Question:

Can anyone give me some advice on a fly fishing life vest or personal floatation device? I’m interested in a model I can wear under my fishing vest when wading a river. I already purchased a standard vest, so hopefully the response isn’t to buy a vest with a floatation ballon built in (if they even manufacture something like that). What do people use when wading a river? Obviously, price isn’t really an issue… Thanks, Ryan

Response:

http://www.sospenders.com/models.html Look about halfway down the screen. I’d go with a manual (pull the lanyard) model. /daytripper (standard disclaimers apply) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone give me some advice on a fly fishing life vest or personal floatation device? I’m interested in a model I can wear under my fishing vest when wading a river. I already purchased a standard vest, so hopefully the response isn’t to buy a vest with a floatation ballon built in (if they even manufacture something like that). What do people use when wading a river? Obviously, price isn’t really an issue… Thanks, Ryan

Response:

Cabela’s and Pro Bass carry the Sospenders.  I got mine from Orvis a couple of years ago when the sold out at 50% off.  These things are great for tubing as you don’t even know they are on.  I think they have two sizes and the smaller is ok for most applications. DP

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me some advice on a fly fishing life vest or personal floatation device? I’m interested in a model I can wear under my fishing vest when wading a river. I already purchased a standard vest, so hopefully the response isn’t to buy a vest with a floatation ballon built in (if they even manufacture something like that). What do people use when wading a river? Obviously, price isn’t really an issue… Thanks, Ryan

Response:

Question:

The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding

Here’s an example from about two weeks ago.  I was fishing an unweighted wooly bugger.  Bass would not hit a swimming bugger.  All our hits came as we were distracted and had let our flies sink to the bottom.  Then as we lifted our rods to begin the backcast, that’s when the largemouth bass would strike.  I had noticed plenty of drake shucks floating around and when I got home read in Dick Pobst’s Trout Stream Insects (Orvis Streamside Guide form Lyons Press) to imitate the green drake nymph by lifting it from the bottom of slackwater.   Mu

Response:

Mu Young Lee wrote… Here’s an example from about two weeks ago.  I was fishing an unweighted wooly bugger.  Bass would not hit a swimming bugger.  All our hits came as we were distracted and had let our flies sink to the bottom.

Hey, that’s great news because I get easily distracted. Or at least that’s what my wife tells me. She was telling me that just last week while we were outside in the yard… Wait, what was I talking about? –Steve

Response:

One technique I can suggest to you that is just a small variation on the tight line system you’re trying out. No bobber required!! It is an up, down and across presentation. The same or similar terminal rig as you’re using with your tight line system. The difference is that you need to keep an almost tight line, instead of a tight one. It does require quite a bit of mending, line retrieval etc. to keep the flies along the bottom and still have some contact with them.  The takes are usually pretty apparent either visually or by feel. You do need to vary the amount of weight with each new area you fish. I like this technique for big heavy water, especially in water with good stonefly populations.

Sounds similar to what I intend to do on the weekend.  We’ll see what happens. I do too, but over a season, don’t you take more fish on a dry fished drag free? I think the same holds true for nymphs.

Yes, I just like to try different methods. Since you’re a good streamer fisherman and know that technique well, I’m sure you’ll get some fish on nymphs fished in the same manner. Personally, I’d like to watch you fish streamers. I’ve never had the chance to fish with someone or watch someone effectively fish streamers to stream trout. Don’t see many people flinging streamers in the Rockies. Willi

My wife and I are hoping to get to the Grand Canyon in 2 or 3 years, so unless in the meantime the Avs meet the Leafs in the playoffs, we may get our chance then. Peter

Response:

Despite the lack of hookups, one of the outcomes of the test, was the proof that we miss many strikes in typical bobber nymphing.  No way would I have detected some 20+ strikes in that water with a bobber. All true, however my tests are an attempt to challenge the conventional wisdom of nymphing, mainly ’cause it bores me to tears and I’m not very good at it (not necessarily in that order.)

Dead drifting nymphs in all its many variations, is the most effective and consistent way to catch trout in moving water, but it is not much fun if you’re doing it right unless you’re a madly possessed trout hunter. That’s why I do less and less of it, my mad possession is a thing of the distant past. Dead drifting nymphs requires alot of physical work, terminal tackle changing, concentration, etc. etc. etc. and because I do less and less of it, I’m not as good at it as I used to be. One technique I can suggest to you that is just a small variation on the tight line system you’re trying out. No bobber required!! It is an up, down and across presentation. The same or similar terminal rig as you’re using with your tight line system. The difference is that you need to keep an almost tight line, instead of a tight one. It does require quite a bit of mending, line retrieval etc. to keep the flies along the bottom and still have some contact with them.  The takes are usually pretty apparent either visually or by feel. You do need to vary the amount of weight with each new area you fish. I like this technique for big heavy water, especially in water with good stonefly populations. My test of swimming Hendricksons in slow water proved to me that fish also react quickly and aggressively to moving food even under conditions that enable them to get a good look at the imitation.  The taut line was no problem due to the aggressive take.  BTW, I frequently drag or skitter dries and pick up the odd fish, especially when it’s windy.

I do too, but over a season, don’t you take more fish on a dry fished drag free? I think the same holds true for nymphs. My test was conducted in some fairly heavy current and stained water so by rights, the fish should have been taking aggressively but I think the combo of a broadside presentation of a scud hook and taut line screwed me.  (The Hendricksons were mostly taken from behind.) Anyway, I still consider the test partially successful as it taught me a few things. Hoepfully on the weekend I’ll get a chance to try out the wobble nymphs on a typical streamer swing through the same water.  We’ll see what happens.

Since you’re a good streamer fisherman and know that technique well, I’m sure you’ll get some fish on nymphs fished in the same manner. Personally, I’d like to watch you fish streamers. I’ve never had the chance to fish with someone or watch someone effectively fish streamers to stream trout. Don’t see many people flinging streamers in the Rockies. Willi

Response:

As the nymph enters  she clamps down for probably two reasons, one she must be sure it’s  a nymph not debris, plus she has to kill it.  Nymphs can have  pretty good jaws, especially the big ones, and they can give a good nip.

Interesting, never occurred to me…. it does make you wonder what they think of the hook though, when they mouth it… So if I purposely design a mayfly nymph with the same characteristics of weight and eye placement, I should get the same wobble giving a reasonable facsimile of a swimming nymph.

I’ve seen video footage of nymphs tied in this manner moving in the water, and the wobbling action does look impressive.  Another thing you can do is check into the nymph hooks that have split wire near the eye that create a wide flat body.  Example: www.flytying.com/FlyTying/hookbook/xPARTRIDGE_MASTER/partridgeH3S T.html I haven’t tried this yet, but you got me interested again! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

good post deleted. My experience is that with any tight line technique ( I assume you are talking about tight line technique and not a true dead drift one ), lots of fish are missed. Most of the fish you do hook, generally hook themselves. I also don’t find scud hooks as having the best hooking characteristics. That would explain quite a few misses but not 0 for 20 or 30. I think the main reason for the missed strikes is the presence of the tight line itself. Nymphs do not pull back and if they do, they are rejected quickly. This is ONE of the advantages to fishing a true dead drifted nymph.   The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding at etc., but I believe the biggest factor is the speed and type of water. In pockets water and the heavy flows at the heads of pools, the strikes are quick and sharp.  This makes it much easier to fool and hook the fish. Fly selection is usually not very important. These are the same waters that work well with attractor dries. In areas of more sedate current, the nymphs are usually taken in a patient, manner allowing the fish to scrutinize the fly. This can result in more bumps, refusals, rejections, etc. and more missed strikes, very similar to "fussy" fish on a dry. I think the comparison to fishing dries holds true in other ways. Usually dead drifted dries are more effective than flies with drag or motion. The same applies to nymphs. Most nymphs are taken when they are drifting with the current, not when they are swimming. Caddis and stoneflies are the most frequent exceptions because the nymphs can be active swimmers and the adults active on the surface. Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural. Willi

Response:

Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural.

Willi, I agree drag is unnatural, but I don’t think Peter’s example of "wobbling" is unnatural, do you?  He was talking about "swimming" nymphs, but when you think about a flat bodied nymph, I think these do it too.  Is something like a Hare’s Ear really the best imitation?  It’s basically tied "round" – i.e. no matter which angle the trout sees it from, it appears broad, as if it were always seeing the broad, flat side of a natural.  That might be why it works.  But tying it to be shaped like a natural might give it a little wobbling motion.  Seems good to me. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – good post deleted. My experience is that with any tight line technique ( I assume you are talking about tight line technique and not a true dead drift one ), lots of fish are missed. Most of the fish you do hook, generally hook themselves. I also don’t find scud hooks as having the best hooking characteristics. That would explain quite a few misses but not 0 for 20 or 30. I think the main reason for the missed strikes is the presence of the tight line itself. Nymphs do not pull back and if they do, they are rejected quickly. This is ONE of the advantages to fishing a true dead drifted nymph.  

My original post was supposed to have a few sentences that explained that I had built the leader, added weight and the bead head precisely to get as taut a line as possible.  I knew that the taut line contributed to the problem.  I wrote this Friday night at my bro-in-law’s after numerous beers so I plead guilty to TWI.   Despite the lack of hookups, one of the outcomes of the test, was the proof that we miss many strikes in typical bobber nymphing.  No way would I have detected some 20+ strikes in that water with a bobber. The way a fish takes a nymph has to do with a number of different things including what nymphs the fish are feeding on, the depth they’re feeding at etc., but I believe the biggest factor is the speed and type of water. In pockets water and the heavy flows at the heads of pools, the strikes are quick and sharp.  This makes it much easier to fool and hook the fish. Fly selection is usually not very important. These are the same waters that work well with attractor dries. In areas of more sedate current, the nymphs are usually taken in a patient, manner allowing the fish to scrutinize the fly. This can result in more bumps, refusals, rejections, etc. and more missed strikes, very similar to "fussy" fish on a dry.

