Question:

This last weekend I was out fishing (float tubing) on a high altitude lake with a chilly wind (about 30mph and 38oF). The lake was white capping with 1-3 waves.  The water temp was 38o-40oF and I was out for 3 and half hours straight.  Came in when it got dark. I got quite a work out but it was kind of fun. Got some strikes and hook ups in the process. I was a bit exhausted and cold when I came in but all-in-all in pretty good shape.  I was dressed for the weather even though the wind and the cold water started to creep in after awhile.  I was with friends so they knew where I was at. More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, raining, or wind blowing hard.  I don’t mess with lightning.  The occasional nice day is usually when the fishing is slow.  Some people say I’m nuts.  I’ve read stories where that kind of fishing kind of normal for fly fishers.  I don’t (in my mind) take unnecessary risks. Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions? Eric

Response:

be sure to know the symptoms of hypothermia Not a fishing story, but, I was duck hunting on the Chesapeake Bay and "felt fine"  I "wasn’t even cold anymore" the two guys that found me say  I was randomly moving decoys and my walking was very wobbly, my speech badly slurred, yet I still "argued" that I was just fine they forced me into a hut and got me warmed They told me a little about the dangers and after I read up, I realized they had saved my life …. I was probably minutes from collapse I’m nearly 40 years older now and don’t find the cold as much fun,  but I’m very aware of shivers, numbness and such. go out, damn right, but be careful and keep a clear margin of safety….. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

another one<g … this time the San Francisco Bay we went out of Alviso and got caught in a very powerful storm when we got back to the dock, I could NOT work the keys to open my car Thank god a guy drove up "checking on his boat in the Marina" and helped me get the car open and started and pull my buddy out of the boat ( he could get out under own power ) we left boat, motor, decoys, guns and all and went to Fremont for coffee and food it was all there when we got back, but we were VERY aware that we had been one small problem from losing everything … a stalled outboard would have killed us —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

was supposed to be get the car open and started and pull my buddy out of the boat ( he couldn’t get out under own power )

the waves and wind had filled his waders, he was too cold to get them off, alone  I had taken mine off when they were about half full, and a sinking boat seemed very likely.  I remember telling him why I was taking mine off and saying  "if this boat goes down, you won’t want them on"

Response:

Eric: Lately it seems like the "nastier" the conditions, the more I enjoy it. First of all, it does cut down on the crowds. Second, if you are prepared for it with the right gear (and the gear keeps getting better all the time), even "nasty" conditions aren’t too bad, within reason. I guess the key is that "within reason" thing.  And I have indeed caught my biggest fish in what I used to consider nasty conditions. Finally, biting insects are not a problem! A guide once told me "There is no such thing as "bad conditions", there is just "bad gear". Preparation and common sense are paramount. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This last weekend I was out fishing (float tubing) on a high altitude lake with a chilly wind (about 30mph and 38oF). The lake was white capping with 1-3 waves.  The water temp was 38o-40oF and I was out for 3 and half hours straight.  Came in when it got dark. I got quite a work out but it was kind of fun. Got some strikes and hook ups in the process. I was a bit exhausted and cold when I came in but all-in-all in pretty good shape.  I was dressed for the weather even though the wind and the cold water started to creep in after awhile.  I was with friends so they knew where I was at. More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, raining, or wind blowing hard.  I don’t mess with lightning.  The occasional nice day is usually when the fishing is slow.  Some people say I’m nuts.  I’ve read stories where that kind of fishing kind of normal for fly fishers.  I don’t (in my mind) take unnecessary risks. Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions? Eric

Response:

I leave out words too so I knew what you meant. I might have had a mild case of hypothermia.  I was a little dizzy and disoriented when I got out of the water but I thought was from bobbing around like cork for three hours.  Also, the wind was down about 10mph and the temp about 35o. It gets cold at sunset in the mountains.  Even though I have neoprene waders the wind on those wet waders made it feel bitter cold. The two things that crossed my mind that would have been a major bummer.  1) The main bladder of my float tube fail and 2) get broadside into the wind in a big wave and get flipped. For number 2, I kept my tube about 45 degrees into the wind so I wouldn’t capsize.  The other thing I found was that I could actually fin into the wind and go somewhere that way.  The wind was too strong to try kick straight into it.  I kind of zig-zagged like a sailboat does.  I had to go back across a cove against the wind to get out of the water.   was supposed to be   get the car open and started and pull my buddy out of the boat ( he couldn’t   get out under own power )     the waves and wind had filled his waders, he was too cold to get them off, alone    I had taken mine off when they were about half full, and a sinking boat seemed very likely.  I remember telling him why I was taking mine off and saying  "if this boat goes down, you won’t want them on"

Response:

I wear an CO2 inflatable vest or carry a regular life vest from my big boat, depending on conditions.   And, I don’t feel a bit "wimpy" doing so. Another "not fishing" story.   I train retrievers for field trials, and such.   One summer day a client was working his dog and I wanted to plant a "blind retrieve" for the animal.   I figured I’d go out 30 feet from shore and prop the dummy on a branch of a submerged tree, then run the dog from the other side of the lake.   So wearing blue jeans and a summer shirt I swam out the 30 feet and started back …. tell you what I BARELY made it …. those jeans soaked up water and I could just, …just … stay above the surface enough to breath.   I remember thinking, "F–k, I’m going to drown within 15 feet of shore, in sight of a dozen people."    Next summer try to swim a pool wearing soaked cold weather gear, it will open you eyes, I bet.

Response:

Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions?

Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once. It got REAL interesting when 2′ to 3′ diameter Doug Fir started dropping into the river. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Ain’t no gear to protect ya from that Brian.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, raining, or wind blowing hard.  I don’t mess with lightning.  The occasional nice day is usually when the fishing is slow.  Some people say I’m nuts.  I’ve read stories where that kind of fishing kind of normal for fly fishers.  I don’t (in my mind) take unnecessary risks.

The hardest conditions make the most enduring memories. Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions?

Last year I packed my float tube to a high lake in mid October. There was about 6" of snow that obiterated the "trail" (to use the term loosely), so I just followed my dogs through and over and under the downed timber, hoping for the best. The fresh snow was magical. I thought it meant fair weather, but a front moved in. By the time I reached the lake it was well below freezing, and the lake, which I’d never seen before, looked like an off-color POS. I was so cold that I had to build a fire, which took a couple of hours. After fortifying myself around the fire with some coffee, whiskey, M&Ms, and maybe one or two other substances, I put on my waders, blew up the float tube, rigged my rod, put on my fins, and set out for the drop off below the rock face near the inlet. Maybe another hour. It was the hottest lake fishing I’ve ever had, but I could only stand to be in the water for 45 minutes. Ice shelves were accreting along the shore. Then I had a two-hour hike back to the "trail" head, into a stiff wind. Great trip.

Response:

Eric More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, Eric raining, or wind blowing hard. I like that too, as long as I’m fishing in a place where a warm cabin is waiting for me at the end of the day. Makes you feel like you’re *really* alive. But if I’m staying in a tent, forget it. Gearwise, one of the worst things you can have is a pair of too small boots. My previous boots were too small for winter fishing. On the last day of the Baltic clave, I was fishing really hard (had not caught any fish, damn Marcel had picked them all up under our noses). Anyway, I was standing in the 5C (41F) water in the Baltic sea for hours. When I decided to quit, I couldn’t feel my feet anymore. They really had an out of body -experience, no tactile sense left whatsoever. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once.

It sounds like that’s a once in a lifetime type of experience.  I work for an electric utility and I’ve seen what microbursts can do to wood poles.  I can imagine what it would be like in the forest.

Response:

Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once. It sounds like that’s a once in a lifetime type of experience.  I work for an electric utility and I’ve seen what microbursts can do to wood poles. I can imagine what it would be like in the forest.

I pulled the photo and related newspaper article about this incident and put them on my website. There is a link to "Rock Creek Microburst". It will give an idea of what kind of damage it did. Be warned that my scans of the newspaper clippings are not great and seem to be rather large so the page may load slow. Anyone have any tips for scanning/posting these? — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once. It sounds like that’s a once in a lifetime type of experience.  I work for an electric utility and I’ve seen what microbursts can do to wood poles. I can imagine what it would be like in the forest. I pulled the photo and related newspaper article about this incident and put them on my website. There is a link to "Rock Creek Microburst". It will give an idea of what kind of damage it did. Be warned that my scans of the newspaper clippings are not great and seem to be rather large so the page may load slow. Anyone have any tips for scanning/posting these?

Phbbtt! A mere bagatelle Took all of three seconds to load the full page (I love broadband!!) I stick a sheet of flat black paper behind newsprint when scanning, it greatly reduces that "bleed through" effect from the reverse side print. Aside from that, it’s hard to get around that artifacting when the compression is set so high. /daytripper

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Question:

I know this isn’t the right group to post this on, but I’m too impatient to go through the hassle of subscribing to another newsgroup just for one (for now) question.  And a lot of you do regreational flying, so might be more familiar with this issue. I have read FAR 73 here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr73_00.html and cannot find where it describes, specifies, or even implies what sorts of areas are restricted or prohibited.  Am I missing something? This came up in a discussion at work on fishing remote lakes.  The fisherman in question thinks it’s illegal to fly in to certain remote lakes, say in designated wilderness areas, wildlife refuges, National parks, etc.  I think he’s right, but where can I see what specifically is allowed, and what areas specifically are restricted or prohibited? David

Response:

That information is depicted graphically on the aviation charts, and temporary restrictions are published in the NOTAMS (notices to airmen). Best regards, Rob Housman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this isn’t the right group to post this on, but I’m too impatient to go through the hassle of subscribing to another newsgroup just for one (for now) question.  And a lot of you do regreational flying, so might be more familiar with this issue. I have read FAR 73 here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr73_00.html and cannot find where it describes, specifies, or even implies what sorts of areas are restricted or prohibited.  Am I missing something? This came up in a discussion at work on fishing remote lakes.  The fisherman in question thinks it’s illegal to fly in to certain remote lakes, say in designated wilderness areas, wildlife refuges, National parks, etc.  I think he’s right, but where can I see what specifically is allowed, and what areas specifically are restricted or prohibited? David

Response:

Check with the manageing agency for the area you want to fly into.  The BLM, Forest Service, etc.  These governmental agencies set the regs for use within their holdings.  I don’t think the FAA has an interest in your question. To partially answer though, no motorized vehicles or even bicycles are allowed in designated USFS wilderness areas.  This would include aircraft landing or taking off.  Some refuges are restricted, some aren’t, an example being some located in Alaska.  Anyway, for specific restrictions, check with the managment.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this isn’t the right group to post this on, but I’m too impatient to go through the hassle of subscribing to another newsgroup just for one (for now) question.  And a lot of you do regreational flying, so might be more familiar with this issue. I have read FAR 73 here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr73_00.html and cannot find where it describes, specifies, or even implies what sorts of areas are restricted or prohibited.  Am I missing something? This came up in a discussion at work on fishing remote lakes.  The fisherman in question thinks it’s illegal to fly in to certain remote lakes, say in designated wilderness areas, wildlife refuges, National parks, etc.  I think he’s right, but where can I see what specifically is allowed, and what areas specifically are restricted or prohibited? David

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Question:

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h

        i’ll be damned if i don’t think i see some tar heel in you goddam cowboys!  good thinkin, and good talkin, bruce! your friend in the old north state wayno

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<snipped I’ll get tying some up for us. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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It is working again.

thanks warren, i thought i’d done something miraculous when the treads started coming up readable again. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now.

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up.

i’m not sure but i think they’re slightly larger.  use a tiemco 2488 size 24 and grey thread.  black thread for the rib and a crystal flash emerger wing.  black thread head. i bet we just see continued hatches of those tiny black midges, but who knows. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it.

   I can’t get anything on the web today, just e-mail and newsgroups. Do you think Al Gore got so mad he turned off the internet?

Response:

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long.

I have some black midges that I tied for the Green earlier this year. I’ll remember to bring them for this trip. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though.

Almost sounds like a Grey RS2.  What size? and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib.

Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Are they the tiny little black midges?

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though. and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

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<excellent scouting report snipped

Bruce, Thanks for the report. I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it. I’m hoping this spell of good weather we’re having lasts for the Juan get together. Willi

Response:

Willi, I did not get the original post either.   Bruce, Awesome report. Thanks for the selfless act of doing some recon for our benefit. I am sure the other fellow clavers thank you as well. You said people were using dry flies.  Are they the tiny little black midges? bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

<excellent scouting report snipped 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name).

It is working again.  They were doing some maintenence on Deja and that was why it pulled up the weird format for the newsgroups.  When it puts a ‘*’ in the search section it means they are doing some work on the system. always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders.

There is a product called Simmseal (sp?) that works wonders for leaky neoprenes.  It is a liquid neoprene and you just pour a drop on the leak, spread it around a little and let it set.  Very easy fix once you find the leak. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now. — Warren Before you buy.

Response:

I made it up to the SJ saturday to try to figure out where the fish are before everyone shows up.  Here’s a list of mostly unrelated observations: 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name). 2.  It’s certainly tougher to see into the water with the sun so low, but when the fish are making rise forms, either taking emergers or dries, they’re easy to see.  I used several tricks to spot fish holding deeper, because sight fishing with nymphs is one of the most productive methods for me up there.  I stood on the bank, varied my angle, squinted, etc.  Early in the day, you can see into the water well from the north side of the river.  The rest of the day it help to face north and get the sun at your back. 3.  There was maybe 2.5 hrs during the day where the fish were taking dries.  I saw lots of fish on dries out in the current about 200 yards below texas hole – also a good place to get some water to yourself.  I caught fish by just putting emergers on the surface.  When i actually picked out a single fish and used a few different dry fly/tippet combos, all i got was refusals.  Tough customers. 4.  Knowing where the fish are is so important now, so i scouted the area right below the dam where the fish are known to be plentiful, large, and very selective.  They mostly take the tiny midge patterns close to the dam, although lots of folks fish leeches, worms, and eggs up there also.  I picked up only two fish there after lots of work. Both on size 24 red larva.  All day i landed 10 fish and that counts two smaller ones. 5.  Overall it was a bit of a frustrating day.  Ten fish isn’t bad, but i caught about 4 in the last half hour, nymphing deep in the main channel, blind casting where i knew there were fish.  It was cold all day and i dropped 4 or 5 flies before tying them on.  When you drop a size 24 ufo, don’t bother looking for it.  I’m one of those guys who always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders. 6.  I fish there a lot and i’ve got all the patterns and equipment, etc, but getting advice from me is a lot different than fishing with a guide.  For some reason they’ve just got it dialed in, and I think it’s mostly knowing where the fish are holding at that particular time. I’ve only fished with a guide four times up there, and each time i’ve caught far more fish than i would’ve on my own.  If anyone wants a guide for a day, i’d recommend Chris Guikema http://www.sanjuanworm.com – he is friendly and an excellent guide.  Craig at Float n Fish said he’d guide for this group (he knows we’re coming) and fishing with him would be a treat also.  Float n Fish has no website, but they can be reached at 505-632-5385 – Craig or Ray will usually answer the phone. 7.  The water was still clear, lake turnover hasn’t started yet.  Every day that goes by clear increases our chances of encountering cloudy water 8.  Something i’ve noticed lately:  Lots of guys enter the river carrying two rods, one set up for dries, one for nymphs.  At first i thought "give me a break" but when i think about it it makes some sense.  Lots of times i see fish surfacing so i quickly pull the yarn out of my leader and pop the indicator knot out and switch to emergers or a dry and by the time i’ve made the change, maybe three minutes, the fish aren’t rising any more.  So, i switch back to a deep rig and re rig and indicator (5 min) only to find the fish surfacing again. Either i’m real dumb (very likely) or these "two rod" guys have a good idea. I’m really looking forward to seeing/meeting everyone. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

fishworship

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away? Thanks, Ray

Response:

I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away? Thanks, Ray

You’ve already shown far more courtesy than the majority of newbies that come here for flyfishing advice. Thanks. We do have a FAQ http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/ Other than that, read the rantings for a week or so to get the gist of the ongoing conversations and a feel for the "group dynamics", then wade right on in. It’s a nice enough place, and we even talk about flyfishing every now and then. Welcome to flyfishing & welcome to ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

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I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away?

There is not much of a FAQ, unfortunately.  Ask, and if you get flamed either flame back or ignore them.  Repeat.  Enjoy. Regards, Jeff

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I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away?

Isn’t it a little late for that, erk? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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I am new to the sport and new to this board.  Is there somewhere I am supposed to look before asking basic newbie questions?  Or just ask away? Thanks, Ray

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Question:

Beeswax, among other various uses, is one of the few materials used for lining moulds etc in the food  and confectionery trades for preventing particularly sticky sweets from sticking. They are known as release, or separation agents.  Glue is not used for this purpose. Bees use wax as a construction material, not as a glue. The whole construction of the comb is pure wax.  Glue is a foreign substance used to join similar or dissimilar materials. Paraffin wax is used for similar purposes to beeswax in other areas. Practically nothing will stick to a polished wax surface. Both of these waxes, and indeed a number of other substances may be used to prevent ferrules "binding". In this sense they are used partly as lubricants, and partly as solid separating agents. Binding ( in the case of carbon fibre, and other rod ferrules),is invariably caused by a substance rubbing against an identical substance, especially when the joint is tapered.    Wax of practically any sort will prevent this for varying periods of time, depending on how often the joint is used. Hard white wax works best, lasts longest, and is cheap and  convenient to use. Solid beeswax will stick to more or less nothing apart from itself, and only then when it is warm enough to melt, and the same applies to solid paraffin wax.  Most especially so, when polished after application. Liquid waxes, and other substances used for lubrication, like various oils etc, will indeed stick to things, trap dust, grit etc, and the lubricant coat providing the separation of surfaces will break down much more rapidly, simply because it will flow away. Hard polished wax will neither stick to things, nor will it flow away.  It is also intrinsically waterproof. This makes it ideal for treating ferrules. Some info on wax may be obtained here: http://www.wetestit.com/wax.htm Personally I don

Question:

Well, Willi…..

This ROFF rant was well worth the price of admission if only to hear T-Bones lounge lizard act. — Ken Fortenberry- kicks shit out of little old lady litterers Illini 1 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

Nope… didn’t rant or rave or attack anyone personally, just attacked the bunch of "cyberbullies" that think everyone else wants to listen to their shit! Besides, I gave everyone a technique as to how they can avoid it…so, no harm- no foul- case in point….I deleted Fornicationberry’s response unread =) Larry #:)#

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I’m sure he’s distressed.<

Actually, I bet he’s pleased that someone actually relates the concept of fornication with his name.  <g

Response:

It is true that I have never seen him engaged in sexual congress, but

he always seemed less obsessed with the concept than some of the others around at the time<g.< Still water runs deep.  <g

Response:

Geeeeze.   I go fishing for a few days, come home and Fortenberry has his own thread and there is a thread about "off topic posts". Didn’t we go down these roads before?  And before that too? What’s left — another C&R/C&K thread, or maybe one about the effin’ Indians stealing from us white folk!  I betcha some dumb sumbitch is gonna ask what the best floatant is! Darwinnian my ass!  Dalwhinnie, maybe.  <g Louie (who is packin’ goin’ fishin’) Dave LaCourse

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Larry,    The filter is a great tool.  There is only one person on this group who I have filtered out all of his posts, but there are many threads where people start in saying things that should be taken to e-mail.  When I see there will be nothing more of value on a thread I filter it.. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 Well, Willi….. <snip Personally, I think anytime someone wants to rant-n-rave, it should be taken to private quarters and left out of the public arena, but the vast majority of these chest thumping testosterone laden hairy palmed individuals think that it’s quite important to make a public display of their idiocy and then look for others to come to their aid, grunting "UnNNNHHH- Me TOO….

<snip Larry #:)# – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Larry While not agreeing completely with your characterization, I will at least own a part of it and back off on some of these threads which frankly get my dander up. Of late there have been too many in that set. To the extent that Ive not seen the humor in a selective charactiture of the US, and my reaction is seen as hatred, I apologize to Christian, Mike and Herman. I will note that the spirit of the Revolutionary Army singing Yankee Doodle Dandy at Yorktown was reportedly very high and even our Polish, German, Irish and French officers joined in. Humor gentleman, humor. As to the Native American thread, which relates directly to the laws and history of the US, I am honestly appalled at the degree of ignorance expressed on ROFF for which I find no excuse in a group of my countryman with such nominally high educational levels. Racial considerations have been an element in our history from the start. Im no saint in this regard. What I find particularly chilling is the "reasonableness" of expression of this ignorance by nominally good men. I also note that the Southerners among us and some of those from the older parts of the US seem in general a bit more perceptive of where such ignorance leads. So maybe the lessons of our history are not lost. In any case Im taking a time out from the more controversial threads, and going to stick to FFing for a bit. Hope that helps. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nope… didn’t rant or rave or attack anyone personally, just attacked the bunch of "cyberbullies" that think everyone else wants to listen to their shit! Besides, I gave everyone a technique as to how they can avoid it…so, no harm- no foul- case in point….I deleted Fornicationberry’s response unread =) Larry #:)#

Response:

Nope… didn’t rant or rave or attack anyone personally, … ….I deleted Fornicationberry’s response unread =)

Well, I’ll take at face value your assertion that you didn’t attack anyone personally and conclude from your last line that you were just flexing your intellectual muscle. That’s so cute, and such a BIG word too, I sure am proud of you sweetheart. You keep working real hard and one of these days you’ll get out of fifth grade and be able to play with the big boys too. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

As to the Native American thread, which relates directly to the laws and history of the US, I am honestly appalled at the degree of ignorance expressed on ROFF for which I find no excuse in a group of my countryman with such nominally high educational levels. Racial considerations have been an element in our history from the start. Im no saint in this regard. What I find particularly chilling is the "reasonableness" of expression of this ignorance by nominally good men.

Well said. I too grow weary. I said in another thread that there were two almost equally distasteful options, ignore racist posts or set to with the racists. As it turns out most of the racists are good guys that just don’t know any better. I’ve drawn my line in the sand. Everyone here should know by now where I stand. This brouhaha has tipped the scale of "almost equally distasteful" back to where I think it better to ignore racist posts. I don’t know what posessed me to think it better to tilt at the other side of the scale other than frustration and an inflated sense of my own poor powers of persuasion. I do appreciate all the supportive email and the kind words from "lurkers" and Europeans alike. And a quick note to Harry Mason, we are in 100% agreement. Throwing out the race card IS an attempt to end the discussion. Sure as hell don’t work around here though. Native Americans are NOT the problem, but they sure make convenient scapegoats. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As to the Native American thread, which relates directly to the laws and history of the US, I am honestly appalled at the degree of ignorance expressed on ROFF for which I find no excuse in a group of my countryman with such nominally high educational levels. Racial considerations have been an element in our history from the start. Im no saint in this regard. What I find particularly chilling is the "reasonableness" of expression of this ignorance by nominally good men. Well said. I too grow weary. I said in another thread that there were two almost equally distasteful options, ignore racist posts or set to with the racists. As it turns out most of the racists are good guys that just don’t know any better. I’ve drawn my line in the sand. Everyone here should know by now where I stand. This brouhaha has tipped the scale of "almost equally distasteful" back to where I think it better to ignore racist posts. I don’t know what posessed me to think it better to tilt at the other side of the scale other than frustration and an inflated sense of my own poor powers of persuasion. I do appreciate all the supportive email and the kind words from "lurkers" and Europeans alike. And a quick note to Harry Mason, we are in 100% agreement. Throwing out the race card IS an attempt to end the discussion. Sure as hell don’t work around here though. Native Americans are NOT the problem, but they sure make convenient scapegoats. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 0

Americans ARE the problem and killers of the extraordinary amount of America’s Wildlife they are plundering. What part of this is racist and what part of this problem don’t you understand Ken? This IS A REALITY CHECK. You understand – Check this line. You Don’t Understand – Check this line. — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/html  Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com

Question:

Slainte ! MC

Response:

If you had to list ten flies to fish Western North Carolina streams year round, what would you take- elk hair caddis(tan); royal wulff; female adams; kauffman’s royal stimulator; royal trude; parachute blue-winged olive; letort hopper; prince nymph; squirrel tail nymph; montana nymph; pheasant tail nymph. wayno

If I remember correctly (and it’s tough) PJ only used two.  A royal coachman and any old nymph as a dropper.   Makes life simple. Peter

Response:

BTW, I’ll do my best to raise a glass to your health this weekend when some roffizen probates are in town….hell, I’ll do my best to raise a glass to each and every roffizen –waldo…takin’ liver pills

thank you sir.  I’ll toast you as well from the far fields of PA. Mark Faulkner

Response:

If you had to list ten flies to fish Western North Carolina streams year round, what would you take-

Response:

If you had to list ten flies to fish Western North Carolina streams year round, what would you take-

elk hair caddis(tan); royal wulff; female adams; kauffman’s royal stimulator; royal trude; parachute blue-winged olive; letort hopper; prince nymph; squirrel tail nymph; montana nymph; pheasant tail nymph. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

No Lt. Cahill, hare’s ear or terrestrials? Can you explain your selection understanding ten is a short number. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you had to list ten flies to fish Western North Carolina streams year round, what would you take- elk hair caddis(tan); royal wulff; female adams; kauffman’s royal stimulator; royal trude; parachute blue-winged olive; letort hopper; prince nymph; squirrel tail nymph; montana nymph; pheasant tail nymph. wayno

Response:

No Lt. Cahill, hare’s ear or terrestrials? Can you explain your selection understanding ten is a short number.

    fly selection is darwinian. wayno

Response:

If you had to list ten flies elk hair caddis(tan); royal wulff; female adams; kauffman’s royal stimulator; royal trude; parachute blue-winged olive; letort hopper; prince nymph; squirrel tail nymph; montana nymph; pheasant tail nymph.

Wayno, quit usin’ your toes to count to ten. That extra one down on the end gets you in trouble every time. A most excellent list, but some would make room in the top 10 for a yellow humpy. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Who? Darwin? You gonna’ listen to your friends or to the trout? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No Lt. Cahill, hare’s ear or terrestrials? Can you explain your selection understanding ten is a short number.     fly selection is darwinian. wayno

Response:

If you had to list ten flies to fish Western North Carolina streams year round, what would you take-

An experts

Question:

     I’ll be in the Old Forge, NY area during the last week in July. Does anyone know if it’s worth bringing my flyrod?

Response:

Yes it is if you have an opportunity to fish Nicks Lake. You will need a canoe (which can be rented from Tickners in Old Forge), since motors are not allowed on Nicks. Heavily stocked with brown and brook trout. Throw on a size #18 adams and have fun.

Response:

Definately check out the West Canada Creek when you’re in Old Forge.  Late July, most of August you’ll likely find prolific hatches of what are locally called "whiteflies".  Size 12-14-16 light cahills work fine.  Good luck!

Response:

Question:

Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks. — Gerald Strom University of Illinois at Chicago

Response:

Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks. —

cut it off…put the dry on you hatband of drying patch… if this makes your tippet too short then cut this off and replace it too… TimW

Response:

Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks.

Hi Gerald First off there is no such thing as a dumb question.  That’s what this group is all about — questions and answers. When you want to change a fly just cut one off and tie on another.  There are special nippers made for this purpose OR if you don’t have one a small finger nail clipper will work just fine.  When I first started I used a finger nail clipper on a loop of old fly line around my neck for several years. There are several different knots used to tie on flies.  You can go to the library and find a book on fly fishing or check at your local fly shop.  There is a neat little book (about 3"x5") on knots available today.  I personally like the Uni Knot but there are other good knots as well.  Many of the fly line manufacturers include knot tying instructions with there fly line.  Also I have an old aluminum Perine fly box that has the knot tying instruction on the front of the box. Keep asking the questions and I’m sure you’ll find someone more experienced on this group who will help. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT(96 catalog)

Response:

Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks. —

I must admit that I have never thought about it till now.  basicly i cut (bite) the old one off,  I guess that this results in the tippet ( end of the leader) becomming shorter and shorter.   In the UK you can get in small "snap" links from Mustard which are designed for easy fly changing Julian

Response:

Just cut fly off as close to hook as as possible then tie on new fly.Best to have someone show you improved clinch knot or uni knot

best of luck -jkralic

Response:

Heck, if you haven’t caught the darn thing in a tree behind you, you can’t be that dumb… Just snip it off and buy lots of tippet.

Response:

writes: Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this? Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks.

No need to apologize for your question.  the only stupid question is the one that doesn’t get asked.  Enjoyed the pun by the way ;^ When you want to change flies, you simply cut off the first one and tie on another. Eventually this will shorten your tippet (if you don’t lose it to a fly eating tree or bush first, or cast some wind knots into it), but then you cut that off and tie on a new piece.  Orvis has a waterproof knot booklet for about $5 that has the appropriate knots listed and how to tie them. Personally I use the Orvis knot to tie on most trout flies and a Trilene knot to tie on any fly large enough to pass the tippet through the eye twice (large streamers, bass flies, steelheadsalmon flies, saltwater flies).  On flies that I want to use a lot of action on I will often use a Duncan’s loop.                            Hope this helps,                                      Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe

Response:

In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe

I myself work on the premise that my tippet should be either the same or one size smaller than the tip section of my leader. For determining the end "tippet" size a good general rule is too devide your hook size by three. Example: Size 12 adams – use a 4x tippet. Reel simple

Response:

In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe I myself work on the premise that my tippet should be either the same or one size smaller than the tip section of my leader. For determining the end "tippet" size a good general rule is too devide your hook size by three. Example: Size 12 adams – use a 4x tippet. Reel simple

One approach is to use a 3X leader and then step down to the desired tippet size  using 6 – 8 inch long transition sections.  For example, if you want to use a 6X tippet, you would use 8 inches of 4X and 8 inches of 5 X between the leader and tippet section. This way you only carry one size leader. Regards, Chuck

Response:

One approach is to use a 3X leader and then step down to the desired tippet size  using 6 – 8 inch long transition sections.  For example, if you want to use a 6X tippet, you would use 8 inches of 4X and 8 inches of 5 X between the leader and tippet section. This way you only carry one size leader. Regards, Chuck

Not a bad idea Chuck except for me personally I find it very difficult to  tie on those little pieces of tippet material while there is a feeding frenzy going on. For some reason my fingers and brain seem to disconnect while whatching trout splashing and jumping all around me, not to mention the problem of cold fingers or low light. I generally carry a range of leaders sizes 3x-6x pretied with 3 feet of tippet section done while at home whatching a fishing show or something. This allows me more time to fish and less aggravation on the water. I only tie on the water if I have to. Tight lines Russ

Response:

(DLowe21757) writes: In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe

Boy this can be a can of worms! Commercial knotless tapered leaders consist of three parts – butt section (which is heavy and level or very slightly tapered), the tapering section (which rapidly tapers down to your tippet size), and the tippet section (which is also level and the part that you tie onto the fly).  So your leader already has a tippet on it.  You can replace the tippet as needed as you break it off or cut it down from changing flies.  Much less expensive to tie on a new tippet section than to change an entire leader every time you mess up the tippet.  You can also change how your leader performs by cutting back or adding tippet.  If you add tippet you will get more slack out near the fly, if you cut back tippet you will get more power delivered to the fly resulting is less slack and more ease in turning over large flies or regular flies in windy conditions.  You can play around with the butt section in the opposite manner to accomplish the same thing, but that means tying two knots instead of one.  And of course if you really want to get carried away you can vary both to fine tune the leader to your needs. A good approximate guide to which tippet size to use is to divide the size of your fly by 3 and use the resultant number for your tippet X number. For instance: size 18 fly divided by 3 = 6X tippet, size 12 divided by 3 = 4X, size 16 divided by 3 = 5X and a little left over.  In slow clear water with spooky trout you may have to go one X smaller, and in fast pocket water you may be able to go one X larger.  Listen to what the fish say, they’ll tell you. Length of leader is more a function of the water type than anything else. We use longer leaders for greater subtlety (less obtrusive than the fly line) and more suppleness.  Long leaders – 9 to 12 ft.- are most commonly needed in slow clear water with spooky trout.  That is because the trout gets a long time to inspect your fly in slow water and are typically more critical of drag.  Short leaders – 6 to 7 1/2 ft. – are used in faster water for better control with typically larger flies in fast water conditions.  In fast water the trout gets only a short time to see your fly before he takes it or rejects it and there is not usually as much food available (harsher conditions) so he tends to be more opportunistic than in the slower water conditions.  Since we don’t need the added subtlety and suppleness of the longer leader in faster conditions we don’t use it. Always best to use the shortest heaviest leader you can get away with. Again listen to the trout.   If the trout aren’t taking your fly you probably need to go longer and finer.  Sometimes the shortest stoutest leader that will work is a 12 ft. 6X or 7X leader.                      Hope this helps,                              Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Question:

Am planning a business trip in late Oct. in the Seattle and Vancouver area.  Is there any flyfishing to be had in that region during this part of the year.  Either fresh or salt water? Would appreciate any advice. Thanks Thom

Response:

(ThomSmith1) writes:

Thom, if you have time you might consider the Yakima River about two hours east of Seattle. It is a catch and release river that usually provides better than average fishing. If it fits in your plans, feel free to e-mail me for additional information. Rand Elliott

Response: