Question:

Hey Bob, you ever fish at Montauk? Wolfgang

Absotively. My one and hopefully only experience with a flash flood was at Montauk. For those who are unfamiliar with it, Montauk is a Missouri state trout park. A very small stream runs into it, and then is joined by the outflow from a large spring, thereby creating the headwater of the Current River, a National Scenic River. The Current really is a beautiful stream. One rainy day I was standing in a pool at the confluence of the spring and the stream when I suddenly felt the water becoming warm. I hadn’t had much beer recently, so I knew it warn’t my fault. Then I saw a few leaves and debris in the water, which I attributed to kids playing upstream. When the water began to visibly rise, it finally registered in my brain that it was raining upstream. By the time I moved fifteen feet from the pool to the bank the water had risen from waist deep to shoulder deep, and was still rising. It was not just the cold that had my legs trembling. It was truly a frightening experience. Montauk is heavily stocked. But I have the honor of having been skunked there. Haven’t been in several years, but it’s a marvelous place for new fly fishers and for kids. Bob

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Since I just got my first digital camera (Olympus D-40), I use this opportunity to compare it with my old Minolta XG-1.  Got the scanner now, so can put in pics from either. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Bob, you ever fish at Montauk? Wolfgang Absotively. My one and hopefully only experience with a flash flood was at Montauk. For those who are unfamiliar with it, Montauk is a Missouri state trout park. A very small stream runs into it, and then is joined by the outflow from a large spring, thereby creating the headwater of the Current River, a National Scenic River. The Current really is a beautiful stream. One rainy day I was standing in a pool at the confluence of the spring and the stream when I suddenly felt the water becoming warm. I hadn’t had much beer recently, so I knew it warn’t my fault. Then I saw a few leaves and debris in the water, which I attributed to kids playing upstream. When the water began to visibly rise, it finally registered in my brain that it was raining upstream. By the time I moved fifteen feet from the pool to the bank the water had risen from waist deep to shoulder deep, and was still rising. It was not just the cold that had my legs trembling. It was truly a frightening experience. Montauk is heavily stocked. But I have the honor of having been skunked there. Haven’t been in several years, but it’s a marvelous place for new fly fishers and for kids.

I fished there several times when I was living in Black about eleven years ago.  As far as I recall, I never caught a fish.  At that time, I fished dries exclusively (these days I enjoy fishing streamers and will, occasionally, fish nymphs when pressed) and I believe every dry fly purist I saw there suffered the same fate as I; only nymphers caught fish on flies.  Much of the park was open to bait fishers, but some of the water was reserved for flies only.  The rangers used to sit up on the hill with binoculars in this stretch, and every once in while they would rush down to bust some idiot. I remember that in addition to having to purchase a fishing license, fishing within the park required having a daily tag.  For each tag sold, the hatchery managers would release three new fish on the following day.  The daily creel limit was three fish.  Naturally, not everyone caught and kept the legal limit….in fact, MOST did not.  One is left to suppose that the excess fish somehow found their way out of the park and met their fate elsewhere.  Vending machines (the kind where you stick a quarter in the slot and turn the handle) lined the rearing ponds at every ten yards or so.  Tourists were more than willing to pay a quarter to get a handful of trout pellets and cast them upon the waters to watch the fish go into a frenzy.  I suspect that the managers never had to feed the fish.  The fish, for their part, were generally not inclined to eat anything that looked like a bug. Beautiful, clear and presumably nearly sterile water water within the park.  Well, probably not sterile (I THINK there was a lot of limestone in the area), but near enough to the spring that there was little plant life evident and whatever bugs lived there were probably quickly snatched up by the few fish that remained alive and in the park long enough to figure out that not all food was pellet shaped. Altogether, a pretty weird fishing experience but a lovely place nonetheless.  NC, as you will see if you haven’t already, is a whole ‘nother thang.      :) Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now that the thesis is done, it’s time to do something with my long ignored site.  Over the next couple of months I’ll be using existing <snip Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html Peter,  What an outstanding collection of pictures and knowledge!  My education in streamer fishing just jumped from first grade to at least 7th or 8th.  I’ll be giving streamer fishing more of a chance than I have in the past. (Thank goodness for wireless internet.  With my old, slow dial up connection, I never would have looked at your site or any other with lots of pictures as it was just too painful to wait while even one picture loaded Snoop

Pleased that it was of some use. Hopefully by the late fall, I’ll have updated most sections as it’s become dated.  And yes, it’s designed with high speed access in mind. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Now that the thesis is done, it’s time to do something with my long ignored site.  Over the next couple of months I’ll be using existing <snip Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Peter,   What an outstanding collection of pictures and knowledge!  My education in streamer fishing just jumped from first grade to at least 7th or 8th.  I’ll be giving streamer fishing more of a chance than I have in the past. (Thank goodness for wireless internet.  With my old, slow dial up connection, I never would have looked at your site or any other with lots of pictures as it was just too painful to wait while even one picture loaded Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – post more, please.  are there trout in the meramec? Here are a few pix of a tributary of the Meramec River in Missouri named Blue Spring Creek. It’s a tiny little wild trout stream, and I’ve gotten to know it pretty well over the last ten years or so. It’s perfect for my Sage LL 7′9" 3-weight. Even did some electro-shock sampling there with the department of conservation people a few years ago, and was astonished at what we found. The fish shown in the last image below is a typical but a bit large BSC rainbow. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-1.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-2.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-oct-2.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-Rainbow-1.jpg

Those look very nice indeed – is this a spring creek? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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indeed – is this a spring creek? Peter

Thanks. I’m glad you liked them. Yes, this is a spring creek. We have some very large springs – like, the size of houses. Blue Springs Creek is the outflow from several relatively small springs in very close proximity to each other. I’ve caught some fairly large (15 – 18 inches) trout there out of pools smaller than a desk. History trivia: Theodore Roosevelt once fished it. If it’s good enough for a Bullmoose it’s good enough for me! Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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indeed – is this a spring creek? Peter Thanks. I’m glad you liked them. Yes, this is a spring creek. We have some very large springs – like, the size of houses. Blue Springs Creek is the outflow from several relatively small springs in very close proximity to each other. I’ve caught some fairly large (15 – 18 inches) trout there out of pools smaller than a desk. History trivia: Theodore Roosevelt once fished it. If it’s good enough for a Bullmoose it’s good enough for me!

Hey Bob, you ever fish at Montauk? Wolfgang

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Now that the thesis is done, it’s time to do something with my long ignored site.  Over the next couple of months I’ll be using existing photos of the rivers I’ve fished to put together essays on each one. They certainly won’t be shining examples of photographic art, merely representations of different aspects of the river and it’s species. It’s just a means of putting up a gallery in a thematic way. I’d be very pleased to also put up other people’s river essays. (With appropriate credit, of course.)   All that’s required is a few photos and a caption for each one. Digital photos happily accepted.  Fine art B&W also.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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//snip// I’d be very pleased to also put up other people’s river essays. (With appropriate credit, of course.)   All that’s required is a few photos and a caption for each one. Digital photos happily accepted.  Fine art B&W also.  :)

Peter – I enjoyed your photos of the Nith. It would be great to see pictures of the rivers haunted by some of the folks around here. Here are some of mine. Use them, or not, as you see fit. This is a photo of the Meramec River in east central Missouri, near the town of Rosati. This location is below a bluff we call "Suicide Hill. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/Meramec-SH.jpg This is the same river from the top of the bluff: http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/View.JPG If these work OK I have a few more of a different stream I’d be happy to send. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter – I enjoyed your photos of the Nith. It would be great to see pictures of the rivers haunted by some of the folks around here. Here are some of mine. Use them, or not, as you see fit. This is a photo of the Meramec River in east central Missouri, near the town of Rosati. This location is below a bluff we call "Suicide Hill. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/Meramec-SH.jpg This is the same river from the top of the bluff: http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/View.JPG If these work OK I have a few more of a different stream I’d be happy to send. Bob

Thanks Bob, If you have a couple more of the Meramec, that’ll be great.  I would hope to have a few dozen rivers eventually, each with a little story – location, species, etc. and something that makes the river unique or special.  I’m presently assembling and scanning photos for the Grand and I should have that up in a few days.  On top of what people send me, I intent is to have the Grand, Credit, Saugeen, Whitemans, Bronte, the Rapid and if I have enough photos, both AuSables and the Muskegon.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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post more, please.  are there trout in the meramec? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter – I enjoyed your photos of the Nith. It would be great to see pictures of the rivers haunted by some of the folks around here. Here are some of mine. Use them, or not, as you see fit. This is a photo of the Meramec River in east central Missouri, near the town of Rosati. This location is below a bluff we call "Suicide Hill. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/Meramec-SH.jpg This is the same river from the top of the bluff: http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/View.JPG If these work OK I have a few more of a different stream I’d be happy to send. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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//snip If you have a couple more of the Meramec, that’ll be great.  I would hope to have a few dozen rivers eventually, each with a little story – location, species, etc. and something that makes the river unique or special.  I’m presently assembling and scanning photos for the Grand and I should have that up in a few days.  On top of what people send me, I intent is to have the Grand, Credit, Saugeen, Whitemans, Bronte, the Rapid and if I have enough photos, both AuSables and the Muskegon.

OK – let me see what I can figure out. The Meramec is not Missouri’s best trout stream, but it can be fairly photogenic in places. More later. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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post more, please.  are there trout in the meramec? jeff

OK. As soon as I figure out how to keep from posting a ten meg graphics file. Yes. There are wild rainbows in the Meramec. It also has a population of browns, but since browns don’t reproduce in Missouri they are mostly holdovers. The department of conservation stocks browns and rainbows annually in the Meramec, but there are other streams that have not been stocked in years. Most of the wild trout in MO were brought here from California by railroaders a hundred years ago. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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post more, please.  are there trout in the meramec?

Here are a few pix of a tributary of the Meramec River in Missouri named Blue Spring Creek. It’s a tiny little wild trout stream, and I’ve gotten to know it pretty well over the last ten years or so. It’s perfect for my Sage LL 7′9" 3-weight. Even did some electro-shock sampling there with the department of conservation people a few years ago, and was astonished at what we found. The fish shown in the last image below is a typical but a bit large BSC rainbow. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-1.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-2.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-oct-2.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-Rainbow-1.jpg — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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Question:

I’ve used a Discovery 17 regular stern with a motor mount as a fishing "boat" on rivers and small lakes.  A canoe is a great way to get around by paddle.  A motor just doesn’t work all that well, unless you’ve a a fairly wide boat with some kind of keel.  But I’ve done it and would continue to do so, if I couldn’t get my hands on a boat.  And then you’re not talking about a true canoe, anyway. I’d get a carolina skiff or a jonboat for what you want to do.  You’ll be able to stand and move around much more easily.  But if you’re wanting to cartop, then the Sportboat will work.  Just remember that canoes are really for paddling in the 15 to 18 foot size. Best of all, get a river dory, mount a small motor, and you’re set for all kinds of fishing in small lakes and any kind of river.  Great casting platforms.  Great stability.  Can tow with almost any car due to light weight. Mike

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I realy enjoy my guide 147.  I just got an outrigger for additional stability while fishing in lakes.  they work very well and cost about $200, and clamp on, no perminate holes.  One can stand in their canoe with the outrigger…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

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Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

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Having just visited the Old Town web site a couple of days ago, your post caught my eye right away. While I can’t give any personal advice directly, you should check out their site if you haven’t already been there.  It’s exceptional, both with respect to lots of information and also, it’s easy to navigate. Their address is:  http://www.otccanoe.com/ They do have a dealer locator option on their menu choices which may come in handy in case you don’t get the sought after responses to your post here. Regards, Trent Roberson —  Rx F Fish — For your good health, Fly Fish     A Datasource about Fly Fishing Topics            http://www.rxffish.com           Discussion & Chat Groups      http://www.studio128.net/rxffish_1            Free Business Listings Fly Fishing related Companies & Organizations      http://rxffish.com/data_input.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

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Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers.

I own a Discovery 174 (pointy ends) that I like a lot.   It’s quite stable, tracks well, and lightwei…..     Okay, it’s stable & tracks well. Actually, it weighs in at a mere 84 pounds, & I can handle it myself, but it’s a beast to lift overhead.   I fitted it with a removeable motor mount and a 35# thrust electric motor & it moves right along on lakes.   I expect that a square transom would only make it better for that.   I even did some mild whitewater with it once, but that was hell on the cosmetics – I wouldn’t recommend it.   Slow rivers should be no problem. Joe F.

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Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

I can’t comment on that particular model, but I can tell you my (and my family’s) experience with Old Town has been wonderful,  if about 100 years and at least 3 generations (including a still-used ‘glassed over canvasback) says anything.   As to square sterns, don’t like them.  What we have is a bracket that mounts on the gunwale, and it has handled up to around a 7.5 hp (a 5 or less will do fine, but the dink pusher was handy).  That way, when paddles are in order, you still have a canoe, not a stretched skiff…<G.   That said, if I were buying as a new user (or could only have one) today, I’d at least consider a Grumman (or similar) aluminium – light, manueverable,  you can remove dents with a mallet, and best of all, weldable. Patching ‘glass-type material is a pain, and if you wrap such a boat, it is done. I also went to the site, and Crosslink 3 might be better than ‘glass type materials, but I still think aluminium is the best for a one-boat fleet…<G. HTH? R

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Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz: I have a DS17 square stern that we use with an 8 hp motor for Atlantic salmon fishing on large rivers. It is very stable because it is wide, and quite heavy (118 lb).  We also pole it on fast rivers, and it is a bit of a pig in comparison with narrower canoes, but it’s OK.  It would be fine for paddling or running a trolling motor on slow rivers, ponds and small lakes (<250 acres).  I’d go to a DS15 for this.  It will give the stability without so much weight. JB

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Question:

As a beginner with the fly, and a resident of Scotland, I get confused about the different styles between USA and UK fly fishing. It seems that USA rods are much shorter (8 to 10 feet?) than UK rods (10 to 14 feet?) Is this just a matter of fashion or is there a good reason for it? Plus, I need to know what weight of line / rod to go for- I will be fishing for brown trout of around 0.75 to 1 pound, plus sea trout of up to around 3 pounds, the odd Arctic Charr of up to 2 pounds, plus the (rarer) chance of a salmon- I guess I’m talking about two rods, aren’t I? The fishing will be on small rivers (say 10m wide), streams (3m-5m wide) and hill lochs, big and small, shore and boat. What weight should I go for? * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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As a beginner with the fly, and a resident of Scotland, I get confused about the different styles between USA and UK fly fishing. It seems that USA rods are much shorter (8 to 10 feet?) than UK rods (10 to 14 feet?) Is this just a matter of fashion or is there a good reason for it? Plus, I need to know what weight of line / rod to go for- I will be fishing for brown trout of around 0.75 to 1 pound, plus sea trout of up to around 3 pounds, the odd Arctic Charr of up to 2 pounds, plus the (rarer) chance of a salmon- I guess I’m talking about two rods, aren’t I? The fishing will be on small rivers (say 10m wide), streams (3m-5m wide) and hill lochs, big and small, shore and boat. What weight should I go for?

Hi Paul,  in the USA much shorter rods are used for nearly all fishing. For general fly-fishing in Scotland I would go for an 8 foot 6inch 5 weight, or a nine foot five weight if you fish lochs regularly.  This will handle all the fish you mention, cover nearly all situations adequately, allow reasonable boat fishing, and is not too heavy for delicate fishing.  Very short rods are only advantageous on small over grown streams. If you hook a salmon on this rod you may still be able to land it, but it would be folly to use such a rod deliberately for salmon. For the Salmon you really need another rod. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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As a beginner with the fly, and a resident of Scotland, I get confused about the different styles between USA and UK fly fishing. It seems that USA rods are much shorter (8 to 10 feet?) than UK rods (10 to 14 feet?)

Hi Paul, If you’re fly fishing in Scotland, mostly for trout. I would start with a 9 to 9.5 foot rod, rated for a 6 or 7 weight line. Even if your tastes develop such that you eventually want other rods (believe me, you probably will!), you will always find plenty of uses for such a rod in your armoury. Daiwa makes decent rods to this spec; so does Reddington if you want to spend a bit more and get a worthwhile guarantee. A nine foot 6/7 weight is light enough for river dry fly and wet fly fishing, yet has enough steam to throw a team of flies on a windy loch, or a longshank sea trout lure (streamer). Nine foot gives enough length to control the line and flies properly in a number of techniques, while not being so long that it will tire you. Above ten feet and the leverage starts to be noticeable. Traditionally, Americans have tended to use shorter rods than we do in the British Isles. With modern carbon fibre, there is not much case for rods of under eight feet, unless for fishing under overhanging trees (even then, the case is often overstated or spurious). The advantages of carbon fly rods in the nine to ten foot range are manifest and worthwhile. Americans have retained a sentimental affection for split cane (bamboo) fly rods. Cane rods are more labour intensive to make than modern carbon rods and are generally considerably more expensive. The material is heavier and ’slower’ than modern carbon fibre. A cane rod gets pretty ponderous if it is much OVER eight feet long. Forget cane as a first fly rod. Fly rods of over 12 feet are almost always double handed salmon rods, used for the various Spey casts, etc. They are not suitable for general trout fly fishing. You might be interested to look at the NG: uk.rec.fishing.game Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Question:

Does this mean I need new rings or pistons? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Unless the motor was rebuilt it has high ring pistons. Johnson/evin used these ring from 1977 thru part of 1980 The problem they often self distruct.

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Well many say don’t fix if not broke. I would run the motor myself, if it did snap a ring down the road i would then decide what to do. I would get the motor out for a run before putting much into it. Make sure carbs are clean fuel pump is good water pump is good.  Check oil in lower unit and change. MAKE SURE YOU DON"T BURN 3 YEAR OLD GAS. Out of all the motors I have torn down old gas/oil seems to be the #1 cause of death. You can tell what pistons you have by pulling the bypass covers.

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!!  200 HP Evenrude Rehab, am I an Idiot? I just picked up a 1978 200 hp evenrude outboard.  Am I an idiot? looks very ugly. I think a family of mice has been living in it for about five years. On the positive side the guy packed it up each year with oil ingested through the carbs. The fly wheel turns freely. Any opinions? I’m looking for some cheep power for my 22 ft fishing boat. What are the chances this motor will work out?  Any suggestions for rehabbing procedure? Rick Pickford

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Hi Rick,   You might take a compression test, check the fuel filter, lower unit and so forth but when all is said and done try it out! Hopefully you might be  happily surprised.  Good Luck      Jake

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Unless the motor was rebuilt it has high ring pistons. Johnson/evin used these ring from 1977 thru part of 1980 The problem they often self distruct.

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!!  200 HP Evenrude Rehab, am I an Idiot? I just picked up a 1978 200 hp evenrude outboard.  Am I an idiot? looks very ugly. I think a family of mice has been living in it for about five years. On the positive side the guy packed it up each year with oil ingested through the carbs. The fly wheel turns freely. Any opinions? I’m looking for some cheep power for my 22 ft fishing boat. What are the chances this motor will work out?  Any suggestions for rehabbing procedure? Rick Pickford

I would run the motor until it blows up.  It could last you ten minutes or ten years; you won’t know until you try it.  There are still plenty of motors of that vintage still purring away. Before sinking a bunch of cash in it, check the compression on each cylinder.  I don’t know what the specs are, but I would imagine somewhare between 85 and 115 pounds per hole.  Remember to have the throttle wide open when you do this.  If the compression varies by more than 10 pounds per hole you probably have some internal problems (stuck rings, burned piston, …). Then it is up to you if you should proceed further or just junk it for parts. Assuming that you want to proceed:b Before you crank it up, do this: 1) Take all the carbs off and clean them/rebuild them.  This might be a job for professional if you don’t know what you are doing. If one of the carbs gets junked up, which it probably did after setting for a gazillion years it may run semi-decent, but run lean in a cylinder and hence fry a hole. Change the lower unit lube. Pull the lower unit, clean and grease the drive shaft spline and replace the water pump. Grease all the other fitings; swivel bracket, tilt-tube, throttle and shifter linkage, …. Pull the starter, remove the bendix, clean, regrease. Pull the prop, clean and grease the spline. Check all the electrical connections on the powerhead for corrosion, being loose and just plain where they are supposed to be. In short, go through the typcial pre-season drill.  Any sort of OMC service shop should be able to do this for you for a reaonable amount of cash. Put extra fresh gas in it.  I would run more than 50:1 for the first tank; go with somewhare between double the oil and the recommended amount just to make sure that everything is lubed up properly. Fire it up and see what she does. Good luck.

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Question:

A friend/client, has fished in many parts of the world, without booking through outfitters. Is there any way this can be done in Alaska. He is prepared to hire a guide, at least for a while, possibly the whole trip, and we would appreciate any advice on an alternative to being based at a lodge. Private responses are welcome. Many thanks Del

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A friend/client, has fished in many parts of the world, without booking through outfitters. Is there any way this can be done in Alaska. He is prepared to hire a guide, at least for a while, possibly the whole trip, and we would appreciate any advice on an alternative to being based at a lodge. Private responses are welcome. Many thanks Del

Sure, it’s easy.  Long as you’re not scared of bears and are comfortable with backwoods camping and rafting.  Lot’s of people arrange their own float trips, and there is a thriving business in Alaska around doing that.  You have to be an independent sort, but it is NOT hard.   Try contacting Alaska Bush Carriers in Anchorage, or Fresh Water Adventures in Dillingham.  ABC flies to the Talachulitna, Mulchatna, Chilikadrotna, Deshka, and Lake Creek.  FWA does the Togiak, Goodnews, Kanektok, and others.  Both can help you with rafts, or you can get rafts from Wild Alaska Rivers in Anchorage, and air frieght them to point of need. You can do the Tal for about $500/man, and the Goodnews for about $800/man, not counting airfare.  ABC can rent you a tent and camping gear package as well as the rafts.   Camp Bendeleben, out of Nome, is an interesting trek outside of rainbow trout country, and is on the edge of the known planet.  GREAT silver salmon and char fishing in late august.   I’ve used both of these outfits, and like them.  Using a different outfit to go to the Alagnak this summer, will see how they do.   I recommend that you get the book, ALaska Fly Fishing, by Tony Route, to get you grounded in what kind of tackle you need.  All the gear you need can be gotten in Anchorage if you have a couple of hours between flights.  Try Mountain View Sports, or McAfee’s Fly Shop. Feel free to write if this isn’t enough to get you going.   — Andrew Brunette

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Have you considered Arctic char fishing in Canada’s High Arctic?  The Cdn $ (the loonie) is way down so prices are currently a bargin in US $. There are three options out of Pond Inlet on northern Baffin Island:  1. An Inuit guide/outfitter can drop you off at a fishing spot for a few days and pick you up later.  2. The guide can stay with you and you can try different fishing spots, and enjoy the specatular scenery, mountains, fiords, glaciers, caribou, whales, etc.  3. Or try the lodge in Kuluktoo Bay (most expensive). Up to 6 fishers can share a boat so a small group is most economical. Tununiq Travel and Adventure can put it together for you.  As a tour operator, they can access the lowest published airfares for you out of Montreal or Ottawa. Pond Inlet is well north of the Arctic Circle so you have lots of day light to work with in August.  The ice usually goes out in late July/early August, and after that you can travel by boat. The char are along the shores of the fiords and near the mouths of river until late August. Last year some lucky fishers were throwing back the 15 lbers and keeping the 19 lbers. For more information visit the web site:  www.tununiq.com General descriptions of Fishing adventures are on the Tununiq Adventures page, but check out the other pages for background information (e.g., the Wildlife and Climate pages via the Our Natural World page). Is you want some booking information send and email to Mike Ferguson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend/client, has fished in many parts of the world, without booking through outfitters. Is there any way this can be done in Alaska. He is prepared to hire a guide, at least for a while, possibly the whole trip, and we would appreciate any advice on an alternative to being based at a lodge. Private responses are welcome. Many thanks Del Sure, it’s easy.  Long as you’re not scared of bears and are comfortable with backwoods camping and rafting.  Lot’s of people arrange their own float trips, and there is a thriving business in Alaska around doing that.  You have to be an independent sort, but it is NOT hard. Try contacting Alaska Bush Carriers in Anchorage, or Fresh Water Adventures in Dillingham.  ABC flies to the Talachulitna, Mulchatna, Chilikadrotna, Deshka, and Lake Creek.  FWA does the Togiak, Goodnews, Kanektok, and others.  Both can help you with rafts, or you can get rafts from Wild Alaska Rivers in Anchorage, and air frieght them to point of need. You can do the Tal for about $500/man, and the Goodnews for about $800/man, not counting airfare.  ABC can rent you a tent and camping gear package as well as the rafts. Camp Bendeleben, out of Nome, is an interesting trek outside of rainbow trout country, and is on the edge of the known planet.  GREAT silver salmon and char fishing in late august. I’ve used both of these outfits, and like them.  Using a different outfit to go to the Alagnak this summer, will see how they do. I recommend that you get the book, ALaska Fly Fishing, by Tony Route, to get you grounded in what kind of tackle you need.  All the gear you need can be gotten in Anchorage if you have a couple of hours between flights.  Try Mountain View Sports, or McAfee’s Fly Shop. Feel free to write if this isn’t enough to get you going. — Andrew Brunette

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Question:

Looking for any information on working Bamboo?–

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Looking for any information on working Bamboo?–

If you know any soldiers who have had experience in tropical jungle country they should know quite a lot about the use of bamboo.   Two genders  -  male and female – the male being smaller in diameter and more solid than the female which cam be of large diameter but hollw with relatively thin walls.   Chairs are more often made from Rattan which grows in conditions similst]r to bamboo and has very sharp spikes amongst its leaves.   That is about all I can tell you as I have only used it within the jungle scene using a khukri to cut it and split it to make beds, tables and the like.   The hollow inside the female variety is good for cooking rice or stuffing with explosive. — Charles (Joe) Stahelin Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK

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Looking for any information on working Bamboo?– If you know any soldiers who have had experience in tropical jungle country they should know quite a lot about the use of bamboo.   Two genders  -  male and female – the male being smaller in diameter and more solid than the female which cam be of large diameter but hollw with relatively thin walls.   Chairs are more often made from Rattan which grows in conditions similst]r to bamboo and has very sharp spikes amongst its leaves.   That is about all I can tell you as I have only used it within the jungle scene using a khukri to cut it and split it to make beds, tables and the like.   The hollow inside the female variety is good for cooking rice or stuffing with explosive.

Please do not forget its use as an ersatz mortar tube. Propped up at an angle and lashed to another piece of bamboo which had been lashed horizontally between two trees. To this day I cannot figure out how they managed to get the trajectories so close!

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I have seen bamboo laminates (3-ply) used for flooring recently.  According to the literature I read, it is actually harder than Red Oak, and makes a very interesting floor due to the very fine grain, or what resembles grain, and the nodes seem to be spaced very uniformily.  I have no idea how they remanufacture the finished product, but I am assuming they use the Timber type which grows 60+feet in a season.  I’d be interested to know how they mill it, etc..  Good luck. . .

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Intermediate Technology Publications publishes a book entitled:         Building with Bamboo: A handbook , Second Edition It is 88 pages and costs 9 pounds.  It discusses preparing bamboo for construction use, joints, and common building practices.  Please email me if you want more information re: publisher address, etc. Sorry, I discarded the original poster’s name and address. Douglas Stockman

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I have seen bamboo laminates (3-ply) used for flooring recently. According to the literature I read, it is actually harder than Red Oak, and makes a very interesting floor due to the very fine grain, or what resembles grain, and the nodes seem to be spaced very uniformily.  I have no idea how they remanufacture the finished product, but I am assuming they use the Timber type which grows 60+feet in a season.  I’d be interested to know how they mill it, etc..  Good luck. . . Bamboo’s actually a very fast growing species of grass, grows something like 1-2" per day.  It’s a light weight, excellent material for things like kite frames or construction scaffolding.  I’ve seen pics in Nat. Geo. of Taiwanese construction crews using the stuff for scaffolds reaching 10-12 stories above ground.  It can be worked by splitting, planing, and scraping.

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I’m new to the group…So far I like what I see.. I am looking for 2" diameter or larger bamboo to use for door frame and window frame in a special project. I searched all of my suppliers here in the Southeast. Closest I got was fresh stalks from the Atlanta Zoo. I would like something that was already cured. I would appreciate a suppliers name and number. Thanks in advance. David Holec Exhibit Manager SciTrek – Science and Tecnology Adventure Atlanta GA

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Hello, My dad has some contacts in Japan and could get some Japanes bamboo (larger diameter), but probably wouldn’t be cost effective unless you wanted a large amount. There is a forum about bamboo at www.woodfibre.com.  You might want to pose the same question there and they should be able to help. Don Yasaki HH & NK Co., Ltd.   Kings Mtn., NC Kiln-dried Hardwoods – Sawmill Direct Prices tel (704) 739-6914             fax (704) 739-7336 http://www.unc.edu/~dyasaki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the group…So far I like what I see.. I am looking for 2" diameter or larger bamboo to use for door frame and window frame in a special project. I searched all of my suppliers here in the Southeast. Closest I got was fresh stalks from the Atlanta Zoo. I would like something that was already cured. I would appreciate a suppliers name and number. Thanks in advance. David Holec Exhibit Manager SciTrek – Science and Tecnology Adventure Atlanta GA

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Try these two URL’s: http://www.bamboo.org/abs/ http://www.communety.com/mintec/welcome.html Keith Bohn b2d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m new to the group…So far I like what I see.. I am looking for 2" diameter or larger bamboo to use for door frame and window frame in a special project. I searched all of my suppliers here in the Southeast. Closest I got was fresh stalks from the Atlanta Zoo. I would like something that was already cured. I would appreciate a suppliers name and number. Thanks in advance. David Holec Exhibit Manager SciTrek – Science and Tecnology Adventure Atlanta GA

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

Sure. I make split bamboo flyfishing rods. By the way bamboo is more properly called a plant, not a tree. Darryl Hayashida

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

No plans unfortunately, but look at some books dealing with late 19th century furniture design – in England and America there was a craze (Japonisme) for anything with an Asian aesthetic and faux (and real) bamboo chairs, cabinets, hall trees and such were briefly "all the rage".  Most of this furniture was painted in black, gold, white, or other color combinations… Kevin

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

        Bamboo is a grass not a tree.  It is a plant but that is too general a term.         I do not know of any books of making things with bamboo.  I a sure I have never seen one.         I will through in this piece of advice from experience.  Do NOT try to blast a driveway through a bamboo hedge with explosives.  This is a ver bad move.         Riley

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Sure. I make split bamboo flyfishing rods. By the way bamboo is more properly called a plant, not a tree.

Try a grass.

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

Fly rods!!!  Try FWW #34:68.  Hoagy B. Carmichael (Stardust’s son) wrote a great book on making them. Also, you can build scaffolding with it.  Check out building construction in Indonesia, and other SE Asian countries. mccs

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

Actually, bamboo is a pretty versatile building material. My projects recently have  jinvolved making tables out of bamboo. The legs and table-top base are made using normal lengths of bamboo. The surface of the table-top is made by splitting the bamboo longitudinally to make about inch thick panels which can be nailed to the table-top base. My attempts so far have been a bit rough, but the result is not too bad. Cheers, Brendan. — C.S. Dept., James Cook University,        Phone:  (077) 815085. Townsville, QLD, 4811.  Australia.        There’s only one catch – Catch 22.

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

Sure. I make split bamboo flyfishing rods. By the way bamboo is more properly called a plant, not a tree. Darryl Hayashida

There is almost nothing you can’t make out of bamboo.  It’s a whole technology all by itself.  You should be able to find several good books in your library. Miles Hollister

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Sure. I make split bamboo flyfishing rods. By the way bamboo is more properly called a plant, not a tree.

It is indeed not a tree, but I believe you meant that it is a grass, not that it is a plant (which is of course true.) The fact that it is a grass accounts for the strange chambered structure, as well as its astonishing growth rate. (I read these things in a recent industrial design magazine discussing bamboo’s usefulness, growth worldwide. Sorry, don’t remember the title.) Karl

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain? Find a copy of "In the Ring of the Rise" (Vincent Marinaro). More than you’ll ever want to know about trout vision… Cheers! /dave

Hi Dave I sure agree, V.Marinaro explains things very well. I especially remember him explaining about "one" hackle fiber on a pattern making the difference on catching or not catching fish. As I remember the hackle fiber was misplaced and extended over the eye of the hook or some-such. Good tying &… — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain?

Find a copy of "In the Ring of the Rise" (Vincent Marinaro). More than you’ll ever want to know about trout vision… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

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I am of the belief that if I can see a fish, the actual fish spots ‘n all, not shadows or riseforms, then they can definately see me. The problem then becomes one of threatening behaviour ie moving

I think you’ve got it about right there, Steve. Andrew

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How well can trout REALLY see?

Too damn well! -AR

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How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

After 15+ years of testing how well wild brown trout see…here are some basic conclusions IMHO: 1) they react to objects no farther than 45 feet left, right, and front in ideal visibility conditions 2) they react to objects (birds) as high as 80 ft. overhead in ideal visibility conditions 3) their optimum eyesight is about 8X that of a human’s from 4 ft. to 1 inch. BobE.

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92 degree window of vision….the deeper they are, the bigger this window gets. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

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I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

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Re: How well can trout REALLY see? How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

After 15+ years of testing how well wild brown trout see…here are some basic conclusions IMHO: 1) they react to objects no farther than 45 feet left, right, and front in ideal visibility conditions 2) they react to objects (birds) as high as 80 ft. overhead in ideal visibility conditions 3) their optimum eyesight is about 8X that of a human’s from 4 ft. to 1 inch. BobE. <<<<<<<< How do you define "8X that of a humans?".  What experiments did you actually perform?  Have you published in a peer review journal? William Buchman

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TimW — Ha! Ha! Just stay downstream…no need to worry. Seriously, I’d like to apologise to those who read my previous post about 8x vision…while I truly believe that *wild* browns (at least in my home waters) have this effective vision, the techniques I used to "prove" this to myself are not based on the kind of scientific procedure that I’d be willing to defend in public. I have done many of my own tests over the last 15 years to satisfy myself that the 8x figure is the accurate *effective* vision of a wild brown in certain (if not, most) feeding conditions…the theory has served me well, because using this principle my catch rate dramatically improved when I was actively fishing browns from 1982-1990, especially in spring creek and clear water habitates. It’s a long and complicated story that many flyfishers more knowledgeable than me (especially Dr. Bachman, TimW, Mr. Zink, Al Beatty, and a whole bunch more) could shoot a lot of holes thru. (Even I can shoot holes thru it.) When all is said and done, I don’t know for certain what and how well brown trout see. I just use the 8x as a rule of thumb to gage the quality of all brown trout flies I tie. Simply stated, I believe that if all tyers considered the 8x as a standard measurement to gage the quality of their flies they would catch a lot more trout …but only Seth Green knows this for sure. And, all of us have stories about the biggest trout we ever caught hitting a ragged and torn fly that looked terrible. From now on, I’ll be a little more cautious about spewing me theories. Thanks for your understanding. BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

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I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

No Tim,  Those white letters are called Christmas cards.  All you need do is unstick them from your waders. If you have any further problems I am sure that there is a club nearby who hold beginners evenings and would be willing to help. Cheers Bruce….<g

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How well can trout REALLY see?

Really well, but not nearly as acutely as human’s.  There is evidence that trout see farther into the ultraviolet and infrared at least while fingerlings and again during spawning.  If Ralph Cutter happens to read this, he could probably give you the specifics of the color spectrum studies.  No one can really tell you exactly what they see though, because no one has ever come back from being a fish – at least not with any memory of it.   However, based on the biological make-up of their eyes  we have some good guesses.   On the human eye, the fovea (sp?)  is a small indentation "" on the back of the retina that is covered with cone cells (color receptors).  They are in a very high concentration in this spot with very few rod cells (black and white or low-light receptors) in evidence.  The lens of the human eye focuses light on this fovea and that’s what gives us the visual acuity (sharp & clear vision) we enjoy – at least for a while.  In low light the rod cells expand allowing us to see in black & white.  Because there are few rod cells in the fovea,  you will often see an object more clearly in low light if you look slightly off to the side of it.  This puts more light on the surrounding rod cells and allows you to see the target better even if it is with your peripheral vision. Trout’s eyes have both rod cells and cone cells on the retina of their eye.  During normal light conditions the cone cells are expanded – during low light, the cone cells recede and the rod cells expand allowing them to see by starlight.  The retina does not however have a fovea, nor does the lens of the eye focus the light on any one small spot on the retina.  Best guess is that although trout can see color all around and can judge distances well within a 30 degree cone in front of them (binocular vision) everything is still blurry even from 2" away.  Acuity is somewhat lacking. This is perhaps one of the reasons why they take a fly that has an otherwise obvious hook hanging from it.  Also helps explain why impressionist or imitative flies usually work much better than "realistic flies" which may match the natural perfectly.                                  Hope this helps,                                             Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water.  I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt.  And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast.  Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish).  I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure.  I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

And don’t forget they can see behind underwater objects like rocks and tree branches by using the reflective mirror of the surface film outside the ‘window’, where they see through the surface. Avoid heavy footfalls on the river bank or when wading as their lateral line vibration sense is acute. I think that may be how seatrout (anadromous browns) can detect my size 14 black pennel on a pitch black night…. Pete Marrow   work:  http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/   play:  http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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There have been a number of recent posts presuming to know how well trout see.  My guess is that they are all WRONG!  Who can tell us about *experiments* that increase the liklihood of any of these assertions to be true. There are optical effects produced by a small flies that may attract trout even if they cannot see the fly clearly.  Certainly, even small dry flies dimple the surface of water causing light to refract in strange ways and cast fairly large shadows.  Glints off of peacock and various reflective materials may also attract attention.  A selective fish does not have to see the fly clearly.  It can wait until it gets close before making an eat or flee response. I make no assertions about how trout see or process information. William Buchman

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Well put – no one really knows (and hence the vendors can sell us anything…). However, I DO know that a golf ball has eyes and a brain.  Having tried to play golf I do know that balls that I find in the woods while looking for my ball soon will return there.  It would seem that these "wild" balls differ in their genetic makeup from the store-bought put-n-putt cousins… but I digress….. — Tim Wohlford, DO NOT SEND JUNK E-MAIL: "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine.  By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.  By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There have been a number of recent posts presuming to know how well trout see.  My guess is that they are all WRONG!  Who can tell us about *experiments* that increase the liklihood of any of these assertions to be true. There are optical effects produced by a small flies that may attract trout even if they cannot see the fly clearly.  Certainly, even small dry flies dimple the surface of water causing light to refract in strange ways and cast fairly large shadows.  Glints off of peacock and various reflective materials may also attract attention.  A selective fish does not have to see the fly clearly.  It can wait until it gets close before making an eat or flee response. I make no assertions about how trout see or process information. William Buchman

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain?

Though clothing is definetely a big consideration, I wouldn’t worry too much. You see, apparently even today’s most advanced trout can’t see well enough to detect the bend, point and barb of a hook. It’s amazing how these cunning, fabled creatures we pursue -which can supposedly detect the most microscopic details in color and size of the insects they are feeding on- somehow, time and time again, fail to notice the large, metallic-brown, bent, nasty-looking organ that is protruding from the crotch of every artificial fly that has ever been created. Fly fishing or lock-picking… Spinolio

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: I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense : vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how : well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there : are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and : not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding : terrain? : : Thanks in advance. Yes, no and maybe All the following occurred in bright sunny conditions about mid-day: Anecodote 1: at least 40 feet downstream of a fish tailing in 12" water … waved a fly away from my face, bow wave … one annoyed fish. Anecdote 2: next to, standing, a fish picking tasty morsels off a submerged log for 5 minutes.  Approached from downstream *verrrry* slowly with the sun behind and casting shadows away from the fish, probably could have tailed it if I’d been that way inclined, moved my rod arm something caught his eye … gone. Anecdote 3: fish hard against a bank in a riffly run, I’m within a rod length, a birds shadow made it change position then return after a minute or so.  Watching it feed, yup taking nymphs, scratched my nose … Gone. All three have a common thread, sudden or unexpected movement.   I am of the belief that if I can see a fish, the actual fish spots ‘n all, not shadows or riseforms, then they can definately see me. The problem then becomes one of threatening behaviour ie moving Steve Still in Melbourne, Australia.

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain? Thanks in advance.

Response:

 Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another?

G & A, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water.  I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt.  And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast.  Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish).  I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure.  I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

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     Trout have excellent vision, especially character recognition.  I’ve found that they usually read the fishing regulations before the season opens, and on opening day take an extended vacation to parts unknown. el coyotero was here

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? G & A, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water.  I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt.  And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast.  Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish).  I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure.  I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

They can see better in smooth water vs. rippled water so you are more likely to spook trout in pools. Their eyes are placed on the sides of their heads so they have a wider angle of vision than we do. They can pick out a size #28 nymph without any problems. My best guess is that they see movement much better than we do. Their natural enemies (birds etc.) strike from above and food is also often found on the surface so they’re tuned into motion from above. Also they hear very well with a band of "ears" along their sides and can easily hear you stomping around on the banks long before they can see you in some cases. Good thing their brain is only the size of a pea. <G Don Burns

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Question:

writes: Hi Jerome,  Try ‘The Anglers Journal’ , Box 1427, Livingston, MT, 59047. A.J.Thramer

I second that. I just received a complimentary copy and am favorably impressed. Not glossy. Published by Bob Auger (Dupuy’s). I was surprised to see an article by our roff/rofft friend and frequent poster Al Beatty. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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The mailing address is  P.O. Box 40429, San Francisco, CA  94105. You can pick one up at most SF fly shops, though they often sell out.

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I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great

-SNIP- Hi Jerome, You can get a subscription to the California Fly Fisher which is a large format magazine (about the size of Computer Currents with glossy cover and newsprint interior)  about fishing in California.  Lots of good info. It’s published by Rich Anderson, but I don’t have his address handy.  It’s a monthly publication and you can pick up a copy at the Orvis store in SF or any of the fly shops in town.  Subscrciption information is always found inside.                          Good Fishing,                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Hi Jerome,   Try ‘The Anglers Journal’ , Box 1427, Livingston, MT, 59047. A.J.Thramer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fly fishing the west or Western flyfishing,  used to be just Flyfishing. I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.   Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/

Also "California Fly Fisher" Don Burns

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Fly fishing the west or Western flyfishing,  used to be just Flyfishing. I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.  

Hi Jerome,    Pick up a copy of California Flyfisher at your local flyshop or call (415) 284-0313 and order one. You’ll probably subscribe. Not a very wizzy rag but from time to time flyfishing needs a bit more unwizzyness. -Ralph —

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Fly fishing the west or Western flyfishing,  used to be just Flyfishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.   Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states. Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/That’s odd.  I,m about as far east in the US as you can get, and think

all the major mags spend too much time on western rivers!! Maybe they do have amiddle ground perspective if we both think they are slanted.   I subscribe to all the majors, but my favorite (and most useful) National Mag is Fly Fisherman, but it maybe because they have an eastern slant, but I have issues where the only eastern reference is the postmark!  There are several western mags, and I’m sure one of the left coast regulars can provide you with the details. jg

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I’m interest in subscribing to a flyfishing magazine and wanted suggestions on which one to order.  I am interested in a magazine that is geared more toward the western United States.  If there is one for California since I’m in San Francisco, it would be great.  I had a subscription to FlyRod & Reel, but it seems like a waste of money since I don’t think I will be fishing outside of the state in the near future and they usually only had one article on the western states with the rest of the articles on the eastern states.   Thanks, — Jerome Fong 501 East Middlefield Road             voice: 415-528-2847 Mountain View, CA 94043               fax:   415-528-4159 http://home.netscape.com/

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Question:

Hi Sandy, I have a bunch of EVA ZOTE closed cell foam I bought from a dealer at the Fly Tackle Dealer Show a couple of years ago. I don’t avertize it in my catalog but I’ve got it if you need some. Give me a holler at 585-0745. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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I have found some good foam for bugs by searching the boxes we regularly receive here at work.  Alot of the computer companies use good quality closed cell foam for shipping.  Soft and floats well. I’ve accumulated more than I’ll use in a very long time. It’s kind of like finding road kill foam. Seek and ye shall find. You can also find adhesivfoam in Hardware Stores (used to stop drafts)-

Fishfinder

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I want some advice on different glues to use on foam body bugs.  I have tried head cement and it seems to work somewhat, but doesn’t bond the hook to the foam.

The strongest glue for anything will always be epoxy. Model airplane shops sell *thin* 5 minute epoxy that works well for fly tying. 20-minute epoxy will be more flexible and stronger yet, however. Super glue is handy, also sold at model airplane shops, along with ‘instant’ hardening catalyst. I make a lot of foam flies. I use cheap, open-cell polyurethane foam for soft-bodied nymphs and streamers, and EVA (ethyl-vinyl-acetate) closed-cell foam for grass hopper bodies, etc. Big, soft foam streamers are interesting because fish don’t spit them out. They bite down and say ‘yes, this is what I thought.’ Where do you get closed-cell EVA foam? I dunno, for sure. John Betts used to sell under an ‘Evazote’ trade name, but he never had colors. I get it from a wholesaler. But most folks can’t do that. I don’t use foam strips, I cut out a hopper body, wrap it lightly with thread to segment it, and then tie it on *loosely* with thread, and then use super glue. One last note: Not all closed-cell foam is worth anything. Some is so dense it hardly floats. You need to find *lightweight* foam to make unsinkable dry flies. Most fly shops sell strands of ’round-in-cross-section’ closed-cell foam (made by ??) that looks really handy. But the damn stuff is so heavy it’s more like rubber, and hardly floats.

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Question:

Are you *sure* this was about fishing!!! Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Yup did it myself as a boy, ok only on small streams where you c can reach underneath the bank, slowly move your fingers along untiil you make contact, gently tickle the trout away from the bank and then flip it out of the water. I prefer fly fishing nowardays Regads

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I have tickled trout..It works. also works with goldfish (at least the ones in my pond) regards Kyfho2

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

Not only can you tickle the bellies of trout, *that* is how you fish with hands only. As a boy, all my relatives would rendezvous on my         grandfather’s ranch during the haying season each August. It was known as "The Box Bar Ranch," and it stretched along Spring Creek, twelve miles outside of Saratoga, Wyoming. The day we began work in the fields along Spring Creek, during our break for lunch my uncles would place a couple of us in the water upstream, and a couple downstream.  The rest of us would then walk into the middle of the stream.  The trout would quickly retreat to the sides where the stream had cut deeply underneath the sod. Slowly, we would approach the banks, submerging our hands beneath the overhanging sod and placing them under the trout.  We could then gently rub the bellies of the fish. When we felt sure of our hand placement, SNAP!, with a quick flick of the wrist the trout would be airborne, heading for a soft landing in the mowed hay lying along the banks of the stream.   *Catch and eat* was the order of the day on the Box Bar Ranch, along Spring Creek, Saratoga, Wyoming, in the early sixties. Ed Hunsaker Mgr., Henry’s Fork Lodge 1994, 1995 —

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Not a good idea trying the above where mink are endemic !!! Muskrats can also cause pucker.  This happened to a friend back in

high school.  I’d never seen the whites of anyone’s eyes get so large.

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We used to do this as kids in the rivers in the Scottish/ English Borders: 1.  stand in a river in wellies but up to your knees in freezing water.  (it’s best to wear shorts so you don’t have to explain to geriatric parents.  2.  Fell gently under big stones or banks ’til you find a fish.  3.  VERY gently tickle it’s tummy until you can grab it.   THATS the theory!  Usually, you miss the grab, fall in and freeze for hours going home when (final indignity) you get a row.  Good fun though!! David Malone knows how. Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent True. Easy to do if you know of an overhanging bank on a stream where you can reach under *SLOWLY* and very gently stroke the fish with your fingers and very slowly move your hand till you think you have the fishes centre of gravity in your palm and SCOOP the fish out. You cannot grab hold of it.

Reminds of the stories my dad told me ("Tall Tales of Oklahoma") about guys who’d haul big spawning catfish out of the mud.   A big flathead or blue cat would get the best of them sometimes (or so the stories go) and they’d never be heard from again…

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

True, I’ve done it often years ago here in holland… (it’s here an illegal way of fishing)

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There was an english TV-series as well, where the method was shown. Seemed to work fine I don’t remember the original name of the series, but it was called in Finland ‘See you later, honey’ BR, Eki

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

It’s perfectly true, but I’ve been told it only works on male trout. And how do you determine if it is a male? By giving it a couple of test tickles.

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Suggested reading on the subject is the Curtis Creek Manifesto by Sheridan Anderson.  He spends an illustrated page on the subject. Jim, Nevada Jim’s Outdoor Sports, Elko, Nevada

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I like the "test tickles" joke. Made me laugh. But no-one seems to be taking this seriously. Tickling trout does work. Although it’s not compatible with catch-and-release. You tickle trout (usually in small mountain streams) when you are hungry. Trout usually hide underneath something when they get scared. A hollow space underneath a rock can harbor a half a dozen tightly packed fish. All squashed together. Reach in there with your hand and tickle one along its side and underbelly, just like you were another fish jamming youreself in there–just long enough to figure out where the head and gills are. Then pinch real hard right at the back of the gills, and then head for the campfire. —  Sandy Pittendrigh          –O0       (406) 585-6600-5276

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The reason this works is that the trout thinks you are is making sexual advances. Ernie Harrison

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I made a trout laugh once. I threatened to catch it!

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True – works with ‘ladies’ too Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

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Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books.

… and it can still be practiced today.  While studying Arctic grayling in a river in northern Alaska, a fisheries biologist whom I know saw an unusual sight – a lake trout, which had evidently swum up into the river from a large lake downstream.  The fish was holding tight against the bank, and in order to confirm that it was indeed a lake trout, the biologist "tickled" it and lifted it out of the water. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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 seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

True. Easy to do if you know of an overhanging bank on a stream where you can reach under *SLOWLY* and very gently stroke the fish with your fingers and very slowly move your hand till you think you have the fishes centre of gravity in your palm and SCOOP the fish out. You cannot grab hold of it. Not a good idea trying the above where mink are endemic !!! Pete Marrow work: http://ui.nmh.ac.uk/gsrg.html play: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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True. Easy to do if you know of an overhanging bank on a stream where you can reach under *SLOWLY* and very gently stroke the fish with your fingers and very

The other benefit of this technique is that the fish will magically grow larger as this is performmed Tim Walker

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth?

Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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The book that comes to mind is "How Green Was My Valley" about a coal mining family in wales (also made into an academy award winning movie, but I don’t think the movie talks about tickling trout).   Matt Carey

: Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My : buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" : stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up : on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? : Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books. : — : |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | : |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth?

 Getting close enough to New Zealand Brown trout to tickle their bellies.. I think you want to post this on R.O.F.F. Fantasies…Tickle thier bellies…I think your friend is doing more than tickling your belly..

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books.

It’s usually done where ther are undercut banks and the trout may be reached by shore.  It can be described much better in some survival books such as, "The S.A.S. Survival Handbook". Steve —

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth?

Brent, this brings back some old memories. Yes, ‘tickling trout’ is possible and something I’ve done many times as a lad in England. Most of the good trout waters were posted/private and we needed a way to catch fish without a rod. If we didn’t have a pole, we couldn’t possibly be poaching.   We would stand motionless in the water (I remember one favourite place was the river Mole just down from Box Hill) until the trout returned to their feeding stations. People that don’t move didn’t bother them at all. Then we would stretch our hands out about a foot or so (slowly) under a trout and ‘flutter’ our fingers while gradually lifting them and getting closer to the trout’s belly. The action appeared to lull them to sleep and we’d eventually end up with our hands actually touching the fish. Then we just lifted them out of the water and into the bag. Seems to work with most species of trout although ours were mostly speckles. Just for the record – I tried this with pike and it didn’t have the same effect although I did manage to catch pike with my bare hands. My fishing techniques have become somewhat more sophisticated since. David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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