Question:

Hello!  Has anyone hiked in Lake Superior Provincial Park, Ontario, Canada? I’ll be heading up there in June and I’m looking to spend a couple nights in the backcountry and flyfish.  I’d like to hike in, camp and fish, hike to a second location, and camp for the second night/fish.  Any route suggestions? TIA!

Response:

Haven’t been to that particular park, but anywhere in N.Ontario is bad for bugs at that time of year. Be prepared for blackflies and mosquitoes, i.e. bring bug jackets and bug dope (DEET).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello!  Has anyone hiked in Lake Superior Provincial Park, Ontario, Canada? I’ll be heading up there in June and I’m looking to spend a couple nights in the backcountry and flyfish.  I’d like to hike in, camp and fish, hike to a second location, and camp for the second night/fish.  Any route suggestions? TIA!

Response:

Hello!  Has anyone hiked in Lake Superior Provincial Park, Ontario, Canada? I’ll be heading up there in June and I’m looking to spend a couple nights in the backcountry and flyfish.  I’d like to hike in, camp and fish, hike to a second location, and camp for the second night/fish.  Any route suggestions? TIA!

Don’t know about fly fishing, but the Gargantua Harbour / Warp Bay area is excellent to hike and explore for several days. Orphan Lake Trail will get you down to the coast where there are several sites to pitch a tent. Peter

Response:

Question:

But, Roy, none of the planes I fly starts with a 7.  :-)

I fly a 7AC, but not in IMC.

Response:

Many responses to your question have been good and logical, but don’t consider the confusion and disorientation that can come with suddenly seeing indications on the instruments that don’t make sense or don’t agree with what you expected.

I was hoping you’d pipe in here.  It was my confusion in a holding pattern up there with you that got me searching for some way to call time out–or the closest thing I can get to that.  That’s probably why you were able to address the question so poignantly despite me not knowing how to ask it. Anyway, thanks.  You da man. — Jim

Response:

7ECA…. Yours is cooler though (Champ, right?) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But, Roy, none of the planes I fly starts with a 7.  :-) I fly a 7AC, but not in IMC.

Response:

Makes sense to me – but best laid plans are sometimes difficult to follow in the soup. Flying the missed assumes situational awareness.Yes, I could have done my best guess as per the DG – but that would have meant a lot more figuring things out. Seemed prudent to talk to ATC and get back on track. Having said that, the missed was close to coming into play, so your scenario would have been the next step.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Again, I am relatively new to IFR, but I am confused why this would be a problem. Even if all your radios and navs spin around and spit pea soup, you have a heading, and even having the DG go out leaves you with compass heading. If things go seriously wrong, I would hopefully remember the heading, stop the drop if on approach, and go missed if required. It seems to me the neat thing about a missed is you can do that with a heading only if required. I was never lost, but I was once confused in that my two CDI’s gave different info on the same approach. I called for ATC, explained the situation, got vectors and finally figured out which CDI was messed up. (Turned out to be interference between avionics equipment) I have to admit it was disconcerting to be IMC and get two completely different indications from the CDIs on an ILS, but ATC was very helpful. — True knowledge is what you learn after you know everything.

Response:

You probably won’t need to ask.  If you’re operating in a radar environment, your first indication that there’s a significant difference between where you’re heading and where you should be heading will likely be a query from the controller.

I can attest to that.  When I had my DG failure in IMC, the first hint I had that anything was wrong was a "say heading?" query from NY Approach. — Roy Smith, CFI-ASE-IA

Response:

Lost?  On instruments?  Never happened to me.  But, you twirl the knobs on the VORs and get unlost.

Tell that to the crew that flew a 757 into the mountains near Cali, Columbia.  Tell that to the crew of the flight that wandered into Soviet airspace by accident and got shot down.  Tell that to the crew that flew a perfectly good 747 into the ground in Guam. Never think it can’t happen to you. — Roy Smith, CFI-ASE-IA

Response:

Good point, and a good reminder. -Ryan Lost?  On instruments?  Never happened to me.  But, you twirl the knobs on the VORs and get unlost. Tell that to the crew that flew a 757 into the mountains near Cali, Columbia.  Tell that to the crew of the flight that wandered into Soviet airspace by accident and got shot down.  Tell that to the crew that flew a perfectly good 747 into the ground in Guam. Never think it can’t happen to you. — Roy Smith, CFI-ASE-IA

– Ryan Ferguson Pitts S-2C N312PS Twin Comanche 8259Y My flying pictures are at: http://www.fergworld.com

Response:

Lost?  On instruments?  Never happened to me.  But, you twirl the knobs on the VORs and get unlost. Tell that to the crew that flew a 757 into the mountains near Cali, Columbia.  Tell that to the crew of the flight that wandered into Soviet airspace by accident and got shot down.  Tell that to the crew that flew a perfectly good 747 into the ground in Guam. Never think it can’t happen to you.

But, Roy, none of the planes I fly starts with a 7.  :-) Matt

Response:

On the other hand, if I was at 2,000 in the L.A. basin and lost and had any doubt about the terrain, I would climb like hell while asking for help from the controller.  Better to bust a clearance than wind up flying into a mountain. The probably with this is then you might eat an airliner.

Given a choice between a possible CFIT and a possible mid-air, I’ll risk the mid-air any day.  Not only are the mountains bigger targets than the airliners, they also don’t have TCAS. — Roy Smith, CFI-ASE-IA

Response:

<snip of exactly the type of stuff I was looking for but wasn’t sure exactly how to ask–You, too, Ron Non-Critical emergency: An emergency such that no matter what action you

take, you will die. Snicker.  Filed in mental "quotable quotes" folder. — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

As the other posters have pointed out, the ‘where’, ‘when’, and ‘how’ of lost is a big factor.   Assuming you have at least a NAV/AID available this simply shouldn’t happen at least in the big picture.   If you don’t have it sorted out soon (especially if you are on ‘own nav’) you better ask on the radio! Here’s something I used to do to sharpen my ‘where the hell am I’ skills… I would call up a regional map on my IFR sim (IFT Pro was great for this). Close my eyes and click the mouse to position my A/C on some unforseen random location and then start up the sim, plane in the air, IMC.  Since I new generally where I was (within a 100 miles) I’d start dialing up the VOR’s trying to fix my position.  Of course this is child’s play with a VOR/DME but get’s more challenging if you resign yourself to just the ADF or just the DME.  One of my instructors was so good about teaching VOR/CDI tricks (will this heading intercept the 245 radial?  How close to the station are you?) that getting lost with a working NAV/AID just doesn’t seem likely to me anymore.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over? Yeah, I know, it’s a nebulous issue and the answer is to aviate, navigate and communicate.  Vectors are sometimes (always?) an option, of course. But I’m fishing for some very general guidelines, perhaps some anecdotal stories, on what you did when you suddenly realized you were lost in IMC. What got you in that fix to begin with? C’mon, fess up! — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Most of these issues rely on the principle that if you are headed accurately from a know position, then suddenly switching to a much less accurate form of navigation will result in a badly off position only given a lot of time. Ie., you know your heading, should have a good idea when your next fix eta is, you aren’t going to be far off even if murphy suddenly sticks you back into a dark cockpit with only a flashlight aimed at the compass and your watch. No matter what the situation, radio working or not, is to perform what you were cleared to do. Thats what you last knew, thats what they expect. Circling, doing something odd, whatever, its just going to make the situation worse, IMHO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over? Yeah, I know, it’s a nebulous issue and the answer is to aviate, navigate and communicate.  Vectors are sometimes (always?) an option, of course.  But I’m fishing for some very general guidelines, perhaps some anecdotal stories, on what you did when you suddenly realized you were lost in IMC. What got you in that fix to begin with? C’mon, fess up! — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

– True knowledge is what you learn after you know everything.

Response:

I was never lost, but I was once confused in that my two CDI’s gave different info on the same approach. I called for ATC, explained the situation, got vectors and finally figured out which CDI was messed up. (Turned out to be interference between avionics equipment) I have to admit it was disconcerting to be IMC and get two completely different indications from the CDIs on an ILS, but ATC was very helpful.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over? Yeah, I know, it’s a nebulous issue and the answer is to aviate, navigate and communicate.  Vectors are sometimes (always?) an option, of course. But I’m fishing for some very general guidelines, perhaps some anecdotal stories, on what you did when you suddenly realized you were lost in IMC. What got you in that fix to begin with? C’mon, fess up! — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Lost?  On instruments?  Never happened to me.  But, you twirl the knobs on the VORs and get unlost.  The needles are pretty hard to misinterpret.  If you lose electrical you get on your handheld and start talking to ATC. Ryan http://www.fergworld.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over? Yeah, I know, it’s a nebulous issue and the answer is to aviate, navigate and communicate.  Vectors are sometimes (always?) an option, of course.  But I’m fishing for some very general guidelines, perhaps some anecdotal stories, on what you did when you suddenly realized you were lost in IMC. What got you in that fix to begin with? C’mon, fess up! — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

If I would unsure I would just ask.  It’s that ten second position check. "Center, Cessna 1234, verify that you who me 10 miles from Podunk VOR on the 120 radial." jerry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over? Yeah, I know, it’s a nebulous issue and the answer is to aviate, navigate and communicate.  Vectors are sometimes (always?) an option, of course. But I’m fishing for some very general guidelines, perhaps some anecdotal stories, on what you did when you suddenly realized you were lost in IMC. What got you in that fix to begin with? C’mon, fess up! — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Whoops, should be you SHOW me 10 miles….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I would unsure I would just ask.  It’s that ten second position check. "Center, Cessna 1234, verify that you who me 10 miles from Podunk VOR on the 120 radial." jerry Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over? Yeah, I know, it’s a nebulous issue and the answer is to aviate, navigate and communicate.  Vectors are sometimes (always?) an option, of course. But I’m fishing for some very general guidelines, perhaps some anecdotal stories, on what you did when you suddenly realized you were lost in IMC. What got you in that fix to begin with? C’mon, fess up! — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over?

ATC would probably not appreciate an unannounced circle and ascent. And, obviously, pulling over isn’t an option.  I’m guessing this is a troll question, but I’ll give it a serious answer anyway. I’ve never had this happen, but it if did, I’d immediately confess to ATC that I’d lost situational awareness and ask them where I was! Matt

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What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?

You probably won’t need to ask.  If you’re operating in a radar environment, your first indication that there’s a significant difference between where you’re heading and where you should be heading will likely be a query from the controller. Immediately circle and ascend?

I suppose it depends where you are.  If you’re in Alaska and in uncontrolled airspace climbing probably won’t make your situation any worse.  In controlled airspace over Iowa it’s a different story. Call "time out" and pull over?

Are you flying a helicopter?  Beware of the traffic behind you.

Response:

On the other hand, if I was at 2,000 in the L.A. basin and lost and had any doubt about the terrain, I would climb like hell while asking for help from the controller.  Better to bust a clearance than wind up flying into a mountain.

The probably with this is then you might eat an airliner. Bottom line is life is not good if you loss situational awareness. The penalty for not paying attention while flying in IMC can be death.  Serious stuff.

Response:

Again, I am relatively new to IFR, but I am confused why this would be a problem. Even if all your radios and navs spin around and spit pea soup, you have a heading, and even having the DG go out leaves you with compass heading. If things go seriously wrong, I would hopefully remember the heading, stop the drop if on approach, and go missed if required. It seems to me the neat thing about a missed is you can do that with a heading only if required. I was never lost, but I was once confused in that my two CDI’s gave different info on the same approach. I called for ATC, explained the situation, got vectors and finally figured out which CDI was messed up. (Turned out to be interference between avionics equipment) I have to admit it was disconcerting to be IMC and get two completely different indications from the CDIs on an ILS, but ATC was very helpful.

– True knowledge is what you learn after you know everything.

Response:

Well, there are always those time/distance exercises you had to learn: go wandering off the airway while you’re lost so you can figure out how far it is to the next checkpoint. Personally, if I had a radio aid to use for that I would just fly to the radio aid and not give a dead rat how far away it is. Basically, lost in IMC is done the same way as lost in VMC: figure out your last know position, check your heading and time from there to approximate your current position, check it against radio aids. Maintain last assigned altitude and heading. Call for radar vectors. Climbing in circles is likely to induce vestibular problems, so don’t do that. If you’ve lost your electrics, backup radios and handheld GPS can be of some help. Again, check your last known position, use your heading and time to approximate where you are now. Check that against MEAs/MORAs. Climb in a straight line, if necessary, and follow IFR lost comm procedures. If you really haven’t got a clue and no help is available, consider other options. If you know you are near a coastline, for example, consider flying out over the ocean and gingerly descending until you can see the water, turn around and fly back to the coast. Use a deliberate offset so that you know you are coming in south, for example, of a known point on the coastline, then follow the coastline up to that point. If you are in a single engine plane in mountainous terrain, IMC at night, lost, and low on fuel, you have what is called a non-critical emergency. Critical emergency: An emergency such that if prompt action is not taken, you will die. Non-Critical emergency: An emergency such that no matter what action you take, you will die.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over? Yeah, I know, it’s a nebulous issue and the answer is to aviate, navigate and communicate.  Vectors are sometimes (always?) an option, of course. But I’m fishing for some very general guidelines, perhaps some anecdotal stories, on what you did when you suddenly realized you were lost in IMC. What got you in that fix to begin with? C’mon, fess up!

Consider two kinds of lost.  One is being unable to accurately locate your position due to complete electrical failure or some such.  For that kind of case, I carry a handheld GPS in my flight bag (with spare batteries), and I turn it on every week or so for 30 minutes or so to let it update its almanac.  The unit is always kept where I can reach it and retrieve it without looking.  I also carry a handheld radio.  With this, I can find my lat/long quickly and can then dead reckon toward a letdown point, using the GPS occasionally to refine my navigation.  I have practiced this. The other kind of lost is a temporary loss of positional awareness during a busy instrument approach or even a hold.  Many responses to your question have been good and logical, but don’t consider the confusion and disorientation that can come with suddenly seeing indications on the instruments that don’t make sense or don’t agree with what you expected. This can lead to panic.  In some terrain you just can’t keep flying while you try to figure it out or wait for ATC to call you and ask what the hell is going on, you need to do something fast.  I have been developing the habit of defining my "lost" procedure before entering an approach.  It consists of a heading and an altitude, and I jot it down on my kneeboard and draw a square around it.  The heading is the final aproach course and the altitude is the MSA.  If I get "lost", meaning I have lost positional awareness of exactly where I am relative to the procedure and am confused, my default procedure is to climb like hell and turn to the FAC.  Then I can call ATC and ask for vectors for the missed if I’m still lost.  Not a perfect solution nor a universal one, but it is something, and seems to me to be better than doing nothing and flying into a mountain. This kind of "lost" results from a breakdown or interruption of the mental processes required to execute a procedure while keeping the "picture" in your mind.  If you suddenly "lose the picture", especially while in a maneuver, the resulting disorientation and confusion negates recovery procedures based on application of logical thought processes.  If you can stabilize your situation, such as by just flying a heading, the ability to think logically can return quickly, and then you can puzzle out the problem, but you don’t always have time to do that.  I have heard that this mental lapse of "losing the picture" happens to controllers also. I got "lost" in a hold once in IMC.  I was flying a MAHP with GPS, there was a hefty wind, I got a little off track flying inbound to the holding fix, and somehow misjudged when to start my turn.  When I rolled out of the turn, I couldn’t immediately make any sense of the indications and got confused. I was "lost" in the sense of not knowing where I was relative to the fix. Not good.  In a hold, my default is to fly the outbound heading. I think Jim’s question, which is similar to one posted by Mike Horowitz a while back, is a good one.  Especially for inexperienced instrument pilots, or insufficiently proficient ones, there will be times, however infrequent, when confusion sets in, and it is worthwhile to think through these things and try to come up with no-brain default actions that, while not perfect, are likely to be better than doing nothing. I’m sure some people are so cool and competent that they never get lost or never get confused or panicked when something goes wrong, and I envy them. I have been lost in IMC, in the second sense and on an approach, and it is about the scariest thing I could imagine.  When that happened, I realized that I had to have some simple no-brain procedure to do something if I temporarily lost my thinking power due to confusion.  Otherwise, I would do nothing for a while, perhaps too long. Stan Prevost

Response:

Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over?

I’ve never been lost in IMC, but if I were, it would depend where I was flying.  If I was over Iowa at 5,000 I would tell the controller I was lost and get some help.  On the other hand, if I was at 2,000 in the L.A. basin and lost and had any doubt about the terrain, I would climb like hell while asking for help from the controller.  Better to bust a clearance than wind up flying into a mountain. BTW, how lost is "lost"?  A mile off course?  A hundred miles?  You’re never totally lost, I mean, you know what state your in, right?  :) So you’ll have some basic info about the terrain.   If you get lost while having a total electrical failure you’re on your own, so you better not be lost.  If you are, then use your head and think about the weather and terrain.  Where is the VMC?  Where is the low terrain?  Around here, the lowest terrain is over the ocean.  If I had to get down and had no nav or com capability and widespread low IMC that I couldn’t climb on top of, I’d fly out over the ocean and descend until I was below the clouds, then scud run my way back to the coast.   Of course, with a handheld nav/com, a handheld GPS, extra batteries, etc. I doubt it would ever come to that.  A lot of things would have to break at the same time that the weather was at its absolute worst and I’d have to get lost on top of it all. There are a lot of little failure modes that they don’t necessarily teach you about when you’re training for the instrument rating.  But you learn enough to be able to use your head and make educated decisions when fate (or your own idiocy) throws you a curveball. –Ron

Response:

Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over? Yeah, I know, it’s a nebulous issue and the answer is to aviate, navigate and communicate.  Vectors are sometimes (always?) an option, of course.  But I’m fishing for some very general guidelines, perhaps some anecdotal stories, on what you did when you suddenly realized you were lost in IMC. What got you in that fix to begin with? C’mon, fess up! — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

So long as my  navigation equipment is working, I won’t get lost in IMC. I worry about aircraft control, getting into a steep bank or something, but getting lost is not something that has ever come close to happening. IT is not impossible, if I was out of radio comm and lost my navigation both GPS and VOR (or out of range of VOR). But it’s not likely. Lots of other more likely things to worry about. So long as I am in radar contact and have radio contact, and have Gyros I am OK. Most important navigation equipment is a radio, IMHO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stupid question #5,146 What do you folks do when you suddenly realize you aren’t where you thought you were in IMC?  Do you simply ask for vectors?  Immediately circle and ascend?  Call "time out" and pull over? Yeah, I know, it’s a nebulous issue and the answer is to aviate, navigate and communicate.  Vectors are sometimes (always?) an option, of course.  But I’m fishing for some very general guidelines, perhaps some anecdotal stories, on what you did when you suddenly realized you were lost in IMC. What got you in that fix to begin with? C’mon, fess up! — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

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Question:

Anyone know why this wonderful show is no longer carried by the "Toronto Sports Network" (TSN). I think one would be hard pressed to find a better show in the genre and I am sooo sick of the current offerings, really almost totally void of any quality fly fishing programs – I think if I see Henry and Italio again I’m going to take hostages! You have to wonder that if the CRTC was abolished tommorrow, most of the fishing shows currently we are forced to watch would not last one season. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Anyone know why this wonderful show is no longer carried by the "Toronto Sports Network" (TSN). I think one would be hard pressed to find a better show in the genre and I am sooo sick of the current offerings, really almost totally void of any quality fly fishing programs – I think if I see Henry and Italio again I’m going to take hostages! You have to wonder that if the CRTC was abolished tommorrow, most of the fishing shows currently we are forced to watch would not last one season.

Bill Ya, the show just disappeared off the tube and I haven’t seen a trace of it.  Speaking of hostages and H & I, these shows are total hostages of the sponsors, they have to work in the product constantly to the point that the show is a 30 minute commercial.  IBFF never once mentioned the product and concentrated on fishing, maybe that was their downfall? Peter

Response:

The show was finded by OLF and was not renewed after it’s second season was completed last year. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know why this wonderful show is no longer carried by the "Toronto Sports Network" (TSN). I think one would be hard pressed to find a better show in the genre and I am sooo sick of the current offerings, really almost totally void of any quality fly fishing programs – I think if I see Henry and Italio again I’m going to take hostages! You have to wonder that if the CRTC was abolished tommorrow, most of the fishing shows currently we are forced to watch would not last one season. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Question:

The real cowards of America today are two houses of government that need total replacement for allowing this fool occupy the highest office in this land.  Is there no way to stop this criminal and his hooligans?         of course, george:  capital punishment.  surely you have noticed that it has solved all our other problems. wayno

____  I’m on your side Wayne.  I’m not one of "those".  Preaching to the wrong dude.  How goes you and Anthony fly fishing? — — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

                           Tom Littleton

I would rather have the chaos of Buchanan than the stupidity of Bush or the traitorship of Gore.  At least Buchanan would have our southern borders shut down by now and there would be a real war against narcotics.  I’d be willing to try just four years with that gentleman. At least he has Presidential stature and a moral ethnic that would clean house.  I mean, CLEAN HOUSE!  That alone will take four years.  Need a shit kicker that has some brains and a strong will that, as you complained about, "Thinks for Himself!" — — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

What is "queer mongering?" Shawn,A Long Island Layabout

Response:

What is "queer mongering?" Shawn,A Long Island Layabout

I cetainly hope it’s not like fish mongering, but with queers. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Mr.G/American Sportsman wrote  Is there no way to stop this criminal and his hooligans? No.  Give it up. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Flypaint wrote What is "queer mongering?"

Mongering in an unconventional fashion? —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

What is "queer mongering?" Shawn,A Long Island Layabout

Ask G, I’m sure he’s an expert on the subject. — Charlie…

Response:

At least he has Presidential stature and a moral ethnic that would clean house.  I mean, CLEAN HOUSE! MrG/American Sportsman

So just which "ethnic" will Mr. Buchannan be using to clean his house ? I can’t imagine any "ethnic" wanting to work for a man with his views. Bob Smith Before you buy.

Response:

Bob Smith writes: At least he has Presidential stature and a moral ethnic that would clean house.  I mean, CLEAN HOUSE! MrG/American Sportsman So just which "ethnic" will Mr. Buchannan be using to clean his house ? I can’t imagine any "ethnic" wanting to work for a man with his views. Bob Smith

Come on, Bob.  It’s those "moral" ethnics as opposed to those immoral ones. <g Jo and I flew from D.C. to Boston on a Sunday morning a few years ago. Buchannan and his wife were the only other passengers in first class.  They sat directly opposite us.  Every time I looked at him, he was staring at my wife and then me.  I never spoke or gave any indication that I knew who he was. Probably pissed off the nazi bastard.  His wife seemed very nice, however. Dave LaCourse

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob Smith writes: At least he has Presidential stature and a moral ethnic that would clean house.  I mean, CLEAN HOUSE! MrG/American Sportsman So just which "ethnic" will Mr. Buchannan be using to clean his house ? I can’t imagine any "ethnic" wanting to work for a man with his views. Bob Smith Come on, Bob.  It’s those "moral" ethnics as opposed to those immoral ones. <g Jo and I flew from D.C. to Boston on a Sunday morning a few years ago. Buchannan and his wife were the only other passengers in first class.  They sat directly opposite us.  Every time I looked at him, he was staring at my wife and then me.  I never spoke or gave any indication that I knew who he was. Probably pissed off the nazi bastard.  His wife seemed very nice, however. Dave LaCourse

You aren’t telling me "gasp" that you and your wife are of diferrent races or something are you ? That or he’s a perv who openly oggles another mans wife.I guess he’d glare at me and Liz. When Liz is tan her Cherokee ancestry really stands out. And she ain’t hard to look at ! It’s gonna be an interesting 4 months. A buddy of mine is moving to England and staying with family there if Gore gets elected. Says he couldn’t take 4 more years of the " Clinton Regime " and he has an option. Lucky bastard. Bob Before you buy.

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______  The problem is the American People are too stupid to realize that the Federal Reserve and the powers that be are presenting them two candidates that shouldn’t even be voted in as dog catchers!  You dumb shits! What you need to do is write in someone that loves guns and hates people sneaking into the United States illegally. Among other things, the Office needs a person of high moral standard. Kick the narcotic using bastards out! The rest of you need to get a life! — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

You called it. By the way, most people are too stupid to realize the Mayans invented television and that Atlantis is in fact now Atlanta. Peace love and understanding…or not. Alex

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  The problem is the American People are too stupid to realize that the Federal Reserve and the powers that be are presenting them two candidates that shouldn’t even be voted in as dog catchers!  You dumb shits! What you need to do is write in someone that loves guns and hates people sneaking into the United States illegally. Among other things, the Office needs a person of high moral standard. Kick the narcotic using bastards out! The rest of you need to get a life! — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

I’ve always been impressed with their cast-rate. alex

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is "queer mongering?" Shawn,A Long Island Layabout I cetainly hope it’s not like fish mongering, but with queers. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Or, the old old saying: ya can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr.G/American Sportsman wrote  Is there no way to stop this criminal and his hooligans? No.  Give it up. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Boy, this is a new twist. Queer mongering? I thought the problem was Clinton was hetero. Well slap me dumb and call me senseless, the whole thing makes sense now. Face it: Clinton’s problem is that he kicked the moribund Republican assholes out of office and managed the country into prosperity. He did it thru fiscal conservatism, fighting off the regulators, reforming welfare, giving high tech the freedom to blossom and giving the American working stiff half a break. Along the way a whole new segment of America’s creative people got rich. Its the old guard and their wanna-bees, and their campfollowers, who hate his ass the most. He had the audacity to steal the few good ideas the Rs had and it makes them furious. That, and of course his blowjob, and probably the fact that he is a Southern populist. They hated Carter too, as much for his accent as anything. Maybe someone can remind me just when  and who was the last R pres  who gave half a shit for working people in this country. The Rs had a chance with McCain. I would have overlooked some of his repub claptrap (I do it all the time with goofy Dem ideas) and voted for him just because he came off as honest and his own man. Instead the money boys gave the nomination to a clown that makes Gore look like a paragon of competence. So I’ll be voting "D" this year because , in spite of all their nonsense, at least their dime’s worth of difference is on the side of the working people and creative minds of this country. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is "queer mongering?" Shawn,A Long Island Layabout Ask G, I’m sure he’s an expert on the subject. — Charlie…

Response:

Face it: Clinton’s problem is that he kicked the moribund Republican assholes out of office and managed the country into prosperity. He did it thru fiscal conservatism, fighting off the regulators, reforming welfare, giving high tech the freedom to blossom and giving the American working stiff half a break. Along the way a whole new segment of America’s creative people got rich.

Nah. It was all due to Alan Greenspan. Maybe someone can remind me just when  and who was the last R pres  who gave half a shit for working people in this country.

Abraham Lincoln? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Boy, this is a new twist. Queer mongering? I thought the problem was Clinton was hetero. It was the military issue David.  

George is just upset because they let fruitcakes like himself into the military.      - Ken

Response:

Am I the only person in the United States that notices the many different colors of hair Bill Clinton wears from day to day?  It ranges from a dark sandy to regular sandy hair to light gray hair, until today when it suddenly turned totally WHITE!  Who are the makeup artists that are doing this whitewash job with a lame duck lying, two faced, queer mongering, dope smoking, draft dodging, traitor of the United States who gives China our military secrets, bastard?!   The real cowards of America today are two houses of government that need total replacement for allowing this fool occupy the highest office in this land.  Is there no way to stop this criminal and his hooligans? MrG/American Sportsman "the saga continues"

Response:

The real cowards of America today are two houses of government that need total replacement for allowing this fool occupy the highest office in this land.  Is there no way to stop this criminal and his hooligans?

If you find a answer/solution to this one, you got my vote.  A lot of people my age are fed up with the business as usual, self-serving, pork barrel politics that we have witnessed all of our lives.  Maybe in the near future the X’ers will clean house, who knows. I look at roff and I think at times I could build the perfect President by taking bits and pieces of people here.  At times I find the best of people here can match those found anywhere else.   Take a little of  Wayno’s diplomacy, ET1&2’s attitude, RW’s touchy feeling stuff (or his stock market knowledge, perhaps both), a little LaCourse for his arboriculture and knowledge of pets for the White House (baaa-d),  a lot of Mike C for his way with words, vast knowledge base and willingness to help, a little Dave S to say what needs to be said, a little Vern for his innocence and honesty, a little Opie for his sense of humor, and a little Mr G because we need someone who is crazy enough to actually do the things that need to be done. I could go on and on and on but this was too long as it is.  If I didn’t mention you, don’t worry because  I didn’t forget you.  I just wanted to make sure I didn’t put anyone to sleep as I made the list.  Frank, Wayne, Frank, Steve, Levi, Jon, John, Peter and the rest of you that I didn’t mention, I will some other time because you all have ingredients for the recipe. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

The real cowards of America today are two houses of government that need total replacement for allowing this fool occupy the highest office in this land.  Is there no way to stop this criminal and his hooligans?

        of course, george:  capital punishment.  surely you have noticed that it has solved all our other problems. wayno

Response:

Take a little of  Wayno’s diplomacy, ET1&2’s attitude,

        if you equip our candidate with the evil twins’ attitude, you are gonna need a helluva lot more diplomacy than i can summon to save the campaign from an early demise!         wayno, whose campaign slogan is "two pots for every garage"

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George writes: The real cowards of America today are two houses of government that need total replacement for allowing this fool occupy the highest office in this land.  Is there no way to stop this criminal and his hooligans?

Given a 40 percent voter turnout for the last couple of Presidential elections, the houses that need to wake up would not seem to the houses of Congress, George. Look what apathy has given us for a field this year!  Two major party candidates who both seem incapable of independent thought, a Green party candidate that often seems unaware of his own party’s agenda and Buchanan(Nazi Lite). Yeesh!                            Tom Littleton

Response:

Am I the only person in the United States that notices the many different colors of hair Bill Clinton wears from day to day?  It ranges from a dark sandy to regular sandy hair to light gray hair, until today when it suddenly turned totally WHITE!  Who are the makeup artists that are doing this whitewash job with a lame duck lying, two faced, queer mongering, dope smoking, draft dodging, traitor of the United States who gives China our military secrets, bastard?!

Maybe he hired Ronald Reagan’s hairdresser. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Maybe he hired Ronald Reagan’s hairdresser.

Krylon or Rustoleum? — Charlie…

Response:

if you equip our candidate with the evil twins’ attitude, you are gonna need a helluva lot more diplomacy than i can summon to save the campaign from an early demise!

I don’t know.  I think people are ready for something new.  Someone who will say what needs to be said instead of what they think we need to hear.  Besides, they have been pretty quiet lately and you have been very diplomatic <g Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have any suggestions about flyfishing around Taos, NM. in July, 2000. Thanks Al

also a bit of a drive, but worth it, would be the red river, rio costilla and the vallecitos. there’s also some high alpine lakes around the area. call los rios anglers in taos 505.758.2798.

Response:

Does anyone have any suggestions about flyfishing around Taos, NM. in July, 2000. Thanks Al

Response:

Does anyone have any suggestions about flyfishing around Taos, NM. in July, 2000. Thanks Al

The Rio Grande, the Rio Hondo, and the Rio Chiquito are the "usual". The Rio Pueblo de Taos has good sized trout too, but it’s littered with junk cars and the locals are prone to use the cars for plinkin’ practice. With a bit of a drive you can get to the Cimarron, it’s a stocked tailwater which doesn’t interest me a great deal, but it may be your best bet for catching a lot of fish in July. The fly shop in Taos is EXCELLENT. Don’t remember the name but it’s right on the main drag. They will tell you about some places to catch small wild fish that I won’t. Also, _Taylor Streit’s No Nonsense Guide to Fly Fishing in New Mexico_ by Taylor Streit, David Banks (Editor), Pete Chadwell (Illustrator), David Marketing Communications; ISBN: 0963725661, is highly recommended. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

    (snip)     If you fish many lager streams or lakes you will want a 9 foot rod. Where can I find these lakes and streams of lager? Charlie, drooling

Response:

   (snip)    If you fish many lager streams or lakes you will want a 9 foot rod. Where can I find these lakes and streams of lager?

If you find a lake of lager you’ll *think* you have a 9′ rod no matter what size it is<g. — Charlie…

Response:

   If you fish many lager streams or lakes you will want a 9 foot rod. Where can I find these lakes and streams of lager?

I’d offer to show you a few, except that someone in your office might call that an "improper influence" Besides, they’re actually all streams of India pale ales. Except for one that’s gotta be Beamish Stout Ale. Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bill Kiene writes: Hi Tony, Out here in northern California, we sell more 9 foot rods than anything else. If you do much stream fishing, you might like an 8′ 6" rod. If you fish many lager streams or lakes you will want a 9 foot rod. Rods sales are falling off for the long rods of the 80s and 90s. We use to sell way more 9′6" and 10′ rods, but I think they were not as much fun to fish as the shorter rods. Does the difference in length make that much difference? (In fly-fishing, of course!)  I’m looking at Orvis’ Silver Label 5 wt. Checked them both out at an Orvis store.  The 8′ 6" seemed more managable, but 6" shouldn’t make that much of a difference. Tony

George Gehrke take note:  Notice how Bill Kiene answered the question, gave his opinion and advice, and did so without mentioning his fly fishing business or any other commercial stuff.  And he doesn’t expect to get paid for it. Dave L.

Response:

Does the difference in length make that much difference? (In fly-fishing, of course!)  I’m looking at Orvis’ Silver Label 5 wt. Checked them both out at an Orvis store.  The 8′ 6" seemed more managable, but 6" shouldn’t make that much of a difference. Tony

Response:

In actual fact that 6" may make a very great deal of difference in various circumstances.  If you are casting from high undergrowth, from a float tube, or you need the extra length to manipulate line, high sticking nymphs in riffles and pools, etc etc.   Even under more or less normal circumstances the longer rod will enable you to cast more easily.  If you are fishing small overgrown streams for instance, where you can not wade to avoid trees and bushes, then a shorter rod is usually more convenient. But in that case I would tend to use something in the 7

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – % % % % % I don’t know, but if this guy % is for real……he scares me!!!! % % This is the strait scoop.  Theres % nothing to be scared of unless your a % smartmouth like that stooge guy Moe. % % % Me, too!  Strangely, I’m reminded % of the thread from late % Summer/early Fall that dealt % with stories of sabotage, flattened % tires and other acts against fisher % people…  hmmmmmmmmmmmmm! % % I dont know nothin about that % stuff.  I just started posting % here.   I know % about guys who got their tires % slashed when they fished here in NY on them % Indian reservations.   You gotta % watch out for some of them jamokes when %they % go on the warpath.  I could tell % you stories but I dont got the time now. %The % little lady is already bitchin % cause Im running the computer instead of %helping % with her dishes. % % MEOW!!!! % % Tony G. % % % -tran % Oakland, CA % % % % % % % % THIS POSTED IN ALT.FAN.KARL-MALDEN.NOSE, %ALT.ALIEN.VAMPIRE.FLONK.FLONK.FLONK, % REC.OUTDOORS.FISHING.FLY  REC.OUTDOORS % FISHING.BASS, ALT.FISHING % % BOYCOTT THE COLEMAN STORE FOR CENSHORSHIP % www.rochesterweb.com/colemans % a.f.k-m.n.n (newbie)number of 2. % THIS POSTED IN ALT.FAN.KARL-MALDEN.NOSE, %ALT.ALIEN.VAMPIRE.FLONK.FLONK.FLONK, % REC.OUTDOORS.FISHING.FLY % REC.OUTDOORS FISHING.BASS, ALT.FISHING % % BOYCOTT THE COLEMAN STORE FOR CENSHORSHIP % www.rochesterweb.com/colemans % a.f.k-m.n.n (newbie)number of 2. % %PROBLEM THE FIRST: Adding "Subject" %to the subject header %is stupid and redundant and %fucks up the way that many %newsreaders, including Mozilla %and Agent, display threads. % %PROBLEM THE SECOND: You did not %x-post this to AFKMN, or %for that matter anywhere else, %and especially not any of %the groups that you list. In %fact, all of the people you %replied too will likely never %see your posts for this %reason. (You will note that %this has been corrected, %and I even added alt.flame %to the headers, because I %felt like flaming a newbie %anyway. You’re welcome.) % %PROBLEM THE THIRD: We (TINW) %do not issue "newbie %numbers". I don’t know who %told you that, and whoever %it is is probably going to be %really pissed that I ruined %the joke, but that’s the truth. % %PROBLEM THE FOURTH: Your grammar sucks. % %PROBLEM THE FIFTH: You make no %attempt at making anything %even vaguely resembling UPA. %This of course makes me %wonder why you are here in %the first place, unless of %course you are one of those %stupid newbie me-tooers that %have been plaguing us recently. %Which is in fact very %likely. % %PROBLEM THE SIXTH: You posted %your sig twice. Way to %go, dipshit. % %PROBLEM THE SEVENTH: You suck. % %CONCLUSION: I’d plonk you, but %I’m actually vaguely %interested as to how you react to this. % %– %mhm37×4                   crisis at quackquack dot com % %"They call them ‘bouncing %baby boys’, but they don’t really %bounce. They just sort of go ‘plop’." % %      -Bruce McCulloch % %Mr. Crisis; % %I dont got a lot of time to post %this morning.  I got up late and I gotta open %the shop up for the boys in a few minutes. % %I wrote Mr. Crisis cause I dont know %if your a guy or a girl from your name but %Im guessing your a guy.   If Im wrong %I figger you’ll let me know. % %I know Im a newbie and I figger %like most places this is some kind of %initation.  Im cool with that.  So %Im not gonna get insulting back at you %because that probably wouldnt be %the Meow way and Im trying to be a good Meower %now.  I hope I pass the initation. % %Ive been reading the Nose for weeks %now and I dont remeber seeing too much from %you before.  Your probably one of %them lower rankin Meowers that they use for %the initations.  Your not one of the %big time Meowers like Medcial Catastrophy. % Thats ok because you still rank higher %than me.  Its like us guys at the %volunteer fire dept all got different ranks. % %It dont always got anything to do %with how long you been somewhere neither.   I %been with the fire dept for 12 years %now but I take orders from the guy whose %Captain even though hes only been there %6 years and Im bigger than he is and I %could kick his behind if I wanted to. %   I figger its somethin like that. % %Im doing good as a mewoer so far. %Ive got all kinds of guys pissed off in all %them fishin groups and there talking %about ratting on me to compuserv and me %losing my account with compuserv. %Dont you people call that netpolice?  They %dont want me posting there because %they dont want to here nothing bad about the %fishing and the guys lifting and %snaggin the fish all the tiem. % %Before I go I wanted to talk about %some of them problems you mentioned.  Thanks %for posting to all those groups all %at once for me.   With this compuserv crap %I cant crosspost nothin.   The reason %for stuff being in my posts twice is %because Ive been copying and then %pasting all these posts to new posts and then %posting to each group individually. %It sure takes a lot of time and thats why %I dont have a lot of time to respond today. % %As far as them newbie numbers I got. %I got 3133T from Medical Catastrophy and %the other one I got from Scott Johnson. %I dont know what the Meow policy is on %them numbers but I figger that Medical % Catastrophy knows what hes talkin about. % Youll have to take it up with him. %Hes like your boss right? % %PS  Whats UPA?   I cant talk intelligent %about it if I dont know what it is. % %PPS   I know my writing sucks but %its better than it used to be.  Im trying but %its hard.  Its always been hard.   The %penguins were always making me stay %after school as a kid at the Catholic %school there.  I want to be a writer %though so I can write good stuff %about the storys my dad used to tell me about %WW2 and Toe Joe and Hero Hito. % %Ill see ya.  Thanks again. % %MEOW!!!!! % %Tony G.  3133T This troll.  It is simply too obvious. I will not respond to it. hey toneyg im liek teh lowest rankeing dued here next to loerd corkscrewbutt so yuo can litsen to me but be suer not to copey anytheing i do or respeong to me or yuoll be immeddieatetly gieven a vrey low mewo rank henvieng said thet i hace to respecteufleley disagree weth teh

