Question:

<SNIP  and my Red Chili dove enchiladas are muy bueno (quail and pheasant have been substituted at times).

<SNIP Sounds delicious!   Care to share the recipe? — George Reinier

Response:

NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member NSS life member

Life Life Member — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

Greetings: Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

Please see suggestions/possible ideas below. A pan can be a summer luxury, but it is far from a necessity. A mentor made an oven (he was in the Corps of Engineers), and he would bring in Goldens and make brownies or gingerbread (I preferred the brownies), and I would spend the day off climbing, and life was grand.  An oven is even more of a luxury. There used to be commercial ovens, but several factors have reduced seeing them. Improvising is a key.

  Yup, and the hungrier one is, the more one improvises – at least in our camps! I prefer to fry my trout in some oil or butter, lightly coated in corn meal.  (Important note:  If preparing fish this way after dark, _do not_ confuse corn meal bag with  powdered orange juice mix bag!)  :-(  There are many other options – just some examples: One can make a one-time fry pan out of aluminum foil. Wrap trout in aluminum foil and roast on hot coals. Roast them on a stick.   Trout au bleu [blue trout] Someone help me with my French, _please_.

 For this, you must be in a place where trout can be caught immediately: Prepare rest of meal, i.e., make rice and/or suitable other items in advance.  Bring water in pan to boil, and squeeze a little lemon juice in the water.  (You can carry a lemon a long time on most backpacking trips.)  Have someone catch trout and toss to another fellow camper, if possible.  Clean trout, preferably with one stroke, and plunge trout into boiling water.  Boil for about 30 seconds, or until flesh flakes off easily.  If you do this right, the trout flesh will turn light blue, hence the name.  Very light and flaky with most oils boiled away.  Even if the trout flesh doesn’t turn light blue, it will taste good anyway.  On a side note, I heard that fishermen in the northern states, (and perhaps Canada?), sometimes boil large lake trout in 50 gallon drums for fish-feeds.  Is that true?  If so, I would like to try that sometime. "Slurp" indeed!  :-) Cheers, and happy trials,  -Mark NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member

Heck, I’d rather write ‘em a check every year, just in case I change my mind!  :-)

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

A pan can be a summer luxury, but it is far from a necessity. A mentor made an oven (he was in the Corps of Engineers), and he would bring in Goldens and make brownies or gingerbread (I preferred the brownies), and I would spend the day off climbing, and life was grand.  An oven is even more of a luxury. There used to be commercial ovens, but several factors have reduced seeing them. Improvising is a key. NRA Life Member

Sierra Club Life Member

Response:

NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member

NSS life member              We’ll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

Aluminum foil cannot be overrated.  Trout can be cooked in foil, and a small amount of spice, green pepper, onion, bottled salad dressing, or whatever can be added.  Not a lot to carry, and makes some very tasty fish.   PS.  Do not forget the matches. Steve Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

Response:

OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks

For car-camping I bring all the cooking luxuries.  Foil, some lemon and butter work most of the time with a wood fire.  It’s a little difficult to cook up a good sized trout with a Whisperlite though (frying up something you have filleted is easier).  You have to move around your under-sized light-weight backpacking frying pan and flip the fish a few times (I prefer my fish under-cooked, vs. over-cooked).  I do have a moderate weight grate I bring backpacking sometimes. NRA Life Member

Not again. — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

Response:

I would hike in about 2 1/2 hour hike then fish about 3-4 hours up river I have a good size day pack I use for my waders and boots I would not be close to a car when I cooked the trout. Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this? NRA Life Member

Response:

: OK to those who do this lets say you : like to make a small fire and cook a few : for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, : small grill top or what? What have you : tried.Thanks : NRA Life Member A friend brought along a small butane stove, teflon fry pan, a little oil and a little breading and some tortillas. We had fresh fish tacos alongside the stream on a fine bushwhacking daytrip. The tortillas made a great way to handle the cooked fish. I find that carrying the fish-cooking pan and supplies isn’t worth the weight since I’m already carrying a *reliable* cook-anywhere dinner when backpacking. Fishing is just entertainment for me. Last backpacking trip I was glad I’d left the fishing gear home. It was a very aggressive, off-trail, no-one-we-could-contact-has-ever-been-there kind of trip. My buddy brought his fly rod. Unfortutately  all the high lakes along the way were fish-free and the single stream caught fish wasn’t enough fun to justify bringing the flyrod. I’m glad I wasn’t carrying mine. See http://estes.on-line.com/rmnp/reports/paradise.html   for the story. Ron

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

I actually carry live trout with me, in addition to the fry pan and grill top. I keep the trout right next to my sled-mounted .308. -Paul John Paul Minda Dept of Psychology University at Buffalo http://wings.buffalo.edu/~minda

Response:

for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what?

Easy.  Pot lids.  Works fine.  No extra weight. They don’t hold the 5.5 lbs ones in one piece, but you learn to make do.

Response:

Paul, I don’t think that is balanced correctly.  I think if you put a .223 with a high capacity magazine opposite and put the trout in the middle, it will balance much better. I have heard, from a reliable source, that this is the way to do it. Chris It is amazing the things you learn here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this? I actually carry live trout with me, in addition to the fry pan and grill top. I keep the trout right next to my sled-mounted .308. -Paul John Paul Minda Dept of Psychology University at Buffalo http://wings.buffalo.edu/~minda

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks

You will probably troll better in rec.outdoors.fishing or one of the other fishing groups, either in that group or as a cross-post. But cross-post carefully. I just eat fish.  Like Muir, I find the act of fishing boring. Slurp.

