Question:

Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman No joke. See    http://www.neuticles.com/nnpages/navindex.html

rw Geez! Your web browser must lead an interesting life.<G Kiyu

Response:

If perchance you purchase for your dog a pair of neuticles, handle them with care, and  always clean at first your cuticles, in order to appreciate the texture, although this some appals, just grab your dog by the scruff of the neck and fondle then his balls, some dogs will not like this much, and may in fact be prone to bite, but others may in fact enjoy themselves, and are not inclined to fight. We are aware of course that some people think we may be crackers, but we are also doing a roaring trade selling plastic moulded knackers, these will fit quite well on nearly any animal,  from elephants to mice, and the animals are very proud of them, as they look and feel quite nice. our latest line for avid  fly-dressers whose bent towards  tradition lies, is a set of artificial testicles for rams, the hair from these, ties lovely flies. With many of these things of course, there may be an occasional hitch, before you fit the artificial testicles, make sure the animal is not a bitch, this tends to cause confusion, and the results of this may be absurd, causing weird behaviour, and "the sad dog syndrome" we have heard, as a service to our customers, we have an animal psychiatrist on call, who can inform with authority on the  suitability, of every single ball. Our custom balls fit everything, from antelopes to zebras, and even bulls and hogs, our product is so popular we have extended now our range with plastic dogs, these artificial animals are really excellent value , and will not bark or bite, and they are very cheap to keep, as they do not eat, and also do not shite, they are all machine washable, hygienic and of course devoid of germs, if you would like one of our artificial animals, just call us up for terms. Our range of lifelike products may be the answer to your wildest dreams, you could fish for massive artificial fish, in artificial lakes and streams, go on a safari and  see all the artificial things that crawl or creep, without any personal danger, in our special artificial plastic jeep, but the pride of our endeavours, guaranteed to save you strife, the crowning glory of our product range, is our special plastic wife. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My god… Did you read this: Quote: As Natural As Nature Intended    The texture and firmness of NEUTICLE NATURALS were crafted    based on the firmness and texture of actual animal testicles. End quote.

Response:

These may be similar to the images that keep troubling Timmy. Poor ‘guy’. <g

Yes well, for a guy who eats everything he catches such images would indeed be troubling…or so we hope.

Response:

I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

Response:

Number 1, go to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying. Number 2, put FOR SALE in your title or prepare to get flamed. I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

I’m looking for hair off a monkey’s balls. Polar bear hair just won’t do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

Response:

If you want nice white coarse hair, it can be had from the balls of aged men sleeping in the park.  Procurement is your problem.  :{) "Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

Response:

Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for hair off a monkey’s balls. Polar bear hair just won’t do. I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

Response:

Or the synthetic equivalence? Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin I’m looking for hair off a monkey’s balls. Polar bear hair just won’t do. I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs.

I humbly relinquish any previous claim to "straight line of the week". Joe F.

Response:

Or the synthetic equivalence? Herman Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin

You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs.

"Would you like those wrapped sir?" "No thanks, I’ll lick them here"<g. — Charlie…

Response:

You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs.

Oh shit!   Those are for DOGS? Joe F.

Response:

Yeah, and would you mind putting your leg down please ? TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs. Oh shit!   Those are for DOGS? Joe F.

Response:

Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or the synthetic equivalence? Herman Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman

No joke. See         http://www.neuticles.com/nnpages/navindex.html — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Herman, Haven’t you ever seen a dog lick his "Neuticles "? Ernie, Remove SPAM to e-mail

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman Or the synthetic equivalence? Herman Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam) — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

But you have to wonder about a company that uses a quote from "The Daily Show" (fake news show on Comedy Central) as the lead on their "What the press is saying" page. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No joke. See http://www.neuticles.com/nnpages/navindex.html

Response:

But you have to wonder about a company that uses a quote from "The Daily Show" (fake news show on Comedy Central) as the lead on their "What the press is saying" page.

I’m not endorsing the product! I think the whole concept is ridiculous. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

rw, I wasn’t implying anything about you.  I’m just amazed that the company thinks being lampooned on the Daily Show is ‘good press’.  Weirdly funny.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But you have to wonder about a company that uses a quote from "The Daily Show" (fake news show on Comedy Central) as the lead on their "What the press is saying" page. I’m not endorsing the product! I think the whole concept is ridiculous.

Response:

Yes.. They do it merely to show off, imho. Basterds. Herman Herman, Haven’t you ever seen a dog lick his "Neuticles "? Ernie, Remove SPAM to e-mail

        Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

My god… Did you read this: Quote: As Natural As Nature Intended    The texture and firmness of NEUTICLE NATURALS were crafted    based on the firmness and texture of actual animal testicles. End quote. Yeah right.. like anyone would check.. or notice the difference.. Herman, horrified – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman No joke. See         http://www.neuticles.com/nnpages/navindex.html — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Yeah right.. like anyone would check.. or notice the difference.. Herman, horrified

Wonder how they recruit people for their quality control department (and what the interview is like)<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Don’t. Don’t wonder, don’t imagine. I merely pondered and had more than enough trouble to loose the mental image. Herman Yeah right.. like anyone would check.. or notice the difference.. Herman, horrified Wonder how they recruit people for their quality control department (and what the interview is like)<g. — Charlie…

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Don’t. Don’t wonder, don’t imagine. I merely pondered and had more than enough trouble to loose the mental image.

These may be similar to the images that keep troubling Timmy. Poor ‘guy’. <g — Charlie…

Response:

Question:

If it inhaled it deep and you had to fight him a long time, make it dinner. 2 weeks ago, had a trout inhale the Mepps deep, and was bleeding.  Cleaned and Bar-B-Qued, he was tasty.  If is not bleeding and looks like it will survive, just cut the line as close to the hook as possible. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

FWIW, I use barbless hooks only, which makes hook removal simple. Also, you won’t lose fish if you keep you line tight during the battle. In the event that a fish has swallowed the hook deeply, I don’t even bother trying to remove it. I just snip the line as close as possible to the hook itself. The fish can survive with a hook in it. I once caught a small trout that swallowed my hook. I kept it figuring it would die if I released it. When I cleaned it, I found a treble hook stuck in it’s throat. Even with that hook in there, it was still eating. Also, I feel it’s important to not have a fish out of the water for longer than say 30 or 40 seconds. I also "handle" fish after I wet my hands with water so as no to remove the slime coat. Obviously, these are just my opinions. Good fishing to you! Bry — "My worst day at work is still better than my best day steelhead fishing"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

: Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang : fish inhaled the hook. : What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to : shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both : times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the : fish. : Any suggestions? I have been catching some small catfish and panfish lately and I have been using a technique that has helped with swallowed hooks.  I started using short shanked hooks and bending the barbs down.  I use forceps to carefully go in though the gills and a little twist easily gets the hook loose.  Then the hook can be removed though the mouth with the forceps. Forceps are cheaper at "Headshops" than at tackle stores.

