Question:

…you’re married, right? jeff (with bleedin kneecaps and poor reception) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I tried the "work and you shall earn" bit for quite a  while, so I’m trying  the "beg and you shall receive"  strategy for a change.  It’s a heck of a lot easier  on the feet, but a bit harder on the knees. See the thread that Mu started about Norman Maclean.  Very enlightening.

Response:

It’s hit or miss time for the Batten Kill this time of

Nice TR. Often one learns far more from such days, than days when one "has a ball".  One interesting point you make, is that one of course then has to implement what one learns, just knowing it, does no good! TL MC

Response:

Good report snipped. I sat on the bank and watched hundreds of duns climb up on rocks. I photographed some imago Hendriksons and noticed the brown eyes and segmented red body contrasting from the gray eyes and yellowish body of the subimago.

How about posting them to ABPF? Willi

Response:

How about posting them to ABPF?

Thanks Willi. I will do that. I doubt they’ll come out too good as you need the hi-res one to see the detail. That file is over 2.5M. I will post a few up later. — Gary M

Response:

 I have that problem as well, particularly when  it’s cold & my brain and fingers are numb and  the thought of redoing the leader, tippet, etc.  becomes overwhelming.  Often the best thing  that can happen to me is to snag & break off  my fly; that forces me to act.

You mean fishin’ line and lures, right? — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

 I’ve been tempted, lor’, how I’ve been tempted !  So I get down on my knees and pray, and God  gives me the strength to continue.  And I just  *know* things will get better once I catch a fish…

See the thread that Mu started about Norman Maclean.  Very enlightening. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

It’s hit or miss time for the Batten Kill this time of year. I envy anyone who lives nearby, as they can monitor the peak times of day for activity without the investment of a 150 mile car journey. This same weekend last year the river was high, cold and way too early for large scale Spring hatches (although it was a day in the 60s). This year I thought would be even worse, as this was the first year in 8 years I remember snow on the mountains. On Saturday it was 53F ambient, sunny, with a biting cold wind coming up the valley from New York. Water temps were about 47F. I got suited up at 12:30pm. No insect activity at all, so I nymphed for 1 hour. Missed one nice fish, but I was in a risky spot evidenced by the fact that any shift in weight gave me the sickening feeling of almost being washed downstream. I decided to head up closer to Arlington and I parked near the green bridge on River Road. There was a nice Blue Quill (Iron Blue Dun) hatch coming off and lasted most of the afternoon. No fish working them. Around 2pm, peaking at 3pm and ceasing at 5:30pm the Light Hendriksons started. Strong hatch. No fish worked the duns. Nymphs were not working for me, or any of the two other anglers. I would love to get Dave LaCourse up there, or some other ROFF nymph magician as a litmus test, as I am below average nympher on my best day. I was chilled to the bone from the wind and the water, so I retired to bank and chatted with the other anglers who had done the same. All dressed up with nowhere to go we watched the river alive with bugs and not a single rise. This is not that unusal for Hendriksons early season, the nymphs being preferential to trout, but when the nymphs are working either it is Battenkillitus! A guy from the local Orvis store nymphed through and joined us on the bank. The general consensus seems to be this is the year of the Battenkill’s comeback. He had taken a nice fish on a lure at our present spot a few weeks back, and the other guy had lost a 18-20" brown the week before on an even stronger Hendrikson hatch. Both of the guys gave up and I was about to do the same when I noticed a splash in front of where I was standing. I got in the water and tried to work upstrem to get the best float. I got 10 casts in but the upstream wind and my 12′ 6x leader gave me a case of what I call "delayed, confused dry fly landing" whereby the fly lands 3 feet upstream and 2 secs after the line hits the water. Eagerness prevented me from taking remedial action, until I could stand it no more and I took 3′ off the end. There are many kinds of patience to be acquired when fly fishing and I am deficient in the area of taking my time to get things right on my tackle. I have that irrational fear that the fish will stop feeding, the river will drain away or some other angler will bully in and take the fish first. On this last point, there was no one left on the river … I worked upstream more. Now 5 fish worked in the target area. A few splashy rises I equate with young fish but one was nebbing duns regualarly with hardly an imprint on the surface. Third cast he took my fly and my strike was took fast. He looked to be a couple of inches over a foot long. I never felt weight, but I retrieved a wispy, flyless leader. The fish stopped rising and my one chance that day was gone. I sat on the bank and watched hundreds of duns climb up on rocks. I photographed some imago Hendriksons and noticed the brown eyes and segmented red body contrasting from the gray eyes and yellowish body of the subimago. At 6:30pm I could see no sign of a spinner fall and the   cold was unbearable, so I called it a day. Next day was forecast rain and high 50s. It actually was 30s and ice pellets mixed with snow bounced off the windshield as I drove to the river. I did not suit up. The rest of this week is to be similar weather-wise. I hope this is the year of the Battenkill.  I personally consider this kind of day a good day for me on this river, errors included. Though errors are mitigated by opportunities (when you only get one opportunity it is tough) I will relish the take and forget the "break". Yes, it can be a temperamental, unforgiving and obstinate river, but I do love its challenges. I don’t know if anyone had read John Ingliss Hall’s, "Fly Fishing a Highland Stream". He captures my relationship with this river better than I could ever craft in words. Fingers crossed for 2002. — Gary M

Response:

Question:

First, thanks for all of the replies I received. Tonight I found at least one of the problems and heat makes it worse, not better.  The MCT finish I’ve been used is much less viscous than regular epoxies so it will run easily.  My first and second coats are great, smooth and even.  I should stop there but the third coat always ends up clumping up at either end of the wrap and thin in the middle, giving the wrap a dumbell look, not the the "bubble" look of a factory finish.  I now know why. Where the foot of the guide is ground down, a ramp is formed.  On the first and second coats, the epoxy grips the threads and everything is fine.  On the third coat, the wraps are now covered and epoxy has nothing to grip.  Consequently it runs down the ramp created by the ground down portion of the guide foot.  When the rod is turning and the guide is up, the epoxy runs away from the guide.  When the guide rotates down, it runs toward the guide – result, very little left in the middle.  I realized this when I noticed a blob of excess epoxy flow down the ramp as the rod turned. Who would have thunk it. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I’ve noticed something interesting in the past year or so. The World Wide Web has matured in the following sense. It’s become the primary source for research on many topics, from the mndane to the obscure. It’s been clear for a few years that this would eventually happen, but now it has, and the WWW is just going to become more entrenched and comprehensive. Everyone with Internet access now has a first-class library in their home. In a year it will be a world-class library. In another year it may well be the only library. If you doubt this just go to www.google.com (the finest search engine on the Web) and type in a flyfishing knot. If you can’t find it, don’t complain — make a web site. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Peter try this if you want the bulbous look with MCT finish. This method applies equally to first or later coats.  I always put on two coats at a time.  Put a very thin layer of the stuff, of even thickness over the guide wraps.  The only way to get an even coat like this is to use a very small amount of epoxy so that it forms a film around your wrap (otherwise any thicker amount of epoxy will flow and self level or worse, it may work its way to the edges and you’ll get the dumbell effect).  I coat the entire rod from butt to tip in one sitting with a very thin film of epoxy, just to get the wraps wet.  Since it is thin, and since this epoxy has an evaporative solvent, it begins to thicken faster than the epoxy mixture you have sitting in your mixing pot.  Once you’ve covered all the wraps, go back to the first one and apply a continuous bead of epoxy around the middle of each wrap. The first layer will be wet enough so that you get a smooth transition between this second application and the epoxy you applied several minutes earlier (basically it breaks the surface tension).  Applying a bead of epoxy like this over a completely dried, previous coat will cause the bead to have a "shoulder" and not be smooth (think water droplets on a piece of wax paper).  However, the undercoating by this time has become more  viscous than the second coating you have begun applying and so this second coating tends not to run all the way to the edges of the wrap.  Thus the undercoating is wet enough to break surface tension of the second coat but dried enough to keep the second coat from flowing too easily. The "ramp" that you mention, which is caused by the guide feet under the thread is of course even more pronounced with guide feet for conventional tackle.  Using the above technique, I could easily get the bulbous look on a musky casting rod I built last year.  It took about 5 coats however. For typical snake guides, it takes about 3 coats (well I guess that’s technically 6 coats, but the setup and wait time is not any longer than for three coats since I am always applying 2 coats at a time). MCT’s web site has been down for a while ( 1 week or so ).  I hope they are still in business.  Otherwise I’ll have to start buying Dale Clemen’s Crystal Cote (www.clemenstackle.com). Mu

Response:

Peter try this if you want the bulbous look with MCT finish.

