Question:

Know nothing about fly fishing. Was in Colorado River County park Parker, AZ couple weeks ago. They have a pond next to the river and separated by net. A lady sitting there keep throwing hook(?) out and keep getting trout(?) up. The waiting time is like couple minutes. It must be the place to build your confidence. My wife had a chat with her. She is from Washington State and been there for 3 months now.

Wonder if it is the same lady that was hauling in nice catfish last year using hot dogs for bait? LZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – =

Response:

 VC is 20 minutes down the road.  I could certianly take you on a tour if your in the area and show you some stuff that is not on the brochures.

Been to Virginia City and loved it!  Will let you know next time. Hunter

Response:

Know nothing about fly fishing. Was in Colorado River County park Parker, AZ couple weeks ago. They have a pond next to the river and separated by net. A lady sitting there keep throwing hook(?) out and keep getting trout(?) up. The waiting time is like couple minutes. It must be the place to build your confidence. My wife had a chat with her. She is from Washington State and been there for 3 months now. =OK.  I got a new RV so I could get on the road and not worry about the oil =leaks and dry rot on the older 76 rig.  I love that old rig, but would not =take it more than 100 miles from home (my safety zone).  Now I’m free.  I =added a 2000/4000 watt inverter and solar panels so I could boondock and not =have to listen to the generator and I carry two 50 gallon drums of fresh =dinking water in a trailer in addition to the water in the MH tank.  So I =can boondock, but don’t have to. = =I’m in Reno, NV.  I love the west.  I love the outdoors.  I like to =walk/hike, ride mountain bikes, use metal detectors to find relics, have ATV =but rarely use it.  But my true passion is fly fishing.  I just started a =few years ago when my brother in law gave me lessons and gear as a birthday =present.  I started tying my own flys, but have yet to catch something on my =own creations. = =So now the question of the day is, where am I going next month on a two week =vacation.  I’d like to go somewhere around end of March or beginning of =April.  And a bonus would be an opportunity to spank a turkey, but if going =to Canada would probably opt to leave guns behind. (I know I can take a =shotgun, but don’t want to).  So…if you were based in Reno, where and why =would you go?  Where would you stay?  Tell me about your experiences. = =I’m getting so excited about this I can’t focus at work. = =Thanks for any suggestions. = =Nate = — E-Mail: Cool Underscore Underscore Hand at Hotmail DOT KOM FAX: 775-243-6288 One of the BEST Free GPS Mapping Program Garmap http://www.catnet.ne.jp/fukuda/garmap/e_garmap.html Since people makes mistakes, how can we trust any interpretation of anything?

Response:

I’m in Reno, NV.  I love the west.  I love the outdoors.  I like to walk/hike, ride mountain bikes, use metal detectors to find relics, have ATV but rarely use it.  But my true passion is fly fishing.  I just started a few years ago when my brother in law gave me lessons and gear as a birthday present.  I started tying my own flys, but have yet to catch something on my own creations.

You’re asking the wrong newsgroup. Take this question to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly for ideas on where to go in your area, there are posters there who live in your vicinity. And also check into rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying for the obvious reason.

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<snip I’m in Reno, NV.  I love the west.  I love the outdoors.  I like to walk/hike, ride mountain bikes, use metal detectors to find relics, have ATV but rarely use it.  But my true passion is fly fishing.  I just started a few years ago when my brother in law gave me lessons and gear as a birthday present.  I started tying my own flys, but have yet to catch something on my own creations. So now the question of the day is, where am I going next month on a two week vacation.  I’d like to go somewhere around end of March or beginning of April.  And a bonus would be an opportunity to spank a turkey, but if going to Canada would probably opt to leave guns behind. (I know I can take a shotgun, but don’t want to).  So…if you were based in Reno, where and why would you go?  Where would you stay?  Tell me about your experiences.

<snip Have you been to the Hat Creek area in No. California?  It’s world famous for it’s fly fishing – don’t know about turkey season.  There are several Forest Service Campgrounds on Hat Creek that runs along Highway 89 north of Lassen Park.  One that is out of the way and right on the creek is Big Pine, part of the Lassen National Forest campground system.  I believe that it can handle units up to 26′ in length but it might be 24′ and they only have about 20 sites.  There are several others in the area but many are right next to the Highway and not as quiet during the day.  You can look at some of them at their website: http://www.r5.fs.fed.us/lassen/hat_creek.htm.  Weather would still be a bit on the cool side at night but daytime temps should be pleasant and the countryside is hard to beat. Baby Sis

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK.  I got a new RV so I could get on the road and not worry about the oil leaks and dry rot on the older 76 rig.  I love that old rig, but would not take it more than 100 miles from home (my safety zone).  Now I’m free.  I added a 2000/4000 watt inverter and solar panels so I could boondock and not have to listen to the generator and I carry two 50 gallon drums of fresh dinking water in a trailer in addition to the water in the MH tank.  So I can boondock, but don’t have to. I’m in Reno, NV.  I love the west.  I love the outdoors.  I like to walk/hike, ride mountain bikes, use metal detectors to find relics, have ATV but rarely use it.  But my true passion is fly fishing.  I just started a few years ago when my brother in law gave me lessons and gear as a birthday present.  I started tying my own flys, but have yet to catch something on my own creations. So now the question of the day is, where am I going next month on a two week vacation.  I’d like to go somewhere around end of March or beginning of April.  And a bonus would be an opportunity to spank a turkey, but if going to Canada would probably opt to leave guns behind. (I know I can take a shotgun, but don’t want to).  So…if you were based in Reno, where and why would you go?  Where would you stay?  Tell me about your experiences. I’m getting so excited about this I can’t focus at work. Thanks for any suggestions. Nate

I liked the Laughlin area (way far south Nevada, about 100 Miles S of LV), right by the Colorado river, very warm (even in the winter), has a few lakes, lots of RV parks, lots to do, Bull Head City and Kingman AZ across the river, lots of boondocking places not far away, and even a bit further south is Lake Havasu. I liked it so much I went there for vacation for two weeks, and ended up staying 6 months. Laughlin, Nevada – Laughlin Nevada’s Official Web Site. Check out their website at: http://www.enjoylaughlin.com/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK.  I got a new RV so I could get on the road and not worry about the oil leaks and dry rot on the older 76 rig.  I love that old rig, but would not take it more than 100 miles from home (my safety zone).  Now I’m free.  I added a 2000/4000 watt inverter and solar panels so I could boondock and not have to listen to the generator and I carry two 50 gallon drums of fresh dinking water in a trailer in addition to the water in the MH tank.  So I can boondock, but don’t have to. I’m in Reno, NV.  I love the west.  I love the outdoors.  I like to walk/hike, ride mountain bikes, use metal detectors to find relics, have ATV but rarely use it.  But my true passion is fly fishing.  I just started a few years ago when my brother in law gave me lessons and gear as a birthday present.  I started tying my own flys, but have yet to catch something on my own creations. So now the question of the day is, where am I going next month on a two week vacation.  I’d like to go somewhere around end of March or beginning of April.  And a bonus would be an opportunity to spank a turkey, but if going to Canada would probably opt to leave guns behind. (I know I can take a shotgun, but don’t want to).  So…if you were based in Reno, where and why would you go?  Where would you stay?  Tell me about your experiences. I’m getting so excited about this I can’t focus at work. Thanks for any suggestions. Nate

A friend of ours can’t wait to get back to Oregon for the spring salmon fishing on the Umpqua.  I think the season opens on the 23rd of March. Spring turkey hunting would be pretty iffy.  I don’t know of any state that sells non-resident licenses over the counter, except maybe in the south.  Many are by lottery only and you have to apply long in advance. Have fun. LZ

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 So…if you were based in Reno, where and why would you go?  Where would you stay?  Tell me about your experiences.

If I got a new rig I would do a shakedown weekend up the hill in Virginia City. Hunter

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… I carry two 50 gallon drums of fresh dinking water in a trailer in addition to the water in the MH tank.  So I can boondock, but don’t have to.

Hey, Nate. What are you going to do with the "used" water? Maybe you could pump it into a couple of empty 50 gallon drums, carried for the purpose. I’m in Reno, NV.  I love the west.  I love the outdoors.  I like to walk/hike, ride mountain bikes, use metal detectors to find relics, have ATV but rarely use it.  But my true passion is fly fishing.  I just started a few years ago when my brother in law gave me lessons and gear as a birthday present.  I started tying my own flys, but have yet to catch something on my own creations. So now the question of the day is, where am I going next month on a two week vacation.

… Any place in the Great Basin is going to have cold nights. If you don’t mind a bit of snow, in addition to the cold nights, how ’bout the Ruby Mountains, about 10 miles south of Elko? There’s a Nat’l Forest campground there (check to Web). –RW

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 So…if you were based in Reno, where and why would you go?  Where would you stay?  Tell me about your experiences. If I got a new rig I would do a shakedown weekend up the hill in Virginia City. Hunter

I failed to mention that I did 26 shake down trips to various lakes in Northern California and North Western Nevada last summer.  Been there, done that.  VC is 20 minutes down the road.  I could certianly take you on a tour if your in the area and show you some stuff that is not on the brochures. We used to hunt rattle snakes in the area so bring some snake shot!  Yikes! Nate

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OK.  I got a new RV so I could get on the road and not worry about the oil leaks and dry rot on the older 76 rig.  I love that old rig, but would not take it more than 100 miles from home (my safety zone).  Now I’m free.  I added a 2000/4000 watt inverter and solar panels so I could boondock and not have to listen to the generator and I carry two 50 gallon drums of fresh dinking water in a trailer in addition to the water in the MH tank.  So I can boondock, but don’t have to. I’m in Reno, NV.  I love the west.  I love the outdoors.  I like to walk/hike, ride mountain bikes, use metal detectors to find relics, have ATV but rarely use it.  But my true passion is fly fishing.  I just started a few years ago when my brother in law gave me lessons and gear as a birthday present.  I started tying my own flys, but have yet to catch something on my own creations. So now the question of the day is, where am I going next month on a two week vacation.  I’d like to go somewhere around end of March or beginning of April.  And a bonus would be an opportunity to spank a turkey, but if going to Canada would probably opt to leave guns behind. (I know I can take a shotgun, but don’t want to).  So…if you were based in Reno, where and why would you go?  Where would you stay?  Tell me about your experiences. I’m getting so excited about this I can’t focus at work. Thanks for any suggestions. Nate

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know. Willi

i guess i should have been clearer….. a floatant or sinkant? …could care less about the brand names… walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.    (snip)    nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

It is a wonderful time of the year. Hopefully, Sir Louie and I will experience the same in a Grand River Autumn. Peter

Response:

Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

   Hungry and moody. I spent two hours yesterday afternoon on the river Willi and I call our home water. I was dazzled by the shimmering yellow aspen trees, and saddened by the feeling that another fine season of fishing is winding to a close. During my first hour on the water, I hooked 17 fine fish; every spot that looked like it may have EVER held a fish yielded one. About the time I started to feel like I was a pretty talented fisherman, the action ceased. I used every trick in the book to catch another five fish in two more hours. Sheesh.

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Petah Charles writes: It is a wonderful time of the year. Hopefully, Sir Louie and I will experience the same in a Grand River Autumn. Peter

What?  You aren’t guarantying fine weather?  Well, if we get rained out (muddy waters and all), Joanne, Joanne and I will sit around a bottle of single malt and shoot the breeze. (Looking forward to it) Dave

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i guess i should have been clearer….. a floatant or sinkant? …could care less about the brand names…

When fish have moved into shallow feeding areas and are feeding on small stuff ie midges, bwo’s etc. I use a floatant on the leader up until the last few inches. If there isn’t too much glare, you can follow the floating tippet and often see a flash from the fish taking the fly or see the tippet move with a take.  If there is too much glare, I’ll use a very small smear of florescent biostrike? (a putty like stuff)to give me something to follow. Takes are generally very subtle when fish are feeding on this small stuff. I use quill bodied flies quite a bit and if the quills are not coated with cement, they absorb water and sink well. Willi

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Autumn’s soft, midday light that has lost its summer intensity, allows good fish to move into very shallow pockets of water with just enough current to hide them [snip] . Fights seem a bit more determined and the colors a bit more intense.

I drove over to your fine state a week ago for the first time, while I only fished the South Platte near Deckers and the eleven mile canyon, I managed to find a little solitude and hook some of your fine colorado fish with 20 and 22 BWO’s. I can’t tell you how great it was to be fishing again and while I’m sure there are better streams in CO than the So. Platte but for two days it was heaven to me. Great post and you are a lucky man to live in such a beautiful place. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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I like those warm days following a sub-freezing night when the fishing doesn’t start picking up until 11:00am, and then it’s over by 4:00pm. [good stuff snipped]

Great post, rw. Thanks for the imagery. You gotta love the crisp weather of the mountains in fall. –Steve

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When fish have moved into shallow feeding areas and are feeding on small stuff ie midges, bwo’s etc. I use a floatant on the leader up until the last few inches. If there isn’t too much glare, you can follow the floating tippet and often see a flash from the fish taking the fly or see the tippet move with a take.  If there is too much glare, I’ll use a very small smear of florescent biostrike? (a putty like stuff)to give me something to follow. Takes are generally very subtle when fish are feeding on this small stuff. I use quill bodied flies quite a bit and if the quills are not coated with cement, they absorb water and sink well. Willi

gotcha….. I’ve tried floatant on my leaders and tippet for small midge fishing. I’m not sure if it helps or not but I do know that when I "mud" the tippet for emergers, very small nymphs, or wets I seem to get more takes. I also like to keep a tight line fishing this style with a little twitch every few seconds. Takes are generally sound with that style and for c/r the hook is usually in the mouth versus deeper in the throat or gills. I usually have a long leader/tippet, 12′ +, when fishing this way. report: for all you roffians headed’ this way, the delayed harvest rivers have been stocked for the fall/winter fishing. The Watauga is running low, we can’t seem to shake this drought. –Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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The Watauga is running low, we can’t seem to shake this drought.

Supposed to rain this weekend up by Robbinsville (Forty effect I presume), maybe you’ll get some too. — Charlie…

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I drove over to your fine state a week ago for the first time, while I only fished the South Platte near Deckers and the eleven mile canyon, I managed to find a little solitude and hook some of your fine colorado fish with 20 and 22 BWO’s. I can’t tell you how great it was to be fishing again and while I’m sure there are better streams in CO than the So. Platte but for two days it was heaven to me.

The Platte is/was a fine river. It holds many good fish. However, with its proximity to Denver and Colorado Springs it is the heaviest fished river in the state. The section around Deckers has the reputation of being a very difficult river, especially for people fishing it the first time. Congrats on having success. Willi

Response:

Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry. Autumn’s soft, midday light that has lost its summer intensity, allows good fish to move into very shallow pockets of water with just enough current to hide them.  Large fish wait in water barely deep enough to cover their backs to feed most efficiently on the small emerging bugs. A careless wade sends the fish shooting back into the pools leaving wakes of water in their path. A tiny fly on a long, light, greased leader is the key. A cast several feet above the lie lets the fly sink just enough to interest the fish. No weight, no indicator. Just a flash in the shallow water or the nudge of the floating tippet. Takes are hard and confident and the pressure from the strike sends the fish airborn. Fights seem a bit more determined and the colors a bit more intense. Willi

Response:

Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

    (snip)     nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

Response:

Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.     (snip)     nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Willie wrote;Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

This sounds like a fairy tale to me. I don’t think there will be an Autum in Texas this year…mabye in January. It is still in the mid 90’s and I have a hard time calling that Autumn. Big Dale

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very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with?

With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know. Willi

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

That sounds like the Stanley area, Willi, but our Autumn probably comes earlier than yours. The good Autumn fishing here is at about 7000 feet. I like those warm days following a sub-freezing night when the fishing doesn’t start picking up until 11:00am, and then it’s over by 4:00pm. There are just enough hoppers to keep fish looking at the surface, but the serious fish-catching is done with common nymphs — the perfect setup for a "hopper/dropper" rig. The water is skinny and the fish are concentrated in holes. This is easy fishing, once you get there. I can roll out of bed late, build a fire, make coffee and bacon and eggs, and take my time planning the trip. Then I can come home in daylight. Perfect. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know.

Red Mucilin works a lot better than G*** for greasing tippets. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ?

That’s a superb idea, Fred. Everyone knows that Western flyfishing is better than Eastern flyfishing. I’m tempted to volunteer to host it, but I don’t think I’ll be ready this year. Maybe next year. If someone else wants to organize something in the Western Rockies count me in. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? That’s a superb idea, Fred. Everyone knows that Western flyfishing is better than Eastern flyfishing. I’m tempted to volunteer to host it, but I don’t think I’ll be ready this year. Maybe next year. If someone else wants to organize something in the Western Rockies count me in.

The Western Rockies would be great – next year might be best, that’ll give folks a chance to do some planning.     http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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<<Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? Gehrke is coming from the fine northwestern state of Washington. If you do have a western clave, count me in. Dave LaCourse

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<<Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? Gehrke is coming from the fine northwestern state of Washington. If you do have a western clave, count me in. Dave LaCourse

____  I suppose if we held it here, I’d have to take all you guys on these remote float trips, jet up the Snake River and/or fish for wild cuttrhroat like it was 200 years ago in a wilderness? egads.  the thought of it. Mr. G.

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Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? That’s a superb idea, Fred. Everyone knows that Western flyfishing is better than Eastern flyfishing. I’m tempted to volunteer to host it, but I don’t think I’ll be ready this year. Maybe next year. If someone else wants to organize something in the Western Rockies count me in.

        now, now, boys, don’t y’all fret yourselves about a little ol clave organization job.  fortunately for you big sky folks, little wayno’s outfitters (we never close) has just expanded its service area to include the entire western united states.         for a nominal sum (contact the undersigned *only* for details), lwo’s, as we are called in the buckhead section of atlanta, will provide you with the time of your life.  of course, certain, um, "services" are actually provided by big joe’s flesh emporium of nasty, colo., but we can assure you of an event that will be burnt into your memories for eternity.         we’ll need a 50% advance and a ten day lead time.  glad to be of assistance. for the firm wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — something bogus to avoid spam)

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        we’ll need a 50% advance and a ten day lead time.  glad to be of assistance.

hell, you’ll have spent all the money in less than 10 days….. waldo the reelist —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS/HOME.HTM

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____  I suppose if we held it here, I’d have to take all you guys on these remote float trips, jet up the Snake River and/or fish for wild cuttrhroat like it was 200 years ago in a wilderness? egads.  the thought of it. Mr. G.

They had jetboats in the late 1700’s? C’mon G, now I don’t even believe that. Big Al

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They had jetboats in the late 1700’s?

Yes, they did.  All tricked out and ready to go.  Fortunately, gasoline had yet to be invented so everyone sat around lookin’ at ‘em and saying, "Damn! I wish someone ‘ud invent gasoline so we could go tearin’ around like maniacs and ravage us an ecosystem!".  Whale oil was available but didn’t have a high enough octane rating.  Eventually the jetboats were abandoned in favor of dugout canoes.  Thought you’d want to know. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ?     http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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Question:

I’ve got Chesapeake Light Craft Boats and Pygmy Boats Inc. Does anyone have other kit makers for wood/fiberclass ocean boats? Any experiences good or bad with building a wood boat? Annie Oakley’s Casting & Blasting Page, shooting and fly fishing links: http://members.tripod.com/~AnnieOakley/CastAndBlast.html "Web Poison"–FREE anti-spam software:http://www.e-scrub.com/wpoison/ Phoney Spam-Bot Link: http://www.e-scrub.com/cgi-bin/wpoison/wpoison.cgi

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Nomad Sea Kayaks.  I have been told they make a good kit. http://www.clic.net/~nomad/ Mark

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Nomad Sea Kayaks.  I have been told they make a good kit. http://www.clic.net/~nomad/

I was considering one when I bought my kayak but couldn’t find anyone that knew anything about them. They are also fiberglass only, not wood/fiberglass.   The Guillemott boats (wood) look interesting as well: http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ I saw a boat in shop in Duck, NC (outer banks) a couple of weeks ago.  It had a fiberglass hull with a wood deck with wood hatch covers.  I have no idea what kind of kit it was built from but the owner of the shop built it and was selling it for $450. Seemed like a real good deal. John Fereira

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Question:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I understand that the Cherokee was never built on a truck chassis, a remanufactured car chassis was used. As for me, my 1978 4×4 Chevy Blazer with 264,000 miles with tattered seats but Michelin radials provides me with all the back country access I could ever want.

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Another dissatisfied Cherokee (1988) owner here.  To be fair, I purchased mine just before American Motors was purchased by Chrysler.  Anyway, the engine crapped out before 50K miles, and it had been cared for in a manner better than was recommended in the owner’s manual.  Also, I had an extended warranty on the vehicle (paid extra for of course).  Anyway, the "adjuster" from Chrysler reviewed my claim and disallowed it because "it was obviously abused or it wouldn’t have had the problem."  Went round and round, countless letters, I replaced the engine (at my cost) and vowed I would never purchase another (now) Chrysler product, ever!!  Later, I read in a news account about the numbers of Jeeps that had similar problems.  I now have a Toyota 4Runner, with no complaints after 90K+ miles.  Change the oil every 3K miles, follow recommended maintenance, new gas once a week and air the tires once a month.  It runs and runs and runs….. — Ron Eaton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Your brother’s pickup reminds me of a 1970 Datsun pickup I bought in 1980 for $500.  The speedometer had broken at 100K and it was beat up, but the engine purred like a kitten.  It was the same engine they used in the 280Z sports car.  I fixed the dents, slapped a coat of paint on it, installed some shocks, king pins, tires, and a set of brakes, then took it fishing all over the Sierra Nevada Mountains in Northern California for the next ten years.  It went every place a road crossed a trout stream.  There wasn’t much head room and I kept the seat belt tight because the overload springs could put your head through the roof, and I didn’t lean on the door because a sharp bump could put the window crank through your rib cage, but it was a great fishing vehicle.  Finally sold it to a guy for $500 who wanted it for his gardening business. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

I used to take mine off road but don’t so much anymore since I got my D90. The Cherokee did OK off road though. FWIW. Charlie…

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Driving on a salt water beach will raise hell with most vehicles unless you hose it down thoroughly with fresh water when you are through.  We drove down the beach in Northern California to go smelt dipping and perch fishing with a jeep, but always hosed it down and never had a problem.  Of course this was in 1948.:-) — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Sorry this message is not related to 4X4’s (but I will be driving a 98 Dodge real soon) rather I wqs wondering if anyone from Alberta"Canada used this newsgroup? And I am in the market for a new 4-5 weight 81/2 foot rod? Any good sug?  Anyway…have fun and may the trout rise…(corny).

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

Hell I drive a Taurus Sedan myself. It pulls up nicely to the lots that are only a few steps or a short walk down into the stream I seen a neat little comic about 4 wheel drive, something in the order when the guy was ready to pull out of a supermarket, he felt it was time to put it in 4 wd to go over a speed bump.  Sounds like most of the 4wd’s in our area…. — Randy P.E.T.A. people eating tasty animals

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If you want a reliable vehicle buy a Toyota 4WD pickup — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. T. Rick Fletcher  

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My "fish car" is a five year old Toyota 4X4 pickup. Total maintenance costs (so far) consists of oil, filters, and one set of tires. Goes anywhere and always starts.   My wife drives the hated Grand Cherokee. I’d take it fishing if she’d let me, it’s more comfortable and more powerful than my Toyota, and the stereo really cranks. I think the Jeep straight six is one tough motor, it’s the niggling details (power windows, A/C) that keep it in the shop.   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure, we’re going FISHING by golly, and we ain’t a couple of downtown dudes in a goll-dern Range Rover. Charlie, going shopping for a beater.

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Somehow you didn’t strike me as one who would fall for the hype in CR. You don’t really believe that crap that they spew do you?

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I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere any of the vehicles already mentioned will go. I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.                                                            -dnc-

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  I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The   Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two   major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I   thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere   any of the vehicles already mentioned will go.

If this vehicle is so great, why are you bothering to defend it on this anonymous forum?  A 2 year old vehicle with "2 major problems" – by what crazy definition is that a good investment or vehicle?  I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.

I didn’t realize that it is required that one has to be a complete ass to buy one of these.   Take this crap over to the 4×4 newsgroups.  It is of no relevance to flyfishing. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

Consumer reports bases it’s ratings on reader responses – ie if you complain to them. Phil Edmonstons "Lemon Aide" guide uses the manufacturers own Maintenance service bulletins that advise dealers exactly what sort of problems are being reported from the field. However this guide is generally negative on the Cherokee. Phil likes to say when confronted by experience like yours Charlie: "goes to prove you can’t always make a bad car!    " Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Tim, I’ve got a Cherokee that’s a few years old and I’ve had zero problems with it.  The big concern with me was the apparent thinness of the brake rotors that had to be replaced if they were turned too much by over-enthusiastic repairmen.  The 1996 models have thicker rotors that withstand the turning a lot better.  All the Jeep owners that I know love them and the only dis-satisfied owners I know, 3, were Grand Cherokee owners. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick

Rick, I sold my V-6 Blazer with 139,000 miles to help pay for my Jeep with 50,000 on it.  I owned the Blazer for 9 years, that was long enough.  In the last two years, new ball joints, radiator, gas tank, etc., etc., but never touched the engine or tranny.  I saw the buyer the other day and he said it’s going great. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one.

  I will entertain $10,000 for my 87  ;-) Harry

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   I too have the loathed Cherokee.  I took a lot of ribbing from my father when I bought it.  He has a pickup.  It ended when I showed him what I paid.  Compared to his full-sized pickup, the Cherokee was practically cheap. I spend a lot of time in the backcountry, can only afford one automobile, and need more passenger space than a pickup. I shopped around, and the Cherokee (not the GRAND Cherokee) is the best value around. Sure, if you never take it off road, you might as well buy a minivan.  Although have you seen the prices on mini-vans – EEK maybe that’s why SUV’s are so popular? My $0.02,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

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. . .  it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders,

People who take their fishing values from pictures are like people who value their food according to how it looks in pictures.  Most fly anglers are thinking people, and what thinking person rates enjoyment (music or mountaineering) by photographs? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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 Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart?

Yup, I have to confess. Back in 87 my wife and kids gave me a K-Mart Browning 8 1/2 ft. 6 weight for my birthday. It was kinda of hard to act surprised in a good way but I believe I pulled it off. Now I love that rob and there’s not a dab of cork on the thing. I’m off to the Cherokee National Forest next week and guess which rod’s going along——it’s already in the, well, Cherokee. Cheers, Randy Giles

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. Oh, and I forgot that it is impossible to catch fish unless you have every new thing on the market. I kno tha there are some who are in it to have a chalenging way of catching fish, but alot of the "fly fishers" are just yuppies. I can tell that most in this newsgroup are not that way, so I want your input. Thanks. BryceC

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble . When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. your input. Thanks. BryceC

I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting to back-county brookie waters.  And yes, after 20+ years of fishing with a Shakespeare I bought at K-Mart, it started coming apart at the ferrule, and I went to Beans’s outlet and bought a marked-down Guide rod.  I did have an earlier thread complaining that I’m hard pressed to see the improvement over the Shakespeare, fine equipment can be had without spending a lot of money.  As for the waders, I skip them in the summer, but if I’m not in a boat or canoe this time of year, the water’s too cold without them. The thing that really sets me apart, though, is I still eat trout on occasion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Greetings fellow fur floggers, I have sent the controls to create this newsgroup.  If I have done it right, this should start appearing on newsservers shortly.  Please post a fishing image to help legitimize the ng.   We decided on .fishing, so that it will allow us to grow it to .fishing.fly, .salt, .naked or whatever.   Pray for the new group…(Or as they say in The Ghosts in the Darkness) Prey for the new group. TimW

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Greetings fellow fur floggers, We decided on .fishing, so that it will allow us to grow it to .fishing.fly, .salt, .naked or whatever.  

Given the sex-site spammers that have overrun all the .bin groups I bet you’re not far off with that.  The group appeared here today, so I’ll be looking for posts. — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

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just a reminder of this groups existence and a call for posts there…it is starting to get some quality images in it. Tks. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Can’t get the group.  My ISP swears I have access to all the groups. Anyone have any ideas? — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297

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just a reminder of this groups existence and a call for posts there…it is starting to get some quality images in it. Tks. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

Have fished it many times–was a deadbeat unemployed fella last year and I actually fished it 90 days. Don’t know where you live but before you go make sure you have the water release schedule halfway figured out so as not to ruin your day. Call ahead to the Ozark Angler in Heber Springs. Tell Jeff Hawthorne to tie you up some Red Diablos–the deadliest LRR fly.

Hi How about sharing the fly pattern receipe for the Red Diablo with us.   Thanks. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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- Hello All. I am looking for some info about the Little Red River Where to stay best spots to fish pretty much anything those you who have been there might be able to fill me in on. Thanks in advance Tight Lines Scott

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Have fished it many times–was a deadbeat unemployed fella last year and I actually fished it 90 days. Don’t know where you live but before you go make sure you have the water release schedule halfway figured out so as not to ruin your day. Call ahead to the Ozark Angler in Heber Springs. Tell Jeff Hawthorne to tie you up some Red Diablos–the deadliest LRR fly.