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish? Yes  (Of course ALL of us are backpackers and we do nothing else)

I HOPE you either eat them, release them or feed the bears with them. NRA Life Member No

Yes. — Ski Abineau!

Where’s that? Do they have sled trails too?

Response:

OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks NRA Life Member

Response:

OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks

There are a myriad of ways to cook fresh trout, and all of them are wonderful.  For details, I highly recommend Rick Greenspan’s "Backpacking: A Hedonist’s Guide." Sadly, it’s out of print, but your local library might have it. Gerald

Response:

I HOPE you either eat them, release them or feed the bears with them.

‘Guess I’m missing your point…what else would you do with them? Generally, I prefer to eat them vs. catch-n-release.  It depends upon where you’re fishing, with whom your fishing with and how many other fish you’ve caught, limits, Blue Ribbon Fishing Waters, etc. NRA Life Member No Yes.

Not all gun owners/hunters are NRA members.  We lived off of elk chili in college and my Red Chili dove enchiladas are muy bueno (quail and pheasant have been substituted at times). — Ski Abineau! Where’s that? Do they have sled trails too?

Sorry, the "chutes" are located well within the Kachina Peaks Wilderness, but there is the "Waterline Road" which is gerrymandered into the Wilderness area (so the City can drive up the road and check on their water pipes).  A nice mtn. bike ride on the road.  When there’s snow, the Flagstaff area is quite popular with the ‘bilers, (N. Rim of GC too). — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

Response:

Is there any other reason to backpack than to get to out of the way trout water?

Climbing. Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

I like it.

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks

Done mean fish for trout or catch trout? I’m pretty good at the first and just OK at the second. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

: How many of you backpackers trout : fish? If I get some responses to this : I have more questions.Thanks Sure. Makes a great way to pass the time when you’re too tired to walk anymore. : NRA Life Member Ron NRA Life too

Response:

I canoe camp, not backpack.  Yes, I flail for trout (recently took it up, it’s not a pretty sight.  But the trout don’t mind.  They just swim in the same spot in the stream and ignore me.). If I were in a survival situation, the last thing I’d be doing is fishing with a line.  Nets.  Nets and weirs.  Just thought I’d drop that in to possibly start a new line dipped and see if I can catch anything bigger and more easily… How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks NRA Life Member

—– rbc: vixen  (somewhat harmless) 0-0:  The artist formerly known as something else. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

I do I do!!!!!!!

Response:

Is there any other reason to backpack than to get to out of the way trout water? Fishing is a very nice compliment to backpacking, not to mention you have an extra food source. Fishing is my second most favorite activity. Steve NRA and CCW Devotee Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish?

Yes  (Of course ALL of us are backpackers and we do nothing else) NRA Life Member

No — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks NRA Life Member

Response:

Question:

Please give me the www adress of cabelas Ger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mu, I ordered my Special Flyfishing Catalog from Cabelas.  However, it takes 7-10 day.  I have not yet received it.  I’m hoping I’ll get it soon. Thaks for the info.  I’ll look in the catalog when it comes. Vern In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.10001211404380.1615- Good neck hackle is $25 at my local flyshop.=A0 Where can I get the stuff I need for a cheap price? =20 Vern, if you have specific flies in mind, then you can get Hoffman 100 packs for about $14 (did you get the Cabelas fly fishing catalog yet?). Basically you get about enough hackle to tie 100 flies from a neck that (had it been whole) would have cost way more than $25.  Still, in the long run if you know you are going to tie many hundreds of flies, buying the $85 neck would make more sense. Mu. —   Vern  ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/ Before you buy.

Response:

Mu, I ordered my Special Flyfishing Catalog from Cabelas.  However, it takes 7-10 day.  I have not yet received it.  I’m hoping I’ll get it soon. Thaks for the info.  I’ll look in the catalog when it comes. Vern In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.10001211404380.1615- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good neck hackle is $25 at my local flyshop.=A0 Where can I get the stuff I need for a cheap price? =20 Vern, if you have specific flies in mind, then you can get Hoffman 100 packs for about $14 (did you get the Cabelas fly fishing catalog yet?). Basically you get about enough hackle to tie 100 flies from a neck that (had it been whole) would have cost way more than $25.  Still, in the long run if you know you are going to tie many hundreds of flies, buying the $85 neck would make more sense. Mu.

–   Vern  ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/ Before you buy.

Response:

Please give me the www adress of cabelas Ger

I already did.  It’s www.cabelas.com Do you want me to give it you you again. www.cabelas.com Vern Before you buy.

