Question:

Mike, I generally like dogpile too, but here’s another that searches 37 search engines at the same time. When I’m having trouble finding something, I resort to this. The only problem is taking the time to go through all the stuff it finds.

Do you have the URL? I have a couple of search systems, and I get plenty of hits on some of this stuff, but it takes hours sorting them out for anything useful. TL MC

Response:

Try www.prophish.com I think that they make something similar to what you describe.  As to it’s price and suitability for your purpose, I couldn’t say. I don’t know what search engine(s) you use, but try www.dogpile.com next

Thanks Tom, I have seen the prophish system, very nice but mainly for kayaks and catamarans, etc, far too expensive anyway. I simply need a right angled drive transmission in a sealed housing, on whichj a sprocket may be mounted. Ordinary bicycle bearings etc, and a stainless chain would complete the assembly.  I want to keep my hands free when driving the boat, and I do not wish to rely on engines. If absolutely  necessary I will build one, but experience suggests this also takes considerable time and money. Perhaps a lawn tractor transmission or similar would be appropriate. I will keep looking. Thanks. TL MC

Response:

Nobody else with even a little experience of the boats I mentioned?  I would be most appreciative. I must decide by Friday, and I hate making decisions without sufficient information, one invariably regrets them. TL MC

Response:

Mike, For the DH400 and Navigator II descriptions, see http://www.Caddis-mfg.com/pontoon.htm No experience with them but am interested in reports myself. Bob reply to ellisb at t e l e p o r t   d o t   c o m – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nobody else with even a little experience of the boats I mentioned?  I would be most appreciative. I must decide by Friday, and I hate making decisions without sufficient information, one invariably regrets them. TL MC

Response:

(Hits forehead with palm of hand and says, "Duh!") (Not really, it was something a little stronger.) Sorry about that. I’m gettin’ old and having increasingly frequent brain farts. And I wonder why I can’t tie a fly… Here’s the URL for the "37-search-engine search engine:" http://www.compaweb.net/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Randy, it might help if you actually gave Mike the url Mike, I generally like dogpile too, but here’s another that searches 37 search engines at the same time. When I’m having trouble finding something, I resort to this. The only problem is taking the time to go through all the stuff it finds. Randy One other thing which somebody might know.   I am looking for a pedal driven propeller. Pedal and chain drive as on a bicycle, but fitted with gears to drive a propeller shaft. Any ideas? TL MC Try www.prophish.com I think that they make something similar to what you describe.  As to it’s price and suitability for your purpose, I couldn’t say. I don’t know what search engine(s) you use, but try www.dogpile.com next time you’re looking for something.  Dogpile is a metasearch engine that searches something like 15 search engines for you.  Use a lot of quotation marks.  I searched for "fly fishing" "pontoon boat" and got a fair # of results back.  You can always add the boat name to this search string for narrower results.  Don’t use quotes unless you are positive that the boat name is exactly as you type it, otherwise you won’t get the results you want. Good luck, and watch out for those lorries! Tom G

Response:

Mike, For the DH400 and Navigator II descriptions, see http://www.Caddis-mfg.com/pontoon.htm No experience with them but am interested in reports myself.

Thanks Bob,  I will let you know what I decide and why, if that is of any use. TL MC

Response:

(Hits forehead with palm of hand and says, "Duh!") (Not really, it was something a little stronger.)

 Thanks !  ( Not for hitting your head, for the URL )) TL MC

Response:

Mike, I went to the site today and discovered that they’ve re-vamped it a bit. Now to find the 37-engine search site, you have to move down the menu on the left. ‘Took me a minute. It used to be prominently displayed in the middle of the page. Randy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Hits forehead with palm of hand and says, "Duh!") (Not really, it was something a little stronger.)  Thanks !  ( Not for hitting your head, for the URL )) TL MC

Response:

Randy, it might help if you actually gave Mike the url

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, I generally like dogpile too, but here’s another that searches 37 search engines at the same time. When I’m having trouble finding something, I resort to this. The only problem is taking the time to go through all the stuff it finds. Randy One other thing which somebody might know.   I am looking for a pedal driven propeller. Pedal and chain drive as on a bicycle, but fitted with gears to drive a propeller shaft. Any ideas? TL MC Try www.prophish.com I think that they make something similar to what you describe.  As to it’s price and suitability for your purpose, I couldn’t say. I don’t know what search engine(s) you use, but try

www.dogpile.com next – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – time you’re looking for something.  Dogpile is a metasearch engine that searches something like 15 search engines for you.  Use a lot of quotation marks.  I searched for "fly fishing" "pontoon boat" and got a fair # of results back.  You can always add the boat name to this search string for narrower results.  Don’t use quotes unless you are positive that the boat name is exactly as you type it, otherwise you won’t get the results you want. Good luck, and watch out for those lorries! Tom G

Response:

Hey Mike,   I have a Caddis float tube/pontoon and it seems pretty good.I haven’t gotten a chance to take it out yet but I did put it together and inflate it.The bladder tube comes with a lifetime warranty, which is good because I blew mine up the first day I had it because I’m used to a truck inner tube and I guess I overinflated it.The company sent me a new one within a week.Cabelas lists most of the pontoons that you mentioned and they do have an online catalog. Regards,Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, For the DH400 and Navigator II descriptions, see http://www.Caddis-mfg.com/pontoon.htm No experience with them but am interested in reports myself. Thanks Bob,  I will let you know what I decide and why, if that is of any use. TL MC

Response:

One other thing which somebody might know.   I am looking for a pedal driven propeller. Pedal and chain drive as on a bicycle, but fitted with gears to drive a propeller shaft. Any ideas?

Hey Mike,  are you off after that there ferox again?  Want to spare your shoulders this time eh?

Response:

Mike, I generally like dogpile too, but here’s another that searches 37 search engines at the same time. When I’m having trouble finding something, I resort to this. The only problem is taking the time to go through all the stuff it finds. Randy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One other thing which somebody might know.   I am looking for a pedal driven propeller. Pedal and chain drive as on a bicycle, but fitted with gears to drive a propeller shaft. Any ideas? TL MC Try www.prophish.com I think that they make something similar to what you describe.  As to it’s price and suitability for your purpose, I couldn’t say. I don’t know what search engine(s) you use, but try www.dogpile.com next time you’re looking for something.  Dogpile is a metasearch engine that searches something like 15 search engines for you.  Use a lot of quotation marks.  I searched for "fly fishing" "pontoon boat" and got a fair # of results back.  You can always add the boat name to this search string for narrower results.  Don’t use quotes unless you are positive that the boat name is exactly as you type it, otherwise you won’t get the results you want. Good luck, and watch out for those lorries! Tom G

Response:

My home made pontoon boat has given up the ghost,  a lorry backed over it this morning, as I was attempting to prepare it for a Baltic trip. I would like to get one fairly quickly, and don

Question:

The only Humpies I fish have yellow bellies, only because the once or twice I tried orange, red or green ones, I saw no particular difference in results.  Have you colorists any ideas on when or under what conditions, one color Humpy might be better than another, or is it just the fishes’ whim from one day to the next? JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   On many lake outings, I either get a strike on an orange strike indicator or the orange leader link.  The last time I was out, a trout hit the leader link and then came back around and hit it and took it under.  I tied on a royal wulf & caught a couple of fish right away.  A fishing buddy just sent me some flor. orange thread (none available in the 2 shops here) and I’m going to tie up some dries and maybe a few nymphs & try them out.  This should be fun:)

Response:

I’ll also use orange flies during normal water conditions.

  On many lake outings, I either get a strike on an orange strike indicator or the orange leader link.  The last time I was out, a trout hit the leader link and then came back around and hit it and took it under.  I tied on a royal wulf & caught a couple of fish right away.  A fishing buddy just sent me some flor. orange thread (none available in the 2 shops here) and I’m going to tie up some dries and maybe a few nymphs & try them out.  This should be fun:) Bob Skinner   Buffalo, WY — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Willi,    Here in PA, I have noticed the runoff effect myself. Sometimes when one or two of my local streams a muddied, an orange shrimp pattern is about the only thing that will interest the fish. Never gave much thought as to whether it was the food item or the color that interested the fish under those conditions, but I do know it works.                                    Tom Littleton

Response:

Purple is consistently among the most productive colors for NW steelhead, particularly in low light.  No idea why it doesn’t seem to be effective for trout.

Maybe it’s because steelhead hit the fly out of of anger and teritoriality. The bigger and gaudier and more visible the fly, the more likely they are to strike. If you get a chance, watch steelhead or salmon on the redds sometime. There’s typically a female on the redd and a big male hanging out by her, and often one or two smaller males hanging back in the current. When a small male gets to close the big male chases him away, sometimes for quite some distance, and sometimes allowing another small male to sneak up to the female on the redd. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

During the time when the salmon are on the redds orange is more effective for catching steelhead.  After the salmon have spawned and the steelhead are on the redds orange loses it’s effectiveness and streamer patterns in darker colors become more effective. Ernie Purple is consistently among the most productive colors for NW steelhead, particularly in low light.  No idea why it doesn’t seem to be effective for trout.

 "rw" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe it’s because steelhead hit the fly out of of anger and teritoriality. The bigger and gaudier and more visible the fly, the more likely they are to strike. If you get a chance, watch steelhead or salmon on the redds sometime. There’s typically a female on the redd and a big male hanging out by her, and often one or two smaller males hanging back in the current. When a small male gets to close the big male chases him away, sometimes for quite some distance, and sometimes allowing another small male to sneak up to the female on the redd.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Overall, I don’t think that color is a very important factor in a fly’s effectiveness. Light or dark can sometimes make a difference, but there are very few times when, for example, a tan fly will produce better than a light gray one. For me, anyway, the color orange is an exception. It is a good choice for "dirty" water conditions because it is very visible.    i think you are right on target.  one of the best patterns for early spring runoff in the blue ridge is an orange stimulator.    otoh, didn’t someone do a test to determine the most visible color for dark water to be purple? wayno

Hmmm…. has anyone ever tested for colors that turn all fish or certain species "off," like blue food for humans (OK, at least adult humans)? Alfred Hitchcock, IIRC, used to delight in having "Blue Food" parties when he found out about it. R

Response:

That reminds me I lost that fly at the Montana Clave on a small creek. I need to tie some up.  I caught the biggest fish I caught in that creek on it before I lost it and the creek was gin clear. Willi

Pleased to hear that it worked for you.  I have caught fish in clear conditions with it but nothing approaching how well I’ve done with it in off-colour water on the Grand. BTW, yellow shows well to quite a depth, at least in salt water. Peter

Response:

Willie wrote;snipOverall, I don’t think that color is a very important factor in a fly’s effectiveness. Light or dark can sometimes make a difference, but there are very few times when, for example, a tan fly will produce better than a light gray one. For me, anyway, the color orange is an exception

Like you, I don’t think color matters in most cases, but there are times it makes a huge difference. I now carry a chartreuse box, a black box,and a orange box. The little foam spiders I tie in size 10 for bluegill are by far most effective in either black or yellow. I don’t pretend to know why, but I seldom catch bluegill on chartreuse spiders. I have a friend that finds a partridge and orange is by far the best pattern to catch a dragonfly on the backcast. I don’t pretend to understand this either, but he caught two dragonflies on a partridge and orange and this was witnessed. Big Dale  

Response:

        i think you are right on target.  one of the best patterns for early spring runoff in the blue ridge is an orange stimulator.         otoh, didn’t someone do a test to determine the most visible color for dark water to be purple? What I remember of the research was that the color purple was visible at the greatest depth, all other colors were seen as black. The same principal might be true in dirty water because of light transmission. I played around with some purple flies one year but wasn’t impressed with the results. In fact, I found them pretty ineffective.

As to the Orange Stimulator, my limited experience agrees with Wayno.   In my one day at the 2000 Spring Fling, the OS was my best fly.   It was great that the fish liked it, but more important for me at the time was that *I* could see it. As to purple, the only fish I’ve caught with purple flies are Lake Ontario salmon during the fall run.   Some days, purple is the ticket.   Who knows. Joe F.

Response:

… Overall, I don’t think that color is a very important factor in a fly’s effectiveness. Light or dark can sometimes make a difference, but there are very few times when, for example, a tan fly will produce better than a light gray one. For me, anyway, the color orange is an exception. …

For me, it’s always been yellow, if fishing on the surface. Whether bluegill, bass or brookie, popping bug. deer hair bass bug, or humpy, yellow seems the most productive for me. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

What?!  Talking about fish in a politics and stock tips news group?  Don’t you know about netiquette?!

Lot of nerve, eh? Willi My office is all in boxes in the basement otherwise I’d be able to dig out an article written either in Fly Tyer or Fly Fishing & Tying (I think that’s the title) that had an article on the effectiveness of orange.  It’s one of the primary colours used in steelhead flies as well. I think you received a mini-brown from me during the swap.  It’s most effective in off-colour water like the conditions you described for much the same reasons.  Your post is a good reminder – we try hard to match the hatch but every time a trout whacks our strike indicator, just remember that some of them also love bright, trashy things. <g Just like some ROFFians we know,  <g Peter

Response:

        i think you are right on target.  one of the best patterns for early spring runoff in the blue ridge is an orange stimulator.         otoh, didn’t someone do a test to determine the most visible color for dark water to be purple?

What I remember of the research was that the color purple was visible at the greatest depth, all other colors were seen as black. The same principal might be true in dirty water because of light transmission. I played around with some purple flies one year but wasn’t impressed with the results. In fact, I found them pretty ineffective. Willi

Response:

Purple is consistently among the most productive colors for NW steelhead, particularly in low light.  No idea why it doesn’t seem to be effective for trout. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I remember of the research was that the color purple was visible at the greatest depth, all other colors were seen as black. The same principal might be true in dirty water because of light transmission. I played around with some purple flies one year but wasn’t impressed with the results. In fact, I found them pretty ineffective.

Response:

What?!  Talking about fish in a politics and stock tips news group?  Don’t you know about netiquette?! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took part of the day off and headed out to fish a stretch of river that had been fishing well lately.

Response:

Overall, I don’t think that color is a very important factor in a fly’s effectiveness. Light or dark can sometimes make a difference, but there are very few times when, for example, a tan fly will produce better than a light gray one. For me, anyway, the color orange is an exception. It is a good choice for "dirty" water conditions because it is very visible.

        i think you are right on target.  one of the best patterns for early spring runoff in the blue ridge is an orange stimulator.         otoh, didn’t someone do a test to determine the most visible color for dark water to be purple? wayno

Response:

I took part of the day off and headed out to fish a stretch of river that had been fishing well lately. When I got there, the river was up slightly and was running off color, not muddy but more of a chalky tinge like in some spring creeks only more so. They must have been doing a release of water from some small reservoir. Being used to fishing low clear water lately, I was rigged with a small, dark midge pupa. I fished that for awhile with no luck when it dawned on me that the fly was not too appropriate for the water conditions. I changed to one of my "dirty" water flies. I have several that I use but they all have one thing in common – they’re orange. Overall, I don’t think that color is a very important factor in a fly’s effectiveness. Light or dark can sometimes make a difference, but there are very few times when, for example, a tan fly will produce better than a light gray one. For me, anyway, the color orange is an exception. It is a good choice for "dirty" water conditions because it is very visible. I caught more fish today than I had been in the normally very clear water this time of year. The cloudy water allowed me to approach lies closer so I could use a shorter line with more control and it allowed me to take more than one fish from a lie without spooking the others. The orange fly gave the fish something they could readily see. I’ll also use orange flies during normal water conditions.  When I’m in a situation where I feel I should be catching fish but I’m not, an orange fly is one of things that I’ll try. I’m not sure if it’s just the visibility of orange or something else, but even though bright orange is not a color often seen in nature, it can be a trigger for fish.  Few traditional patterns use orange. The first orange fly I used was a Breadcrust. The fly was effective for me and I still fish it in a slightly modified version. Now I tie most of the fly styles I use, from midges to stoneflies, in orange as well as the normal more muted colors. I’ve used a variety of shades of orange. I don’t how much difference the shade of orange matters but I generally use a blend of mainly bright orange with a pinch of bright yellow and a pinch of something dark. Willi

Response:

My office is all in boxes in the basement otherwise I’d be able to dig out an article written either in Fly Tyer or Fly Fishing & Tying (I think that’s the title) that had an article on the effectiveness of orange.  It’s one of the primary colours used in steelhead flies as well. I think you received a mini-brown from me during the swap.  It’s most effective in off-colour water like the conditions you described for much the same reasons.  Your post is a good reminder – we try hard to match the hatch but every time a trout whacks our strike indicator, just remember that some of them also love bright, trashy things. <g Just like some ROFFians we know,  <g

That reminds me I lost that fly at the Montana Clave on a small creek. I need to tie some up.  I caught the biggest fish I caught in that creek on it before I lost it and the creek was gin clear. Willi

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My home river has been alternating on a daily basis between running high and muddy and high and clear with an amber tinge. When it is running amber, the fishing is pretty good, but with the heavy flows, traditional dry techniques aren’t productive. In this heavy flowing, colored water, I’ve been having good success with a technique that was shown to me by an old rancher about twenty years ago. The technique is a fun one and is often productive when the trout are reluctant to come up for traditionally fished dries. It’s a technique geared for fishing fast, heavy water. I use it mainly in pocket water, but it also works on the streamside edges of heavy, deep water and in around any obstructions in deep strong runs. The flies I use are a high floating dry with a wet fly or soft hackle on a dropper of about 2 feet. I generally use a dry about two sizes bigger than I normally would and use a fly two sizes smaller than the dry as a dropper. The dropper is optional but will result in more hookups. I’ll describe the technique for a pocket water situation where I mainly use it. Casts can be short or long, but since you can approach fish closely in pocket water, often surprisingly close, and short casts give you much more control, I use casts of under fifteen feet 90% of the time. The only time I use longer casts is when the water is too deep or heavy to get to an area I want to fish. I try to fish an area thoroughly, even spots where there doesn’t appear to be any rocks that could break up the current, but I concentrate the casts to run through any visible areas where larger rocks provide calm water cushions. I generally a cast up and across stream and immediately raise the rod tip to lift all the fly line off the water and get direct contact with the fly.  I then begin dragging and skipping the fly across the current. I vary the action of the fly but the key is lots of action.  When the flies get in a position just below me, I begin maneuvering them through each small pocket I can find.  I skitter them upstream and down, back and forth through any pockets below. This technique will bring good fish to the surface that ignore more placid, traditional techniques. The quick moving flies result in strikes that are aggressive, vicious, slashing, fast, exciting etc. and you will get many more misses than hookups. Setting the hook at the strike usually results in pulling the fly away from the trout. Strikes need to be delayed but because of the tight line, the fish will usually hook themselves. Since there are a large percentage of missed fish with this technique, the feeding locations and holding areas that are revealed, need to be fished again. Since most of these missed strikes, refusals etc. are to the larger, more visible dry, the next thing I do is to try to maneuver the small dropper through the area trying to skip it across the surface. If this doesn’t work, I do a number of traditional drag free drifts through the area, paying close attention for hits on the dropper. This technique is definitely a kick when it’s working.  It elicits strikes from trout more akin to those of a bass or a pike to a popper than a typical sedate sip to a dry. I tend to ignore the technique when the fish are rising to more typical techniques but maybe I shouldn’t. Willi Interesting technique Willi.  I think most of us have used a similar

approach for pocket water, but not with a dropper, and not with a systematic plan.  For me its been an approach used out of necessity at times for fishing pocket water, especially casting over currents or boulders.  I’ll try it next opportunity. Pat K Before you buy.

Response:

My home river has been alternating on a daily basis between running high and muddy and high and clear with an amber tinge. When it is running amber, the fishing is pretty good, but with the heavy flows, traditional dry techniques aren’t productive. In this heavy flowing, colored water, I’ve been having good success with a technique that was shown to me by an old rancher about twenty years ago. The technique is a fun one and is often productive when the trout are reluctant to come up for traditionally fished dries. It’s a technique geared for fishing fast, heavy water. I use it mainly in pocket water, but it also works on the streamside edges of heavy, deep water and in around any obstructions in deep strong runs. The flies I use are a high floating dry with a wet fly or soft hackle on a dropper of about 2 feet. I generally use a dry about two sizes bigger than I normally would and use a fly two sizes smaller than the dry as a dropper. The dropper is optional but will result in more hookups. I’ll describe the technique for a pocket water situation where I mainly use it. Casts can be short or long, but since you can approach fish closely in pocket water, often surprisingly close, and short casts give you much more control, I use casts of under fifteen feet 90% of the time. The only time I use longer casts is when the water is too deep or heavy to get to an area I want to fish. I try to fish an area thoroughly, even spots where there doesn’t appear to be any rocks that could break up the current, but I concentrate the casts to run through any visible areas where larger rocks provide calm water cushions. I generally a cast up and across stream and immediately raise the rod tip to lift all the fly line off the water and get direct contact with the fly.  I then begin dragging and skipping the fly across the current. I vary the action of the fly but the key is lots of action.  When the flies get in a position just below me, I begin maneuvering them through each small pocket I can find.  I skitter them upstream and down, back and forth through any pockets below. This technique will bring good fish to the surface that ignore more placid, traditional techniques. The quick moving flies result in strikes that are aggressive, vicious, slashing, fast, exciting etc. and you will get many more misses than hookups. Setting the hook at the strike usually results in pulling the fly away from the trout. Strikes need to be delayed but because of the tight line, the fish will usually hook themselves. Since there are a large percentage of missed fish with this technique, the feeding locations and holding areas that are revealed, need to be fished again. Since most of these missed strikes, refusals etc. are to the larger, more visible dry, the next thing I do is to try to maneuver the small dropper through the area trying to skip it across the surface. If this doesn’t work, I do a number of traditional drag free drifts through the area, paying close attention for hits on the dropper. This technique is definitely a kick when it’s working.  It elicits strikes from trout more akin to those of a bass or a pike to a popper than a typical sedate sip to a dry. I tend to ignore the technique when the fish are rising to more typical techniques but maybe I shouldn’t. Willi

Response:

Question:

Phew. Good story. How about more of this? Who out there among us has ever written a story for publication, only to have it rejected by some pip-squeek assistant editor? Why not publish yourself on the web? right here? This beats the hell out of C&R pissing. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

Response:

Why not publish yourself on the web? right here?

What, and give away blood, sweat & tears FOR FREE ? My literary agent would have a coronary. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

‘There’s nothing like making a definitive stement on the net to provehow wrong you are’

Too true, too true!

Response:

Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch.

(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

Response:

(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

Perfectly true, I know, I was that trout ! TL MC

Response:

Damn bait fisherman!  We need more bartenders like that around all trout streams! Warren

Response:

Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch. If some of the local worthies were to be believed he had been doing this every summer for the last ten years. Experts and tyros, men of letters, small boys with worms,  although the water was fly only, and even lowly poachers,  had all attempted the difficult cast at one time or another over the years, some even successfully, the jaw of the fish was laced with white scars easily visible in the clear water, testimony to the "barbs and arrows of outrageous fortune" to which he had been subjected and which he now bore with seeming nonchalance, perhaps even truculent pride. A hard won but most excellent education.  In the "Stag

Question:

        more better:  absolut and tonic, no lime, at twilight.         wayno         sulphur creek

OK  Wayne, what’s this more better coming from you? Unless you’ve had a few. Try this; SOBE Lizard Fuel with that Absolute, but then again this could be a Lady’s drink.;-) Missed the hatch. Doug Knight Snake River

Response:

Drys at twilight. Doug Knight Snake River

        more better:  absolut and tonic, no lime, at twilight.         wayno         sulphur creek – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

[snippped] Last fall fishing on the Trinity required about  90% of the day roll casting a weighted fly with a sink tip. Weighted fly?!? Hey Doug: did George read that over your shoulder? Is he still alive?

Nope! I’m free, white and single aand I can speak for myself. George doesn’t know all my tricks. I keep my indicators out of sight when he’s around. George alive? The heat has worked him hard today. He wasn’t in the shop past noon. When the weather cools off he’ll  be in better spirits. Drys at twilight. Doug Knight Snake River

Response:

[snippped] Last fall fishing on the Trinity required about  90% of the day roll casting a weighted fly with a sink tip.

Weighted fly?!? Hey Doug: did George read that over your shoulder? Is he still alive? /daytripper

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0] : I’m getting tired of pulling my flies out of the brush.. and never : getting enough distance on my cast (in spite of countless but : fruitless false casts) to get my fly where I want it to be. : Does anyone know of a local instructor they would recommend?  Yea, I : do know of some local shops to ask around at, but I’d rather have a : first hand recommendation if you’ve got one. : -Mark You might want to check out the Peninsula Fly Fishers Club. We do a casting clinic once a month. The next one will be on Aug 21 at Erckenbrack Park in Foster City. See our web site http://www.geocities.com/~mpff .  Another possibility is the San Jose Fly Fishers who have clinics on some Thursday evenings down at the casting ponds in Campbell, but I am not sure of the details. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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I’m getting tired of pulling my flies out of the brush.. and never getting enough distance on my cast (in spite of countless but fruitless false casts) to get my fly where I want it to be. Does anyone know of a local instructor they would recommend?  Yea, I do know of some local shops to ask around at, but I’d rather have a first hand recommendation if you’ve got one. -Mark — Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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I’m getting tired of pulling my flies out of the brush.. and never getting enough distance on my cast (in spite of countless but fruitless false casts) to get my fly where I want it to be. Does anyone know of a local instructor they would recommend?  Yea, I do know of some local shops to ask around at, but I’d rather have a first hand recommendation if you’ve got one.

Mark, It’s goes back to this presentation thing. Back cast in the trees? It sounds like you need to master one valuable casting ability, the roll cast. Once you learn it, you won’t need the trees anymore. You’ll spend more time fishing instead of digging and tearing at the flora. You’ll need to be on the water or a casting pond to really learn this. Golden Gate Park or Maceran(sp) Park in the east bay are good locations with casting ponds. Last fall fishing on the Trinity required about  90% of the day roll casting a weighted fly with a sink tip. The only flies that I lost on that trip were on the bottom where I needed to be. Roll away. The roll cast is only the front end of the cast. Doug Knight Snake River

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Question:

George, For the 3 wt. we need a medium action.  I like a fast action rod because of my casting style but for small streams and casting tippet most of the time, the slower action is more accurate and has more finesse.  Since we are talking mostly Brook trout and small stream fishing I have been working on a name.  No blockbuster yet comes to mind.  So far its Little Bastard, Small Stream Bastard, Mr. Rapidan Bastard (Monteague had a Rapidan many years ago), or that Bastard Brookie.  Still needs work. Wayne to fish is human….to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – parties, such as finding some really GREAT Tonkin Cane.  Since I don’t take things for granted Wayne, I would rather admit up front that I may be blind sided, but I assure you, once I have the Cane and the forms I can get yours out just so I can keep my word, if need be.  (I have the tapers)  Do you want a medium or fast fly rod for a three weight? I’m trying to think of a Model name for the 6.5′ .  See the Bastard Page on the web.  I need help in this area. George Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Folks, the more i read, the less i know.. having been away for several week,s I note that resident most hated/most loved roff guy g g is working on "the bastard"!?!? could someone please clue me in… clearly it is a fly rod and not some bizarre confession. Enquiring minds want to know! edwin —

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I tried the Demo and it is a lot like Trophy Bass. Since I own Trophy Bass and enjoy it I think I would definitely enjoy Trophy Rivers. I haven’t ordered it as of yet but I probably will before too long. It’s a fun way to spend an evening when you’re tired of tying flies <Grin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has any one tried the Trophy rivers fly fishing game?

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I tried the demo and was very impressed.  The Trophy Bass I & II games are supposed to be terriffic.  I was always hoping they would release a fly fishing cyber-angling (that’s their term) game. Enjoy, Josh I think the release day of the game is today, November 21. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Has any one tried the Trophy rivers fly fishing game?  

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It’s a fun way to spend an evening when you’re tired of tying flies <Grin

How could you ever get tired of tying flies? Bryce

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writes: Can anyone give me some good advice on flyfishing in CentralNorth Jersey.  I’m new to the area and have fished on the south branch of the Raritan (Califon), but it’s incredibly crowded.  Would appreciate any pointers E-mail me back! Thanks Paul Amatangelo

Paul, Along with the Musconetcong River, you may want to try the Pequest, Paulinskill, and Big Flatbrook in New Jersey.  However, you may want to drive the extra distance and fish such rivers as the Bushkill and Lackawaxen in Pennsylvania, as well as the Beaverkill, Esopus, and the East & West branches of the Delaware River in New York. All these rivers are within two hours driving time from northern New Jersey.     Good Luck!

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I am 15 years old and live in Princeton NJ. I just started Fly Fishing a year ago and have tried many a spots in this area. Right in Princeton is the Stoney Brook which is stocked with trout and other fish and is known to produce bass and perch. The Assunpink River (not lake) has alot of perch and Shad and has produced a few trout and bass for me. The Pequest and Flatbrook rivers are also very good for trout. But for bass fly I would recomend a spot that I found two years ago when I was a spin fisher. It is in the Delaware Raritan canal. IT is right by the main entrance to the Bulls Island Campground on the Delaware River. Its on the New Jersey side in case your confused. Thats all I can THink of but if you would like advice on other spots feel free to write. Matt

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Saturday, May6 I went to the North branch of the Raritan at Rte 206 and 287. Very little crowd.  I didn’t catch any trout but another fellow had 3 on a stringer.

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Can anyone give me some good advice on flyfishing in CentralNorth Jersey.  I’m new to the area and have fished on the south branch of the Raritan (Califon), but it’s incredibly crowded.  Would appreciate any pointers E-mail me back! Thanks Paul Amatangelo

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Try the Musky west of the route 24 bridge just pass the fly stretch. This area has produced some 8 lb fish. I know, from first hand experience I didnt catch it, put a witnessed the fight and landing of the monster. The person who caught it was a rookie, only his third time out. Some people have all the luck. Good Luck.

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Question:

(Fournier Thomas A.J.) writes: Am having trouble casting more than 15 feet without knots in line.

I’m sure you can cast further than that, but I get the point. Usually, excessive knotting is the result of overpowering the cast, thus allowing tailing loops to form. Spend an hour in an open space–not fishing. Watch your cast as you gradually work out line to different distances. I’ll bet you’ll find two things. First, your backcast is breaking down, causing the line to describe something more like a figure-8 than a pair of balanced loops. The remedy is to add a little more power at the start of the backcast and to move your forearm in an upwards direction as it sweeps past you. Second, I’ll bet your loops are *real* tight right now, even with the breakdown. Slow down and open the loop a bit. The line will accept more power (speed) and travel further with less effort. If your loops stand one foot tall or less, that’s too tight and wind knots are inevitable. Try the graduated target method for an afternoon. E-mail me if you need any info on how to set that up. Good luck! JL 8-Wt Editor

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(Fournier Thomas A.J.) writes: Am having trouble casting more than 15 feet without knots in line. Best advice I’ve received — don’t cast with your wrist.  Your wrist stays locked, and tight (almost touching) the pole, and your arm does the casting.  This forces you to move your arm quickly, from 10 o’clock to 2 o’clock and back, to achieve the desired result.  If you do this, you’re casting with the strength of your arm and back and not just with your wrist — you get less tired and the line shoots farther and straighter. Ben

Ben is giving you excellent advice here. My local guru gave me a little casting clinic a few weeks ago and got me to break the bad habit of cocking my wrist on the backcast by tying my forearm to the reel seat – he used a peice of monofilament, but a heavy rubber band would work even better.  I can now lay out sixty or seventy-foot casts with a DT 3-wt., where before I couldn’t do much better than forty or fifty feet.  I found that not cock- ing my wrist has also kept the fly off the water (or in the bushes) on the backcast.  I’m convinced this helps in not spooking a pool.  So get a heavy rubber band or one of those spool keepers and practice a while fishing for lawn trout.  I hope it helps you as much as it has me!  Also, if you’re knotting your line it may because you’re starting your forecast too soon. Try laying off until the rod is "loaded", i.e., ’til you feel the weight of the backcast really pull on the rod tip. Cheers,

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(Fournier Thomas A.J.) writes: Am having trouble casting more than 15 feet without knots in line.

MISATTRIBUTION!!! I can cast 15 feet.  Honest.  No, really. Best advice I’ve received — don’t cast with your wrist.  Your wrist stays locked, and tight (almost touching) the pole, and your arm does the casting.  This forces you to move your arm quickly, from 10 o’clock to 2 o’clock and back, to achieve the desired result.  If you do this, you’re casting with the strength of your arm and back and not just with your wrist — you get less tired and the line shoots farther and straighter. Ben

Good advice. Keep your stick on the ice. Thos.

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I have a Sage fishing pole and the line seems to be sticking in the bottom loop by the handle.  Is this unusual?

Not sure if you mean the little loop just above the handle cork/foam (which is parallel to the rod instead of perpendicular), but if your line is strung through it, that might be the problem. That bottom loop is just there to hook a fly to while you’re not fishing, to keep the fly from snagging on trees, shrubs, and ears of friends. Not sure if this was what you meant by bottom loop, but I thought I’d pipe up just in case. — Scott Ferguson                          My views are mine; what’s mine is mine Cray Computer Corporation       http://www.craycos.com/~ferguson/ferguson.html

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  I’ve been having some problems casting and I wondered if anyone could give me some advice.  I’m kinda new to fly fishing so any advice would greatly be appreciated. I’ve been having trouble casting more than about fifteen feet without getting knots around my fly or tiring myself out. I don’t understand what I am doing wrong. I’ve followed all the directions they gave me at the fishing school I went to .  I’m afraid it might be my fishing pole that might be the trouble.  I have a Sage fishing pole and the line seems to be sticking in the bottom loop by the handle.  Is this unusual? Does anyone else have this problem?  Is my

Ref. "bottom loop":  someone else has already pointed out fly line should be strung from reel to tip only through fly rod guides, not the hook keeper attached just above the handle. Ref. "fifteen feet": modern fly rods are rated to flex under the weight of the first 30 feet of a particular line.  If less line than 30 feet extends beyond the rod tip, it’s that much harder to get the rod to flex OK.  I.e. it’s (usually) harder to cast a fly 20 feet than 40 feet. Unmentioned common casting error is failure to hold the line in the left hand so that it does not move relative to the stripper guide.  While the rod is moving (false casting) the line length beyond the tip should be held constant by left-hand control.  If the line is travelling up and down the guides, i.e. getting longer and shorter, energy is being lost rather than being transferred from hand to rod to line beyond tip. —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Am having trouble casting more than 15 feet without knots in line. Best advice I’ve received — don’t cast with your wrist.  Your wrist stays  locked, and tight (almost touching) the pole, and your arm does the  casting.   This forces you to move your arm quickly, from 10 o’clock to 2  o’clock and back, to achieve the desired result.  If you do this, you’re  casting with the strength of your arm and back and not just with your   wrist — you get less tired and the line shoots farther and straighter. Ben

I would also suggest reading Mel Krieger’s book, "The Essence of Fly Casting" and watching his videos. Gary W. Godden

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(Fournier Thomas A.J.) writes: Am having trouble casting more than 15 feet without knots in line.

Best advice I’ve received — don’t cast with your wrist.  Your wrist stays locked, and tight (almost touching) the pole, and your arm does the casting.  This forces you to move your arm quickly, from 10 o’clock to 2 o’clock and back, to achieve the desired result.  If you do this, you’re casting with the strength of your arm and back and not just with your wrist — you get less tired and the line shoots farther and straighter. Ben

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  I’ve been having some problems casting and I wondered if anyone could give me some advice.  I’m kinda new to fly fishing so any advice would greatly be appreciated. I’ve been having trouble casting more than about fifteen feet without getting knots around my fly or tiring myself out.

Try cleaning your fly line.  I find that if I practice on a lawn (especially a new mown lawn) gunk accumulates that impedes the smooth flow of the line through the guides.  When the line is sticky I have to work harder to shoot line.  When I work hard my timing goes off, I "punch" the line out, and I get wind knots. Keep your stick on the ice. Thos.

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  I’ve been having some problems casting and I wondered if anyone could give me some advice.  I’m kinda new to fly fishing so any advice would greatly be appreciated. I’ve been having trouble casting more than about fifteen feet without getting knots around my fly or tiring myself out. Unmentioned common casting error is failure to hold the line in the left hand so that it does not move relative to the stripper guide.  While the rod is moving (false casting) the line length beyond the tip should be held constant by left-hand control.  If the line is travelling up and down the guides, i.e. getting longer and shorter, energy is being lost rather than being transferred from hand to rod to line beyond tip.

FWIW: I had real problems keeping the energy going as well, until a kindly passer-by pointed out this last to me, and also taught me to "load the rod", as he called it. Just a little yank (4-6") on the line with my left hand just as I begin to go forward on the cast really helps me a lot. Also, I was not waiting long enough on the backcast for the line to go all the way out. I still count "one-mississippi-two", but as my .sig shows, I mostly plug & chug, so I don’t get a whole lotta practice. Anyway, without that guy I probably woulda chucked the whole thing, so thanks guy if you’re out there. (Course, I didn’t have a Sage, either)         /   V  V  V  V  V  V  V  /      King’s Computer Management, Inc.        <   0  0  0  0  0  0  0  (o   1633 NE Hwy 10      VVV              Y                 612-784-8042 (voice)                      VVV Heddon Lucky 13 leopard: the lure doesn’t catch fish, fish catch the lure. Opinions? I’m married. I am not allowed to have opinions.

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* Le 09-25-94, JENNIFER LEIGH BOUGHNER exprimait . ALL le propos suivant: JL   I’ve been having some problems casting and I wondered if anyone could JLgive me some advice.   <deleted stuff JLmight be my fishing pole that might be the trouble.  I have a Sage JLfishing pole and the line seems to be sticking in the bottom loop by the <deleted stuff JLfat part be hanging up?  We used orvis poles at my school and we didn’t JLhave any trouble at all. One thing you might want to verify is the flexibility of your Sage pole compare to the Orvis. If you have a soft pole (or slow action) compare to a stiff pole (or fast action) there might be the source of your problem. You have to wait more before changing direction in your cast, to give the line the time to extend completely and the pole to charge (whip action) to the max. If you do not wait enough, than your doing all the work and not the pole. Furthermore, I noticed myself that when I’m not doing it right there are nots in my line. I hope this help. Au plaisir de vous lire, Denis Lamy Trois-Rivieres (Quebec, Canada) ~~~ * VbReader 2.2 #67 * La pensee n’est helas souvent qu’un eclair dans la nuit.

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   I’ve been having some problems casting and I wondered if anyone could give me some advice.  I’m kinda new to fly fishing so any advice would greatly be appreciated. I’ve been having trouble casting more than about fifteen feet without getting knots around my fly or tiring myself out. I don’t understand what I am doing wrong. I’ve followed all the directions they gave me at the fishing school I went to .  I’m afraid it might be my fishing pole that might be the trouble.  I have a Sage fishing pole and the line seems to be sticking in the bottom loop by the handle.  Is this unusual? Does anyone else have this problem?  Is my line too big? I have the line with the triangle in the front. Could the fat part be hanging up?  We used orvis poles at my school and we didn’t have any trouble at all. Thanks for your help, Jennifer    " In our family there wasn’t a clear line between religion and fly fishing.."                 …Norman Mclean

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I’ve been having some problems casting and I wondered if anyone could give me some advice.

It sounds like you’re trying to cast too fast. One of the main reasons for "wind knots" is too quick a motion through the cast. The loop gets too tight, resulting in tailing loops, wind knots and no distance. A very helpful exercise, particularly when getting used to a new rod, is to set out a couple of markers at ten-foot intervals. Start with the ten-foot mark and lay down just enough line to reach it. Pull the line off the reel and manually lay it on the ground between you and the mar if you have to. Then, without pulling any line back through the guides, simply pick the line up with the rod, swing it behind you and lay it back down onto the ten-foot mark as gently as possible. Do this as many times as it takes until you’re comfortable and consistent. Then do the same with the 20-foot mark. You should be able to pick up 25 to 30 feet of line off grass without having to do more than swing the rod back and forth. This exercise will teach you the rythm of your rod and your own body. Once you’ve found those, casting further should be easy. Personally, I floundered around for months before I tried this exercise. Once I did, casting problems get much less severe. It’s no panacea, but I’ve tried it with other novices and all have found that it helped. Good luck! JL 8-Wt Editor LPM Editor

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Question:

Ten Tips for Beginning Fly Fishers* x xBy Clay Riness x x1.  Don’t take yourself too seriously…it’s supposed to be fun. You don’t have to have the mind of Einstein and the hand-eye coordination of Stefan Edberg to enjoy fly fishing–as much of the contemporary literature seems to suggest. True, catching wary trout can be difficult. But learning to have fun with a flyrod is not difficult at all. x x2.  Seek a mentor. All kinds of fly fishing instruction is available: books, videos, schools, clinics, ad infinitum. Each has its place, but nothing compares to what you learn standing at the side of a veteran angler. The friendship you develop is very special, too. x x3.  Quit thinking of fly fishing solely in terms of trout. All fish are fun on a flyrod! Bass,bluegills, crappies, northern pike, even carp- go forth and figure out how to hook them. x x4. Choose your tackle wisely. Forget about buying an "entry level" rod, reel and line. You’ll blame yourself for its lack of performance, and it won’t have any resale value. Check around; try different rods; ask your mentor’s advice. x x5. Join fishing-related organizations and clubs.  You’ll meet people who share your interests, and who are willing to share their expertise as well. Plus, you’ll be contributing to the protection of the resource. x x6. Learn to cast on grass, not water. use your yard, or a local park (or even a gymnasium, if one’s available). This way, you can concentrate strictly on developing and improving your casting, without having to worry about anything else. The flyrod can be a tool of great precision; you’ll catch a zillion more fish in the long run by knowing how to use that tool before you face your quarry. Besides, if you can’t get your fly to the fish, you can’t fish. x x7. Take up a little basic  fly tying. Losing flies is much easier when it’s a ratty old thing you tied for eight cents, instead of a two dollar bit of fluff with an intimidating name. Catching fish on your home-tied creation is a lot more fun, too. And if you keep at it, you’ll eventually be able to tie fancy bits of fluff with intimidating names. x x8. Get free catalogues. You can learn all incredible amount about fly fishing by studying the wishbooks that cater to it. You’ll also get an idea of what’s out there in the way of tackle. x x9. Keep a notebook of your experiences. Keeping a journal affords you the luxury of reliving your adventures in your own words. You will also be able to process this information over the seasons, and learn from it. x x10.  Go Fishing! x xClay Riness is the proprietor of Rocking Trout Spring Creek Fishing Service in Coon Valley, Wisconsin. x x x*Story from the FFF Story File x x

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Ten Tips for Beginning Fly Fishers* x x6. Learn to cast on grass, not water. use your yard, or a local park (or even a gymnasium, if one’s available). This way, you can concentrate strictly on developing and improving your casting, without having to worry about anything else.

I agree to a point.  Picking up your line before the back cast is an important aspect and the feel of the line coming off the water is different than coming off of grass.   x x7. Take up a little basic  fly tying. Losing flies is much easier when it’s a ratty old thing you tied for eight cents, instead of a two dollar bit of fluff with an intimidating name. Catching fish on your home-tied creation is a lot more fun, too. And if you keep at it, you’ll eventually be able to tie fancy bits of fluff with intimidating names.

More importantly, I think fly tying makes you much more aware of the insects that you are trying to immitate and the various stages.  You’re not just fishing with a fancy bit of fluff with an intimidating name but a representation of a real insect. — John Fereira Pleasanton, CA

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