Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snipped Actually it was the combination square that got ‘em. Guess it looked kinda ominous on the baggage checker screen. That plus the satchel clanked pretty good when I set it down on the belt. Hugh Well, yes. One of those does look a lot like a large caliber automatic assault machine pistol – with an adjustable range of 0 to 1200 yards – and you could easily be thrown out of school if you held it the wrong way in 9th grade shop class. — bill Theory don’t mean squat if it don’t work.

You mean today. When I went to high school, we were still in the shoot um up phase from WW2 and the Korean War. Hugh

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Change the brake fluid. Don in NH

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Curt: In the present world of airport paranoia, a bag full of metal things may present a real problem. You might be better off shipping a FedEx box of stuff to yourself at the RV seller’s address. Should be quite an adventure – good luck Frank Damp Anacortes, WA

Kinda reminds me of the time I was working on the house we bought in Allen Park Michigan. I needed a bunch of tools from home and packed them in a satchel, must have weighed 30 pounds. Got to the airport, tried to go through the metal detector (this was back in ‘78) and they said "no way". Had to run back and check the satchel in. Don’t know why they got concerned, there were just some wrenches, slip joint pliers, combination square, wood chisels, hacksaw, 24" aluminum level shortened to 18" and some sundry items <grin. Hugh

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Curt: In the present world of airport paranoia, a bag full of metal things may present a real problem. You might be better off shipping a FedEx box of stuff to yourself at the RV seller’s address. Should be quite an adventure – good luck Frank Damp Anacortes, WA Kinda reminds me of the time I was working on the house we bought in Allen Park Michigan. I needed a bunch of tools from home and packed them in a satchel, must have weighed 30 pounds. Got to the airport, tried to go through the metal detector (this was back in ‘78) and they said "no way". Had to run back and check the satchel in. Don’t know why they got concerned, there were just some wrenches, slip joint pliers, combination square, wood chisels, hacksaw, 24" aluminum level shortened to 18" and some sundry items <grin. Hugh It was that evil sawed-off level that did it. You should have left it at 24" – they hadn’t yet started harping on long range sniper levels back in 78. — bill Theory don’t mean squat if it don’t work.

Actually it was the combination square that got ‘em. Guess it looked kinda ominous on the baggage checker screen. That plus the satchel clanked pretty good when I set it down on the belt. Hugh

Response:

Curt: In the present world of airport paranoia, a bag full of metal things may present a real problem. You might be better off shipping a FedEx box of stuff to yourself at the RV seller’s address. Should be quite an adventure – good luck Frank Damp Anacortes, WA

Response:

<< So, any pointers would be helpfull.   This may be obvious, but don’t bring anything remotely flamable.  No flares, WD40 or even tools smelling of the stuff.  The airport inspectors have sensitive, if stupid sniffers. They do allow credit cards wiith high limits. Tom

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a couple of months searching I finally located a motorhome I’m comfortable buying, so the trip is set; fly from Anchorage to Iowa on the 20th of July, pick up the rig, go see Mom in Minnesota for a couple days, then haul out to Carson City Nevada to pick up a buddy, then back to Alaska.  I plan on using my checked baggage to bring along some tools, jumper cables, tape, wire…things like that (I’d rather NOT check a bag, but don’t see a carry-n going through with these things in it).  The rig is an 89 with 56k on it, I don’t expect any problems, but figure it won’t hurt to have some items along.  I plan to stop by a NAPA and pick up some belts, hoses, plugs and what-not, figure if I don’t use them, I can probably return them to my local NAPA (I’ll check on that before I leave).  Anyone have any suggestions on what else to have along?  I’ll have my cell phone with me, but don’t know that it’ll do anything for me in Canada.  If NAPA ok’s the return of the parts, I’ll probably grab an alternator and a water pump too. This trip is pretty much going to be a death march to get the rig home, I don’t plan on a whole lot of sight-seeing, or pleasure taking, but if anyone has info on a "must see" along the way I’d love to hear it.  Campgrounds to avoid would be another bonus.  For the most part though, we plan to split the driving, and not spend alot of idle time, as we are trying to meet friends in Seward for a week of fishing.  Once we get there we’ll wind down from the trip.  So, any pointers would be helpfull.  BTW, I have a milepost, so I got taht covered.  Thanks – Curt Quite an adventure.   Hoses and belts are a good idea, but I’d be more worried about tires and brakes.  They’re what’ll get you killed.  Have the radiator checked and flushed.  And you can leave the jumper cables and tools at home, they’re cheap down here.  You can buy a whole set of tools for fifty bucks.  Bring lots of money instead.  You may need it somewhere around Liard Springs. Two words.  Duct Tape. Talk about a leap of faith.  Whew. Bob

Good advice, the tires are nearly new, but I had thought about brakes…a slight change in plans has me going to Idaho instead of NV, so I don’t have to do any huge mountain slopes…I was considering just changing all the pads and bleeding the system before I started back. Duct tape is definately on the list though.  Yeah, it is a huge leap of faith, I’ve talked to the guy wqho owns it, and he assures me I’ll be happy with it…likely story I’m sure, but for now I’ll play the faith in human nature role, and hope it works out, if not, I guess I’ll fly back home and start looking again.  Thanks for the advice, like I said, I’d rather fly down with just a carry on and no checked bags, we’ll see how it works out.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -After a couple of months searching I finally located a motorhome I’m comfortable buying, so the trip is set; fly from Anchorage to Iowa on the 20th of July, pick up the rig, go see Mom in Minnesota for a couple days, then haul out to Carson City Nevada to pick up a buddy, then back to Alaska.   I plan on using my checked baggage to bring along some tools, jumper cables, tape, wire…things like that (I’d rather NOT check a bag, but don’t see a carry-n going through with these things in it).  The rig is an 89 with 56k on it, I don’t expect any problems, but figure it won’t hurt to have some items along.  I plan to stop by a NAPA and pick up some belts, hoses, plugs and what-not, figure if I don’t use them, I can probably return them to my local NAPA (I’ll check on that before I leave).  Anyone have any suggestions on what else to have along?  I’ll have my cell phone with me, but don’t know that it’ll do anything for me in Canada.  If NAPA ok’s the return of the parts, I’ll probably grab an alternator and a water pump too.  This trip is pretty much going to be a death march to get the rig home, I don’t plan on a whole lot of sight-seeing, or pleasure taking, but if anyone has info on a "must see" along the way I’d love to hear it.  Campgrounds to avoid would be another bonus.  For the most part though, we plan to split the driving, and not spend alot of idle time, as we are trying to meet friends in Seward for a week of fishing.  Once we get there we’ll wind down from the trip.   So, any pointers would be helpfull.  BTW, I have a milepost, so I got taht covered.  Thanks – Curt

Quite an adventure.   Hoses and belts are a good idea, but I’d be more worried about tires and brakes.  They’re what’ll get you killed.  Have the radiator checked and flushed.  And you can leave the jumper cables and tools at home, they’re cheap down here.  You can buy a whole set of tools for fifty bucks.  Bring lots of money instead.  You may need it somewhere around Liard Springs. Two words.  Duct Tape. Talk about a leap of faith.  Whew. Bob

Response:

After a couple of months searching I finally located a motorhome I’m comfortable buying, so the trip is set; fly from Anchorage to Iowa on the 20th of July, pick up the rig, go see Mom in Minnesota for a couple days, then haul out to Carson City Nevada to pick up a buddy, then back to Alaska.    I plan on using my checked baggage to bring along some tools, jumper cables, tape, wire…things like that (I’d rather NOT check a bag, but don’t see a carry-n going through with these things in it).  The rig is an 89 with 56k on it, I don’t expect any problems, but figure it won’t hurt to have some items along.  I plan to stop by a NAPA and pick up some belts, hoses, plugs and what-not, figure if I don’t use them, I can probably return them to my local NAPA (I’ll check on that before I leave).  Anyone have any suggestions on what else to have along?  I’ll have my cell phone with me, but don’t know that it’ll do anything for me in Canada.  If NAPA ok’s the return of the parts, I’ll probably grab an alternator and a water pump too.   This trip is pretty much going to be a death march to get the rig home, I don’t plan on a whole lot of sight-seeing, or pleasure taking, but if anyone has info on a "must see" along the way I’d love to hear it.  Campgrounds to avoid would be another bonus.  For the most part though, we plan to split the driving, and not spend alot of idle time, as we are trying to meet friends in Seward for a week of fishing.  Once we get there we’ll wind down from the trip.    So, any pointers would be helpfull.  BTW, I have a milepost, so I got taht covered.  Thanks – Curt

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All that said they sure run well and only time will tell if all those moving parts really cause that much trouble. I suppose the timing belt is the big issue but I don’t see any dire warnings in my shop manual about crashed valves. From what I see the oil change is just the cost of the filter and a few bucks worth of oil (every 100 hours). Since I was burning over a pint of oil an hour that TCW3 adds up pretty fast. The reality is, if a fuel injected 2 stroke takes a crap offshore you probably ain’t fixin it either. I’ll take my chances. Being able to idle a mile up the canal and not stall in a cloud of smoke when I get close to the dock makes it all worthwhile. BTW Mercury 40-60 HPs are shipped "wet" and horizontal so leaking must not be a problem. Mine was ready to start when I opened the crate. What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go.

I have a carbureted 2 stroke – no computer or electronics to crap out anytime.  7 years old and still going with only spark plug and lower gearcase lube changes.

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Suzuki just came out with a 140 HP Four Stroke that weighs less than a 150 Two Stroke and has equal performance.  I think it was said earlier that you shouldn’t pull info out of your ass.  If you don’t know the facts, shut the F^ck up.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass)

Where do these weight figures come from – a brochure or website?  Ha !!  I trust those about as much as I trust Bill Clinton !!! I bet they weighed those 4 stroke motors dry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor.

Interesting that on the same web page, the 4 stroke Yamaha 30 weighs 198 lb. My guess, the 4 stroke 40 is listed for 181 lb with short shaft, manual start, manual tilt. The 4 stroke 30 comes only with long shaft, electric start, power trim&tilt, same as the 2 stroke 40 hp. Mod.

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I bet they weighed those 4 stroke motors dry.

Yup that 3 quarts of oil and 24 oz of 90w will really pack on the pounds. Me and the truck driver picked up my 60EFI Big Foot and it was still in the crate.

Response:

What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go. For most weekend boaters, the 2 stroke outboard is the more long term economic choice even if gas costs $2.50 per gallon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

All that said they sure run well and only time will tell if all those moving parts really cause that much trouble. I suppose the timing belt is the big issue but I don’t see any dire warnings in my shop manual about crashed valves. From what I see the oil change is just the cost of the filter and a few bucks worth of oil (every 100 hours). Since I was burning over a pint of oil an hour that TCW3 adds up pretty fast. The reality is, if a fuel injected 2 stroke takes a crap offshore you probably ain’t fixin it either. I’ll take my chances. Being able to idle a mile up the canal and not stall in a cloud of smoke when I get close to the dock makes it all worthwhile. BTW Mercury 40-60 HPs are shipped "wet" and horizontal so leaking must not be a problem. Mine was ready to start when I opened the crate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go.

Response:

One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info.

My guess is this: the purveyors of such possibilities don’t yet see the market willing to pay the excessive premium they charge for their higher horsepower four stroke engines. Relative to what they’d like to charge for a four stroke 175, the two strokes of that power are inexpensive. The guys who are buying the 200-225 four strokers don’t seem to mind giving away the excessive bucks. — Harry Krause – - A red is any son-of-a-bitch who wants thirty cents when we’re paying twenty five. – John Steinbeck

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Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

A hundred pounds out there on the end of that 12 inch jackplate on that Gambler is a little different than a gas tank in the middle of the boat.  That 4 stroke won’t work very well if it is underwater.  

Del, on the other hand, the guy with that setup doesn’t think twice about putting 200 lbs. of batteries right up against the transom, nor does he hesitate to hit the fill switch on his livewell, adding another 200 lbs. of water to the rear third of the boat.  Moving one battery forward will largely offset the penalty of a heavier motor. — Rich Stern www.nitroowners.com – The Nitro and Tracker Owners Web Site www.mypontoon.com – The Pontoon Boat Web Site

Response:

Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

So, what is your explanation of why there are no 150-175 HP 4strokes? del cecchi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass) Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

I imagine bass boat guys will show up at the 4 stroke dealer when their bans 2 strokes on the lakes. I hope the manufacturers are ready for them.

Response:

| says… | | One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to | replace my aging Yamahas??? | | pontificated: | | # Hello Enn, | # | # Thanks for the info. | | | | — | 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. | To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address. | | ______ | Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = | http://www.binaries.net | | Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 | stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? | | del cecchi | | | | I think this whole over blown ,over weight thing goes out the window as | soon as you load up your coolers full of beer and and extra friend nad | top off the gas tank!! | | I remember buying a 14speed bike (with a 3lb frame) and weighing | everythin in grams to be real light. As soon as I filled my water | bottles, that theory went out the window!! A hundred pounds out there on the end of that 12 inch jackplate on that Gambler is a little different than a gas tank in the middle of the boat.  That 4 stroke won’t work very well if it is underwater.   — Del Cecchi   Personal Opinions Only

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info. — 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address.

______ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION =

http://www.binaries.net Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? del cecchi

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info. — 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address. ______ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? del cecchi

I think this whole over blown ,over weight thing goes out the window as soon as you load up your coolers full of beer and and extra friend nad top off the gas tank!! I remember buying a 14speed bike (with a 3lb frame) and weighing everythin in grams to be real light. As soon as I filled my water bottles, that theory went out the window!!

Response:

Hello Enn, Thanks for the info. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Same in all European countries. Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Same in all European countries. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Question:

Ok, Steve, now that i’ve shown that photo to everyone in the four state area, i have a question.  How’d you make it look like i have an earring?  

You don’t? Look at the photo again and click on the "earring". The fish he was catching were not cooperating with the photographer (me) or the fish holder (RW).  

Bruce has a theory that the San Juan trout have been caught so many times that they’re wise to having their pictures taken. Sounds plausible. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I now have a picture of RW holding a fish underwater (the fish, not steve) that’s pretty damn big – it looks like a rainbow shark.  It was one of the fish that refused to be held for an above water photo, but since i’m an experienced crappy photographer i know to start shooting as soon as you can see the fish just in case.  steve, do me a favor and leave your mailing address on my home answering machine (505) 792-7774 and i’ll mail them out pronto.  i do have an above water shot of another fish also. of course i’ve also got about fifty shots of louie laplac happily fishing the kiddie hole in an attempt to beef up his stats  (just kidding louie) bruce h bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen

Response:

Bruiser writes: of course i’ve also got about fifty shots of louie laplac happily fishing the kiddie hole in an attempt to beef up his stats  (just kidding louie)

Oh, the pain!   You are a cruel, cruel man, Bruce.  Cruel.  I’ve always wanted to pave my lawn.  However, I think we could do fishdom a favor by paving the Kiddie Pool.  <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

<snip I’ve always wanted to pave my lawn. Dave, My personal preference was always green cement with my lawn mower painted white and placed  in the middle.  :-) Ernie

Response:

<snip I’ve always wanted to pave my lawn. Dave, My personal preference was always green cement with my lawn mower painted white and placed  in the middle.  :-) Ernie

A guy a few blocks from me simply filled his yard with rocks and put an old reel type push lawnmower in the yard with a sign that reads Rust In Peace. Seams quite elegant to me. Big Dale – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Thanks for the great report Danl.  Next time we’ll fish together more, but you were lucky to get to fish so much with willi, he really is the troutmaster.  And you’re a pool hustler.  See you in yellowstone or somewhere else soon. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen

Response:

Snoop Doggy Bob was decked out in his usual flaming glory and we complimented him on his obvious grasp of panache. The pictures that RW posted just don

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places Can you imagine how disgusting it would be to have someone who’s been handling worms all day in front of you in the buffet line ? Pawing over the prawns, fondling the foie gras, sticking his worm drenched digits in YOUR caviar ? Not sure Ken, but I believe you may have misinterpreted the question. Your reply suggests possible problems on returning to the lodge AFTER fishing.  I think a closer reading will reveal that Gavin was wondering why bait fishing is not allowed ON the buffet line.  A different kettle of fish altogether IMHO. Wolfgang um……are you gonna eat that?

Response:

don’t see too many beer cans, corn cans, Styrofoam worm containers, empty cigarette packs, soiled undershorts, motor oil bottles, cheeze-it wrappers and thrice used condoms left behind by fly fishermen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin Most fly-fisherman that I know have chosen to fly-fish over bait- fishing due to the challenge and enjoyment it brings to them.  Being alone or almost alone in the wild and walking up or down the river where they can feel as though they are part of the wild experience is a major part for many fly-fisherman.  Locations that cater to that type of experience often have a lot in stake in keeping the experience as pristine and pure as they can as well as keeping the fish as large and healthy as possible. A couple of states have asked their local anglers to help them with how to stock their local waters.  Would they rather catch: 1) a few large fish, or 2) many small fish.  Each state’s end result was "a few large fish."  This is especially true with fly-fisherman.  Fly-fisherman go to the lodges for the pristine experience, education, and to catch "The Big One." The problem with bait-fishing is that it spoils the experience and fishing conditions for the fly-fisherman.  Live bait, like worms, can contaminate the water with diseases, like whirling disease, which kills or harms the fish.  Treble hooks used for Power Bait are often swallowed and can not be removed without harming the fish.  Bait- fisherman fishing in groups allow their poles to rest against something while they wait for a fish to take-the-bait as they talk, make jokes, drink, and generally pas the time.  This is not the experience most fly- fisherman want to see as they come around a bend in the river. In locations that I fish where bait-fishing is also allowed, I cringe every time I see things like this.  I move through the area as fast as I can until I get to another pristine location which will always be farther than their voice travels.  I often find litter and discarded fishing-gear in locations that bait-fishermen were.  This also destroys the experience for me and generally makes my blood boil. Because of fly-fisherman like me that spend money to keep private locations like this alive, they have normally restrict the fishing to fly-fishing with C&R restrictions. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                            quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly-fishing. . . . When I want to go fly-fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only.  I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

Since you are only 16 and the only one in your family that enjoys fly- fishing, just go where your mom and dad take you. BTW, lodges will be different according to what the people in a given area want.  I have no idea what lodges are like in South Africa.  Since you own a fly-shop in South Africa, why don’t you tell us why the serious lodges are fly-fising only.  You are the South Africa Pro. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

I know how I am going on here I think I am a well respected fly fisherman in my area and I respect all other fly fisherman

Ah, the "I’m OK, You’re OK" psychology.  Well here we do things a little differently.  Sometimes it’s "I’m OK, You’re not OK", and sometimes it’s "I’m not OK, You’re not OK", but definitely "You’re not OK".  :-) Regards, Jeff

Response:

| Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly | | I know how I am going on here I think I am a well respected fly fisherman | in my area and I respect all other fly fisherman | | Ah, the "I’m OK, You’re OK" psychology.  Well here we do things a little | differently.  Sometimes it’s "I’m OK, You’re not OK", and sometimes it’s "I’m | not OK, You’re not OK", but definitely "You’re not OK".  :-) | | Regards, | Jeff Im not joking there are many people around here who look up to me mostly youngsters though, you see fly fishing is also relatively new around here I was probably the youngest fly fisherman around my area I started about 6 years ago aged 10 and was probably only one of a handful of people who could actually do it properly I went to a number of clinics so you see a lot of people look up to me because like I said fly fishing is new and I have caught species of fish that many fly fisherman have never heard of before in there life and I am still "EXPERIMENTING" with our other local fish especially carp, catfish etc. with very limited success so I try fly fishing when ever and where ever I can otherwise I go back to bait/spin fishing practice makes perfect and the best teacher around here are the fish hope I never upset any one just airing my views tight lines Gavin

Response:

I started about 6 years ago aged 10

Are you only 16 years old?  Just a lad.  All the power to you boy. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

told him what to buy at the local tackle store so he could fish nymphs with his spinning rod. Geez, I wish I had a son who liked to fish. (Forget about, Warren — I mean a sub-teenage boy.)