For further clarification, for that "continuous" bead of epoxy, it need not be applied with one continuous stroke of the brush.  "Continuous" just means that it is a connected ring of epoxy around the guide wrap.  Also, when applying the "bead", don’t let the brush touch the undercoat, just bring the tip of it close enough (2 – 3 mm) to the rod so that the epoxy flows off the brush and onto the rod.  A drying motor of less than 10 RPM is preferable for use with the thin finish.  Don’t worry if the excess epoxy flows to the underside of the wrpas as the rod is turning. If fact, that is what you want.  The "ramp" only exits on one side of the rod blank – if viewed down the shaft of the rod, the guide foot might subtend an angle of only a few degrees, the rest of the 360 degrees is just rod blank and the turning will minimize the flowing down the ramp. Mu

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter try this if you want the bulbous look with MCT finish. For further clarification, for that "continuous" bead of epoxy, it need not be applied with one continuous stroke of the brush.  "Continuous" just means that it is a connected ring of epoxy around the guide wrap.  Also, when applying the "bead", don’t let the brush touch the undercoat, just bring the tip of it close enough (2 – 3 mm) to the rod so that the epoxy flows off the brush and onto the rod.  A drying motor of less than 10 RPM is preferable for use with the thin finish.  Don’t worry if the excess epoxy flows to the underside of the wrpas as the rod is turning. If fact, that is what you want.  The "ramp" only exits on one side of the rod blank – if viewed down the shaft of the rod, the guide foot might subtend an angle of only a few degrees, the rest of the 360 degrees is just rod blank and the turning will minimize the flowing down the ramp. Mu

I was doing something along the lines of this and as the rod turned, I watched a bead of epoxy roll around onto the ramp of the foot then flow lengthwise toward the guide.  The reason for the dumbell then became apparent.  I’ve also tried the double application with so-so results on a different rod.  I’m going to give up on the factory bubble and be satisfied with a sealed wrap.  After two coats the rod look great, after three it looked like shit. Thanks for the explanation, but I know when I’m licked. Peter

Response:

Question:

<SNIP IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about.

<SNIP Vern, you were a little over-zealous in your support of this action, and I did warn you that it might get ugly, and to be perhaps a little more circumspect. I am not censuring you in any way, you did what you believed was right, and in a good cause.  You stood up for something you believed in, and you have every right to be proud of it.  Do not let anybody else try to persuade you otherwise.  ROFF is made up of a lot of people, the vast majority are perfectly well aware that what was done was the correct thing to do, irrespective of any hair-splitting debates which may occur as an aftermath. I assume the fact that some of your letters are being touted as "hate-mail" etc is unsettling you. Don’t worry about it, there is nothing in those letters which could upset anybody at all with any sense. Simply the request to the sponsors to withdraw their support. You should see my mail !  I did not realise there were so many dangerous nutcases supporting the killing of Indians, I even got mail from some people claiming to be Indians, saying they supported old Rupe.  They really must be nuts. It will take more than something of this nature to "rip ROFF apart".  Try to calm down a bit.  Go fishing ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

I look at it a little different.  Yes, I was one of the more loud voices. However, I don’t believe anyone wanted FAOL to disappear.  I know I didn’t. Additionally, they don’t have to.  No one’s asking for that.  FAOL is a good web-site that has a lot of good information on it.  We only wanted the last article from Rupe removed.  That’s all.  It was a moral issue.  We took action regarding a possible resolution.  The longer FAOL resisted the more public anger grew.  That’s just normal. Now that the life of FAOL is in question, it’s like dancing on a dying friend.  I don’t see any glory or pride in this.  Furthermore, it’s not necessary.  With the new information about the possible demise of FAOL, the continued debate that has no resolution becomes meaningless.  If a resolution was possible, that would be different because the debate would have purpose.  There is no resolution and there will never be a resolution to the continued treads.  I then ask, why do the threads continuing?  What does everyone want from continuing the debate? Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please. I must say I’m a little bit disappointed in you on this one Vern.  In the first place, the Rupe thing is hardly ripping us apart.  There have been many threads on ROFF which generated a lot more fireworks than this one.  In fact, I’ve found the debate on this one to be remarkably civilized.  This is nothing compared to what goes on in the ubiquitous C&R vs C&K threads.  Hell, even a debate about the definition of ‘meniscus’ can get uglier than this. Secondly, if I’m not mistaken, yours was one of the first and loudest voices calling for action against FAOL.  Mind you, I don’t disapprove of your action; I quite agree that something needed to be done and heartily commend you for taking a lead in informing the sponsors of what was happening.  But it seems to me at this late date that for you to call an end to the whole process, when you were so instrumental in initiating it is a bit disingenuous, especially in light of the fact that Mike has been taking the vast majority of the heat. Again, I don’t have a problem with the action you took, but I am surprised at how little any of the critics had to say to you directly about it.  Now it looks as though you’re trying to duck out while everyone is still focused on Mike’s role and you have escaped unscathed. In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.

Response:

Hi Guys, I have read with interest many of the posts regarding Ole Rupe.  I also read his article.  I have also participated in many free speech arguments in my day.  Some included very competitive national moot court competitions during law school.  I felt it was unnecessary for me to add another $.02 worth of opinions since arguments on the many faceted side of this issue have already been made and made and…..  I just did not want to continue to perpetuate this NON FLY FISHING discussion.  I have seen, heard and made many of these arguments in the past.  (So, I started this non fly fishing discussion with a dab of fishing included) <g. Just FYI, at the present time of approximately 10:35 AM in California, there were 114 and counting posts in the To Whom it may Concern thread and 41 and counting on the FAOL Closure thread.  Whew, what passion! I have read many with interest, and it has been an education for me to see how many articulate and passionate individuals are out there in the fishing world.  I applaud you all for your stands on all sides of the issue. Continue to enjoy those threads, but I have a different motivation regarding the time I spend in ROFF notwithstanding my Mea Culpa re email postage stamps.  Oops, there goes my credibility! To give you a flavor of what we are usually discussing, the fly fishing out here in California is wonderful!  In the Central Valley, we are having a very late autumn.  The leaves on the trees are turning to their fall time brilliant yellows, reds and fire oranges.  I am fishing in light Orvis breathable waders and a light shirt under my fly vest.  The Kings River is producing with reluctance, but it does not matter one iota to me.  Being there is enough for me.  For the first time in my short fly fishing ‘career’ I have tied and caught fish on a size 24 Trico Spinners.  Who would have thunk it?  I still can’t believe my eyes when a 16" fish is caught on such a small bug! Nymphing has been my passion of late though.  I broke off 2 good fish using 6X tippet with a Prince Nymph due to my lack of skill in working fish.  I learned fishing in the early ’90’s going for bass.  I can’t seem to lighten up.  I sometimes still have want to SET THE HOOK.  Hopefully, time and practice will correct this fault. The best part is that I did not consider Old Rupe while I was there on the Kings River. Pete

Response:

I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I have read with interest many of the posts regarding Ole Rupe.  I also read his article.  I have also participated in many free speech arguments in my day.  Some included very competitive national moot court competitions during law school.  I felt it was unnecessary for me to add another $.02 worth of opinions since arguments on the many faceted side of this issue have already been made and made and…..  I just did not want to continue to perpetuate this NON FLY FISHING discussion.  I have seen, heard and made many of these arguments in the past.  (So, I started this non fly fishing discussion with a dab of fishing included) <g. Just FYI, at the present time of approximately 10:35 AM in California, there were 114 and counting posts in the To Whom it may Concern thread and 41 and counting on the FAOL Closure thread.  Whew, what passion! I have read many with interest, and it has been an education for me to see how many articulate and passionate individuals are out there in the fishing world.  I applaud you all for your stands on all sides of the issue. Continue to enjoy those threads, but I have a different motivation regarding the time I spend in ROFF notwithstanding my Mea Culpa re email postage stamps.  Oops, there goes my credibility! To give you a flavor of what we are usually discussing, the fly fishing out here in California is wonderful!  In the Central Valley, we are having a very late autumn.  The leaves on the trees are turning to their fall time brilliant yellows, reds and fire oranges.  I am fishing in light Orvis breathable waders and a light shirt under my fly vest.  The Kings River is producing with reluctance, but it does not matter one iota to me.  Being there is enough for me.  For the first time in my short fly fishing ‘career’ I have tied and caught fish on a size 24 Trico Spinners.  Who would have thunk it?  I still can’t believe my eyes when a 16" fish is caught on such a small bug! Nymphing has been my passion of late though.  I broke off 2 good fish using 6X tippet with a Prince Nymph due to my lack of skill in working fish.  I learned fishing in the early ’90’s going for bass.  I can’t seem to lighten up.  I sometimes still have want to SET THE HOOK.  Hopefully, time and practice will correct this fault. The best part is that I did not consider Old Rupe while I was there on the Kings River. Pete

Response:

Take it easy, Vern. We’ve had similar blow-ups here before, but eventually everyone chills out… About a week ago – at least a couple of days before Mike’s first post wrt RAOL, I responded to someone (I think it was Jon Cook) that the extended period of Peace On ROFF "was just the calm before the next storm". I had no idea I’d be THAT correct! /daytripper (ROFF is cyclical ;^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please.

