Question:

Mike,   I think I was in Charlotte, coming from Miami heading for Dayton….no wait a minute I was in Miami. Anyhow, transferred in Charlotte and left for Dayton. Anyhow, when I left Miami, I could see my bags and rod case on the cart. The plane was full and my bags and rod case did not get loaded. they were left in Miami. My bags and rod case were on the turnstile when I got to Dayton. This causes a pain between my ears which I do not understand. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW

Um…Right now, I’d recommend doing absolutely nothing that gives very jumpy airport security crews reason to give one any "special attention". A member of my design team was virtually strip-searched yesterday in Denver while changing planes on his way to San Jose, apparently the unlucky winner of a random selection process… /daytripper (He decidedly did not enjoy the experience)

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I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!

Perhaps it’s not wise to publicize even the possibility in a public forum, but there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.   JR

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… there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.

I thought Waldo had his old waders carted off to a Superfund Site. — Ken Fortenberry- pray that bin Laden never gets his hands on Waldo’s waders

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Several years ago my company was working on a project in Venezuela.  Fed-X subcontracts delivery.  It took two weeks for them to get a package there.  DHL was much better, however customs in Venezuela is always a crap shoot. Things do not understand drive them nuts.   Put the hooks/flys in checked baggage if you really want any chance of them being there with you.  Have a great trip. Chuck W. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

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Thanks anyway.

It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

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I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks anyway. It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

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I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

Best of luck both traveling and fishing! — Charlie…

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I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!   Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim

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Good idea, but the place I’m going to is really out of the way, and I’ve heard that stuff often doesn’t get there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense. Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

I’ve never lost any stuff on an international flight, either (probably because I carry on).  But, during my last trip to Venezuela, one of the folks at the camp didn’t get his stuff until the 7th day of a 9 day stay. He’d been going done there for 10 years, but shit is bound to happen. Thanks anyway.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

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If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale,

We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Post 9/11 I went from West Palm Beach-Houston-South padre Isl for red fish. As my guide was supplying the flies, I just took 2 travel rod in aluminum tubes, and my gear bag (sans flies and knives).  However, I was stopped at the x-ray machine and my 51/2" forceps were confiscated.  Luckily I had time to bring them to the check-in counter and they kept them until I got back. I think that the bottom line is that we are all at the mercy of the examiners and not the airlines.  What may be one guy’s interpretation of a weapon, may be another guy’s harmless nose hair picker.  I think that I’ll just check the flies in a non-descript bag and hope they arrive in Caracas with me. By the way, I’m going back to a Peacock bass camp on the banks of the Cinaruco River (about 300 miles south of Caracas).  Let me highly recommend this destination as a place to go if you want a lot of action with al very tough fish.  My first time there, last year in January, I met up with 3 other fly rodders and for 9 days we boated between 20 and 59 fish/each per day.  They averaged around 5#, and I was lucky to catch the biggest of the trip, a 10 and 12 pounded.  This is not the Lake Guri deal.  It is more rustic, the food is good-OK, drinks on the house, there are all three species of peacocks int he water, the biggest goes to around 16-17# (the only negative for those who want the bigger fish).  I normally go to the Caribbean for sight fishing, which I will continue to do, but the action here was so good that I had to do it again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks,

I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

Adam, let me ask exactly where you are going… I’ve had no problems heading south, but the last time was before 9-11. Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, or maybe one of the narwhale things that made the mermaid legends.  Which, considering what the mores of society have been in the none to recent past and present, doesn’t really surprise me that there might have been a sexual attraction. I AM surprised that there was no viable offspring. john You could always send a package to the guide a couple of weeks before. They generally have good connections in town.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

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Question:

Since it seems my employeer is blocking post’s to UseNet – it is a little old but . . .

Neat report.  Sounds like you already had a chance to fly fish some quality water.  Tight lines. Mu

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Nice TR, Marshall. Sounds like you had a pretty good guide.

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Merced River:   This is the river that flows right through the middle of Yosemite, and gets heavy fishing pressure in the summer.  The guide I hired took us down below where most of the crowd fish.

Marshall, it was very close to there that I decided to take up fly fishing more seriously!  I had dabbled a little, but I was spinning on this particular trip to Yosemite.  I saw some trout in a feeding lane in a small clear pool, and there was no way I could catch them on my little spinner. It drove me nuts.  I decided then and there I was going to flyfish and next time I see some fish like those, I’m gonna get ‘em, dammit!  Fun trip.  I hiked down a trail (Tuolomne?) and ran into a couple guys camping who had a massive wild brown they caught on a Rapala in a deep canyon section.  Yup, different techniques are best for different conditions

