Question:

If the Guardians win in court, or if the government settles, the number of

cows a rancher is allowed to graze with his permit is cut. That hands the Guardians a double victory: Not only does the land get a breather, but the rancher has to pay much more to feed his displaced cows on private land. Interesting concept that "free market"  Sounds like the ranchers prefer a Socialist type system.

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east…

Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. No one said this was going to be easy. George C.

Response:

 What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all livestock that steal their food and habitat. Why? Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the Federal Economy. Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid economics. George G.

Response:

|

| I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of | depopulation in rural communities back east… | | Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was | several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners | were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does | appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider | myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I | also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring | in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an | opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend | (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – | I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend | lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off | (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to | move that land into less intensive uses. | | Thomas Gilg | | | | | Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford | higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will | be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a | huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is | also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches | to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. | | No one said this was going to be easy. | George C. | That may be true, too. The reason my grandfather specialized, was to devote more acres to one crop, to be able to absorb the fixed overheads. But even he had just 500 acres. My father struggled to make money. I refused to take over – it was clear at an early age that it simply COULD NOT be profitable, because of/despite the (socialist) policies of the Common Agricultural Policy, dreamed up by the EU. These same policies were actually intended to protect the family farm. In reality they destroyed it. Q. How far do we go, to protect the family farm? The French have split their farms between 2 (or more) sons for generations. Now they have 100-acre farms that are mere subsistence farming. On an environmental tack – I would prefer to see people grazing farm land that is already farm land & lacking farmers, rather than grazing the more fragile environments often (but not always) found on federal lands. Take the money farm managers pay and use it to encourage farmers to take up the land that has been converted from it’s natural state, into My family were TENANT farmers. After my father & his brother retired, the farm was bought from the landlord & is now actually profitable. Q. HOW – by finding a niche. The current farmers don’t try to compete with the large managed farms. They run an organic farm – even the wool is organic. They don’t need help competing, because they specialisze. I suspect the family-ranchers here in the SW USA will have to also find a niche.

Response:

Even if they are, that just means more money needs to be spent on enforcing the current restrictions, not coming up with more.

And sadly the folks breaking the law are the same ones against any additional government enforcement of the law. Thomas Gilg

Response:

| I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze | that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? | | In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an | incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real | cattleman, you’d change your tune. | | George– | This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments | regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern | Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his | calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their | calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 | years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are | basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and | cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable | to support their families. I grew up on a farm in England – we raised beef without ANY cheap grazing. We found a way – we rented permanent pasture, that was atop historic monuments (and couldn’t be ploughed), we housed steers in the old milking parlour during the Winter (after a milking herd ceased to be profitable), but we NEVER had grazing land subsidised by the taxpayer. We made a living growing beef. Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of | public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families | who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in | case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on | public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your | bread.  Don’t be such a twit. | | Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder | and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. | — | Tight Lines! | Brian D. Nelson | Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana | www.diamondnoutfitters.com | |

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

Brian D. Nelson responded: I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits … I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits … You,  sir, are clueless.

Across the west you’ll find varying compliance with grazing permits. Ditto logging laws and so on. I regularily volunteer to help with multi-agency state/federal fish surveys in eastern Oregon, and it is not uncommon to find cattle grazing well outside their permitted range. In one case we were surveying for bull trout in a remote backcountry area where grazing permits had been eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Some of the agency folks were suppose to followup on that discovery. Thomas Gilg

Response:

eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

I’m sure there are instances of illegal activity such as you described. However, from my experience, I don’t believe that these instances are "commonplace". — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

FISHING RELATED POST?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You never met a cattleman, period. —

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book.

Obviously, you’ve never spent any time in eastern Montana where a lot of grazing is done on BLM. I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits in our area come around to check grass conditions, number of cattle, water hole conditions, whether or not the ranchers are pulling there cows off public ground at the designated time, etc., etc., etc. I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits (and they should) for not following the stipulated conditions on their permit. This same scenario (the proper management of grazing permits) happens all across the American West on both National Forest System Lands and Bureau of Land Management lands. You,  sir, are clueless. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

|  What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all | livestock that steal their food and habitat. | | Why? | | Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the | Federal Economy. | | Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid | economics. | | George G. | | | | | | | When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | — That’s why I advocate using funds collected from grazing federal lands be used to induce ranchers to use land that has already been converted to farming.  I’d rather convert from arable to grazing land, than forest/prairie to grazing land ! I don’t accept that it’s a choice between cattle & tourists – it’s more of a choice between cattle & migrants. But if we convince ranchers to move East onto arable land, we come closer to both protecting our fragile environments AND providing beef at competitive prices (compared to Argentinean beef). P.S. I remember paying $9 a pound for beef in the UK – beef was one of the most expensive forms of meat. But now I pay $9 a pound for Stilton cheese instead (I paid $3-4 a pound for Stilton in the UK).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses.

That approach is far too thoughtful and intelligent for the hard core greenies to comprehend, let alone follow.

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose.

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G.

Response:

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past?

Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

What’s to do with FISHING anyways?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. What, are you suggesting that both ends are getting screwed by the large corporations in the middle? How un-American! Jon.