Question:

Try the white mountains near Apache country. When are you going? Buddy of mine hit the white and black river at around 8000 feet or so in mid March, and streams were high from runoff. These rivers have the fabled apache trout, which appears to resemble a brown trout after a slipped disk operation. Nice looking fish. High water in March skunked our trip, but beautiful country, and i hope to go back. Alex Pacek – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what are the best spots in az for a flyfishing/backpacking trip?  and not the grand canyon.  thanks

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what are the best spots in az for a flyfishing/backpacking trip?  and not the grand canyon.  thanks

Response:

Question:

I just moved to Los Angeles from Pennsylvania, where I’d be flyfishing for trout every weekend. I’m looking for suggestions for the closest stream to LA where I catch some west coast trout. Thanks. —

Response:

I just moved to Los Angeles from Pennsylvania, where I’d be flyfishing for trout every weekend. I’m looking for suggestions for the closest stream to LA where I catch some west coast trout. Thanks. —

If you like lake fishing, there are many around that have stocked fish, incl. Castaic and Piru, north off 5 about 1 hr. If you like big rivers with wild fish–like the Madison–you’re out of luck.   If you like small streams with small wild rainbows and occaisional browns, use this formula: ANY stream in the San Gabriel or San Bernardino Mountains that runs year ’round has them.  Get out a map, explore and remember two rules of thumb:  For maximum fishing pleasure, DON’T fish on the weekends; but if you have to fish weekends, get as far from other people as possible by hiking. You might want to try the East Fork of the San Gabriel River above Azusa off Hwy. 39.  If you get back in a few miles you might be able to get away from most everyone else.  (The West Fork is a C&R wild trout area, but they ave been working on the dam upstream; when they do this, the water goes off color and is not fun to fish.)

Response:

Question:

Can anyone give me any tips on what kind of containers to use while applying beads to a piece of work.  After I have them out of the baggie (where I store them in thier little plastic containers) I find that if I leave them in the little plastic containers they spill all over the place.  If I pour them out of their containers into the baggies and then try to get one at a time…well lets just say my carpet is well beaded.:-)  Any suggestions greatly appreciated. TIA Doris

Response:

I keep my beads in camera film containers.  When I’m beading, I put them on the top lid of a plastic shoebox.  The higher sides keep the beads from rolling off and I don’t have to put the beads away at night because I can just sit the shoebox on the floor with the lid until morning. Pamela CALVIN: "You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don’t          help." HOBBES: "Well, you’ve done all you can do." Pamela A. Jones

Response:

Can anyone give me any tips on what kind of containers to use while applying beads to a piece of work.

I think everyone has a different preferred storage method.  However, when I am working with them, I use a tray from LoRan that has six large compartments with built in pouring spouts and each compartment has it’s own clear lid.  Along the two long sides of this "tray" are troughs for use in laying out beads when you are doing a row of different coloured beads.  (Anyone who has done earthdancer knows what I mean by this and this tray was wonderfully handy while I was doing her.  *grin*)  I paid $4 for it at my local cross stitch shop.   Susan H. Simko

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I use the lid of my Craft-Stor tote.  It has several raised lines to hold the beads in and the area is large enough to let them spread out.   Meg in Los Angeles

Response:

This is a good place to use those pretty small crystal or porcelein ash trays that most people are not using now for their intended purpose (of course, I am not one of those!).  Otherwise, any small lid – a 35mm film canister, a small plastic (Rubbermaid?) container, etc. – should work as long as it has a rim that is high enough to keep the beads from rolling out onto the floor.  HTH…Ellen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone give me any tips on what kind of containers to use while applying beads to a piece of work.

Response:

| I keep my beads in camera film containers.  When I’m beading, I put them | on the top lid of a plastic shoebox.  The higher sides keep the beads from | rolling off and I don’t have to put the beads away at night because I can | just sit the shoebox on the floor with the lid until morning. Great idea, Pamela, but you must either have a locked craft room or no small kids or pets!  Most of us couldn’t possible leave such things out overnight.   How do you mark the film containers, or are they the transparent type? — My opinions are my own; if IBM shares them, they haven’t told me.

Response:

Can anyone give me any tips on what kind of containers to use while applying beads to a piece of work.

I use little metal tart tins.  They are fluted for making *little* cakes actually.  My finger fits the flute and I am able to pull one bead at a time.  Also, the sides are high.  Similary and almost as good (except for the flutes) are little dishes for "on the side" foods, like soy sauce or salt cellars.  I find most of my gadgets either in the fishing or cooking sections. Keltia — "And the trouble is, if you don’t risk anything, you risk even more"                                 -Erica Jong

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Great idea, Pamela, but you must either have a locked craft room or no small kids or pets!  Most of us couldn’t possible leave such things out overnight. How do you mark the film containers, or are they the transparent type?

I (for the next 4 weeks) do live alone!  I mark the film containers with small white labels (1/2" x 3/4") which I also use the mark my homemake magnetic needleholder cards. Pamela

Response:

I lost the attribution of who wrote this comment.  Very sorry! applying beads to a piece of work.

Since my beading projects so far have been small (Mill Hill bead kits), I put the whole project in a small tin with handles (I got the tin at Michaels and it shows an old advertisement for Singer.  They had another tin with handles of Hershey’s kisses, but I wasn’t too fond of the picture).  Thus, I can tote around my project when I am not working on it and when I *am* working on it, I just put the beads I want to use in the lid.  If I were working on a larger project (i.e. MLI or TW), then I could always use the tin to carry stuff like floss, scissor, needles, etc. and just pop the whole thing in my project tote and I would still be able to use the lid.  Then again, I may come up with a different method for those…I don’t know yet! — Bekki Lyn Conqueror of 2,7,10,13,12,15,16,18 "Tangled threads seem a stronghold/But illusions can deceive."   +++Fates Warning: The Ivory Gate of Dreams+++ "All acts of love and pleasure are Her rituals."

Response:

This is a good place to use those pretty small crystal or porcelein ash trays that most people are not using now for their intended purpose (of course, I am not one of those!).  Otherwise, any small lid – a 35mm film canister, a small plastic (Rubbermaid?) container, etc. – should work as long as it has a rim that is high enough to keep the beads from rolling out onto the floor.  HTH…Ellen Can anyone give me any tips on what kind of containers to use while applying beads to a piece of work.

hi! coming out of lurkdom :0   i use a chrysanthenum <sp? tray that’s made for watercolours.  the porclain ones are nice, and i can put it into a padded carrying case, and carry my beading with me! happy beading, tree

Response:

To store them (the ones that come loose or in hanks), I use those stackable plastic containers (buyable in craft stores) OR mini ziplock bags OR my new "discovery": mini glass jam containers, you know, those that they serve in hotel breakfasts… While working, I tried the plastic multiple compartments container, but my preferred method is cream cheese plastic lids. Simone BeadNet http://www.mcs.net/~simone/beadnet.html

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I have just discovered the multiple drawer small tool containers in the computer store. Each drawer is clear see through. With optional clear dividers, you can put 3 separate hanks in related colors into the same drawer.. You can pull the drawer out completely (there is a safety catch so you won’t dump the beads unintentionally) and pour out loose beads. They come in 15 to 36 drawer sizes. This is the first time I have found something to be excited about for organizing beads. Until now, I was doing the jars/spice jars/ film containers/ screw top stacking containers without a good organizing solution. I found these drawers at Frye’s which is a computer discount store in California. Similar computer stores or electronic stores should carry these drawer sets where Frye’s do not exist.

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Something else good to keep beads in—I once bought a whole box of rubber-stoppered vacuum tubes from a scientific apparatus remainder company.   (The kind a clinic might use for biiiig blood samples—-about 6 or 7" long) They are clear and hold gobs and gobs of seed beads each.  (They also make a fun little "pop" when you first open them. 8 ^ ) I can’t remember exactly where I bought ‘em, but they were cheap or I wouldn’t have bothered, I’m sure…   I know there are several such odd-lot companies around. Monique in Bryan

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 Until now, I was doing the jars/spice jars/ film containers/ screw top stacking containers without a good organizing solution. I found these drawers at Frye’s which is a computer discount store in California. Similar computer stores or electronic stores should carry these drawer sets where Frye’s do not exist.

Don’t laugh I have been using my Dads empty Skoal cans.I put tape on the bottom and lid with the #.(wintergreen smells nice.I do wash them be for using.:-  Sheila

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Until now, I was doing the jars/spice jars/ film containers/ screw top stacking containers without a good organizing solution. I found these drawers at Frye’s which is a computer discount store in California. Similar computer stores or electronic stores should carry these drawer sets where Frye’s do not exist. Don’t laugh I have been using my Dads empty Skoal cans.I put tape on the bottom and lid with the #.(wintergreen smells nice.I do wash them be for using.:-  Sheila

My husband (also a stitcher) came home with some very cool clear plastic containers from the fishing department, perfect for beads. The are about 1-1/2 inch diameter and one screws onto the bottom of the other.  You can stack as many together as you want (each is about 1 inch tall).  When I want to use a certain bead,  I simply unscrew the container I want, and the rest remain closed!  I have taken small adhesive labels to put the bead numbers on each container.  They didn’t have any kind of brand name on them, so I can’t share that with you… but look in the tackle dept.  I think they are made for storing fishing flys!          ** Anne in Oregon                       ~ So many projects, so little time ~

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There’s a nice little system called the Bead Hive made out of little interlocking plastic drawers.  They get sold in sets of 12 for ~$10.  What is nice about them is that you can detach the drawers and just have the drawers filled with the beads you need for your project.  I’ve seen them in the CS&CC catalog and my favorite local needlework shop here in the Silicon Valley sells them too. Happy stitching, Cynthia

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I use the stacking screw top containers that screw on top of each other. The small ones are for the beads(I clip out the brand name and catalog number from the package as a label and slip it into the container with the beads), and there are slightly larger ones..I use these for my growing confetti collection.  These work fine for me…but will be kind of confusing as I start to stitch pieces calling for more similar beads. Mari

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My husband (also a stitcher) came home with some very cool clear plastic containers from the fishing department, perfect for beads. The are about 1-1/2 inch diameter and one screws onto the bottom of the other.  You can stack as many together as you want (each is about 1 inch tall).  When I want to use a certain bead,  I simply unscrew the container I want, and the rest remain closed!  I have taken small adhesive labels to put the bead numbers on each container.  They didn’t have any kind of brand name on them, so I can’t share that with you… but look in the tackle dept.  I think they are made for storing fishing flys!         ** Anne in Oregon                      ~ So many projects, so little time ~

I have found that our fly fishing shop has the best prices, by far, and better quality stackable containers (some bead shops have ones that don’t screw together very well after you get them apart).  Also, when I go to buy them, I get great service — usually I’m the only woman in the shop and all them men let me go first when ringing up the sale!  Chivalry lives! Karen

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Something else good to keep beads in—I once bought a whole box of rubber-stoppered vacuum tubes from a scientific apparatus remainder company. I can’t remember exactly where I bought ‘em, but they were cheap or I wouldn’t have bothered, I’m sure…  

    Monique, wasn’t that American Scientific?  With their really goof catalogues?  Martha Beth

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