Question:

A friend is leaving our fishing committee after a number of years. We would like to mark the occasion with a gift. In some ways it is easy you can always find use for a cape, a reel, a fly box, a line, the list is endless… Perhaps a good strong fly box that could take a small inscription would be a permanent reminder, does anyone have any suggestions? — Ellis Morgan

Response:

A friend is leaving our fishing committee after a number of years. We would like to mark the occasion with a gift. In some ways it is easy you can always find use for a cape, a reel, a fly box, a line, the list is endless… Perhaps a good strong fly box that could take a small inscription would be a permanent reminder, does anyone have any suggestions? — Ellis Morgan

I’ve seen Wheatly fly boxes that people have engraved. Paul

Response:

I’ve used a UK company which specialises in fishing gifts: http://www.justfish.co.uk I’ve had resin fish for the wall, cards and fishing related ornaments etc.  The catalogue is pretty good, in fact I think they sent out a Xmas one recently – might be worth requesting one ?

Response:

In reference to my previous post for justfish.co.uk, the resin fish sculptures are quite nice – they are not very big mind.  I ordered one last year for the wall – only 12 x 8 inches – under

Question:

Screw up good fly fishing.  Nothing worse in the outdoors than a FurWrap that can’t clean fish, dig worms or who can’t make a camp fire, cut or haul wood or who runs out of matches and then doesn’t know how to rub two sticks together, OR who doesn’t make a good pot of coffee.  A well trained FurWrap will deliver a cold bottle of beer streamside and not talk and drown out the sound of singing birds, but there is nothing worse if she doesn’t have a nice mixed drink to hand you when you arrive from a great day of fly fishing before she helps pull off your waders, hangs them up, runs your bath, gets in and soaps you down and later serves you a filet mignon, medium rare. Other than that, they don’t have many more uses or distractions worthy enough to bring them along unless they happen to be a good cribbage player. So tell us Frank?  Why? oh why, oh why this one? George Gehrke "shut up honey and deal"

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<snipped a bunch of misogyny George Gehrke "shut up honey and deal"

George, If you’re still in Rochester you may want to stay there – indefinately. Your post may have been brought to the attention of the wife of a certain retired rod designer who lives not that far from you, and it may not be healthy for you to return home.  8) Bob Weinberger

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Question:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day? My fishing buddy, Rat, caught more fish on Good Friday than he had ever caught in his life. The rest of the summer, he was notably behind the curve. Even God is in on this. It is all superstition. Absolutely no science or method to it at all… — Citizen Fisherman I’m kinda spooked; I think I may have said too much already… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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George Adams writes: FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator.

Shhhhhhhhh! Dave

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what color closed cell foam?

On the original (olive) pattern, I use white or yellow. On the modified (tan) pattern, I use yellow or orange. They seem to be most successful in sizes #18 -#22. I have done well with this pattern tied on scud type (curved) hooks and conventional wet fly hooks. There are a number of midge pups patterns, Serendipity for example, that incorporate a bouyant (deer hair or foam) collar so , at least in theory, the fly rides upright in the water. FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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 It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc.

Interesting point. On a local freestone stream, most folks hit the pools in the fall with PT nymphs, or midge/bwo dry patterns.  I was down in a spot with a couple of small pools and pocket water.  In the small pools I  was noticing every once in a while a leaf would hit the water and bang! it would get hit.  I watched it a couple of times, figuring out that there was a terrestrial hanging on the falling leaf that was getting hit.  I didn’t find out *what*, though . In addition, there were a lot of yellow jackets around.  In talking with some folks who fished succesfully in that stretch, they were using bee patterns very successfully, even though it was past the traditional time for terrestrials. On the leaves, it could have been some left over ants or something hanging on…don’t know for sure.  But of course, I was geared up with 20 and 22 BWO’s and BHPT’s which were being ignored. Similar observations and results with another angler upstream a bit.  I didn’t have any terrestrial patterns with me, though, or I would have tried them. Rob

Response:

what color closed cell foam? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

Response:

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  

Oh, well, yeah, you’re right then:  that’s just beggin’ for a skunkin’. When I would do that (for steelheading, it usually meant leaving one or another of the rods or lines at home, assuming I’d never, ever need it, not today), the invariable result was regret. Good luck on the Credit today.  BTW, how’s that thesis coming? JR

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  The results are often not that good until I start paying attention to what the conditions are telling me.   I’ll be leaving for the Credit soon and this time I’ll be taking a good look at the water before I decide what to do. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

Response:

Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.

Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-)

And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

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Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day?

No, I’ve never noticed that. — Check out the ROFF Calendar at: http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/calendar/calendar.html

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willi, I agree with you–it is fun just to try new methods and tools.  I never catch many fish but enjoy spending a little time reading then going out ant trying a new technique. still no success with streamers or upstream casting of nymphs- but then perhaps the fish had not read the same article. Had great fun in Oct. when Big Dale and I shared cabin on small N.C. stream.[ see below I hit wrong button] first time I got a chance to fish same stream for four days with similar weather conditions. Tried dries, nymphs and streamers  for a day each   all with  minor success.  The fourth morning I walked down to the creek, cast three times and caught three fish–then not another in two hours. Some days are more fun than others.      Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C. some days are more fun than others.

Response:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it.