Response:

I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please.

I must say I’m a little bit disappointed in you on this one Vern.  In the first place, the Rupe thing is hardly ripping us apart.  There have been many threads on ROFF which generated a lot more fireworks than this one.  In fact, I’ve found the debate on this one to be remarkably civilized.  This is nothing compared to what goes on in the ubiquitous C&R vs C&K threads.  Hell, even a debate about the definition of ‘meniscus’ can get uglier than this. Secondly, if I’m not mistaken, yours was one of the first and loudest voices calling for action against FAOL.  Mind you, I don’t disapprove of your action; I quite agree that something needed to be done and heartily commend you for taking a lead in informing the sponsors of what was happening.  But it seems to me at this late date that for you to call an end to the whole process, when you were so instrumental in initiating it is a bit disingenuous, especially in light of the fact that Mike has been taking the vast majority of the heat.  Again, I don’t have a problem with the action you took, but I am surprised at how little any of the critics had to say to you directly about it.  Now it looks as though you’re trying to duck out while everyone is still focused on Mike’s role and you have escaped unscathed. In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.

Response:

snip<

No sweat, Vern.   This is just one of those discussions that helps bring another dimension to the faceless names here.   Nobody really gets too pissed off, and we get to learn a little bit about each other.   It’s not really a bad thing; it’s what we seem to be.   And after it’s over, we’re still friends (mostly <g).   Nobody would put any of this ahead of a day on the water.   Aside from a waste of bandwidth, it’s harmless, and sometimes fun. Joe F.

Response:

In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t

look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.< As I said initially, I was out of town, missed the start.   Hmmm, Vern, eh?   Should I start all over again?  <g

Response:

Ah, yes, fishing!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. <SNIP Vern, you were a little over-zealous in your support of this action, and I did warn you that it might get ugly, and to be perhaps a little more circumspect. I am not censuring you in any way, you did what you believed was right, and in a good cause.  You stood up for something you believed in, and you have every right to be proud of it.  Do not let anybody else try to persuade you otherwise.  ROFF is made up of a lot of people, the vast majority are perfectly well aware that what was done was the correct thing to do, irrespective of any hair-splitting debates which may occur as an aftermath. I assume the fact that some of your letters are being touted as "hate-mail" etc is unsettling you. Don’t worry about it, there is nothing in those letters which could upset anybody at all with any sense. Simply the request to the sponsors to withdraw their support. You should see my mail !  I did not realise there were so many dangerous nutcases supporting the killing of Indians, I even got mail from some people claiming to be Indians, saying they supported old Rupe.  They really must be nuts. It will take more than something of this nature to "rip ROFF apart".  Try to calm down a bit.  Go fishing ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

You’re my man, Ken. I got your back.

Ditto.  In spades.

Response:

To Debate is interesting and often educational, to Argue, name call and belittle is not…

Is so.   Ignorant Twerp.      

Response:

Wolfgang the bully, writes:

<<Is so.   Ignorant Twerp.       Boy, I’m glad you did tell ol Jim to BMAIAL.  I have that one.  Even use it in my address for anti-spam.  Don’t know what I would do without it.  <g Dave L.

Response:

David, This is so off the mark that I really got a good laugh out of your post.  One thing I have never been accused of is to be a closet anything, or to hide behind anyone.  My wife would really get a kick out of this (BG).  We have a good friend living on Bainbridge Island, and my impression of the place is that a lot of spoiled aging yuppies lived there.  I’m afraid that you have reinforced that image in my mind. Ken, I expected more from someone with an edu address.  "Frogboy"??  (LOL).  I guess it fits that the edu address goes with living in a very sheltered environment. You want to use the word fuckin and you have to use ***’s??  As far as hard-earned flyfishing dollars, you should try to make your living in the real world (G). Kermit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken Oh they take it seriously. They’re the closet racist’s who provide a respectable chorus line to guys like Rupe, and love to hide behind well meaning folks who honestly wonder where the free speech line is, or who are honest political conservatives. The dead giveaway is that they have no bottom line. Ive run into them before here in the NW,  home of the Aryan Nations. They know that murderous remarks like Rupe’s are important because they intimidate minorities from participation in many activities and forums. Its very effective and a lot less risky that acting out their bullshit at work, bombing a church or killing someone on a dark road. They are gutless. They are wacko’s. But they are not stupid. Dave I am bothered by the article, but I would not have taken it seriously anyway.  But I am much more bothered by the pc mob mentality that I witnessed here.  I don’t feel that there is anything to be very proud off here. Blow it out yer ass, frogboy. Just because you’re too f***in’ stupid to take seriously the most vile and vicious racial epithet that can be hurled at Native Americans is no reason to demean the many good people of ROFF that are QUITE proud that this little piece of racist garbage is no longer sponsored by good companies competing for our hard earned flyfishing dollars. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Now I just have to figure out how to suspend a reference line over my head next time out on the pond or a lake… Michael Era

Question:

Okay gang, what would be on your ideal fly fishing web site?  And what sites come close to your ideal? Jeff

Thosands of people should reveal their honey holes, and no one should be able to access the site but me. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Okay gang, what would be on your ideal fly fishing web site?  And what sites come close to your ideal? Jeff

Response:

Okay gang, what would be on your ideal fly fishing web site?  

Tech stuff: 1. Smart technology design, made to maximize usability on different client configurations. No Frames, No Java, No Java script, No Banners, No animated gifs, No excessive graphics, No risky and non fail-gracefully code, No excessive tables, No overdoing lay-out with html – settle for structure. 2. Universal non-plattform specific readability in terms of fonts and colors. 3. Keep it simple! 99 of a hundred trying to be fancy end up looking like complete and utter imbeciles. Let your content speak for it self, don’t fuck it up with bad design decisions. 4. Do not split long pages into several small ones (common sense applies, though). 5. Make it fast and effortless for visitors to figure out the structure of your website, latest updates and contents (search-engine, what’s new-overview, site map). Do not make your site look cool for the uninterested drooling 7-year old who will visit your site once or twice. Make it functional for your frequent visitors. Read this: http://photo.net/wtr/thebook/ And check out http://www.w3.org/ as well. That is the easy part, now the hard stuff. Content guidelines: 1. Only do stuff you or your staff is knowledgeable on. 2. Do things well and complete, or don’t do them at all. You get no extra points for putting it on the web. The Internet is 20 years old and maturing every minute (ROFF excepted of course . Sucky things aren’t cool any longer just because they are on the web, they just suck. 3. Allow feedback and publicly available comments on everything (interactive). Share what you know, and let others share what they know related to your site. 4. Update regularly. Don’t suddenly take a 6 month absence without notice. Be committed, and stay that way. Content: Firstly, take a look at the major search engines, and see what sites are out there. A million or two. Find anything missing? Or a concept that could be substantially improved upon by you? 1. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about another site set out to help newbies figure the most basic things. There are plenty of those already (I assume). 2. Neither do I pursue sites which focuses on technical fly fishing stuff, like hatches, insects, knots, rods, technique etc. Of course, an extensive site of this would be interesting, and definitively worthy of a bookmark, and be used as a reference. If the site is somewhat less then really really really great (which will require insane amounts of work), it’s not interesting to me at all. Remember, hundreds of books has been written on these subjects by very knowledgeable people. Be better, or be gone. 3. I want personal stuff. I like pictures and I enjoy stories. I want someone who is adept at writing to share his thoughts and experiences with me. I may be a weirdo, but I tremendously enjoy reading other people’s stories from fly fishing outings/trips. I want to know how they feel, what they are thinking, what happens etc, almost like a diary. Be willing to share. You can probably tell me very little about fly fishing, but you can probably tell me very much about yourself as a fly fisherman. Write a book about it, and put the chapters on your website. Offer intelligent and lengthy stuff. Screw those who gets a headache from reading more than a few minutes straight. Write it so good, that non-fly fishers will enjoy it as well. 4. Be humble, and expect nothing in return. 5. Write in Norwegian, so I can fully enjoy the subtle linguistic concept. (ok, this one is rather optional) That’s how the ideal fly fishing web site is to me. Quite easy, actually. Make one, and I’ll visit regularly, if I like your style. — Christian Figenschou – <URL: http://figen.com

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J. OK, I’ll say it again.  The postings do little if anything to describe any form of action, avoidance or deterrence that can be applied.  This particular thread was started with an account of Miss Australia of 1950 losing an arm to a shark.  They are simply sensationalism with little content other than "isn’t it terrible"

Ahem! Was she Miss Aussie before or after the incident?

Response:

Food for thought: There are millions of sharks eaten by humans for every human eaten by a shark!

Response:

This is why "shark bites man" is better news material than "man bites shark". But I also fail to understand why the sensational takes precedence ofer the sensible. — Anders Svensson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Food for thought: There are millions of sharks eaten by humans for every human eaten by a shark!

Response:

This guy is crossing posting to several newsgroups and receiving complaints in each.  He is trying to sell some sort of shark repellent that doesn’t always work, but it provides psychological support in an attack because it might work. I sell a magic bracelet that does exactly the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Bob

It is amazing to see how interested you are in all of my postings(as it would been easy for you to skip over them as soon as you saw my email address associated with them, but you didn’t). Guess what? You are wrong again as I have nothing to do with the sales/marketing of either technology at the moment. How  do you know what the SharkPOD can do(other then from accessing the Web site below)? You surely have never tested the SharkPOD before, have you? How do you know what the Australian technology can do as you have never tested that technology before either(I had heard that it is working very well with baited sharks off Australia as I am waiting to get hold of a prototype to use myself)? You sure have a lot to say when you have probably never even seen a shark underwater before(except for on your television). What’s the matter? Afraid that an effective shark repellent will take away the market share that your "magical bracelet" currently exploits? Regards, Jim Morris http://starbulletin.com/97/12/22/features/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J. OK, I’ll say it again.  The postings do little if anything to describe any form of action, avoidance or deterrence that can be applied.  This particular thread was started with an account of Miss Australia of 1950 losing an arm to a shark.  They are simply sensationalism with little content other than "isn’t it terrible" Ahem! Was she Miss Aussie before or after the incident?

For anyone who believes that the threat from sharks should not be considered as a possibility when in a survival situation(depending on the venue), I refer you to the book, ADRIFT, which was written by Steve Callahan(who is now a writer/editor with CRUISING WORLD magazine). Mr. Callahan was adrift in a life raft(after his sailboat hit what he thought was a whale)for seventy plus days and was hounded by sharks! Mr. Callahan’s ordeal took place in the Atlantic/Caribbean and is eloquently described in his book, ADRIFT. For another example in the Pacific, what about the USS Indianapolis disaster where survivors of the initial sinking(the Indianapolis was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine)were ravaged by sharks as they floated in the ocean hopefully awaiting rescue? Please try to observe Memorial Day in some way. Best wishes, Jim Morris http://starbulletin.com/97/12/22/features/index.html

Response:

Food for thought: There are millions of sharks eaten by humans for every human eaten by a shark!

And good food they are….

Response:

Food for thought: There are millions of sharks eaten by humans for every human eaten by a shark! And good food they are….

Yes, but this is very small consolation to those humans. john

Response:

I may not worry at all at 10 million to 1, but I have a personal rule of never trying anything that has less than a one in 10 thousand chance of resulting in death or permanent disability.

…is life sorta a bore?

Response:

Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested.

I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide.

Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J.

OK, I’ll say it again.  The postings do little if anything to describe any form of action, avoidance or deterrence that can be applied.  This particular thread was started with an account of Miss Australia of 1950 losing an arm to a shark.  They are simply sensationalism with little content other than "isn’t it terrible"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. I have to disagree. As both a sailor and scuba diver (planning an extended cruise in the Pacific) shark awareness is key. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Quite true. Agree 100% – but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn more about those risks. And frankly, for cruisers in the Pacific the odds of coming into direct contact with sharks seems much higher than 10,000,000:1. Knowing how to deal with them when you encounter them can help prevent the incident from becoming life threatening. Ignoring the issue does not help. J. OK, I’ll say it again.  The postings do little if anything to describe any form of action, avoidance or deterrence that can be applied.  This particular thread was started with an account of Miss Australia of 1950 losing an arm to a shark.  They are simply sensationalism with little content other than "isn’t it terrible" Ahem! Was she Miss Aussie before or after the incident? For anyone who believes that the threat from sharks should not be considered as a possibility when in a survival situation(depending on the venue), I refer you to the book, ADRIFT, which was written by Steve Callahan(who is now a writer/editor with CRUISING WORLD magazine). Mr. Callahan was adrift in a life raft(after his sailboat hit what he thought was a whale)for seventy plus days and was hounded by sharks! Mr. Callahan’s ordeal took place in the Atlantic/Caribbean and is eloquently described in his book, ADRIFT. For another example in the Pacific, what about the USS Indianapolis disaster where survivors of the initial sinking(the Indianapolis was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine)were ravaged by sharks as they floated in the ocean hopefully awaiting rescue?

I know that sharks exist, I know that shars bite. I read ADRIFT.  I know that sharks can be a threat. When are you going to add something that goes beyond the above.

Response:

If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide.

Interesting…  I enjoyed the post anyways.  What are the actual chances of being attacked by a shark in:         1) known infested areas         2) the open ocean         3) worldwide I may not worry at all at 10 million to 1, but I have a personal rule of never trying anything that has less than a one in 10 thousand chance of resulting in death or permanent disability.

Response:

<snip Is there some other newsgroup in which this would be more appropriate? Sharks are a totally insignificant part of boating and yet you pasting these exclusively in boating newsgroups.  Perhaps the folks in some of the natural history or hydrosciences would be more interested. If I spent my life in fear of everything that was a 10 million to 1 shot I would just crawl under my bed and hide. Since you are posting via dejanews from an earthlink account, I suspect this is some sort of bizarre troll.

Response:

I am based in Los Angeles but had heard about that awful attack on the couple hanging on the anchor line where the gentleman pushed his newly-wed wife out of the way, and he was taken himself off of Australia. Hi Jim As much as I would love to help you with information I would be unable to put you in touch with the lady in question.  The reasons being in the past twelve months she has re-married and also had her first child a month ago. I really think she now has her tramatic experience behind her and is trying to get on with things.

That was a very harrowing experience for her, and I can understand how she would want for it to be behind her. However, your friend can take comfort in knowing that her husband really loved her in doing what he did for her. I did a shark dive last year at Nassau, Bahamas with a lady by the name of Heather Boswell. Before Heather attempted to do a shark dive with me for the NBC WEEKEND TODAY show(which was televised throughout the USA on July 13th, 1997), Heather had been attacked by a five meter plus white shark while she was swimming on the ocean surface over a hundred miles offshore of Chile. Heather was swimming with some friends in calm seas off of a NOAA research vessel that they were crewing on. A friend was videotaping them all in the water(and captured the attack on video in the process)when a huge dorsal fin appeared(Heather later indicated that it looked to be at least a meter tall above the water as it approached her). The shark started attacking a gentleman who was sitting upon some type of surfboard. He managed to drive it away by apparently poking the shark in the eye. The shark then turned its attention to Heather who was nearby in the water. Rescuers were trying to reach Heather in an inflatable boat which was dispatched from the larger NOAA vessel. They actually had a hold of her before the shark started to attack Heather. However, because of the sunscreen lotion that Heather was wearing, she slipped through the arms of the one of the rescuers, and the shark grabbed her leg and started to take her down into the depths. It was at that point that Heather felt sure she was going to die according to what she told me and NBC. She just wasn’t sure if she should intake water to drown herself or simply let the shark continue to eat her and die that way. Amazingly, the shark returned Heather to the surface at which point the rescuers were able to grab her again. However, this time the rescuers were in a "tug-of-war" with the shark, and Heather was the "rope". Heather heard a "popping sound"(thinking that her leg was being dislocated)as she broke free. However, once inside the boat, Heather looked down and saw that her leg had been bitten off at mid-thigh(Heather lost a lot of blood and almost died via exsanguination/shock). Meanwhile, the shark must have been very hungry as it started to attack another lady who was desperately trying to pull herself out of the water (using netting which was thrown over the side of the NOAA vessel). However, the lady was overweight and was having a very difficult time getting herself out of the water. At that time, a high-powered rifle was finally deployed to drive the shark away. It is assumed that the shark was killed, but this is not known for sure. I am all for the conservation of shark species worldwide. However, the above situation was an obvious exception. Over a year after the above attack, Heather showed amazing courage by accepting an invitation to shark dive with me in the Bahamas for the NBC WEEKEND TODAY television program. However, once the sharks appeared on scene with us at Nassau, Heather requested to discontinue the dive(understandably so). Nonetheless, her courage for even attempting the dive and the positive attitude that she radiates in her daily life are inspiration to us all. Eco continues about diver(newly-wed couple)who was killed by a white shark off of Australia: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the US talkback shows contacted her some time back (they were doing a show on tragic widows) and offered to fly her over to appear but she clearly had no desire to go through the events again.  Understandably so. I do not have any clearer details of the attack except what I posted.  The attack happened at Byron Bay which is considered out of the usual territory of a white pointer (it was in warm water up north).  The attack was quick. They saw it on the bottom, her husband pushed her and by the time she managed to turn around she only felt the force of the sharks tail. I’ve forgotton the exact size but from what I can remember it was the max. for the species.  A fishing boat did later hook it, it was longer than the boat, and it dragged the boat for miles, it regurgitated some stomach contents and broke free. There was talk of it being a sick/rogue shark due to its location. I am most interested to see if such electronic shark repellent technology could have prevented the above attack. I was the first to test the SharkPOD in the USA(off the coast of Los Angeles for the Discovery Channel, "Next Step" television program which is to be broadcast internationally if it hasn’t been already-it has already been broadcast twice throughout the USA. Ron and Valerie Taylor were the first to test the SharkPOD in Australia. I had met them both in Singapore during the ADEC dive equipment trade show where the SharkPOD was first being released commercially. You’ve met Ron and Val Taylor !!!  Now they are shark lovers extraordinaire !!!!   That Val Taylor is one brave lady.  Amazingly dedicated couple.

Yes, I had met both of them and have been in touch with them via email from time to time. I am a fan of their work as well. For more detail on my SharkPOD testing, please access the Honolulu Star- Bulletin Newspaper article which I had appeared in throughout the Hawaiian Islands on December 22, 1997: http://starbulletin.com/97/12/22/features/index.html Sounds really exciting !   I remember seeing a show where they were investigating using  some sort of sonar "wall" instead of netting.   IE; transmitter placed and one point – receiver at other end further down the coastline to prevent sharks entering the swimming area.  They were testing the concept with some sort of sonar wand that repelled the sharks. It was tricky stuff as the shark had to get close enough for them to prod it with the want but it was trying to ascertain whether the idea would work.  Do you know of any developments with this??

Not really. But will look into it for you. I am all for anything that helps the sharks and other sea creatures.  Our shark nets over here are marine animal death traps.

Me too. Did you see my earlier post on how the shark netting program in South Africa was being reduced because of budget cuts to the Natal Sharks Board (which supervises the netting program there)? The Star-Bulletin article was mostly accurate. However, the SharkPOD is not a "sonic" device as the article mistakenly depicts in the opening paragraph. Instead, the SharkPOD emits a continuous, cocooning electrical field which is intended to protect from possible shark attack. I will soon be using another electronic shark repellent technology which is currently being developed in Australia(by another manufacturer)and is being billed as an even more effective electronic repellent than the SharkPOD. I will be using this Australian technology with tiger and grey reef sharks throughout the Hawaiian Islands. Also with tiger, bull and lemon sharks in the Bahamas. And with great white sharks off of Dyer Island, South Africa. Thank you for providing your information.  It was very interesting.  I have been lucky enough to encounter sharks while diving – something one doesn’t forget in a hurry !!

Agreed! Look forward to email exchanging with you again..

Response:

Question:

Jim: In addition to the excellent suggestions made by Bob, I would suggest you also look at Cortland and Reddington.  Both make rod/reel/line combos, probably falling somewhere in between the low and medium price range.  Cortland’s usually includes a video that may be helpful.  Also, the Sage Discovery series has a combo that is worth a look that isn’t exhorbitantly priced.  All of those manufacturers will have dealers somewhere that should allow you to try the rods before buying, to see what feels best for you.  On the mail order side, Cabela’s has a number of combos available. Of course, a good fly shop will be able to work with you and put together a package that works too. Once you’ve got all that stuff, you’ll need some flies.  They seem to run between $1 and $2 apiece for decent flies where I live.  Hopefully you’ve already got some waders and wading shoes/boots. URL’s Cortland  <http://www.lightlink.com/cortland Cabela’s  <http://www.cabelas.com While looking at the combo packages, don’t think that because they are less expensive than the top of the line they are junk.  On the contrary. You may eventually want to move up in quality, but a good package from a good manufacturer should serve you in good stead for quite some time (until you just gotta have that high end Winston, Loomis, T & T etc. <grin) Good luck and happy shopping. Ron.

Response:

Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight.  The 5 is incredibly versatile for trout and other freshwater fish, while the 9 will give you a great saltwater rod for bluefish, stripers, bonefish and permit, as well as offering you the opportunity to pull in some big steelhead.  You can get the whole nine yards from Orvis for around $400 for each rod/reel combo–and that includes the line and cases.  Of course, you’ll also want to invest in a good pair of waders, a vest, flies, etc…my advice would be to talk to a guide in the area where you will be doing most of your fishing. Enjoy. E

Response:

Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight…

Jim, This is the beginning of the end. Once you’ve got the five weight and the nine weight, and a reel and line to go with each, and the jacket and the bags, and the flies and the boxes, you’ll be in too deep to get out. Like the rest of us. Andrew                     The History of Fly Fishing             http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight… Jim, This is the beginning of the end. Once you’ve got the five weight and the nine weight, and a reel and line to go with each, and the jacket and the bags, and the flies and the boxes, you’ll be in too deep to get out. Like the rest of us. Andrew                    The History of Fly Fishing            http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

        Dear new found friends- I really wanted to thank all of you for your generosity of time and advise- I’ve quite frankly been amazed at the number of you in the NG that were willing to spend the amount of time you have to help a total neophyte.  Of course I realized after receiving some response that I was too ignorant to have given you all any pertinent info about what the heck I might be trying to catch-Dah!!         So let me fill you in about who you were trying to help         I’m a 55 yr old about to retire dentist- and before any of you start to wonder about why I shoul give a darn about how much this stuff costs- I must add that I’m also in possesion of the first dollar I ever made- enough said.  I’m in Ohio and plan to fish local waters for smallmouth and panfish.  I also wish to fish for trout around the Petoskey, MI area and to accompany my 82 yr old uncle ( who is still an avid trout guy) out west.         The real reason for the post was that I had heard(my ignorance) stories about $2000 outfits.  So I went to the local sportschain store to see for myself what a flyrod actually looked and felt like. They had complete outfits that really looked to me to be kind of junky and the personnel had NOT a clue about flyfishing- even I figured that out.         So although I pretty much knew I didn’t want the junk I also wasn’t real keen on walking into a REAL shop and being talked into $2000 worth of stuff without any knowledge of the alternatives.  You guys have been so kind as to give me inumerable sorces of quqlity gear at reasonable getting started prices and for that I am very grateful!!         So thanks again for the input and you should be proud of your knowledge and the "art" that you share so willingly with others.                 With kindest personal regards,                                 Jim PS.  And Dr. Andrew- Sorry but I fear that I got in "too deep" several weeks ago in Michigan.  I stood on the banks of a small stream for quite a while watching entranced as one of your compatriots plied his magic with fly rod on the stream- it was very close to a spirtual experience that I believe I want to share beside all of you.

Response:

   Could you please, if you have the time and inclination, list some tackle and gear combinations in perhaps three general price combinations- Low,Med, Top of the line.  I’d be interested in specific brand recommendations so that I can research these.

The gear market is quite a varied lot right now, so I’ll just give you some average rod/reel/line combo prices, okay? Bargain Basement End:   (Shakespeare, etc. ) $50 Low End:  (Orvis Clearwater, Bean Angler, etc.)  $150 Middle Ground:  $300 High End:  $600+ Ridiculous End: (custom bamboo, etc.)  $1500+ Depending upon your financial situation with your pending retirement, I’d recommend you jump in on the Low to Middle Ground.  I’m not sure what you’re fishing for, but for a standard trout rig, I’d recommend that you buy a decent rod, a top-end flyline, and a reel….in that order of importance.  (IMHO).  For fish under 6 lbs, with a reasonably stout tippet/leader, a click-pawl style reel will serve you nicely. For larger fish or lighter tippets, consider upgrading to a disc-drag style reel.  The more popular manufacturers/retailers in the industry today are Sage, Loomis, Orvis, LL Bean for rods.   I’d highly recommend trying a few rod/reel combinations from a local flyshop to see what type of action/length, etc. that you prefer.  The shop owners will also be able to point you to the other "necessities" which you’ll need.      Also, could you point me toward URL’s that have online catalog pricing or that I can order printed catalogs.

Here’s a couple that will start you on your research. www.llbean.com      (L.L. Bean….ask for a FFing Spec. Catalog) www.orvis.com     (Orvis….same as above) There are others online too , but both of these retailers have a range of products to illustrate the price ranges mentioned above. Good Luck! Bob Skehan

Response:

   I’d be interested in some kind folks giving me some input as to the general start up costs involved in starting out on this adventure.  My it is very difficult- not to mention TIME consuming-to reply to- so I wouldn’t be suprised if I don’t catch anything from this post- we all have our time consrtaints- but let me thank you in advance if you are kind enough to reply.    Again, thank you for you kind consideration,            Regards, Jim

I think you’re making a good choice to get involved if flyfishing.  If nothing else, your retirement won’t be boring.   I don’t have any sage advice to pass on, but; I do have a short story. I read all of the books and learned to flyfish basically by myself.  I had been actively flyfishing (mostly once or twice a month) for about ten years.  We were visiting Reno NV. for a few months and I was really injoying the fishing in the Truckee River there.  I’d come home in the evening and tell my wife all of the great stuff I’d done and what a wonderful day I’d had.  After a while, she wanted to join in the fun.  She asked me if she minded if she learned to fish and came fishing wiht me.  I told her I would love it she joined me but, I was unsure of my ablilty to teach her to fish (I was also a little worried about the friction me teaching her to fish would cause). Being a very smart woman, she understood my position.  She got on the phone and called the fly shop in Reno (I don’t recall thier name but I think it’s the only one in town).  She explained her situation to them, and asked for help.  What they offered was simple, two days with and veteran guide and the use of thier equipment.  The first half of the first day was inside she learned the knots and terminology she needed.  After lunch, she learned to cast.  The next day, they fished. I don’t remember what she paid for this but it seems if was just a regular guide fee for two days.  After fishing, she was hooked and bought an outfit they recommended to her (actually a bargain clearout model they happened to have). After those two days of concentrated instruction, she could fish as well as I after all of my years of reading and trial and error.   It worked out perfectly for me.  I got a good fishing partner I enjoy being with and didn’t screw up a good marriagre trying to teach how to fish.  Not only that, her  being good has pushed me to learn more and take advice from everyone I see.  Since then (thats been about 12 years ago)  we have taken guided trips together and gone to classes that have interested us.  And of course, we have fished together and had some great times. So, I guess the morale of my story.  Hire someone that knows the sport to learn the basics.  Take thier advice on equipment.  If you fish in a new area hire a guide for a day and pick his brain as much as you can.  And above all, don’t get big headed and think you know more than the next guy you meet on the water.  His advice may be the one thing you need to have a good day.   Well hope my rambling didn’t go on too long, and good luck. Steve Russell

Response:

        I’d be interested in some kind folks giving me some input as to the general start up costs involved in starting out on this adventure.  My background is some infrequent spinner baiting for bass and, of course, I’ve drowned a few worms in my time.  But I’m about to retire and want to enjoy some of the finer things in life- fly fishing has always appealed to my sense of imagination as the ultimate art form regarding a combination of sport mingled with a satisfying environmental experience- so I’d like to at least try my hand at it.         I have a general understanding from years of hard experience, that in many cases using inferior equiptment may NOT give me the degree of satisfaction that is possible when you have the finest- but there is a degree of practicality involved in jumping into anything new , so what I would really be interested in is this-         Could you please, if you have the time and inclination, list some tackle and gear combinations in perhaps three general price combinations- Low,Med, Top of the line.  I’d be interested in specific brand recommendations so that I can research these.         Also, could you point me toward URL’s that have online catalog pricing or that I can order printed catalogs.         I am quite aware that this is such an open ended question that it is very difficult- not to mention TIME consuming-to reply to- so I wouldn’t be suprised if I don’t catch anything from this post- we all have our time consrtaints- but let me thank you in advance if you are kind enough to reply.         Again, thank you for you kind consideration,                 Regards, Jim

Response:

Question:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

Response:

I use a quick double nail knot and then super glue it. I’ve been using this method on 9 through 13 wt. lines without any problems. This seems to be a standard method down here in South Florida. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

Response:

I just used a single nail knot on mine and it has held through  several dozen tarpon and miscellaneous other fish.  I put a coat of cement over the top, primarily  to smooth it out.  There are probably better knots, but this one was good enough.  good luck. I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

– Tim Ackerman "everyone lives downstream"

Response:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

Is that a solid monocore or a braided monocore?  If it’s a solid core I would normally strip off a few inches of coating, tie an overhand knot in the core and slide the butt through it, then tie a nail knot with the butt to the core, being sure to snug it down against the overhand. George Anderson and I tested this knot on the Monic line last year and it seemed to be the only one that was 100%. Marshall

Response:

I just got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

        A needle nail knot.  No matter how slippery the line may be,         that one’s not going to come loose.                                         Tom Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 External Research Program                          FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

Response:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

We use the Albright knot to attach the butt section to the front of the flyline. On the rear of the line we fold it back to form a small loop. We then nail knot it twice to form a loop. We tie a Bimini Twist in the backing and loop that to the flyline. We use Goodyear Pliobond cement on all the knots to make them more streamline. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Similar to Tom’s suggestion:  make a loop out of braided mono, slide it over the fly line, tie a nail knot with 10-12# mono at end of braided mono, then touch it with a drop of "super glue".  This will give you a loop for loop-to-loop connection and it won’t come off. Dave Cornue

Response:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section? Is that a solid monocore or a braided monocore?  If it’s a solid core I would normally strip off a few inches of coating, tie an overhand knot in the core and slide the butt through it, then tie a nail knot with the butt to the core, being sure to snug it down against the overhand. George Anderson and I tested this knot on the Monic line last year and it seemed to be the only one that was 100%. Marshall

What people call slime line are those clear no-core lines.  They look like a fat mono. Nix on the needle knot. I found with the mastery stillwater and only one nail knot that it squeezed the slime line until it weakened and slipped or broke.  I use and found a good and easy knot is to tie two or three nail knots in a row.  Just leave the tag line 12 inches long on the first one, cinch it tight, then tie another a half-inch up the line. Before you pull this one tight, slide it a bit up the line so it will all be smooth when you pull it tight. Repeat again if you wish. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

I jsut got the Mastery Series Bonefish line (sinking) which looks extra slippery. Does anyone have a suggestion on what knot to use to attach the butt section?

THE ALBERTSON KNOT. Mr. G.

Response:

Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Question:

Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny.

Do you happen to know the specific name of the cherry salmon, Naohisa? Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike

They belong to the same family as salmon and chars, but the genus name is Thymallus for NA fish.  I don’t know anything about he European grayling. Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? Dave

Response:

Thanks Kat, I realized shortly after making that quick post I was in error.  Same family, wrong genus! -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do grayling fit in?   Char! -burton No, grayling are grayling (genus Thymallus), not char (genus Salvelinus). However, both grayling and char are members of the family Salmonidae. and the inconnu is a big, mean whitefish (Stenodus leucicthys). Do check backwards in your threading if you can, because George Gehrke posted rather a motherlode of info about the inconnu. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

Where do grayling fit in?   Char! -burton

No, grayling are grayling (genus Thymallus), not char (genus Salvelinus). However, both grayling and char are members of the family Salmonidae. and the inconnu is a big, mean whitefish (Stenodus leucicthys). Do check backwards in your threading if you can, because George Gehrke posted rather a motherlode of info about the inconnu. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

The inconnu is NOT a minnow. — Gary

Response:

: The inconnu is NOT a minnow. This is indeed true. The inconnu (known as "shee" in much of Alaska, and "coney" in some areas) is a whitefish, and hence a salmonid. They do grow much larger than other whitefish species – a probable upper limit is around 80 lbs – and forage fish make up the major part of their diet. Their jaws are not underslung – in fact, the mouth does resemble that of a tarpon. It’s pretty safe to say that an inconnu bears as much resemblance to other *whitefish* as a tarpon bears to other *herring*. They are found throughout the far north, particularly in the Yukon and Mackenzie drainages. The fish spend some part of their lives in salt water, though what portion is unclear for some watersheds. I have seen native fishermen unloading netted inconnu at Ft. Resolution, NWT, which is at the mouth of the Slave River. This is about 1250 miles from salt water, so it is possible that these fish spend much, perhaps even all, of their time in Great Slave Lake. On the other hand, a fish caught well down in the Mackenzie Delta, or in some coastal river in Alaska, is probably in and out of the saltwater on a week by week basis. As with all northern fish, growth is slow and the fish live a long time. In Great Slave Lake, for example, it takes 7-10 years to produce a spawning sized lake trout (17-20 inches, 2-3 lbs) and the very large fish are figured at 1 – 1.5 years per pound. Fish having access to saltwater, including lake trout, arctic char, and (presumably) inconnu, will grow considerably faster. George’s projection that a 50# inconnu might be 150 years old is stretching it a bit, but 30-40 is indeed possible. Great care must therefore be taken when deciding to keep *any* northern fish – you can do a lot of damage in a short time. 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [some deleted just for the hell of it...] T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis" You got the order family ralph, but messed up on the genus and species. TimW Oh get your hand out of your pants!

You tellin’ me I can’t fly fish at work ? TimW

Response:

Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. Where do grayling fit in?

  Char! -burton

Response:

Where do grayling fit in?

Same family as (gasp!) mountain whitefish Charlie Quinton

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [some deleted just for the hell of it...] T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis" You got the order family ralph, but messed up on the genus and species. TimW Oh get your hand out of your pants! You tellin’ me I can’t fly fish at work ? TimW

Well if it gives you a thrill… but be carefull some lithe young thing doesn’t come by to catch and kill your trouser trout!

Response:

Philip Jones of the U.K. asks if we have grayling over here. Yes, but our Arctic grayling (Thymallus arctics) is not the same as the European grayling (T. thymallus). They’re pretty much alike, except that  our grayling has a larger, and often more colorful dorsal fin, and those I’ve caught have been generally smaller than the ones I’ve caught in Europe, especially in Sweden, Croatia, and Slovenia.         Mike Uetz’s buddies must be fishing in the vicinity of Churchill, Manitoba, because that’s about the only place you should find both grayling and searun brook trout (char). Grayling waters are all west of Hudson Bay. In the U.S., Canada has scads of ‘em, but in the Lower 48 we have only a relict population in western Montana. Michigan used to have them (and even has a town named Grayling), but they were extirpated by habitat destruction, pollution, and possibly overfishing.         My Montana grayling aficionados fish for them with size 28 Trico patterns, but in Alaska, they’ll attack almost anything, even the big spoons and Mepps spinners favored by salmon, pike, and muskie fishermen. In Europe, I have found that grayling will take a wide variety of flies, from Red Tags to hairwing salmon flies.         An odd thing: From time to time, especially in Sweden, I’ve had European grayling strike and miss repeatedly. At other times, they are as likely as Arctic grayling to nail a flie on the first strike. In Croatia and Slovenia, I found them to be extremely picky at times in Slovenia and very, very choosy in Croatia. — Gary Soucie / Writer / Editor / Editorial Consultant Traveling With Fly Rod and Reel * Home Waters: A Fly-Fishing Anthology * Soucie’s Field Guide of Fishing Facts *  Hook, Line, and Sinker: The Complete Angler’s Guide to Terminal Tackle

Response:

Do you have grayling in N America?  They are just now coming into their own in the UK – along with the first frosts.  They are a very welcome Winter attraction whilst the salmon and trout spawn. It is said that the grayling, Thymallus Thymallus, smells of thyme and acquired the name because of this.  I have never been able to detect the smell of thyme.  Cucumber, possibly.  They are lovely fish!  Sometimes easy to catch, sometimes impossible – amazing how they always select the Red Tag from a cast of three flies! — Phil Jones

We have them but you pretty much need to go to the borreal forest area (aka a long way from where I live) to get at them.  Most guys I know have fished for them on fly in trips as a change of pace from lake trout or northern sea run brook trout. Mike

Response:

Where do grayling fit in?

They are Thymallus which is a different genus from above ones.  In fact, they are in different sub-family, Thymallinae.  Salmon, trout, and char are in sub-family Salmoninae. Family Salmonidae has three subfamily, Salmoninae, Thymallinae, and Coregoninae (whitefishes). NK

Do you have grayling in N America?  They are just now coming into their own in the UK – along with the first frosts.  They are a very welcome Winter attraction whilst the salmon and trout spawn. It is said that the grayling, Thymallus Thymallus, smells of thyme and acquired the name because of this.  I have never been able to detect the smell of thyme.  Cucumber, possibly.  They are lovely fish!  Sometimes easy to catch, sometimes impossible – amazing how they always select the Red Tag from a cast of three flies! — Phil Jones

Response:

Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout.

Cunnilingus humongous:  Trouser Trout,  Pants Python,  Levi Lizard TimW

Response:

[some deleted just for the hell of it...] T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis" You got the order family ralph, but messed up on the genus and species. TimW

Oh get your hand out of your pants!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Do you happen to know the specific name of the cherry salmon, Naohisa? Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike They belong to the same family as salmon and chars, but the genus name is Thymallus for NA fish.  I don’t know anything about he European grayling. Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? Dave

No – don’t know about inconnu (in fact, isn’t that what inconnu means – unknown?) but I know about S Salar, S Trutta and T Thymallus in the UK. Each of them is great.  Would you like me to tell you about them? — Phil Jones Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? The inconnu, Stenodus leucichthys, is a large, predatory whitefish which lives in the Far North. It has a basic salmonlike shape, with large scales, a deeply forked tail, and a large head with a very large mouth. It migrates into rivers in June and July and spawns in the fall. It ages slowly and can weigh over 50 lbs. It is the only predatory member of the whitefish tribe found in North America. Its common name is French for "unknown". — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Tarpon of the North"  It spends most of its feeding year in the brackish waters of bays where fresh water and salt flats mix.  The Inconnu is by far, one of the largest minnow species known to man.  Its mating cycle is not only buried in mystery, until recently as fifteen years ago when an expedition I was on made a major study of them.  Basically, it goes like this. The big females come up river such as the Kobuck River just above the Artic Circle where I fished for them with Jim Teeney, in early fall. The moon phase has to be just right.  The tidal cycle has to be just right, the temperatures have to be just right, the river sandy bottom has to be just right, and many things we yet don’t know . . . has to be just right for spawning to take place. Just finding these ‘Fish of Mystery’ was the hardest thing as they slip into long ridges of sand that run with the river but cross-wise, look like the letter ‘m’ in which at the top of the ‘m’ these fish lay in long rows in the sand valleys.  They simply, wait.  For weeks, they will wait and when the magnetic fields, the moon, the temperature, including all the wizardry that mother nature can throw at you . . . the females, burgering with roe/eggs that are rich, very small, and white hinging on white/yellow they come to the surface . . . as if trying to swim to the moon.  The females backs will come to the surface and they will start releasing eggs.  Millions of them and along with them the males eject sperm in copious amounts to mix with the now drifting eggs.  The timing has to be absolutely perfect. Now fertilized, these eggs . . . which are very sticky, start to sink down and along these long trenches of sand and they settle to the bottom.  But that isn’t the final act. The little eggs start to roll along the sand and it sticks to the eggs and sure enough, they become camoflauged and other preditory fish cannot find them anymore because these very small eggs have no smell, they become invisable, and they become somewhat buried in the sand trenches. Life, begins to take form.  It is soon enough, left alone to fend for themselves for the Tarpon of the North leave the young behind to return to the call of the salt that is in their blood.  They race for the sea! Never to return again until next fall. The food fair of the Inconnu is probably the finest of all fish that God ever put in water.  It is twice as good as walleye and the roe makes White Sturgeon Roe seem ridiculas as table fair. Inconnu is by far the richest, most tastefully wonderful roe in the world.  You literally slice it like you would cross-ways a loin.  You fry it in butter, a touch of garlic if you like and a sprinkle of parsley and lace with a smile of fine pepper and sea-salt.  You may wish to try frying in a skillet braized with a slice of bacon.  No more is needed, if anything. Your mind, will literally scream in estacy. The Shee Fish (another name for this wonderful game fish in which I set the IGFA first world record) grows slowly.  Its age at fifty pounds is well over a hundred and fifty years old.  It would be nothing for a ten pounder to be thirty five years old . . . and as table fare, against age, killing a Shee Fish is really a rather mindless thing to do these days as more and more anglers discover them.  It would take a real man to realease a large Shee Fish.  In those days, we had to keep a rare damaged fish because there where those in the party that used treble hooks (guides) who were not all fly fishermen and the Indians up around the Kobuck River don’t give a damned about anything except government dollars and if it moves, kill it or feed it to the dogs.  There is no shame in Alaska . . . yet. The Shee-Fish will give you exactly three excellent jumps that are as Tarpon-like as you could hope for and five jumps is somewhat rare but possible.  It is an exciting fish to hunt and is not a fish for every body to enjoy.  Gut-em and Eat-em is possible just once on a little one as they will average five or six pounds.  But without exception, and Inconnu that exceeds ten pounds should be released. I hope this helps in your interest in one of the greatest mysteries of the late 20th Century, until the last dozen or so years. If you go in pursuit of the Inconnu . . . go with a kind and understanding heart.  You will catch fish as old as yourself, most likely and certainly older than your children.  Life, at this pace is not food for life. Mr. G.