All true, however my tests are an attempt to challenge the conventional wisdom of nymphing, mainly ’cause it bores me to tears and I’m not very good at it (not necessarily in that order.)  My test of swimming Hendricksons in slow water proved to me that fish also react quickly and aggressively to moving food even under conditions that enable them to get a good look at the imitation.  The taut line was no problem due to the aggressive take.  BTW, I frequently drag or skitter dries and pick up the odd fish, especially when it’s windy. My test was conducted in some fairly heavy current and stained water so by rights, the fish should have been taking aggressively but I think the combo of a broadside presentation of a scud hook and taut line screwed me.  (The Hendricksons were mostly taken from behind.) Anyway, I still consider the test partially successful as it taught me a few things. I think the comparison to fishing dries holds true in other ways. Usually dead drifted dries are more effective than flies with drag or motion. The same applies to nymphs. Most nymphs are taken when they are drifting with the current, not when they are swimming. Caddis and stoneflies are the most frequent exceptions because the nymphs can be active swimmers and the adults active on the surface. Although a dead drifted nymph or dry may lack the movement trigger to elicit a strike, it will never be seen as unnatural. Drag or motion on a dry or a nymph will often be seen by the trout as unnatural. Willi

Hoepfully on the weekend I’ll get a chance to try out the wobble nymphs on a typical streamer swing through the same water.  We’ll see what happens. Peter

Response:

Some time back I wrote a piece about straight-line nymphing and about how I had a phenomenal hit rate and an abysmal hookup rate.  I swear that in one run I must have had something like 20 for 0 or 30 for 0 strikes to hookups.  I had a method that would enable me to detect strikes but I couldn’t hookup worth a damn.  Talk about frustration so I’ve put the method aside.  Two things have occurred since that have set me to thinking about straight-line nymphing again; I read that post Sandy put out about soft-bodied nymphs and my failure with a crayfish design that wobbled like a Red Devil on the retrieve.  These two events have given me a clue into a new type of fishing that could prove very successful. (I hope.)  I’m in the middle of my northern NT trip and with nothing to do on the long trip to Timmins, so I’m doing my best to use the time productively <g to try and figure out why my straight-line nymphing was a failure.  I’m not a biologist and I’ve never talked to one about this so read the following with that proviso.  I’ve been trying to visualize how a trout takes a nymph. A trout resting in her lie doesn’t really have to work hard for dinner.  The whole process must be a relaxed affair compared to a bass chasing and inhaling a minnow.  As a nymph drifts toward the lie, she slides out and slightly opens her mouth.  As the nymph enters she clamps down for probably two reasons, one she must be sure it’s a nymph not debris, plus she has to kill it.  Nymphs can have pretty good jaws, especially the big ones, and they can give a good nip.  So she slides back into her lie with the nymph, chomps it once or twice more, runs it over her tongue as a final check, and only then swallows it.  This is the key to Sandy’s foam nymphs, as a hard nymph will be rejected as phony after a couple of chomps.  It also explains why I couldn’t get hookups.  I was fishing with a tungsten bead head caddis tied on a scud hook.  This hook has a thick wire, large gape and short shank plus the bead and the firmly wound body were rock hard. Straight-line nymphing will present the fly broadside to the trout. So when a trout took it, the hook point probably hit its lower jaw and the fly canted sideways, so when the trout clamped down, the hook point was outside of its mouth.  I’ve seen smallmouth take a slow moving woolly bugger the same way.  Plus, if I delayed the hookset, the trout would reject the hard nymph.  So if I’m to get a nymph to work on a straight-line swing, the point has to get inside the trout’s mouth.  That means a small gape, long shank, thin wire hook.  It would also help if the trout would take it like a streamer – with gusto. Mayfly nymphs come in three varieties, burrowing, clinging, and swimming.  Burrowing nymphs, like Hexes, favour soft, silty, slow moving sections of rivers and only become active in low light, dusk, or at night, consequently they don’t give us much opportunity to exploit except during emergence.  Clinging mayfly nymphs and most stoneflies crawl about rocks and only infrequently move in open water except when migrating to emerge.  When a clinging nymph wants to move and find a new feeding spot, they release their hold on a rock and allow themselves to be swept along in the current, swimming only a little.  These are the most common nymphs that we imitate when we dead drift.  Some species time their moves so that an entire section of a river has all of one species of nymph drifting at about the same time. An effective strategy for reducing casualties to marauding trout. These trout have very flat bodies and strong, thick legs suitable clinging to rocks.  The third type of nymphs however, are excellent swimmers with elegant, long, thin bodies and thin swimming legs. These mayflies swim with an arched back and an undulating side-to-side motion that wriggle nymphs unsuccessfully try to imitate.  Unlike clingers, these nymphs should be moved to be lifelike.  A down-and-across streamer swing with a few small strips should do the job. Recently, I tried swimming Hendrickson nymphs and I was pleasantly surprised with the aggression that trout displayed when taking them. No subtle takes this time and the hookup rate was very high.  So if I combine a good swimming nymph pattern with a swinging presentation, the results should be good.  Back to the crayfish pattern.  I had used a jig hook and had weighted the shank near the gape.  On the retrieve, the combination of the upraised eye and low set weight resulted in the fly flipping over and wobbling like an old Red Devil.  So if I purposely design a mayfly nymph with the same characteristics of weight and eye placement, I should get the same wobble giving a reasonable facsimile of a swimming nymph.  Well, wish me luck with it, as once I’ve got over the worst of the NT install, I’m going to tie up some and swing them through some Grand River runs.

Response:

Question:

I’m in with a variation of the wet McGinty my favorite bluegill fly.      Jim Robinson * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Frank Church writes:

(snip) This could get interesting.

The timing is a little off.  Fishing season starts next week (for me) in Maine for a month.  I won’t have time to tie, but I can come up with 12 flies (all of them catchers of trout) from my fly box.  They ain’t presentation flies, but they catch fish.  Count me in, Frank. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Count me in too, Frank.  Sounds like fun. I would appreciate a little info about how to use the fly as well, i.e. how to fish it, for what species, etc. Pat K

enough – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister.  

Response:

You touch a sensitive point here. Isn’t it remarkable that flies you intend to give away have to meet much higher standards than the flies you fish with? Suddenly the flies you put all your trust in at the water aren’t good enough to pass on to somebody else. So why not tie them ‘presentable’ in the first place? Same problem here.. I intend to tie CDC & Elk’s #14 for the swap, have plenty in my box, but I allready know I’ll tie 12 new, immaculate ones. Herman Frank Church writes: (snip) This could get interesting. The timing is a little off.  Fishing season starts next week (for me) in Maine for a month.  I won’t have time to tie, but I can come up with 12 flies (all of them catchers of trout) from my fly box.  They ain’t presentation flies, but they catch fish.  Count me in, Frank. Dave LaCourse

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

OK Ope, your in.  With Pat and Dave LaCourse, we have 9 now.  Stay tuned and we’ll see if we can get the minimum 12 (or more, why not?) Frank Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank, Count me in.  I don’t tie very well yet, but the flys I have tied, especially my nymphs, catch trout.  I’ll do my best to not disappoint the tie masters! Opie

Response:

OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister. Watch out for the whiners who don’t get Mike Connor’s flies–and be prepared to eat the postage costs –Steve

Screw the whiners, and those that send flies without postage..guess what…*I* get to keep their flies! Frank Church

Response:

It’s probably not a big deal to have "doubles" in the swap, ie: 2 guys tying the same flies, but it would be nice if everyone got a complete mix of flies.  So how about if those who want to join in the swap indicate to me on or off list what fly you intend to tie. When this thing jells (or not) next Thursday, I will publish a complete list of the tiers and what they intend to tie. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

I intend to tie  CDC & Elk’s #14 for the swap, have plenty in my box, but I allready know – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ll tie 12 new, immaculate ones. Herman

Response:

Count me in Frank, post the details at your convenience.                             Tom Littleton

Response:

OK Paul, you’re on the list. Frank Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am still a fairly new fly tier but this sound very interesting .  Please add my name to the list and let me know what happens.

Response:

Frank, Count me in.  I don’t tie very well yet, but the flys I have tied, especially my nymphs, catch trout.  I’ll do my best to not disappoint the tie masters! Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister. Watch out for the whiners who don’t get Mike Connor’s flies–and be prepared to eat the postage costs –Steve

Response:

Steve Z OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister. Watch out for the whiners who don’t get Mike Connor’s flies–and be prepared to eat the postage costs –Steve

Every time I tied on a MC fly in NC, I caught a trout.  Great ties.  I have found that if you complain, just a little, you won’t have to eat the postage costs. <g Dave,  regularly fed on "postage costs". d;0)

Response:

As mentioned in a previous post, I have participated in a few fly swaps a fly swap or two during the year?  Winter is a good time for most of us that live in cold country, and are probably at the tying bench anyway.  As a newbie flytyer, I found this a good way to acquire some really well tied flies, and moved me to get at the vise and tie, tie, tie. (read learn, learn, learn)  Several fly swaps, each with a different "swapmeister", say a warmwater swap, and one for trout.  The number of people signing up for a swap would determine how many flies you would tie, and you would receive the same number. How about some feedback folks, how many would be interested in participating in a venture of this nature? Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

Frank, Count me in. I hosted the last swap on ROFF, somewhere last year, and the number of participants was quite low compared to the number of regulars over here. Hope this one will be different. What _might_ work is a favourite simple fly swap? The thing you tie on when you haven’t got a clue what’s working, the ‘looks like shit but catches an uncanny amout of fish’fly, the ‘I can tie these with my eyes closed, a bottle of Lagavullin’ down the hatch and still outfish anyone’fly? Cheers, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As mentioned in a previous post, I have participated in a few fly swaps a fly swap or two during the year?  Winter is a good time for most of us that live in cold country, and are probably at the tying bench anyway.  As a newbie flytyer, I found this a good way to acquire some really well tied flies, and moved me to get at the vise and tie, tie, tie. (read learn, learn, learn)  Several fly swaps, each with a different "swapmeister", say a warmwater swap, and one for trout.  The number of people signing up for a swap would determine how many flies you would tie, and you would receive the same number. How about some feedback folks, how many would be interested in participating in a venture of this nature? Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

How about some feedback folks, how many would be interested in participating in a venture of this nature?

Count me in Frank.  I’d say let’s start asap, but I am still tying my donations to the western raffle.  Although a few more wouldn’t hurt. . . — Warren Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html Before you buy.

Response:

…What _might_ work is a favourite simple fly swap? The thing you tie on when you haven’t got a clue what’s working, the ‘looks like shit but catches an uncanny amout of fish’fly,…..

I happen to have one of those, Herman.  And I even have recent witnesses as to it’s efficacy.  Count me in.

Response:

Are you sure those witnesses weren’t influenced by the ‘recreational herbs’ as Ken put it? Herman …What _might_ work is a favourite simple fly swap? The thing you tie on when you haven’t got a clue what’s working, the ‘looks like shit but catches an uncanny amout of fish’fly,….. I happen to have one of those, Herman.  And I even have recent witnesses as to it’s efficacy.  Count me in.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Are you sure those witnesses weren’t influenced by the ‘recreational herbs’ as Ken put it?

Doesn’t matter, really.  Herbs are widely available; no reason we can’t repeat the recipe whenever needed.

Response:

Now you’re making me curious.. so this swap has to succeed, no matter what. We’re still talking about flies, right? Are you sure those witnesses weren’t influenced by the ‘recreational herbs’ as Ken put it? Doesn’t matter, really.  Herbs are widely available; no reason we can’t repeat the recipe whenever needed.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Now you’re making me curious.. so this swap has to succeed, no matter what. We’re still talking about flies, right?

Huh?  Flies?    :) O.K. Yes, we are talking about flies.  I was introduced to a pattern called a Pass Lake by the Malignant Dwarf many years ago.  Clipped mallard flank tail, fine black chenille for the body, a couple of turns of brown hackle swept back, and a white calf tail wing trude style.  This bug resembles nothing that ever lived in a stream or a lake and it has a perverse tendency to sink when you want it to float and vice versa.  Doesn’t matter much though because it consistently takes fish either way.  Trout and blue gills love it.  Herbs are optional, season to taste.

Response:

I’d be in for a "favorite" flyswap. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As mentioned in a previous post, I have participated in a few fly swaps a fly swap or two during the year?  Winter is a good time for most of us that live in cold country, and are probably at the tying bench anyway.  As a newbie flytyer, I found this a good way to acquire some really well tied flies, and moved me to get at the vise and tie, tie, tie. (read learn, learn, learn)  Several fly swaps, each with a different "swapmeister", say a warmwater swap, and one for trout.  The number of people signing up for a swap would determine how many flies you would tie, and you would receive the same number. How about some feedback folks, how many would be interested in participating in a venture of this nature? Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister.  This can be either warmwater or trout type flies (your choice)  For this thing to be worth the effort for everyone, not the least of which is *me*, we must get a MINIMUM of 12 swappers.  I will be on the road until Monday or Tuesday, so in the meantime you can decide if you want to participate.  Post your name to ROFF so we can all see who is in the swap.  So far, we have: Frank Church Herman Nijland Warren Findley Wolfie Willi Loehman newer tiers among us, you don’t have to be an "expert" at this (as I certainly am not)  just be willing to give it a shot. From past experience, a few rules will apply should this proposed swap actually come about____ 1.  We will set a deadline as to when I must receive all the flies. 2.  Send your flies in a container that is apt to survive the USPS. 3.  Include return postage with your offering, and I will mail your flies back to you in the      container which you originally shipped to me. 4.  Put a tag on the hook naming the fly, the tyer, and any other pertinent info.      (without this, the recipients will have to guess, you wouldn’t want that, would you?  :-) 5.  In my experience, 30 days is about enough time for everyone to get ‘em tied and back to me.     There are always one or two who wait to the last possible minute and are late getting the flies in,     so a grace period will be set, and only I will know that so you procrastinators need to take heed. That’s about it…..it would be nice to have a lot of participants, think about it. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

How many flies were we talking about here? Mu

Response:

I am still a fairly new fly tier but this sound very interesting .  Please add my name to the list and let me know what happens. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister.  This can be either warmwater or trout type flies (your choice)  For this thing to be worth the effort for everyone, not the least of which is *me*, we must get a MINIMUM of 12 swappers.  I will be on the road until Monday or Tuesday, so in the meantime you can decide if you want to participate.  Post your name to ROFF so we can all see who is in the swap.  So far, we have: Frank Church Herman Nijland Warren Findley Wolfie Willi Loehman newer tiers among us, you don’t have to be an "expert" at this (as I certainly am not)  just be willing to give it a shot. From past experience, a few rules will apply should this proposed swap actually come about____ 1.  We will set a deadline as to when I must receive all the flies. 2.  Send your flies in a container that is apt to survive the USPS. 3.  Include return postage with your offering, and I will mail your flies back to you in the      container which you originally shipped to me. 4.  Put a tag on the hook naming the fly, the tyer, and any other pertinent info.      (without this, the recipients will have to guess, you wouldn’t want that, would you?  :-) 5.  In my experience, 30 days is about enough time for everyone to get ‘em tied and back to me.     There are always one or two who wait to the last possible minute and are late getting the flies in,     so a grace period will be set, and only I will know that so you procrastinators need to take heed. That’s about it…..it would be nice to have a lot of participants, think about it. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

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OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister.

Watch out for the whiners who don’t get Mike Connor’s flies–and be prepared to eat the postage costs –Steve

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That depends on the number of participants.  With 12 participants, say, each one ties 12 (of the same) flies of their choice, mail them to me, then I will re-distribute the flies so everyone gets 12 different flies.  We will have to wait to see how many sign up.  I think the cut-off date for sign-up should be a week from now, 24 May.  Then we’ll know how many you have to tie. I want to stress that this is a "your favorite fly" swap,  so anything goes as far as what fly you choose to tie and submit.  This could get interesting. Frank Church Elkhart, IN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many flies were we talking about here? Mu

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Question:

Looking for web sites with current Colorado water flows for fly fishing streams.  Please email me the url’s of any sites that have this info.  Thanks

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http://www.dnr.state.co.us/water/flow/ Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for web sites with current Colorado water flows for fly fishing streams.  Please email me the url’s of any sites that have this info.  Thanks

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Question:

Does anybody know any good rivers to fish in this area?

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You might want to try going to the "GEOGRPHICAL LISTINGS" under "UNITED STATES" "TEXAS" at http://www.davisbrown.com/fflnk.html  The links may help you find a local info source.  Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody know any good rivers to fish in this area?

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Go to almost any flyshop in Texas and buy a copy of "Flyfishing the Texas Hill Country" got almost anything you need to know? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You might want to try going to the "GEOGRPHICAL LISTINGS" under "UNITED STATES" "TEXAS" at http://www.davisbrown.com/fflnk.html  The links may help you find a local info source.  Good luck. Does anybody know any good rivers to fish in this area?

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Nathan, you may also contact the Guadalupe River TU group at www.grtu.org. They have fishing reports and good info on the area. SAB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anybody know any good rivers to fish in [Central Texas]?

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Question:

I’m new to the group but has anyone ever posted pictures of flies to this NG?  Plus what was the feedback from the College Park, MD FF Show last Weekend?

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no pics in this group but maybe rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying — Jan Geert Meents, Munich, Germany | I’m new to the group but has anyone ever posted pictures of flies to this | NG?  Plus what was the feedback from the College Park, MD FF Show last | Weekend? | |

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I’m new to the group but has anyone ever posted pictures of flies to this NG?  Plus what was the feedback from the College Park, MD FF Show last Weekend?

don’t do it.   post to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing see you there ! TimW

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Question:

  Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know what flies are better during the different seasons.   I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be appreciated.                Thanks…Blayne

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ALL SEASON…U USE ANYTHING  U WANT..AND, I LL CATCH AND RELEASE MORE FISH….GOOD LUCK ANYWAY!!!  Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know   what flies are better during the different seasons.    I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be   appreciated.                 Thanks…Blayne

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 Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know what flies are better during the different seasons.  I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be appreciated.               Thanks…Blayne

Hi Blayne, I’m going to present an extremely short and generalized list on a large and complicated subject. Midges: All year Stoneflies: Spring Mayflies: Spring and Fall Caddisflies: Spring through Fall As the year progresses, fish progressively smaller flies. These are ideas that can and will be disputed, but as generalizations go, I think they each carry a kernel of truth. I hope this helps,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, California   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know what flies are better during the different seasons.  I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be appreciated.               Thanks…Blayne Hi Blayne, I’m going to present an extremely short and generalized list on a large and complicated subject. Midges: All year Stoneflies: Spring Mayflies: Spring and Fall Caddisflies: Spring through Fall As the year progresses, fish progressively smaller flies. These are ideas that can and will be disputed, but as generalizations go, I think they each carry a kernel of truth. I hope this helps,   Alan.

Hi Alan, Best stated short course I’ve seen. I hope you don’t mind if I reference it from time to time. Good job. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (new 96 catalog)

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Question:

On short _backpacking_ trips, I often like to carry in a bunch of good food….I really out did myself by overstuffing an expedition backpack for a three day trip.  

Of course, the best gourmet food isn’t that which is packed in.  On a backpack last August in the Holy Cross Wilderness, our first-night’s meal was cutthroat trout panfried with "scaly urchin" mushrooms.  Too bad it wasn’t berry season, or we would have had a fitting dessert for our wilderness-gathered meal. — /    "How to Lose Weight, Increase Your Sex Appeal and Make a Fortune on the   _][  Information Superhighway" would outsell the Bible, at least briefly.

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        I like using a combination of Freeze Dried Food, MREs,         homemade trail mix and lots of beef jerky flavored with         cyan pepper.         I like adding kool aid, gatorade, instant coffee General         International Foods coffee, and Milk man packets.         A lot of the items are repackaged to save on weight and size.         -Dave         AT&T Denver

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I’m a simple eating soul as well.  Oatmeal in the morn,…

I think basically most people who travel are this way.  It can vary with the required travel distances.  Usually, I go for simplicity, but a couple weekends ago I poached salmon while others dug snow caves, but that was a short ski in (note in winter you can afford to take frozen foods on short trips, etc.).  A favorite climbing partner of old was a great cook, and he could carry the weight to help. However, on longer trips, you would do best to read some of the experiences of some major expeditions and the importance of food and morale.  Read Snyder’s Hall of the Mountain King and the defending White Winds (comments about chili), locate accounts of the 1971 International Everest Expedition (all menu planning done by a vegetarian who brought in half a ton of a type of pumpernickle bread which only he would eat, and that was merely one food). The occasional elaborate meal is fine, but that’s not quite the purpose for being there.  If you want fine dining, stay in the big city. Remember, rule number 1 on a big, long trip: NEVER offend the camp cook.

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well since u asked heres my $0.02 worth- i usally hike with a guy who is a weight freak the lighter the better, our trips vary in length 2-14 days and take place in all seasons and all over the place, our favorite so far is the wind river range.  anyway im more of lesiurely kinda guy and prefer to take a bit more weight to enhance the atmosphere food wise.  so i always get tea and something good to eat in the morning, but im not below a pop tart as long as it’s toasted and the frosted kind, but lunches are a big deal so into the pack goes smoked, vacumed sealed salmon, smoked goda(sp?) chese, red onions, and bagels. dinners are alos good i mean its fun to laze around camp cooking up a storm after a good day hiking with some killer fly fishing thrown in, so we bring along freeze dried tortellini, spices, small 6oz cans of tamoto paste,  lentils, rice some other groovy things, lots of chocolate, and of course to top it all of as much single malt scotches that we can carry. oh my goodness i think im ready to hit the trail.  but anyway u light weighters or no hassle cooking folks should try the other route sometime cooking forces u to slow down and drink it all in.  u don’t have to cook or eat at camp, maybe next to a nearby lake/stream, or out on a cliff with a view then u split up the chores from night to night and the drugery isn’t so bad.  sorry for being so long winded.                                                    later,                  relax, don’t worry have a home brew!

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ENMfoods on short trips, etc.).  A favorite climbing partner of old was a ENMgreat cook, and he could carry the weight to help. On short _backpacking_ trips, I often like to carry in a bunch of good food (as long as it it doesn’t take too long to prepare–don’t want to cut into day hiking and swimming opportunities) and more than the usual assortment of luxury items and gadgets.  On one trip, about fifteen years ago, I really out did myself by overstuffing an expedition backpack for a three day trip.  My partners dubbed me "Piano Man" (as in piano mover) for my ability to haul all that weight up a mountain, and the name stuck.  Now, whenever I don a pack in their presence (even a day pack), I am immediately transformed into Piano Man.  Kinda like Clark Kent and his sky blue tights, I suppose. <G ENMThe occasional elaborate meal is fine, but that’s not quite the purpose ENMfor being there.  If you want fine dining, stay in the big city. I am reminded of the camp I past on the fifth morning of a Sierra trip.  There was a sprawling camp by the side of the trail with a new three-man tent in its center.  The campers were apparently still asleep, but I felt as though I had gotten to know them just the same: the pair of crystal wine glasses and the empty bottle perched on the edge of a large fire ring seemed as easy to read as any face. Gotta admit: there ain’t any restaurants in the big city with that kinda atmosphere. . . . ENMRemember, rule number 1 on a big, long trip: NEVER offend the camp cook. Even if he serves moose turd pie, right? <G —  * SLMR 2.1a * Visualize whirled peas.

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I’m a simple eating soul as well.  Oatmeal in the morn, 10 oz. of trail mix for snacking all day, four sailor boy flat biscuits and either peanut butter or cheese for lunch, and rice, noodles or potato based dinner with dried lentil, split pea, or black bean soup from the organic grocery, all melded together with parmesian and different strong spices.  On longer hikes I carry about 3 lbs per day of food, and for anything less than two weeks around 2 lbs.  

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I enjoy getting fancy at camp for dinner after a long strenuous day in the wilderness.  Part of the pleasure is the illusion of "invulnerability" while in the woods.  I have even been known to drag along some home brewed beer. (See "Beer in the woods…"  elsewhere in this conference.) OTOH, I belive breakfast should consist of boiling water for coffee and oatmeal, rinse the dishes and hit that trail before 9:00 am.                 And There is the Problem My wife’s idea of a pleasant vacation requires a leasurly four course breakfast, complete with lots of dishes.  While I’m chomping at the bit to get up the mountain before the temperature hits 90, she is just getting her pancake flipping technique down. — David M. Weaver    San Francisco State University   School of Business

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I’m a little more extreme than you, in that I no longer see any point in cooking.  I’d rather save the weight and not have to wash dishes and pots.

Now I’m curious!  What do you take for calories that lets save wieght and carry NO pots and pans?  Must be short trips. Have you been in the high altitude (10-14k) without serious carbos, protein, etc.? I spend 7-10 days in a place like the Wind River Range and if I don’t carry serious food I’m too week to hump it.  My pack usually starts out about 75lbs. and drops to about 60.  I do wish I could figure out a way to eat enough calories without having food take up 20% of pack weight.

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I like it both ways.  I bring a lot of powerbars & ramen for the trail and some good dishes for camp.  I eat so much it might as well be good.   I like dishes that are simple to fix and taste good (and to heck with the weight) A few favorites: Pasta with cheese and sun-dried tomatoes,

Yup, sun dried tomatos are fantastic.  I add them to the water right away then add the pasta, reice, lentils or whatever.  Add some spices and freeze dried vegies and you an make just about anything.  I’m not vehetarian, but I find the taste and texture of FD Tomatoss to be a very good meat substitute. Very highly recommended! Tortellini with pesto (get the fresh pasta and pesto at the supermarket, it’s easy as a TV dinner)

If you pack the sause in a nalgene the morning of the trip, you can lug it in. makes for a great first night dinner.  Good sauses are really hard to make from dry ingredients.  I’m always looking for good sauce recepies for the trail. Fried Rice with fresh fish

When you can catch’em<g. Pancakes  - Nothing like flipping cakes on a mountaintop all morning.

Generally, too fuel consuming, time wasting, but pure heaven!  If you try bringing a few eggs along they will really spiff up the cakes.  I like to make them extra thick and put orange pieces in them.  Cook very slow with butter.  Make big pot of coffee ahead of time, to while away the time.  Sometimes we even pack up early and get going so we can stop for the ultimate pancake breakfast.  Can make an high point to any trip. Grilled cheese sandwiches – yum! Regards, Kelly

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| This is a subject that I have always wanted to bring up. For me eating is | just something I do to fuel my body on the trail. I don’t make a big deal | out of it, the simpler the better. For breakfest I eat outmeal, snack on | GORP or powerbars through out the day and then usually have some rice and | ramen soup for dinner or a dehydrated meal in a bag. All my cooking | consists of boil water, add, wait a little then eat. If I am just going | for a overnighter or 2 night trip I sometimes just buy a couple of pizzas | wrap them up and snack on cold pizza all weekend. | I’m a little more extreme than you, in that I no longer see any point in cooking.  I’d rather save the weight and not have to wash dishes and pots.

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This is a subject that I have always wanted to bring up. For me eating is just something I do to fuel my body on the trail. I don’t make a big deal out of it, the simpler the better. For breakfest I eat outmeal, snack on GORP or powerbars through out the day and then usually have some rice and ramen soup for dinner or a dehydrated meal in a bag. All my cooking consists of boil water, add, wait a little then eat. If I am just going for a overnighter or 2 night trip I sometimes just buy a couple of pizzas wrap them up and snack on cold pizza all weekend. Now I have packed with ppl who basically eat just as well in the backcountry then they do at home. Different dishs everyday, spices galore, etc…. It amazes me sometimes. I just like to keep it simple and light, no extras needed. This is me, what aabout you? I am just curious of all the different how, what, whys etc. of others in this group. Sean (who would never bake a cake then make a cup of capachino (sp?) in the backcountry)

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Well, I’m with you on this one.  For me, the simpler the better, but I can see the benefits of bringing a gourmet along.  Generally, when I camp, I’m concerned with the weight of my food, and that’s it.  It’s not because I wouldn’t want to eat well, it’s just that I’m lazy.  Also, I guess that eating poorly appeals to my romantic vision of hiking/camping.  You know, roughing it.  Burning a hot dog on a stick seems more appropriate than breaking out the fois gras.  Seems stupid, huh?

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: This is a subject that I have always wanted to bring up. For me eating is : just something I do to fuel my body on the trail. I don’t make a big deal I am exactly the opposite:  I enjoy preparing elaborate meals on the trail. In part, this is because I’m from New Orleans.  Food is more than just fuel here, it’s a way of life.   Partly, it’s just the challenge of figuring out how to accomplish the seemingly impossible:  baking biscuits on a backpacking stove or producing a cheesecake in the deep woods. Another reason:  I’m a Scoutmaster, and much of my camping is done with Boy Scouts.  An essential element of the Scouting program is that the *boys* plan the outings, including the menus.  Left to their own devices, they would have pop-tarts for breakfast, candy bars for lunch, and canned spaghetti for dinner.  Being a strong believer in letting them run their own program, I don’t interfere when they plan their menus.  I *do*, however, try to set an example.  When they are eating their canned spaghetti, they are watching me enjoy my fruit salad, jerky stew, and fresh-baked biscuits.  I make enough to let them all have a taste, but not enough to feed them a meal.  On the *next* trip, guess what they want to eat? Another factor:  The areas where we camp have a tremendous supply of firewood, and it’s a lot easier to prepare an elaborate meal with a campfire than with a single-burner stove. — "In the old days, being crazy meant something.                I don’t speak  Nowdays, EVERYBODY’S crazy."                                 for Tulane.                             — Charles Manson

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Question:

Is it just me or is sea kayaking under going a rapid de-evolution ?    I can think of no other sport that is racing back to the future like it.   Skin boats,  thin wood paddles Greenland training techniques this stuff has been in use for 10,000 years .   Can any modern R.D dept. hope to come up with any thing that can withstand that test of time?

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Is it just me or is sea kayaking under going a rapid de-evolution ?    I can think of no other sport that is racing back to the future like it.   Skin boats,  thin wood paddles Greenland training techniques this stuff has been in use for 10,000 years .   Can any modern R.D dept. hope to come up with any thing that can withstand that test of time?

 I would’nt go so far as calling it a "de-evolution", the same thing happens with just about every sport out there – equipment becomes more and more sophisticated and technologicaly advanced. The original creation that started the whole process becomes lost to history. Just because I want to build a Baidarka doesnt mean I want to hold the rest of the world back – I just want something different – something that you just dont see very often, but is also recogizable as a part of past history – which is what makes it so fun. This is the reason I fly fish instead of using the latest in bait casting reels(but I use both), I also shoot a recurve bow(but I also own a compound), and I shoot black powder ( but I also have the most modern of arms). I’d be willing to bet that the modern R&D shops can and do design kayaks and canoes that are light years more efficient and durable than past boats, but evolution is the way of the world, and what better way to evolve than to look back to the past to plan for the future?

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Question:

: Does anyone know who makes Cabella Fish Eagle fly rods I was watching a video by Stu Apte on Saltwater Fly fishing and he mentioned in passing that Cabella’s rods were built by G Loomis. Any Confirmations? Rodney Singapore

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 This reel was almost certainly made by the Sth company in Argentina.  It was identical in design and even carried the same symbols but a different label. Cannot speak for the new reels included in packages except to say that the new cassette fly reel looks surprisingly like the Sth cassette reels (just a guess).  

Yes, this would make sense because STH makes Loomis reels and the head STH engineer Roberto Sacconi is a friend of Gary Loomis. Loomis claims to be a real believer in the STH system. Cal — Fishin Buddy  o <<     o  |           These opinions are offered by weight  <     <  o       <J           provocative content may have occurred      <<       <<                    during shipping and handling.

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J.Vogel) says: Does anyone know who makes Cabella Fish Eagle fly rods I think the conclusions reached on the net include the following: Cabela uses rod blanks from G. Loomis to manufacture its fly rods.  We never decided who actually makes the rods but seemed to agree that they are of good quality and reasonable for the $$. My own experience supports this claim.  The outfit that I have included the Fish Eagle II rod and an MCD reel.  This reel was almost certainly made by the Sth company in Argentina.  It was identical in design and even carried the same symbols but a different label. Cannot speak for the new reels included in packages except to say that the new cassette fly reel looks surprisingly like the Sth cassette reels (just a guess).  I believe you also asked a question about who makes the Cabelas reel (in another post)…this reply may answer that.  If you are asking about spinning reels, we have discussed this and never reached an answer. Hope this helps.  Scott Maitland

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