Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. —

Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?) Regards, Mike.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis.   Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun.   The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

If it’s not one damn thing, it’s something else. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

Our snowpack is a whopping 293% and the rivers are running at normal levels (16,300 cfs) on the lower Clark Fork. Heading up to Rock Creek with the Fam on Thursday. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks.

Will do.  I still have your fly from one of the swaps set aside as my example pattern. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this.

Same here.  Not sure how much rain we received total, but it rained most of the weekend and most of yesterday too.  We had snow at times, but it didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though.   Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too.

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Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?)

I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water.   Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend.   Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael. It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know.

Thanks Gary,  yes indeed I would quite like to see the pikkies, so please email them to me.  From what you say it seems like the english Mayfly is similar to the american Green Drake. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help! Best regards, Gary

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

The Western Green Drake is Drunella grandis or Drunella doddsi. The duns are pretty much an olive color all over. They emerge in the middle of the day, and they darken in color after emergence. The cool thing about the Green Drakes, from a flyfisherman’s point of view, is that the duns spend a long time on the surface, and there are lots of cripples. The mating flights and the spinner falls occur very late and into the night. These are big mayflies, but not nearly as big as the Brown Drake. The Big Wood River in Idaho has a superb Green Drake hatch in June. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Many apologies for my making myself unclear yet again.  What I really mean is not the natural flies that you haven’t seen, but the artificials that your friend showed you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help!

Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

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Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know. Best, Gary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.

Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

I have only fished into the night a few times when I was a kid.  The river in light is a wonderous place,  but for a 10 year old,  the darkness of night makes the water kind of creepy.   In ordinary days out fishing these days,  I have to be home by a reasonable hour  (wife & all that…) and so I’ll probably not get much opportunities for night / evening fishing ~ besides, 21 years later,  I still remember how creepy the river became in darkening light PS,  I had an excellent day’s fishing on my favourite stretch today.  The weather was excellent  (overcast, no wind and no rain but fairly warm) and there was a lot  of activity taking place.  The E. danica Mayfly spinners were dancing around laying their eggs.  I was amazed at how many there were, considering the carnage that was wrought upon the duns.  Anyhow,  I had a number of pheasant tail dryflies that I had already chosen to use for the day.  The fly is a simple creation of  3 PT fibres for the tail & body,  and a ginger cock hackle wound fairly bushy.  I have a streamlined variant with less hackle to be used in the really tricky spots where I have to cast under overhanging branches,  but that is not a durable floater for general fishing.  I caught about 20 fish at an average of about 3/4 lb each fish and quite a few indeed over the pound mark ~ 1 to be cooked on the smoker tomorrow.  This season has seen a beefing up of the fish stock and I’m sure that the fish are bigger  than that that I have become used to over the 6 years that I have fished this stream.  I saw an absolute clonker leap several feet out of the water, it looked good for 2 pounds.  However by the time that I reached this fish, the river went strange and my fly had become out of vogue ~ nothing went for my fly at all! Half an hour earlier I had just finished a period of about 3 hours whereby most fish that I covered rose to my fly.  I had been very pleased with the fly’s performance,  just as I had expected it to do since it is a good choice for this time of the year  (and it is easy to tie up too).  As I worked my way slowly towards the area where I saw the big fish rise,  I encountered some smaller fish bulging.  I wanted to turn these fish downstream of me without spooking the big trout, and so aimed to hook up as many of these fish as I could and bring them downstream and then release the tension in the line so that the hook falls out (no barbs) and releases the fish.  This is a good method of clearing a shallow section of water so that the angler may proceed slightly further upstream to a target fish. I started this plan,  but to no avail!  The fish totally stopped taking my fly,  and by the time I reached the area where the big one had been rising I did not have a single rise, despite a few fly changes, including a PT nymph. I have to admit defeat on this pool / glide, as I couldn’t entice a thing despite seeing many rises.  I like this pool as it a challenging but beautiful stretch of water some 50 yards long with many fish. Cheers for now, Michael.

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From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass!

Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? The flight of a newly hatched Mayfly E. danica dun is quite a sight indeed. The creatures fly relatively slowly with rapid whirring of the wings and with the tail more or less pointing towards the water.  It takes them a bit of time to get the momentum up and during this time they are quite prone to aerial assults by the trout! I thoroughly recommend your seeing a drake hatch as it is like a festival on the stream.  The trout really go crazy and severely reveal their presence with savage swirls / splashes / leaps and so on.  On the rivers that I fish that have the E. danica,  it seems like the hatching of this burrowing nymph is the trout’s primary seasonal harvest, and the trouts’ indulgence is such that caution is temporarily thrown to the wind. After the E. danica hatch is over the river quietens down progressively through the months June July & August.  In late August the stream can be very quiet indeed,  and only the nymph seems to be successful in enticing fish to participate in my days’ operations.  During September,  things liven up a little, but by the end of the month it becomes close season,  with the cold winter days soon to come. I have come to believe that the hatching out of the E. danica is more or less the trouts’ raison d’etre, as it effectively forms the peak of the trouts’ feeding activities. [Just like for me,  catching trout on a beautiful stream is my raison d'etre!!!!] Without the E. danica, the trout hold station and help themselves only to the morcels that pass by, with the odd excursion to snatch a sedge; little energy is expended on such table scraps.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout , and the yearlings / 2 year olds all return to their regular (non-danica) places.  The big trout then all disappear back to their lies in various alder roots at the heads of runs & pools and become somewhat more  difficult to catch until the next danica hatch that is…. In England,  the month of May is the dryfly month, as that is when the upwinged flies start to hatch out in earnest.  The last 2 weeks in May and the first week of June are really busy days with the dryfly and it is great fun just to be there: fishing and catching fish is merely the icing on the cake.  That being said,  I also like the "dogdays" of late summer too, as exploration work with the nymph is just as much fun as fishing the dryfly, and more demanding of the angler’s concentration and skills etc. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout

My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night. Willi

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Snip. Thanks. Very well-written and a useful read.

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[a very informative snip] These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Willi, just found this little gem of a post. It seems like you’re describing the upper Grand, just below Belwood dam – long stretches of medium-slow to slow water broken by riffles and chutes.  During hatches and off-colour water, these slow areas can be full of fish but in clear, low, no-hatch conditions they seem devoid of fish.  This river has a limestone bottom that is fairly flat in spots yet it has underwater ledges that change the depth by 6" or so, providing holding spots for fish.  I’ll work these waters from top to bottom, side-to-side with a streamer by wading downstream right down the middle and casting bank to bank. I’ve seen the "truck bed coverage" pattern of rising fish in slow water and though I have caught them on dries, though anticipating their next move can be frustrating (especially in a trico spinner fall) so I often fish them with a small streamer run very shallow and fast.  Even though they are keyed on a specific bug, they will usually smack a well presented streamer, since they are already in the feeding mood. Your post is a clear statement that anglers should spend as much time observing as they spend fishing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  