Sounds like there was one there you might be able to borrow once in a while. I suspect you both left with a grin on the face. Big Dale

Response:

Geez, I wish I had a son who liked to fish. (Forget about, Warren — I mean a sub-teenage boy.)

    right you are, rw; i’ve had two like that, and it’s tough to beat the memories.     …on the other hand, i also had a receptionist back in the mid 70’s who just *loved* to watch; on balance, i’d say it’s too close to call. wayno

Response:

 At 50 I tend to envy the lad.Ah for the years I spent at war to be returned to me so that all my memories were of the fish I lost and the fish I landed. Gavin you are in for some good memories by the time you reach 50. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  RVN 69-73  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started about 6 years ago aged 10 Are you only 16 years old?  Just a lad.  All the power to you boy. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also forgot to mention that I used to do spinfishing and baitfishing in south africa for the local species of fish (carp catfish bream etc.) these fish are almost impossible to catch on fly because dams are usually 30 meters deep (probably more) they were murky etc so I used to spin and bait fish as well(so fly fishing is not an option)  and disagree with what all you said as every one here uses a type of high protein bait made of dog food to catch trout I know how I am going on here I think I am a well respected fly fisherman in my area and I respect all other fly fisherman regards and tight lines Gavin

I think Lefty Kreh would differ with you.  I’ve seen a t.v. show where he was fly-fishing for carp in what looked like very deep water. Additionally, I’ve caught carp on a fly.  I’ve also seen others fly- fish for catfish.  My friend is in the Bahamas is right now fly-fishing for tuna, shark, and marlin.  He chose to do that instead of coming to the clave with me.  You would be surprised what you can fish for with a fly. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

______ Sir Gavin?  I you sure you’re not a trolling fisherman.  Where did  you park your boat? — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the sage continues"

  gink.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

After I caught my six trout and a couple of nice whitefish I let the kid fish with my rod, which was rigged with a bead-head pheasant tail and hare’s ear tandem and a foam indicator.

Ah… the joys of fucking nymph fishing!! Regards, Jeff

Response:

I also forgot to mention that I used to do spinfishing and baitfishing in south africa for the local species of fish (carp catfish bream etc.) these fish are almost impossible to catch on fly because dams are usually 30 meters deep (probably more) they were murky etc so I used to spin and bait fish as well(so fly fishing is not an option)  and disagree with what all you said as every one here uses a type of high protein bait made of dog food to catch trout I know how I am going on here I think I am a well respected fly fisherman in my area and I respect all other fly fisherman regards and tight lines Gavin

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That kid will never forget that day!  Cheers.  :-) Natty

Response:

don’t see too many beer cans, corn cans, Styrofoam worm containers, empty cigarette packs, soiled undershorts, motor oil bottles, cheeze-it wrappers and thrice used condoms left behind by fly fishermen

On my recently reported trip to the Stanislaus, we saw nothing but spin fishermen.  I won’t say that there was no trash, but my brother and I were able to pick up *every* piece of trash we saw, and take it back to the dumpster without a sack.  That means there wasn’t much trash. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

Response:

… I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places

Can you imagine how disgusting it would be to have someone who’s been handling worms all day in front of you in the buffet line ? Pawing over the prawns, fondling the foie gras, sticking his worm drenched digits in YOUR caviar ? Yuck. — Ken Fortenberry- and I hear bait fishermen smell bad too

Response:

… I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places Can you imagine how disgusting it would be to have someone who’s been handling worms all day in front of you in the buffet line ? Pawing over the prawns, fondling the foie gras, sticking his worm drenched digits in YOUR caviar ? Yuck.

What Ken’s tactfully saying is that they’ve seen your family and don’t want them to come. Joe F.

Response:

Bait fishing tends to result in gut hooked fish. This is not ideal for C&R. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

Response:

What Ken’s tactfully saying is that they’ve seen your family and don’t want them to come. Joe F.

Seen ‘em myself.  Never did like ‘em, their feet don’t match. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

… I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places Can you imagine how disgusting it would be to have someone who’s been handling worms all day in front of you in the buffet line ? Pawing over the prawns, fondling the foie gras, sticking his worm drenched digits in YOUR caviar ?

Not sure Ken, but I believe you may have misinterpreted the question. Your reply suggests possible problems on returning to the lodge AFTER fishing.  I think a closer reading will reveal that Gavin was wondering why bait fishing is not allowed ON the buffet line.  A different kettle of fish altogether IMHO. Wolfgang um……are you gonna eat that?

Response:

I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

Watch one of the bobber-bubbas fish for trout on a stream.  They’ll plop down beside a hole with their cooler and a lawn chair and wait for a trout to swim by and dunk their bobber.  They would just as soon plop down beside the hole you’re fishing in and seriously think they have the same opportunity to catch a trout out of that hole as you do; which by the time they get settled is probably true.  Damndest thing I ever saw involving a bobber-bubba fishing for trout was a pickup beside a trout stream, bubba in a lawn chair killing worms, his wife squatting over a 2 burner Coleman stove and a frying pan on the truck’s tailgate waiting for lunch. Don’t really understand it, Bluegill are better eating, custom made for bobber-bubbas, and a bobber-bubba and a fly fisherman can work the same pond with equal results for the frying pan.  The fly fisherman will just have more fun.  It’s also much more fun to watch a kid catch a bunch of Bluegill on a cane pole with a bobber than watch a kid not catch a trout on a cane fly rod. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

Most fly-fisherman that I know have chosen to fly-fish over bait- fishing due to the challenge and enjoyment it brings to them.  Being alone or almost alone in the wild and walking up or down the river where they can feel as though they are part of the wild experience is a major part for many fly-fisherman.  Locations that cater to that type of experience often have a lot in stake in keeping the experience as pristine and pure as they can as well as keeping the fish as large and healthy as possible. A couple of states have asked their local anglers to help them with how to stock their local waters.  Would they rather catch: 1) a few large fish, or 2) many small fish.  Each state’s end result was "a few large fish."  This is especially true with fly-fisherman.  Fly-fisherman go to the lodges for the pristine experience, education, and to catch "The Big One." The problem with bait-fishing is that it spoils the experience and fishing conditions for the fly-fisherman.  Live bait, like worms, can contaminate the water with diseases, like whirling disease, which kills or harms the fish.  Treble hooks used for Power Bait are often swallowed and can not be removed without harming the fish.  Bait- fisherman fishing in groups allow their poles to rest against something while they wait for a fish to take-the-bait as they talk, make jokes, drink, and generally pas the time.  This is not the experience most fly- fisherman want to see as they come around a bend in the river. In locations that I fish where bait-fishing is also allowed, I cringe every time I see things like this.  I move through the area as fast as I can until I get to another pristine location which will always be farther than their voice travels.  I often find litter and discarded fishing-gear in locations that bait-fishermen were.  This also destroys the experience for me and generally makes my blood boil. Because of fly-fisherman like me that spend money to keep private locations like this alive, they have normally restrict the fishing to fly-fishing with C&R restrictions. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

Response:

There’s a place in Stanley, right next to a hotel, that is heavily stocked with "catchable" (i.e., barely legal size) trout. I sometimes go there to catch six fish for dinner, to experiment with techniques, or just to pass the time. The other day there were some kids fishing there (staying at the hotel, I believe). They were using those weird colored salmon eggs that come in jars, and they were catching absolutely nothing. When I started fishing with my fly rod this one boy of about 12 years was fascinated, and when I started catching fish he was transfixed. These fish are so easy it’s ridiculous. They’ll eat various nymphs like popcorn. After I caught my six trout and a couple of nice whitefish I let the kid fish with my rod, which was rigged with a bead-head pheasant tail and hare’s ear tandem and a foam indicator. Pretty soon he got the knack of chucking the rig out into the main current and mending the line to get a more-or-less dead drift. After pulling off a couple of fish with a too vigorous hook set, he caught two fish in about 10 minutes, and I think I made a flyfishing convert. I told him what to buy at the local tackle store so he could fish nymphs with his spinning rod. Geez, I wish I had a son who liked to fish. (Forget about, Warren — I mean a sub-teenage boy.) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Question:

TOSHIBA is the DEVIL!!!

