Question:

Bob, If either of you go, or any Roffian for that matter, please try to find these guys and let me know: Acheson Technologies, LLC 6337 South Jamaica court Englewood, CO 80111 (888) 302-0067 They allegedly manufacture the RodRack, which transports fully assembled fly rods on the exterior of vehicles. Rod locks inside unit, unit locks to vehicle. El Paso Bob with another fly fishing specific question – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Is the Denver FF show coming up on Jan. 6 & 7th a worthwhile event? Any Roffers going?  Normally, I wouldn’t drive that far but I have a daughter (and sis-in law) in Denver and there’s always shopping for the wife.  (Might have to drop by Charlie’s and pick up some more books.) Snoop

Response:

Thanks for the heads-up on this show. Where is it being held? I haven’t seen any ads for it.

Response:

There is a web site with a complete list of things going on at www.flyfishingshow.com Laurence

Response:

  Is the Denver FF show coming up on Jan. 6 & 7th a worthwhile event? Any Roffers going?  Normally, I wouldn’t drive that far but I have a daughter (and sis-in law) in Denver and there’s always shopping for the wife.  (Might have to drop by Charlie’s and pick up some more books.) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I picked up a brochure, and it looks like it will be a pretty good show. This is the first year for a show of this format in Denver, but it looks pretty good, with world renowned tyers, book signings, and all sorts of demos. I’ll even put you up for a night or two, if you’re so inclined.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Is the Denver FF show coming up on Jan. 6 & 7th a worthwhile event? Any Roffers going?  Normally, I wouldn’t drive that far but I have a daughter (and sis-in law) in Denver and there’s always shopping for the wife.  (Might have to drop by Charlie’s and pick up some more books.) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I picked up a brochure, and it looks like it will be a pretty good show. This is the first year for a show of this format in Denver, but it looks pretty good, with world renowned tyers, book signings, and all sorts of demos. I’ll even put you up for a night or two, if you’re so inclined.

Charlie,   Thanks for your kind offer.  Got beer????   I’m heading to the Bighorn tomorrow for a couple of days.  I’ll see what kind of shape I’m in when I return & decide whether or not to make the trip.  I would like to visit you and Pat for one day if I come down.  I suppose I should visit my daughter too, but she doesn’t fish:)   Are you going to the show? Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

  Is the Denver FF show coming up on Jan. 6 & 7th a worthwhile event? Any Roffers going?  Normally, I wouldn’t drive that far but I have a daughter (and sis-in law) in Denver and there’s always shopping for the wife.  (Might have to drop by Charlie’s and pick up some more books.) Snoop

Charlie Framinski show is on the 6th & 7th of January.  Chuck says the turn out will be at least 4 – 5,000 people, which is a lot of fly fishermen.  Doug Swisher and I will be attending.  I will have a rather straight forward, plain booth with some of our general products along with bamboo fly rods anyone is welcome to inspect and see for themselves what is is we are doing today. Shopping in general at the Mart is a rather complete place from what I understand.  I think the show is at the intersection of I-25 & I-70, which is the MouseTrap area of Denver.  There is a Quality Inn on the location, I understand.  Its been a while since I’ve been in that area but I did live in Colorado for many years.   I will be landing at Jefferson County Airport and will just rent a car. This show is 100% FLY FISHING, so the turn out won’t be in the hundreds of thousands as they are with all purpose sports shows Snoop.  Yet, I’m going to attend and may be in Denver on or before Friday because I think the booths set up on Friday, is my guess.  I just got the packet but haven’t had time to read it yet. I think it may well be your while to attend, if only to try some fly casting and getting some bargains on all sorts of fly fishing stuff. These shows are usually good places to find fly tying materials and for getting good ideas. Hope to see you there.  Drop by and say hello.  Hope this helps others who are thinking of attending Chucks All Fly Fishing Sports Show in Denver this coming weekend. — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend? Wayne

Response:

I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend?

      Ain’t gonna "try" to attend, I will absolutely be there. Last years’ show was the first time they’ve done the all-flyfishing format, and it was a great cure for cabin fever. This year’s show promises to be even better.       How shall we try to spot each other? Pink bridesmaid’s hats?

Response:

i am planning on dropping by…haven’t been before… thought i might check it out… richard / colorado

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend? Wayne

Response:

      How shall we try to spot each other? Pink bridesmaid’s hats?

I’ll be coming from Kansas, look for the Ruby Slippers As I said, it is a REMOTE possibility, due to driving the daughter to the Wichita airport on Friday and some other such stuff. If it looks like I can make it, I’ll send you an email late Friday night or early Sat morning before I leave with my pager and cell number so we can meet up. That is, if you were going to be there in the afternoon. Wayne

Response:

"Wayne Knight" As I said, it is a REMOTE possibility, due to driving the daughter to the Wichita airport on Friday and some other such stuff. If it looks like I can make it, I’ll send you an email late Friday night or early Sat morning before I leave with my pager and cell number so we can meet up. That is, if you were going to be there in the afternoon.

     Okee doke. Don’t be offended if I don’t answer anything prior to Fri evening, we’re heading over to Aspen in a couple of hours and won’t be back until late Fri.

Response:

I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend?

I’ll meet you in the Cathy Beck autograph line at noon. — The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Wayne Knight: I understand the Denver Fly Fishing Show is next weekend. There is a remote possibility I will drive over from Kansas. Any of the Colorado poster’s going to try and attend?

Charlie Wilson:       How shall we try to spot each other? Pink bridesmaid’s hats?

I should be easy to find. I’ll be wearing a flannel shirt and a ball cap. (Seriously though, it shouldn’t be too hard to come up with something more or less unique. Bolo ties would do the trick. After all, it’s either that or else those giant foam rubber cowboy hats.) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Question:

I woke up this morning and looked out the window to what looked to be a very nice Turkey Day.  There was no wind, partly cloudy skies and it felt somewhat warm out.  I was really looking forward to a nice day on the river and thought I would lounge about the house for an hour or two before heading out.  I have found in the past that fishing early in the morning during this time of year is pretty much a waste.  The water is cold and the fish don’t seem to warm up until around 11 or 12 so I watched a little TV and farted around the house for a bit. Shortly after noon I gathered up my gear and proceeded to head down to the Gallatin.  The weather was very nice and I was already feeling warm in my fleece bibs, union suit, and sweats.  I stopped by the store and grabbed a couple of "Road Masters" (24 oz cans of beer) to stuff in the back of my vest along with a bag of chips and some summer sausage just in case I got the munchies while I was out.  Around 1 PM I arrived at the Gallatin and began to prepare myself for a day of fishing.  There was just a slight breeze and the sun darted in and out behind the clouds that were rolling in.  Off in the distance I could see the mountains and the scattered snow showers that were painting the top of the mountains white through the hazy veils of falling snow.  It is Thanksgiving Day and I was home. At first I was a bit unsure of what to tie on.  It has been awhile since I have had the pleasure to fish due to the commitments of the real world, but I ventured down to the river and started to examine what was going on.  There were a few midges flying around but absolutely no fish rising to them.  I decided on big and deep and strung up my rod and proceeded to make my way to the lifeblood of my soul.  As I stepped into the water and made my way up to my spots, I began to think about how thankful I am. I proceeded to fish and things were indeed slow.  There were absolutely no fish rising and I had not even tempted one fish during my first hour on the water.  I moved up to the next stretch which is another one of my favorite spots and changed flies.  No luck again and so I changed the dropper and missed one fish.  I moved up to the log jam area and ended up losing the dropper in the logs so I moved to the side channel and hit my favorite hole there.  As I sat there tying on new flies, I once again began to think about the things that I am thankful for this year.  As I finished tying on the flies, I pushed these thoughts out of my mind as I cast my flies into the current on the far side of the hole.  This hole is on a bend and is very deep.  There used to be a side channel that came in and made this a fork, but beavers have long since dammed up the channel that dumps in to part of the T which now makes this pool shaped like an upside down L.  I had tied on a black rubber legged stonefly nymph with an orange egg pattern dropper.  I missed one fish and ended up breaking the entire rig off on the remnants of the beaver dam. I sat on the bank and the sun darted behind the clouds and what was a breeze turned into a slight wind which was gaining in strength.  Snow began to fall and the steady hiss of the wind of the wind began to blow through the tall grass.  I kept eying the pool as the wind whispered "thhhhhhhhhherrrrrrre" in my ear.  I knew exactly what I had to do and tied on the new stonefly nymph and egg pattern and cast out into the far seam again.  I could feel the flies ticking the bottom and then there was the thump-thump of a fish taking one of the flies.  I set the hook and felt the solid resistance of a fish. This pool normally holds browns, but I saw the silver flash of a rainbow and played the fish on the latest addition to my fly rod arsenal.  Yes indeed!  The "Montana Trout Bum" came alive and transmitted ever move of the rainbow in a way that is hard to describe.  The rod seemed alive in my hands and transmitted feelings which seem to be lost in graphite rods.  I landed a fat 16" rainbow, bonked it on the head and put it on my stringer.  After thanking the fish, thanking whatever God(s) that may have been involved and just being thankful to be alive I sat on the bank and began to contemplate things.  I was no longer in a rush to fish so I took out one of the "Road Masters" from my vest, dug out the summer sausage and cut off a chunk to snack on. It is hard to put in words, but a relaxing calm came over me as I took stock of the last year.  I settled in for a deep period of introspect and began to list all the things that I am thankful for.  I am thankful to have my family and especially the most precious thing in my life, my daughter.  I am also thankful for the good friends that I have made, even those that can be a pain in the ass to deal with at times,  I am thankful to own a rod that was made by a friend which holds something very special that is hard to explain.  Zimbo mentioned such a feeling and I immediately understood what he was talking about when I read it, but I FELT it as I sat there on the bank.  I am thankful to the men and women in our armed forces, my brothers and sisters in arms, who are overseas defending our country and our way of life.  Most importantly I am thankful just to be alive and able to experience the beauty of the land I live in and a sport which connects me to the beauty every time I go out fishing.  Of all the shitty things that have happened to me this year, I could not remember many of them and the ones I did remember seemed very unimportant and paled in comparison to the all of the good that I often overlook.  I began to get a little cold as the wind started to penetrate the layers of clothing I was wearing and decided to finally get up and move on. I proceeded to fish another big pool with a strong current on the far side and a huge tail-out that forks into two channels.  The sun once again broke through the clouds and cast rays that shone from the heavens as beams of gold.  I quickly ripped out of my camera and snapped a couple of pictures and once again began fishing.  I ended up landing a 17" rainbow and proceeded to bonk that one over the head and cleaning it there too.  I was all set now that I had my Thanksgiving Day dinner.  I once again took up a position on the bank and just took in the scene. The sound of the running water never seems to fail in touching my soul and soothing my psyche.  As the sun began to drop below the horizon, I decided to call it a day after a few more casts and head home. I thought about things on the way home and am very happy with my life. The ups and downs will continue, but fishing has always been a constant in my life and seems to smooth out the rough edges.  I want to thank you all for being part of the fishing experience that helps smooth out those rough edges and hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving. — Warren www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

I’d been thinking what a nice Thanksgiving I’d had, and then I read your story and it got even better. Many thanks, Chas

…great tr snipped…

Response:

Of all the shitty things that have happened to me this year, I could not remember many of them and the ones I did remember seemed very unimportant and paled in comparison to the all of the good that I often overlook.

Mmm hmm. There seems to be 2 sorts of people – those for whom the bad things ultimately seem less important than the good, and those for whom the opposite is true.  What kind of person you are and how you live has a lot to do with which sort you are….

Response:

I woke up this morning and looked out the window to what looked to be a very nice Turkey Day.  

thanks for the time away…. I had to work Willi

Response:

I thought about things on the way home and am very happy with my life. The ups and downs will continue, but fishing has always been a constant in my life and seems to smooth out the rough edges.  I want to thank you all for being part of the fishing experience that helps smooth out those rough edges and hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Here’s to you and yours, Warren.

Response:

wonderful day and you gave me a chance to share in a bit of it. Many more to come for you, I hope…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I woke up this morning and looked out the window to what looked to be a very nice Turkey Day.  There was no wind, partly cloudy skies and it felt somewhat warm out.  I was really looking forward to a nice day on the river and thought I would lounge about the house for an hour or two before heading out.  I have found in the past that fishing early in the morning during this time of year is pretty much a waste.  The water is cold and the fish don’t seem to warm up until around 11 or 12 so I watched a little TV and farted around the house for a bit. Shortly after noon I gathered up my gear and proceeded to head down to the Gallatin.  The weather was very nice and I was already feeling warm in my fleece bibs, union suit, and sweats.  I stopped by the store and grabbed a couple of "Road Masters" (24 oz cans of beer) to stuff in the back of my vest along with a bag of chips and some summer sausage just in case I got the munchies while I was out.  Around 1 PM I arrived at the Gallatin and began to prepare myself for a day of fishing.  There was just a slight breeze and the sun darted in and out behind the clouds that were rolling in.  Off in the distance I could see the mountains and the scattered snow showers that were painting the top of the mountains white through the hazy veils of falling snow.  It is Thanksgiving Day and I was home. At first I was a bit unsure of what to tie on.  It has been awhile since I have had the pleasure to fish due to the commitments of the real world, but I ventured down to the river and started to examine what was going on.  There were a few midges flying around but absolutely no fish rising to them.  I decided on big and deep and strung up my rod and proceeded to make my way to the lifeblood of my soul.  As I stepped into the water and made my way up to my spots, I began to think about how thankful I am. I proceeded to fish and things were indeed slow.  There were absolutely no fish rising and I had not even tempted one fish during my first hour on the water.  I moved up to the next stretch which is another one of my favorite spots and changed flies.  No luck again and so I changed the dropper and missed one fish.  I moved up to the log jam area and ended up losing the dropper in the logs so I moved to the side channel and hit my favorite hole there.  As I sat there tying on new flies, I once again began to think about the things that I am thankful for this year.  As I finished tying on the flies, I pushed these thoughts out of my mind as I cast my flies into the current on the far side of the hole.  This hole is on a bend and is very deep.  There used to be a side channel that came in and made this a fork, but beavers have long since dammed up the channel that dumps in to part of the T which now makes this pool shaped like an upside down L.  I had tied on a black rubber legged stonefly nymph with an orange egg pattern dropper.  I missed one fish and ended up breaking the entire rig off on the remnants of the beaver dam. I sat on the bank and the sun darted behind the clouds and what was a breeze turned into a slight wind which was gaining in strength.  Snow began to fall and the steady hiss of the wind of the wind began to blow through the tall grass.  I kept eying the pool as the wind whispered "thhhhhhhhhherrrrrrre" in my ear.  I knew exactly what I had to do and tied on the new stonefly nymph and egg pattern and cast out into the far seam again.  I could feel the flies ticking the bottom and then there was the thump-thump of a fish taking one of the flies.  I set the hook and felt the solid resistance of a fish. This pool normally holds browns, but I saw the silver flash of a rainbow and played the fish on the latest addition to my fly rod arsenal.  Yes indeed!  The "Montana Trout Bum" came alive and transmitted ever move of the rainbow in a way that is hard to describe.  The rod seemed alive in my hands and transmitted feelings which seem to be lost in graphite rods.  I landed a fat 16" rainbow, bonked it on the head and put it on my stringer.  After thanking the fish, thanking whatever God(s) that may have been involved and just being thankful to be alive I sat on the bank and began to contemplate things.  I was no longer in a rush to fish so I took out one of the "Road Masters" from my vest, dug out the summer sausage and cut off a chunk to snack on. It is hard to put in words, but a relaxing calm came over me as I took stock of the last year.  I settled in for a deep period of introspect and began to list all the things that I am thankful for.  I am thankful to have my family and especially the most precious thing in my life, my daughter.  I am also thankful for the good friends that I have made, even those that can be a pain in the ass to deal with at times,  I am thankful to own a rod that was made by a friend which holds something very special that is hard to explain.  Zimbo mentioned such a feeling and I immediately understood what he was talking about when I read it, but I FELT it as I sat there on the bank.  I am thankful to the men and women in our armed forces, my brothers and sisters in arms, who are overseas defending our country and our way of life.  Most importantly I am thankful just to be alive and able to experience the beauty of the land I live in and a sport which connects me to the beauty every time I go out fishing.  Of all the shitty things that have happened to me this year, I could not remember many of them and the ones I did remember seemed very unimportant and paled in comparison to the all of the good that I often overlook.  I began to get a little cold as the wind started to penetrate the layers of clothing I was wearing and decided to finally get up and move on. I proceeded to fish another big pool with a strong current on the far side and a huge tail-out that forks into two channels.  The sun once again broke through the clouds and cast rays that shone from the heavens as beams of gold.  I quickly ripped out of my camera and snapped a couple of pictures and once again began fishing.  I ended up landing a 17" rainbow and proceeded to bonk that one over the head and cleaning it there too.  I was all set now that I had my Thanksgiving Day dinner.  I once again took up a position on the bank and just took in the scene. The sound of the running water never seems to fail in touching my soul and soothing my psyche.  As the sun began to drop below the horizon, I decided to call it a day after a few more casts and head home. I thought about things on the way home and am very happy with my life. The ups and downs will continue, but fishing has always been a constant in my life and seems to smooth out the rough edges.  I want to thank you all for being part of the fishing experience that helps smooth out those rough edges and hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving. — Warren www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Question:

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Response:

Question:

This has been a real useful thread so far. How about lines for a minute?  I have a bass bug taper floating line but want to get a sink tip (I guess) for rivers like the James and Susquehanna.   What would y’all recommend for getting to the bottom?  Thanks for your ideas. Kurt

Response:

I’m primarily a smallmouth fisherman on the Potomac River. I generally use either a 6-weight or an 8-weight.  The Potomac, like the Delaware and Susquehanna, is a wide, often windy river. I spend much of my time throwing l-o-n-g casts (often all the way down to my backing) with the aid of a good double haul. I also generally use big Clouser minnows. I find the 8-weight is ideal for these conditions, especially when it’s windy. Having said that, however, I also enjoy using my 6-weight, especially on calmer days when fishing dries or small nymphs. On smaller rivers like the Shenandoah, I use my 6-weight almost exclusively. Scott Wilkinson

Response:

I’ll see all those fives and sixes and raise an eight– The susky is the least delicate smallie river I know of.  I regularly fish from the Chemung to the New and I have a different view.  I tie and fish flies that range from large to huge for smallmouth to muskies, and the susky is the largest zone.  My best fish have come on very large poppers (a whole 1/2" banger-foam cylinder’s worth and two large worm rattles) and the Butch Minnow, which is a lead-eyed hair-bodied diving. . .thing. . .we use around here a lot.  I fish big, and that seems to work well in the susquehanna.  So I fish an 8 mainly, and it’s not pretty all the time, I admit it. As for lines:  I like the Wulff triangle bug tapers, most weight-forward thing I can find; with my big guns (8wt PM10 and Scott STS) I will line-up a notch to the 9-wt.  I don’t recommend this; it has disqualified me from membership in most flyfishing clubs and gotten me frowns in the orvis shop, but so has tying and fishing flies that cast reasonably well on a baitcaster.  I do move a fair number of the higher echelon of fish in the James, New, Potomac, ‘Doah, and Susquehanna, and people also give me a wide berth on the river. In short:  there’s a "big" faction out here, too. Dave

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe Ellis writes: A seven weight for smallmouth?? Rod/line weight is determined more by the size fly you’re using and the wind resistance and delicacy of presentation desired, not the size fish you’re after. Exactly. I use a Pac Bay 9′ 6wt rod which really is closer to a 7wt and find it just right for tossing poppers, heavy nymphs, and big streamers for smallmouth. Especially on a big river like the Susquehanna where the occasional long cast is required. I feel like I’m working too hard when I try casting these flies with a 4/5wt rod, and that just leads to a sore arm after awhile. I find it much easier to fish all day with my 6/7wt than struggle with the 4/5. But I tend to use chunky flies for smallies, so that obviously affects my decisions. I guess I should have pointed that out in my original post. Bob Petti

Another alternative is to use the SA 6 weight headstart line on the 4/5.  I do.  The headstart line has such a short belly (23′) and tapers that it short casts very well without overloading the rod. Once you are well into the running line, the total weight of the line in the air is much less than a regular WF 6 F due to its short belly so you are never in danger of oveloading the rod.  With 50′ of line in the air, its total weight is probably no greater than a DT 4.  The short, chunky, heavy belly does a great job on big fat poppers and buggers, yet the 8 foot 4/5 won’t wear your arm out. My 4/5 Diawa is very sensitive to  overloading, a DT 5 F will kill it, but the WF 6 headstart causes no problems, It feels just like a WF 5 or a DT 4.  I regularly cast number 4 wooly buggers over 60′ with it. In fact it has proved to be the best line for the rod. Peter

Response:

This has been a real useful thread so far. How about lines for a minute?  I have a bass bug taper floating line but want to get a sink tip (I guess) for rivers like the James and Susquehanna.   What would y’all recommend for getting to the bottom?  Thanks for your ideas. Kurt

Kurt, I use SA sink tip lines in various sink rates, and another option (less expensive) is the loop to loop Orvis Mini Lead Heads (2 to a package, 12" & 24" length) and their "super instant sink tip system", which are also loop to loop 6′ sections. These are (1) fast sink tip and (2) super fast sink tip. These will set you back about 10 bucks, and do work in getting your bugger down. Of course, in order to use this system you have to go to the loop to loop method, which I happen to like for the ease it affords in changing leaders, and putting on/taking off the aforementioned Lead Heads. Obviously, the weight of the sink tip you use is determined by several factors, current, depth you’re trying to get to, and weight of your streamer (Clouser deep minnow vs unweighted wooley bugger, for example) Using the Orvis system first might give you a better idea of what weight sink tip line you might end up buying, and at considerably less cost. Good luck on your search. Regards, Frank Church Elkhart, IN

Response:

This has been a real useful thread so far. How about lines for a minute?   I have a bass bug taper floating line but want to get a sink tip (I guess) for rivers like the James and Susquehanna.   What would y’all recommend for getting to the bottom?  Thanks for your ideas.

The only sink tip I own is an old Cortland 444SL WF6F/S type IV with a 10 foot tip (man, that’s a mouthful). I really don’t like it much, as it just feels clunky. I’m sure that’s more a result of my casting (poor casting) than the line, but I’ve been thinking of getting a full sinking line or something like a Teeny. Whatever you do (or think), TEST THE LINE before you buy. Most shops should be able to put a line on a reel for you to test cast with. By all means, do so (with a leader and fly). With the premium price on lines these days, make sure you’re getting what you want before you bring it home. Bob Petti

Response:

Anyone out there own or use an Orvis DXR with Anti-Reverse?  I’d appreciate your feedback.  Thanks.

Response:

  I am looking for a fly rod for fishing smallmouth on the Susquehanna   river in Pennsylvania.  What size and weight rod should I be looking   at?  Any suggestions?  Also what should I expect to spend?   Any help is appreciated.  Tim,     I’d  have to agree with the last post recommending that 6 weight rod. That’s a good all rounder. Something like a 8′5" or 9′ rod for a bid river like the Susq. would fit the bill nicely. Your should be able to find a decent rod under $150. I have an Orvis Clearwater, and two Cortland rods, all were under $150, with reel, flyline and backing included. I fish for smallies on the Shenadoah and the Potomac Rivers. Keith in Waterford, VA

Response:

This has been a real useful thread so far. How about lines for a minute?  I have a bass bug taper floating line but want to get a sink tip (I guess) for rivers like the James and Susquehanna.   What would y’all recommend for getting to the bottom?  Thanks for your ideas. Kurt

Kurt,    I fish most with my floating line… My 10 ft sink tip gets very little use. Most of the time a weigthed nymph will get close enough to the bottom to get interest. Smallmouth are aggressive fish and in shallow streams ( most of  my fishing is in 6 ft or less of water)    they will chase the fly if they are interested). A split shot or two can be added if necessary . If you wade fish like I do, and cover several miles in a trip you learn to bring the laast but most  versatile equipment. The floating line also gives you the equipment to fish popper, etc.  Bottom line… I can get my fly near the bottom with my floating line but I can’t really fish near the top with my sink-tip.. And I don’t want to weight myself with excess equipment… that crap gets heavy after a while.    hope that helps !                                                                                             Jody

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As for lines:  I like the Wulff triangle bug tapers, most weight-forward thing I can find; with my big guns (8wt PM10 and Scott STS) I will line-up a notch to the 9-wt.  I don’t recommend this; it has disqualified me from membership in most flyfishing clubs and gotten me frowns in the orvis shop, but so has tying and fishing flies that cast reasonably well on a baitcaster.  I do move a fair number of the higher echelon of fish in the James, New, Potomac, ‘Doah, and Susquehanna, and people also give me a wide berth on the river. In short:  there’s a "big" faction out here, too.

Alright, Dave!  I second your posting. I’m a firm believer in casting flies the size of mice 70+ feet with big rods! What I find amusing is how, in flyfishing circles, there is a perception that the "saltwater guys" who go after bonefish and the like are the only ones who throw long casts with big rods in windy conditions. I might remind some saltwater types that when the wind comes roaring down a wide river valley like the Potomac or Susquehana, conditions can be every bit as harsh as rough day on the ocean! Scott Wilkinson Bethesda, MD

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I am looking for a fly rod for fishing smallmouth on the Susquehanna river in Pennsylvania.  What size and weight rod should I be looking at?  Any suggestions?  Also what should I expect to spend? Any help is appreciated.

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I am looking for a fly rod for fishing smallmouth on the Susquehanna river in Pennsylvania.  What size and weight rod should I be looking at?  Any suggestions?  Also what should I expect to spend? Any help is appreciated.

Tim, while I have fished *almost* exclusively for smallies for some years now, I am by no means an expert on what rod to use, but FWIW, I have used as my #1 smallie rod a 6 wt Sage and starting last year, a 6 wt 4 piece St Croix travel rod. I changed to the St Croix because the Sage is a little faster action than I’m comfortable with. There are those who will tell you to use a 7 wt….that’s fine too, because you will, every now and then, hook into a 5 pounder that’ll give you and your rod a workout. While I have never fished the Susky, I know it to be a fine smallmouth fishery. As to what to expect to spend, it depends on what brand…the the big name rods (Sage, Winston, Scott, etc.) will set you back 400+ bucks. Until you get some experience at this, I would suggest starting lower on the scale with either a St Croix or Redington. These are both in the 100 dollar area, and are fine rods, with a lifetime replacement guarantee. There are, of course, even cheaper rods, Wal-Mart/K-Mart specials, package deals aimed at getting you started, with everything included, reel, line, etc. These are definitely on the low end of the scale, quality-wise, and I question whether this is the best way to go. Spend a little more, get a good quality line, which to me is more important than the reel you use. If you need more info on the St Croix, contact me offline.  Good luck. Regards,

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Tim Engle writes: I am looking for a fly rod for fishing smallmouth on the Susquehanna river in Pennsylvania.  What size and weight rod should I be looking at?  Any suggestions?  Also what should I expect to spend? Any help is appreciated.

I’d suggest a 9′ 7wt. I wouldn’t think you’d need to spend much over a hundred bucks. The St. Croix Imperial or St. Croix Legend series would be just fine. Bob Petti

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Tim Engle writes: I am looking for a fly rod for fishing smallmouth on the Susquehanna river in Pennsylvania.  What size and weight rod should I be looking at?  Any suggestions?  Also what should I expect to spend? Any help is appreciated. I’d suggest a 9′ 7wt. I wouldn’t think you’d need to spend much over a hundred bucks. The St. Croix Imperial or St. Croix Legend series would be just fine.

 I’ll second the St.Croix reccommendation. They’re very good rods at a reasonable price. However… A seven weight for smallmouth?? Rod/line weight is determined more by the size fly you’re using and the wind resistance and delicacy of presentation desired, not the size fish you’re after. If you are planning on using 1/0 heavy Clouser Minnows or big Dahlberg rabbit strip divers, a 7wt MIGHT be becessary… but for all my stream fishing in the southern Ohio/northern Kentucky area a _4wt_ is plenty of rod. I only use my 8wt for largemouth/northern/muskie, when I’m throwing the BIG flies. I still use heavy enough leader that I can land and release a fish quickly, but it’s not necessary to use a telephone pole rod either! <GRIN — Joe Ellis     o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |  TesserAct Studios ()XDarwin(;        Now on the Web at      | Cincinnati, OH 45240 / /~LL~~LL~  http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 |New Dimensions In Filk! Unsolicited commercial E-mail will be proofread at $25 hr/2 hr min.

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Joe Ellis writes: A seven weight for smallmouth?? Rod/line weight is determined more by the size fly you’re using and the wind resistance and delicacy of presentation desired, not the size fish you’re after.

Exactly. I use a Pac Bay 9′ 6wt rod which really is closer to a 7wt and find it just right for tossing poppers, heavy nymphs, and big streamers for smallmouth. Especially on a big river like the Susquehanna where the occasional long cast is required. I feel like I’m working too hard when I try casting these flies with a 4/5wt rod, and that just leads to a sore arm after awhile. I find it much easier to fish all day with my 6/7wt than struggle with the 4/5. But I tend to use chunky flies for smallies, so that obviously affects my decisions. I guess I should have pointed that out in my original post. Bob Petti

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Joe Ellis writes: A seven weight for smallmouth??

I use a 9′ 6/7 graphite/boron rod.  When I’m out on a trout stream, I use a DT6-F.  For bass and panfish I use a WF7-F or a WF-6 with a sinking tip.  These combinations work quite well.  I’m accustomed to tossing weighted Woolly Buggers, weighted streamers, and hair bugs in sizes 4 to 10. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe Ellis writes: A seven weight for smallmouth?? Rod/line weight is determined more by the size fly you’re using and the wind resistance and delicacy of presentation desired, not the size fish you’re after. Exactly. I use a Pac Bay 9′ 6wt rod which really is closer to a 7wt and find it just right for tossing poppers, heavy nymphs, and big streamers for smallmouth. Especially on a big river like the Susquehanna where the occasional long cast is required. I feel like I’m working too hard when I try casting these flies with a 4/5wt rod, and that just leads to a sore arm after awhile. I find it much easier to fish all day with my 6/7wt than struggle with the 4/5. But I tend to use chunky flies for smallies, so that obviously affects my decisions. I guess I should have pointed that out in my original post. Bob Petti

Bob, when I first started flyrodding, it was the largemouth I was homing in on, and after checking out those neat hairbugs with all the feathers, rubber legs, etc. I thought that was what was required to get ‘em to hit on the surface. Some years of flailing those bulky bugs with an 8 wt produced bass, but at the end of the day, my arm/wrist was tired from throwing those danged puffballs. Have since learned from others(in this to get a hit. So I’ve stepped down to a 6 wt and now throw basically "clean" bugs, no tail feathers, and a cleaner, smaller profile. As a matter of fact, the Sneaky Pete is nothing more than a bullet shaped head with rubber legs and a tad of hackle, and it has been one of my most successful lures at getting smallmouth to hit. (with a vengence, I might add!) I still have the bulky hairbugs, but they reside in the tackle bag and almost never get used now. Regards,

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Frank Church writes: So I’ve stepped down to a 6 wt and now throw basically "clean" bugs, no tail feathers, and a cleaner, smaller profile.

Good point, Frank. My problem with lighter rods is casting heavy flies like big buggers and clousers. I find it much easier to control the cast with a heavier line. Most of my smallmouth fishing is done with weighted streamers and "bottom bouncers", so I guess that dictates my choice of tackle. However, I’ve been known to visit a few small creeks with my little 8 footer and cast tiny clousers and unweighted marabou streamers and bucktails for the "dinks". That can make for an enjoyable evening. Lord knows there are many many more 6 inch bass in the streams that 16 inchers. Targetting the small guys and selecting appropriate tackle and flies can be great fun. Bob Petti

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I am looking for a fly rod for fishing smallmouth on the Susquehanna river in Pennsylvania.  What size and weight rod should I be looking at?  Any suggestions?  Also what should I expect to spend? Any help is appreciated.

Tim,    I have been haunting the Delaware ( probably the best wadeable smallie stream in the US) for 3 decades armed with a flyrod ….. perhaps 1000 trips now if I had to count with 95 % of them wet wading.. I have three rods for this type of fishing…. an old fenwick graphite wt 5  ( for caddis fly hatches) and a wt 6  for pencil poppers and a wt 7 for heavier stuff like weighted crayfish imitations, wooly buggers, etc. I also use my wt 7 for the big river stripers encountered in the late spring , especially towards evening . This way I can fish for both species with one rod. I lived many years with a Fenwick HMG graphite (Wt 5 and wt 7) with the 9 ft wt 7 my standard outfit and have been and still am very happy with those rods ( my son still uses them) Granted they are old technology and slower than the very fast modern rods but since I learned to flycast with fiberglass their slower action suit me. I think they cost about $ 150 bucks now.. I currently fish at  a very fast scott but this is my shad rod ( something you may also want to consider) – a scott sts  9 ft wt 6 as well as  a Sage rpl+ 9.5 ft wt 7. I absolutely love my Sage  because it feesl like an extremely improved fenwick (action wise, which it had replaced) except it can effortlessly  cast 70 feet when necessary. If you had ~ $ 400 I would recommend the wt 6 or wt 7 sage RPL+ 9-9.5 ft long. I am currently entertaining the idea of a Sage RPL+ 9 ft wt 4 or lighter   for really light smallie fishing…                                                   Jody

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Question:

I’m going to find myself in Oregon toward the end of June and plan to take a few days for fishing.  The only Rivers I know of are the Deschutes and the Umpqua.  Can anyone advise me on them?  Are they worth fishing in June?  Any steelhead that time of year?  What flies should I bring?  What rod?  Thanks in advance.

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I’m going to find myself in Oregon toward the end of June and plan to take a few days for fishing.  The only Rivers I know of are the Deschutes and the Umpqua.  Can anyone advise me on them?  Are they worth fishing in June?  Any steelhead that time of year?  What flies should I bring?  What rod?  Thanks in advance.

Fly fishing on The Deschutes is excellent in June for "Redsides" (Rainbows). The Salmon Fly hatch should be well under way and the little Yellow Stoneflies will be right after. Your fly box should hold some Stimulators, Bucktail and/or Elk Hair Caddis, PMD’s and a few nymphs like Pheasant Tails, Hare’s Ear, etc. Steelhead start up the river in July and continue through the end of the year with Aug – Sept. usually best. If you are interested in a guided trip, I fish the lower 20 miles of The Deschutes via Jet Boat and I have a Drift Boat guide that fishes all segments. Feel free to contact me for more info.

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OOPS! Thought my signature would print. http://www.gorge.net/fishing/yfs/ Young’s Fishing Service, Inc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to find myself in Oregon toward the end of June and plan to take a few days for fishing.  The only Rivers I know of are the Deschutes and the Umpqua.  Can anyone advise me on them?  Are they worth fishing in June?  Any steelhead that time of year?  What flies should I bring?  What rod?  Thanks in advance.

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Question:

Please don’t feed the this monster of a thread.  Mr. Wieser is just waiting to pounce.  Check out his page, wage legal war with him via. e-mail, but please, we beg of you, don’t get him started on r.b.p… – Bill Herring – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.  

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Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline and than loudly proclaiming their rights to continue to navigate.

I must rise in protest! While it no doubt happens on rare occasion, I have NEVER seen a boater trash a shoreline ( I do not regard foot and butt prints as "trashing", and that’s about all we might leave behind)

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Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline

I don’t any who trash the shoreline, matter of fact most I know stay in their boats.  When I talked to a Ranger down on the Ark last year, he said boaters were pretty good, almost all the trash he picked up was fishing trash.  Since this issue came up, I’ve checked places like Sunshine in the Royal Gorge, the scouts and put-in at Gore, and other high traffic areas everytime I’m there, and there has never been anything in the way of trash. Matter of fact I challenge you or anyone to show me a place that is dominated by boaters, and is trashed out (at least in Colorado). –Chris

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While land owners may own the land and riparian rights to the waters bottom, they do not in fact, own the water itself and I’m almost positive that any river can be "navigated" through private property.  It would certainly be nice to have the owners permission to avoid any misunderstandings and asking in advance could only help relations between the land owner and boaters.  Regardless of the legal issue here, I think I’d be inclined to opt for not trespassing if that’s what the land owner wished.  I can imagine if there was a pristine river running across my land I’d not want a bunch of canoes and kayaks traversing it every day. Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline and than loudly proclaiming their rights to continue to navigate.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.   tdq

Yesssss!  And SET the hook!  Now, let the little bugger run till he tires and reel him in… Sorry, you are quite wrong.  Floating through private property in Colorado without the permission of the landowner is a criminal trespass.  Just because people get away with it doesn’t make it legal. You might want to check out my website for a discussion of this issue. http://spot.Colorado.EDU/~weisers I guess it’s time for yet another round of this ongoing discussion.   Let the games begin! — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?

Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 —

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 —

Paddlers usually aren’t trespassing along stream banks!!!  They are merely in transit from the put-in to the take-out!! terry dq

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Hi everyone, This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly.

Tom Visnius had a nice take on this issue as part of a story about a high-water descent of the Pigeon River Dries (NC).  The story was printed first in Messing About, the newsletter of the Western Carolina Paddlers.  Tom has since placed it in his homepage.  Read it at http:\www.cs.unca.edu/~johnsonk/club/pigeon.html. — Chris The relevant passage (by Tom Visnius): Phil and I were the only kayakers hanging out at the campground for a little while. As we waited, I asked a fly-fisherman about an etiquette issue that had been bothering me since my trip down Cataloochee Creek. On creeks in the Park, there’s not a lot of room for both hunter and boater, so it is crucial to communicate to each other how you would like to commingle. Does a boater give the fisher a wide berth, thereby floating directly over the trout that he has been sneaking up on? Or does a boater float right next to the fisher’s knees and risk an assault from a surprised sportsman? This result is not unlikely, so regardless of your right-of-way philosophy, it is worth noting that there are many fishermen who visit Smoky Mountain National Park, and boaters should attempt to communicate with them. Then proceed with caution. The fellow I talked to preferred the idea of boaters paddling close to him so as not to spook the trout.

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I fished alot on the Arkansas and Animas river in Colorado.  The Animas is big enough that if your standing a few feet from one shore the rafter can go to the other side.  Most of the time I am nymphing fairly close to where I’m standing.  In the Arkansas case, its a little narrower and sometimes, if I notice them soon enough, I will step out of the water and let the kyaker or rafter float right over, or better yet to the shore side, of where I was standing. They are usually very willing to remove their feet and oars from the water as they pass by.  Most of them are quite willing to accomodate my directions if the water depth is OK. But you run into jerks in any endeavor. I wouldn’t let it ruin my day.   When it does happen I do get a little agitated and probably verbalize it but I try not to let it linger. Bill A.

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People kayak the Big South occasionally, but they have keepers who take them back to the Home directly from the takeout so that they won’t be a danger to society.

I resemble…I mean resent that remark…. –Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 — Paddlers usually aren’t trespassing along stream banks!!!  They are merely in transit from the put-in to the take-out!! terry dq

Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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Scott, Do us all a big favor and go crawl back under the rock you’ve been hiding under (or was that bloated mass you were cowering under your mother?). Your recent absence from this newsgroup has been wonderful. If you really were stupid enough to cast toward and snag someone (and from your posts, it seems likely you are), you would be entirely deserving of the beating your pathetic corpse received.

So sorry, I’ll try to interject more often, it certainly spices things up doesn’t it. Like I said, civil is as civil does. I just cast, if you happen to be in the way, too damned bad, you had plenty of time to see where I was fishing and avoid it, or at least do the polite thing and pass quietly behind me so as not to put the fish down for a half hour by your antics. If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk.   — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks.

Er, actually, you are probably trespassing when you are *in* the river, boaters and fisherpersons alike, unless you are on Forest Service land or other public land. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them.

That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.   tdq

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: DirecPC   Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: host-37.customer.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Hi everyone, This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly. I guess the easy solution to my problem is to find a section of the river that is kayaker/rafter free.  Does anyone know of any such section of the Poudre?  How about flyfishing only sections and/or catch and release sections? Any help/comments appreciated!  Thanks for reading this. Mike Stephens

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment. Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?  

I, fortunately, have had better experiences than this, being both a fisherman and a paddler on a river at different times. I think most fishermen & paddlers can peacefully co-exist most of the time. The biggest thing paddlers have to remember is that fish like to hang out in eddies also. Fortunately though, most good paddling areas are too strong to fish effectively. Paddle On… -Tom McIntire

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?  

(snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   (snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. Scott Weiser

I see the hugely entertaining Mr. Wieser has once again blessed our humble piece of bandwidth with his presence. The above sounds like a great idea.  Someone is rude or comes too close, so you try to put a hook in them.  A very civil solution.  Or you could just "shoot to wound".  That’ll teach ‘em! – Bill Herring "Can’t we just all get along?" – Rodney King

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Can anyone tell me if they are happy with Nautiraid? I am thinking of a folding boat purchase but have not heard much about Nautiraid.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   (snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. Scott Weiser I see the hugely entertaining Mr. Wieser has once again blessed our humble piece of bandwidth with his presence. The above sounds like a great idea.  Someone is rude or comes too close, so you try to put a hook in them.  A very civil solution.  Or you could just "shoot to wound".  That’ll teach ‘em!

Hey, *some* people are so dense they require operant conditioning and aversion therapy to get the message. Civil is as civil does. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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What is a #10 Wooly Bugger?  Sounds like what my brother’s girlfriend used to call his… Whoops!  Sorry, gotta get back to work… Ed

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers! My personal opinion is that you should discreetly suggest that they move on…try a subtle suggestion… "GET THE HELL OUTTA MY DRIFT YOU YUPPIE BASTARD OR I’LL CREASE YOUR NOODLE" (Stolen without permission from "Fear of Flyfishing"). TimW (Only kidding, violence is not a good suggestion…now, letting the air out of the tires of their shuttle vehicle, THAT can be VERY effective and satisfying).

My thoughts exactly!  I’ve  had similar problems lately on the small river I fish in southwestern Michigan.  It’s quite popular with tubers.   Right now, the window of opportunity for a flyfisherman is limited to approx. a half hour to an hour before dark.  I was out on Sunday and didn’t see a soul until just before dark.  Guess what?  I didn’t see any other fisherman but two separate groups of tubers floated by just as the fish were getting active.  While on the of the tubers was courteous enough to ask where I was fishing, his partner ignored me and floated right over a rising fish.  Then, the second group floated by a few minutes later and showed no consideration whatsoever.  There’s no way they could have finished their float trip by dark.  They have all damn day to float yet they choose to recreate at dusk showing no respect for anyone else.  It puts evil thoughts in your mind.  Of course, the obligatory floatilla of bobbing beer cans followed in close pursuit. BFisher

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!

My personal opinion is that you should discreetly suggest that they move on…try a subtle suggestion… "GET THE HELL OUTTA MY DRIFT YOU YUPPIE BASTARD OR I’LL CREASE YOUR NOODLE" (Stolen without permission from "Fear of Flyfishing"). TimW (Only kidding, violence is not a good suggestion…now, letting the air out of the tires of their shuttle vehicle, THAT can be VERY effective and satisfying).

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(snip) If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range.

Scott, Do us all a big favor and go crawl back under the rock you’ve been hiding under (or was that bloated mass you were cowering under your mother?). Your recent absence from this newsgroup has been wonderful. If you really were stupid enough to cast toward and snag someone (and from your posts, it seems likely you are), you would be entirely deserving of the beating your pathetic corpse received. Regards, Andy The opinions expressed above are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly. I guess the easy solution to my problem is to find a section of the river that is kayaker/rafter free.  Does anyone know of any such section of the Poudre?  How about flyfishing only sections and/or catch and release sections?

I kayak sections of the Poudre below the Narrows regularly.  The water has indeed come down enough so that fishermen (and women) are starting to appear on sections that boaters use.  Earlier in the season, these sections are not really fishable, and much of it still cannot be waded. Commercial rafters on the Poudre usually don’t conflict with fisherpeople because they don’t eddy out very often.  They sail on by _everything_, and to give their customers the most exciting ride, they tend to look for the fastest current and the biggest waves, which will take them away from fisherpeople.  This search for excitement, however, sometimes causes inexperienced guides to flip rafts on otherwise inoccuous sections of the river, and they have been known to literally run over kayakers.  We generally sit in the eddies as they go by because of this. Reasonable kayakers usually stay away from fisherpeople.  The river, after all, is to be shared, and most kayakers do their playing in territory which is not very good for fishing.  Several possiblities for conflict on the Poudre do arise, however: 1.  The Filter Plant run has good holding and wading water and is quite     fishable.  Novice kayakers still use it, though, and they may not     yet be properly "socialized." 2.  The well-known pop-up hole on the Bridges run has an eddy immediately     below it where kayakers wait their turn to attempt enders.  I have     heard that a couple of fishermen have decided that they need to fish     that particular eddy, and they will attempt to drive kayakers away.     Sometimes they will appear when kayakers are there and demand that     they leave.  I have not personally observed this behavior. 3.  I encountered a fisherman at the bottom of PineView Falls who was     casting into an eddy on the far side of the river.  The area is not     wadeable, although the eddy may have held some fish.  The river is     narrow at that point, so the cast was easy, but the presence of his     line all the way across the river created a problem for any kayak or     raft running PineView. Other possibilities for conflict exist anywhere there is an eddy.  By the way, when communicating with fisherpeople, kayakers should be aware that they may refer to an eddy as a "hole," a term which has a different meaning for us! As for good fishing, a couple of places come to mind.  As I mentioned, much of the Filter Plant run is pretty good, and has reduced kayak traffic when the water is low.  Keep #1 above in mind, however.  What traffic there is may be irritating because they don’t know any better. The section above the low bridge below Rustic is rumored to be excellent trout water, and the flatwater curves below the fish hatchery (the Indian Meadows area) are well-known for providing excellent fishing. Indian Meadows is wild trout water, with special restrictions on what you can keep.  No problem for catch-and-release. The Big South fork has some nice fishing water about half a mile from the highway.  People kayak the Big South occasionally, but they have keepers who take them back to the Home directly from the takeout so that they won’t be a danger to society.      John Cooley

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Brian, I have caught many suckers fishing for trout, almost always on nymphs.                                 Mark Faulkner

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Check the July/August issue of American Angler magazine for some tips on fly fishing for suckers. John Likakis

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

much real help.  I have caught suckers a number of times (fair hooked) and on one occasion in the Kakisa River in the NWT, thought I had hooked up with a world record grayling. The fly was a Golden Stone but the kicker is that the water was quite turbid. Because suckers feed off the bottom it is unlikely in clear water with any velocity that you will have much chance. Small nymphs right on the bottom in rather slow moving water will fare better. Carp are another story altogether, they will take a moving fly.

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While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

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. . . And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little . . . Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer

Unlike carp, suckers appear to be exclusively bottom feeders.  Their underslung mouths do not encourage them to take anything not actually resting on the bottom: and their digestions probably absorb anything from algae to big insects e.g. stoneflies.  They seem especially fond of worms, which hints they may scent food. A northern species of sucker called the Northern Redhorse is a beautiful fish (red fins) that runs to 30 inches and could break most fly tippets. Because so unafraid of predators, they can be caught on big nymphs if you can manage a dead drift within one inch of the bottom.  Dead drift (no skidding sideways) is ultra difficult on tippets strong enough to land a big one. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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… snip stuff preliminary to trying to catch suckers … Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin

I am no expert, so have several grains of salt handy, but I believe that suckers determine what is food primarily by the smell of it, whereas bass and trout are sight hunters, determining what is food primarily by what it looks like (I think pike fall into this group as well).  Anyway, because a fly smells like a lump of feathers, fur, and steel, I would guess that you would have limited success with them.   Maybe if you smear that wet fly real well with extract of rotted fish… FWIW, etc. tq

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Dear "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge": When I began fly fishing at the late old age of 24, I apprenticed under the tutelage of a fine old fly fishing gentleman who gave me the real inside skinny on fly fishing and fly selection. The only cast you will ever need is the roll cast and the only fly that will work in such a situation is a #4 Hair Wing Royal Coachman Streamer tied on a Mustad 9575. His reasoning: that the Limerick bend and exaggerated barb of that particular Mustad hook does a superior job of holding the bait. Bait: His enticement of choice was the lowly earth worm, but in your case I would heartlily recommend thin strips of calf’s liver which have aged several weeks or months until dark green (the back of the fridge is perfect for the aging process) and amazingly pungent. Tackle: I recommend a 8-9′, 6 wt., fiberglass, Garcia "Conolon" rod with a "sturdy" action. Line: 6-7 wt. level line. Terminal Tackle: 2-3′ of 0X leader material tied to the line with a double overhand knot. You will need weight to get it to the feeding depth (bottom), so about 1/4 oz. of split shot should do it (remember to use "non-lead" split shot-for the environment you know). Method: Using 6" forceps attach the liver to the aforementioned fly, impaling it twice over the point and barb, douse with a very generous squirt of "Easy Cheez" (my favorite is the "Swiss Flavor"). Simply "Chuck & Duck", quartering upstream, directly into the feeding lane. As the fly approaches the fish, should he not notice the fly (some suckers suffer from "Squirreling Disease" which affects their sight and smell), simply yank the rod 2-3′ upward in the "Field and Stream" position and drive the fly into it’s snout (this is referred to as the "induced take"). Landing the Fish: After a spectacular fight and amazing display of water acrobatics (hauling it in), I implore you to practice "catch and release" fishing, whereby you "release" the fish as far as you can into the woods (ALWAYS be sure to bring "flushable" baby wipes for removing the sucker’s protective slime from your hands and waders after a "catch and release"). This is the option of choice for the true sportsman. Unless of course there happen to be spectators nearby who have emmigrated from country whose vast culinary heritage has bestowed up them a deeper appreciation for such a delicacy. In these cases, I salute their superior senses of taste and smell and it is my practice to reward them with a gift of the fish. Cooking Methods (Once in a while ALL true sportsman will kill a fish to eat): Refer to Schweibert’s "Trout" as many good recipes. adaptable to the tasty sucker, therein can be found. This section of the book alone is makes the purchase of this fine work a justifiable expense. Other great fish cookbooks have been written by LaFontaine and Borger and can be found in better fly shops everywhere. Tight Lines!! Todd L. McCagg "Dry Fly… Schmy Fly!"

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Question:

I’ll be in Montana the first full week of August.  How is the Madison around Ennis Lake fishing?  What should I tie?

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I’ll be in Montana the first full week of August.  How is the Madison around Ennis Lake fishing?  What should I tie?

Hi Davis Family The Madison has been fishing great!  Hoppers (#8) and caddis (EHC #12 – #20 light and dark) are the name of the game and will continue on into August.  Besure to have plenty Bead Head Nymphs, Serendipities (spelling?), attractors (Humpies & Wulffs #12 – #18),etc. Have a good trip. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

I am in the process of selecting a floattube.  I have done some research and have my selection down to 2 different tubes.  The first one is South Fork by buck bags, cost is about USD$450.00.  The other is the River Otter by Water Otter, cost of this is about $900.00.  Both have good selling points to be good floattubes.  But unfortunally have not had a chance to talk to anyone who as used or owns one. Most of our flyfishing is on rivers which seem to be at a flow rate of 400 – 700 CFM.  So it not a heavy moving river.   I am interested in any fedback on floattube selections. Thanks Dan Auga

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Go with the "Otter", much more versatile and comfortable. And safer for rivers.

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I am in the process of selecting a floattube.  I have done some research and have my selection down to 2 different tubes.  The first one is South Fork by buck bags, cost is about USD$450.00.  The other is the River Otter by Water Otter, cost of this is about $900.00.  Both have good selling points to be good floattubes.  But unfortunally have not had a chance to talk to anyone who as used or owns one. Most of our flyfishing is on rivers which seem to be at a flow rate of 400 – 700 CFM.  So it not a heavy moving river.   I am interested in any fedback on floattube selections.

Hi Don I assume you are referring to individual pontoon type crafts because the names you mention are that type not a float tube.  I own a couple of Water Otters and use them in my business (guide) as well as personally.   The outfitter I guide for sells the South Fork and also rents them when requested.  I’ve used the South Fork and it is a really great piece of equipment for the price.  The difference between the River Otter and the South Fork is basically the material the pontoons are constructed of. The South Fork pontoons are constructed from 1000 denier cordura with an inflatable blatter inserted — similar to a float tube.  The River Otter pontoons are constructed from halpalon — the same heavy stuff Avon rafts are made of.  That is basically the difference between the two. I think you should check another option, the Bucks Bronco.  It retails for about $750.00, has the halpalon pontoons and a padded folding seat.   Otherwise is almost the same as the South Fork. If cost is a concern I’d buy the South Fork and use it for a few years.   If you start to get leaks in the pontoons you could up grade to halpalon later. By the way I love my Water Otters but all these newer fancy pontoon boats were not available when I bought my Otters five years ago. If I had it to do over understanding the new crafts available today, I’d buy a Buck’s Bronco. Good luck! Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

I need information on fly fishing for stiped bass.

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I need information on fly fishing for stiped bass.

Head to this url: http://altavista.digital.com/ and do a search using the following keywords: +flyfish +striper And you’ll get at least 128 hits. Plenty of stuff to read/learn…. Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < <        "Charter Member of Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<

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