Response:

The 100 packs are from saddles, not necks. They are "sized", namely they are marked with a hook size, 12-14-16-18. Cabelas does not carry the 20’s, but I have seen them somewhere else.  I just bought a "18", 1/2 of the feathers are 18’s , 1/2 are 16’s. As 1/4 saddles go for about $20, perhaps they are a better value, but they are sized "small" or "large". In general, Hoffman saddles contain 2 sizes.  For a beginner, a cape might be better. There are no good capes for 20 $ or less (regular price), however 1/2 capes might be available. Collins grade 3 capes are around 25 $, they are not as good as Hoffman, but they are not bad either, I like them better than Metz, and they come with a saddle which might be stiff enough for dry fly use on large flies (I haven’t tried it, but my grizzly saddle looks damn fine). I am not sure that buying the top of the line hackle is a great idea for a beginner, it is true that the feather count on a Whitings Gold makes it a great value, but one tends to waste a few feathers at the beginning of a fly tying career… -vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good neck hackle is $25 at my local flyshop.  Where can I get the stuff I need for a cheap price? Vern, if you have specific flies in mind, then you can get Hoffman 100 packs for about $14 (did you get the Cabelas fly fishing catalog yet?). Basically you get about enough hackle to tie 100 flies from a neck that (had it been whole) would have cost way more than $25.  Still, in the long run if you know you are going to tie many hundreds of flies, buying the $85 neck would make more sense. Mu.

Response:

Yes, that’s the one www.cabelas.com www.cabelas.com www.cabelas.com www.cabelas.com

– Vern — Vern Before you buy.

Response:

says… Please give me the www adress of cabelas Ger

http://www.cabelas,com {easy guys I was just answering the question} a hopess addict and budding gear whore. — Michael Era

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – % % % % % I don’t know, but if this guy % is for real……he scares me!!!! % % This is the strait scoop.  Theres % nothing to be scared of unless your a % smartmouth like that stooge guy Moe. % % % Me, too!  Strangely, I’m reminded % of the thread from late % Summer/early Fall that dealt % with stories of sabotage, flattened % tires and other acts against fisher % people…  hmmmmmmmmmmmmm! % % I dont know nothin about that % stuff.  I just started posting % here.   I know % about guys who got their tires % slashed when they fished here in NY on them % Indian reservations.   You gotta % watch out for some of them jamokes when %they % go on the warpath.  I could tell % you stories but I dont got the time now. %The % little lady is already bitchin % cause Im running the computer instead of %helping % with her dishes. % % MEOW!!!! % % Tony G. % % % -tran % Oakland, CA % % % % % % % % THIS POSTED IN ALT.FAN.KARL-MALDEN.NOSE, %ALT.ALIEN.VAMPIRE.FLONK.FLONK.FLONK, % REC.OUTDOORS.FISHING.FLY  REC.OUTDOORS % FISHING.BASS, ALT.FISHING % % BOYCOTT THE COLEMAN STORE FOR CENSHORSHIP % www.rochesterweb.com/colemans % a.f.k-m.n.n (newbie)number of 2. % THIS POSTED IN ALT.FAN.KARL-MALDEN.NOSE, %ALT.ALIEN.VAMPIRE.FLONK.FLONK.FLONK, % REC.OUTDOORS.FISHING.FLY % REC.OUTDOORS FISHING.BASS, ALT.FISHING % % BOYCOTT THE COLEMAN STORE FOR CENSHORSHIP % www.rochesterweb.com/colemans % a.f.k-m.n.n (newbie)number of 2. % %PROBLEM THE FIRST: Adding "Subject" %to the subject header %is stupid and redundant and %fucks up the way that many %newsreaders, including Mozilla %and Agent, display threads. % %PROBLEM THE SECOND: You did not %x-post this to AFKMN, or %for that matter anywhere else, %and especially not any of %the groups that you list. In %fact, all of the people you %replied too will likely never %see your posts for this %reason. (You will note that %this has been corrected, %and I even added alt.flame %to the headers, because I %felt like flaming a newbie %anyway. You’re welcome.) % %PROBLEM THE THIRD: We (TINW) %do not issue "newbie %numbers". I don’t know who %told you that, and whoever %it is is probably going to be %really pissed that I ruined %the joke, but that’s the truth. % %PROBLEM THE FOURTH: Your grammar sucks. % %PROBLEM THE FIFTH: You make no %attempt at making anything %even vaguely resembling UPA. %This of course makes me %wonder why you are here in %the first place, unless of %course you are one of those %stupid newbie me-tooers that %have been plaguing us recently. %Which is in fact very %likely. % %PROBLEM THE SIXTH: You posted %your sig twice. Way to %go, dipshit. % %PROBLEM THE SEVENTH: You suck. % %CONCLUSION: I’d plonk you, but %I’m actually vaguely %interested as to how you react to this. % %– %mhm37×4                   crisis at quackquack dot com % %"They call them ‘bouncing %baby boys’, but they don’t really %bounce. They just sort of go ‘plop’." % %      -Bruce McCulloch % %Mr. Crisis; % %I dont got a lot of time to post %this morning.  I got up late and I gotta open %the shop up for the boys in a few minutes. % %I wrote Mr. Crisis cause I dont know %if your a guy or a girl from your name but %Im guessing your a guy.   If Im wrong %I figger you’ll let me know. % %I know Im a newbie and I figger %like most places this is some kind of %initation.  Im cool with that.  So %Im not gonna get insulting back at you %because that probably wouldnt be %the Meow way and Im trying to be a good Meower %now.  I hope I pass the initation. % %Ive been reading the Nose for weeks %now and I dont remeber seeing too much from %you before.  Your probably one of %them lower rankin Meowers that they use for %the initations.  Your not one of the %big time Meowers like Medcial Catastrophy. % Thats ok because you still rank higher %than me.  Its like us guys at the %volunteer fire dept all got different ranks. % %It dont always got anything to do %with how long you been somewhere neither.   I %been with the fire dept for 12 years %now but I take orders from the guy whose %Captain even though hes only been there %6 years and Im bigger than he is and I %could kick his behind if I wanted to. %   I figger its somethin like that. % %Im doing good as a mewoer so far. %Ive got all kinds of guys pissed off in all %them fishin groups and there talking %about ratting on me to compuserv and me %losing my account with compuserv. %Dont you people call that netpolice?  They %dont want me posting there because %they dont want to here nothing bad about the %fishing and the guys lifting and %snaggin the fish all the tiem. % %Before I go I wanted to talk about %some of them problems you mentioned.  Thanks %for posting to all those groups all %at once for me.   With this compuserv crap %I cant crosspost nothin.   The reason %for stuff being in my posts twice is %because Ive been copying and then %pasting all these posts to new posts and then %posting to each group individually. %It sure takes a lot of time and thats why %I dont have a lot of time to respond today. % %As far as them newbie numbers I got. %I got 3133T from Medical Catastrophy and %the other one I got from Scott Johnson. %I dont know what the Meow policy is on %them numbers but I figger that Medical % Catastrophy knows what hes talkin about. % Youll have to take it up with him. %Hes like your boss right? % %PS  Whats UPA?   I cant talk intelligent %about it if I dont know what it is. % %PPS   I know my writing sucks but %its better than it used to be.  Im trying but %its hard.  Its always been hard.   The %penguins were always making me stay %after school as a kid at the Catholic %school there.  I want to be a writer %though so I can write good stuff %about the storys my dad used to tell me about %WW2 and Toe Joe and Hero Hito. % %Ill see ya.  Thanks again. % %MEOW!!!!! % %Tony G.  3133T This troll.  It is simply too obvious. I will not respond to it. hey toneyg im liek teh lowest rankeing dued here next to loerd corkscrewbutt so yuo can litsen to me but be suer not to copey anytheing i do or respeong to me or yuoll be immeddieatetly gieven a vrey low mewo rank henvieng said thet i hace to respecteufleley disagree weth teh

Question:

Hi all, lost the ‘alt.flyfishing’ newsgroup and when trying to add it again, it was removed again. Is it still there or has it been terminated for lack of interest? Bert

Response:

I guess it t-boned.. (to t-bone: to disappear abruptly, only to reappear even more unexpectantly) OBROFF: I’ll be leaving on holidays in only tree days from now, staying almost on the banks of the biggest reservoir in the Netherlands (Veerse Meer). Any tips on patterns still welcome.. Hi all, lost the ‘alt.flyfishing’ newsgroup and when trying to add it again, it was removed again. Is it still there or has it been terminated for lack of interest? Bert

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Hi Herman something Have a good time my friend Cheers Hans – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess it t-boned.. (to t-bone: to disappear abruptly, only to reappear even more unexpectantly) OBROFF: I’ll be leaving on holidays in only tree days from now, staying almost on the banks of the biggest reservoir in the Netherlands (Veerse Meer). Any tips on patterns still welcome.. Hi all, lost the ‘alt.flyfishing’ newsgroup and when trying to add it again, it was removed again. Is it still there or has it been terminated for lack of interest? Bert — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

It’s there and it’s profound as hell. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

It’s there and it’s profound as hell. Silence *is* profound I suppose<g.

If a newsgroup fails and there’s no one there to hear it does it still make a sound? …you bet it would….if it landed on top of your head, your head, if it landed on top of your heeeeaaaaadddd… Sorry, violent cartoon flashbacks, disregard,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

No, no, you can’t do that! The verb t-bone has already been defined…

Yep. From the _Chicago Tribune_ Thursday July 8, 1999. Quotables "It takes intense concentration just to stay in my lane. And when you’re covering a mile every five seconds, you just hope that security has cleared the course so you don’t T-bone some Winnebago that’s out there." -Race driver Craig Breedlove who has set five world land-speed records and plans to try to break the 760 m.p.h. sound barrier in September in Nevada’s Black Rock Desert. Sorry, Tim, but the verb T-bone hasn’t made the OED… yet. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

It’s there and it’s profound as hell.

LOL! Good one, TBone. In the last 30 days there have been 63 threads started on alt.flyfishing. 48 of them never received even a single response from anyone (probably because most of them are advertisements. Leaving 15 threads with actual followups – mostly 1 or 2, a few between 3 and  5. Mostly pure beginner stuff, mostly going unanswered. I didn’t count the cross-posted troll from the alt.romath group with the 410 followups… It took me a while to find the "profound as hell" thread, but here it is in case anyone else missed it. Not easy. Not easy.

But methaphoric as hell. "Methaphoric"?  Whoa – you’re right, TBone. That’s profound as hell… /daytripper (killing time waiting for a compile to finish)

Response:

[snipped] Gov. Johnson was quoted as saying something close to (as close as my memory can get me), "I was skiing down the slope, and the next thing I knew, I got t-boned by this kid". Anyways, this definition probably has its uses on ROFF as well

Given TBone’s predilection for gay references, the verb form must only apply when struck from behind. /daytripper ;^)

Response:

Question:

Hi Folks, after all the e-mails enquiring as to my reasons for ceasing to subscribe

Gentlemen and Ladies, I am moved by the loss of the best among us. I have filed Mike’s post in a place where I’ll be able to find it next time I feel like launching a salvo. Hope we can all do the same. sniff…..