I did a web search and it seems that we don’t have that specific Mayfly although we do have a number of burrowing Mayflies across the country that are generically called Drakes. These Drake hatches bring up the big fish and also bring out anglers from all over to fish them.   From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance

to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass! The Mayflies on my home river are mainly small, 18 to 22. The exception is a large bright yellow Mayfly that hatches at dusk and into the night in July and August. I caught the largest trout I’ve taken on a dry during this hatch. The problem is that the hatch is strong enough to really interest the fish only once every five years or so. While at the Penn’s Clave, I got to see and fish some March Brown Mayflies. I thought they were huge but I was told that they were small compared to the Green Drakes. Willi

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Good stuff snipped. Willi,  this is an excellent post and something that I have also experienced, albeit in a very much minor scale to yours.  My rivers are much smaller than yours, however the trout do tend to move around in a similar fashion although probably proportionally to the size of the rivers concerned.  I have often found trout in the most bizarre places in the stream that I ordinarily wouldn’t have bothered casting to.  It is only when I have seen the sizeable fish flee from my upstream wading that I have gathered their presence in these particular spots, or else I have been very much surprised by a very much swirlsome rise in a strange spot.   In later visits I would target these areas, and indeed some good trout have been taken by my rod  from these previously "fishless" spots. On my fave stream  (of which I posted a pikkie in ABPF some weeks ago) there is a cow drinking spot that is at the very tail end of a long slow glide / straight pool.  Immediately in front of the shallow draining section are often very big fish for the river 1.5lb plus) in the very shallow water (1 foot deep).   I initially found these fish out years ago by all of their massive bow waves as they all shot off when I went wading up to them in ignorance.  I paid attention to this observation and over the years have had a lot of fun trying to deceive these fish.  On average, these trout in this spot have bettered my tactics as it is quite difficult to present a fly to them in consideration of the prevailing circumstances. These are very tricky fish to cast to with my small 6 foot rod:  in order not to scare the fish by my presence, I have to cast at the fish whilst standing in fast water ~ if I am not careful,  the drag on my line closest to me will accelerate the fly and drag it too fast past the fish.  I have to be sure to collect line quickly and to hold the rod as high as possible to avoid excessive downstream drag on the fly.  My most favoured approach is to use a PT nymph and pitch it about 18 inches upstream of the trout with a snaky cast (i.e. twang the flyline taut about 1 foot above the surface of the water to induce curves in the flyline / leader.  The trick is to try to mend the flyline so as the fly doesn’t suddenly accelerate when the curves are all brought straight by the dragging current. A nice slow start by the nymph is much preferred over the sudden acceleration.  Recently I have tried to get back into dryfly fishing, and this spot is very tricky indeed with the floating fly, however a bushier fly gives more time for the fly to be drifted over the trout before the dreaded drag acceleration.  (that being said,  I have caught plenty of fish with a dragging fly (usually accidentally) !!. One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  The trout all go completely nuts for them,  and the biggies come out into the pool tails and are relatively prone to the fly angler for the first half of the fortnight at least.  The trout seem to be so transfixed with the Mayfly that they will not  see the error of the angler.   For the rest of the year the biggies seem to disappear and are difficult to engage.  During the Mayfly (in England the Mayfly is a specific species of ephemerid, and it is disproportionally bigger than most other upwinged aquatic fly) fortnight the regular structure of trout feeding locations is more or less inverted and we find the big fish out in the open slow water, chasing down mayfly duns anywhere they see them.  I have seen on many occasions trout leap clear of the water to intercept an E. danica as it fluttered a foot or so over the water’s surface. Regards, Michael.

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There is a section of my home river where a walking/biking/jogging path runs above the river on a bluff for about a half mile. This high vantage point provides an unusual and ideal opportunity to observe the comings and going of the trout. It took me a couple of years before I began to utilize this viewing area. At first, I used the path to walk from one spot to the next or else I just waded along the banks of the river. One day, I happened to stop along the path and while looking down into the river saw a good fish feeding, suspended in the water about a foot below the surface, in an area I had ignored in the past. I took the time to check out more of the area, and found numerous good fish feeding in areas that I had passed by before because they didn’t "fit the mold" of good spots. After this first encounter, I’ve made it a habit to make observations of this stretch of water from the overlooking path on a consistent basis. I’ve learned a number of things watching the trout in this area over the years but two things I’ve learned that have changed the way I fish are: trout will move considerable distances to feed and they will choose feeding stations that are "unconventional" based on what is described by most of the angling literature. I’ve been watching these trout for most of the fifteen years I’ve lived here and have found that different fish, for their own reasons, choose different feeding areas. From my observations, it seems that the same fish choose the same stations while actively feeding, at least during water levels where I can observe and/or fish. Trout feed in a variety of locations throughout a stream or river. Some trout move very little from their holding positions to feed even during strong hatches. There are other fish who leave their holding locations to move to active feeding stations. Many of them will do this at specific times of the day depending on the season and will then return to their deeper holding water. I’ve followed fish for several hundred yards as they return to the pool after being spooked off their feeding station. Hatches will also draw them to these areas even if these hatches are at different times than their "regular" schedule. I enjoy fishing for and finding these actively feeding fish for a number of reasons. The fish have moved into these positions for one reason only, to feed and because of this, they are very vulnerable to being caught. Another reason that these fish are worth pursuing is that many of these areas are ignored by the average angler and more often produce better fish. In heavily fished water, and especially in water with open regulations, the better fish have a tendency to feed in areas where they aren’t likely to be caught. An Overview of this Stretch of Observable Water The bottom end of this stretch is the largest and deepest pool in about four or five miles of river that is form by a small diversion dam. This massive pool holds alot of fish. The head of the pool is a broad area of moderate current. The water is slower moving and the bottom more regular than the heads of pools on most western waters. Upstream from the head there is a long flat that runs upstream for about a third of a mile. The current is very moderate to slow and the bottom is regular with very few features. It averages about three feet in depth during higher water conditions, about two feet during average conditions and as low as a foot during low water conditions. There are a few depressions in this stretch where the water is about twice the average depth. At the upstream end of this flat there is a run about two hundred feet in length made up of irregular, faster, slightly deeper water. Upstream of the run there is a short area of very shallow rapid/pocket water.   The Head of the Pool The head of the pool always holds some fish, but during nonfeeding times, the fish are all small. During periods of feeding activity, a good number of fish utilize the head of the pool. There is usually a pod of fish just off the near bank in the deepest water just upstream of the pool. These are moderate sized fish although I’ve seen one or two very big ones over the years. This is classic feeding water but it is also the heaviest fished part of this stretch of river. I think that there would be more, better fish using this feeding station but since it is heavily fished and the river has open regulations, I think the better fish that utilize it are regularly caught and kept. Just upstream, the water gains a bit of velocity as it becomes more shallow. There are scattered fish throughout this area using the slightly bigger rocks or slight depressions to deflect the current while they feed on the food being swept by. These trout, as a rule, are better than average sized fish. The largest number of fish that feed in the head of the pool, feed on the sloping bar of shallow water on the far side of the river. The bar starts at the far bank and gradually deepens to about three feet in depth until it drops off into the pool at the head. This bar seldom gets fished because it is where 90%+ of the anglers stand to fish the obvious deep run along the near bank. The fish on this bar will consistently feed in water from one to three feet deep but will move into water just inches deep if the hatch is heavy and the sun isn’t direct. This sloping bar holds all sizes of fish. I caught the biggest fish I’ve caught in the river on this bar. It was caught at sunset on a summer eve, on a large dry in very shallow water where I saw it pushing wakes of water as it fed.   The Long Flat The next upstream stretch is the longest area of this section, almost about a third of a mile in length. It is a very featureless stretch of slow to moderately moving water. Aside from a few scattered fish that have found small niches, there is very little holding water and during nonfeeding times, it is virtually devoid of fish. It is water that in the past, I had always considered to be waste water. However, each morning and evening during the "season" trout move up from the pool to feed in this area. Hatches during the day will also bring fish up from the downstream pool. Some fish set up typical feeding stations but because of the slow current speed in many areas, some of the trout will set up a territory and cruise, more like lake dwelling fish. These fish will typically set up a feeding pattern covering an area typically about the size of large truck’s bed. They’ll feed at their upstream limit, then drift back and to the side to feed again and then repeat this pattern until they reach their downstream limit.  Then the fish will swim back to its starting position and start the cycle over again. In this apparently, featureless area, most of the feeding stations or territories are difficult or impossible to find without directly observing the fish from the elevated bank because there are no obvious visual cues that suggest a good lie. Even when observing the fish in their stations/territories, it is usually impossible to discern what advantage their chosen area has over another seemingly identical area that never holds a fish. This long stretch of water will produce all sizes of fish. Again I’ve observed that the very few "obvious" spots, generally don’t hold the best fish. Again, I believe that this is because the better fish that use these obvious areas are caught and kept. The Top Run and Rapids Section The broken surface of the water in this area makes direct observation impossible except during very low water levels. Most of the observations I’ve made are based on fish rising, bulging or pushing water while feeding as well as by angling for them. There are a few deeper spots in this area as well as some undercuts that also serve as holding water. Even though this area is fished fairly heavily, it consistently produces better fish. However, once again the best fish tend to be in areas that are either neglected by other anglers ie. VERY shallow sections or are difficult to fish ie undercut willows. All the typical lies in this area hold fish. Each seam, back eddy, pocket, depression, etc. has the potential of a fish. Because of its broken and somewhat deeper water, this is the only area in this whole stretch of river that will hold better fish during "off" times. During feeding periods, more fish will move into this area from the downstream pool. I’ve had some exceptional days on this area, especially during hatches. However, most of the best fish I’ve taken from this area have been in the VERY shallow water in the edges of the rapids at the top of the run. Sometimes they’ll feed in water so shallow that I’ve spotted the fish by the bulges of water they pushed upward while they’re feeding. Shallow areas like these are ignored by virtually all anglers. The other spot in this area where I’ve consistently caught good fish is a small eddy behind a log protruding from the bank. This spot is difficult to fish and requires an unconventional approach to cover correctly. These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Response:

Question:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it? — // Dan in Old Town, Maine \

I purchased an L. L. Bean gortex wading jacket with the neoprene cuffs, handwarmer pockets, etc.  several years ago for a trip to Ireland.  I recommend it highly!  The price was not bad and the features are great. Tight Lines, Mike.

Response:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it? I want to have several options: leak proof sleeve cuffs (neoprene or something) adjustable waist, several pockets on outside and inside, adjustable hood, ability to get into vest inside without opening jacket, hand warming pockets. Does one exist ?? I have seen Cabela’s, LL Bean’s and Streamline’s. What else is out there ? I like Cabela’s price but Bean’s features. What do you say ??

I have a Cabella’s Gore-Tex and it works fine.  I fished for 6 hours in a cold rain in mid may and it kept me completly dry. MikeH

Response:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it?

Hi Dan, I’ve got the Orvis No-Sweat Wading jacket and I like it!  It’s made out of the same stuff the Orvis No-Sweat waders are.  The outer fabric is brushed microfiber, the inside is mesh.  Comes in a sage green color.   The hood is adjustable for length, allows peripheral vision, has a good bill, allows you to tighten it up close or loosen it and the hood turns when you turn.  No more looking into the side of the hood when you turn your head. It has adjustable wrist seals and a drawstring waist that you can tighten from inside the hand-warmer pockets which are located behind the two large outer pockets.  D-ring on back for your net.  The whole jacket will stuff into the front right pocket.  Hang it up, or put it right on, and the wrinkles fall right out of it in a few minutes. I used it in the salt for the first time about two weeks ago and it worked great. Hiked around a bunch in it and stayed comfy.   I did get wet inside the jacket once because I didn’t seal the waist with the drawstring and a wave hit me and scooted up the inside (brrrrr).  Only did that once, learned my leasson real quick.   Real happy with it so far.  Price is $195, though the Orvis company stores have it on sale right now for ~ $156.  Don’t know how long that lower price will be good – real unusual to have Orvis fishing equipment on sale this time of year.                                     Hope this helps,                                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it? I want to have several options: leak proof sleeve cuffs (neoprene or something) adjustable waist, several pockets on outside and inside, adjustable hood, ability to get into vest inside without opening jacket, hand warming pockets. Does one exist ?? I have seen Cabela’s, LL Bean’s and Streamline’s. What else is out there ? I like Cabela’s price but Bean’s features. What do you say ?? — // Dan in Old Town, Maine \

Response:

I am looking into getting a rainproof wading jacket. What is everyone using and how do you like it? I want to have several options: leak proof sleeve cuffs (neoprene or something) adjustable waist, several pockets on outside and inside, adjustable hood, ability to get into vest inside without opening jacket, hand warming pockets. Does one exist ?? I have seen Cabela’s, LL Bean’s and Streamline’s. What else is out there ? I like Cabela’s price but Bean’s features. What do you say ?? — // Dan in Old Town, Maine \

I’ve been wearing the Streamline and I’m relatively pleased with it. The fit is good, front pockets could be a little higher, hood is good, and is cut large enough for casting, stretching, etc. — Best regards, Dave Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

Response:

I love Filson stuff It will last you a life time of that I’m sure. yes it would be some what heavy, I would like to have a Filson if I was fishing in alot of brush you would be hard pressed to tear it. I wouldn’t think a lite weight jacket would live up to much over time. Now I do know a guy that has both one a Filson and a Simms gortex, The lite weight one will pack up in to a smaller size. As for the one that will work for you I’m sure that will depend on how and where you fish. For me it would be the Filson If I’m going to spend that much for a jacket I want it to last. Eric

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them. — Tim Apple

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I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them. — Tim Apple

Response:

I don’t have either of the wading jackets that you mentioned, but I can attest to the quality of the Filson product line. I have a couple of their luggage bags and I extensively use their rod and reel travel bag. I carry three reels, two fly boxes and two rod tubes in the travel bag all of the time. I have never had a problem with the Filson products in the years that I’ve used them. Now that you’ve remined me that they have a wading jacket, I have something to put on my wish list from Santa. Ryan -who lives a few miles from their factory in Seattle.

Response:

I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them.

I’ve got the Filson jacket and it’s as Ryan says below — their stuff is pretty much bulletproof. However, you should also keep in mind that their gear kicks it old-school (as flyfishing rappers like to say). Which is to say that even though their wading jacket is very tough and pretty much impregnable to rain, it breathes about as well as Darth Vader. You’ll end up sweating a lot and then getting chilled because of it since the sweat has nowhere to go. That’s my experience anyway. Keeping it real, – Sid

Response:

I like filson stuff, but it tends to be heavy…I’ve abandoned my Filson vest for a Simms vest I’m much happier with…for camping though, I use their tin pants and an oil cloth jacket as well and I love them.  If I were buying a wading jacket today, I would go light-weight. Eugene Knapik Toronto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them. I’ve got the Filson jacket and it’s as Ryan says below — their stuff is pretty much bulletproof. However, you should also keep in mind that their gear kicks it old-school (as flyfishing rappers like to say). Which is to say that even though their wading jacket is very tough and pretty much impregnable to rain, it breathes about as well as Darth Vader. You’ll end up sweating a lot and then getting chilled because of it since the sweat has nowhere to go. That’s my experience anyway. Keeping it real, – Sid

Response:

Hi, I have a Filson Cruiser which I have bought sometime in the late 1960’s. Based on my experience with the wool jacket, a great product, I later bought a Filson fishing hat.  The hat however was totally unacceptable and I threw it out.  It was made of oiled canvas and I found it to be much too heavy and much too hot.  I am not familiar with the wading jacket but if it is made of the same material, I would think twice about buying it. Best regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the process of choosing between the wilson creek or filson wading jacket, has anyone used either. If so could you let me know what you think of them. — Tim Apple

Response:

Question:

Hmmm, wandered the desert on LSD??  Interesting… I could never seem to get beyond the wood grain on the legs of my coffe table….now, maybe I wasn’t getting the good shit ?!?! <g…. YMMV. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Obviously not a fly fisher.  Should have read:  "I need bugs".  "I hate wind".

Response:

That response is so brilliant I’m going to try to track him down (been 20 years) and send it to him!

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

 Neat set of friends you hang with Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Tell him I know exactly what he means.

Response:

Question:

Hi My sentiments are similar to Christian’s first posting. I prefer a slightly stiffer rod when Spey casting, I started with a so called "Spey" but found it difficult to achieve distance without perfect timing. You need to slow down your whole casting action, wait for the rod to load before applying the power. Timing is everything when using a traditional Spey actioned rod. They are not suitable for using with any kind of sinking line, the action is just too slow and this gives the line time to sink between the "back cast" and forward cast. I soon changed to a 15′ 1" Sage with a stiffer action and found this to be near perfect for me, with both floating and sinking lines. It can be used with shooting heads as Christian mentions (12 meters of #12 line is perfect) and casts of 40+ yards are fairly routine with this method. It is tireing though having to strip in nearly 30 yards of line every cast. As for breakages, the more expensive the rod the better the guarentee (usually), my Sage has a lifetime guarentee, the Diawa doesn’t have any guarentee. As usual it all comes down to "how much you want to spend". Bruce & Walker rods are a range I can recommend – buy the "Walker" rods they have the stiffer action. The Norway or Speycaster range are excellent rods. The Diawa Amorphous is a good range. At the top of the tree are the Sage and the Hardy Ultralite/Elite range. Only my opinions. Chris

Response:

Hi Chris

Hi Chris I would like to make a couple of small but very important points here regarding your change from one rod to another. It is my humble opinion  your first rod didn’t quite suit your casting style and or body shape. With the greatest respects that doesn’t mean that particular rod is not suitable for somebody else. Just as your move to a Sage doesn’t mean that a Sage will suit everybody. My point is that the individual must buy a rod that suits/fits him or her. Two of my mates fish and cast perfectly well with 19ft (yes 19 feet) B&W’s but I cannot cast very well with them. I can cast however the same amount of line (as them) with a 15ft B&W, I can also cast a few of the other available rods, including almost all of the Daiwa rods, equally well. Other rods that I cannot come to grips with are the B&W Hexograph the Sage (Chris’s rod) and some of the Walkers although I think with practice I could master the Walkers. My point is that someone buying a new rod must try a few out first and choose the one that they think suits them. I fish regularly with a stiff rod the B&W 15ft heavy duty Expert, but this rod has a very fast action, unlike the slower action of the ones I cannot use. As mentioned before there are many X’s in the equation and here are some of them. A stiff rod with a fast action A stiff rod with a slow action A soft rod with a slow action ( I can’t think of a soft rod that’s got a fast action) The size of line you choose to fish with your chosen rod, (normally rods are rated for three sizes, but there is a tremendous difference between a 9 and an 11. This will also has an impact on how soft the rod feels and casts) Floating etc…etc…etc…. Okay I’m off the pedastal ) Regards Lawr, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi My sentiments are similar to Christian’s first posting. I prefer a slightly stiffer rod when Spey casting, I started with a so called "Spey" but found it difficult to achieve distance without perfect timing. You need to slow down your whole casting action, wait for the rod to load before applying the power. Timing is everything when using a traditional Spey actioned rod. They are not suitable for using with any kind of sinking line, the action is just too slow and this gives the line time to sink between the "back cast" and forward cast. I soon changed to a 15′ 1" Sage with a stiffer action and found this to be near perfect for me, with both floating and sinking lines. It can be used with shooting heads as Christian mentions (12 meters of #12 line is perfect) and casts of 40+ yards are fairly routine with this method. It is tireing though having to strip in nearly 30 yards of line every cast. As for breakages, the more expensive the rod the better the guarentee (usually), my Sage has a lifetime guarentee, the Diawa doesn’t have any guarentee. As usual it all comes down to "how much you want to spend". Bruce & Walker rods are a range I can recommend – buy the "Walker" rods they have the stiffer action. The Norway or Speycaster range are excellent rods. The Diawa Amorphous is a good range. At the top of the tree are the Sage and the Hardy Ultralite/Elite range. Only my opinions. Chris

Response:

My fishing buddy and I have obseved a few people Spey casting up here on the Miramichi.  It looks like fun.  They cast a mile-long line.  But, we have always wondered if the method helps them catch more fish?  We cover the same amount of water (or more) by fishing from a canoe.  If there are fish that are out of our reach, we just move the boat into a position so that we get a good swing over them. JB

Response:

Hi Lawr You are right to make these valid points but I thought I had mentioned them in my original posting, I checked and I had. I prefer a slightly stiffer rod when Spey casting Timing is everything when using a traditional Spey actioned rod. I soon changed to a 15′ 1" Sage with a stiffer action and found this to be near perfect for me

I think these snippits confirm that the information I gave was MY preferences, I was not trying to make hard and fast rules that apply to everybody. As for hard and fast rules I still believe the only comment I made against traditional actioned "spey" rods was They are not suitable for using with any kind of sinking line, the action is just too slow and this gives the line time to sink between the "back cast" and forward cast.

and this is something I still maintain. Thanks for keeping us on our toes Lawr. Chris

Response:

I’m sorry Chris!! I wasn’t trying to have a go at your opinions, postings can often come across a bit strong. My intention was to add other considerations to all the other opinions including yours. Don’t mind me I rattle on a bit when it’s a subject I like ) however I can say sorry and I can do a U-Turn if I’m wrong ) Best Regards Lawr, PS Have you checked out the Ness System reports etc…on my website?? www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Lawr You are right to make these valid points but I thought I had mentioned them in my original posting, I checked and I had. I prefer a slightly stiffer rod when Spey casting Timing is everything when using a traditional Spey actioned rod. I soon changed to a 15′ 1" Sage with a stiffer action and found this to be near perfect for me I think these snippits confirm that the information I gave was MY preferences, I was not trying to make hard and fast rules that apply to everybody. As for hard and fast rules I still believe the only comment I made against traditional actioned "spey" rods was They are not suitable for using with any kind of sinking line, the action is just too slow and this gives the line time to sink between the "back cast" and forward cast. and this is something I still maintain. Thanks for keeping us on our toes Lawr. Chris

Response:

Hi, I am interested in buying a double handed salmon rod, It should be quite allround, so I am thinking of a rod of about 14′ for #9/10. I have been casting both (still having to learn a lot) and like the single and double Spey and rollcasts. Should I choose the somewhat softer "old" design Speycastrods or would a modern stiffer design be better ???? I don’t want to start with just a cheap rod, then a fair rod, a good rod and after that buying a realy nice rod. Good advise is welcome……. Regards, Ger.

Response:

It should be quite allround, so I am thinking of a rod of about 14′ for #9/10. [...] Should I choose the somewhat softer "old" design Speycastrods or would a modern stiffer design be better ????

I say go for the modern stiffer design.  Not that you especially need a stiff rod, but because the old design speyrods were designed with traditional speycasting in mind, meaning loading the rod all the way around the spey cast. Nowadays, you would just go with a shooting head and a spiced up roll cast. I’ll happily admit, I’m drawing up two extremes here, and even though your question kinda opened that door, it isn’t particularly useful in terms of fishing. The old style spey casting would enable you to cast a 45 yard DT line in a single casting motion, but it required very good technique and it was also hard work. Rods had to be heavy and slow action to perform such a cast, and I think you need to wear tweed to get it right, as well..   That time has past, basically. — At least here in Norway. ( it seems the time of rivers packed with salmon are gone up here too..)  Lightweight, fast rods are dominating, and shooting heads are getting more popular. Some still use WF-lines or other taperings, in contrast to the now rare, but formerly very popular DT line. Most people tend to retrieve quite a bit of line before making the cast (especially with shooting heads), and the cast isn’t really a jolly old God save the Queen spey cast (Hi there, Brits! , but more like an advanced roll cast. It works, and I’ve found it to be much easier than real spey casting. The distance potential is impeccable, and its only drawback is that you have your fly less in the water than with real spey casting (due to line retrieval between casts). Also, sinking vs. floating line can make a difference in your choice. To handle a sinking line, a light weight, fast tip-action rod might not be sufficient. But for WF or ST floating lines, the faster and lighter rod would excel. So, I think you need to ask yourself, do you want to fish effectively and easily with a two-handed rod, or do you in fact want to learn the traditional spey casting?  Absolutely nothing wrong with the latter. I may be off with my definitions. The last time I responded to a spey cast question, several knowledgeable people objected and offered alternative views, and I can’t guarantee I got it right this time. I just feel that you perhaps shouldn’t go for the heavy, slow action rod, based solely on tradition, without considering more modern applications of two-handed casting (and besides, slow action rods doesn’t have to be heavy – I just made that up.. ). As always when buying a rod, test casting several options is the best way to go. We all have our quirks and preferences. Too fast of an action can be very bad, considering you’re dealing with a 14′ rod here –the longer the rod, the more accuracy is needed in handling it. Personally, I would put great emphasis on weight. I use to have a Bruce & Walker Powerlite 15′, an absolutely wonderful rod, extremely light weight for its size. It broke, and most other rods I’ve tried, made me and especially my back longing for my B&W.. Its successor is the B&W Powerlite Speycaster, and if you have the chance, I’d suggest you have a look at it. — Christian Figenschou – http://figen.com

Response:

Should I choose the somewhat softer "old" design Speycastrods or would a modern stiffer design be better ????

If you plan to use switch, single and double spey casts, then go with a true "spey" rod. If you plan to use casts like one would with a trout rod (i.e. overhand + false casting), then go with a more modern rod. The big difference is that the spey rod flexes for the entire length of the shaft, and it can handle flexing in all directions.  More modern rods have a "progressive taper" where the butt section of the shaft hardly bends and most of the flex occurs in the top 1/3-rd of the shaft.  Modern rods have also been optimized for front-back casting, and may not handle flexing in all directions as well as a spey rod. Finally, don’t confuse stiffness with power.  Modern rods have a quick snappy tip designed to generate high line speed over a short distance.  Older rods, including glass, generate moderate line speed, but over a greater distance. In part because of my decent but not super-powerful wrist and forearm strength, I feel like I can toss a line farther and more accurately with the softer rods. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Thomas and Christian have given you very good advice however it is my humble opinion that you must buy a rod that suits/fits  *you*.  When buying a pair of shoes you do not buy a pair that fits somebody else and this is the case with Spey Rods. When Spey casting/fishing there are many many X’s in the equation and without trying a rod on to see if it *fits* you (and the type of water you are fishing) you will be unaware of them. This is why it takes years to perfect a good Spey cast. You are right however to go for a good quality rod first time round. On the river Ness System Scotland, a great Spey casting area, the most common rod is the Daiwa  Amorphous 15 or 16 ft, I don’t own one at the moment but if buying a new rod I would buy the 15ft. The extra lightweight rods *may* have a tendency to break as Christian pointed out especially if using a sink tip or full sinking line. HTH Lawr, www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk         "Fishing On The Fly"               :{)< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I am interested in buying a double handed salmon rod, It should be quite allround, so I am thinking of a rod of about 14′ for #9/10. I have been casting both (still having to learn a lot) and like the single and double Spey and rollcasts. Should I choose the somewhat softer "old" design Speycastrods or would a modern stiffer design be better ???? I don’t want to start with just a cheap rod, then a fair rod, a good rod and after that buying a realy nice rod. Good advise is welcome……. Regards, Ger.

Response:

Oh! dear does your friend have a licence ) (only kidding) When you get accustomed to a rod it is difficult to make the transition to another rod. Even two rods from the same maker with exactly the same specifications (i.e. two B&W 15ft heavy duty Experts) can have different actions. Over the years I have seen quite a few Spey rods broken during casting (the noise is a bit like a gun going off) with no particular rod type being the worst case.  IMHO it would be more difficult to break an Expert than say a Powerlight especially if using a sinking line or sink tip coupled with 3 inch leaded waddington. I know the above is an extreme case but you may need a rod that is capable of fishing all the extremes. Regards Lawr, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The extra lightweight rods *may* have a tendency to break as Christian pointed out especially if using a sink tip or full sinking line. In this particular case, I’ve found them to have a tendency of breaking when your friend runs over them with his car..   — Christian Figenschou – http://figen.com

Response:

Question:

I would like some advice on bite tippets for Blue Fish and other toothy critters – both fresh and saltwater.  I have used various wire type leaders for spin fishing but have no experience with fly fishing for northerns, blue fish etc. Thanks Jim

Response:

For bluefish smaller than 4 pounds you can get away with 30 pound mason or similar hard mono.  Anything bigger and you will wnat singlestrand wire. Cehck out any of the good knot books (Mclane or whoever) for ways to join wire to mono. For spanish mackerel heavy mono is fine.  King macs wire.   Northern pike will let you get away with mono.  there are some who say wire is better because it is thinner.  In my experience it just scares the fish due to shine.  Use clear Mason. Do no use braided wire.  No good at all.

I would like some advice on bite tippets for Blue Fish and other toothy critters – both fresh and saltwater.  I have used various wire type leaders for spin fishing but have no experience with fly fishing for northerns, blue fish etc. Thanks Jim — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                    

Response:

I would like some advice on bite tippets for Blue Fish and other toothy critters – both fresh and saltwater.  I have used various wire type leaders for spin fishing but have no experience with fly fishing for northerns, blue fish etc. Thanks Jim

Hi Jim, I think most fly fishers use wire for Barracudas, Northern Pike, Sharks and Bluefish. For Billfish, Tarpon, Snook and Jacks most use heavy/hard mono. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy?   Also, is water level important on a particular stream?

Changes in colour/clarity may be more important than default colour/clarity.  Usual folklore is that FF success declines when a spate river is growing muddy and improves as it gets clearer.  But fish are adapted to the default environment (and can live all the time in permanently clouded water, as you find in clay/limestone regions.) Similarly, rising or falling water levels probably matter more than default levels.  The changes are important since they enlarge or reduce living space for both fish and their prey. The simplest tactic is to fish upstream as far as possible, to reduce the chances of the trout’s seeing you first. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Dear Anglers: I’m a newbie to the sport and I have enjoyed it very much so far.  Haven’t caught anything yet, but my casting is improving tremendously with regular practice (though I have to admit that it’s a hell of a lot more fun practicing on the water than in the grass at the park like everyone recommends).  Now, I have a couple of questions for the experts: 1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy?   Also, is water level important on a particular stream?

Hi Anthony Usually water clarity & level does affect fishing.  What you need to decide is what the norm is and go from there.  Water that is dirty after a storm may put the fishing off.  On the other hand if the fish have been suffering from water that is shallow and too warm, raising off colored water may very well improve fishing. Another very important consideration is water temperature in relation to the species of fish you are interested in.  Trout like cooler water than bass as an example. 2. I’ve read of fly fishers using Clouser minnows or streamers in the riffles, and other dry flies and such in slow moving/calm water.  Do you change your fly every few minutes as you are fishing your way down a stream or do you hit the riffles and then come back for the eddys and slow spots?

I do not change my fly every few minutes but instead decide what I want to fish — streamer, dry, or nymph — and do so.  I base my decision on what seems to be happening on the water at any given time.  If the fish are actively feeding I determine what they are eating and try to match that.  I often fish two flies when fish are feeding on or near the surface — a dry and an emerger of whatever species is hatching.   If nothing is happening on the water I usually fish nymphs or a nymph/streamer combination.  To fish the combo I tie a nymph on my tippet,then tie an additional piece of tippet to the bend of the nymph’s hook and tie on a streamer.  This rig will look like a small fish chasing a nymph and can be real effective.  Cast it quartering up-stream and let it dead drift as long as the current will allow.  Then let it swing accross current until it is downstream from you. Then repeat the process. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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I’m a newbie to the sport … 1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy? Also, is water level important on a particular stream?

Colour/clarity is siginificant, as is water level.  The impact and degree of these varies widely.  A normally clear stream which is suddenly high and muddy after a big rain will be mostly unfishable, until it starts to clear.  It can still be FFed, though with a big weighted nymph or wet fly.  (The fish still need to eat.) 2. I’ve read of fly fishers using Clouser minnows or streamers in the riffles, and other dry flies and such in slow moving/calm water.  Do you change your fly every few minutes as you are fishing your way down a stream or do you hit the riffles and then come back for the eddys and slow spots?

Basically, NO.  That is, don’t complicate things.  If you want to use a dry fly, then use a dry fly.  If you want to use a streamer (such as Clouser minnow), then do that.  For starters, use a big nymph, or maybe an attractor wet fly.  Cast across and let the fly swing downstream.  When it gets straight down below you, strip in line, a few inches at a time, and repeat.  The areas that you want to concentrate on are the seams (where the fast water makes a noticable line against the slower stuff) and around visible structure like rocks.  You can do the same with an attractor dry fly.  I know it’s BIG HERESY, but you can cast across, and let the fly swing down in the current.  Try to minimize, and eventually eliminate drag (the wake produced by the fly being pulled across the water by the line/leader).  Again, concentrate on the seams and visible structure. Don’t worry about big long casts.  Unless you fish some huge river like the Missouri, most of your casts will probably be less than 30 or 40 feet.  Focus on not slapping the line, not dropping your backcast too low, and such. When you get comfortable with this basic stuff, then you might try "strategies" like fishing nymphs downstream, and working your way down the river for several hundred yards, then coming back up with a dry, this time casting in the "proper" upstream method. Then there’s matching the hatch and all that, which will eventually come. To answer your basic question, most of us DO NOT do as you pictured: dry fly this yard and a half of water, wet fly that, nymph another couple of feet, streamer across there, back to a dry, then another streamer.  We pretty much focus on one strategy/concept/idea/dream and K.I.S.S. Hope that helps, see you OUT THERE. — Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON, Canada **new**     http://home.ican.net/~rlundy/

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[rip !] 1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy? Also, is water level important on a particular stream?

I love it when the water goes off color.   I whip out my big flies and my 3X.  I am a bit of a heretic because I relish the highest, muddiest part of runoff.  No people and I nail big trout my friend.  I do not seek perfect conditions ever in my fishing, I simply try to see that perfection which is always there.   2. I’ve read of fly fishers using Clouser minnows or streamers in the riffles, and other dry flies and such in slow moving/calm water.  Do you change your fly every few minutes as you are fishing your way down a stream or do you hit the riffles and then come back for the eddys and slow spots?

Good question.  The answer is, only if one or the other is not producing.   If you’re catchin’ ‘em in the tail outs or riffles, you ain’t be movin’ down to the pockets, will ya ? TimW

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Dear Anglers: I’m a newbie to the sport and I have enjoyed it very much so far.  Haven’t caught anything yet, but my casting is improving tremendously with regular practice (though I have to admit that it’s a hell of a lot more fun practicing on the water than in the grass at the park like everyone recommends).  Now, I have a couple of questions for the experts: 1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy?   Also, is water level important on a particular stream? 2. I’ve read of fly fishers using Clouser minnows or streamers in the riffles, and other dry flies and such in slow moving/calm water.  Do you change your fly every few minutes as you are fishing your way down a stream or do you hit the riffles and then come back for the eddys and slow spots? Thanks in advance, — Anthony J. Petrella University of Pittsburgh Department of Mechanical Engineering

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: runoff.  No people and I nail big trout my friend.  I do not seek : perfect conditions ever in my fishing, I simply try to see that perfection : which is always there.   Tim Walker, demonstrating that he is actually the roff Buddha. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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*SNIP* The worst caster in the world is going to catch more fish then (boy, is this going to cause a rumpus) an olympic gold medal caster (if there was one) if they can make their fly float more naturally while it’s on the water.

Only true if the worst caster in the world can get it to land delicately on target.  If you can’t get your fly to the target, everything else is a moot point.   But, you’re right, it doesn’t have to look pretty it just has to work. The thing you  may find out is that it’s a lot easier to consistently put the fly on the  target if your casting is good. I agree totally with your comment on drift.  In real estate it’s "location, location, location"  IMO in fly fishing it’s "presentation, presentation, presentation".                                                            Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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I’m no expert, but have caught a few trout over the years, so I can only tell you what I’m most comfortable with and what works for me. And, I’ll just be addressing dry flies. 1- if the water is very high fast and dirty I don’t bother. If it’s high fast and clear, well…. I’ll get to that in a sec. 2- I fish mostly attractors, and, worry about matching a hatch only if we’re in the middle of a major hatch period. Of course I’ll give a hopper or some such a chance later in the season. 3- I fish and travel UP and cross stream, fishing ahead of myself and letting the fly float down past me. 4- a good cast is all very well and good, and looks impressive as hell to somebody watching from the shore, but, the fish could care less about a cast as long as the fly dosn’t slam down on the water and you don’t lay your line right over the fish. The worst caster in the world is going to catch more fish then (boy, is this going to cause a rumpus) an olympic gold medal caster (if there was one) if they can make their fly float more naturally while it’s on the water. Lolo Mt.

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Question:

You want: Trout and Salmon Rivers and Lochs of Scotland Bruce Sandison Merlin Unwin Books.

Question:

I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned with.  help me.  thanks.

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: I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks. I would check out the GLoomis GL3..I’ve heard great things bout them Frankie

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: I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks. I would check out the GLoomis GL3..I’ve heard great things bout them Frankie

…And more…*($^#&#Y  For a little more you could pick up an Orvis PM….the 8′4" is pretty nice. just another option steve d.

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: I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks.

The Bean reels are heavier than the Orvis reels.  This may be good or it may be bad.  It depends on how you like to balance your outfit.  My Henry’s Fork balances nicely with a Battenkill 5/6 Disc; I do not want the extra weight of a Bean Guide reel. I am picking nits.  I am sure that you would be happy with either (or both!). — Keep your stick on the ice.

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: I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks. The Bean reels are heavier than the Orvis reels.  This may be good or it may be bad.  It depends on how you like to balance your outfit.  My Henry’s Fork balances nicely with a Battenkill 5/6 Disc; I do not want the extra weight of a Bean Guide reel. I am picking nits.  I am sure that you would be happy with either (or both!).

I know this is going to start a war but…. From what I have seen LL Bean is a great clothing store but they don’t seem to produce (or re-package with their name) equipment of the quality you can get from Orvis.  I would go with the Orvis every time. Well time to climb into the bomb shelter ! Tom

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks. The Bean reels are heavier than the Orvis reels.  This may be good or it may be bad.  It depends on how you like to balance your outfit.  My Henry’s Fork balances nicely with a Battenkill 5/6 Disc; I do not want the extra weight of a Bean Guide reel. I am picking nits.  I am sure that you would be happy with either (or both!). I know this is going to start a war but…. From what I have seen LL Bean is a great clothing store but they don’t seem to produce (or re-package with their name) equipment of the quality you can get from Orvis.  I would go with the Orvis every time. Well time to climb into the bomb shelter ! Tom

INCOMMMMMINNNNNNGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!

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        I personally wouldn’t choose a combo from either Orvis of L.L.Bean. I think you could do yourself a favor by putting your own set-up together. G.Loomis, Thomas & Thomas, and Powell make rods in your price range that offer good actions and strong warranties. As far as reels go, I would suggest a Ross Cimmeron or a Orvis Battenkill in your price range. These reels are probably more than you need for a 4 weight rod.         I hope my butting in was not taking wrong. The only thing I wanted to do is help. If I can be of further assistance my e-mail address

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I know this is going to start a war but…. From what I have seen LL Bean is a great clothing store but they don’t seem to produce (or re-package with their name) equipment of the quality you can get from Orvis.  I would go with the Orvis every time.

No war, Tom, just a difference of opinion. I think the quality of L.L. Bean fly fishing gear is every bit as good as Orvis and offers better value as well. The Angler series is a wonderful choice for someone getting into fly fishing who wants to buy stuff they will fish with for a lifetime as opposed to so much of the entry-level stuff that is just not so well made. (I suppose the Orvis Clearwater series is probably very nice, too, but I haven’t seen that stuff yet.) In addition, L.L. Bean is a model of customer service and offers their unconditional lifetime guarantee on everything they sell. I go with L.L. Bean every time I can. (And no, I don’t work for Bean’s, hold their stock, or anything else like that.) – Scott — Sustaining and Specials Engineering     voice: 508 952-4792 Xyplex, Inc.                            fax: 508 952-4887 295 Foster St.                          (Opinions, comments, etc. are mine, Littleton, MA 01460                                     not Xyplex’s…)

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Actually, the LLBean Guide & LL series rods are built on Loomis blanks. (Call ‘em up; they’ll tell you who makes any of the fishing gear for them.) The Bean guarantee is basically "whatever, forever". Friends have even sent back leaky old waders for repair/replacement/credit. Orvis rods are fine if you like the generally slower actions, and don’t mind the ugly blanks .

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I know this is going to start a war but…. From what I have seen LL Bean is a great clothing store but they don’t seem to produce (or re-package with their name) equipment of the quality you can get from Orvis.  I would go with the Orvis every time.

Misattribution.  I am a big LL Bean fan, and if the Canadian dollar were spunkier I would buy much more from them. Joke:  The Royal Canadian Mint has come up with a name for the new $2 CDN coin: an American dollar. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Buying a rod without casting it is always tricky.  I know the bass pond sends rods out for demo’s.  Orvis rods have a consistentcy of action, that I learned to appreciate as I sold them and fished them.  The actions vary between the different class of rods but there is a consistency overall that is hard to explain.  Keep shopping and you’ll find what you like at a price you can afford.  I prefer, an early 9ft sage 1st generation 4-5 five weight, the Orvis western 9ft 3wt, 8-6 2wt and the fullflex 6wt BMckinley Mpls

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LLOOMIS   L O O M I S   L    O    O    M    I    S   REGARDS MATT

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Question:

Would you be so kind as to tell an old boy from Florida what a "spey rod" is and what it’s used for.

Spey rods were developped and still used for freshwater salmon fishing in rivers.  The rods are double handed and are 12+’ up to 16′.  The rods allow you to make long (40yds+) casts in gorges ravines where there is no room ‘behind’ for a back cast.  The length of the rod also allows you to control the water ie control the swing of the fly to get the right speed releative to the current.  Old hands on the river Ness in Scotland were able to throw approx 50yds to the far bank and catch fish in places where no one else could reach.  I believe that they are increasingly being used by Steelheaders over your side of the pond.  You might want to try one for bonefish you could sure lay a long line in a stiff breeze! Chris Enstone

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rivers.  The rods are double handed and are 12+’ up to 16′.  The rods allow you to make long (40yds+) casts in gorges ravines where there is no room ‘behind’ for a back cast.  The length of the rod also allows you to control the water ie control the swing of the fly to get the right speed releative to the current.  Old hands on the river Ness in Scotland were able to throw approx 50yds to the far bank and catch fish in places where no one else could reach.

You really mean yards (120-150 ft cast). I can hardly cast my fly 70ft+ now. Is spey casting easy to learn? How far could an average caster cast with a spey rod, in an ideal condition? Thi Nguyen

Response:

Bruce and Walker in England make spey rods for spey casting.  I have a 14′ for 10-11 weight designed by Hugh Falkus that I enjoy very much. I have also used the Bruce and Walker Merlin, which is a 15′ for an 11 wt. that is also quite nice. Both are much slower than the Sage rods. If you contact either the Sparrow’s Nest, or Kaufman’s Fly shop, both in Seattle, they can put you in touch with Joe Rissano, who imports these rods into the U.S.

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writes: Bruce and Walker in England make spey rods for spey casting.  I have a 14′ for 10-11 weight designed by Hugh Falkus that I enjoy very much.

Would you be so kind as to tell an old boy from Florida what a "spey rod" is and what it’s used for. Thank you.

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Question:

 Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small  pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish  with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill  and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs)  catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has  anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures  is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best?   Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly.                           Brian Hadley

        I’m the onw who’s smewhat responible for all this catfish talk, and through my queries have heard of similar instances.  An article that lies at my feet says that when they spawn, they are best on crankbaits and spinnerbai et etc.  Interesting. —      |  Travis L. Clements |    And we all like the bit when you take      |  N. Logan, Utah     |    The jeans from the refridgerator and  

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writes: Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best?  Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly.

I’ve caught channel cats on 4-5 inch jointed floating Rapalas on the Allegheny River here in PA. I’ve even seen them rising for large white mayflies during a hatch. I wasn’t able to catch them with a fly, only a white Mr. Twister. Jason

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|  and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) |  catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has |  anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures |  is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best? From time to time I have caught cats on a lure.  They have hit mostly, but not exclusively, crankbait type lures fished along the bottom. The thing this most resembles is a crawfish, i.e., the action of crawling along the bottom stiring up the mud.  The color/pattern didn’t seem to matter-although I prefer shad color crankbaits first and crawfish color second.  I have also caught them on plastic worms when bassin’. Tight Lines, Mark O’Shea — In the absence of common sense we will not accept responsibility for any acts of complete or even partial stupidity.

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|   |  Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small |  pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish |  with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill |  and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) |  catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has |  anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures |  is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best? |   Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly. My father, brothers, and I catch lots of catfish with fly rods in the brackish tidal creeks that flow into the coastal rivers of Virginia. We fly cast small jigs and small spinners, and fish them on the bottom (which isn’t usually much more than 6 feet down).  This is very effective for all kinds of species — bream, largemouth, yellow perch, stiffback perch, crappie, and catfish.  You even occasionally hook into something a bit more exotic.   My brother once caught a carp that we estimate was well over 30 lbs.  My brother is about 6′ tall and when he held it up vertically, the tail was touching the ground while the nose was up at his chest.  He could barely stuff it under the front canoe seat after he landed it.  He gave it to a family from Cambodia, who must have feasted on it for days.  We occasionally catch carp in the 15 – 25 lb range.  It’s not all that exciting since it takes forever to land them and you usually assume that you’ve hung bottom until it slowly starts to lumber off.  On a light fly rod a big carp probably doesn’t even realize it’s hooked, so it fights like a log.  I guess we could just break the line, but that is just totally anithetical to an angler’s natural instincts. The catfish seem to hit best when it’s hot.  In the spring and fall we get more bream, largemouth, and perch.  But when it gets good and hot, the catfish take over and become the majority of the catch.  It amazes me how in the middle of a sweltering, humid, windless day, when you would expect all the fish in the creek to be hiding in the deepest hole that they can find, that the catfish are having a feeding frenzy in the shallows. We seem to have the best luck fishing from when the tide is about half out down to low tide and then maybe for the first hour of the incoming tide. These creeks have large, shallow weed beds and marshy areas that are exposed at low tide.  As the tide falls, baitfish have to get out of the shallows and into the main channel or get beached.  This is when the catfish (as well as other species) like to stack up next to any little channel that flows out of the marsh and watch the day’s buffet swim by. — University of Virginia Academic Computing Center

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 Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small  pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish  with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill  and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs)  catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has  anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures  is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best?   Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly.                           Brian Hadley

Response:

Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best?  Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly.                          Brian Hadley

On the Potomac we used to catch catfish on lures all the time, so much so that we used to fish for them specifically with lures. They seem to like the white Mr. Twister jigs we used for Stripers, and also Lime Green Mr. Twisters we used for Largemouth.  We caught plenty on Mepps spinners as well.  I even caught a Bullhead on a tiny torpedo (!)                         Mark — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Harris Space Systems      ::            Melbourne, FL

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: Hello, I was wondering if anybody has heard of this before. I fish a small : pond near my house on occasion and when I’m not using my fly rod I fish : with lures on my ultra light spinning rod. The pond has largemouths, bluegill : and Catfish. On three seperate trips I have caught nice sized (~2-3 lbs) : catfish with spinnerbait lures. Now I’m not an expert on catfish but has : anybody heard of catching them on lures? If you can catch catfish on lures : is there any particular type, size or colors that would work the best? :  Now I’m just trying to figure out how to get them to rise for a dry fly. Caught two on lures last year; both had been sprayed with Garlic Oil(TM). The first was around a 1 1/2 pounder on a purple plastic worm in early April in the back end of a cove on Lake Lanier near Atlanta. The second one was around 2 1/2 to 3 pounds on a "chirstmas tree pattern" Hal Fly on a small lake at Stone Mountain Park.  I was very surpised. I was trolling for crappie at least 2 weeks after they had come off the beds and was only catching "hand-sized" ones (as opposed to some of the slabs that I have caught in the weeks preceeding them going on the beds). I happened to have my small landing net with me, and was rather unhappy that I hadn’t caught the "slab of my dreams" . As for catching catfish on flys… As a boy growing up, my father and I would be able to fish 1-2 times a year with my grandfather in Florida on Lake Talquin(sp).  The lake had (may still have) a large population of blind mosquitoes that were active at night.  We would fish around the full moon with size 8-10 popping bugs for bluegills.  We would catch some "smallish" bass on some trips.  On one trip my father hooked what he taught was a "very" large bass, and after spending approx. 30 minutes getting the fish to the boat the first noise he heard as the fish was being netted was a catfish "croaking".  Weighed the fish the next morning at over 8 pounds. I wonder to this day if that fish was 1) actually trying to eat the popper, 2) chasing a bulegill and got hooked some how, or 3) god just put the thing on the end of that line. — Mike Marler                        | Rich Building, Room 242, Georgia Tech

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