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Question:

I am looking for anyone that remembers an old lure called the Blue River Spinner . Its origin is believed to be in Southern Indiana and the maker from Shelbyville. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

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Being from southern Indiana and having spent forty years in the tackle industry to boot, I am sorry to say that I only recall the name but not any of the specifics about the lure itself. I will certainly research it for you and if I come up with anything, I will pass it along. Best Regards, I am looking for anyone that remembers an old lure called the Blue River Spinner . Its origin is believed to be in Southern Indiana and the maker from Shelbyville. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

         Trent Roberson            Rx F Fish  For Your Good Health, Fly Fish URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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Question:

I am interested in compiling a listing of availabe software for Fly Fishing related topics.  This would include software for fly tying instructions, fly catalogs or logs, rod building, fly casting techniques, etc.  Generally, any topic related to fly fishing in some way that has been set up as a software program.

I have a fre Fishing Log available only for the cost of your download.  I also am about to release an even bigger and more detailed program entitled "Master Angler" which is much more than a log. You can view it on the WWW at the URL on my signature.                  Bob Sheedy                 Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM

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I am interested in compiling a listing of availabe software for Fly Fishing related topics.  This would include software for fly tying instructions, fly catalogs or logs, rod building, fly casting techniques, etc.  Generally, any topic related to fly fishing in some way that has been set up as a software program. You can post here or refer the sourcing information to Thank you very much for your assistance.          Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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I am interested in compiling a listing of availabe software for Fly Fishing related topics.  

I have a free flyfishing database program at www.demon.co.uk/M_Unwin_Books, see the ‘other’ section if you want to download it. Regards Chris Cox

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Question:

That’s true. Starting with the RPL+ rods, at least that’s what my flyshop guys said. Gerhard

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"Sage rods, reels and blanks carry an unconditional, original-owner guarantee. Regardless of cause, Sage will promptly repair or replace any rod, reel or blank that is defective or damaged free of charge. In addition, we promise to give you the best service and repair in the industry and we will return ship your rod, reel or blank within 7 working days" That is right off of the back cover of the 1996 Sage catalog. The same warranty also applies to Lamson reels. Clay

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Summary: Sage Unconditional Lifetime Warrenty?  A tackle shop guy told me that next year Sage rods will have an unconditional lifetime warrenty. So if your dog chews up the Sage years from now Sage will fix or replace it free with no questions asked. Can anyone confirm or deny this statement? -regards Wayne V Ohh.. the tackle guy also stated the price will be increasing 7%.

Wayne, your source was correct.  The rods will have an unconditional warranty.  Prices are going up and they have a new series of rods the Rpl +.  They look really good.  We have found that they cast better with more control than the Rpl’s.  The Rpl 4 pieces have been dropped so if you want one better grab it now. Ken

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That’s true. Starting with the RPL+ rods, at least that’s what my flyshop guys said. Gerhard

I’ve also heard the warranty applies to blanks as well. Very good news. Bob Petti Endwell, NY

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(SNIP) That is right off of the back cover of the 1996 Sage catalog. The same warranty also applies to Lamson reels.

Which are now owned by Sage, right? Bob Petti Endwell, NY

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   The "lifetime replacement guarantee" on the label doesn’t tell the whole story. Most manufacturer’s will replace a broken rod for relatively little money.    We break many rods in our flyfishing classes. For fun we sent back a broken rod each to SAGE, LOOMIS, FENWICK, WINSTON and SCOTT. We used a friends letterhead and return address so the companies wouldn’t have incentive to treat us any better than their regular rod repair/replacement.    SAGE: We sent the rod in on Monday and had a new one on Thursday (Blue Label UPS). We have broken several Sage rods, and all of them have been replaced within a week. Incredible service like this should be rewarded.    LOOMIS: They sent us reciept of our broken rod and had us verify shipping address. Total turn around was 8 working days and cost was $30.00 for a new tip.    FENWICK: They sent us a new rod in three weeks but it was the wrong rod. We called them and they arranged for us to pick up a new one off a local dealer’s shelf.    WINSTON: This was the only rod sent with a defect (The internal ferrule fell out). They took 6 weeks to repair the rod then charged us $30.00. We made a complaint on plain stationary and they stood by their charge. We made a second complaint on our flyfishing school letterhead and they not only reversed the charge but sent us a couple of hats.    SCOTT: It took 5 months and two phone calls to get the rod back. I hate to say this because I love Scott rods and am good friends with many of their staff. Tight lines, Ralph Cutter —

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  A tackle shop guy told me that next year Sage rods will have an  unconditional lifetime warrenty. So if your dog chews up the Sage  years from now Sage will fix or replace it free with no questions  asked.  Can anyone confirm or deny this statement?  -regards  Wayne V  Ohh.. the tackle guy also stated the price will be increasing 7%.

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