Question:

I know ‘zackly what you mean, Charlie. I spend too much time there also. The guy you referred to is "Mac" who is famous for ruining production rods and then listing them as "restored". His latest kick is plaid signature wraps. But then, there ARE still a few deals showing up daily. I snagged a Courtney Ryley Cooper SB/Doublebuilt for $71 last week and a good friend made off with an unidentified Ray Bergman/Dickerson for the ridiculous sum of $36 + shipping. Vigilance pays off sometimes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

I feel for you and have noticed the same thing in the local equivilent, lots of cheap gear with unrealistic prices on them. On the other hand I recently put a scsi card up for auction at half its used value.I was abused for putting a "high" price on it. Damned if I was going to put a $4000 scsi controller (still in shrink wrap) on auction for 30 bucks. There are a hell of a lot of unscrupulous dealers out there and many people the law in the states regarding false claims when selling something. There must be something around to stop them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

 I haven’t worked for any sellers and I don’t think  I’m stupid (tho I did take up flyfishing after a fashion  this last year, so may that’s questionable…).  But I  don’t have any interest in planning my life around  eBay pumpkin times to buy Yet Another Thing  that I do not really need.  Whatever this thing that I  can’t live without is, it will inevitably pop up again,  either on eBay or somewhere else.

     Good advise, generally. I let a lot of desirable things go, just because I couldn’t be near the computer at the time of their closing (a man has to fish, you know). The point I tried to make is, if you bid twenty dollars with ten hours till closing, somebody is more likely to come along and outbid you, whereas the same bid right at closing is more likely to get the item. I don’t buy *anything* unless I get a good deal on it, and I’m not the only puter user in the world who recognizes a good deal.      I picked up an item last week that I really wanted, but I couldn’t be around the computer at the time of closing. The item (I’d never seen one like it before) had gone six days without a bid, but I figured other sharks (like me) were circling in the waters. With ten hours to go, I bid twice the opening price (and a third the real value) and left for the day, allowing the proxy bid to do it’s thing. I returned that evening to find I’d won the item for a price just fifty cents under my max. A review of the bid history revealed a bidding war had erupted in the final six minutes of the auction, and I was literally saved by the bell. If I hadn’t won it wouldn’t have mattered anyway, because it’s only stuff.

Response:

 That’s the best advice re eBay.  Further, I would  make that "max you’re willing to pay" at least 20  to 25 percent less than I would be willing to pay  through another venue.  If you get the item and it is  what was advertised, you’ve done well.  If you don’t  get it it’s no big deal, invariably another one will  come along.

Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  If you use common sense and check for bad feedback, it helps.  Paying with PayPal or other credit card service also helps protect you.  If you’re not buying something pretty rare, and you’re not in a big rush, you can get respectable deals.

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 "Jeff Connelly" Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  That’s in the same ballpark as my experiences:  I’ve had 2 not very good transactions out of a  total of about 70.

    I have been burned three times out of 100+ transactions. All three of the bad deals were bamboo fly rods; I’ve never gotten a bum deal on other types of merchandise.

Response:

It’s a numbers game.  Play enough and you will get burned.  I wuz 3 out of 100 + and no bamboo rods! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Jeff Connelly" Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  That’s in the same ballpark as my experiences:  I’ve had 2 not very good transactions out of a  total of about 70.    I have been burned three times out of 100+ transactions. All three of the bad deals were bamboo fly rods; I’ve never gotten a bum deal on other types of merchandise.

Response:

Good idea and good advice, but not always permitted under eBays rules.  If a seller refuses your return privilege request/demand after you’ve won, he can legitimately post negative feedback about you and eBay would stand behind the seller every time.

Oh, one more thing regarding feedback.  Feedback is only slightly useful because it’s 2-way feedback, and after a number of years I’ve come to the conclusion feedback should be sent to the seller only.  Otherwise, it’s just a game where people know they will usually get negative feedback in retaliation for giving negative feedback.  Therefore, I believe most people don’t give negative feedback ever.  Many sellers have much less negative feedback than they deserve.  One way feedback, such as on Amazon, seems to work much better.  Moral of the story: if an eBay seller has much negative feedback, you should avoid him.  If he doesn’t – well, you really don’t know much.

Response:

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.

   Sorry to add to my own thread, but I just noticed this Heddon has a short tip, so it’s opening price was about $200.00 more than it is worth. It has now been "bid up" to approximately 3X what it’s really worth.    And fwiw, last week I purchased a higher grade Heddon, in better shape. I paid $200.00 + shipping to a reputable dealer from Michigan.

Response:

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay.

As long as you sell (almost) as much as you buy, you’ll be alright What’s that?  You end up buying a lot more than you sell??  :-) I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon.

Between me and especially my brother we’ve seen a lot of eBay action, and this and much more does go on.  It’s virtually unstoppable in the long run. There’s really only one way around it for the buyer, and it’s quite simple… Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.

…know what the value of the item you want to buy.  This is obviously true no matter what you buy – it’s not an eBay thing.  Well, maybe I oversimplified, because in some cases where an item is very rare, it’s the other bids that help you determine its value.  eBay is a good value-meter for things that are not unique, and that a good number of transactions occur for.  For the life of me though, I can’t understand people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid".  So freakin’ what?  Proxy bid the max that you’re willing to pay.  There is one thing that sellers can get away with though that’s unethical.  Use a fake name to raise the bid if you think a buyer has proxy-bidded higher than his actual bid.  If you go over it by mistake, just retract the bid.  That way you have a way of knowing how high a person will go, and make him go there.  I don’t think eBay would let you get away with it more than a few times though.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay.

The best defense I’ve found against counterfeits, unethical dealers, etc. is a good credit card company.  If you have a good one, they’ll back you up when you refuse payment on an item.  One of the problems with eBay transactions is that there tends to be too many places to lay blame, so everyone points somewhere else.  eBay points to the seller or to a mediator (which is not free), the seller of course won’t help, the payment company (PayPal or whoever) points to the FBI, the FBI isn’t going to take it seriously, or the payment company points to your credit card company.  If your credit card company is good, the buck stops there and you’re covered. I think internet buying and selling is the greatest thing since the electric guitar, but buying rare or unique items without seeing them in person is tough.

Response:

There was one about a month back that I got a kick out of. One of the ebay regulars that refinishes rods with glossy new varnish had a Granger rod – I think. He said it was a Granger rod, however, He replaced the grip with one that didn’t match the original, replaced the reeelseat with an antique aluminum one, replaced the ferrules and guides. He even removed the granger stamp from the rod and wrote Granger on it. Sounds just a little suspicious to me. Paul

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay.

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

For the life of me though, I can’t understand

people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid".  So freakin’ what?<   I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed.

Response:

I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed.

In the few instances I’ve been a participant in these last second bids, it’s been fun to watch.   For my part, I’ve never really regretted being beat at the last second.   I bid what I’m willing to pay.   If somebody’s willing to pay more, good for them.   I’ve never felt bad about losing one that way. Joe F.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed. In the few instances I’ve been a participant in these last second bids, it’s been fun to watch.   For my part, I’ve never really regretted being beat at the last second.   I bid what I’m willing to pay.   If somebody’s willing to pay more, good for them.   I’ve never felt bad about losing one that way. Joe F.

joe, the animosity generated plum evades me. back in my golden years when i travelled to quite a few thousand auctions buying antiques, libraries, estates and such, i set my limit….. and since i was pretty much a foolish bidder, if some fool outbid me…. well, congrats, nicely done. all i can say is i never regretted winning and i never regretted nor angered over losing. i take that back…. my only regret is that i didn’t go to 27k on a full bronze figurine at an auction outside of daytona beach one evening….  i believe the fool that out-bid me would have dropped out and i would today be enjoying the finest deco sculpture i’ve ever seen… enjoying daily cuz i never would have sold her…. course, marie probably would have divorced my silly ass. ah well…that’s life…. you win some and you lose some. anyway…. the point being…. at auction, and at ebay, thars a hammer. when it slams down… the *last* bidder wins….tain’t much use losing sleep over it…imho. –walt

Response:

For the life of me though, I can’t understand people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid.

     Groundless bitching it is. The earlier a bidding war gets started, the higher the price inevitably goes. You gotta play by the home court rules, and use all the legal tactics. When I see something I *really* want, I get involved in the last couple of minutes. Anybody who hasn’t figured this out doesn’t deserve to win the bid. And anybody who actively bids an item with days to go is either stupid or working for the seller. I think internet buying and selling is the greatest thing since the electric guitar, but buying rare or unique items without seeing them in person is tough.

    Agree

Response:

He said it was a Granger rod, however, He replaced the grip with one that didn’t match the original, replaced the reeelseat with an antique aluminum one, replaced the ferrules and guides. He even removed the granger stamp from the rod and wrote Granger on it. Sounds just a little suspicious to me.

Did it have a number on it, by any chance? {;-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

<snip    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.

Good idea and good advice, but not always permitted under eBays rules.  If a seller refuses your return privilege request/demand after you’ve won, he can legitimately post negative feedback about you and eBay would stand behind the seller every time.  If you want a return privilege, send the seller an e-mail BEFORE you bid, unless there is some sort of return policy/guarantee in the items description and/or auction terms.  It doesn’t take much negative feedback to get people really turned off about dealing with you.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.

Wow.  I haven’t been shopping for bamboo rods, but what you describe here is downright amazing.  Good deal for the seller, I guess.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

I’ve done more selling than buying on eBay, and none of it fishing-related. As a seller, I can honestly state that I have never ripped anybody off.  One guy did buy an old clone PC from me and he paid more for shipping than he did for the PC.  He may have been a fool, but I didn’t rip him off. As a buyer, my experience is much more limited.  Initially, I wasn’t playing like an eBay vulture–so I always got outbid.  More recently I bought some books and got a tremendous deal.  Six hardback novels from the 70s for less than $20, shipping and all, all in excellent condition. With any sort of ‘collectible’ item, or anything of significant value–say over $100–I’d be careful.  There are LOTS of eBay scam artists out there, and plenty of them never get caught.  A slight misrepresentation can result in a practically valueless item being bid up as if it were the real thing. Caveat Emptor never rang more true than the day eBay arrived. Tom G eBay vulture

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Question:

Any one fly fish for sea trout. I’ll be spending Nov. and Dec. near Tarpon Springs. Last yr I fished with a friend with live shrimp and we caught alot. This yr Id like to catch them on flies. any info would be helpful on flies , ect Thanks , Dick Roberts Navajo Dam , NM

Response:

Hi Dick and you other ROFFers out there, I don’t have the answers right now myself, but I know that they catch Seatrout or Speckled Trout in the Gulf Of Mexico on flies. You need to do just what you are doing. There will be a prime time or prime times for getting them on flies. This will probably have to do with the weather, migration of bait fish or shrimp or the spawning run of Seatrout? I would probably contact some manufacturer like Sage Rod Company and get a name of a good fly shop or guide in the area. Then I would call them with a paper and pen in front of me and start asking questions. This is what I do for a living with my fly shop. Knowing when to go somewhere for the best fishing is probably the number one variable. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any one fly fish for sea trout. I’ll be spending Nov. and Dec. near Tarpon Springs. Last yr I fished with a friend with live shrimp and we caught alot. This yr Id like to catch them on flies. any info would be helpful on flies , ect Thanks , Dick Roberts Navajo Dam , NM

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Question:

Does anybody know any good rivers to fish in this area?

Response:

You might want to try going to the "GEOGRPHICAL LISTINGS" under "UNITED STATES" "TEXAS" at http://www.davisbrown.com/fflnk.html  The links may help you find a local info source.  Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody know any good rivers to fish in this area?

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Go to almost any flyshop in Texas and buy a copy of "Flyfishing the Texas Hill Country" got almost anything you need to know? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You might want to try going to the "GEOGRPHICAL LISTINGS" under "UNITED STATES" "TEXAS" at http://www.davisbrown.com/fflnk.html  The links may help you find a local info source.  Good luck. Does anybody know any good rivers to fish in this area?

Response:

Nathan, you may also contact the Guadalupe River TU group at www.grtu.org. They have fishing reports and good info on the area. SAB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anybody know any good rivers to fish in [Central Texas]?

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Question:

All FS98 has to do is present me with only the slightest recreation of the afternoon I flew a 172 out over the Atlantic for the first time atop a broken undercast from Cape Cod to Nantucket Island and the thrill of it just comes flooding back.  Every time. Phillip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seriously, the saddest thing about it was that I haven’t been able to enjoy the sims ever since…  After well over a decade of flying the computer, I suddenly realized just how much they *don’t* capture the feeling of flight, even with the latest and greatest.  Anyone else have a similar experience? Yeah, I find that real flying can be very emotional. The feeling of freedom, the exhilarating feeling of speed when your just a few feet above cloud level. I remember one particular time when flying above unbroken cloud, for as far as the eye could see in all directions there was just this smooth white sea and the sky above was the most beautiful blue you could imagine. It was like being on another world, the Earth didn’t even exist for a minute or two. It was awe inspiring, brought a tear to the eye. SteveL. HI, due to health problems I had to return my PPL some years ago, so the sim is all I

Question:

Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down? Relax man…this isn’t a race… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

While some may not see fly fishing a stream as a race, those who know better realize it is a race. We have only so many years to spend on earth experiencing life. Therefore the faster we fish a stream, the more fishing we get done in a fixed amount of time. The more stream we fish, the more fish we catch. I would suggest fishing at least at a fast walk – about 4 – 6 mph in order to fish the greatest number of stream miles in a day. Al Marlowe Life – it gives us something to do while we’re waiting to die.

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_______ For as long as it holds your interest. GINK

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Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down? Relax man…this isn’t a race… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel… While some may not see fly fishing a stream as a race, those who know better realize it is a race. We have only so many years to spend on earth experiencing life. Therefore the faster we fish a stream, the more fishing we get done in a fixed amount of time. The more stream we fish, the more fish we catch. I would suggest fishing at least at a fast walk – about 4 – 6 mph in order to fish the greatest number of stream miles in a day.

And you spend your entire "life" running from place to place.  No thanks, I do enough of that at work.  Fishing, for me, is one of the far too few times to relax and enjoy life.   "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."                       — Henry David Thoreau Or worse in my book, they fish all their lives and it is ONLY fish that they are after. Just my $0.02,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down? Relax man…this isn’t a race… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel… While some may not see fly fishing a stream as a race, those who know better realize it is a race. We have only so many years to spend on earth experiencing life. Therefore the faster we fish a stream, the more fishing we get done in a fixed amount of time. The more stream we fish, the more fish we catch. I would suggest fishing at least at a fast walk – about 4 – 6 mph in order to fish the greatest number of stream miles in a day. Al Marlowe

Al, you try and fish 4-6 miles an hour on the streams in my neck of the woods you’ll probably end up dead. No, not from other flyfishers (but I can see that happening), from breaking your neck when you fall. I feel good at a real slow pace…no hurry…try and hit every piece of possible holding water…and if I go 1/2 mile or 200 yards in 2-3 hours..so be it…. Anyway…my point is it really isn’t a race…it’s an experience…why rush it? –WAlt

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -While some may not see fly fishing a stream as a race, those who know better realize it is a race. We have only so many years to spend on earth experiencing life. Therefore the faster we fish a stream, the more fishing we get done in a fixed amount of time. The more stream we fish, the more fish we catch. I would suggest fishing at least at a fast walk – about 4 – 6 mph in order to fish the greatest number of stream miles in a day. Al Marlowe Al, you try and fish 4-6 miles an hour on the streams in my neck of the woods you’ll probably end up dead. No, not from other flyfishers (but I can see that happening), from breaking your neck when you fall. I feel good at a real slow pace…no hurry…try and hit every piece of possible holding water…and if I go 1/2 mile or 200 yards in 2-3 hours..so be it…. Anyway…my point is it really isn’t a race…it’s an experience…why rush it? –WAlt

        you go, walter.  can you imagine some sonofabitch trying to fish up snowbird creek in late april at 4-6 mph.  within twenty minutes, his dead body would be doing 4-6 mph downstream.         a. wayne harrison

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Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down? Wayne

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Some streams, there is no need to move around at all.  You can fish all day on the same pool.  Of course, it’s enjoyable to wander around and see the sights on a stream, too.  The correst answer is, whatever you feel like doing. Personally, on an unfamiliar stream i will wander a lot, just to learn my way around.  Once you know a stream well, you tend to go straight to where you believe the action will be, based on your experience.  Also, especially on smaller streams, one spot will yield only so many fish in one session, so it behooves you to move on. Wayne, fish at whatever speed you want.  Stop to smell the roses or cover the water like a possessed man.  Take a nap on the bank or refuse rest or nourishment until you catch the 20th fish, whatever suits your fancy.  This is a sport where style and individuality rule. Pete C

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I’m used to casting to sighted fish.  Basically that means I keep stalking upstream until I spot one. If that means walking 3 miles up and 3 miles back in the day, so be it. In most river systems there is water that I only give a cursory inspection simply because it isn’t "fishy". Of course, there are plenty of places that should be covered with both eyes and rod. I recommend the book ‘Stalking Trout – a serious fisherman’s guide’ by Les Hill and Graeme Marshall published by Halcyon Press for more information on where you should be looking. The book cost me around NZ$30.00. Hope this helps. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down? Wayne

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This post shows the difference between dry and nymph fishing. Dry fly fishermen usually move along because after a fish raises once or twice you’ve either spooked or caught the bugger and his dry fly feeding buddies in the pool.. Nymphing is slower because you can dredge fish out of a big hole all day. Giving the fish a few minutes rest is usually enough. I tend to move faster in unfamiliar waters like the last posting indicated. Some times I slow down because the place on the river is just too beautiful to leave. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m used to casting to sighted fish.  Basically that means I keep stalking upstream until I spot one. If that means walking 3 miles up and 3 miles back in the day, so be it. In most river systems there is water that I only give a cursory inspection simply because it isn’t "fishy". Of course, there are plenty of places that should be covered with both eyes and rod. I recommend the book ‘Stalking Trout – a serious fisherman’s guide’ by Les Hill and Graeme Marshall published by Halcyon Press for more information on where you should be looking. The book cost me around NZ$30.00. Hope this helps. Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down? Wayne

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Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down? Wayne

It varies so widely as to be impossible to answer.  Last week, I spent two hours fishing 100 yards of crick, and caught probably 30 fish. Earlier this year, I fished 6 miles of river over the course of a day. Last month, I fished two miles in a morning. I think the other person’s answer is about on;  fish fast enough, or slow enough, so that you enjoy it.  I have found that fishing slow and carefully is sometimes necessary for success, other times, hotrodding from spot to spot looking for scattered fish is the answer.   Questions you might ask are, do I know there are fish in front of me? Do I know if they are concentrated or scattered?  Can I see rising, feeding, or holding fish?  Have I caught fish in this spot or this type of spot before?  Have I seen an old codger repeatedly fish this spot? What is the old codger doing?   If I know there are fish around, I try to figure out what to do to catch them, rather than running to hell and gone.  If I think I know what works, and I’m not catching fish here, I move.  If I don’t have a clue, I sit down, smoke a cigar, and watch.   A lot of times, what I try to watch is some guy who is 20 years older than me, and see what it is that he does.  I try to fish spots that have the highest codger index (=sum(age of fishermen)/number of fishermen). This works for me.  It works well enough that from time to time, I look up, and see some guy on a bank, smoking a cigar, watching.   — Andrew Brunette

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Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down?

Relax man…this isn’t a race… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."                      — Henry David Thoreau Why doesn’t anyone ever post the third line of that wonderful prose…"it’s the chicks, man." That would clear up a lot of misconceptions about the sport. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Very, very funny … I needed the laugh this morning….. thanks .. it’s the chicks, man." …. you just have to love that line .. — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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Fish a river until dark and then take up night fishing until morning then start over again. If nobody misses you or is worried about your absence carry on. Dave Fitton Otago.  New Zealand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down? Relax man…this isn’t a race… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel… While some may not see fly fishing a stream as a race, those who know better realize it is a race. We have only so many years to spend on earth experiencing life. Therefore the faster we fish a stream, the more fishing we get done in a fixed amount of time. The more stream we fish, the more fish we catch. I would suggest fishing at least at a fast walk – about 4 – 6 mph in order to fish the greatest number of stream miles in a day. Al Marlowe Life – it gives us something to do while we’re waiting to die.

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I tend to fish however the mood strikes me.  Some days I head to a small creek where I’m not likely to run into anyone and just start heading upstream at a steady pace giving each holding lie 3 or 4 casts and moving on, other times I head to where flyfishing is more of a social endeavor (ie Other Anglers Around) and really scour a short section of water.  If your having a good time and maybe even catching a few I’d guess your going at just the right pace. Good Fishing, C. Segina

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[deleted] I’ve fished some streams for a long time – 20 years or so.

I know Al.  Your name has been synonomous with the Colorado outdoors for a good part of my life. I rely on your book "Hiking in the Flat Tops" (exact title..???) as much for content as for the image of hiking amongst true grandeur it connotates for those times that I can not go. It is here, then, that I thank you personally. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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[deleted] I’ve fished some streams for a long time – 20 years or so. I know Al.  Your name has been synonomous with the Colorado outdoors for a good part of my life. I rely on your book "Hiking in the Flat Tops" (exact title..???) as much for content as for the image of hiking amongst true grandeur it connotates for those times that I can not go. It is here, then, that I thank you personally. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

I hope I haven’t written anything in that book that caused you to get lost. Have to admit it’s a great area. We’re heading up there for a week at Trappers Lake. Al Marlowe

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______ For as long as it holds your interest. GINK

I’ve fished some streams for a long time – 20 years or so. Al Marlowe

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Being new at fly fishing I have been listening to experienced fisherman discuss fishing 3 to 4 miles of stream or river a day.  I find I fish at the rate of about 200 yards per hour.  Of course difficulty of terrain and water conditions impact greatly but can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving upstream or down? Wayne

Howdee Wayne, I think I would move faster if I was not catching any fish and slower if I was catching fish. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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snip, snip…can you guys give me a feel for about how fast you are moving

upstream or down?< Fly fishing is for the soul, and therefore, not a timed event. Dennis Loveland, CO

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[deleted] "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."                      — Henry David Thoreau

Why doesn’t anyone ever post the third line of that wonderful prose…"it’s the chicks, man." That would clear up a lot of misconceptions about the sport. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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Question:

In a couple of weeks, I will be taking a trip for a couple days of fishing on Dale Hollow then a couple of days at Table Rock.  I have never been on either one of them.  Anyone have any advice on how to fish and what to use.  Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks

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I am envious.  I have not been on table rock in 10 years.  Table rock is full of bass and a few rainbow’s.  There are a few main rivers that empty in to Table rock.  One is the white river.  This river has decent fishing, but it soon turns shallow.  The other river is the Roaring River.  Matter a fact I would recommend canning the trip to table rock and heading up to Roaring River State park.  Buy a day pass, at last check it was $3, and fish your heart out.  The state park stocks the river with trout from the hatchery at the end of the park every night.  The limit was 5 trout and they are mighty good eating.  Roaring river is about 5 miles from Eagle Rock landing on tablerock.  If you like to fly fish, you will not find a better place in which to practice the fine art. Let me know if you wand any further info on Roaring River. IF you still want to go to table rock you will find great coves with plenty of dead cover.  That is, plenty of trees and stumps.  The bass are thick as theives.  If you go down by the dam the water is about 150 feet deep.  This is good fishing.  The water gets pretty warm in the summer. So the fish tend to run deep in the daytime. I hope you have luck.  If you need any further recomendations please let me know.  This is where I spent my summers for years. Deon Smith

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: In a couple of weeks, I will be taking a trip for a couple days of fishing : on Dale Hollow then a couple of days at Table Rock.  I have never been on : either one of them.  Anyone have any advice on how to fish and what to : use.  Any ideas would be appreciated. I fished the B.A.S.S. Missouri Invitational on Table Rock a few weeks back and I love the lake. If you haven’t booked a place to stay yet I stayed at a place called the Lighthouse Lodge in Kimberling City. A guy named Dave owns it and I really liked him. He is a fair source for where the fish are too. And no I don’t get no kick back or anything else from him. Although I haven’t fished Dale Hollow I was up there this spring to look around and it LOOKED a bit like Table Rock. Judgement based on standing no shore and looking at the lake. So take it for what its worth. Back to Table Rock. Best pattern I saw was fishing CEDAR trees. I could catch nice fish by dragging a lure through the tree and coming in contact with the tree. Stopping right after it hits and I would get bit. This was in varying depths of water. Could be as little as 8 feet and as much as 40. One guys method was to crank a stick bait down into the tops of trees in DEEP water and let it sit there. Move it a bit and let it sit again. It was too slow a pattern for me. Another good lure/method was to through light line with no weight and a Zoom minnow imitation to the tops of trees and let it sink. Twitching once in a while. This was a killer combination IF you had the right color. Color was key here. Just keep trying colors till they start tearing your arms off. Next was gravel points. Look for pea gravel on points and I used jerk baits. This was my best pattern. Both lakes are extremely clear water so long casts are a must. And remember that conditions change and what was working last month may not this month. Oh and when we were there the fish were spawning. Many people caught limits by sight fishing beds. Good fishing, All About Computers      | (810) 456-3894 (work) 2887 Pontiac Ct.         | (810) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   | Single and not taking applications. 48326                    | Interviews maybe.

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Question:

I have a business meeting in Pullman, Washington June 28 – 21.  Are there any trout streams in the area (3 – 4 hour radius) which won’t be flooded out during that time with reasonable access to wading. Thanks for any advice. Brent Buckley

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: I have a business meeting in Pullman, Washington June 28 – 21.  Are : there : any trout streams in the area (3 – 4 hour radius) which won’t be flooded : out during that time with reasonable access to wading. Sure, take a look through the entire N. Idaho region.  St. Joe, Lochsa, Selway, St. Maries, Marble Creek, Clearwater (all forks), …etc. All will be very high water.  I would guess the St. Joe might be the best option by end of June. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    : I have a business meeting in Pullman, Washington June 28 – 21.  Are    : there    : any trout streams in the area (3 – 4 hour radius) which won’t be flooded    : out during that time with reasonable access to wading.    Sure, take a look through the entire N. Idaho region.  St. Joe, Lochsa,    Selway, St. Maries, Marble Creek, Clearwater (all forks), …etc. But don’t neglect the Washington side of the Clearwater and lakes such as Lenore, Lenice, Amber to the west.  There are some pleasant small lakes around Lewiston, too.   — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster pgp key available at: ftp://ftp.cs.uidaho.edu/pub/foster/pgp-key.asc

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Question:

The CA DFG lets you order a fishing license over the phone and you get a 5% discount.  The cost savings  will help cover the cost of the call to Sacramento.  This can save a trip to the local bait shop or fly shop. = Since I didn=92t go to the local fly shop, I saved the money on the other= things I would have bought while at the fly shop. Call 916-227-2246 and use your credit card.  My license was delivered to me in Silicon Valley in three days.

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This can save a trip to the local bait shop or fly shop. Since I didn

Question:

Sorry about the previous post – I am trying to get used to posting through Netscape and I am making a lot of mistakes. My question is this :         1. When I cast, my flyline and leader go out fine, but my tippet            often lands in jumbled mess. What might I be doing wrong? I                am using a 6wt rod, DT6F line, a 9ft 5X leader, and 5X tippet              (about 18 inches). I normally use size 14 or 16 nymphs and dry            flies. Thanks in advance for any help!

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        1. When I cast, my flyline and leader go out fine, but my tippet            often lands in jumbled mess. What might I be doing wrong? I                am using a 6wt rod, DT6F line, a 9ft 5X leader, and 5X tippet              (about 18 inches). I normally use size 14 or 16 nymphs and dry  

Check that leader is straight before you cast, i.e. pull it through your fingers (or a small piece of rubber) until straight. Leader design should be 40% (of length) stiff butt, 20% floppy tippet, remainder stepping down (say 0.016" to 0.008").  If in doubt, buy famous-brand knotted leaders, e.g. Orvis.  If you knot your own, you can customize fully. Excessive forward push on the casting stroke can cause fly to bounce back on loose loops of tippet (deliberately in some fishing situations.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Sorry about the previous post – I am trying to get used to posting through Netscape and I am making a lot of mistakes. My question is this :        1. When I cast, my flyline and leader go out fine, but my tippet           often lands in jumbled mess. What might I be doing wrong? I               am using a 6wt rod, DT6F line, a 9ft 5X leader, and 5X tippet             (about 18 inches). I normally use size 14 or 16 nymphs and dry           flies. Thanks in advance for any help!

Two thoughts Jeff:         1) Try using a heavier leader, some of the tapered variety are good.             This will provide stiffness, which aids the turn over of your             tippet. You can then add your tippet to the end of the leader.             It might be a good idea to use a 5′ leader at first, they are             easier to control, when you have mastered that then progress             to the 9′ leaded.         2) With seeing you cast its difficult to offer advice but a common             fault with  many casting techniques is that the angler casts at             the water rather than at eye level. If when you cast you aim at             the water then the fly line, leader and tippet are not given             sufficent time to turn over, resulting in your line landing in a             heap on the water. If you cast aiming at the horizon or eye level             this will give time for the turn over to be completed and your             tackle to land in a straight line. I hope they might prove to be of some help for you.         Tight lines                         Chris

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Question:

The Rio Penasco between Cloudcroft and Artesia is a fine little trout stream.  Not very well known.  The Messilla Valley Flyfishers (a club from Las Cruces) manages the water and has negotiated access from owners.  Some really nice browns call it home. It should be within a couple of hours of El Paso.  We routinely fish it from Lubbock (4 hours in a fast car).  Give it a try it may be just what you want.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Xref: news.indirect.com rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:12250 Path: news.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.mega web.co m!newstf01.news.aol.com!uunet!prodigy.com!usenet Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY Lines: 7 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: inugap3.news.prodigy.com X-Newsreader: Version 1.2 I’m interested to know if anyone has ever fished on the GILA RIVER or in the GILA Wilderness.  I’m not a novice fisherman, but I’m living in El Paso Texas now and the flyfishing possibilities are limited.  I’v heard of the GILA RIVER but have never fished.  If anyone has any info on where to go fishing in New Mex besides the San Juan River, your help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks for your help!

I’ve never fished the Gila, but their are many streams worthy of a trip north. Just a few of them are: The Jemez, The Guadalupe, and the San Antonio, all of them within an hour and a half of Albuquerque. Other streams further North are the Pecos, Rio Grande, and the Red River below the hatchery.

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I’m interested to know if anyone has ever fished on the GILA RIVER or in the GILA Wilderness.  I’m not a novice fisherman, but I’m living in El Paso Texas now and the flyfishing possibilities are limited.  I’v heard of the GILA RIVER but have never fished.  If anyone has any info on where to go fishing in New Mex besides the San Juan River, your help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks for your help!

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