Question:

does anyone know of a good recreational city in northern wyoming or southern montana?  like to stay with in 400 miles of denver   – flying a 182

   Check out West Yellowstone, MT (WYS).  I stop in there at least once a year.  The Madison River and Hebgen lake are just north of the runway (good fishing).  There’s a pilots campground on the field and complimentary mountain bikes for exploring the local area.  The town is just 1.5 miles down the road and has outfitters for hiking/biking/rafting/4-wheeling trips if that’s your thing.  If you’re going to be driving around on your own, check out the nearby (20 miles?) Earthquake Lake visitor center.  The lake was formed in the 1959 earthquake when the side of a large mountain collapsed into the Madison River.  Very cool place.  For general info, check out : http://www.westyellowstonechamber.com/ already been to rapid city/devils tower.  jackson hole probably booked over weekend, and a little far.  

  Jackson Hole is an overrated tourist trap.  The FBO on the field caters to bizjets and gasoline burners are treated accordingly.  Don’t bother. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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or are there many recreational things to do it billings?  it’s directly north of cody, but can skirt around smoke if problem.  just don’t want to get "weathered in" by smoke at cody. would prefer a town that has river for fishing or rafting – and some good local restaurants and bars of course.

If you can, Butte or Missoula are awesome and have your recreation "needs".

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i am taking parents up to cody, wyoming (COD) over labor day,  first time flying with me.  (yes leaving at 6am for mom) have motel and rafting trip scheduled, but current fires there might be a prob – -especially if wind is blowing smoke into city,  and as i can attest to living in denver it’s extremely unpleasant on lungs and eyes. (and im sure airplanes)

I’m not au courant on the fires and of course in a few weeks the situation may change, so this might not help But have you considered West Yellowstone (WYS)?  You can fly through the Tetons and get in there not going over 10k or swing around to the N We were at both Cody and West Yellowstone last summer, and I liked the latter better.  It was a closer drive into Yellowstone Park, smaller city (very touristy still), beautiful airport with a nice long runway and an ILS so no problem at all landing there. I’m sure rafting trips and motels can be arranged, if not there’s a nice pilot’s campground at the airport Cheers, Sydney

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am taking parents up to cody, wyoming (COD) over labor day,  first time flying with me.  (yes leaving at 6am for mom) have motel and rafting trip scheduled, but current fires there might be a prob – -especially if wind is blowing smoke into city,  and as i can attest to living in denver it’s extremely unpleasant on lungs and eyes. (and im sure airplanes) I’m not au courant on the fires and of course in a few weeks the situation may change, so this might not help But have you considered West Yellowstone (WYS)?  You can fly through the Tetons and get in there not going over 10k or swing around to the N We were at both Cody and West Yellowstone last summer, and I liked the latter better.  It was a closer drive into Yellowstone Park, smaller city (very touristy still), beautiful airport with a nice long runway and an ILS so no problem at all landing there. I’m sure rafting trips and motels can be arranged, if not there’s a nice pilot’s campground at the airport Cheers, Sydney

Rafting trips are booked months ahead.  Hotels are scarce, at times. — Jim in NC–

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Cheney’s popping in and out of Jackson Hole (TFR Aug1-Sep1) so you may want an alternative.

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<<I am in Billings.  The smoke comes and goes.  Yesterday morning was our worst day.  It was 2 miles viz until about 8 am when a cold front came thru.  That cleared it up to about 15 mile viz. thanks for the posts and the local info. visibility is my main concern – but sounds managable – so we’ll probably still land / stay in cody, but maybe head north to billings or further for day trips if cody isn’t pleasant environment.. cough cough << Jackson Hole is an overrated tourist trap. i’ve spent new years in jackson hole once–  drove there but saw AF2 at JAC. one thing i like was teton county library south of town. largest small town library i’ve seen- modern and new titles -big bay window with deer wandering by.  nice way to spend cold afternoon. west yellowstone – western montana is definetely on my list.  now that i’m flying 182 shouldn’t be a prob for a 3-4 day trip thanks – and will post pics!

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<<I am in Billings.  The smoke comes and goes.  Yesterday morning was our worst day.  It was 2 miles viz until about 8 am when a cold front came thru.  That cleared it up to about 15 mile viz. thanks for the posts and the local info. visibility is my main concern – but sounds managable – so we’ll probably still land / stay in cody, but maybe head north to billings or further for day trips if cody isn’t pleasant environment.. cough cough

Now today we had vis of 50 miles.  Still a little fuzzy looking but flyable.

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Rafting trips are booked months ahead.  Hotels are scarce, at times.

I’m sure both are true, especially if one has specific preferences or wishes a multi-day trip or to stay at a lodge in the park. However, just for a comfortable but not fancy motel, we were there after July 4th and there were vacancies in both W. Yellowstone and Cody, at motels and at "dude ranches" outside town.  There was also space available on several different day and half-day rafting trips, trail rides etc. Whether they would have been available a week ahead of time, or whether they represented the inevitable "last minute cancellations", I can’t say. Whether the sitch is different on Labor Day, can’t say either but I suspect it’s pretty much the same. FWIW Sydney

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Got into this a bit late, but I’m a big fan of Sheridan.  Have some info and pics on my web site:  http://www.flyingmutts.com. FYI,  the Big Horn Fire that was burning NW of Sheridan is pretty much contained so that shouldn’t pose a problem  Flying time from Boulder to Sheridan in my 182 is usually about 2′15" depending on wind.   Have fun. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i am taking parents up to cody, wyoming (COD) over labor day,  first time flying with me.  (yes leaving at 6am for mom) have motel and rafting trip scheduled, but current fires there might be a prob – -especially if wind is blowing smoke into city,  and as i can attest to living in denver it’s extremely unpleasant on lungs and eyes. (and im sure airplanes) still hoping for cody, but prepping an alternate if needed.  does anyone know of a good recreational city in northern wyoming or southern montana?  like to stay with in 400 miles of denver   – flying a 182 already been to rapid city/devils tower.  jackson hole probably booked over weekend, and a little far.   anyone been to sheridan / buffalo area? or are there many recreational things to do it billings?  it’s directly north of cody, but can skirt around smoke if problem.  just don’t want to get "weathered in" by smoke at cody. would prefer a town that has river for fishing or rafting – and some good local restaurants and bars of course. thanks in advance — will post flying pics of wherever we end up!

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thanks – i’ve seen your site – nice pics – and salida and buena vista are on my list of places to go. leaving sat morning for cody – called the FBO and they said viz is been ok -but i have riverton as a b’up also taking a 182 from front range – planning 2.5 to 3 hours – if you can get to sheridan in just over 2 that’s good to hear! my only concern now is front moving in from north this weekend- hope it doesn’t make it an IFR morning still 25 hours away from that IFR checkride — but getting closer all the time…

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Now today West Yellowstone is a no go, viz about 1-2 miles around 11 am.   Hazy here in Billings and the viz is only about 30-40 miles.  There has been a lot of rain in southwestern MT over the past week. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks – i’ve seen your site – nice pics – and salida and buena vista are on my list of places to go. leaving sat morning for cody – called the FBO and they said viz is been ok -but i have riverton as a b’up also taking a 182 from front range – planning 2.5 to 3 hours – if you can get to sheridan in just over 2 that’s good to hear! my only concern now is front moving in from north this weekend- hope it doesn’t make it an IFR morning still 25 hours away from that IFR checkride — but getting closer all the time…

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i am taking parents up to cody, wyoming (COD) over labor day,  first time flying with me.  (yes leaving at 6am for mom) have motel and rafting trip scheduled, but current fires there might be a prob – -especially if wind is blowing smoke into city,  and as i can attest to living in denver it’s extremely unpleasant on lungs and eyes. (and im sure airplanes) still hoping for cody, but prepping an alternate if needed.  does anyone know of a good recreational city in northern wyoming or southern montana?  like to stay with in 400 miles of denver   – flying a 182 already been to rapid city/devils tower.  jackson hole probably booked over weekend, and a little far.   anyone been to sheridan / buffalo area? or are there many recreational things to do it billings?  it’s directly north of cody, but can skirt around smoke if problem.  just don’t want to get "weathered in" by smoke at cody. would prefer a town that has river for fishing or rafting – and some good local restaurants and bars of course. thanks in advance — will post flying pics of wherever we end up!

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Sheridan or Buffalo are definitely options. Buffalo is a little closer to Story, which is a great place to visit. OTOH, I don’t think you can get a rental car at Buffalo. Buffalo has cheaper gas than Sheridan, though, and is more of a rustic airport.

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still hoping for cody, but prepping an alternate if needed.  does anyone know of a good recreational city in northern wyoming or southern montana?  like to stay with in 400 miles of denver   – flying a 182

I am in Billings.  The smoke comes and goes.  Yesterday morning was our worst day.  It was 2 miles viz until about 8 am when a cold front came thru.  That cleared it up to about 15 mile viz.  You’ll get what you get.  You can fly to Red Lodge(RED) and have a short walk into town. It’s a cool mountain town similar to Cody.  Go to Bogarts for lunch, and don’t miss the candy store that is in a 75 year old movie theater…squeaking wood floors and all. already been to rapid city/devils tower.  jackson hole probably booked over weekend, and a little far.  

And a ton of TFR’s.  Cheney is in and out of JAC for the month of August. anyone been to sheridan / buffalo area?

I’ve been to Sheridan a few times, nice scenery. or are there many recreational things to do it billings?  it’s directly north of cody, but can skirt around smoke if problem.  just don’t want to get "weathered in" by smoke at cody.

You won’t get weathered in by smoke but you may get actual 10 mile viz, which sucks.  If you are a golfer Billings has a few places to play. would prefer a town that has river for fishing or rafting – and some good local restaurants and bars of course.

All the rivers are low right now as we have not had measureable rain for 56 days now and most of the snow has already melted off the mountains this year.   Columbus(6S3) is right on the confluence of the Stillwater and Yellowstone rivers 30 miles SW of BIL.  You can easily fish the rivers or there are numerous float operators if you want to float the river.  All towns around here have interesting bars and restaurants.  I will give you more info if you’d like.

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Question:

"Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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"Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it.

Too nice to snip, thanks George. At the risk of sounding maudlin, this describes to a T recent forays into the Blue Ridge with the NC boyos met on ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

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"Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it.

It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek (TNG) where a race of beings that communicated only by referring to other events in the past tense. "How was your trip?" "Warren and Bruiser on the Beaverhead!" ("I fished with streamers hard all day, and as usual I got skunked.") "Miller and LaCourse on the Rapid River!" ("I ran into a friend of mine, but I didn’t recognize him at first because he wasn’t attached to a stimulator.  My girlfriend caught a bigger trout than me on her second ever fly fishing attempt.") "Zimbo and Waldo at Elk River!" ("I fished with a nice gentleman and caught some nice fish, but unfortunately my reel fell into the river.  Also, I left my waders wadded up in a ball in the trunk of my car, and they now smell like shit."  (respectively) )