Response:

I have simply made a personal decision not to subscribe.

Good to see your byline again, Mike, even if for the last time.  best wishes….. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Mike Connor wrote [final farewell snipped] Huge loss for ROFF.  I’ll miss your wit Mike.

Response:

Mike Connor Honi soit qui mal y pense.

George Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

Hi Folks, after all the e-mails enquiring as to my reasons for ceasing to subscribe to the news groups generally and ROFF specifically, and although I was of the opinion that I had made my reasons quite clear, here they are once again. The subject is now closed for me. I will not answer any further e-mails on this subject, it would serve no useful purpose. E-mails to the various websites or bulletin boards to which I contribute are also a waste of time, as I will not discuss the matter further. I would be most obliged if you would consider this, especially in the chat rooms where I am on line, nobody is interested in the matter, and it just wastes time and annoys people. I will also not join in discussions denigrating ROFF, or any of its contributors under any circumstances whatsoever. If you have a problem with somebody on ROFF then talk to them or take it to e-mail with the people concerned, I have no interest in the matter. I have no personal axe to grind as far as ROFF is concerned, I still think ROFF is basically  great actually, I have simply made a personal decision not to subscribe. The reasons are listed in order of importance, just in case anybody wants to know exactly, as it appears quite a few do. 1.  I cannot afford to pay for the downloading of large amounts of spam. This is purely  a financial criteria, and is by far the most important one. Without attempting to define spam, I mean anything which may generally be described as crap, be it multiple senseless posts, or direct commercial misuse of usenet. This simply costs me a lot of money which I do not have in amounts sufficient to waste on this nonsense. Before anybody else sends me tips for saving money on usenet, do me and yourself a favour, forget it. Most of the ideas are not practicable, and as I pay metered rates for on line time, sometimes not even possible. 2. I see no point in allowing myself to be insulted or provoked by people whose main interest in life seems to be annoying or upsetting  as many people as they can in the shortest possible time. Especially when it is just nasty and not even remotely amusing. This runs contrary to the spirit of the newsgroup, and continuing to pay out good money for this sort of thing would mean I would have to have a screw loose, this is fortunately not the case. 3. I am my own man, I do what I do, say what I say, and think what I think, I do not like it much when people attribute my words or actions to reasons they have dreamed up themselves, and attempt to prove their invariably faulty conclusions in print on a public forum. I am nobodies sycophant. I also resent it deeply when people make stupid or annoying or simply false statements based on posts I or others have made, where it is perfectly obvious that they have either not read the posts properly or are lacking the wherewithal to understand them. 4.  The informational and amusement content of the newsgroups seems to be deteriorating in direct proportion to the amount of ill mannered and ignorant persons subscribing to them. I would tend to avoid such people in private life, ( the "bar" analogy ), and see no reason why I should not follow this eminently sensible policy elsewhere also. 5.  There are too many people who want to control all sorts of things, up to and including what other people may or may not post. Usenet is in my opinion one of the last bastions of true free speech, to those who can not accept this, or attempt continually to misuse it, I can only say you are not ready for freedom of speech.  Freedom of speech allows you to say what you like when you like to whoever you like, like many great things it should be exercised with manners and self-control if it is not to degenerate into a senseless insulting free for all, even more so on a relatively  anoymous medium like usenet.  If some of the things said on here in the past were indeed said in a bar, then the people responsible would certainly be looking for a new set of teeth at the very least, and a good thing too. Unfortunately as I am unable to come into even remote striking distance of the aforementioned dental accoutrements, I find it better to remove myself from the sphere of influence, whether a bar or usenet is immaterial. 6.  I was indeed extremely angry at the amount of direct e-mail spam I received as a result of the ill considered efforts of one ROFF contributor in distributing my e-mail address to commercial spammers. I am prepared to accept that this was a mistake, the person concerned apologised profusely and sincerely,and I am no longer angry at him.  This was not my main reason for leaving the group, just an extra annoyance. 7. I was ever more dismayed at the number of trolls obviously designed to get a rise out of somebody or provoke a useless argument, which turned nasty fairly quickly, I see no point in this, and I imagine it is just some perverse form of entertainment, in which only perverts would indulge, especially in view of the anonymous nature of the whole thing. Purposely pissing off someone you dont even know for enjoyment strikes me as being perverse in the  extreme, and I prefer to keep my distance in such cases. 8. The comment from many  posters that anybody who posts in public forums should expect to be insulted and must develop a thick skin is in my opinion a symptom of their own perversity and lack of manners. I expect to be treated at least with good manners. When this is not the case I have several options usually. In this particular case, retiring from the field is probably the most sensible. 9.  I was of the opinion that groups such as ROFF provided a service and source of information on the subject at hand, and everything even remotely related to it. I attempted to subcribe in this spirit, as I assume most others also do.  This attempt met  with far more negative criticism and insulting responses than I would have hoped it might, and this was extremely disappointing. This also contributed to my decision to leave. I hope this clears up any wierd ideas, misconceptions, or even downright lies as to why I no longer subscribe, and that the subject is now definitely closed. I welcome personal and private e-mail on any and every subject under the sun, and I am happy to help anybody at all if it lies within my power, however as I already said on at least one other occasion, enquiries which start with the words "How do I start fly-fishing" or similar all embracing questions are beyond my power to answer in a couple of e-mails, and anybody who thinks he can become a good flyfisherman by studying a potted set of answers from one person, or even a group of people, or watching videos etc, ought to take up tennis, or bowling or something similar. The only way to become a good flyfisherman is to go and do it, read as much as you can, talk to as many flyfishers as you can, and try out what they say, advice on specific problems will always be available. One of the greatest attractions of flyfishing is the fact that however much you learn, and however good you become, there is always something new to learn, the possibilities and facets are infinite.  Flyfishing is not just a hobby like embroidering cushion covers, or weaving carpets, as a way of killing time, it is a philosophy, a religion, a way of life. It is hard work all the way, but absolutely fascinating, entrancing and enslaving. Thanks again for all your e-mails, I am surprised ( and of course pleased ! ) that my leaving a forum like this could generate such a furore which lasts such a long time. I obviously made a positive and pleasant impact on at least some of you, as indeed many of you did on myself. It is very pleasant to get such support and encouragement mostly from people I have never met , and probably never will, I met some lovely people on the groups, I enjoyed myself, and I learned an awful lot, but I will not return to any of the newsgroups, if only to prove some of the ignorant and insulting people  wrong who e-mailed me telling me what a pompous over educated ( If only they knew !!! )ass I am, and that I would doubtless return at some point. I would not like to give such people the satisfaction of being right, even if I got usenet access for free ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor Honi soit qui mal y pense.

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Question:

I can’t take credit for this bit of wisdom, I read it somwhere. But I live by it. " The fishing is always good, it’s the catching that is sometimes bad." Tim Apple

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This is an article which was rejected by several magazines etc, after they had specifically requested it. I think the tone of the article upset a few people on the editorial staff. I thought perhaps a few ROFFIANS might enjoy it. When is the best time to go fishing ? I get lots of questions from people at my classes and elsewhere about  when is the best time to go fishing.  They often tell me they have read lots of books, watched films, listened to experts etc, which advise certain times of the day, certain periods of the moon, certain combinations of weather, cloud cover, rain, sunshine, etc etc etc. Many people take careful temperature measurements of the water, air etc, and presumably decide not to fish if these are not within certain ranges, others even measure oxygen content or Ph  values as well, to aid their deliberations. This method has the decided secondary advantage that if you dont catch anything  you are then able to justify this failure with a lot of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook  guaranteed to have any normal person reeling with admiration for your angling knowledge and general perspicacity, this is in fact sometimes far more impressive than actually presenting a large well conditioned fish ! The fish in the Photo below was caught by my next door neighbour the first time in his life he went fishing. This memorable event occurred exactly two weeks after  our moving into our present house, and after we had spent four hours on the lawn at the back teaching him to cast. When we arrived at the water conditions were impossible, several anglers we met on the water told us quite emphatically that we were wasting out time, and that catching Pike on flies in this water was impossible anyway as there were too many bait fish and the fish were sated, and anyway there were only small jacks in  etc etc etc,  My neighbour got quite depressed with all this well meant information, and was rather surprised to see me blithely ignoring it. We commenced fishing and on his third cast he connected with the fish in the picture. After a raging battle which I will not bother going into now, where he nearly went overboard a couple of times, nearly strangled himself on the anchor rope, and nearly had a heart attack the first time he saw the fish

Question:

writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those?

Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Bill

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writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards,

– Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

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A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

One of my local small stillwaters comprises several ponds, the main one has produced a Welsh record trout of over 24 lbs.  Ther is also a beginners fly pond, also an any method pond for children and non fly- fishermen.  One day, on arriving at the lodge, I was told that the "main" pond was full (max. number of anglers), so I asked if I could go on the beginners pond.  The fish here are averaging around 3/4 lbs.  I had a great afternoon’s sport, landing six, but missed about five others, and all the fish caught were decent plate sized trout. The above is a sort of example of your suggestion. Regards, — Bill

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Indeed.  My husband and I search out the small, native and generally less accessible waters in the NC mountains.  We particularly like to fish to the small native brook trout population with a fly my best friend has dubbed the "Energizer" (It keeps going & going much like the battery bunny of US commercials). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

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______ I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Mr. G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

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Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

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Peter: I have the same rod and use TT 6/7. 80 feet overhead cast and 50 feet roll cast are easily made with this combination. Because of the continuous taper of TT, delicate presentation is also easily done. If you need a floating line, I would recommend TT 6/7. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am new to fly-fishing.  I own a St. Croix Imperial 9′ 5/6 weight travel rod with a Colorado #2 Ross reel.  I wonder if my rod will work well with a 6WF line.  I am thinking about ordering the Cabela’s Prestige 6WF F/S VI (IPS = 6.5-7, with 10′ sinking tip) for shad fishing in California rivers.  I like to hear your opinion on this selection.  Please let me know if you would suggest another line or another setup for this purpose. I also wonder if I should begin learning fly-fishing with a 5 WF line or a 5 DT line.  I have seen a few postings here recommending novice caster learning on a DT line.  I wonder what the reasoning is behind it. BTW, I plan to do most of my fishing in Yosemite National Park. Thanks for all your help. Peter

– Shinji Unno                     Karaoke Party in Seattle, WA, USA? Also a steelhead fly fisher               http://www.sbkaraoke.com

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Hi, I am new to fly-fishing.  I own a St. Croix Imperial 9′ 5/6 weight travel rod with a Colorado #2 Ross reel.  I wonder if my rod will work well with a 6WF line.  I am thinking about ordering the Cabela’s Prestige 6WF F/S VI (IPS = 6.5-7, with 10′ sinking tip) for shad fishing in California rivers.  I like to hear your opinion on this selection.  Please let me know if you would suggest another line or another setup for this purpose. I also wonder if I should begin learning fly-fishing with a 5 WF line or a 5 DT line.  I have seen a few postings here recommending novice caster learning on a DT line.  I wonder what the reasoning is behind it.   BTW, I plan to do most of my fishing in Yosemite National Park. Thanks for all your help. Peter

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Question:

A friend of mine gave me a BlackBeauty fishing pole by South Bend). It’s a collapsible graphite fishing POLE (10ft).  I plan to let my two small kids (age 6 & 3) use it to fish for bream (bluegills) on a small pond (I will assist).  My questions are: 1) What type of line should I use (4lb mono, braid nylon, etc)? 2) How long should the line be? 3) What kind of lures can I use (dry flies,wet, poppers,worms)?         If dry flies, will the 4lb mono & the fly both float? 4) How do I cast it?  Do I just flip it or shoot it like a slingshot? Thanks, Jimmy Jimmy D. Geek Remove the "NOJUNKMAIL." to send me email

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend of mine gave me a BlackBeauty fishing pole by South Bend). It’s a collapsible graphite fishing POLE (10ft).  I plan to let my two small kids (age 6 & 3) use it to fish for bream (bluegills) on a small pond (I will assist).  My questions are: 1) What type of line should I use (4lb mono, braid nylon, etc)? 2) How long should the line be? 3) What kind of lures can I use (dry flies,wet, poppers,worms)?    If dry flies, will the 4lb mono & the fly both float? 4) How do I cast it?  Do I just flip it or shoot it like a slingshot?

For best results, tie about 7 or 8 feet of 4 to 6 lb. line on and put a small bobber about a foot from the end. Put on a #4 or 6 light wire hook and a split shot sinker a couple of inches above the hook. Use worms, crickets or whatever is available, even a small piece of bologna will work for bream, and let the kids master the simple method first. Then as they get older, you can introduce them to fly fishing .  To cast it, just hold the rod up high and swing the line out like a pendelum and drop it in the water. Mark http://members.aol.com/swaters1/index.html

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Question:

There are ways to get a Sage for cheaper than the normal price.  I got my 590 RPL+ for quite a bit less than retail and its the same rod, brand new, not a second and I love it.

Don’t keep us in suspense…. I’m looking for a RPL Rick

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You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

Exactly!  If Sage can’t send enough rods out the door, they’ll go to their distributors and lower the price.  In addition, your point is also an example of why the "price-setting" issue is legal.  As long as consumers have an opportunity to purchase other manufacturer’s similar goods (Orvis, Redington, etc), without fear that manufacturers are working in concert to keep prices high, the system (capitalism) will work.  I also think that many of us draw capitalism out to more than it truly is.  Your example shows only a possible by-product of capitalism.  The only inherent principle in capitalism is that of an economic system that allows for the private ownership of industry. My original intent with the first post was to show that, at least under the current laws, Sage’s (and others) policy on rod prices is legal. Federal Anti-Trust and price-fixing laws deal specifically with a group of manufacturers acting together to either restrict trade or keep prices high (or both).  What a single manufacturer does or doesn’t do with their products is, for the most part, entirely up to them and not currently addressed under law (as far as I know).  The moral or ethical considerations of a manufacturer’s policy is another thing entirely, and one that I probably agree with you on. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

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two of my favorite rods are a 3 an 5 wt. redington.  great action and the price is right ( for me).

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David, I have the model 490, 4 weight, Sage RPL+.  I’m not an experienced flyfisherman, and only have two other rods I’ve used extensively.  I started with a Wal-Mart special, moved up to the Sage, and also own an Orvis superfine 6 weight.  The Sage is stiffer, more powerful, and I fish it the most.  The Orvis flexes more easily and I have to force myself to wait longer between the backcast and forward cast to use it effectively. I would recommend you definitly try different rods and find one that suits your style or speed.  I can’t cast that far and still find that the majority of the fish I catch are within half my maximum range.   Look for a rod that you enjoy casting and you wouldn’t mind using all day. Good Luck. Ronny

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: I am thinking about trying a RPL+, and have recently been looking at : some of the spring catalogues for prices.  Does everyone charge list : price (or close to it) or is there someplace that offers at least some : discount?  There must be some entrepreneurs out there  who are willing : to take a little less to make a sale. Sage sets the price. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

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Smith) writes: : I am thinking about trying a RPL+, and have recently been looking at : some of the spring catalogues for prices.  Does everyone charge list : price (or close to it) or is there someplace that offers at least some : discount?  There must be some entrepreneurs out there  who are willing : to take a little less to make a sale. Sage sets the price.

Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent dealers would be illegal.

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I currently own several Sage SP rods and din’t even look twice at the new RPL+ rods when they came out.  I spent two weeks in Montana last October and my partner was fishing his brand new RPL+ 590-4.  I asked to cast it one day while we waited to load our drift boat, well the short story is that my wife is currently fishing with some darn nice Sage SP’s and I own two RPL+ series rods. 590-5 and 896-4, I have not been a big fan of four piece rods in the past, but I think you will find that these rods are amazingly easy to cast and shoot lots of line.   I kept my 390sp for my BWO & PMD fishing, but for most of my fishing the RPL+ is my new rod of choice. Cast one! Pask

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: Smith) writes:

: : Sage sets the price. : : Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool : that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land : one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest : a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent : dealers would be illegal. I talked to a guy at Dan Bailey’s who told me that Sage tells them what price they can sell the rod for.  As I did some looking around, I found that Bailey’s had the same price as everyone else.  You can check the sage website (http://www.sageflyfish.com/) to get the prices.  Prices are "suggested retail", but maybe if you undercut the price Sage might forget to supply the retailer the next year.  We’ve had a discussion about this before- I forget what the final upshot was. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -: Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool : that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land : one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest : a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent : dealers would be illegal. I talked to a guy at Dan Bailey’s who told me that Sage tells them what price they can sell the rod for.  As I did some looking around, I found that Bailey’s had the same price as everyone else.  You can check the sage website (http://www.sageflyfish.com/) to get the prices.  Prices are "suggested retail", but maybe if you undercut the price Sage might forget to supply the retailer the next year.

 I wonder if any lawyers at the Justice Department are flyfisherman or read this group. Mike Ray Atlatna, Ga Cashiers, NC  

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There are ways to get a Sage for cheaper than the normal price.  I got my 590 RPL+ for quite a bit less than retail and its the same rod, brand new, not a second and I love it.  If anyone was paying attention about 3 months ago I was trying to sell one for under retail but got no takers so I basically gave it to my fishing partner for Christmas.  

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Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent dealers would be illegal.

Michael Both "trust" and "price-fixing" refer to two or more parties acting in concert.  For example, if Sage and Orvis execs were to conference call and set a price for an indentical product (or very similar product), it would in all likelyhood be price-fixing and is illegal.  Similarly, if the same two companies were to attempt to organize their efforts in an attempt to dominate a market or industry, they are working in "trust," and is considered illegal.  The industrial giants of turn-of-the-century railroad and steel businesses come to mind. Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

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Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal

Its not illegal as long as the pricing philosophy is applied to all vendors.  This practice is less common than it used to be, but is not uncommon with "premium" products whose image is based in part on a fixed, high, price. I’m going way back now — but I beleive this one went to the Supreme Court in the 70s. It was a hair-care manufacturer.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

Capitalism is rule by those who own the capital i.e., by the shareholders of Sage and Orvis.  We also own capital which we can invest, and this gives birth to free markets.  Strictly speaking though, capitalism is not the rule of the market, the market is a product of capitalism. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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It’s ridiculous to call this price fixing.  Setting the price keeps Walmart and other big volume "businesses" from undercutting the price. It has been tried in the courts and found ok.     If you don’t like the price DON’T BUY IT!!!! An expensive fly rod is hardly an essential item.  They do cast better, but most any rod will cast better than the caster.  What’s sad is that the public can’t get enough of these expensive rods!  I’m sure that the materials, engineering, and demand are driving up the cost, but as long as people continue to be shell out the big bucks the manufacturers are not going to look for ways to cut costs.  I bet if someone came out with a rod with laser aligned guides people would buy it.  Americans just *have* to have the best.   Just my opinion, Rob Gregoire

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Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

AMEN!

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writes:  If you don’t like the price DON’T BUY IT!!!! An expensive fly rod is hardly an essential item.  They do cast better, but most any rod will cast better than the caster.  What’s sad is that the public can’t get enough of these expensive rods!  I’m sure that the materials, engineering, and demand are driving up the cost, but as long as people continue to be shell out the big bucks the manufacturers are not going to look for ways to cut costs.   Just my opinion, Rob Gregoire

Rob, thats the reason I’m trying to get one at less than MSR.

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My buddy and I both have a 590 RPL+ and I am amazed at the difference it has in the casting and overall sensitivity.  Seriously they are unlike any rod I’ve ever thrown.  It takes some getting used to the new feel it has, but now I won’t put it down for my other rods.  Besides I’m not a big fan of noodle rods and the RPL+ rods are nice and stiff but forgiving in the tip.  Plus you can’t beat the warranty.  I’d definitely recommend one.

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I am thinking about trying a RPL+, and have recently been looking at some of the spring catalogues for prices.  Does everyone charge list price (or close to it) or is there someplace that offers at least some discount?  There must be some entrepreneurs out there  who are willing to take a little less to make a sale. Atlanta, Georgia Cashiers, North Carolina

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Has anyone out there had any experience with the new SAGE RPL+ flyrods.  Although I will cast before buy, Im relatively new to flyfishing and would appreciate comments.

I have cast but never fished an RPL+.  It is a hell of a parking lot rod.  It’s fairly easy to cast a lot of line with a nice tight lope (even for a lousy caster like me.  It’s a very fast action rod.  Whether it will work as well on the water depends, I think, on what type of fishing you will be doing with it and what sort of action you prefer.  Logically, it would seem to be a better big fish rod (e.g. steelhead) where long casts amy be necessary than a spring creek brook trout rod. I casted the 8 wt. and while it was lots of fun in the lot, I generally like a some what slower rod (I prefered the Sage SP). Anyway, that’s my $.02. Andy

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Has anyone out there had any experience with the new SAGE RPL+ flyrods.  Although I will cast before buy, Im relatively new to flyfishing and would appreciate comments.

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