Response:

Cherry salmon = Oncorhynchus masu (in older taxonomies also listed as O. rhodurus and O. biwa)         To K’s good answer on inconnu, all I will add is that some anglers refer to it as sheefish, and it’s also sometimes called conny or Eskimo tarpon. — Gary Soucie / Writer / Editor / Editorial Consultant Traveling With Fly Rod and Reel * Home Waters: A Fly-Fishing Anthology * Soucie’s Field Guide of Fishing Facts *  Hook, Line, and Sinker: The Complete Angler’s Guide to Terminal Tackle

Response:

Do you happen to know the specific name of the cherry salmon, Naohisa?

You mean thier scientific name?  It is Oncorhynchus masou. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike They belong to the same family as salmon and chars, but the genus name is Thymallus for NA fish.  I don’t know anything about he European grayling.

Same.  Europian grayling is Thymallus thymallus. Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is? Dave

? Naohisa

Response:

Another question: Does anyone happen to know what an inconnu is?

The inconnu, Stenodus leucichthys, is a large, predatory whitefish   which lives in the Far North. It has a basic salmonlike shape, with large scales, a deeply forked tail, and a large head with a very large mouth. It migrates into rivers in June and July and spawns in the fall. It ages slowly and can weigh over 50 lbs. It is the only predatory member of the whitefish tribe found in North America. Its common name is French for "unknown". — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. Cunnilingus humongous:  Trouser Trout,  Pants Python,  Levi Lizard TimW

T-bone…. in a taxonomic class all his own. "Giganticus Dicki Brainius Coloradoensis"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK Where do grayling fit in? Mike

They are Thymallus which is a different genus from above ones.  In fact, they are in different sub-family, Thymallinae.  Salmon, trout, and char are in sub-family Salmoninae. Family Salmonidae has three subfamily, Salmoninae, Thymallinae, and Coregoninae (whitefishes). NK

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taxonomy of salmon is still messy, but the general agreement is as follows: Oncorhynchus: Pacific salmon = chum, chinook, pink, coho, sockey(kokanee),                                and masu (Asia).               Trout = rainbow (steelhead), cutthroat, golden.               Masu salmon (cherry salmon, or yamame) is placed into               between North America Pacific salmon and trout in phylogeny. Salmo: brown trout and Atlantic salmon Salvelinus (char): lake trout, brook trout, Arctic char, Dolly Varden,                    white-spotted char (Asia), and bull trout. NK

Where do grayling fit in? Mike

Response:

Question:

I will be taking a two week trip to the yukon canoeing down the Yukon river this summer and would like to know if anyone has done this before. I would like to fish for grayling, artic char etc and would appreciate hearing from anyone what flies & methods i should use. If anyone has done this trip fishing or not, please drop me a line

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be taking a two week trip to the yukon canoeing down the Yukon river this summer and would like to know if anyone has done this before. I would like to fish for grayling, artic char etc and would appreciate hearing from anyone what flies & methods i should use. If anyone has done this trip fishing or not, please drop me a line

Response:

My Name: My, this reminds me of an incident that I wittnessed while I was stationed at Galena Air Force Station in 1963/64.  Galena is located on the banks of the Yukon river in central Alaska. I and some friends were drinking beer and cooking hamburgers/hotdogs one afternoon when we spied a canoe pulling up to shore where we were. As soon as the canoe was pulled up on shore the two occupants split at a trot in different directions without saying a word to us or each other. We got a good laugh out of this and continued eating and drinking. The next day I talked with one of the canoeists and he said that they had seen so much of each other and hardly no one else that they were ready to pitch in and fight each other and had been at each other’s throat for a while.  I guess they finally settled their differences as they left a day or two later in the canoe and together. The feude undoubtly arose out of the ever present bowman/sternman dispute. The bowman can’t pick a route and the sternman can’t steer. So don’t ( as they say in the Eastern Shore of Delaware ) "fall into a fight" with your partner. Richard Warren Raleigh, NC

Response:

Question:

Hi, a brand new german internet fly-fisherman is around ! I am sorry if a cause some troubles here, but it is my first time in the internet and i wanted to take a look at the worlds computer-fly-fishermen. So if i produce any mistakes in here, I AM SORRY !       Would be nice if somebody talks to me, just to see that i am right in here.    CU, bye…….

Response:

Hi, a brand new german internet fly-fisherman is around ! I am sorry if a cause some troubles here, but it is my first time in the internet and i wanted to take a look at the worlds computer-fly-fishermen. So if i produce any mistakes in here, I AM SORRY !       Would be nice if somebody talks to me, just to see that i am right in here.    CU, bye…….

Hello and welcome. It’s always great to have flyfishers from different countries. I lived in Germany for 3 years and had some great fishing experiences there. Tchuss! Cal Harris — Fishin Buddy  o <<     o  |           These opinions are offered by weight  <     <  o       <J           provocative content may have occurred      <<       <<                    during shipping and handling.

Response:

Howdy,     you are hear and heard…always nice to have someone from across the water join in.  Maybe you can tell me about Huchen if you have ever had the oportlunity to fish for them.                     Petri Heil                          Mike Leitheiser, Portland, Oregon

Response:

Hi from around the world. Enjoy the ‘net and aloha, |Robert (aka: Bob) B. Graham – NINC-HON               Office: (808) 523-4500| |(Nerd-In-Chief Honolulu)                               Home: (808) 395-9360| |City & County of Honolulu           Prodigy: WTKW87A                       |  I have a vice, that vice is fishing – time stops, I’m in a different world.

: Hi, : a brand new german internet fly-fisherman is around ! : I am sorry if a cause some troubles here, but it is my first : time in the internet and i wanted to take a look at the worlds : computer-fly-fishermen. So if i produce any mistakes in here, : I AM SORRY !       Would be nice if somebody talks to me, : just to see that i am right in here.    CU, bye…….

Response:

This thread is great! Does any one know if there is an IRC session on FFishing? That is where real time conversation can take place and our German friends can participate. I’m a Fly fisherman and amateur astronomer. On sundays an #ASTRONOMY session held. Folks from uk, as, fr and others participate. A FFishing session would be great too.

: Hi, : a brand new german internet fly-fisherman is around ! : I am sorry if a cause some troubles here, but it is my first : time in the internet and i wanted to take a look at the worlds : computer-fly-fishermen. So if i produce any mistakes in here, : I AM SORRY !       Would be nice if somebody talks to me, : just to see that i am right in here.    CU, bye……. —  Remember amateur astronomers: "keep looking for the next Universe"

Response:

bob- glad to hear u made it on to the net and welcome.  no doesn’t seem like u caused any prblems but how the fishing in germany?  currently i am in Manchester, New Hampshire, USA and while its alittle cold here and the seasons is on hold the fishing was tremendous this summer and fall in our northern rivers and streams.  also was terrific out west in Wyoming and Montana where i spend three weeks every year.  so i guess we have u to blame for all these german browns that thrive in our rivers, well i can tell u they get pretty big over hear.  well lots of luck.                                                  tight lines

Response: