Question:

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.  

I didn’t mean you, I meant daytripper. The HWMNBN stuff is probably hard to follow if you’re new around here (aka still sane). <g — Charlie…

Response:

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.   I didn’t mean you, I meant daytripper. The HWMNBN stuff is probably hard to follow if you’re new around here (aka still sane). <g

He’s even a little hard to follow if you’re grizzled and insane

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)…

Ah, the trotting of the canards… I used to be a fan until that night in Marseilles when I had a grand on a mallard to place at 12-1.  It was running neck and neck with the leader until the home stretch, where the goddam thing came up lame and couldn’t finish the race.  That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed. Kevin, still disillusioned.

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Ah, the trotting of the canards… I used to be a fan until that night in Marseilles when I had a grand on a mallard to place at 12-1.  It was running neck and neck with the leader until the home stretch, where the goddam thing came up lame and couldn’t finish the race.  That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed. Kevin, still disillusioned.

Still, it’s better than running with the canards at Pamplona……boy could get culled doing that.    :( Wolfgang

Response:

That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed.

And why most just lope their mule… <g — Charlie…

Response:

I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons. Welcome, Jim!  Everyone here (with the exception of a troll) has been exceedingly kind and helpful to me, despite the fact I am very new to fly fishing

Geez! All of this good karma made me post again, after having nuked myself pretty much out of existence here other than lurking – Sandy, if you can put up with what you have, then I see no reason for me keep lurking, especially since the salmon and steelheading is going so well here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook on a 6wt Saturday (#6 Beadhead CDC Prince), gave one of the flies to a guy just upstream, then helped that guy land what had to be a 32-35 lb jack… and they were fishing for steelhead. Jim, Welcome. -Gus http://gstrandesigns.tripod.com/flyfishing.htm

Response:

Geez! All of this good karma made me post again, after having nuked myself pretty much out of existence here other than lurking – Sandy, if you can put up with what you have, then I see no reason for me keep lurking, especially since the salmon and steelheading is going so well here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook on a 6wt Saturday (#6 Beadhead CDC Prince), gave one of the flies to a guy just upstream, then helped that guy land what had to be a 32-35 lb jack… and they were fishing for steelhead.

Cool!  Then we’ll expect TRs and maybe even photos posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing very soon.  :^)  Welcome back, Gus.  Don’t sweat the small stuff.  Fishing and fun and friends are what’s important, and there’s plenty of that here. Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

Response:

here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook

Whoa! That is a fat fish! Mu

Response:

Kissass. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cool!  Then we’ll expect TRs and maybe even photos posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing very soon.  :^)  Welcome back, Gus.  Don’t sweat the small stuff.  Fishing and fun and friends are what’s important, and there’s plenty of that here. Sandy —

Response:

I have only posted to this group once, so I guess it would be fair to say I am a newbie.  I guess I could also be considered a Lurker because I have continued to follow threads hear and there for the last couple months, as time permits, but I have not contributed. I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.  This is not meant as a slight, I enjoy and respect many crurmudgeons.  When someone takes heat on this group, they usually deserve it and the criticism teaches newbies, like me, simple lessons.  (Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.)  The lessons are also entertaining. My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best.  I really enjoy trip reports and many are truly works of art.  The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout. I have learned much from this group.  (For example: I need to give the Henry’s Fork another try and now I know why it appears that I catch more than twice the number of trout when I use a dropper.  I guess I can thank Bruce for both.) I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Response:

I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Actually, Jim, all you need is a Sage rod for sale and a couple of alter egos. But seriously, it’s nice to here from you! –Steve

Response:

"Jim …..Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.

I, for one, don’t think shamless marketing is all that bad……best kind there is, as a matter of fact.     …The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout….

Pretty metaphor.  You got nuthin to worry about. Wolfgang oh yeah, welcome aboard!

Response:

Good post. Many will agree.  ;-) Seriously, thanks for the post, Jim. You’ve refuted the "popular opinion" (actually, held by just the one guy, afaik) that ROFF is an uninviting place. (HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… /daytripper (You’re off to a good start! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have only posted to this group once, so I guess it would be fair to say I am a newbie.  I guess I could also be considered a Lurker because I have continued to follow threads hear and there for the last couple months, as time permits, but I have not contributed. I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.  This is not meant as a slight, I enjoy and respect many crurmudgeons.  When someone takes heat on this group, they usually deserve it and the criticism teaches newbies, like me, simple lessons.  (Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.)  The lessons are also entertaining. My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best.  I really enjoy trip reports and many are truly works of art.  The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout. I have learned much from this group.  (For example: I need to give the Henry’s Fork another try and now I know why it appears that I catch more than twice the number of trout when I use a dropper.  I guess I can thank Bruce for both.) I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Response:

"Jim" wrote My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best. ……

Even the most curmudgeonly and cantankerous here won’t ever fault you for having your priorities so properly ordered.  Hope you find the time to post more often–maybe even a TR of the up-coming trip with your brothers.  ;) JR

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g — Charlie…

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.  Thats why I lurk around here and live vicariously though others.  It also gives me a chance to learn, although I would rather be learning on a river.

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)…

Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g — Charlie…

Response:

I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

You can always theorize or trivialize (?).  Keeps me busy in the long lulls between fishing trips

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g

What was I thinking?!?

Response:

He should definately cul that canard. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g What was I thinking?!?

Response:

I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.

Welcome, Jim!  Everyone here (with the exception of a troll) has been exceedingly kind and helpful to me, despite the fact I am very new to fly fishing.  I don’t always have info to add to discussions, but I read every one and have learned a wealth of information here, and have made some very nice friends. I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.

Please do post when you get back.  All the trout in Arizona streams seem to be boiled from the extended summer heat and I’m living vicariously through trip reports on ROFF until conditions improve.  <g Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

Response:

Question:

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes. They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)?

This class covers entomology, learning to read the water, river and lake methodology, and casting clinic for corrections.  It’s just one of those extra classes not for any degree. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at?

I’m not dead, man. Now where’s that damn Nancy? I coulda sworn she was just here…. – sid

Response:

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this.

By the most remarkable coincidence, I was at a TU picnic with Frogspritz, aka Mark Faulkner, a coupla hours ago. As  you may have noticed, he has been too busy loyering lately to be on the net.  So perhaps I may be permitted to respond. All undergraduate students at PSU, except veterans and perhaps a few others, must take a couple of credits in physical education.  I think that’s true of most colleges and universities. Many many years ago, before most of you were born, (almost before *I* was born), George Harvey began teaching fly casting and tying as one of the many physical education courses.  That was mentioned in George Leonard Herter’s book on fly tying, published at least 30 years ago. To the best of my knowledge, neither a BA, a BS, an MA, an MS, nor a Ph.D. in fly fishing is offered.   I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health. vince norris

Response:

Many many years ago, before most of you were born, (almost before *I* was born), George Harvey began teaching fly casting and tying as one of the many physical education courses.  That was mentioned in George Leonard Herter’s book on fly tying, published at least 30 years ago. I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health.

Wow, he’s got to be almost 90, that’s cool.  Joe Humphreys told me it was George who passed the baton to him for teaching the fly fishing course.  If I remember right he just recently retired (Joe).  I wonder if anyone is, or will be, teaching next.  Wish my school had that.  Shouldn’t gripe though, I got a credit for spending a long weekend at a beautiful Adirondack lodge on Racquette Lack cross country skiing and hanging by the fireplace with a bunch of girls I hadn’t met yet. Those were the days….. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth?

It’s a _little_ more involved than that. You also have to remember that you’re supposed to be having fun instead of stressing. Seriously, though, we’re fishermen, and therefore opinionated bastards who will turn any question into a holy war. Try to remember that it’s nothing personal. I recommend a real live casting lesson. If you can find a guide who will include one in a day’s guiding, that might be even better. If not, ask at a local fly shop. I tried to teach myself from a video from Orvis, and I’m not entirely happy with that method. As far as gear…for starter gear, I would personally look at St. Croix, Cabelas, or the lower-end Sage rods.  If you can find a local shop that stocks them and doesn’t hard-sell the more expensive stuff, then go there. But remember: fly shops are all too often trying to sell rods, rather than selling you the _right_ rod for your needs. (I knew one exception, in Overland Park, KS. But supposedly there’s a really good one in Loveland, CO, if you’re anywhere near there.) "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health. Wow, he’s got to be almost 90, that’s cool.  Joe Humphreys told me it was George who passed the baton to him for teaching the fly fishing course.

That’s right. If I remember right he just recently retired (Joe).

 Joe retired ten or so years ago, IIRC. He was succeeded by Vance McCullough, who either retired or just left the faculty to run a bar-restaurant (mostly a student hangout) with his brother. I’ve heard the name of the present instructor, but I don’t recall it. vince norris

Response:

   see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?

Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

Response:

       see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

KEEEEWL….Can I play bass?  If you gots a bass player, can I play harpsicord? Got my Funksteiner all tuned, my Rit and safety pins, and ready to go….Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at? JELLO…is you out there? GOD SAVE THE QUEEN AND HER FACIST REGIME!!! we gonna make jake and elwood look like pikers!

Response:

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes.

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Nice post, Wayne. Willi

Nice of you to go the trouble to post that, Willi. Regards, Jeff

Response:

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)?

I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this. Mu

Response:

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this.

Oregon State has had it for at least the last 8 years.  Never took it oddly enough, saw them out casting to the "grass trout" on sunny days though.      - Ken

Response:

I believe you may have struck a nerve, Vern!  However, I must say you egged this one on. So much for the niceness that Wayne Harrison wrote about. Let the *Games* begin. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken? Oh, blow it out yer ass, you despicable cretin. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

        see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?  oh, god, it’s so nice!!  and now the entire web will know us as nice guys!  and all our sins of arrogance and impatience will be forgiven, all because ken is nice, now!  and maybe dozens of nice guys will learn about how nice it is to flyfish, and how nice the guys who flyfish really are!  and, with luck, they will come in their thousands to fish with us, bringing their children, and their golden labs, all driving relentlessly toward the fast running blue cold water, driving in their discos and ‘ru’s and ernie bauers, until we join together in one surging mass of deliriously happy nice people, all wealthy, healthy and wise, because we are, in the final analysis, so deeply *nice*!

Nice post, Wayne. Willi

Response:

Deleted some good advice I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments.

Finding someone to help you will definitely save you alot of trial and error, mostly error. I had been fly fishing on and off for a number of years before I found another fly fisherman to fish with (my family were spin fishermen). I learned the first couple of days fishing with this person than I had learned over several years on my own and through reading. Back to watch the Avs beat the Wings Willi

Response:

 see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.

Nah.  Some alien stole Ken’s keyboard and his body…….OH and chiggers with a fucking ALIEN!!!  Oh man, I DON’T wanna do this anymore!

Response:

       see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

LMAO! Man, *that’s* imagery! /daytripper (bringing a rain coat to NC for sure ;^)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale KEEEEWL….Can I play bass?  If you gots a bass player, can I play harpsicord? Got my Funksteiner all tuned, my Rit and safety pins, and ready to go….Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at? JELLO…is you out there? GOD SAVE THE QUEEN AND HER FACIST REGIME!!! we gonna make jake and elwood look like pikers!

Remember, the drummer gets to choke to death on someone else’s vomit! Squiggy

Response:

The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken?

Oh, blow it out yer ass, you despicable cretin. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth? Thanks in Advance Dan

Response:

Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth?

We generally recommend the _Curtis Creek Manifesto_ by Sheridan Anderson   Frank Amato Pubns; ISBN: 0936608064 and a trip to your local flyshop for gear help. Lately some folks have been recommending inexpensive mail order gear. Flyfishermen tend to be an opinionated and cantankerous lot so you’ll probably not find a consensus on this topic, or any other for that matter, in this forum. We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it. I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it.

The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

I would try checking out your local video store or public library for an "intro to flyfishing" video. There’s alot more than just "back and forth", although you’d never guess it by reading ROFF…

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We generally recommend the _Curtis Creek Manifesto_ by Sheridan Anderson   Frank Amato Pubns; ISBN: 0936608064 and a trip to your local flyshop for gear help. Lately some folks have been recommending inexpensive mail order gear. Flyfishermen tend to be an opinionated and cantankerous lot so you’ll probably not find a consensus on this topic, or any other for that matter, in this forum. We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it. I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

        see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?  oh, god, it’s so nice!!  and now the entire web will know us as nice guys!  and all our sins of arrogance and impatience will be forgiven, all because ken is nice, now!  and maybe dozens of nice guys will learn about how nice it is to flyfish, and how nice the guys who flyfish really are!  and, with luck, they will come in their thousands to fish with us, bringing their children, and their golden labs, all driving relentlessly toward the fast running blue cold water, driving in their discos and ‘ru’s and ernie bauers, until we join together in one surging mass of deliriously happy nice people, all wealthy, healthy and wise, because we are, in the final analysis, so deeply *nice*!         wayno

Response:

Question:

Hi All, I realize the following does not relate to fly fishing.  However, it does relate to our ability to communicate with each other as we do on ROFF. If anyone can show me how to send it to other news groups without subscribing to each one (there are thousands of groups), I would appreciate it.  Please forward this to all you know. PLEASE EMAIL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND TELL HIM YOU DON’T WANT THIS TO HAPPEN. Pete Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay on-line and continue using e-mail: The last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of the Internet. Under proposed legislation the US. Postal Service will be attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees".  Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt. to charge a 5 cent surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP.  Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is nothing like a letter".  Since the average citizen received about 10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs.  Note that this would be money paid directly to the U.S. Postal Service for a service they do not even provide.  The whole point of the Internet is democracy and noninterference. If the federal government is permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a surcharge to email, who knows where it will end.  You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic inefficiency. If the U.S. Postal Service is allowed to tinker with email, it will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States.  One congressman, Tony Schnell has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the government’s proposed email charges.  Note that most of the major newspapers have ignored the story, the only exception being the Washingtonian which called the idea of email surcharge "a useful concept whose time has come" (March 6, 1999 Editorial). Don’t sit by and watch your freedom erode away!  Send this email to all Americans on your list and tell your friends and relatives to write to their congressman and say "No!" to Bill 602P. Kate Turner, Assistant to Richard Stepp Berger, Stepp and Gorman Attorneys at Law 216 Concorde Street Vienna, VA URGENT!!!! Pass this along to all your email buddies!

Response:

Thanks to Ken for the heads up relating to spamming.  I did not realize that would be spamming.   I thought advertising a business would be spamming. If you do want to email your congressman regarding this bill which will charge us 5 cents per emailing you can find his address by going to the below web site. http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-email.html Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pete, this is one of those urban myths we’ve all heard about. This one has fooled a lot of folks but it’s untrue. Even if it were true you would NOT want to send this to thousands of newsgroups. That’s called spamming and would almost certainly result in mindspring yanking your account. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Pete, this is one of those urban myths we’ve all heard about. This one has fooled a lot of folks but it’s untrue. Even if it were true you would NOT want to send this to thousands of newsgroups. That’s called spamming and would almost certainly result in mindspring yanking your account. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Hi All, I realize the following does not relate to fly fishing.  However, it does relate to our ability to communicate with each other as we do on ROFF. If anyone can show me how to send it to other news groups without subscribing to each one (there are thousands of groups), I would appreciate it.  Please forward this to all you know. PLEASE EMAIL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND TELL HIM YOU DON’T WANT THIS TO HAPPEN. Pete

We just managed to get the de facto monopoly, coupled with extortionate online charges etc  here to open up. I would like to see what would happen to anybody who now tried to charge us for e-mails. American congressmen included. TL MC

Response:

602P

Um….Pete, don’t believe everything you see on your computer. First of all, there is no such bill "602P". The closest listed bill – H.R.602- is titled: "Civil Service Long-Term Care Insurance Benefit Act (Introduced in the House)". Not even close. Second, there are only two bills in the entire House or Senate that even mention the word "email": H.R.1910 "To prohibit abuses in the use of unsolicited bulk electronic mail, and for other purposes" (aka the "E-Mail User Protection Act"); and S.809 "Online Privacy Protection Act of 1999" (another Good Thing). Neither of them discuss or describe user fees. Third, even the Postmaster General has refuted the existence of such a plan. You’ve been sucked into one of the better "e-ruses" that have gone around lately. It’s best not to proliferate these throughout Usenet – no matter how much sense they seem to make… /daytripper (source: THOMAS)

Response:

[snipped myself. OUCH!] Did a lookup on "electronic" + "email" and got two more hits: H.R.3113 "Unsolicited Electronic Mail Act of 1999" (‘… to protect individuals, families, and Internet service providers from unsolicited and unwanted electronic mail.’) H.R.1685 "Internet Growth and Development Act" (‘…to provide for the recognition of electronic signatures for the conduct of interstate and foreign commerce, to restrict the transmission of certain electronic mail advertisements, to authorize the Federal Trade Commission to prescribe rules to protect the privacy of users of commercial Internet websites, to promote the rapid deployment of broadband Internet services, and for other purposes.’) Both "Good Things" (imo); and neither mention fees for the likes of us… /daytripper (source: THOMAS)

Response:

602P Um….Pete, don’t believe everything you see on your computer. snip< Third, even the Postmaster General has refuted the existence of such a plan. You’ve been sucked into one of the better "e-ruses" that have gone around lately. It’s best not to proliferate these throughout Usenet – no matter how much sense they seem to make…

I happened to be on the US Postal Service site for another reason and saw that this hoax is apparently so widespread that even the USPS has a refutation on their site. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped myself. OUCH!] Did a lookup on "electronic" + "email" and got two more hits: H.R.3113 "Unsolicited Electronic Mail Act of 1999" (‘… to protect individuals, families, and Internet service providers from unsolicited and unwanted electronic mail.’) H.R.1685 "Internet Growth and Development Act" (‘…to provide for the recognition of electronic signatures for the conduct of interstate and foreign commerce, to restrict the transmission of certain electronic mail advertisements, to authorize the Federal Trade Commission to prescribe rules to protect the privacy of users of commercial Internet websites, to promote the rapid deployment of broadband Internet services, and for other purposes.’) Both "Good Things" (imo); and neither mention fees for the likes of us… /daytripper (source: THOMAS)

They had the same hoax going around in the Great White North only it was Canada Post and the naughty Chretien Liberals who were the villians.  Had a phony bill too, if I recall. Peter

Response:

SNIP SNIP " You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic inefficiency."

SNIP SNIP Obviously Im not in favor of a stamp/tax on Email But . . . Your statement above strikes me as bullshit. How is 35 cents "exorbitant?" Compared to what? Some country does it better for less? You know of some private or public enterprize that delivers the same or more value added for 35 cents? On this or any other galaxy? Inefficiency? Ever seen an automated mail sorting facility? Dave

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SNIP SNIP " You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic inefficiency." SNIP SNIP Obviously Im not in favor of a stamp/tax on Email But . . . Your statement above strikes me as bullshit. How is 35 cents "exorbitant?" Compared to what? Some country does it better for less? You know of some private or public enterprize that delivers the same or more value added for 35 cents? On this or any other galaxy? Inefficiency? Ever seen an automated mail sorting facility? Dave

I’ll also point out that the US Postal Service is one government agency that turns a profit. They really should work on their customer service, though. Going into a big-city post office is still as close as you’ll get to a Stalinist experience in the US. My post office in California routinely loses packages. However, the little post office in Stanley is a well-run, friendly place. The postmaster (postmistress?) knows all the local people by name. I had a problem with ordering stuff to be delivered by UPS because the houses in Stanley don’t have street addresses, which UPS requires. The postmaster just told me to make up an address and she’d tell the UPS guy where I lived. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Question:

All Rounder with many extras. 10 ft.  1 or 2 people.  600 lb capacity.

Response:

 we can pic up a pail of lard for jeff to cook the eggs in,

actually, after careful study of the fly dressing thread, i’m ordering a barrel of albolene…understand it has a thousand uses… jeff

Response:

a thousand and one…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  we can pic up a pail of lard for jeff to cook the eggs in, actually, after careful study of the fly dressing thread, i’m ordering a barrel of albolene…understand it has a thousand uses… jeff

Response:

Mail by several of the members of that group to request that I ask you guys to stay at home. Their group has many fine ladies and gentlemen involved who like to discuss the finer points of technical points of fishing  , cigar smoking, and didigal camera without the necessity of deleting  a bunch of messages fro  a bunch of drunken rowdies planning another meeting in the woods.  I of course replied -something here inside cannot be denied- when smoke gets in your eyes.             We will have plenty of food for the  spring clave, lots of wild weeds to make Ken"s meetless lasanga,  tomatoes will be in season so Dave an juswt drop whole big ones   in his tacos, I sill have a half gallon of Wall Mart special red,  we can pic up a pail of lard for jeff to cook the eggs in, and I know Walt has a couple of jars of spaghetti sauce. God I’m getting as silly as the rest of you jackasses.  Indian Joe3 ied

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I thought I wouldn’t *ever* get my own thread. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC "If you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes." Tom Browns Bastard is causing ROFF to rave, a thread has been engendered, the results of this are grave, but he can go casting on ! casting over seventy feet, with a quick flick of the wrist, will cause most Orvis owners here to shake an angry fist, but  he will go casting on ! His spouse is not quite certain, what the ruckus is about, all this talk of Bastards, is causing her some doubt, but he will go casting on ! the waiting and the hoping now has not been all in vain, Tom at last is getting his awaited fighting cane, and he will go casting on ! Now Tom is the lead dog, and the view has changed for him, he is getting the first Bastard, with a special coloured trim, and he will go casting on ! lets hope he catches plenty, and enjoys his fishing too, perhaps he will be kind enough to give us a review, as he goes casting on ! TL MC

Thanks for the smile Mike…. –Walt To fish is soliloquy.

Response:

George,  You sending this to yourself? David NB – when the rods really make an impact you can put the price up to include a ‘doubters’ premium"! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snipped) Trust me.  I couldn’t have picked a better Bastard to send the proto type to.  It was made with great care and it is a casting delight. Couldn’t have picked a better man. I’m gone. — Mr. G. ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

Some people take too much delight, being amused  at our hardworking plight, we have no time to go fishing, we just sit here wishing, and that is a terrible sight !

remainder of powerful poetic passages snipped, regrettably) kudos again to the Bard. Mark Faulkner

Response:

 Pete, I’d be careful about laying out your fishing plans here. Evidently, some roffians are becoming green with envy as they are tied to their respective desks and can’t join us lucky ones. You may be slammed….but what the hell…it sure is worth it –Wataugan "wish i could join you" Walt

Careful there guys..we might see an exodus from the ‘westies’ if word gets out.  :o) — Jeff Robbins CLELRITER CERTOQUE ICQ# 1286557

Response:

Tribs is short for tributary stream running into lake Ontario.  Right now they are all open from the CNR tracks to the lake.  I’ve not heard anything about the credit but supposedly the Ganaraska is seeing big fish.  Bowmanville and Wilmont are usually good for 12 to 18 pound rainbows this time of year.  I tried to get out for that thaw last week but stuff happens.  I should be on Bowmanville or Soper this week hopefully.  I’ll  leave a report if all goes well.

Response:

Tribs is short for tributary stream running into lake Ontario.  Right now they are all open from the CNR tracks to the lake.  I’ve not heard anything about the credit but supposedly the Ganaraska is seeing big fish.  Bowmanville and Wilmont are usually good for 12 to 18 pound rainbows this time of year.  I tried to get out for that thaw last week but stuff happens.  I should be on Bowmanville or Soper this week hopefully.  I’ll  leave a report if all goes well.

—

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! Just one warning from disappointed customer! I had an accident in last august and i broke my Orvis rod. Of course my rod has so called no questions asked quarantee for 25 years since i’m the original owner. So i left my rod in local dealer which send it to local importer – This all happened in during august last year and now it is the beginning of the fishing season and the rod is still in repair!! Nice work Orvis – it is the last of your rods that i’m going to buy! I would be even willing to pay for a decent repair time but this is ridiculous. May this Orvis 25year quarantee means that i have to now wait for 23 years to get my rod repaired… Disappointed customer -Timo ps. IMHO No questions asked quarantees are not good for fly fishing – i’m afraid that smaller rod makers will suffer eventually since the amount of broken rods will increase when the rods gets older…

Same with me Timo, I had similar problem with Orvis in the Netherlands. Their unconditional waranty works great in USA, but outside you will have to wait about a full year to get your repair done or your rod replaced. I changed to Sage and my local dealer replaces every broken (if ever) Sage immediately and gets his from Sage within a few weeks. Ger.

Response:

I disagree, Dave. Having broken my PM-10 9′0" 8 wgt rod two years ago, I did some inquiries and found significant turnaround time between going thru the dealer and mailing it back directly to Orvis. My shipping costs were bearable given the fact that it was the height of saltwater season, and it took only 3 weeks to get it back.  Time is money, and when it comes to my fishing time, it’s worth $1000 an hour…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any Orvis dealer will take care of it for you.  Or you could ship directly to Orvis in Manchester, VT, but you’d pay the shipping charge.  Let your closest Orvis dealer do it.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

<<I disagree, Dave. Having broken my PM-10 9′0" 8 wgt rod two years ago, I did some inquiries and found significant turnaround time between going thru the dealer and mailing it back directly to Orvis. My shipping costs were bearable given the fact that it was the height of saltwater season, and it took only 3 weeks to get it back. First time I broke a rod (tip in a door – dumb), it took 4 weeks — through the dealer.  Second time (butt – fell on it — dumb) it took two weeks.  We’re about even.   Dave L.

Response:

When I needed my PM-10 9-wt replaced (I bought the rod for $145, on "clearance"), I walked into the Orvis Manchester, VT store, and the clerk walked into the back room and came out with a new rod.  I’d have to say it took about 30-40 seconds. Bob Scott Orvis fan

Response:

well that’s still better than a Reddington which is worth nothing – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What do you expect them to do after you paid eight times what the rod cost to build? — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail I had great success with the Orvis guarantee.  I bought a trident in early 1997 that was a 1996 model discounted by about $100.00.  I broke the rod in the Summer of 1997 and returned it to my Orvis dealer here in Houston to get it repaired under the guarantee. The manager of the Houston store, Dave Haywood,  loaned me a replacement rod, a brand new Trident, and took my broken rod and sent it to Orvis in VT.  I didn’t even pay shipping charges.  Three weeks later Orvis sent me a brand new trident,  worth over $100.00 more than I had invested in the original rod.  I returned the loaner and have yet to spend a penny or to be inconvenienced much because of the broken rod.  When I think I could have been out a $400.00 rod I become ever more appreciative of the manner in which the whole affair was handled. I am not some crony of the store manager.  I met him when I bought the rod.  He had no reason to treat me any different than anyone else so I have to assume this is standard policy, at least here in the Houston area. It sounds like the troubles experienced with the guarantee are a function of the dealer.  I would bet a direct contact with the Orvis customer service people would get you the action you deserve. Tom

Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

Yes, I suppose the Reddington won’t be worth much either since Orvis bought them. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well that’s still better than a Reddington which is worth nothing – What do you expect them to do after you paid eight times what the rod cost to build? — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail I had great success with the Orvis guarantee.  I bought a trident in early 1997 that was a 1996 model discounted by about $100.00.  I broke the rod in the Summer of 1997 and returned it to my Orvis dealer here in Houston to get it repaired under the guarantee. The manager of the Houston store, Dave Haywood,  loaned me a replacement rod, a brand new Trident, and took my broken rod and sent it to Orvis in VT. I didn’t even pay shipping charges.  Three weeks later Orvis sent me a brand new trident,  worth over $100.00 more than I had invested in the original rod.  I returned the loaner and have yet to spend a penny or to be inconvenienced much because of the broken rod.  When I think I could have been out a $400.00 rod I become ever more appreciative of the manner in which the whole affair was handled. I am not some crony of the store manager.  I met him when I bought the rod.  He had no reason to treat me any different than anyone else so I have to assume this is standard policy, at least here in the Houston area. It sounds like the troubles experienced with the guarantee are a function of the dealer.  I would bet a direct contact with the Orvis customer service people would get you the action you deserve. Tom Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

Finally, someone who understands the truth behind these "Guarantees". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What do you expect them to do after you paid eight times what the rod cost to build? — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail I had great success with the Orvis guarantee.  I bought a trident in early 1997 that was a 1996 model discounted by about $100.00.  I broke the rod in the Summer of 1997 and returned it to my Orvis dealer here in Houston to get it repaired under the guarantee. The manager of the Houston store, Dave Haywood,  loaned me a replacement rod, a brand new Trident, and took my broken rod and sent it to Orvis in VT.  I didn’t even pay shipping charges.  Three weeks later Orvis sent me a brand new trident,  worth over $100.00 more than I had invested in the original rod.  I returned the loaner and have yet to spend a penny or to be inconvenienced much because of the broken rod.  When I think I could have been out a $400.00 rod I become ever more appreciative of the manner in which the whole affair was handled. I am not some crony of the store manager.  I met him when I bought the rod.  He had no reason to treat me any different than anyone else so I have to assume this is standard policy, at least here in the Houston area. It sounds like the troubles experienced with the guarantee are a function of the dealer.  I would bet a direct contact with the Orvis customer service people would get you the action you deserve. Tom

Response:

What do you expect them to do after you paid eight times what the rod cost to build? — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had great success with the Orvis guarantee.  I bought a trident in early 1997 that was a 1996 model discounted by about $100.00.  I broke the rod in the Summer of 1997 and returned it to my Orvis dealer here in Houston to get it repaired under the guarantee. The manager of the Houston store, Dave Haywood,  loaned me a replacement rod, a brand new Trident, and took my broken rod and sent it to Orvis in VT.  I didn’t even pay shipping charges.  Three weeks later Orvis sent me a brand new trident,  worth over $100.00 more than I had invested in the original rod.  I returned the loaner and have yet to spend a penny or to be inconvenienced much because of the broken rod.  When I think I could have been out a $400.00 rod I become ever more appreciative of the manner in which the whole affair was handled. I am not some crony of the store manager.  I met him when I bought the rod.  He had no reason to treat me any different than anyone else so I have to assume this is standard policy, at least here in the Houston area. It sounds like the troubles experienced with the guarantee are a function of the dealer.  I would bet a direct contact with the Orvis customer service people would get you the action you deserve. Tom

Response:

  I had an accident in last august and i broke my Orvis rod.   Of course my rod has so called no questions asked quarantee   for 25 years since i’m the original owner. So i left my rod in   local dealer which send it to local importer – This all happened   in during august last year and now it is the beginning of the   fishing season and the rod is still in repair!! Nice work Orvis –   it is the last of your rods that i’m going to buy! I would be even   willing to pay for a decent repair time but this is ridiculous.

I’ve had no problem with them at all – nor has anyone I’ve ever talked to.  They are prompt and courteous.  Even so, I’d never leave a rod and not do anything about it for months.  I always keep close tabs on my repairs, and have never had problems with _any_ company’s guarantee.  Things occasionally get lost or misplaced. What you didn’t tell us is what you have actually done to rectify the situation.  A simple call to Orvis would handle this without problem – something you should have done about 6 months ago.  It would be a hell of a lot more productive than taking time to rant on this newsgroup. Also, if you feel so strongly that these guarantees are bad for flyfishing, then 1) why did you not buy a rod from someone who doesn’t offer one and 2) why did you send your rod in for warrantee work?  If you actually feel this way, both of those actions are more than a little hypocritical. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

Dave, thanks for the info. I was hoping I could do this. I still have the card that was attached to the registration card (which was already sent in) and it talks about shipping to their Vermont site. My problem was just trying to figure out how to get a box that it would fit in. Thanks again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob Bently writes: <<With regards to the Orvis guarantee, can I take a rod to any Orvis dealer and have him ship it back for repair/replacement, or do I have to take it to the dealer I bought it from? Any Orvis dealer will take care of it for you.  Or you could ship directly to Orvis in Manchester, VT, but you’d pay the shipping charge.  Let your closest Orvis dealer do it. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Bob Bently writes:

<<With regards to the Orvis guarantee, can I take a rod to any Orvis dealer and have him ship it back for repair/replacement, or do I have to take it to the dealer I bought it from? Any Orvis dealer will take care of it for you.  Or you could ship directly to Orvis in Manchester, VT, but you’d pay the shipping charge.  Let your closest Orvis dealer do it.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

I had great success with the Orvis guarantee.  I bought a trident in early 1997 that was a 1996 model discounted by about $100.00.  I broke the rod in the Summer of 1997 and returned it to my Orvis dealer here in Houston to get it repaired under the guarantee. The manager of the Houston store, Dave Haywood,  loaned me a replacement rod, a brand new Trident, and took my broken rod and sent it to Orvis in VT.  I didn’t even pay shipping charges.  Three weeks later Orvis sent me a brand new trident,  worth over $100.00 more than I had invested in the original rod.  I returned the loaner and have yet to spend a penny or to be inconvenienced much because of the broken rod.  When I think I could have been out a $400.00 rod I become ever more appreciative of the manner in which the whole affair was handled. I am not some crony of the store manager.  I met him when I bought the rod.  He had no reason to treat me any different than anyone else so I have to assume this is standard policy, at least here in the Houston area. It sounds like the troubles experienced with the guarantee are a function of the dealer.  I would bet a direct contact with the Orvis customer service people would get you the action you deserve. Tom

Response:

With regards to the Orvis guarantee, can I take a rod to any Orvis dealer and have him ship it back for repair/replacement, or do I have to take it to the dealer I bought it from? I ask, because I broke my new Silver Label 8wt of the weekend. There is a dealer nearby, but I bought it from another dealer which is 3.5 hours away? Thanks for any info. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had great success with the Orvis guarantee.  I bought a trident in early 1997 that was a 1996 model discounted by about $100.00.  I broke the rod in the Summer of 1997 and returned it to my Orvis dealer here in Houston to get it repaired under the guarantee. The manager of the Houston store, Dave Haywood,  loaned me a replacement rod, a brand new Trident, and took my broken rod and sent it to Orvis in VT.  I didn’t even pay shipping charges.  Three weeks later Orvis sent me a brand new trident,  worth over $100.00 more than I had invested in the original rod.  I returned the loaner and have yet to spend a penny or to be inconvenienced much because of the broken rod.  When I think I could have been out a $400.00 rod I become ever more appreciative of the manner in which the whole affair was handled. I am not some crony of the store manager.  I met him when I bought the rod.  He had no reason to treat me any different than anyone else so I have to assume this is standard policy, at least here in the Houston area. It sounds like the troubles experienced with the guarantee are a function of the dealer.  I would bet a direct contact with the Orvis customer service people would get you the action you deserve. Tom

Response:

Timo Harjunen writes:

<<I had an accident in last august and i broke my Orvis rod. Of course my rod has so called no questions asked quarantee for 25 years since i’m the original owner. So i left my rod in local dealer which send it to local importer – This all happened in during august last year and now it is the beginning of the fishing season and the rod is still in repair!! Nice work Orvis – it is the last of your rods that i’m going to buy! I would be even willing to pay for a decent repair time but this is ridiculous. It may be your local dealer that is the trouble, Timo.  I accidently broke two Orvis rods (at different times over the years) and they were "in the shop" four weeks (the longest period).  You should write to Orvis in Manchester, Vermont, USA, and ask them about it.   Do not expect your dealer to work for you on this.   I suspect you are in Finland — good Finnish names — so the mail may also be the culprit in all of this. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Hello! Just one warning from disappointed customer! I had an accident in last august and i broke my Orvis rod. Of course my rod has so called no questions asked quarantee for 25 years since i’m the original owner. So i left my rod in local dealer which send it to local importer – This all happened in during august last year and now it is the beginning of the fishing season and the rod is still in repair!! Nice work Orvis – it is the last of your rods that i’m going to buy! I would be even willing to pay for a decent repair time but this is ridiculous. May this Orvis 25year quarantee means that i have to now wait for 23 years to get my rod repaired… Disappointed customer -Timo ps. IMHO No questions asked quarantees are not good for fly fishing – i’m afraid that smaller rod makers will suffer eventually since the amount of broken rods will increase when the rods gets older…

Response:

Question:

Hi there!  With flyfishing season coming up, I’m looking for a #4 weight rod no more than 9 feet long.  A good quality rod such as Fenwick,Sage, Scientific angler would do.  Willing to pay up to $200 cdn Let me know if you have one to sell thanks! Mike

Response:

  Hi, I just bought a nice little 4wt loomis GL2, 7.5ft. Beautifull rod, well finished with a nice med action. The best part was it only set me back $140 cdn. Great rod at a great price!

Response:

Question:

MY WIFE AND I ARE PLANNING TO DO SOME BACK PACKING IN THE SIERRAS-FROM THE BAY AREA.  WE WANT TO DO SOME ICE OUT FLY FISHING AND ARE LOOKING FOR SOME RECOMENDATIONS FOR REMOTE AND PRODUCTIVE WATERS.  ANY OFFERINGS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.  ALSO, RECOMMENDED PATTERNS ARE ALWAYS WELCOME.  SEE YOU ON THE RIVER!   MARTIN

Response:

Check out Ralph Cutters book–it is outstanding.  Let me know if you hear anything else.  Looking forward to spring thaw this year as well!!! Aaron

Response:

Question:

Hello, here are some posts I have sent to others. Hope you find the useful!  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge….. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Some friends and I, serious fly fisherman all, are thinking about going to the Florida Keys to do some bonefishing (and maybe tarpon, permit, etc.)  this winter.  Never having done this before, I have scads of questions: * Is end of December/beginning of January a good time?

Bones are there year round. They will not come up onto the flats if the water temp is too cold. Also wind is more likely, and impacts the number of "fishable" (sight fishing) days. However, the largest bonefish are usually caught in winter. I have hooked (not landed) very big bonefish during XMAS trips last year. Tarpon migrate, and are not in the Keys in large quantities until May/June. There are year round Tarpon spots in the Keys ( and Miami) but it is usually deep water. (Bridges/channels, etc) I consider June/July the best time all around for fishing in the Keys. I still fish year all seasons, because even "off season" the fishing is better than most places I know. But for fly fisherman, winter may be less desirable. Redfish are available year round, as are sharks and barracudas. Many fly types are sight fishing for big ‘Cudas during winter when it the flats are too cold for bonefish. * Where are the good spots in the keys?  Should we try Grand Bahama or  Belize instead?

My conclusion is that if you want numbers and lot’s of action, hit the bahamas, Christmas Island (near Hawaii), or costa rica. However, If you want big fish on a regular basis, Miami down to Marathon for bonefish is hard to beat. For Tarpon, Boca Grande pass in June is fantastic. Not the same as sight fishing the flats edges for tarpon in the Keys, but killer in a different fashion. Tarpon are all around florida mid year, so there are many good places for them. The keys are ideal due to: Big Bonefish, good tarpon, great Permit, OK redfish, great trout, great dolphin close in (the fish). The water is great for sight fishing in the Keys. Other parts of Fla are less "clear". The Bahamas are tough to beat in water clarity. * Know any good guides/outfitters?

I have not used a guide for 3 years, but recommend using one until you become proficient in finding fish yourself. Even then, guides will put you onto more fish. * Will I need my own equipment or can I rent?

I have not seen much rental equipment. If you have a guide, he will provide top notch equipment. I hope you have a good time!  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge…..  ..!gatech!kd4nc!km4ba!alan |       then what is the Anti-Dote??? Return-Path: jab Path: hpuerca!jab Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Distribution: na I will be on Islamorada from February 10-17 of this year.  I plan to do some inshore fishing, and am wondering if this is a particularly "hot" time for specific fish. Can anyone give me some help? I’ll be

Entirely dependant on water temperature. (Wind may also be an issue) Some of the largest bonefish are caught in "winter" (dec-feb). You may also go all day without seeing a fish on a flat. A guide is a big win here. They may know when/where fish may make an appearence. We have found that "normal" behavior does not apply. (normal for bonefish is: fish move on flat with low incoming tide.) Problem is that with colder water temp, at may be midday before the water warms up enough. Thus traditional early morning/late evening "best times" may not apply. Barracuda are found (and fished for) on the flats in the winter. Any other time, these guys are almost impossible to catch. (Except when a big bonefish is about to nail your shrimp/lure) Also sharks on the flats can be fun. Tarpon are pretty much somewhere else, except for a few "bridge" types that hang around year round. Redfish and trout in the backcountry (Fla Bay, as opposed to the Atlantic) should also be a good option. (Not as exciting as bonefish, but still pretty good) I believe offshore is pretty good this time of year. (Sailfish, grouper, Kings, snapper, etc) out for a full day, and would like to spend about half the day fishing purely for sport (i.e. tarpon, bonefish, maybe permit) and half the day fishing for something I can cook up afterwards. Is this possible?

Bonefish or permit then hit backcountry for redfish or trout. I have limited out on big trout within 30 min skiff ride from Islamorada. (By the way, you will be "in" Islamorada, the city. You will be "on" upper or lower matacumbe. Just a "nit" :- ) Any suggestions would be appreciated. I’d like to call up and reserve a guide ahead of time.

We had good luck with Jamie Brodie, who booked out of Holiday Isle. I could get other names from Fla Sportsman if needed. Secondly, since I can’t afford a guide every day I’m there, but would like to do some fishing most of the days I’m there, I’m wondering if anyone can give me advice about wading/shore fishing. I’ll cast for

This is how we got started. Harry Harris park up in key largo (20 min N of Islamorada) is a good flat to wade for bonefish. Also flats off the bridges at shell and indian key ( Just S of Islamorada. ) are good. If you see brown bottom that you can get too from your hotel, etc. I would give it a try. Wear tennis shoes, or booties. (I use "aquasox" as well) Be aware of stingrays. (Some say to shuffle. I do if I cannot see the bottom very clearly. I have found if the bottom is hard enough to wade, the stingrays do not bury themselves. They are also very spooky, and will avoid you.) Also bridge fishing all along that area is good. You can also rent a boat. (not cheap, but cheaper than a guide.) Plan on using it mainly to get too flats. Do not try to take it on the flats, as you will get stuck unless it is very high tide. You will not have a pole anyway. Even with our flat’s boats, we wade alot. (during low tide) anything, I just don’t know what’s there to cast to, or what to cast to whatever is there (to state a simple point in a fairly unruly way).

On the flats you will see:         stingrays- do not try to catch them. Look for bonefish/jack         following them. try to cast on the back of any stingray you see.         Many times you will not see the fish following them. Best sign         that bonefish are on the flats. Stingrays are your friend.         Bonefish- swim most in straight lines. best case is to find them         tailing in low water. (why wading is good). You may see one or a         dozen. Very spooky. Cast in front of them, let them swim up on         your lure/bait.         Permit- The most spooky. look for "sickle" fin sticking out of         water.         Baracuda- usually loitering around. Moving very slowly, then         disappears faster than your eye can follow. If you see a fish,         and it does not move 5-10 feet in a few seconds, then it is probably         a barracuda. cast past it 10 feet in front of it. reel as fast         as you can. They strike instinctively.         Jack- Usually you do not see them, but catch them by accident.         can get pretty big, fights almost as good as a bonefish. (Just         missing the 200 yd runs.)         Sharks- 2-5′ nurse, lemon, blacktip, and bonnet sharks. Lots of         fun to catch. Good sign of bonefish on the flats. They will         home in on a shrimp in the water. Plan on a short fight with a         quick release unless you use 2-3" of wire. (The wire does not         appear to bother bonefish. My brother has started rigging this         way all the time, just to sight cast for sharks if the bonefish         are not around)         Snapper- (mangrove and yellowtail) I call the yellowtail         "piranah" snappers, as they will make the water boil if you         throw a shrimp to them. Expert bait stealers, and will not         touch artificials. Usually too small to eat, but fun.         Basket ball sized puffs of mud- Bonefish!!! Usually more than         one. Look for the freshest, and then move 20-40′ ahead.         A line of muddy water- Stingray "mudding". Cast on it’s back.         A big cloud of muddy water- usually a school of bonefish and         jack. Often a stingray is down at the bottom. Cast into the         middle of it. Plan on 20-40′ casts. I use 8# test, 1 or 1/0 O’shaughsany cadmium or nickle hooks. Live shrimp or half dollar sized crabs. (The best) I carry extra shrimp in my pocket while wading. Also can use "skimmer" lead head jigs. Also consider fishing mangrove creeks and banks for snapper, snook (mostly at night), grunt, etc. You can catch "keepers". Grunt are not considered as desirable as snapper, but they are actually pretty good to eat. You will know if you catch a snook. Limited season. I have fun fishing hotel docks with my little boys even. In other words, any advice, as detailed as possible, about shore fishing on Islamorada would be greatly appreciated. I have one 6 1/2′ medium spinning outfit, and one 8′ medium-heavy spinning outfit (reel has 300 yard line capacity for 20′ test).

I would use the 6′6" for flats, and the bigger rod for bridge fishing. Again, 8# quality line is fine for the flats. Fill your reel. (optimum casting) Oil/grease your drag. It has got to be absolutley smooth. Set it for what you think it should be, then back it down to 1/3 of that. (We broke off several bonefish till we learned this.) They will take 100-200 yds of line extremely … read more »

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Hello,       I will be going Florida on April 1st, I would like to know about fishing in and around Ft. Lauderdale and the Keys. My primary interest is light tackle and fly fishing. Any tips on places to fish from shore for bonefish, permit, barracuda, tarpon, and/or any other large gamefish.           Suggestions will be greatly appreciated. This will be my first time down there, so I guess, I am a greenhorn. Tight lines……Fish On! Christopher Toner — –   2nd Shift Operations:RUCS               (908) 932-2293 –   OTS-Hill Center, Busch Campus –   Piscataway, NJ    

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