Question:

Path: lobby!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!new

sfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!hotmail. com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.bass, rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, rec.outdoors.rv-travel, rec.pets.birds, rec.pets.cats.anecdotes, rec.pets.cats.health+behav, rec.pets.dogs.behavior, rec.pets.dogs.breeds, rec.pets.dogs.health, rec.pets.herp, rec.photo.darkroom, rec.photo.digital, rec.photo.equipment.35mm, rec.ponds, rec.puzzles, rec.pyrotechnics, rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.equipment, rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.cb, rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.shortwave, rec.radio.swap, rec.roller-coaster, rec.running Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.180.10.166 CDT) Xref: lobby rec.outdoors.fishing.bass:94211 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:255581 rec.outdoors.rv-travel:293806 rec.pets.birds:232117 rec.pets.cats.anecdotes:78842 rec.pets.cats.health+behav:208154 rec.pets.dogs.behavior:337306 rec.pets.dogs.breeds:334367 rec.pets.dogs.health:155401 rec.pets.herp:239339 rec.photo.darkroom:152720 rec.photo.digital:491405 rec.photo.equipment.35mm:573473 rec.ponds:169889 rec.puzzles:141835 rec.pyrotechnics:167659 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:159042 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:182124 rec.radio.amateur.policy:182315 rec.radio.cb:259857 rec.radio.scanner:235675 rec.radio.shortwave:230967 rec.radio.swap:396872 rec.roller-coaster:391541 rec.running:242223 Hello. I am a newbie in advanced HTML coding. Please check out my design at http://www.geocities.com/drakeljm/ and see what you think. Please reply your Lewis Miller

Response:

Sorry… accidentally copied the NG… Mark

Response:

Sorry… accidentally copied the NG… Mark

That’s okay. It gave those of us who missed it the first time a chance to send a complaint to his ISP — which I did. Mine (AT&T) must have filtered it out, surprisingly enough. Thanks. GB in NC

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Question:

Hi folks – PPRUNE also have some pics taken by Tech Crew of some BIG buildups http://www.pprune.com/ and choose "GALLERY" Martin . You may care to contact me with your email ad for a few pics I’ve taken at FL390 in Asia re: thunderstorms. Mike    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Ben Matthes. Adelaide, Australia.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

The region of weather surrounding the earth is in the troposphere, the layer in which we live,and it extends up to the tropopause.  It is characterised by a temp lapse rate, ie, it gets colder as we ascend. After the tropopause the next layer, the stratosphere is considered to be isothermal. As has been stated , the tropopause ranges up around 18km in the low latitudes to around 8 km at the poles. It is not continueous and has significant discontinuities in the region of about 25 -30 degrees north and south latitude  and this is where the jet streams form. Back to the cloud then, convective types, the big cauliflower ones, can go up around 50000 ft in the equitorial regions associated with the wet season. This is the Intertropic Convergence Zone, the region where the northern and southern hemisphere airs meet and mix. This zone migrates north and south with the passage of the sun. To fly north this zone must always be penetrated and that is what we experience on a flight to south east asia from Aust. The zone is wide over the land masses of asia , png and an additional zone , the south pacific convergent zone is also generated and identified from PNG through the Solomon Isls area. The zone is quite narrow around Canton Island. (sometimes!!!) Although generally speaking flight above the tropopause brings smooth, clear sky, flying conditions it isn’t the most economic place to fly and on most occasions the flight is almost finished before the aeroplane is at the weight to climb to that level. In recent times the space shuttle has identified ‘clouds’ at the 40-50 mile high region, named ‘noctilucent cloud’ by NASA. These were first reported by astronauts in the pre moon and moon shots. Thought to be water vapour that has escaped the earths atmosphere via the breaks in the tropopause at the sub tropical high pressure belt region. ( thats the belt of high px that girdles the earth and lies over aust in the winter.) cowboy Before you buy.

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Question for the Knucks    In big T/h and mission critical   do you adopt a "penetration speed" light the fires and Punch on through  or whats the current teaching.?

I think it’s something along the lines of  "Thunderstorm? Was that what that bump was?"

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<snipped me own stuff So Frank the implication here is that your ATC radar can paint weather and aid aircraft. I was under the impression it was specifically designed not to paint wx so that it did not paint out aircraft returns. Does the new set up give you this facility now or do you have access to some remote wx radar info from ??’wherever??’. cowboy Before you buy.

Hiya Cowboy My understanding is that – at Adelaide at least – there is a separate CRT (or whatever they are) on which the weather radar is displayed onto. It is reasnably smaller than the main screen used for ATC, and sits above the operator being easliy visible at all times. It also displays atmospheric electrical activity issuing a warning tone once certain paramters are passed (EG frequency of activity in a certain range) – or so I believe – I have just gleaned this info from snooping the airbands & friends who have visited the ATC Centre – not from any 1st hand knowledge ) (maybe time for another visit – but then I’d HAVE TO GO TO MELBOURNE TO DO THAT !!!!!!  :-|  ) TTFN Ben Ben Matthes. Adelaide, Australia.

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So Frank the implication here is that your ATC radar can paint weather and aid aircraft. I was under the impression it was specifically designed not to paint wx so that it did not paint out aircraft returns. Does the new set up give you this facility now or do you have access to some remote wx radar info from ??’wherever??’. cowboy

From a tech perspective… Current generation Australian ATC radar sensors have a weather channel and processor as well as the aircraft channel.  I can tell you the difference and how its done if your interested.  At the moment we aren’t sending wx info to the display system for various reasons, although that may be going to change.  The TAAATS displays are capable of displaying wx vectors but only at 3 or 4 intensities and at the moment I don’t believe the (wx intensity) levels are set to be able to differentiate storms.  The wx data is only available out to fifty NM from the sensor too.  The tech display at the sensor is capable of displaying (amongst other things, depending on how it is set up) fairly accurate wx pictures, however the data rates that would be required to present this at the centres make it impractical (read too expensive). Most centres (Presumably Perth is one of these Frank?) have RAPIC (Met wx radar) displays which are quite capable of displaying and differentiating storm cells- they actually display rainfall intensity. RAPIC sensors are at all capitals AFAIK plus various other places.  Here at Cooly the closest is Brisbane, which puts us right at the edge of range, and I’ve been told it’s not as useful as it could be.  You’ll have seen a RAPIC type display on some of the TV weather reports- they call it their ‘colour wx radar’ or some such. Sorry to jump in Frank… JM — If one synchronised swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too? Take out the zigzag or you’ll miss us…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Frank & others Indeed your right about ATC accomodating traffic diversions Frank. I was listening to Adelaide App/Dep and Centre one Sunday night while a row of TS went through ADL (listening on my scanner that is – tucked up in bed where VFR Pilot’s should be on such a night:-)   ) A Bae146 departed ADL for MEL and very soon after takeoff reported that his WX radar had failed. With  the assistance of ATC ground based WX radar and reports from other a/c,   ATC managed to steer this 146 left and right and all over the place clear of buildups until he was about 100DME east. Always interesting listening when times are busy and WX is bad TTFN

So Frank the implication here is that your ATC radar can paint weather and aid aircraft. I was under the impression it was specifically designed not to paint wx so that it did not paint out aircraft returns. Does the new set up give you this facility now or do you have access to some remote wx radar info from ??’wherever??’. cowboy Before you buy.

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Question for the Knucks    In big T/h and mission critical   do you adopt a "penetration speed" light the fires and Punch on through  or whats the current teaching.?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to disagree with you on this one cowboy. Reseachers in Meteorology have three favorite sites for thunderstorm research, Belgium Congo, Amazon Basin and Darwin. I visited a joint US/Australian research program in Darwin in the early 90’s and I cannot remember the exact numbers but in January they were getting daily CB tops over FL450. and occasionally in the 60’s. The reason for Darwin selection is the consistent formation (Hector was mentioned in another post) and the good vertical buildups. These programs are still conducted almost on a annual basis from around December to March and comprise widely displaced  radar, lightning detection and sonde flights along with fixed wing aircraft when they can afford them. The aircraft costs and risks is one of the reasons for the development of the Aerosonde (see http://www.aerosonde.com/aerora_home.htm  ) and UAV type aircraft will be used more and more in future for weather related research. No way you will get me in a C130 or Orion crunching through thunderstorms. (Crunching is the operative word) <snip IWe don’t have as much moisture in the atmosphere in Aust to generated the conditions that you describe. It could have been a mature ’supercell’ thunderstorm but even though it looked black dark and horrible it was not in the immediate path of the departing traffic. Brian G

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Frank Paterson said..  FP Didn’t mean to scaremonger, Martin. Yes, I know. It’s just that I hate lightning. Silly paranoia I know..  FP It gets trickier lower down, eg in climb or descent and in the  FP vicinity of the airport.  Traffic is denser.   ATC will still One of the most tense moments of my travelling life was a final into JFK during winter, 1996. Most of the descent was in cloud/fog, and it was rough all the way. When we touched down, and began slowing, you could almost hear the tension slide away, and not a few pax actually applauded. Like you said, it must be hell for those who do have a genuine fear of flying. .. Be nice to your kids. They’ll choose your nursing home. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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I have heard an account from a U2 pilot diverting around a storm at 100,000 feet!  I have seen many well above F410 in Australia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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I have heard an account from a U2 pilot diverting around a storm at 100,000 feet!  I have seen many well above F410 in Australia.

When I was working in Darwin NASA had their E2 (or U2 if you wish) and a Herc (or perhaps Orion – memory fade) doing data gathering on tropical storms. The E2 used to fly on top of the CBs and the poor old turboprop had to go into the guts of it. The E2 advised one afternoon that they were 5000 ft above the highest anvil they had ever seen and they were at FL690. On another note, a Flight Service Officer asked the E2 for his actual level for traffic purposes and he stated if you get anything above FL600 let me know and I’ll give the traffic my level. Alan

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Frank Paterson said..  FP So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re  FP significant. Hmmm. How comforting. I watched some people I know depart Fort Lauderdale airport during a thunderstorm. For those who’ve never experienced tropical thunderstorms, it was one of the scariest moments of our lives. I could have sworn that the Dash 8 (I think it was) was hit as it rotated. It wasn’t pleasant driving in it, either. We waited at the airport till the storm cleared. I’ve never seen so much rain and lightning than in a summer Florida storm before. .. 5 out of 3 people have problems with fractions MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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Didn’t mean to scaremonger, Martin. You can take some small comfort from the fact that at high altitudes (the altitudes we were talking about, jet cruising altitudes) you are usually in the clear and can see the cells.  Also, jet aircraft are usually fitted with weather radar so even if the aircraft is not in the clear, the pilot can usually "see" the storm on the radar and divert around it.  ATC can usually accommodate a diversion to avoid turbulance.   It gets trickier lower down, eg in climb or descent and in the vicinity of the airport.  Traffic is denser.   ATC will still accommodate diversions but it’s more difficult and traffic flows may suffer as a result.   The decision to land or depart when there is a thunderstorm in the immediate vicinity of an airport is a joint pilot-ATC responsibility. ATC is responsible for runway selection and providing as much info as possible to the pilot.  The ultimate go/no-go decision is the pilot’s. Smaller, and especially propellor driven aircraft (your Dash 8 in Florida), are generally less susceptible to wind shear and may go where a larger jet will not. If a pilot chooses to go it will be because he asses it as safe.  It will not necessarily be comfortable!  I’m aware that is of little consolation to people who suffer a fear of flying, etc.  Passengers’ comfort and their perception of the airline company and its performance may form part of the pilot’s go/no-go decision.  We (ATC) don’t consider that at all – not our job. Cheers Frank Frank Paterson said.. FP So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re FP significant. Hmmm. How comforting. I watched some people I know depart Fort Lauderdale airport during a thunderstorm.

The opinions expressed above are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard an account from a U2 pilot diverting around a storm at 100,000 feet!  I have seen many well above F410 in Australia. When I was working in Darwin NASA had their E2 (or U2 if you wish) and a Herc (or perhaps Orion – memory fade) doing data gathering on tropical storms. The E2 used to fly on top of the CBs and the poor old turboprop had to go into the guts of it. The E2 advised one afternoon that they were 5000 ft above the highest anvil they had ever seen and they were at FL690. On another note, a Flight Service Officer asked the E2 for his actual level for traffic purposes and he stated if you get anything above FL600 let me know and I’ll give the traffic my level. Alan

The second anecdote suggests the accuracy of the first. These posts are getting like fishing stories. Is there anybody reading from the BOM or Guinness book of record lies to adjudicate. cowboy Before you buy.

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Frank Paterson said..  FP So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re  FP significant. Hmmm. How comforting. I watched some people I know depart Fort Lauderdale airport during a thunderstorm. For those who’ve never experienced tropical thunderstorms, it was one of the scariest moments of our lives. I could have sworn that the Dash 8 (I think it was) was hit as it rotated. It wasn’t pleasant driving in it, either. We waited at the airport till the storm cleared. I’ve never seen so much rain and lightning than in a summer Florida storm before.

The major airports in the USA are now fitted with LLWAS Low Level Wind Shear Alert  Systems utilising doppler weather radar that defines the heart of the shear and the position of it to the or an active runway. It gives a clear warning to the tower operator.There is no way an aeroplane would take off into such a storm if the alert system gave a warning. No pilot would take off into the heart of a cell. In Australia we recall the loss of the Vickers Viscount that was lost at the mouth of Botany Bay. The Sec general of the UN, Dag hammersjold ??? was lost in the Belgium Congo in the same situation. We don’t have as much moisture in the atmosphere in Aust to generated the conditions that you describe. It could have been a mature ’supercell’ thunderstorm but even though it looked black dark and horrible it was not in the immediate path of the departing traffic. They don’t pay enough for a pilot to take off into such a storm and in answer to Frank P’s post, no pilot would take off into one just to maintain the perceived passenger image of his airline……. and would the pax want him too. cowboy Before you buy.

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There have been T-storms in Oklahoma with recored tops at over 75000 ft and I don’t know of any higher that have been reported but the best weather radar equipment in the world is there so it could be theres higher storms where no one is looking. The atomsphere where storms from is about 20,000 ft at the poles to about 60,000 ft at the equator.  Of course there are exceptions and they build storms that eat trailer parks. -tim http://web.abnormal.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My old Met instructor Billy Ware went to great lengths to explain that storms have a greater capacity for vertical growth the closer you get to the equator. This is due to the greater height of the atmosphere at the equator, which in turn is related to its higher rotational velocity than the atmosphere at the poles. Generally storms are limited by the tropopause. Which is definitely higher the closer you get to the equator.

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Hi Frank & others Indeed your right about ATC accomodating traffic diversions Frank. I was listening to Adelaide App/Dep and Centre one Sunday night while a row of TS went through ADL (listening on my scanner that is – tucked up in bed where VFR Pilot’s should be on such a night:-)   ) A Bae146 departed ADL for MEL and very soon after takeoff reported that his WX radar had failed. With  the assistance of ATC ground based WX radar and reports from other a/c,   ATC managed to steer this 146 left and right and all over the place clear of buildups until he was about 100DME east. Always interesting listening when times are busy and WX is bad TTFN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Didn’t mean to scaremonger, Martin. You can take some small comfort from the fact that at high altitudes (the altitudes we were talking about, jet cruising altitudes) you are usually in the clear and can see the cells.  Also, jet aircraft are usually fitted with weather radar so even if the aircraft is not in the clear, the pilot can usually "see" the storm on the radar and divert around it.  ATC can usually accommodate a diversion to avoid turbulance.   It gets trickier lower down, eg in climb or descent and in the vicinity of the airport.  Traffic is denser.   ATC will still accommodate diversions but it’s more difficult and traffic flows may suffer as a result.   The decision to land or depart when there is a thunderstorm in the immediate vicinity of an airport is a joint pilot-ATC responsibility. ATC is responsible for runway selection and providing as much info as possible to the pilot.  The ultimate go/no-go decision is the pilot’s. Smaller, and especially propellor driven aircraft (your Dash 8 in Florida), are generally less susceptible to wind shear and may go where a larger jet will not. If a pilot chooses to go it will be because he asses it as safe.  It will not necessarily be comfortable!  I’m aware that is of little consolation to people who suffer a fear of flying, etc.  Passengers’ comfort and their perception of the airline company and its performance may form part of the pilot’s go/no-go decision.  We (ATC) don’t consider that at all – not our job. Cheers Frank

Ben Matthes. Adelaide, Australia.

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Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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the big towering storms up north in the wet often reach towards 50 000ft.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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Generally, if it has lightning in it, then it will go up a long way…. JB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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We were on cruise a few years back on the way to Bangkok from Melb around 39,000 ft when we entered a violent thunderstorm and the plane was hit but seemed to emerge totally undamaged. We were surrounded by storms all with tops way higher than us. Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Australia Aero Club of Southern Tasmania   www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                           www.prologic.com.au

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

Response:

the big towering storms up north in the wet often reach towards 50 000ft.

I thought I’d heard mention of storm tops to 75 0000ft when I was in Isa, but then I’m Tech not Met so I wouldn’t be sure… — If one synchronised swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too? Take out the zigzag or you’ll miss us…

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A friend of mine was recently flying a corporate jet at 47,000 somewhere between Broom and Alice Springs, bound for Sydney.  They diverted around the top of a storm by what should have been an adequate margin but copped lateral gusts.  The envelope for there aircraft is not big up there and the airspeed fluctuations required *very* urgent descent.  I think he said they got a stall warning and almost a stick shaker. So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re significant. Cheers Frank Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up?

The opinions expressed above are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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Martin . You may care to contact me with your email ad for a few pics I’ve taken at FL390 in Asia re: thunderstorms. Mike    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

My old Met instructor Billy Ware went to great lengths to explain that storms have a greater capacity for vertical growth the closer you get to the equator. This is due to the greater height of the atmosphere at the equator, which in turn is related to its higher rotational velocity than the atmosphere at the poles. Generally storms are limited by the tropopause. Which is definitely higher the closer you get to the equator. My experience was that if Bill said it then generally it was true.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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Question:

<<If you smoke after flyfishing you’re doing it too fast… It’s ok to smoke after sex. But if sex is a pain in the ass, you are doing it wrong. Dave L.

Response:

<<If you smoke after flyfishing you’re doing it too fast… It’s ok to smoke after sex. But if sex is a pain in the ass, you are doing it wrong. Dave L.

    After sex is ok, during sex is another thing entirely.                                                       John Popp                                                   in Sanford Fl.

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If you smoke during sex you’re definitely doing it too fast! — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<If you smoke after flyfishing you’re doing it too fast… It’s ok to smoke after sex. But if sex is a pain in the ass, you are doing it wrong. Dave L.    After sex is ok, during sex is another thing entirely.                                                      John Popp                                                  in Sanford Fl.

