Question:

As an "old school" fly fisher and UseNet user ( since 1995 ) I try to follow one simple rule. Leave any environment I use, as good, preferably, better than I found it. Thus I pick up litter, maybe help TU install a stream structure. I doubt that I’d find many here that would admit to doing otherwise onstream, i.e. intentionally degrading the fishing landscape. But, I’d like to suggest that THIS news group is part of your intellectual environment, and indeed, a part of your fishing one. Possibly, before pushing "send," a look around to see if your visit is improving the landscape, or intentionally degrading it, would make sense? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

<snip Possibly, before pushing "send," a look around to see if your visit is improving the landscape, or intentionally degrading it, would make sense?

I don’t see how this post improves my landscape. Quit shitting on my lawn. — HTH, Tim

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As an "old school" fly fisher and UseNet user ( since 1995 ) I try to follow one simple rule. Leave any environment I use, as good, preferably, better than I found it. Thus I pick up litter, maybe help TU install a stream structure. I doubt that I’d find many here that would admit to doing otherwise onstream, i.e. intentionally degrading the fishing landscape. But, I’d like to suggest that THIS news group is part of your intellectual environment, and indeed, a part of your fishing one. Possibly, before pushing "send," a look around to see if your visit is improving the landscape, or intentionally degrading it, would make sense?

As one of the worst OT offenders I suppose I’m honour bound to disagree.  Somebody used the pub analogy to describe ROFF, much better than your streamside one.  We are brought here by a love of fly fishing but once here, we are not bound by it. As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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no problem, I’m gone  …. enjoy whatever satisfaction you get from behaving so childishly there are lots of things I don’t understand, cyber-hate and bad manners is one of them,  but I can live without the understanding tight lines —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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<snip Possibly, before pushing "send," a look around to see if your visit is improving the landscape, or intentionally degrading it, would make sense? I don’t see how this post improves my landscape. Quit shitting on my lawn.

Uh, oh. I forgot the smiley. :-X Honestly, Larry, this group has been pretty much the same for the past year or so I’ve been watching and posting. All of the regular posters give valuable input – to someone. Also, this group is entertainment for many *because* of its anarchy. I have enjoyed the past few days of discussion between Peter and Richard regarding economics, but I’m sure some others may have been put off by the same. "One man’s poison. . . " — TL, Tim

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Looks like the environment just got MUCH better! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – no problem, I’m gone

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I just love advice from an anonymous poster.  The "old school" that I belong to use their names. Dave

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I just love advice from an anonymous poster.  The "old school" that I belong to use their names.

which he doesn’t subscribe. I do feel badly that I forgot the smiley, though. Before I started posting anything here, I lurked for several months and decided I had thick enough skin to dive in. If one assholish post from me was enough to drive him off, he’d better just be glad he didn’t get Wolfgang or Ken.  :)) — TL, Tim

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As one of the worst OT offenders I suppose I’m honour bound to disagree.  Somebody used the pub analogy to describe ROFF, much better than your streamside one.  We are brought here by a love of fly fishing but once here, we are not bound by it.

Although Larry’s sentiment is noble, I gotta go with Peter on this.   Not only is the pub analogy apropos, but it also extends to ffing itself, at least the way I do it.   When I hit the rivers, I’m not there just to fish; but also to smoke some fine cigars, drink some good whisky, take a few pictures, watch the birds, shoot the shit with my fishing buddy, and maybe learn a thing or two.   Fly fishing is only the baseline. The only other fault I’d find with the suggestion is that those who are inclined to behave civilly already do so, and chronic sociopaths will not likely be swayed by another chorous of Cumbayah. Joe F.

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[snip] As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters.

You must be using IE

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As one of the worst OT offenders I suppose I’m honour bound to disagree.  Somebody used the pub analogy to describe ROFF, much better than your streamside one.  We are brought here by a love of fly fishing but once here, we are not bound by it. Although Larry’s sentiment is noble, I gotta go with Peter on this.

<snip IMO, I have the feeling the sentiment was not noble, but an effort to stir the pot. When tracing the IP address from Larry’s posts, the trace goes through the normal hops and then bounces back and forth between two servers indefinitely. Maybe this is normal in some circumstances, but I’ve not seen it before. Can anyone from geekdom shed some light? — TL, Tim

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IMO, I have the feeling the sentiment was not noble, but an effort to stir the pot.

Could be, I suppose.   I initially assumed that "Larry" was Dub’s owner, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. Joe (geekly deficient) F.

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….those who are inclined to behave civilly already do so, and chronic sociopaths will not likely be swayed by another chorous of Cumbayah. Joe F.

Oh, I don’t know about that…..sing it for me one more time.     Wolfgang c’mon….let’s all hold hands this time!

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[snip] As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters. You must be using IE

Hmm….You probably meant OE… And Peter’s using Agent. /daytripper (An old version at that. Time to update, Peter, we’re up to 1.92!)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters. You must be using IE Hmm….You probably meant OE… And Peter’s using Agent. /daytripper (An old version at that. Time to update, Peter, we’re up to 1.92!)

(nasal whine mode on) But I like my Agent the way it is. Do I have to huh, huh? (nasal whine mode off) (bad things always happen when I get updated) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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And all sing along Wolfie you start i follow.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] As far as the cross-posting trolls are concerned, that’s why the Lord made kill filters. You must be using IE Hmm….You probably meant OE… And Peter’s using Agent. /daytripper (An old version at that. Time to update, Peter, we’re up to 1.92!) (nasal whine mode on) But I like my Agent the way it is. Do I have to huh, huh? (nasal whine mode off) (bad things always happen when I get updated)

Going from 1.8-something to the current version was painless, Peter. No worries… /daytripper (Two words to the paranoid: "Drive Image".

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Question:

  When the fight was finally over, I had a mullet in my hands that tipped the scales at 5lbs.  Hooked two more but they escaped.  Don’t know if I will get a chance like that one again any time soon but it was quite a thrill.

Good for you Mu. I remember you mentioning the bread trick in the past. Now you know they will take a baitfish and just this knowledge might result in future success.  Are these the same mullet they have in Florida? I remember John Popp posting about fishing for them in Florida. Willi

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve heard that mullet are basically vegetarian in their diet preferences. They consume mostly detritus and kelp.  Throwing bread repeatedly over the course of several days can result in a hookup if a "bread" fly is used once the fish have become accustomed to eating the bread.  Today I came upon a school of mullet that were chasing batifish in the near shore surf. A wave would surge and a school of mullet looking like a horde of surfers could be seen as the wave crested high enough so that light would shine through the aqueous column.  Still, I didn’t expect to hook any but I was hoping that maybe there were other predatory fish lurking about that might hit my fly.  I cast a #4 burnt-orange llama/red-fox squirrel tail/white bucktail clouser into the school of bait and hooked up with a very stong fish. I managed to get it into the shallow water about 15 times before I finally landed it.  This fish made 15 runs!  I thought I had hooked what might’ve been a world record (fly-caught) corbina.  When the fight was finally over, I had a mullet in my hands that tipped the scales at 5lbs.  Hooked two more but they escaped.  Don’t know if I will get a chance like that one again any time soon but it was quite a thrill. Mu

If the mullet were actually chasing baitfish, it would seem that they’re not hard-core vegans after all, in which case a future hookup wouldn’t seem so unlikely… /daytripper (With a name change, Mullet could hit the big time!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard that mullet are basically vegetarian in their diet preferences. They consume mostly detritus and kelp.  Throwing bread repeatedly over the course of several days can result in a hookup if a "bread" fly is used once the fish have become accustomed to eating the bread.  Today I came upon a school of mullet that were chasing batifish in the near shore surf. A wave would surge and a school of mullet looking like a horde of surfers could be seen as the wave crested high enough so that light would shine through the aqueous column.  Still, I didn’t expect to hook any but I was hoping that maybe there were other predatory fish lurking about that might hit my fly.  I cast a #4 burnt-orange llama/red-fox squirrel tail/white bucktail clouser into the school of bait and hooked up with a very stong fish. I managed to get it into the shallow water about 15 times before I finally landed it.  This fish made 15 runs!  I thought I had hooked what might’ve been a world record (fly-caught) corbina.  When the fight was finally over, I had a mullet in my hands that tipped the scales at 5lbs.  Hooked two more but they escaped.  Don’t know if I will get a chance like that one again any time soon but it was quite a thrill. Mu

are you sure they weren’t baby tarpon?

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Well done Mu.  Our mullet behave abominably at times. Racing after Clousers looking for all the world like they are going to take, then turn away. Thats during the summer.  During winter they do hit flys quite readily – I think there are a lot less people feeding them bread in winter . Our attempts with bread flies have been pretty ordinary so far with losts of interest but no takers … we put it down to drag in the areas we fish … rocky platform above a reasonable swell isn’t exactly dead-drift water Steve  

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If the mullet were actually chasing baitfish, it would seem that they’re not hard-core vegans after all, in which case a future hookup wouldn’t seem so unlikely… /daytripper (With a name change, Mullet could hit the big time!

Actually this is a very good point.  If bait slingers can catch them on surf gear (or whatever) using local bait species, then the mullet should, in theory, be susceptible to flies.  I guess it depends whether its smell or sight that triggers the take.  We also wondered about their spawning habits and whether this meant they were more like to hit out of aggression (in winter for us). Steve.

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Mu, I had always heard that mullet didn’t take bait.But my experiences tell me other wise.    About 12 years ago i was nightfishing for crappie at a nearby resovoier (drinking water storage , about a mile from Galveston Bay) when i glimpsed shapes that i took for schooling catfish. A better look as they came into my lights showed them to be mullet. At about that time i begain seeing mayflies everywhere around the lights and on the water, the crappie weren’t biting so i got out my flyrod and tied on the closest thing i had. No luck at first but the third or fourth pattern did the trick.not once but 5 or 6 timesbefore they quit biting and went elsewhere. I have tried for years to catch another, but so far zip,zilch, nada, nothing. One magic moment on one magic night. But you are right they do put up a fight that will suprise you.  Keep tring and good luck. Gary "still growing older…but not growing up" I’ve heard that mullet are basically vegetarian in their diet preferences. They consume mostly detritus and kelp.

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I cast a #4 burnt-orange llama/red-fox squirrel tail/white bucktail clouser into the school of bait and hooked up with a very stong fish. I managed to get it into the shallow water about 15 times before I finally landed it.  This fish made 15 runs!  I thought I had hooked what might’ve been a world record (fly-caught) corbina.  When the fight was finally over, I had a mullet in my hands that tipped the scales at 5lbs.  Hooked two more but they escaped.  Don’t know if I will get a chance like that one again any time soon but it was quite a thrill. Mu

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Good for you Mu. I remember you mentioning the bread trick in the past. Now you know they will take a baitfish and just this knowledge might result in future success.  Are these the same mullet they have in Florida? I remember John Popp posting about fishing for them in Florida.

Not sure if these are the same.  The ones we have here are striped mullet. I’ve seen them go airborne frequently and always wondered what it would be like to hook one.  I just figured it was so unlikely that I never bothered. For some reason they were behaving in a very predatory fashion today.  Back east, mullet are used as bluefish bait. Mu

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard that mullet are basically vegetarian in their diet preferences. They consume mostly detritus and kelp.  Throwing bread repeatedly over the course of several days can result in a hookup if a "bread" fly is used once the fish have become accustomed to eating the bread.  Today I came upon a school of mullet that were chasing batifish in the near shore surf. A wave would surge and a school of mullet looking like a horde of surfers could be seen as the wave crested high enough so that light would shine through the aqueous column.  Still, I didn’t expect to hook any but I was hoping that maybe there were other predatory fish lurking about that might hit my fly.  I cast a #4 burnt-orange llama/red-fox squirrel tail/white bucktail clouser into the school of bait and hooked up with a very stong fish. I managed to get it into the shallow water about 15 times before I finally landed it.  This fish made 15 runs!  I thought I had hooked what might’ve been a world record (fly-caught) corbina.  When the fight was finally over, I had a mullet in my hands that tipped the scales at 5lbs.  Hooked two more but they escaped.  Don’t know if I will get a chance like that one again any time soon but it was quite a thrill. Mu

Here in the Netherlands, lacking most of the offical ‘gamefish’, mullet are more and more regarded as the poor mans bonefish. From what I heard from other fishermen they should be catchable with a weedfly, basically a hook with a bunch of green marabou. Colour and shade to match the local weed variety, match the hatch . I tried to catch them a couple of times, but no luck (yet!). When they are not actively feeding they can be hard to spot, and _very_ easily spooked by flylines. YMMV, of course.. Herman —         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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In article <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203260224520.2990-100000 Back east, mullet are used as bluefish bait.

yeah, but the only ones I’ve seen are in the 5-7" range, not 5-7lb. range!!!

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If the mullet were actually chasing baitfish, it would seem that they’re not hard-core vegans after all, in which case a future hookup wouldn’t seem so unlikely…

It’s rare that I’ve seen this many baitfish so close to shore. /daytripper (With a name change, Mullet could hit the big time!

Moollet the dogs out! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!

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are you sure they weren’t baby tarpon?

I’ll post a pic once I develop the film. Mu I need to get a digital camera

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Our attempts with bread flies have been pretty ordinary so far with losts of interest but no takers … we put it down to drag in the areas we fish … rocky platform above a reasonable swell isn’t exactly dead-drift water

The waves were gnarled and tortured in the area I was fishing.  I actually tried using an intermediate line for a while since the baitfish were just a few inches below the surface.  For some reason, using a fast sinking line worked out better.  We only hooked up when we tossed our flies right into the fray.  It was sight fishing, only not to a particular fish.  I’d wait for a swell where I could see the fish and then try to quickly cast to the spot.  It was important not to overshoot the line.  I think the sinking line allowed our flies to be distinguishable from the bait. Mu

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You have a better chance than you may think to take that wild ride again. When mullet are actively feeding in quieter waters they are easily caught. The secret is chumming. Get a bag of chicken scratch feed (small pellets not grain), grab a handful, wet it forming a cohesive ball, squeezing excess water out. Throw the ball out into the water. The mullet will come running and form a feeding frenzy. Cast any wetted (so it sinks slowly) brown, small, dry fly into the middle of the feeding fish and hang on. They seem to be seasonable feeders so a hookup out of season is uncommon. Their mouth is very weak and tear easily. Their runs are strong long and reel screaming fast. Not unlike bone fish. A good size mullet on a 3 to 5 wt fly rod (as you already know) is a ball. Keep trying, it’s worth it. — John Popp in Sanford Fl. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard that mullet are basically vegetarian in their diet preferences. They consume mostly detritus and kelp.  Throwing bread repeatedly over the course of several days can result in a hookup if a "bread" fly is used once the fish have become accustomed to eating the bread.  Today I came upon a school of mullet that were chasing batifish in the near shore surf. A wave would surge and a school of mullet looking like a horde of surfers could be seen as the wave crested high enough so that light would shine through the aqueous column.  Still, I didn’t expect to hook any but I was hoping that maybe there were other predatory fish lurking about that might hit my fly.  I cast a #4 burnt-orange llama/red-fox squirrel tail/white bucktail clouser into the school of bait and hooked up with a very stong fish. I managed to get it into the shallow water about 15 times before I finally landed it.  This fish made 15 runs!  I thought I had hooked what might’ve been a world record (fly-caught) corbina.  When the fight was finally over, I had a mullet in my hands that tipped the scales at 5lbs.  Hooked two more but they escaped.  Don’t know if I will get a chance like that one again any time soon but it was quite a thrill. Mu

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I had always heard that mullet didn’t take bait.But my experiences tell me other wise. I have tried for years to catch another, but so far zip,zilch, nada, nothing. One magic moment on one magic night.

Yeah, I’m wondering if this is only a once a year sort of thing.  I rarely see so many baitfish within casting distance.  Usually the baitfish are beyond the breakers.  I’d need a 400 ft cast to reach the area where the pelicans are divebombing into the water. Mu

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Everything that’s being said make them sound alot like carp ("freshwater bonefish").

Yes.  In fact sounds very similar.  The fish actually looks like a large minnow.  The ones we have here have stripes faintly reminiscent of striped bass. It’s cool you chanced upon some actively feeding mullet (on active prey), but if they are like carp, it might be a few years before it happens again.

The other option is a long leader and a kelp fly on floating line.  The likelihood of one taking a kelp fly when there’s so much of the natural stuff floating around is minimal. Mu

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Cast any wetted (so it sinks slowly) brown,

We tried several different flies but you’re right, brown definitely seemed to trigger the best response even though these fish were chasing baitfish. A good size mullet on a 3 to 5 wt fly rod (as you already know) is a ball

I was using a Scott STS 9 wt saltwater rod with a 12 lb tippet.  In protected waters a 5 or 6 weight would probably have been adequate.  In fact, considering their reputation for being easily spooked, a light line may in fact be necessary when fishing for them in harbors and estuaries. Mu

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are you sure they weren’t baby tarpon? I’ll post a pic once I develop the film. Mu I need to get a digital camera

…my elbow is lactating in anticipation of the suckle of your photos…. jeff (well, the catholic priest thing is gettin old)

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…my elbow is lactating in anticipation of the suckle of your photos…. jeff (well, the catholic priest thing is gettin old)

And you wonder why I didn’t want my socks back?  Jeez! Wolfgang man, that’s just WRONG!        :(

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I’ve only twice had carp "hit" an active fly, indicating they were interested in feeding on something that might get away. Mostly they’re just sucking up whatever is around if it smells good or looks good or whatever else goes through their pea-brain. Very challenging to catch.

If you don’t regard it as unethical (I would, but that’s because I’d not want to eat a carp and I’d feel bad about catching them on purpose), you could try chumming for them with commercial popcorn. I’ve fed them sometimes and they’ll get darn near up to my hand for the stuff.  Chum first and then drop in a floating line with popcorn on the hook.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Now you’re on to it (gear wise). I fish for them in the inter coastal waterway but at certain times of the year they come up the St.Johns river almost to the head waters.At these times the banks are wall to wall fishermen with all kinds of gear including cane poles. In my case a 3wt fly rod. — John Popp in Sanford Fl. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cast any wetted (so it sinks slowly) brown, We tried several different flies but you’re right, brown definitely seemed to trigger the best response even though these fish were chasing baitfish. A good size mullet on a 3 to 5 wt fly rod (as you already know) is a ball I was using a Scott STS 9 wt saltwater rod with a 12 lb tippet.  In protected waters a 5 or 6 weight would probably have been adequate.  In fact, considering their reputation for being easily spooked, a light line may in fact be necessary when fishing for them in harbors and estuaries. Mu

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And you wonder why I didn’t want my socks back?  Jeez! Wolfgang man, that’s just WRONG!        :(

shh…i’m workin the boots angle now, maybe a rod and reel.  socks were just an appetizer…  bring plenty of gear to penns. <g jeff

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When I was in Japan, we caught mullet on small shrimp. I was fishing for a different type of fish but on occasion we’d catch a mullet. Very smelly fish but well worth the fight. I imagine a small shrimp pattern would work. Tsuribaka

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If you don’t regard it as unethical (I would, but that’s because I’d not want to eat a carp and I’d feel bad about catching them on purpose), you could try chumming for them with commercial popcorn. I’ve fed them sometimes and they’ll get darn near up to my hand for the stuff.  Chum first and then drop in a floating line with popcorn on the hook.

My friend said he caught many carp from the Colorado River on a 6 wt while staying at a casino in Laughlin, Nevada.  Apparently, the fish are so used to guests throwing popcorn that a white fly would get attacked immediately. Mu

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When I was in Japan, we caught mullet on small shrimp. I was fishing for a different type of fish but on occasion we’d catch a mullet. Very smelly fish but well worth the fight. I imagine a small shrimp pattern would work.

These mullet didn’t smell very much.  Barracuda and smelt can be stinky around our local waters.  Here’s a photo www.umich.edu/~muyoung/mullet.jpg

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I’ve heard that mullet are basically vegetarian in their diet preferences. They consume mostly detritus and kelp.  Throwing bread repeatedly over the course of several days can result in a hookup if a "bread" fly is used once the fish have become accustomed to eating the bread.  Today I came upon a school of mullet that were chasing batifish in the near shore surf. A wave would surge and a school of mullet looking like a horde of surfers could be seen as the wave crested high enough so that light would shine through the aqueous column.  Still, I didn’t expect to hook any but I was hoping that maybe there were other predatory fish lurking about that might hit my fly.  I cast a #4 burnt-orange llama/red-fox squirrel tail/white bucktail clouser into the school of bait and hooked up with a very stong fish. I managed to get it into the shallow water about 15 times before I finally landed it.  This fish made 15 runs!  I thought I had hooked what might’ve been a world record (fly-caught) corbina.  When the fight was finally over, I had a mullet in my hands that tipped the scales at 5lbs.  Hooked two more but they escaped.  Don’t know if I will get a chance like that one again any time soon but it was quite a thrill. Mu

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Question:

Sounds like you finally made enough to bribe the Sheriff. Unka Bob

I’ll tell you one thing Unka.  I’d kill to fly that damn RV-3 of yours.  I have the "Hold Not Responsible/Release of Liability" document signed and notarized in my grubby little paw right now. Grandpa says it’s good (you know, Boom Boom’s dad…my main lawyer). Vito Lanuti (Boom Boom’s brother…my second in command lawyer) liked it too.  Didn’t change one word.  It says if I wreck it, my estate is to pay you your purchase price for it (plus your expenses for travel to pick it up and your time) and take possession of the wreckage.  So, you get paid off in cash if I crash it. I intended to go to Arlington and will be very unhappy on Friday that I’m not there….BUT, I’m going fishing in Utah on Friday , so I will have some fun. BWB

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The intrepid members of the Noon Patrol arrived at Arlington at 11:00 AM on Wednesday and by Noon had set up the Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine for display.  (Note to DS:  We used losts of Dcut tape).  We put a brief summary of our project and a couple dozen 8×10 photos on a bulletin board.  Then we sat in the shade under our official Noon Patrol awning and had cold drinks while we watched the crowd. By 5:00 PM today we had had several hundred visitors with comments and questions.  The comments ranged from "I wish I lived in Independence, OR" to "You guys are nuts."  The questions were usually "Do you guys know that lunatic that writes about the Dawn Patrol in Kitplanes?"  We always answered that "Dick Starks is to blame for everything."   – John Ousterhout, Mike Pongracz, Ernie Moreno, Dave Ruddiman, and Clay Kesterson –   – The Noon Patrol, EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   – http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/ Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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The Noon Patrol display at Arlington was a great success. Interest was very high as thousands — even a few of the rah ilk — took a close look at our fuselage and engine.  It should be very exciting next year when we fly 14 Nieuports to Arlington.   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/noon_patrol/jul_00/before.jpg   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/noon_patrol/jul_00/after.jpg http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/noon_patrol/jul_00/mike_and_john jpg We believe that we qualified for the dead grass award. We met a few other Niuport builders too.  Everyone wanted to know if Dick Starks is really as crazy as he seems in Kitplanes.  We told them that he’s far crazier than that.  After all, Dick’s our inspiration.  - John Ousterhout –   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11’s under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Indepencence, OR   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/ Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

The Noon Patrol will have a Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine on display at the EAA Arlington, WA Fly-In on the 6th, 7th and 8th. The Noon Patrol are 13 EAA Chapter 292 members who are building 14 Nieuport 11 replicas in the Independence Airplane Factory – formerly the EAA Chapter 292 hangar.  These are the 7/8 scale planes designed by Graham Lee and made famous by the antics reported in Kitplanes Magazine by Dick Starks and the Kansas City Dawn Patrol. At present the group owns all the airplanes.  When ready for paint, members will draw lots for the aircraft.  One plane will be sold at auction to raise money for EAA Chapter 292. Come by and take a look at our work so far and meet some of the maniacs who are building 14 Niuuports 11’s.  Feel free to insult us.  We know we’re crazy, but this is so much fun that we’re not sure that it’s legal. Not a week goes by that my Spousal Unit doesn’t say "Damn that Dick Starks!"   – John Ousterhout –   EAA Chapter 292   Independence, OR   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/ Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Oyterhouse.  Don’t get too comfy thinking about that bed upstairs at Ant Eater’s.  I may decide to fly the RV up there on Thursday just to screw with you all.  I had some good luck this week and made a dollar three forty…so I can afford to come.  It’s now a matter of the time. BWb

Response:

John H Ousterhout announced: The Noon Patrol will have a Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine on display at the EAA Arlington, WA Fly-In on the 6th, 7th and 8th.

Wish I could get there. However, at the moment I’m even more interested in the Independence Flyer.  As of a week or so ago, it had been nearly six months since the project report on the Web site had been updated.  Any idea what’s been going on with it? Oh, and what are they going to do with the Gypsy?  There was some talk about selling it off.  (Not that it will do me any good way out here in New Hampshire.) Many thanks. Owen Davies

Response:

The chapter 292 Webmaster is a lazy toad.  Someone needs to kick his ass and get him to update the web page section about the Independence Flyer. The Independence Flyer project was badly hurt when several members defected to the Nieuport 11 project.  However the Ultralight project contines, although at a slower pace. Our half-VW engine is running well on a stand.  The fuselage is complete and on the gear.  Tail feathers are complete as well. Wing construction is to start soon. Many of us do not want to sell the Gypsy,  We may hang it from the ceiling of our chapter hangar as a static display.  Others believe that it should be flying and are willing to sell it to a good home.  It is awfully cute.   – John Ousterhout –   EAA Chapter 292 Webmaster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John H Ousterhout announced: The Noon Patrol will have a Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine on display at the EAA Arlington, WA Fly-In on the 6th, 7th and 8th. Wish I could get there. However, at the moment I’m even more interested in the Independence Flyer.  As of a week or so ago, it had been nearly six months since the project report on the Web site had been updated.  Any idea what’s been going on with it? Oh, and what are they going to do with the Gypsy?  There was some talk about selling it off.  (Not that it will do me any good way out here in New Hampshire.) Many thanks. Owen Davies

Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I’m going to be there first to claim the bed.  You can sleep on the floor in the garage. If you do show up do you think anyone will give you a ride from Arlington to Ampmeters house? I’m sure your good buddy Zoom will be thrilled if you show up. He may be the only one that is. – John Ousterhout – P.S.  It was you my wife mentioned by name when she brought home the case of Arrogant Bastard Ale! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oyterhouse.  Don’t get too comfy thinking about that bed upstairs at Ant Eater’s.  I may decide to fly the RV up there on Thursday just to screw with you all.  I had some good luck this week and made a dollar three forty…so I can afford to come.  It’s now a matter of the time. BWb

Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Oyterhouse.  Don’t get too comfy thinking about that bed upstairs at Ant Eater’s.  I may decide to fly the RV up there on Thursday just to screw with you all.  I had some good luck this week and made a dollar three forty…so I can afford to come.  It’s now a matter of the time. BWb

Sounds like you finally made enough to bribe the Sheriff. Unka Bob

Response:

Sounds like you finally made enough to bribe the Sheriff. Unka Bob

It’s not bribery, it’s soft money political campaign contributions. Tom " election year" Cooper

Response:

Among other interesting comments, John H Ousterhout noted: Many of us do not want to sell the Gypsy,  We may hang it from the ceiling of our chapter hangar as a static display.  Others believe that it should be flying and are willing to sell it to a good home.  It is awfully cute.

I’d be sorely tempted to buy it (at a good enough price, of course) if it didn’t mean crossing the country at something slower than the average wind velocity.  It is awfully cute.  Those comments about what a nice flyer it is piqued my curiosity, too. Thanks for the info. Owen Davies

Response:

    hehehe,,,,,,                                     Scrappman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t think there’s any room left in the tub: http://www.cyberis.net/~jouster/gallery/hi_bill.jpg – J.O.- P.S. Have you learned to fly straight yet?    What about the hot tub party on Sat. night? Keeping that one to your self, John?                                        Scrappman Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

Response:

Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

Response:

    What about the hot tub party on Sat. night? Keeping that one to your self, John?                                         Scrappman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

Response:

I don’t think there’s any room left in the tub: http://www.cyberis.net/~jouster/gallery/hi_bill.jpg – J.O.- P.S. Have you learned to fly straight yet? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    What about the hot tub party on Sat. night? Keeping that one to your self, John?                                        Scrappman Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

Response:

Question:

Hi, Your best bet is to go to a Fly fishing show and pick up a C or ungraded neck there. A C neck will run about $65 and at the show you’ll be able to pick through the necks that they have there. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to spruce up some of my salmon and steelhead flies.  The only jungle cock eyes I’ve been able to find are a full neck for $135. Anyone know where I can find them cheaper? JR

Response:

… at the show you’ll be able to pick through the necks that they have there.

If it’s cheap ‘necks you want, might I suggest a NASCAR or WWF event? –Steve

Response:

www.myflyshop.com Michael and Young in British Columbia – I saw necks there for $82 Cdn. At about 63 cents US buys a Canadian dollar so it should be a good buy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to spruce up some of my salmon and steelhead flies.  The only jungle cock eyes I’ve been able to find are a full neck for $135. Anyone know where I can find them cheaper? JR

Response:

I want to spruce up some of my salmon and steelhead flies.  The only jungle cock eyes I’ve been able to find are a full neck for $135. Anyone know where I can find them cheaper? JR

Response:

JR writes: I want to spruce up some of my salmon and steelhead flies.  The only jungle cock eyes I’ve been able to find are a full neck for $135. Anyone know where I can find them cheaper? JR

Hunter has a grade A for 125 and a B for $100.  I bought an ungraded for $60 — it was the best of the ungraded they had.  They also sell them by the ten pack for $5.95 — you get to select the size, small, medium, or large.   They are at: www.huntersangling.com, or 1-800-331-8558. hth Dave

Response:

I want to spruce up some of my salmon and steelhead flies.  The only jungle cock eyes I’ve been able to find are a full neck for $135. Anyone know where I can find them cheaper? JR

yes, but they won’t be as primo quality, which is just fine for fishing flies.  dave quoted some prices, i guess they are pretty standard. there are some shops in the northwest that carry them if you want to stay local.  let me know and i can e-mail you a number or two of shops in washington state. cb

Response:

Hello cb, It is my observation that grading Jungle Cock necks is pretty subjective and varies considerably depending on the vendor.  Over the years, I have often seen second grade necks which were in my estimation better than first grade.  The most important consideration by far is the number of feathers of a useful size in the neck.  The second thing most people look at is whether the feathers are split or not and then maybe the color, which is the least important factor.  In my opinion, whether the feathers are split or not is not very important.  For actual fishing, the fish won’t care. For photographing or display, you can apply a drop of  head cement to the back side and tease the split together before you tie them in – the split won’t be noticeable unless someone is specifically looking for it. Personally, I would select a cheaper neck with split feathers over an expensive one with fewer but unsplit feathers.  For something as costly as a Jungle Cock neck, I would first look at as many necks as possible before buying and I would not buy by mail order because of the subjectivity of grading. Best regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to spruce up some of my salmon and steelhead flies.  The only jungle cock eyes I’ve been able to find are a full neck for $135. Anyone know where I can find them cheaper? JR yes, but they won’t be as primo quality, which is just fine for fishing flies.  dave quoted some prices, i guess they are pretty standard. there are some shops in the northwest that carry them if you want to stay local.  let me know and i can e-mail you a number or two of shops in washington state. cb

Response:

Question:

We got an early start on Friday; left Milwaukee at 2 p.m. and managed to find a campsite on the Two Hearted by about an hour after dark.  We looked like something out a Chevy Chase movie.  The Jeep Grand Cherokee had two bicycles strapped onto the rear windshield and a pop-up camper behind.  Jay, Becky, and I had enough gear and supplies among us to last us a great deal longer than the three day weekend we had planned.  This turned out to be a good thing as circumstances caused us to stay a couple of days longer. The High Bridge Campground north of Newberry Michigan has six sites.  We grabbed the first one we saw on Friday night and lucked out.  Site no. 2 sits at the top of a small sand bluff immediately adjacent to the river.  As soon as we got the trailer situated and the engine turned off we could easily hear the water gurgling below us; a most auspicious beginning! Saturday morning Jay and I hit the stream while Becky lounged in camp. We fished it hard for a couple of hours and then met back at camp to compare notes.  Things were not looking good.  Virtually nothing was coming off the water and the fish were in no mood to play with us.  I saw one stone fly, a couple of languid looking caddis, and no mayflies at all.  I found one small rainbow rising in a desultory fashion to something I couldn’t see.  He eventually fell for a well placed EHC and that was the last fish I saw.  Jay did a little better.  He managed half a dozen small rainbows on a bead head hare’s ear.  And this, it would turn out, was to be the most productive fishing session of the trip. Sunday morning found us exploring a bit further downstream.  We took a look at the East Branch of the Two Hearted.  The east branch is a bit smaller than the main branch and Jay found it more to his liking.  We drove a couple miles further up the road to look at Pike Lake.  I was eager to introduce Becky to belly boats and this looked like the place to do it.  We decided to take Jay back to the east branch and then putter around on the lake for a while.  We would pick jay up back at the bridge at 7 or so.  We never made it back to drop him off.  About 3 miles from the bridge I heard a strange noise under the hood of the Jeep.  We stopped and exchanged ideas of where the sound was coming from.  We all agreed that it was coming from somewhere near the top of the engine but that was the best we could do.  Half a mile down the road the power steering failed and by the time I stopped the vehicle the gauges were all over the map.  We opened the hood again and this time there was no doubt where the problem was.  The power steering unit had self destructed. Luckily we had a cell phone.  After a few calls to Newberry we found a towing service with a flat bed that would come and get us.  Unluckily, we were fifteen miles from the nearest paved road.  The wrecker took 3 1/2 hours to get to us.  The intervening time was spent trying to stay away from and to kill as many as possible of THE WORST infestation of horse-flies, deer flies, and those pesky little biters that look just like house flies I have ever seen!  At 95 degrees F., and 90 % humidity we had to stay in the vehicle because it was the only way to control the numbers of flies we were exposed to.  We could either chase them out or kill them with hats or towels or other makeshift fly swatters.  Outside the mob was too big.  Even a constantly waving towel couldn’t keep them off.  We all got many bites! To make a long story short, we had planned to return home on Monday but were forced to stay two extra days while waiting for a new power steering unit to find its way in from the civilized world.  The fish never did bite (water temps were way to high), the flies continued to bite, though with somewhat less vigor as the temperature and humidity fell over the next two days.  We had a couple of lovely thunderstorms and a tornado allegedly touched down with a half miles of us as we sat waiting for a pizza in Newberry on Monday night. Spent a day on the Lake Superior shore hunting agates and enjoyed a great deal more success in this venture than we did fishing.  Not much of a fishing story I’m afraid but it was at least an opportunity to get out of the city for a while.  Everyone enjoyed the outing despite the tribulations. For future reference, it looks like there’s a lot of good water in the eastern U.P.  Will have to give it another try in a cooler season, and definitely recommend the area to anyone who’s never been there.  Big forests, far away from everything. Tight Lines!

Response:

We got an early start on Friday; left Milwaukee at 2 p.m. and managed to

find a campsite on the Two Hearted by about an hour after dark. < <tale of terror and disaster snipped You shoulda fished the Fox. <g

Response:

We got an early start on Friday; left Milwaukee at 2 p.m. and managed to find a campsite on the Two Hearted by about an hour after dark. < <tale of terror and disaster snipped You shoulda fished the Fox. <g

With a ten year old Pathfinder ;^)

Response:

It really nice of you out-of-staters to come and feed the woods critters for us – Several years ago we hiked in from ‘Lone Pine Dump’ and had a great day of fishing – just follow the bear trail

Response:

Question:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule.

You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

Response:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10!

Great! But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages.

Ummm, you need to check out Mountain Gear more often.  Two days from now, saturday the 16th, Mad River is having a demo days on the Spokane river in conjunction with Mountain Gear.  M.G. also bring a lot of kayaks. Additionally, M.G. makes a weekly trip to the river to demo their boats…it must be tough being an employee there.  Get their schedule. Call them if you want a particular boat brought for you to try.  We are less than an hour from you; how have you missed this?

Response:

Well, I got home from Stanley to see my new Jive 8-10 sitting in my shop. Haven’t paddled it, but it looks like a great boat for a big person.  Similar to the Hammer (and about as roomy), similar kind of forward rocker, but more balanced bow and stern volume.  Doesn’t look like a squirter, but I’ll take it out and get back to folks. Thanks for all the input– though I ended up doing what I did, reading about all the different boats helped.  Looks like the 8-10 will be good for other big folks, and we can start having the fun without the misery that smaller folks have been having in some of the cooler boats. DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week. Chuck You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

– Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project 1031 Spring Valley Rd. Troy, ID 83871 208-835-2999 (Voice and FAX) Call before sending FAX To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

Response:

<<DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week.  Chuck New boats, before you paddle them, are just like the next generation of computer operating systems:  they will solve ALL the problems with what you are using now.  That is, until you actually start using them. -Ray

Response:

    After fifteen years of  K-1 white-water paddling, I’ve gone over…..Gone over to the Dark Side.  To please the Lady, the Light and Love of my life (but…hey that’s another thread) I took an Orvis fly-fishing course this weekend. There I was… standing STILL in a river that I have paddled many times. I couldn’t help but think about my boating-self sliding by my new found fishing-self and how both of us felt. I (boating) have always tried to be silent and circumspect when passing anglers. Courtesy and etiquette (yet another thread?) seem to demand nothing less. Tis a lesson to be learned tho…. to walk a mile in another man’s uh….hip boots.  Fishing for trout is as incredible complex as learning linked cartwheels and mystery moves. And, I found out this weekend, as addictive. It came as a small revelation when our instructor informed us that trout can be spooked by the shadow of a fly-line passing overhead. Made me wonder what the shadow of a nine foot boat must do. I asked our instructor what he thought of  kayakers. I was expecting a diatribe but he turned to me and said, "Sure looks like fun…. and most of um try to be real quiet, too."  Maybe there is hope for us yet!

Response:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule. But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages. We floated Lolo Ck., a classic Class IV-V run, 18 miles, one hour from my house, last weekend.  There was only one other party on the river– another group of friends (gloat). Gotta do the enviro thing this weekend (keep those rivers running free with actual trees next to them), but hopefully, I’ll be up on that big ole Lochsa wave, 360-ing away next week!  Stay tuned. Chuck — Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

Response:

Question:

writes: I purchased an antique bamboo fly rod recently.  It has a curve in on of the tip sections and I was wondering if anyone knows how I can straighten it without damaging the rod. Any help is greatly appreciated.

You have good advice in the previous responses, but another idea is to go out and hook a good fish and turn it so the fighting fish bends it back. A table leg  or other solid object to pull against can work too. The cheaper old rods will take a set just from playing one good fish if you don’t turn the rod around as you play it, and some can be bent back straight in the same manner. I have never tried this one but one aged geezer told me that you could straighten cane rods by hanging them from the tip eyelet for a week or so. Mark Vinsel www.vinsel.com

Response:

Hi,  In a book about rod building and restoration I read the technique of steaming the set over the teakettle and then gently bending and holding it in the opposite direction to the curve.  I tried it, and it "sort of" works, but I still hesitate to recommend it.  It’s kind of spooky for the fear that Patrick points out of weakening the glue in the rod sections.  If you rewrap and put on new guides, maybe you can put the guides on the opposite or "outside" side of the curve and maybe time and usage–or a good fish will help straighten it out.  Good luck. Jess Thompson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Kirkfield’s book also gives a good account of how to straighten. He suggests practicing some on rods you don’t care for.

Response:

In a book about rod building and restoration I read the technique of steaming the set over the teakettle and then gently bending and holding it in the opposite direction to the curve.  I tried it, and it "sort of" works, but I still hesitate to recommend it.

*snip* *WARNING*  Do **NOT** use steam to heat bamboo rods, particularly old bamboo rods.  Rodbuilders go to great pains to dry the cane (age it in dry conditions, heat treat it, flame it, etc.) and eliminate the moisture in the power fibers. The power fibers transport water throughout the cane while it is growing and will absorb moisture again very easily.  At best the rod may become "loggy", at worst it will seperate the old hide glues used on some of these rods. DO NOT USE STEAM!!!!!!!                                        Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

writes: I purchased an antique bamboo fly rod recently.  It has a curve in on of the tip sections and I was wondering if anyone knows how I can straighten it without damaging the rod. Any help is greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Steve Yoder

Hi Steve, Before trying to straighten these sets (curves) yourself, find out if the rod is collectable.  If so, have a professional do it.  Don’t try to straighten out a set on a Garrison, Gillum, Payne, Leonard, Orvis, F.E. Thomas, etc. by yourself. However, if it isn’t a real valuable rod, using an alcohol lamp like Dave suggested works.  Be sure you only burn de-natured alcohol in the lamp or it will burn too hot.  Put the cane in the top of the flame (not the bluest part) move it side to side and pull it out,  rotate it a bit and repeat.  When you get it heated to the right temperature the cane will move like clay in your fingers. If you don’t heat it enough, you will crack the fibers (you’ll hear that), if you heat it too much too quickly you will bubble the varnish and the cane will become brittle.  Go real slow and straighten the set bit by slow bit and it will work fine. A better way to straighten it would be to use a heat gun with a spreader nozzle as suggested by Wayne Catanach in his book "Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods". Better control over the heat and covers a larger area more quickly.   I have’nt tried that myself, but it makes sense.  Some have said you can use an electric hair dryer effectively too.                      Hope this helps,                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

I purchased an antique bamboo fly rod recently.  It has a curve in on of the tip sections and I was wondering if anyone knows how I can straighten it without damaging the rod. Any help is greatly appreciated. Sincerely,             Steve Yoder

Response:

I purchased an antique bamboo fly rod recently.  It has a curve in on of the tip sections and I was wondering if anyone knows how I can straighten it without damaging the rod. Any help is greatly appreciated. Sincerely,             Steve Yoder

I’ve used an alcohol lamp to slightly heat the fibers while working the bend in my hands. This will remove most minor curves. Good luck – be careful. — Best regards, Dave Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

Response:

I purchased an antique bamboo fly rod recently.  It has a curve in on of the tip sections and I was wondering if anyone knows how I can straighten it without damaging the rod. Any help is greatly appreciated. Sincerely,             Steve Yoder

I would try to identify the rod builder.  Depending on the builder, your bamboo rod could be worth big bucks.  If that’s the case I would seek a professional’s advice.  Otherwise, a small "set" in the bamboo shouldn’t alter casting ability too much and I wouldn’t worry about it.  If the set does effect the casting, I would again seek out a reputable builder’s advice.  The problem with trying to heat it up is that you could hurt the varnish or weaken the glue that holds the individual cane strips in place.  Good luck. Patrick

Response:

Question:

Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom

Congratulations on the first trout on a fly! Got mine last summer.  Went t some state parks in southeast Minnesota in mid august.  Caught my first on a #12 Wolly Bugger a 12"Rainbow. caught the rest – a total of 14 browns from 8-13 inches mostly on my own design— a kind of peacock and guinea soft hackle that looks like a small minnow when wet.  Don’t know what to call it. Biggest thrill was casting about 40 ft across the river at Forrestville, having a 12" brown jump out of the water with the fly in its mouth, run half way across the river to me and do a double flip 10 feet in front of me!  Talk about getting hooked on fly fishing!  WOW! I will be going back this year to MN or Wisconsen to repeat the fun! Good luck, Ken — Remove NO-SPAM- from return address to e-mail me. Sorry, but this is to discourage spammers and auto junk mail generators. Ken Wells "When In Doubt….Go fishing."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom Tom, Nice going with the first trout…I am also relatively new (<2 yrs) and enjoy hearing about people and fly fishing. Of course the next step done this road-to-ruin is fly tying….no rush, take your time, but getting your first trout on a fly you tird is also outstanding…. As you can probably tell, I’m consumed by this experience called fly fishing….if I only didn’t have to work…… — John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head (NO-SPAM in address to avoid spamming)

And I’ll bet that, just for a minute or two, while you were landing thiat first trout, you considered throwing away ALL your baitcasting and spinning gear.  Welcome to the Club!! Mac McCaskill

Response:

Trout hit my first two casts hard, and kept hitting every type of dry fly I used aggressively all day. I missed a ton of good strikes (sure could use some advice on setting the hook correctly),

Tom; You note that you missed these aggressive strikes.  That happens because (often) an aggresively striking wild fish is hanging-out under/around some current somewhere near the bottom.  He sees your fly (food) and shoots up, slamming the fly and zips right back down to the bottom as fast as a Rattle-snake strike.  Well, unlike a natural fly, yours has a leader attached to it.  I’m sure that you have noticed how much force water can exert on your line.  This happens with the fly.  The drag of the tippet can pull the fly from the fish’s mouth, or cause him to "spit it out" before you can set the hook.  I have noticed this a lot recently while fishing emergers during the sulfur hatch.  WHACK!… nothing. Jason Beary

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Congratulations on the first trout on a fly! Got mine last summer.  Went t some state parks in southeast Minnesota in mid august.  Caught my first on a #12 Wolly Bugger a 12"Rainbow. caught the rest – a total of 14 browns from 8-13 inches mostly on my own design— a kind of peacock and guinea soft hackle that looks like a small minnow when wet.  Don’t know what to call it.

A bug. John Fereira

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[snipped] Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday.

[snipped] Well done Tom!  Nice innitt? On a more serious note(!)  You are now in danger of becoming the best Definition: The best angler in the world = whichever angler at that given instant in time is enjoying themselves the most. richard

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Congratulations Tom, I too caught my first, a 14" Brown, on Wednesday in the Clear Fork river (Ohio).    It was a store-bought fly, but that didn’t make it any less exciting.   Like you, nobody around me has any clue what its like. Bob  

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Hi, Congratulations. I had the same problem,  so I bought my fiance her own kit,  now she joins me on all the trips,  and the best is that she is not using my expensive rods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Tom: <<Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. It is a "big deal". The outdoor learning process can sometimes be frustrating when there is no father, brother, aunt or uncle to answer your questions or share your experiences. So…, thanks for taking the time and sharing with us. Congratulations! Tight lines, Joe

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Congratulations, Seems just like yesterday … so many years now. Next will be that monster brown on a fly you tied.  Nothing beats the feeling of a first anything.  I don’t know about others on ROFF but there is still nothing like splash of an eager trout or the slurp of the grandfather of all trout. That’s just a feeling that never gets old. Corey http://www.ncweb.com:80/users/crbock/

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Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill.

Just wanted to drop my 2 cents in, too. I fished the Great Smoky Mountain National Park last weekend, doing some very deep, hike-in mountain stream fishing, and had the best day of dry fly fishing in my short (about 1 year) career fly fishing. Trout hit my first two casts hard, and kept hitting every type of dry fly I used aggressively all day. I missed a ton of good strikes (sure could use some advice on setting the hook correctly), but I did bring in an 11-inch wild mountain rainbow. My God, what a fish this was! Never seen that kind of coloring before. These fish are naturally reproducing, wild trout (even though their ancestors were imported to the area and stocked until the 1970s). Even so, this guy fought hard, jumped at least 12 times, and left me speechless at having takien my first wild trout in such a beautiful setting. For you Midwestern FFers, I have a story on FFing in the Smokies coming up in the summer issue of Midwest Fly Fishing magazine that provides local contact numbers and other information. E-mail me off-list if you want more information. Dave McCarty

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Hey Tom:

<<Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. It is a "big deal". The outdoor learning process can sometimes be frustrating when there is no father, brother, aunt or uncle to answer your questions or share your experiences. So…, thanks for taking the time and sharing with us. Congratulations! Tight lines, Joe

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Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom

Tom, Nice going with the first trout…I am also relatively new (<2 yrs) and enjoy hearing about people and fly fishing. Of course the next step done this road-to-ruin is fly tying….no rush, take your time, but getting your first trout on a fly you tird is also outstanding…. As you can probably tell, I’m consumed by this experience called fly fishing….if I only didn’t have to work…… — John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head (NO-SPAM in address to avoid spamming)

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Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom

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Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom

didja et it…? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

Sage blanks? Actually, you could save yourself some grief. Why? Because Sage will locate the location of the spine with removable white markings. I’ve built three SAGE rods and they all came with the spine marked out. The most difficult part is the coating. Try and get the FLEXCOAT package with syringes, cups and mixtures. There are two kinds of FLEXCOAT: one coat (thick) and several coats (thin). I’ve used the one coat and it works ok but for a more consistent finish, I would try the several coat version. Getting a slow rpm motor to turn the rod while applying the FLEXCOAT would help a great deal. If you can’t borrow one from the local flyshop, any BBQ motor will suffice. Not to worry, you’ll make a great rod! p.s. there’s a flyfishing digest on the net you could join.

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I’ve used the one coat Flexcoat building many rods and I like it a lot.  In order to make it a little more workable in  a large finish area, I dilute the finish mix with a small amount of Acetone.  It is very quick to evaporate and leaves me with extra working time in laying a great finish coat on all types of rods. The only pitfall is to make sure that you don’t use too much acetone or your flexcoat will never set up correctly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sage blanks? Actually, you could save yourself some grief. Why? Because Sage will locate the location of the spine with removable white markings. I’ve built three SAGE rods and they all came with the spine marked out. The most difficult part is the coating. Try and get the FLEXCOAT package with syringes, cups and mixtures. There are two kinds of FLEXCOAT: one coat (thick) and several coats (thin). I’ve used the one coat and it works ok but for a more consistent finish, I would try the several coat version. Getting a slow rpm motor to turn the rod while applying the FLEXCOAT would help a great deal. If you can’t borrow one from the local flyshop, any BBQ motor will suffice. Not to worry, you’ll make a great rod! p.s. there’s a flyfishing digest on the net you could join.

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Question:

Apparently they do not plan to sell the blanks….. SAGE isn’t selling their newer IV blanks either I wonder if the no-blanks-available strategy will work for the manufactures? Completed SAGE IV rods are running $500.00+   My response: the SAGE III blanks are good enough.

Right, why can’t the fly rod manufacturers see that they will price themselves out of existance.  When a new generation of PC’s reach the market (i.e. 486), the previous generation is reduced in price.  But when a new generation of graphite comes out, the older type graphites do not seem to have much of a price reduction. The manufacturers feel that a whole new higher price level is justified by the new generation material.  Only fiberglass seems to have comw down in price. Mark Miller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thomas Gilg

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Right, why can’t the fly rod manufacturers see that they will price themselves out of existance.  When a new generation of PC’s reach the market (i.e. 486), the previous generation is reduced in price.  But when a new generation of graphite comes out, the older type graphites do not seem to have much of a price reduction.

That is because a large portion of the price of a computer is engineering costs.  These costs can be amortized over the number of machines sold. After enough machines have been sold to cover the costs of engineering, the price can be reduced. Much of the cost of a flyrod is in manufacturing costs which are fixed per unit regardless of how many rods are built.  Building a good graphite rod is labor intensive. — -Wayne Trzyna

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Right, why can’t the fly rod manufacturers see that they will price themselves out of existance.  When a new generation of PC’s reach the market (i.e. 486), the previous generation is reduced in price.  But when a new generation of graphite comes out, the older type graphites do not seem to have much of a price reduction. That is because a large portion of the price of a computer is engineering costs.  These costs can be amortized over the number of machines sold. After enough machines have been sold to cover the costs of engineering, the price can be reduced. Much of the cost of a flyrod is in manufacturing costs which are fixed per unit regardless of how many rods are built.  Building a good graphite rod is labor intensive. — -Wayne Trzyna

True, but I don’t think that building a rod using a different version of graphite would be any more labor intensive. Mark Miller

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Right, why can’t the fly rod manufacturers see that they will price themselves out of existance.  When a new generation of PC’s reach the market (i.e. 486), the previous generation is reduced in price.  But when a new generation of graphite comes out, the older type graphites do not seem to have much of a price reduction.

Did you ever visit California? This is the state where when new car’s price sky-rocketing, the cost for used cars follow up too. Eric.

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Thomas Gilg writes: I wonder if the no-blanks-available strategy will work for the manufactures? Completed SAGE IV rods are running $500.00+   My response: the SAGE III blanks are good enough.

That’s going to be my response too !   BTW its official now the new generation  Loomis rods will not be sold a blanks.  They’re beautiful rods, light and shoot line like cannons.

Response:

Members of my local flyfishing club have had extensive problems with IMX rods breaking when dealing with Tarpon.

I don’t trust IMX or the regular Sage III  for rods above 9wt.  My ten and twelve weight rods are both the Sage three piece special designed rods for salt water a lot heaver in the butt.   Regarding rod failures, a guide I know on the Green says the outfitter he works for gets free sage & loomis rods and that they’ve had tremendous breakage.  Very thin cross sections and lots of hard use banging around in drift boats.  When the surface coating of a graphite rod gets dinged, a stress concentration forms at the already damaged point.  I’ve had good luck putting a little resin on the ding to fill the scratch.  The only rod I’ve broken to date is my favorite 5 wt Winston that I tried to use as a wading staff.  Winston shipped me a replacement but section blank and it’s still my favorite rod.

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Mark Miller writes: Right, why can’t the fly rod manufacturers see that they will price themselves out of existance.  When a new generation of PC’s reach the market (i.e. 486), the previous generation is reduced in price.  

As much as I’d like to agree with you, I can’t.  Neither Sage and Loomis can keep up with the demand.  The message from the market place is that there are plenty of people ready to pay, so I can’t blame them for using the blanks available for finished rods with a much higher margin.

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Mark Miller writes: True, but I don’t think that building a rod using a different version of graphite would be any more labor intensive.

A lot of engineering when into the latest generation of Loomis rods.

Response:

Members of my local flyfishing club have had extensive problems with IMX rods breaking when dealing with Tarpon.

        This problem is almost always the fault of the angler and not the rod.  When you have a Tarpon close to the boat and you’re really pulling on him, people tend to pull too far back on the rod.  The angle of the rod (angle between butt and tip — 180 degrees at rest) should not be less than 90 degrees.  If you pull back farther than that you’re no longer fighting the fish you’re fighting the rod.  This puts an awful strain on the rod (and the angler).  With the rod doubled over, if the fish should make any quick movements, which tarpon definitely can do, goodbye rod.  You get the most power out of your rod at an angle of about 90 degrees — you’ll land fish quicker (no hour long boatside battles) and your rod will last a lot longer. I don’t trust IMX or the regular Sage III  for rods above 9wt.  My ten and twelve weight rods are both the Sage three piece special designed rods for salt water a lot heaver in the butt.  

        I’ve seen a 150# tarpon caught on 11wt. Sage II.  I myself caught a 100# tarpon on a 10wt Sage III. Regarding rod failures, a guide I know on the Green says the outfitter he works for gets free sage & loomis rods and that they’ve had tremendous breakage.  Very thin cross sections and lots of hard use banging around in drift boats.  When the surface coating of a graphite rod gets dinged, a stress concentration forms at the already damaged point.  I’ve had good luck putting a little resin on the ding to fill the scratch.  The only rod I’ve broken to date is my favorite 5 wt Winston that I tried to use as a wading staff.  Winston shipped me a replacement but section blank and it’s still my favorite rod.

        The surface coating of a rod is purely for casmetic reasons. I don’t think it adds much strength too the rod.  On the other hand if you scratch the graphite underneath then I would worry. — |          307 SW 16th Ave #349 G-ville, Fl 32601             | |                Voice: (904)377-3807                         | |                  Fax: (904)375-0357                         |

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Just saw the latest in Loomis rods.  A friend of built a prototype 8 wt from their new next generation graphite. I’m building an 8 wt IMX and the difference was remarkable the next generation graphite was about the same size and weight as my Winston 5 wt.  Apparently they do not plan to sell the blanks, so I probable won’t be buying one in the near future.   The wall thickness is so thin I’d be worried about the design for anything above 8 wt.  I already switch to Sage’s special design for heaver salt water rods (10 & 12 wt.’s).  I use IMX for 6 and 8 wt rods.  I love to cast the IMX 6 wt but seldom fish it, for trout I like my 3, 5 & 7 wt. Winston’s.   The seven is a dream for bass bugs.

Response:

Apparently they do not plan to sell the blanks…..

SAGE isn’t selling their newer IV blanks either I wonder if the no-blanks-available strategy will work for the manufactures? Completed SAGE IV rods are running $500.00+   My response: the SAGE III blanks are good enough. Thomas Gilg

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The wall thickness is so thin I’d be worried about the design for anything above 8 wt.  I already switch to Sage’s special design for heaver salt water rods (10 & 12 wt.’s).  I use IMX for 6 and 8 wt rods.  I love to cast the IMX 6 wt but seldom fish it, for trout I like my 3, 5 & 7 wt. Winston’s.   The seven is a dream for bass bugs.

Members of my local flyfishing club have had extensive problems with IMX rods breaking when dealing with Tarpon. So much so that the consensus is to fish IM6 rods in this situation. I have not heard of any problems with Sage rods. An interesting side point is that a member broke a rod (Lamiglass IM700) when the clouser minnow he was casting collided with the rod. Lucky thing, these rods have replacement guarantees or there would be a ton of crying. I have broken several graphite rods for no apparent reason while casting or fishing. It appears to be caused by graphite flaws and the brittleness of the material.

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| SAGE isn’t selling their newer IV blanks either | | I wonder if the no-blanks-available strategy will work for the manufactures? | Completed SAGE IV rods are running $500.00+   My response: the SAGE III blanks | are good enough. | | Thomas Gilg | Well they probably are.  But that’s the funny thing about flyfishing equipment.  My $50.00 Cortland rods are "good enough." As far as the strategy goes I can tell you that few shops have any selection of Sage IV ’s at all.  The three or four Sage dealers I’ve talked to here in the east and a few in out west say they can’t get ‘em from Sage and when they do get a few they sell right out.   I believe it.  I know I’m crazy but I bought one anyway about a month ago — I bought the three piece 590 travel rod.   I fished it for a week on the Snake in Jackson Hole and on the Henry’s Fork.  Now I’m not a great caster (I can’t throw a whole line) but I have to say this rod is incredible.  The best I can do is to say it feels like its alive.  A very distinctive feel and I’m getting ten extra feet or more out of it.  Other rods I own include a Winston a Sage III and two Cortland’s.  If it was only distance I was after I might have been better off investing in a casting clinic but I really like the rod. Jim Caldwell Norfolk, VA

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SAGE isn’t selling their newer IV blanks either

I am told by the Sage representative in Norway that there will be available blanks of RPL IV next year. By the way, the company has not produced enough IV rods this year to cover the demand. –Terje Tveras, Univ. of Bergen, Norway

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