Question:

minutes explaining my business in Canada (work trip to my company’s YWG facility; the word "work" must have triggered the big red alarm).

Yep. That is a big no-no, especially when a canadian self employed goes to the USA. "Going to a meeting" is a much more acceptable reason for travel.

Response:

Canada) through Chicago.  Air Canada services us from all other major cities in Canada, Except the second largest one… but that’s AC’s fault, not yours. Air Canada does link Winterpeg with Vancouver with at least one non-stop per day.

But to come back to the question, AC lists two connections/day SFO-YWG. Morning one thru YVR indeed, and afternoon one thru YYC.  Thru YYC is shorter; and there are four nonstop flights to YWG.

Response:

fishing, one of the greatest areas in the world for lake fishing is about a two hour drive east of Winnipeg, just over the border into Ontario. No ! Don’t risk your life on highway 17. Stay in Manitoba. just before the ontario border where the trans canada highway narrows into a country road, there is a nice park to the right. I think it it is on the shores of lake of the woods.

I don’t think they will be riding bicycles.   Besides, 30 miles on a two lane highway is no impediment to people who really like fishing.

Response:

Yes, its bloody cold outside. You get used to it.  It’s nice in the summer though, for those 4 months. 4 months ?  I guess if you define winter as temperatures below -20, spring and automn as temperatures below 0, then summer could be 4 months long …. In Montreal, true summer is about 4 weeks (when you can go outside in short sleeves and not have to worry about being cold during the day).

Yes, I remember my one and only (so far) trip to Canada which was spent entirely in Qu

Question:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there. I just go with plain old felts (i don’t have studded wading shoes) and the "linked recovery" wading method.  I’ll have a non folding wading staff for whoever wants to use it. You can get away without one, but if (just two examples) you want to fish the narrow chute along the north bank above the Cable Pool – or for that matter, fish the main stem along the Cable Pool, you’re gonna wish you did have a staff. /daytripper (Won’t leave home sans Folstaff)

Wading there and in most places is dependent on flows. Typically flows are down in the Winter. Willi

Response:

<snipped Danl, Weather right now is in the 40’s. http://www.weather.com/weather/cities/us_nm_navajo_dam.html I don’t think you will need a wading staff, but you might want to consider studs or some boot chains.  The rocks are a little slippery, but the water is really low. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there.

 …..good advice snipped….. Bruce, Thanks for the heads up on the clothing. Danl

Response:

Blackcat, Thanks for the update and link. You say the water is really low now. Does the flow (release from the dam) fluctuate a lot during the winter? Danl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Weather right now is in the 40’s. http://www.weather.com/weather/cities/us_nm_navajo_dam.html I don’t think you will need a wading staff, but you might want to consider studs or some boot chains.  The rocks are a little slippery, but the water is really low. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there. I just go with plain old felts (i don’t have studded wading shoes) and the "linked recovery" wading method.  I’ll have a non folding wading staff for whoever wants to use it.

You can get away without one, but if (just two examples) you want to fish the narrow chute along the north bank above the Cable Pool – or for that matter, fish the main stem along the Cable Pool, you’re gonna wish you did have a staff. /daytripper (Won’t leave home sans Folstaff)

Response:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there. I just go with plain old felts (i don’t have studded wading shoes) and the "linked recovery" wading method.  I’ll have a non folding wading staff for whoever wants to use it. As for the temps, it can be from 20 to 60.  It’s usually really cold in the early am and you find yourself peeling layers as the day warms up, like everywhere.  One thing for sure – the water is cold and your feet get cold no matter what.  Getting out of the water for a few minutes does the trick though. If you have a waterproof jacket with a hood, bring it.  I will also have both breathable and neoprene waders.  Fleece pants are needed if you’re wearing something other than neoprene waders. There’s an excellent report from Resolution Guide Service on http://www.ifly4trout.com – updated yesterday.  There’s some chance that the lake will be "turning over" and the water murky.  If that’s the case, there will be less sight fishing, and maybe less dry activity, and more blind casting nymphs.  Pray for clear water. Strong Hooks, bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

In that case, I recommend a cheap and plentiful supply of brandy for the fishing hours.

Can’t! Then what would we do in the non-fishing hours? Danl

Response:

Did you say that a folstaff or equivalent was mandatory or at least highly reccommended for the wading impaired such as myself? BTW, Aaron at Rizzuto’s said we should expect daytime temps in the 30’s, zat right??

In that case, I recommend a cheap and plentiful supply of brandy for the fishing hours. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

   Bob Skinner and I will be leaving early Fri morning, with about 8 hours driving time we should be there by cocktail hour.

Charlie,   I don’t know.  With this group of guys, we may have to leave Denver around 2:00 am in order to get there by cocktail hour:) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

PS    When I a was much younger person, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a veterinarian who had both arms, up to the elbows, inside a cow helping to deliver her breeched calf. Hot bovine body fluids were splattering both of us from multiple orifices while we stood and knelt in a well used barn on a hot summer day. Until I read the posts of the last weeks, that experience was my baseline on the disgust-o-meter. Now I have a new baseline. The cow and the vet were doing the best they could under the circumstances. The end justified the means. I won’t accept that argument here.