Response:

<When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

If it’s brown – you’re cooking it wrong !

| <When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | | What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

It’s "If it’s brown it’s down."  Food from grist for the mill. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If it’s brown – you’re cooking it wrong ! | <When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | | What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother.

christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Response:

I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother?

In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real cattleman, you’d change your tune. George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable to support their families.  Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your bread.  Don’t be such a twit. Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book. Jon

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east – sorry, can’t remember the exact state, possibly one of the Dakotas. The program talked about how more people are getting college education and moving away to city jobs, leaving rural life. As a result some farmers are converting their land back to prairie. What little I know of the Eastern states, I’d guess this is some pretty decent farm land being lost.  I also recently read about farm land in Wisconsin being converted back to forest. I know that here in the Southwest, we are enduring one of the worst droughts ever. Phoenix has had just 2.24 inches of rain this year, and may get no more rain until February or March. People are leaving the East and moving out West in huge numbers, and so people & agriculture are competing for many natural resources. So, it doesn’t sound so bad to me, when  "Hard-line environmentalists" are simply helping to maximize the reward to the taxpayers, from the business use of  Federal land. In a free market economy the cost for federal grazing rights should b e"all the market will bear". I know that there is an argument that this policy will reduce domestic beef production & increase imports. Well……perhaps we should consider the most efficient way this country feeds its’self. As a taxpayer and an eater, I want the cheapest (safe) beef I can get. This allows me to spend more of my income on other (US-made) products. It’s a tough life being a farmer. My grandfather was a successful farmer in England. He changed & correctly predicted the trends and made a profit – he didn’t need subsidies. He changed a farm that was widely diversified (sugarbeet, chickens, barley & milk, were just some of the products) to a farm that was specialized – he was one of the first in the area to see the demand for oil seed rape. As a farmer it doesn’t seem fair that a successful way of life is being changed. But all forms of business change over time – including farming.

|         www.sfgate.com        Return to regular view | In the old West, a tense showdown over federal lands | JIM CARLTON, The Wall Street Journal | Monday, November 11, 2002 |

Question:

Outstanding fishing around Glover’s Reef (Manta Resort only one there) – during the day schools of small bones hang around in the lagoons and assorted toothed guys on the open water- the coolest thing we did there was night fishing in the lagoon- nice tarpon come in about midnight and you spot fish them with a flashlight – their eyes glow big time – they’ll hit casting plugs(mirror lures and rattle traps) and flat tear up big  popper flies – hell of a thing about 2am to have a drink in one hand be hooked up with a 4-6 ft tarpon on a 10-12wt in the other Gary

For a real challenge, try that with an 8 weight… /daytripper (Not sure if waving goodbye is all that fun, though

Response:

Outstanding fishing around Glover’s Reef (Manta Resort only one there) – during the day schools of small bones hang around in the lagoons and assorted toothed guys on the open water- the coolest thing we did there was night fishing in the lagoon- nice tarpon come in about midnight and you spot fish them with a flashlight – their eyes glow big time – they’ll hit casting plugs(mirror lures and rattle traps) and flat tear up big  popper flies – hell of a thing about 2am to have a drink in one hand be hooked up with a 4-6 ft tarpon on a 10-12wt in the other Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Except for fishermen, and in particular, light tackle anglers and fly fishermen as well as divers, Belize, once known as British Honduras is the forgotten part of Central America. It is located just south of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula, to the east of Guatemala and is the only English speaking country in the region.. It’s chief claim to fame is that it has the longest barrier reef in the western hemisphere, and second in the world only to Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. This, along with the fact that over ninety percent of its islands are uninhabitable makes it a light tackle anglers idea of heaven. From the super clear waters along the reef, through its myriad clusters of mangrove islands into its jungle rivers, it has something for everybody. Want variety? You can expect to catch two dozen different species of fish in a weeks time, from bonefish, permit and tarpon to wahoo, sailfish, grouper and snapper. Want to specialize? Get out your ten weight fly rod and try for the elusive permit, or stalk massive schools of bonefish. How about tarpon? Where do you prefer to pursue them? In slow moving jungle rivers with the howler monkeys screaming at you or on wide open flats with your guide slowly bringing you within casting range? Belize has it all. Winter is just around the corner, and if you feel the need to spend some time catching fish without thinking about how many layers of clothing you need, Belize is just the place for you. Check it out at www.tropicalfishing.com/Belize.htm or give Capt Gene Kelly at Tropical Fishing Adventures a call at 800 280 5565.

Response:

While I don’t doubt your point, I can only say that about the ones I’ve seen… /daytripper (And Belize was the worst by far…)

I wish I could say Belize was the worst I have seen. But then I didn’t spend much time on the mainland there, where conditions are much worse than where I was. — Charlie…

Response:

But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty… You can say that about a *lot* of resorts around the world.

While I don’t doubt your point, I can only say that about the ones I’ve seen… /daytripper (And Belize was the worst by far…)

Response:

The last day when I left,  I gave them all the cash I could and still get home. It was one of the most emotional thing that has happened to me in my lifetime.