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….eight beats to the bar…… john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it. It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek (TNG) where a race of beings that communicated only by referring to other events in the past tense. "How was your trip?" "Warren and Bruiser on the Beaverhead!" ("I fished with streamers hard all day, and as usual I got skunked.") "Miller and LaCourse on the Rapid River!" ("I ran into a friend of mine, but I didn’t recognize him at first because he wasn’t attached to a stimulator.  My girlfriend caught a bigger trout than me on her second ever fly fishing attempt.") "Zimbo and Waldo at Elk River!" ("I fished with a nice gentleman and caught some nice fish, but unfortunately my reel fell into the river.  Also, I left my waders wadded up in a ball in the trunk of my car, and they now smell like shit."  (respectively) )

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Question:

I’m planning next year’s vacation.  I’d like to fish some rivers in Yellowstone National Park and the Henry’s fork.  As far as dry fly fishing goes, what month should I shoot for? thanks, Mike Oakland, CA

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I’m planning next year’s vacation.  I’d like to fish some rivers in Yellowstone National Park and the Henry’s fork.  As far as dry fly fishing goes, what month should I shoot for? thanks, Mike Oakland, CA

It looks like you aren’t getting any feedback, Mike. Maybe people are just tired of talking about Yellowstone and Henry’s Fork. I suggest that you use a Google search to find the trip reports in ROFF for the Yellowstone Clave (in August) and the Henry’s Fork "clave prospecting" trip (in September). — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I’ve been there the last six years.  Only fished in the park and a small stretch of the Yellowstone outside the park.  For one of the guys, this would have been his 12th year, with up to three trips per year.  My opinion, and remember it’s opinion only, follows. There’s good dry fly fishing from end of June to end of August.  It could be good other times of the year, but I don’t know since I haven’t fished other times of the year. By mid July the run off is USUALLY tapered off where all the major streams are fishable.  You also may hit the Salmon Fly hatch.  The fish haven’t been pounded and are easier to catch.  I said "eaiser", not "easy"; but, then again, that depends on what you’re used to and your ability.  I hate the flys and mosquitos this time of the year; especially the all the black flys which do not respect insect repellant.  Also the water on the streams I like to fish are a bit high and fast.  It adds a pucker factor that an easterner like me is not accustomed to.  There are other things going on that may affect your choice such as claves and the FFF thing in Livingston.  Personally, we’re going out for ten days starting August 10th.  I like it then mostly due to the lack of bugs.  Also you don’t have to take a short friend along to go first across streams that seem a little too hairy to cross.  However some of the lakes, like Trout Lake may have a little too much algae at this time.  Just my opinion.  If you ask ten peole you’ll get 15 different opinions.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning next year’s vacation.  I’d like to fish some rivers in Yellowstone National Park and the Henry’s fork.  As far as dry fly fishing goes, what month should I shoot for? thanks, Mike Oakland, CA

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Question:

Warren Findley: Other question.  Where do you find those colored beads at?

Spirit River makes them and I get them from Hunter’s.  You don’t have to tie the grw with them — it’s just an experiment and it seems to work (i.e., I caught fish with them).  Gold and copper work just as well. Dave LaCourse

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The shops I go to only has black, brass, silver, copper and gold.  Is there a place to mail order these or something?  I really like those colored beads.

Some of those strange colored beads are available from Orvis, and knowing Dave I suspect that is where he got his. If you want to mail order some very cool ones check out the plastic ones from Mike Hogue at MWFlytying.com. He has two types of colored plastic beads available, one type sinks and the other type float. Once he bought his Sage 0 weight for bluegill fishing he found that it was too light to be able to use normal metal beadhead flies, so he developed a couple of sources for different plastic beads. Also check out his pattern pages as he has some pretty cool flies on there as well. I think you will enjoy doing business with him. I have been a happy customer for several years now. When he goes to conclaves his mother and father help man his booth. You will have a chance to meet him During the FFF Conclave in August as he is teaching a class there. He knows his stuff and if he is doing a program on warmwater fly fishing you should try to attend if possible. Usual disclaimers, I am just a happy customer.He carries unusual materials at very good prices. I know I always seem to drop another hundred bucks on tying materials each time I order or see him at the Southern Conclave each year.   Big Dale

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Bid D. writes: Some of those strange colored beads are available from Orvis, and knowing Dave I suspect that is where he got his. If you want to mail order some very cool ones check out the plastic ones from Mike Hogue at MWFlytying.com. He has two types of colored plastic beads available, one type sinks and the other type float. Once he bought his Sage 0 weight for bluegill fishing he found that it was too light to be able to use normal metal beadhead flies, so he developed a couple of sources for different plastic beads.

I’ve never seen colored beads at Orvis.  Of course I only go there to buy doggie beds, maple syrup, silk shirts and lamps.  <g  The Spirit River beads are metal, probably alluminum.  The colors are baked on enamel (or so the package says).  I’ve seen and used the plastic ones.  I believe I  also bought them at Hunter’s. Dave LaCourse

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Compliments of Google: http://www.westfly.com/patterns/wet/greenrockworm.htm

You can also tie it without the beadhead.  Just dub the head a dark brown and pull out some on the bottom for legs.

Does anyone know why that LaFontaine tie has such long hackle sticking out for legs?  I don’t get it. — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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This is starting to sound a lot like a green-bodied GRHE.   The pattern on westfly.com has legs.   No legs on the LaPlac version? Joe F.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The LaFontaine version is a pretty good fly.  However, THE Green Rock Worm is as follows: Hook:  TMC 2487, size 12 – 16 Bead Head:  Gold, copper, green, black. Body:  V-rib or Larva Lace in the brightest green you can find (almost chartreause). Thorax:  Peacock herl. I sometimes build up the body with thread, making it narrow near the bend and wider near the thorax.  I then coat it with a sparkle polish.  This can be seen between the wraps of the Larva Lace and gives it some flash., Another  variation: Ribbing:  fine gold or copper wire. Body:  Bright green dubbing. You can also tie it without the beadhead.  Just dub the head a dark brown and pull out some on the bottom for legs. Dave LaCourse

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Charlie writes: I think that’s all LaPlac uses<g, I’m sure he’ll post his version. At the first clave I believe he gave away a set of what he said were the various ‘phases’ of the GRW, but I expect they were really just the same pattern tied over the course of a bottle of Stoli<g. — Charlie…

Not really.  Found three new patterns this spring, and they all worked as well. The flies I gave at the clave were all variations of caddis worms/larva/pupa, but not necessarily just the rock worm.  If I remember correctly, there was a grw, a couple of emergers, and a cased caddis.  The grw is a net builder, not a case builder. Dave LaCourse

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Joe F. This is starting to sound a lot like a green-bodied GRHE.   The pattern on westfly.com has legs.   No legs on the LaPlac version?

Normally, no.  But, the worm does have some legs up front, so without the bead head, pull out some of the dubbing to make it bushy.  Works for me……. Dave LaCourse

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Not really.  

I was just kidding. IIRC you included a sheet with some facts about each tie. Very nice. — Charlie…

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Peter Charles (Charlie’s understudy) writes: (snipped hilarity) Also look up GGW, "Green Grenade Warm"  and GTNTW "Green Dynamite Worm" for related ties. Recipe related to me by that famous practionner of the GRW, Louie LaPlac.

ROFL.  Wait until you see the Henry’s Ear (variation of the Hares Ear), the Black Rock Worm, and Henry’s Tail (variation of a PT).   Bring some streamer tying materials to the clave, Peter.  A fellow roffian gifted me with a book on Carrie Stevens and I would like to tie some streamers.  Great book, BTW. Hunter’s Angling has promised a copy for the Maine Clave raffle. Dave LaCourse

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The LaFontaine version is a pretty good fly.  However, THE Green Rock Worm is as follows:

One more question on this one.   You’re using white or light colored thread, yes?   I tied one with black thread & it sure didn’t look like much (duh).    Haven’t found chartreuse Larva Lace locally yet; I’m working with V-rib until I put in an order with H&H. (Maybe I’ll just wait and pick some up in Freeport, then tie ‘em up lakeside by lantern light.   Ah, the romance.) Joe F.

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Joe Fleischman writes: One more question on this one.   You’re using white or light colored thread, yes?   I tied one with black thread & it sure didn’t look like much (duh).   Haven’t found chartreuse Larva Lace locally yet; I’m working with V-rib until I put in an order with H&H. (Maybe I’ll just wait and pick some up in Freeport, then tie ‘em up lakeside by lantern light.   Ah, the romance.) Joe F.

I usually use green thread, but white or whatever should work, *except* black or any other dark color. When are you leaving for Moosehead?  I have your address, so I could send you some along with some larva lace.  No problem. Dave LaCourse

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Should have added, Joe:  Try tying it with dubbing and gold ribbing, with peacock herl at the thorax.  It actually works as well as the v-rib.  V-rib is easier to tie.   Let me know when you are leaving and I will get a CARE package off to you, including some dubbing. Dave LaCourse

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Should have added, Joe:  Try tying it with dubbing and gold ribbing, with peacock herl at the thorax.  It actually works as well as the v-rib.  V-rib is easier to tie.   Let me know when you are leaving and I will get a CARE package off to you, including some dubbing.

Actually, you offered that variation in a previous post.   I think I’m well covered for most of the ingredients except the larva lace.   I have beads in various sizes & colors, dubbing, gold thread, peacock herl, & hooks.   I didn’t spend $200, but I made a respectable dent in a C-note.  :-)   I picked up some Antron dubbing in a sparkle chartreuse that looks neat for the GRW, but I haven’t tied anything with it yet. Joe F.

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Joe, package is ready and will be in the mail tomorrow morning.  I’ve included a couple of different ties, plus two size 20 midges that I *hope* will float vertically.  At least that is the way I tied them to fload.  I have seen these small midges caught in the foam on the Rapid and have tied them from memory — but, I *am* an old geezer, so can’t say they’ll work.  Give ‘em a try and let me know.  Don’t cast them — dab them down-stream in small gentle riffle/current. Dave LaCourse

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One more question on this one.   You’re using white or light colored thread, yes?   I tied one with black thread & it sure didn’t look like much (duh).   Haven’t found chartreuse Larva Lace locally yet; I’m working with V-rib until I put in an order with H&H.

Couldn’t you use clear Larva Lace wrapped over chartreuse floss? Regards, Jeff

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jeff c. Yep.  But it doesn’t look very much like the natural.  The bright green larva lace or the dubbing ribbed mimics the natural. Dave LaCourse

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Should have added, Joe:  Try tying it with dubbing and gold ribbing, with peacock herl at the thorax.  It actually works as well as the v-rib.  V-rib is easier to tie.   Let me know when you are leaving and I will get a CARE package off to you, including some dubbing. Dave LaCourse

I’ve tied the BHGRW three different ways: using the bright green lace wo/rib, using a bright green floss under clear lace again sans rib, and using the same floss with a gold wire rib. Always a bead (sometimes brass, sometimes tungsten) and always peacock herl. daytripper (It’s all good! ;^)

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Joe, package is ready and will be in the mail tomorrow morning.  I’ve included a couple of different ties, plus two size 20 midges that I *hope* will float vertically.  At least that is the way I tied them to fload.  I have seen these small midges caught in the foam on the Rapid and have tied them from memory — but, I *am* an old geezer, so can’t say they’ll work.  Give ‘em a try and let me know.  Don’t cast them — dab them down-stream in small gentle riffle/current.

Thanks.   I’ll wait with much anticipation.   Joe F. (Just downloaded new newsgroup software & have no idea if this will appear correctly; but if so, I’ll finally be able to read ROFF at home.)

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Thanks.   I’ll wait with much anticipation.

I apologize for my roffian Grandpa Joe.  "fload" should be "float."  He may not be able to type worth a crap, but I’ll be damned if he can’t drive a car like all hell.  Just wish that lead foot would have found its way out to the clave. Actually I am replying because I really do have a question.  I tied up a dozen of these bad boys today and they didn’t exactly turn out quite like I hoped, but they are pretty damn neat.  My first problem was the I got the medium larva lace instead of small because it looked small enough. Second was that it is too light in color.  I mean this s.o.b. looks like some kind of radioactive glow stick!  Might work well like that, but my question is would changing to a more olive thread help tone it down a bit? Other question.  Where do you find those colored beads at?  The shops I go to only has black, brass, silver, copper and gold.  Is there a place to mail order these or something?  I really like those colored beads. The caddis is out and about over here so I plan on using a bunch of these during the clave.  I devoted this weekend to tying caddis and quit and moved on to other things out of boredom already.  I have been at the vise all day.  I did the caddis Herman tied, Dave’s GRW, X-caddis, Goddard caddis, and EHCs. Got a little bored so I moved on to humpies and now am at stimulators in size 12-16.  Just going crazy over here.  Even tied up a bunch of those tiny little things Willi tied for the fly swap.  Those were pretty fun and not all that difficult once you get used to the material.  The main problem with those is actually seeing them.  Thank god for that magnifier light I have and I even have 20/20+ vision! <g BTW, Joe you made it out of the fly shop easier than I did today.  I fell between you and Dave.  Nearly broke myself and the clave still hasn’t started. Oh well, bills can wait another month <g Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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Thanks to Dave L’s reminder, I began looking through Deja News for intructions on tying the GRW (I’d have sworn it was posted here once before).   Couldn’t find it.   How do I tie this?   Or do you have to kill me if you tell me?  :-) Joe F.

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Thanks to Dave L’s reminder, I began looking through Deja News for intructions on tying the GRW (I’d have sworn it was posted here once before).   Couldn’t find it.   How do I tie this?   Or do you have to kill me if you tell me?  :-)

Compliments of Google: http://www.westfly.com/patterns/wet/greenrockworm.htm — Charlie…

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Compliments of Google: http://www.westfly.com/patterns/wet/greenrockworm.htm

Yep, thanks.   I found that one as well as a few more, none of which seem to agree on any component material except maybe their color.   If there’s a "ROFF standard" version, tested and sworn to success by our numerous and talented field staff, I’d love to hear it.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

If there’s a "ROFF standard" version, tested and sworn to success by our numerous and talented field staff, I’d love to hear it.  :-)

I think that’s all LaPlac uses<g, I’m sure he’ll post his version. At the first clave I believe he gave away a set of what he said were the various ‘phases’ of the GRW, but I expect they were really just the same pattern tied over the course of a bottle of Stoli<g. — Charlie…

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Joe F. writes: Compliments of Google: http://www.westfly.com/patterns/wet/greenrockworm.htm Yep, thanks.   I found that one as well as a few more, none of which seem to agree on any component material except maybe their color.   If there’s a "ROFF standard" version, tested and sworn to success by our numerous and talented field staff, I’d love to hear it.  :-) Joe F.

The LaFontaine version is a pretty good fly.  However, THE Green Rock Worm is as follows: Hook:  TMC 2487, size 12 – 16 Bead Head:  Gold, copper, green, black. Body:  V-rib or Larva Lace in the brightest green you can find (almost chartreause). Thorax:  Peacock herl. I sometimes build up the body with thread, making it narrow near the bend and wider near the thorax.  I then coat it with a sparkle polish.  This can be seen between the wraps of the Larva Lace and gives it some flash., Another  variation: Ribbing:  fine gold or copper wire. Body:  Bright green dubbing. You can also tie it without the beadhead.  Just dub the head a dark brown and pull out some on the bottom for legs. Dave LaCourse

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Yep, thanks.   I found that one as well as a few more, none of which seem to agree on any component material except maybe their color.   If there’s a "ROFF standard" version, tested and sworn to success by our numerous and talented field staff, I’d love to hear it.  :-) Joe F.

ROFF standard GRW. 3 lb. rock mashed up worm green paint XINK Take three or four big juicy worms, place them in a bowl, empty the contents of the XINK bottle into a bowl then mash worms and mix thoroughly.  Take a nice smooth rock, spray with flourescent green paint then when dry, spread the XINK soaked mashed worm all over it. Keep refridgerated. Instructions on use: Locate salmonid Throw rock at it. Stand by with net to scoop salmonid. If the rock misses the salmonid, remain vigilant as within a few moments, the toxic chemicals in XINK will undoutedly result in the demise of the salmonid.  Do not dispense with the the mashed worm as it aids in the distribution of the XINK.  The green paint allows the fisherman to locate his rock should he ever put it down amongst other rocks. Also look up GGW, "Green Grenade Warm"  and GTNTW "Green Dynamite Worm" for related ties. Recipe related to me by that famous practionner of the GRW, Louie LaPlac. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

 What’s he do?   He hands his rod to my son to play it.   Ya gotta love a guy who would do that for a kid.

A story worth reading to the last full stop, just for this bit. Thanks Joe. — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk

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The end of the shad run is near, and my buddy was heading up to Deer Creek for the evening, so I lobbied SWMBO for a few hours of freedom after work. It helped that I still hadn’t given Craig his birthday present from two months ago.   So I got home from work, grilled a few burgers, and had a quick dinner with the family unit before bolting for the river. My son had a lot of homework to do for school, but I was willing to cut him a little slack on that if he PROMISED to do it quickly and neatly on our return.   (He did.)   All of my stuff was already in the trunk, and I grabbed his waders and rod and we were gone. We got there about an hour before sunset, usually a good time for the action to pick up.   The best hole above the bridge was pretty crowded with about a half dozen anglers, but as we suited up, an old guy headed for shore, leaving us a decent space just upstream from my buddy.   This time, I had rigged both rods.   My son was going to fish on his own. I gave him a quick lesson on how to strip in the sink tip and shoot it out again on the cast, and he managed to reach a useful level of mastery in a short time.   I think it helped a lot that the fly line gives such visible and instant feedback when you screw up.   It didn’t take him long to see what a good cast looked like, even if it took him longer to do it more frequently.   Not waiting long enough on the back cast was his most chronic problem. I fished just upstream from him and caught a decent fish early, but it became clear that the run was about played out.   I never hooked another one, and neither my buddy or his guest caught anything in the hour and a half we were there.   But as darkness approached, my son got a good hit that surprised the heck out of him.  He managed to set the hook, but the calm (really) advice of dad wasn’t enough, and he lost it.   Still, it was another of those great moments of discovery for him. Now, standing in the middle of the river and casting into the deeper channel against the far shore was obviously unproductive, but that’s still where the fish were, so we persisted.   Except my son.   He says, "can I fish the other way?" and I figure, why not.   He turns around, casts back toward shore, and hooks up on the first cast.   Damned cool.   He lost that one too, but he felt smarter than the rest of us for hooking it. In closing, I’ll add a story about why my fishing buddy is a good friend of mine.   We’d been there for an hour and a half, with little or no action. Cast, drift, cast again.   Nothing.   It was especially tough for my buddy, because he was just upstream from the guy in the honey hole who was catching fish after fish.   So when I went ashore to the car to get something, I left my son out there next to Craig.   And, after an hour an a half of catching nothing, Craig finally hooks one.   What’s he do?   He hands his rod to my son to play it.   Ya gotta love a guy who would do that for a kid. Joe F.

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NEAT-O!!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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The end of the shad run is near, and my buddy was heading up to Deer Creek for the evening, so I lobbied SWMBO for a few hours of freedom after work.

    (great story snipped)   And, after an hour an a half of catching nothing, Craig finally hooks one.   What’s he do?   He hands his rod to my son to play it.   Ya gotta love a guy who would do that for a kid.

    my best friend would have done just the opposite.  when your boy made his offside hookup, pamlico jim would have torn the rod from the kid’s hand and yelled for him to keep the hell out of the way until he had the fish in hand.  but, ya gotta love him, too; he will shoot your ass if you don’t. you will meet him at the clave. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

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Question:

…[I] would like to be able to lie about my exploits with at least a grain of truth.  This is an admirable start to a fly fishing life.  When you learn to lie without the slightest speck of truth you will have arrived as an "expert."

        right as rain, jeff.  it is an  undertaking which can take decades to perfect.  however, one can seize a considerable advantage by attending a good law school.         wayno         l.l.b., unc ‘69

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I love flyfishing. I’ve been out 6 or 7 times as there are not many trout steams in North Texas.

No kidding! I’ve taken lessons on casting but have a very difficult time reading the stream and presenting the fly. I do plan to retain a guide late this summer

… Good idea. When you are shoppng for a guide, be sure to tell the guide or outfitter that you want to learn how to read a stream and present a fly. Their response should indicate that they are able to focus the trip on your interest in learning those things in particular. You will get a lot more from your guide when your objectives are clear. If they don’t want to tailor the trip to your needs, keep shopping. And don’t worry about the "truth in lying" issue. In the first place, they aren’t going to believe you anyway so it doesn’t matter what you tell them. <g In the second place, a good story is generally more entertaining than the truth. Regards, Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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I love flyfishing. I’ve been out 6 or 7 times as there are not many trout steams in North Texas. I am not obsessed with catching fish, but I would like to experience the fight a little more often than I have. (I’ve caught 2 small rainbows and released them) I’ve taken lessons on casting but have a very difficult time reading the stream and presenting the fly. any recommendations on videos, books or other resources I might benefit from. I do plan to retain a guide late this summer in Colorado, but I have an opportunity to do some fishing in northern Arkansas in two weeks and would like to be able to lie about my exploits with at least a grain of truth. thanks,

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I do plan to retain a guide late this summer in Colorado, but I have an opportunity to do some fishing in northern Arkansas in two weeks and would like to be able to lie about my exploits with at least a grain of truth.

The guide is a great idea, but you’re gonna have to loosen up on the lying. I realize you’re relatively new to the sport but grains of truth are not expected, assumed or even desired. As far as north Arkansas, fly fisherman are the minority. Most use eggs, corn kernels etc. with spinning rigs. My recommendation would be to skip the White and go straight for the Norfolk. Better, safer wading and more fly fisherman, most of whom are more than willing to share advice (but remember what I said about loosening up). You’ll want sow bugs, 12, 14 & 16 and sculpins 4, 6 & 8. Hardly ever anything on the surface, unfortunately. There’s a great fly shop in Mountain Home, stop in, spend a buck or two and ask questions. Reading water takes time, lots of it. That’s why most of us enjoy this sport so. Always something to learn, to be in tune with, to be surprised by. Good luck ! — Ken Fortenberry

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…[I] would like to be able to lie about my exploits with at least a grain of truth.

  This is an admirable start to a fly fishing life.  When you learn to lie without the slightest speck of truth you will have arrived as an "expert."

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TMac wrote I love flyfishing. I’ve been out 6 or 7 times as there are not many trout steams in North Texas. I am not obsessed with catching fish, but I would like to experience the fight a little more often than I have. (I’ve caught 2 small rainbows and released them) I’ve taken lessons … [snip]

Try searching for a fly fishing club in your area.  Even if trout aren’t too plentiful in your neck of the woods, there still might be a fishing club  (I live in San Diego where stream trout are few, but we have a good size club where I’ve learned a hell of a lot), and such clubs are generally very supportive of neophytes.  Good luck. —                                                       -dnc-

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I’ve taken lessons on casting but have a very difficult time reading the stream and presenting the fly. any recommendations on videos, books or other resources I might benefit from.

I read Tom Rosenbauer’s "Reading Trout Streams", and found it very helpful early on. Michael

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I love flyfishing. I’ve been out 6 or 7 times as there are not many trout steams in North Texas. I am not obsessed with catching fish, but I would like to experience the fight a little more often than I have. (I’ve caught 2 small rainbows and released them) I’ve taken lessons on casting but have a very difficult time reading the stream and presenting the fly. any recommendations on videos, books or other resources I might benefit from. I do plan to retain a guide late this summer in Colorado, but I have an opportunity to do some fishing in northern Arkansas in two weeks and would like to be able to lie about my exploits with at least a grain of truth. thanks,

Start with panfish!!!! then bass!!!, Poppers(small) wooly buggers, streamers, cricket(flys), crawdad(flys). You’ll have stories to tell.                                                          John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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Question:

Vinsel) writes: This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info?

The impregnation system that Orvis used and still uses is a phenolic resin.  Originally it was bakelite, in fact some of the rods from 1946 said "Bakelite Impregnated".  It’s changed a little since then, but not much.   Wes Jordan was the first rod maker to successfully apply impregnation to bamboo rods in 1946.  It drove him nuts during World War II that Orvis could make impregnated bamboo ski poles for the ski troops for the war effort that were impervious to heat and moisture and yet could not produce a bamboo rod with predictable action with the same process.  He finally figured out that by flaming the rod to remove most of the moisture content, building the rod completely and by cooking it at precisely controlled temperatures in the phenolic resin for a couple of days he could impregnate the rod with the resin and achieve predictable results. Then, to demonstrate that the impregnated rod was impervious to weather and for advertisement purposes, he would freeze a rod in a 50 lb. block of ice and then pour boiling water over the ice until the it melted away from the rod.  In 1946 there were no varnishes that could withstand this treatment. If the impregnation process was improperly done it could make the rod heavy and "loggy".  Properly done, the impregnation goes into the cane a few thousandths of an inch and replaces the residual moisuture usually found in the power fibers.The heat curing process (originally flamed, now done with a heat box) makes the rod stiffer and allows it to be impregnated with the resin.  Without the heat curing process, there is too much moisture in the bamboo to impregnate the rod successfully. Impregnating the rod is an extra step and although it eliminates the varnishing process, it is more time consuming than varnishing and  If you don’t control the heat of the phenolic resin precisely, you ruin the rod. Action of the rod is more dependant on the design of the rod not the impregnation of it.  If you pick up an Orvis "Wes Jordan era" rod it will be almost mahogany in color from the flaming and faster in action than the rods currently produced.  This is due in large part to the preference of the rod designer Wes Jordan.  Howard Steare, who worked with Wes and took over rod production after Wes Jordan retired, preferred a higher moisture content in the bamboo which resulted in a slower action.  Howard retired a couple of years ago and for the first time in many years Orvis is producing 3 new bamboo rods for 1997 with reportedly crisper and quicker actions.  I’ll be curious to get them in my hands. You can find some more info on this at the Orvis web site (www.orvis.com) under the "timeline" part of the Orvis story section.  You can jump right to it at the following url "http://www.alloutdoors.com/orvis/Story/Impregbamb.html"  There is also a book out about Wes Jordan from Centennial Press that has a lot more info.                                         Hope this helps,                                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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[stuff deleted] This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today? Impregnating the rod is a way a few manufacturers finish their rods, but in general, impregnation slows down the action of a rod. The air spaces get filled with epoxy, adding to the weight, thus slowing down the action. There is a saying that Orvis makes their rods to last, not to cast.

Well, almost.  I worked for Leonard in the late 70s.  The Duracane impregnated rod blanks were made for Leonard to their specs in England. The stuff used was bakelite, if I remember correctly.  I’m pretty sure it wasn’t epoxy.  As for weight, the impregnated rods were pretty close to the weight of the varnished rods, they just didn’t have as complex tapers, as thin tips, or as fancy reelseats, although they did have silk wraps, very nice wood reelseats, and the same nickel- silver ferrules.  I always sort of wished I had bought a Duracane 7′ 4 wt. since they cast beautifully.  In fact, the entire Duracane line was very, very nice. As for impregnation, it only soaks in a few thousands of an inch, hardly enough to affect the action in any really meaningful way. As for Orvis, if you don’t like the way their rods cast, it’s because of the design, not because of the impregnating.  Orvis rods have very slow tapers.  This is because that’s how they want them.  It would take a little more work to make a rod with a very thin tip, but in general, Orvis cane rods have slow actions because that’s how they were designed. Barry Smith

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I don’t think epoxy varnish is correct. I am not familiar with epoxy varnish but in general epoxies are two-part systems that you mix, and when they solidify they are very difficult to remove. Most epoxies are clouded and weakened by UV light so I don’t think this is right for an overall coating, unless you were going to varnish over the epoxy (getting pretty thick by now…)

You are right, most epoxies are unsuitable for coating, although as coating for guide wraps they work fine. I think you want a marine-grade spar varnish, which would be phenolic or polyurethane based, with a UV inhibitor.  That way you can remove it with alcohol and steel wool to restore every twenty years or so.

There are several ways to finish a cane rod. Tung oil, spar varnish, or polyurethane varnish can be used. Polyurethane is probably the most resistant to water, solvents, weather, etc., but the hardest to refinish if it ever becomes neccesary to do so. About the only way to remove polyurethane is to sand it off. This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info?

Impregnating the rod is a way a few manufacturers finish their rods, but in general, impregnation slows down the action of a rod. The air spaces get filled with epoxy, adding to the weight, thus slowing down the action. There is a saying that Orvis makes their rods to last, not to cast. Darryl Hayashida

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… you can improve the stick’s water resistance by a couple of thin coats of epoxy varnish…

I don’t think epoxy varnish is correct. I am not familiar with epoxy varnish but in general epoxies are two-part systems that you mix, and when they solidify they are very difficult to remove. Most epoxies are clouded and weakened by UV light so I don’t think this is right for an overall coating, unless you were going to varnish over the epoxy (getting pretty thick by now…) I think you want a marine-grade spar varnish, which would be phenolic or polyurethane based, with a UV inhibitor.  That way you can remove it with alcohol and steel wool to restore every twenty years or so. This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info? Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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I found an old cane rod that hasn’t much care recently.  One wrap is starting to loosen.  What solution does one use on the wraps to hold them and what does one put on the cane to waterproof it? Thanks

Response:

I found an old cane rod that hasn’t much care recently.  One wrap is starting to loosen.  What solution does one use on the wraps to hold them and what does one put on the cane to waterproof it?

Don’t put adhesives on loose wrap.  Carefully cut the old whipping off and redo it afresh.  (If one has already loosened, another is going to soon, and every handy angler needs to know how to make a neat whipping.  It’s not difficult.) If you know this is a good stick, you might as well refinish it throughout, whipping on new (rustproof) guides correctly spaced and sized.  If you remove everything except ferrules and handle, you can improve the stick’s water resistance by a couple of thin coats of epoxy varnish, before you reattach guides (at least 2 weeks later, to be sure the varnish is totally dry.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

There is a fly tying cd (perhaps 2) available in both Mac and PC-compatible format (but not necessarily the same cd). Anyway, has anyone know of or have seen a reputable mail order firm that offers these at a discount? — dept of math/cs ut martin

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There is a fly tying cd (perhaps 2) available in both Mac and PC-compatible format (but not necessarily the same cd). Anyway, has anyone know of or have seen a reputable mail order firm that offers these at a discount?

Hi Jim I think the CD you are looking for is Tying Flies for Trout by Dick Stewart and Farrow Allen.  It’s available through Bob Mariotts at 800-535-6633 (orders) or 800-367-2299 (fax orders).  Also get his catalog, it’s the most incredible catalog/information source you’ll ever see. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Fabulous blue, striper and false albacore fly rod fishing at the point. Huge schools of blues hitting all day long (4-10 lbs.), bass averaging about 10-15 lbs with some as large as 35 lbs,  Albacore in and out of the blue schools hitting like  subway trains.  Incredible fly rod fishing both off the surf, jetties and especialy from small boats just outside the surf line.  Should get even better in the next few weeks.

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10/10 I was at Montauk Point yesterday and it was incredibly crowded. For safety sake, I kept my 9wt  out of the action. Stripers and blues were around all day, largely within reach of only the longest surfcasters. When they came in close, it was a free for all. I watched one guy hook a 30 inch striper and then get hooked himself by an errant surfcaster as he fought the fish. It was wild as usual!  Flyfishers in boats were getting their gas money’s worth of action Nothing much was doing at Gin Beach, Ditch Plains or Fort Pond Bay during daylight hours. Where have you had your luck? David

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Question:

: Permits are not necessary. This is not entirely true, folks coming from the states have to have Crown Land Camping Permits to camp on any Crown Land north of the French/Mattawa line. I’m not sure about whether it is still in force, but I heard that the price was up to $10/percson/day. — Dave Robinson Toronto, Ont. Canada

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You do need a permit if you are a U.S. citizen and not using a Canadian outfitter.  If you have a guide, rented a canoe or were outfitted by a Canadian store, you do not need a permit. I had a waiver from the ONtario MNR a few years ago because I was leading a group from a non-profit organization.  They gave me a letter exempting us from the permit for our trip. – Andrew — Andrew Lederman SMD ‘97 University of Virginia

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I’m planning a canoe trip to Wabakimi Provincial Park, Ontario.  Anyone have any info on that area?  I understand that I can have a train drop us off at the park.  Is this true?  Does anyone know if there is a fee for camping?  I would really like to know what the area is like.  My only info so far is the book "Canoeing Ontario’s Rivers" by Ron Reid and Janet Grand.  I haven’t planned a date yet, but I’m thinking about mid to late August.  Any info would be helpful. Thanks!!! Dick Raffl

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m planning a canoe trip to Wabakimi Provincial Park, Ontario. Anyone have any info on that area?  I understand that I can have a train drop us off at the park.  Is this true?  Does anyone know if there is a fee for camping?  I would really like to know what the area is like.  My only info so far is the book "Canoeing Ontario’s Rivers" by Ron Reid and Janet Grand.  I haven’t planned a date yet, but I’m thinking about mid to late August.  Any info would be helpful. Thanks!!! Dick Raffl

Write to :   Ontario Ministry Of Natural Resources              P.O. Box 970, Nipigon              Ontario POT  2J0 Ask them to sent you the brochure Nipigon Canoe Routes. This will outline all of the possible routes in the Wabakimi area. You can then select a route and write to them for more detailed information such as portages, ect.  It is possible to take the train from Armstrong and have them drop you off at the Allanwater bridge: from there you take a route that brings you back through Caribou Lake. Permits are not necessary. A word of caution: some of these lakes are quite large; it’s easy to become windbound for several days. There is also a lot of fly-in fishing traffic in this area, but once you get out it can be very remote.

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