  Damn candy ass!  You had a vet?  Your "disgust-O-meter" is calibrated differently than mine.  How about removal of—–oh, nevermind.  Not on a "familly" newsgroup. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

OK, here’s the straight dirt, in order of importance: (really good time stuff snipped) Whatever I can do to make it easier for any of you, I’ll do.  Just let me know. bruce h

    god, i am envious. wayno

Response:

Whatever I can do to make it easier for any of you, I’ll do.  Just let me know.

You could move New Mexico about two or three travel days closer to North Dakota, so that I would be able to come… Kevin, green with envy

Response:

OK, here’s the straight dirt, in order of importance: 1.  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Hornitos or Herrardura Tequila.  Buy in Aztec or Bloomfield or Albuquerque.  I have some tequila.  Of course you can rely on me for the "cheapest liquor" info.

 …other great info and awesome display of preparedness snipped…. Bruce, Thanks for the offer of the room, but I’ve already burned the plastic for a room at Rizzuto’s. I wish I could figure a way to bring a keg of Dortmunder, but another time. Did you say that a folstaff or equivalent was mandatory or at least highly reccommended for the wading impaired such as myself? BTW, Aaron at Rizzuto’s said we should expect daytime temps in the 30’s, zat right?? Danl

Response:

Anyone know what Bruiser drinks, besides pond water of course?  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

All, Actually, Aztec is closer, and cheaper! Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped Danl, You can buy beer in Navajo Dam, just not any hard liquor on Sunday. The prices are pretty expensive too.  I would pick up something in Farmington. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

OK, here’s the straight dirt, in order of importance: 1.  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Hornitos or Herrardura Tequila.  Buy in Aztec or Bloomfield or Albuquerque.  I have some tequila.  Of course you can rely on me for the "cheapest liquor" info. 2.  Steve, I’m ready.  We can fish another stream on the way up and drive into Navajo Dam late Friday night.  I’m planning on driving back to albuquerque late tuesday after fishing.  We can also wait for dan’l and his rental car but that may prevent fishing friday. 3.  I’ll make sure everyone has directions to the river.  Directions from just about anywhere are on the ifly4trout.com website. 4.  Dan’l, maybe you can jump into Bob’s room for the nights you’re there.  He’s got one booked at rizuto’s – http://www.rizutos.com – and that way we’ll already have arrangements made for you.  Bob, in case you’re wondering, Dan’l was voted world’s nicest person at the western clave. 5.  There are flyshops galore at the river, and Rizuto’s is a flyshop also.  Abe’s is across the road.  Float n Fish, which i’ve designated ROFF’s "official" flyshop because of their friendliness and dry fly prowess, is about 300 yards away from rizutos.  They are also psyched to have this group coming to the river, they’ve heard about you guys : 6.  Keep tabs on http://www.ifly4trout.com – especially the reports from resolution guide service.  All of the "tips of the month" and FAQs are helpful also and reading them in advance will get you to the fish quicker. 7.  I’m involved in a remodel and simultaneous move but i’m still fifty flies into my goal of tying at least 200 flies for everyone’s use.  And they *are* a little slicker than those i tied for the raffle. I am really psyched for this deal.  If we can get warren down here that would just top it off completely, I really think he’d like a few days on such a different river. Whatever I can do to make it easier for any of you, I’ll do.  Just let me know. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

Danl, I’ll be at Rizutto’s from the afternoon of the 7th thru the morning of the 12th. Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Bruiser, et al, What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out. Danl

Response:

Dan’l writes: What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out.

   Bob Skinner and I will be leaving early Fri morning, with about 8 hours driving time we should be there by cocktail hour.

Response:

<snipped Danl, You can buy beer in Navajo Dam, just not any hard liquor on Sunday. The prices are pretty expensive too.  I would pick up something in Farmington. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

If folks want to consider me an asshole

for saying so, that’s fine by me.< Hmmm.  Asshole’s a pretty strong word.   I prefer to think of you as a Frightened Illini.   Or is that Frightning Illini?  Or Illinoi*s*ian?   (Accent on the "s" of course.)  <g

Response:

Chances are, work will shut me down on this one, but God hates a coward so I’m buying airfare as if I was going. Plan on flying into AlbertQQ on Friday and slinking home on Tuesday AM.

I’ll be arriving on Friday morning, at which time Bruiser has pledged (or at least hinted) that he’ll duck out of work, pick me up at the airport, and go fishing. Hope to see you then, Dan’l. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Dan’l writes: What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out.

I’ll be flying into AlbertQ on Sat. afternoon and visiting with friends until Sunday a.m.  I’lll rent a truck or car and drive to Rizuto’s.  I need directions, btw, Bruiser. Hope to be there about noon time on Sunday, so hope you dudes will leave directions on where to meet you on the river.  Looking forward to it.  However, I doubt my eyes will survive tying these #22 and 24 hooks! I fly back to Taxachusetts on Wednesday afternoon. Dave L.

Response:

… PS    When I a was much younger person, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a veterinarian who had both arms, up to the elbows, inside a cow helping to deliver her breeched calf. Hot bovine body fluids were splattering both of us from multiple orifices while we stood and knelt in a well used barn on a hot summer day. Until I read the posts of the last weeks, that experience was my baseline on the disgust-o-meter. Now I have a new baseline. The cow and the vet were doing the best they could under the circumstances. The end justified the means. I won’t accept that argument here.

Paraphrasing Harry Truman who in response to "Give ‘em hell, Harry", said I’ll tell the truth and they’ll think I’m givin’ ‘em hell. A little bit of word play on a Usenet newsgroup can in no way be compared to the ugliness of institutional bigotry and casual racism. If folks want to consider me an asshole for saying so, that’s fine by me. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’ll be arriving on Friday morning, at which time Bruiser has pledged (or at least hinted) that he’ll duck out of work, pick me up at the airport, and go fishing. Hope to see you then, Dan’l.

 Steve, I’m sposta arrive about 2:15PM. I’m gonna rent an infernal combustion engine powered contraption of some sort (SUV). If Bruce can’t make it, you’re welcome to ride up to Navajo Dam with me. How much they charging you to put Simon and Heather in first class with Arlo? Bruce, is Rizzuto’s the place to be? Can I buy beer (not pale yellow belch water) in Navaho Dam or do I need to take care of this in Albertqq? Danl

Response:

Hey Bruiser, et al, What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out. Chances are, work will shut me down on this one, but God hates a coward so I’m buying airfare as if I was going. Plan on flying into AlbertQQ on Friday and slinking home on Tuesday AM. Danl PS    When I a was much younger person, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a veterinarian who had both arms, up to the elbows, inside a cow helping to deliver her breeched calf. Hot bovine body fluids were splattering both of us from multiple orifices while we stood and knelt in a well used barn on a hot summer day. Until I read the posts of the last weeks, that experience was my baseline on the disgust-o-meter. Now I have a new baseline. The cow and the vet were doing the best they could under the circumstances. The end justified the means. I won’t accept that argument here.

Response:

Question:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."

What a boob.   On the one hand, I don’t understand what is objectionable about it that leads to the i.c. basis.   I mean, the guy wore it volutarily and produced evidence "in plain sight".   No way even a competent defense attorney could have anticipated this.   (Apparently I didn’t learn much from the OJ trial.) OTOH, who’s to say he didn’t buy the shirt at Goodwill or find it in a dumpster. Can’t see how having the shirt months after the crime is much evidence (other than circumstantial) of anything.   If the police had found it in his posession the night of the crime, that’s one thing, but weeks or months later its trail is pretty stale IMHO. Also can’t swallow the "waste of tax dollars" assertion.   In a climate where so many are vocal about the government taking away our rights, isn’t it good to see a case where the government is protecting them?   Still, what a boob. Joe F.

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, ___that he wore on the video___, robbing the store, and his

counsel’s failure to object was "i.c." What a boob.   On the one hand, I don’t understand what is objectionable about it that leads to the i.c. basis.   I mean, the guy wore it volutarily and produced evidence "in plain sight".   No way even a competent defense attorney could have anticipated this.   (Apparently I didn’t learn much from the OJ trial.)

One of my points, in general. OTOH, who’s to say he didn’t buy the shirt at Goodwill or find it in a dumpster. Can’t see how having the shirt months after the crime is much evidence (other than circumstantial) of anything.   If the police had found it in his posession the night of the crime, that’s one thing, but weeks or months later its trail is pretty stale IMHO.

Pretty unlucky find, I’d say:  A guy who looks exactly like the accused dumping off the shirt, and our hapless accused being unlucky enough to buy/find it.  From what I’ve heard, this is one of those, "I’m not saying I didn’t do it, I did it, I’m just saying it wasn’t ‘fair’." Plus, the police didn’t find it, he produced it.  What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him? Also can’t swallow the "waste of tax dollars" assertion.   In a climate where so many are vocal about the government taking away our rights, isn’t it good to see a case where the government is protecting them?   Still, what a boob.

No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…) TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

Response:

(snip)  Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie…

I don’t think bitch slapping at a Mensa meeting is a crime at all, Charlie. As to the case in question, I must cast my lot with the appeals court that reversed the conviction.  Whether it was intentional or unintentional, craftiness or stupidity, the essence of our system is that a trial in which a person’s liberty or life is at stake should be as fair as possible.  Hell, I think even the trial judge could have properly corrected this situation before it became a problem.  Someone mentioned this in a previous post, but in my mind most states are penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to assuring that all criminal defendants have competent counsel and related support for a defense.  Because it’s politically unpopular to provide such for indigent defendants, the resources are not allocated in the first instance; then, when the conviction is reversed the taxpayer pays all over again. Mark Faulkner

Response:

(snip)  Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie… I don’t think bitch slapping at a Mensa meeting is a crime at all, Charlie.

OK, so that part is simple reflex, but… As to the case in question, I must cast my lot with the appeals court that reversed the conviction.  Whether it was intentional or unintentional, craftiness or stupidity, the essence of our system is that a trial in which a person’s liberty or life is at stake should be as fair as possible.  Hell, I think even the trial judge could have properly corrected this situation before it became a problem.  Someone mentioned this in a previous post, but in my mind most states are penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to assuring that all criminal defendants have competent counsel and related support for a defense.  Because it’s politically unpopular to provide such for indigent defendants, the resources are not allocated in the first instance; then, when the conviction is reversed the taxpayer pays all over again.

What?  Do you truly believe this?  Why is it encumbering to the people of Texas to defend such a person?   While I believe in the 5th Amendment, what possible defense is there against a guilty person’s own stupidity?  The goal of the system is (or at least should be) the truth, and we have it, and the defendant willingly and openly provided evidence.  The adversarial system wasn’t compromised, no abuse took place, there is nothing to correct.  What exactly wasn’t "fair"?   CDAs argue when the accused is in jailwear, so he got to wear his own stuff. Seemingly, under this theory, testimony regarding the fact the gun was found at his home should be disallowed because his counsel was too ineffective to tell him to get rid of it. R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mark Faulkner

Response:

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here……

Our esteemed roffian lwayers would *never* make such an egregious error, maybe in their choice of fly or scotch perhaps, but never in a court room. Peter (sucking up big time)

Response:

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here…… Our esteemed roffian lwayers would *never* make such an egregious error, maybe in their choice of fly or scotch perhaps, but never in a court room. Peter (sucking up big time)

You misspelled "laywayers"… <G R

Response:

Our esteemed roffian lwayers

waylers, maybe? — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him? LOL.   YEAH! That’s it! No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…) Well, I gotta think he was convicted on a lot more than this dumb shirt.   His picture on the camera & I assume the eyewitness testimony of the clerk. Possibly fingerprints or other physical evidence.   However, your points above seem a circular argument.   He’s guilty because he has the shirt, and the shirt shouldn’t matter because he’s guilty anyway.   Frankly the shirt sounds like a red herring.   If counsel was otherwise competent and the evidence was otherwise conclusive, it does seem a waste of resources; but the rights of the accused are paramount in our system (that’s why Wayno can afford a T&T or two).   I like it that way in general, even when a specific case makes it difficult to remember.

I’m not sure what you mean by red herring, but if you mean it is simply a guilty man’s way of taking another bite, I agree.  To me, it is like someone who confesses (uncoerced), and then tries to "legal" their way out of it.  Further, I think the rights of the accused are important, but this isn’t protecting his rights against or in an adversarial system, perfect or imperfect.  It isn’t even "self-incrimination" in the 5th Amendment sense.  This is excusing his own stupidity: he’s guilty, but he’s stupid, and his lawyer _may_ be ineffective, but let’s start over with "better" counsel.  The DA and cops didn’t dress him, trick him into wearing it, plant it on him, or anything else. R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

Response:

Our esteemed roffian lwayers waylers, maybe? — Charlie…

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud. Peter

Response:

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud.

fro? <g — Charlie…

Response:

don’t I get any points fro getting ‘egregious’ right? jeez, this is a tough croud. fro? <g — Charlie…

For the "stuck in the seventies" lwayers… <G R

Response:

[snip] This is excusing his own stupidity: he’s guilty, but he’s stupid, and his lawyer _may_ be ineffective, but let’s start over with "better" counsel.  The DA and cops didn’t dress him, trick him into wearing it, plant it on him, or anything else.

I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure you can carry ‘presumed innocence’ too far. Besides, his lawyer probably *should* have told him how to dress as part of his job in this case, the guy wasn’t arrested for bitch slapping someone at a Mensa meeting, after all. — Charlie…

Response:

Peter Charles: I don’t know what our angling lawyers may think of this idea, but perhaps it would be appropriate in cases where a gross error by an officer of the court resulted in a costly delay or mistrial, that officer had to personally foot the bill for at least a portion of the court costs.  Might make some of the inattentive sit up and pay attention. Peter

Shoot, Peter.  Somehow I can not see our esteemed roffian lawyers fishing with K-Mart blue light specials!  It is blaspheme, I tell ya…….  <g Louie, who don’t need to stinkin’ lawy…..errrrr.   Don’t wanna burn bridges here……

Response:

What’s he going to say, Mark Furrmann(sp?) dressed him?

LOL.   YEAH! That’s it! No, this is a waste.  He was a) stupid enough to rob a store at gunpoint, for money, b) stupid enough to prove himself guilty (or is that guilty enough to prove himself stupid? – either way…)

Well, I gotta think he was convicted on a lot more than this dumb shirt.   His picture on the camera & I assume the eyewitness testimony of the clerk. Possibly fingerprints or other physical evidence.   However, your points above seem a circular argument.   He’s guilty because he has the shirt, and the shirt shouldn’t matter because he’s guilty anyway.   Frankly the shirt sounds like a red herring.   If counsel was otherwise competent and the evidence was otherwise conclusive, it does seem a waste of resources; but the rights of the accused are paramount in our system (that’s why Wayno can afford a T&T or two).   I like it that way in general, even when a specific case makes it difficult to remember. Joe F.

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."  Well, maybe, but two things come to mind:  Shouldn’t the obvious guilt matter?  Punish the attorney, perhaps, but how effectively _can_ one defend such a person?  And, this is exactly the ridiculousness in the system that gets "the average Joe and Jane" so upset.  Unless the attorney dressed this guy, our tax dollars get to pay for another trial for a guilty man. R

Response:

The 4th Court of Crim Appeals, SA,  has ordered a new trial on the grounds of "ineffective counsel."  It seems the defendant, accused of robbing a C-store, wore the same distinct shirt, with a picture of his dog, to voir dire, that he wore on the video, robbing the store, and his counsel’s failure to object was "i.c."  Well, maybe, but two things come to mind:  Shouldn’t the obvious guilt matter?  Punish the attorney, perhaps, but how effectively _can_ one defend such a person?  And, this is exactly the ridiculousness in the system that gets "the average Joe and Jane" so upset.  Unless the attorney dressed this guy, our tax dollars get to pay for another trial for a guilty man. R

True, it is very annoying to think of the wasted dollars and time involved but given the number of high profile cases being overturned by DNA evidence, (especially north of the border) where the quality of counsel was at best questionable, I think this is the price we have to pay to enshrine the concept in law. I don’t know what our angling lawyers may think of this idea, but perhaps it would be appropriate in cases where a gross error by an officer of the court resulted in a costly delay or mistrial, that officer had to personally foot the bill for at least a portion of the court costs.  Might make some of the inattentive sit up and pay attention. Peter

Response:

Question:

I just signed up for the three day class with Outdoors, Inc. in St. Louis. Is it worth the $350? Bob

Response:

Robert D. Sheppard writes: I just signed up for the three day class with Outdoors, Inc. in St. Louis. Is it worth the $350? Bob

If you are a beginner, yes. Coming back after a long hiatus, yes. Been ffing for a year, maybe. Been ffing for a few years, no. Dave LaCourse

Response:

depends…is that the one that includes budweiser? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just signed up for the three day class with Outdoors, Inc. in St. Louis. Is it worth the $350? Bob

Response:

Question:

I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  

Might not be so bad.  The guy is providing a boat and you will get to cover a lot of water.  You can come back on your own later and fish the spots that appeal to you (unless of course access is limited). Mu

Response:

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music!

I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52. Vern

Response:

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52.

I knew you weren’t referring to the band, Vern ;^)

Response:

 In fact, you can have seperate quarters away from the likes of Fortenberry, Waldo, Tripper, Wayno, and Jeffy Miller.  These types will corrupt you.

        you eat one little… wayno

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I did not know they had been shot ! TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52. Vern

Response:

Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure.

I grew up in Wichita watching those bad boys fly around at Boeing and McConnell (my dad worked on them at Boeing). Awesome plane. — Charlie…

Response:

Frank Church writes: Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure.

Frank, I used to live within shouting distance of Westover AFB.  I can remember the B-47s taking off and landing.  But then came those bigger BUFs, the B-52 Speaking of droopy wings — the U-2 wasn’t exactly a stubby winged aircraft. One scared the hell out of me in Japan, landing without power, gliding about 100 feet off the ground, as I walked to work.  All I saw was a giant shadow whisking over me.  It was going into Atsugi Naval Air Station on the other side of the rice paddies. OBROFF:  There is probably still room for the Maine Clave next September. Great fishing, great food, great friends.  Consider it.  Fourteen attending so far. Dave L.

Response:

I grew up in Wichita watching those bad boys fly around at Boeing and McConnell (my dad worked on them at Boeing). Awesome plane.

B-52’s flew in and out of Hanscom Field in the town I grew up in, to get outfitted with the latest black boxes that the Charles Stark Draper and Mitre Labs folks cooked up over there. Flight path to the only runway that’d take those big mf’s went right over our house, but that wasn’t close enough for me and my friends, so we’d ride our bikes out to the perimeter fence at the end of the safety zone and watch them big bastids swoop in and out. Awesome. It’s a miracle I can still hear anything… /daytripper

Response:

of the safety zone and watch them big bastids swoop in and out. Awesome.

I saw one take off back in the 70s that must have been using water injectors and the whole deal; I don’t know what his angle of climb was but I was looking for the CONELRAD station on my dial<g. — Charlie…

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Awesome.

"…fryin’ chickens in the barnyard!" General "Buck" Turgidson

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<Snipped tribute to B-52’s & U-2’s.

Dave Years ago I used to work in the Oklahoma Panhandle which is pretty sparsely populated.  Unknown to me was the fact that there was a flyway for low altitude bombing runs that ran from Clayton, NM to somewhere in western OK.  I was driving down some dirt road trying to find a farmhouse when about 10 B-52’s flew over about 1,000 feet or less off the ground and at full bore.  These guys came one right after the other and just after you lost your  hearing , you could still feel to car and ground vibrate.  The F-111’s that came after them sounded like learjets.  This was when I started carrying toilet paper in my car.  You never know. DP

Response:

I did not know they had been shot !

The planes? They were shot _at_, but they got out unscathed. Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

 I was driving down some dirt road trying to find a farmhouse when about 10 B-52’s flew over about 1,000 feet or less off the ground and at full bore.  

The early B52’s had the tail gunner actually in the tail. When they modified the plane for low altitude operations they had to move the position to the flight deck after they almost killed one or two in test flights. — Charlie…

Response:

Yesterday I was searching the Internet for a guide in Ennis, Montana for the western conclave.  I thought it would be fun to pay for a day with a guide to familiarize me with the area before doing it alone.  I couldn’t find any in the Ennis area.  Yea, a few in Montana just not in the Ennis area. While in the middle of searching and getting discouraged the man in the brown truck knocked on my door. Remember the fly rod that had the tip snapped off in the car door?  Some suggested I contact the company and see if they would replace it.  I followed your suggestion and sent it off.  The UPS man brought it back yesterday.  Well, I thought he brought it back.  However, when I opened the box it was a completely different rod.  It was a nice and new rod without the river slime on the cork handle.  Cool! The UPS man asked me what it was and I told him the story.  I also told him that I’m going to Montana in July for a fly-fishing conclave.  I also told him that I was searching the Internet for a guide for a guide but couldn’t find one. He replied, "I don’t know what part of Montana your going.  But, if it’s near Ennis, my father in-law is a guide." I almost started laughing.  "Ennis!  That’s where were going," I said. He then informed me that his father in-law is currently in Las Vegas on vacation. What are the odds? To make a long story a little shorter, I talked to his father in-law.  His name is Bob Cleverley.  He’s currently retired but used to be a HS football coach.  He’s been a guide on the Madison River for over 15 years.  I think he said 17 years but not certain.  He has owned a fly shop in the past. However, running the shop, his guide service, and teaching at the local HS was to much for him so he got rid of the fly shop.  Now he’s retired.  How nice for him. Now back to the guide service, it’s a flat fee of $275 which includes transportation, a full day of fly-fishing, over 20 miles floating on the Madison in a 17 foot fiberglass drift-boat, food for the day, and all the local information a local lifetime fly-fisherman can provide.  The price is a flat fee per boat regardless of how many go.  However, only two fly-fisherman per boat.  He has three boats.  He also has other friends that provide guide service. I was hoping another ROFFian could split the price with me.  What I was thinking $150 each.  That would pay for the $275 fee and a $25 tip.  If the fishing is good I could tip him even more. I believe the western conclave is scheduled for July 21-31 in spite George’s desire for it to be around the 4th of July.  I will be taking 9 days off work.  Although, I’m driving and allowing 2 days up and 2 days back.  I have 2 options for my days off, the July18-26 or the July 25- Aug. 2.  That translates into my conclave days either July 21-24 or July 27-31.  I have to make that decision on the day my fly-fishing partner can take the guide service. Here it is, either a guide service on July 21 or July 27.  If you are interested on sharing a trip with me post it or send me an e-mail. Additionally, let me know what day is best for you.  I will schedule the trip.  I don’t have to put a deposit down at this point.  However, after the first of July if I need to cancel there is a $100 cancellation fee. Again, Bob Cleverley has three boats and can get more if needed.  The more ROFFians the better. Vern

Response:

Vern writes:

(lil snip) Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?  Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he?

Vern, not to worry.  At an conclave, you can do just about as you please.  The organizers will have scouted out places to fish and will direct you to such places and perhaps even guide you seperately. There will probably be folks at the Western Clave who have fished those waters and they will help Warren in fishing assignments and guiding.  The main thing of any clave is to have fun fishing with buddies/friends, regardless how you met them.  The internet claves I have attended so far have been filled with juvenile antics, much joking, swearing, hard-assing, by a bunch of educated serious men on their way to go fly fishing. Stories about one’s bvds and night fishing etc. are bound to occur.  There will be more stories from the Western Clave and the Spring Fling for that matter. No one is forcing you to drink or smoke or stay up late. In fact, you can have seperate quarters away from the likes of Fortenberry, Waldo, Tripper, Wayno, and Jeffy Miller.  These types will corrupt you.  You could  hang around with Charlie Choc – go to bed early, wake up late, go fishing.  <g As I understand it, you would like to get to Ennis a day or so early and "scout" the place out, possibly even hire a guide for a day.  Arriving early and checking things out is ok, but I am sure Warren and the rest of the western roffians would be more than willing to help. Main thought here, Vern, is:  don’t worry about it.  You will be with friends. They may hard-ass ya, and joke with ya, but they love ya and will make sure you have a great time. I hope to fish with you.  I will have my grand-sons (15 and 16) with me. Dave L.

Response:

Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?

Given your opening paragraph, that’d be redundant. You nailed it! Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he?

There should be at least a few people that have fished that area to allow the group to break up into smaller units. Nobody’s gonna want to fish the Madison for the entire duration – there are many other rivers to fish within 2 or 3 hours of Ennis. I should mention that I gave up alcohol and cigars around 3 to 4 years ago. I miss them at times, but I made a commitment and I can’t afford to break it.  If I do, I don’t think I could stop again.  I think I miss the cigars more than I do the B-52s, especially at the stream.

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! So, whatever description you provide, there’s no need to tempt me with explanations of liquid refreshment.

Normally I’d torture you by noting that you’re surely doomed to a week of depravity, moral turpitude, and Xtreme Liver Abuse. However, I’ll go easy on you and note that Le Duc Du Chocolate has escaped unscathed – repeatedly – with his facilities intact and his morals unmolested. Despite repeated attempts to torpedo same. I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  I don’t know what to expect.  If others that have fished the Madison would be kind enough to describe what kind of river it is, I would be much appreciated.

The upper reaches – assuming the river below the Hebgen Lake hasn’t changed much – is a short set of small braids winding through the pucker brush. Short rod fishing works best there. These collect into a modest flow for about a mile if memory serves, then there’s a broad stretch (lake-ish) a few miles long – not really fishable on foot iirc – until you get below Rock Creek. Then you have about 10 miles of fishable water down to Kirby Ranch. From there down to Varney (about 25 miles I think) and beyond the river becomes broader and more boisterous – depending on how much water is coming down through a whole host of creeks – and the best (or at least easiest) fishing is from a drift boat. I’ve done the stretch from Kirby Ranch to the Varney bridge a few times in my life and caught some prodigiously large trout and white fish. There were lots of places to stop the boat and get out and wade gravel bars and cast to wonderful holes. The biggest trout I’ve ever hooked and lost was in the middle of that stretch. There was good fishing on foot along a lot of the river the last time I was out there – but that was before people started building goddamned houses along the banks and posting it, and of course the whirling disease has probably changed what’s in the river – so I’ll have to let others bring me up to date. But again, that’s just one river – and there are a handful of famous streams within 3 hours or so of Ennis. If this post doesn’t make much sense, it’s because I’m falling asleep after a long day.  It’s now 12:30 in Las Vegas.  So, please forgive any errors.

Wimp! It’s now 5:54 in Massachusetts and I’ve been up all night getting a newsletter published. Forget sleepin’ – it’d only make me feel even worse – so it’s direct-injected caffeine for me today! /daytripper (I’m getting too old for this shit!)

Response:

speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren?

He’s doing fine. I got an email from him a few days ago. Everything is on track for the Western Clave. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

You don’t need to pay hard-earned money for guide, Vern, Warren’s the guide. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?  Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he? I should mention that I gave up alcohol and cigars around 3 to 4 years ago. I miss them at times, but I made a commitment and I can’t afford to break it.  If I do, I don’t think I could stop again.  I think I miss the cigars more than I do the B-52s, especially at the stream.  So, whatever description you provide, there’s no need to tempt me with explanations of liquid refreshment. I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  I don’t know what to expect.  If others that have fished the Madison would be kind enough to describe what kind of river it is, I would be much appreciated. If this post doesn’t make much sense, it’s because I’m falling asleep after a long day.  It’s now 12:30 in Las Vegas.  So, please forgive any errors. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t need to pay hard-earned money for guide, Vern, Warren’s the guide. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Probably sick of George dominating the news group. Big Dale

Response:

Probably sick of George dominating the news group. Big Dale

Big D, Have you been getting any ‘gills this winter? There’s a nice lake up here that has bass and gills in it. It also has yours and my name on it one afternoon in May. Stay loose big guy, Walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com For Book & Print Auctions: http://www.amazon.com/seller/mariebooks Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search/dhome.html?id=33… P.O. Box 5112, Banner Elk, NC 28604

Response:

speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

According to Dave L. he’s been busy with hunting and his work. Darin

Response:

speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Darin Minor writes: speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway According to Dave L. he’s been busy with hunting and his work. Darin

Yeah, but that was about two weeks ago that I heard from him.   Dave L.

Response:

Question:

Ken, Go to Mariott’s in Fullerton, on Orangethorpe, and have them brief you on Bear Creek. I lived in Anaheim two years ago and fished there a number of times after being briefed.  It was the only place I found where you could be away from the crowds of Southern CA and catch some good fish in some beautiful surroundings. Small browns, 10 to 12 inches, in a small stream setting.  I used a 3 wt outfit and had a ball.  Elk hair caddis flies were the ticket then. Good luck! Tom

Response:

Ken, The stream that drains the lake at Big Bear has trout in it, but it is a rough one to fish.  It is nothing like Hot Creek.   — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR ECONOMY WADING BOOTS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Hi All:          Does anyone know if there are any stream’s or creek’s that can be fished near Arrowhead or Bigbear? I live in SO CAL and just started fly fishing this April when I went to Bishop for opening day.Boy am I hooked I had a great time at Hot Creek! Anyway I want to find a place local to fish and learn more. Any advice?                        Thanks                                  Ken

Response:

 Hi All:          Does anyone know if there are any stream’s or creek’s that can be fished near Arrowhead or Bigbear? I live in SO CAL and just started fly fishing this April when I went to Bishop for opening day.Boy am I hooked I had a great time at Hot Creek! Anyway I want to find a place local to fish and learn more. Any advice?                        Thanks                                  Ken

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Question:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule.

You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

Response:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10!

Great! But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages.

Ummm, you need to check out Mountain Gear more often.  Two days from now, saturday the 16th, Mad River is having a demo days on the Spokane river in conjunction with Mountain Gear.  M.G. also bring a lot of kayaks. Additionally, M.G. makes a weekly trip to the river to demo their boats…it must be tough being an employee there.  Get their schedule. Call them if you want a particular boat brought for you to try.  We are less than an hour from you; how have you missed this?

Response:

Well, I got home from Stanley to see my new Jive 8-10 sitting in my shop. Haven’t paddled it, but it looks like a great boat for a big person.  Similar to the Hammer (and about as roomy), similar kind of forward rocker, but more balanced bow and stern volume.  Doesn’t look like a squirter, but I’ll take it out and get back to folks. Thanks for all the input– though I ended up doing what I did, reading about all the different boats helped.  Looks like the 8-10 will be good for other big folks, and we can start having the fun without the misery that smaller folks have been having in some of the cooler boats. DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week. Chuck You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

– Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project 1031 Spring Valley Rd. Troy, ID 83871 208-835-2999 (Voice and FAX) Call before sending FAX To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

Response:

<<DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week.  Chuck New boats, before you paddle them, are just like the next generation of computer operating systems:  they will solve ALL the problems with what you are using now.  That is, until you actually start using them. -Ray

Response:

    After fifteen years of  K-1 white-water paddling, I’ve gone over…..Gone over to the Dark Side.  To please the Lady, the Light and Love of my life (but…hey that’s another thread) I took an Orvis fly-fishing course this weekend. There I was… standing STILL in a river that I have paddled many times. I couldn’t help but think about my boating-self sliding by my new found fishing-self and how both of us felt. I (boating) have always tried to be silent and circumspect when passing anglers. Courtesy and etiquette (yet another thread?) seem to demand nothing less. Tis a lesson to be learned tho…. to walk a mile in another man’s uh….hip boots.  Fishing for trout is as incredible complex as learning linked cartwheels and mystery moves. And, I found out this weekend, as addictive. It came as a small revelation when our instructor informed us that trout can be spooked by the shadow of a fly-line passing overhead. Made me wonder what the shadow of a nine foot boat must do. I asked our instructor what he thought of  kayakers. I was expecting a diatribe but he turned to me and said, "Sure looks like fun…. and most of um try to be real quiet, too."  Maybe there is hope for us yet!

Response:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule. But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages. We floated Lolo Ck., a classic Class IV-V run, 18 miles, one hour from my house, last weekend.  There was only one other party on the river– another group of friends (gloat). Gotta do the enviro thing this weekend (keep those rivers running free with actual trees next to them), but hopefully, I’ll be up on that big ole Lochsa wave, 360-ing away next week!  Stay tuned. Chuck — Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

Response:

Question:

I am new to fly tying and am looking for inexpensive grizzly saddle hackle for saltwater flies. If you know of a great mail-order house or local store that is worth checking out prices, email me or post. Thanks.

Hi rocdoc Dan Baileys has some fairly good strung saddle hackle that should work for you. Just call them at 800-356-4052 for a catalog or to order. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

Almost every flyshop (local or mail order) will have inexpensive hackle of all types. Yes, they are great for saltwater and other flies where size and stiffness are not critical. After some experience with that, high quality hackle makes good sense if the flies you are tying demand it. Don’t forget, ask your fly shop employees for help! They’ve been there too.

Response:

I am new to fly tying and am looking for inexpensive grizzly saddle hackle for saltwater flies. If you know of a great mail-order house or local store that is worth checking out prices, email me or post. Thanks.

Response:

Question:

Before the present day method of line nomenclature (e.g. WT5, DT6…etc..) there was a different way to describe line weights and types. Does anyone have details on the old system? I run across old lines and rods and would like to know exactly what I am looking at.

Response:

Bruce Richards from Scientific Anglers has written a short book on Modern Fly Lines as part of Lefty Kreh’s Little Library of Fly Fishing.  It has a biref section (pp. 32-37) on standardization of fly line weights, including a translation table. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Before the present day method of line nomenclature (e.g. WT5, DT6…etc..) there was a different way to describe line weights and types. Does anyone have details on the old system? I run across old lines and rods and would like to know exactly what I am looking at.

Response:

Try McClaines Fishing Encyclopedia, I think he has a run down on this subject. Phil

Response:

Question:

hmmmmm an angleworm… does that work better that a dry fly !!!!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,

I would be inclined to agree too, except that I like to catch fish :^) Surf fishing is the most aesthetic way to catch surf species, but the pier has it beat all to hell for results.  Plus, I always get leery of the us vs them attitude implicit in the excerpt abobe; as though one kind of fishing is better than another, or one kind of fisherman is better than another.    The line beginning with "There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on it’s followers." discounts too easily the fly fisherman on his stream chasing the mighty salmon or trout,  or the river smallmouth wader casting his jigs and plugs for that one bronzeback of a lifetime, or any of the other scenarios that we pick up over a lifetime of fishing.   I have glided across a remote canadian lake at sunset, trolling for lake trout against a background of tall pines and the calls of loons.   Is that any ‘better’ than battling your first big pike, or straining against a slammer blue in the Carolina surf, or seeing an irridescent dolphin (mahi-mahi) leap out of an azure ocean as it tries to shake your hook?     Don’t get too hung up on that beach,  you can miss a lot of great fishing, and miss meeting some good people too. I can agree with the premise though, it is exhilirating to be standing on a beach on a crisp fall morning, with a rising tide, and casting plugs or bucktails for speckled trout in the trough.  Or wading the trough in the summer, casting a strip of squid for a fat summer flounder.  Or casting spoons, bucktails, or even bare hooks with a strip of cloth for rampaging bluefish as they churn the water to a bloody froth.   The only problem is the dry periods between bites, the inability to get to the fish that are beyond the next bar, and having to haul all your stuff onto the beach. Terry —    DoD# 541                           |  no matter how good it looks."                                         |         ‘Poison’ Ivy Rorschach  

Response:

     In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,      Mark Rosen

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