It always helps to do some basic planning, and research/ reconnaissance, before hitting the water, just to know what’s there, so you can make an educated guess as to what’s possible, what’s likely, and what else _might_work if your originally-intended method seems to be "off."  It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc. This is one reason why (a disappointingly decreasing percentage, I’d offer) some anglers take a few basic tying supplies with them (certainly on overnight or longer trips), even on all-day trips.  You don’t need a lot of stuff – a water-tight "flip-top" eyeglass or cigarette box will hold a sufficiency – but of course, some at-home freehand tying practice is important unless you want to lug a vise (I don’t, but a "multi-purpose" tool and stout rubber band will do in a pinch, as will a pin vise).  It also helps to be ready to use whatever is at hand as a material.  In fact, some notable "modification" patterns are reported to have originated with less-than-orthodox materials adapted "spur of the moment."  If you do use any less-than-orthodox material, depending on source, or even traditional material long-stored in fishing clothing, I’d advise attempting to remove as much "human scent" as possible – for example, if you use some pocket lint for dubbing, rub it in some natural material, dirt/mud (if it’s not on the reddish side), loam, etc. and rinse in the fishing water.  I can’t say for sure as to whether the fish can tell, but I do think that it’s better safe than sorry.

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Peter Charles wrote…. and why over-planning can lead to a skunking.

Not over planning just stubborness.   You want to do it the way you want and you forget why you’re there. Your way or no way.  A little flexibility and your accumulated knowledge and your back to catching fish. There’s no explaining a skunking. There’s no reason or logic when others are catching and you’re not. Unless you’re totally inept.  It’s just chance. Fate. What brings you back next time. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

I’m getting into this discussion a little late…  In waters that I know, it is always fun to experiment with something new.  During the off-season (now), I will tie new patterns that I *know* will work.  Call it intuition.  Most times they *do*  work.   Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.  I *knew* it would work at a certain spot on a certain river.  My first short cast with it brought up a beautiful brookie. Another example, Peter, is those Clousers you tied in September.  When I saw them I knew they would work – and they did.  <g I’ve never been skunked on that river – came close a few times, however. That is when I stop my "normal" attack and use something different, something that I *know* they will like.  We’ve heard it said that trout are like women:  find out what they want and give it to them.  The finding out part can be very difficult, especially on waters unfamiliar to you.   Dave

Response:

Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).

Well, that was my first thought. You’re right about fishing waters you know well. Knowing them well and the comfort that gives, is one of their pleasures. On my home river, there are a number of small areas I know that fish use as feeding stations that are almost always ignored by other anglers. They are in nondiscript water that I found from watching the fish during low water conditions or dimpling during a hatch. On the other hand, new waters are exciting; from figuring out where and how to fish, to just being in a new beautiful place. Willi

Response:

Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).   For the other point, I once fished the Tulpehocken during a decent caddis emergence. I, and several others patiently tried adults, pupa and the like, to little effect. Some fella rolls through with a chartreuse Glo-bug and has browns of 18 inches or so chasing the thing. He landed 4 from the pool I was fishing and moved on…                                Tom L

Response:

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

I agree – you know X will catch fish so you try Y just for shits & giggles.  Done it many times.  That’s for waters you know well, however my sins extend to waters that I know squat about.  It’s just a matter of not bringing too many preconceived notions to the water. You can’t hear what the water is telling you over the cacophony of your plans. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

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Question:

I plan to fly fish Sunday from sun-up to sun-down on a western Washington river. The hunt is for pink salmon. Has anyone had much success on the Skykomish river this past week? I was on it three times last week and saw a LOT of fish jumping/rolling/striking on the surface. However, they were on the far bank and I was unable to reach them. The report that I heard yesterday indicated there are a ton of pink salmon in the rivers right now. The second destination is the Stillaquamish river, west of I-5. I understand that’s supposed to be a good spot for salmon as well. I hope the visibility is up this weekend. Thanks for any input, Ryan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan to fly fish Sunday from sun-up to sun-down on a western Washington river. The hunt is for pink salmon. Has anyone had much success on the Skykomish river this past week? I was on it three times last week and saw a LOT of fish jumping/rolling/striking on the surface. However, they were on the far bank and I was unable to reach them. The report that I heard yesterday indicated there are a ton of pink salmon in the rivers right now. The second destination is the Stillaquamish river, west of I-5. I understand that’s supposed to be a good spot for salmon as well. I hope the visibility is up this weekend. Thanks for any input, Ryan

I just read a report that a guy and his partner caught 40 humpies in 4 hours last night on the lower Stilly. The fish are there. I’d be willing to bet that the lower Sky is pretty much the same. Darin

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Yeah, they’re there alright… I fished the Skykomish for a couple hours this weekend. Saw more fish than I’ve ever seen in my life. Didn’t get one hit. They must be thinking about getting a little instead of thinking about food.

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Its been a good for hatchery returns pretty much accross the board (Coho and Dog and Humpies). I unerstan the limit on steelhead hatchery returns to the grand Ronde was raised to 3. Dave

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OK, again I can’t keep my mouth (fingers?) shut.  I’ve been to the Stilly near I-5 three times in the last week, and in a word, it’s AWSOME.  The first day I stayed about an hour and a half, released a couple fish and took home 4 pinks.  All were bright and tasty.  The second day I took my son Andy with me and we spent a little longer, released more fish, and brought home 6.   Today I took Andy and a friend and it was better.  There were more fish and bigger fish.  Andy had a killer pattern that got him agressive strikes on 10 successive casts while I was next to him and hooked one fish per 20 casts.  Here’s a pattern for his fly: Hook:  TMC105 #4 (straight eye egg hook, heavy and short) Thread:  Hot pink. Eyes:  Small red Clouser style Tail:  Fuscia (pink) marabou, not too thick about 1.5 times the length of the body. Body:  Pink sparkle chenile We here in a pool below an island, and the fish were stacked up at the line between the two flows.  Others with non-pink flies and hardware were not catching nearly as many fish as I was, let alone the amazing catch Andy had.  My fly was the same as his, but without the eyes.  The strikes I got were gentle, not the attacks Andy was getting. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan to fly fish Sunday from sun-up to sun-down on a western Washington river. The hunt is for pink salmon. Has anyone had much success on the Skykomish river this past week? I was on it three times last week and saw a LOT of fish jumping/rolling/striking on the surface. However, they were on the far bank and I was unable to reach them. The report that I heard yesterday indicated there are a ton of pink salmon in the rivers right now. The second destination is the Stillaquamish river, west of I-5. I understand that’s supposed to be a good spot for salmon as well. I hope the visibility is up this weekend. Thanks for any input, Ryan

Response:

I unerstan the limit on steelhead hatchery returns to the grand Ronde was raised to 3.

Hey, Dave, do you know if they’re basing that on fish counts over the dams, or are the temps in the Ronde already low enough to be bringing enough fish in to give them a good idea of returns on the Ronde? Reason I ask is that I’ve got a two week plus trip starting next Sunday, heading up to see my folks and my brother up in Tacoma (driving from Nevada City, California). In addition to seeing an M’s game in this historic season, eating some good sushi for a change, and hitting some old favorite watering holes, I’m going to be doing a helluva lot of fishing. I’m going to start with a couple days on the Klamath on the way up, maybe hitting the Kalama for an afternoon before arriving in Tacoma the night before my M’s game, but on the way back I want to spend serious time on the Deschutes and, if it’s happening, the Ronde (with, of course, a day or so on either the upper Sac, the McCloud, or the Klamath on the way back). Too much damn water between California and Washington! Every time I do this trip, I spend two months thinking about which rivers I want to hit! Tight lines and two more seasons with Edgar, – Sid

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Question:

Well, it’s been a couple weeks since the idea lit up, caught fire briefly and fizzled, so I thought I’d try posting a reminder. For you newbies: I am compiling a directory of ROFF members, initially to allow ROFF members travelling to another state to maybe look up a fellow member to share some local knowledge, some time on a stream or a cold beer together.   To participate, send me your screen name and state.   Other info, such as you real name, home city, age, home waters, occupation, etc. is optional (most so far have shared most of these).   You can surrender as little anonymity as you are comfortable with.   None of this info will be shared by me outside this group or with commercial concerns. For the "experienced" ROFFians: Awright goddammit, where the hell are ya?   A lousy 50 names in three weeks? What about the rest of ya?   You know who you are!   Seriously though, I am hoping some of the discussions about file size, databases or other esoteric computer shit didn’t put anybody off (responses dropped like a stone shortly after that).   I’d like to see this grow to a potentially useful tool for everybody.   If you post regularly or even occasionally, send me your info (see above). Joe F.

Response:

Ok Joe, Didn’t see the last thread, musta been fishn’ or drinkn’ or sleeping as far as I know? Tim Apple Rockford IL Good smallmouth and some trout(top secret on the trout thing, about 5 people in the world know where they are.) Also finally figured out how to get walleye on the fly, good fishing for em’ to. I’d give you my address but I’m going in the Coast Guard soon and it wouldn’t do ya much good unless you cruise by in the next 2 months or so. see ya Tim Apple — "Bamboo is Better"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it’s been a couple weeks since the idea lit up, caught fire briefly and fizzled, so I thought I’d try posting a reminder. For you newbies: I am compiling a directory of ROFF members, initially to allow ROFF members travelling to another state to maybe look up a fellow member to share some local knowledge, some time on a stream or a cold beer together.   To participate, send me your screen name and state.   Other info, such as you real name, home city, age, home waters, occupation, etc. is optional (most so far have shared most of these).   You can surrender as little anonymity as you are comfortable with.   None of this info will be shared by me outside this group or with commercial concerns. For the "experienced" ROFFians: Awright goddammit, where the hell are ya?   A lousy 50 names in three weeks? What about the rest of ya?   You know who you are!   Seriously though, I am hoping some of the discussions about file size, databases or other esoteric computer shit didn’t put anybody off (responses dropped like a stone shortly after that).   I’d like to see this grow to a potentially useful tool for everybody.   If you post regularly or even occasionally, send me your info (see above). Joe F.

Response:

Question:

Bob: <<I’ve been flyfishing a small gravel pond lake for bass and walleyes for a couple of years now. Everyday is different. Somedays, the largemouths are eager eaters, other days they won’t take anything. One technique I’ve been using with alot of success is to get into a rowboat and let the wind drift me across the lake…fly on a sinking line trolling at the wind’s speed. Surprisingly, alot of bass take the fly. Yesterday at sun’s zenith, I stopped my drift and anchored in a spot where I thought some fat perch or walleyes might be hanging out. I cast the fast sink line with a red and brown glass-bead streamer about seventy feet out and let it sink to the bottom. A few quick jigs, and the old lady of the lake, the one I had heard about, ate. She took line and bent the 6 wgt. GLoomis so the tip was touching the water. She was old and she was beautiful. Bob E. George? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Dave, No George anywhere near here. Just Bob, bobbing around Gravel Ponds Lake near Rochester, NY. Bob E.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob: <<I’ve been flyfishing a small gravel pond lake for bass and walleyes for a couple of years now. Everyday is different. Somedays, the largemouths are eager eaters, other days they won’t take anything. One technique I’ve been using with alot of success is to get into a rowboat and let the wind drift me across the lake…fly on a sinking line trolling at the wind’s speed. Surprisingly, alot of bass take the fly. Yesterday at sun’s zenith, I stopped my drift and anchored in a spot where I thought some fat perch or walleyes might be hanging out. I cast the fast sink line with a red and brown glass-bead streamer about seventy feet out and let it sink to the bottom. A few quick jigs, and the old lady of the lake, the one I had heard about, ate. She took line and bent the 6 wgt. GLoomis so the tip was touching the water. She was old and she was beautiful. Bob E. George? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Bob: <<No George anywhere near here. Just Bob, bobbing around Gravel Ponds Lake near Rochester, NY. Ahhhh, Rochester, NY.  Home of J.W. Dundee’s Honey Brown and other fine elixirs.  Not too far away from where Sleeman’s is brewed.   Dave L.

Response:

Dave, So many brews around here it makes the mind boggle. Bob E.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob: <<No George anywhere near here. Just Bob, bobbing around Gravel Ponds Lake near Rochester, NY. Ahhhh, Rochester, NY.  Home of J.W. Dundee’s Honey Brown and other fine elixirs.  Not too far away from where Sleeman’s is brewed. Dave L.

Response:

Speaking of Dundee’s Honey Brown: Though it’s a mere lager, it’s a damned tasty one, and I confess that I’ve developed quite a jag for that stuff. And frankly speaking (Peter: avert thine eyes) prefer it to both of the Sleeman’s brews that – while very pleasant indeed and very much appreciated – lack the punch of the Dundee’s… There. I said it. I’ve been holding that back for weeks, but now it’s out there. /daytripper (sipping a Honey Brown even as I type this ;^)

        confession, tripper, is good for the soul.         wayno

Response:

Ahhhh, Rochester, NY.  Home of J.W. Dundee’s Honey Brown and other fine elixirs.  Not too far away from where Sleeman’s is brewed.

Speaking of Dundee’s Honey Brown: Though it’s a mere lager, it’s a damned tasty one, and I confess that I’ve developed quite a jag for that stuff. And frankly speaking (Peter: avert thine eyes) prefer it to both of the Sleeman’s brews that – while very pleasant indeed and very much appreciated – lack the punch of the Dundee’s… There. I said it. I’ve been holding that back for weeks, but now it’s out there. /daytripper (sipping a Honey Brown even as I type this ;^)

Response:

You are fortunate indeed, Tripper, that Peter is on holiday.  But there are other Sleeman’s afficianados around here to whom you will have to answer on judgment day, which will come sooner than you might think. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And frankly speaking (Peter: avert thine eyes) prefer it to both of the Sleeman’s brews that – while very pleasant indeed and very much appreciated – lack the punch of the Dundee’s… There. I said it. I’ve been holding that back for weeks, but now it’s out there. /daytripper (sipping a Honey Brown even as I type this ;^)

Response:

You are fortunate indeed, Tripper, that Peter is on holiday.  But there are other Sleeman’s afficianados around here to whom you will have to answer on judgment day, which will come sooner than you might think.

Yup, I reckon that I’ll have drawn the wrath of many sudsy souls hereabouts. Wouldn’t be the first time (and prolly won’t be the last ;^) As American politics points out repeatedly, the majority is often more wrong than right… Still…Dundee’s is an excellent substitute for the even hardier brews that I favor but that require a trip to the local pub to obtain. So I tip my second Honey Brown to you reprobates that drink beer from clear glass bottles. You know not what you do… /daytripper (hic!)

Response:

confession, tripper, is good for the soul. wayno

And beer is good for the kidneys ! But not if you hold it back for weeks ! I can not eat but little meat, my stomach is not good, but sure I think that I can drink, as much as any would, Let the back and the sides go bare me boys, let the hands and the feet grow cold, but give to the belly good ale enough, whether it be new or old ! TL MC

Response:

Mark Faulkner writes:

<<You are fortunate indeed, Tripper, that Peter is on holiday.  But there are other Sleeman’s afficianados around here to whom you will have to answer on judgment day, which will come sooner than you might think. Mark Faulkner Peter is on holiday and will spend the evening of the 6th with Jo and me.  I *know* he wouldn’t show up without any Sleeman’s, but whether or not I can make it to the fall ball with it is quite another thing.  Oh, yeah, I forgot.  I found *three* of the little devils in the fridge today.  Musta forgot about ‘em. There be only one left.  Come on August 6th……. You want I should bring some Dundee’s HBs to NC in October? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Well, you guys are making me homesick.  I was born in Rochester and grew up in Webster, Warsaw, Corning, Hornell and finally in Penn Yan, NY on Keuka Lake. For the past nineteen years I’ve been in the Navy, and recently my flies have been seeking fish in the warm tidal rivers, creeks and lakes of Hampton Roads, Virginia where we catch some real nice large mouth bass, Perch, Bluegills and such.  All great fun, but still not the same as our more Northern aquatic friends.  Anyhow, it’s good to hear the stories from back home, I’ll be back there in another year or so.  Take care all, and good fishing! Butch

Response:

Not so bad in my book, snagger.  Those bass can be outstanding on a fly rod, and the bluegills and perch are tasty indeed. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, you guys are making me homesick.  I was born in Rochester and grew up in Webster, Warsaw, Corning, Hornell and finally in Penn Yan, NY on Keuka Lake. For the past nineteen years I’ve been in the Navy, and recently my flies have been seeking fish in the warm tidal rivers, creeks and lakes of Hampton Roads, Virginia where we catch some real nice large mouth bass, Perch, Bluegills and such.  All great fun, but still not the same as our more Northern aquatic friends.  Anyhow, it’s good to hear the stories from back home, I’ll be back there in another year or so.  Take care all, and good fishing! Butch

Response:

Butch writes:

<<Well, you guys are making me homesick.  I was born in Rochester and grew up in Webster, Warsaw, Corning, Hornell and finally in Penn Yan, NY on Keuka Lake. For the past nineteen years I’ve been in the Navy, and recently my flies have been seeking fish in the warm tidal rivers, creeks and lakes of Hampton Roads, Virginia where we catch some real nice large mouth bass, Perch, Bluegills and such.  All great fun, but still not the same as our more Northern aquatic friends.  Anyhow, it’s good to hear the stories from back home, I’ll be back there in another year or so.  Take care all, and good fishing! Welcome aboard, DeepSnag.  I retired from  Mother Nav in 1975.  There are other retirees in ROFF, and Tom Brown, a regular ROFF poster, has a son on USS Nicholas FFG47.  You’re with family.  ’Course, we got lots of no-account lawyers and folks with "edu" in their address, but as a whole, they’re pretty neat. They’re worth going fishing with, anyway.  Let’s hear more from you. Dave LaCourse, USN (Ret)

Response:

Well, you guys are making me homesick.  I was born in Rochester and grew up in Webster, Warsaw, Corning, Hornell and finally in Penn Yan, NY on Keuka Lake. For the past nineteen years I’ve been in the Navy, and recently my flies have been seeking fish in the warm tidal rivers, creeks and lakes of Hampton Roads, Virginia where we catch some real nice large mouth bass, Perch, Bluegills and such.  All great fun, but still not the same as our more Northern aquatic friends.  Anyhow, it’s good to hear the stories from back home, I’ll be back there in another year or so.  Take care all, and good fishing! Butch

Congratulations DeepSnag for sticking it out with the USN. I still remember the anticipation of counting down the years, months and days till retirement. Nothing like it. Best decision I ever made. Don’t know about you but my 20 yrs went by really fast. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

Welcome aboard, DeepSnag.  I retired from  Mother Nav in 1975.  There are other retirees in ROFF, and Tom Brown, a regular ROFF poster, has a son on USS Nicholas FFG47.  You’re with family.  ’Course, we got lots of no-account lawyers and folks with "edu" in their address, but as a whole, they’re pretty neat. They’re worth going fishing with, anyway.  Let’s hear more from you. Dave LaCourse, USN (Ret)

I’ll have to put in a plug for my son here…Navy Chaplain serving aboard the USS Rainier out of Bremerton, WA. I’m proud of this guy and wish he was geographically closer. He has plans to stay…another 7 yrs to retirement. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

I’ve been flyfishing a small gravel pond lake for bass and walleyes for a couple of years now. Everyday is different. Somedays, the largemouths are eager eaters, other days they won’t take anything. One technique I’ve been using with alot of success is to get into a rowboat and let the wind drift me across the lake…fly on a sinking line trolling at the wind’s speed. Surprisingly, alot of bass take the fly. Yesterday at sun’s zenith, I stopped my drift and anchored in a spot where I thought some fat perch or walleyes might be hanging out. I cast the fast sink line with a red and brown glass-bead streamer about seventy feet out and let it sink to the bottom. A few quick jigs, and the old lady of the lake, the one I had heard about, ate. She took line and bent the 6 wgt. GLoomis so the tip was touching the water. She was old and she was beautiful. Bob E.

Response:

Frank Church writes:

<<I’ll have to put in a plug for my son here…Navy Chaplain serving aboard the USS Rainier out of Bremerton, WA. I’m proud of this guy and wish he was geographically closer. He has plans to stay…another 7 yrs to retirement. Hey, congratulations, Frank.  I can imagine how  very proud you are of him.  The Rainier is an oiler (AOE), so I bet he is at sea a lot.  Does he also FF? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Frank Church writes: <<I’ll have to put in a plug for my son here…Navy Chaplain serving aboard the USS Rainier out of Bremerton, WA. I’m proud of this guy and wish he was geographically closer. He has plans to stay…another 7 yrs to retirement. Hey, congratulations, Frank.  I can imagine how  very proud you are of him.  The Rainier is an oiler (AOE), so I bet he is at sea a lot.  Does he also FF? Dave LaCourse

his third or 4th one. The assignment he liked best was being attached to the USMC as unit chaplain at Camp Lejuene..he got out there and humped on the marches and hikes with the grunts. On his way (with family) to Naples (?) for 3 yrs in Jan.  His job will be to travel all over Europe, sort of a military circuit rider. Man, am I jealous! Afraid he doesn’t FF…his avocation and vocation take up all his time and right now he has no interest in fishing of any kind. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

[deleted] So I tip my second Honey Brown to you reprobates that drink beer from clear glass bottles. You know not what you do…

[deleted] Honey in beer ! Egads man…have you no taste ?!?!?! Honey belongs on peanut butter sandwiches, not in beer. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

[deleted] So I tip my second Honey Brown to you reprobates that drink beer from clear glass bottles. You know not what you do… Honey in beer ! Egads man…have you no taste ?!?!?! Honey belongs on peanut butter sandwiches, not in beer.

Ah, if you only had a clue, Tim… /daytripper (tonite, it’s Concord Pale Ale, fresh from the brewery. Yummy!)

Response:

Question:

I’ve got a question about trying again after the end of a 25-year marriage. (I’m a 54-year-old male dumpee).  Naturally, I plan to use the usual methods to try and find someone to share my life with, but in this day of the internet, I thought I might try something additional, and I wanted to find out what y’all thought. I have no desire to "put on a front".  I think it would be only fair to let a possible partner find out all necessary information about me, with a minimum of effort or embarrassment for all concerned. So my idea was to set up a web page, with my personal details, and if I meet someone who seems to have possibilities, direct them to the site, so they can find out all relevant information.  This way, if I’m not the type they are looking for, it would save time for all concerned. Now the idea of the web page is not to attract possible partners, as I would have no desire or expectation that a random ’surfer’ would happen upon it. The idea again is to point someone I have already met to look at the page. While surfing, I found that I apparently was not the first to come up with this idea, as I have seen pages that seem to be of this type, so the question is: Is this a good idea? Now, after the reception of my "A mountain out of molehill" post, I suppose it might be a good idea to leave out that minor detail, and fill in a possible candidate when the time seems ripe, but other that that, do you think that the idea of a web page is ridiculous , or does it have merit. Any ideas are welcome. Thank you, Simcha Gomez  (a pseudonym)

Response:

Personally I think that life has gotten all too impersonal. It is entirely up to you how you feel about trying something like that. But true Love if there really is such a thing I am not sure you will find it that way. You may find a lot of Golddiggers if you aren’t careful, And careful is what you want to be on the internet. Can’t you go to local coffee shops or take up a new hobby and try to meet people that way? I am certainly not going to recommend a Bar or club. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a question about trying again after the end of a 25-year marriage. (I’m a 54-year-old male dumpee).  Naturally, I plan to use the usual methods to try and find someone to share my life with, but in this day of the internet, I thought I might try something additional, and I wanted to find out what y’all thought. I have no desire to "put on a front".  I think it would be only fair to let a possible partner find out all necessary information about me, with a minimum of effort or embarrassment for all concerned. So my idea was to set up a web page, with my personal details, and if I meet someone who seems to have possibilities, direct them to the site, so they can find out all relevant information.  This way, if I’m not the type they are looking for, it would save time for all concerned. Now the idea of the web page is not to attract possible partners, as I would have no desire or expectation that a random ’surfer’ would happen upon it. The idea again is to point someone I have already met to look at the page. While surfing, I found that I apparently was not the first to come up with this idea, as I have seen pages that seem to be of this type, so the question is: Is this a good idea? Now, after the reception of my "A mountain out of molehill" post, I suppose it might be a good idea to leave out that minor detail, and fill in a possible candidate when the time seems ripe, but other that that, do you think that the idea of a web page is ridiculous , or does it have merit. Any ideas are welcome. Thank you, Simcha Gomez  (a pseudonym)

Response:

Yes, I think that would be a good idea, although I would be kind of leary .  I suppose if you write back and forth for a long time and send pictures it would be o.k.   Maybe the web page would give some credibility to you also, for people would be aware of what you like to do for hobbies and pictures of your family would make that person comfortable in writing you.    Oh sure go do it! )

I think it seems like a good idea, too.  But then, I’m a guy, so what do I know about what women want. It just seems like a really thorough personals ad to me.  Instead of "DWM who likes fly-fishing and Harleys seeking beautiful woman with similar interests" he could add his URL.  This way they would be able to find out that he likes fly-fishing in central Oregon and restoring antique Harley engines, as well as his height, weight, a picture, some of his favorite books, and CDs. It seems like it would really save time in weeding out the women who are looking for a rich Adonis.  I would rather be up front with a woman about who I am, what I do, and what I like, than to have to go through an evening, a week, or a month of stress dating while she finds it out, only to dump me, which can be quite painful by itself. I would think it would be a real time- and stress-saver. — Drew

Response:

Yes, I think that would be a good idea, although I would be kind of leary .  I suppose if you write back and forth for a long time and send pictures it would be o.k.   Maybe the web page would give some credibility to you also, for people would be aware of what you like to do for hobbies and pictures of your family would make that person comfortable in writing you.    Oh sure go do it! )

Kim

Response:

Simcha, Yes you can meet people on the internet, if you know what you’re doing. I caution you, though, it is a lot harder for men than women. But I know quite a lot of people who met this way and are happily involved, myself included… Having a web page is a nice touch, provided you don’t make it look like your dating resume and fill it with details about why you are a good catch. That stuff (and I’ve seen a lot) is a real turn-off, unless it can be done with just the right touch of self-effacing humor. If you do a home page, make it something personal that would interest anyone in your life — relatives, friends, colleagues. Instead of merely listing your hobbies and interests resume style, make one or two the centerpiece of your page. I.e., Simcha’s Fly Fishing Web Site… not Simcha’s Chick Fishing Web Site…. get the idea? I’d also recommend leaving off your photo, and sending it out only by request. You want a woman who is attracted to you for your mind, not your looks, right? Still, absolutely nothing beats the personal touch . . . the slow buildup as you reveal details about yourself via email, until finally you swap photos and then plan that first real-life meeting! Meeting over the Internet still requires the same amount of effort on your part, but I feel it has very definite advantages, especially for newly divorced people who can’t face the brutal rejection of the singles scene. It is most ideal for people who can express themselves well in writing. Good luck — and remember, just have fun with it. Dating is not a job search!.;-) jen  

Response:

Simcha, Why don’t you send in your photo and your bio to either me or Lee, that way you will meet others that are in the same situation you are in?  Just an idea. Daisy Add variety to your sex life, use the other hand. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a question about trying again after the end of a 25-year marriage. (I’m a 54-year-old male dumpee).  Naturally, I plan to use the usual methods to try and find someone to share my life with, but in this day of the internet, I thought I might try something additional, and I wanted to find out what y’all thought. I have no desire to "put on a front".  I think it would be only fair to let a possible partner find out all necessary information about me, with a minimum of effort or embarrassment for all concerned. So my idea was to set up a web page, with my personal details, and if I meet someone who seems to have possibilities, direct them to the site, so they can find out all relevant information.  This way, if I’m not the type they are looking for, it would save time for all concerned. Now the idea of the web page is not to attract possible partners, as I would have no desire or expectation that a random ’surfer’ would happen upon it. The idea again is to point someone I have already met to look at the page. While surfing, I found that I apparently was not the first to come up with this idea, as I have seen pages that seem to be of this type, so the question is: Is this a good idea? Now, after the reception of my "A mountain out of molehill" post, I suppose it might be a good idea to leave out that minor detail, and fill in a possible candidate when the time seems ripe, but other that that, do you think that the idea of a web page is ridiculous , or does it have merit. Any ideas are welcome. Thank you, Simcha Gomez  (a pseudonym)

Response:

Question:

Low impact fires in wilderness areas are essential to the experience where legal.  Especially if your whipping up some fresh trout burrittos.  heavy emphasis on LOW IMPACT.         Snagging Kokanee is a great way to get good, relatively wild, fresh food.  While snagging Kokanee in Gross Res. quite a few years ago I accidentally snagged a 15" rainbow.  The fish was in bad shape.  I mean it was ripped almost in half.  I was putting a bit of umph into my snagging back then.         Knowing the regs, I "released" the carcass back into the water immediately.  Wouldn’t that fish have been be better spent in the bushes where one of our furry fish eating critters might have benefitted? JE

Response:

       Snagging Kokanee is a great way to get good, relatively wild, fresh food.  While snagging Kokanee in Gross Res. quite a few years ago I accidentally snagged a 15" rainbow.  The fish was in bad shape.  I mean it was ripped almost in half.  I was putting a bit of umph into my snagging back then.        Knowing the regs, I "released" the carcass back into the water immediately.  Wouldn’t that fish have been be better spent in the bushes where one of our furry fish eating critters might have benefitted?

- if you had trolled for kokanee with the same vigour you do for flames the sorry incident wouldn’t have happened; and you wouldn’t have to ask such a stupid question. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

Ralph’s reaction: – if you had trolled for kokanee with the same vigour you do for flames the sorry incident wouldn’t have happened; and you wouldn’t have to ask such a stupid question. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.         I am stupid.  Very very stupid.  But the question?  It’s just a question.         Now, The Kokanee in Colorado do not reproduce in the wild and die naturally after their third or fourth season.  Harvest them while they’re firm.  There is good reason why the limit on snagged kokes is 40.         Rec.outdoors.fishing.snag.  That’d be a hell fire newsgroup aye?         Sorry Ralph.  I’ll be quiet now. JE

Response:

Knowing the regs, I "released" the carcass back into the water immediately.  Wouldn’t that fish have been be better spent in the bushes where one of our furry fish eating critters might have benefitted?

I am sure that they could retrieve it from the water on their own if the needed. You did the right thing. Regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

Response:

*SNIP* Snagging Kokanee is a great way to get good, relatively wild, fresh food. While snagging Kokanee in Gross Res. quite a few years ago I accidentally snagged a 15" rainbow.  The fish was in bad shape.  I mean it was ripped almost in half.  I was putting a bit of umph into my snagging back then.  Knowing the regs, I "released" the carcass back into the water immediately.  Wouldn’t that fish have been be better spent in the bushes where one of our furry fish eating critters might have benefitted?

Hi Jon, Don’t think that trout was wasted.  Even though you didn’t get to eat it, nor did your/our furry friends, the algae and aquatic insects in the water did. It’s energy was recycled into the eco-system from which it came.  It just takes a place at the bottom of the aquatic food chain instead of at the top of it. If there are bears in your area, tossing fish in the bushes could also cause a problem with bears associating people with food.  That is never a good scenario and is a very real problem in CA. I hate to see incidental mortality like you describe, but when you’re snagging fish that’s going to happen.  I don’t like snagging and wouldn’t do it myself unless it was to keep from starving (big difference between subsistance and sport), but if it’s legal in your area, you have a right to do so.  The law requiring you to put back the incidentally caught trout is actually a good one.  If it allowed keeping incidentally snagged trout, pretty soon there would be a regular contingent out there specifically targeting the "incidental" trout.                                      Good Fishing,                                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You do not specify what type of Japanese Maples these are, but…. I would recommend not pruning your Japanese Maple.  My wife’s grandmother had some very nice old maples that we had to prune every year, only because some gardner had once pruned them back.   Her/our experience was that once they’re pruned the pruned ends bush out and sucker heavily.  Every year these trees (15-20 feet tall) would bush out and become so thick you couldn’t see into them.  The pleasure of the japanese maple is the open, airy look, which was totally destroyed by the pruning. G-maw railed on and on every year about how they should never have touched those trees.  She was quite an experienced gardner and ikebana instructor, and knew her stuff.  In her opinion, the only pruning that should ever be done is to remove large branches to help promote the open feel these trees should have.  The natural shape is wonderful if you just let it go and grow up…

   My advice is also non-professional, and while I agree with these sentiments about what happens if you prune badly, it doesn’t follow that J. Maples shouldn’t be pruned.  It’s certainly true that if you lop off a major branch of most deciduous trees, the tree will put out many shoots from that point and generally look bad.  The proper thing is to prune early to establish the shape of the tree as it grows…and this pruning should generally be of complete stems or branches.  If you must cut off a thicker branch or stem other than at the base, it should be just beyond a smaller side branch that you expect to provide a better shape.  It may still be necessary to get rid of suckers, but they are easily rubbed off with your thumb when small, and the resprouting does not go on forever.   I too like the open airy look of a properly trimmed J. Maple, but this rarely happens by accident or neglect. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I LOVE THIS COMMENT AND INTEND TO PLAIGERIZE IT(SP): This is non-professional advice and if followed, voids your warranty… MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In our yard in Tuscaloosa, Alabama we have nice small three year old Japanese Maple  in need of pruning for better shaping, etc.  Is it OK to prune branches now

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Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

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Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

A true conservationist. No wonder we get stupid postings from animal rights types if prople are going to post rubbish like this. Cheers Tight Lines Rod

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I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste muddy. BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 lbs.  

I saw one caught off the shore on Lake Erie last year.  I had no clue what it was.  Posted a question on here and got many replies.  It just amazed me that there was a fresh water fish that I didn’t recognize. It did put up a strong fight, and was about 24 inches long.  Looked like a blast from our prehistoric past to me. BJA Still looking for a 23′ Bayliner Trophy (or anything else in my price range), soon going to give up and buy a new one.

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| I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, | and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some | light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good | to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the | fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply | dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat | has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste | muddy. | BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   | Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 | lbs.   Is this the same as the shovelbill catfish? Seems to me that redfish used to be considered a trashfish that was fun to catch, but lousy on the table. At least until Chef Paul began blackening them and then it became an industry. Heat up your skillet! Before I knew what they were, I caught and fried up a small freshwater drum. Yeeeeuuuucccchhhhh!

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I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation?

I’m the same way about Chain Pickerel.  I frequent Caddo in East Texas, and they have bowfin (never caught one of those before, though) and chain pickerel (a kin to the pike).  I go to Caddo specifically to catch (and release) Pickerel, and even hired a guide to help me find it when I got my first shut-out ever.  The guide?  He was more like, "uh, yeah, yeah I can help you find those (spit, spit)".  They’re wild fighters and with their long thin bodies (leverage), a 2-pounder feels like a 6-pound largemouth. I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely

I’ll fish for anything too.  There have been days when I’d be happy to catch a tiny GAR, just to make sure I really did have a hook on the end of the line!  People argue about fishing methods, lure types, brands, colors, and species.  Then you have the bass folks that hate catching anything under 5 pounds.  When the going gets tough for me, I break out the ultralight tackle and fish for bream!   Of course, I say all of this and I have my biases too.  Some people love fishing for carp, but I can’t stand them.  I’m also not really crazy about gar.  Maybe I have an adversion to anything with armidillo type skin.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton

How did u prep those bowfin to get them ready for the oven ???? I was in Northern Louisiana (Air Force assignment) a few years ago and caught these fish in the bayus of Barksdale AFB … They did wonders for a good frisky catch / better fight than any bass I’ve ever caught /  but they "melted" when I tried to fry them …. I used them in the tomatoe garden … planted along side the plants … What GREAT plant food !!!!!! BoneyFingers / in Georgia (now) ..

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I live in South Florida and I want to know if there are more people out there who enjoy catching Bowfins? They are called Mudfish down here, and everyone seems to consider them a "trash" fish, except of course me. My first Mudfish was about 5 pounds, and fought like a cross between a catfish and a bass, diving, leaping, twisting, over and over. When I finally got it next to the boat, my fishing partner went, ugh! Mudfish…. I had caught a few bass earlier but none of them were as big or fought as hard as this gladiator from the stone age. I was hooked. I promptly changed my fishing tactics and targeted the Mudfish as my quarry for the rest of the day. Since them I have sponsored 5 Mudfish tournaments. All my friends are now hooked on the sport, and we even had a reporter come out to one of the tournaments and they printed a big article on us in the local newspaper. Once I found out that they were not only edible, but when baked they taste exactly like turkey breast, all white meat and juicy. Not one bit fishy. We now hold a big barbecue after the tournament, and enjoy Bowfin and beer till it gets dark. I have served baked fillet of Bowfin covered with Turkey gravy at Thanksgiving to my unsuspecting guests as an experiment to see if it was just me, or did this really taste like Turkey. Surprise. Everyone commented how tasty the White Turkey Meat was. I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

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I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun.  I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs  put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

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: I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever : you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their : fighting capabilities. : I find it hard to believe that this fantastic : fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good : trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can : anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is : the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps : twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten To me, catching the nasty bow-fin is like that awful story where a man’s wife gets raped; certainly she fights as hard as she can, and the attackers are later captured, but sex never is the same again. Well, perhaps not *that* extreme. The thing is, they’ll go after most anything, and it will always be an unpleasant surprise. Top-water plugs? Nasty, stink-bait? Soft-plastics? Whatever you’re fishing for, or with, sooner or later, you’re going to be convinced you’ve caught the biggest *ever* of that species, only to see the horrible grinnel surface. <sigh Yes, the fighting properties of the fish are all that, and then some. But if you think you’ve got a wall-hanger largemouth….<sigh And as for "tasting like turkey…."   The meat’s got a soft, gelatinous texture. It doesn’t smell good, and is yellowish, with holes like a sponge. Turkey breast, my foot. I thnk I’ll have a drum-stick.

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I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their fighting capabilities.  Beaver Dam Lake was stocked with them in an effort to reduce the carp population.  It was assumed that they would eat the carp fry.  Ignorant fisherman killed them as fast as they caught them.  They assumed the bowfins were eating all the walleye!  Now, if I were a predatory fish, forced to live in a cesspool like Beaver Dam Lake, would I be eating a rare, spiny walleye, or leisurely gulping down soft rayed carp fry, which are present in vast shoals? — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton                                                

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