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Well, it’s homecoming weekend here in Happy Valley, and those Fightin’ Illini are coming to town to see if they can’t treat the Nittany Lions the same way they did the Iowa Hawkeyes last weekend.  God, I hope not. For all the talk a few weeks ago regarding this game, a potential Autumn mini-clave here in central PA, and a few flames about OT posts– there are no plans for any fishing to actually taking place.  This is really too bad, because the weather is going to be perfect.  Not too cold, the leaves are past their prime but still beautiful, and the days are still reasonably long.  However, I have no idea how to catch trout on a fly in this weather… Ken, I tried and tried to find tickets between the 20s but to no avail.  I would really have enjoyed meeting and doing some Sunday fishing with you.  As luck would have it, none of the half-dozen folks who I *know* have tickets were willing to part with them or had already given them to somebody else–it is homecoming after all, even if the Nittany Lions are having a down year.  Ironically, my Aunt called my wife from work just this afternoon with an offer of two tickets to tomorrows game…  I have no idea if they are between the 20s, or even within sight of the field–hell, with a capacity of nearly 100,000 the term ‘nosebleed seats’ takes on some signifigance at Beaver Stadium. I believe that there are still plans being made for a spring clave on Penns Creek here in central PA.  I look forward to meeting you, Ken, and lots of other ROFFians then.  Too bad it won’t be football season. We Are Penn State! Tom Before you buy.

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Well, it’s homecoming weekend here in Happy Valley, and those Fightin’ Illini are coming to town …

I’ll be watchin’ the game on ESPN2, your Nittany Lions are 3 point favorites according the official ROFF Latest Line and once again Wayno has managed to wheedle an unreal point spread for his Tar Heels. Eighteen and one half friggin’ points he gets against Clemson, it’s a gawdamn Chardonnay conspiracy I tell ya. I believe that there are still plans being made for a spring clave on Penns Creek here in central PA.  I look forward to meeting you, Ken, and lots of other ROFFians then.  Too bad it won’t be football season. We Are Penn State!

Likewise, Tom. Enjoy your weekend and don’t let a little thing like a homecoming loss spoil your fun. Oskee Wow Wow ! — Ken Fortenberry- sluggin’ Bud and hatin’ 11 a.m. kickoffs

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Question:

        A friend of mine is looking for feathers/skins for some art she’s doing and I thought that someone on this list might have some that they would be willing to part with…                                 Thanks in advance                                 Kneil Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

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        Your friend should check a good fly fishing store. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

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Question:

I am looking for a literary agent to represent a book that I am writing for publication.  Any suggestions?  Thanks a bunch.  I never forget those who help me. — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill                                        http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                     Dragon’s Hope Publishing Heidi Dragon Churchill                                               Business cards, ad design, forms and all manner of desktop publishing.      

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I have not failed  I am a writter of peotry.  Need publishcation

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have not failed I have not failedDragon’s Hope Publishing I have not failedHeidi Dragon Churchill                                               I have not failedBusiness cards, ad design, forms and all manner of desktop publishing.       I have not failed                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

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[snip] : I guess they figure the writing chores should be left lot the giants of : the industry, like Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh.  <sigh I feel for ya.  But writers like Stern aren’t the really sad cases.  You may not like him, but he has talent.  You try talking off the top of your head every day and maintaining the attention of a million listeners.  I have a hard time some days with 200 in a classroom, and they pay to be there.  Stern can tell a story. The real sad ones are the cases like this woman bomber pilot recently resigned from the Air Force.  She disobeys a direct order from her superior and gets a large advance to write a book about it.  Shameless. The author, the publisher and the editor. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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I am looking for a literary agent to represent a book that I am writing for publication.  Any suggestions?  Thanks a bunch.  I never forget those who help me. — Flyfish NC Gordon Churchill                                        http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853

Gordon, I’ve been trying to get an agent to read my novel "Blue Ice" for over a year.  I’ve got 75 rejections, and only a handful (5) even accepted the first 25 manuscript pages.  I have no idea how many of those actually even read the first page. I guess they figure the writing chores should be left lot the giants of the industry, like Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh.  <sigh As a musician friend frequently reminds me that all I need to do is get up in that bell tower with my deer rifle, and I’ll have a book deal within 48 hours.   Yes, I’m cynical.  I’m probably also paranoid.  But then, just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they aren’t all out to get you. — Mark Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297/fishing.htm Mark Cahill’s Fishing New England – Daily Fishing News http://www.reel-time.com/ The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing – Metropolitan Boston Regional Editor

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Question:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I understand that the Cherokee was never built on a truck chassis, a remanufactured car chassis was used. As for me, my 1978 4×4 Chevy Blazer with 264,000 miles with tattered seats but Michelin radials provides me with all the back country access I could ever want.

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Another dissatisfied Cherokee (1988) owner here.  To be fair, I purchased mine just before American Motors was purchased by Chrysler.  Anyway, the engine crapped out before 50K miles, and it had been cared for in a manner better than was recommended in the owner’s manual.  Also, I had an extended warranty on the vehicle (paid extra for of course).  Anyway, the "adjuster" from Chrysler reviewed my claim and disallowed it because "it was obviously abused or it wouldn’t have had the problem."  Went round and round, countless letters, I replaced the engine (at my cost) and vowed I would never purchase another (now) Chrysler product, ever!!  Later, I read in a news account about the numbers of Jeeps that had similar problems.  I now have a Toyota 4Runner, with no complaints after 90K+ miles.  Change the oil every 3K miles, follow recommended maintenance, new gas once a week and air the tires once a month.  It runs and runs and runs….. — Ron Eaton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Your brother’s pickup reminds me of a 1970 Datsun pickup I bought in 1980 for $500.  The speedometer had broken at 100K and it was beat up, but the engine purred like a kitten.  It was the same engine they used in the 280Z sports car.  I fixed the dents, slapped a coat of paint on it, installed some shocks, king pins, tires, and a set of brakes, then took it fishing all over the Sierra Nevada Mountains in Northern California for the next ten years.  It went every place a road crossed a trout stream.  There wasn’t much head room and I kept the seat belt tight because the overload springs could put your head through the roof, and I didn’t lean on the door because a sharp bump could put the window crank through your rib cage, but it was a great fishing vehicle.  Finally sold it to a guy for $500 who wanted it for his gardening business. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

I used to take mine off road but don’t so much anymore since I got my D90. The Cherokee did OK off road though. FWIW. Charlie…

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Driving on a salt water beach will raise hell with most vehicles unless you hose it down thoroughly with fresh water when you are through.  We drove down the beach in Northern California to go smelt dipping and perch fishing with a jeep, but always hosed it down and never had a problem.  Of course this was in 1948.:-) — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Sorry this message is not related to 4X4’s (but I will be driving a 98 Dodge real soon) rather I wqs wondering if anyone from Alberta"Canada used this newsgroup? And I am in the market for a new 4-5 weight 81/2 foot rod? Any good sug?  Anyway…have fun and may the trout rise…(corny).

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

Hell I drive a Taurus Sedan myself. It pulls up nicely to the lots that are only a few steps or a short walk down into the stream I seen a neat little comic about 4 wheel drive, something in the order when the guy was ready to pull out of a supermarket, he felt it was time to put it in 4 wd to go over a speed bump.  Sounds like most of the 4wd’s in our area…. — Randy P.E.T.A. people eating tasty animals

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If you want a reliable vehicle buy a Toyota 4WD pickup — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. T. Rick Fletcher  

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My "fish car" is a five year old Toyota 4X4 pickup. Total maintenance costs (so far) consists of oil, filters, and one set of tires. Goes anywhere and always starts.   My wife drives the hated Grand Cherokee. I’d take it fishing if she’d let me, it’s more comfortable and more powerful than my Toyota, and the stereo really cranks. I think the Jeep straight six is one tough motor, it’s the niggling details (power windows, A/C) that keep it in the shop.   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure, we’re going FISHING by golly, and we ain’t a couple of downtown dudes in a goll-dern Range Rover. Charlie, going shopping for a beater.

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Somehow you didn’t strike me as one who would fall for the hype in CR. You don’t really believe that crap that they spew do you?

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I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere any of the vehicles already mentioned will go. I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.                                                            -dnc-

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  I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The   Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two   major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I   thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere   any of the vehicles already mentioned will go.

If this vehicle is so great, why are you bothering to defend it on this anonymous forum?  A 2 year old vehicle with "2 major problems" – by what crazy definition is that a good investment or vehicle?  I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.

I didn’t realize that it is required that one has to be a complete ass to buy one of these.   Take this crap over to the 4×4 newsgroups.  It is of no relevance to flyfishing. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

Consumer reports bases it’s ratings on reader responses – ie if you complain to them. Phil Edmonstons "Lemon Aide" guide uses the manufacturers own Maintenance service bulletins that advise dealers exactly what sort of problems are being reported from the field. However this guide is generally negative on the Cherokee. Phil likes to say when confronted by experience like yours Charlie: "goes to prove you can’t always make a bad car!    " Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Tim, I’ve got a Cherokee that’s a few years old and I’ve had zero problems with it.  The big concern with me was the apparent thinness of the brake rotors that had to be replaced if they were turned too much by over-enthusiastic repairmen.  The 1996 models have thicker rotors that withstand the turning a lot better.  All the Jeep owners that I know love them and the only dis-satisfied owners I know, 3, were Grand Cherokee owners. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick

Rick, I sold my V-6 Blazer with 139,000 miles to help pay for my Jeep with 50,000 on it.  I owned the Blazer for 9 years, that was long enough.  In the last two years, new ball joints, radiator, gas tank, etc., etc., but never touched the engine or tranny.  I saw the buyer the other day and he said it’s going great. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one.

  I will entertain $10,000 for my 87  ;-) Harry

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   I too have the loathed Cherokee.  I took a lot of ribbing from my father when I bought it.  He has a pickup.  It ended when I showed him what I paid.  Compared to his full-sized pickup, the Cherokee was practically cheap. I spend a lot of time in the backcountry, can only afford one automobile, and need more passenger space than a pickup. I shopped around, and the Cherokee (not the GRAND Cherokee) is the best value around. Sure, if you never take it off road, you might as well buy a minivan.  Although have you seen the prices on mini-vans – EEK maybe that’s why SUV’s are so popular? My $0.02,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

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. . .  it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders,

People who take their fishing values from pictures are like people who value their food according to how it looks in pictures.  Most fly anglers are thinking people, and what thinking person rates enjoyment (music or mountaineering) by photographs? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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 Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart?

Yup, I have to confess. Back in 87 my wife and kids gave me a K-Mart Browning 8 1/2 ft. 6 weight for my birthday. It was kinda of hard to act surprised in a good way but I believe I pulled it off. Now I love that rob and there’s not a dab of cork on the thing. I’m off to the Cherokee National Forest next week and guess which rod’s going along——it’s already in the, well, Cherokee. Cheers, Randy Giles

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. Oh, and I forgot that it is impossible to catch fish unless you have every new thing on the market. I kno tha there are some who are in it to have a chalenging way of catching fish, but alot of the "fly fishers" are just yuppies. I can tell that most in this newsgroup are not that way, so I want your input. Thanks. BryceC

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble . When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. your input. Thanks. BryceC

I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting to back-county brookie waters.  And yes, after 20+ years of fishing with a Shakespeare I bought at K-Mart, it started coming apart at the ferrule, and I went to Beans’s outlet and bought a marked-down Guide rod.  I did have an earlier thread complaining that I’m hard pressed to see the improvement over the Shakespeare, fine equipment can be had without spending a lot of money.  As for the waders, I skip them in the summer, but if I’m not in a boat or canoe this time of year, the water’s too cold without them. The thing that really sets me apart, though, is I still eat trout on occasion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:45:46 -0600, c…@inav.net (Ken Wessels) wrote: >In article <5inhga…@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra >Stoddart) wrote: >> In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, >> mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >> >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >> >women out there in a simular situation? >> Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few >> weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can >> blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you >> still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with >> your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you >> want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive >> the marriage. >> — >>               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >>                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S. >  You didn’t answer this guys’ question. But perhaps it doesn’t need >answering.

It did not really require answering.  Of course their are women out there in similar circumstances >The fact is that finding someone to romance with isn’t like a >shopping trip and in the "rat race" of the USA I don’t see how anyone >could find time!

Rat race?  Yes, it can be.  Which is why I shifted work goals.  Not so much money, but enough.  I have decided that the $28,000 car is not all that more uncomfortable than the $60,000 car.  I no longer have arguments with a peer group who spent much of their time stressed and unhappy.  Now, I actually have time to be with my wife and kids.  I can go fishing, play with my 3 dogs, talk to a friend instead of a business associate, and watch the bluejays fly about my yard. I think many of the problems that occur in marriages revolve around work.  A person must earn a living to eat and provide shelter. But I am thinking of a couple I saw a few weeks ago.  I was having lunch with my lawyer, a matter of my mother’s living will, and we were watching a couple at the next table.  About 30, I would say at a glance.  They spent the whole lunch rapidly trying to exchange information.  The kid’s schedule, day care problem, dentist appointment, etc.  Talked very quickly, glancing at watches often. They were interrupted from time to time by a beeper or cell phone call.  The food was very good but I don’t think they noticed.  At one point they bickered loudly over money.  I thought this was curious as both were dressed expensively in the latest style,  she was wearing a great deal of jewelry, and both had arrived, separately, in expensive cars. In comes another couple.  Man arrives in his work truck, a repairman of some type, jeans and flannel shirt a little worn.  Wife shows up in a Voyager, not new, with 3 kids.  All well but modestly dressed.  A family meeting for lunch.  Big thing for the kids.  They squealed and ran to Dad who grabbed them.  All sat and chatted about unimportant things.  You know, who had fell and skinned a knee, when could they go to the amusement park, etc.  While ordering their meal there was discussion about keeping it simple as mom didn’t want the price to be too high.  The mom and dad chatted quietly together while the kids ate,  couldn’t hear what they were saying but they were holding hands and exchanged small kisses several times. The first couple, glanced at the family a couple of times in annoyance, the children were happily loud.  And as the father passed there table at one point, I saw them both glance at his work boots which were well worn and needed some polish desparately. When the first couple got up to leave, they quickly pecked each other on the lips then walked, each in their own direction without glancing back at the other.  In a hurry.   My lawyer commented to me that he not once, in listening to their conversation, heard them actually talk to each other about each other. He told me that after lunch, he was cancelling some appointments.  He had decided he wanted to go home and see his wife.  No particular reason, just wanted to see her.  We have known each other for some time.  He commented that he still had an old flannel shirt in his closet and wondered if it still fit. Sometimes we create our own rat race. >   However, you imply that divorce, alimony and child support will follow >such a romance. That is a "scare tactic" and many people are never found >out in these extra marita romances, especially the women.

I don’t believe the person meant any scare tactic.  Just being realistic.  A very old and simple statement is ‘If you plan to play, you should plan to pay.’ True some people are not found out.  Others are.  But how much does a person want to gamble for some sex?  I love to have sex but there is only so far I would go for something which only lasts an hour or so. I remember one lady I met on a trip to Hawaii many years ago when I was single.  She had a minor role in a movie being filmed.  She was very beautiful and sexy…and she knew it.  Why she picked me I don’t know, I suspect that I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.  Besides her looks, she was a very horny person and for three days, when she was not otherwise occupied we had sex at every opportunity and she had no inhibitions at all. The sex was fantastic.  I very much enjoyed it.  But after 3 days I changed my travel plans and left.  The problem was that I couldn’t stand the woman, except in bed.  I hated very time she spoke.  She was shallow, full of venom about others with whom she worked,  babbled on continuously about her hair and figure and how much time she had spent on them.  She complained about every nitpicking thing possible.  She told me repeatedly that I was a great lover but I was pretty sure that when she was away from me she probably told jokes about my pitiful efforts and shortcomings. Good sex wasn’t worth that much to me.  I flew to San Diego where I met a woman who was married, on a business trip, and lonely.  She was at the same hotel as I and wanted suggestions about things to see in San Diego.  I think she also wanted someone to talk with.  We spent quite some time here and there when she was not in meetings.  She was very easily impressed with the sights about town, bragged continuously about her husband and children.  Laughed as she told me about his many faults, which she considered cute.  Complained that she felt that she could be a better business woman if only she tried harder.  Dwelled sadly on the fact that she was overweight and was amazed that her husband didn’t seem to notice.  She confessed to me that she wished she was a better lover for her husband.  He never complained but she knew that her skills were poor.  She talked about this in depth one evening when she had too many drinks.  From the descriptions,  she had room for improvement. Too tipsy, we were talking in her room, she made it clear that she was both horny and interested in learning something new to surprise her husband with back home.  I put her off as gently as possible and instead gave her a back massage until she fell asleep.  She was embarassed the next day but I consoled her and took her to lunch before her plane left. I couldn’t take advantage of her.  It probably would not have harmed their marriage in any way.  I doubt that he would have ever known or suspected.  I rejected her offer for selfish reasons.  I found this woman so enormously sexy and arousing that I knew that if I had accepted her offer,  I would not have wanted to let her go again.  She would have had to reject me, and she would have after the sex no matter how much she might have enjoyed it,  because she had too many other good things back at home.  She would have gotten over it, my heart would have broken. This is a true story.  To this day I remember the second woman’s name and details.  I don’t remember the first woman’s name at all.  It has been 28 years. Great sex can be found in many places.  A great person is much harder to find. Just an opinion, Bob By the way,  I agree with the responder who expressed the opinion that extra marrital sex can be a workable solution, for some people, a very few, in a strong marriage.  If both partners are agreeable.  Without these things, you take your risks, and are fully deserving of the consequences.  Don’t complain here.  Try ALT.DIVORCE.I-DESERVE-THIS.OUCH.OUCH.OUCH or the ever popular alt.spurt.spurt.sigh.how-long-should-i-wait-before-leaving

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In article <5inhga…@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stoddart) wrote: > In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, > mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: > >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and > >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married > >women out there in a simular situation? > Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few > weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can > blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you > still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with > your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you > want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive > the marriage. > — >               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

  You didn’t answer this guys’ question. But perhaps it doesn’t need answering. The fact is that finding someone to romance with isn’t like a shopping trip and in the "rat race" of the USA I don’t see how anyone could find time!    However, you imply that divorce, alimony and child support will follow such a romance. That is a "scare tactic" and many people are never found out in these extra marita romances, especially the women. — visit me @ http://members.aol.com/cydonia102/private/ken.html

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>But the sex, when we have it is still very enjoyable.  And one of my >favorite joys is just seeing her pleasure.  I desire it more often >than we have it but there is a cure for this.  Ever hear of >masturbation?

I love how to-the-point you are. heh…yeah, if his urges cannot be met by masturbation then they obviously extend further than the sex drive – it could mean he has deep seated real problems with the marriage, or there has been a decrease in intimacy and not just sex. MG

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On 12 Apr 1997 08:35:22 GMT, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra Stoddart) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, >mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >>I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >>kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >>women out there in a simular situation? >Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few >weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can >blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you >still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with >your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you >want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive >the marriage. >– >              Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >                "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

You are correct IMHO. My first response to this post included no such alternative. Masturbation is my alternative solution if nothing else can be worked out to increase desire on her part.  Simply because the chances of severe problems with the other answer are so great.  And I have found that there are too many people who, once they hear such an alternative,  immediately jump into it as a solution. I have known a few couples for which it worked.  Where a wife or husband sought additonal sex outside the marriage.  In these cases, where it worked,  it was always an agreement between partners.  And, in the situations that I am aware of,  the problem was due to a difference in sex drives.  Not a matter of simple dissatisfaction with performance or effort. For instance one friend of mine was very happily married to a lady who enjoyed sex when she was in the mood.  Unfortunately, for him,  once a month was enough for her.  The once a month kept her happy, satisfied her needs and she was very happy with his performance. She was well aware that he wanted more and would cooperate in his need out of love for him.  However, she was well aware that although he didn’t complain,  sex was not the same when one partner is merely cooperating. In the end, she solved the problem.  She found a willing female friend and arranged the match and meetings.  Who this female friend was and the motivation for her, I don’t know, I never asked,  I felt that it was not my business.  Although I probably would have been told if I asked.  We were very good friends. This sort of thing is not the usual ‘cheating’ game. However, although I am in sort of the same circumstance with my wife who has a disability.  I do not find, personally, that such an arrangement is an acceptable one.  Although, to be frank, she has brought up the subject and told me she would understand.  I can’t do it.  I love her very much and don’t want to have the feelings with another women that I share with my wife.  I know that inevitably my emotions would be split.  I don’t enjoy sex without emotional exchange. This would not cause me to feel less for my wife. But I don’t want to share my emotions, at that level, with anyone else.  My own decision.  Not necessarily the only right one for someone else. Just my thoughts, Bob

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In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >women out there in a simular situation?

Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive the marriage. —               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

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On 11 Apr 1997 05:00:12 GMT, "mail.earthlink.net" <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >women out there in a simular situation?

I could not pass this up without a comment. Is your marriage based only on sex? My wife is partially disabled and although she is capable of enjoying sex, her need for it is much diminished and the pain caused by the muscle contractions when she climaxes cause her to limit this activity. But the sex, when we have it is still very enjoyable.  And one of my favorite joys is just seeing her pleasure.  I desire it more often than we have it but there is a cure for this.  Ever hear of masturbation? Bob

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I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married women out there in a simular situation?

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Bill–thank you for the clearest, most succinct piece of fishing advice I’ve seen recently in this group. I’m also going to the Bahamas for the first time next week and your advice was timely and valuable.

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I am planning my first bonefish trip to Abaco in April. Does anyone have a list of what to pack (stuff like sunscreen,etc.) to fish this area. I have never traveled to the Bahamas and would appreciate any suggestions. Also, any recommendations on clothing and fly patterns would be great. Thanks.

Jim, As of yet I have to wet a line in the southern salt.  However I attended a lefty Kreh seminar last year with a few good general tips, as follows: Find out what colour the bottom is where you are going.  Tie light coloured flies for a light bottom..  A dark bait would seem out of place in "nature" A few good flies in different sizes and colours are better than a vest of mix and match.. FInd out if the fish are being caught on a high or low tide and fish accordingly… Suncreen, suncreen and more suncreen… Ian

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I am planning my first bonefish trip to Abaco in April. Does anyone have a list of what to pack (stuff like sunscreen,etc.) to fish this area. I have never traveled to the Bahamas and would appreciate any suggestions. Also, any recommendations on clothing and fly patterns would be great. Thanks.

Start with a good hat that has a bill that is dark on the underside and has a chin strap for wind. Next, Polarized glasses that are not to dark and are in brown to yellow tones with a neck strap and side shields. Good sun screen is a must. I like very light weight long sleeve shirts and long pants for sun protection in light colors. Orvis, Streamline, Simms and Bare make about the same neoprene, thick soled flats booties that are the standard foot wear today. Most anglers are using #7, 8 and 9 weight outfits for bonefish depending on the wind, fly size and weight. We like leaders that a either hand tied or knotless that are ~ 9′ and clear with a stiff/hard consistency. If the wind is not blowing and the fish are spooky, I just add 3 to 5 feet of tippet and go down a size in flies. I recommend Cortland or SA saltwater lines for the hotter weather. In the Bahamas they use light colored Nasty Charlies that were developed there by Bob Nauheim of Santa Rosa ( Fishing International). The McVay Gotcha is very popular and Lefty Kreh really promotes the chartruese/white Clouser minnows. You might bring some small light colored crabs?  We use smaller/lighter flies in shallow water ( #6/8), medium weight/size flies(#4/6) for average depths(12 to 18") and larger/heavier flies( #2) with lead eyes for deeper water or current drift from tide movement. Take something to clean the salt spray from you glasses. I use a fanny pack if we are going for a long walk on the flats. Bring a small water resistant camera, batteries and film. I use a big stainless steel combo forcepts/cutter that will pinch the barbs, cut leader/tippet and remove deeply hooked flies. I hope that all anglers could have one nice day on the flats with the bonefish. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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I am planning my first bonefish trip to Abaco in April. Does anyone have a list of what to pack (stuff like sunscreen,etc.) to fish this area. I have never traveled to the Bahamas and would appreciate any suggestions. Also, any recommendations on clothing and fly patterns would be great. Thanks.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup. snip We still love you John. TimW The reference to Ted Williams was my selection for "who would you like to spend a day fishing with" — hardly a thread but I suppose they were trolling for references to their magazine. Now that I think of it, there aren’t many magazine references in ROFF or ROFFT. I certainly spend a lot more time these days fishing, tying and surfing the net and a lot less time reading magazines and watching TV. I cancelled FR&R last year and still haven’t read the September Fly Fisherman, let alone the just received December issue (don’t want to ruin the suspense by reading the November election results).

Me too.  The glossy magazines interest me little anymore.  There has to be something really worthwhile in an issue to buy one.   These newsgroups are much, much better. They are reader driven and not writer driven, in general.  In other words, ask and ye shall receive.  That is REAL value.  I’d just as soon not see the ng’s and the magazines cross paths, myself. TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup. snip We still love you John. TimW The reference to Ted Williams was my selection for "who would you like to spend a day fishing with" — hardly a thread but I suppose they were trolling for references to their magazine. Now that I think of it, there aren’t many magazine references in ROFF or ROFFT. I certainly spend a lot more time these days fishing, tying and surfing the net and a lot less time reading magazines and watching TV. I cancelled FR&R last year and still haven’t read the September Fly Fisherman, let alone the just received December issue (don’t want to ruin the suspense by reading the November election results). Me too.  The glossy magazines interest me little anymore.  There has to be something really worthwhile in an issue to buy one.   These newsgroups are much, much better. They are reader driven and not writer driven, in general.  In other words, ask and ye shall receive.  That is REAL value.  I’d just as soon not see the ng’s and the magazines cross paths, myself. TimW

I still get value from the two magazines I get, FF in Salt Waters and Saltwater FF, though it certainly is different from what we have here ! I think SWFF is still new enough in printed word that the zines haven’t become too repetitive, although I think there is definitely a danger of this happening in the future. If I digress to the whole George Resign stuff, and I hate to do so, it seems to me that the magazine format would have been much better for him, having the ‘writer driven’ nature that Tim alludes to. The glossies are great places for established, experienced fishermen to convey information that the reader can take or leave. Which of course means the ngs are much more fun !                                                 jc

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Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup.

hmmmmmm…. 8^) TimW

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Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup.

It’s like the researcher that does a lifes work and it ends up in a University filing cabinet…then some beer swillin’ jet-setter with a word processor comes along and hacks out an article in an afternoon (you get a mention in the biblio) and the next thing you know he’s doing book signings at the fern bar. We still love you John. TimW

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For those that haven’t seen it, the most recent issue of Fly Rod & Reel contains a seven page article on Flyfishing and the Internet. I did a brief scan of the article and it primarily talks about various web sites and includes a pretty extensive list of sites and describes some of the bigger sites such as Virtual Fly Shop, and several others. There is also a short section on "mailing lists and non-profit sites" (hint to commercial advertisers in r.o.f.f.) which includes a couple of short references to this newsgroup.  Here’s how they described us… "Sometimes outrageous and always interesting, the newsgroup is worth a regular stop.  The last time I checked there were threads on the influx of newcomers to Montan (don’t leave your California-plated car alone at night), on women fly fishers and on the work of FR&R conservation editor Ted Williams [ does anyone remember this last thread? - john].  There was also a considerable section written have thread with cow magnet haiku? Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup. snip We still love you John. TimW

The reference to Ted Williams was my selection for "who would you like to spend a day fishing with" — hardly a thread but I suppose they were trolling for references to their magazine. Now that I think of it, there aren’t many magazine references in ROFF or ROFFT. I certainly spend a lot more time these days fishing, tying and surfing the net and a lot less time reading magazines and watching TV. I cancelled FR&R last year and still haven’t read the September Fly Fisherman, let alone the just received December issue (don’t want to ruin the suspense by reading the November election results). Doug

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a

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For the first time I got skunked on the Deerfield yesterday, by the hell I couldn’t figure out what the trout were going for yesterday. Saw a guy catching a trout and tried his fly and they didn’t even spend a look on this fly. Only one wet spend me two hits which I lost immediately. Looking for guys who caught yesterday consistently trout and who can tell me for what pattern they go for in the moment. Thomas

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Thomas,     A first time net surfer, I noticed that you are a fellow Bostonian with an interest in fly-fishing.  I typically go to Vermont to fly-fish (White River, Waits River, etc.).  However, it seems from your e-mail that there is good fishing in Mass, specifically the Deerfield River.   Could you possibly suggest a specific location on the river that may be a good place to try, some fly patterns and any other relevant other info on the deerfield or any other river within a proximity of Boston?     Look forward to hearing from you

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Thomas,    A first time net surfer, I noticed that you are a fellow Bostonian with an interest in fly-fishing.  I typically go to Vermont to fly-fish (White River, Waits River, etc.).  However, it seems from your e-mail that there is good fishing in Mass, specifically the Deerfield River.   Could you possibly suggest a specific location on the river that may be a good place to try, some fly patterns and any other relevant other info on the deerfield or any other river within a proximity of Boston?    Look forward to hearing from you

Yes, you’re right, there is great fishing in Mass, too. The Deerfield has two catch and release areas which have optimal water temps=  even during this hot summer (the water comes from the bottom release of a dam, so the water didn’t have more than about 68F this su= mmer). Thw two C/R areas are located above route 2 (MA). If you’re coming from North Adams (MA) on Route 2 you will pass the Mohawk = Trail campground. Only a few hundred yards after the entrance to the campground the goes an intersection to the left with a sign for=  the Yankee atomic power plant. Go this street, follow it about a mile. At the next crossing go to the left and then underneath the = tunnel. Then you are back at the Deerfield river. On the left hand side the C&R area II is located. There are many places where you = can park your car. If you drive further along the road next to the stream you will cross the deerfield river and a few miles later you will cross track= s. This is the begin of C&R-area II. Read the sign after the tracks on your right! The first good spot is right here. If you climb d= own to the Deerfield you have a nice run upstream and a larger pool a few ft downstream. You are often alone at this spot although t= he fishing here is very good. If you go further along the street a few miles the street comes down to the river. The river makes here a left turn (you cant see it=  from the street, because a small forest is in between). Underneath the riffle (called Rainbow run) there is a big pool. You can fin= d almost always fisherman there, because the fishing here is pretty good. Most poeple fish only directly under the run, but it’s wor= th to go downstream. It’s usually less crowded there and the pool, which is very long, holds large sized trout. If you go further on the street (about 3/4 of a mile) there is a dirt road to the right. Go there carefully (street is in pretty bad=  shape). You will find there a nice run to fish (you can really see the trout and choose a specific one to fish; come early on weeke= nds, many fisherman like to fish this run) and a good pool underneath (which I like to fish by far the most, because less people are=  fishing here and I saw almost always when I went to this spot this year rises in this pool). If you have further yestions, send me an email. You will also find a good description of those areas in the book about Mass Troutfis= hing from Trout Unlimited with a detailed map and hints for fishing. Have fun,  Thomas

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The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

Ditto.  I had more hookups while playing the game for 3 minutes than I’ve had on my previous 3-4 days on the McCloud.  Well, for $50, you don’t want to be skunked! Frank Holminski’s (sp?) response was that this game reflects the seasonal hatches and conditions you’ll encounter on this great river.  So, the buy the game and you shouldn’t have any zero-fish days — although I heard nothing about a money-back guarantee! I must admit, at the San Mateo show last weekend, whenever someone got a hookup, and you’d hear the ol’ reel scream through the PC speakers, that attracted more bystanders, as well as getting your adrenaline going!   For us Mac users, Frank says a Mac version may be developed later if they can get funding…my God, is not even flyfishing exempt from "vaporware"? Bill Uyeki

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Yeah, got sucked into it myself.  In fact, my buddy bought me a copy.  I don’t find it a problem to run it outside of windows.  Alt+M to lose the music.  Can’t wait for new fishing holes, and maybe some different tunes. Chatted the whole thing up with Frank H. while I was there.  Cool game. The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

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Many people think the Fly Fishing the McCloud River Game is CD ROM when they see it demonstrated. It is not but to get the great scans and animation that truly give the feel for dead driting an Adams or nymphing with a PT,  the game’s program uses approx 550 K of conventional memory while running.  This requires a memory mgt solution such as memmaker. The program is only 2.7 meg.  The game was the show stopper at the San Mateo ISO this past week, just ask Lefty DH

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Does anyone have any experience or comments about  this product?

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p because you need a config.sys with virtually nothing else configured for the program to run.  Once going, is challenging and fun.  Without sound, is hard to judge when fish are running.  Good luck.

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Within San Francisco city limits is Lake Merced.   Dont Waste ypur time even considering Lake Merced in the Summer.  The fishing is KILLER in the winter though. Across the Bay Bridge is San Pablo Reservoir. A MUCH better prospect. Lots more water and the algae isn’t the same problem that it is at Lake Merced in the summer.  By the Way….. I am told that San Pablo is managed by "That Dam Co.",the same folks that manage Lake Merced.  They stock with the standard state planters as well as the Lassen Broodstock fish. The big slugs are the Lassen fish. But in July, the fishing is great in the Sierra, so I’ll be there. Happy fishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My fiance and I will be honeymooning in the S.F. area between July 4 and July 16, 1994.  We would like to do some fishing (maybe 1 or 2 days) while there.  I fly fish, she doesn’t (but she’s willing to learn).  We’d prefer to not spend a fortune, but if a guide is the only way to insure a fairly successful outing then we’ll certainly consider one.  We are looking for fresh water, trout or possibly bass. Within San Francisco city limits is Lake Merced.  It is stocked with Rainbows and catches in the 3 to 8 pound range are not uncommon.  The fishing is usually good to very good and the price is right.  Across the Bay Bridge is San Pablo Reservoir.  It is stocked with trout and small mouth bass.  Fishing from shore is usually productive, especially around the dam, but fishing from boat is definitely better.  Boats are available for rent but, if you go on the weekend, get their early. If you want to get away from the urban areas, take a trip north to the little town of Anderson.  Rent a rowboat and fish the river just south of Anderson for Rainbows in the 8-12 pound range.

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My fiance and I will be honeymooning in the S.F. area between July 4 and July 16, 1994.  We would like to do some fishing (maybe 1 or 2 days) while there.  I fly fish, she doesn’t (but she’s willing to learn).  We’d prefer to not spend a fortune, but if a guide is the only way to insure a fairly successful outing then we’ll certainly consider one.  We are looking for fresh water, trout or possibly bass.  Any help would be appreciated.  Please respond by e-mail if possible.  Thanks. —

The other posting is correct.  If you are around for a few days, suggest you go outside of SF to the Sierras.  Remarkably I have just published a Guide to the Desolation Wilderness which is near Lake Tahoe and makes a nice stop with a fiance.  Guide available from Frank Amato pub 1-800-541-9498

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My fiance and I will be honeymooning in the S.F. area between July 4 and July 16, 1994.  We would like to do some fishing (maybe 1 or 2 days) while there.  I fly fish, she doesn’t (but she’s willing to learn).  We’d prefer to not spend a fortune, but if a guide is the only way to insure a fairly successful outing then we’ll certainly consider one.  We are looking for fresh water, trout or possibly bass.  Any help would be appreciated.  Please respond by e-mail if possible.  Thanks. —

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