Question:

July 24,25.26,27  Gosh, I hope you can make it.  You are going to be missing a wonderful party if you dont.  LOL

I  put it on my calendar, I have been watching the fares.  It is on a weekend so there is not too much time off.  It would be a blast  to attend one of the Midwest/East coast gimpfests.  – MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My son rowed the Middle Fork last year and came back saying he wants to move to Idaho. He’s applied for this year too, also in June. I’ll have to call him today to see if he’s heard yet. Did you get an early enough date to be able to contiunue on down the main part of the river? That’s their strategy- I guess there’s a window of opportunity if the timing is right. Usually it is the Middlefork that has the limitation on water the first day or until you reach Indian Creek, then the flow almost doubles.  Main Salmon is always runnable.  It is a lousy water year, but I am hoping runoff will last long enough to get us through the first day or 2 after that the flows increase. I can imagine your son loved it, it is  an amazing river even after all the fires.  – MZ

Well, it’s not too late to pray for more snow! last year April was very productive I understand. All this talk–has me dreaming about kayaking the Green River again. I did that a number of years ago before I got RA.  Flat water but wonderful. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

We will also try to get a permit for the Main Salmon.  If we can score a permit for the main stem Salmon it means we will do the Middlefork then float down to the put-in on the Main Salmon and do back to back trips totaling about 200 miles.

Ooops, obviously I didn’t read on down the thread before posting! too exciting! Cynthia

Response:

My son rowed the Middle Fork last year and came back saying he wants to move to Idaho. He’s applied for this year too, also in June. I’ll have to call him today to see if he’s heard yet. Did you get an early enough date to be able to contiunue on down the main part of the river? That’s their strategy- I guess there’s a window of opportunity if the timing is right.

Usually it is the Middlefork that has the limitation on water the first day or until you reach Indian Creek, then the flow almost doubles.  Main Salmon is always runnable.  It is a lousy water year, but I am hoping runoff will last long enough to get us through the first day or 2 after that the flows increase. I can imagine your son loved it, it is  an amazing river even after all the fires.  – MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

Thank you for the compliment.  I hope we have a good flow in June for you. It is beautiful.  I packed back into Big Creek, a tributary of the Salmon, on horses when I was 18.  Dad and Unc were after goats and sheep.  They filled both.  It was literally an experience of a lifetime.  I am now 56 and Dad and Unc are 83 and 79.  Wish we had more pictures. I wish you the best and I can imagine how excited you are.

You have a beautiful State and the Middlefork is really magical, it is one of my most favorite rivers (and I have done a fair number of rivers).  I put it in the top 3 right next to the Grand Canyon. You can’t compare the Grand and Middlefork they are apples and oranges.  I always try to read the history when I go.  I have read about the Sheepeaters and the wars.  If we get a Main Salmon permit we go right past the Polly Beamis homestead.  I love reading river lore.  I read the book Thousand Pieces of Gold about Polly Beamis when I ran the Salmon.  On the Rogue I enjoy reading Hathaway Jones stories out loud; everyone gets into hysterics, they are tall tales.  Fun to dig out the history.   If you have any good book suggestions for that area let me know. Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

What a blast we will be launching in June!

Hmmmmm.  Does that free you up for Gimpfest in July? Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

What a blast we will be launching in June! Hmmmmm.  Does that free you up for Gimpfest in July? Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’. We’re all in this together."  Red Green

When is the Gimpfest?  I have a request  in Travelocity to watch for good fares to Des Moines.  We will be gone until early July,  a bit longer if the Main Sa;lmon permit is obtained. — MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

July 24-27 http://www.fadedjeans.com/iowa/ Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a blast we will be launching in June! Hmmmmm.  Does that free you up for Gimpfest in July? Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’. We’re all in this together."  Red Green When is the Gimpfest?  I have a request  in Travelocity to watch for good fares to Des Moines.  We will be gone until early July,  a bit longer if the Main Sa;lmon permit is obtained. — MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

–   _(‘  (_<_)           _   _(‘< -quack  (_<_)     _    __(‘< *QUACK!* <_{__)   _(‘< "|,,|_"  (_<_)

Response:

July 24,25.26,27  Gosh, I hope you can make it.  You are going to be missing a wonderful party if you dont.  LOL Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

I just got the word one of my boating buddies drew a permit for the Idaho’s Middlefork of the Salmon!   I love rowing the Middlefork it is one of my all time favorite rivers and an extremely difficult permit to get.  What a blast we will be launching in June!  Sorry I know this is way OTP but this is really exciting news. — MZ

Lucky You! My son rowed the Middle Fork last year and came back saying he wants to move to Idaho. He’s applied for this year too, also in June. I’ll have to call him today to see if he’s heard yet. Did you get an early enough date to be able to contiunue on down the main part of the river? That’s their strategy- I guess there’s a window of opportunity if the timing is right. Cynthia

Response:

Have you ever examined the info on the Sheepeater Indians?  They populated the area and that is where the petroglyphs came from.  You can still see depressions in some of the banks that were where they camped. — Val in Boise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We will also try to get a permit for the Main Salmon.  If we can score a permit for the main stem Salmon it means we will do the Middlefork then float down to the put-in on the Main Salmon and do back to back trips totaling about 200 miles.  We did the Middlefork last in 1997 managed to pick-up a canceled permit for the Main Salmon 2 days before we departed for the trip.  It is awesome crystal clear water, canyons, mountains, hot springs, elk, big horn, petroglyphs, and the best fly fishing you will find anywhere.  First day of the Middlefork is non-stop rapids, not overwhelming but you have to pay attention. Our party usually breaks at least 1 oar in that stretch because it is shallow. Picking up a canceled permits mean we have to call almost every day starting in late March. This is one of the classic western river trips.  I have been bouncing off the walls all day.  – MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

Thank you for the compliment.  I hope we have a good flow in June for you. It is beautiful.  I packed back into Big Creek, a tributary of the Salmon, on horses when I was 18.  Dad and Unc were after goats and sheep.  They filled both.  It was literally an experience of a lifetime.  I am now 56 and Dad and Unc are 83 and 79.  Wish we had more pictures. I wish you the best and I can imagine how excited you are. — Val in Boise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got the word one of my boating buddies drew a permit for the Idaho’s Middlefork of the Salmon!   I love rowing the Middlefork it is one of my all time favorite rivers and an extremely difficult permit to get.  What a blast we will be launching in June!  Sorry I know this is way OTP but this is really exciting news. — MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

I just got the word one of my boating buddies drew a permit for the Idaho’s Middlefork of the Salmon!   I love rowing the Middlefork it is one of my all time favorite rivers and an extremely difficult permit to get.  What a blast we will be launching in June!  Sorry I know this is way OTP but this is really exciting news. — MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

Sent this along to John. You just never know. Duckie I just got the word one of my boating buddies drew a permit for the Idaho’s Middlefork of the Salmon!   I love rowing the Middlefork it is one of my all time favorite rivers and an extremely difficult permit to get.  What a blast we will be launching in June!  Sorry I know this is way OTP but this is really exciting news. — MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

–   _(‘  (_<_)           _   _(‘< -quack  (_<_)     _    __(‘< *QUACK!* <_{__)   _(‘< "|,,|_"  (_<_)

Response:

I just got the word one of my boating buddies drew a permit for the Idaho’s Middlefork of the Salmon!   I love rowing the Middlefork it is one of my all time favorite rivers and an extremely difficult permit to get.  What a blast we will be launching in June!  Sorry I know this is way OTP but this is really exciting news. — MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Wonderful!  How are you gonna stand the wait until June? — Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me "To array a man’s will against his sickness is the supreme art of medicine." …Henry Ward Beecher

Response:

Welll as usual, I will expect a vicarious thrill.  Congrats M

Response:

We will also try to get a permit for the Main Salmon.  If we can score a permit for the main stem Salmon it means we will do the Middlefork then float down to the put-in on the Main Salmon and do back to back trips totaling about 200 miles.  We did the Middlefork last in 1997 managed to pick-up a canceled permit for the Main Salmon 2 days before we departed for the trip.  It is awesome crystal clear water, canyons, mountains, hot springs, elk, big horn, petroglyphs, and the best fly fishing you will find anywhere.  First day of the Middlefork is non-stop rapids, not overwhelming but you have to pay attention. Our party usually breaks at least 1 oar in that stretch because it is shallow. Picking up a canceled permits mean we have to call almost every day starting in late March. This is one of the classic western river trips.  I have been bouncing off the walls all day.  – MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

Question:

rw, You are beginning to sound like Forty and his objection to squaw,

You really think so? Never mind, then. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Which is one reason why I do it. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …to paraphrase Robert Lynd (who was talking about playing golf):  It’s almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is flyfishing.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly.

_____  gee r.w.?  You had to post this just when I was about to release the New 2001 products list: 1)  Chernobyl "First Strike" Glow Indicators 2)  Green Chernobyl Fish-Fuzz 3)  Chernobyl (half-life) Sun Tan Cream 4)  The Dirty Nuclear Green Machine Fly 5)  Heavy Hydrogen Sinking Chernobyl Tippets I have more, but out of respect to your point of view, I cannot release these products.

Response:

_____  gee r.w.?  You had to post this just when I was about to release the New 2001 products list: 1)  Chernobyl "First Strike" Glow Indicators

Great product name. George. You may be crazy, but you aren’t stupid. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

RW, I don’t think most of these guys would think it was funny if THEY were on the VA Agent Orange and/or Gulf War Syndrome registry. El Paso Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

RW, I don’t think most of these guys would think it was funny if THEY were on the VA Agent Orange and/or Gulf War Syndrome registry.

This has nothing to do with anything, but RWJ’s post reminded me of the story: I’ve known a lot of stupid people in my life, but one guy stands out in my memory.   He was a coworker many years ago who, through little fault of his own, had apparently no concept of the world most of us consider normal. From our conversations over the years, I concluded that he’d been raised in a home situation lacking in intellectual stimulation, financial stability, and positive encouragement.   On top of that, he was of small stature, and seemed to feel a constant need to prove that he was both tough and smart. He was, in fact, insecure and not very bright.   But that’s only background. He took up body building, and I believe he seriously thought about pursuing a career as a "professional wrestler".   He began weight lifting, and in his desire to acquire the bodybuilder look, he decided that he needed a tan; and he answered one of those back-of-the-magazine ads for a product that allows you to "tan without the sun".   I don’t know what was in the pills he received, but he took them as directed (knowing him though, probably at twice the dosage).   He was encouraged that his skin did begin to darken, and he continued his regimen.   Ultimately, he turned orange.   Not brightly, of course, but as the color effect intensified over time, there wasn’t a hint of brown to be seen.   He was undoubtedly orange.   He, of course, saw this an a precursor to "tan" and kept taking the pills, until he was unmistakably orange right down to his fingernails. In the end, he only earned the nickname "Agent Orange" that stayed with him for the rest of the time we knew him.   What a character.

Response:

rw, You are beginning to sound like Forty and his objection to squaw, "rw" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly.

Response:

…to paraphrase Robert Lynd (who was talking about playing golf):  It’s almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is flyfishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it. Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F. Ya, it’s a realy sad commentary on extreme rural poverty – a child is more expendable than the ox.  Farmers, their children and their animals are still at risk from landmines in much of SE Asia and Africa.  Wonderful legacy of the arms merchants. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." —

that one is funny until you think about it. Peter

Response:

"Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it.

Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it. Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F.

Ya, it’s a realy sad commentary on extreme rural poverty – a child is more expendable than the ox.  Farmers, their children and their animals are still at risk from landmines in much of SE Asia and Africa.  Wonderful legacy of the arms merchants. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I shoulda used this tactic with my ex-wife. The insurance money would have bought *several* nice bamboo rods. <g

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines."

– Charles Reaves

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." — Charles Reaves

I’ve seen a few sites that cover landmines (I think I have them bookmarked somewhere) plus prgrams on Canadian and British demining teams at work in places like Bosnia.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines."

I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Question:

1. Nothing, I do it all the time. 2. Nothing, if it helps to catch fish…it has worked for me. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED ASST. OLD FART OF ROFF OLD, GRAY, TIRED SWAPMEISTER TIRED OF THIS POLITICAL BULLSHIT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I hope no one reports me for going OT, but I’ve decided we’ve had enough dilly dallying; it’s time to talk serious politics and try to raise a little debate in this group for once. What’s wrong with fishing downstream? and What’s wrong with fishing a dropper rig with an indicator? Shell away. — "Q: May I ask why this crap is on a flyfishing newsgroup??" "A: This is a flyfishing people newsgroup.  It’s a bunch of people who happen to flyfish talking about various topics that they might talk about while fishing." -Ken Janik (who keeps winding up in my signature files)

Response:

I’m with Frank on this one!  Hell I’ll even cast some bait, if it will catch me a prize winning young (female) divorcee.  Frank’s da man! Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Nothing, I do it all the time. 2. Nothing, if it helps to catch fish…it has worked for me. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED ASST. OLD FART OF ROFF OLD, GRAY, TIRED SWAPMEISTER TIRED OF THIS POLITICAL BULLSHIT OK, I hope no one reports me for going OT, but I’ve decided we’ve had enough dilly dallying; it’s time to talk serious politics and try to raise a little debate in this group for once. What’s wrong with fishing downstream? and What’s wrong with fishing a dropper rig with an indicator? Shell away. — "Q: May I ask why this crap is on a flyfishing newsgroup??" "A: This is a flyfishing people newsgroup.  It’s a bunch of people who happen to flyfish talking about various topics that they might talk about while fishing." -Ken Janik (who keeps winding up in my signature files)

Response:

I’m with Frank on this one!  Hell I’ll even cast some bait, if it will catch me a prize winning young (female) divorcee.  Frank’s da man!

Just remember, Opie, that the big fish usually don’t bite on small baits… Kevin

Response:

What’s wrong with fishing downstream?  Nothing at all my friend.  I do all the time on my favorite rivers.  The fish don’t seem to mind and I actually get some very entertaining strikes by letting my fly loop downstream and then stripping it down and across as it drags. I will say that there are situations where casting upstream is required to do well but most of the time, walking down the stream works fine. Mike Wilson

Response:

fishing downstream can be particularly effective…try fishing a softhackle normally upstream then letting it tail out behind you as it goes downstream….caught alot of fish this way…kindof simulates and emerging nymph….try it….youll be surprised… roy

Response:

You been peeping into my window at night Kevin? — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m with Frank on this one!  Hell I’ll even cast some bait, if it will catch me a prize winning young (female) divorcee.  Frank’s da man! Just remember, Opie, that the big fish usually don’t bite on small baits… Kevin

Response:

Question:

…so walt, that explains why you were so easily hooked, eh??

doncha be callin’ me a fish, jeff. genetically-impaired….no problemo, but fish, no way. well, walt, some of us need a bit of a challenge ya know…those tight loops and free casts you throw are just way too easy…and, anybody can tie a knot with their hands (btw, that was a surgeon’s loop you witnessed me create in the air) …i need me some trees, rocks, and fishin buddies to carom my flies off… seems only sportin. how to explain it???  karma, man, pure karma… jeff (applying the billiards zen theory to ff)

as rene (georgie’s honey-bun from rap) once said here at roff… "oh, it’s a zen thingy". on a more serious note….i hope you guy’s aren’t getting pounded with rain again. waldo

Response:

hate to hear you’ve lost the knack, so…out of pure, gawldang southern empathy, anytime you can make yer way to north carolina i’d be honored to help you re-instill the fine art of tree catchin…i excel in the skill… i can personally vouch for jeff’s innate ability to catch anything but the occasional genetically-impaired fish….

…so walt, that explains why you were so easily hooked, eh?? he actually caught a fish after yanking the fly out of a tree….put the darndest "wind" knot in the line i’ve ever seen. the fly landed on the water…hookset, and wallah… biggest fish of the day. i’m not gonna even try and explain it…i wouldn’t even know how.

well, walt, some of us need a bit of a challenge ya know…those tight loops and free casts you throw are just way too easy…and, anybody can tie a knot with their hands (btw, that was a surgeon’s loop you witnessed me create in the air) …i need me some trees, rocks, and fishin buddies to carom my flies off… seems only sportin. how to explain it???  karma, man, pure karma… jeff (applying the billiards zen theory to ff) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

hate to hear you’ve lost the knack, so…out of pure, gawldang southern empathy, anytime you can make yer way to north carolina i’d be honored to help you re-instill the fine art of tree catchin…i excel in the skill… jeff (holder of the state record for leaf-fish)

i can personally vouch for jeff’s innate ability to catch anything but the occasional genetically-impaired fish….hell, he even hooked my arm and i thought i was safe behind that boulder. damndest thing…he actually caught a fish after yanking the fly out of a tree….put the darndest "wind" knot in the line i’ve ever seen. the fly landed on the water…hookset, and wallah… biggest fish of the day. i’m not gonna even try and explain it…i wouldn’t even know how. waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

,,,<snipped some stuff… I was a really expert tree catcher in those days -lost the knack a bit since. Thanks again Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

hate to hear you’ve lost the knack, so…out of pure, gawldang southern empathy, anytime you can make yer way to north carolina i’d be honored to help you re-instill the fine art of tree catchin…i excel in the skill… jeff (holder of the state record for leaf-fish)

Response:

Tony, I tied a few of Andre Puyans Loop Wing’s and they seemed to hold up just fine.  I didn’t notice any improvement in catching fish Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2.

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I remember reading an article by John Veniard on the Andre Puyans Loop Wing Dun in ‘Trout & Salmon’ back in the early 70s. The piece was reproduced in ‘Modern Fly-Tying Techniques’, by John Veniard and Donald Downs. At the time, I never had the confidence that those loop wings would hold up for any distance with me: I was a really expert tree catcher in those days -lost the knack a bit since. Tony Deacon

Response:

Not knockin’ your knowledge of the G&H Sedge Tony, but truth be known, it was ACTUALLY a threesome that developed this fly. The pattern was thought up as a collaboration by three tyers and fishermen, one who didn’t want any credit for his part in developing the fly, a guy named Andre Puyans…

(interesting history snipped) I’m indebted to you Larry. I didn’t know that Andre Puyans had a hand in the G&H. Credit where it’s due! I have at least a nodding acquaintance with John Goddard. He was very good about providing me with articles, at short notice sometimes, when I edited the quarterly magazine of the Fly Dressers’ Guild a few years back. He has probably forgotten more about angling than most of us will every know. Very dry sense of humour. Now, if only Andy can get full credit for his Loop Wing Dun and his line of AP Nymphs, among other flies he’s developed over the years…

I remember reading an article by John Veniard on the Andre Puyans Loop Wing Dun in ‘Trout & Salmon’ back in the early 70s. The piece was reproduced in ‘Modern Fly-Tying Techniques’, by John Veniard and Donald Downs. At the time, I never had the confidence that those loop wings would hold up for any distance with me: I was a really expert tree catcher in those days -lost the knack a bit since. Thanks again Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

it thick, the thicker the better

CarefulDave.I am not one of them, but you should see how one of the members of The Roadkill Roundtable packs deer hair…If I had not watched Bruce pack it I could have sworn it was balsa wood. Big Dale  

Response:

Darin Minor writes:

<<I’ve been looking for the pattern for this fly for some time. Could somebody please post it for me? Thanks in advance, Hook:  Dry fly Thread:  Gray or black Body:  Natural deer hair, spun and trimmed into the whap of a           wing adult caddisfly Antennae:  Two stems of a brown hack with the barbs stripped. Hackle:  Brown. The original recipe called for a small piece of bright green fur (or dubbing) spun in at the back as a first step and then pulled forward and tied off as a final step.  However, I have never seen one tied with this option. If you hate to spin deer hair, this ain’t the pattern for you.  Pack it thick, the thicker the better. Dave LaCourse

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Darin Minor writes: <<I’ve been looking for the pattern for this fly for some time. Could somebody please post it for me? Thanks in advance, Hook:  Dry fly Thread:  Gray or black Body:  Natural deer hair, spun and trimmed into the whap of a           wing adult caddisfly Antennae:  Two stems of a brown hack with the barbs stripped. Hackle:  Brown. The original recipe called for a small piece of bright green fur (or dubbing) spun in at the back as a first step and then pulled forward and tied off as a final step.  However, I have never seen one tied with this option. If you hate to spin deer hair, this ain’t the pattern for you.  Pack it thick, the thicker the better. Dave LaCourse

Thanks for posting the pattern Dave. Darin

Response:

Tony Deacon writes:

(snip for brevity) <<May I make the plea that Cliff Henry is remembered and given the credit he is due by using the original name: the ‘G&H Sedge’? Thank you for the history lesson, Tony.  I am a great afcionado of the Goddard Caddis.  I fish it almost exclusively on some rivers.  I tie is down to a size 18, but 16s and 14s are used most.  Because of its bouyancy, it is a great fly to skitter.  It will be tough to call it the G&H Sedge, but I will give it a try.  <g  And, of course, when folks question me I will have to give *them* a history lesson. Dave LaCourse

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The pattern popularly known as the ‘Goddard Caddis’ was originally called the ‘G&H Sedge’ and was a collaboration between John Goddard and the late Cliff Henry. I share the belief with many that the G&H is one of the truly great dry fly designs of all time. Because it is positively buoyant, even without proofing, one can fish it on a pitch black night with absolute confidence that it is still on the surface. It has caught me literally hundreds of brown and rainbow trout and many dozens of sea trout, fished as a ‘wake’ fly on the blackest of nights. May I make the plea that Cliff Henry is remembered and given the credit he is due by using the original name: the ‘G&H Sedge’? Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

I’ve been looking for the pattern for this fly for some time. Could somebody please post it for me? Thanks in advance, Darin

Response:

Not knockin’ your knowledge of the G&H Sedge Tony, but truth be known, it was ACTUALLY a threesome that developed this fly. The pattern was thought up as a collaboration by three tyers and fishermen, one who didn’t want any credit for his part in developing the fly, a guy named Andre Puyans.  Andy was sitting with John and Cliff one of the nights they were developing this fly and actually came up with the idea of the spun and clipped hair.  Story is by the time they had the "final product" tied, they were all in quite a drunken stupor and were quite pleased with their efforts, but didn’t really know what they came up with until the next morning when they were sober!! One of the features of the patten that has seemed to vanish into the dust is the spun fur dubbing strip of green hare (or originally seal) that was left hanging from the rear of the hook until the fly was completed, then pulled forward under the belly before tying in the antennae and hackling the fly. Another tip I shared with someone earlier today was to make the fly have a more "mottled" appearance like sedges naturally do, blend caribou and antelope along with deer to get the "blotchy" colors that are seen in a sedge’s wings.  The antennae are optional, but sure look nice on the finished fly….stripped coachman brown hackle quills are my favorite, but moose looks nice too.  Tie in the hackle quills just forward of the finished and trimmed body by the butts, leaving the tips on the hackles, then trim them after hackling the fly. Andy ties this patten at demos he does at some shows and tells the story, giving FULL CREDIT to both John Goddard and Cliff Henry when he does…and he says "It’s known now as the Goddard Caddis, but the TRUE name of the fly is the G&H Sedge" Larry #:)# Now, if only Andy can get full credit for his Loop Wing Dun and his line of AP Nymphs, among other flies he’s developed over the years…

Response:

The pattern popularly known as the ‘Goddard Caddis’ was originally called the ‘G&H Sedge’ and was a collaboration between John Goddard and the late Cliff Henry. I share the belief with many that the G&H is one of the truly great dry fly designs of all time. Because it is positively buoyant, even without proofing, one can fish it on a pitch black night with absolute confidence that it is still on the surface. It has caught me literally hundreds of brown and rainbow trout and many dozens of sea trout, fished as a ‘wake’ fly on the blackest of nights. May I make the plea that Cliff Henry is remembered and given the credit he is due by using the original name: the ‘G&H Sedge’? Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Question:

But the government did many things for me just today. etc.

GOOD response.  We so often bite the hand that is suppplying our needs. Chuck Mealey Archer 2185B

Response:

In article xyz, (yet another NGrouper) writes: But the government did many things for me just today. GOOD response.  We so often bite the hand that is suppplying our needs.

Pitiful, just pitiful. Why is it so easy for some people to ignore that "the government did many things (TO) me just today"? It’s a healthy thing to take a regular and enthusiastic nip at "the hand that is supplying our ‘needs’". Where do you think the other hand is meanwhile? Jack

Response:

When was the last time the government took you out to a nice dinner, or did anything for you, for that matter!!  ;)  

The government hasn’t bought me a dinner since I got our of the marines in 1954.   But the government did many things for me just today.  It provided a wx report so I could decide to go fishing. It forced a nearby chemical company to stop polluting the stream so I could fish there in safety. It built roads from my house to that trout stream.  It installed traffic lights to keep people from  smacking into me as I drove along.  I passed a prison where the government keeps many people locked up so they can’t break into my home.   I didn’t fly today, but when I do, I get even more detailed wx information and can file an ifr flight plan and be provided the services of a number of government employees to assist me in conducting aa safe flight to my destination. Yes, I helped pay for all those things the government did for me, because there isn’t anyone but us citizens to pay for them.  I don’t always get my money’s worth from Uncle Sam, but I don’t always get it from private-enterprise business firms, either!   There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. vince norris

Response:

the stc and tso on drano is needed but then a licensed a&p is also needed along with a 337 and a blessing from the fsdo. if you don’t know what all these mean you can’t afford a plane **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****

Response:

Instead of flushing the grand down the toilet, I take the $1000 and buy something neat for my plane and that way I NEVER have bad feelings about where the money went…. Garrett

Well, you’re on the right track.  But what you really need is a short course in Gormanomics (the patented Jim Gorman approach to rationalizing an airplane…or any other absurd expenditure.)  Here’s how it works. Say something goes wrong and your mechanic tells you it’s going to cost $1,000 to replace it.  Oh no!  You don’t have $1,000 or anywhere near it. What are you going to do? Well, you find out that you can have it repaired for $400.  Presto!  You thought you were out $1,000 (that you didn’t have).  Now you’re only out $400 (that you also didn’t have).  But that means you’ve saved $600 from the amount you originally thought you were screwed.  So now you’ve got an extra $600 to blow on something like a new headset or a handheld GPS. Now for the advanced course in Gormanomics:  If you can find that $600 headset on sale for $500, you’ll save an additional $100 which you can now use to take your spouse out for a nice dinner so you don’t feel guilty for blowing all that money on the plane.  Now you’ve got a repaired gizmo, a new headset and a happy spouse. Now, wasn’t that easy?

Response:

Well, you find out that you can have it repaired for $400.  Presto!  You thought you were out $1,000 (that you didn’t have).  Now you’re only out $400 (that you also didn’t have).  But that means you’ve saved $600 from the amount you originally thought you were screwed.  So now you’ve got an extra $600 to blow on something like a new headset or a handheld GPS. Now for the advanced course in Gormanomics:  If you can find that $600 headset on sale for $500, you’ll save an additional $100 which you can now use to take your spouse out for a nice dinner so you don’t feel guilty for blowing all that money on the plane.  Now you’ve got a repaired gizmo, a new headset and a happy spouse.

Uhm, Jim isn’t that how the government budget surplus works, too? Mike

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Instead of flushing the grand down the toilet, I take the $1000 and buy something neat for my plane and that way I NEVER have bad feelings about where the money went…. Garrett Well, you’re on the right track.  But what you really need is a short course in Gormanomics (the patented Jim Gorman approach to rationalizing an airplane…or any other absurd expenditure.)  Here’s how it works. Say something goes wrong and your mechanic tells you it’s going to cost $1,000 to replace it.  Oh no!  You don’t have $1,000 or anywhere near it. What are you going to do? Well, you find out that you can have it repaired for $400.  Presto! You thought you were out $1,000 (that you didn’t have).  Now you’re only out $400 (that you also didn’t have).  But that means you’ve saved $600 from the amount you originally thought you were screwed.  So now you’ve got an extra $600 to blow on something like a new headset or a handheld GPS. Now for the advanced course in Gormanomics:  If you can find that $600 headset on sale for $500, you’ll save an additional $100 which you can now use to take your spouse out for a nice dinner so you don’t feel guilty for blowing all that money on the plane.  Now you’ve got a repaired gizmo, a new headset and a happy spouse. Now, wasn’t that easy?

Your right, it’s very straightforward.  In fact, from what I understand, this is exactly how Congress does it when they say tax ‘cuts’ and budget ‘cuts’! –Mike Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Can you afford an airplane? Do this test. Take a $1000 bill (you DO have a $1000 bill dont you?), and flush it down the toilet. If it hurts, you can’t afford an airplane, if it doesn’t hurt too bad, you can probably afford one.

What does strength (holding on against the suction) have to do with affording an airplane?

Response:

Can you afford an airplane? Do this test. Take a $1000 bill (you DO have a $1000 bill dont you?), and flush it down the toilet. If it hurts, you can’t afford an airplane, if it doesn’t hurt too bad, you can probably afford one.

I think Drano puts out a special formula product to unclog toilets that have had this test performed. The only bad part is it costs $999.95

Response:

Hmm.  I thought you supposed to burn the $1000’s.  I knew I was doing something wrong!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you afford an airplane? Do this test. Take a $1000 bill (you DO have a $1000 bill dont you?), and flush it down the toilet. If it hurts, you can’t afford an airplane, if it doesn’t hurt too bad, you can probably afford one.

Response:

Is that the special STC’d and TSO’d Drano???? **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****

Response:

Instead of flushing the grand down the toilet, I take the $1000 and buy something neat for my plane and that way I NEVER have bad feelings about where the money went…. Garrett

Response:

My plumber … he has an airplane … think I know how he got it now … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is that the special STC’d and TSO’d Drano???? **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****

Response:

Except that they forget about the part of making everybody happy.  When was the last time the government took you out to a nice dinner, or did anything for you, for that matter!!  ;)   If you can remember this, you are probably too old to pass the medical, so don’t bother to buy the airplane! Your right, it’s very straightforward.  In fact, from what I understand, this is exactly how Congress does it when they say tax ‘cuts’ and budget ‘cuts’! –Mike Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

IF GOD HAD WANTED MAN TO FLY HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN HIM MONEY!!!! says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can you afford an airplane? Do this test. Take a $1000 bill (you DO have a $1000 bill dont you?), and flush it down the toilet. If it hurts, you can’t afford an airplane, if it doesn’t hurt too bad, you can probably afford one.

Response:

Question:

father/son stuff snipped, unfortunately I contacted Don Bastien and arranged a weekend of fishing on Spring Creek

story of average size Spring Creek brown trout snipped (just kidding folks) Peter:  good guy and guide (I know him),  and a tribute to the stream as well. Lot’s of us are working to keep it that way. Mark Faulkner (counting the days till the end of March……)

Response:

My son Scott, was an avid spin fisherman but he didn’t seem really enthusiastic about taking to the fly.  His biggest problem was lack of success.  Unwittingly, I had compounded matters.  When we went fishing on a really tough bit of water, from his perspective, I seemed to be able to sniff out and take fish at will while he came up empty handed. Later on, I decided that a day in PA would be in order.  I contacted Don Bastien and arranged a weekend of fishing on Spring Creek Donny met us promptly at the Bush Hotel and after the usually introductions, we headed off for the creek.  Donny had promised to take us to some spots that usually did not attract  many other fishermen.  But when we arrived at a part of the creek lined with cottages, I had my doubts.  After suiting up and walking over to the stream bank, I could see fish rising steadily and the doubts faded. Trust the guide, trust the guide. I started off with a sulpher dry while Donny had Scott nymph a deeper run.  Gradually, his technique started to improve and he began to catch fish.  With each fish, his confidence kept rising.  Later we moved further up stream and Donny put Scott onto a 17" brown which he landed and a much bigger one that broke him off.  A flyfisherman was born. Thanks Donny Peter

Response:

question, What was your best day fishing?   I’ll preface this by saying that it wasn’t trout and it wasn’t a flyrod. This was before I started throwing expensive clotheslines into the trees.

I’m no gear bigot, a good day fishing is a good day fishing, regardless of what type of rod you are using. Later,      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

Response:

Boy this is a tough one to answer.  I have had so many wonderful days that have envoked so many great feelings. From a technical standpoint, it would have to be the day that my casting and ability to read the water all came together at once and I was able to put the fly 2 inches from the log along the bank of my favorite river on the first cast.  The wild bow came right out and nailed in textbook fashion. Big fish day would have to be the 20 pound rainbow taken up in British Columbia last summer. All in all though, I would have say that the days spent out with my 5 year old son fishing in our tiny 7 foot boat are the best.  He screams with joy when he gets a fish on his fly rod.  Good stuff to remember and I hope to spend many more years pursing trout with him.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, With all the negativity on this group as of late (I’ve done my share) I thought a positive thread might help with these winter blues so many of us seem to be experiencing.  So, I ask the question, What was your best day fishing?  

I’ll preface this by saying that it wasn’t trout and it wasn’t a flyrod. This was before I started throwing expensive clotheslines into the trees. Last summer, when I took my spinning rig to go after trout. Everybody said that my bass rig would never catch trout. Yeah, right. I like to do things just because they’re supposed to be impossible. Anyway, the weather was cloudy and dripping on and off. Not sunny enough to go out and shoot gophers, but I took my .22 with me just the same and almost dropped it in the river. I sat on the bank, popped open a beer, and tied on a 3" crankbait. One beer, a few casts, nothing. I got up, went to a bend in the river, and threw a few more casts. Hooked something. Couldn’t see what it was but it fought pretty good-about like a good-sized smallmouth or spot. I brought it in-it turned out to be my first ever rainbow. I didn’t measure it, but it looked to be about 16" standard length (snout to the base of the caudal fin). Released it. Finished my beer. Opened another one. Threw another few casts into that same slackwater at the bend. Nothing. I got up and moved upstream a little more. Started casting downstream, and caught another bow behind a huge rock. Brought it almost all the way in. Picked it up to try and unhook it and get a picture before I released it, but it broke off and ran off with one of my favorite crankbaits. Oh, well, I guess that’s the breaks of the game. Beautiful scenery and fishing with a cousin that I don’t see all that often… I think that qualifies as a pretty durn good day. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNruUi5diUzdLFqlpAQE4mwf/RrzaBPK/OPVM3Ky16dsN0ybat4VqtXjy 5RyoGBhB8+nJVxHVFgniCTqbmaKpbyGFXF80cZdhnqCV9kwP0eW7VNZvlINvuijd Myq2EHR7Phzw+9PkRFlT/E8k3OdmjAPWDZkyGMmvQcEShiKFZNCSYf6RWNFEB/m6 ud3M78qAFlY+AquSBvewbIsRzCLaxxgPf8V+INMVPFa6WtIICkbNhHt2aefq+TDm gLLyWyeDx4aV3zNoLXNnNzx6XlmFECpe3GAdQ0EXh2hJIgxkHV4xqL6XO7b9Uk7J zIM49Y2hsjkr+PAH/s0blCNncOPWB0pkoPWQPLfk4d5e48bxz+3Tcg== =Upmc —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon.

Response:

Great story, Ken.  At least you didn’t show up for dinner with your clothes in disarray.

 No, that’s a story for another day.  (-: My best day?

[Wonderful story about introducing grandkids to fly-fishing snipped] It always amazes me the diversity this group has (probably the source of half our troubles).  Your grandkids are only about 10 years younger than I am.  I only hope to someday have what you have.  Savor it. Later,       – Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

Response:

With all the negativity on this group as of late (I’ve done my share) I thought a positive thread might help with these winter blues so many of us seem to be experiencing.  So, I ask the question, What was your best day fishing?  It doesn’t have to be the time you caught the most or the biggest fish, just what was the most pleasant and enjoyable day you have spent on the water.

 <Ken’s story snipped but not unappreciated I don’t want to answer your question Ken.  I love to fish and cherish every opportunity on the water.  You might ask Michael Jordan what his highest scoring game was – that question has an answer.  Let me ask you this, what was the day that you felt you were the best possible man/lover/friend/human being in your relationship with your aforementioned   girlfriend?  Would you want to live your life or conduct your relationship in such a way so that an answer to such a question could exist?  I wouldn’t, nor would I want to fish like that either.  Not trying to pretend to be some sort of mystic, or wierdo or take on the aura of wisdom of some old guy looking back on his life with tinted lenses (I believe I am the same age as you in fact).  Just how I feel about fishin’ that’s all. Later dude, Mu Young Lee         ann arbor, mi, usa

Response:

Great story, Ken.  At least you didn’t show up for dinner with your clothes in disarray. My best day?  I’ve had a few, but the most memorable occurred last July in Labrador.   For the past two years I have been coaching my two grandsons. They are becoming good fly fishermen and I believe the bug may stick with the oldest, Jeff.  I took Jeff with me to Labrador. His eyes were bulging when the bush pilot told him to sit in the front seat of the Beaver on our flight to the river.  When we landed, his eyes got even bigger at the sight of such virgin, untouched country.  We quickly set up our rods, and we were off with a guide in a 40 hp Honda 4 stroke.  He brought us up- river to a spot I had fished the year before.  BIG brookies were rising about 30 feet from the boat, very close to shore.  I let Jeff have the first go.  The guide, Peter, directed Jeff where to cast, and Jeff did it perfectly.  His cast was just above the rising fish and exactly in the feeding lane.  I said "Now" to myself, and a big brookie came up and snatched Jeff’s Goddard Caddis.  He set the hook and away we go!  What a trip.  Jeff performed flawlessly listening to his grandpa but paying more attention to what Peter was saying. After about a five minute fight, Peter picked up the fish with his bare hand (no net),  took the hook out and released the 6 pound brookie.  I just sat there with tears in my eyes knowing that I had passed on to my grandson a very special moment. There were more fish that day and during the week, but Jeff still talks about that first fish and how he did it.  Jeff is only 15. This year, his brother Brian, 14, will go with me to Labrador. I hope we get Peter right off the plane! Dave "Pop Pop" LaCourse PS:  Oh yeah, almost forgot.  They have a sister, Danielle who is 9. I taught her to shoot this past fall and she too wants to fly fish.  It can’t get any better than this!

Response:

Great story Ken. I wish I had a tale to tell about flyfishing with my wife. Years ago I built her a nice 8′ x 5 wt. graphite. Taught her to cast ( she wasn’t bad). But she didn’t take to it. Oh well my loss. As far as my best fishing day…there all best. Joel Axelrad

Response:

With all the negativity on this group as of late (I’ve done my share) I thought a positive thread might help with these winter blues so many of us seem to be experiencing.  So, I ask the question, What was your best day fishing?  It doesn’t have to be the time you caught the most or the biggest fish, just what was the most pleasant and enjoyable day you have spent on the water. I’ll start… My best day of fishing was probably late last fall.  My girlfriend and I were heading to the coast to visit her mother (no, that’s not the good part).  It was one of those beautiful fall days when the leaves are in the middle of changing colors, but it’s sunny and warm enough to not need a jacket.  We were driving along the highway through the coast mountains and she suggests that the water looks perfect for fishing and that we can be a little late (god I love her).  The water was relatively low and crystal clear, perfect dry-fly water. We pulled off the road and took the rods out of the trunk.  My trusty handmade 5 weight and "her" slow action 4 weight (it’s actully mine, but I’ve long since lost it).  We found a nice little stretch with a long slow riffle.  I gave her first choice on where to start, she chose the head of the rapids.  First cast, WHAM, a 12" cutt hits my stimulator.  I bring it to hand and smile because she’s glaring at me since she doesn’t even have her fly tied on yet. [For future reference, do not repeat these actions if you wish SO's to fish with you again] I think better about returning fishing and talk a bit waiting for her to finish.  She finally finished and we returned to fishing.  A couple more casts and I’ve got another cutt.  She’s starting to look a little down.  I tell her that they are feeding along the opposite bank just outside the faster moving water.  She suggests that maybe she’d rather fish at the tail end of the rapids instead, to which I happily agree.  Some time passes with no action when I get another cutt.  Now I know I’m in trouble, so I quickly release the fish, take apart my rod and head over to her.  She, thinking that I’m wanting to leave, starts to take apart her rod. I tell her, no, I’m done fishing, you just keep right ahead.  We talked about everything and nothing much at all, I made little suggestions on how she might improve her drift, but mostly we just enjoyed the time.  She forgot all about "trying" to catch a fish, and just fished.  Trying to make the fly drop softly onto the water, trying not to introduce drag, and that’s when it happened. A silver flash and then the sound of her reel’s drag.  It was beautiful (not the fish) and I wish to this day that I had had a camera.  After a bit of a fight, she brought in a NICE 15-16" cutt.  Had we not been heading to her mother’s we would most certainly have brought him home for supper.  Oh yeah, we arrived at her mother’s house dirty and sweaty, smelling like fish and three hours late!!! All in all, probably the best day fishing I’ve ever had.  :-)      - Ken

Response:

Question:

I’ve driven all over the country and seen some mighty fine independent outdoor shops. Long-time owner-operated, hardwood floors, hand-picked stock, great stuff, great stories, multi-generation shops. Let’s wake up folks. These shops are going the way of the dodo. The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area. Maybe go on drives to see these treasures! One selfish reason of mine to do this is that I haven’t taken a big road trip lately and I’d like to go revisit some of those great ole shops. OK, I forgot where some of them were. Of course, you know that outdoor sport shops aren’t the only disappearing dodos in civilized retail. Quality independent restaurants, hardware stores and bookshops are in the same boat. Maybe there’s a way we can rescue them all at once? Putting the word out about where there are can’t be a bad way to start. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture        http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore & forum

Response:

The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area.

My experience so far is that the typical chain store doesn’t carry the best outdoor gear… i.e. they will have Timberland boots but not Vasque or Asolo… But in Birmingham Alabama I would recommend Alabama Outdoor and Roger’s Trading Co.  I have to say, though, that one of my favorite things to do in Atlanta is visit REI, and I think they are a great place to get gear. cordwood

Response:

In the Dallas Texas Area, look to: Backwoods  (corner of Coit and Campbell roads, Richardson) <–also carry flyfishing gear, woohoo! Mountain Hideout Lover’s Lane, just a block West of the Dallas North tollway We have an REI in town, but I like these stores better, they go out of their way for you, whether you are asking for an expensive tent, a pair of $18 socks, or even $2 zipper pulls. In Dayton, Ohio, go to General Surplus, don’t have the address. — Matt Blickensderfer * A Grouchy German is a Sour Kraut! *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve driven all over the country and seen some mighty fine independent outdoor shops. Long-time owner-operated, hardwood floors, hand-picked stock, great stuff, great stories, multi-generation shops. Let’s wake up folks. These shops are going the way of the dodo. The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area. Maybe go on drives to see these treasures! One selfish reason of mine to do this is that I haven’t taken a big road trip lately and I’d like to go revisit some of those great ole shops. OK, I forgot where some of them were. Of course, you know that outdoor sport shops aren’t the only disappearing dodos in civilized retail. Quality independent restaurants, hardware stores and bookshops are in the same boat. Maybe there’s a way we can rescue them all at once? Putting the word out about where there are can’t be a bad way to start. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture       http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore

& forum

Response:

Question:

Hi, any of you guys out there have a design and instructions for a home made trout smoker.

A large home smoker is built most easily out of the carcase of a big appliance (e.g. refrigerator) which the smoke reaches underground through a tube (e.g. metal downspout) from a fire location 10 to 20 ft. distant.  This cools the smoke to the 100 deg. Fahr. desirable for traditional smoking.  You then have the trouble of keeping the fire going for long periods, 24 hours or more. For smaller capacities, electric smokers are sold in N.America (about $80.)  These hold fish sides up to about 16 inches max. For smallest capacities and immediate consumption, Europeans commonly use alcohol-burning smokers, as sold by Trowell, ABU etc.  These are portable thus good for streamside use, but seldom more than 12 inches long. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I like to use a bong or your standard, hippie-grade water pipe. The only drawback is that you first have to grind up the fish in order to fit it in the bowl. If you have a problem getting it lit, use a little nitro. You should be able to get some from a drag racer.

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If you have a problem getting it lit, use a little nitro. You should be able to get some from a drag racer.

Or go to a hobby shop. They use it for model airplane fuels. Bryce

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Dude… NO LIE, Man….toughest part about smokin trout is keepin it lit!

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I hope someone does as I’m running out of freezer space.

Running out of freezer space, eh?  That’s nice ya lo-life.  What did you pay for your fishing license and what has the stocking program cost us taxpayers and other fisherman in comparison, and what has it done to "your own" fishery?  I guess there might be a *slight* chance that keeping so many trout makes sense (like if the bait-fishermen were going to get them all anyways, or if the summer heat will kill these put-and-take fish that don’t belong there anyways . Let me guess, your from "PA"??? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks            A.P.

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I read an article once about using a cardboard box to make a makeshift smoker.  You took the bottom out and stuck sticks through the side to make a rack for the fish.  You had to be careful the whole thing didn’t go up in smoke.– Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail GO TO http://www.ccnet.com/~emh FOR FLY FISHING BOOK AUCTION – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I like to use a bong or your standard, hippie-grade water pipe. The only drawback is that you first have to grind up the fish in order to fit it in the bowl. If you have a problem getting it lit, use a little nitro. You should be able to get some from a drag racer.

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yeah, we built the pit-style smoker in the Boy Scout’s handbook one summer on a 4 week long camping trip…..got all the alder twigs for the fish, made a "hinged" door on our box, lined the pit with alder leaves, cut, split and fire dried alder and apple for making our own chips, the whole bit. I’m sure with a few modifications, it would have done a better job of smoking vs. cooking the fish…..but it did work pretty well.  one old feller suggested we dig an "outlet hole" at an angle down towards our pit so some of th esmoke could vent off- he said just slide a cover over it as th efire cooled down….awwh, what did he know any way….=8^) the earlier comment by the gentleman using the large appliance and his statement about the fire being farther away and the smoke being "piped over" to attain a lower heat is right on the button…don’t know if it was mentioned, but it IS IMPERATIVE THAT ALL THE FREON IS REMOVED FROM THE FRIDGE FIRST…..it can have fatal side effects.

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–snip– to attain a lower heat is right on the button…don’t know if it was mentioned, but it IS IMPERATIVE THAT ALL THE FREON IS REMOVED FROM THE FRIDGE FIRST…..it can have fatal side effects.

Actually, another important thing to remember, and it may not be important at smoking temperatures, is that the corrosion resistant coating they use on the metal shelves in fridges breaks down at elevated temperatures.  I believe it can lace the food with dangerous chemicals. FYI dunc — Please delete the "_remove" | "Virtue is more to be feared than from the username to reply. |  vice, because its excesses are not                             |  subject to the regulation of Thank you                   |  conscience." — Adam Smith

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–snip– to attain a lower heat is right on the button…don’t know if it was mentioned, but it IS IMPERATIVE THAT ALL THE FREON IS REMOVED FROM THE FRIDGE FIRST…..it can have fatal side effects. Actually, another important thing to remember, and it may not be important at smoking temperatures, is that the corrosion resistant coating they use on the metal shelves in fridges breaks down at elevated temperatures.  I believe it can lace the food with dangerous chemicals. FYI

My grandmother had THREE old ‘fridges next to her machine shed that she used as smokers for 25-30 years.  I don’t think she did anything but toss an electric element and some chips into a pan on the bottom rack; she certainly didn’t drain out the freon, or even remove the motors.  Of course she died of cancer at 90, so it might have caught up with her eventually.  The fish was pretty good though… -drl — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

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I hope someone does as I’m running out of freezer space. Running out of freezer space, eh?  That’s nice ya lo-life.  What did you pay for your fishing license and what has the stocking program cost us taxpayers and other fisherman in comparison, and what has it done to "your own" fishery?  I guess there might be a *slight* chance that keeping so many trout makes sense (like if the bait-fishermen were going to get them all anyways, or if the summer heat will kill these put-and-take fish that don’t belong there anyways . Let me guess, your from "PA"???

Oh, yeah. There is no chance that he could have put beef or chicken in his freezer. None whatsoever! Bryce

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Hi, any of you guys out there have a design and instructions for a home made trout smoker. I hope someone does as I’m running out of freezer space. Thanks             A.P.

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Question:

: What is the proper method for fishing the San Juan Worm? Put a real worm on the hook of the San Juan Worm for weighting.  Sink it deep.  If that fails to catch fish, dynamite always works. Relax…just a joke. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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What is the proper method for fishing the San Juan Worm? Floating line, sink tip, splitshot?

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Hi! I can tell you what the our guide on the San Juan told us about rigging for that river: At your floating flyline attach about a 6" section of rad Amensia in the middle of which you’ve attached a yarn strike indicator.  The guides prefer black poly yarn and the red Amnesia enables you to see which way your leader is drifting with respect to your flyline (it should make a 90 degree bend straight down at the indicator). Then attach 9′ of level 4X leader.  This is to provide the minimum resistance to the water and enbable the fly to sink as quickly as possible.  12"-18" above the end of the leader attach a size BB split shot.  Attach the San Juan Worm ( Glo bug, Wooley worm, etc) and then add another 12" segement tied to the ey of the fly.  (4X works, though I prefer 5X ) On the end of that tippet, put a size 20 or smaller Chirominid, Desert Storm, WD40, etc type nymph.  The idea here is that if the trout is attracted to, but doesn’t take the larger San Juan Worm, then maybe it will take the smaller nymph.  This was definitely true last week, where either fly by themselves wouldn’t work, but in combination, the trout was taking the smaller fly the majority of the time. These settings are for the San Juan river which has 4′-10′ deep holes and a moderate current.  I found that when trying to fish the very head of the pool, where the trout were coming up to pick of the incoming food, that I had to move the indicator closer to the the slip shot to get more reliable strike detection.  The rig is not the most elegant in the world to cast, but it does work.  I also cheated a little and put a 3 foot 3X "butt" section in place of the first 3 feet of the 4X leader to help it turn over when casting.  This is not an issue when you’re in a drift boat. Good luck! Stephen Wong – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the proper method for fishing the San Juan Worm? Floating line, sink tip, splitshot?

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On the end of that tippet, put a size 20 or smaller Chirominid, Desert Storm, WD40, etc type nymph.  The idea here is that if the trout is attracted to, but doesn’t take the larger San Juan Worm, then maybe it will take the smaller nymph.  This was definitely true last week, where either fly by themselves wouldn’t work, but in combination, the trout was taking the smaller fly the majority of the time.

Interesting.  I too use a varitation on the same strategy, with an attractor/non-attractor combination.  I’ll compliment the color of one fly with the other.  For example with a big orange scud I might use a tiny WD40 for the dropper.  On the other hand, if I’m fishing a red San Juan worm, I’ll choose an olive-colored scud for the dropper. — -Wayne Trzyna

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Question:

From root Fri Mar 26 08:16:39 1993 Received: from macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au by galen.med.Virginia.EDU (AIX 3.1/UCB 5.61/1.34) Received: from ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au by macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/1.1) Received: by ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/SMI-4.1) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics Status: OR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What is a flathead? Jit Keith Boyd writes: Damn, don’t they have dictionary’s where you are??  Or are you just too lazy to look it up??   Flathead Catfish – (Plyodictis olivaris) – a large yellowish brown-mottled catfish of the central and Gulf States.   Taken from Webster’s Ninth Coll. (and no they don’t meow, they have "whiskers") Keith And no, the "whiskers" won’t sting ya’…… unless, of course, you’re wading and fly fishing! bobby — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965

Yo Bobby,         You might want to post this since I can’t, i only have read access to the net, but I thought I might enlighten you about the Australian Flathead.         It is no relation to any catfish we have but is (if you know where to go) a rather large, good fighting and good eating fish, with dangerously sharp spikes on the sides of it’s  head that can rip flesh to pieces, so so much for the quote they won’t sting,         but if you ever get the chance to chase some of our flathead, it’s one of the best fishing experiences you’ll get down here. Rob McNaught. * I’m not crazy                          * Robert McNaught.                    * * is insane.                             *                                     * — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -From root Fri Mar 26 08:16:39 1993 Received: from macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au by galen.med.Virginia.EDU (AIX 3.1/UCB 5.61/1.34) Received: from ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au by macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/1.1) Received: by ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/SMI-4.1) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics Status: OR What is a flathead? Jit Keith Boyd writes: Damn, don’t they have dictionary’s where you are??  Or are you just too lazy to look it up??

*  Kieth:  If you are so damned hot with a Webster’s, learn how to spell.                      It’s "dictionaries" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flathead Catfish – (Plyodictis olivaris) – a large yellowish brown-mottled catfish of the central and Gulf States.   Taken from Webster’s Ninth Coll. (and no they don’t meow, they have "whiskers") Keith And no, the "whiskers" won’t sting ya’…… unless, of course, you’re wading and fly fishing! bobby — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965 Yo Bobby,    You might want to post this since I can’t, i only have read access to the net, but I thought I might enlighten you about the Australian Flathead.    It is no relation to any catfish we have but is (if you know where to go) a rather large, good fighting and good eating fish, with dangerously sharp spikes on the sides of it’s  head that can rip flesh to pieces, so so much for the quote they won’t sting,    but if you ever get the chance to chase some of our flathead, it’s one of the best fishing experiences you’ll get down here. Rob McNaught. * I’m not crazy                          * Robert McNaught.                    * * is insane.                             *                                     * — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965

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