Response:

Most hooks are made of low grade metal and actually rust quite quickly.  Depending on how far down the hook is, often very little damage or harm ensues. Several years ago, I caught a little brookie.  When I removed my hook from the fish’s mouth, I discovered that there was another hook in the fish’s throat.  It was obviously too low for the previous angler to safely remove it, so I guess he cut his line as close as possible to the hook.  The interesting thing was that most of the shaft of the hook had actually rusted away.  There was just a small length remaining above the curve of the hook.   It obviously did not interfere with the fish’s ability to eat or survive.  It put up a fiesty fight, typical of brook trout! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

If the hook was bronze, the acids in the fish will disolve the hook. You did the right thing V.B.

: Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang : fish inhaled the hook. : What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to : shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both : times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the : fish. : Any suggestions? : Thanks. : AC —

Response:

Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

+AD4- and ended up cutting the line and releasing the +AD4-fish. +AD4- I think you just answered the question yourself. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and pay the price. You only do dammage by trying to retreive a swallowed hook. If the hooks are swallowed but visible as a rule, you could try flattening the barb, but some would argue this to be detrimental. Others won’t. I have no opinion as I have never tried barbless fishing myself. Just a suggestion. Dan in the bush……

Response:

I used to catch wraases with hook and line that were sold live for saltwater aquariums. About 50% of the fish would swallow the hook so deep you couldn’t even see it. I just cut the line and put them in the live well. At the end of the day, usually all the hooks were laying in the bottom of the well. Capt. Jeff Kona, Hawaii http://home1.gte.net/jfrogers

+ADw-7t6ds0+ACQ-l86+ACQ-1+AEA-fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net+AD4-… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -+AD4- and ended up cutting the line and releasing the +AD4-fish. +AD4- I think you just answered the question yourself. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and pay the price. You only do dammage by trying to retreive a swallowed hook. If the hooks are swallowed but visible as a rule, you could try flattening the barb, but some would argue this to be detrimental. Others won’t. I have no opinion as I have never tried barbless fishing myself. Just a suggestion. Dan in the bush……

Response:

My suggestion is to gaff it, bring it onboard and have the deckhands fillet it. If it’s gut-hooked, and it fought, that would seem to really screw up the innards. I know when I catch an albie that swallowed the bait, blood gushes out of the mouth. Hard to believe that the fish would survive. Just keep reasonable limits, and respect the resource. It’s a sport, not a subsistance. RD Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

– Caltees – Home of Guy Harvey, Al Agnew, Habitat and Military Printed Tees http://www.caltees.com

Response:

One way that helps in releasing fish is to use a barbless hook.  As long as you keep the line tight the fish will hardly ever come off!   Tight Lines Lorne — If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there’d be a shortage of fishing poles. -Doug Larson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook.

This happens to me quite often during the fishing season.  There is no way to avoid this, if you fish, you have to accept the fact that occasionally, fish WILL swallow th hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions?

Yes, what you did is exactly the correct thing.  You should try to quickly remove the hook, if unsuccessful, then either cut the line or in the case of large lures, use a sidecutter pliers or a small bolt cutter and cut the hook.  I have caught many apparently healthy fish with a leader or a section of line hanging out of their mouth.  Just today, while out with my editor from http://www.lake-link.com I caught a small northern pike with a section of line going down into his gullet.  There was nothing wrong with the fish and he was released again. One thing’s for certain, the survival rate for fish that are kept and filleted is zero, so release, there is always a chance that they will make it.

Response:

Question:

I’m going to be in Bonita Springs, Florida and will have a 17ft Boston Whaler at my disposal for fly fishing from April 29 – May 3rd.   Could anyone give me some suggestions on some flies to tie for Snook and Redfish.  I’m a trout/steelhead fisherman from Washington State and this will be me first attempt at this type of fishing.   Thanks in advance Scott D. Craig                     The members of this genus (Salvelinus)                                    are by far the most active and handsome                                    of the trout, they live in the coldest, Lacey, WA.                            cleanest and most secluded waters. Check out the homepage                No higher praise can be given to a http://www.eskimo.com/~craigs         Salmonid than to say, it is a charr.                                          (Jordan and Evermann 1896) — Scott D. Craig                     The members of this genus (Salvelinus) Fisheries/Aquatic Biologist       are by far the most active and handsome U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service       of the trout, they live in the coldest,

Response:

For what it’s worth, most population experts are expecting the world population to hit a peak in the next century and begin to decline.

Are those the same experts who said the DOW wouldn’t go above 4000? — -Wayne Trzyna                           Fight spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition  http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~trzyna    See http://www.cauce.org/

Response:

Why single out recreation for fees?  What about education, highways, national defense?

     A common argument for the fees is, "Let those who use it pay for it." What makes it unique from the rest is that virtually everyone uses education, highways, and defense.  Good point, though. Take this fee-based taxation to the extreme, and you’ll see how miserable life can be.  Just imaging the nuisance if all roads were toll roads.

     Yep. Government is a necessary institution, and I prefer paying for it once per year, not every time I turn around.

     Yes, definitely.  I think that a yearly pass for the USFS/BLM/NPS is reasonably inexpensive, but I don’t know if that’s just good in one area.      The big question is, who should pay for the forests?  All citizens or just those who use them?  We all like tax cuts, but I’m not sure that the National Forests and the people who use them should have to pay for themselves.  Sometimes government funding is necessary.  This may be one of those times. — Got maps?  TopoWeb does.  http://members.xoom.com/Topo_Web

Response:

Why single out recreation for fees?  What about education,

Property taxes. Not a good system. The rich get better schools, which perpetuates inequality. highways,

There is a usage fee for highways — the gasoline tax. It should be much higher. national defense?  

Since we all benefit from national defense we all pay, through income taxes. I’m not too crazy about paying a million buck a pop for cruise missiles in Kosovo. And if recreationists are paying fees to use the forest, why are loggers and miners in the same forest subsidized?

They shouldn’t be subsidised. Laws governing mining on public lands, in particular, should be reformed. Right now it’s a giveaway. Logging is a little better, but still very bad. Grazing is very bad. All these fees should come up to match private-sector prices. Take this fee-based taxation to the extreme, and you’ll see how miserable life can be.  Just imaging the nuisance if all roads were toll roads.

I support a policy that has those that use the resource pay for its upkeep, with some proportion payed by society as a whole. Then the people who use it become stakeholders and they damn well want their money’s worth. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Up until the past decade, it would have been a naive notion.  Not only were the fees not kept by the area used, but I believe (someone will correct me if I’m wrong), they weren’t kept for the use of the system in general.  They were dumped into the revenue for the state or US, whichever applied.  There’s been a big move of recent years that’s had the effect of keeping more money in the individual places it’s collected, or at least within the parks and forests divisions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Until I started reading this thread, I was under the naive notion that use fees I’ve been paying help support the resource I’m using.  It pisses me off that this is not the case. Don’t get too upset about it.  At least if you are using a less popular resource.  If everything went back to where it came in, we’d only be left with the Disneylands (Yosemite, Yellostone, etc) — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                 at http://www.cauce.org/ It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content

—– I’m going to live forever or die trying. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

 Until I started reading this thread, I was under the naive notion that use fees I’ve been paying help support the resource I’m using.  It pisses me off that this is not the case.

Don’t get too upset about it.  At least if you are using a less popular resource.  If everything went back to where it came in, we’d only be left with the Disneylands (Yosemite, Yellostone, etc) — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                  at http://www.cauce.org/  It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content — Pete Hickey               |                         |       VEIWIT University of Ottawa      |                         |      mirrors for Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 562-5800×1008    |       dyslexics.

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snipped information should you want to do a search.  As for encountering a "standing army of park-police" on a trout stream, that is highly improbable.  The US Park Police are only found in a few areas, such as the parks in Washington, DC; the Bay area parks, around the St. Louis arch, and in a few other urban areas.   You are much more likely to encounter some impoverished interpretive ranger out on a trail. …snipped Actually Richard, the function of the Park Ranger is almost entirely law enforcement.  Most of the "interpretive" work in the parks is now done by volunteers.   Take a look at the job recruitment specifications.  They want applicants with military and/or law enforcement backgrounds… not naturalists.  Even the NPS Ranger school at Grand Canyon is primarily concerned with crowd, traffic and riot control… certainly not interpretation. I backpack in the National Parks extensivley, particularly Yosemite & Sequoia, and on my last several trips the only Rangers I met (both NPS and USFS) were only interested in inspecting my permit.  They carried sidearms and had no time to stand and chat about the wonders of nature.

Sorry Kurt, but I speak from experience _as_ a park ranger, and only a small minority of badged personnel actually have law enforcement commissions.  In every park in which I have worked, interpretation, resource management and other rangers far outnumber the law enforcement personnel.  I know quite well the function of the ranger jobs I have held and my varied responsibilities were not related to law enforcement.  As for job recruitments, you can look for yourself on the opm.gov site; most ranger positions do have certifications based on experience in natural history, history or resource management.  Yes, some jobs do require a law enforcement commission, but most do not.  The Albright Training Center at Grand Canyon is not a law enforcement academy, though some courses are taught there.  Most permanent protection rangers instead are schooled at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in the southeast.  Rangers still do most of the interpretive work, too, though volunteers are a big help in a time of declining budgets. Your personal experience may indeed have included backcountry rangers checking you for your permit, but that is not what most rangers do at all.  I am still pretty certain you have never encountered a US Park Police person in checking permits on the trail; they are not in most wild parks.  Still hope your fishing is going well.

Response:

…snipped information should you want to do a search.  As for encountering a "standing army of park-police" on a trout stream, that is highly improbable.  The US Park Police are only found in a few areas, such as the parks in Washington, DC; the Bay area parks, around the St. Louis arch, and in a few other urban areas.  You are much more likely to encounter some impoverished interpretive ranger out on a trail.

…snipped Actually Richard, the function of the Park Ranger is almost entirely law enforcement.  Most of the "interpretive" work in the parks is now done by volunteers.   Take a look at the job recruitment specifications.  They want applicants with military and/or law enforcement backgrounds… not naturalists.  Even the NPS Ranger school at Grand Canyon is primarily concerned with crowd, traffic and riot control… certainly not interpretation. I backpack in the National Parks extensivley, particularly Yosemite & Sequoia, and on my last several trips the only Rangers I met (both NPS and USFS) were only interested in inspecting my permit.  They carried sidearms and had no time to stand and chat about the wonders of nature. . . . Kurt

Response:

rw I support a policy that has those that use the resource pay for its upkeep, with some proportion payed by society as a whole. Then the people who use it become stakeholders and they damn well want their money’s worth.

I agree with you in principle, the problem of course is setting the balance between support from users and support from the general fund.  It certainly should never be the case that use fees go back into the general fund as apparently(according to other sources posting here) they do.  Until I started reading this thread, I was under the naive notion that use fees I’ve been paying help support the resource I’m using.  It pisses me off that this is not the case. I can see how big business would support use fees as a long term strategy for usurping more resources.  Use fees discourage lower income people from using public resources and at the same time sour them toward people who want to use general money, which might otherwise be used for social development, to preserve natural resources .  A clever ploy for eroding political support for resource preservation.  (Or am I just paranoid?)

Response:

Say what you want,flame to the empty void.You all make some valid points but in the end I dont mind the small fees that pile up every time I turn around.And they do add up (list of last years expenses ommitted,you’re welcome) I like the improvements that I have seen happen to our beloved nat parks.If it keeps out the losers and sends them somewhere else fine.If it means finding a reasonably acommodating restroom when its desired fine.If it keeps the roads in good enough shape, fine.I wish that the industrys that benifit from the parks were footing the bill but I also wish that I was 10 foot tall and bulletproof.none of these things will happen.So what its just money and like love and power its just a collective hallucination.Tell ya what Ill drop an extra five in the next collection box I come across just for you guys.                             Zoc

Public lands belong to the public and shouldn’t be held hostage for those who can afford them. My next objection is that right now I have so many god damned season passes on my windshield that I can’t see out of it to drive the truck. Nonetheless, despite all the tags, it seems like whatever area I’m entering requires a NEW tag that I don’t have. One national tag would seem reasonable. The current system sucks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Leave no trace or don’t leave home.

Response:

Say what you want,flame to the empty void.You all make some valid points but in the end I dont mind the small fees that pile up every time I turn around.And they do add up (list of last years expenses ommitted,you’re welcome) I like the improvements that I have seen happen to our beloved nat parks.If it keeps out the losers and sends them somewhere else fine.If it means finding a reasonably acommodating restroom when its desired fine.If it keeps the roads in good enough shape, fine.I wish that the industrys that benifit from the parks were footing the bill but I also wish that I was 10 foot tall and bulletproof.none of these things will happen.So what its just money and like love and power its just a collective hallucination.Tell ya what Ill drop an extra five in the next collection box I come across just for you guys.                              Zoc

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This is irrespective of the fact that this is a clandestine tax increase.  These fees go into the general fund.  They are not applied to the areas that collect them.  Nor are national park entrance fees, by the way.  And I’m glad of that.  Because the more money the park-managers get, the more they build bureaucratic empires, erect roads and visitors centers, pass pointless regulations, and deploy a standing army of park-police.  This is not what a visit to a trout-steam is supposed to be about.

Your information on park entrance fees is somewhat out of date.  Under the current demonstration program, 80% of the fees stay in the park that collects them, and the other 20% goes towards other parks.  The NPS web site has all the information should you want to do a search.  As for encountering a "standing army of park-police" on a trout stream, that is highly improbable.  The US Park Police are only found in a few areas, such as the parks in Washington, DC; the Bay area parks, around the St. Louis arch, and in a few other urban areas.  You are much more likely to encounter some impoverished interpretive ranger out on a trail. As for building a bureaucratic empire, remember that most developments in the parks are prompted or directed by Congressional legislation.  If you really want to make a difference, work through your representatives, and make your voice heard at the ample opportunities parks provide for comment during general management plan revisions and other basic planning processes. Good luck with your fishing.

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Note: Please forward this message to every outdoors person you know. This is one case where the quantity of letters is important. STOP THE COMMERCIALIZATION, PRIVATIZATION AND MOTORIZATION OF PUBLIC LANDS —  LETTERS REQUIRED BEFORE APRIL 13, 1999 The Fee-Demonstration Program is currently temporary on  some of our national forests. But supporters of the forest fees are working to make fees permanent next year, locking fees in place well before the test program’s scheduled ending in September 2001. At the same time, they are pretending that the American public has no problem with forest fees! The powerful Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee held Fee-Demo hearings on March 3, 1999 – but they did not invite testimony from anyone except those corporations and motorized user groups which support Forest Fees. On April 13th, we will have OUR CHANCE TO BE HEARD when the House Interior Appropriations subcommittee holds its Public Witness Day. Please send a quick letter or postcard by April 10th. State: – Your opposition to forest fees – Ask the subcommittee to increase Forest Service recreation budgets (so as to maintain our National Forests without visitor fees) – Ask that your letter be part of the record for Public Witness Day on April 13th.  Send your comments to:      Congressman Ralph Regula      House Interior Appropriations subcommittee      B-308 Rayburn Building      Washington, D.C. 20515 Public input is absolutely VITAL if the battle to save our wilderness is going to be won. Letters sent after April 10th are still helpful. The Sierra Club and over 75 other environmental groups oppose the imposition of recreation access and user fees on public lands. Environmental activists oppose user fees on public land, including wilderness lands, for reasons beyond opposition to payment of fees for use of public lands for which the public already pays taxes. The more serious concern is that the recreation fee demonstration program is not a benign effort to fund needed programs but is the leading edge of the recreation industry’s attempts to transform public land recreation into commercial products. The trend to deprive federal agencies of adequate recreation budgets and force them to charge fees instead is directly related to efforts to privatize, commercialize, and motorize recreation on the public lands.  Please help by making your concerns known to Congress. For those not yet familiar with the ongoing efforts to turn industrial strength wreckreation into the next extractive forest industry, additional information can be found at the Wild Wilderness web site. http://www.wildwilderness.org PLEASE SEND YOUR LETTER ASAP AND HAVE YOUR FRIENDS DO THE SAME.

Response:

Note: Please forward this message to every outdoors person you know. This is one case where the quantity of letters is important.

     Great.  So the quality of letters isn’t important?  We should just flood D.C. with letters to promote our own interests without any rational discussion?  I don’t think so.  Even if I agreed with your view, I don’t support campaigns like yours and Bluewater’s.      I’m actually not entirely sure where I stand on this issue. Fishermen and hunters have to pay for their activities on public lands. Shouldn’t we?  On the other hand, it seems like a crime to have to pay to set foot on "public" land.  But then again, you have to pay to get into National Parks (and State Parks, for that matter), whether on foot or in a car.  It’s a somewhat complex issue.  One thing is sure:  Encouraging snail-spam won’t get us anywhere. PLEASE SEND YOUR LETTER ASAP AND HAVE YOUR FRIENDS DO THE SAME.

     No, thanks.  And I don’t have any friends, thanks. — Got maps?  TopoWeb does.  http://members.xoom.com/Topo_Web

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I live in a town of less than 200,00 people.  Of these are more than 3,000 native born Chinese.  Mostly legal. An even larger population of undocumented, illegal Mexicans exist, consequently we have some great Chinese and Mexican food available. Instead of permitting other countries to make their own way we interfere and then let their brightest minds and most courageous individuals jump a boat, raft or even legally immigrate to this once spacious country. For ourselves we cannot think past tomorrow’s paycheck or stock report, all the while bemoaning the loss of jobs and the downsizing used to increase the bottom line. I have long considered that perhaps it is time to use our outdoors as a private club.  Buy a lifetime membership now and pay annual dues.  The membership could stay with the family, passing down through the generations. As sad as it is, there is, possibly,  no other way to preserve our outdoors. . . .Politicians can now garner enough votes  to get elected by promising a group of individuals more welfare or unemployment or legal status or whatever, the point is . . .politicians will gladly rape and loot and pillage our resources for another kick-back or term in office.  Who then will watch over what we know, under the present system, will one day be gone forever…our children will likely never see an old growth forest. The majority of the time, our influence on young lives is not enough to counter-balance the E. F. Hutton and Niki ads. How many representatives would prosper by telling those in the inner cities, " They would have more if we didn’t waste money on those old parks and forests that no one ever goes to anyway?" What effect would our voices then have in the overall scheme of things.  . . .sometimes I think about things like this . . .and then, like I am doing tomorrow, I go fishing before it’s all gone . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . john . . . .

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(comments about the pressures caused by immigration were here) I have long considered that perhaps it is time to use our outdoors as a private club.  Buy a lifetime membership now and pay annual dues.  The membership could stay with the family, passing down through the

generations. The European aristocracy tried that. It claimed the forests for its own use and attempted to lock out the commoners. It didn’t work out. It wouldn’t here. As sad as it is, there is, possibly,  no other way to preserve our

outdoors. If that is true then there is no chance for preservation. Let us hope we can find a feasible way instead. . . .Politicians can now garner enough votes  to get elected by promising a group of individuals more welfare or unemployment or legal status or whatever, the point is . . .politicians will gladly rape and loot and pillage our resources for another kick-back or term in office.

Yes, well, that’s virtual democracy for you. Destroy the Constitution, which while still alive circumscribed the areas of activity permitted to the federal government, and what you get in the age of mass media and bloc voting is a government of unlimited powers, including the power to destroy. You also get pols in charge willing and free to do anything, anything at all, that helps them cling to power through just one more election. Who then will watch over what we know, under the present system, will one day be gone forever…our children will likely never see an old growth forest.

Yes, that is quite likely. Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em, while they last. The majority of the time, our influence on young lives is not enough to counter-balance the E. F. Hutton and Niki ads.

No one with such a skewed view of the problem has a prayer of finding a solution. It is not just mass marketers who are creating the culture of immediate gratification that drives virtual democracy. It is also the pols who claim to be working on behalf of those very young lives you mention, and the bureaucrats they hire to carry out the policies bought by the bloc votes and money fountains that give them power. The American state has become a vast superstructure of institutions, public, private and hybrid, that are steadily building their own interlocked system of autonomy and are subject to an ever decreasing level of control by the people. How many representatives would prosper by telling those in the inner cities, " They would have more if we didn’t waste money on those old parks and forests that no one ever goes to anyway?"

Most representatives who have such constituents of course say that to them, though often not in so many words. Elected representatives habitually pander to bloc votes. It’s what they do for a living. The problem is not that, it is that we have allowed the rise of a government, hand in hand with other institutions not usually (and, IMO, mistakenly) not typically seen as part of government, not strictly limited in its permitted powers. That gives those representatives the means to seize and use the people’s resources (all kinds, including tax monies, public lands, whatever) to pay whatever their various bloc votes and campaign contributors demand as the sale price for their critical support during elections. What effect would our voices then have in the overall scheme of things.

By "our" voices, I suppose you mean those of us who love the American outdoors. We tend to be individualistic. Our voices, plural, are individually insignificant against the roar of the organized special interests. We sometimes try organizing ourselves, but it goes against the grain because in order to do it each of us is still forced to subordinate his voice within what inevitably becomes just another special interest institution, one that claims to represent us but that always ends up representing the preferences of a clique or bloc, thus becoming corrupt in exactly the same way the institutions the one we are deluded is "ours" is working to influence. We thereby become part of the problem. . . .sometimes I think about things like this . . .and then, like I am doing tomorrow, I go fishing before it’s all gone . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Smart man. That may well be all you can do. My solution, in fact I think the only possible solution, is reform of the political system to establish a new structure of limits on the power of the American state. That is a revolutionary view, and I do not know how to bring about such drastic change. At least as long as we are as prosperous and well-defended as we now are it is most unlikely to happen, and that means we will continue to experience an erosion of both control of the established power structure of our own society and the resources we outdoors lovers need to pursue our passion. I suspect you right to enjoy what’s left while you can. Stephen W. Anderson Rocky Mount, NC

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I support fees. I think that sufficent user fees should be charged for the BLM and park services to be self-sufficient, BUT NO MORE. At times the adminstration has starved the system, and others treated as a source of general revenues. The US park and land system is one of the better in the world and a major source of international tourism.

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I support fees. I think that sufficent user fees should be charged for the BLM and park services to be self-sufficient, BUT NO MORE. At times the adminstration has starved the system, and others treated as a source of general revenues. The US park and land system is one of the better in the world and a major source of international tourism.

This is all true, but some see the recreation fee program as an effort to shift the burden of support to recreation, and when those revenues fail to meet the needs of the public lands the resource extractors will step in and say "See?  Those hikers and fishermen don’t really want all that land, so give it to us instead."   For over a century federal tax revenues have subsidized the extraction of minerals, grazing of cattle, and harvest of timber from the public lands.  Why should recreationists– whose impact is minimal and needs are few –suddenly be asked to carry the weight when corporate America still benefits from subsidies? Why, for example, shouldn’t an excise tax on minerals pay for campgrounds? If you look at who is supporting the recreation fee demonstration program the lines become clear.  If agribusiness, big timber, and mining corporations are for it, then who do you think really stands to benefit? Recreation lands need federal support, but that support should come from those that are converting publically owned resources into private profit, not families that spend two weekends a year camping on the National Forest. -drl — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University        Dept. of History                 "Nothing interesting occurred today…"         -Meriwether Lewis at Ft. Clatsop, Oregon, Jan.4th, 1806

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(comments about the pressures caused by immigration were here)

Seems like damn near every person has their own private Bogyman about why the fishing and the hunting and the open spaces have gone to hell and their own solution (none of which are going to work) and no one will admit to the real cause.  When I was kid the US population was just under a million and a half and I had a ball.  Be glad you’re not in your grand kids shoes.  Even if they live in Deer Park, Montana they won’t they won’t be able to see much difference if they move to the Bronx.  The days of open space are gone.  Be glad you at least saw the tail end. Hank

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Seems like damn near every person has their own private Bogyman about why the fishing and the hunting and the open spaces have gone to hell and their own solution (none of which are going to work) and no one will admit to the real cause.  When I was kid the US population was just under a million and a half and I had a ball.  Be glad you’re not in your grand kids shoes.  Even if they live in Deer Park, Montana they won’t they won’t be able to see much difference if they move to the Bronx.  The days of open space are gone.  Be glad you at least saw the tail end. Hank

Hey Hank, you must be pretty old if the US population was 1.5 million people when you were a kid.   For what it’s worth, most population experts are expecting the world population to hit a peak in the next century and begin to decline. Later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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Just how old are you Hank….One and a half mil….bout 1810 or therabouts? Waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (comments about the pressures caused by immigration were here) Seems like damn near every person has their own private Bogyman about why the fishing and the hunting and the open spaces have gone to hell and their own solution (none of which are going to work) and no one will admit to the real cause.  When I was kid the US population was just under a million and a half and I had a ball.  Be glad you’re not in your grand kids shoes.  Even if they live in Deer Park, Montana they won’t they won’t be able to see much difference if they move to the Bronx.  The days of open space are gone.  Be glad you at least saw the tail end. Hank

–          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS/HOME.HTM

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Sorry Ken, sometimes the fingers get going before the brain.  That was 150 million in the thirties.  Got any solution for the excess 5 Billion that showed up in the interim?  I don’t, Hank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey Hank, you must be pretty old if the US population was 1.5 million people when you were a kid.   For what it’s worth, most population experts are expecting the world population to hit a peak in the next century and begin to decline. Later,     – Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

Response:

I support fees. I think that sufficent user fees should be charged for the BLM and park services to be self-sufficient, BUT NO MORE. At times the

Why single out recreation for fees?  What about education, highways, national defense?  And if recreationists are paying fees to use the forest, why are loggers and miners in the same forest subsidized? Take this fee-based taxation to the extreme, and you’ll see how miserable life can be.  Just imaging the nuisance if all roads were toll roads. Government is a necessary institution, and I prefer paying for it once per year, not every time I turn around. Also note: these fees do not go to the BLM or park service.  They go into the general fund, just like your income tax. Finally, and I think this is the most important point of all, if the value of public lands is measured in economic terms — how much the visitor is willing to pay — this is the first step toward selling off the public lands to the highest bidder.  If visitors are only willing to pay $100, and developers are willing to pay $1000, does that mean the developers should have their way?  I believe the value of public lands lies much deeper than mere economy. — -Wayne Trzyna                           Fight spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition  http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~trzyna    See http://www.cauce.org/

Response:

Sorry Ken, sometimes the fingers get going before the brain.  That was 150 million in the thirties.  Got any solution for the excess 5 Billion that showed up in the interim?  I don’t,

NATO and Milosevic are working on that problem as hard as they both can do. Give ‘em time. Stephen W. Anderson Rocky Mount, NC

Response:

    I’m actually not entirely sure where I stand on this issue. Fishermen and hunters have to pay for their activities on public lands.

The point is that under the proposed legislation, in addition the fishing license you already have to buy, and the campground fee you already have to pay, you will also have to pay simply for just being there by the River.  The experimental fee programs mentioned already charge $5 per day at the Bighorn and Green rivers for instance.   I personally find these programs an obnoxious nuisance at best. Every time I turn around I’m filling out paper-work, paying fees, running around trying to find correct change, etc.  This is not what a visit to a trout-stream is supposed to be about. This is irrespective of the fact that this is a clandestine tax increase.  These fees go into the general fund.  They are not applied to the areas that collect them.  Nor are national park entrance fees, by the way.  And I’m glad of that.  Because the more money the park-managers get, the more they build bureaucratic empires, erect roads and visitors centers, pass pointless regulations, and deploy a standing army of park-police.  This is not what a visit to a trout-steam is supposed to be about. I for one feel strongly about this issue and will write a letter. — -Wayne Trzyna                           Fight spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition  http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~trzyna    See http://www.cauce.org/

Response:

Question:

I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

Response:

Practical Fishing Knots II is the 2nd edition of Practical Fishing Knots. It’s an excellent book. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated. Dave

Response:

No offense to Lefty and Mark, they are tops. However, their books on knots, while best sellers are sort of twisted. Just try tying a Bimini twist for the first time with one knee as stated in their instructions. You can get better basic info for the majority of knots for free by writing Ande Monofilament, 1310 53rd St. West Palm Beach, FL 33407…. Much better instructions. Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY (no connection to Ande) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

Response:

 Knots on the Web (Peter Suber) is a great site with eveything you could ever want to know about all kinds of knots.  It’s one of those pages that makes you say "WOW, I had no idea THIS many people were fascinated by KNOTS!"   From there, you can find specific pages that meet your needs and interests.  Try using your browser to search the page for the word "fish" if you don’t feel like scan the page manually for fishing-related knot pages.  There are several that are fly fishing-specific. In case your news reader doesn’t support html, the URL is: http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/knotlink.htm Hope it helps, Joe Bollinger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

Response:

Question:

I’m looking for a quiet weekend spot to camp that preferably isn’t in a campground, is relatively easily accessible by novice hikers and within a few hours drive from Boston or Providence (anywhere in RI, CT, western MA, southern NH, VT, or ME).  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Please mail

Response:

I’m looking for a quiet weekend spot to camp that preferably isn’t in a campground, is relatively easily accessible by novice hikers and within a few hours drive from Boston or Providence

Jay, On my homepage click on "resources" and you will find a link to all of Vermont’s state parks. Good luck. James Ehlers Underhill, Vermont Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors 2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

OK Tim, this is an ad so I consider it fair game!   — William J. Hobson, CNE,CNA Network and Computing Support Services Texas Engineering Experiment Station Phone: (409) 845-5808

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PLEASE EVERY BODY dont wast your money on this, if you want real advise book a charter boat captian, they’ll teach you how to do all that with PRIVATE instruction and are usually CHEAPER. Here is one I know http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/toccoa/Default.htm#Captain -Paradoxal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors 2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

Response:

For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors                         2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

Response:

Question:

I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not hip waders.  The hip boots are not so snug as neoprene and they just go up far enough to make you think you can wade in a shallow stream, then after a few steps about knee deep you step six inches deeper and suddenly have a water parachute strapped onto each leg. Damn right these things can kill you if you’re in heavy water when this

happens. You’re right, Mark. In my lexicon, "hip waders" end at a belt around the waist, while "hip boots" (which I gather is the actual topic) end around mid-thigh, and certainly can’t be "belted"… The above perspective may be due to being 6′5" tall: they don’t make "hip boots" that come to *my* hips, that’s for sure ;^) The only time I wear "hip boots" is when launching or reloading my boat – I’d wet-wade before I’d ever use a pair of those for fishing… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not The only time I wear "hip boots" is when launching or reloading my boat – I’d wet-wade before I’d ever use a pair of those for fishing… Cheers! /dave

Hi Dave, I’ve been watching this thread and for the most part agree about hip boats if you’re talking bigger water. They ARE no fun to swim in (voice of experience), but you’re not typically in chest deep water if you do go down when wearing hip boots.  Unless you oopsy and find a deep hole because you weren’t probing with your wading staff, or get washed into deep water you can usually get stood up again without too much problem.   But! When fishing very fast and rough water where I’m not quite crazy enough to wade over knee deep, or fishing small and/or well known streams, I much prefer "hip boots".  I can roll them down to get some air to vital parts, and they are much less restrictive (to me).  Scratching is easier too. I guess I’m a wuss, ’cause if I’m wading water that I know has sections over my head, or I don’t know well, I get real nervous about wading in very deep…. War story……. The last time I went down with hip boots the water was only about 30" deep.  I drug a hand to keep my head upstream, was washed into a deeper hole, stood up, and walked out.  That walk might have been a little rushed, since it was November and the water was a bit cool. I wasn’t wearing a pfd since I know the river well and have fished it for thirty years.  It was no big drama, except the walk back to the truck was miserable. If it had been a strange stream, I’d have had a pfd on and floated to the next shallow stretch, or swam to shore.  In my chest waders. Steve

Response:

FYI: I once read somewhere that Lee Wulff jumped off a bridge with waders, head first no less, to prove a point about waders filling with water. I can’t remember if they were hip or chest waders. Maybe someone else has come across this story.

No big deal for Lee…the man walked on water… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

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   About 5 years ago, a visiting fisherman ventured too far out off of Oregon Beach in Cotuit (Cape Cod) and disappeared. If I remember correctly, they found what was left of him a few weeks later. The accident was attributed to his lack of knowledge of the area, which is riddled with deep water holes, and the fact that he could not get out of his waders. It happens…

Well, as apparently "what was left of him" couldn’t answer whether the waders had anything to do with his disappearance, the waders may not actually have been a factor. We lose many swimmers (not wearing waders, obviously) from undertow along the New England coast than that. I’ve swamped in my waders in heavy water (eg: Rapid River, and the Andy below the Gage House pool) and never felt at additional risk from the waders. Wear a friggin’ belt – common sense at work, imho… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

Is this discussion about panic or real danger ? If you fall in with hippers and panic…yer dead.   If you fall in with hippers and stay cool…yer alive. That’s what they tell you anyway…I dunno…. Once at a party a well intentioned but rather inebriated good friend pushed me into the deep end of the private pool.  I had on big hiking boots and levis. (Quite the pool-party-animal that I am….).  I honestly got really scared when I tried to swim but could not, sinking like a rock. On the bottom, I pushed off the bottom enough that I made it to the edge.  I’d have to think that most cases in rivers, streams and lakes, you could essentially do the same thing.  A big dropoff though ?  A man in Boulder reservoir died in hippers just this way a few years back.  Hippers in big water I think is very, very dangerous.  Not from filling with water, but because the boots themselves are more dense. TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Hmm, hip waders are dangerous, and significantly more so than chest waders. The Lee Wulff stunt was done with neoprene chest waders. Neoprene is lighter than water and will help you float. The problems with hip waders are that they fill very quickly and they open up “parachute style”. More often than not they are made of rubber, which does not float. I have been dragged away by a river both in chest neoprene waders and in rubber hip waders, and the hip waders accident was much much more scary, I thought I would have to slip off them. Hip waders often have a buckle on the side, so you can strap them to your belt. The fist thing I would do when I bougth a new pair of hip waders was to cut the damn thing off, so that, in case of emergency, it would be much easier to slip off them. This was suggested to my by the most experienced fisherman I know and by the owner of the shop I used to go to when I was in Italy. I have heard of enough accidents with hip waders back in Europe to consider them dangerous in large bodies of water.  In small bodies of water, though, they are definitely preferable, as they are much easier to get in and out of, IMHO. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

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I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not hip waders.  The hip boots are not so snug as neoprene and they just go up far enough to make you think you can wade in a shallow stream, then after a few steps about knee deep you step six inches deeper and suddenly have a water parachute strapped onto each leg. Damn right these things can kill you if you’re in heavy water when this happens. I don’t think there is a practical fishing use for these, maybe for landing fish when you are shorefishing but not for wading.  Even waist height waders make a big difference where it counts most because you can belt them. If you use hip waders you should get some lacy garters to go with them.   MarK Vinsel Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

– http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Michael,     About 5 years ago, a visiting fisherman ventured too far out off of Oregon Beach in Cotuit (Cape Cod) and disappeared. If I remember correctly, they found what was left of him a few weeks later. The accident was attributed to his lack of knowledge of the area, which is riddled with deep water holes, and the fact that he could not get out of his waders. It happens… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Hi Michael I’ve not personally seen a death from hip waders but have over the years helped fly fishers who "went too far" while using hip waders on three occasions. One on the Madison River would have ended in a drown had a friend and I not been handy to pull the guy out of the water. With the full waders I don’t know if I could have pulled him out alone — the current and the full waders made for a very heavy load. I personally think hip waders are and accident waiting to happen but I’m sure there are many who would not agree. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

FYI: I once read somewhere that Lee Wulff jumped off a bridge with waders, head first no less, to prove a point about waders filling with water. I can’t remember if they were hip or chest waders. Maybe someone else has come across this story. B.

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

This is a regular, tho I’m glad to say, infrequent occurence during the fishing season in Scotland. It is wholly unnecessary because many anglers panic when they "go over the top" and do not know how to react (although sometimes drowning results from a secondary factor like heart attact from the shock as happened on the Spey last year). If you do fall in the procedure is to get on your back, keep your feet well up and pointing downstream (your feet will hit the rocks rather than your head) and paddle with your hands towards the shallow water. The late Hugh Falkus of Cumbria and flyfisher extrordinaire made an excellent video of this when he was about, I think, 70 years old, demonstrating in person. The demonstration was also shown on one the TV angling programmes over here a few years back. Hope this helps – Ian — Ian McCowen – Polwarth Manse, Greenlaw, Berwickshire TD10 6YR SCOTLAND (fine old books on Shooting, Fishing, Natural History bought & sold)

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Question:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

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I use a quick double nail knot and then super glue it. I’ve been using this method on 9 through 13 wt. lines without any problems. This seems to be a standard method down here in South Florida. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

Response:

I just used a single nail knot on mine and it has held through  several dozen tarpon and miscellaneous other fish.  I put a coat of cement over the top, primarily  to smooth it out.  There are probably better knots, but this one was good enough.  good luck. I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

– Tim Ackerman "everyone lives downstream"

Response:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

Is that a solid monocore or a braided monocore?  If it’s a solid core I would normally strip off a few inches of coating, tie an overhand knot in the core and slide the butt through it, then tie a nail knot with the butt to the core, being sure to snug it down against the overhand. George Anderson and I tested this knot on the Monic line last year and it seemed to be the only one that was 100%. Marshall

Response:

I just got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

        A needle nail knot.  No matter how slippery the line may be,         that one’s not going to come loose.                                         Tom Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 External Research Program                          FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

Response:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

We use the Albright knot to attach the butt section to the front of the flyline. On the rear of the line we fold it back to form a small loop. We then nail knot it twice to form a loop. We tie a Bimini Twist in the backing and loop that to the flyline. We use Goodyear Pliobond cement on all the knots to make them more streamline. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Similar to Tom’s suggestion:  make a loop out of braided mono, slide it over the fly line, tie a nail knot with 10-12# mono at end of braided mono, then touch it with a drop of "super glue".  This will give you a loop for loop-to-loop connection and it won’t come off. Dave Cornue

Response:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section? Is that a solid monocore or a braided monocore?  If it’s a solid core I would normally strip off a few inches of coating, tie an overhand knot in the core and slide the butt through it, then tie a nail knot with the butt to the core, being sure to snug it down against the overhand. George Anderson and I tested this knot on the Monic line last year and it seemed to be the only one that was 100%. Marshall

What people call slime line are those clear no-core lines.  They look like a fat mono. Nix on the needle knot. I found with the mastery stillwater and only one nail knot that it squeezed the slime line until it weakened and slipped or broke.  I use and found a good and easy knot is to tie two or three nail knots in a row.  Just leave the tag line 12 inches long on the first one, cinch it tight, then tie another a half-inch up the line. Before you pull this one tight, slide it a bit up the line so it will all be smooth when you pull it tight. Repeat again if you wish. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

THE ALBERTSON KNOT. Mr. G.

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Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

My wife and I are driving our camper to Alaska this summer (with part of the trip on the Alaska ferry).  Along with the sightseeing and flyfishing, I do need to keep in touch with my office (unfortunate, but true) because I will be gone for an extended period.  Does anyone have any experience with cellular phones in southeast or southcentral Alaska?  When you get away from Anchorage or Fairbanks, is there any reasonable service?  Thanks for any information.  Please E-mail me in

Response:

: My wife and I are driving our camper to Alaska this summer (with part : of the trip on the Alaska ferry).  Along with the sightseeing and : flyfishing, I do need to keep in touch with my office (unfortunate, : but true) because I will be gone for an extended period.  Does anyone : have any experience with cellular phones in southeast or southcentral : Alaska?  When you get away from Anchorage or Fairbanks, is there any : reasonable service?  Thanks for any information.  Please E-mail me in I recommend that you ignore all answers to this question.  Just go.  If the cell phone doesn’t work, shrug your shoulders, put it in the glove compartment, and tell the office that at least you tried…when you get back. You’ll be oh-so-much more productive for having taken a real vacation, after all. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

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: My wife and I are driving our camper to Alaska this summer (with part : of the trip on the Alaska ferry).  Along with the sightseeing and : flyfishing, I do need to keep in touch with my office (unfortunate, : but true) because I will be gone for an extended period.  Does anyone : have any experience with cellular phones in southeast or southcentral : Alaska?  When you get away from Anchorage or Fairbanks, is there any : reasonable service?  Thanks for any information.  Please E-mail me in Get serious. It’s time you learned what the word "rural" means.  And you better expect about three days without that precious phone in Canada.  What am I saying…might as well switch it off when you get to Montana. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Question:

I bought my first float tube in the 60s and my first pontoon boat (a Leigh) three  months ago.  I’ll never get in a float tube again.  I have the oars setup and it sure gets me back to my truck in winds a lot easier than finning a tube.  Also, the chap that mentioned that getting in and out of a tube once a session so it doesn’t bother him either fishes short days or is considerably younger than I with a much strong bladder — and I don’t mean a tube bladder.

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I’ve used both a tube and two other pontoon kickboats and would recomend the pontoon kickboats for the following reasons. Easier to get in and out of. You sit up higher and can see into the water better They’re faster than the traditional floatube With oar attachments they’re really faster! I use a JW Outfitters Backpacker that is easier to backpack into lakes than an inflated float tube. This one is made for backpacking. A group of us have been float tubing the boundary waters and Sylvania wilderness area for the last 7 years and live in our tubes 10 hours a day for a week, so I’m pretty peticular and have thought a lot about this. However, I’m now looking at the Hobie Float by Hobie Cat. It has roto molded pontoons and can be backpacked (24lbs). No more pumps and patches for the inflatable tubes!! Neat looking stuff. Local shop is getting a demo in and will probably fish it next week. As Dennis Miller says, " That’s just my opinion; I could be wrong." Good luck with your purchase. – Denny Redmond

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tell me more about Leigh ppontoon boats-e.g. size, wt, price etc.does it spin a lot in the wind like a boat?

Response:

Rook, I do not know about Leigh pontoon boats but do know about the water otter.  It is 6ft 6inches X 44inches x 12inches weights 23 lb dry and about 32 with everthing.  The capacity is 300lbs.  Made out of 32oz. PVC 11oo Denier and the frame is 1 inch square aluminum tube.  I have used this oar pontoon boat on the Big Horn, Green River and the lower Sac.  I would not suggest that you get a kick pontoon boat ( with out the ability to use oars) a Caddis pontoon kick boat was used in the unfortunte (SP) accident last weekend on the green river.  Man died. Email me direct if you want more infor. on Water Otter.  Good luck. Regards, Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -tell me more about Leigh ppontoon boats-e.g. size, wt, price etc.does it spin a lot in the wind like a boat?

Response:

]I’d welcome any and all comments and recommendations. Well, here’s more than you ever wanted to hear about float tubes… I own the U Boat from The Creek Company.  Having used both round and U tubes, and recommend the U boat heavily, mainly for the ease of getting in and out of it.  There are probably a myriad of ways to get in and out of these things, but when you have flippers on, stepping through the middle of a round tube, while avoiding the seat, and still keeping your balance, well, let’s just say it takes practice.  I’ve also heard from people who’ve used a round boat for awhile, that it actually starts to wear the knees of neoprene waders, from the rubbing when you’re kicking in the water. I’ve used the Buck’s U tube, and unless they’ve changed it, what I didn’t like about it was the heavy metal bar that goes across the opening of the "U".  This is what keeps the open ends of the U from collapsing on your legs while you’re in the water.  The U Boat uses straps along the backside of the U to keep the open end of the U open and it works well.  (You pull them tight after inflating it.)  I didn’t like the bar on the Buck’s tube, because it added weight, and didn’t allow you to roll up the tube tightly when deflated. I had a chance to briefly demo both the U Boat and Gliderider (at a flyfishing show), and it was strictly a personal choice that I picked the U Boat.  I like the Gliderider, it seemed make me slouch, almost like a recliner chair.  With the U Boat, I was more upright.   I ended up buying my U Boat at the show, and their salesman made a strong pitch (as you would expect from a salesman) about their lifetime guarantee with NORMAL use, and how their seems are so much better sealed than competitors.  Take that for what it’s worth. Any shop worth its salt should let you demo a tube.  There are so many of these out there (and even more now with variants of pontoons & other "personal floatation devices"), that I think it would be impossible to make a decision based on catalogue pictures and testimony from others. Whatever you choose, enjoy!  These things are the greatest invention since the fly rod/ ree, and they’ll open up access to more water than you could get to without.  – Bill Uyeki

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I’d recommend a pontoon style.  It’s easier to handle colder water because you have less body in the water.  It’s easier to get around in larger laker because you can use oars — and in smaller lakes it is just as easy to manuver as a regular float tube. Brian

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m about to buy my first float tube. I’ve ruled out the old round style and am leaning toward a u-shaped model although I have not ruled out a pontoon-type craft. I don’t want to spend more than $300. That puts me near the high end of u-boats. I’ve looked at the Buck’s Bullet and I’ve also received a recommendation for the Wood River Gliderunner. This is the low end for pontoon-style boats. I think Buck’s has one for $295. Don’t get me wrong, I would spend less than $300 but I want a good quality, well-designed product. Since this will be my only craft it must be versatile. My waters are large, potentially windy resevoirs and also small, walk-in lakes. I could conceivably also tube in the kelp beds off the coast here (So. Cal.) I’m 6′-4" and 190lbs. I’d welcome any and all comments and recommendations.

Hmmm…If/when you settle on a float tube, make sure that it’s sized appropriately. At 6′4" and 190 you may be riding low in the water with some of the tubes out there – especially the u-boats (speakin’ from experience – I’m 6′5", headin’ for 230 (ugh!) and I use a Buck’s Giant "old style" tube to keep me high on the water). Also, realize that while the u-boats are indeed easier to get in and out of, on a windy day the waves will be breaking on your chest instead of against the tube… Anyway…I’m partial to the tubes over the pontoons as the tubes are easier to pack into remote ponds up in the Maine/NH woods (of course, I do have a 12′ canoe for situations where I guess a pontoon would otherwise be used). Of course, this is all entirely subjective stuff… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

   Well, not to be a party pooper, but I’ve been perfectly happy with my totally-basic-no-frills Caddis round tube…it’s as tough and sturdy as any other model they make…it just doesn’t have the Lay-Z-Boy recliner back and all the pockets.  Best of all, it only costs about $80.    Do you really need a "U-boat?"  Why?  I have no trouble getting in and out of mine (and I usually only need to do it once once I’m on the water).    Just my 2 cents’ worth. —         Scott Wilkinson         Montgomery County, Maryland

Response:

I have both a round tube and a Gliderider.  The Gliderider is definitely easier to use and easier to handle in wind.  While not a necessity, the V style is great.  I find that in the round tube, I bang up against the front of the tube when trying to move through the water quickly and it becomes annoying.  I am 6′ and I would imagine that at 6′ 4" you will have this problem too.  I was also attracted to the Gliderider because of its weight and portability.  At 6 lbs 11oz you can deflate it and stuff it into a duffel when traveling.  It’s easy to blow up without a pump (something you can’t do easily with a truck tire).  These lightweight bladders are available for a round tube but they cost ~ 50 – 80 bucks. You can buy a bigger and lighter round tube, but the cost will approach the Gliderider.  My girlfriend likes my round tube much better than the V tube because it lets her get a tan much easier without getting too wet. At least she can have a good time while I get to go fishing. Steve

Response:

I’ve had the Caddis Premier U-tube for the last 2 years and have been extremely happy.  Lots of pockets.  I especially like the spreader bar that goes across the front.  It keeps it spread open while setting in it, and removes easy for entry and exit.  Cabella’s have them advertized right now for I think $159 including a pair of flippers. I dont think you can beat the deal if you want a U tube.  I looked extensively 2 years ago and decided this was the one I liked best. Good luck, & tight lines. Don Albrecht Donald Albrecht

Response:

I’m about to buy my first float tube. I’ve ruled out the old round style and am leaning toward a u-shaped model although I have not ruled out a pontoon-type craft. I don’t want to spend more than $300. That puts me near the high end of u-boats. I’ve looked at the Buck’s Bullet and I’ve also received a recommendation for the Wood River Gliderunner. This is the low end for pontoon-style boats. I think Buck’s has one for $295. Don’t get me wrong, I would spend less than $300 but I want a good quality, well-designed product. Since this will be my only craft it must be versatile. My waters are large, potentially windy resevoirs and also small, walk-in lakes. I could conceivably also tube in the kelp beds off the coast here (So. Cal.) I’m 6′-4" and 190lbs. I’d welcome any and all comments and recommendations. Thanks, Tim

Response: