Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re missing something. A float tube in many states is considered a boat. And CG regulations require you to have a personal flotation device handy on the boat. When float tubes go bad, they often dont’ just leak a little, they deflate quickly. Every year it seems, at least one person dies because his float tube deflates and he/she panics and gets stuck getting out of it or can not swim. Or back home in the southeast, float tubes are a favorite way to fish the tailwaters, and it is not difficult to get careless and upended on moving waters, especially during unscheduled releases.. As long as you’re not stuck under a rock or a log, the floatation device will at least bring you back to the surface. Wayne Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it?

Wayne makes some additional good points r.w. George

  george.vcf

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Response:

You’re missing something.

Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble.

Or maybe someone will happen by with 100 wine corks. <g — Charlie…

Response:

Anyhow r.w. I bought a couple of those minature, under the vest life-vests and I don’t go wading in water over my head without one on.

        it’s statements like that one that make me question whether or not we could exist without you, george.         really, though, i thought you could simply walk on top of water over your head. wayno

Response:

Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble. Or maybe someone will happen by with 100 wine corks. <g

Won’t be necessary.  The little ball inside the whistle is made from cork. Given the well known crowding on Yellowstone waters, it should be obvious that a single toot on the whistle would cause everyone in the immediate area to hurl his or her own whistle at the poor unfortunate, thus providing enough little cork balls to float even the densest ROFFian until the appropriate rescue personnel arrive on the scene. Wolfgang ya gotta love that sense of selfless cooperation

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble. Or maybe someone will happen by with 100 wine corks. <g Won’t be necessary.  The little ball inside the whistle is made from cork. Given the well known crowding on Yellowstone waters, it should be obvious that a single toot on the whistle would cause everyone in the immediate area to hurl his or her own whistle at the poor unfortunate, thus providing enough little cork balls to float even the densest ROFFian until the appropriate rescue personnel arrive on the scene. Wolfgang ya gotta love that sense of selfless cooperation

Some people have been known to drown, while others were wetting their whistles. TL MC

Response:

As long as you’re not stuck under a rock or a log, the floatation device will at least bring you back to the surface.

…so your next of kin can claim the body before it gets all yucky.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

Well, I’m not going to start wearing a life jacket in my float tube. I can always rely on the whistle I had to buy in Yellowstone if I get in trouble. Or maybe someone will happen by with 100 wine corks. <g

Man, have you guys got the wrong theory on this…pull the cork, drink the wine, put the cork back in the bottle, and then toss him both. You’d not need anywhere near 100 – I’d bet that the cork AND the bottle offer more flotation than just the cork, and that way, everyone is happy…. TC, R

Response:

rw  wrote Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it?

I think it’s pretty clear that if you only have one floatation device, in this case, your tube, and it fails… you’re sunk. I recommend one of the auto inflatable life vests as a back up…they have a little ‘panic’ cord that causes the vest to inflate immediatly from a CO2 cartridge.  I understand they have these in models that are basically like suspenders until you need them.  I’m not sure how bulky these are.  Personally, I use an auto inflatable that packs nicely into a pouch approx 10"x6"x2" that easily fits into one of the large storage pockets on my tube.  I would strongly recommend such a device to anyone, especially those who still use a donut style tube. Another word to the wise regarding donut tubes.  Have you ever figured out what you’d do if you fell over in shallow water as you are stepping out of your tube? It’s a good idea to think, in advance, about what you’d do in this situation.  I have heard that some people have drowned just this way. Personally, I use a U-boat that’s got a styrofoam block as a seat.  The latter will float me even if the tube completely deflates.  Given the fact that I wear neoprene waders, and I still keep my auto-inflatable vest in a storage pocket, I feel pretty unsinkable.  (By the way, I keep a whistle too) (Just my luck, I’ll still figure a way to drown myself even with all that back-up!) FiddleAway

Response:

Oh boy BJC.  If ever there was a river to have a Personal Floatation Device, I would think the Deschutes just about rates right up there.  The least someone should do is put a small bottle of Gehrke’s Fly Floatation Device in their vest.  At the last second, they can smear it on their face giving them a chance for a couple of last breaths and casts?

Oh man…if a whole bottle were to fall in a river…man…I shudder. That would have drastic consequences. Iimagine the whole river floating…higher and higher all the way to the jetstream where it flows ethereal and winds its way back to the dream. By the way?  Do you need a free hat B.C.?

Yes, I was thinking it should say…. "Get some Ginkee on your Fingee" Your pal, — The Halfordian Golfer The deceipt ends with the lure.

Response:

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw  wrote Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? I think it’s pretty clear that if you only have one floatation device, in this case, your tube, and it fails… you’re sunk. I can swim. In fact, I can swim pretty well. If I couldn’t swim I probably wouldn’t use a float tube. Life in a series of tradeoffs. I think my chance of a catastrophic float-tube failure, leaving me somewhere from which I couldn’t swim to shore, is pretty remote. That chance doesn’t (in my opinion) merit me using a life vest. I’ll roll those dice, and if they come up snake eyes so be it.

Actually, I was addressing your original statement which was that you do not see the point of wearing a vest.  Actually,  I think you knew in advance why most people have backup floatation devices, but you wanted to make your fatalistic point about snake eyes. I see your point, and I can respect your attitude.  In fact, if having backup weren’t so easy, low hassle, and inexpensive, I might even cop it myself. But, flotation backup is easy and cheap and death by drowning really gives me the creeps.  So as long as I can imagine realistic situations (and I can), though unlikely, where having backup would save my life (when not having them would not), I’ll take it. That is the point for me and I suspect that’s the point for most people (which, as I said, I think you knew already, right?) FiddleAway

Response:

Actually, I was addressing your original statement which was that you do not see the point of wearing a vest.  Actually,  I think you knew in advance why most people have backup floatation devices, but you wanted to make your fatalistic point about snake eyes.

I didn’t mean to imply that someone who wears a life vest or a "backup floatation device" is stupid. I’m sorry if it came across that way. It’s just that in my personal experience I haven’t felt the need for one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

rw wrote Actually, I was addressing your original statement which was that you do not see the point of wearing a vest.  Actually,  I think you knew in advance why most people have backup floatation devices, but you wanted to make your fatalistic point about snake eyes. I didn’t mean to imply that someone who wears a life vest or a "backup floatation device" is stupid. I’m sorry if it came across that way. It’s just that in my personal experience I haven’t felt the need for one.

Er, well, I didn’t mean to imply that you meant to imply that… Actually I thought your subtext was more along the lines of …the less you worry about unlikely things, the more you enjoy whatever it is you’re doing … or something like that. Which happens to be a sentiment I agree with … still, we all have our own comfort level. FiddleAway

Response:

You’re missing something. A float tube in many states is considered a boat. And CG regulations require you to have a personal flotation device handy on the boat. When float tubes go bad, they often dont’ just leak a little, they deflate quickly. Every year it seems, at least one person dies because his float tube deflates and he/she panics and gets stuck getting out of it or can not swim. Or back home in the southeast, float tubes are a favorite way to fish the tailwaters, and it is not difficult to get careless and upended on moving waters, especially during unscheduled releases.. As long as you’re not stuck under a rock or a log, the floatation device will at least bring you back to the surface. Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Isn’t the backrest in your tube inflateable? Isn’t it in all of them? If so, then there is a floatation device right there. Ok, so it’s not CG approved, BFD. Darin

Response:

rw  wrote Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? I think it’s pretty clear that if you only have one floatation device, in this case, your tube, and it fails… you’re sunk.

I can swim. In fact, I can swim pretty well. If I couldn’t swim I probably wouldn’t use a float tube. Life in a series of tradeoffs. I think my chance of a catastrophic float-tube failure, leaving me somewhere from which I couldn’t swim to shore, is pretty remote. That chance doesn’t (in my opinion) merit me using a life vest. I’ll roll those dice, and if they come up snake eyes so be it. Maybe if I were float tubing in the middle of the Great Slave Lake I’d feel differently. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Maine now requires that you carry, not necessarily wear, a USCG approved floatation device when fishing from a tube as they do with any type of boat and/or personal watercraft. I’ve taken to dragging one of those cheapie orange wall mart vests behind my tube since wearing it would be a pain in the ass. I’ve looked at the inflatable SOS-penders and the like and will probably one day get one since I’m not the swimteam type anymore Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Not necessarily r.w.  Cold water temperatures lower the body tempertures which tends to make the blood want to congeal which could result in a heart attack.  One should always have a back up floatation device and it is also a good idea to take asprin the night before to help thin the blood.  Asprin for older folks, each day is a good idea anyhow, if your doctor okays it for you. Float tube do go flat in the middle of a lake for no good reason at all.  We should remember that tire tubes get punctured or spring leaks.  Most systems are two chambered R.W. and all you need is one side to go flat on you and you’re leaning sideways and over you go. Often, in float tubes of various models, the user may fall into the water or need to get out of the floatation tube for various reasons.  The worst thing anyone can do once in the water is to hold onto the fly rod.  Unless someone is close enough to let them reach your butt section to drag you out or towards them, let the damned thing go.  Fly rods are expendable but you’re not. Anyhow r.w. I bought a couple of those minature, under the vest life-vests and I don’t go wading in water over my head without one on.  I also don’t go tubing or floating anywhere without wearing one.  So the smart option is to always make a back up floatation device part of your main system.  Be a ground hog, have a back door escape route  planned or ready in case you may need it. Trying to swim with fly fishing thermo clothing, waders, flippers, vests, heavy coats, etc. on is not the same as trying to swim in a warm pool with just trunks on. (Or skinny dipping)  Another factor is does the tuber smoke?  Frailing around in ice cold lake water and worse yet, spring fed ponds with little or no good lung power doesn’t assure enough energy to reach shore.  I know of one gentleman who was paddled himself right into a sharp stick that was just an inch under the water.  Put a hole the size of a baseball into his tube and he sunk in seconds!  If I wasn’t there, he would have drowned. Get one of those little CO2 life vests r.w.  It’s wonderful life insurance. George Gehrke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the point of wearing a life vest in a float tube. A float tube by definition floats, doesn’t it? If you fall out, can’t you just hang on to it? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

  george.vcf

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Response:

Last I heard, here in Washington a float tube was considered a swim toy, therefore no PFD required. Darin

Response:

If you are in the deschutes in your pontoon boat you have to have a PFD,  a trip permit and a container for waste ( that more that just candy bar wrappers ).  I have heard from some people that it applies to float tubes also but have not had a chance to talk to the ODFG yet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube

Response:

Oh boy BJC.  If ever there was a river to have a Personal Floatation Device, I would think the Deschutes just about rates right up there.  The least someone should do is put a small bottle of Gehrke’s Fly Floatation Device in their vest.  At the last second, they can smear it on their face giving them a chance for a couple of last breaths and casts?  By the way?  Do you need a free hat B.C.? ;  } – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are in the deschutes in your pontoon boat you have to have a PFD,  a trip permit and a container for waste ( that more that just candy bar wrappers ).  I have heard from some people that it applies to float tubes also but have not had a chance to talk to the ODFG yet. I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube

  george.vcf

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Response:

I wouldn;t use a tube without a life vest system of some sort. I use a floater vest, made by mustang. It is inflatable, fits just like a fishing vest, is waterproof, and has a CO2 cartridge for inflation. Also has a mouth tube. Catsing is no problem, even when I weighed 250 lbs. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube.  The reason, of course, is that you can’t cast with a life vest on over my 225 pounds of body.  I saw an article that discussed flooding your waders to see what happens.  At least with neoprene, you float and in fact it is hard to keep your feet down, even when it is completely filled with water.  Since I use neoprene, exclusively, in my float tube that was an encouraging article.  However, there are the fish & game folks out, very rarely, but sometimes and I don’t want a ticket and I don’t want to wear a life vest.  I looked at the inflatable suspenders thingies ($75 a pair and coast guard approved), and they are a bother to cast around also (I tried them on at the fly shop, stepped outside with one of their rods and was not pleased, especially while I was sitting).  My float tube, The Woodriver Gliderider, comes with a floatation cushion and it puts me too high up in the seat of my tube and I also lose some of the pinch effect of the pontoons that hold me in (besides the law is that I have to be ‘wearing’ the floatation device.  I feel safe in my neoprenes; even if  I have to swim in them (the article goes on to say that it was not much of a challenge to swim in waders, a little awkward, but not much).  Also, my float tube has separate chambers for safety and I think that is good as well.  I realize that there is an available safety inflatable cushion that you can put in a pocket, but the current law requires the angler to be WEARING the floatation device. What the hell do you guys, who use float tubes, do? Padishar Creel – Don’t mind the whistle part of the law, makes good sense…

Response:

I know that you did not like them, but I use the SOSpenders.  I weigh a little more than you so it can be done.  I find that in either the pontoon or tube I can cast while wearing them.  As I’m a lousy swimmer, I sometimes wear them if I fish alone on the Deschutes.  In Oregon, I think the law is to have one available in a floating device, but not specifically to be wearing it.  That allows those hip pack inflatables to be used if they are Coast Guard approved. On swimming, here is a link on swimming in waders.  It also shows the application of a hip pack inflatable. http://www.westernflyfisher.com/index.asp?i=0101p25v5&t=1 ra kane at gte dot net "BassCreel" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube.  The reason, of course, is that you can’t cast with a life vest on over my 225 pounds of body.  I saw an article that discussed flooding your waders to see what happens.  At least with neoprene, you float and in fact it is hard to keep your feet down, even when it is completely filled with water.  Since I use neoprene, exclusively, in my float tube that was an encouraging article.  However, there are the fish & game folks out, very rarely, but sometimes and I don’t want a ticket and I don’t want to wear a life vest.  I looked at the inflatable suspenders thingies ($75 a pair and coast guard approved), and they are a bother to cast around also (I tried them on at the fly shop, stepped outside with one of their rods and was not pleased, especially while I was sitting).  My float tube, The Woodriver Gliderider, comes with a floatation cushion and it puts me too high up in the seat of my tube and I also lose some of the pinch effect of the pontoons that hold me in (besides the law is that I have to be ‘wearing’ the floatation device.  I feel safe in my neoprenes; even if  I have to swim in them (the article goes on to say that it was not much of a challenge to swim in waders, a little awkward, but not much).  Also, my float tube has separate chambers for safety and I think that is good as well.  I realize that there is an available safety inflatable cushion that you can put in a pocket, but the current law requires the angler to be WEARING the floatation device. What the hell do you guys, who use float tubes, do? Padishar Creel – Don’t mind the whistle part of the law, makes good sense…

Response:

I never wear a life vest when I am in my float tube.  The reason, of course, is that you can’t cast with a life vest on over my 225 pounds of body.  I saw an article that discussed flooding your waders to see what happens.  At least with neoprene, you float and in fact it is hard to keep your feet down, even when it is completely filled with water.  Since I use neoprene, exclusively, in my float tube that was an encouraging article.  However, there are the fish & game folks out, very rarely, but sometimes and I don’t want a ticket and I don’t want to wear a life vest.  I looked at the inflatable suspenders thingies ($75 a pair and coast guard approved), and they are a bother to cast around also (I tried them on at the fly shop, stepped outside with one of their rods and was not pleased, especially while I was sitting).  My float tube, The Woodriver Gliderider, comes with a floatation cushion and it puts me too high up in the seat of my tube and I also lose some of the pinch effect of the pontoons that hold me in (besides the law is that I have to be ‘wearing’ the floatation device.  I feel safe in my neoprenes; even if  I have to swim in them (the article goes on to say that it was not much of a challenge to swim in waders, a little awkward, but not much).  Also, my float tube has separate chambers for safety and I think that is good as well.  I realize that there is an available safety inflatable cushion that you can put in a pocket, but the current law requires the angler to be WEARING the floatation device. What the hell do you guys, who use float tubes, do? Padishar Creel – Don’t mind the whistle part of the law, makes good sense…

Response:

Question:

Having spent a couple enjoyable afternoons casting around on Chittenango Creek, I’m wondering if there are stretches that make more sense for fly fishing than others.  I’ve been drifting nymphs in the fast water within a mile below the falls, mostly because the lower stretches have numerous posted signs. Are there any public areas I’m missing above or below the village?  How about above the falls?  Thanks in advance. DS

Response:

DS, I didn’t know Chittenango Creek was open this time of year.  Well anyway, there is a public fishing area above the falls a little ways that I’ve never had much luck at but it might be worth a try.  I’ve never had any problem with posted land along the stream, the only area that’s posted that I know of that prevents access is near the concrete blocks with the cable strung between them. If you drive downstream from the falls on the highway the first left hand turn on a gravel rd ( I can’t remember the name) will allow pretty easy access.  Downstream from the gravel road there are plenty of nice pools and riffles that hold some decent fish but can be a little hard to maneuver around when summer rolls around and the area gets more overgrown. I’ve never fished much in the village but have seen many others.  Check out the Yankee Fly shop in the village the owner would probably know more than I. I have to say that Chittenango creek is one of my favorite streams the entire area below the falls has plenty of fish. Hope this helps. Wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having spent a couple enjoyable afternoons casting around on Chittenango Creek, I’m wondering if there are stretches that make more sense for fly fishing than others.  I’ve been drifting nymphs in the fast water within a mile below the falls, mostly because the lower stretches have numerous posted signs. Are there any public areas I’m missing above or below the village?  How about above the falls?  Thanks in advance. DS

Response:

Question:

Hi Dale, The lower Sacramento river is getting better every year. The area is mostly between Redding and Anderson. A special system was installed on the dam above Redding so they can control the water temperature out of Shasta for the salmon mostly, but it is helping the trout and steelhead too. Also, a reduced limit has helped too. It has a large population of big wild rainbow trout and in the fall get a ton of King salmon and some steelhead. It fishes good almost year round, but October is one of the top months. There are a lot of caddis in the river and then with the salmon spawning, there are lots of salmon eggs available too. Like an alaskan river, the salmon spawn and die so the trout eat the eggs, then the they eat the salmon fry and they also eat the decaying salmon flesh. It is a great life cycle going on up there. You need size #14 caddis pupa, emergers and dries to deal with the thousand of caddis in the river and you need some salmon egg imitations like Glo Bugs, that were invented in that part of the country. I fish up there a few time a year with veteran Redding guide, George Durand. The main system is a 9′ or longer #6 or 7 weight outfit with a floating line. Then a yarn or wool indicator up high on the leader. Then a bunch (4′ to 8′) of ~4x tippet. The longer and lighter the tippet, the deeper you can go in this big river. Some split shot will give you more depth. George has some of his own special flies, but many anglers use the #14 Bird’s Net or a #14 caddis pupa like a Z-Wing Caddis. A new thing for George the last few years is to hang something like a #16 Flashback PT below the large nymph to imitate the smaller mayflies (Baetis?) that are in the river. PS: This ‘Right Angel’ system of nyphing was developed by Dean Schubert and Dave Hickson of Northern California. It is now used world wide for trout and steelhead and is a standard on the big rivers that flow into Lake Taupo in New Zealand. Going with a guide on the river at first is the best way for most of us. The Fly Shop in Redding has a large staff of good guides and there are some top indepentent guides like George Durand, Art Teeters and Dave Simmons. If you have any questions, feel free to email or call my toll free(USA) number. 800/4000FLY

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good Evening, All, I wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded to my request for info on where to fish in San Jose or Sacramento.  Several of you e-mailed me and several others responded to my post.  Thanks for taking the time to help me out… I really appreciate it. I have decided to head up to Redding and fish the lower Sac.  I called the Flyshop in Redding and have a tentative booking for a half day float trip on Sunday, 3 Oct.  I plan on fishing the Sac all day Saturday. Anybody care to hook up with an out of towner and enjoy a day of dipping? One last question… looking for fly reccomendations and patterns as I tie (really enjoy it!)  Rachel at the Flyshop recommended a Bird’s Nest and a glo something (salmon egg I presume.)  Anything else to ty up and bring?  Any pattern help would be most appreciated. If any of you are ever in the central Texas area, let me know… be glad show our trout stream (yes, we actually have one!) — Regards, Dale Neidhammer Synchronicity Inc. Field Applications Engineer http://www.syncinc.com 512/515-6466

Response:

Good Evening, All, I wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded to my request for info on where to fish in San Jose or Sacramento.  Several of you e-mailed me and several others responded to my post.  Thanks for taking the time to help me out… I really appreciate it. I have decided to head up to Redding and fish the lower Sac.  I called the Flyshop in Redding and have a tentative booking for a half day float trip on Sunday, 3 Oct.  I plan on fishing the Sac all day Saturday. Anybody care to hook up with an out of towner and enjoy a day of dipping? One last question… looking for fly reccomendations and patterns as I tie (really enjoy it!)  Rachel at the Flyshop recommended a Bird’s Nest and a glo something (salmon egg I presume.)  Anything else to ty up and bring?  Any pattern help would be most appreciated. If any of you are ever in the central Texas area, let me know… be glad show our trout stream (yes, we actually have one!) — Regards, Dale Neidhammer Synchronicity Inc. Field Applications Engineer http://www.syncinc.com 512/515-6466

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Question:

Phew. Good story. How about more of this? Who out there among us has ever written a story for publication, only to have it rejected by some pip-squeek assistant editor? Why not publish yourself on the web? right here? This beats the hell out of C&R pissing. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

Response:

Why not publish yourself on the web? right here?

What, and give away blood, sweat & tears FOR FREE ? My literary agent would have a coronary. — Ken Fortenberry

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‘There’s nothing like making a definitive stement on the net to provehow wrong you are’

Too true, too true!

Response:

Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch.

(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

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(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

Perfectly true, I know, I was that trout ! TL MC

Response:

Damn bait fisherman!  We need more bartenders like that around all trout streams! Warren

Response:

Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch. If some of the local worthies were to be believed he had been doing this every summer for the last ten years. Experts and tyros, men of letters, small boys with worms,  although the water was fly only, and even lowly poachers,  had all attempted the difficult cast at one time or another over the years, some even successfully, the jaw of the fish was laced with white scars easily visible in the clear water, testimony to the "barbs and arrows of outrageous fortune" to which he had been subjected and which he now bore with seeming nonchalance, perhaps even truculent pride. A hard won but most excellent education.  In the "Stag

Question:

Just flip them back out with your gig pole, or your push pole.  The biggest thing is to learn how to tell a water snake from a cotton mouth.  They will vary in color from a light tan through to a dark brown and all the way to black, so look for the thick body and big head.

A very good point Pat. I grew up around the swamps in southeast Texas and saw a wide range of colors. The thick body and wide heads are the correct clues. I once was working at a golf course where one clogged a 6" sprinkler intake pipe in one of the ponds. Imagine my coworker’s reaction when he waded out, feeling for what was there and found that cotton mouth. Jesus wasn’t the only one who walked (ran) on water. Tyler Hopper

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I was told one way to tell if  a snake is of a dangerious kind is to watch how they swin in the water. If a snake swins with head parallel and very close to the surface of the water, then watch out! OTOH, if a snake swims with its head way out of the water, chances are it won’t be something nasty as cotton mouth and the likes. I never understood why, but it seemed to work for me. Joe

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As a rule, most snakes are more afraid of you than you are of them, including rattlers.  The major exception to this rule is the cotton mouth, they will actively defend their territory if they are on land.  I grew up in southeast Alabama within walking distance of 3 good sized ponds, all of which were full of snakes and I can tell you from experience that a big cotton mouth will chase you away if you intrude on their "property". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  My experience with snakes in general is that they are more afraid of you than vice versa, and will try to get out of your way if possible. Warren Funk

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Thanks to all who answered my question with advice and fascinating stories.  I appreciate all the answers.   Butch Formerly Corkbug, now DeepSnag! Thanks again guys!

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I recently began fishing both fly and bait casting in the tidal waters of South Eastern Virginia.  I am a little concerned with the safety of wading in these waters with the prevalence of ‘Water Mocassins’.  Do other people wade regularly in these waters and are there any particular precautions one should take? Thanks for any input Butch

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CorkBug – a sawed-off 12 gauge comes to mind first.  Overall, I think you’d be fairly safe, but snakes are snakes, and you can’t predict their behavior. I have seen one up close and personal (four feet long, size of your wrist, and extremely angry).  Of course, he had three treble hooks in his middle, so I suppose you could assume he had reason.  My experience with snakes in general is that they are more afraid of you than vice versa, and will try to get out of your way if possible.  I fished with a buddy who carried a .357 loaded with .38 bird shot–worked great. Warren Funk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently began fishing both fly and bait casting in the tidal waters of South Eastern Virginia.  I am a little concerned with the safety of wading in these waters with the prevalence of ‘Water Mocassins’.  Do other people wade regularly in these waters and are there any particular precautions one should take? Thanks for any input Butch

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In water shallow enough to wade in, it’s not likely that a cotton mouth will be under water, you will see them coming, unless they are coming from behind.  They tend to be aggressive about defending their "territory" so keep an eye out for them.  If the water is fast moving I doubt that you will see many snakes in it anyway.  Another thing to keep in mind.  Where there are water moccasins, there will also be a lot of harmless water snakes that look just like their more dangerous cousins.  The cotton mouth tends to be thicker through the body than the average water snake, plus there is always the head that is wider than the body as a dead giveaway that you have a cotton mouth on your hands.  Another thing that cotton mouths like to do is get in the boat with you at night.  I’ve never understood why, but we frog gig quite a bit from a small jon boat with one guy in front with a headlight and a gig while another guy poles the boat from the back. It’s not unusual for a big ‘ole moccasin to crawl over the side and into the boat. Just flip them back out with your gig pole, or your push pole.  The biggest thing is to learn how to tell a water snake from a cotton mouth.  They will vary in color from a light tan through to a dark brown and all the way to black, so look for the thick body and big head. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently began fishing both fly and bait casting in the tidal waters of South Eastern Virginia.  I am a little concerned with the safety of wading in these waters with the prevalence of ‘Water Mocassins’.  Do other people wade regularly in these waters and are there any particular precautions one should take? Thanks for any input Butch

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Question:

I will be going to MSU in mid October for a meeting and was thinking about bringing my gear to try a little fly fishing in the area. Could anyone give me a few suggestions as to the in’s and out’s of the area? Any information would be great. eg locations, conditions, etc. Many thanks, Brian — Brian

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I do not know Lansing area, but mid-October on in MI advice from me is: 1.Get the licence and booklet and note where rivers have "extended seasons"   (for Steelhead, Salmon, Trout). 2. Go there.  Target steelhead.  Closest famous place may be Grand Rapids on the Grand, but the Grand comes right into lansing.  I’ve seen Salmon climb the step damn at Grand Ledge.  You will be semi close to the Pere Marquette, White, Manistee, Little Manistee, etc.  (1.5-3 hrs) Mid october may present a problem of "Black ugly chinook present".              - rork.

: I will be going to MSU in mid October for a meeting and was thinking about : bringing my gear to try a little fly fishing in the area. Could anyone : give me a few suggestions as to the in’s and out’s of the area? Any : information would be great. eg locations, conditions, etc. Many thanks, : Brian : — : Brian

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I don’t know about specific locations but I read recently that parts of the Grand River around Lansing are the best Smallmouth waters in the entire state, and that’s not just for rivers. Good luck, Jason Schwartz I will be going to MSU in mid October for a meeting and was thinking about bringing my gear to try a little fly fishing in the area. Could anyone give me a few suggestions as to the in’s and out’s of the area? Any information would be great. eg locations, conditions, etc. Many thanks, Brian — Brian

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Brian, General trout season ends on September 30 but there are extended season trout streams.  Fish creek is about an hour + from Lansing and does have brown and brook trout.  However, I recommend you stay in the Lansing area.  Lake Lansing is one of the better large mouth bass lakes in the state and is just outside of town.  There are also lots of panfish (bluegill, pumpkinseed, and black crappie) and some pike.  The Red Cedar River, which runs through the MSU campus, has a variety of warmwater fish.  The Grand River, which runs through Lansing and points West, has small mouth bass among others.  If you are interested I know a guide who is an expert on the Grand and can show you the ropes.  And there is a TU group here that can be helpful. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be going to MSU in mid October for a meeting and was thinking about bringing my gear to try a little fly fishing in the area. Could anyone give me a few suggestions as to the in’s and out’s of the area? Any information would be great. eg locations, conditions, etc. Many thanks, Brian — Brian

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Question:

I try to bring a rod/reel with me when I backpack (my friend always brings his).  I mainly bring a few flys with me.  I think a good time to fish is when the mosquitos come out.  If you look at a lake you’ll see if fish are in there when the mosquitos are out (feeding time). Harold. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing?

To the best of my knowledge,  trout are not native to most alpine lakes.  There is always a fall or bad rapids that prevents upstream migration.  If there are fish in high country lakes, they probably are stocked.  You’ll just have to ask.  the best place is a local fly shop. …… Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within…..

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  

Well, here is an answer from a dedicated fisherman who backpacks. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands.

Hard to say why you have never seen a fish up in the mountains… They are harder to see because they are wild and blend in with the bottom better, and they tend to be a lot smaller due to the restricted growing season. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. Darryl Hayashida

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snip Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

Hi John,         I do a lot of solo hiking and always carry fishing equipment which pays for the space and weight.  Most of my experience is in Yosemite and Sequoia, and I’ve never failed to catch small native trout.  I know there are a lot of purist who’ll object, but this is food, and I eat every one.         I carry a collapsible 7′ rod, a mini spinning reel with 4# mono line.  I use #18 bronze treble hooks and carry a black film canister filled with fresh velveta.  I barely cover the hook, this is small, like the head of a book match.  More will work, not any better though, and the fish are usually small anyway.         I fly fish some, so I understand a little about reading water.  I found fish in 4" slow runs, places too small to hide a canteen, places you’d swear wouldn’t hold a 6" trout.  I don’t cast, just drop it in and let the water pull off some line, and when it stops I reel in the slack.  Never counted how many tries to catch a fish, but I’ve never gotten bored or hungry.         Landing the fish is no problem.  I use the 2" blade on my Swiss Army knife to clean them per the Rappalla book.  I rinse them well and nestle them head to tail, wrap them in aluminum foil, and place them in the hot embers.  They have a lot of flavor.         Other things in my fishing kit:                 Red plastic hook disgorger with the big end cut off and                         the shaft roughened                 A clean plastic super market vegetable bag which I rinse                         and use again to put the dispatched fish on my                         belt                 1/4 of an old facecloth for picking up wigglin’ fish         Guess there are some other things I carry, sliding sinkers for lakes, a couple of small casting lures to amuse myself with, and a couple  plastic look-alike bugs.  Hope this helps. –Charleroi

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Do you really think that experienced people are going post their favorite fishing spot? Would you like by some land which occasionally above water? I don’t fish, so I won’t suggest that people fish at the V. place. But others can.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

I thought they were talking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heavier line.  2lbs test is just not strong enough for bear. My mistake. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

Actually, I thought they were walking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heaver line.  2 lbs test is just too light for bear. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

  POWER BAIT???  That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado.

I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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writes: The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish.

I use flies, but I don’t know how to fly fish in the traditional sense. I use a spinning rod and reel. About 2-3 feet from the end of the line I attach a elongated teardrop-shaped bobber. It has a rubber tube inside that the line slides through, then to secure it, I just give it a few twists. A plug opens on one end that I can fill with water; too much and it’ll sink, too little and I can’t cast far. Simple! Then I just tie on a fly on the end of the line and, wallah, flyfishing for people like me! My knowledge is that most high lakes in Washington state are stocked. I’m not sure how to tell the difference between wild and harvested fish. Anyone know? Jason R. wherever you go, there you are – HDT

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

Colorado has excellent fishing in alpine lakes above 9000′ primarily as a result of aerial stocking begun in the 1950’s. Cutthroat trout are the most common with brook and rainbow trout doing well also.Due to the pristine environment, abundant aquatic insect population and light fishing pressure these trout can grow larger than their cousins in low altitude streams and rivers. The dramatic changes in water temperature of high lakes probably has the greatest effect on fishing success. As the sun warms water close to shore the fish will migrate to the center or to deeper areas of the lake. Not very productive for a fisherman stuck on the shore. For this reason the higher the lake is the better, especially as summer wears on and the lower lakes gradually become warmer. Regards,  Brian

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Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink.

Would you mind terribly to expound a little bit on "extra-fast sinking shooting head" for us novice fly fishers? I mean, this is some sort of wet fly? Do you need a sinking line (maybe that is obvious but I will ask anyway). Thanks, Lawrence Kennon

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?

There are: In "rec.outdoors.fishing.fly"  Virtually all of my backcountry travel centers on fly fishing.  I usually make one trip a year into the GSMNP and one trip into the Wind River Range.  The former is stream fishing, the latter almost exclusively lake fishing.  Most of these lakes are at or above timberline.  I don’t want to rub it in, but we always catch fish; lots of them too. Let me take the liberty to answer some questions and clarify some misconceptions: First, just because you can’t see fish does not mean they aren’t there. You have to look VERY carefully to see fish, must have a trained eye, and you must have polarized glasses (to reduce glare).  Keep in mind that trout are prey for many beasts of the wild, and if you can see them, they can almost certainly see you.  On many occasions, the only fish I ever see are those in my hand when I’m releasing them!   Second, there are few lakes of any size in the U.S. that really have only a 2-month ice out.  There are lots of lakes, however, that may be completely iced out for only 3 months or so.  This does not preclude a productive fishery.  I have fished lakes in the Wind River Range that are ice free for at most 4 months a year (July-Oct), and yet are extremely productive.  I fished a lake last year at 11,000 ft that held cutthroats up to nearly 30 inches (yep, 30 inches, not 30 centimeters).  This lake was still 1/4 iced-in the first week of August!  There probably is a limit to how high a lake can be and still support fish, but it is probably about the same limit as for people, which is higher than 13,000 ft (I think it is between 15K and 18K, but can’t remember). Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink. Fourth, although it is true that few alpine lakes outside of the Sierras have native trout, many alpine lakes have self sustaining populations of wild trout.  For example, none of the lakes in the Winds originally had fish.  Much of the stocking was done by Finis Mitchell and his family in the 1920s and 1930s.  Many of these lakes have received no fish since then. Fifth, there are fishless alpine lakes out there, no doubt about it.  Lakes can be too shallow (they freeze solid, or nearly so); they can become oxygen depleted in the winter (esp. a problem if there is no inlet or outlet); and the water can be so sterile that there aren’t enough nutrients to feed the bugs that feed the fish (typically a problem for the first lake immediately below glaciers, etc.). If you have any questions, I’d be happy to try to answer them, except for the names of the lakes .  2-3 months of the year, and yet are extremely productive fisheries. are ice free for

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

Spinners would be my second choice if I didn’t have my fly fishing gear with me. I fished spinners for ten years before I started fly fishing. It isn’t that one is more successful than the other, I just enjoy fly fishing, especially dry fly fishing more than spin fishing. My favorite spinner was (still is on the rare occasion that I spin fish) a size 1 or 2 (small) Panther Martin black body with yellow spots, gold blade. Darryl Hayashida

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

As someone else commented, most of the alpine lakes in CO were stocked at some time.  My father-in-law worked for Colorado Fish and Game, and one of his jobs was stocking wilderness lakes. He’d ride a horse and lead a pack string with panniers filled with fingerlings!  Lakes that were farther than a day’s ride, or inaccessible by horseback, were stocked by helicopter.  That must have been a sight! We’ve caught trout in lakes at 12,160 feet.  Most very high lakes are small and freeze thickly in the winter, so many are sterile unless there is ongoing stocking.  Trout are able to swim through some pretty impressive falls, though, so there is some migration, and if the lake is big enough the fish will be ok through the winter. Most of the lakes I’ve backpacked to in the Colorado high country have fish in them.  This doesn’t guarantee dinner, though. —   _][   Data Support Section * National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)       __PO Box 3000, Boulder, Colorado 80307 * 303/497-1214 * 303/497-1298 fax

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s. greg rose

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains.

I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

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It’s not hidden, you didn’t bother looking: Panel 26: Fishing         alt.fishing         alt.archery         rec.outdoors.fishing         rec.outdoors.fishing.fly         rec.boats Just like the white water paddlers. Like Muir said, Fishing is boring.

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? Gary

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ?

I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing? You will let us know how this turns out, won’t you? Lawrence Kennon

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alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come

I always do the same thing.  Most of my hiking  is done around larger bodies of water (lakes and such) Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques?

I’m always glad I packed the rod.  Even if I don’t catch anything (most of the time) I like to fish anyway.  Gives me an excuse not to do the dishes after supper! Andrew Roberts

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . I’ve had reasonable success in the last few years in fishing the

backcountry.  My buddy and I mostly catch-and-release (e.g. last year in Colorado we landed over 30 in an afternoon), but we sometimes keep enough to "have a feast."  I guess I could say that the secret is to be prepared for a "hunt" to find what the fish are interested in.  Last year, it was easy enough because they were hitting small spinners (e.g., Panther Martin’s and Mepps) on very light line (e.g. 2 lb.).  However, the previous year (in New Mexico), the fish just weren’t interested in anything in our "tackle box."  So, we resorted to using little grubs found in the stream bed (helgromites (sp), I believe they are called), and the fish went nuts.  We used a very small hook and "bobbed" the bait up and down.  Actually, it was more like try to get the hook into the water and out again before one latched on.  (I actually had one fish–they were native cut-throat–jump out of the water to get the bait).  So, a lot of trial-and-error will probably be necessary to find what they are attracted to.  However, it has been load of fun.  BTW:   These cases were both streams above 9000 feet.  My only recent experience with mountain lakes was a small lake in Apache-Setgreaves (Arizona), which had obviously been stocked with Artic Grayling (and "interesting" fish to pull out of the water in Arizona!).

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

In Colorado I have had very good luck with a small spin casting rod/reel (4 lb test) using little 1/16 ounce spinners (Wooters, or Hooters, or something like that are my favorite). I have caught trout in lakes over 11,000 feet while standing on old snow on the bank and icebergs floating in the lake. Most of the lakes _do_ have edible (_very_ edible) trout in them. Have never had any luck on streams (haven’t really tried) but have seen fly fisherman catch them in streams. There is the little lake around Garfied (sorry, can’t tell you the name, that is my secret!) up about 11,000 feet or so, very small and fishable only at one end where it is deep enough. I had the best fishing day of my life there a couple years ago. We set up the tent and left the wife and kids to go look for a place to fish on this lake (first time there) and I found this little "hole" at one end. In a few minutes with approx. 7-8 casts I caught 5 great trout, several of them quite big. Needless to say we feasted that night. The bad news is that it is quite a hike off the beaten path to get there. Perhaps that is why there were a lot of hungry and unwary fish. Look for a lake like that, one that is _hard_ to get to, one that isn’t visited often. lk

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

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Question:

Anyone have any info on how the fishing has been on the St. Mary’s Rapids in Sault Ste. Marie  as of late ?  Never been there before – any advice ?

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Anyone have any info on how the fishing has been on the St. Mary’s

Rapids in Sault Ste. Marie as of late ?  Never been there before – any advice ? See the Linsenman/Nevala book Great Lakes Steelhead: a Guided Tour for Fly Anglers (Backcountry Pubs. 1995) which suggests SSM trout are practically a year-round fishery and mentions a local guide, Karl Vogel IIRR. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Hi Seal-EX is distributed by Rocky Mountain Dubbing in Lander, WY. They don’t sell directly to the public but could probably tell you a store they serve near you. You can reach them at 800-866-4094. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT

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There is a new product available from Partridge in the SLF range that I personally find a lot easier to dub, is much more like seal and comes in a lovely array of colors. It was developed by Davy Wotton and Poul Jorgensen (original developer of Seal-Ex) and is available at http://www.flyfield.com

It’s neat stuff, but sparkles a lot more than natural seal does.  Fishes great though.                                                              Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Does anyone know a supplier of Poul Jorgansen’s Seal-Ex dubbing? If you havn’t used it, it shines like a mother, and is great for caddis pupa. Thanx, Adam

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Question:

Fly fishing for Bass on the Kanawha River near Charleston, West Virginia is a trip.. Something not for the typical Fisherman. Now the water is up and very muddy, but when it go back down, I’ll let everyone know how the Fishing is…. Misha

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very muddy, but when it go back down, I’ll let everyone know how the Fishing is….

Yes please!  I especially like that strech just before Rt. 60 goes up into the mountains.  (would that be Gauly Bridge? ) Bob

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