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To be correctly turned out, a cigar is almost mandatory. Without the contamination of the fly by nicotine tainted fingers, ALL the fish that your fly came into contact with would, without exception, be fooled into taking and therefore caught. This would cause havoc, especially amongst the catch and kill anglers who would have to go home after only two or three minutes fishing. Streams, rivers and lakes would be denuded of fish, tackle manufacturers and fly tying businesses would go out of business, chaos would ensue! Do your duty Scott. Go and buy at least two packets of the cheapest and foulest smelling cigars you can find and protect our sport, fish and rivers.

Plus, after having the fish shred every single fly you’ve got in your box you can take the butt end of that stogie, jam a hook through it, and catch One More For The Road. Not to mention their use as a mosquito, fly, and fisherman repellant. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious. Hi All, I would say that a very small percentage of fly fisher persons smoke cigarettes. I think I would know as I can smell it on anyone that walks in my store and very few do. Most fly fisherman seem to be fairly intelligent and probably realize that if they want to live a long time they should not smoke cigarettes. Puffin’ on a cigar at stream side once and a while would kill you. Sorry if my observations has offended anyone. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Not me Bill, I totally agree….a pack and a half a day smoker, I quit after 20 yrs of that. Within 6 months, cigarette smoke and *especially* cigar smoke sickened me. I have been known to get up and move (or leave) a restaurant due to somebody lighting up at the next table. (this was before the anti-smoking laws went into effect) The experience astream is so much more enjoyable without clouds of toxin interfering with the clean air. Frank Church Elkhart, IN

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Not me Bill, I totally agree….a pack and a half a day smoker, I quit after 20 yrs of that. Within 6 months, cigarette smoke and *especially* cigar smoke sickened me.

Interesting. I had smoked for 30yrs (most of them 2+ packs/day) when I quit 5yrs ago. I find that my sense of smell has vastly improved but 2nd hand smoke doesn’t bother me any more now than it did, in fact I will move into the smoking section of a resteraunt just to get away from screaming kids. I never did much like smelling cigars even then, though<g. — Charlie…

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Only when you can get one to light… "FW" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Perhaps…but I’ve found a better "trick".  My daughter purchased a nice flask to carry in my vest.  I fill it with a bit of alcoholic beverage and, when fishing is really slow, I sip away at my flask.  I don’t catch any more fish than I did before, but the slow times seem more enjoyable Barry

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Only when you can get one to light…

More than a little truth in this! Wet fingers and dry cigarettes are not a good combination.  I used to have trouble lighting my pipe having just filled it when my hands were wet. I’ve *had* to give up my beloved pipe on what turned out to be unfounded medical advice. — Bill

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Hi All, I would say that a very small percentage of fly fisher persons smoke cigarettes. I think I would know as I can smell it on anyone that walks in my store and very few do. Most fly fisherman seem to be fairly intelligent and probably realize that if they want to live a long time they should not smoke cigarettes. Puffin’ on a cigar at stream side once and a while would kill you. Sorry if my observations has offended anyone. Bill Kiene

______ Doesn’t offend me or many, many others here at all Bill.  For me?  I simply won’t allow anyone near my family or on my property that wants to use any kind of tobacco products.  I detest it so.  It is a filthy, selfish, arrogant, poisoning, deadly, habit.  More often than not, people who smoke are selfish but worse yet, they are 100% inconsiderate of others.  Not only is the secondary smoke offensive, just their visual presence is disgusting.  I can’t even stand to look at anyone that is smoking.  It makes me want to rip the cigarette out of their face and then slap them silly.  But I know this might be a little unreasonable and others may think I would be over reacting a bit.  I suppose everyone would be right regarding this fantasy.  I only wonder if others are so inclined and are just too shy to tell those who are smoking in their presence to kindly stop it in an other than an asking tone.     No one fishes with me that smokes.  I can’t even stand to see anyone do it even from a distance.  Absolutely drives me ballistic because the habit has killed old friends of mine.  I really like people who DON’T smoke.  I like the fact that in a parking area and along the stream I don’t have to look at thrown away cigarettes, their packages, or cigar bands or butts or whatever.  People who throw these items on the ground are ignorant ninkapoops.  People who have ‘the need’ to smoke are weak, undisciplined, selfish and they don’t regard the health risk to  others like their own wives, and will smoke in the house even if children live there.  A child can’t keep a man of great size from smoking in the same room, but I sure don’t mind telling the same dude to stop it or get lost if they get near me or my friends.   It is a pathetic state of affairs. A single puff of smoke across a thirty or forty foot room will put my wife into the hospital fighting for her life.  It will literally cost me thousands of dollars.  It shuts her breathing down.  Smoking does affect others in anyone’s family that DON’T Smoke.  Anyone that smokes inside their home where another doesn’t smoke, is a bully.  I especially detest women who smoke.  If people want to go behind the barn out of my sight and smoke . . . I suppose that might be all right as long as they didn’t throw their butts down into the pig sty and get that dirty.  I particularly am concerned about highly intelligent hogs having to deal with addicts that smoke.  These substance abusers are not strong enough to control their own lives. They should not be allowed to influence others.  If I had a customer who isn’t smoking or doesn’t smoke browsing in my shop I sure as heck won’t allow anyone else in the area to do it. Bill?  If you are man enough to put a big NO SMOKING Signs all over your store, I’ll send all my non-smoking friends over to your place. Besides.  Who likes to handle money tainted with nicotine anyway?  We burn any we get.  How about you? yack! Mr. G. "Ah?  You’re not going to light that right now are you?" "Excuse me, could you wait until I leave before lighting that up?" "Don’t light that up in my presence please.  It will make me sick." "When did you start smoking, may I ask, before doing so now – here?" "My God man!  I didn’t know you were a smoker!" Or if in a vehicle and they sneak aboard before everyone realizes we have a smoker passenger . . . we simply pull over to the side of the road and say, "You must refrain from smoking during this entire trip or get out right now."  (with a smile, of course) ______ OTHER WAYS OF CONTROLLING SMOKERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO ADD THEM HERE ______ 1)   As you said Bill.  Sorry if my observations has offended anyone.

Response:

A couple of years ago, I caught a 3 1/2 lb’er at a small stillwater called ‘Northbank’ near Peterborough (UK).  When I spooned the fish, all I found was a cigarette butt (close, but no cigar).  Perhaps some of our fish are acquiring the taste?

 Robert Scott replies: < .<<..and I’ve caught a nice Lake George, NY Landlocked Salmon whose stomach contained a cigarette butt AND a foil gum wrapper.  Perhaps he wanted to freshen his breath after the smoke? I can understand a trout taking a cigarette butt (with a filter).  There is a nymph called the "Strawman" that is heavily packed spun deer hair. You Gink it up (George’s stuff can be used as a verb too) and it is supposed to represent a caddis case.  It looks just like a cigarette filter.   Tough fly to fish, however, for nothing will go near it if there is even the slightest bit of drag (micro-drag?).  But if you can get it totally drag free, they smash it.  It is an excellent fly to dapple with. I smoked for 40 years.  I was up to 4 packs/day (3 cartons a week).  My doc figured out I was smoking a cigarette every 11 minutes (if I slept 8 hours/day).  I’ve been off the damn things for 6 years now and every-thing smells great. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Mr. G You are a very sick man, I hope the doctors are kind to you when they take you away. PS, don’t even think of "slapping people silly" unless you are Evander Holyfield, you might get hurt. Are you really a control freak or is this just a troll? — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email)

  – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -______ Doesn’t offend me or many, many others here at all Bill.  For me?  I simply won’t allow anyone near my family or on my property that wants to use any kind of tobacco products.  I detest it so.  It is a filthy, selfish, arrogant, poisoning, deadly, habit.  More often than not, people who smoke are selfish but worse yet, they are 100% inconsiderate of others.  Not only is the secondary smoke offensive, just their visual presence is disgusting.  I can’t even stand to look at anyone that is smoking.  It makes me want to rip the cigarette out of their face and then slap them silly.  But I know this might be a little unreasonable and others may think I would be over reacting a bit.  I suppose everyone would be right regarding this fantasy.  I only wonder if others are so inclined and are just too shy to tell those who are smoking in their presence to kindly stop it in an other than an asking tone. No one fishes with me that smokes.  I can’t even stand to see anyone do it even from a distance.  Absolutely drives me ballistic because the habit has killed old friends of mine.  I really like people who DON’T smoke.  I like the fact that in a parking area and along the stream I don’t have to look at thrown away cigarettes, their packages, or cigar bands or butts or whatever.  People who throw these items on the ground are ignorant ninkapoops.  People who have ‘the need’ to smoke are weak, undisciplined, selfish and they don’t regard the health risk to  others like their own wives, and will smoke in the house even if children live there.  A child can’t keep a man of great size from smoking in the same room, but I sure don’t mind telling the same dude to stop it or get lost if they get near me or my friends. It is a pathetic state of affairs. A single puff of smoke across a thirty or forty foot room will put my wife into the hospital fighting for her life.  It will literally cost me thousands of dollars.  It shuts her breathing down.  Smoking does affect others in anyone’s family that DON’T Smoke.  Anyone that smokes inside their home where another doesn’t smoke, is a bully.  I especially detest women who smoke.  If people want to go behind the barn out of my sight and smoke . . . I suppose that might be all right as long as they didn’t throw their butts down into the pig sty and get that dirty.  I particularly am concerned about highly intelligent hogs having to deal with addicts that smoke.  These substance abusers are not strong enough to control their own lives. They should not be allowed to influence others.  If I had a customer who isn’t smoking or doesn’t smoke browsing in my shop I sure as heck won’t allow anyone else in the area to do it. Bill?  If you are man enough to put a big NO SMOKING Signs all over your store, I’ll send all my non-smoking friends over to your place. Besides.  Who likes to handle money tainted with nicotine anyway?  We burn any we get.  How about you? yack! Mr. G. "Ah?  You’re not going to light that right now are you?" "Excuse me, could you wait until I leave before lighting that up?" "Don’t light that up in my presence please.  It will make me sick." "When did you start smoking, may I ask, before doing so now – here?" "My God man!  I didn’t know you were a smoker!" Or if in a vehicle and they sneak aboard before everyone realizes we have a smoker passenger . . . we simply pull over to the side of the road and say, "You must refrain from smoking during this entire trip or get out right now."  (with a smile, of course) ______ OTHER WAYS OF CONTROLLING SMOKERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO ADD THEM HERE ______ 1) As you said Bill.  Sorry if my observations has offended anyone.

Response:

______ I admit that I am trolling a bit with the below post, but my heart screams when I see a friend of mine smoking. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______ Doesn’t offend me or many, many others here at all Bill.  For me?  I simply won’t allow anyone near my family or on my property that wants to use any kind of tobacco products.  I detest it so.  It is a filthy, selfish, arrogant, poisoning, deadly, habit.  More often than not, people who smoke are selfish but worse yet, they are 100% inconsiderate of others.  Not only is the secondary smoke offensive, just their visual presence is disgusting.  I can’t even stand to look at anyone that is smoking.  It makes me want to rip the cigarette out of their face and then slap them silly.  But I know this might be a little unreasonable and others may think I would be over reacting a bit.  I suppose everyone would be right regarding this fantasy.  I only wonder if others are so inclined and are just too shy to tell those who are smoking in their presence to kindly stop it in an other than an asking tone. No one fishes with me that smokes.  I can’t even stand to see anyone do it even from a distance.  Absolutely drives me ballistic because the habit has killed old friends of mine.  I really like people who DON’T smoke.  I like the fact that in a parking area and along the stream I don’t have to look at thrown away cigarettes, their packages, or cigar bands or butts or whatever.  People who throw these items on the ground are ignorant ninkapoops.  People who have ‘the need’ to smoke are weak, undisciplined, selfish and they don’t regard the health risk to  others like their own wives, and will smoke in the house even if children live there.  A child can’t keep a man of great size from smoking in the same room, but I sure don’t mind telling the same dude to stop it or get lost if they get near me or my friends. It is a pathetic state of affairs. A single puff of smoke across a thirty or forty foot room will put my wife into the hospital fighting for her life.  It will literally cost me thousands of dollars.  It shuts her breathing down.  Smoking does affect others in anyone’s family that DON’T Smoke.  Anyone that smokes inside their home where another doesn’t smoke, is a bully.  I especially detest women who smoke.  If people want to go behind the barn out of my sight and smoke . . . I suppose that might be all right as long as they didn’t throw their butts down into the pig sty and get that dirty.  I particularly am concerned about highly intelligent hogs having to deal with addicts that smoke.  These substance abusers are not strong enough to control their own lives. They should not be allowed to influence others.  If I had a customer who isn’t smoking or doesn’t smoke browsing in my shop I sure as heck won’t allow anyone else in the area to do it. Bill?  If you are man enough to put a big NO SMOKING Signs all over your store, I’ll send all my non-smoking friends over to your place. Besides.  Who likes to handle money tainted with nicotine anyway?  We burn any we get.  How about you? yack! Mr. G. "Ah?  You’re not going to light that right now are you?" "Excuse me, could you wait until I leave before lighting that up?" "Don’t light that up in my presence please.  It will make me sick." "When did you start smoking, may I ask, before doing so now – here?" "My God man!  I didn’t know you were a smoker!" Or if in a vehicle and they sneak aboard before everyone realizes we have a smoker passenger . . . we simply pull over to the side of the road and say, "You must refrain from smoking during this entire trip or get out right now."  (with a smile, of course) ______ OTHER WAYS OF CONTROLLING SMOKERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO ADD THEM HERE ______ 1) As you said Bill.  Sorry if my observations has offended anyone.

Response:

To be correctly turned out, a cigar is almost mandatory. Without the contamination of the fly by nicotine tainted fingers, ALL the fish that your fly came into contact with would, without exception, be fooled into taking and therefore caught. This would cause havoc, especially amongst the catch and kill anglers who would have to go home after only two or three minutes fishing. Streams, rivers and lakes would be denuded of fish, tackle manufacturers and fly tying businesses would go out of business, chaos would ensue! Do your duty Scott. Go and buy at least two packets of the cheapest and foulest smelling cigars you can find and protect our sport, fish and rivers. — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

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I found was a cigarette butt (close, but no cigar)

Tell us was it a Passing Cloud, I hope not, otherwise you know that means – someones been over here trying to take OUR fish — Bill

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To be correctly turned out, a cigar is almost mandatory.

Let us take a broader view!  Consider this – whenever I smell a cigar I think of Christmas.  Who the Hell wants to think of Christmas during the fishing season? — Bill

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If you smoke after flyfishing you’re doing it too fast… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of?

Perhaps…but I’ve found a better "trick".  My daughter purchased a nice flask to carry in my vest.  I fill it with a bit of alcoholic beverage and, when fishing is really slow, I sip away at my flask.  I don’t catch any more fish than I did before, but the slow times seem more enjoyable Barry

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Vinnies smokes from dawn to dusk – I just wish it was tobacco….. :0) JE

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Cigars not cigarettes. I’ve often been sickened on a lake when a buddy lights one up 50 yards away. They say it drives off insects. I’ve never actually seen a smoker catch a fish however. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

Response:

A couple of years ago, I caught a 3 1/2 lb’er at a small stillwater called ‘Northbank’ near Peterborough (UK).  When I spooned the fish, all I found was a cigarette butt (close, but no cigar).  Perhaps some of our fish are acquiring the taste?

…and I’ve caught a nice Lake George, NY Landlocked Salmon whose stomach contained a cigarette butt AND a foil gum wrapper.  Perhaps he wanted to freshen his breath after the smoke? But to the point of the thread…   I am a reformed smoker; I quit five years ago.   BUT, when I’m on my annual spring striper pilgrimage to Cape Cod, I smoke.   Two weeks later, when I get home, no more smoking.  (Same thing during a duck hunting vacation, too.)   And I remember when I quit, the times I wanted a smoke the most was when I was standing knee-deep in the Battenkill.  Most people who quit say they want one the worst after a meal, or when having a beer.  Not me.  I wanted one when I was fishing… and I don’t even remember ever smoking while I was fishing during my smoking years.  Funny. Bob Scott

Response:

What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

Hi All, I would say that a very small percentage of fly fisher persons smoke cigarettes. I think I would know as I can smell it on anyone that walks in my store and very few do. Most fly fisherman seem to be fairly intelligent and probably realize that if they want to live a long time they should not smoke cigarettes. Puffin’ on a cigar at stream side once and a while would kill you. Sorry if my observations has offended anyone. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Scott  No they don’t. But a cigar or a pipe helps to keep  the bugs off you while on the water. Or  so I have been told. As I smoke a pipe I find it dose  work  for me most of  the time.   I don’t know what I will do next week on vacation, the smokeing lamp is out in  the northern part of Michigan.  Tight lines

Response:

To be correctly turned out, a cigar is almost mandatory. Without the contamination of the fly by nicotine tainted fingers, ALL the fish that your fly came into contact with would, without exception, be fooled into taking and therefore caught. This would cause havoc, especially amongst the catch and kill anglers who would have to go home after only two or three minutes fishing. Streams, rivers and lakes would be denuded of fish, tackle manufacturers and fly tying businesses would go out of business, chaos would ensue! Do your duty Scott. Go and buy at least two packets of the cheapest and foulest smelling cigars you can find and protect our sport, fish and rivers. —

A couple of years ago, I caught a 3 1/2 lb’er at a small stillwater called ‘Northbank’ near Peterborough (UK).  When I spooned the fish, all I found was a cigarette butt (close, but no cigar).  Perhaps some of our fish are acquiring the taste? Tight lungs, — Stuart Nuttall (Replace ‘nospam’ with ‘nuttll’ to reply by e-mail)

Response:

What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

Response:

What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

     Caught us, Yes it was a secret, like getting a waitress to bring your meal after ordering, like spoting an 8 point white tail, or in the fishermans case the drag squealing with the strongest hit you’ve ever known in an otherwise fishless day. It always happens (in the last two cases) when the rod/rifle is cradled in the crook of the arm while you light up before heading home. IT’S THE RULE!                                                         John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

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Question:

I’ve recently started freshwater fly fishing and having read about where to look for the fish, I’d like to see a video on reading a stream.  Does anyone have a good video to recommend? Virginia Rick

Response:

I’ve recently started freshwater fly fishing and having read about where to look for the fish, I’d like to see a video on reading a stream.  Does anyone have a good video to recommend?

Hi Virginia, Check out the old Scientific Anglers tape "Anatomy of a Trout Stream" with Rick Hafele.  He uses a giant orange phony fish to show you some of the best holding spots for trout.  The rest of the tape is full of great info even if Rick has to squint into the camera most of the time.  This tape will not only show you where to find them, but also explain why you find them there.                    Hope this helps,                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy.

It would be unlikely (though not impossible) that it’s primary function was as a salmon rod. Even today salmon in Britain are normally fished for with two-handed rods, from 12 to 15 or more feet long. You may fish for summer fish with a shorter rod but you’ll then be said to be fishing with a trout rod. It might well be one of two things: a sea-trout rod (in other words trout that migrate to sea like steelhead) and are fished for on rivers – that is if the action is quite tight and fast, or, I think more likely,  a boat rod,  for fishing for trout from a boat drifiting along on a lake with the prevailing wind. In this fashion, casts are quite short, and very soft rods were used – very often around this length. I still have one my father inherited in the 1920s from a major Irish fisherman, but I must say that I find it unfishable. I fish with split cane on the English chalkstreams, but anything of ten foot I would find very hard going

Response:

I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods.   Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Response:

Ed, I think this rod was made by (or for ?) Carter & Co., London that appears to have been a tackle store (??) that existed from 1853 till 1969. The company changed it’s name from Alfred Carter to Carter & Co. in 1901, so your rod is definitely post 1901. This is all I could find out from my books. regards Inge Solberg Houston, TX – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age. It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods.   Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods. Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Heck, I’m no expert (for sure) but I may be able to point you in the right direction.  It does sound like a salmon rod, probably taking about an 8 to 10 weight line.  The wraps every inch or so were called "intermediate wraps" and were originally used when glues weren’t very good.  However, UK-built rods seem to value tradition and rods with intermediate wraps were available in the 1970’s (I believe from Clifford Constable — or was it J.Sharpe?).  In my web wanderings I found a site that frequently auctions cane rods in the UK (I think it is www.auctions-on-line.com, if that doesn’t work e-mail me and I’ll find it) with descriptions, etc.  Sorry I can’t help with the name of the actual maker — I only know of companies that were on the scene in the 1970’s or later (i.e., Hardy, Constable, Farlow, Sharpe, Partridge, etc.). BTW–If you do find out exactly what it is, please post a follow-up. George (Irish descent, not living in Ireland)

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Question:

The water is still fairly high in the park, but with some work you should do well. I would take caddis (several sizes 12-18, and colors) – mosquitos , adams, also grey and brown hackle peacocks.       For nymphs, almost anything (pt, prince, beadhead hare’ ears, etc. will do nicely. Fish the road water between the campgrounds and road’s end and walk up (2 mi. ) to bubb’s creek and fish both it and the south fork in that area.   cal Buz’s Flyshop in Visalia and talk to Mickey or Larry for latest reliable info  - 209-734-1151 — good fishing. Hank Urbach  and hunting partners Rainbow’s Eagle River Buck SH Rainbow Mac’s Starry Sky JH             Hill’s Ferry Hunting Retriever Club, CA

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I’m going to be camping in Kings Canyon National Park in mid-august near the South Fork of the Kings River and wonder if anyone has any fly pattern recommendations for this river or any of the creeks nearby or if their is a fly shop in the Fresno area you could direct me to. Thanks for your help in advance, Bob

Response:

I’m going to be camping in Kings Canyon National Park in mid-august near the South Fork of the Kings River and wonder if anyone has any fly pattern recommendations for this river or any of the creeks nearby or if their is a fly shop in the Fresno area you could direct me to.

 Bob… I fished the So. Fk. of the Kings Thurs. & Fri. and it was fishing great. In another 2 weeks the flows will come down a little and it should be even better.  The best flies are a grey Deer Hair Caddis in #10 or 12 and a Western Coachman, a local fly that is basically a short bodied peacock Trude, #12 or 14.  Around sundown a Blue Dun Parachute size 14 or 16 is also effective.  Occasionally just before dark in the flat runs there can be a hatch of #16-18 light Cahill or PMD although a #16 Blue Dun Parachute seems to work just fine in that situation.   There is a ff section in Herb Bauer Sporting Goods in Fresno where you can get good advice if you don’t talk to anyone under retirement age, but they don’t carry the flies you really need.  The best shop is Buz’s Fly Shop in Visalia.  Larry Goates who works there has fished the Kings all his life and guides there almost every week.   Have a great trip. …Dick

Response:

Hiya Bob, I the Kings was one of my favorite rivers when I was living in Fresno.  What you *need* to carry in your box are as follows: Blue Dun #12-16 (I prefer parachute) light cahill #14-16 various ants, both red and black, #14-18 tan/olive caddis #14-16 GRHE #12-16 PT nymph #14-18 The above flies should keep you catching fish anywhere on the river.  BTW, I’ve never seen a "full blown" blue dun hatch on the kings, but for some reason these flies are irresistable to the fish.  I’m not sure about the water flow right now, but august/sept usually has fairly low water- sneak up on the pools! There are a some fly shops in Fresno, either Heubner’s sports or Bauer’s (on Blackstone)- I think those were the names……  Bauer’s is bigger, with a larger selection, but IMHO Huebner’s has better flies. Best- Hans — "The worst monotonous drone coming from a lectern or the most eye-splitting textbook written in turgid English is nothing in comparison to the psychological Sahara that starts right in your bedroom and spurns the horizon."         -Joseph Brodsky, from "In praise of Boredom"          delivered as a commencement address at Dartmouth College. Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermont

Response:

Question:

My girlfriend has asked me to teach her how to flyfish.  I’ve been an avid flyfisherman for three years now.  I feel I’m good enough to tie knots in the air with the best of them . A few questions: 1. I don’t want to spend a lot of money for a rod/reel that she may lose interest in so I’m going to get something that I can use in the future (if necessary).  Any opinions on the prepackaged everything-you-need-to-start-NOW rod/reel/line combos?  I’ve seen some ranging from $30 to $200. Quality is an issue. 2. She asked if being left-handed would make a difference.  It had never occurred to me that I routinely cast with either hand, depending on the situation (ie, how many flies I’ve lost in the tree to my right-rear).  Retrieving is always done with rod in right/reeling with left.  Just curious if any left-handers have had any problems learning or buying equipment. 3. Women’s waders: I haven’t been able to find any in stores around here (Grand Rapids, MI).  Any experiences with mail ordering women’s waders (good or bad) would be helpful.  She will use the waders irregardless of fishing since she’s into fisheries biology.  Looking for good 4mm or 5mm neoprene. I read the thread from a few months ago about teaching the Significant Other how to flyfish. Interesting advice that will be taken to heart. Thanks in advance. Tight lines, Brian Austin

Response:

My girlfriend has asked me to teach her how to flyfish.  I’ve been an avid flyfisherman for three years now.  I feel I’m good enough to tie knots in the air with the best of them . (snip) 2. She asked if being left-handed would make a difference.  It had never occurred to me that I routinely cast with either hand, depending on the situation (ie, how many flies I’ve lost in the tree to my right-rear).  Retrieving is always done with rod in right/reeling with left.  Just curious if any left-handers have had any problems learning or buying equipment. Tight lines, Brian Austin

In terms of _learning_ to cast, my advice would be to stand in front of your girlfriend and have her "mirror" what you’re doing to get the timing, or stand to her left so she can see what you’re doing.  Or, get a copy of Ed Jaworowski’s book on casting (the best ever, IMHO). Enjoy! Doug Stewart

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Brain. I suggest you bring her to my small ranch in Montana. Hawley Mountain Ranch max guests 24 is in the Absaroka Wilderness 25 miles north of Yellowstone Park. You can fish the Boulder River, horse back ride, hike or just read a book. This summer I caught so many fish that—ok I also hurt my right arm moving rocks–my right arm hurt so I had to learn to teach fly fishing with my left. So now when I go to the stream either arm works.  As far as teaching your girlfriend to fish , I taught my first wife to drive. Will enought said on that point. I did teach Ellen new wife of 10yr. how to fish when she was a girlfriend. First time on the stream she caught and released 6 before I got a fly on— so be careful!!!  Enjoy her and the outdoors thats what life is about.                       Your Montana Friend!!!                          Bryant Blewett BBlewett

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Have you ever taken a guided float trip on the lower Sacramento river (near Redding, CA)? If so I’d like to heard about your experience. – Would you recommend your guide? – How good was your guide with beginners? – When is the best time to go? I’m thinking of taking my girlfriend on a float trip on the lower Sacramento as her first ff’ing trip.  I’ve already took her out casting and she seemed to really enjoy it.  I’d like to take her on a trip that’s comfortable (she doesn’t get wet), not too stressful (no wading around rough streams), where she doesn’t have to cast far, relatively nice senery, where she stand a very good chance of catching fish (but no fish ponds), relatively close to SF, not too expensive (no $1,000 Orvis fishing schools), where I can also enjoy the trip, and where she’ll learn from a professional (I’ve heard too many horror stories about teaching your SO to fly fish). How’s that for being specific … :^) Thanks, steve

Steve, I promised you a phone number for an excellent guide… (916) 243-5505  Mr. Steve Foster Hope you get an opportunity, good luck!! Bert

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Have you ever taken a guided float trip on the lower Sacramento river (near Redding, CA)? If so I’d like to heard about your experience. – Would you recommend your guide? – How good was your guide with beginners? – When is the best time to go? I’m thinking of taking my girlfriend on a float trip on the lower Sacramento as her first ff’ing trip.  I’ve already took her out casting and she seemed to really enjoy it.  I’d like to take her on a trip that’s comfortable (she doesn’t get wet), not too stressful (no wading around rough streams), where she doesn’t have to cast far, relatively nice senery, where she stand a very good chance of catching fish (but no fish ponds), relatively close to SF, not too expensive (no $1,000 Orvis fishing schools), where I can also enjoy the trip, and where she’ll learn from a professional (I’ve heard too many horror stories about teaching your SO to fly fish). How’s that for being specific … :^) Thanks, steve

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Question:

I am a begining fly fisherman and I am going to be working in canon city, co for the summer. I will be there from May 15- August 15. I would appreciate any suggestions on good places to fish, shops for flys, and approximate times of good hatches. In other words any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance. Paul

You’ll be living right by the headwaters of the Arkansas River, which has some decent trout (so I’ve heard, haven’t gotten down there yet). Also, you won’t be too far from the South Platte, which is pretty famous for awesome catch & release only, artificial flies & lures (barbless hooks) only fishing. The South Platte will be about 1.5 to 2 hours drive from Canon City, either north into Colorado Springs and then West on route 24 to Woodland Park, and north on route 67 to Deckers, or continue through Woodland Park to Lake George, and go up Elevenmile Canyon road (3 dollar access fee you pay at a self-serve station), to the river. I’m still new at the insect hatches, so can’t give you anything of value in that area. Pick up a copy of the Colorado Angling Guide when you get here, or before if you can find it. It’s got a nice collection of Forest Service maps of the areas. As for shops, I know the Angler’s Covey on 8th and West Colorado Ave in Colorado Springs is a great place for fly fishing supplies and advice, although you should be able to find something in Canon City as well, use the yellow pages. — Scott Ferguson                               My views are not necessarily Cray Computer Corporation                    those of Cray Computer Corp.

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I am a begining fly fisherman and I am going to be working in canon city, co for the summer. I will be there from May 15- August 15. I would appreciate any suggestions on good places to fish, shops for flys, and approximate times of good hatches. In other words any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance. Paul

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Question:

Sage blanks? Actually, you could save yourself some grief. Why? Because Sage will locate the location of the spine with removable white markings. I’ve built three SAGE rods and they all came with the spine marked out. The most difficult part is the coating. Try and get the FLEXCOAT package with syringes, cups and mixtures. There are two kinds of FLEXCOAT: one coat (thick) and several coats (thin). I’ve used the one coat and it works ok but for a more consistent finish, I would try the several coat version. Getting a slow rpm motor to turn the rod while applying the FLEXCOAT would help a great deal. If you can’t borrow one from the local flyshop, any BBQ motor will suffice. Not to worry, you’ll make a great rod! p.s. there’s a flyfishing digest on the net you could join.

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I’ve used the one coat Flexcoat building many rods and I like it a lot.  In order to make it a little more workable in  a large finish area, I dilute the finish mix with a small amount of Acetone.  It is very quick to evaporate and leaves me with extra working time in laying a great finish coat on all types of rods. The only pitfall is to make sure that you don’t use too much acetone or your flexcoat will never set up correctly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sage blanks? Actually, you could save yourself some grief. Why? Because Sage will locate the location of the spine with removable white markings. I’ve built three SAGE rods and they all came with the spine marked out. The most difficult part is the coating. Try and get the FLEXCOAT package with syringes, cups and mixtures. There are two kinds of FLEXCOAT: one coat (thick) and several coats (thin). I’ve used the one coat and it works ok but for a more consistent finish, I would try the several coat version. Getting a slow rpm motor to turn the rod while applying the FLEXCOAT would help a great deal. If you can’t borrow one from the local flyshop, any BBQ motor will suffice. Not to worry, you’ll make a great rod! p.s. there’s a flyfishing digest on the net you could join.

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