Question:

Hello all, I did a search for past messages and didn’t find any help. Could anyone suggest a book(s) for info on flyfishing in Montana? It would be much appreciated. I live in E. Washington and am looking to make a few trips to into Montana this year. The books don’t have to be super-detailed–I’d prefer overviews to an entire book on just one river. However, if the book covered a "region" (like Yellowstone Park), that would be fine. I’m just looking for some basic info on times, hatches, accessability, etc. Thanks! -TyKo

Response:

Flyfisher’s guide to Montana by Greg Thomas is pretty good. The Montana Angling Guide by Fothergill and Sterling is also good. The former has a better narrative and information on lodging, dining, etc. The latter has better maps.  All my opinions, of course. John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I did a search for past messages and didn’t find any help. Could anyone suggest a book(s) for info on flyfishing in Montana? It would be much appreciated. I live in E. Washington and am looking to make a few trips to into Montana this year. The books don’t have to be super-detailed–I’d prefer overviews to an entire book on just one river. However, if the book covered a "region" (like Yellowstone Park), that would be fine. I’m just looking for some basic info on times, hatches, accessability, etc. Thanks! -TyKo

Response:

Flyfisher’s guide to Montana by Greg Thomas is pretty good. The Montana Angling Guide by Fothergill and Sterling is also good. The former has a better narrative and information on lodging, dining, etc. The latter has better maps.  All my opinions, of course.

I found the latter extremely helpful because of all the pullout maps, in a ring binder format  you can easily lay flat.

Response:

Question:

"Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

"Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it.

Too nice to snip, thanks George. At the risk of sounding maudlin, this describes to a T recent forays into the Blue Ridge with the NC boyos met on ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

"Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it.

It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek (TNG) where a race of beings that communicated only by referring to other events in the past tense. "How was your trip?" "Warren and Bruiser on the Beaverhead!" ("I fished with streamers hard all day, and as usual I got skunked.") "Miller and LaCourse on the Rapid River!" ("I ran into a friend of mine, but I didn’t recognize him at first because he wasn’t attached to a stimulator.  My girlfriend caught a bigger trout than me on her second ever fly fishing attempt.") "Zimbo and Waldo at Elk River!" ("I fished with a nice gentleman and caught some nice fish, but unfortunately my reel fell into the river.  Also, I left my waders wadded up in a ball in the trunk of my car, and they now smell like shit."  (respectively) )

Response:

….eight beats to the bar…… john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Old friends can wade a trout stream together or walk a woodland cover and not encounter just the fish or game of that day, but also the memories of other days and other places. They’ve taken the bitter with the better and found it all rewarding."     -Lee Wulff, Outdoor Life I stumbled across this today and thought others might enjoy it. It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek (TNG) where a race of beings that communicated only by referring to other events in the past tense. "How was your trip?" "Warren and Bruiser on the Beaverhead!" ("I fished with streamers hard all day, and as usual I got skunked.") "Miller and LaCourse on the Rapid River!" ("I ran into a friend of mine, but I didn’t recognize him at first because he wasn’t attached to a stimulator.  My girlfriend caught a bigger trout than me on her second ever fly fishing attempt.") "Zimbo and Waldo at Elk River!" ("I fished with a nice gentleman and caught some nice fish, but unfortunately my reel fell into the river.  Also, I left my waders wadded up in a ball in the trunk of my car, and they now smell like shit."  (respectively) )

Response:

Question:

Mike,   I think I was in Charlotte, coming from Miami heading for Dayton….no wait a minute I was in Miami. Anyhow, transferred in Charlotte and left for Dayton. Anyhow, when I left Miami, I could see my bags and rod case on the cart. The plane was full and my bags and rod case did not get loaded. they were left in Miami. My bags and rod case were on the turnstile when I got to Dayton. This causes a pain between my ears which I do not understand. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW

Um…Right now, I’d recommend doing absolutely nothing that gives very jumpy airport security crews reason to give one any "special attention". A member of my design team was virtually strip-searched yesterday in Denver while changing planes on his way to San Jose, apparently the unlucky winner of a random selection process… /daytripper (He decidedly did not enjoy the experience)

Response:

I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!

Perhaps it’s not wise to publicize even the possibility in a public forum, but there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.   JR

Response:

… there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.

I thought Waldo had his old waders carted off to a Superfund Site. — Ken Fortenberry- pray that bin Laden never gets his hands on Waldo’s waders

Response:

Several years ago my company was working on a project in Venezuela.  Fed-X subcontracts delivery.  It took two weeks for them to get a package there.  DHL was much better, however customs in Venezuela is always a crap shoot. Things do not understand drive them nuts.   Put the hooks/flys in checked baggage if you really want any chance of them being there with you.  Have a great trip. Chuck W. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Thanks anyway.

It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

Response:

I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks anyway. It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

Response:

I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

Best of luck both traveling and fishing! — Charlie…

Response:

I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!   Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim

Response:

Good idea, but the place I’m going to is really out of the way, and I’ve heard that stuff often doesn’t get there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense. Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

I’ve never lost any stuff on an international flight, either (probably because I carry on).  But, during my last trip to Venezuela, one of the folks at the camp didn’t get his stuff until the 7th day of a 9 day stay. He’d been going done there for 10 years, but shit is bound to happen. Thanks anyway.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale,

We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Post 9/11 I went from West Palm Beach-Houston-South padre Isl for red fish. As my guide was supplying the flies, I just took 2 travel rod in aluminum tubes, and my gear bag (sans flies and knives).  However, I was stopped at the x-ray machine and my 51/2" forceps were confiscated.  Luckily I had time to bring them to the check-in counter and they kept them until I got back. I think that the bottom line is that we are all at the mercy of the examiners and not the airlines.  What may be one guy’s interpretation of a weapon, may be another guy’s harmless nose hair picker.  I think that I’ll just check the flies in a non-descript bag and hope they arrive in Caracas with me. By the way, I’m going back to a Peacock bass camp on the banks of the Cinaruco River (about 300 miles south of Caracas).  Let me highly recommend this destination as a place to go if you want a lot of action with al very tough fish.  My first time there, last year in January, I met up with 3 other fly rodders and for 9 days we boated between 20 and 59 fish/each per day.  They averaged around 5#, and I was lucky to catch the biggest of the trip, a 10 and 12 pounded.  This is not the Lake Guri deal.  It is more rustic, the food is good-OK, drinks on the house, there are all three species of peacocks int he water, the biggest goes to around 16-17# (the only negative for those who want the bigger fish).  I normally go to the Caribbean for sight fishing, which I will continue to do, but the action here was so good that I had to do it again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks,

I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

Adam, let me ask exactly where you are going… I’ve had no problems heading south, but the last time was before 9-11. Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, or maybe one of the narwhale things that made the mermaid legends.  Which, considering what the mores of society have been in the none to recent past and present, doesn’t really surprise me that there might have been a sexual attraction. I AM surprised that there was no viable offspring. john You could always send a package to the guide a couple of weeks before. They generally have good connections in town.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

Question:

Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity.

Reflexive schooling response?

Response:

Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity. Reflexive schooling response?

Exactly.  Schooling is a behavior that has many rewards.  Thus, fish that school have survived to pass on the tendency to school. Trout are Darwinian.

Response:

I’ve seen spawners do that.  Lots of times there will be two males hanging around a female.  Of course I’ve only caught spawners by accident bruce h

Response:

J. Butler writes: I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows.

(snip)   Land locked salmon and brook trout display the same behavior.  My theory:  the trout on the hook emits a distress signal of some sort and the other trout are there to pick up anything regurgitated.  I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth. Dave

Response:

I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth.

Was in the local shop last week listening to the owner’s stories about bonefishing in Abacos.   His boat was in the midst of a large school of bones, and large sharks were beginning to enter the school and snap off hooked fish.   He claims (and this is fishing shop talk) that if he watched his hooked fish and a shark came near, he could give the fish enough line to swim normally, and the shark would swim past and search other prey. Joe F.

Response:

He claims (and this is fishing shop talk) that if he watched his hooked fish and a shark came near, he could give the fish enough line to swim normally, and the shark would swim past and search other prey.

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. –Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -J. Butler writes: I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows. (snip)   Land locked salmon and brook trout display the same behavior.  My theory:  the trout on the hook emits a distress signal of some sort and the other trout are there to pick up anything regurgitated.  I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth. Dave

Two years ago I was fishing the Thompson R. in N.W. Montana. While bringing in a small rainbow I had a bull trout (I assume) grab said fish and drop down to the stream bottom. Couldn’t budge him and he wouldnt let go. Eventually had to bust the 5x tippet. Have also seen smallmouth feed on minnows regurgitated by a hooked fish. G.Cleveland

Response:

Zimbo writes: I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch.

But, I have seen small fish follow the bigger hooked fish.  I had on a 20 inch brook trout and had 12 – 15 inch trout following its every move.  (????) Dave

Response:

George Cleveland writes: Two years ago I was fishing the Thompson R. in N.W. Montana. While bringing in a small rainbow I had a bull trout (I assume) grab said fish and drop down to the stream bottom. Couldn’t budge him and he wouldnt let go. Eventually had to bust the 5x tippet.

I got into a large bull trout on the East Fork of the South Fork of the Salmon River.  The guide got a "glimpse" of him as he raced by and went to the bottom of a fairly deep pool.  I too could not budge him and had to break the 5X FC . It is illegal to intentionally fish for the bull in Idaho.  It is a protected species.   I’ve caught Dolly Vardens on the Aleutians in Alaska, but they were’nt anywhere near as mean as the ones I saw in Idaho! Dave

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch.

No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

i believe the flee response of fish is often similar enough to a feeding response (especially for saltwater species)… also, i think some of it might be curiousity…. like wondering why the hooked fish is behaving so strangly… plus, often hooked fish will regurgitate food items… so a fish could be following picking off bits of food.  without being a fish it’s always gonna be guesses about the exact reason for their behavior. chris

Response:

 Has anyone else observed other fish accompanying a caught one?

I reckon they just see a mate in distress and attck him while he’s down. One less fish to have to fight about over food & sexual partners. But then that’s just what zoology drummed into me for years and years. They probably got it wrong. Ari Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

I’ve seen this more than once and put it down to this: Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity. It is unquestionably not top "help out" as fish do not have the brain capacity for altruism.  All their responses are evolved around, eat, avoid being eaten, and procreation. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too. I’ve seen this more than once and put it down to this: Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity.

Seems like a complete list to me. I can’t remember seeing this with trout. Maybe with stockers? It is more common with some other fishes. I’ve noticed it particularly with Smallmouth. The fish following generally appear VERY agitated. Smallmouth have a tendency to regurgitate when hooked.   It is unquestionably not top "help out" as fish do not have the brain capacity for altruism.   All their responses are evolved around, eat, avoid being eaten, and procreation.

There are a few others. For example, seeking a suitable temperature sometimes takes precedence over everything else. Willi

Response:

Could the fellows simply have accompanied the one they thought had found a meal and tried to chase the same source of food without seeing it?

That’s what my hypothesis is. This has happened to me numerous times. One time I had one hooked that got away, as soon as he swam off another took the hook. It was very cool to see. Was the trout you caught a rainbow? It seems to me RB’s exhibit this behaviour more than others. I might be mistaken though. Jim

Response:

I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows.  They did not follow just away from me, by towards me and in an arc the caught one swam.  Has anyone else observed other fish accompanying a caught one?  Does anyone have an hypothesis as to why other fish would accompany a caught one?  Could the accompanying fish been unaware the other had been caught and just exhibit schooling behavior?  Could the accompaning fish been aware their caught fellow was in distress and aiding it in some way?  Could the fellows simply have accompanied the one they thought had found a meal and tried to chase the same source of food without seeing it?  Did they simply respond to the caught one’s flight and accompany it away from danger?  Too bad I wasn’t fishing a dropper to pick up one of its mates!

Response:

Question:

the ROFF Maine Clave will be held there next September.

It’s *this* September, right? (don’t want to show up a year early<g) — Charlie…

Response:

writes: the ROFF Maine Clave will be held there next September. It’s *this* September, right? (don’t want to show up a year early<g) — Charlie…

Sorry, Charlie.  Yes, *this* September. D.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

: I think this describes what I am looking for to take my 12 year old for a few days : of FF’ing.  We are short-timers to the sport an decent fly tying students as well. : I am looking for a place either in northern NH or western Me. that is out of the : way but close or on some decent trout/salmon water.  Doesn’t have to be fancy (read : pricey) but just the basics to enjoy for a few days.  Please respond either : directly or to the group as others I’m sure have interest in such places.  If you : have a secret spot or two that I can impress my son with, email me privately and : I’ll be sworn to secrecy.  Thanks in advance.  Paul Neither the Libby camps or Bradfords camps are in Western Maine.  Both are in Northern Maine.  Quite a long drive from NH.  Other than that I expect you would enjoy either. — Isaac(Ike) B. Wilder That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Response:

Has anyone out there fished at Bradford Camps in Maine in the past few years ? If so, how was the experience (fishing, facilities, etc.) Thanks- RTW — Remove "zzz" from address if emailing direct.

Response:

You might reconsider and go to Libby’s.  I think the price is similar.  Go to www.libbycamps.com for more info.  And, no, I am not affiliated with Libby’s, although I do business with them in Maine and Labrador.  Matt and Ellen run a first class camp, with excellent cabins and 1st class food.  They even have remote cabins, strategically located on different ponds and rivers with all the amenities you would need — they are housekeeping — you fix your own meals. They are the ultimate "get away from it all" cabins. Dave LaCourse Hudson, MA

I think this describes what I am looking for to take my 12 year old for a few days of FF’ing.  We are short-timers to the sport an decent fly tying students as well. I am looking for a place either in northern NH or western Me. that is out of the way but close or on some decent trout/salmon water.  Doesn’t have to be fancy (read pricey) but just the basics to enjoy for a few days.  Please respond either directly or to the group as others I’m sure have interest in such places.  If you have a secret spot or two that I can impress my son with, email me privately and I’ll be sworn to secrecy.  Thanks in advance. Paul from Peterborough, NH

Response:

You might reconsider and go to Libby’s.  I think the price is similar.  Go to www.libbycamps.com for more info.  And, no, I am not affiliated with Libby’s, although I do business with them in Maine and Labrador.  Matt and Ellen run a first class camp, with excellent cabins and 1st class food.  They even have remote cabins, strategically located on different ponds and rivers with all the amenities you would need — they are housekeeping — you fix your own meals. They are the ultimate "get away from it all" cabins. Dave LaCourse Hudson, MA

I think this describes what I am looking for to take my 12 year old for a few days of FF’ing.  We are short-timers to the sport an decent fly tying students as well. I am looking for a place either in northern NH or western Me. that is out of the way but close or on some decent trout/salmon water.  Doesn’t have to be fancy (read pricey) but just the basics to enjoy for a few days.  Please respond either directly or to the group as others I’m sure have interest in such places.  If you have a secret spot or two that I can impress my son with, email me privately and I’ll be sworn to secrecy. Thanks in advance. Paul from Peterborough, NH

Response:

RWhite writes: Has anyone out there fished at Bradford Camps in Maine in the past few years ? If so, how was the experience (fishing, facilities, etc.) Thanks- RTW

I have fished the area while staying at Libby Camps.  Matt Libby can fly you into some remote ponds that don’t see many ffers.  I fished a pond with Bob Johnson, one of Libby’s long-time guides, and caught lots of 12 – 16 inch brookies, all on dries.  I know that Bradford Camps is "just around the corner" (so to speak) from Libby’s, but I’m not sure they have fly outs.  You can fish the area without them, but they do make for an easy way to see and fish the Allagash Wilderness.   You might reconsider and go to Libby’s.  I think the price is similar.  Go to www.libbycamps.com for more info.  And, no, I am not affiliated with Libby’s, although I do business with them in Maine and Labrador.  Matt and Ellen run a first class camp, with excellent cabins and 1st class food.  They even have remote cabins, strategically located on different ponds and rivers with all the amenities you would need — they are housekeeping — you fix your own meals. They are the ultimate "get away from it all" cabins. Dave LaCourse Hudson, MA

Response:

Paul writes:

(snip) If you have a secret spot or two that I can impress my son with, email me privately and I’ll be sworn to secrecy. Thanks in advance.

Paul, we’ve spoken before on this.  The Rapid River is a wonderful place for a dad/son team.  The food is wonderful, and the fishing the best.  See www.lakewoodcamps.com for more info.  I will be there the 1st, 2nd, and 4th weeks of June, and the ROFF Maine Clave will be held there next September. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Question:

Can anyone give me some tips about fishing the runoff. The rivers up here (Calgary, Alberta, Canada) are pretty murky and fast from the recent rains and snow melt.  I headed out to the Elbow River at the weekend but got nothing. Tried black/olive wooly buggers (to me they looked just like the rest of the debris floating by), GRHE’s and Blace Dace streamers. Not even a nibble. I tied some white and red crystal streamers tonight and may give them a go. I’m thinking that maybe something white will be more visible through the murk. Any and all advice gratefully recieved KB

Response:

In high murky river waters IMHO the best thing you cano do is keep moving and fish the margins.  The fish do not want to expend more energy than they can get from a meal.  The fast water causes them to expend too much energy so they snuggle up to obtructions – boulders, river bends, undercut banks, sand bars, downed logs.  They usually won’t move far so you have to practically hit them in the nose with the fly.  The good news is stealth is usually not an issue since their ability to perceive in murky water is limited.  I have found had some good success with large terrestrial insect patterns in high murky, summer water. Grasshoppers, beetles, bees, or imitations of large aquatics such as Royal Coachman, Humpies, Goddard Caddis and Elk Hair Caddis, fished dry, have produced some great days when the water seemed just too high, too fast, and too colored. As far as nymphs are concerned, high water dislodges tons of the suckers.  I believe the best patterns to use in these water conditions are suggestive of life, rather than exact imitations.  A furry Hare’s Ear, Beadhead Prince, and Weighted Stonefly are three of my favorites. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me some tips about fishing the runoff. The rivers up here (Calgary, Alberta, Canada) are pretty murky and fast from the recent rains and snow melt.  I headed out to the Elbow River at the weekend but got nothing. Tried black/olive wooly buggers (to me they looked just like the rest of the debris floating by), GRHE’s and Blace Dace streamers. Not even a nibble. I tied some white and red crystal streamers tonight and may give them a go. I’m thinking that maybe something white will be more visible through the murk. Any and all advice gratefully recieved KB

Response:

Question:

_______ I spent so much money today . . . buying the final Bastard Assembly Line Items, I don’t know how MUCH the Certified Check was for, but just the ink on it weighted 3 pounds.  (From what Gladys says)  The postage to send it Priority Mail cost her $22! I do know this.  Bastards are going to be worth every bit of $1800 – $2400 dollars right out of the starting blocks.  That I’m crazy enough to offer them for $300 as an introductory challenge to the world of fly fishing, does NOT mean I’m forced to hold these prices forever. Why don’t you guys move the conclave to here and help me build your fly rods? Today it is a steady, cold, spring rain.  My fax machine blew up.  Had to buy a new one.  Just now finished hooking it up. This was AFTER we mailed that BIG check. See your Grand American & Bastard Updates.  Order a reel with that Bastard Beauty that you have coming.  You only live once.  This is what a lot of you are doing. Visit: http://www.gink.com I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.

Response:

_______ I spe I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.

 George…you’re askin the wrong guy. I lose more damn balls than a schizoid squirel loses nuts. Hell, last time out I lost 18 damn balls in one round. I’d smack my tee shot and lose sight of the dang thing. After ’bout 4 hours of this crap I headed for the bar.  About 15 minutes later this guy walked in with his wife and gave me my damn 18 titleists back. He said, it’s proper golf ettiquette to remove the ball from the holes after you sink ‘em. Go figure. Waldo —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604       http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter to view our ongoing auctions at Ebay, click below… http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=blue…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _______ I spe I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.  George…you’re askin the wrong guy. I lose more damn balls than a schizoid squirel loses nuts. Hell, last time out I lost 18 damn balls in one round. I’d smack my tee shot and lose sight of the dang thing. After ’bout 4 hours of this crap I headed for the bar.  About 15 minutes later this guy walked in with his wife and gave me my damn 18 titleists back. He said, it’s proper golf ettiquette to remove the ball from the holes after you sink ‘em. Go figure. Waldo

Mr.  G.

Response:

Question:

I am based in Los Angeles but had heard about that awful attack on the couple hanging on the anchor line where the gentleman pushed his newly-wed wife outof the way, and he was taken himself off of Australia. Hi Jim As much as I would love to help you with information I would be unable to put you in touch with the lady in question.  The reasons being in the past twelve months she has re-married and also had her first child a month ago. I really think she now has her tramatic experience behind her and is trying to get on with things.

That was a very harrowing experience for her, and I can understand how she would want for it to be behind her. However, your friend can take comfort in knowing that her husband really loved her in doing what he did for her. I did a shark dive last year at Nassau, Bahamas with a lady by the name of Heather Boswell. Before Heather attempted to do a shark dive with me for the NBC WEEKEND TODAY show(which was televised throughout the USA on July 13th, 1997), Heather had been attacked by a five meter plus white shark while she was swimming on the ocean surface over a hundred miles offshore of Chile. Heather was swimming with some friends in calm seas off of a NOAA research vessel that they were crewing on. A friend was videotaping them all in the water(and captured the attack on video in the process)when a huge dorsal fin appeared(Heather later indicated that it looked to be at least a meter tall above the water as it approached her). The shark started attacking a gentleman who was sitting upon some type of surfboard. He managed to drive it away by apparently poking the shark in the eye. The shark then turned its attention to Heather who was nearby in the water. Rescuers were trying to reach Heather in an inflatable boat which was dispatched from the larger NOAA vessel. They actually had a hold of her before the shark started to attack Heather. However, because of the sunscreen lotion that Heather was wearing, she slipped through the arms of the one of the rescuers, and the shark grabbed her leg and started to take her down into the depths. It was at that point that Heather felt sure she was going to die according to what she told me and NBC. She just wasn’t sure if she should intake water to drown herself or simply let the shark continue to eat her and die that way. Amazingly, the shark returned Heather to the surface at which point the rescuers were able to grab her again. However, this time the rescuers were in a "tug-of-war" with the shark, and Heather was the "rope". Heather heard a "popping sound"(thinking that her leg was being dislocated)as she broke free. However, once inside the boat, Heather looked down and saw that her leg had been bitten off at mid-thigh(Heather lost a lot of blood and almost died via exsanguination/shock). Meanwhile, the shark must have been very hungry as it started to attack another lady who was desperately trying to pull herself out of the water (using netting which was thrown over the side of the NOAA vessel). However, the lady was overweight and was having a very difficult time getting herself out of the water. At that time, a high-powered rifle was finally deployed to drive the shark away. It is assumed that the shark was killed, but this is not known for sure. I am all for the conservation of shark species worldwide. However, the above situation was an obvious exception. Over a year after the above attack, Heather showed amazing courage by accepting an invitation to shark dive with me in the Bahamas for the NBC WEEKEND TODAY television program. However, once the sharks appeared on scene with us at Nassau, Heather requested to discontinue the dive(understandably so). Nonetheless, her courage for even attempting the dive and the positive attitude that she radiates in her daily life are inspiration to us all. Eco continues about diver(newly-wed couple)who was killed by a white shark off of Australia: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the US talkback shows contacted her some time back (they were doing a show on tragic widows) and offered to fly her over to appear but she clearly had no desire to go through the events again.  Understandably so. I do not have any clearer details of the attack except what I posted.  The attack happened at Byron Bay which is considered out of the usual territory of a white pointer (it was in warm water up north).  The attack was quick. They saw it on the bottom, her husband pushed her and by the time she managed to turn around she only felt the force of the sharks tail. I’ve forgotton the exact size but from what I can remember it was the max. for the species.  A fishing boat did later hook it, it was longer than the boat, and it dragged the boat for miles, it regurgitated some stomach contents and broke free. There was talk of it being a sick/rogue shark due to its location. I am most interested to see if such electronic shark repellent technology could have prevented the above attack. I was the first to test the SharkPOD in the USA(off the coast of Los Angeles for the Discovery Channel, "Next Step" television program which is to be broadcast internationally if it hasn’t been already-it has already been broadcast twice throughout the USA. Ron and Valerie Taylor were the first to test the SharkPOD in Australia. I had met them both in Singapore during the ADEC dive equipment trade show where the SharkPOD was first being released commercially. You’ve met Ron and Val Taylor !!!  Now they are shark lovers extraordinaire !!!!   That Val Taylor is one brave lady.  Amazingly dedicated couple.

Yes, I had met both of them and have been in touch with them via email from time to time. I am a fan of their work as well. For more detail on my SharkPOD testing, please access the Honolulu Star- Bulletin Newspaper article which I had appeared in throughout the Hawaiian Islands on December 22, 1997: http://starbulletin.com/97/12/22/features/index.html Sounds really exciting !   I remember seeing a show where they were investigating using  some sort of sonar "wall" instead of netting.   IE; transmitter placed and one point – receiver at other end further down the coastline to prevent sharks entering the swimming area.  They were testing the concept with some sort of sonar wand that repelled the sharks. It was tricky stuff as the shark had to get close enough for them to prod it with the want but it was trying to ascertain whether the idea would work.  Do you know of any developments with this??

Not really. But will look into it for you. I am all for anything that helps the sharks and other sea creatures.  Our shark nets over here are marine animal death traps.

Me too. Did you see my earlier post on how the shark netting program in South Africa was being reduced because of budget cuts to the Natal Sharks Board (which supervises the netting program there)? The Star-Bulletin article was mostly accurate. However, the SharkPOD is not a "sonic" device as the article mistakenly depicts in the opening paragraph. Instead, the SharkPOD emits a continuous, cocooning electrical field which is intended to protect from possible shark attack. I will soon be using another electronic shark repellent technology which is currently being developed in Australia(by another manufacturer)and is being billed as an even more effective electronic repellent than the SharkPOD. I will be using this Australian technology with tiger and grey reef sharks throughout the Hawaiian Islands. Also with tiger, bull and lemon sharks in the Bahamas. And with great white sharks off of Dyer Island, South Africa. Thank you for providing your information.  It was very interesting.  I have been lucky enough to encounter sharks while diving – something one doesn’t forget in a hurry !!

Agreed! Look forward to email exchanging with you again.

Response:

Ok, another story about shark attacks…this is getting so old!  Last time I heard, this was a FISHING newsgroup, one that as the name might imply is interested in how fish might be caught, NOT stupid humans being caught by the fish…and with sharks being chondricthes (as opposed to osteicthes–bony fish) I wonder if they officially qualify for discussion anyway.  You probably (if not, you need to) have read my opinion on the consequences of tomfoolery which results in such a mess; why the people don’t learn the first time is beyond me.   Unless you are suggesting in some lurid way that human chum is an acceptable fishing method, which I certainly would not advocate, I would like it if you could thin out the number of shark attack reports.  This is not a tabloid newsgroup.  Please help keep it that way. See also Re: Sharks, Re: Reduction in budget for… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am based in Los Angeles but had heard about that awful attack on the couple hanging on the anchor line where the gentleman pushed his newly-wed wife outof the way, and he was taken himself off of Australia. Hi Jim As much as I would love to help you with information I would be unable to put you in touch with the lady in question.  The reasons being in the past twelve months she has re-married and also had her first child a month ago. I really think she now has her tramatic experience behind her and is trying to get on with things. That was a very harrowing experience for her, and I can understand how she would want for it to be behind her. However, your friend can take comfort in knowing that her husband really loved her in doing what he did for her. I did a shark dive last year at Nassau, Bahamas with a lady by the name of Heather Boswell. Before Heather attempted to do a shark dive with me for the NBC WEEKEND TODAY show(which was televised throughout the USA on July 13th, 1997), Heather had been attacked by a five meter plus white shark while she was swimming on the ocean surface over a hundred miles offshore of Chile. Heather was swimming with some friends in calm seas off of a NOAA research vessel that they were crewing on. A friend was videotaping them all in the water(and captured the attack on video in the process)when a huge dorsal fin appeared(Heather later indicated that it looked to be at least a meter tall above the water as it approached her). The shark started attacking a gentleman who was sitting upon some type of surfboard. He managed to drive it away by apparently poking the shark in the eye. The shark then turned its attention to Heather who was nearby in the water. Rescuers were trying to reach Heather in an inflatable boat which was dispatched from the larger NOAA vessel. They actually had a hold of her before the shark started to attack Heather. However, because of the sunscreen lotion that Heather was wearing, she slipped through the arms of the one of the rescuers, and the shark grabbed her leg and started to take her down into the depths. It was at that point that Heather felt sure she was going to die according to what she told me and NBC. She just wasn’t sure if she should intake water to drown herself or simply let the shark continue to eat her and die that way. Amazingly, the shark returned Heather to the surface at which point the rescuers were able to grab her again. However, this time the rescuers were in a "tug-of-war" with the shark, and Heather was the "rope". Heather heard a "popping sound"(thinking that her leg was being dislocated)as she broke free. However, once inside the boat, Heather looked down and saw that her leg had been bitten off at mid-thigh(Heather lost a lot of blood and almost died via exsanguination/shock). Meanwhile, the shark must have been very hungry as it started to attack another lady who was desperately trying to pull herself out of the water (using netting which was thrown over the side of the NOAA vessel). However, the lady was overweight and was having a very difficult time getting herself out of the water. At that time, a high-powered rifle was finally deployed to drive the shark away. It is assumed that the shark was killed, but this is not known for sure. I am all for the conservation of shark species worldwide. However, the above situation was an obvious exception. Over a year after the above attack, Heather showed amazing courage by accepting an invitation to shark dive with me in the Bahamas for the NBC WEEKEND TODAY television program. However, once the sharks appeared on scene with us at Nassau, Heather requested to discontinue the dive(understandably so). Nonetheless, her courage for even attempting the dive and the positive attitude that she radiates in her daily life are inspiration to us all. Eco continues about diver(newly-wed couple)who was killed by a white shark off of Australia: One of the US talkback shows contacted her some time back (they were doing a show on tragic widows) and offered to fly her over to appear but she clearly had no desire to go through the events again.  Understandably so. I do not have any clearer details of the attack except what I posted.  The attack happened at Byron Bay which is considered out of the usual territory of a white pointer (it was in warm water up north).  The attack was quick. They saw it on the bottom, her husband pushed her and by the time she managed to turn around she only felt the force of the sharks tail. I’ve forgotton the exact size but from what I can remember it was the max. for the species.  A fishing boat did later hook it, it was longer than the boat, and it dragged the boat for miles, it regurgitated some stomach contents and broke free. There was talk of it being a sick/rogue shark due to its location. I am most interested to see if such electronic shark repellent technology could have prevented the above attack. I was the first to test the SharkPOD in the USA(off the coast of Los Angeles for the Discovery Channel, "Next Step" television program which is to be broadcast internationally if it hasn’t been already-it has already been broadcast twice throughout the USA. Ron and Valerie Taylor were the first to test the SharkPOD in Australia. I had met them both in Singapore during the ADEC dive equipment trade show where the SharkPOD was first being released commercially. You’ve met Ron and Val Taylor !!!  Now they are shark lovers extraordinaire !!!!   That Val Taylor is one brave lady.  Amazingly dedicated couple. Yes, I had met both of them and have been in touch with them via email from time to time. I am a fan of their work as well. For more detail on my SharkPOD testing, please access the Honolulu Star- Bulletin Newspaper article which I had appeared in throughout the Hawaiian Islands on December 22, 1997: http://starbulletin.com/97/12/22/features/index.html Sounds really exciting !   I remember seeing a show where they were investigating using  some sort of sonar "wall" instead of netting.   IE; transmitter placed and one point – receiver at other end further down the coastline to prevent sharks entering the swimming area.  They were testing the concept with some sort of sonar wand that repelled the sharks. It was tricky stuff as the shark had to get close enough for them to prod it with the want but it was trying to ascertain whether the idea would work.  Do you know of any developments with this?? Not really. But will look into it for you. I am all for anything that helps the sharks and other sea creatures.  Our shark nets over here are marine animal death traps. Me too. Did you see my earlier post on how the shark netting program in South Africa was being reduced because of budget cuts to the Natal Sharks Board (which supervises the netting program there)? The Star-Bulletin article was mostly accurate. However, the SharkPOD is not a "sonic" device as the article mistakenly depicts in the opening paragraph. Instead, the SharkPOD emits a continuous, cocooning electrical field which is intended to protect from possible shark attack. I will soon be using another electronic shark repellent technology which is currently being developed in Australia(by another manufacturer)and is being billed as an even more effective electronic repellent than the SharkPOD. I will be using this Australian technology with tiger and grey reef sharks throughout the Hawaiian Islands. Also with tiger, bull and lemon sharks in the Bahamas. And with great white sharks off of Dyer Island, South Africa. Thank you for providing your information.  It was very interesting.  I have been lucky enough to encounter sharks while diving – something one doesn’t forget in a hurry !! Agreed! Look forward to email exchanging with you again.

Response:

Question:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule.

You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

Response:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10!

Great! But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages.

Ummm, you need to check out Mountain Gear more often.  Two days from now, saturday the 16th, Mad River is having a demo days on the Spokane river in conjunction with Mountain Gear.  M.G. also bring a lot of kayaks. Additionally, M.G. makes a weekly trip to the river to demo their boats…it must be tough being an employee there.  Get their schedule. Call them if you want a particular boat brought for you to try.  We are less than an hour from you; how have you missed this?

Response:

Well, I got home from Stanley to see my new Jive 8-10 sitting in my shop. Haven’t paddled it, but it looks like a great boat for a big person.  Similar to the Hammer (and about as roomy), similar kind of forward rocker, but more balanced bow and stern volume.  Doesn’t look like a squirter, but I’ll take it out and get back to folks. Thanks for all the input– though I ended up doing what I did, reading about all the different boats helped.  Looks like the 8-10 will be good for other big folks, and we can start having the fun without the misery that smaller folks have been having in some of the cooler boats. DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week. Chuck You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

– Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project 1031 Spring Valley Rd. Troy, ID 83871 208-835-2999 (Voice and FAX) Call before sending FAX To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

Response:

<<DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week.  Chuck New boats, before you paddle them, are just like the next generation of computer operating systems:  they will solve ALL the problems with what you are using now.  That is, until you actually start using them. -Ray

Response:

    After fifteen years of  K-1 white-water paddling, I’ve gone over…..Gone over to the Dark Side.  To please the Lady, the Light and Love of my life (but…hey that’s another thread) I took an Orvis fly-fishing course this weekend. There I was… standing STILL in a river that I have paddled many times. I couldn’t help but think about my boating-self sliding by my new found fishing-self and how both of us felt. I (boating) have always tried to be silent and circumspect when passing anglers. Courtesy and etiquette (yet another thread?) seem to demand nothing less. Tis a lesson to be learned tho…. to walk a mile in another man’s uh….hip boots.  Fishing for trout is as incredible complex as learning linked cartwheels and mystery moves. And, I found out this weekend, as addictive. It came as a small revelation when our instructor informed us that trout can be spooked by the shadow of a fly-line passing overhead. Made me wonder what the shadow of a nine foot boat must do. I asked our instructor what he thought of  kayakers. I was expecting a diatribe but he turned to me and said, "Sure looks like fun…. and most of um try to be real quiet, too."  Maybe there is hope for us yet!

Response:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule. But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages. We floated Lolo Ck., a classic Class IV-V run, 18 miles, one hour from my house, last weekend.  There was only one other party on the river– another group of friends (gloat). Gotta do the enviro thing this weekend (keep those rivers running free with actual trees next to them), but hopefully, I’ll be up on that big ole Lochsa wave, 360-ing away next week!  Stay tuned. Chuck — Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

Response:

Question:

ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR A GOOD GUIDE FOR BONEFISH IN THE KEYS AROUND THE MARATHON AREA??  THANKS

Response:

Give a call to Capt. Geoff Colmes at 305-853-0741 or 305 451-8911.  This guy works hard and will get you onto fish.  Good luck! Clay

Response:

I’d suggest Captain Craig Brewer in Islamarado.  I fished with him a couple of times for bones and tarpon.  Excellent guide who really goes the extra mile to put you on the fish.  Don’t have Craig’s number handy but I’m sure he’s listed.  If you speak to him, please say hello from me and my fishing buddy Reed Guice. David Sheffield Los Angeles

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Captain Craig Brewer is a very capable guide but a jerk.  If you are not an accomplished caster, try someone else. He yelled at my 72-year-old father, a fly fisherman for 50 years,  for casting to 1:00 rather than 2:00 .Brewer ruined our outing.

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I would suggest u call Sandy Moret at Florida Keys Fly Fishing School in Islamorada. He can put u on a good guide. Tell him your experience level and type fish you want to try..  If this is ur first time in the salt I would suggest that u tell him u want to wade fish. Believe me it is much easier than fishing from a skiff the first time or two. U are not dependent on the guide getting the boat into a position for you. Also u are not going to be able to cast as far as u would like on the first trip. Above all practice ur double haul and practice in the wind. Good luck. Jack Schmitt Cumberland Transit Flyfishing Nashville, Tenn. A 30 Year veteran of the salt.

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Captain Craig Brewer is a very capable guide but a jerk.  If you are not an accomplished caster, try someone else. He yelled at my 72-year-old father, a fly fisherman for 50 years,  for casting to 1:00 rather than 2:00 .Brewer ruined our outing.

With so many good guides in the Keys, there is just no good reason to fish with a horses ass. Try Bill Massey out of Islamorada.  I fished with him the day before that hurricane hit Fla. in early June.  He put me on several tarpon, but we couldn’t connect.  When it became clear we couldn’t fish any of his best spots because of the high waves, wind and rain, he suggested that the best bet might be to face reality and call it a day after 3 hours.  We settled on a reasonable fee.  I appreciated not having a guide drive me around on a boat or have me cast to barren water all day just to make a buck.

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Good words aboout Massey…he knows you’ll come back.. And he does put you on fish..Don’t anyone tell him this is on here….don’t want his head to swell

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