The biggest selling consumer laptop is Apple’s iBook. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

TOSHIBA is the DEVIL!!! COMPAQ is quickly heading the same direction! Ever since they launched the AERO line I’ve wanted to puke everytime someone made me work on one! (did I get my point across?) I’d sooner buy a clone than a nameless clone off the sidewalk than a Toshiba! Ugh! — Michael Era

Question:

Reminds me of the time I hooked a fish in the dorsal fin.  I thought it was a monster because it pulled so hard, then I saw where it was hooked.  They sure can pull when hooked that way. Ernie

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What I did experience,which was unusual, on an Irish stream this summer was lassooing a brown- it rose to a small dry spider style dry. I struck, and thought I had hooked a whopper.When I got it in, I found the tippet had gone 360 degrees round the belly of a small  fish, and the fly had caught up in the tippet. I had dragged the fish side ways through the water! regards, Gillaroo.

Response:

there’s an easy way not to get tangled in the reeds.. don’t cast into them they have been using the same dropper system in Ireland and Scotland from time immemorial- so I don’t think you have to worry about using a new or specific leader/dropper material???  Gillaroo

Response:

I have tied bass flies with a weed guard by using a loop of heavy leader material that guards the hook point but will still hook an bass that hits it. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – there’s an easy way not to get tangled in the reeds.. don’t cast into them they have been using the same dropper system in Ireland and Scotland from time immemorial- so I don’t think you have to worry about using a new or specific leader/dropper material??? Gillaroo

Response:

Gillaroo, Here in NSW Australia we can only use 2 flies. Lake fishing it is common practice. I always tie the second fly off the bend of the first. A friend I often fish with ties a 6" dropper for his top fly (like your method). He seems to get hung up more on reeds etc than I do, but it does allow the top fly to swim properly. He catches far more fish on his top fly than me – like a %^&* 8lb brown two weekends ago! I’m considering changing to the 6" dropper system but fear too much tangling during casting – what sort of mono do you use – is stiff stuff preferable. Cheers John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

We fish 90% of the time from the shore, hence the reed problem. It can also be a real bugger when trying to get land a fish and your second fly hooks up on a reed – that is one reason why some people here just use single wet flies. Do you really use a blood knot and tie the "bob" onto the tag? I can see it gives the nice 90 degree angle, but I wouldn’t have thought there would be much knot strength in the tag. Cheers John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

Ernie, I’ve never seen a trout fly with a weed guard – I think they (often) take the fly too delicately and the weed guard would let them spit the fly. Cheers John Knight Stdney FlyRodders’

Response:

If anyone wants a sketch of how I tie my droppers, please email me direct- Ill be happy to send one. Gillaroo

Response:

John,    I use a six turn blood knot and have never had a blood knot come apart. The dropper is actually an extension of the last section of leader, so even if the knot came apart the dropper would still be connected to the line. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We fish 90% of the time from the shore, hence the reed problem. It can also be a real bugger when trying to get land a fish and your second fly hooks up on a reed – that is one reason why some people here just use single wet flies. Do you really use a blood knot and tie the "bob" onto the tag? I can see it gives the nice 90 degree angle, but I wouldn’t have thought there would be much knot strength in the tag. Cheers John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

John,    I think if you read my post again you will see I said "bass flies". Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie, I’ve never seen a trout fly with a weed guard – I think they (often) take the fly too delicately and the weed guard would let them spit the fly. Cheers John Knight Stdney FlyRodders’

Response:

Some snipped for brevity What I did experience,which was unusual, on an Irish stream this summer was lassooing a brown- it rose to a small dry spider style dry. I struck, and thought I had hooked a whopper.When I got it in, I found the tippet had gone 360 degrees round the belly of a small  fish, and the fly had caught up in  the tippet. I had dragged the fish side ways through the water!  regards,  Gillaroo.

Reminds me of the time I hog tied & landed a steelhead without hooking it.  It apparently went for the dropper, got the main part of the leader (where the dropper was tied to the tag of the blood knot)wrapped once around its jaw. Meanwhile the tippet made a full nelson around its pectoral fins (from forward under the left pec, over the back, from the rear under the right pec)with the point fly hooked around the main part of the leader. The dropper was hanging free about an inch from its jaw. Until I got it close, I couldn’t figure out why it was giving such a poor fight. Before you buy.

Response:

John,    I have never used them for trout either, but if I were fishing Streamers or minnow imitations I might try it.  They hit them hard. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie, I know you said bass flies – I just don’t think bass fly style weed guards will work on trout flies. The only "weed guard" I’ve ever used on trout flies has been with hackle, by palmering a stiffer than usual neck feather up the hook shank, with a bigger diameter than the hook gape – e.g. a bristly wooly bugger. Regards John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

Ernie, I’ve never seen a trout fly with a weed guard –

Dragon Fly nymph patterns sometimes have weed guards fashioned from hanks of Moose hair – the nymphs are fished down and dirty in the weeds and the hair keeps the hook point free of weed.

Response:

Ernie, I know you said bass flies – I just don’t think bass fly style weed guards will work on trout flies. The only "weed guard" I’ve ever used on trout flies has been with hackle, by palmering a stiffer than usual neck feather up the hook shank, with a bigger diameter than the hook gape – e.g. a bristly wooly bugger. Regards John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

In the UK our standard set up for lake/loch/lough fishing would have the flies maybe 5 or 6 feet apart, with the ‘point ‘ fly tied to the point, and dropper flies tied to a dropper maybe 6- 8 inches long tied to the main leader  using a blood knot or similar so that they stand out at right angles to the main leader.  Maybe you experience foulhooking because your dry/ nymph combo is only inches apart- what we in the UK call a dropper and you do are slightly different animals.When I talk of a dropper I mean the piece of line 6-8 inches long coming off the main leader.I have not experienced any significant increase of foul hooking using ‘our’ system. What I did experience,which was unusual, on an Irish stream this summer was lassooing a brown- it rose to a small dry spider style dry. I struck, and thought I had hooked a whopper.When I got it in, I found the tippet had gone 360 degrees round the belly of a small  fish, and the fly had caught up in  the tippet. I had dragged the fish side ways through the water!  regards,  Gillaroo.

Response:

Question:

I took up fly fishing a couple of years ago. However, all of my fishing to date has been with friends out of state (Maine, Pennsylvania, upstate New York). I live in Southern New Jersey and would like to find some decent fishing closer to home. I live in Tabernacle. Nearby towns – Medford, Mt. Laurel, Cherry Hill. Can anyone help? Many Thanks!

Response:

Well, it’s been a long time since I lived in So Jersey, But I remember catching some shad (during the run) SE of Millville a few miles.  Can’t remember the river but it was near a sand plant…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took up fly fishing a couple of years ago. However, all of my fishing to date has been with friends out of state (Maine, Pennsylvania, upstate New York). I live in Southern New Jersey and would like to find some decent fishing closer to home. I live in Tabernacle. Nearby towns – Medford, Mt. Laurel, Cherry Hill. Can anyone help? Many Thanks!

Response:

I took up fly fishing a couple of years ago. However, all of my fishing to date has been with friends out of state (Maine, Pennsylvania, upstate New York). I live in Southern New Jersey and would like to find some decent fishing closer to home. I live in Tabernacle. Nearby towns – Medford, Mt. Laurel, Cherry Hill. Can anyone help? Many Thanks!

Your best bet is head to the salt water.  Pick up Lou Tabory’s "Inshore Fly Fishing", then drive over to LBI.  If it’s trout you’re after, you’ll need to head north.  Closest public water is the South Branch of the Raritan at the Ken Lockwood Gorge from High Bridge towards Califon. You might want to stop at Oliver’s Orvis in Clinton and ask Kevin what’s catching fish and where.  He can direct you to other northern rivers. Musconet

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took up fly fishing a couple of years ago. However, all of my fishing to date has been with friends out of state (Maine, Pennsylvania, upstate New York). I live in Southern New Jersey and would like to find some decent fishing closer to home. I live in Tabernacle. Nearby towns – Medford, Mt. Laurel, Cherry Hill. Can anyone help? Many Thanks! Your best bet is head to the salt water.  Pick up Lou Tabory’s "Inshore Fly Fishing", then drive over to LBI.  If it’s trout you’re after, you’ll need to head north.  Closest public water is the South Branch of the Raritan at the Ken Lockwood Gorge from High Bridge towards Califon. You might want to stop at Oliver’s Orvis in Clinton and ask Kevin what’s catching fish and where.  He can direct you to other northern rivers. Musconet

What about the Musconetcong? –Rich

Response:

Question:

I have done only a little flyfishing.  I just bought a cheapo Berkley flyfishing kit with a 7 1/2 foot rod which came with #6 double taper line.  When I use it, the line slams into the water like a log.  I remember when I was younger, I tried out my Dad’s flyrod which was made of bamboo and used level line.  I could make it lay down on the water real nice.   What is my biggest problem, the rod or the line.  If I switch to a better or different line will that help.  I normally fish on small waters like the Owens River above Bishop, CA. Mark Rubin — This is a test of the signature file.  Had this been a real sigature file, it would contain cute graphics and a catchy phrase.  This is only a test…

Response:

I have done only a little flyfishing.  I just bought a cheapo Berkley flyfishing kit with a 7 1/2 foot rod which came with #6 double taper line.  When I use it, the line slams into the water like a log.

Hi Mark-     You might try casting the line toward the tree line rather than the horizon or worse yet, the water. When the line straightens out, follow the line with your rod tip as the line settles to the water. This should soften the landing. Also you might try some roll casts that direct the fly into the air rather than attempting to nail it to the water ar trying for max distance.   Despite what the pictures in the magazines show, casting is not nearly as important your ability to mend and control line once it’s on the water.Try not casting at all! Spend some time simply drifting your fly downstream and steer it into fishy spots by practicing your mends. You will quickly find that a longer rod is easier to mend with because it keeps you farther from the fish and it picks up more line from the water.    Good luck and soft landings-Ralph

Response:

Also, as a new fly fisherperson, I’ve found that the cast comes off better when it is done "almost willfully slowly." And it is even better yet when I’m not thinking about it. My suggestion would be to slow down a lot and see what happens. Also start with shorter casts and work up. My limited experience has shown that most fishing on streams is done in the 15 to 30 foot range . . . sometimes closer. My friend "Doc" keeps telling me "less line" and it is beginning to sink in. Really the best deal would be to spend even 15 minutes with a competent flyfisher . . . who can tell you what is going wrong. Your casting can improve a million percent in even that short amount of time. Bob Vorel

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First of all if you havent ever been to VanCampens I strongly suggest that you check it out because the Trout there are BIG and beutiful…..(Browns,Rainbows,Brook…..and its in the Del. Water.Gap) Anway I was wondering….I am a novice Fly-Fisherman and I want to know what Flies I should be using between hatches on this and other coldwater streams….and what will attract them even when they are not really that hungry….. Any Info you can give me on Flies that usually hatch up there or Flies that work would be greatly appreciated….. Thanks Matt,

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I have done only a little flyfishing.  I just bought a cheapo Berkley   flyfishing kit with a 7 1/2 foot rod which came with #6 double taper line.    When I use it, the line slams into the water like a log.  Hi Mark- <snip      Despite what the pictures in the magazines show, casting is not nearly  as important your ability to mend and control line once it’s on the  water.Try not casting at all! Spend some time simply drifting your fly  downstream and steer it into fishy spots by practicing your mends.     Good luck and soft landings-Ralph

Good advice indeed, although if I may add a small contribution … Being more a lake angler that the faster water, the Lake Trout of NZ would be long gone, unless they were deep water dwellers, with a noisy line entry such as Mark is describing. I have spent many many hours perfecting my casting (as well as retrieving .. <grin) whilst not actually having been anywhere near the water. I found it invaluable to practice on my own (without annoying fellow anglers, or scaring the fish) in the back yard or local park and to learn to *air* cast ( rather than rip) blind in order to become not only accurate, but to lay out a effecient, long and delicate roll when stalking the elusive NZ Rainbow. Casting practice is also invaluable when sandwiched on both sides by equally feverish anglers, or faced with an annoying and pesky breeze blowing over your right shoulder. Not for the faint hearted, nor inexperienced .. <grin Regards .. Tim.D Wellington, New Zealand.

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Too muchfalse casting is a detrriment to accurcacy. I roll the line foward,pick it up and cast it out with one or at the most two false casts. I slight lifting motion to get the line off the water helps too. Practice or get Joan Wulff’s video or both will help. Call my radio show any Sat. morning from 6-7am eastern time toll free at 1-800-298-8255 and tell us how you are doing. Tight lines, The Fishin’ Zone Steve Sloan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, as a new fly fisherperson, I’ve found that the cast comes off better  when it is done "almost willfully slowly." And it is even better yet when  I’m not thinking about it. My suggestion would be to slow down a lot and  see what happens. Also start with shorter casts and work up. My limited  experience has shown that most fishing on streams is done in the 15 to 30  foot range . . . sometimes closer. My friend "Doc" keeps telling me "less  line" and it is beginning to sink in. Really the best deal would be to spend even 15 minutes with a competent  flyfisher . . . who can tell you what is going wrong. Your casting can  improve a million percent in even that short amount of time. Bob Vorel

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Question:

:      Now, in the same manner, I’d like to try fly fishing. :      Unfortunately, it doesn’s seme possible to fly fish "casually". :      Is there a "hacker" version of fly fishing? IMHO, No, there really isn’t a ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at is the cost of entry.

I would dissagree. When I started flyfishing, my equiptment consisted of a Diawa "econo" flyrod ($20), an $18 flyreel, a level nordmark floating flyline (daddy’s old line), and a film canister of Tom Thumbs and Spratleys (made by my music teacher). It is only as expensive as you want it to be, getting Orvis beginners kits and other "matched systems". I gave my old rod, reel and line to another child, and he has learned well enough to outfish many of the tourists with their snazzy & expensive gear! If you just want to drag a spratley behind your kayak, this is all you really need. I think the amount of information required to reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.

The key word here is "optimum".  If you are just gonna putter, don’t buy the best first off! So, back to my opinion, it’s like getting shot with .44.  It may miss you, but if it touches you, even your little finger, it will take a large bite of your being.

Too True! If the bug hits you, be prepared to spend a lifetime aquiring the toys that one collecte in persuit of this hobby. . . I now have no less than 7 flyrods! Kryten// — @         0r

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: IMHO, No, there really isn’t a : ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this : to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at : is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to           ^^^^ Oops!  Poor choice of word.  What I was trying to emphasize here is the ‘knowledge’ component of the sport.  Granted, I’m slow.  So, it took me longer than two hours on my front lawn to learn to cast a fly rod.  Then I had to learn leader selection, fly selection, knots, presentation techniques, etc.  It wasn’t the kind of time and effort investment I would call ‘casual’. : reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the : sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.  Folks pursue : the sport because of the personal challenge involved.  There are lots : of easier ways to catch fish–even with a fly.     : I disagree with no possible ‘casual’ flyfishing for the beginner.  I : own a custom rod that I bought thru the bargain ads for $100 : (including tackle) that turned out to be worth $300+.  Lucky move.     Lucky, indeed.  I’ve been in the sport for 25 years and own one custom-built 5 wt. that I spent $80 on components for and one $20 5 wt. that I picked up for my son to learn on.  I seem to spend all my money on raising three kids! :^) : That’s the rod I used to learn to cast on my front lawn.  Took about 2 : hours to get the casting down right (using a $10 book).  Then I took         You quick learners make me feel so stupid.  How do you do it? : my old canoe, went to a local lake and flyfished for bass and ‘gills. : CASUALLY! : I recently purchased a new fly rod (4/5# w/reel, line, backing, etc) : for a whopping $30!  It was a cheap package deal at the local sporting : goods store.  Is it a top of the line, high quality rod?  No, : obviously.  But it won’t bother me if it breaks in the back of my : truck and I can keep it ready for a few casts at lunch time!  Again, : casually. : I am no pro but I know what I like and enjoy it.  Yes, you can be a : ‘casual’ flyfisherman (or woman for that matter) without dumping a lot : of money.  Start out at your own pace and have fun!         Who’s talking about money?  We’re talkin investment here, and I consider my time and effort part of the investment–a pleasant part that I chose to invest.  This lad is asking about getting into the sport without investing himself.  My answer stands. : BA : P.S: Charley, you do sound like an elitist…         Well, it is the only thing in my life that I do well.  So, I like to crow about it once in awhile.  Don’t confuse trolling a fly on the end of a flyrod from a kayak with FLYFISHING.  That’s baitfishing with the wrong equipment! Charley

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Don’t confuse trolling a fly on the end of a flyrod from a kayak with FLYFISHING.  That’s baitfishing with the wrong equipment!

Ah, the subtlety of distinctions.  Trolling, er, I mean "drifting" a bobber, er, I mean "strike indicator" from a dory, er, I mean drift boat, now that’s fly fishing.  Don’t confuse this with trolling a fly on the end of a flyrod from a kayak. Got it straight? — -Wayne Trzyna

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: Don’t confuse trolling a fly : on the end of a flyrod from a kayak with FLYFISHING.  That’s baitfishing : with the wrong equipment! : Ah, the subtlety of distinctions.  Trolling, er, I mean "drifting" a : bobber, er, I mean "strike indicator" from a dory, er, I mean drift boat, : now that’s fly fishing.  Don’t confuse this with trolling a fly on the : end of a flyrod from a kayak. : Got it straight? OUCH!  Got me!  I knew as I typed that I was setting myself up.  But, I just couldn’t see the bullet. Thanks, Wayne, I needed that. : -Wayne Trzyna Charley

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I sincerely hope flyfishing is casual; if it is not casual then it must be called a job. Haven’t I seen a bumber sticker reading something like ‘Work is for people who don’t know how to fish?’ Ditto on Curtis Creek Manifesto, absolutely the best brief beginners survey of the sport. And still in print. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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 (trimmed) Being as I catch and release this will help me to have more fun with the time I have. How can you go wrong with that?

Bob: Obviously you haven’t been reading Tim Walker’s latest ravings. A cheap rod and a plan to practice C&R? If Tim doesn’t pounce on you here, he’ll undoubtedly strike when you least expect it; probably when you are going into a fish and chip place to turn in a coupon for a free reel. I’m afraid by Tim’s standards (whatever they are) you’ve already gone wrong. Terribly wrong. John

Response:

: IMHO, No, there really isn’t a : ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this : to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at : is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to : reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the : sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.  Folks pursue : the sport because of the personal challenge involved.  There are lots : of easier ways to catch fish–even with a fly.     : I disagree with no possible ‘casual’ flyfishing for the beginner.  I : own a custom rod that I bought thru the bargain ads for $100 : (including tackle) that turned out to be worth $300+.  Lucky move. : That’s the rod I used to learn to cast on my front lawn.  Took about 2 : hours to get the casting down right (using a $10 book).  Then I took : my old canoe, went to a local lake and flyfished for bass and ‘gills. : CASUALLY! : I recently purchased a new fly rod (4/5# w/reel, line, backing, etc) : for a whopping $30!  It was a cheap package deal at the local sporting : goods store.  Is it a top of the line, high quality rod?  No, : obviously.  But it won’t bother me if it breaks in the back of my : truck and I can keep it ready for a few casts at lunch time!  Again, : casually. : I am no pro but I know what I like and enjoy it.  Yes, you can be a : ‘casual’ flyfisherman (or woman for that matter) without dumping a lot : of money.  Start out at your own pace and have fun! : BA : P.S: Charley, you do sound like an elitist… Well without getting into name calling I think I can see both points here. It seems flyfishing is not for everyone because of the work it takes to be *serious* about it. On the other hand I see myself as the "casual" fisherman that wants to try something new so I also went out and got one of them $30.00 setups and my fiance went out and got me a set of 6 flies and a case for them for the hell of it. I guess if you have the time and money anything can become expensive but for a lot of us it may be a few hours to ourselves doing what we like to do. I for one look foward to learning something new when the other line is just sitting there waiting. I know I’ll lose a few nice fish this way but in the long run I should catch more. Being as I catch and release this will help me to have more fun with the time I have. How can you go wrong with that?

