Question:

The Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers (MWFF) have their monthly meeting this July 9, with Jeff Morgan giving a show about the Yellowstone area as the featured presentation. Jeff gave an excellent presentation about fishing the Cascades to the MWFF about 1 year ago, and has been getting around to many Oregon fly fishing clubs. For more information, please see:      http://www.ovra.com/mwff and grab our July newsletter and club brochure (for time/place/directions info). Thomas Gilg

Response:

Jeff’s presentation on Yellowstone is outstanding.  He put it on up this earlier this year.  It would be worth the drive to see it again.   He talked about  the smaller streams and waters off the tourist path waters in Yellowstone.  Anyone (  even if you think you may never go to Yelowstone ) around that part of the world should show up for his talk.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers (MWFF) have their monthly meeting this July 9, with Jeff Morgan giving a show about the Yellowstone area as the featured presentation. Jeff gave an excellent presentation about fishing the Cascades to the MWFF about 1 year ago, and has been getting around to many Oregon fly fishing clubs. For more information, please see:      http://www.ovra.com/mwff and grab our July newsletter and club brochure (for time/place/directions info). Thomas Gilg

Response:

Question:

Chaps             I live in the Aylesbury  /  Oxford area, and I’m seeking people’s recommendations re small still waters in this area. I have visited but not fished Vicarage Spinney and Barnes Lakes.  I have fished Church Hill and Lakeside, as well as Alders Farm. I DON"T WANT TO HEAR PEOPLE"S OPINIONS RE CONCRETE BOWL RESERVOIRES, thank you My favourite water is John O’Gaunt in Hampshire, but it’s too far aay for a day trip. I’d like to find something like JOG, but closer to home, say 30-40 mins drive max,  I want to fish, not drive, as a hobby. If anyone can recommend a good venue, I’d be very grateful, and maybe even see you there sometime. There are too few good venues around here, and I only have "Trout Fisherman" guide to go by, which is OK but a bit limited. So ??  please come back to me if you’ve a secret haunt you’d be willing to share, best wishes,

Response:

You are welcome to Join me ( as a guest for

Question:

Our Sir Louie goes by many handles but he just acquied a new one today – "Captain Carp."  We *were*supposed to be steelhead fishing but carp proved to be a bigger attraction. He caught him on a #12 stonefly at the base of the dam in Caledonia. Peter

Response:

Yes and Joe F. caught a small mouth by the tail while salmon fishing on friday, Opppps oh no it’s a sucker ( 12" sucker ) Vern

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our Sir Louie goes by many handles but he just acquied a new one today – "Captain Carp."  We *were*supposed to be steelhead fishing but carp proved to be a bigger attraction. He caught him on a #12 stonefly at the base of the dam in Caledonia. Peter

Response:

Yes and Joe F. caught a small mouth by the tail while salmon fishing on friday, Opppps oh no it’s a sucker ( 12" sucker )

Yep, it’s true.   Not that I could deny it, since I caught it just updtream of the bridge in front of a dozen witnesses.  (Just don’t start calling me "Captain Sucker".)   Joe F. (Good, now I can leave that out of my trip report.)

Response:

the bridge in front of a dozen witnesses.  (Just don’t start calling me "Captain Sucker".)   Joe F. (Good, now I can leave that out of my trip report.)

Since this won’t be part of the trip report we just hafta ask the questions here! What kinda fly were you using while sucker fishing? Were you sucker fishing down and across, upstream-dead-drift, downstream with a twitching retrieve? What’s a sucker fishing license cost in NY?  Where are the best waters to sucker fish?!  Do you know America’s best sucker fishing rivers? And, lastly, for those who are sure to ask.  What weight sucker fishing rod were you using?  What is the best sucker fishing line? What reel do you recommend for sucker fishing? — Wayne (just helping you to keep it all in one bucket, Joe!) To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

I know that you specifically wanted a rod of 7′ or longer, but my recommendation is actually a bit smaller.   For several years G. Loomis manufactured a 6′ 6" 3 weight that was superb.   It was an IM6 rod, designated the 783.   The blank was available for $78, and I built quite a number of them for myself and for friends.   The rod was a truly superb casting tool, and while it was at its best doing 20-25 foot rapid casts fishing dries in pocket water, it actually had the backbone to lay out 50 feet of line or better at need.     You can still find the blanks from time to time, and I’d highly recommend them.   I believe that Loomis actually produced this blank in one of the newer series with a higher modulus graphite, but I haven’t personally used one.                                 Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Vern, I can tell you that most of the small rods that a under $300 won’t load up with a #2 or #3 line. If a rod is rated #2/3 and needs a #4 line to load it up at 30′, well it is a 4 weight rod. I would buy a small reel and put on a double taper 2 or 3 floating line and then go find a rod 8′ or less that cast it well. You will have fun with this rod. If money is no object, I would look at the Sage 8′ 2" #2 SPL or the Winston 7′6" #2 IM6. If you have about $2,100 to spend, I would get a Winston split cane 7′6" #4 for small streams? I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.   Vern  ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/     v   {—} Before you buy.

Response:

Why? Vern U. i speak, of course, of the one, the only, thomas & thomas!  don’t make no diff’rence about how long it is…just make sure it’s a thomas.

The esteemed barrister is correct on this one.. Cast a Paradigm, sweet forgiving moderate action which still allows for some booming. Cast a Vector, fast action rod with a forgiving tip, cast an LPS, almost nothing will lay a fly down as soft. The only company even close to them is Winston, IMO. In their many models, some of us think they are the best rods out there, better yet try and get your hands on a discontinued Heritage or XL model. Sadly, or gladly their marketing is not as good as the others and to a certain extent there a victim of their own arrogance but get your hands on one and you might well be…..changed. In this case you do get what you pay for. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

If money is no object, I would look at the Sage 8′ 2" #2 SPL or the Winston 7′6" #2 IM6.  If you have about $2,100 to spend, I would get a Winston split cane 7′6" #4 for small streams?

Bill, If money is no object then he needs to have Brackett custom make him a Winston Quadrate 7′#3 for $2,550 or if insists upon graphite get one of aren’t as good as T&T’s but those quads are something else. I’m sure you’re a fine fly shop owner but man it’s business, get a little greedier — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

Is this recommendation primarily price or performance driven? Vern U. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah, what he said.  Don’t you just hate metooers?  Seriously, the Cabela’s 3 Forks 7 footer is a sweet little rod and I picked up the combo on

Response:

Why? Vern U. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i speak, of course, of the one, the only, thomas & thomas!  don’t make no diff’rence about how long it is…just make sure it’s a thomas.

Response:

Hi Vern, I can tell you that most of the small rods that a under $300 won’t load up with a #2 or #3 line. If a rod is rated #2/3 and needs a #4 line to load it up at 30′, well it is a 4 weight rod. I would buy a small reel and put on a double taper 2 or 3 floating line and then go find a rod 8′ or less that cast it well. You will have fun with this rod. If money is no object, I would look at the Sage 8′ 2" #2 SPL or the Winston 7′6" #2 IM6.  If you have about $2,100 to spend, I would get a Winston split cane 7′6" #4 for small streams?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.   Vern  ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/     v   {—} Before you buy.

Response:

 I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks. Vern, last November, I purchased a St. Croix Legend Ultra 3wt

I built a 7.5′ 3wt rod from a Legend Ultra blank and agree that it is a nice rod for small streams. — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.   Vern Vern: I’ll give you a recommendation you’ve seen before – the Cabela’s Three Forks 7.5′ three piece, with reel, line and backing for around $50 as I recall.  The other recommendations I’ve seen are good, but at that price you will not believe the quality of that rod.  John Popp got me in to this, and I haven’t seen him post recently – guess it’s up to me to carry the Cabela’s banner for a while.  I’ve got Winstons and Scotts that are great, but when you compare the price…. Mark Faulkner

        well, now, vern, ol man, you can either listen to marky boy, here (he’s a lawyer, you know…hell, what’s worse is, he is a goddam *yankee* lawyer, and you know how little you can trust *those* bastards!  btw, have i told you the story of the lawyer and the priest and the…), and all these other well-meaning slugs; *or* you can forget all about these cheap noodle sticks and get you an honest to god *fly rod*:  i speak, of course, of the one, the only, thomas & thomas!  don’t make no diff’rence about how long it is…just make sure it’s a thomas. wayno, paragon of objectivity – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.   Vern Vern: I’ll give you a recommendation you’ve seen before – the Cabela’s Three Forks 7.5′ three piece, with reel, line and backing for around $50 as I recall.  The other recommendations I’ve seen are good, but at that price you will not believe the quality of that rod.  John Popp got me in to this, and I haven’t seen him post recently – guess it’s up to me to carry the Cabela’s banner for a while.  I’ve got Winstons and Scotts that are great, but when you compare the price…. Mark Faulkner         well, now, vern, ol man, you can either listen to marky boy, here (he’s a lawyer, you know…hell, what’s worse is, he is a goddam *yankee* lawyer, and you know how little you can trust *those* bastards!  btw, have i told you the story of the lawyer and the priest and the…), and all these other well-meaning slugs; *or* you can forget all about these cheap noodle sticks and get you an honest to god *fly rod*:  i speak, of course, of the one, the only, thomas & thomas!  don’t make no diff’rence about how long it is…just make sure it’s a thomas. wayno, paragon of objectivity

Vern, you can take wayno’s advise, but be forewarned. You will be taking advise from a temporal filament of a Harry Crews novel. I shake you not. I have witnessed this man, he is the hawk is dying, childhood, car, and gospel singer rolled into one very effusive melodramatic personality. After all, he’s darwinian waldo, paragon of fiction — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

I’ve heard that the inexpensive lower wt rods have a problem loading correctly.  Does anyone else have a problem with this?  How about the Diamondback Classic Trout 2 piece 7′ 9" 2 wt or 3 wt rod?  I saw it on ezflyfish.com for $430.  Now that Diamondback is associated with Cortland, does any one know if the prices will stay the same? Vern U. Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve heard that the inexpensive lower wt rods have a problem loading correctly.  Does anyone else have a problem with this?  How about the Diamondback Classic Trout 2 piece 7′ 9" 2 wt or 3 wt rod?  I saw it on ezflyfish.com for $430.  Now that Diamondback is associated with Cortland, does any one know if the prices will stay the same? Vern U. Before you buy.

ok Vern, you sucked me in to this tempest. Without journeying down the perilous path of the merits of a 50 or 60 dollar outfit, let it be understood, that those outfits are "great" in price. Performance is another matter that is best determined in the hands of the berodder. IMO, the Diamondback Classic Trout will be too slow for you. It is a rod that performs admirably on the small streams here in the east but for the large Western rivers (and I’m assuming that is what you are buying for) I would go with a faster rod. The All-American is a beat or two faster and economically priced. The VSR and Aero-flex are faster rods that would serve you well on Western rivers. There isn’t much press here in America for the Hardy Graphites. Their downfall of course is not offering a lifetime warranty which in all likelihood will be changing soon. With that said, I’ve fished all of their models and I’d rate them very, very good. The Ultralite Plus is fast, in fact, way too fast for the small stream fishing that I do. I was more comfortable with the Ultralite and the Featherlite models here. Addressing your last question, I’d be very surprised to see a lowering of price on the Diamondback line. Perusing the latest pricing literature, it does appear that the 1998-99 prices will remain the same through the 2000 season. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Mu, if it is in Albuquerque, it is the same.  Bob started his shop about 3 years ago, I think, to supplement his rod building.  I haven’t seen a net page yet but if I do, I’ll send it to you. DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish a lot in New Mexico which is the land of small streams.  Bob Widgren of Los Pinos Rods in Albuquerque is fairly famous locally for his nice work, especially the short rods. If he’s associated with Los Pinos Fly Shop, just gotta say they were the first fly shop where I walked in and felt really welcome. Mu

Response:

 I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.   Vern  ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/     v   {—} Before you buy.

I fish a lot in New Mexico which is the land of small streams.  Bob Widgren of Los Pinos Rods in Albuquerque is fairly famous locally for his nice work, especially the short rods.  I have a 7′ 4wt and an 8′ 5wt that are Powell blanks.  Bob uses a different blank now and will build you just about anything you want.  His prices are right in line with factory also.  The 7′ is a wonderful little wand for wading down a willow canopied stream (Rio in NM!).  The Cimarron River from Eagles Nest Dam through the canyon is a perfect place for these little rods.  I purchased this year a Scott 7 1/2′ 3wt STS which is really nice.  It is a faster rod than my Scott PowrPly but is not too fast.  I don’t think they are going to make this rod anymore which is a shame. Hope that helped. DP

Response:

 I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.   Vern  ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/     v   {—} Before you buy.

Response:

 I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.

Sounds like cane water to me but if you insist upon plastic… Any Winston IM6, T&T LPS, or if you can fine one, the Sage LL’s would treat you right. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

bc, I got a #3 Teton for spring. They coil the line up in neat little loops, just how I like it ! (not) I regret not getting the #4 for my 3wt rod instead. No complaints about the quality or overall performance though, a couple of 3-4lb hen rainbows last November got me into the backing, the little Teton must have been doing 15,000rpm! A number of people have commented on the reel, thinking it was a toy, or an ornament. Cheers John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

 I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.   Vern

Vern: I’ll give you a recommendation you’ve seen before – the Cabela’s Three Forks 7.5′ three piece, with reel, line and backing for around $50 as I recall.  The other recommendations I’ve seen are good, but at that price you will not believe the quality of that rod.  John Popp got me in to this, and I haven’t seen him post recently – guess it’s up to me to carry the Cabela’s banner for a while.  I’ve got Winstons and Scotts that are great, but when you compare the price…. Mark Faulkner

Response:

I fish a lot in New Mexico which is the land of small streams.  Bob Widgren of Los Pinos Rods in Albuquerque is fairly famous locally for his nice work, especially the short rods.

If he’s associated with Los Pinos Fly Shop, just gotta say they were the first fly shop where I walked in and felt really welcome. Mu

Response:

 I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.   Vern

Wait, wait, wait,….we’ve got this all wrong!  Vern was asking for a fly rod for a FLY-FISHING-MIDGET!  Obviously what Vern is looking for is an Orvis Midge 7′ 3 wt. rod with Midge Heirloom 2-3 reel!  Now, Orvis doesn’t list the Midge in their on-line catalogue but I’m sure there are a few out there on e-bay or gathering dust in the ROFF attics.  How ’bout it fellows!?  Got Midge?! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Yeah, what he said.  Don’t you just hate metooers?  Seriously, the Cabela’s 3 Forks 7 footer is a sweet little rod and I picked up the combo on they’re *giving* you the reel, line, backing and a SA leader.  Tough to beat this one.  I was so impressed I went right back to the trough and bought their 8′ 5 wt combo for the same price.  I don’t think there’s another rod on the market today that can come even close to these for the price, a surprisingly nice rod.  Good luck on your search Vern.– Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.   Vern Vern: I’ll give you a recommendation you’ve seen before – the Cabela’s Three Forks 7.5′ three piece, with reel, line and backing for around $50 as I recall.  The other recommendations I’ve seen are good, but at that price you will not believe the quality of that rod.  John Popp got me in to this, and I haven’t seen him post recently – guess it’s up to me to carry the Cabela’s banner for a while.  I’ve got Winstons and Scotts that are great, but when you compare the price…. Mark Faulkner

Response:

 I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.

Vern, last November, I purchased a St. Croix Legend Ultra 3wt and paired it up with a Teton #3 reel.  Incredible combination. Rod has anodized aluminum reel seats, a non-glare titanium finish, bird’s-eye maple inserts, Titanium plated single foot fly guides, Super Grade Cork Handle.  Unconditional lifetime warranty. Rod $250.00, Reel $160.00, time spent fishing – priceless bc.

Response:

Vern, Have a look at the Diamondback.  My 6.5 ft. rod is a dream of a 3 wt. Ezflyfish sells this rod.  St. Croix also has a nice rod in this class.  It is a little faster than the Diamondback and has a different feel.  Try them both and see what you think. Wayne To fish is human…to release Divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.  Vern ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/    v  {—} Before you buy.

Response:

I’m looking for a nice 7′-7.5′ 2/3 wt rod for small streams.  Could someone suggest a nice rod to get?  Thanks.

Vern, I had a desire for the same rod a few years ago, so I decided I’d save a few dollars and build one as a winter project.  I used a  6 1/2′ Pacific Bay 2-wt. blank, purchased for about $40, and decent hardware.   The rod is "OK" at best.   Skimping on the blank was the problem.   I have a suspicion that with a rod this small, the blank quality will make a more noticeable difference in rod performance. Anyway, the rod is a ball, and I regret not building it with a better blank. I like using the small rod so much, I’ll probably replace it with a new St.Croix, or build a better rod of similar proportion. Have fun, Bob Scott

Response:

bc, I got a #3 Teton for spring. They coil the line up in neat little loops, just how I like it ! (not)

I have not had that problem…..yet.  But I have only had it for two months now and have only fished with it 6 times.  I plan on using it this weekend in Colorado.  I am using the Rio Camo 3wt fly line with mine. I regret not getting the #4 for my 3wt rod instead. No complaints about the quality or overall performance though, a couple of 3-4lb hen rainbows last November got me into the backing, the little Teton must have been doing 15,000rpm!

Yea last month near the dam on the San Juan I hooked a monster.  It made the most high pitch scream I have heard a reel make.  Next thing I know I saw bright green dacron shooting up my eyelets. I looked over at Andy Kim who was busy with his own lunker, saying, "Hey Andy I know what color my backing is."   I think I had 3 loops of backing left before I got the fish to turn.  The damn thing was clear across the other side of the river.  Well after 15-20 minutes, I knelt down, released a nice fat bow.  Andy just looked at me, and said, "Ah Dave, you have become very self sufficient." A number of people have commented on the reel, thinking it was a toy, or an ornament.

I looked at the #4, but I liked how it balanced with my Legend Ultra 3wt. bc.

Response:

Question:

I like the foothills trail, and its connectors. a good 3 day is from upper whitewater falls to laurel valley. great views of lake joccassee, waterfalls, river crossings are bridged. Another three day is from Table rock to Ceasers head, side trail to top of Raven Cliff falls.

Response:

East-West hike through North Carolina’s portion of the Great Smoky Mountains Natioal Park.  Avoid the crowded AT. Enjoy your trip. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you wanted  to go on the most beautiful 3-5 day backountry hike: As far north as New Hampshire As far sounth as the Carolina’s and as far West as West Virginia where would you go? Thanks for any advice…please email direct — Jason Daniels

Response:

The best hike I’ve done in the east started on US Hwy 64 in NC, near Sapphire.  It consisted of going down the Horsepasture River, connecting with the Foothills Trail near the Lake Jocassee shore, over to the Toxaway River and back up the Toxaway to US Hwy 64.  It took 3.5 days, had some trail and some bushwhacking, a nice rappel down Windy Falls on the Horsepasture R. and was in some of the least travelled, most beautiful country I had been to in that area.

Response:

New York’s Adirondak High Peaks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you wanted  to go on the most beautiful 3-5 day backountry hike: As far north as New Hampshire As far sounth as the Carolina’s and as far West as West Virginia where would you go?

Response:

Spruce Knob area of West Virginia very nice, the head of seneca is great. Day hikes to the big falls of seneca, to the top of spruce knob, highest point in WVA.  Also close to Seneca Rocks an easy place to spend a day. To see pics of area, follow link to my home page. http://www.ncweb.com:80/users/crbock/ CRBO

Response:

If you wanted  to go on the most beautiful 3-5 day backountry hike: As far north as New Hampshire As far sounth as the Carolina’s and as far West as West Virginia where would you go? Thanks for any advice…please email direct — Jason Daniels

Consider the Northville-Placid Trail. Length; 133 miles. 5 days going north to Wakely Dam or 5 days going south, and come back next year to finish. E-mail for more info. Rick Beardsley Olmstedville, which is arguably the center of the Adirondacks and thusly the universe

Response:

If you wanted  to go on the most beautiful 3-5 day backountry hike: As far north as New Hampshire As far sounth as the Carolina’s and as far West as West Virginia where would you go?

I’d go to Maine, but that’s not within your parameters. Gerry

Response:

I’d go to Dolly Sods wilderness in West Virginia’s Monongahela National Forest. If you like to hike long distances it might be too small for 5 days, but is a great 3-day place. And if you want to do a leisurely 5-day, you can find plenty of things to occupy your time. It may not be quite as spectacular an area as some places farther north or farther south. But it has got a peculiar landscape that is dramatic, spectacular in its own right, intriguing and quite wild. I’ve been there dozens of times and, each time, I find something new and amazing.

As a former West Virginian (and no, I’m not unusually intimate with any of my family members, thank you) I have to agree that Dolly Sods is gorgeous, but it’s no place to go for a 3-5 nighter–way too small. There are other places nearby that are fantastic, so if you don’t mind leaving the wilds and re-entering, it’s an excellent area. A great place is the ridge that you can see above and behind Seneca Rocks. There’s a trail along the entire length. You will have to decend for water, though. I always considered Cranberry Glades wilderness kind of boring, as WV hiking goes. It is quite vast though. — –your favorite soils professional

Response:

If you wanted  to go on the most beautiful 3-5 day backountry hike:

Cranberry back country, Monongahela National Forest, West (by god!) Virginia. jeff Republicanism:  The haunting fear that someone poor may be happy.

Response:

I’d go to Dolly Sods wilderness in West Virginia’s Monongahela National Forest. If you like to hike long distances it might be too small for 5 days, but is a great 3-day place. And if you want to do a leisurely 5-day, you can find plenty of things to occupy your time. It may not be quite as spectacular an area as some places farther north or farther south. But it has got a peculiar landscape that is dramatic, spectacular in its own right, intriguing and quite wild. I’ve been there dozens of times and, each time, I find something new and amazing. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you wanted  to go on the most beautiful 3-5 day backountry hike: As far north as New Hampshire As far sounth as the Carolina’s and as far West as West Virginia where would you go? Thanks for any advice…please email direct — Jason Daniels

Response:

Jason, You might want to consider Vermont’s Long Trail.  It runs along the spine of the Green Mountains.  The nice thing about it is that you can see Lake Champlain, the Adirondacks and the White Mountains from Vermont summits. Let me know if you would like more info. James Ehlers Underhill, Vermont Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

Response:

If you wanted  to go on the most beautiful 3-5 day backountry hike: As far north as New Hampshire As far sounth as the Carolina’s and as far West as West Virginia where would you go?

Adirondacks or Catskills in New York White Mountains in New Hampshire

Response:

If you wanted  to go on the most beautiful 3-5 day backountry hike: As far north as New Hampshire As far sounth as the Carolina’s and as far West as West Virginia where would you go? Thanks for any advice…please email direct — Jason Daniels

Response:

Question:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots? Bob

Response:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots?

I have always assumed that the formulae refer to the finished length of the sections.  I allow about 1 1/2" for the knots, and this seems to work fine.  The nail knot is used to attach the leader butt to the tip of the flyline.  I use the blood knot, except for the tippet (last) knot, where I use the surgeon’s knot (three-turn version — I think the British call this a water knot.)  FWIW, my own experiments show that the surgeon’s knot, if perfectly tied, is stronger than the blood knot, but leaders tied with blood knots turn over better.  Since most breaks occur at the fly or the tippet knot, I believe that my system is a good compromise.  I have found that blood knots cinch up best when you tie them with one less turn of the heavier material than the lighter.  With the Maxima I use, 4/5 turns on the heavy butt sections and 5/6 turns on the lighter material seems to work well.  Heavy material requires a jerk or tug to properly tighten; the other knots should be pulled gently.  I am sure that I learned much of this from books or magazines, but my old brain can’t cite references.  Hope this helps.  –Roger

Response:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots?

Most formula’s I’ve seen are finished length. I usually add about six inches for a knot on each end. You could probably use less, but I find it much less frustrating if I have plenty of material to hold onto when tightening my knots. As for knots, I usually use blood knots on the thicker sections. On the smaller diameter material I do something a little different. I tie a nail knot with the smaller material, but I don’t tighten it completely. I then take the larger diameter material and tie a nail knot with it on the smaller material. I now have two knots that will snug together when I pull on the opposite ends of the material. (I’m not sure if that description makes much sense, but it’s the best I can do!). This technique is admittedly a pain in the ass, but I find  it to be the strongest connection there is. When tied this way, I have NEVER broken a tippet off right at the knot. Surgeon’s or blood knots break at the knot quite often in my experience. Typically, I use this technique when I make up my leaders at home. If I am tying or repairing a leader on the river, I usually use the surgeon’s knot to save time. Tim — To reply by e-mail, remove "sick of spam" from my return address!

Response:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots? Bob

I would think most formulas are finished lengths. You will have to give yourself what extra length it will take you to tie the knots. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

As for knots, I usually use blood knots on the thicker sections. On the smaller diameter material I do something a little different. I tie a nail knot with the smaller material, but I don’t tighten it completely. I then take the larger diameter material and tie a nail knot with it on the smaller material. I now have two knots that will snug together when I pull on the opposite ends of the material. (I’m not sure if that description makes much sense, but it’s the best I can do!). This technique is admittedly a pain in the ass, but I find  it to be the strongest connection there is. When tied this way, I have NEVER broken a tippet off right at the knot. Surgeon’s or blood knots break at the knot quite often in my experience.

I also use the double nail knot for my leaders…mainly because I never learned to tie a proper bloodknot and the double nail is easy with a knot-tying tool (they almost all have instructions on how to tie the double nail). I’ve never heard anyone talk about which is stronger, and assumed it was the bloodknot since that’s what everyone recommends. Typically, I use this technique when I make up my leaders at home. If I am tying or repairing a leader on the river, I usually use the surgeon’s knot to save time.

Same here. Ric

Response:

In leader formulas do the lengths of the sections that are reccomended include the extra length needed to tie the connecting knots or are they reccomending that that length be the finished/after knot length.  Also, nail knot, surgeon’s, or blood knots?

Hi Bob, In leader formulas the length is the finished length.  Don’t get too anal about it though, if you’re off by an inch or so it will still work.  The idea in the tapering sections is to smoothly transmit the power from the fly line down through the leader to the tippet without hinging.  You just need enough line in each section to make that transition.  Try to keep the proportions close as that is the most important (proportion of butt section to tapering section to tippet section) and has the most affect on the performance of the leader. I like to use the nail knot to attach my leader to the fly line (smallest, smoothest connection), the blood knot for the knots in the butt and tapering section (smallest, smoothest connection again), and either the double surgeon’s knot or the Orvis tippet knot for the tippet (extra bulk doesn’t matter here – strength does). When using the blood knot, use only 3 to a maximum or 4 turns in the butt section, 5 turns in the tapering section, and, if you insist on using the blood knot with your tippets, 6 turns with 6X and 7 turns with 7X.  The more turns you use, the more secure the knot is *IF* you can seat it correctly and completely.  Smaller material uses more turns, thicker material demands fewer turns.   A five turn blood knot is almost impossible to seat well in .021" material and will easily slip after soaking in the water for a few minutes if not totally seated.  I typically use a 3 turn blood knot in the butt section and never have it fail. Beware of using other knots in the heavy part of your leader.  The blood knot is the smallest knot you can tie in monofilament, and the easiest to move through the guides.  A double surgeon’s knot is twice as bulky, and although very slightly stronger than a blood knot, also tends to get caught in the corners of the snake guides when that big fish makes one final lunge.  This results in broken-off fish, zippered-off line guides, broken rod as it gets stuck in the tip-top, or all of the above.  Not a good choice in the heavy section of the leader.  The extra bulk is no big deal in the fine part of the leader because it is just a little bump in the line with little chance of moving through the line guides let alone getting stuck in them.                                           Hope this helps,                                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

I also use the double nail knot for my leaders…mainly because I never learned to tie a proper bloodknot and the double nail is easy with a knot-tying tool (they almost all have instructions on how to tie the double nail). I’ve never heard anyone talk about which is stronger, and assumed it was the bloodknot since that’s what everyone recommends.

I started using the double nail knot because it is so similar to a knot that I used many years ago when I was a rock climber. The climbing knot was considered one of the strongest because it relies on the force of the knots opposing each other rather than simply on tightening itself under a load. I don’t know which one is actually stronger, but I do know that I have never broken at the knot with the double nail, but I have with the blood knot. In all honesty though, I’ve used te blood knot longer than the double nail so it just may be a matter of time. I’m sticking with the double nail for now. Tim — To reply by e-mail, remove "sick of spam" from my return address!

Response:

Dan Gracia, Your explanations of casting and rod flex finally tell me what have caused my problems going back and forth between different rods.   What is the Orvis tippet knot?  If its for connecting tippet to leader rather than tippet to hook is there a picture on the web or in a book?                                                  Doug Campbell

Response:

Dan Gracia, Your explanations of casting and rod flex finally tell me what have caused my problems going back and forth between different rods.   What is the Orvis tippet knot?  If its for connecting tippet to leader rather than tippet to hook is there a picture on the web or in a book?                                               Doug Campbell

Hi Doug, There is a description of it in the Waterproof Knot Booklet that Orvis sells for around $5.  It’s a slight variation of the Orvis knot to tie on the fly. Basically a figure 8 knot with two turns through the  second loop.  I’ll see if I can scan a copy of it and e-mail it to you.  If you ever get an Orvis knotless leader and send in that little blue card,  they’ll send you a plastic wallet size card with the tippet to hook knot on one side and the leader to tippet knot on the other – no charge.                                  Good Fishing,                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

I’m planning a mid-March trip to the Eureka area.  Can anybody tell me the name and/or e-mail address of a good fly shop in the area.  What are the current conditions.  Is there a preferred river among the Mad, Eel, Klamath or Smith?  I would appreciate any information from locals or others knowledgeable of the area.

Response:

Check the following site for N. Californaia coast fishing and river information. http://www.northcoastweb.com/fishing/ For fly shop in Eureka check: Eureka Fly Shop 505 H st. Eureka, Ca 707-444-2000 URL:  http://www.northcoastweb.com/fishing/efs/index.htm Mike

Response:

Path:

news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!arclight. uore gon.edu!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsxfer3.itd.umich.e du!p ortc01.blue.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mai l – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com Xref: news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:58966 I’m planning a mid-March trip to the Eureka area.  Can anybody tell me the name and/or e-mail address of a good fly shop in the area.  What are the current conditions.  Is there a preferred river among the Mad, Eel, Klamath or Smith?  I would appreciate any information from locals or others knowledgeable of the area.

Contact Eureka Fly Shop…707-444-2000

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Question:

<SNIP are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow.  Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct?  Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit?  On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit. I would be real surprised if Montana planted any fish.  Because of the good population of brown trout, which are resistant to WD, they still have fish in the infected rivers.  Besides,wasn’t Montana the first state to figure out that people will travel long distances to catch "wild" fish?  

   I don’t mean to change the subject, but the original question has recently become even more intriguing than when I originally posed it.  The Yellowstone is the last wild river in the lower 48, but that doesn’t seem to be so important now that a few springcreeks have succumbed to what wild rivers naturally do on occasion (flood and change that is).  Stocking wild rivers when the rainbows disappear is similar to damming wild rivers when the largely man-made springcreeks disappear.  They are both justified with tourist dollars.  Of course it remains to be seen what they will actually do on the Yellowstone.  I am a cynic but I hope I am wrong. -al

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<SNIP are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow.  Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct?  Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit?  On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit.

I would be real surprised if Montana planted any fish.  Because of the good population of brown trout, which are resistant to WD, they still have fish in the infected rivers.  Besides,wasn’t Montana the first state to figure out that people will travel long distances to catch "wild" fish?   Do you think people would travel long distances to catch hatchery planters??  I can see the ads now: "Come to Big Sky Country to catch our imitation rainbows reared in concrete runways by the thousands and behaviourly modified with regular feedings of Purina Trout Chow (floating variety – a reddish brown color).  The "hot" fly this week (and every week) – either a brown Goddard Caddis with the hackle and antenna removed or a size10 brown beetle.  If the fish aren’t rising just throw out a handful of pea gravel (sounds like PTC hitting the water).  Guaranteed to make them rise (and since your fly is the only thing floating they’ll hit it thinking it’s PTC).  Come on down!"  I guarantee you I wouldn’t and I don’t think very many people would – and they know that.                                         Just my .02                                                 Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I have a few questions about whirling disease I hope someone knowledgeable can answer.  Any realistic estimates on how long it would take a river that has been hit hard by the disease (the Madison for example) to recover naturally without stocking?  Years?  Decades?  Never? Will the parasite die off after a period with no juvenile rainbows, making the river suitable for repopulation?  Can a significant portion of fry survive to sexual maturity, or does reproduction halt completely?  It seems to me that by the time the river recovers to a point that it is suitable for a rainbow population again that the surviving trout, if any, would be too old to spawn.   Let’s suppose that it is only a matter of time before all the wild rainbow fisheries in the west are affected.  While it is awful to imagine, it seems realistic unless we find a way to kill the parasite.  After all, rivers that are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow.  Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct?  Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit?  On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit.   I hope this initiates some useful discussion. -al

I am not an expert, but I have read that whirling disease has been around for over 200 years since it was first discovered in Europe.  So our environment has been successfully dealing with it for quiet a while. It can be spread by man and animals, so if fishing were banned, it would still migrate to new streams. I was fortunate enough to talk to a very experinced guide in Montana a few weeks ago.  His opinion on the disease is that its effects are minimal, and that the low count of frey is due to the extended fishing season ( to bring in the tourist bucks) and the trampling of the spawning beds by well intentioned fishermen. H.Payne

Response:

The spring creeks aren’t largely man made…they had allways existed and had fallen into disrepair from years of neglect and cattle grazing…they have been rehabilitated by man…veggitation restored, silt removed, etc…I will be very surprised if Montana increases it’s stocking program…there is no need…it’s so ironic that EVERYONE is SO concerned with whirling disease when the biggest threat to our Montana fisheries remains water quality….stop the Seven-Up Pete mine on the Blackfoot…restore the pre 1994 water quality standards!!!

Response:

These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion…

I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? Thanks, Mitch

Response:

Al,    The discussions I’ve monitored predict that a certain percentage of the population will be resistant to WD.  These fish will reproduce, passing on their resistance.  After a few generations, equilibrium will be restored.  If we leave nature alone, she’ll do what she has done for million of years– repair and improve herself. But then, my boss calls me a stary-eyed optomist! Tight lines, Charley

Jonathan Cook’s response has indicated -and there is evidence from several Eastern and Western states to substantiate this- that the presence of the parasite does not immediately lead to the symptoms of infections, eg skeletal deformations, ‘whirling’, black tail.  Whether or not this means that a resident population has developed an immune response to the parasite is still debatable.  Published reports indicate that there is some antibody response to the presence of the parasite, however this may or may not lead to removal of the parasite by known immune response pathways. The primary reason whirling disease is so devastating is the attack on skelatal material that has not ossified.  So survival/morbidity depends on the presence of the parasite, its apparent mandatory passage through the intermediate host, the Tubifex worm, the release of the infectious stage of the parasite, and attachment to the host fish–all at a time when the fish has not undergone ossification of the site of attack (the spine and some head skeleton regions).  So survival is dependent on the life histories of the parasite, its intermediate host and the main host. All of the fish so far discussed are at risk, although there is a gradation that increases from browns to cutts to rainbows.  Someone rightly pointed out that the primary target for the present are rainbows which are the progeny of planted fish – I believe but am not sure that Montana stopped planting fish in rivers in the late 70’s, but continue to do so in lakes in the state.  I am more concerned on the fate of native, wild fish (eg the cutts) than those that have been moved from other locations (the rainbow and brown). Don

Response:

I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? My guess is that yes, this is a big factor in susceptibility. A high gradient stream doesn’t play good host to the tubifex worm, and is less fertile in general. Thus, the WD spore concentration will be less during the ossification period of the young trout’s skeleton. More trout live, and the overall affect is less. I’d say a good example of this is the Big Thompson. Very little effect.

Or the Roaring Fork ? TimW

Response:

These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion… I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? Thanks, Mitch

One of the stages in the WD parasites’ life is in the tubifex worm. These worms live in the mud on the bottom of a river. A large elevation drop generally means faster water, and no mud accumulation. No mud, no worms, no place for the WD parasite to accumulate. Also faster water means a dead rotting WD infested carcass doesn’t go to the bottom to spread it’s spores. It gets swept away. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion… I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? Thanks, Mitch One of the stages in the WD parasites’ life is in the tubifex worm. These worms live in the mud on the bottom of a river. A large elevation drop generally means faster water, and no mud accumulation. No mud, no worms, no place for the WD parasite to accumulate. Also faster water means a dead rotting WD infested carcass doesn’t go to the bottom to spread it’s spores. It gets swept away.

Does this latter posit a positive argument for catch and kill ? TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion… I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? Thanks, Mitch One of the stages in the WD parasites’ life is in the tubifex worm. These worms live in the mud on the bottom of a river. A large elevation drop generally means faster water, and no mud accumulation. No mud, no worms, no place for the WD parasite to accumulate. Also faster water means a dead rotting WD infested carcass doesn’t go to the bottom to spread it’s spores. It gets swept away. Does this latter posit a positive argument for catch and kill ? TimW

Not really.  ’Cuz the fish killed by WD are fry that you wouldn’t catch anyway.  ’Course, I suppose larger fish could be host to it without being killed by it.  But, taking all the fish out of the system to save the system, somehow, seems short-sighted to me. Tight lines and straight fish, Charley

Response:

. Most hard-hit waters are tailwaters — no runoff, constant temps, and lots of moss and mud for tubifex worms (the other host).

Hi Jon, and now Gas Bubble disease can be added to the list of problems in tailwaters. A recent study on the Colorado River states:         …Trout sampled exhibited higher symptoms of both whirling disease         and gas bubble trauma in stream sections with high saturation levels         than those with lower saturation levels. These results indicate a         combined effect of whirling disease and gas bubble trauma is affecting         young -of-the-year rainbow and brown trout in the study area. regards, Mike

Response:

Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it. Darryl Hayashida

how do you distinguish a hatchery fish from a wild one ? just curious (i’m a strict C&R guy) — phone +303-492-3504       |  Dept. of Chemistry & Biochemistry fax +303-492-5894         |  University of Colorado at Boulder

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I have a few questions about whirling disease I hope someone knowledgeable can answer.  Any realistic estimates on how long it would take a river that has been hit hard by the disease (the Madison for example) to recover naturally without stocking?  Years?  Decades?  Never? Will the parasite die off after a period with no juvenile rainbows, making the river suitable for repopulation?  Can a significant portion of fry survive to sexual maturity, or does reproduction halt completely?  It seems to me that by the time the river recovers to a point that it is suitable for a rainbow population again that the surviving trout, if any, would be too old to spawn.    Are steelhead susceptible?    Let’s suppose that it is only a matter of time before all the wild rainbow fisheries in the west are affected.  While it is awful to imagine, it seems realistic unless we find a way to kill the parasite.  After all, rivers that are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow.  Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct?  Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit?  On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit.    I hope this initiates some useful discussion. -al

Al,         The discussions I’ve monitored predict that a certain percentage of the population will be resistant to WD.  These fish will reproduce, passing on their resistance.  After a few generations, equilibrium will be restored.  If we leave nature alone, she’ll do what she has done for million of years– repair and improve herself. But then, my boss calls me a stary-eyed optomist! Tight lines, Charley

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it. Darryl Hayashida how do you distinguish a hatchery fish from a wild one ? just curious (i’m a strict C&R guy) In the area I fish in, a stocker is a 10 to 12 inch rainbow with tattered fins and a dark almost black back.They all look the same, as if they were cranked out by an assembly line. The fins are tattered because they grow up packed into a concrete pen where their fins rub against the walls and each other. The hatchery fish also tend to nip each others fins. Probably out of irritation or maybe lack of anything else to do. Their backs are black because the have no way to get out of the sun and fish skin reacts to strong sunlight just like human skin does – increased melanin, or in other words, a suntan. Darryl Hayashida

Here in Oregon, the hatchery workers clip the adipose fin (the one located on the back behind the main (dorsal?) fin). Andy Clark Albany, OR

Response:

Text deleted… In the end it will be the hatchery raised WD exposed fish that has the best chance of survival and passing on resistance to its offspring. regards, Mike

We are talking about two different animals here. In my disscusions with fishery biologists in the area I fish in, I found out that the hatchery fish have a very low survival rate. On the order of 2 to 3 percent. One of the reasons is that the "catchable" size stocked is 10 to 12 inches. Any fish raised for the better portion of a year on Purina Trout Chow isn’t going to recognize a caddis or mayfly or a nymph as food. All I’m saying is in my area stockers are going to die anyway, so you might as well keep them. This is probably different in your area. Also, the area I fish in has had WD for decades. It still has wild trout. They seem to be resistant, and C&R seems to be a positive factor, preserving resistant fish to breed, not a cause of spreading WD. Go ahead and post your rebuttal, and I will read it, but this debate will probably go on for years and we, at least I, can’t do a darned thing about WD. So, if you don’t mind, I respectfully bow out of this discussion. I only entered into it again to answer the question on why it appears steep stream gradients don’t have a WD problem. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it. Darryl Hayashida how do you distinguish a hatchery fish from a wild one ? just curious (i’m a strict C&R guy)

In the area I fish in, a stocker is a 10 to 12 inch rainbow with tattered fins and a dark almost black back.They all look the same, as if they were cranked out by an assembly line. The fins are tattered because they grow up packed into a concrete pen where their fins rub against the walls and each other. The hatchery fish also tend to nip each others fins. Probably out of irritation or maybe lack of anything else to do. Their backs are black because the have no way to get out of the sun and fish skin reacts to strong sunlight just like human skin does – increased melanin, or in other words, a suntan. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As far as a hatrchery fish goes, if the fish was raised in a WD negative hatchery  (or born in the wild) and placed in a WD positive stream it would never exhibit  signs of WD but could carry millions of spores until its death. But a fish raised in a "lightly infected" WD positve hatchery may only be exposed to a few spores,  at which time the fish becomes immune to WD, and the spore load never increases. Which fish should is the healthiest? In the end it will be the hatchery raised WD exposed fish that has the best chance of survival and passing on resistance to its offspring. regards, Mike

Now, Mike.  Building strawmen arguments and then knocking them down is a crude and not very supportable method of proving your point.  Yes, if I accept that only the two scenarios you’ve outlined exist, your choice is superior.  However, it is possible that a wild trout, or one introduced from a hatchery, may inhabit a "lightly infected" WD positive stream and provide an immunity to WD that is commensurate with your hypothetical Hatchery Fish.  After all, this is Mother Nature we’re discussing here.  She’s anything but linear! I believe that hatcheries have their place, as do wild runs. I believe that catch and release is a tools, and should be used with an awareness of the appropriate application of that tool and its potential short-comings. I believe Flyfishing, much like Monday Night Football, has become much too popular, and in its popularity has suffered from many individuals trying to define it to fit into their paradigm.  It’s still just fishing. Tight Lines, Charley

Response:

No, because if you have just caught a fish that appears healthy, then it either has WD or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then put it back. If it does, then it might be one of the few fish that are resistant to WD, and if it lives to reproduce, the resistance will be passed on to its offspring. Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it.

There is absolutely no way to tell if a fish has WD or not, except for the very young fish who were exposed before ther cartilage had formed. These young fish will have deformed spines, heads, and blackened tails. However they do not live very long as they are easy prey, poor competitors, or die as a result of WD.  On the other hand an older fish that is exposed my carry millions of spores and never show any signs. When they die they release these spores that invade the Tubifex worm (intermediate host) that later releases the spores that harm the very young fish. As far as a hatrchery fish goes, if the fish was raised in a WD negative hatchery  (or born in the wild) and placed in a WD positive stream it would never exhibit  signs of WD but could carry millions of spores until its death. But a fish raised in a "lightly infected" WD positve hatchery may only be exposed to a few spores,  at which time the fish becomes immune to WD, and the spore load never increases. Which fish should is the healthiest? In the end it will be the hatchery raised WD exposed fish that has the best chance of survival and passing on resistance to its offspring. regards, Mike

Response:

<snip A recent study on the Colorado River states:..Trout sampled exhibited higher symptoms of both whirling disease      and gas bubble traum=

a in stream sections with high saturation levels than those with lower saturation levels. <snip What exactly is gas bubble trauma? Is this an effect in aerated hydraulics on ??? gills, body surface, or ???? Please elucidate. Jon

Response:

One of the stages in the WD parasites’ life is in the tubifex worm. These worms live in the mud on the bottom of a river. A large elevation drop generally means faster water, and no mud accumulation. No mud, no worms, no place for the WD parasite to accumulate. Also faster water means a dead rotting WD infested carcass doesn’t go to the bottom to spread it’s spores. It gets swept away. Does this latter posit a positive argument for catch and kill ? TimW

No, because if you have just caught a fish that appears healthy, then it either has WD or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then put it back. If it does, then it might be one of the few fish that are resistant to WD, and if it lives to reproduce, the resistance will be passed on to its offspring. Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it. Darryl Hayashida

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     Just my $0.02, and I expect I’ll get a flame or two for this.      Rainbows are native to Pacific coast streams.  Sure they grow to a large size, but anytime you transplant fish from their place of origin to a new area, you’re taking a big risk.  Not only are the organisms not adapted to all the vagaraties of the new habiat, even if the populations do thrive, but the other organisms in the new habitat are also not adapted to the imported species.      Cutthroats are native to the Rocky Mountain streams.  They evolved there, in consort with all of the other organisms in the ecosystem.  It would make more sense to revitalize the cutthroat populations, especially with all of their interesting subspecies, than to keep relying on alien species.  Likewise I would rather see more brook trout in eastern streams. Jesse M. Purvis

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   I have a few questions about whirling disease I hope someone knowledgeable can answer.  Any realistic estimates on how long it would take a river that has been hit hard by the disease (the Madison for example) to recover naturally without stocking?  Years?  Decades?  Never? Will the parasite die off after a period with no juvenile rainbows, making the river suitable for repopulation?  Can a significant portion of fry survive to sexual maturity, or does reproduction halt completely?  It seems to me that by the time the river recovers to a point that it is suitable for a rainbow population again that the surviving trout, if any, would be too old to spawn.    Are steelhead susceptible?    Let’s suppose that it is only a matter of time before all the wild rainbow fisheries in the west are affected.  While it is awful to imagine, it seems realistic unless we find a way to kill the parasite.  After all, rivers that are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow.  Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct?  Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit?  On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit.    I hope this initiates some useful discussion. -al

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These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion. However, I did attend the WD conference in Denver back in Feb, and have read alot of the papers that were discussed there, so I think I’m reasonably well-informed.   I have a few questions about whirling disease I hope someone knowledgeable can answer.  Any realistic estimates on how long it would take a river that has been hit hard by the disease (the Madison for example) to recover naturally without stocking?  Years?  Decades?  Never?

No one knows – can be any of the above. Depends on what you mean by recover, and on what it is recovering from. However, keep reading, the news isn’t that bad. Will the parasite die off after a period with no juvenile rainbows, making the river suitable for repopulation?

Apparently, yes. Utah killed off a river counting on this. CA has seen watersheds go from testing positive for WD to negative over several years, too. Can a significant portion of fry survive to sexual maturity, or does reproduction halt completely?  It

Yes, a significant portion can survive. It depends on how saturated the water is with WD; and that depends on river conditions. My bet is that many rivers in the west will not support heavy concentrations of WD (ie, enough to drastically affect the rainbow population). Most hard-hit waters are tailwaters — no runoff, constant temps, and lots of moss and mud for tubifex worms (the other host). seems to me that by the time the river recovers to a point that it is suitable for a rainbow population again that the surviving trout, if any, would be too old to spawn.

I am pretty sure that fish spawn all of their adult life. In fact, the older and bigger they are, the more eggs they produce. They just keep getting better!   Are steelhead susceptible?

Probably.   Let’s suppose that it is only a matter of time before all the wild rainbow fisheries in the west are affected.  While it is awful to imagine, it seems realistic unless we find a way to kill the parasite.  After all, rivers that are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow.  

Yeah, but don’t worry about it. I don’t think it’ll spread as fast as in the past, and, as above, there are many rivers that probably won’t see population crashes, due to the nature of the river itself. Besides, the rainbow isn’t native in much of the west anyways. Its just the CA$H fish — maybe ol’ T-Bone will get his wish of less-crowded waters, after all. Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct?  Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit?  On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit.

I don’t think they’ll need to stock. Remember, the Madison was already over 50% browns, so its not like there’s no fish left. Probably Henry’s Fork too. But who knows, I could be wrong. There are many states and many rivers already infected. Overall, it has been very few rivers that have seen population crashes. And these rivers ARE NOT NATURAL. The upper Colorado, the Madison, others in Colorado, do not have natural flows. I don’t think WD will devastate the west. Jon.

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Question:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

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Quoting "WildernessWerkes!"<wwerkes from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.f    <This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard    <you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for    <a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building    <components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except    <fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional    <casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW I order quite a bit os stuff from Angler’s Workshop.  They have always provided excellant service.           Angler’s Workshop           1350 Atlantic           Woodland, WA. 98674           360-225-9445 Jim Carlisle

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This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

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I can reccommend Custom Tackle in Shelbyville, Tenn. Bob McKamey is the owner. Telephone 615-684-6164. I have dealt with this Co. for years. Good luck. Jack

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

I don’t think he’d buy a book on fly fishing gear when he said he wasn’t interested. Angler’s Workshop and Dale Clemems are two great rod building supply companies. Angler’s – (360) 225-9445 Clemens – (610) 395-5119 Don B.

Response:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

Call these: Dale Clemmens Custom Tackle (615)395-5119 Custom Tackle Supply (615)684-6164 Anglers Workshop (360)225-9445

Response:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

There are tons of suppliers, Cabella’s has a good catalogue for tackle craft. Thomas

Response:

One of the most complete mail order rod component catologs that I have seen is put out by Cabela’s.  They put out a series of specialty catalogs.  The one that you need is called "Tackle Craft".  It has a complete spectrum of rod building supplies.  Call 800-237-4444. Mark

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I recently had my 4-pc Sage 890 RPL replaced by Sage (with new blanks) because the finish was defective.  I had the blanks drop-shipped to the guy who made the first rod.  When he sent me the finished rod, he noted that the new "8-wt." had a huge butt section.  I got the rod back just as I was leaving for Belize, so i didn’t have a chance to look at it.   However, when I laid my rods out in the panga, I couldn’t tell the difference between the new 8-wt and my 4-pc 9-wt.RPLX.  The rod said 890 RPLB (B stood for blank, according to Sage).  I used the rod as an 8-wt for bones and truthfully can’t say if it was different from the original rod…other than the larger butt. Can anyone out there offer an explanation?  Sage told me to send them the rod, but I can’t do that as it is my favorite bassing rod at home (I’ll have to wait until the season ends). Adam

Hi Adam, The new RPL+’s have larger butts, faster action. Maybe you got the new one !! Great rod with power in the butt for more powerful casts. Dennis Grant Atlantic FLy Fishing SChool

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently had my 4-pc Sage 890 RPL replaced by Sage (with new blanks) because the finish was defective.  I had the blanks drop-shipped to the guy who made the first rod.  When he sent me the finished rod, he noted that the new "8-wt." had a huge butt section.  I got the rod back just as I was leaving for Belize, so i didn’t have a chance to look at it. However, when I laid my rods out in the panga, I couldn’t tell the difference between the new 8-wt and my 4-pc 9-wt.RPLX.  The rod said 890 RPLB (B stood for blank, according to Sage).  I used the rod as an 8-wt for bones and truthfully can’t say if it was different from the original rod…other than the larger butt. Can anyone out there offer an explanation?  Sage told me to send them the rod, but I can’t do that as it is my favorite bassing rod at home (I’ll have to wait until the season ends). Adam Hi Adam, The new RPL+’s have larger butts, faster action. Maybe you got the new one !! Great rod with power in the butt for more powerful casts. Dennis Grant Atlantic FLy Fishing SChool

Larger butts, power in the butt for more powerful cast…hmmmm…I need to get off this diet!

Response:

I recently had my 4-pc Sage 890 RPL replaced by Sage (with new blanks) because the finish was defective.  I had the blanks drop-shipped to the guy who made the first rod.  When he sent me the finished rod, he noted that the new "8-wt." had a huge butt section.  I got the rod back just as I was leaving for Belize, so i didn’t have a chance to look at it.   However, when I laid my rods out in the panga, I couldn’t tell the difference between the new 8-wt and my 4-pc 9-wt.RPLX.  The rod said 890 RPLB (B stood for blank, according to Sage).  I used the rod as an 8-wt for bones and truthfully can’t say if it was different from the original rod…other than the larger butt. Can anyone out there offer an explanation?  Sage told me to send them the rod, but I can’t do that as it is my favorite bassing rod at home (I’ll have to wait until the season ends). Adam

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