…now why am I not surprised that you would do that Bill? I always knew you wuz one of the good guys. Good on ya. Frank Church

Response:

But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty… You can say that about a *lot* of resorts around the world. — Charlie…

Hmm . . . this was certainly true in Thailand.  Went there 6 times from 94-98. ( northern part of the country) (always stayed at the rear of the hotel where I stayed most. . . wanted it quieter)  Behind the hotel was a small field and a series of "small" wood buildings.  Some of the employees "lived" in these.   Would see them starting fires in the morning to cook breakfast and at night for dinner.  There was one shower for all the families, outside, with a cloth curtain. . . no hot water . . . and one outhouse.   These are the folks that did all aspects of the hotel functions. The owners live in suites at the top of the hotel. . . think they took a whole floor . . . or even two.  (quite a few fancy houses around the hotel from the other side of the economy,  with people catering to all resident needs) But with many of the hotel employees, and "most" other people I worked with in Thailand, they were selfless.  (I wasn’t at one of the higher end hotels) I got invited to a number of family events and functions of the less fortunate in terms of money.  I was overwhelmed by the generosity of them to share whatever they had to share.  Interesting reflection, at least to me, saving "face" is important over in that area of the world.  Even if I wanted to say something to an employee, I have to be careful about the presentation, and who was present.  (maybe we, in other parts of the world, can learn a bit from that concept) Neat thing to get into if you get a chance to work, and share experiences, with the people in the country you visit. (Naturally, not something that can generally happen with a whirlwind trip. . . nor something to consider . . . in some countries. . . but you can certainly develop friendships.) Most profound thing I’ve seen in my small part in world travel is absolute affluency and poverty right next to each other.  (Hmm. . . seem to have that part between me and my rich neighbors also . . . wonder if I can borrow a Sage rod or a cup of sugar or something?  . . . something to check out . . . and I think those are cute doggies . . . big teeth . . probably just smiling alot ) Thanks for helping me reflect on the international part. . . and my ramblings. BestWishes, DaveMohnsen Denver ( have a soft part in my heart for most of the Thailand folks. . .but there are always a few in the other category . . . but YMMV)

Response:

Hi DT, You are very correct. I have fished from the tip of the MX Yucatan all the way to the end of Belize in about 20 trips and that is a very sad fact. Actually, the fishing guides are some of the most affluent people in the Caribbean. The smart ones buy property and build rentals that their wife runs while they guide tourists. Most of them actually just drink and smoke a lot more. I was on a small cay for a week out of Dangriga, Belize fishing at the Blue Horizon Lodge it’s first season. On the back side of the cay in the mangroves was a little shack and a little skinny family of  four and their skinny dog. They had an old boat that they were using to haul sacks of sand, coral and shells to backfill the new fishing camp for ~25 cents a sack. While we fished, they loaded sacks, stacked them on their old boat to almost sinking and brought them back to the camp where they poured them around the new cottages on stilts to bring up the new cleared land above sea level a bit. You can imagine the heat, humidity and bugs they endured, let along the idea of that hard of work. They were all very skinny and made me feel very sad. The last day when I left,  I gave them all the cash I could and still get home. It was one of the most emotional thing that has happened to me in my lifetime. This kind of life is common in many 3rd world countries. Be glad you and yours are here in America. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty…

Response:

But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty…

You can say that about a *lot* of resorts around the world. — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Except for fishermen, and in particular, light tackle anglers and fly fishermen as well as divers, Belize, once known as British Honduras is the forgotten part of Central America. It is located just south of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula, to the east of Guatemala and is the only English speaking country in the region.. It’s chief claim to fame is that it has the longest barrier reef in the western hemisphere, and second in the world only to Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. This, along with the fact that over ninety percent of its islands are uninhabitable makes it a light tackle anglers idea of heaven. From the super clear waters along the reef, through its myriad clusters of mangrove islands into its jungle rivers, it has something for everybody. Want variety? You can expect to catch two dozen different species of fish in a weeks time, from bonefish, permit and tarpon to wahoo, sailfish, grouper and snapper. Want to specialize? Get out your ten weight fly rod and try for the elusive permit, or stalk massive schools of bonefish. How about tarpon? Where do you prefer to pursue them? In slow moving jungle rivers with the howler monkeys screaming at you or on wide open flats with your guide slowly bringing you within casting range? Belize has it all. Winter is just around the corner, and if you feel the need to spend some time catching fish without thinking about how many layers of clothing you need, Belize is just the place for you. Check it out at www.tropicalfishing.com/Belize.htm or give Capt Gene Kelly at Tropical Fishing Adventures a call at 800 280 5565.