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: IMHO, No, there really isn’t a : ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this : to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at : is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to

Geeze, Bob.  You must have gone back months to get this.  It’s been dead and gone for awhile.  FYI, I did follow this up with a disclaimer that it was unfortunate that I used the term ‘cost of entry’.  I was referring to the learning curve, not the monetary hurdles.  Nonetheless, I was sort of glad to see this particular piece age off the net! :^( Well without getting into name calling I think I can see both points here.

Me, too! Charley

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IMHO, No, there really isn’t a ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this    [...] I disagree with no possible ‘casual’ flyfishing for the beginner.  I    [...] I am no pro but I know what I like and enjoy it.  Yes, you can be a ‘casual’ flyfisherman (or woman for that matter) without dumping a lot of money.  Start out at your own pace and have fun! BA

  Thanks for the encouragement! As I said in another post, I’ve spent $100 so far, including the rod I also use for casting and trolling. Since I ride a motorbike to most of my fishing spots, I need one rod that does it all, and I found the fly-rod (a "Mitchell" I bought at Canadian Tire for $30) is quite nice for casting (it’s a little thin for trolling, but I caught a few trout trolling with it anyway!).    Anyway, I’m off to see if any fish like my new flies! —    "I’m doing everything I can, and stop calling me Shirley!"  

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    (I’ve looked at various books on the subject, but they all seem far

too advanced for me.) Get a copy of Curtis Creek Manifesto.  It’s a classic, done in a sort of a cartoon style, and teahces you what you need to know to fish at the level you describe.  It’s only 48 pages.  Costs 5.95 and I’m pretty sure it’s still in print.

Response:

    (I’ve looked at various books on the subject, but they all seem far too advanced for me.) Get a copy of Curtis Creek Manifesto.  It’s a classic, done in a sort of a cartoon style, and teahces you what you need to know to fish at the level you describe.  It’s only 48 pages.  Costs 5.95 and I’m pretty sure it’s still in print.

I couldn’t agree more.  I saw this book in the store and thought it had some very good beginner information presented in an extremely easy to understand manner. I bought a copy of it just so I have some easy to understand literature to give to prospective "recruits" when they ask me about fly-fishing. —     \      \   \    \  \   ^  Timothy D. Bouvia             ^    \      \    \   \\\    ^  HRB Systems, Inc., Dept. 112  ^     \      \    \   \   \    ^  State College, Pa. 16804-0060 ^

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Fly fishing for Dummies? Hmm…I wouldn’t even know what fly to use

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:      I’ve been "casually" fishing just about all my life ( eg. I drag a line : behind my kayak so that I don’t look like I’m just goofing off…). I’ve : caught a few fish, but I’m certainly not fanatic about it. I don’t even know : what weight the line is on my reel ( I think it’s 6 lb for trout, 25 lb for : salmon.) :      Now, in the same manner, I’d like to try fly fishing. :      Unfortunately, it doesn’s seme possible to fly fish "casually". :      Is there a "hacker" version of fly fishing? IMHO, No, there really isn’t a ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.  Folks pursue the sport because of the personal challenge involved.  There are lots of easier ways to catch fish–even with a fly.     So, back to my opinion, it’s like getting shot with .44.  It may miss you, but if it touches you, even your little finger, it will take a large bite of your being. Charley

Response:

IMHO, No, there really isn’t a ‘casual’ level of flyfishing FOR THE BEGINNER.  Now, I don’t want this to come off as ‘elitist’.  That’s not the point.  What I’m getting at is the cost of entry.  I think the amount of information required to reach a level of personal mastery leading to optimum enjoyment of the sport is, in itself, a barrier to ‘casual’ involvement.  Folks pursue the sport because of the personal challenge involved.  There are lots of easier ways to catch fish–even with a fly.    

I disagree with no possible ‘casual’ flyfishing for the beginner.  I own a custom rod that I bought thru the bargain ads for $100 (including tackle) that turned out to be worth $300+.  Lucky move. That’s the rod I used to learn to cast on my front lawn.  Took about 2 hours to get the casting down right (using a $10 book).  Then I took my old canoe, went to a local lake and flyfished for bass and ‘gills. CASUALLY! I recently purchased a new fly rod (4/5# w/reel, line, backing, etc) for a whopping $30!  It was a cheap package deal at the local sporting goods store.  Is it a top of the line, high quality rod?  No, obviously.  But it won’t bother me if it breaks in the back of my truck and I can keep it ready for a few casts at lunch time!  Again, casually. I am no pro but I know what I like and enjoy it.  Yes, you can be a ‘casual’ flyfisherman (or woman for that matter) without dumping a lot of money.  Start out at your own pace and have fun! BA P.S: Charley, you do sound like an elitist…

Response:

Question:

Would like to know some effective patterns for Northern Pike.  Will be fishing Gods Lake in Manatoba Canada in mid August.

Response:

There is an excellent book on the subject that also discusses multiple patterns.  "PIKE on the FLY" by Barry Reynolds and John Berryman.  If your local fly shop doesn’t carry it Wilderness Adventures Sporting Books does carry them at $16.00.  1-800-925-3339 or P.O. Box 1410, Bozeman, M.T. 59771, that is where I got Mine.  My favorite pattern is Bunny Bug a 3/0 Mustad #34007 with a 25-pound hard mono weed guard, Black thread, tail-4" long black rabbit strip topped with a few strands of black Krystal Flash, butt-White or Yellow marabou, body-Black rabbit strip 6" long palmered to 1/4 " of the eye.  Decievers in Red/White or Black/White are also great.  I use Orvis wire leaders on the above.   The book shop above also has an  great video by Berry Reynolds that makes you want to catch a plane up to Northern Sask!  Good Luck

Response:

Jason Chartrand here, fly-fishing for pike is the BEST (I wish to say only, but it isn’t) way to go. Some really fun flies to try are anything that floats (fur mice, poppers, etc . . . ).  Actually seeing the hit is really exciting.  But honestly, I don’t get much success this way. Nearly any concoction that you can dream up could work, but my favorite is tied like this:         1/0 (2/0) short shank salt water hook         gold tinsel ribbing, or silver         Krystal flash: yellow, green, orange, mixed together, tied in at the         head in buck tail fashion.         Heavy black thread This sounds too simple, but it works great!!  

Response:

: Would like to know some effective patterns for Northern Pike.  

Try a RoadKill Streamer!  Thread a regular-length-hook  (of suitable size) several times through the rear end of a  4" – 8" strip of fox or rabbit fur. Then tie on a 20lb test  shock tippet, to the eye of the hook. Make an overhand knot  (with the shock tippet) around the front end of the fur,  and then make a perfection loop in the shock tippet. Put split  shot on the tippet, at the front end of the fly. That’s it,  although you can knot some Flashabou or whatever in the  overhand knot, as you make it. Other variations include  a second hook at the front, which allows lashing the  front end of the fur (with fly tying thread) to the front hook.  Smaller versions of this fly make good brown trout flies  during fall spawning. Friends of mine have used RoadKills with  good success for Pike and Smallmouth bass in Quebec.     —

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