | off most of ROFF every other post.  Nevertheless, I promised this report | and ROFF will get it. | | The brown truck arrived this afternoon as promised.  This evening, I | departed for Spring Creek with  a 4 and 5 wt line as well as a | comparison rod.  I am not an expert on cane rods, although I have two | which I fish regularly.  One is a 1950’s vintage Orvis with the letter | line rating that translates to a 6 wt.  That rod was not unsheathed this | evening.  The other is -at least until now – my favorite.  I purchased | it at Farlow’s, Pall Mall, London and it is a 7 ft. 4-5 wt. Tony and | Mike, among others,  will know of the store.  When I was there (1989) | the cane rods were all stowed across the rafters in the ceiling, while | the carbon rods were on display along the walls.  I climbed a ladder and | picked out several rods, eventually purchasing one without the benefit | of casting -which was not possible under the circumstances.  That rod, | however, is a magnificent fishing tool. | | I took the Bastard to Spring Creek fitted out with a four weight line | and fished it.  The rod was a superb fishing tool.  At normal fishing | distances – for me 30-40 feet – it performed as well as any rod I have | fished.  Then, I went up on the bank along the stream for some pure | casting comparisons and put the 4 wt. line on the Farlow’s rod. After | that, back to the Bastard for more casting.  At normal fishing | distances, the Bastard was better.   With a modest double haul I could | put out about 50 ft., but that was the absolute limit at my abilities. | The Farlow’s rod can get better  distance than that – I punched out 60 | ft. this evening.  But to George’s credit the Bastard is lighter and at | normal fishing ranges it peforms better than the Farlow’s rod.  Of | course, I  understand that Wayne Cattanech (sp?)did not make the | comparison rod and I am hardly the equivilent of Steve Rajeff. | Nevertheless, the Bastard is a fine product that by my standards is all | that I could ask for in a bamboo rod.  The only thing I would change is | to use a cigar rather than full wells grip. | | Thanks George, and the check is in the mail. | | Mark Faulkner | |Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked? | |walt | |– |Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com |BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS |P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001 | |

Response:

Same old story as many others really….

(another tale of woe snipped) Joe –  Several years ago I finished fishing Spring Creek at dark, just below Bellefonte, and put my cane rod on the roof of my car while I got out of my waders, had a beer, etc.  As you would suspect, it wasn’t until I heard the rod roll off the roof of the car onto the asphalt that I realized the magnitude of my stupidity. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked? Yes. MF

Mark is too much the gentleman to say this, but I understand that conditions are abysmal in PA.  Spring Creek has been reduced to a trickle, Penns is a puddle, and Fishing hardly flows.  Under such conditions not even the vaunted George could tease up a fish. Peter P.S.  We’ll have to have ourselves a little cane shootout once life gets breathed back into that little creek.

Response:

Joe –  Several years ago I finished fishing

Spring Creek at dark, just below Bellefonte, and put my cane rod on the roof of

my car while I got out of my waders, had a beer, etc.  As you would suspect,

it wasn’t until I heard the rod roll off the roof of the car onto the asphalt

that I realized the magnitude of my stupidity. Mark Faulkner

Mark; The three basic rules of fishing cane rods are: when you are thru fishing, 1-take care of the rod! 2-take care of the rod! 3-take care of the rod! follow all three steps BEFORE moving on to removing waders, drinking beer,etc. and your rods will last much longer John Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Joe and Jon – Bellefonte is still a nice little town, that has the additional advantage of a first class trout stream running right through it.  The story of the six weight deserves to be told. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark: I’ve got an uncle in Bellfonte (sp?), and family (with land and creeks) in Brookville. I grew up catching brookies there. Nice area, Ditto that.   I used to go there on business and knock off early to fish Spring Creek.   Bellefonte is a pretty little town (I thought).   Despite driving my car over my 6 wt. there, I’ve always wanted to come back. Joe F.

Response:

Joe and Jon – Bellefonte is still a nice little town, that has the additional advantage of a first class trout stream running right through it.  The story of the six weight deserves to be told.

Same old story as many others really.   I was downstream from Bellefonte toward Fisherman’s Paradise trying to squeeze in just a few more casts before having to be somewhere else.   I came out of the stream and began packing up in a hurry.   Waders off, shoes on, vest off, etc.   For some reason I was distracted enough to leave my rod leaning against the passenger side of the car when I backed up to leave.   I heard the rod scrape against the side as it fell and realized what I’d done, but too late.   From the position of the rod, I certainly had run over the tip. Surprisingly, it looked undamaged except for a slightly bent guide, so I put it back in the sock and tube and went on my way.   It wasn’t until weeks later getting ready to fish the Tulpehocken that I thought to check it out before I hiked down to the stream in my waders.   I tried a quick cast on the parking area and; well, lets just say the rod was a bit less stiff than I liked. Joe F.

Response:

Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked?

Yes. MF

Response:

Mark: I’ve got an uncle in Bellfonte (sp?), and family (with land and creeks) in Brookville. I grew up catching brookies there. Nice area,

Ditto that.   I used to go there on business and knock off early to fish Spring Creek.   Bellefonte is a pretty little town (I thought).   Despite driving my car over my 6 wt. there, I’ve always wanted to come back. Joe F.

Response:

Hi Frank, The Fairplay line isn’t manufactured in a 4wt., 5wt being the smallest. It is a good line for the money….I have one loaded on a Danica Large Arbor reel and it performs quite nicely. There is a 4wt 333HT but it costs more. However, all the 333 lines are on sale everyday at ez…. –Walt, puttin the lid back on the can. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Walt,  My brother is looking for a Cortland Fairplay line in WF4F, I didn’t see one listed on your site…do they even make a WF4F?  Come to think of it, all I’ve ever seen in WallyWorld is 5 & 6 wt.  Just curious… Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET. | | This seems a particularly inauspicious time to post a report about | George’s handiwork, but then again when the hell isn’t it.  He will piss | off most of ROFF every other post.  Nevertheless, I promised this report | and ROFF will get it. | | The brown truck arrived this afternoon as promised.  This evening, I | departed for Spring Creek with  a 4 and 5 wt line as well as a | comparison rod.  I am not an expert on cane rods, although I have two | which I fish regularly.  One is a 1950’s vintage Orvis with the letter | line rating that translates to a 6 wt.  That rod was not unsheathed this | evening.  The other is -at least until now – my favorite.  I purchased | it at Farlow’s, Pall Mall, London and it is a 7 ft. 4-5 wt. Tony and | Mike, among others,  will know of the store.  When I was there (1989) | the cane rods were all stowed across the rafters in the ceiling, while | the carbon rods were on display along the walls.  I climbed a ladder and | picked out several rods, eventually purchasing one without the benefit | of casting -which was not possible under the circumstances.  That rod, | however, is a magnificent fishing tool. | | I took the Bastard to Spring Creek fitted out with a four weight line | and fished it.  The rod was a superb fishing tool.  At normal fishing | distances – for me 30-40 feet – it performed as well as any rod I have | fished.  Then, I went up on the bank along the stream for some pure | casting comparisons and put the 4 wt. line on the Farlow’s rod. After | that, back to the Bastard for more casting.  At normal fishing | distances, the Bastard was better.   With a modest double haul I could | put out about 50 ft., but that was the absolute limit at my abilities. | The Farlow’s rod can get better  distance than that – I punched out 60 | ft. this evening.  But to George’s credit the Bastard is lighter and at | normal fishing ranges it peforms better than the Farlow’s rod.  Of | course, I  understand that Wayne Cattanech (sp?)did not make the | comparison rod and I am hardly the equivilent of Steve Rajeff. | Nevertheless, the Bastard is a fine product that by my standards is all | that I could ask for in a bamboo rod.  The only thing I would change is | to use a cigar rather than full wells grip. | | Thanks George, and the check is in the mail. | | Mark Faulkner | |Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked? | |walt | |– |Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com |BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS |P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001 | |

– Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

steve, by far the best post yet on the whole issue of  bastard rods thanks for your time and effort chris smith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

Steve….     As someone who has lurked more than participated in the Bastard Bamboo Rod fiasco, I was more than a little uncomfortable that such extreme positions were taken on one side or the other.  Your report, coupled with photos, is, in my opinion, the best post on the subject to date.  It was a fair and accurate report and you did a good job of articulating your opinions and backing them up with photos.  Thank you.  I think that anyone thinking about purchasing a Bastard Rod will be in a much better position to make a purchase decision thanks to you..     As to those who took "extreme positions" in their posts, I’m not throwing rocks at any of you.  If you were not happy with the quality of the rod you received, then all of the feelings attached to such a transaction are going to find their way into your post.  Similarly, when George felt that he was being "attacked", his defensive posture also came through in his posts.  All of this is understandable.     It was nice, however, to see a post like Steve’s Barry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

Steve, I got to tell you, that was a beautiful well done work. Although I haven’t been around in a while ( I relocated and been busy with the new home), I found a little time to read some post. I must say that the post concerning the Bastard production line held my interest. Although George has his foes, he has a respectable amount of heart. If his rods are lacking (judging by the previous posts), I am sure that they will improve with experience. Chris Fleitman Fisherman by nature-goofball by society.

Response:

Steve, Nice pictures. I had wanted to see the tipping wraps. I had a dicussion with George on his chat room one night about and he had told me that they were four threads wide. But on your pictures some of the guide wraps are tipped and some are not. sf

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

will, i got involved with george origionally on VFS. i pointed out an inconsistancy in a statement he made about pricing  which included a general insult to a large group of people. i was polite. he replied with venom and vitriol. i contacted him privately. we communicated calmly and civily. he offered to send me a rod to see for myself how well made it was. not to buy, just to try. i said if he’s willing to go that far the least i can do is buy it – if it’s as good a rod as he claimes. sadly the rod he sent was pretty miserable. not suprising since it was one of the rods he’d sent to daytripper. which was returned  -which george said was so bad he destroyed it -which he now claims is perfectly fine. i told him i would give him a chance to talk about it privately before i posted my thoughts publicly, which was something i stated i planned on doing right up front. i sent him my review and had no responce. i sent him another request to respond and a time when i would post  publicly.from the time i posted to him to the time i posted publicly( 2 days) george was on line responding to and attacking others. my post was polite and truthful with a couple suggestions and best wishes for future success. his responce was typical george-i was made out to be a liar and ignorant. my next reply was georgian. if he can’t take it he shouldn’t dish it. i’m glad codemarine recieved a rod he’s happy with. it’s alot nicer looking than mine. BUT if you look at the cane work you can see there is room for improvement. the flats irregularities show up even in online photos. georges claimes of being better than Granger, Heddon et al are bad for this reason; it blinds george to realization that there is room for improvement in the bastards. if he keeps this attitude about his work and continues to trash anyone who dares disagree with him or finds fault with one of his rods, he’s hurting himself and his business. i for one tried to give the guy a chance AFTER he had ripped into me and look where it got me. on george gehrkes’ ENEMIES LIST. i wish him luck because with him instabilities he’s gonna need it.  bob smith                  .  I do believe George    is honestly   doing his best to satisfy all his customer< —–he has a funny way of going about it—

Response:

 Steve;  A wonderful report on the Bastard Bamboo Flyrod. It’s been extremely interesting reading these posts on ROFF about these rods. I’m a graphite man myself–although I do, on occasion bring out my Orvis Battenkill 8′ 6 wt. circa 1965.   I have no intention of ordering a Bastard–and if I did–I’d have to consider that decision quite carefully after reading some of these exchanges. Well done, Thanks!   Dave M

Response:

Bill: Thanks for a thoughful and conciliatory post.  I wish you would post more often. I myself enjoy quite a reputation for my rod building talent (glass & graphite), but hesitate at the challenge of building a bamboo from scratch.

I apologize ahead of time if I should recognize your name/business in a commercial flyrod context, but I don’t.  Do you build rods commercially, or just as a hobby? The reason I ask is that I honestly wonder how other people who post here, *and* make a living somehow from flyfishing, feel about George’s commercial use of this group.  It has always been shrugged off in the past as the acceptable (to some) price that was paid for all the "contributions" he made to roff.  Personally, I’m having a hard time seeing the contributions of late, but maybe that’s just me. Bob Before you buy.

Response:

Bob, You really shouldn’t recognize my name/business.  I’m just a "have fun" flyfisher who enjoys the sport immensely.  I’ve been involved with many Fly Fishing clubs at one time or another and have taught several rod building classes in my time.  Lost count of the number of rods I’ve built at around 300 or so and that was quite a few years ago.  I just enjoy getting the best performance I can out of a blank. Most of my rods have been donated to good causes or traded for flies.  I definitely have a reputation for having built more rods than flies.  I did meet George at a show a few years back and I believe him to be sincere although a little sensitive concerning his products.  In my opinion, he tries too hard to make everyone satisfied (which is impossible) and then is hurt when someone isn’t satisfied.  His commercial posting on ROFF would seem out of place to me if it wasn’t for the fact he seems to be a part of the group.  Each group needs a diverse set of personalities.  George contributes to the group on a regular basis, providing information, insight, and definitely excitement. You haven’t seen me post very often, because I’m too busy.  Life has caught up to me and I had to get an education to change careers.  I just graduated with a BS degree in information systems while working 65 hours per week. Lurking on ROFF has helped me keep some sanity in my life during this time that I’ve been locked into my studies.  Hopefully not too long now until I can get employed at a real job and will be able to enjoy my weekends fishing again. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill: Thanks for a thoughful and conciliatory post.  I wish you would post more often. I myself enjoy quite a reputation for my rod building talent (glass & graphite), but hesitate at the challenge of building a bamboo from scratch. I apologize ahead of time if I should recognize your name/business in a commercial flyrod context, but I don’t.  Do you build rods commercially, or just as a hobby? The reason I ask is that I honestly wonder how other people who post here, *and* make a living somehow from flyfishing, feel about George’s commercial use of this group.  It has always been shrugged off in the past as the acceptable (to some) price that was paid for all the "contributions" he made to roff.  Personally, I’m having a hard time seeing the contributions of late, but maybe that’s just me. Bob Before you buy.

Response:

Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Steve, All I can say is OUT-FREAKING-STANDING!!! Well done!  A truely fair report and analysis.  I especially liked the pictures to back up the claims made and to actually receive my first glimpse of a bastard! A++ Warren Riding a horse through a stream and chopping down a tree near you!

Response:

Just when we thought it was safe to go in the water

Response:

This, I think, says it all. A masterful production, codemarine. My hat’s off to you. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

A breath of fresh air, a Bastard related post without name calling, well done and informative. Thanks, Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

Steve, you are to be congratulated on an excellent report on the B*stard rod, one I consider fair, well done and containing excellent advice for all concerned. I have stayed out of the fray, primarily because I am not in the running for a rod named B*stard, say what you will, but that is an offensive term to me. (maybe someday I’ll get over it) But I digress…I hope George takes to heart your advice, because, notwithstanding his reputation in ROFF, I wish him well.  Yours is not the first post stating that you found him to be a personable, decent fellow when not trading insults, etc. on ROFF. Let me say right up front that I believe these were honorable, trustworthy people who sent rods back to George, it is just incomprehensible to me that they would even consider dealing with George in any other way. It is my hope, yes even my plan to someday fish with Dave L., Daytripper, Mudfish and all the ROFFIANS that I can fit in to my fishing life, and yes, even George. Life is too short to spend it in any other way than to enjoy in person those people who I’ve come to know and respect on ROFF. It grieves me to see what has been going on these past weeks, for I’ve been a member of ROFF for over 5 yrs now and although I’m not a frequent poster, this group has jump-started my day (with a cup of coffee) for the past 5 years (when I’m not on the road)  It has become a part of my life, instead of having coffee and a donut, I have coffee and ROFF. And, a last special request to George…..read and reread CodeMarine’s advice, step back and give it some thought. As stated before, I wish you well in your rod venture, but you must change your public persona, and stop believing that people are out to "get you" with sabotage or other devious means to hurt your business venture.  Until you go nationwide with your rods, these folks on ROFF are all you’ve got to ’spread the word’ about B*stard rods. In other words, be cool George! In my opinion, _you_ are your own worst enemy, and only you can change that. Good luck and remember, regardless of what’s happened in the recent past, I’ll bet 99.9% of ROFFIANS want to see you succeed. I’m on the road this morning to Denver for 4 days, I want to see some positive feedback from you when I return George…..now, get your ass on over to http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ and read and heed! Respectfully, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

A really nice, balanced report — thanks!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

<<Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. Great post Steve.  Thank god for gentlemen.

Response:

<SNIP Excellent.  Thank you very much for the effort. I am also glad that you enjoy the rod and am pleased for George. Hope he takes your suggestions to heart. TL MC

Response:

Steve, A hearty THANKS from all of us.  A positive and informative post is as refreshing as one can get and with pictures to back it up. Kind of verifies what I have thought all along.  I don’t believe any "Lies" have really been said on this news group.  I do believe George is honestly doing his best to satisfy all his customers.  The fact that he sent those rods to Dave and Dave at the last minute is proof of this.  However, that was a definite business error on Georges part.  He himself admits rods #11 and #12 were sent out in a rush, I think perhaps with a cut back in Quality Analysis to make the deadline. An effort to satisfy a customer at the cost of the perfection George is striving for. Dave and Dave on the other hand having received these rods, noticed some imperfections and felt a need to correct George on these points.  An appropriate action to take.  An action I believe I would have taken under the circumstances. The blow up seems to have stemmed from this action. I believe George is a man of honor who honestly wants to help people enjoy the sport. And has accomplished that many many times over.  However George tends to take on challenges of large magnitude.  None of us would take on the challenge of producing a quality production bamboo flyrod.  In fact it’s quite difficult to produce a single quality bamboo fly rod. I myself enjoy quite a reputation for my rod building talent (glass & graphite), but hesitate at the challenge of building a bamboo from scratch. I believe George takes great pride in the work he does and as well he should.  He has accomplished the close to impossible in the challenges he has taken on. Several posts from satisfied customers verify this.  However I’m afraid he strives to perfection to a fault.  He wants every product he makes to satisfy everyone perfectly and he won’t stop till he gets there. Unfortunately, no one is capable of perfection,  so when a criticism is made it is perceived as an attack. Thus a defensive stance which provokes another defensive stance which then provokes another defensive stance and so on it goes. It is time each forgive one another.  Motives were correct from both sides of the camp.  Perceptions, however tend to have a life of their own. I’ve heard comments about complaining to ISP’s and such.  Come on, bury the hatchet.  Let’s enjoy one another as the Roffians that we are. I neither defend George nor Dave and Dave.  I simply believe that the majority of all this uproar is due to misperceptions on the part of all. George misperceived Dave & Dave’s comments as an attack and the correction George made to those comments were perceived as an attack.  It’s just time to forgive. Bill (the Lurker)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

(snippage has occurred) Steve Zimmerman

Well thought through and well designed post Steve.  However, considering the touchiness of the situation, I will have to see the longer term results to say it was effective in all the areas you intended.  I do think your post serves well as a model for resolving intense, sometimes emotional, conflicts on ROFF. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Egads.  A brown truck just pulled into the driveway…… Shit…… just some Orvis bedroom slippers and pjs I ordered……. Louie

it. Still interested? — Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion. TL MC

Response:

I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion.

And you know that no matter how carefully one was to couch any assistance to avoid it being taken as criticism, the risk is still high that someone’s feelings are going to be injured. I just don’t see the high-percentage up-side to offering unsolicited casting assistance. And frankly, I’m on the water to enjoy myself, not to risk the ire of a flogger… /daytripper

Response:

I only help when asked (fly choices, where, ect).  I have never given casting lessons while I am trying to fish nor do I plan to start that practice. I can understand wanting to be helpful and all, but let a beginner plot their own course. Some of the best lessons I have learned on my own.  If it is someone you know (like I just taught my brother), then don’t plan on fishing much and sure as hell don’t show off your expertise and catch a lot of fish using the same fly, in the same place.  That will just them turn them off thinking they are a failure. Warren

Response:

I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow. W.E.S. Harman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

Response:

I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow.

I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple — "Bamboo is Better"

Response:

Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away?

Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

Whassis, Matt?  Smoking that stuff again?  And, Im NOT cross eyed! Myoptic, yes, but strabismus, not!  And HEY, I tyed my own shoes!  A *real* guide would show a little humility.  The lessons are worth the Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

I went out to my home river last night at about 7:30 to fish the evening hatch. I was fishing a run that usually holds some good fish when there’s a hatch on. They come out of a deep pool down below to feed in the shallower, swifter water. I’ve been fishing this stretch of the river for about fifteen years and feel I know it very well. A young, blonde woman in hippers was fishing upstream and saw me catch a couple of little ones. She came down to ask me what I was using.  I gave her a couple of flies, showed her one of the mayflies the trout were feeding on and wished her luck.  She then told me that the fish were rising "like crazy" in the pool down below but she couldn’t wade out far enough because she was too short. I explained to her that there was a school of very small Browns that surface feed in the pool every evening but that the better fish move up into the head of the pool and into the run I was fishing. Fishing was fairly slow where I was and there was only about fifteen minutes left before I couldn’t see my fly any more. So I thought I’d go down stream and catch a few of those "little browns" that were rising "like crazy."  When I got there, they WERE rising like crazy and were feeding on the same small dun mayfly that was hatching in the run above. On the second or third cast, I had a solid take. Expecting a little Brown, I wasn’t ready for the strong down stream run and I broke off the fish. A few minutes later I got another hook up, I was a little better prepared and after a nice battle landed a Rainbow of about 16". It was then pretty dark, but the fish were still rising. Although I couldn’t see my fly, I could make out the rise forms, so I took a few more casts and hooked and landed a Rainbow that was pushing 20".   Nice way to end the evening but I had another little treat in store. Wading back to shore I tripped on a boulder and took a dunking. While I was swearing at myself for being so stupid, I thought about my conversation with the young woman. She gave me a nice evening of fishing and I felt like an ass for being such a know it all. Willi

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

Response:

What ? a beginner trashing water in frustration ? Most of the people I see on streams fish like this: ^^^^^ back-cast … splash … forward cast … splash (repeat about 10 times to get 40 yards out) drag drag drag. Ok, just kidding. I sometimes offer flies when asked what I am using.  Sometimes I relinquish my spot if I sense that the other angler feels that I have the best spot and he is fishing dead water. A slightly different problem is the lack of stream etiquette that beginners seem to have. I rarely had a problem sharing streams with old timers, however, new fishermen are often a pain in the butt.  Aside for people moving close to me and cast at the same trout I am working on, I had people crossing streams just where I was, or, in some cases, going near the place I was casting to, to see if there was a trout there …. What do you do in those cases ?  I usually move to the next pool: the few times I made a comment about the behaviour, I received blank stares in return. Now, as FF has become increasingly popular with wealthier people in the recent years, who often buy Orvis stuff, I wonder if the dislike that this group has shown towards Orvis is really due to the dislike of new fishermen lacking stream etiquette and dressed in rather expensive outfits ….. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

Response:

ah, mike…that must be the germanic influence engorging your brit nature…soon you’ll be postin about teen-y flies… jeff (worshiping at the mons venus) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

Response:

you mean all that stuff walt taught me was wrong?  he said it was in the orvis book… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

Billy If efficiency is your god, then stay with graphite.  If you’re a romantic . . .  I don’t have to finish the sentence. I have a Diawa 4/5 fly rod that is 5 1/2 times cheaper than my bamboo 4/5 and will out cast it.   Yet that has nothing to do why I like it or love the bamboo.  Others have said it better; you have to fish a good one to know. In a world that worships efficiency,  maybe it’s just our reaction against it.  Whatever it is, we aren’t about to question it.  We just fish. Peter

Response:

 there’s certainly more to fly fishing than casting a whole line with a graphite rod… Regards Jeff

        the only way i and 90% of the rest of us will be able to cast an entire line is to buy one, and then throw it as far as we can, while it’s still in the cradle.  i say fish what makes you smile. wayno

Response:

Harrison) writes: i say fish what makes you smile.

Cripes, you’re getting mellow, what happened? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Harrison) writes: i say fish what makes you smile. Cripes, you’re getting mellow, what happened? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

    advancing age and the discovery of balvenie. wayno, chilling – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Wayno: <<(Wayne Harrison) writes: i say fish what makes you smile. Cripes, you’re getting mellow, what happened? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

    advancing age and the discovery of balvenie. wayno, chilling Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L.

You are absolutely correct, Dave.  Sadly, my Sleeman’s is long, long gone, and my tomatoes are shriveling in the drought. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L.

dave, you are a cruel, cruel bastard. –waldo — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Until you add some dilled Walla Walla sweets and cucumber slices to the sandwich. Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0) Dave L.

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

advancing age and the discovery of balvenie.

wait till I get some really good scotch in your blood stream vs just a good scotch, you’ll even start telling lawyer jokes. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Mike: <<Until you add some dilled Walla Walla sweets and cucumber slices to the sandwich. Speaking of chilling……. last night I found two bottles of Sleeman’s in the cooler.  Totally forgotten.  Serendipitous!  I picked my first two tomatoes and had a couple of tom and lettuce sandwiches for lunch, washed down with TWO Sleeman’s.  It ain’t gonna get any better than this……d;0)

Well, ya might have somethin there.  But I’ll take the pickles on the side and instead of cukes, and how about a thick slice of a hairy-assed Vidalia Onion.  Maybe a slice of *good* cheese? Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

is this a troll? — Nicholas J. Slodki http://trampled.net/Nikolai0/

:I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person :want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? :Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. : :– :Sharp Hooks, at :Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. :http://www.holdzit.com : : :Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Pat- You’d probably ask the same question about fiberglass. Obviously, you’ve never cast one! There’s nothing like the FEEL of casting a bamboo rod…it’s sort of a magical thing, actually allowing you to feel the "tug" of a line straightening out behind you and urging you to begin your forward cast. When nymphing with a bamboo rod, I’ve never had the urge to even consider using a strike indicator (read= bobber) as you can actually feel the nymph being picked up on a tight line while high-sticking a nymph through a riffle. There are some of us who began on bamboo, then out of need, migrated to fiberglass (lack of suppliers of decent bamboo rods at prices the "common man" could afford) and never even bothered with graphite, especially after trying the original graphite rods to hit the market….true buggy whips or telephone poles, nothing in between… along with the horror stories of graphite rods exploding when they got too cold and were tapped against the side of a boat or other hard object. I do own a couple of graphite rods now, but don’t consider them the primary pieces in my arsenal…my primaries are an old Granger bamboo and my Fenwick glass rods, but I do use the graphites also. You’d need to handle one streamside to undrstand is all I can say….maybe someday you’ll find an obliging fly fisherman on the water that’ll let you cast his bamboo or glass rod and then when you take your graphite back and make afew casts you’ll understand better. Larry #:)#

Response:

I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense.

If you are a slam bam thank you ma’m fisherman, tossing and in love with the latest greatest high modulus plastic rod, you’re right cane is not for you. I love cane rods because, and imo only, 1. A good cane rod is a result of someones labor of love as a craftsman not the result of some plastic rolling off of a sheet. 2. A good cane rod forces you to slow down and enjoy the experience. 3. A good cane rod is much more forgiving than a graphite rod to casting mistakes. 4. I believe they fish better, protect tippets better, lay down flies more delicately, 5. There’s a bit of nostalgia involved which for an aging baby boomer is kind of neat. 6.They’re made with mother natures own resources, so they’re probably more eco-friendly tho I have no scientific proof, but these are opinions . 7. The weight crap is overrated. They aren’t that heavy and it is great to feel the line lay out, they almost tell you when to begin the next stroke. Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left. I own more than my share of graphite rods, I use them, like them.but would not be devastated if I lost them. Take my cane tho, and I’ll have to kill you. My opinion only, but you asked. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

It does when you have an old reel and silk line to go with it.  It is a real trip down memory lane. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Bamboo just dose’nt make sense.

Sure it dose. Bamboo, fiberglas & graphite all have plusses & minuses. It comes down to casting style and personal preference. I happen to think that bamboo is more forgiving of my lousy casting stroke. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Wayne Knight wrote … Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left.

Gee thanks.  Now I’ll feel cheap and tawdry next time I go fishing. Keith Brewster

Response:

Tradition, old timey feel. nose thumbing at technology, beauty, yankee pride. Dave

Response:

I do not have much cane experience.  I have an old Montague rod.  Maybe more espensive ones may end up with my mind changed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. If you are a slam bam thank you ma’m fisherman, tossing and in love with the latest greatest high modulus plastic rod, you’re right cane is not for you. I love cane rods because, and imo only, 1. A good cane rod is a result of someones labor of love as a craftsman not the result of some plastic rolling off of a sheet.

I don’t care about this.  How good is the tool? 2. A good cane rod forces you to slow down and enjoy the experience.

Given the kind of fishing I do, I need a fast rod. 3. A good cane rod is much more forgiving than a graphite rod to casting mistakes.

See 2 above. 4. I believe they fish better, protect tippets better, lay down flies more delicately,

Possibly. 5. There’s a bit of nostalgia involved which for an aging baby boomer is kind of neat. 6.They’re made with mother natures own resources, so they’re probably more eco-friendly tho I have no scientific proof, but these are opinions . 7. The weight crap is overrated. They aren’t that heavy and it is great to feel the line lay out, they almost tell you when to begin the next stroke.

I find the weight a serious problem.  After about half an hour of fishing, my arm is worn out.  It is not the weight of the rod, per se.  It is the moment of inertia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left. I own more than my share of graphite rods, I use them, like them.but would not be devastated if I lost them. Take my cane tho, and I’ll have to kill you.

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(BillyFish) writes: I do not have much cane experience.  I have an old Montague rod.  Maybe more espensive ones may end up with my mind changed.

It does not have to be a more expensive one, there are lots of old cheap Heddons, South Bends, Wright & McGills, Union Hardware, etc which were good rods and don’t command premium prices. I have a project rod which used pieces of Leonard rods for a 5 wt which for a cane is a cannon. I paid $300 for the rod. It may not say Leonard, but it is a Leonard. Montagues, in most cases, are best used for tomato stakes or toothpicks Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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wayne and others. SNIP SNIP Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left.

eww… i’m starting to feel a little yucky… have cast a cane rod a few times.. felt like they could cast a line around a 90 degree corner.. just wonderful. edwin

Response:

I am a poor deprived person who has , I confess,  never even handled a cane rod much less fish with one.  To rectify this, in the light of all this debate, I  have been trying to cast with one of the wife’s bean sticks to see what the fuss was all about.  I got blank looks at the hardware store when I asked for a 4 wt – apparently they categorise them as tomato or bean and not by weight! so I came home and nicked one of hers.  Well, I have to say it did nothing for my style, such as it is, and the neighbours, already used to the sight of me flinging fly lines deep under the trees in the garden and trying to curve cast around the posts on the kids climbing frame, just took it all in their stride. George, you must wave a magic wand over a piece of bamboo to turn it into a rod, that’s all I can say. Yes I’ve read the G site (or should that be "spot"? )on how technological this bamboo thing is  - and now you guys have got me going.  I have got to see a real cane rod and have a cast with it just to compare it to my graphite and boron rods and see what all the fuss is about! Bendy bamboo to you all DBJ I don’t practice what I preach as I am not the sort of person I preach to! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. Sure it dose. Bamboo, fiberglas & graphite all have plusses & minuses. It comes down to casting style and personal preference. I happen to think that bamboo is more forgiving of my lousy casting stroke. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Gee thanks.  Now I’ll feel cheap and tawdry next time I go fishing.

But will you respect it in the morning? Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne Knight wrote … Let’s see if I can put another way, using a cane rod to me is akin to sex, a cane rod is like having a loving romantic relationship over time which is much more fulfilling, a graphite rod is like having a one night stand, yea it feels good for a short time but once you shoot your load, there’s nothing left. Gee thanks.  Now I’ll feel cheap and tawdry next time I go fishing. Keith Brewster

Mark Faulkner, recalling those years gone by

Response:

Bamboo may not make sense, and I guess classic Jaguars, MG’s, and Porsches don’t either. But that doesn’t keep them from putting more grins on my face. There’s more to driving enjoyment than airconditioned, fuel-injected cars from the Pacific Rim, and there’s certainly more to fly fishing than casting a whole line with a graphite rod… Regards Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reading all the posts about bamboo fly rods.   Why would a person want a fly rod made from bamboo, when you can have a grafite rod? Bamboo just dose’nt make sense. — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

i saw a show on the knowledge network on Wednesday july 22 7pm.  the guy was fishing on a lake in the merrit Plateau.  Looking for the name of the lake.

Response:

i saw a show on the knowledge network on Wednesday july 22 7pm.  the guy was fishing on a lake in the merrit Plateau.  Looking for the name of the lake.

if it was the show where the guest was Brian Chan  the lake is Minnie Lake on the Douglas Lake Ranch – costs you $75 to $125 a day to fish. BTW I just came back from 4 days on Salmon Lake on the ranch and had a good time with rainbows to about 3lbs – most around 1.5 to 2 lbs on yellow Cary’s. Salmon is a good base camp to fish the other lakes on the ranch. you can camp or rent a cabin there and the fishing on Salmon is open to the public excepting a small boat launch fee. Ralph H

Response:

The Lake was Lumbaum Lake just a bit northeast (mostly east) of Merrit.  We held our regional Scout camp there last May (just after the turnover).  It’s a great spot but can be a real party lake with several forestry camp sites located all around the lake. The show wasn’t kidding about the large trout and how hard it was to get them.  When we were there a couple of days before the camp, the largest we saw (and the largest caught, by a first time fisherman no less <G) was about 14". Kent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not sure of the lake probably Minnie but it was on the Douglas Lake Ranch: http://douglaslake.com/ Tell Carlos & Spencer we said Hi!! — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/ i saw a show on the knowledge network on Wednesday july 22 7pm.  the guy was fishing on a lake in the merrit Plateau.  Looking for the name of the lake.

Signature!?! Damn it Jim, I’m a lurker not a liternary agent!!

Response:

The Lake was Lumbaum Lake just a bit northeast (mostly east) of Merrit.  

I believe the spelling is Lundbom pronounced Lund-bum. The show wasn’t kidding about the large trout and how hard it was to get them.

I’ve never fished Lundbom and decided not too after a few people said it was like steelheading –  if you hook a fish feel good about it. BTW Lundbom has a rich history – see Steve Raymond’s original edition of "Kamloops". The lake had excellent fishing for trout to 8lbs or so plus an excellent sedge hatch. However it was discovered and fishing quality declined rapidly. A proposal to make it an Artificial Fly Only lake was opposed by local gear fishermen. Instead the lake was managed as a quality fishery. Stocking has been greatly reduced and the lake is now known for holding small numbers of large trout where once it held good numbers of cooperative trout with plenty of fish in the 2 to 4 pound range and a few bigger ones, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kent Not sure of the lake probably Minnie but it was on the Douglas Lake Ranch: http://douglaslake.com/ Tell Carlos & Spencer we said Hi!! — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/ i saw a show on the knowledge network on Wednesday july 22 7pm.  the guy was fishing on a lake in the merrit Plateau.  Looking for the name of the lake. Signature!?! Damn it Jim, I’m a lurker not a liternary agent!!

Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Question:

INDICATORS IN FLY FISHING IS BOBBER FISHING

<whole bunch deleted Why is fishing with a bobber with a bait imitation worse than fishing on the bottom with a bait imitation? Doesn’t seem as bad as using artificial stuff to float or sink a fly. Charlie…

Response:

George:  After reading your post I can only say, Thank God we don’t fish together.  I have always believed that tolerance is the hallmark of an educated man.  Hopefully, as we get older and wiser, we learn to "never say never" and to refrain from declaring that the "one way is the only way".  If we decide that indicators violate the spirit of fly-fishing then we must insist that all fly lines be a neutral color that exactly matches the water color.  Otherwise, those who watch the tips of their fly lines to detect strikes are taking an unfair advantage.  Then there are those of us who, due to advancing age, couldn’t see a leader or tippet at ten feet on our best day.  Time to hang up the rod?  Or, maybe, use an idicator.        By the way…love your floatant…too bad I can’t find it in Ontario.  Tight lines.   JIM WARD

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Over the years, as one generation fades into the sunset, it leaves behind certain rules and manners their fore-fathers abided with . . . but if left unsaid, undisciplined, untaught to the new . . . who are left to fend for themselves,  youth resorts to invention; the father of necessity. <<a bunch of oversimplistic blather about the "tradition" of "true Fly Fishing" snipped

(random snips from Joe’s post because it was more fun than the usual wholesale snippage, don’t take it personally) OK, George…Don’t bother…getting your…shorts..you’ll only embarrass

yourself. The fact is, George,…EVERYTHING we do…was…damned…effective… after a couple hundred years. As long as you…carry the ‘lure’, you’re fly fishing. Even…the pure ‘traditionalist’…claim…to…use the tools, materials, hooks, and lines of the ancient Egyptians… Do you nymph with… the beadhead…Isaac Walton the WORM…or… that "upstart" Lee Wulff! Surely you…claim that HIS flies are…silk…braided-core PVC coated…horsehair..ones? Have you got…steel…in the closet? Do you use…automatic…aircraft…? Does your rod have a…floating agent…??? If you use ANY of these things, then you are not the lily-pure ‘traditionalist’ you set yourself up to be. …     …unless, of course, you can show us where Isaac Walton and Dame Julianna promoted silicone…

(All this brought to you from the state where the line-item veto is used to delete single words, letters and even punctuation to achieve greater meaning in the annual budgetary laws.) Ah, there is something comforting about the posting of a truly good troll (it doesn’t matter if it was totally serious or just a stirring the pot). The laying down of the gauntlet, the surety of the combustive responses, the playing out of the thread into ever widening circles encompassing more and more tangential issues. I think Muskie should takes some notes from George’s post. It was written in civil, admirably constructed prose (minus a grammatical, syntactical or typographical error here or there), brought up an issue that will boil the brains of many a lurker, and was laid in like casting a fly on a 1 wt. line to a boiling pool of starving hatchery fish. With such a post you can be assured the world is as it should be and everything in its place, like the coming of Autumn or the first snow frosting the surface of the Earth. It is clear that to George (if we step one step away from the strike indicator controversy), flyfishing (to a greater or lesser degree) lies in the simplicity inherent in the limitations of the mechanics of the fly fishing rig as a predatory weapon to catch trout, all other things falling within the comforting framework these limitations define. He limits his rig to maintain this simplicity (as he views and purportedly enjoys it). There is some merit to this as an aesthetic pursuit. After all, art is what you make of it. To some, certain pieces of artwork are garbage and to others are beauty embodied. (George, I am interpreting your post and am not putting words in your computer, feel free to slam me if this offends you.;-) This does make me contemplate what flyfishing is to me (viewed as a different question than "why do you flyfish?" which is somehow easier to answer). I think it is similiar to why I bowhunt. There is an underlying aesthetic experience that goes far beyond the taking of game. I think I’ll have to mull it over for a while.  Any takers for the ethereal? Jon (better get some more coffee)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -INDICATORS IN FLY FISHING IS BOBBER FISHING Over the years, as one generation fades into the sunset, it leaves behind certain rules and manners their fore-fathers abided with . . . but if left unsaid, undisciplined, untaught to the new . . . who are left to fend for themselves,  youth resorts to invention; the father of necessity. [snip] Without compassion you have

Question:

Rhythm of the Rise thought I  would pass on a tip that I picked up from one of Doug Swisher

Question:

I live on the Olympic Peninsula in Port Angeles.  I fly fish most of the many streams both bank and float.  If you can’t afford a guide then try the Hoko, a small stream on the far west in near the town of Sekiu.  The upper reaches are the only fly fishing catch and release steelhead waters on the entire peninsula.  The best fly fishing on peninsula rivers is March when all the natives tend to be in the rivers.  The Hoh, Solduck, and Bochachial rivers are all good but best fished by boat.  If you stay in the town of Forks you can easily fish all these rivers from town. Drop me a line if you plan a trip and I may be able to give you more specific advice regarding patterns and places.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I am looking for information on steelhead fishing on the  Olympic  Peninsula in March.  I checked into a couple of guide services that go  out on the Sol Duc and Hoh rivers but they are simply too expensive.  I  would like some basic info on access, tackle, technique etc.  I hope that  the rivers will not be too high and will be accessible.   The best info I have is: Hoh River – Fall and Spring Chinook. Best in August. Good in May and November.  Winter Steelhead.  Best December into April.  Hwy 101 follows the river for about 8 miles. Sol Duc River – Fall and Spring Chinook.  Best in October.  Good in September, November, May and June.  Also carries both Summer and Winter Steelhead and a variety of Trout.  Mostly accessible from trails in Olympic National Park. Hope that’s some help.                    - Jewelee

Most interesting that the access is best from trails in the park where the river is small when there are 5 bridges over the lower river on Highway 101.  Where do you get your information? Mike

Response:

 Sol Duc River – Fall and Spring Chinook.  Best in October.  Good in  September, November, May and June.  Also carries both Summer and  Winter Steelhead and a variety of Trout.  Mostly accessible from trails  in Olympic National Park.  Hope that’s some help.                        - Jewelee  Most interesting that the access is best from trails in the park where  the river is small when there are 5 bridges over the lower river on  Highway 101.  Where do you get your information?  Mike

So you’ve got 5 access points – some of them limited, I might add – on the highway.  The lower river is best fished from a boat.  Lots of the upper river in Olympic National Park is accessible.  By the way, there is nothing wrong with small water and what you consider small is to me an ideal trout stream.

Response:

dont waste your time on areas you dont know.  Hire a guide.

Response:

I am looking for information on steelhead fishing on the  Olympic Peninsula in March.  I checked into a couple of guide services that go out on the Sol Duc and Hoh rivers but they are simply too expensive.  I would like some basic info on access, tackle, technique etc.  I hope that the rivers will not be too high and will be accessible.   Mike, Carson City, NV –

Response:

I am looking for information on steelhead fishing on the  Olympic Peninsula in March.  I checked into a couple of guide services that go out on the Sol Duc and Hoh rivers but they are simply too expensive.  I would like some basic info on access, tackle, technique etc.  I hope that the rivers will not be too high and will be accessible.   Mike, Carson City, NV –

I have a Western Washington Steelhead River Report on the Web. It is updated at least weekly and includes links to real time river flow information and graphs as well as a lot of recent fish stories. The URL is http://www.halcyon.com/dweitl/wwrive~1.htm Check it out and contribute to it. It is produced in conjunction with The Anadromous Page and made up by volunteers contributing their fishing knowledge. Check it out at http://www.peak.org/~robertr/fishing.html

Response:

 I am looking for information on steelhead fishing on the  Olympic  Peninsula in March.  I checked into a couple of guide services that go  out on the Sol Duc and Hoh rivers but they are simply too expensive.  I  would like some basic info on access, tackle, technique etc.  I hope that  the rivers will not be too high and will be accessible.  

The best info I have is: Hoh River – Fall and Spring Chinook. Best in August. Good in May and November.  Winter Steelhead.  Best December into April.  Hwy 101 follows the river for about 8 miles. Sol Duc River – Fall and Spring Chinook.  Best in October.  Good in September, November, May and June.  Also carries both Summer and Winter Steelhead and a variety of Trout.  Mostly accessible from trails in Olympic National Park. Hope that’s some help.                         – Jewelee

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Question:

Aren’t they the ones that eat their own young?

Response:

Not only will they eat their young they will also take a #28 Adams on 8X …. give it a try…. Thats how I get over cabin fever.  by the way make sure to use barbless hooks, guppies don’t seem to recover well from

Response:

Well, I was down in Louisianna and stopped off on the side of the road at a creek.  Little minnows were swimming around on the surface.  I had some #14 hooks and some little pieces of worm.  The water was about 6 feet down from where my gf and I were standing.  We let our lines down and the minnows would grab the worm, not able to get the hook in their mouth.   They would hold onto it just enough that you could sling them out of the water.  We flicked them high enough that they went flying in the air and we would catch them in our hands.  We kept them in a bucket for some catfishing that night.  They did not seem to be harmed too much by their sudden flights into the air.  Guess its another way to catch fish.

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