But don’t venture far from the "civilization" of the resort lest you stumble on the predominant gut-wrenching poverty…

Response:

Except for fishermen, and in particular, light tackle anglers and fly fishermen as well as divers, Belize, once known as British Honduras is the forgotten part of Central America. It is located just south of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula, to the east of Guatemala and is the only English speaking country in the region.. It’s chief claim to fame is that it has the longest barrier reef in the western hemisphere, and second in the world only to Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. This, along with the fact that over ninety percent of its islands are uninhabitable makes it a light tackle anglers idea of heaven. From the super clear waters along the reef, through its myriad clusters of mangrove islands into its jungle rivers, it has something for everybody. Want variety? You can expect to catch two dozen different species of fish in a weeks time, from bonefish, permit and tarpon to wahoo, sailfish, grouper and snapper. Want to specialize? Get out your ten weight fly rod and try for the elusive permit, or stalk massive schools of bonefish. How about tarpon? Where do you prefer to pursue them? In slow moving jungle rivers with the howler monkeys screaming at you or on wide open flats with your guide slowly bringing you within casting range? Belize has it all. Winter is just around the corner, and if you feel the need to spend some time catching fish without thinking about how many layers of clothing you need, Belize is just the place for you. Check it out at www.tropicalfishing.com/Belize.htm or give Capt Gene Kelly at Tropical Fishing Adventures a call at 800 280 5565.

Response:

Question:

Frank Reid writes: 2nd week of June for me too.

Are you going to drive up, Frank? Dave

Response:

Don’t know.  Was thinking of taking the fast train to Boston and a bus to the stop near your house.  That would save me 11 hours on the road. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. .

Response:

2nd week of June for me too. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Peter Charles writes: I’ll give her a ring tomorrow.  2nd week of June sounds right for us – will Jo be there then?

Well, we planned on her going the first week.  We have Angler’s cabin (by the water).  So, if you could make it then, so much the better. Some days that woman knows how to twist the knife.  

Hey, she’s   taken some lessons from the Pirate, dontchaknow? Dave

Response:

[sounds like a bit of tough sledding but even so – it’s Lakewood so who cares, eh? For all you folks planning on going to Lakewood in June:  I have made reservations for the first, second, and fourth weeks.  There was some talk about having a non-clave gathering – Peter, wayno, Jeff, et al.  If youse guys are serious about it, better call Maureen at 207-243-2959.   You’ll need to send her a deposit.  Also, Frank Reid – pick a time.  How about 3rd week?  Or, whenever. Gotta go fix dinner.  What a drag……. Dave

I’ll give her a ring tomorrow.  2nd week of June sounds right for us – will Jo be there then? Suzie labouriously looked through her datebook to see if she was ‘otherwise occupied"  then with a whoop, she announced that she was free those weeks because *she* was retired!!  Some days that woman knows how to twist the knife.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I’m glad your friend liked my rod, Dave.  I am fixing to build one for myself that is a copy of yours, I liked how that taper cast so much. I took a terrific vacation with a couple friends in Alberta and British Columbia a couple weeks ago.  The fishing and the scenery was how you would imagine it being in Heaven.  I fished bamboo almost exclusively the whole while I was out there, using an 8 1/2 foot 6 weight I made for a friend who kindly let me use the rod on that trip.  One of our guides eyed the rod as we loaded up the drift boat in the morning.  He made a vary tactful but mistrustful remark about it, saying,"You know, there are bull trout in here envisioned cane splinters flying should I hang a hog.  I assured him that the rod – against my pleading – had been used to land chinook salmon by its owner, so I din’t forsee any problems on this trip.  I was happy with the 6 weight’s performance.  We had a good dose of that western wind I have read so much about.  I did fine by waiting in between gusts and firing a cast out there.  I landed a 2 foot long bull trout on that drift.  It was considered small by the locals, but the thrill of getting my first bull wasn’t small. It looked and acted like a giant brook trout while I reeled it in. It will be a long wait until we all get to go back there next year, I’m telling you! Pete

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Thanks for the report, Dave.  Sounds like a nice time.  How many folks are out there on the river this time of year? Pete Collin

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Peter Collin writes: How many folks are out there on the river this time of year?

Lots.  There were 11 Lakewood guests fishing (and about 12 kids/wives who weren’t), plus some folks boated in on Sat and Sun. BTW, I let my friend try the rod.  He fell for it.  His wife wants to buy him a boo rod for Christmas/birthday, but he’s always said no.  But after trying your’s, he is sold on it. He was surprised when he found out that it was not as slow as he thought bamboo would be.  <g Dave

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Got in this afternoon after four days at Lakewood.  River was running at 800 cfs, ideal for wading and fishing.   First thing I did was to find out the river temps.  Down-stream it was 74 at 2nd Current, and a very warm 75 at Lower Dam.  I checked out Upper and found it to be 71 at 6 a.m., and it worked up to 74 around noon.  So, it was fishing early and up-river.  My friend Bob McDonald and I hit the dam and immediately got into some small (10-12 inch) salmon.  We were both fishing the same pattern – LaFontaine Caddis Emerger.  Bob was fishing it dry and I fished it as a nymph.  They weren’t fussy – they liked it either way.  We both caught some nice 14+ inch salmon, feisty as hell.  We played them short because of the temps. I called Dave Bottom Saturday night and told him about the noon/afternoon water temps down-river, and we agreed it best if he not make the trip and the walk-in.  We’ll meet up in October and fish the Kennebec at East Outlet. Both Sunday and Monday were the same – warm, humid, and the fish hitting consistantly only on the LaFontain pattern.  I hate to tie that pattern, and since I was running short, I tried other patterns.  No deal!  They wanted only the emerger pattern.  Bob left after lunch on Sunday and knowing I was running short of that fly graciously gave me five from his box – he’s a better tier than I.   Monday night/early Tuesday morning a much needed rain came through. I love it when it rains at Lakewood; the cabin is warm (if you’ve made a fire!), and you can hear every drop on the roof.  Wonderful sleeping.   When I awoke at 5:30, it was cool with just a sprinkle coming down.  After a quick cup of coffee from my thermos and letting Henry out to take a leak, I hit the dam.  Absolutely beautiful in the mist of early morning.  I took up station at Zimmerman’s Run, so named because roff’s very own Steve Zimmerman fished it for three straight days without taking a leak, dump, or eating/sleeping.  <G  First cast produced a small salmon, but it got better with the next fish, a respectable 14 incher. I returned after a great breakfast, and fished this run and two or three other feeding lines accessable from the rocks.  I continued to catch some nice landlocks and a 15 inch brookie.  When the sun came out at 10 a.m., fishing ceased!  I took one more salmon before returning to camp for lunch.  I don’t know what put them down. The sun?  It was bright from Sat – Mon.   After a terrific lunch and a much needed nap, I returned to the dam around 4 p.m. and fished until 6.  Fishing was great, but the catching was scarce.   I spoke to some camp guests who had been fishing down-stream both Mon and Tues, and the only thing they caught were *bass* and yellow perch at both the 2nd Current and Lower Dam.  They killed them per posted instructions from Maine F & G.   The lake level is down 4 feet from full.  Input from Upper Dam is 220 cfs (their minimum flow), while Middle Dam is 800 cfs.  It doesn’t take a math major to see that the lake will be empty come September if they don’t get rain or change the flows. For all you folks planning on going to Lakewood in June:  I have made reservations for the first, second, and fourth weeks.  There was some talk about having a non-clave gathering – Peter, wayno, Jeff, et al.  If youse guys are serious about it, better call Maureen at 207-243-2959.   You’ll need to send her a deposit.  Also, Frank Reid – pick a time.  How about 3rd week?  Or, whenever. Gotta go fix dinner.  What a drag……. Dave .  

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Question:

Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

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August is the slow period on Fall River.   Much better in the spring or fall. The highlight for many is the hex hatch usually in June.  Call Ray at Shasta Angler in Fall River Mills for recommended guides. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

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Hi All, I would recommend June and October for the Fall River in northern California. Go to the High Country, Montana or Alaska in August.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

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Hi All, I would recommend June and October for the Fall River in northern California. Go to the High Country, Montana or Alaska in August. Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

Hi Bill, Good advice again.  I know he may be able to book with Doug Swisher at that time when he is in Hamilton, Montana.  There are ready made guided trips on the Big Horn and of course the Yellowstone area can be fished in the park on one’s own.  High Country fishing can be a hit or bust situation and of course hitting the right lake at exactly the right time can be chancy.  High altitude lakes differ in climate at those elevations from spot to spot, it seems more often then not.  Some of those gin clear waters are difficult to fish and they seem to spook more easily then in the lower rivers. Anyhow, there are other western states such as Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, and Washington that have guided trips.  The national parks do not require guides but it helps.   How is the fly tying going Bill?  Did you get any memorable fishing in the last century? George — http://www.gink.com/chat

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Any other options than Rick’s Lodge to fish Fall River?

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Question:

I am looking for a copy of Fly Rod and Reel Magazine – The May / June Issue. If anyone has it, and can scan the article written by the PETA President about the future of Fly Fishing. I have heard about the article and would like to read it. Thanks, Mike

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I am looking for a copy of Fly Rod and Reel Magazine – The May / June Issue.

I wouldn’t believe anything I read in Fly Rod & Reel magazine. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I am looking for a copy of Fly Rod and Reel Magazine – The May / June Issue. If anyone has it, and can scan the article written by the PETA President about the future of Fly Fishing. I have heard about the article and would like to read it.

… as if anyone cares – their predictions of the future would be as reliable as T-Bone’s. RalphH

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[deleted] I wouldn’t believe anything I read in Fly Rod & Reel magazine.

The advertisements are real. I pinched myself and they were still there. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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I am looking for a copy of Fly Rod and Reel Magazine – The May / June Issue. If anyone has it, and can scan the article written by the PETA President about the future of Fly Fishing. I have heard about the article and would like to read it.

It was not an article, it was a couple of paragraphs embedded in several other commentaries. Do not have a scanner sorry but try sending an email to Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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Question:

Without question, the greatest challenge in saltwater fly-fishing is the casting. To achieve consistent success, fly-fishers must be able to deliver a fly in excess of 50 feet–and usually they must be able to do this in the wind. Although there are a number of fly-casting tapes on the market, Saltwater Fly-Casting: 10 Steps to Distance and Power is the first video fly-casting program available: a detailed overview of the mechanics of distance fly-casting, coupled with a step-by-step practice program viewers can use to become more effective fly-casters. The program focuses on the specific needs of saltwater anglers, but is of value to all fly-fishers who wish to add distance and power to their casts. Hosted by George V. Roberts Jr., author of A Fly-Fisher

Question:

Yeah Richard.  Would love to lend any help I can.  I know that last year you guys launched from Hickory Creek (Springdale) and that Gerald caught most of his winning day bass down river.  I know he got a few off the hwy 12 bridge each day but I am afraid the lake is much different from when you guys saw it last year.  We desperately need rain to get the lake level back up.  We had a good rain last weekend and more is forecasted this weekend.  So hopefully by april when you guys get up here it will be up somewhat.  I will keep you posted around that time.   I generally launch from Hickory Creek and am more familiar down stream than up.  I generally fish everything below Horseshoe Bend but I will be exploring more this year. be nice to have someone to cheer for during the tournament.  I will help you with directions maps and anything else I can. BAZZMAN

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<snip   I generally launch from Hickory Creek and am more familiar down stream than up.  I generally fish everything below Horseshoe Bend but I will be exploring more this year.

Hey BAZZMAN: Stop and give me a howdy the next time you’re fishing down towards Eden Bluff on Beaver (just south of Monte Ne, near Three Fingers Cove…I’m the guy fly fishing for bass and stripers from my skiff…you’ve probably seen me a million times.  My dock is right before the entrance to Three Fingers. I enjoy reading your posts….you could probably teach me a thing or two about spawning bass this Spring…..see ya’ Greg Hardig

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Speaking of excellent winter day on the lake.  I was fishing Beaver Lake in Springdale Arkanasas on Wednesday.  Monday it was a record high 75 and Tuesday was also high at 72 degrees.  I went out Wednesday and chose to stay in the lower White River end of the lake.  I was flipping and pitching black jig and pigs in the nastiest pockets I could find.  It seemed like the more crap that had washed in there from the terential rains on Saturday the better.  I caught bass to 4 pounds and ended up catching 10 in the 4 hours I was on the water.  I cant believe I had such an awesome day in early February.  Fishing usually sucks until March on Beaver. BAZZMAN…

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Speaking of excellent winter day on the lake.  I was fishing Beaver Lake in Springdale Arkanasas on Wednesday.  Monday it was a record high 75 and Tuesday was also high at 72 degrees.  I went out Wednesday and chose to stay in the lower White River end of the lake.  I was flipping and pitching black jig and pigs in the nastiest pockets I could find.  It seemed like the more crap that had washed in there from the terential rains on Saturday the better.  I caught bass to 4 pounds and ended up catching 10 in the 4 hours I was on the water.  I cant believe I had such an awesome day in early February.  Fishing usually sucks until March on Beaver.

Glad to hear you had a great time on Beaver. I am not familiar with springdale but if you are talking the same lake I fished last April it was up in the N.W. corner of the state. If we are talking of the same lake keep an eye on her as I have an FLW on her in April. Would appreciate any help. Good fishing, Richard L. LaFay | (248) 753-6940 (work) 2887 Pontiac Court  | (248) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   48326 Ranger Boats, Lowrance Electronics, Berkley Trilene, Rippler, and Bill Norman Lures. I use them because I think they’re the best!

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The unusally warm weather has been great for fishing in Alabama too.  I caught 17 bass in about 5 hours on Lake Guntersville last Wednesday.  Although there was a 13′4” weighted in the previous Saturday at the Waterfront Grocery where I put in,  most of the fish I caught were between 12 and 14 inches (non-keepers on Guntersville).  But I catch and release anyway and a bass is a bass.  Water temp was in the mid to upper 50’s.  It’s typical for the largest bass of the season to be caught in February on Guntersville. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking of excellent winter day on the lake.  I was fishing Beaver Lake in Springdale Arkanasas on Wednesday.  Monday it was a record high 75 and Tuesday was also high at 72 degrees.  I went out Wednesday and chose to stay in the lower White River end of the lake.  I was flipping and pitching black jig and pigs in the nastiest pockets I could find.  It seemed like the more crap that had washed in there from the terential rains on Saturday the better.  I caught bass to 4 pounds and ended up catching 10 in the 4 hours I was on the water.  I cant believe I had such an awesome day in early February.  Fishing usually sucks until March on Beaver. Glad to hear you had a great time on Beaver. I am not familiar with springdale but if you are talking the same lake I fished last April it was up in the N.W. corner of the state. If we are talking of the same lake keep an eye on her as I have an FLW on her in April. Would appreciate any help. Good fishing, Richard L. LaFay | (248) 753-6940 (work) 2887 Pontiac Court  | (248) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   48326 Ranger Boats, Lowrance Electronics, Berkley Trilene, Rippler, and Bill Norman Lures. I use them because I think they’re the best!

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Question:

It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and terrestials? The other part of the subject line refers to a book I just read.  The author is a guy named Lietz that used to produce T.V. commercials before becoming an author and moving to a small town in Vermont.  He has written two mysteries that are centered around a Flyfishing resort in Vermont.   "Dying To Flyfish" is both a good mystery and a pretty good book about flyfishing as well.  Check it out. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fishing is limited to 2 fish over 14 and less then 16 inches. Fishing is permitted only when the water temperature is less then 70 degrees. I was going to add: Fishing by special use permit only between may and august ? And would consider: Closed during November/December (Browns ?) Take some work, but it would be worth it. TimW Tim, I generally don’t pay too much attention to your rants, but It seems that you probably hit the nail on the head here.

He does make an interesting suggestion, that is, the use of special user permits.  In order to even enter many wilderness areas a "wilderness permit" must be aquired (though I’ve yet to see any enforcement of this personally).  One of the goals is to be able to track someone down if they somehow got lost or injured but in many places they also serve as a quota system.  Wouldn’t the use of a similar quota system, and enforcing it, such that a limited number of anglers are allowed on wild streams (along with enforced slot limits) result in a similar reduction of the impact on these resources? — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Battenkill sucks…*you* can fish the catch and release section if you like…if you enjoy catching the occasional 8" trout….30 years ago before the tubbers, and the canoeist…before the live bait fisherman hauled the larger breeder fish out of the river…the Battenkill was a pretty spectaculer river…back then my dad and I fished the river quite a bit…after a warm summer rain if you knew how to fish streamers, or bucktails it would not be unusual to catch a 3 or 4 pound brown or two…evennings, rising trout were plentiful…ah well…if people had the guts to do what needs to be done the fishing got come back…but no one will stand up to the "local experts" and put some serious catch limits on the river…no one will shutdown the two operations that put 50 or 60 canoes on the river every summer day…this kind of pressure, low water and warm water temps. stresses fish…it’s sad to see a "classic" stream like the ‘kill abused and deprived of it’s fish. Tough, tough multi-use call… I wonder about your assessment that the canoers really change the fish counts ? I honestly do not know the answer. Low/Warm water ? Better not have ANY C&R regs here.  Really pulling one out of the butt, I’ll take a stab at a set of regs for the Kill. Fishing is limited to 2 fish over 14 and less then 16 inches. Fishing is permitted only when the water temperature is less then 70 degrees. I was going to add: Fishing by special use permit only between may and august ? And would consider: Closed during November/December (Browns ?) Take some work, but it would be worth it. TimW

Tim, I generally don’t pay too much attention to your rants, but It seems that you probably hit the nail on the head here. Randy

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John,  THE largest hatch on the Kill’ at this time of year is the Grumman hatch …sorry to say, the Mettawee is nice.  Early & late is correct for the Battenkill, Isonychias, Tricos, BW Olives….but there is one reason NOT to pass up the Kill’ ..the browns can be literally Anywhere..IN the current, OUT of the current..in some dark secluded pocket(many on the stream…) the river is loaded with pockets/undercut banks..although not readily noticeable at first.  The Battenkill in Vermont is more of a stream…and slowly becomes more of a river once in NY, so you also have somewhat of a choice of what size water you want to fish. steve d.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Battenkill sucks…*you* can fish the catch and release section if you like…if you enjoy catching the occasional 8" trout….30 years ago before the tubbers, and the canoeist…before the live bait fisherman hauled the larger breeder fish out of the river…the Battenkill was a pretty spectaculer river…back then my dad and I fished the river quite a bit…after a warm summer rain if you knew how to fish streamers, or bucktails it would not be unusual to catch a 3 or 4 pound brown or two…evennings, rising trout were plentiful…ah well…if people had the guts to do what needs to be done the fishing got come back…but no one will stand up to the "local experts" and put some serious catch limits on the river…no one will shutdown the two operations that put 50 or 60 canoes on the river every summer day…this kind of pressure, low water and warm water temps. stresses fish…it’s sad to see a "classic" stream like the ‘kill abused and deprived of it’s fish.

Tough, tough multi-use call… I wonder about your assessment that the canoers really change the fish counts ? I honestly do not know the answer. Low/Warm water ? Better not have ANY C&R regs here.  Really pulling one out of the butt, I’ll take a stab at a set of regs for the Kill. Fishing is limited to 2 fish over 14 and less then 16 inches. Fishing is permitted only when the water temperature is less then 70 degrees. I was going to add: Fishing by special use permit only between may and august ? And would consider: Closed during November/December (Browns ?) Take some work, but it would be worth it. TimW

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The Battenkill sucks…*you* can fish the catch and release section if you like…if you enjoy catching the occasional 8" trout….30 years ago before the tubbers, and the canoeist…before the live bait fisherman hauled the larger breeder fish out of the river…the Battenkill was a pretty spectaculer river…back then my dad and I fished the river quite a bit…after a warm summer rain if you knew how to fish streamers, or bucktails it would not be unusual to catch a 3 or 4 pound brown or two…evennings, rising trout were plentiful…ah well…if people had the guts to do what needs to be done the fishing got come back…but no one will stand up to the "local experts" and put some serious catch limits on the river…no one will shutdown the two operations that put 50 or 60 canoes on the river every summer day…this kind of pressure, low water and warm water temps. stresses fish…it’s sad to see a "classic" stream like the ‘kill abused and deprived of it’s fish. cds

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writes: It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and

terrestials? John, The obvious place is the Battenkill, probably the most famous place to fish in the NE.  Check out the orvis store there, they also have a fly-fishing/cathrelease only area that probably has some good fishing. THe folks there are quite nice and helpful. Mac

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John, I would avoid the Battenkill – overrated. Try the Mettawee.  White Mayflies, Caddis and caddis pupa.  Terrestrials are still a viable option.  I do not mean to get down on the Battenkill, but unless you are there very early or very late it will be a parade of canoes and float tubes. There are some good "holes" but you would need a guide.  I do not say this because I am a guide because I do not guide the Battenkill.  I say it because I have fished the Battenkill extensively in the past.  Enjoy your trip and let me know if you need more help. Cheers, James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service LIC#2298 Underhill, VT

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It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and terrestials? John, I was there last weekend 8/16, we fished the Ottaquichee up north

of Ludlow VT.  The Battenkill is best on the NY side (5 or 6 miles from MAnchester), and only before 10 am or after 7 pm when the float tubers and kyackers are not on the water.  This was the advice from the guys at Orvis – and it proved correct.  PMD’s, sulphers and tricos were the recommended and used patterns, and adams worked well too. jg

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REMEMBER Eddie Murphy ! Don’t Get MURPHED ! Go Fishing !!! TimW

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It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and terrestials? John, I was there last weekend 8/16, we fished the Ottaquichee up north of Ludlow VT.  The Battenkill is best on the NY side (5 or 6 miles from MAnchester), and only before 10 am or after 7 pm when the float tubers and kyackers are not on the water.  This was the advice from the guys at Orvis – and it proved correct.  PMD’s, sulphers and tricos were the recommended and used patterns, and adams worked well too.

Okay, but what size?  Size *is* important in this case. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Question:

I’ve got the good luck to have 4-days near Evergreen CO in early August and am looking for suggestions on streams to stalk, catch and release. Don’t mind walking in a bit and I don’t need big name water or 18" fish to have fun – although 18" fish are… Anything within a reasonable 2-hour drive?  Thanks and let me know how to reciprocate for Wisconsin, if I can.

Response:

The local fly shop in Evergreen is the Blue Quill Angler.  Same folks that run the Orvis Colorado Fly Fishing school, Rick Rishell runs it and his number 800-235-9763.  They would give you a very good idea as to what is going on there.  Bear Creek right in town was aggressively cleaned up and improved by the local TU chapter.  Behind the Amoco gas station a few years ago I caught a 18" rainbow.  Clear Creek along I-70 is pretty good too at Georgetown, that’s just up the road a few miles.  Those are great after work areas.  The South Platte river at Deckers is close to for a serious session of lots of fish.  Stop in at the fly shop in Deckers (Motel, gas pump, cafe/bar and fly shop setup, it is the town) and get the info on the current flies.  You can go North to Hot Sulphur Springs and hit the Colorado, great time of year for the Colorado.  Evergreen is a great place to get to lots of the famous gold medal water but the little streams right around town are really fun.  LOTS of water this year. — Ken Rupkalvis, THE Republic of Texas

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got the good luck to have 4-days near Evergreen CO in early August and am looking for suggestions on streams to stalk, catch and release. Don’t mind walking in a bit and I don’t need big name water or 18" fish to have fun – although 18" fish are… Anything within a reasonable 2-hour drive?  Thanks and let me know how to reciprocate for Wisconsin, if I can.

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Question:

Recently returned from a guided tour with Dennis of Trout Creek Flies. Had a great time. Caught several 20 inchers and a total of 50+fish. I highly recommend this guide as he knows all the hot spots in the river. Lunch was great too!! larry and darlene

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently returned from a guided tour with Dennis of Trout Creek Flies. Had a great time. Caught several 20 inchers and a total of 50+fish. I highly recommend this guide as he knows all the hot spots in the river. Lunch was great too!! larry and darlene How much does Dennis charge for a guide trip? Mark    

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Path: news.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!library.erc.clarkson.ed u!ub!csn!news.usafa.af.mil!dfyc16.usafa.af.mil!GLIVINSKIDK%DFYC Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: United States Air Force Academy Lines: 11 Distribution: USA NNTP-Posting-Host: dfyc16.usafa.af.mil Summary: big fish Keywords: trout,fly fishing Recently returned from a guided tour with Dennis of Trout Creek Flies. Had a great time. Caught several 20 inchers and a total of 50+fish. I highly recommend this guide as he knows all the hot spots in the river. Lunch was great too!! larry and darlene How much does Dennis charge for a guide trip? Mark    

I was at the Green for few days around March 20.  I arranged a trip through Dennis (Trout Creek Flies).  It cost $240, but that was the low season price – $275 is the standard price (April 1 – ?).  I stayed at the Flaming Gorge Lodge (arrnged by Denni) and noticed that they had wading guides available as well, and if you are looking to save $, it’s cheaper and the wading was great at that time (very low water).  The fishing was great too… Anthony

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