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Since it seems my employeer is blocking post’s to UseNet – it is a little old but . . . My first TR, so here goes . . . Location:  Merced River – Yosemite National Park, CA            Off Hwy 140, 1 mile below the 120/140 stop sign Elevation: 4,000 ft Date/Time: Saturday, Nov. 4th, 2001 [11am-4:30pm] Pictures located at: http://homepage.mac.com/mkrasser/PhotoAlbum4.html This is still my freshman year of flyfishing, [I started last Aug. 2001 on the Big Wood River in Sun Valley, ID.  Followed by a trip in Sept to the Feather River [Ca], 5 weeks ago I was at Putah Creek, [Ca], 4 weeks ago the Russian River [Ca], and 2 weeks ago a trip on the Klamath River [Ca] (K.R. pictures included at above web location). A quick Mini-TR on the Kamath,  the Salmon fishing was hot!  BUT, since we were NOT using flies I will not detail the 20 fish we caught and released [barbless hooks and roe] we did keep 2 for the smoker. I will mention the Steelhead that we were targeting with flies in the fast water . . . I forgot to "bow to the fish" do I need to say more? I lost the nice 6-7 pounder (guide est.) when it jumped for joy.  I had another major slam that I missed [using a mossback fly] as well.  We did manage to catch/release several nice native trout in our quest for Mr. Steelhead [top lft picure]. Merced River:   This is the river that flows right through the middle of Yosemite, and gets heavy fishing pressure in the summer.  The guide I hired took us down below where most of the crowd fish. This was mega-pocket water!!!  This late in the year, the water level is rather low and is super clear [16 ft leaders, ouch].  Lucky for us, the valley received a light rain the Wed. before our arrival, so the system received a last minute boost before winter.  Anyway, we were climbing over bus size granite boulders and rock hopping cross-stream, to get the perfect angle for the pockets.   I should mention that I dragged my wife along on her first flyfishing outing this day.  I was hoping that I could provide here with a positive experience on this trip, but according to the guide . . . this time of year, and on this river, a PHD is required.  The guide was very hands on and worked with both of us to get the technique down, but he tended to want to do most of the casting himself [we could hold the rod under his hand, though].  Using this technique, he was able to get her hooked into a nice bright orange native male – I was too far away to snap a photo   Even on this cool November day [30's rising to the mid 60's] there was a Baetis and Caddis hatch happening.  When we arrived at the first pool, our guide went nuts – there were at least 5 trout rising to the hatch at the head of the pool and at least one was a brown.   He worked with both of us at this pool, and we both missed our strikes – we then headed up stream to rest these fish.  And found others just as eager to miss our flies as well. I could just NOT see the sz18 Baetis fly in the pocket water.  Cool a swirl, guide say’s ah that was your fly he was swirling at!   We then went back down to pool #1 for try #2 at the fish – same result.  So we headed back upstream again.   We climbed up on this huge boulder and butt dragged to look over the edge – wow TWO 18-20 inchers directly below us.  Hmmm the Guide forgot to warn my wife as to why he and I were moving this way . . . so she walked right up to the edge and said, "oh look – fishies", and they said, "oh look human – goodbye".  Luckly this boulder was so huge it was in 2 zip codes, so they crawled [see pic: guide w/wife] to the head of the rock, and worked that pool. They just could not get the distance needed from here, so the guide and I moved down to water level and I missed another nice one.   We split sides here and I headed to a pool on the left and they headed to what looked like a prime pool.  With the guide’s assistance, BAM – she hooked-up and landed the bright male [14 incher].  On that note we headed back down to pool #1 again [my wet leg and all <grin].   The fish were happily slurping up the emergers and this time I connected.  As my wife pointed out . . . mine was not as big or as pretty as her’s [whatever].  We then hopped in our 4×4’s and headed downstream to what would be prime pocket water for me.   The guide worked a little more with my wife on her casting, but he was not quite patient enough [in my opinion], and I could tell she was getting bored and frustrated.   She said, go on ahead – I’ll rest here – ya right . . . she whipped out her knitting from her backpack and that was the end of that.   The guide and I headed into the land of small pocket water [I was casting rather well un-assisted by now - the guide was surprised - I was one with the line].  Interesting note that probably has no bearing on my flycasting targeting – but I was a deadly bait caster from my Table Rock Lake days – growing up in Missouri – I could flip that plastic worm or jig-n-pig right were I wanted it in the fallen/flooded timber at rather great distances [no use here in California].   Anyway,  I pulled 2 nice ones out of the first pocket just above the main pool and missed another 3 as well.  We figured they had moved up out of the still water to feed.  I was using a caddis pattern [that I could see] for these puppies.   We moved on up to one more small pocket, and the guide made me call where the strike would occur [he nailed it exactly in the previous pocket].  I called it, but after 4 casts and no take – the guide said let’s go home – must not be there.  One more cast I pleaded and that one did it – right where I called it <grin.   As the light started to fade we walked back to our vehicles and called it a day, in this land of giant rocks and golden sunlight. Sorry for the length, Marshall

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Question:

One thing that rather surprises me about such discussions, is that we already have a very large range of very effective patterns, which catch fish most satisfactorily, when used correctly.  It might be possible to improve on these, although in many cases I doubt it.

Ah, but there’e the rub, or rather, at least two of them.  If one is buyng flies, and the seller is both knowledgable, and willing to share that knowledge, the purchaser may indeed wind up with the "correct" patterns and colors for the water in question.  However, if one is tying, then things get a bit tricky.  If one simply looks at what they see on or in the water, (or worse, simply look at non-POV relevant pictures of the thing they wish to imitate or simulate) and then look up patterns/color variants to match it to their eye, it may or may not be a match. It could get even worse.  For example, if they want a bi-visible, now there are two colors to consider, and the possible conflict of the sighting color.   I absolutely agree that the likelihood of there not being a printed pattern/variant recipe somewhere that will fill the bill is small, perhaps non-existent.  But, IMO, simply matching what you see to what you think you need is iffy at best, without keeping "what the fish sees" in your mind.  For example, a light-colored, lightly-dressed wet will, when viewed against a light background, look much different when viewed against the backdrop of a rocky lie or from below against a darkening sky, just as a similarly light-colored dry will when viewed from below against a bright blue sky, etc. TC, R

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Letcher Lambuth, in 1936, did some studies with Pacific coast salt water bait fish.  Using gelatin filters to simulate the top 20 feet of the water column, he observed that candlefish and herring looked far different in the water than they did in the hand.  He then designed the Lambuth Herring and the Lambuth Candlefish using the colors that he saw via the filters.  Note that he did not have the advantage of studies of the mechanics of fish vision. We know, for examples, that after a certain depth red turns black, that green is the last color to remain identifiable, and that flash (tinsel, etc.,) requires light to be of any significance.  However, this is to our eyes not necessarily to the eyes of a fish. With due respect to Lambuth, a true pioneer, it seems to me that we are better served by dressing our flies, when we are tying something that is meant to be bait specific, with colors as exact to our eyes as possible. Wouldn’t it stand to reason that colors X, Y, Z; properly porportioned to match a bait would be identifiable to a fish as that bait at what ever depth and conditions the fish was used to viewing it? I’d appreciate your discussion. Crusty

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[snip] This underwater view is very much the subject of Lafontaine’s "The Dry Fly."  He and his partner conducted quite a few scuba dives to see how <SNIP Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html Skues book is indeed first class.  If you want a modern view I would suggest "The Trout And The Fly. A new approach"  By John Goddard and Brian Clarke. This book is, in my opinion, one of the finest works ever printed on the subject, and covers the subjects you mention very precisely and thoroughly, with excellent photography. My English copy was borrowed by somebody, and not returned. Most annoying. I still have a German copy though, so all is not lost. The ISBN number is 3-275-00803-X.  This number may be specific to the German version, I am not sure. However, a net search should turn up a copy for you. I have still not got LaFontaine

Question:

I fish the manistee below m-72 when i can get the chance. I know the betsie much better though. I was on the manistee for the hex hatch this year. way too many bugs though. i didnt think i could ever be chased off of a river. mu i totally agree with you. I went onto steelheadsite and told everyone how i went to missouri and people that i met there told me that every one they met on their trip to michigan was arrogant. i no  longer wanted to be associated with fly fisherman. I just ignore it now though. if you are arrogant on the water to me. I will let you know. steelheadsite is a decent place. i met a guy off of there and he taught me a lifetime of things in 4 hours. great fisherman, great guy. dont judge everybody. but i do understand your prejudging of most of us fly fisherman. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fish it every year. Know a couple of holes where big trout and hexes go hand in hand. As to further info, see www.troutbums.com/forums. Info from my friends is water is kind of warm, going to do the upper mannistee Tuesday morning, near where some springs come into it. Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Upper Manistee? As in Deward area? I have a couple of buddies taht love that section, I have never been there with them and can never quite seem to find the right spot. Lots of pretty water though. Small but gorgeous. Let me know how you do please?

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Fish it every year. Know a couple of holes where big trout and hexes go hand in hand. As to further info, see www.troutbums.com/forums. Info from my friends is water is kind of warm, going to do the upper mannistee Tuesday morning, near where some springs come into it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Response:

Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

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Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers.

You should check out http://www.steelheadsite.com/reports/michigan/ After lurking there for a while you’ll figure out who the serious anglers are.  Try to get in contact with them.  Once in a while a biologist from among a few of the more trustworthy and non-idiotic regulars.  I used to try to post thoughtful stuff there but found that ROFF is a far better place for really interesting and substantive discussion.  As far as reports go, yes, ROFF ain’t such a great place for sharing info on your local streams.  However I did meet a wonderful gentleman named Wayne Williams here on ROFF and we went fishing up on the Manistee.  Capital fellow with top manners and Southern hospitality.  FWIW though, I stayed away from fly fishing for a long time because most (with a few exceptions) of the FFers I met afield in Michigan were real jerks.  During my time in Michigan I basically was a self-taught fly angler.  Taught myself to cast from books and videos.  Taught myself to tie flies and build rods.  Most of the FFers I’ve met so far in California have been extremely friendly, helpful and generous – to the point that it’s very surprising. Mu

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Went below the CCC bridge a couple of months ago. Very nice time. Lots of action even though the size left a lot to be desired. All went back in, so they are there for you to enjoy as well. Did do some FFing above the bridge but did not have as much luck. WLM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

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Question:

Sounds like you finally made enough to bribe the Sheriff. Unka Bob

I’ll tell you one thing Unka.  I’d kill to fly that damn RV-3 of yours.  I have the "Hold Not Responsible/Release of Liability" document signed and notarized in my grubby little paw right now. Grandpa says it’s good (you know, Boom Boom’s dad…my main lawyer). Vito Lanuti (Boom Boom’s brother…my second in command lawyer) liked it too.  Didn’t change one word.  It says if I wreck it, my estate is to pay you your purchase price for it (plus your expenses for travel to pick it up and your time) and take possession of the wreckage.  So, you get paid off in cash if I crash it. I intended to go to Arlington and will be very unhappy on Friday that I’m not there….BUT, I’m going fishing in Utah on Friday , so I will have some fun. BWB

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The intrepid members of the Noon Patrol arrived at Arlington at 11:00 AM on Wednesday and by Noon had set up the Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine for display.  (Note to DS:  We used losts of Dcut tape).  We put a brief summary of our project and a couple dozen 8×10 photos on a bulletin board.  Then we sat in the shade under our official Noon Patrol awning and had cold drinks while we watched the crowd. By 5:00 PM today we had had several hundred visitors with comments and questions.  The comments ranged from "I wish I lived in Independence, OR" to "You guys are nuts."  The questions were usually "Do you guys know that lunatic that writes about the Dawn Patrol in Kitplanes?"  We always answered that "Dick Starks is to blame for everything."   – John Ousterhout, Mike Pongracz, Ernie Moreno, Dave Ruddiman, and Clay Kesterson –   – The Noon Patrol, EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   – http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/ Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

The Noon Patrol display at Arlington was a great success. Interest was very high as thousands — even a few of the rah ilk — took a close look at our fuselage and engine.  It should be very exciting next year when we fly 14 Nieuports to Arlington.   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/noon_patrol/jul_00/before.jpg   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/noon_patrol/jul_00/after.jpg http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/noon_patrol/jul_00/mike_and_john jpg We believe that we qualified for the dead grass award. We met a few other Niuport builders too.  Everyone wanted to know if Dick Starks is really as crazy as he seems in Kitplanes.  We told them that he’s far crazier than that.  After all, Dick’s our inspiration.  - John Ousterhout –   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11’s under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Indepencence, OR   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/ Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

The Noon Patrol will have a Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine on display at the EAA Arlington, WA Fly-In on the 6th, 7th and 8th. The Noon Patrol are 13 EAA Chapter 292 members who are building 14 Nieuport 11 replicas in the Independence Airplane Factory – formerly the EAA Chapter 292 hangar.  These are the 7/8 scale planes designed by Graham Lee and made famous by the antics reported in Kitplanes Magazine by Dick Starks and the Kansas City Dawn Patrol. At present the group owns all the airplanes.  When ready for paint, members will draw lots for the aircraft.  One plane will be sold at auction to raise money for EAA Chapter 292. Come by and take a look at our work so far and meet some of the maniacs who are building 14 Niuuports 11’s.  Feel free to insult us.  We know we’re crazy, but this is so much fun that we’re not sure that it’s legal. Not a week goes by that my Spousal Unit doesn’t say "Damn that Dick Starks!"   – John Ousterhout –   EAA Chapter 292   Independence, OR   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/ Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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Oyterhouse.  Don’t get too comfy thinking about that bed upstairs at Ant Eater’s.  I may decide to fly the RV up there on Thursday just to screw with you all.  I had some good luck this week and made a dollar three forty…so I can afford to come.  It’s now a matter of the time. BWb

Response:

John H Ousterhout announced: The Noon Patrol will have a Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine on display at the EAA Arlington, WA Fly-In on the 6th, 7th and 8th.

Wish I could get there. However, at the moment I’m even more interested in the Independence Flyer.  As of a week or so ago, it had been nearly six months since the project report on the Web site had been updated.  Any idea what’s been going on with it? Oh, and what are they going to do with the Gypsy?  There was some talk about selling it off.  (Not that it will do me any good way out here in New Hampshire.) Many thanks. Owen Davies

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The chapter 292 Webmaster is a lazy toad.  Someone needs to kick his ass and get him to update the web page section about the Independence Flyer. The Independence Flyer project was badly hurt when several members defected to the Nieuport 11 project.  However the Ultralight project contines, although at a slower pace. Our half-VW engine is running well on a stand.  The fuselage is complete and on the gear.  Tail feathers are complete as well. Wing construction is to start soon. Many of us do not want to sell the Gypsy,  We may hang it from the ceiling of our chapter hangar as a static display.  Others believe that it should be flying and are willing to sell it to a good home.  It is awfully cute.   – John Ousterhout –   EAA Chapter 292 Webmaster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John H Ousterhout announced: The Noon Patrol will have a Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine on display at the EAA Arlington, WA Fly-In on the 6th, 7th and 8th. Wish I could get there. However, at the moment I’m even more interested in the Independence Flyer.  As of a week or so ago, it had been nearly six months since the project report on the Web site had been updated.  Any idea what’s been going on with it? Oh, and what are they going to do with the Gypsy?  There was some talk about selling it off.  (Not that it will do me any good way out here in New Hampshire.) Many thanks. Owen Davies

Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I’m going to be there first to claim the bed.  You can sleep on the floor in the garage. If you do show up do you think anyone will give you a ride from Arlington to Ampmeters house? I’m sure your good buddy Zoom will be thrilled if you show up. He may be the only one that is. – John Ousterhout – P.S.  It was you my wife mentioned by name when she brought home the case of Arrogant Bastard Ale! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oyterhouse.  Don’t get too comfy thinking about that bed upstairs at Ant Eater’s.  I may decide to fly the RV up there on Thursday just to screw with you all.  I had some good luck this week and made a dollar three forty…so I can afford to come.  It’s now a matter of the time. BWb

Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Oyterhouse.  Don’t get too comfy thinking about that bed upstairs at Ant Eater’s.  I may decide to fly the RV up there on Thursday just to screw with you all.  I had some good luck this week and made a dollar three forty…so I can afford to come.  It’s now a matter of the time. BWb

Sounds like you finally made enough to bribe the Sheriff. Unka Bob

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Sounds like you finally made enough to bribe the Sheriff. Unka Bob

It’s not bribery, it’s soft money political campaign contributions. Tom " election year" Cooper

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Among other interesting comments, John H Ousterhout noted: Many of us do not want to sell the Gypsy,  We may hang it from the ceiling of our chapter hangar as a static display.  Others believe that it should be flying and are willing to sell it to a good home.  It is awfully cute.

I’d be sorely tempted to buy it (at a good enough price, of course) if it didn’t mean crossing the country at something slower than the average wind velocity.  It is awfully cute.  Those comments about what a nice flyer it is piqued my curiosity, too. Thanks for the info. Owen Davies

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    hehehe,,,,,,                                     Scrappman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t think there’s any room left in the tub: http://www.cyberis.net/~jouster/gallery/hi_bill.jpg – J.O.- P.S. Have you learned to fly straight yet?    What about the hot tub party on Sat. night? Keeping that one to your self, John?                                        Scrappman Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

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Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

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    What about the hot tub party on Sat. night? Keeping that one to your self, John?                                         Scrappman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

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I don’t think there’s any room left in the tub: http://www.cyberis.net/~jouster/gallery/hi_bill.jpg – J.O.- P.S. Have you learned to fly straight yet? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    What about the hot tub party on Sat. night? Keeping that one to your self, John?                                        Scrappman Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

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Question:

Here in Missouri we use a fly called a "mullberry" made to loof like rotting/floating mulberries, which carp eat. Don’t ask me how to make them, I just buy them. At the right time of year at local lakes and ponds carp can be great fun.

Never made a mulberry fly, but I’ve eaten millions of the berries.  I imagine some coarse purple chenille or yarn wound around a hook to about 3/4" length and 1/2" or so diameter would do just fine.

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"Round and round the mulberry bush. like a teddy bear,  one step two steps, watch out for that crap there " Modification of an old  childrens rhyme, which seemed to fit some of the present threads, and my mood ! By the way, "millions of the berries", assuming a weight of a third of an ounce per berry and two million berries = 41,666 lbs. of berries or 18,94 metric Tonnes  ! Personally I think that would give me the shits !

Third of an ounce per berry is a gross over-estimation.  It’s probably a lot closer to thirty per ounce.  On the other hand, a half pound or so WILL give you the shits…….well, it has me anyway; many times.  Some things are worth the price though.                   p.s.  Aside from the distaste some might have for using bait, the naturals are simply much too good to waste on carp; no one can can truly say that he or she has lived a full life before sampling a well made mulberry pie!

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"Round and round the mulberry bush. like a teddy bear,  one step two steps, watch out for that crap there " Modification of an old  childrens rhyme, which seemed to fit some of the present threads, and my mood ! By the way, "millions of the berries", assuming a weight of a third of an ounce per berry and two million berries = 41,666 lbs. of berries or 18,94 metric Tonnes  ! Personally I think that would give me the shits ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Ok guys, stay on topic, it’s "CARP" not "CRAP" <Gjim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Round and round the mulberry bush. like a teddy bear,  one step two steps, watch out for that crap there " Modification of an old  childrens rhyme, which seemed to fit some of the present threads, and my mood ! By the way, "millions of the berries", assuming a weight of a third of an ounce per berry and two million berries = 41,666 lbs. of berries or 18,94 metric Tonnes  ! Personally I think that would give me the shits ! Third of an ounce per berry is a gross over-estimation.  It’s probably a lot closer to thirty per ounce.  On the other hand, a half pound or so WILL give you the shits…….well, it has me anyway; many times.  Some things are worth the price though.                   p.s.  Aside from the distaste some might have for using bait, the naturals are simply much too good to waste on carp; no one can can truly say that he or she has lived a full life before sampling a well made mulberry pie!

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I usually fish yarn more than anything else. I’ve had suckers in a river so thick that they are bumpin into your waders, and you cannot even make a drift without snagging or picking up a sucker. Thats when I head to the white water. The steelhead like that heavy water, and the suckers usually will fall back in the slack water.       Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Suckers, the ones with a "down-turned sucker mouth" will readily take a nymph. Much to my surprise, I caught one in brook trout water fishing a big stonefly nymph.  That sucker (pun intended) took off on a great run through a big pool. I thought I had a good size brookie on until I got it in closer.  Must have weighed about 5 pounds.   A couple of friends saw me from a distance and later asked me how big was "that brookie".  I said it was a 4 pounder.  <g Dave LaCourse Don’t laugh but I’ve caught suckers on streamers.  There’s one heavy chute on the Credit that’s tough to fish using regular streamer methods.  I’d dead drift streamers like nymphs using a sinktip and some weight for the steelhead that like to sit on the bottom.  Every now and again, I’d feel a pull rather than a strike, set the hook and up would come one pissed off sucker.  These weren’t foul hookups, the suckers were taking the streamers.  I figure that it was one of two thinks, the suckers were acting territorial or that they feed on dead, drifting minnows.  Hooked up about five suckers but never did get a steelie that day. Peter

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We were fishing right on the bottom, so I don’t know if the carp actually took the fly or if it was nestled in the aquatic vegetation upon which he was a munch’n.

I have landed several here in farm/subdivision ponds and at Callaway Gardens here in west Georgia. All of my fish have taken topwater deer-hair flys – I think they look like grass to them.  The approach & presentation must be very stealthy – grass carp are very spooky when feeding on top. Here’s on of them – http://kje.home.mindspring.com/grass_carp.htm

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I have landed several here in farm/subdivision ponds and at Callaway Gardens here in west Georgia. All of my fish have taken topwater deer-hair flys – I think they look like grass to them.  The approach & presentation must be very stealthy – grass carp are very spooky when feeding on top. Here’s on of them – http://kje.home.mindspring.com/grass_carp.htm

That’s a great looking fish, Kent. Aren’t those big scales fabulous? Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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I have landed several here in farm/subdivision ponds http://kje.home.mindspring.com/grass_carp.htm

I bet landing that sucker was a blast.  How does a small farm/subdivision "pond" support several fish of that size? I have to assume that once they devour all the grass, fry are next on their menu…. do these ponds have any other fish left in them? jim

Response:

Though I’ve never caught one, the "Carp on a Fly" book claims that grass carp, although known for eating plants, will readily eat other food, insects, nymphs, and whatever. They actually have less of a down-turned "sucker" mouth than normal carp, and thus can take live prey more easily (I assume).

Last week, I had one take a generic black wooly bugger just under the surface, sight casted to him just after sunset as they began rolling up on the surface.  Awesome fight for a 3-4lb fish in a restricted, snag-free channel.

Response:

Jon Cook writes: Though I’ve never caught one, the "Carp on a Fly" book claims that grass carp, although known for eating plants, will readily eat other food, insects, nymphs, and whatever. They actually have less of a down-turned "sucker" mouth than normal carp, and thus can take live prey more easily (I assume).

Suckers, the ones with a "down-turned sucker mouth" will readily take a nymph. Much to my surprise, I caught one in brook trout water fishing a big stonefly nymph.  That sucker (pun intended) took off on a great run through a big pool. I thought I had a good size brookie on until I got it in closer.  Must have weighed about 5 pounds.   A couple of friends saw me from a distance and later asked me how big was "that brookie".  I said it was a 4 pounder.  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

Here in Missouri we use a fly called a "mullberry" made to loof like rotting/floating mulberries, which carp eat. Don’t ask me how to make them, I just buy them. At the right time of year at local lakes and ponds carp can be great fun.

Response:

Suckers, the ones with a "down-turned sucker mouth" will readily take a nymph. Much to my surprise, I caught one in brook trout water fishing a big stonefly nymph.  That sucker (pun intended) took off on a great run through a big pool. I thought I had a good size brookie on until I got it in closer.  Must have weighed about 5 pounds.   A couple of friends saw me from a distance and later asked me how big was "that brookie".  I said it was a 4 pounder.  <g Dave LaCourse

Don’t laugh but I’ve caught suckers on streamers.  There’s one heavy chute on the Credit that’s tough to fish using regular streamer methods.  I’d dead drift streamers like nymphs using a sinktip and some weight for the steelhead that like to sit on the bottom.  Every now and again, I’d feel a pull rather than a strike, set the hook and up would come one pissed off sucker.  These weren’t foul hookups, the suckers were taking the streamers.  I figure that it was one of two thinks, the suckers were acting territorial or that they feed on dead, drifting minnows.  Hooked up about five suckers but never did get a steelie that day. Peter

Response:

Two years ago the DNR stocked my local fishing hole with grass eating carp in an effort to control the grass/hydrilla. That’s another story…. Wednesday I planned to fish after work and talked my fishing buddy into joining me. He did not have anything with him so he would use one of my rods (Sage 5wt). We hit the water about 3 PM and the fishing was great, in about two hours we had hooked about 100 gills and crappie. Then he set the hook into what turned out to be about a 20 LB carp (my guess). I have been told by DNR that these damn things eat 6 times their body weight each day and grow like hell. I swear the thing was 3 feet long, I don’t remember ever catching a carp and had no idea what they fought like. It did not make any big runs, just short spurts and then unbelievable jumps like a salmon or trout. It made one run directly under the boat and jumped on the other side, at this point his rod (my Sage) was half submerged and bent under the boat, all I could do was yell "Let it run and damn it, don’t break my rod". It made one more beautiful jump and straightened the hook. He was using 4LB tippet with a #12 wooly. Ugly fish but a sight to see. We were fishing right on the bottom, so I don’t know if the carp actually took the fly or if it was nestled in the aquatic vegetation upon which he was a munch’n. Gawd, those leaps were spectacular jim

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Question:

We need your contributions to a new website for Mid-Atlantic flyfishers! I live in Bethesda, MD, right next to the Potomac River. I am an avid smallmouth/blugill flyfisherman, but I also enjoy fishing for trout. Like many of you, I’m feeling the Spring urge to start fishing again. Nobody likes their favorite fishing spots given away or mobbed. Having said that, there is enough good water to fish in the Mid-Atlantic area for us to share some information. To that end, I have published a website solely for purposes of exchanging information. (I do this sort of thing for a living.) I have absolutely no other interest than, like you, to know where conditions are good, where fish are caught, etc. The website is up and running now. Here is the URL: http://www.erols.com/sierra1/flyfish/midfly.htm The site isn’t fancy, but contains quality information based on first-hand knowledge. My goal is to make this site timely and functional. It will improve over time, and I will update it every time I receive information. All I ask is that you send me a brief message—at your convenience—with a few words on conditions in your area, a recent outing, successful fly patterns…or anything else that might be of use to us all. You’re welcome to give me a call too. I’ll post my home phone number below. Please take a look at the site. It is divided into areas for Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania. There are also areas for fly patterns and stories or anecdotes. I’m committed to doing the work on my end. The site’s success will be determined by your willingness to contribute info, trip reports, etc. Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you! Scott Wilkinson Bethesda, MD h: (301) 229-2863 w: (301) 229-9585 f: (301) 320-6154 Mid-Atlantic Flyfishing page: http://www.erols.com/sierra1/flyfish/midfly.htm

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Question:

I t is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman

I would guess that 90% of the flies purchased in the USA are tied overseas.  If I had to depend on US tiers to supply my store I would have closed up about 10 years ago.  I hope no one will take offense to that statement. Our preseason order with Umpqua Feather Merchants is for 20 thousand dozen flies.  We then fill in the rest of the year depending on how it goes. We also buy some specialty flies from  a half-dozen other sources. They are US tiers. I would love to have all my flies tied by Al Troth, Bob Quigley and Dave Whitlock, but that is impossible. In California, good imported trout flies tied on high quality Japanese hooks, sell retail for $1.75 each.  I love to have people take our fly tieing classes because afterwards they will never complane about the price of flies. I thought about deleting this rather than posting it, but after reading it about 6 times I decided that it was very factual. I started selling flies in a very good sporting goods store thirty years ago. We had Dan Bailey’s US tied flies and Cortland imported flies from Kenya. A lot of people would not be going fly fishing if we didn’t have imported flies. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Hi Jim, Didn’t know you’d become a tackle dealer too. I need a jungle cock cape. Stripers are running in the Georges, Later, Bob Olmsted

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The situation has not improved since you studied it. I am a retired school teacher augmenting my pension by tying flies professionally. I tied for about 10 years before retiring so I could afford to teach. The $30,000 would be reachable. A.K. Best claimed to tie 3,000 dozen/year and I think that is a reasonable number. I like to fish too much to reach that number. The flies tied overseas vary in quality but the good ones are definitely fishable. But when one supplier plans on selling 750,000 dozen this year, it shows a real demand for tyers. I think the best route for local tyers is to custom tie for shops or individual fishermen/fisherwomen/fisherkids. Most of my tying is for one shop and is for patterns not covered by the big boys. I think the Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

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The situation has not improved since you studied it. I am a retired school teacher augmenting my pension by tying flies professionally. I tied for about 10 years before retiring so I could afford to teach. The $30,000 would be reachable. A.K. Best claimed to tie 3,000 dozen/year and I think that is a reasonable number. I like to fish too much to reach that number. The flies tied overseas vary in quality but the good ones are definitely fishable. But when one supplier plans on selling 750,000 dozen this year, it shows a real demand for tyers. I think the best route for local tyers is to custom tie for shops or individual fishermen/fisherwomen/fisherkids. Most of my tying is for one shop and is for patterns not covered by the big boys. I think the Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

Response:

What I would *really* like to see is a machine-tied fly in several sizes using natural materials. I promise to be awestruck if it has upright wings and a split tail. Now that would be something to hoot about! — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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It’s really amazing the number of customers that think flies are tied by a machine.  Of course (most of) these are the spouses of fly fishermen coming in to buy a gift.  I had always thought like you – I would like to see THAT machine! Sandy Lockleer Creekside Fly Shop, Salem, Oregon http://www.halcyon.com/flyshop/

Response:

Hi Ken. I saw an ad for hand tied flies and wondered if there was any other way? Silly header really! A machine dextrous enough to tie flies really would be something. Mind you judging by some of the flies that are tied, the inventor of such a machine would make a packet.                                              Tight lines. Dave T. What I would *really* like to see is a machine-tied fly in several sizes using natural materials. I promise to be awestruck if it has upright wings and a split tail. Now that would be something to hoot about!

– dave tait

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I had always thought like you – I would like to see THAT machine!

     Especially the one that does the wings on Jock Scotts.

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I t is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman

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I totally agree with this statement. As a former pro tyer I was and still am recieving offers from Kenyans who would like to supply me with trout flies at a fraction of the cost of UK flies. I refused such offers however some of my conterpartarts took up the cheap fly challenge and import tens of thousands of flies per year. These so called fly tyers then sell flies tied by others as their own produce. I look forward to reading of the first test case in the UK of a fly tyer being prosecuted under the trades description act.                                  Dave Tait. You’ve matched the hatch but can you catch the catch? writes I t is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman

– dave tait

Response:

A.J writes: It is good to see that at least one

craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. I agree mostly with your sentiments. "Hand-tied" is no assurance of quality, per se, however and there are some truly fine flies flies coming in from overseas. If there were not such a large market for them, they wouldn’t be in the shops. Being an advocate of free market economics, I cannot criticize the fact of imports meeting market demands but it would be interesting to learn whether overseas fly manufacturers may be creating opportunities for some individuals that may not otherwise have existed before. Are their wages "pitiful" compared to their local economies? Can domestic tyers supply demand? Quien sabe? — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

Response:

I cannot verify that the wages paid are different than the prevailing in their area. I suspect that it is an opportunity that the tiers would not have if the fly factories were not there. I can shed some light on the plight of the tier/shop owner.  Many of the tiers have always tended to be unreliable, this lead to unreliable supply. This is obviously a major problem for a commodity as seasonal as flies. A tyer who wants to be a reliable supplier to a shop has a tough road ahead until he can prove himself IF he is given a chance. The point of it being that the overseas suppliers have not competed on a cost basis but on a supply basis. A.J.Thramer

Response:

A.J writes: It is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie.

In fact, tiers in Third World countries often make relatively decent wages, compared to those they

Question:

Can anybody fill me in with details regards current models of Zebco multiplier reels available in the USA? Dear Mike:

Zebco has a web site on the internet that I’m sure will supply you with all the required information.  http://www.dfrontiers.com/zebco/ T.J.

Response:

Can anybody fill me in with details regards current models of Zebco multiplier reels available in the USA? I’m interested in those with a spool capacity between 250 and 350 yards of 15lb mono line. Thanks in advance and tightlines! Mike

Response:

Can anybody fill me in with details regards current models of Zebco multiplier reels available in the USA? I’m interested in those with a spool capacity between 250 and 350 yards of 15lb mono line. Thanks in advance and tightlines! Mike

Give them a shot at their WWW address http://www.zebco.com/ Regards          Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

Response:

Question:

Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Where to spend my money? Steve

Response:

I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money?

Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Response:

If you often overtrain, get the HRM.  If you need more protein, get the fishing equipment.  Otherwise, you’ll just have to decide for yourself. — Ray Charbonneau    | MIT Library Systems| Everyone is entitled to my opinion.  *Disclaimer? Why?*|

Response:

Buy the fly fishing gear and go have fun.  You’ll be more relaxed for your training and will in turn run farther and faster.  Besides, I’ve not yet met a marathon runner who has trained with a heart rate monitor, so I’m sure you can train hard enough to improve your time without one.   Buy the heart rate monitor next year, and don’t go out too fast in Portland, as the crowds during the first part of the race might make you go faster than you should. Best fishes, Dan

Response:

When in doubt, go with the fun stuff. Buy the fishing outfit. Chances are you’ll use it more and longer. Mike T. — WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Club & Race Listings 200+ listings. Advertise your race. Club Home Pages. http://www.catalog.com/webrun/running/running.html

Response:

Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers.

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I have both.  Believe me, I can cast a lot farther with a fly rod.

Response:

Well, I’ve used the heart monitor before marathons, and it works well…I tended to use it by setting target heart ranges for faster paced running, when the monitor stopped beeping, I knew I’d warmed up enough to get into the target range, then when the monitor started beeping again, i knew i’d run enough (when it exceeds the upper end of the range it beeps) or that i was running too fast for the distance i wanted to go. However, if there was good fly fishing close by, i’d probably have bought the flyfishing equip. later Jim Danforth

Response:

I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money? Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Steve, Its apparant your training is suffering from a lack of obsession. I refer you to Calvin and Hobbes from about two weeks ago.  T Training with a monitor lets you micro  analyze your pperformance with the goal being to satisy such standards as your training log and other people who wear monitors. Also there’s a coolness factor related to who might be impressed by the purchases.  Fish or friends?   I have trained with a monitor for a year.  Has it helped?  Got me. It is a diversion and something to do on those long runs. Steve Rogers When the going gets tough, blah, blah, blah

Response:

[deleted] : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. Tim Walker

Response:

: Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up : flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your : own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful : courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good : grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. : This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers. Hey, hey, hey!!!  Whatchit buddy.  This state still has the fighting words law.  That means I can bust you in the chops for saying such things and all the cops will do is make fun of your glass jaw or my right hook! Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

: Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: : I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year : (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland : Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some : backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine : with a real fly fishing outfit. : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Where to spend my money? : Steve My vote is for the flyfishing gear.  As a bonus I offer you my "cheap" heart rate monitor:   If you’re breathing, its beating.  If you’re not breathing, it’s probably stopped (or will shortly). (sippinElkMountainAmberAleandrootinfortheBarracudainLongBeachCalifornia wheretheearthmovesundermyfeet)

Response:

Get both. Many new runners pack up when they find that it takes discipline and effort to get fit. There are many HRMs lying dormant in people homes unused. I’ve just bought one for 10 pounds second hand. Look in your local paper I’m sure you’ll find one. Simon — Simon Walsh    

Response:

: [deleted] : : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you : fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. And if the shoes don’t fit, Reebok Pumps make dandy strike indicators. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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