Question:

It could be a legitimate question. I had a guide place his sports at the top and bottom of a short run I was fishing. Then he grabbed a rod and stood across from me and fished. When he had his sports wade through the run I was fishing to get to the other side I told the sports that that was the worst display of fishing ediquette I had ever seen and to tip accordingly. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I just had one with  www.4bigfish.com !!!!  Spamming a newsgroup is bad business and ill advised. Op Has any one ever had a bad outfitter experiance? Where, when, and why?  Tell your story so we can avoid them. Mark Thomas www.4bigfish.com

Response:

It could be a legitimate question. I had a guide place his sports at the top and bottom of a short run I was fishing. Then he grabbed a rod and stood across from me and fished. When he had his sports wade through the run I was fishing to get to the other side I told the sports that that was the worst display of fishing ediquette I had ever seen and to tip accordingly.

I’ve had a bad outfitter experience. Went with a good buddy to BC for steelhead and scheduled a guide for about half of our fishing time there. Said he knew fly fishing, etc. yadda, yadda, yadda. He was the most inept "fly fisherman", could not row a boat, didn’t know shit from shinola about patterns or techniques, etc. I could go on. and on. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022

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john

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Has any one ever had a bad outfitter experiance? Where, when, and why?  Tell your story so we can avoid them. Mark Thomas www.4bigfish.com

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Yes, I just had one with  www.4bigfish.com !!!!  Spamming a newsgroup is bad business and ill advised. Op – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has any one ever had a bad outfitter experiance? Where, when, and why?  Tell your story so we can avoid them. Mark Thomas www.4bigfish.com

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Yes, I just had one with  www.4bigfish.com !!!!  Spamming a newsgroup is bad business and ill advised.

That pretty much matches most of my bad outfitter experiences. — Charlie…

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So much for attracting potential customers. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I just had one with  www.4bigfish.com !!!!  Spamming a newsgroup is bad business and ill advised. That pretty much matches most of my bad outfitter experiences. — Charlie…

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Question:

Up to Pulaski, NY, I think the first weekend in October.  I’m the lone first timer of the bunch (they’ve been going for about 6 years now) so I’m not exactly sure where we’ll be.  I’ll get some more detailed info and let you know, maybe we can meet there.  Since I’ll be only one with a flyrod, in the bunch, it would be great to have someone to head to the fly only section with.

If you’re there the first weekend, I’ll miss meeting you.   (My photo on rw’s page is on the Salmon R.)  The run should be going strong that weekend though. Don’t put too much expectation into the FFO stretch.   Up there, they’ll crimp a couple ounces of huge split shot onto some 30# mono, put a piece of colored sponge on a #2 hook and lob the entire mess into the river with a fly rod. That unfortunately satisfies the FFO regulations. Catching those big guys on a fly rod is a blast, though, even if it’s sometimes a bit too easy (and sometimes not).   Dead drift a nymph (teeny nymphs and egg patterns are good) with one to three (at the most) BB sized split shot to just bounce on the bottom (depending on depth & flow).   Use a big strike indicator. It’s a simple enough rig to roll cast and has been fantastically effective for me.   The hard part is landing the fish in the midst of a crowd of spin fishermen.   They *will* take you into your backing.   And if you haven’t been there before, you’ll be amazed at the crowds.   Even if you don’t fish there (and I recommend you don’t), drive through downtown Pulaski and check out the insane mobs lining the banks there.   It’s a zoo.   Oh yeah – 8 wt. or 9 wt. E-mail me if you want more info. Joe F.

Response:

Up to Pulaski, NY, I think the first weekend in October.  I’m the lone first timer of the bunch (they’ve been going for about 6 years now) so I’m not exactly sure where we’ll be.  I’ll get some more detailed info and let you know, maybe we can meet there.  Since I’ll be only one with a flyrod, in the bunch, it would be great to have someone to head to the fly only section with. Natty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October Yo Natty.   Me too.   But which Salmon R?   When In Oct? Joe F. (me: NY; 13, 14, 15)

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(1) Cabela has a 5-pc 8wt stowaway with 96% graphite for $80. (2) Natl Sports Supply has a "Gallatin" 5-pc 9wt (or 10wt) IM6 pack rod with removable fighting butt for $119.  I bought one of these and like it.  Medium action. http://877icefish.safeshopper.com/80/213.htm?672 The Gallatin is said to be corrosion resistant.  I found nothing on it that attracts a magnet. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)

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I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October

Yo Natty.   Me too.   But which Salmon R?   When In Oct? Joe F. (me: NY; 13, 14, 15)

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Thanks for the input Bob.  Funny, the Cabela’s rep told me they were moderate action rods (what I prefer) which makes your input even more valuable since I really don’t like stiff/very fast rods.  I would have been very disappointed had I purchased the Stowaway only to find it’s too fast for my taste. Thanks again. Natty

If you prefer a moderate action, take a look at the St. Croix Avid series. I have a 6wt. and really like the way it casts. They are also fairly inexpensive. A friend of mine has an 8wt Sage DS 2, which he loves. I’ve never thrown it though, so can’t comment. Scott

Response:

I have an 8wt Stowaway that I bought primarily to use for Silvers on Kodiak. I have not taken it fishing yet, but am impressed with the overall fit, finish and quality, and the way it casts. It is however a very fast (stiff) action that may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Bob Weinberger

Thanks for the input Bob.  Funny, the Cabela’s rep told me they were moderate action rods (what I prefer) which makes your input even more valuable since I really don’t like stiff/very fast rods.  I would have been very disappointed had I purchased the Stowaway only to find it’s too fast for my taste. Thanks again. Natty

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The 8wt Stowaway I got has an attached fighting butt -= appr 1" long. I don’t know if the metal fittings are actually anodized, but those on the reel seat appear to have a corrosion resistant coating (birds-eye maple insert). I call the action fast, but its different than my fast IMX which has most of its flex near the tip.  Though the Stowaway does not flex as readily as my old IM6 rods, the flex comes much further down the blank.  Given Cabela’s liberal return policy, I suggest you order one & try it yourself. The only thing I don’t like about it is that it has a half wells handle that tapers down to a fairly slim diameter.  Since I have quite large hands, I prefer a full wells – especially on larger rods. Bob Weinberger BTW I first flyfished for trout (more years ago than I care to remember) in what I believe is your neck of the woods – the gorge section of the Raritan.

Response:

I have an 8wt Stowaway that I bought primarily to use for Silvers on Kodiak. I have not taken it fishing yet, but am impressed with the overall fit, finish and quality, and the way it casts. It is however a very fast (stiff) action that may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Bob Weinberger

Bob I don’t see a picture of the 8 wt. on Cabelas site.  Does it have a fighting butt and anodized for the salt? Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I don’t see a picture of the 8 wt. on Cabelas site.  Does it have a fighting butt and anodized for the salt?

Peter,  it does have a fighting butt attached (not removeable, or at least not on mine 8 wt stowaway, anyway), and I don’t think it is anodized, either. — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

I have an 8wt Stowaway that I bought primarily to use for Silvers on Kodiak. I have not taken it fishing yet, but am impressed with the overall fit, finish and quality, and the way it casts. It is however a very fast (stiff) action that may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Bob Weinberger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October but don’t have any fly tackle heavier than a 6 wt.  I’ll need to pick something up in the 8-9 wt. range but since I’ll most likely only use the heavy setup a few times a year I don’t feel like dropping a ton of $$ on it.  Use would be Coho, Steelhead, very occasionally Stripers and maybe Weakfish. There have been numerous posts praising the Cabela’s Stowaway rods but I don’t recall if any were for the 8 wt. I’m not even sure if the Stowaway is practical for this application…don’t see why not though. Anyone out there who has used the Stowaway 8 wt I would appreciate your comments on the rod. If the Stowaway is deemed to not be a practical choice for this application the others I’m considering are the Sage DS2 890 (8wt, 9ft) and Orvis Clearwater 908(9ft, 8wt).  Opinions on these are welcome also. Thanks, Natty

Response:

I’ll be going on a trip to the Salmon River in October but don’t have any fly tackle heavier than a 6 wt.  I’ll need to pick something up in the 8-9 wt. range but since I’ll most likely only use the heavy setup a few times a year I don’t feel like dropping a ton of $$ on it.  Use would be Coho, Steelhead, very occasionally Stripers and maybe Weakfish. There have been numerous posts praising the Cabela’s Stowaway rods but I don’t recall if any were for the 8 wt. I’m not even sure if the Stowaway is practical for this application…don’t see why not though. Anyone out there who has used the Stowaway 8 wt I would appreciate your comments on the rod. If the Stowaway is deemed to not be a practical choice for this application the others I’m considering are the Sage DS2 890 (8wt, 9ft) and Orvis Clearwater 908(9ft, 8wt).  Opinions on these are welcome also. Thanks, Natty

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Question:

 For those that use Outlook Express, I need your help.  I want to accomplish two things. 1) change my name that appear on the NG to "fly-fishing-midget." 2) have another of my hotmail addresses appear on the NG instead of my primary address. I am now using My Deja to accomplish this.  However, I rather use Outlook Express unless I’m searching something. I think everyone will know why I want this changed due to be all the hoopla going on lately.  I hope to eliminate the hate mail that my wife sees coming to my primary address.  I can read it at one of my other addresses without upsetting my wife.  She has nothing to do with my actions on this NG or other e-correspondence.   Vern U Before you buy.

Response:

Vern, try this: For 1) Select the News Group Select TOOLS Select Accounts (Hi-Lite Account Desired) Select Properties Select Name and enter the name you want to use Select OK For 2) Try: Same as above except select E-Mail Address instead of Name, Both Name and email address can be entered at one time if you want. Personally, I like Vern better and the hate mail will die quickly, good luck Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those that use Outlook Express, I need your help.  I want to accomplish two things. 1) change my name that appear on the NG to "fly-fishing-midget." 2) have another of my hotmail addresses appear on the NG instead of my primary address. I am now using My Deja to accomplish this.  However, I rather use Outlook Express unless I’m searching something. I think everyone will know why I want this changed due to be all the hoopla going on lately.  I hope to eliminate the hate mail that my wife sees coming to my primary address.  I can read it at one of my other addresses without upsetting my wife.  She has nothing to do with my actions on this NG or other e-correspondence.  Vern U Before you buy.

Response:

  I hope to eliminate the hate mail that my wife sees coming to my primary address.  I can read it at one of my other  Vern U

Ohhhhhhhh Vern baby….I just hate it when youstop touching me in that special way you have…….I just hate when you have to leave so early in

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  I hope to eliminate the hate mail that my wife sees coming to my primary address.  I can read it at one of my other  Vern U Ohhhhhhhh Vern baby….I just hate it when youstop touching me in that special way you have…….I just hate when you have to leave so early in

Hooooboy… I think ASADI slipped in the stream and hit his head!!! Someone get a DOC and a cold beer! Tihs man is hurt! {shudder} — Michael Era

Question:

Need info on how to access the river below Brockaway Mills.

Response:

Rich, I have never fished it myself…my buddies tell me below Brockway is better for smallies later in the season than trout.  That  not withstanding , the best advice for access is to call the warden for that area.  His name is Philip Howland and his number is 802 885 4975.  I am certain he can tell the easiest and most productive area in which to access.  Have fun. James James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

Response:

Hi, My sister lives near Ascutney, and I fished the Williams a year ago. We went in near the power plant (dam) at Herrick’s Cove (I think that’s the name), and since the power co. had been letting no water out yet, it was high and quite good fishing. – went all over the cove area, and actually you could go right to the Conneticutt. Directions – take #5 hwy to the jct with 103, sign says NE power picnic area – boat access is there. If I remeber correctly, the rest of the water between the Mill and the cove was a series of small flatwater pools with lots of shallows in between – but then I was there in August ! Bill Need info on how to access the river below Brockaway Mills.

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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Question:

I am going to buy a new 20 ft pontoon.  The manufacturer sells it with either 25 or 40 hp motors.  I have already decided to opt for the 40 but don’t know which brand to get.  They sell Force, Mariner, or Honda.  I understand that the quality of the Honda is excellent but have no experience with that brand.  Any comments would be appreciated.  Also, any comments about "add-ons"–I’m going to use the  boat for cruising as well as fishing. Bill

Hi Bill, I am looking for a 30 to 40 HP myself. I think that I might get a Honda 4 cycle. They are more money, heavier, but are quieter and get better gas milage. My next choice would be a Yamaha 2 cycle. What do others think? Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Go for the Honda.  Much better engine from reliability and maintenance point of view.  If the Honda is too much, then go with the Mariner.  Stay away from the Force.  It is a stripped down version made solely for the low end price market, which means it is also a low end motor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to buy a new 20 ft pontoon.  The manufacturer sells it with either 25 or 40 hp motors.  I have already decided to opt for the 40 but don’t know which brand to get.  They sell Force, Mariner, or Honda.  I understand that the quality of the Honda is excellent but have no experience with that brand.  Any comments would be appreciated.  Also, any comments about "add-ons"–I’m going to use the  boat for cruising as well as fishing. Bill

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Get the Mariner. It is more dependable and has a better garintee. I baught a Mariner 3 years ago. I had a small problem with the coil and they gave me a brand new motor no questions asked.

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:I am going to buy a new 20 ft pontoon.  The manufacturer sells it with :either 25 or 40 hp motors.  I have already decided to opt for the 40 but :don’t know which brand to get.  They sell Force, Mariner, or Honda.  I :understand that the quality of the Honda is excellent but have no :experience with that brand.  Any comments would be appreciated.  Also, Hey Bill, I’m new to this group and your post caught my attention. I just got back from Florida where i rented a 20 foot pontoon with a 30 horse. It was pushing to get 15 to 18 mph ! I rented the same size boat last year with a 60 i believe and i was passing runabouts that were on plane !  If you ever need to  cover some real distance you might opt for bigger motor. If your just out scooting around small lake the smaller one will do but dont expect to get anywhere fast with that 25 Kevin

Response:

I am going to buy a new 20 ft pontoon.  The manufacturer sells it with either 25 or 40 hp motors.  I have already decided to opt for the 40 but don’t know which brand to get.  They sell Force, Mariner, or Honda.  I understand that the quality of the Honda is excellent but have no experience with that brand.  Any comments would be appreciated.  Also, any comments about "add-ons"–I’m going to use the  boat for cruising as well as fishing. Bill

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Question:

As I am new to flyfishing,(nearly 1 year), I have become an avid fly tier market today? If all of the Pinot Noir wines were set in front of me I’m sure I couldn’t tell one from the other after I got to a certain priceSt.Croix $50.00 blank and a Sage $250.00 blank. Is Thomas and Thomas really different from a Powell, or a Sage, or a Scott, or an Orvis? I would like to hear your response, and hope perhaps that the ability to define the differences is something I can look forward to as I get more proficient in my casting. Thanks. DLowe21757

I’m sorry to hear you cannot tell the difference between Pinot Noirs.   You picked a good one to work with tho’, maybe someday you will be able to appreciate the many differences.  The same is true of flyrods.  A Winston or T & T do not cast anything like a Sage or Loomis or Orvis.   Actually Loomis makes rods for a great majority of rod companies, built to their (other Co.) specifications.  At you stage of development a Sage or Orvis would probably be a good choice.  You will soon wish you hadn’t wasted your time, if you build a rod from a cheap noodlely brank.  Go to a shop where you can cast these rods.  Their actions are quite different, and the deciding factor would be your casting style. -Burton

Response:

As I am new to flyfishing,(nearly 1 year), I have become an avid fly opposite problem.  The moral of the story is, you have to try the rod (or have an experienced caster try it for you) before you buy a rod, line, reel combination..  The line ratings on cheap rods can be very misleading.

Not only can the ratings be misleading, but some of them specify a range of ratings like 4,5 wt. or 4,5,6-wt.  So where do you start if you don’t happen to have a collection of lines laying around both in DT and WF (these can load the rod differently), especially if you are a beginner.   I would never buy a rod that was given a multiple rating, since it gave me the impression the builder wasn’t quite sure which wt. it was intended for. -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Charles

Response:

Dear Mr. Lowe Mr.Burton told you correctly, except of course that the St Croix is an excellent blank for the money.  Believe it or not, Lee Wulff Fished St Croix fly rods I never fished a St  Croix I didn’t like. Mr. Gink

Yo George, Sorry I omitted one of your favorite rods.  I am not familar with St. Croix myself, the ones I have tried were too soft for my taste.  However, I will hasten to add that St. Croix blanks are quite popular here in Oregon for building inexpensive tough salmon rods. -Burton

Response:

Dear Mr. Lowe Mr.Burton told you correctly, except of course that the St Croix is an excellent blank for the money.  Believe it or not, Lee Wulff Fished St Croix fly rods many, many times and regarded them as top of the line equipment.  I’m sure, if they were good enough for Lee Wulff they will be good enough first choice for you.  Build it, try it, fish it and then let me know how you ‘REALLY’ like it.

I never fished a St  Croix I didn’t like. Mr. Gink

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Question:

     We are 4 fishing buddies from Colorado who want to try fishing a new area.  The Deschutes and McKenzie Rivers were recomended to us by a fellow Fly fisherman from California.      We have fished Wyoming, Idaho and Montana in the last several years and would like to try fishing the Northwest.  We are mainly interested in trout although I have never caught a Steelhead.  Most of us are experienced nymph anglers.      We normally hire a guide in any new area we fish to sort of get the lay of the land and then fish on our own.        We will be in the area for about a week and will probably fly into whatever city is recomended, rent a car and drive to an area to fish.  We need rent hotel/motel rooms for each of us near where we are going to fish.      I know when anglers come to Denver from out of town, I will usually take them to the famous South Platte River and then, because they are not local, I will take them to some of my more "secret" areas since they will probably not have the opportunity to spread the word around.      We sure would like to fish some of the more unknown areas and will find it easy to keep the areas a secret since we are 1500 miles away.                                      Thanks for the information                                       Dave Wahl

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     We are 4 fishing buddies from Colorado who want to try fishing a new area.  The Deschutes and McKenzie Rivers were recomended to us by a fellow Fly fisherman from California.     We have fished Wyoming, Idaho and Montana in the last several years and would like to try fishing the Northwest.  We are mainly interested in trout although I have never caught a Steelhead.  Most of us are experienced nymph anglers.     We normally hire a guide in any new area we fish to sort of get the lay of the land and then fish on our own.       We will be in the area for about a week and will probably fly into whatever city is recomended, rent a car and drive to an area to fish.  We need rent hotel/motel rooms for each of us near where we are going to fish.     I know when anglers come to Denver from out of town, I will usually take them to the famous South Platte River and then, because they are not local, I will take them to some of my more "secret" areas since they will probably not have the opportunity to spread the word around.     We sure would like to fish some of the more unknown areas and will find it easy to keep the areas a secret since we are 1500 miles away.                                     Thanks for the information                                      Dave Wahl

The Crooked River.    L.H.

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Question:

I will be in the Fort Meyers and Naples area in June. Any suggestions as to guides that have experience and interest in fly fishing. Also any areas that I could try without a guide and suggested flies. Thanks-Alex

Response:

Doug Swisher and Capt Bob Marvin run a saltwater flyfishing school and also guide out of Naples.  I’ve fished with both and they are super to spend a day on the water with. Doug goes back to trout in the summer months, but Capt Bob fishes there all year. call Naples information for Doug Swisher or bob Marvin.   you’ll have a ball. Reed

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any info or sources for info on flyfishing in the Pyrenees — either in France or in Spain? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

Response:

No, but there’s a river in Toldedo Spain that looked kind of "troutish"In – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any info or sources for info on flyfishing in the Pyrenees — either in France or in Spain? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

Response:

Try contacting Cantabrian Travel Ltd. 220 NActon Road, Ipswich, Suffolk IP3 9JN Tel 01473 71743 Fax 01473 272571 The proprietor arranges holiday accomodation in Spain and fishing permits.  He appears to be a fly fisherman and seems to know a bit about it, he suggested that for when we are going the permit would be a waste of time and money as the rivers would be very low so seems to know his stuff – and is an honest travel agent ;-o

Response:

Anyone have any info or sources for info on flyfishing in the Pyrenees — either in France or in Spain? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

Response:

Question:

Greetings, So… we’re back from a great MTB camping trip out to a place called Capp’s Crossing.  Its about 14 Miles south of Hiway 50 just past Placerville in the Sierra National Forest in California.   Nice small camp site next to a running stream.  The camp site was well maintained and there was lots to do (Rock Climbing, Hiking, Swimming, Fly Fishing, MTBing, Strategic Naping, etc.) The trails in the area are generally usage maintained logging and 4WD road.  Some of the road haven’t been maintained in years, are over grown and make for a wild, rather technical run which includes running over downed logs of various sizes, deep slit tracks, erosion berms, rock gardens and a couple of drop-offs. Riding these trails was a blast but it was the first time I had encountered deep, deep slit.  This stuff was fine as talc and about 3 inches deep.  Just running straight through it  kicked up clouds of dust that coated everthing.  Riding in this stuff was a challenge.  It offers substancial rolling resistance such that rolling  into it at speed would catch you off guard and almost throw you. Anyway,  riding through this stuff felt like my backend was loose.  It would feel like it was sliding around, sideways.  My rear WTB ‘raptors did great on the climbs but my guess is that the tread pattern is optimized for climbing (duh!) and not for holding laterally (therefore, you slide).  Cornering was tough too.  I think I started getting better traction on corners when I would lean the bike way over thereby engaging the outside edging knobs.  The big trick was to stay in front so you could breath.  Otherwise you were riding in a dust storm. So you would exit the slit bed and run smack into a rock garden. Sometimes uphill, sometimes down.  Boulders ranged in size from marbles to softball.  To add to the challenge, the garden was rutted where other 4WD have driven.  That made staying on the line you chose very hard – but fun.  You had to change techniques quickly and keep up the speed lest you lose momentum, stop and be cursed by you riding buddy behind you (who can’t see you through the dust). Now with this combo of terrain I tried to keep my front pressure up at around 40 and my rear at 35 or so. Correct my if I’m wrong but for the slit you want lower TP for more tire surface area and for the rocks you want a higher TP to prevent snake-bites.  Snake-bites aside, is it generally better to run a lower TP? 35 and 30? Lower?  Too low?  Also, anyone have a experience with realy soft slit?  Tips on bike handling? ( While you at it any tips on bike handling on fire road gravel – you know, sharp, crushed rock over hard pan.  I alway get the feeling my tires are breaking traction cause the rock just rolls.) Thanx,                 _Marc Marc E. Strohwig                                Opinion? Mine, mine, mine!! System Architect SEI SIG                                           Compuserve: 70613.502   FAX: (510) 645-3096

Response:

over downed logs of various sizes, deep slit tracks, erosion berms, … encountered deep, deep slit.  This stuff was fine as talc and about 3 … So you would exit the slit bed and run smack into a rock garden. … anyone have a experience with realy soft slit?  Tips on bike handling?

SILT. SILT. SILT. SILT. SILT. Slit: a long, narrow cut, tear or incision Silt: a sedimentary material composed of fine mineral particles (Sorry.  I don’t normally correct typos but when it is the subject of your message and you use it over and over again, it would be helpful if you spelled it right.  Same goes for the guy who wants "DISK BREAKS."  I think most of us would prefer to not break anything.) -Robin

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