Question:

Fished my favorite local stream today.  Testing out the back after the new treatment.  WOO WOO!  Fished for five hours and my only complaint was cold feet (as in, "who switched my feet for these bricks"). Got to the Patapsco, below Daniels Dam (Old Fredrick Rd turnout) at about 8 a.m.  Water was 48 degrees, air about 50, foggy with a light breeze. I walked up to my favorite pool and started casting a size 14 wooly bugger. After two 10 inch stocker rainbows in the riffle, I started up a conversation with an older gentleman on the walking path.  Turns out that he is a "retired" fly fisherman who can no longer wade due to two artificial hips and some heart problems.  The sun had come out and he pointed out some fish rising in the next pool down.  He then "guided" me into position by spotting my traverse across the stream.  I stayed wonderfully dry because of him. With his advice, I got into perfect position behind a rock.  I was high enough out of the water to make a decent cast, but shielded from the fishes view by the rock.  There were about twenty fish rising in a 20 foot circle. I looked on the water and saw some tiny size 30 black gnats floating by. Well, didn’t have anything that small, so settled on a 22 Griffiths Gnat. No dice.  They splashed all around it.  I retied on the black wooly bugger, but again, no joy.  I then remembered a fly in my box that I learned about whilst inspecting the Pirate’s Dry Fly Larder (the man will never again have to tie a dry).  It was a size 16 parachute Hare’s Ear.  Chaching!  These guys couldn’t get enough of it.  About every third to fifth cast I was into another fish.  One fish was still bleeding slightly in the other side of the mouth from where I had hooked him before. Man, I love stupid fish.  Even got a very confused smallie (still had his winter coat on). When the action slowed down, I looked up and the gentleman was still there, sitting on a log.  I offered him my rod, but he refused.  He didn’t buy a license and was "adding a bit of English to my casts."  We chatted for a bit more and then the fish started rising again.  When action eased, I looked up and he was gone.  I want to thank him and all other "stream side angels." He was indeed fishing without a license, but my license worked for him, because I became his arms and legs for just a bit.  My cast straightened out, my fly selection was spot on and the fish were fearless.  I firmly believe that more than words pass between master and apprentice and today, while fishing that little circle of fish, that connection with this nameless gentleman, with the Pirate, with old Floyd Turnbull who took me fishing as a kid, and many, many others, was made. I sat on that pool all morning.  Others came by and said those were the only rising fish in two miles of river.  I sat on a rock and had my sandwich with my line in the water (still my pool, dammit!).  While sitting there, a huge (for the Patapsco) trout, about 18-20 inches, flashed about ten feet out from the rock.  I sat there for a 45 minutes casting everything in my flybox, hare’s ears, pheasant tails, wooly buggers, usuals, biots, nothing worked, even though he continued to flash and dart around.  That ethereal link was still there, but there are some fish that you aren’t meant to catch. A front came through at about one o’clock, clouds, sprinkles and wind.  Shut the fish down.  I didn’t mind.  I’d had a good morning, the fishing lust was sated, and I had reached a new level in my relationship with the water, and, my past. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

……a "retired" fly fisherman who can no longer wade due to two artificial hips and some heart problems.  The sun had come out and he pointed out some fish rising in the next pool down.  He then "guided" me into position by spotting my traverse across the stream…….

What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s

Response:

Fished my favorite local stream today.  Testing out the back after the new treatment.

        (snip)         i am once again reminded of the best argument for the existence of this group–gifts such as that i snipped, above. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

Frank Reid wrote…

<snipped a wonderful TR A front came through at about one o’clock, clouds, sprinkles and wind.  Shut the fish down.  I didn’t mind.  I’d had a good morning, the fishing lust was sated, and I had reached a new level in my relationship with the water, and, my past.

Thanks for sharing that Frank.  Gems like that are what keep me coming back here. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

but there are some fish that you aren’t meant to catch.

Boy, that’s an evocative line…thanks for the TR, Frank. – Sid

Response:

What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s

To BE that old fly fisher and married to Anna Nicole Smith for her money?         Frank

Response:

What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s To BE that old fly fisher and married to Anna Nicole Smith for her money?         Frank

See, that’s what we love about this place…….no question asked in good faith will go unanswered!     Wolfgang

Response:

What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s To BE that old fly fisher and married to Anna Nicole Smith for her money?         Frank

Something tells me she’d insist on a strong pre-nup…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What greater ambition for a fly fisher than to BE that old man? Wolfgang see you at penn’s To BE that old fly fisher and married to Anna Nicole Smith for her money?         Frank Something tells me she’d insist on a strong pre-nup…

Anything she wants!! Scott

Response:

Fished my favorite local stream today.  

Great story, Frank. That was a special day that I’ll think will stay with you. Willi

Response:

Question:

I really don’t want to jump into this fray, you state in your thread that there are 1/2 a million registered and even more unregistered ORV’s. First, shame on those who don’t register their ORV’s.  I have to subsidize this activity with higher local taxes for lost revenues on their illegal activity.

Hi David,  First, there is absolutely no requirement to register OHVs as far as I know. The only registrations are from new vehicle purchases, where the vehicle is registered to allow warranty recording and for insurance purposes. Some states require registration fees to operate in some riding areas – but that’s all. If I buy a used dirt motorcycle or ATV, which is not street-legal, there is NO requirement to register it, nor is there a place TO register it. So accusing someone of not doing what you are uninformed about is a moot point. Second, 40 million people hike each year, and 24 million camp according to current available data, making hiking the number one outdoor activity and camping number five — these stats add up A LOT more than 1/2 a million and even more than 5 million if I assume that 90% of active ORV’s are unregistered.

First, there are nearly the same number of motorcycles and ATVs in this country as the number of hikers you note. The 1/2 million ORV number is units purchased every year. Second, the camping number would include ORVers, so could not be used as an argument against ORVs as you attempt. Third, when I go riding, I see almost NO hikers, ever. It isn’t that hikers are hiding from me as I go by as Jeff would have you believe, it’s simply that there are not as many people actually hiking as claimed. If many more ORV’s are going unregistered…what does that say about the caliber of character of the owners?  Does this mean I don’t have to register my car anymore?  My boat?

ORVs are not street legal, your car is. ORVs do not operate on the water, therefore no boating registration required. Are you really so uninformed that you don’t know that an ATV does not need a license plate? BTW — I’m not a total moron,

I didn’t say you were, just hard to believe you’d accuse ORVers of "not paying for registrations" when none is required. II am sure some states do not require any registration of ORV’s and I am not for the complete removal of them.

Thanks buddy! Ron

Response:

… Second, 40 million people hike each year, and 24 million camp according to current available data, making hiking the number one outdoor activity and camping number five — these stats add up A LOT more than 1/2 a million and even more than 5 million if I assume that 90% of active ORV’s are unregistered. First, there are nearly the same number of motorcycles and ATVs in this country as the number of hikers you note. The 1/2 million ORV number is units purchased every year.

… You are such a lying sack of shit, Ron! (Oops! Now Ron von Braun, the self-described rocket scientist, is going to call me Jeff Vandeman again, because, when people disagree with me, I call them "liars.") You say above that there are 40 million "(off-road) motorcycles and ATVs in this country," meaning the USA, and you say above that 1/2 million are purchased every year. Right? Right. Read it yourself. So, even if there was no ramp-up to current sales levels, it would have taken 80 years to reach that number of units in the country (40 million / 1/2 million per year = 80 years). That, of course, assumes that every single unit sold since 1920 is still tearing up the trail. Jeez-Louise, Ron! You are the worst liar I have ever seen. The WORST!! You don’t even agree with yourself. Maybe YOU are Ron Vandeman. Dontchano, you could end all of this humiliation and damage to the cause of getting you boys some good sacrafice land, by closing that Wiseguys’ Book of Truths (WBT), and starting to speak English, and with some integrity. However, if you really must tough it out, remember that it isn’t enough to follow:    - "Don’t be modest with your lies," WBT 5:3 at html://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-3    - "Assert numbers," WBT 5:10 at html://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-10. You must also observe:    - "Avoid facts and logic," WBT 5:14 at html://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-14. And, if you check out the ever popular "Never admit to your lie," WBT 5:5 at html://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-5, I guess you won’t be replying to this 80-year lie, will you, Ron? Yuk yuk yuk. 80 years, indeed. You boys are sooooooooo lame. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

Jeff the truth-twister again: You are such a lying sack of shit, Ron! and Jeez-Louise, Ron! You are the worst liar I have ever seen. The WORST!!

I cannot type here what I think of you, Jeff, however I can tell you that the absolute biggest untruths are on your page (the "WBT" page), and those of you trying to invent conflicts between trail users. You say above that there are 40 million "(off-road) motorcycles and ATVs in this country," meaning the USA, and you say above that 1/2 million are purchased every year. Right? Right. Read it yourself. So, even if there was no ramp-up to current sales levels, it would have taken 80 years to reach that number of units in the country (40 million / 1/2 million per year = 80 years). That, of course, assumes that every single unit sold since 1920 is still tearing up the trail.

I see. So this, even tho: A person can buy used and it will not be recorded A person can buy more than one OHV per year A person can buy a 4X4 pickup, but you forgot to add those A person can buy a 4X4 SUV, but you forgot to add those For instance, one person – me, owns 17 OHVs, all by myself! I have numerous friends who own as many OHVs as myself, which is kinda the norm (owning more than one OHV per person or household). You just hate the fact that there may be AN AWFUL LOT OF US OHVers, don’t you!?! And more coming every year! But, to prove myself, I’ll dig up some statistics and post ‘em, as I want to find out more precise numbers myself. Your worst enemy, Ron

Response:

… I cannot type here what I think of you, Jeff,

I couldn’t care less what you think of me, Ron. This isn’t about anyone’s hysteria. It’s about facts and logic, and about influencing the backcountry recreation policy of the US Park Service, Forest Service, and Bureau of Land Management. But, if it means that much to you to express yourself, just spit it out. What’s one more count? You have already assaulted me twice, probably three times — they’re in deja.com and the other archiving services for any public prosecutor to read. You probably can plea bargain four counts down to concurrent sentences, anyway. however I can tell you that the absolute biggest untruths are on your page (the "WBT" page)

… Instead of passing the usual gas, why don’t you:      [1] quote just a dozen verses from the Wiseguys’ Book of Truths (http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html) with which you disagree,      [2] disavow each of them separately, saying unequivocally that only a real dirtball would employ such democracy-defeating sleaze, and      [3] challenge me to post even one rec.backcountry quote in which you employed the Wiseguy wisdom in each verse which you have disavowed. If what you have said above is true, that should be easy enough. So post it or zip it, Ron. Post it or zip it. Your worst enemy, Ron

I’m not intimidated at all by your would-be bullying,      Ron Brabander, last known address      400 Lakeshore Dr      North Sioux City, SD 57049      Phone: 605-232-8961      (name and address to be confirmed by subpoena to America Online)      (address to be confirmed by subpoena to South Dakota unemployment department) last known employer      Gateway Computers      (photo in personnel file, available by subpoena) You’ve got me confused with someone else, Ron — someone who gives a rat’s ass about your silly opinion of me and someone who can’t return suppressing fire across his front porch until the uniformed police arrive. BTW, Ron Brabander, are you ready to have that gratuitous "Your worst enemy" closing read to your jury? Think about it … then get a grip. Don’t fantasize a personal feud from a backcountry recreation policy discussion. You can’t win the feud either. —— Examples of Ron Brabander’s threats of battery follow —— … Jeff, you are a real loser. Let me know if you want to meet and have me tell you that in person. Ron

Dennis Harris intolerantly says: … and YOU need to get over it, get off the machines, and get some exercise to work off your lard butts.   Lets meet so you can say this to my face. I’ll change your mind about ORV users being lard butts in a big hurry. … Ron

—- End threats —- — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

"…I see, so you feel well over half a million registered (and many more unregistered) ORV…" I really don’t want to jump into this fray, you state in your thread that there are 1/2 a million registered and even more unregistered ORV’s. First, shame on those who don’t register their ORV’s.  I have to subsidize this activity with higher local taxes for lost revenues on their illegal activity. Second, 40 million people hike each year, and 24 million camp according to current available data, making hiking the number one outdoor activity and camping number five — these stats add up A LOT more than 1/2 a million and even more than 5 million if I assume that 90% of active ORV’s are unregistered. If many more ORV’s are going unregistered…what does that say about the caliber of character of the owners?  Does this mean I don’t have to register my car anymore?  My boat?  Paying for those registrations may have made the government backdown on these issues.  Hurt the government in their wallets, they will go for the jugular – no way to enforce registration, ban operation outright on government/public lands.  Seems as through the community is causing it’s own problems. BTW — I’m not a total moron, I am sure some states do not require any registration of ORV’s and I am not for the complete removal of them.  They serve their purpose – and presently there are more miles of ORV trails then roads in the United States…

Response:

Jeff Mick gets mad with: This isn’t about anyone’s hysteria. It’s about facts and logic, and about influencing the backcountry recreation policy of the US Park Service, Forest Service, and Bureau of Land Management.

Yes it is, Jeff. But in your attempts to influence the public through this forum, you have shown nothing but untruths twisted to fit your agenda, which I have taken issue with. What facts? What logic? All you have done is proven you can sink lower than I. Don’t fantasize a personal feud from a backcountry recreation policy discussion. You can’t win the feud either.

Then why haven’t you trotted out for discussion even one "fact" that shows ORV use really is harmful? Because I would win? Then Jeff threatens me with: assaulted public prosecutor subpoena police jury

So, Marshall Dillpickle, will I be hung by the neck until dead, dead, dead? Ron

Response:

Following up my own post. Then Jeff threatens me with: assaulted public prosecutor subpoena police jury

After worrying about this overnight, I’ve decided that this is scary. Posting my info on the internet is too. Bailing out of this newsgroup like a big chicken, Ron

Response:

I’ve decided that this is scary. Posting my info on the internet is too. Bailing out of this newsgroup like a big chicken,

Yea, but trip reports, gear opinions and other moderate brief discussions on BC topics shouldn’t be a concern for any of us.  I’m adding ORV to my filter list for r.b.  Some of us will never agree, and that’s fine, life goes on as we pursue our own favorite activities and support our own special interest groups. — Breathe in deep powder, exhale bad turns. -Victor’s Stony Yoga kknisely at parkcity dot com

Response:

Following up my own post. Then Jeff threatens me with: assaulted public prosecutor subpoena police jury After worrying about this overnight, I’ve decided that this is scary. Posting my info on the internet is too. Bailing out of this newsgroup like a big chicken, Ron

The criminal justice process SHOULD be threatening and scary to someone like Ron. He is both easy to find and a slam dunk conviction for any brand new assistant district attorney. Considering the repeated threats of physical beatings which he has made to me and others on rec.backcountry in the last several days, being scared is an unexpected flash of good judgement by Ron. If anyone cares to see the post which Ron’s self-serving editing boiled down to the quote above, check deja com at    - In the subject  box, paste the subject of this thread, <Re: Action alert -ORVs are the best!,    - in the Forum box, paste the name of this newsgroup, <rec.backcountry    - click the Search bar    - click on Thread (near the upper left corner)    - open the message from me dated 02/01/00 (Msg 6), and there you have it. Ron’s total lack of integrity when quoting and replying to newsgroup messages is the one of his many character defects which I will miss least. On the matter of (me, Jeff) "Posting (Ron’s) info on the internet is (scary) too.", let’s be clear about the facts:    [1] I’ve been patient with Ron, because he was the ideal vehicle (no pun intended) for exposing Wiseguy-speak vocabulary and tactics. I couldn’t have fashioned a better sock puppet if sockpuppetry were my style.    [2] Ron introduced the meat space dimension to a previously cyber space discussion, when he repeatedly threatened beatings and shared his fantasy about me being hit by a truck and badly injured (see deja.com thread above, Msg 1, last line).    [3] Having introduced the meat space dimension, Ron apparently balked at including his meat space identity, which he knows is needed by law enforcement to apprehend him.    [4] Ron, not I (Jeff), posted his apprehension info to the Internet. For example, he posted his last name several times (search dated 6/15/99). For another example, look up "Ron Brabander" in Infospace.com at http://www.infospace.com/. (There are a lot of better ways to find meat space info on the Web, but these are a couple of the baby-talk ways.) There is a lot of cross-confirming info which points (almost) conclusively to Ron Brabander as previously identified. IMPORTANT: Of course, there still is a tiny, tiny chance that post, so confirmation is absolutely required before any meat space action, to protect an innocent person. In summary, Ron has shown himself to be a man of zero integrity, a failed bully, a world-class blowhard, and finally a whiner. Until Mel disappears, so we need another gimme to illustrate Wiseguy-speak, I won’t miss Ron at all. YMMV. But, I really doubt that Ron is gone from rec.backcountry. I, for one, expect to see a new poster from AOL within a couple of hours using an AOL screen name including words like share, American, freedom, or similar Wiseguy-speak. A skunk can’t change his stripe. Still, I hope he retreats from rec.backcountry to some Wiseguy newsgroup, thereby simultaneously raising the average intelligence and level of discourse in both newsgroups. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

I say again, Give this cutesie salutation crap a rest, Ron.

Sure Jeff Vandeman, I’ll get right on that. Heh heh. Well, Dr. von Braun, it looks like you have been under a rocket once too many

times without your hard hat. Gosh, that’s pretty funny Jeff. For you, anyway. That is evidenced by the fact that you are ignoring the Wiseguy’s Book of

Truths’ advice to avoid discussion of facts (because you will certainly lose) at http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-8. There are no facts on that site. I checked. The 95% number, which you deny above, is about half way down the Forest Service page at http://www.srs.fs.fed.us/strategicplan/view_and_submit_comment.asp?ID=18. I quote, "Almost 95 percent of the U.S. population that is 16 years old and

older participate in some form of outdoor recreation. The most popular outdoor recreation activities (measured in number of days) are walking, nonconsumptive wildlife activities, biking, sightseeing, nonpool swimming, fishing, family gathering, and picnicking." All of the activities stated by the Forest Service are what you Wiseguys would call "hiking" Swimming is hiking? No. Fishing is hiking? No. You are a nut case? YOU BETCHA! You will note two things in the Forest Service information above: [1] all of

the "most popular outdoor recreation activities" are naturally-quiet, naturally-paced activities (except perhaps some part of the undefined "biking"), and [2] no off-road RVing is included there, though it is explicitly tracked by the Forest Service. Could off-road RVing be a fringe activity for a few sociopathic misfits in search of disapproval from parental figures? Naaaah. I see, so you feel well over half a million registered (and many more unregistered) ORV owners are "sociopathic misfits", because they just won’t do what you want them to do. It’s great that you prove to all that you are truly a wacko, exactly like your brother Mike Vandeman. I don’t expect you to reply to this, Ron, much less with an apology and a

"Thank you for the education." BWAA HA HA HA! Speaking of funny stuff, I heard where Jeff used to be a girl, until she had the operation. You know, an "Addadicktome". But I do expect you to sooner or later realize that Wisguy-speak doesn’t fly

here or at the Forest Service. I see, you speak for the entire US Forest Service, now. Um, do they know that? Have a nice day, rocket scientist.

Watch out for that truck Jeff! Ooh, too late. What a mess. Ron

Response:

Question:

Luis, I didn’t want to give the impression that my second son, Jared, is incapable of mastering different skills.  I think he can.  However, they will not be the same skills as my first son, Jacob. (snip) There are many kinds of intelligence, and strengths… we all have and lack some.  They come into play in the form of different paths for each flyfisher.

You are correct.  In 1995 Howard Gardner, an educator, had a book published that described intelligence as stands of spaghetti or string.  "Multiple intelligences" as he put it, could be categorized into seven areas or strings: logical-mathematical, linguistic, musical, spatial, bodily-kinesthetic, interpersonal, and intrapersonal.  Each individual intelligence stand or string is constantly touching and interacting with all the another stands.  It is hard to separate one from the other.  All children have all of these intelligences, however not in the same quantity. Every child has ONE area that they are strongest in.  That child would then be classified as that type of a LEARNER. The problem with the traditional I.Q. test, which the schools still use today, is that it measures intelligence as a glass of liquid.  The test determines how much liquid is in the glass.  That is all.  It makes no classification of strong areas and weak areas. The old I.Q. test is still used because, though educators can test a child to see which of the multiple intelligences they are strongest in, they can not determine how much of that intelligence they have.  Additionally, no child is equal to another in all areas or in the way that their intelligences interact with each other.  It’s kind of like a fingerprint. Every child is unique in the way they learn and think. Let me take a second to described the SEVEN intelligences: LOGICAL-MATHEMATICAL:          They have a sensitivity to and capacity to discern, logical or numerical patterns; ability to handle long chains of reasoning. LINGUISTIC:          They have a sensitivity to the sounds, rhythms, and meanings of words; sensitivity to the different functions of language. MUSICAL:          They have the abilities to produce and appreciate rhythm, pitch, and timbre; appreciation of the forms of musical expressiveness. SPATIAL:        They have the capacities to perceive the visual-spatial world accurately and to perform transformations on one’s initial perceptions. BODILY-KINESTHETIC:          They have the abilities to control one’s body movements and to handle objects skillfully. INTERPERSONAL:          They have the capacities to discern and respond appropriately to the moods, temperaments, motivations, and desires of other people. INTRAPERSONAL:          Access to one’s own feelings and the ability to discriminate among them and draw on them to guide behavior; knowledge of one’s own strengths, weaknesses, desires, and intelligences. Luis, the gentleman that you speak of, though it might not be his highest area, is high in interpersonal intelligence.  This is why he does well in restaurant relations.  He might also be high in bodily-kinesthetic and spatial intelligences.  Regarding his low ability of reading, could indicate that he is low in linguistic.  He probably is.  However, I would gather to say that the greater reason is due to educators giving up on him due to his struggle with the written word.  And maybe he gave up on himself.  I personally believe EVERYONE can read and write well if adequate attention and dedication is given to learning it. My oldest son, Jacob, is a linguistic learner, thus does well in a traditional school setting. My second son, Jared, is a spatial learner, however he’s also almost bind. What an irony.  This gives him a handicap in his learning due to the way his brain works vs. the lack of eye sight.  He learns best when he can see something, however, with his pop-bottle glasses, he only get a circle of clear vision directly in front of him.  A normal range of vision is about 45 degrees.  Jared’s range of clear vision is about 15-20 degrees with no peripheral vision to speak of.  You can see how this limits him in his learning as a spatial learner. Jared, however, is highly coordinated and has good control of his body movements. Jacob is not.  Jacob is a physical klutz. My original question was to narrow down what type of intelligence is most useful in fly fishing.  I would gather to say that a musical, interpersonal, or intrapersonal learners would not use their strongest areas in fly fishing.  However, a spatial, linguistic, logical-mathematical, or bodily-kinesthetic learners could possibly use their strongest areas in fly fishing.  But, which one is most important in constantly catching the most and largest fish?  Can a linguistic learner sit and read all book available to become an excellent fly fisherman?  Can a logical-mathematical learner evaluate the odds in different situations to become an excellent fly fisherman?  Can a bodily-kinesthetic learner practice casting until it’s perfect and become an excellent fly fisherman?  Or, can a spatial learner look at his environment and become an excellent fly fisherman?  All these areas might be important like string touching each other.  However, which one area is most important?  That’s what I was originally getting at without a long drown out explanation, which I just did.  Not to say that anyone is stupid.  I don’t think anyone really is. Vern

Response:

Vern, I’ll echo what you have heard from the other posters. There are indeed mental and physical components to fly fishing, and there can be many approaches to the sport. A real strength in one component can compensate for a weakness in the other. Your boys may develop very different methods and tactics, but with your guidance and obvious enthusiasm both should fare quite well. You guys are lucky to have each other. George Adams

Response:

I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party.  It caused me to think about what it takes to be a good fly fisherman.  Is it the ability to read the water, understand what the fish might be thinking, know the difference between the different species, know where and how to place the fly, know what’s hatching, etc.  Or, is it the ability to make a nice cast that drops the fly softly on the water, etc.  Both are important, but what is more important the intellectual or the physical?

  I wrote the post about the 20-ft. caster, and in his case, it is an intuitive genius, a sixth sense, if you will, regarding the ways of living things, be they trout or elk. When fishing, he is totally focused, although he might casually point out a mother duck and her brood hiding in an eddy, deep in the shadows of an overhang, that you and the next 30 guys would have never seen. This man has great trouble reading, in fact is near-illiterate, but he is an expert at observing and gleaning information from people. He can also charm anyone at will, it seems, at any time. He once had every waitress in a Colorado restaurant at our table, telling us their life and love stories not 20 minutes after arriving, and he flirted with every one of them, and not one gave any sign of being left out.  I think this magic translates or transmutates into fly fishing. There are many kinds of intelligence, and strengths… we all have and lack some. They come into play in the form of different paths for each flyfisher. I recommend reading about the different paths in Yoga, in a book by Mircea Eliade. The part on the many paths relates to this topic.                                          — Luis

Response:

Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability? My two oldest boys are as different as night and day.  Jacob (my oldest boy at age 9) is an intellectual genius with a photographic memory.  His I.Q. is 142, although he’s a social and physical klutz.  Jared (my second son at age 7) is a highly physically coordinated and socially talented young man. However, his I.Q. is only 80 which makes him mentally challenged.  Their grades at school are indicators of these differences. I take both boys fishing.  Their attack at the sport are completely different which I believe is an indication of their age difference, as well. Jacob is 9 years old and Jared is 7 years old, so there is two years difference.  At their ages, two years is a huge difference.  I’m currently trying to teach Jacob how to fly fish.  He seams to have a problem with casting. I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party.  It caused me to think about what it takes to be a good fly fisherman.  Is it the ability to read the water, understand what the fish might be thinking, know the difference between the different species, know where and how to place the fly, know what’s hatching, etc.  Or, is it the ability to make a nice cast that drops the fly softly on the water, etc.  Both are important, but what is more important the intellectual or the physical? Your opinions are appreciated and could make an interesting discussion.  In addition, your comments can only help me in helping my boys enjoy the sport. In advance, thanks for your comments. Vern

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I have two boys, aged 30 and 27, who have been fly fishing since little tots. I never tried to direct their interest or overly instruct, I felt that if they stuck with it they would develop their own skills and interests. The youngest can lay out a dry 60 ft as pretty as you ever want to see, the oldest maybe 40, but he can out roll cast the younger by 15 ft. One prefers dries and wets and one prefers sight fishing and nymphs. I guess what I am saying is, give them the opportunity to experience the different facets, don’t force any one on them or over instruct and most of all let em have fun… Both of my boys are married now with two children each and long for the times when they were young with no cares but for the next strike. jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability? My two oldest boys are as different as night and day.  Jacob (my oldest boy at age 9) is an intellectual genius with a photographic memory.  His I.Q. is 142, although he’s a social and physical klutz.  Jared (my second son at age 7) is a highly physically coordinated and socially talented young man. However, his I.Q. is only 80 which makes him mentally challenged.  Their grades at school are indicators of these differences. I take both boys fishing.  Their attack at the sport are completely different which I believe is an indication of their age difference, as well. Jacob is 9 years old and Jared is 7 years old, so there is two years difference.  At their ages, two years is a huge difference.  I’m currently trying to teach Jacob how to fly fish.  He seams to have a problem with casting. I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party.  It caused me to think about what it takes to be a good fly fisherman.  Is it the ability to read the water, understand what the fish might be thinking, know the difference between the different species, know where and how to place the fly, know what’s hatching, etc.  Or, is it the ability to make a nice cast that drops the fly softly on the water, etc.  Both are important, but what is more important the intellectual or the physical? Your opinions are appreciated and could make an interesting discussion.  In addition, your comments can only help me in helping my boys enjoy the sport. In advance, thanks for your comments. Vern

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[snip] I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party.

[and again] Vern, don’t believe everything Louie LaPlac posts. First of all, I *know* on a good day with a trailing breeze that he can actually cast close to 30 feet! /daytripper ;^)

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Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability?

It is basically what you make of it. You can fly-fish with hardly  any knowledge at all, or you can devote incredible amounts of time attaining knowledge and skills to supplement it.  The main thing is to enjoy it, no matter how you go about it. TL MC

Response:

Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability?

One of the best flyfishermen I’ve ever fished with doesn’t cast beyond 40 feet. Not that he doesn’t have the physical skill. He moves on the stream like an otter and always seems to position himself where he doesn’t need to make a long cast. On the other hand, the ability to see the fly and react to the strike sure seems to have faded in direct proportion to the increase in grey hair and waist size. Like most things, it depends. Teach your children both, to their individual abilities and have a good time doing it. You’re a lucky guy. — Ken Fortenberry

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Hi Vern, All of the tenets of fly fishing are as important as one makes them.  Some believe that the quantity or quality of fish caught is the measure of a fly fisherman.  Others treat the sport differently.  I have met guys who are full fledged streamside entomologists.  Others are stream side ichthyologists as they know every aspect of a particular fish’s behavior.  I know others who prefer to tie flies than to fish.  Personally, I love to cast, learn about the bugs, the fish and I am now tying my flies.  It seems that I am evolving as I learn more of the sport.  I can’t tell you what part of fly fishing will be important to me next year, but I guarantee I will be fly fishing. Expose Jacob and Jared to the fly fishing world, and let them gravitate toward their individual preferences.  It is much like music.  Many folks play the piano, but some gravitate to classical music while others gravitate to rock music. Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability? My two oldest boys are as different as night and day.  Jacob (my oldest boy at age 9) is an intellectual genius with a photographic memory.  His I.Q. is 142, although he’s a social and physical klutz.  Jared (my second son at age 7) is a highly physically coordinated and socially talented young man. However, his I.Q. is only 80 which makes him mentally challenged.  Their grades at school are indicators of these differences. I take both boys fishing.  Their attack at the sport are completely different which I believe is an indication of their age difference, as well. Jacob is 9 years old and Jared is 7 years old, so there is two years difference.  At their ages, two years is a huge difference.  I’m currently trying to teach Jacob how to fly fish.  He seams to have a problem with casting. I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party.  It caused me to think about what it takes to be a good fly fisherman.  Is it the ability to read the water, understand what the fish might be thinking, know the difference between the different species, know where and how to place the fly, know what’s hatching, etc.  Or, is it the ability to make a nice cast that drops the fly softly on the water, etc.  Both are important, but what is more important the intellectual or the physical? Your opinions are appreciated and could make an interesting discussion. In addition, your comments can only help me in helping my boys enjoy the sport. In advance, thanks for your comments. Vern

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Question:

Where is Talyllyn Lake

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dwyfor.ac.uk writes Has anyone had any experience of fly fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Famous for it Olive hatches. — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk

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Has anyone had any experience of fly fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Response:

X-Deja-AN: 554202379 X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Organization: Customer of Planet Online X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’ve not had the pleasure yet but hope to one day soon but I am told that it is a little difficult to book a boat, apart from that it is a wonderful lake and the fishing is excellent.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone had any experience of fly fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

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Does anyone have any experience of fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

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dwyfor.ac.uk writes Does anyone have any experience of fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Not actually fished it, but know a man who has:-) I’ve been told the fishing is not that good these days, but what fish there are, will happily take an olive nymph or lake olive. I’d go for local B&B if you’re intent on staying in  the area for a day or two – Ty’n y Cornel is a bit pricey but good. The food is very good! — Bill

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Question:

        I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems. Can anyone help? Nick Lewis

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I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems.

Go north,  go north. IMO Michigan has some of the best assortment of wadable trout  waters in North America. maybe not the biggest and the most famous but…. The list is endless starting with the AuSable and Manisttee Rivers near Grayling (and the birthplace of Trout Unlimited about 3 hours from the Metro airport), the Pierre Marquette, the Jordan the Betsy, the Platte, the Pidgeon, etc. And that does not even touch the upper Pennisula. Lots of these rivers have salmon and steelhead runs in the winter and spring. Several active clubs (the Greater Flint Muddler Minnows come to mind) and a great fly show near Detroit  in the Winter. Can’t speak for Detroit, since I just fly in, get  in the rental car and head north on I-75. There’s also some great fishing accross the border in Canada close to Windsor. Bob Linseman has written a pretty good book on Michigan Trout streams. While not in Detroit, The Fly Factory in Grayling and Great Lakes Fly Fishing in Grand Rapids are two top notch fly shops with top notch owners very williing to help new people find their way around to the Michigan Fishing. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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I used to live close to Detroit.  Don’t bother looking for trout streams near the city.  As another post suggested, GO NORTH.  It is well worth the trip.  You only have to drive 2-3 hours in order to get to a good stream.  I used to fish the Pere Marquette in Baldwin regularly and it would take me 3 hours to get there.  From Detroit, it may take 4 hours.  There is a nice, long stretch of water on the PM that is designated "flies only", so you won’t find too many bait fisherman or snaggers there.  Stop into Ed’s Sport Shop on the main drag, Michigan Ave, and they will get give you the scoop on what the fish are biting on. Maurice Paquette

I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems. Can anyone help? Nick Lewis

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I used to live in Detroit (Birmingham) years ago and I’m sorry to say there is not much fishing around the city. But if you go North up to the UP (or not even that far) there is some fabulous fishing. Echo all the rivers that Mr. Knight recommended. I used to fish for smallmouths about an hour an outside of Detroit. Tons of lakes in the area. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems. Can anyone help? Nick Lewis

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There aren’t really any good trout streams in the Detroit area. The DNR stocks Paint Creek in Macomb Co. and the Huron River every spring (the Huron River fish do not stick around due to water temp.)  I’ve heard that the fishing in both is marginal.  A few hours away you’ve got some great options.  Check out "Michigan Trout Streams"  by Linsenman. Feel free to e-mail me if you’d like fly shop suggestions for your new area. Jason Schwartz         I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems. Can anyone help? Nick Lewis

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Question:

I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

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Oddly enough, if you dip the rod tip back into the water, the ice will generally disappear.  I’ve found that by doing so, and fishing a short line, i.e. leaving the fishing length always outside the tip top, sort of nymphing style, I get along fairly well. jg

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I just carefully dip my rod into the river every so often.  The ice doesn’t seem to affect it much until they get super clogged.  Doesn’t seem to scare the fish, I did OK at the Thompson last weekend. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

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Spraying the rod guides (not the river guides) with a little pam seems to help to keep ice from clinging.   By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold. g – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just carefully dip my rod into the river every so often.  The ice doesn’t seem to affect it much until they get super clogged.  Doesn’t seem to scare the fish, I did OK at the Thompson last weekend. Chris I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

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well sometimes the neoprene slows down circulation around your foot.. but why dont you try some capilene sock liners… those help wick moisture away from your feet…. (wet feet dont help keep you warm) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spraying the rod guides (not the river guides) with a little pam seems to help to keep ice from clinging.   By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold. g

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Where I fish the water is really cold for 3-4 months a year… For real cold conditions, I use 5 mm boot waders, 3 sizes larger than needed, which leaves plenty of space for thermal socks (2 if needed) without compressing the feet. That’s the trick. My feet never get cold even if the water is close to freezing point. – Tord Sweden – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well sometimes the neoprene slows down circulation around your foot.. but why dont you try some capilene sock liners… those help wick moisture away from your feet…. (wet feet dont help keep you warm) Spraying the rod guides (not the river guides) with a little pam seems to help to keep ice from clinging. By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold. g

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

Charlie, I don’t know what type of fishing you are doing but here on the Great Lakes a technique used by winter steelhead fisherman for bottom bouncing egg flies and nymphs is to load their 6 – 8 wt rods with 1 or 2 wt fly line. Since this fishing usually involves lobbing split shot more than casting, a balanced outfit isn’t required. Among other things this outfit is supposed to help in minimizing the icing problems by virtue of the significant difference between the line size and the guide size(s). Along this line of thinking if you are going to go to the trouble of building a special rod for winter fishing you might want to try using oversized guides. — Steve Vaughn

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I just dip my tip into the water and shake the water off.  Works well enough, buty then I do not fish when it gets to 20 deg F.

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[snip]  I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?

I use two rods that might help.  I have a Winston 7 1/2 ft. 5 weight which is fast by Winston standards and can punch out line quite a distance yet make very delicate close in casts.  I do my winter fishing with a nine foot Loomis GL3 Megataper 8-9 weight.  It’s a saltwater rod with very large guides and tiptop, yet it has a typical GL3 delicate tip.  It isn’t a broomstick like most saltwater types. It also has a stiff butt section which allows me to grasp the rod midway and reach over to clear the tiptop.  I’m only 5′7" yet I have no problem reaching the tip.  I was fishing with it Saturday in a light snow for about three hours and I only had to clear the guides twice when they became completely blocked. Peter

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I just dip my tip into the water and shake the water off.  Works well enough, buty then I do not fish when it gets to 20 deg F.

A common trick among conventional fishers is to spray their rod guides with a Silicon spray lubricant before fishing with the occassional spray every once in a while during the day.  It’s pretty easy to give them a quick blast from the spray can now and then (no need to overdo it!)   I know there is a Silicon lubricant marketed specfically for use with monofilament line, but I’m afraid I don’t know how it might affect a fly line. Good luck, Tom Chandler

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:   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything : really work? :                                                TIA, Charlie I’ve used a Dow industrial silicone lubricant in the past that seems to work well. A very little amount rubbed on the guides, especially the tip allows the water to run or drip off before freezing. Naturally ice can still build up and the colder it is, the faster the buildup but in sane temperatures, -5 C little wind and a bit of sun, it does the job. I’v had this tube for years and don’t have any idea where you could source some now. FWIW  – Garry N. Boychuk, P.Eng. mechanical engineer, flyfisher, Zone 6b gardener

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Definitely build your custom rod with oversized guides and tip top. Additionally, you’ll have less icing if you keep your false casts to a minimum. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

Response:

Sounds like a new opportunity for the rod marketeers…Joint development project between Orvis and Prestone!  To tell ya the truth it wouldn’t surprise me a bit… — KennyM "I fish because I love to…" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Definitely build your custom rod with oversized guides and tip top. Additionally, you’ll have less icing if you keep your false casts to a minimum. Paul I spent the weekend fishing in sub-freezing conditions and spent a considerable amount of time clearing ice out of the guides. That’s pretty much how it’s going to be until April, so I’m looking for a few pointers.   Yesterday, a buddy and I spent most of the day fishing close together; when the guides iced up, you simply pointed your rod tip at your partner and let him break the ice out of the ones you couldn’t reach. That would be ideal if one always fished with a friend, but I fish alone 3/4 of the time.   I’m giving serious thought to building up a 7 1/2 ft 5wt; I’d be able to reach out and break the ice out without the risk of snapping off a tip. Does anybody have ideas, experience, or preferences regarding short 4wt or 5wt rods?   How about solutions applied to the guides and tiptop? Does anything really work?   (Oh yeah, don’t believe everything you read about the relationship between fish activity and water temperature. The water was in the thirties and the fish were feeding actively.)                                                TIA, Charlie

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By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold.

The key to keeping your feet warm is to wear boot foot waders instead of stocking foot waders. The bootfoot waders allow air to circulate from your legs down to your feet which keeps you warm. Stocking foot waders with boots on top do not allow for this circulation of air. My first time salmon fishing here in Michigan I wore my stockingfoot neoprenes and froze my feet off. A guide suggested using bootfoot waders and the next time I was warm and toasty.

Response:

Hi, I saw your post concerning fishing in the cold.  For the tip top problem, being a backpacker comes in handy. I usually have a 4oz spray can of PAM non-stick spray, which I use if I’m frying up trout which I do from time to time Usually to save weight I just gut the trout and cook the trout directly on the coals and turn often for about 6-8 minutes. OPPPS….about the PAM spray the stuff on your guides it works as a great anti-freeze.  the guides will still freeze up a bit but not as often you can cast for 4 or 5 times better than with nothing on the guides.  For my hands What I use is a pair of Playtex rubber dish washing gloves.  The gloves protect my hands from the wet spray of the water rolling down the fly line.  I also add a thin polyproplene liner inside the rubber gloves if its real real cold outside.  Hope these ideas helps.  Tight Lines   Hugo ("Fish Head")

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A lot of sporting goods shops in Michigan sell toe warmers, which are little semi-circle shaped packs with adhesive on one side to stick to the bottom of your socks.  The first time I used them, I didn’t really feel any heat, so I thought they weren’t doing much, but when I went without them the next day my feet were numb within 20 minutes.  Now I don’t go near water between October and April without them.  They sell for about 99 cents a pair. -Jon Kruse National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory Michigan State University – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where I fish the water is really cold for 3-4 months a year… For real cold conditions, I use 5 mm boot waders, 3 sizes larger than needed, which leaves plenty of space for thermal socks (2 if needed) without compressing the feet. That’s the trick. My feet never get cold even if the water is close to freezing point. – Tord Sweden well sometimes the neoprene slows down circulation around your foot.. but why dont you try some capilene sock liners… those help wick moisture away from your feet…. (wet feet dont help keep you warm) Spraying the rod guides (not the river guides) with a little pam seems to help to keep ice from clinging. By the way, what socks to you wear for that kind of weather? I’ve got a pair of Orvis wool and thermex blend socks, but my feet still get cold. g

Response:

they really make your waders stink though — — TimW Halfordian Golfer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of sporting goods shops in Michigan sell toe warmers, which are little semi-circle shaped packs with adhesive on one side to stick to the bottom of your socks.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors 2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

OK Tim, this is an ad so I consider it fair game!   — William J. Hobson, CNE,CNA Network and Computing Support Services Texas Engineering Experiment Station Phone: (409) 845-5808

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PLEASE EVERY BODY dont wast your money on this, if you want real advise book a charter boat captian, they’ll teach you how to do all that with PRIVATE instruction and are usually CHEAPER. Here is one I know http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/toccoa/Default.htm#Captain -Paradoxal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors 2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

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For Immediate Release Announcing the Boca Grande Fly fishing School’s November Session Where:  Uncle Henry’s Marina Resort in Boca Grande, Fl When:  November 14 thru 16, 1997 Levels of Experience: all levels, novice thru expert Class Size: max. 12 Instructors:  3 Theme:  "Learn to Fly Fish, not just Fly Cast" Special Features:       1. Actual fishing with your instructors                         2. All instructors present at all times                         3. Minimum classroom time                         4. Instructional text book                         5. Finest Sage rods                         6. Saturday evening Bar-B-Que Includes:       1. All tackle                 2. Fishing license                 3. Lunch and refreshments                 4. Guided fishing with your instructor What to bring: hat, sunglasses, sunscreen, rain jacket, and a Sense of Humor Cost: $495.00 per angler (Family Rates available) Contact: Capt.. Pete Greenan 1-941-923-6095 or http://www.floridaflyfishing.com/FFSchools.html — http://www.floridaflyfishing.com

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Question:

I’ll be in Albuquerque the last week of June for a conference.  I’ve scheduled a trip on the San Juan, but does anyone have any info on what’s available within a short drive of Albuquerque.  My conference ends everyday at 4:30 and I would like to fish in the evening if posssible.

There are several nice streams to fish in the Jemez. I’ve made it from Albuquerque to the Jemez streams in less than an hour on numerous occasions.  You’d be able to get in at least an hour or so of fishing in the pm if you hustle.  check- http://www.thereellife.com/reellife/reports.htm – to see what the current reports are in the jemez.  Good luck! — James Mahan — Please include J Mahan in subject line of email replies.

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I’ll be in Albuquerque the last week of June for a conference.  I’ve scheduled a trip on the San Juan, but does anyone have any info on what’s available within a short drive of Albuquerque.  My conference ends everyday at 4:30 and I would like to fish in the evening if posssible.

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That’s almost funny.  The closest decent fly fishing to Albuquerque is 1 1/2 hours in the Jemez Mountains.  Everything else if farther.  The San Juan is over 4 hours from town.  This is why I’ll be leaving the very enchanting state and heading for Michigan later this year. Gunner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ll be in Albuquerque the last week of June for a conference.  I’ve scheduled a trip on the San Juan, but does anyone have any info on what’s available within a short drive of Albuquerque.  My conference ends everyday at 4:30 and I would like to fish in the evening if posssible.

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Question:

Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale…

Hello Sandy, Give up on the scheme and settle in for the long haul. You should have more than a hundred acres if you want to start a subdivision. Or make your subdivision somewhere where you’re not ruining what you came for, like Billings. Let the beavers have the run of the place.  Beavers are more desireable than Californians.  It will be more valuable as a natural place.  If you don’t subdivide and develop it, we Californians will pay you decent money to fish it for a day or two and then best of all we will go home.   If you let me fish it free next summer I’ll make you a painting of it. I’ll leave out the houses and I can leave out the lake too if you wish. Mark Vinsel Oakland, CA http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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Mark, How badly you dissappoint! When I saw your topic I thought, "Well, this doesn’t belong in this Newsgroup either but it would be a hell of a lot more interesting to discuss". Maybe you and Fletch and T-bone and all the others who participate in the peta and tree hugging discourses should start your "rec.fishing.rag" group. It’s tough to eat beaver then, too.

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Mark, How badly you dissappoint! When I saw your topic I thought, "Well, this doesn’t belong in this Newsgroup either but it would be a hell of a lot more interesting to discuss". Maybe you and Fletch and T-bone and all the others who participate in the peta and tree hugging discourses should start your "rec.fishing.rag" group. It’s tough to eat beaver then, too.

Whoa! I think the ref tossed a flag on that remark… (At this rate, it’s gonna be a  l o n g  winter! ;^) Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

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Mark, How badly you dissappoint! When I saw your topic I thought, "Well, this doesn’t belong in this Newsgroup either but it would be a hell of a lot more interesting to discuss". Maybe you and Fletch and T-bone and all the others who participate in the peta and tree hugging discourses should start your "rec.fishing.rag" group. It’s tough to eat beaver then, too.

THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A FLY FISHING AND EVEN FLY TYING GROUP and all I see is nonsense other than what is supposed to be discussed here. Beaver dubbing is used to make a great pattern called the Adams.  It is also (grey and very fine and it dubs terrifically) used in gray nymphs and a varied number of flies well worth everyone’s attention. Beaver is not tough to eat if you pat it first. (Actually, par-boil) George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Lets get back to fly fishing!

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Question:

Greetings, So… we’re back from a great MTB camping trip out to a place called Capp’s Crossing.  Its about 14 Miles south of Hiway 50 just past Placerville in the Sierra National Forest in California.   Nice small camp site next to a running stream.  The camp site was well maintained and there was lots to do (Rock Climbing, Hiking, Swimming, Fly Fishing, MTBing, Strategic Naping, etc.) The trails in the area are generally usage maintained logging and 4WD road.  Some of the road haven’t been maintained in years, are over grown and make for a wild, rather technical run which includes running over downed logs of various sizes, deep slit tracks, erosion berms, rock gardens and a couple of drop-offs. Riding these trails was a blast but it was the first time I had encountered deep, deep slit.  This stuff was fine as talc and about 3 inches deep.  Just running straight through it  kicked up clouds of dust that coated everthing.  Riding in this stuff was a challenge.  It offers substancial rolling resistance such that rolling  into it at speed would catch you off guard and almost throw you. Anyway,  riding through this stuff felt like my backend was loose.  It would feel like it was sliding around, sideways.  My rear WTB ‘raptors did great on the climbs but my guess is that the tread pattern is optimized for climbing (duh!) and not for holding laterally (therefore, you slide).  Cornering was tough too.  I think I started getting better traction on corners when I would lean the bike way over thereby engaging the outside edging knobs.  The big trick was to stay in front so you could breath.  Otherwise you were riding in a dust storm. So you would exit the slit bed and run smack into a rock garden. Sometimes uphill, sometimes down.  Boulders ranged in size from marbles to softball.  To add to the challenge, the garden was rutted where other 4WD have driven.  That made staying on the line you chose very hard – but fun.  You had to change techniques quickly and keep up the speed lest you lose momentum, stop and be cursed by you riding buddy behind you (who can’t see you through the dust). Now with this combo of terrain I tried to keep my front pressure up at around 40 and my rear at 35 or so. Correct my if I’m wrong but for the slit you want lower TP for more tire surface area and for the rocks you want a higher TP to prevent snake-bites.  Snake-bites aside, is it generally better to run a lower TP? 35 and 30? Lower?  Too low?  Also, anyone have a experience with realy soft slit?  Tips on bike handling? ( While you at it any tips on bike handling on fire road gravel – you know, sharp, crushed rock over hard pan.  I alway get the feeling my tires are breaking traction cause the rock just rolls.) Thanx,                 _Marc Marc E. Strohwig                                Opinion? Mine, mine, mine!! System Architect SEI SIG                                           Compuserve: 70613.502   FAX: (510) 645-3096

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over downed logs of various sizes, deep slit tracks, erosion berms, … encountered deep, deep slit.  This stuff was fine as talc and about 3 … So you would exit the slit bed and run smack into a rock garden. … anyone have a experience with realy soft slit?  Tips on bike handling?

SILT. SILT. SILT. SILT. SILT. Slit: a long, narrow cut, tear or incision Silt: a sedimentary material composed of fine mineral particles (Sorry.  I don’t normally correct typos but when it is the subject of your message and you use it over and over again, it would be helpful if you spelled it right.  Same goes for the guy who wants "DISK BREAKS."  I think most of us would prefer to not break anything.) -Robin

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