Question:

I went in midaugust.  Pretty slow.  Lost one fish and two missed strikes in 2.5 days of fishing.  A friend caught 4 fish in 3 days, and a guy who was a bigtime flyfishing bum and former snake river guide had three. check with doaks for latest. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Response:

I fished it once for a week in early October. Caught one small fish. My guide told me that his favorite time was the first two weeks of July. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com   Robert,   Have a look at the angling reports on Doak’s website,   http://www.wwdoak.com/open.htm   A bit of salemanship in some of the wording, but the reports and pictures very probably accurate.   Regards,   Yuji Sakuma     Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New     Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go     this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going.     —     Regards,     Robert E. "Bob" Buckley     Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Response:

Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Friend sof mine are on th eMiramichi this week. You can find up to date information at http://www.salmonanglersonline.com/index.html Enjoy Tom. — Thomas Hackmann "Live simply, so that others may simply live." To reply delete XPLEASENOSPAMX from email address.

Response:

Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going.: This may be a late reply, but I fish the Little Southwest and Northwest Miramichi rivers every weekend.  They have been OK.  The LSW has generally been better.  The Main Southwest by all accounts is full of fish right now.   The water is low, and with a bit of rain the fishing should be great for the last two weeks. JB

Response:

Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Response:

Robert, Have a look at the angling reports on Doak’s website, http://www.wwdoak.com/open.htm A bit of salemanship in some of the wording, but the reports and pictures very probably accurate. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Response:

Question:

Is there any small lake fish that cannot be successfully and easily caught with a hook, worm and bobber? I ask this because I am amazed at how much stuff I have to catch bass/muskie/northern etc. that often gets no hits whatsoever, but a meaty nightcrawler almost always sinks the bobber within a few minutes and it’s anyone’s guss what will be pulled out of the water.  I have also noticed that a yellow or green 1-2" curly tail on a jig is almost as good. I am getting tempted to leave my tackle box at home and just bring a small pocket sized box with me containing several hooks, bobbers, plastic curltails in various colors/sizes and jigs. Today I went canoe fishing on Hooker Lake in Kenosha, WI.  I used a 3" floating rapala, a floating frog(green and white), a silver shad colored slug-go fished near top and near bottom, a 4" semi transparent minnow looking thing at all depths, a realistic looking and scented plastic worm about 6"(after a while I even tipped the hook with a real wax worm) and a smallish spinner bait.  I tried every type of presentation I could think of. I fished shallow, I fished deep.  I fished weeds, I fished docks, I fished every bit of structure I could find, I fished open water. I caught nothing for 5 hours, not even a little hit. I saw some guy go out onto his pier in his back yard, throw a nightcrawler/bobber rig into the water and figured he was panfishing. Within 30 seconds he pulled out what had to have been a 20+ inch bass.  I was jealous.  He didn’t even look excited about it, like he was used to this sort of thing. I switched to nightcrawler and bobber. I caught perch, bluegill, bass, an impressively large shad, and almost got into the boat what looked to be a sub legal size northern (don’t know what he was doing in hooker lake.)  all within the 90 minutes I had left before I had to head in. Anyone else feel my pain? — Dave A

Response:

Sorry Dave, no pain felt here.  You were versitile enough to change when you saw someone else catching fish on something you knew caught fish, and you adapted.  Good job…next time, throw out a rod with live bait, and fish with a lure simultaneously, and perhaps the combo rigging will tell you sooner, which presentation they prefer.  Keep at it. — "Mad-Mikey"  At first, fishing and hunting were just hobbies,              then they became addictions taking all my time              and money. If they ever find a cure for these              sicknesses—   I’m refusing treatment. Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Dave! I am mainly a fly fisherman.  I had not dunked a worm since I was about 14… 20+ years ago.  For the past two weeks I have been messing around with worms and I’m having a ball!  I’ve caught walleye, catfish, various panfish and my first ever large mouth bass and drum. Good luck! — Fritz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any small lake fish that cannot be successfully and easily caught with a hook, worm and bobber? I ask this because I am amazed at how much stuff I have to catch bass/muskie/northern etc. that often gets no hits whatsoever, but a meaty nightcrawler almost always sinks the bobber within a few minutes and it’s anyone’s guss what will be pulled out of the water.  I have also noticed that a yellow or green 1-2" curly tail on a jig is almost as good. I am getting tempted to leave my tackle box at home and just bring a small pocket sized box with me containing several hooks, bobbers, plastic curltails in various colors/sizes and jigs. Today I went canoe fishing on Hooker Lake in Kenosha, WI.  I used a 3" floating rapala, a floating frog(green and white), a silver shad colored slug-go fished near top and near bottom, a 4" semi transparent minnow looking thing at all depths, a realistic looking and scented plastic worm about 6"(after a while I even tipped the hook with a real wax worm) and a smallish spinner bait.  I tried every type of presentation I could think of. I fished shallow, I fished deep.  I fished weeds, I fished docks, I fished every bit of structure I could find, I fished open water. I caught nothing for 5 hours, not even a little hit. I saw some guy go out onto his pier in his back yard, throw a nightcrawler/bobber rig into the water and figured he was panfishing. Within 30 seconds he pulled out what had to have been a 20+ inch bass.  I was jealous.  He didn’t even look excited about it, like he was used to this sort of thing. I switched to nightcrawler and bobber. I caught perch, bluegill, bass, an impressively large shad, and almost got into the boat what looked to be a sub legal size northern (don’t know what he was doing in hooker lake.)  all within the 90 minutes I had left before I had to head in. Anyone else feel my pain? — Dave A

Response:

Question:

Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…..a question or two if I may.. Dave did you say you thought they were out of camps…i.e. cabins? apparently i can’t get there from here and can only get so close….then they have to transport me….right? Are there campfrounds, as in tents, available. Could a person bring their own boat? Am I a day late and a dollar short? ps……any boddy into the travel buddy thing?

Response:

John writes: Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…..a question or two if I may.. Dave did you say you thought they were out of camps…i.e. cabins?

There is room in Steve Zimmerman’s cabin. apparently i can’t get there from here and can only get so close….then they have to transport me….right?

Right. Are there campfrounds, as in tents, available.

The campfrounds and the campgrounds close the week before the clave.   Could a person bring their own boat?

Yes. Am I a day late and a dollar short?

No. ps……any boddy into the travel buddy thing?

If you want to go to the clave, John, I can probably get you in.  But, remember, the "coupon" is not good for the clave.  Pick a time….. Dave

Response:

Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…. ….any boddy into the travel buddy thing?

John, there is a campsite very close to Middle Dam and Lakewood Camps that is administered by the South Arm Campground. http://www.atlanticcapitalcorp.com/southarm/index.html South Arm, the main campground, closes on Monday September 11. There is a possibility they could be talked into letting us use the wilderness campsite for the rest of the week, though. I have talked with the guy and he seems agreeable enough. It takes a boat to get from South Arm to the campsite, it’s about four miles. If, and this is a BIG if, I can make it I’d be staying at that campsite with Kristine & Kipper the hound. I’m not gonna be able to do a guys only trip twice in one year. I’m gonna sell this to Kristine as a trip to Vermont, New Hamshire, Maine and a return through Montreal with a couple of days of fishing thrown in. What kinda boat you got ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

John,  It’s a long tradition in Maine to just pull over on a dirt road and camp, if the camps Ken mentioned don’t want you on their plot, just find a nice clear spot and setup. As long as you don’t build a campfire you will not be hassled about it. Back when I had a pickup with a cap, and not the ‘dadmobile’ that I drive today, I often just camped in the bed of the truck.  I’m probably coming up to the clave for a day and a night (dates are TBD) and will probably be using my tried and true just find a wide spot in the road and camp technique. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…..a question or two if I may.. Dave did you say you thought they were out of camps…i.e. cabins? apparently i can’t get there from here and can only get so close….then they have to transport me….right? Are there campfrounds, as in tents, available. Could a person bring their own boat? Am I a day late and a dollar short? ps……any boddy into the travel buddy thing?

Response:

Hmmmmmm…..curiouser and curiouser….I’ve got a 16′ aluminum with a 35 horse motor….floor, bass seats, steering wheel,,,(or is it tiller?)…… You can stop in and pick up my boat and then I’ll fly out and you can pick me up at the airport!!!!!! that or we’ll let the girls tow it and *we’ll* fly out!….john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having become more than slightly intereted in the maine clave…. ….any boddy into the travel buddy thing? John, there is a campsite very close to Middle Dam and Lakewood Camps that is administered by the South Arm Campground. http://www.atlanticcapitalcorp.com/southarm/index.html South Arm, the main campground, closes on Monday September 11. There is a possibility they could be talked into letting us use the wilderness campsite for the rest of the week, though. I have talked with the guy and he seems agreeable enough. It takes a boat to get from South Arm to the campsite, it’s about four miles. If, and this is a BIG if, I can make it I’d be staying at that campsite with Kristine & Kipper the hound. I’m not gonna be able to do a guys only trip twice in one year. I’m gonna sell this to Kristine as a trip to Vermont, New Hamshire, Maine and a return through Montreal with a couple of days of fishing thrown in. What kinda boat you got ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’m not gonna be able to do a guys only trip twice in one year. I’m gonna sell this to Kristine as a trip to Vermont, New Hamshire, Maine and a return through Montreal with a couple of days of fishing thrown in.

Now yer usin the ol noggin.  If Kristine is actually your wife, then maybe I should take some pointers from you – I’m just practicing for it right now, trying to "sell" the Maine trip Regards, Jeff

Response:

Question:

Sink tips as well as full sinking lines come in a variety of sink rates.  If your not getting down as deep as you like, you might just need a higher density line. The experts I have read say that the advantage of a full sinking line, is that it  stays in the strike zone longer.  This is because the sink tips are hanging down at an angle, so that the fly is being pulled up. Some times this can be an advantage though.  My fishing buddy has done great on a sink tip with a carry special and a chironomid trailer. — Terry Robinson Visit me at http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfisher23/  Terry’s Fishing and Writing place

Response:

Kind of depends on whether you are fishing moving or still water. With a fast sink tip in moving water, the ‘angle’ is not a factor. All of the sinking portion is under, along with butt, leader and tippet (6′ to 8′), and streamer ( I don’t ever nymph with a sinktip!). Not much (at most 10 or 20 feet) of your running line (that would be the non-sinking portion of the fly line for those ‘equipment-ally challenged’ out there) would even be off the reel, allowing pretty good control over the mending and stripping that would be taking place. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sink tips as well as full sinking lines come in a variety of sink rates.  If your not getting down as deep as you like, you might just need a higher density line. The experts I have read say that the advantage of a full sinking line, is that it  stays in the strike zone longer.  This is because the sink tips are hanging down at an angle, so that the fly is being pulled up. Some times this can be an advantage though.  My fishing buddy has done great on a sink tip with a carry special and a chironomid trailer.

Response:

Hi Claude, I don’t like sinking tip as you have a curve in the line and you can’t really feel what happen around the fly. 6 to 10 feet in average?  With a floating line, an intermediate and a number 3 (or 2) sinking line, you are set for most of the conditions. Philippe http://fishing.ifrance.com * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

This year I want to try fishing a little bit deeper. hoping to get the big trout if the dry flies don’t work… I had all kinds of different answers so I hope the experience fly of this group can help. some said a sinking tip will be enough other full sinking  line???? Fishing on a small lac, deepest in the middle 20 feet. average 6 to 10 feet. If I stay on the same spot and fish from shore to middle I have used the sinking tip and look ok but never seems to go very deep or deep enough to get the big old trout ? I know for sure there are some big one, a diver saw a couple very nice rainbow…at the bottom. if trolling slowly, does the full sinking line will be to heavy or ok? I plan to use it on a 5wg rod. Thanks in advance for all your help Claude

Response:

The faster you troll, the shallower your line will stay due to the friction/planing of the line. A full sinking line should be fine at those depths if you troll slowly. You might even wish to use a very dense loop on sinktip extender (mini sink tip) in addition to your sinking line. Good luck rtw if trolling slowly, does the full sinking line will be to heavy or ok? I plan to use it on a 5wg rod. Thanks in advance for all your help Claude

– Remove "zzz" from address if emailing direct.

Response:

Question:

Mary Malmros said… Yeah, but you get other things with a folder, some of which are real important to those of us with fourth-floor walkup apartments, no storage space, and frequent urges to "impulse kayak" on the way home from work Like me!  A folder might be the right solution for me; the problem is, where can you try ‘em out?  I’m sure not gonna sink $3500 into something without a lot of paddling and experimentation.

I can certainly see the portability part, but I’m not too sure about the "impulse" part, having watched someone put one together at the put-in (and not finish by the time I lost sight of her as I paddled away).  Now that was a brand-new Feathercraft, so maybe a little break-in (and experience) would help a lot. -Wayne  Foster-Miller, Inc.        ***Disclaimed***          781-684-4228

Response:

 … I would really hesitate to suggest to someone that was looking for their first kayak to consider a Klepper/Feathercraft for one reason.  They’re expensive.  An Aerius II lists for almost $3500.  Suggesting that someone spend that kind of money for a first boat is absurd when there are boats available at half the price that would meet a beginners needs.   Very few beginning kayakers would need a boat that could be paddled/sailed across the Atlantic.

Of course, you needn’t start with a Klepper; the Folbot Aleut is closer to $1200, and it’s a superb boat. Great boats, great beginner’s boats, and with care they’ll last a lifetime. Get a copy of Ralph Diaz’ book, subscribe to his newsletter and see my web page for more details: http://www.mich.com/~mje/kayak.html — mike

Response:

Hi Mary, I dont know what area of the country you live in, but you need to find a dealer near water. I realize this isnt as easy as it sounds, but in central wisconsin I was able to test paddle a Feathercraft K-1, K-Light, Khatsalano, and a single and double Klepper.   I eventually bought a used Klepper Aerius 1 in very good condition for about $1100 from the Klepper dealer, who was very patient with me (and who has been very helpfull since…. His name is on the shop’s sign too!).   It takes less then 20 min. from bag to the water for my boat, so the after work impules paddling is very do-able.   The boat isnt a speed demon, but it is a gas in rough water.   I realize that I am straying from the point of the original post, though the price I got my folder for wouldnt be out of line for a first boat either, come think of it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people have said to try before buying.  There must be big differences in  kayaks. Don’t forget the folding kayak either, which, arguably, may be the best real sea kayak around.  Klepper has been in business for over 90 years (something the plastic and fiberglass guys can’t even comprehend) and fields a kayak (Aerius II) that was paddled/sailed solo across the Atlantic back in 1954 (another thing the hardshell guys can’t comprehend).  Feathercraft, Folbot and others are out there too. I would really hesitate to suggest to someone that was looking for their first kayak to consider a Klepper/Feathercraft for one reason.  They’re expensive.  An Aerius II lists for almost $3500.  Suggesting that someone spend that kind of money for a first boat is absurd when there are boats available at half the price that would meet a beginners needs.   Yeah, but you get other things with a folder, some of which are real important to those of us with fourth-floor walkup apartments, no storage space, and frequent urges to "impulse kayak" on the way home from work Like me!  A folder might be the right solution for me; the problem is, where can you try ‘em out?  I’m sure not gonna sink $3500 into something without a lot of paddling and experimentation.

I agree that there are some definate advantages for a folding kayak. As far as portability they’re hard to beat (although I wouldn’t mind having a three piece hardshell like the Nordkapp either) but as far as a "beginners" boat goes I just can’t see suggesting something that is two to three times as expensive as someting that will suit most beginners needs. I used to see the same thing all the time in the flyfishing newsgroup. Someone would come on asking for recommendations for a flyrod and reel for a beginner and they’d be met with suggestions for a Scott, Winston, Thomas & Thomas, rods that run $350-$500.  I’ve been flyfishing for over 25 years and probably get more use out of my $100 Redington than any of my seven other flyrods.  Someone that is entering a hobby for the first time shouldn’t, IMHO, be spending top of the line prices unless they have money to burn.   John Fereira

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people have said to try before buying.  There must be big differences in  kayaks. Don’t forget the folding kayak either, which, arguably, may be the best real sea kayak around.  Klepper has been in business for over 90 years (something the plastic and fiberglass guys can’t even comprehend) and fields a kayak (Aerius II) that was paddled/sailed solo across the Atlantic back in 1954 (another thing the hardshell guys can’t comprehend).  Feathercraft, Folbot and others are out there too. I would really hesitate to suggest to someone that was looking for their first kayak to consider a Klepper/Feathercraft for one reason.  They’re expensive.  An Aerius II lists for almost $3500.  Suggesting that someone spend that kind of money for a first boat is absurd when there are boats available at half the price that would meet a beginners needs.  

Yeah, but you get other things with a folder, some of which are real important to those of us with fourth-floor walkup apartments, no storage space, and frequent urges to "impulse kayak" on the way home from work Like me!  A folder might be the right solution for me; the problem is, where can you try ‘em out?  I’m sure not gonna sink $3500 into something without a lot of paddling and experimentation. — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

Response:

A lot of people have said to try before buying.  There must be big differences in  kayaks. Don’t forget the folding kayak either, which, arguably, may be the best real sea kayak around.  Klepper has been in business for over 90 years (something the plastic and fiberglass guys can’t even comprehend) and fields a kayak (Aerius II) that was paddled/sailed solo across the Atlantic back in 1954 (another thing the hardshell guys can’t comprehend).  Feathercraft, Folbot and others are out there too.

I would really hesitate to suggest to someone that was looking for their first kayak to consider a Klepper/Feathercraft for one reason.  They’re expensive.  An Aerius II lists for almost $3500.  Suggesting that someone spend that kind of money for a first boat is absurd when there are boats available at half the price that would meet a beginners needs.   Very few beginning kayakers would need a boat that could be paddled/sailed across the Atlantic. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sea or touring kayak is what I’m looking for.  I’m trying  to learn as much as I can before buying..  I use to do a lot of canoeing when I was younger. Kayaks look like they would be a lot of fun.. They’re an enormous amount of fun, but anyone’s choice of fave boat — or manufacturer — is going to be based on the type of paddler they are and the type of paddling they do.   I’m going to say something that may be a little controversial.  I’ve been reading rbp for about nine months now, and it seems to me that I’ve seen a lot of barely-used "entry-level" boats for sale, on this and other forums.  Now, I could be wrong…but that makes me wonder if a lot of people are buying in a hurry, maybe talking themselves into buying something because they get a good price on a package, and quickly outgrowing that first boat (or finding out, as they spend more time paddling, that it is a good boat but really not suited for the type of paddling they want to do).  

You won’t get any argument from me.  I think part of the reason stems from the idea that the only thing "entry level" about a lot of those boats for sale are the prices.  Sea kayaking seems to have an identity crisis.  It seems that everything from a Perception Keowee to a VCP Nordkapp is classified as a "sea kayak".  There seems to be a range of boats, typically between 13-15′ in length, usually wider than 24" with lots of initial stabilty that (also partially because of their price) are thought of as "entry level" boats.  In my opinion, this class of boats are designed for paddling conditions more so than for beginners.  In fact, I have found that the characteristics of this class does more to keep it’s paddlers at an "entry level" more than anything.  They’re good boats if you want something that is going to be very stable for taking pictures and don’t plan on paddling in rough conditions.  If you want something that is going to allow one to become proficient in rough conditions their stability is going to restrict ones ability to improve. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

A lot of people have said to try before buying.  There must be big differences in  kayaks.

Don’t forget the folding kayak either, which, arguably, may be the best real sea kayak around.  Klepper has been in business for over 90 years (something the plastic and fiberglass guys can’t even comprehend) and fields a kayak (Aerius II) that was paddled/sailed solo across the Atlantic back in 1954 (another thing the hardshell guys can’t comprehend).  Feathercraft, Folbot and others are out there too.

Response:

Al Bowers said… Something else to consider, the paddle is more important to enjoyment than even the boat is.  If you have to scrimp a bit on the boat for a top notch paddle, that’s a good idea…

I agree.  A boat can be nice or not so great, but the paddle can make or break the whole experience. We’re going to try a boat for my wife this weekend (maybe).  She’s tried a couple of boats, and I think we’re getting close.  We’re down to the Seda Swift, Perception Sea Lion, and the Perception Shadow…

I didn’t like the Sea Lion at all, personally (and this was the boat I thought I would like).  The deck was too high, the cockpit absolutely huge (I’m 5′10", 175 lbs), and I had a heck of a time making it move.  I did like the Shadow, which was tight and quick, even though (or perhaps partially because) it was too small for me.   Don’t know the Seda Swift. I’m getting ready to build a couple of Pygmy Arctic Terns for my wife and myself. -Wayne  Foster-Miller, Inc.        ***Disclaimed***          781-684-4228

Response:

Erie Pa (Lake Erie) There is a place nearby that rents them.  I have to wate for the water to worm up a bit.  A lot of people have said to try before buying.  There must be big differences in  kayaks.

The more you paddle the better you’ll be able to detect the differences. I realize that it’s a bit of a drive but a friend of mine is opening up a shop in Ithaca, NY.  I’m helping him move some of his boats in this weekend (and will be storing mine there as well since it’s right on the water).  If you ever get over this way let me know.  He’s about about 15 different boats that you could try.  Watch of demo days and symposiums. They’re a great way to try out a variety of boats. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

Bill Zimmerman said…  A lot of people have said to try before buying.  There must be big differences in  kayaks. Oh, yeah!  If you start in basic ignorance, then

Good advice to try before you buy.  Or at least have a very good idea at what you want to do.  Even within the "touring" or "sea kayak" genre there is considerable variation; expeditions boats, mid-line touring boats, performance boats, race boats, etc, plus combinations of the above eg: performance expedition boats… 1) Make a list of boats to look at (helped along here, of course), 2) Find out the supposed characteristics of each, 3) Pick the one you think you’ll end up liking, and 4) Go try them all out,

Make a list of the things you want to do and how much time you’ll be doing them.  Say you want to do a BIG trip, like Bowron or the Inside Passage (Vancouver to Alaska), but most of your trips will be short day trips.  then you need a boat that might just work on the long trip, but is biased towards the daytripper type boat. I think your (or anyone else’s) initial guess is usually wrong.  If it isn’t wrong, congratuations, you proved you were right and will be happier with the boat knowing it was the right choice.   You gotta try the boats.  You should check Deja News for recent threads on sea kayak selection, since this isn’t a new subject around here.

Having built 5 boats, and buying 3 over a period of 26 years, when I wanted a high performance boat I had a pretty good idea of _exactly_ what I wanted.  No frills, high performance, to be used for exercise, fast day touring, and the occasional long trip.  I bought a Seda Glider and a Werner Pegasus wing paddle; and I couldn’t be happier with them.  It’s an awesome combination that will exceed my abilities for as long as I continue to paddle. Something else to consider, the paddle is more important to enjoyment than even the boat is.  If you have to scrimp a bit on the boat for a top notch paddle, that’s a good idea.  Try different paddles as well, higher end if you can.  Then after you start to form some opinions on what you like and don’t like, then start trying your desired paddle and boat to see if you were right.  Then you’re REALLY ready to buy… We’re going to try a boat for my wife this weekend (maybe).  She’s tried a couple of boats, and I think we’re getting close.  We’re down to the Seda Swift, Perception Sea Lion, and the Perception Shadow… Al Bowers

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As for touring boats, I can tell you who isn’t the best. Valley Canoe Products. If anyone wants to hear the long version, email me.

Since I own a VCP boat and have been very happy with it I’d like to hear the long version.  If you don’t want to post it her you can send me email. I haven’t paddled the Skerray in plastic but I have glass version and have demo’d a Pintail, Anas Acuta,  and an Aquilla and liked them all.  I haven’t paddled one, and I realize they’re not for everyone, the Nordkapp remains one of the most popular designs in the world. I probably wouldn’t claim that they are the "best" boats but I would put VCP up near the top in terms of performance, ocean worthiness,  construction, and appointments.   The VCP hatch covers are practically an industry standard. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

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Sea or touring kayak is what I’m looking for.  I’m trying  to learn as much as I can before buying..  I use to do a lot of canoeing when I was younger. Kayaks look like they would be a lot of fun.. Bill

If you’re looking for a durable tandem touring kayak I’d take a look at the Necky Amaruk.   Sea or touring kayaks come in a variety of materials.  The most inexpensive (and generally the most durable) are plastic or polyethelene kayaks.  Different vendors use different methods for constructing plastic boats.  Prijon generally seems to have the best plastic in the business but generally plastic boats are pretty indestructible.  They’re also heavier and slower than boats made with other materials. Fiberglass boats are lighter and their construction allows finer lines than you’ll find in a plastic boat.  The material is also stiffer and smoother which also contributes to speed.  The drawbacks are that they are more expensive and are less durable than plastic (although if you do damage a glass boat it’s easier to repair than plastic). Many models available in fiberglass are layed up with kevlar rather than fiberglass.  They have all the benefits of a fiberglass boat but are even lighter and are more durable.  They are also significantly more expensive. Wood kayaks seem to be becoming more and more popular.  There are a couple of major kit suppliers (Pygmy and Chesapeake Light Craft) that produce some fine kits that someone without prior woodworking skills can build using a stitch-n-glue technique.  For about the price of a plastic boat you can build a wood boat (actually fiberglass over wood) boat.  They’re lighter than almost all fiberglass and kevlar boats, have about the same durability as a glass boat.  They require a little more maintenance but can be repaired if damaged and of course require the time to build.  They are, however, some of the prettiest kayaks you’ll find on the water.  There are also a few kits and/or plans available for wood kayaks built using narrow strips.  They’re more work but can produce some gorgeous boats.   There aren’t that many around but some people are still building skin over frame boats. There are a couple of other materials worth mentioning.  There are a few companies that build "take apart" boats that use a frame with a waterproof fabric cover.  Klepper, Feathercraft, and Folbot are three such companies. These kayaks can be quite expensive but can’t be beat for portability (many will fold up into a backpack).  There are also some decent inflatable kayaks. You’ll even find some sea kayaks which use combinations of materials. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

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Bill Zimmerman said… Erie Pa (Lake Erie) There is a place nearby that rents them.  I have to wate for the water to worm up a bit.

    ^^^^ Still a big eel problem up there?  ;-)  A lot of people have said to try before buying.  There must be big differences in  kayaks.

Oh, yeah!  If you start in basic ignorance, then 1) Make a list of boats to look at (helped along here, of course), 2) Find out the supposed characteristics of each, 3) Pick the one you think you’ll end up liking, and 4) Go try them all out, I think your (or anyone else’s) initial guess is usually wrong.  If it isn’t wrong, congratuations, you proved you were right and will be happier with the boat knowing it was the right choice.   You gotta try the boats.  You should check Deja News for recent threads on sea kayak selection, since this isn’t a new subject around here. -Wayne  Foster-Miller, Inc.        ***Disclaimed***          781-684-4228

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As for touring boats, I can tell you who isn’t the best. Valley Canoe Products. If anyone wants to hear the long version, email me. Jeff

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Mary Malmros said… I’m going to say something that may be a little controversial.  I’ve been reading rbp for about nine months now, and it seems to me that I’ve seen a lot of barely-used "entry-level" boats for sale, on this and other forums.  Now, I could be wrong…but that makes me wonder if a lot of people are buying in a hurry, maybe talking themselves into buying something because they get a good price on a package, and quickly outgrowing that first boat (or finding out, as they spend more time paddling, that it is a good boat but really not suited for the type of paddling they want to do).  

I think that’s true in many cases, but I think there might also be a certain amount of the ‘exercise machine syndrome’, where someone is convinced kayaking’s for them, runs out and buys a boat (in many cases the wrong boat), and finds out the sport’s not for them.  A lot of people look at kayaking and get a funny look in their eye at the thought of how beautiful it must be out there.  Others look at it and think that it looks a lot like work.  A lot of the used boats are from people who got the look in their eye and _then_ found out it was a lot like work. -Wayne  Foster-Miller, Inc.        ***Disclaimed***          781-684-4228

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Sea or touring kayak is what I’m looking for.  I’m trying  to learn as much as I can before buying..  I use to do a lot of canoeing when I was younger. Kayaks look like they would be a lot of fun.. That’s a horrible question to ask. It depends on what you’re looking for.

It’s still a horrible question. Plastic or glass? Inland lake or open water? And so on, and so on. "Best" is relative, based on what you want to use it for and the conditions you want to use it in. "Best" can change with every stroke of the paddle. At your stage, the "best" you can hope for is "pretty good." There are an awful lot of touring boats out there that fall into the category of "pretty good." — Wes

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Erie Pa (Lake Erie) There is a place nearby that rents them.  I have to wate for the water to worm up a bit.  A lot of people have said to try before buying.  There must be big differences in  kayaks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sea or touring kayak is what I’m looking for.  I’m trying  to learn as much as I can before buying..  I use to do a lot of canoeing when I was younger. Kayaks look like they would be a lot of fun.. They’re an enormous amount of fun, but anyone’s choice of fave boat — or manufacturer — is going to be based on the type of paddler they are and the type of paddling they do. I’m going to say something that may be a little controversial.  I’ve been reading rbp for about nine months now, and it seems to me that I’ve seen a lot of barely-used "entry-level" boats for sale, on this and other forums.  Now, I could be wrong…but that makes me wonder if a lot of people are buying in a hurry, maybe talking themselves into buying something because they get a good price on a package, and quickly outgrowing that first boat (or finding out, as they spend more time paddling, that it is a good boat but really not suited for the type of paddling they want to do). The nice thing about choosing a sea or touring kayak is that it’s not too hard to find liveries where you can try out a lot of different boats.  I think it’s worth the investment in time and rental fees. An inexpensive touring kayak might list for no more than a few hundred dollars, a really superior one could be close to ten times that, but whether it’s a little or a lot, it’s wasted money if it’s not the right thing for you.  I’ve paddled touring kayaks by Necky, Wilderness Systems, Current Designs, Perception, Walden, and others, but I’d want to paddle a lot more before making a purchase. Where are you located?  Perhaps someone can recommend a livery in your area where you can get some instruction and some paddling time. — :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart for the joys of the multitude"

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Sea or touring kayak is what I’m looking for.  I’m trying  to learn as much as I can before buying..  I use to do a lot of canoeing when I was younger. Kayaks look like they would be a lot of fun..

They’re an enormous amount of fun, but anyone’s choice of fave boat — or manufacturer — is going to be based on the type of paddler they are and the type of paddling they do.   I’m going to say something that may be a little controversial.  I’ve been reading rbp for about nine months now, and it seems to me that I’ve seen a lot of barely-used "entry-level" boats for sale, on this and other forums.  Now, I could be wrong…but that makes me wonder if a lot of people are buying in a hurry, maybe talking themselves into buying something because they get a good price on a package, and quickly outgrowing that first boat (or finding out, as they spend more time paddling, that it is a good boat but really not suited for the type of paddling they want to do).   The nice thing about choosing a sea or touring kayak is that it’s not too hard to find liveries where you can try out a lot of different boats.  I think it’s worth the investment in time and rental fees. An inexpensive touring kayak might list for no more than a few hundred dollars, a really superior one could be close to ten times that, but whether it’s a little or a lot, it’s wasted money if it’s not the right thing for you.  I’ve paddled touring kayaks by Necky, Wilderness Systems, Current Designs, Perception, Walden, and others, but I’d want to paddle a lot more before making a purchase. Where are you located?  Perhaps someone can recommend a livery in your area where you can get some instruction and some paddling time. — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

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Who is the best kayak manufacture??

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Who is the best kayak manufacture??

     You forgot the "r" on the end of that last word.      The best kayak manufacturer has got to be Nanook of the North. Splash

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That’s a horrible question to ask. It depends on what you’re looking for. Prijon probably has the most durable boats, while Riot has the most radical designs. Wavesport has great plastic and designs… etc. Not to mention, whitewater companies are completely different in this area than touring, slalom, and sea kayaks. Sam —    Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who is the best kayak manufacture??

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Sea or touring kayak is what I’m looking for.  I’m trying  to learn as much as I can before buying..  I use to do a lot of canoeing when I was younger. Kayaks look like they would be a lot of fun.. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s a horrible question to ask. It depends on what you’re looking for. Prijon probably has the most durable boats, while Riot has the most radical designs. Wavesport has great plastic and designs… etc. Not to mention, whitewater companies are completely different in this area than touring, slalom, and sea kayaks. Sam —    Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool. Who is the best kayak manufacture??

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Question:

Dustin, I don’t know how much time you have, but there is a place about a three or four hour drive north of Anchorage called Talkeetna.

(lots of good stuff snipped) Bill

Bill – I think Talkeetna is the best town I have ever encountered.  Anyhow, I was in that area last June, but unfortunately didn’t know about the Indian river, even though I had done a fair amount of research before the trip. I guess I missed a great side trip.  Nice to hear about it anyway. Mark Faulkner

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Hello Anglers, I am going up to alaska on a cruise and am looking for places to fish within driving distance of Anchorage or as a shore excursion at either Juneau, Ketchikan, or Skagway.  Any ideas?? Dustin

Dustin, I don’t know how much time you have, but there is a place about a three or four hour drive north of Anchorage called Talkeetna. From Thursday to Sunday a train runs daily into the back country and will let you off anywhere along its’ route. It follows the Indian River(salmon, rainbows, dollys, grayling, and probably other species I didn’t personally catch) and the ride itself is beautiful. I would highly recommend this trip, to the point of excluding other options or extending your trip to include it. I spent 3 weeks in Alaska and if I went back, that is where I would go. We camped overnite in the "Canyon" section of the Indian River, the spot we pitched our tent was within 100 feet of the tracks. Aside from the occasional train, complete solitude. You could flyfish nude and have sex wherever you want, without fear of prying eyes. I mention this only because the solitude brought on those kind of thoughts. The grayling came to dries readily, and it was fairly easy to spot fish. This, in my opinion, is a must do, even if you have to rent camping gear. There is also Montana Creek(actually a river) near Talkeetna, where I C&R’d a five pound ‘bow’. South of Anchorage there are alot of great spots on the Kenai Peninsula. Skagway is a bust for fishing. Juneau & Ketchikan I couldn’t tell you about. If you want more info, e-mail me phone too if you’d like. Bill

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Hello Anglers, I am going up to alaska on a cruise and am looking for places to fish within driving distance of Anchorage or as a shore excursion at either Juneau, Ketchikan, or Skagway.  Any ideas?? Dustin

Practically all the cruise ships have some spare time in most of the ports.  There will be an abundance of outfitters frequenting the ships wilh all type of wares including fishing trips.  They are usually short, overpriced, and usually in saltwater due to the schedule the cruise ships must maintain.  Don’t get me wrong, a cruise is a great way to see the southeast but a less than adequate way to fish it. Mac McCaskill

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Anglers, I am going up to alaska on a cruise and am looking for places to fish within driving distance of Anchorage or as a shore excursion at either Juneau, Ketchikan, or Skagway.  Any ideas?? Dustin Practically all the cruise ships have some spare time in most of the ports.  There will be an abundance of outfitters frequenting the ships wilh all type of wares including fishing trips.  They are usually short, overpriced, and usually in saltwater due to the schedule the cruise ships must maintain.  Don’t get me wrong, a cruise is a great way to see the southeast but a less than adequate way to fish it. Mac McCaskill

I think Mac’s right.  I visited last summer, but not on a cruise.  There are places within driving distance of Anchorage, but it depends on what you mean by "driving distance".  For example, the Kenai Peninsula area is two-three hours each way, but that means a full (and long) day if you want to drive there, fish, say, the Russian River, and return to the ship.   I think it is Campbell Creek which runs right through Anchorage and has salmon runs – but which and when I don’t recall.  Depending on your time, you might want to contact a fly shop in Anchorage and see if a guide can be arranged through them.  There is a ton of stuff on the web about Alaska, so a few hours with your browser may get you some good information.  Finally, keep looking here, because I know there are folks on ROFF who know a lot about Alaska fishing. Mark Faulkner

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Hello Anglers, I am going up to alaska on a cruise and am looking for places to fish within driving distance of Anchorage or as a shore excursion at either Juneau, Ketchikan, or Skagway.  Any ideas?? Dustin

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Question:

Hey: I’m interested in doing some flyfishing in the Florida Keys next April. Can anybody give me recommendations on guides in that area for tapon and bonefish?  This is my first trip.

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Hey: I’m interested in doing some flyfishing in the Florida Keys next April. Can anybody give me recommendations on guides in that area for tapon and bonefish?  This is my first trip.

Hi Brian, This is a good time to book a guide for next spring. April/May/June is prime time. All the top guides have tackle for the day(s) you are with them. If you want to wade or rent a boat on your own then you need some tackle. I would call West and if he doesn’t have any days left he will know some other high quality guides in the Keys. He is considered in the top of his field and is also lots of fun to fish with. You can see him in the Billy Pate Tarpon fishing videos. As you can tell he is one of my heros.  . Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

Several people have entered into a purposeful discussion of the best way to use two flies……   related comment, but not on topic exactly…. I drove a very good friend of mine to the hospital with the second hook  ( the one not in the fish) deeeeeeeppppply embedded in his finger.    This hook was driven into his finger when the 10 pound steelhead he reach for… suddenly thrashed about.   Months later, infection etc… he still has scars…. I fish with only one fly now…. Alan E. Hoover

Yep, had that happen also Alan.  I was posing with a nice rainbow for a photo when the dropper with PT nymph flicked onto my index finger of my dominate hand.  When the shutter clacked the fish went flying and I got the hook deep. It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting knife during lunch break.  It sure was hard casting with that thing in there the remainder of the morning. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Several people have entered into a purposeful discussion of the best way to use two flies……   related comment, but not on topic exactly…. I drove a very good friend of mine to the hospital with the second hook  ( the one not in the fish) deeeeeeeppppply embedded in his finger.    This hook was driven into his finger when the 10 pound steelhead he reach for… suddenly thrashed about.   Months later, infection etc… he still has scars…. I fish with only one fly now…. Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting k Damn, Burton.  Fishing must have been slow if you took a couple of hours for lunch break!  :^) I saw a flyfishing show over the weekend that featured atlantic salmon fishing in Iceland.  They have an interesting regulation there.  The stream must be "rested" from 11:00am until 4:00pm (that means no fishing of any kind) every day.  Of course, at that latitude daylight goes until 10:00pm so there is plenty of time.

That’s an intresting concept.  It might be worth trying on some of our streams in the summer.  Different hours though. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting knife during lunch break.  It sure was hard casting with that thing in there the remainder of the morning. Damn, Burton.  Fishing must have been slow if you took a couple of hours for lunch break!  :^) Tight Lines, preferably attached to ‘fish’, Charley

Nah, actually it was a good morning – pretty long.  It was just a long slow process cautiously getting down to the barb.  I’m no surgeon and had to wing it.  My fishing partner was taking a nap.  When I got ready to attempt pulling it out, I left the camper so I wouldn’t wake him if I yelled.  I grabbed it with tweezers and it popped right out.  That was the only one I forgot to pinch the barb on – talk about fate and retribution. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Several people have entered into a purposeful discussion of the best way to use two flies……   related comment, but not on topic exactly….

Fishing a team of 2 or 3 flies is common in Ireland and Scotland especially where Seatrout and Salmon are expected on the same water. I invariably fish a double or triple hooked Salmon pattern on the tail with two droppers for Seatrout. If it is blowing a full gale and I start to tangle I might cut one dropper off. I have one friend who regularly fishes a team of 4 flies but he is so expert that he has the nickname of "Tightlines" I drove a very good friend of mine to the hospital with the second hook  ( the one not in the fish) deeeeeeeppppply embedded in his finger.    This hook was driven into his finger It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting knife during lunch break.

This hooking yourself business has cropped up before but I’ll say it again anyway. You do not have to go to the surgery or take a knife to yourself. Put your thumb very firmly on the eye end of the hook. Tie a bit of stout lanyard around the bend of the hook and give a firm pull away from the direction of the hook’s entry. You have to be bold. It works. There’s a bit of blood and it hurts, but you will be fishing again in 5 minutes. Mind you I’ve never tried it with a hook in the eye or eyelid. Has anyone ? — Ian McCowen – Polwarth Manse, Greenlaw, Berwickshire TD10 6YR SCOTLAND (fine old books on Shooting, Fishing, Natural History bought & sold)

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It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting knife during lunch break.  It sure was hard casting with that thing in there the remainder of the morning.

Damn, Burton.  Fishing must have been slow if you took a couple of hours for lunch break!  :^) Tight Lines, preferably attached to ‘fish’, Charley

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Here in Taupo we regularly use two nymphs on the bigger rivers. The first nymph is very heavy, we are not allowed to add lead to the line, and the second nymph, lighter. The second nymph is invariably tied off to the bend of the first hook, about 12 to 18 inches behind. If casting where it is possible, the best technique is to allow the nymphs to hit the water on the back cast, this ‘water haul’ helps to straighten out the line and fully load the rod. As several others have noted, try and cast an open loop, and also try and change the ‘plane’ at which the rod moves from the forward to back cast. Even so it is all pretty ugly to purist casters, but it gets the job done. We also tend to use shooting heads or weight forward tapers that have a short forward section. Despite all the above this type of casting is called here, chuck and duck, definitely a hard hat area. — Tony Bishop Fish with Bish Taupo New Zealand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I : cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle : up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the : leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap : around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one : too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the : base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and : I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot : I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any : advice, Arek.

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Burton,         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen. Yeah, especially when a big fish is making a run and that second fly gets it’s barb caught on a rock.  Argh…!

        Etched forever in my memory is such an experience with a large         rainbow on the Madison River.  I was fishing a salmon fly with         an X-Caddis on a dropper.  The fish took the caddis (as usual),         and just when things were approaching the point where I was         thinking about a net, the fish made a pass by the boat and the         salmon fly got caught on the anchor line.  The salmon fly came         to an abrupt halt.  The fish, caddis fly and dropper didn’t.         I just stared at the errant salmon fly for some time, trying         to fully absorb the reality of the situation.  The image is         still vivid.         In fishing, as with everything else, there is no such thing as         a free lunch.  Fishing two flies may well double, or at least         increase the probability of hooking a fish, but there is a         price to be paid.  That being said, I still do it on a regular         basis.                                         Tom Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 External Research Program                          FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I : cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle : up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the : leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap : around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one : too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the : base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and : I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot : I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any : advice, Arek. : Arek: :    The only thing I could add to the previous post is that you may : need to pay more attention to your casting. Open that casting loop a : bit so that you’re not throwing a very tight loop and you sure need to : make sure that the back cast is fully extended before starting the : forward cast so that east doesn’t meet west. I generally will use the : same diameter tippet for the point fly as I’m using for the top one. : Jim There is some debate whether to put the heavy fly at the end or the lighter fly.  My experience is that if you cast a tighter loop, put the small fly on the end.  If you can cast a wider loop, put the heavy fly at the end. Pete

Use a lob cast or a circle cast. Very few tangles using two flies with these casts. –tony

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I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time. –I tie a Bimini twist, snip the loop at lengths desire for top and

dropper.  I works really well. dj

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2 nymphs…deadly, but beware. Your chances of foul hooking the fish as he rejects the first fly is hugely increased.  Your chances of mortally wounding the fish as the trailer wraps in its gills is also greatly increased.   Not that you should worry…just truth.  One whitefish this weekend had a nice 6cm gash in its belly from being foul hooked on my dropper #20 coachman, guts visible.  kilt it. smoked it. et it. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I : cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle : up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the : leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap : around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one : too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the : base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and : I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot : I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any : advice, Arek. : Arek: :    The only thing I could add to the previous post is that you may : need to pay more attention to your casting. Open that casting loop a : bit so that you’re not throwing a very tight loop and you sure need to : make sure that the back cast is fully extended before starting the : forward cast so that east doesn’t meet west. I generally will use the : same diameter tippet for the point fly as I’m using for the top one. : Jim There is some debate whether to put the heavy fly at the end or the lighter fly.  My experience is that if you cast a tighter loop, put the small fly on the end.  If you can cast a wider loop, put the heavy fly at the end. Pete

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I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any advice, Arek.

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I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any

I fish this way most of the time.  The "dropper" leader is usually lighter than my main leader because the fly is always smaller.  I use no special knot, but have seen a blood knot reccomended, as well as the Surgeon’s knot. The length of the dropper leader should be around 4 inches (18 inches up the leader from the "point fly"), much longer than this and it twist around the main leader, too short and it takes action out of the dropper fly.  I think the key is not to have a weighted fly on the dropper.  Just a small nymph, wet or emerger. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Arek, You can you use what ever size tippet you prefer and secure it to the gape of the first hook with a regular old improved clinch Knot.  Or you can place a loop somwhere in your leader and attach the two leaders loop to leader loop…no knot. They will tangle once in awhile…It wouldn’t be fly fishing if you didn’t get a tangle or two now and then.  One the leader material starts to become twisted…replace it right away….will prevent snarls. Good luck.  Email me with any questions.Works for me…I am sure there are probably other methods…we do not usually false cast these set-ups much… Regards, James Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any advice, Arek.

Hi Arek I’ve always used and "in-line dropper system." Start by tying on your first fly, then tie an 18" or so piece of tippet to the bend of the first hook. Tie your second fly on the second piece of tippet. I use a Unit Knot or Clinch Knot (improved). I have fished up to three flies in this manner but two are easier to cast. Also you can fish a dry fly as your first fly with a nymph under it using the dry as your strike indicator. Or for old folks like me whose eyes are not as good as they used to be use a larger dry fly with a real small dry fly as the dropper. The bigger dry will give you a fairly good idea where the small fly is located. Good Tying & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

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I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any advice, Arek.

Hello Arek, I have experienced the same problems as you describe. The best (to date) solution for me is to tie the first nymph to the end of the tippet and then attach a second piece of tippet to the bend of the first nymph with an improved cinch knot. I use 18 to 24 inches of tippet and tie on the second nymph. Using heavy nymphs requires a special technique – the chuck and duck. You might want to experiment on the placement of the heavier nymph– first or second fly. I also use the technique with the first fly being a dry fly and the second either a small nymph, soft hackle, or in some cases, another too small-to-see dry fly. The first fly becomes a fishing strike indicator. Good luck and let us know how your experimenting works out. Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com

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Arek writes, in part: <<I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time…… In Maine, it is illegal to use split shot with a fly.  So, I first tie on a bead head (or other weighted nymph) and tie my "intended lure" onto the bead head’s hook bend with about two feet of tippet of the *same* size.  I have no problems with the flies getting tangled — they are for all intents and purposes a single strand.  With this method, I can experiment with the size of the bead head to get deeper or shallower depending on the type water I am fishing.  Another way to do it, and it is easier, is to tie on about 2-3 feet of tippet using a double surgeon’s knot or barrell knot and leave a foot or less of the tag end intact — i.e., do not cut the tag end short.  This works just as well as the first method and is easier to tie.  I sometimes use a large dry fly (#12 Elk Hair Caddis tied with CDC feathers) tied to the leader and about 2 feet of tippet (same size!) tied to it’s hook bend, with an appropriate caddis nymph tied on as the dropper.  The dry fly then acts as a strike indicator —  I once caught a small brookie on the dry fly and while landing it, a larger brookie took the Rhyacophila nymph!  I lost the larger trout, but managed to land the little fella — fun and games when you have two on at once!! Sorry for the rambling reply, but I hope it helps. Good drifts, Paul LaCourse  

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I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any advice, Arek.

Arek:    The only thing I could add to the previous post is that you may need to pay more attention to your casting. Open that casting loop a bit so that you’re not throwing a very tight loop and you sure need to make sure that the back cast is fully extended before starting the forward cast so that east doesn’t meet west. I generally will use the same diameter tippet for the point fly as I’m using for the top one. Jim

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Arek, I have tried fishing two flies, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen.

Yeah, especially when a big fish is making a run and that second fly gets it’s barb caught on a rock.  Argh…! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Burton,         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen. Yeah, especially when a big fish is making a run and that second fly gets it’s barb caught on a rock.  Argh…!         The salmon fly came         to an abrupt halt.  The fish, caddis fly and dropper didn’t.         I just stared at the errant salmon fly for some time, trying         to fully absorb the reality of the situation.  The image is         still vivid.

That’s why I added the Argh!  I’ve had this happen a couple of times, once with a nice steelhead on.  Image my embarrasment when I finally realized I was fighting a rock.  You are right the image is very vivid. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Arek, I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.

        What I do is tie the larger of the two flies to the end of the         tippet, then tie a second tippet to the eye of the first fly.         The second tippet is usually about 18" long, and often of a         smaller diameter than the first tippet.  The second fly is         tied to the end of the second tippet.  This method does not         seem to have a significant effect on drift or hooking.         Tangles are almost impossible to avoid if a dropper is used.         Most casting tangles can be avoided with a bit of care, but         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen.                                         Tom Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 External Research Program                          FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arek, I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.         What I do is tie the larger of the two flies to the end of the         tippet, then tie a second tippet to the eye of the first fly.         The second tippet is usually about 18" long, and often of a         smaller diameter than the first tippet.  The second fly is         tied to the end of the second tippet.  This method does not         seem to have a significant effect on drift or hooking.         Tangles are almost impossible to avoid if a dropper is used.         Most casting tangles can be avoided with a bit of care, but         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen.                                         Tom Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 External Research Program                          FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

What we used to do for two flies, was use an extension of the heavier leader material to tie the dropper to. Sometimes you needed two or three x-ratings differential to assure you wouldn’t tangle. This required good knots where the two mono sizes were joined. Jim N.

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I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.

I use a surgeon’s knot to attach a tippet, and I tie one fly to each of the two tippet tails.  I leave one tail long (18") and one short (6"). I tie a big dry fly to the short tail and a nymph to the other.  Then I cast great big wide loops.  It works OK for me.  Yes the casting is a little laborious, but it is pretty exciting when you get two lunker dace  on at once! Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arek, I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.         What I do is tie the larger of the two flies to the end of the         tippet, then tie a second tippet to the eye of the first fly.         The second tippet is usually about 18" long, and often of a         smaller diameter than the first tippet.  The second fly is         tied to the end of the second tippet.  This method does not         seem to have a significant effect on drift or hooking.         Tangles are almost impossible to avoid if a dropper is used.         Most casting tangles can be avoided with a bit of care, but         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen.

Hi Tom and Arek, I tie the second tippet to the bend of the first fly with an improved cinch knot and then tie the second fly on the end of the tippet. I usually use about 24" of tippet. I have experimented with using the heavier fly as the first or second fly. I think fewer tangles are encountered when the heavier fly is on the bottom. Again experiment with using the a dry fly as the first fly with a lightly weighted nymph, soft hackle, or a tiny dry fly as the second fly. The first fly serves as a fishing strike indicator. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

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Question:

I fail to see how you can consider his god politically correct. The homophobia in the writing comes across loud and clear.

G’day Yerself Quentin I’m not so sure he is a he but *his* god, if indeed he is a he, is definitely he/she for it is written ..by he/she, and that makes it true doesn’t it?  Reinventing the deity to fit the superstition is standard stuff of course and can’t be expected to meet with your approval or mine. Whoever wrote the thing is by definition homophobic and speaking from the other camp, no, no, no pun intended, oh, all right I’ve been working it in all along, I have to wonder about his/her friends, and how he/ she goes about categorically sorting them, I mean to say, would it be all right to be just a little bit gay?  Sheila’s had her hair cut short better keep an eye on her, that voice, and Troy, well would you just look at her, ..sorry, carried away, it’s all these gay pals of mine cluttering up the prose synapses, and what about Mervyn the Moustache OK bad example but you know what I mean.  The homophobia you have to live with my friend, its the homo sapiens phobia worries the shit out of me. See you in the war zone. — Robert

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I am the Voice of the Lord of the Cats i am the voice of the  Dogs and the Rats And the Word of God you have now heard…..

You are the voice of a pig-ignorant wanker it seems to me but your pc god is a bit of a bastard so I better not say too much.  You don’t fly-fish by any chance?  No, no, of course you don’t, silly of me.  Well, here’s to pain sunbeam, and keep taking the tablets. — Robert Maughan

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I am the Voice of the Lord of the Cats i am the voice of the  Dogs and the Rats And the Word of God you have now heard….. You are the voice of a pig-ignorant wanker it seems to me but your pc god is a bit of a bastard so I better not say too much.  You don’t fly-fish by any chance?  No, no, of course you don’t, silly of me.  Well, here’s to pain sunbeam, and keep taking the tablets. — Robert Maughan

G’day G’day Robert, I fail to see how you can consider his god politically correct. The homophobia in the writing comes across loud and clear. Life on Earth has evolved in such wondrous ways preceding by millions of years many of the tenants of nlp,  such as "When something doesn’t work, do something else."  "The element with the most flexibility ….etc  "       Consider this. Some species of mushrooms have thousands of sexes. This makes it easier for the wind bourn spores to find and engage another individual in sexual reproduction.  For those who follow the path that creation by design implies a designer, denial of this sexual diversity is blasphemy.   Denying the creation, denies the creator created.   Tut tut. Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       #,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading."

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fail to see how you can consider his god politically correct. The homophobia in the writing comes across loud and clear. G’day Yerself Quentin I’m not so sure he is a he but *his* god, if indeed he is a he, is definitely he/she for it is written ..by he/she, and that makes it true doesn’t it?  Reinventing the deity to fit the superstition is standard stuff of course and can’t be expected to meet with your approval or mine. Whoever wrote the thing is by definition homophobic and speaking from the other camp, no, no, no pun intended, oh, all right I’ve been working it in all along, I have to wonder about his/her friends, and how he/ she goes about categorically sorting them, I mean to say, would it be all right to be just a little bit gay?  Sheila’s had her hair cut short better keep an eye on her, that voice, and Troy, well would you just look at her, ..sorry, carried away, it’s all these gay pals of mine cluttering up the prose synapses, and what about Mervyn the Moustache OK bad example but you know what I mean.  The homophobia you have to live with my friend, its the homo sapiens phobia worries the shit out of me. See you in the war zone. — Robert

Gosh, you ARE homophobianly gay!  Worries you?  Who thinks they have anything worth bringing to your attention to ‘worry you?"  You flatter yourself darling. Mr. G./the Critic.

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Hate could not win, but fought at length,                       page 7 till near to death in Soul-reserves of strength (which "death" is far worse in Significance, than the relatively pleasant Transition from earth to here), the devils finally  Submitted to our way, and Set himself even tries to help today. So be Inspired, and never get tired and work  towards that final State which god for all has kept in wait : Eternal life beyond Orion’s star is not a dream, nor even so far; Tis the lotus of your heart which at This instant grows and is the only thing you`ll take, when you pass So make sure its facets are bright and clean, and the Flower within is fit to be seen. These features are, in you controlled by Moral decisions with such powers as you hold; your Mind in fact, is a shimmering light entrapped within the Physical plight you call a body and bury – rather than burn. Tis a bit strange, it sometimes seems to us that your self-Respect so dulled  in sight oft thinks that "you" could be eaten by worm. Raise up your confidence !  improve your Goals  ! "death" is but a lengthened sleep; In minor form you die each night so why think of it with so much fright ? From dust  to dust, your  body by Knum is raised then thrown but "you" go on from life to Life, until you`ve grown in Status enough to remember  All just  Who you were and why did you Fall, But  great  shocks are in store for the murderous heart who thinks that the Animals dont have a part. for most of the  humans now  alive if tracked back far enough  thru the Hive, were once in Four-legged forms on earth and struggled like them to assert your worth. So watch your step with each love you abuse, the Quadrupeds are younger you’s. They have their rights, and Will be paid for all the misery that you’ve laid on their  Route, no fault their own as trying to be like people, they’ve grown. Disgusting Race – its time you evolved                          page 8 The eating of animals, and sexual Mal-acts blood-lust and enslavement, were the primary facts put to the Gods  by satan’s  rage, and now its taking us  many an Age to clean up the mess and  restore  THE PLAN; Anyway, – play your part and help us if you can. But if good advice you cannot see in what i  say, youd better to throw your computers away your ’science’  books are naught but Mire, to minds that that refuse to see the higher purpose of their  place in life. Enough for  now, Return to Silence. meditate ….. I am the Voice of the Lord of the Cats i am the voice of the  Dogs and the Rats And the Word of God you have now heard….. Think on this as you go to bed, and in the morning prepare to Reform or resign; change your job and Seek  love’s  Peace. Altho *some* experimentation can have proper purpose of course, the wholesale Butchery of this narration is beyond  the Pale of  moral toleration. More honour would be thine to sweep the streets, than to draw your salary from such Hideous behaviours as we have seen, but the prime Responsibility is with your Governments, so let them  know – if your support is ours…..                               Aten Kaman,       internet    October 96                               extract from the  Book of  Kamanism 1982 ALT.PAGAN,   alt.religion.wicca, sci.philosophy.meta, alt.psychology.nlp, soc.religion.bahai, talk.origins, talk.philosophy.humanism, christnet.poetry,

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Question:

After reading all the posts about upland bird hunting and grouse stocking in the ff’er group, it got me to thinking (Hmmm… thought I smelled wood burning!) about the proper shotgun for trout.

An English side-by-side with a splinter fore end and a straight stock, only, and *only* over a pointing dog.   Waxing my Barbour coat and waiting for a call from my broker, David

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: Say! what about going after grouse with a 6 weight rod?  I have heard about : people catching pigeons with a threaded piece of dried corn. Time to re-hash the stories about bat-casting….

i always practice C&R on them…and ouzels…not much meat on a bat, but the wings (I’ve heard) make excellent jerky. TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After reading all the posts about upland bird hunting and grouse stocking in the ff’er group, it got me to thinking (Hmmm… thought I smelled wood burning!) about the proper shotgun for trout. It would seem to me that you might want to go with variable chokes depending on if trout were feeding on the surface or not. The AR folks could always practice blast and release. Say! what about going after grouse with a 6 weight rod?  I have heard about people catching pigeons with a threaded piece of dried corn. Regards, Frank. Self appointed treasurer of the Mountain Home Benevolent Trout Fishers Assosciation. Motto:  Your dues are due. P.S.  I’m going nuts.  I haven’t been able to fish for awhile, and if I don’t soak my lower half in some cold water soon, I’m done for.

Hi Frank I’ve got some yellow Brazilian Velour that should make a great corn fly. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

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After reading all the posts about upland bird hunting and grouse stocking in the ff’er group, it got me to thinking (Hmmm… thought I smelled wood burning!) about the proper shotgun for trout. It would seem to me that you might want to go with variable chokes depending on if trout were feeding on the surface or not. The AR folks could always practice blast and release. Say! what about going after grouse with a 6 weight rod?  I have heard about people catching pigeons with a threaded piece of dried corn. Regards, Frank. Self appointed treasurer of the Mountain Home Benevolent Trout Fishers Assosciation. Motto:  Your dues are due. P.S.  I’m going nuts.  I haven’t been able to fish for awhile, and if I don’t soak my lower half in some cold water soon, I’m done for.

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