Question:

Good post snipped. I’m definitely no streamer expert but many writers have commented that the eyes on a streamer are a trigger for the fish. Gary LaFontaine even ties a streamer with the eyes at the rear of the fly (near the hook bend) to help eliminate all the missed strikes. Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good post snipped. I’m definitely no streamer expert but many writers have commented that the eyes on a streamer are a trigger for the fish. Gary LaFontaine even ties a streamer with the eyes at the rear of the fly (near the hook bend) to help eliminate all the missed strikes. Willi

That’s the reason for the Sedge Hook Perch.  Instead of moving the eyes back, I’m moving the hook point forward. Peter

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The first Sedge Hook Perch is on ABPF.  Not a great first effort and I wasn’t able to get any olive cafltail – used bucktail instead so the profile is not what I hoped, but you can get the idea.  Vertical bars are done with black magic marker. Peter

Response:

<< There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. <<  Tom Littleton This is one of the virtues of the Lefty’s Deceiver and Kreh and Clouser’s Half & Half.  Lefty Kreh also writes that big fish are head hunters. GKT

Response:

<< There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. <<  Tom Littleton This is one of the virtues of the Lefty’s Deceiver and Kreh and Clouser’s Half & Half.  Lefty Kreh also writes that big fish are head hunters. GKT

Saltwater patterns have used this approach for years as the fish are known headhunters, but apart from clousers, there aren’t many freshwater versions.  Though I didn’t start out the Sedge Hook Perch with a particular saltwater fly in mind, it certainly did end up resembling one.   Since I can’t make much use of it till next year, if anybody would like to try a couple, email me your snail mail and I’ll send them off. In return, you have to post your results. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter, That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. I think the streamer tied on a short shanked hook has a better "look" and it probably would have better action. What do you use for eyes? Willi

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: That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would : post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF… JonCook.

Here ya go Jon. http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Peter has graciously allowed for this information to be posted at ez. Thanks Peter…. –Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Peter, That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. I think the streamer tied on a short shanked hook has a better "look" and it probably would have better action. What do you use for eyes? Willi

They’re on a peel and stick sheet.  I cover them with flex cement afterward or they’d just drop off. Peter

Response:

: That is a good looking fly you posted on ABPF. I wish more people would : post flies on ABPF. Reading a description of a fly just doesn’t cut it. Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF…

So ask your university sysop to add it. ‘Tain’t no big thang… /daytripper

Response:

Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF… So ask your university sysop to add it. ‘Tain’t no big thang…

Spoken like a man who’s never been a university sysop. — Ken Fortenberry- never got ABPF

Response:

Many, maybe even most, of us don’t get ABPF… So ask your university sysop to add it. ‘Tain’t no big thang… Spoken like a man who’s never been a university sysop.

Well, true, I was never a sysop in college, and my college days preceded Usenet anyway (360/20 programmer "back in the days" when real computers ran on air)… But the "no big thang" was referring to the *asking*. As we both know the actual *doing* is trivial…even for a university sysop. /daytripper (Even those that call central Illinois "Home" ;^)

Response:

Well, true, I was never a sysop in college, and my college days preceded Usenet anyway (360/20 programmer "back in the days" when real computers ran on air)…

Ah yes, those were the days. We had one of the few 360/44’s, kind of a RISC precursor I suppose, without the complete instruction set so math operations were faster. We had a 1620 prior to that and a ‘hands on’ 1130 w/8K RAM<g. — Charlie…

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html

Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

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http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots?

"long"? I use an Oly C2020Z which has built-in macro capability. However, I usually top the lens off with a macro multiplier (I have a 2X and a 4X) to really fill the frame and make the most of the CCD (rather than crop down the shot and lose pixels). I think I can speak for "Vern" and Paul G wrt your questions: they both shoot using C2020Z’s , but I’m pretty sure they haven’t bought the macro multipliers yet. My matched brace of Nikkormats, an F5, and a Minolta (all SLRs) are all feeling very lonely and neglected these days… /daytripper ("Totally Digital"  ;^)

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

I just stick ‘em in my scanner, squish the buggers then crop ‘em. Looks like hell but people know they’re flies. Peter the always helpful

Response:

Olympus 2020, does macros just fine without any add on’s Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

Response:

http://www.ezflyfish.com/perstreamfly.html Do most of you who post pics of flies use digital cameras?  If so, do they have built-in macros or did you have to do something else to get close-up shots? Mu

Mu, while I haven’t taken any photos of flies yet, I have taken a ton of pics of small desert flowers.   Some of them will fit on a dime with a lot  room left over.  The decision to use macro is a personal one depending on how you want the subject to look.  I can get the lens to within about 1/4 inch without macro.  I advise a tripod for macro and telephoto.   Camera?  Sony Mavica FD-91.  Macro ability plus a bunch more including interchangable lenses and filters. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyfd91/  Lemme know and I can send some examples. — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

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My matched brace of Nikkormats,

        tripper:  what flavor nikkormat do you have?  are you interested in getting shut of one of them? wayno the digital anti-christ

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The mystery has finally been solved – and on the last day of the season.  Anyway  . .

Great report snipped for brevity. Peter, Very interesting info. Some observations from fishing for Lake Trout and Landlocks in a stillwater that mesh with your obsrvations: About thirty five years ago, I spent some time fishing for Lakers and Landlocks in the local reservoir. The hot method at the time was still or drift fishing with large shiners for bait. the predominant forage fish were Smelt and Yellow Perch. I had a number of hits, but very few hookups the first few times out, and often, when I got a hit, the bait would still be on the hook, dazed but alive. I mentioned this to a local guy who had been catching a lot of fish, and he told me it was very important not to set the hook at the strike, but to wait until the fish began to run with the bait. He said that Lakers and Landlocks often made a pass  and struck a baitfish, and then turned and picked it up. Once I started following his advice I began taking Lakers in the four to six pound range, and Landlocks in the two to four pound range regularly. Seems to be quite similar to your experience with the Browns. Funny thing is that I have also caught Lakers and Landlocks using streamers in the river that drains the reservoir, (they escape over the spillway in high water), and they don’t exhibit the same behavior there. They just grab the streamer and turn. Go figure.{:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

The mystery has finally been solved – and on the last day of the season.  Anyway  . . Last week I post up some stuff about streamer fishing for browns on the Grand and having something like 50 hits and only landing about half-a-dozen.  I had been using a green ghost which is a bit perch-like and perch have been getting washed through the dam into the river during high water periods.  So I tied up two perch flies, one based on a 1/0 Rangley hook (I posted the recipe here and on ROFFT and the image on ABPF), the other on a 4X #6 Diiachi.  The 1/0 used float foam to give it some buoyancy while the other had a small strip of lead added. To try and bring some order to the process, I decided to track all happenings over one hour starting at 2:30 pm.  I had decided to use the #6 for half an hour and then the 1/0 but events overtook that plan. At the access point, a small island divides the channel creating a smallish pool and seam on the south side and a chute emptying into a larger, slower pool on the north side.  Everyone tromps through the southside pool so I never expect much there; one fish at best.  Right at the water’s edge, I begin fishing the #6, casting directly across current and stripping back in a "U".  Within ten minutes I have six hits and three landed – but here’s where the interesting shit happens. One fish has taken the #6 perch directly from the rear and hooked up mid lower jaw.  The other two were foul hooked in the face above the upper jaw.  The direction of the hookup indicates that they turned on the fly and hit it broadside while facing downstream.  They were hooked up on the far side of their face, indicating that they had aimed for the head of the fly.  It all made sense.  Perch are a spiny rayed fish so trout must have ingrained behaviour to aim for the head so that they can swallow head first and smooth down the dorsal spines. This explains why I had so many misses and lost fish last week. Here’s all the poop: Recorded results for one hour. Presentation was directly across stream with a "U" retrieve and a 3" to 4" strip.  (a slower presentation than last week – 12" strip) Total casts – 100 to 120 Total hits – 21 Total hooked – 12 Total landed – 9 Total lost -3 Total foul hooked – 5 (4 in the face and 1 behind the head) Average size of fish – 9" Results by fly:         # 6  Perch – 6 hits, 3 hooked, 3 landed, 2 foul hooked         1/0 Perch – 5 hits, 0 hooked, 0 landed, 0 foul hooked         #6 g. ghost – 10 hits, 9 hooked, 6 landed, 3 foul hooked In deeper, faster water, 2 browns took the fly broadside while facing downstream and one took from the rear.  In shallower, slower water 5 of the 6 browns landed took the fly broadside facing upstream (the 6th faced down.)   After I brought my third fish to hand, I dropped it and grabbed the tippet.  The knot parted and away swam my only #6 perch.  I tied on the 1/0 and tried my luck in the slower northside pool but 5 hits only.  Crossing back to the south side of the island, I began working the tailout down about 200 yards to the end of Cedar Run with what was left of my Green Ghost.  After the end of the hour, I picked up one more small one and then hooked and landed a nice 15" brown. Unfortunately, it was also fouled; this time under the jaw.  After the 15" fish, I changed presentation to a classsic quartering downstream approach and did not get a single hit.   After changing back, I landed another small one.  After a meal break, I picked up one 16" brown on a joe’s smelt.  Once I got back on the water I tried a black nosed dace (one of Charlie’s) and a joe’s smelt to see if the browns would hit them differently.  These being representations of soft rayed fish and having obvious strike zones with their red tails, I was curious if they performed better,  Total was 6 hits, 4 hookups, 1 landed (the 16" one.)  Not really enough action to draw any conclusions. Results on first misses: – Mindful of Mike’s advice, I tried to remember to drop in some slack after a miss.  I had no results on the 1/0 despite one solid hit from a larger fish.  On the green ghost, I had one persistant small guy whack it three times in succession without a hookup and missed another small one on the second hit.  The 16" was classic.  He hit and missed, I dropped the smelt.  he did nothing, then I made one strip and he nailed it directly from the rear.  I hooked him up mid lower jaw. There’s no doubt in my mind that these browns were headhunting the perch flies.  From now on, I’ll be tying my perch flies on short shanked, heavy wire hooks (like a Mustad 3906B) or on sedge hooks that have a small, straight shank.  Too bad I won’t get to try them on the browns to the end of April 2001.  I’ll tie some up tomorrow afternoon and post a binary on ABPF. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

addendum: Some conclusion now that I’ve had some more time to digest the results and read other peoples’ comments. The method of attack for a brown is variable and they choose their method based on prey species and relative size (them vs. the prey.) and other variables like temperature, water clarity, etc. Some conculsions: When I fish my mini streamers, I have a 40% to 50% hookup rate of which I probably land 4 out of 5.  Foul hookups are very rare and the majority of hookups are mid lower jaw with a few mid upper jaw. Corner of jaw hookups are rare.  This indicates that the browns are tail chasing the streamer and taking it on the first hit.  The missed strikes can be attributed to short takes on the fast moving, tiny streamer. A few weeks back, I foul hooked another 15" brown under the jaw when using a #4 streamer.  The pattern seems to be – small fish take from below, probably looking for a gill shot, whil the larger fish seem to take from slightly above, probably turning into the prey at the head. Not all fish are looking for a disabling shot, in the Attack-Maime-Return mode as some seem to have hookups that appear to come from an attempt to seize the prey.  If they are in the mood to strike and drop, then it’s important to have a spongy, neutral buoyant fly with a small hook to avoid jaw to steel contact.  The Sedge Hook Perch should fit this bill.  The white calftail belly and red gill slash will form a target for the smaller fish. The large head and eyes work for the larger ones.  Since the sedge hook is small and light, and the bulk of the fly is made up of semi-buoyant hair, it should react well when tension is released after a strike.   Liberal use of flex cement over the front of the fly will also aid buoyancy and provide a spongy feel to the attacking fish.  Once released, the fly should drift more naturally than a weighted or big hook fly.  As most of the profile of the fly is simply hair, then it should also move more naturally than a stiff, long shanked fly. Since my season is now closed, maybe somebody else could give this fly a shot. (off to buy some vino for SWMBO and some olive calftail so I can complete the prototype.) Peter Peter

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What a great discussion….and some people wonder why we come here! This whole streamer thing has been puzzling me for years. Getting hits versus hookups,etc. There have been some great observations in this discussion. My feeble brain is spinning. perhaps it would be worthwhile tying up some "reversed" streamers, That is to say, streamers with the heads at the bend of the hook. How would such a streamer be fished such that the drift would look right? Angle of pull from rod would seem to give it a tailward oriented motion. There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. I may be trying a few ideas out as we head into the fall season here in PA and post if any intelligent thought or observation arise. Thanks again for the discussion!                            Tom Littleton

Tom Here’s the perch fly I’m planning for next year.  It can be done in any colours for any bait fish – I bet a baby brown would be perfect for PA. Sedge Hook Perch Hook – Kamasan # 8 Sedge or similar Thread – 3/0 Olive Uni-thread Tinsel – gold Flashaboo Belly – white calftail Throat – red Uni-floss Underwing – chartreuse bucktail Wing – Olive calftail Overwing – three strands of thick peacock herl Eyes – stick-on black on gold Tying instructions: All of the material will be tied on the short, straight section of the sedge hook shank.  Tie on a bed of thread.  Do not worry about building up too much bulk as we want a big head.  Tie in three strands of flashaboo doubled and trimmed to length.  Wrap thread over flashaboo to the end of the shank.  Invert hook and tie in the white calftail as a belly.  I’m using calftail instead of bucktail as it’s bulkier and stiffer, producing the deep perch profile.  Then wrap in the red floss at the rear of the shank over the calftail to a width of about 1/8".  This represents a gill flare on a frightened fish.  Then in turn, wrap in the bucktail close to the eye and the length of the shank, followed by the olive calftail then the herl.  Build up the head with thread the full length of the shank and stick on the eyes. Leave about 1/16" of the red floss showing at the back.  Then coat liberally with head cement at least to 1/8" beyond the head. Later on today when I get finished of the chores, (SWMBO is a slave driver)  I’ll tie up one and post it to ABPF. Peter

Response:

What a great discussion….and some people wonder why we come here! This whole streamer thing has been puzzling me for years. Getting hits versus hookups,etc. There have been some great observations in this discussion. My feeble brain is spinning. perhaps it would be worthwhile tying up some "reversed" streamers, That is to say, streamers with the heads at the bend of the hook.

How would such a streamer be fished such that the drift would look right? Angle of pull from rod would seem to give it a tailward oriented motion. There are some designs that put the hook much closer to the head of the streamer. Gartside does it with his marabou soft hackles, others as well use shorter shank hooks with streamer materials extending far past bend. This could be done, I suppose, as long as the materials don’t foul around the gape of hook. I may be trying a few ideas out as we head into the fall season here in PA and post if any intelligent thought or observation arise. Thanks again for the discussion!                             Tom Littleton

Response:

Great report. Thanks for the info.  Seems it could be a combination of things. Trout taking spiny rayed fish head first, and the "attack maim and wait, and then hit again" behaviour we already discussed. Bullheads are also "spiny rayed", and I already explained the behaviour of trout, in my experience,  in this case.   I assume that my original idea was correct, and the trout attack the fish to damage it, and then come back to take the fish head first,  Seems very reasonable. Just a daft idea, but perhaps it would be worthwhile tying up some "reversed" streamers, That is to say, streamers with the heads at the bend of the hook. This practice is common with lightweight pirks, they are fished "the wrong way round", the fish take on the drop, as the pirk is apparently diving head first for the bottom. I have no idea how this might sensibly be realised, but I will have a think about it. My running water season is finished for this year, so I will not have a chance to try any of this for a while, But very interesting, and food for thought. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Ever had one of those days that just keeps getting better and better?  I came home from work today and had a slip to go pick up a package at the post office.  I stayed up tying flies and then someone knocked on the door.  It was the post man with another package from Wayno with raffle items.  Cool shirt and a very nice picture.  So, I go back to tying flies and at 11 am go to the post office and pick up a box from my aunt and uncle.   I get home and there is a fedex guy walking ahead of me.  He stops at the mail boxes after saying hello and I go on to my apartment.  A few moments later there is a knock on the door.  Open the door and Mr FedEx is there.  We both kinda laughed since he could have just given me the envelope outside.  I come back inside and open the box from aunt and uncle and it is one of those talking bass things.  After reading about them here I was a little skeptical so I opened the envelope (again from Wayno). Inside the envelope were a bunch of pictures of the Carolina clave.  I went through these a couple of times and had fun reading the notes on the back of them.  Then I fired ol’ Billy Bass up and got a chuckle from that.  I went through the pictures from Wayno again and think I got more chuckles from those however. So around 12:30 I decide I better get some sleep.  I have to get up at 4:30 to go to work so I lay down and almost as soon as I start falling asleep the phone rings.  I debated on answering it, but given the short time to the clave I decided I better because it might be a clavester in need of assistance.  I answer the phone and it was Bob Card whom you might remember from here a while back.  He and I have been emailing each other for a while because he was supposed to come out here on a business trip.  Didn’t hear from him for about a month so I emailed him again about a week and a half ago. Well, turns out that Bob is going to be in Bozeman this coming up weekend.  He and a friend will be arriving just in time for the clave and will be able to show up friday when they are done and then some on saturday before leaving from Butte Saturday at 6 pm.  Talk about luck!   Bob and I chatted for a bit, but now I am afraid to go to sleep because something else might happen.  I should run out and buy a lotto ticket or something.  The way today is going I will be tired, but I sure as hell am enjoying today anyway!  I even got another dozen tied for my fly box Oh, and I almost forgot to mention the neat flies that somebody sent me.  Got those when I was home for lunch last night.  I shall guard their name as closely as I guard the names of my favorite fishing spots unless they wish to name themselves and start tying up dozens more for the people who will no doubt want a set too <g   Well, maybe I should try and get some sleep. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

 Oh, Clavemeister.    You don’t have to guard the name.  They are Frank’s Fightin’ Craws tied in a size ten and a tan color to match Montana crawdads.  With my compliments, I hope they work.                   Frank Reid

You better start tying now.  I imagine you will be receiving orders *very* soon <g  Just make sure to caution everyone that these things do bite.  Took me an hour once I unleashed them to gather them back up and contain them again. Thanks again Frank.  I can’t get over how cool these things are. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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Oh, and I almost forgot to mention the neat flies that somebody sent me.  Got those when I was home for lunch last night.  I shall guard their name as closely as I guard the names of my favorite fishing spots unless they wish to name themselves and start tying up dozens more for the people who will no doubt want a set too <g

   Oh, Clavemeister.     You don’t have to guard the name.  They are Frank’s Fightin’ Craws tied in a size ten and a tan color to match Montana crawdads.  With my compliments, I hope they work.                    Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Question:

Tell me how well they do in 15 or 20 years. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . All the rod makers that state their guarantee fulfill their guarantees. I have broken Orvis  and Sage rods and never had a bit of trouble.None of the rod companies could get away with refusal on their guarantee–they would be lepers at the party!

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scroll back and look at the previous mulitude of posts about this subject.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

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are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

You’re wrong. OK OK, you’re right too! OC Garza

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Thank the "free replacement" lifetime guarantee and all those who break rods simply to get a new one! Prediction: this policy will stop in the next years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

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Thank the "free replacement" lifetime guarantee and all those who break rods simply to get a new one!

Never thought of that. Hmmmm…..

Response:

Thank the "free replacement" lifetime guarantee and all those who break rods

simply to get a new one! Prediction: this policy will stop in the next years. than the equivalent Sage DS series rod. As far as I can tell, G Loomis doesn’t yet (and probably never will) offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Gary Loomis must be laughing all the way to the bank – he charges more for the same rod than other manufacturers do, then he charges you more when it breaks and you want a replacement. My point is, you say that prices are so expensive because of the warranty on some rods, why are Loomis rods(which don’t carry the unconditional warranty) as expensive as their equivalent Sage (et. al) rods? Performance? Doubt probably! I would much rather spend a couple extra bucks to help me if for some reason my fly rods breaks than to spend a a couple extra bucks to help Gary Loomis’ pay his insurance on his Mercedes! I own a Loomis rod, and while it is of what I consider average performance, I will never buy another one because I find other manufacturer’s rods as good, if not better, and they come with the added benefit of the lifetime warranty. Which, by the way, I have never had to use in 8 years of fly fishing and I hope I never have to. But its there, just in case.

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I have an attic full of things that had a lifetime guarantee and after a few years could no longer get them fixed or replaced.  I suppose that if you become insistent on the guarantee the dealer will arrange with a "hit man" to fulfill your contract. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison Thank the "free replacement" lifetime guarantee and all those who break rods simply to get a new one! Prediction: this policy will stop in the next

years. <snip

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I have an attic full of things that had a lifetime guarantee and after a few

years could no longer get them fixed or replaced.  I suppose that if you become insistent on the guarantee the dealer will arrange with a "hit man" to fulfill your contract. Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison

I don’t understand your point.

Response:

I have an attic full of things that had a lifetime guarantee and after a few years could no longer get them fixed or replaced.  I suppose that if you become insistent on the guarantee the dealer will arrange with a "hit man" to fulfill your contract. Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison I don’t understand your point.

Ernie-You are a guy who posts here all the time and i have enjoyed your comments–up till this one. All the rod makers that state their guarantee fulfill their guarantees. I have broken Orvis  and Sage rods and never had a bit of trouble.None of the rod companies could get away with refusal on their guarantee–they would be lepers at the party!

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are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

Response:

are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

Hi all, Sage has a new series of specialty rods for very light fishing situations.  They have 3 sizes available for 1998.  Size  0, 1 and 2 line rods and  complete outfits. I have personally tried these rods/outfits and they cast very well. Sage worked with Scientific Angler to develop the new fly lines for these rods. If you are interested in fishing 7x and 8x tippet with #20 and smaller flies you might want to take a look. If this is not your ‘cup of  tea’, then don’t let it ruin your day. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

Burnout? I hope it never happens to me. I plan to fly-fish forever, or untill I can no longer wade successfully. This is not a sport to me anymore. Reeleasy1

Response:

Burnout? I hope it never happens to me. I plan to fly-fish forever, or untill I can no longer wade successfully. This is not a sport to me anymore. Reeleasy1

then what has it become to you ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I hope you eat what you catch!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Burnout? I hope it never happens to me. I plan to fly-fish forever, or untill I can no longer wade successfully. This is not a sport to me anymore. Reeleasy1

Response:

"Why flog the water in desperation when just sitting and looking at water brings a satisfaction and peace that will last longer than a trout on a line." I’ve watched you do just this Mark, and wondered when I’d be able to with the same level of calm.  I wouldn’t say I flog in desperation, because I’m quite certain that the next cast will be the one.  But I am in full agreement that if it becomes anything less than joyous, taking in a distant thunderstorm or listening to the breeze through the high grasses will do just fine. JE

Response:

or listening to the breeze through the high grasses will do just fine.

Good point. If the fish aren’t biting, light up a big bomber. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

or listening to the breeze through the high grasses will do just fine.

Good point. If the fish aren’t biting, light up a big bomber. — TimW Halfordian Golfer OK, you got me……. JE

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

While I know of a few who have suffered the symptoms you describe I am not one of them; for the problem is: "Flyfishing can’t get out!" Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it.

I became, and remain to some extent, so very discouraged with the sport that I can empathize completely. I can not stand any of the magazines anymore at all. I’m sick of the overt commercialism and greed.   The rape of Maclean to sell Jeeps disgusts me. C&R Purists make me mad as souless drones. Equipment snobs make me gag. This proclivity for acceptance of crowds while flyfishing is ludicrous. and on and on…. Spinolio is right there, right now…I think. But, I must say that I am getting better.  A fishless but beautiful fall day on my birthday as the leaves and the weather changed, triggered a change in me. Perspective on age and mortality and the beauty in our sport changed that day. I killed and ate a 16 inch brown about a month ago and I remembered that I am a fisherman first and a flyfisherman second.  This is a very important distinction to me.  It pleases me, and I don’t care what anyone else thinks.   This is the most important lesson I have learned. Do what pleases you and you will be happy.   My suggestion is to just plain go fishing for awhile.   Go trolling.  Cast a lure for Pike.  Do something different. Your first Crappie on a worm will put everything back in perspective again and when you pick up that fly rod you will be at peace. Good luck, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

I see it every year. It might be that people don’t get enough out of just going. Lot’s of people last about 5 years, then they go into Pro Bass or golf. Some guys are busy with their kids in Soccer and will be back in 5 to 10 years. A real "Outdoorsman" will be fishing his entire life. I have several friends that are fishing at 80 plus years. They are in boats now, as wading is to difficult. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

I think if I ever get burned out on fishing I will just lay down and go to sleep for there will be no reason to get up. — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Yes, I’ve had that.  That happens when I don’t have the gas money to go!

Response:

Only burnout I’ve had in 50 years of this stuff is too many honey-do’s and not enough fishin’ time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

This may help.  After catching a few fish and experiencing that burnt out feeling, cut your hook from the fly and fish hookless.  It will be impossible to bring a fish in, but the challenge will be in the strike.  I often do this this with poppers in salt water fly fishing.  Who cares if the fish is fought and eventually conquered, the challenge is in the deception and the strike.

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout?

        Yes! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley       2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout?

Last year I fished Yellowstone (twice), the Kenai, Oregon, and Idaho.   As I was packing my gear after a pleasant day fishing in Idaho in late October, all of a sudden it hit me that the season was over and that there would be no more fishing.  What surprised me was the feeling of relief.  I guess you could call it a burnout. All that has changed now. <g -AR

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Jeez I wish I fished often enough to even come close to burn out Roger

Response:

Only burnout I’ve had in 50 years of this stuff is too many honey-do’s and not enough fishin’ time.

I would love nothing more than to have the opportunity to burn out on Fly Fishing! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

Tony: We need a little more background here… Do you fish every day? How many hours? How long have you been flyfishing? Do you catch a fish (the SPECIFIC fish you’re after) every cast? Do you fish the same water every day? Are your casting/presentation/retreive/playing/releasing skills perfect? Do you work? I’ve been at this for close to 40 years and have never felt even the beginning stages of "burnout".  But then again, this work thing cuts seriously into my fishing time. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. I can’t say I’ve experienced burnout but I had a new experience last weekend that may be similar. I was fishing a spring creek that was all "No kill" for the first time. It was typical spring creek fishing. There were 10-30 14-20" fish in each good hole clearly visible. They were rising to a prolific caddis hatch in the smooth pools when the wind died down. They would spook easy but resumed feeding after 10 min. I stalked the holes and tried various nymphs, emergers and caddis imitations with no luck until I went to the tried and true quill wing caddis (brown and grey versions but not black) with a trimmed down wing. Then I was catching them regularly. You would think this would have made me excited but after a number of fish I started to lose interest because it became too easy. The main interest at that point became the difficult lies to cast too. After a while all my grey and brown quill wings were destroyed (not a very robust fly) and it got interesting again to try to get them on something else I had (it worked but with mixed success) that was clearly not their first choice. The catching was great but the fishing could have been better, I suppose. This waning interest may be akin to burnout. I doubt I will go back there much except that it was perfect conditions for my daughter to be able to wade the shallows and net for me so I may try that this summer. Jon

Yeah , that’s the way I feel when the fishing is too easy. It becomes routine. I do a lot of saltwater flyfishing and when we run into large schools of stripers or blues and you catch a fish on almost every cast it gets boring. Go figure. –tony

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. I became, and remain to some extent, so very discouraged with the sport that I can empathize completely. I can not stand any of the magazines anymore at all. I’m sick of the overt commercialism and greed.   The rape of Maclean to sell Jeeps disgusts me. C&R Purists make me mad as souless drones. Equipment snobs make me gag. This proclivity for acceptance of crowds while flyfishing is ludicrous. and on and on…. Spinolio is right there, right now…I think. But, I must say that I am getting better.  A fishless but beautiful fall day on my birthday as the leaves and the weather changed, triggered a change in me. Perspective on age and mortality and the beauty in our sport changed that day. I killed and ate a 16 inch brown about a month ago and I remembered that I am a fisherman first and a flyfisherman second.  This is a very important distinction to me.  It pleases me, and I don’t care what anyone else thinks.   This is the most important lesson I have learned. Do what pleases you and you will be happy.   My suggestion is to just plain go fishing for awhile.   Go trolling.  Cast a lure for Pike.  Do something different. Your first Crappie on a worm will put everything back in perspective again and when you pick up that fly rod you will be at peace. Good luck,

other than thumping those you find dislikable this was a nice post Tim. If you’d cut out the 1st paragraph it would have been a truly admirable bit of musing. Keep trying you old blood sucking buzzer! 8^) Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it.

I can’t say I’ve experienced burnout but I had a new experience last weekend that may be similar. I was fishing a spring creek that was all "No kill" for the first time. It was typical spring creek fishing. There were 10-30 14-20" fish in each good hole clearly visible. They were rising to a prolific caddis hatch in the smooth pools when the wind died down. They would spook easy but resumed feeding after 10 min. I stalked the holes and tried various nymphs, emergers and caddis imitations with no luck until I went to the tried and true quill wing caddis (brown and grey versions but not black) with a trimmed down wing. Then I was catching them regularly. You would think this would have made me excited but after a number of fish I started to lose interest because it became too easy. The main interest at that point became the difficult lies to cast too. After a while all my grey and brown quill wings were destroyed (not a very robust fly) and it got interesting again to try to get them on something else I had (it worked but with mixed success) that was clearly not their first choice. The catching was great but the fishing could have been better, I suppose. This waning interest may be akin to burnout. I doubt I will go back there much except that it was perfect conditions for my daughter to be able to wade the shallows and net for me so I may try that this summer. Jon

Response:

I see it every year. It might be that people don’t get enough out of just going. Lot’s of people last about 5 years, then they go into Pro Bass or golf. Some guys are busy with their kids in Soccer and will be back in 5 to 10 years. A real "Outdoorsman" will be fishing his entire life. I have several friends that are fishing at 80 plus years. They are in boats now, as wading is to difficult.

Fishing burnout shouldn’t keep one from venturing out to a stream or hiking to a pond.  These are the most beautiful places in the world and there is much more enjoyment to be had than just catching fish.  Burnout and depression is a common thread among many of the posts here lately, and I think that we all need to broaden our horizons to ensure a true enjoyment of the sport.  Why sulk because of no fish when you could take some photos, draw a sketch, hike to a vantage point or identify plants, rocks, birds, and animal tracks. Why flog the water in desperation when just sitting and looking at water brings a satisfaction and peace that will last longer than a trout on a line. mark vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering    from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman    in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it.    –tony SURE.  Just quit for a while and recharge.  You will enjoy the sport all the more when you inevitably return. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

Question:

I’ll be staying up at Moosehead the week of the 28th. (Not the best time of year, I know.) I’d appreciate any  recommendations for stream or pond fishing in the area. Thanks, Jim — Opinions expressed are my own, and not those of D&B Software.

Response:

I’ll be staying up at Moosehead the week of the 28th. (Not the best time of year, I know.) I’d appreciate any  recommendations for stream or pond fishing in the area. Thanks, Jim — Opinions expressed are my own, and not those of D&B Software.

Try the East Outlet and the Roach River. Wilson Pond, Secret Pond, Big Squaw, and Rum Pond. Ask Danny Legere at the Maine Guide Fly Shop what’s working and where. He’ll be a big help. Bill Reg. ME Master Guide Lic. NYS Guide — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

Response:

Question:

Is there a censorship policy established for this group?  It was fun for a while to watch the K-9 act like a fool, but I’m afraid it’s escalated to obsurdity.  This boy vs girl mentality is remeniscent of a 4th grade   classroom with the corresponding IQ & emotional levels. If there is no censorship policy, then I would encourage other’s to use the "n/return" function on your computers. Tim

Response:

: Is there a censorship policy established for this group?  It was fun for a : while to watch the K-9 act like a fool, but I’m afraid it’s escalated to : obsurdity.  This boy vs girl mentality is remeniscent of a 4th grade   : classroom with the corresponding IQ & emotional levels. : If there is no censorship policy, then I would encourage other’s to use : the "n/return" function on your computers. : Tim The only censorship should be from censor mavens such as yourself.   Go read alt.cindy.brady, eh… Tim Walker

Response:

: The only censorship should be from censor mavens such as yourself.   : Go read alt.cindy.brady, eh… : Tim Walker Heeee’sss BACK! Welcome. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

The only censorship should be from censor mavens such as yourself.  

Having Tim Walker defend free speech for all r.o.f.f. postings is like having Frank Zappa defend free speech for the entire rock music industry. Yes, theoretically, I’m all for free speech; I just wish that all rock musicians and all r.o.f.f. posters had as much worthwhile to say as Frank and Tim.  Provocative posts which encourage fresh thinking about fly fishing are one thing; the boring, puerile, misogynist whinings that are so fashionable nowadays are quite another. Woods Hole, MA   USA

Response:

[gone with swell foops of the del key] : and Tim.  Provocative posts which encourage fresh thinking about fly : fishing are one thing; the boring, puerile, misogynist whinings that are so : fashionable nowadays are quite another. And, virtually indistingushable sometimes…. Tim Walker

Response:

Question:

My family will be visiting the Tacoma/Olympia area at the beginning of August, and I would like fish streams within a couple of hours drive. Does anyone have some recommendations? thx….. Bob

Response:

My family will be visiting the Tacoma/Olympia area at the beginning of August, and I would like fish streams within a couple of hours drive. Does anyone have some recommendations?

I’d hit the road north and run up along the east-side of the Olympic Pennisula to Lilliwaup, and visit the Hama Hama River for some sea-run cutt’s… <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Youll have so much fishing within two hours you wont know what to do:  to the west – all the famous Olympic Peninsula streams for steelhead; plus the Elwha for trout (near Port angeles); to the south, youll have the cowlitz, Kalama and other famous steelhead and salmon rivers (plus some trout); to the north (if you want to drive through seattle) youll have the Green, Skykomish and Stilly; to the east, you have mtn lakes, marginal trout streams and youre abnout 2 hours from the Yakima River, the states best fly fishing river….  Not to mention the Puget Sound salt water where people fly fish quite a bit, including from shore for salmon, cutts and snags. Have fun, Andy Taylor Pocatello, Idaho

Response:

Question:

M. Gades) writes: I’ve been kicking this idea around for a while and I think it could

be SOME TEXT DELETED So, where can we find your www home page? -tgades

RESPONSE: I understand your doubts howerer, I do not have a home page.  While I admit that I am a business, I am also a fisherman.  My educational background is in communication and I’d like to do some things for the NET. When the time comes for me to create a page, my page would still have to bear up to the scrutiny of the members of the Newsgroups.  I intend to make sure that voting is carried out by a third party like other CFV’s in the groups.  This is not motivated by greed!!!  

Response:

I’ve been kicking this idea around for a while and I think it could be interesting.  What I propose is a series of awards voted on by the fishing newsgroup community to both recognize and influence the WWW and FTP developers to create more and better information for us – The Fishermen.

Good idea – go for it! You talk as if there is some seperate group of people we are dependent on to create WWW sites, but all the fishing sites I know of are fisherpersons’s personal work. That is the beauty (and nuisance) of WWW – it doesn’t take a multimillion$ corporation to create and broadcast work. Because what you’re seeing doesn’t go through any committee approval process, there’s quite a bit of variance in peoples’ works.  If you have funding to give some awards you can perhaps inspire people to create works more to your liking – tell us what you’d like to give us a little time before the voting starts. The Virtual Fly Shop that Mike Tucker has put together has a good directory to other fishing sites. It lists all the sites that Mike has read about here and on the listserver.  I don’t have the URL handy but it is posted here on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly often. If you have an idea, put a few hours into learning HTML and get started. I was able to learn enough and make my site in a weekend with the NCSA Simple HTML editor for Hypercard/Mac. If you don’t use Macintosh your timing couldn’t be better; I hear that windows PCs can now do graphics and there are free HTML editors available for them too.  ;) If you need someone to host it and cannot find an affordable site, let me know and I can put you in contact.   Mark Vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML Also while your there, check out the ProArts Eastbay Open Studios web site: http://www.lanminds.com/local/proarts.html (I didn’t make this but it was my idea and I’m damn proud of it)

Response:

AMI News has created a centralized source of outdoor information that includes links to various fishing pages. As a news organization we are trying to find fishing conditions from around the world along with other interesting fishing information that appeals to a wide range of readers.   We invite you to submit any and all web sites for consideration. There is NO CHARGE to link. We also invite any fishing site to link with the AMI Rec Network. Take a look: http.//www.aminews.com/ami Thanks, Rob Brown Webmaster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Take a look: http.//www.aminews.com/ami

My netscape reports no DNS entry to be found for www.aminews.com.    

Response:

I’d like to submit my homepage.  It is relatively new, but I will be doing lots of work on it over the next few weeks.  I focus on flyfishing and I live and fish mostly in Oregon, but fish often in Idaho, and take trips to Washington, California, Montana, just got back from the Green River in Utah, and a Red fish excursion to New Orleans.   http://www.teleport.com/~anthonyn thanks, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – AMI News has created a centralized source of outdoor information that includes links to various fishing pages. As a news organization we are trying to find fishing conditions from around the world along with other interesting fishing information that appeals to a wide range of readers.   We invite you to submit any and all web sites for consideration. There is NO CHARGE to link. We also invite any fishing site to link with the AMI Rec Network. Take a look: http.//www.aminews.com/ami Thanks, Rob Brown Webmaster

Response:

I’ve been kicking this idea around for a while and I think it could be interesting.  What I propose is a series of awards voted on by the fishing newsgroup community to both recognize and influence the WWW and FTP developers to create more and better information for us – The Fishermen. It seems like everyday, there is a posting on where to find good WWW information.  This process will serve to organize and rate the various offerings out there and help make the info available to all.  Later, we could possibly create a home page as an index to the best stuff out there. Please confine comment to the newsgroups as I think I would get swamped with E-Mail at this point.  I will be sharing more details of my Idea in a few days but I just want to get discussion going.

Response:

I’ve been kicking this idea around for a while and I think it could be interesting.  What I propose is a series of awards voted on by the fishing newsgroup community to both recognize and influence the WWW and FTP developers to create more and better information for us – The Fishermen. SOME TEXT DELETED

So, where can we find your www home page? -tgades

Response:

Question:

   The first twenty-one and half feet of my fly line broke off!  I don’t know what happened other than I must have stepped on it on a rock.  I bought it just a couple of weeks ago.  It is Fenwick’s World Class fly line, Trout class, WF-6-F.  My questions are:    1.  Should it be more abrasion resistant than this?  Should I seek an exchange (Cabelas or Fenwick)?    2.  Is it salvageable?  I wouldn’t think one would want to splice it together.    3.  The Cortland I had previously could be reversed on the reel and the opposite end used as the casting end.  I didn’t find any mention of being able to do this with this line.  Would I even want to with it being twenty-one feet shorter?    Thanks for any information anyone can provide!    Larry Larry Dawson                                      Lincoln, NE   USA    "The concept of the "work week" is one of the more deadening    aspects of our civilization, robbing us of, among other    things, allthe great ideas that could be hatched by people    who’d do their best thinking at two in the morning if they    weren’t too tired of working allday …"          The View From Rat Lake,  John Gierach

Response:

Most fly line manufacturers (Sci Ang and Cortland)  will replace free of charge a defective line.  Just send the remaining old line back with your message of what happened.

Response:

  The first twenty-one and half feet of my fly line broke off!  I don’t know what happened other than I must have stepped on it on a rock.  I bought it just a couple of weeks ago.  It is Fenwick’s World Class fly line, Trout class, WF-6-F.  My questions are:   1.  Should it be more abrasion resistant than this?  Should I seek an exchange (Cabelas or Fenwick)?

Well, being as you don’t even have a clue as to how you broke it, it’s a bit presumptuous for anyone to pass judgement in this regard. You could certainly give the exchange route a try, but don’t bet the fishfarm on it…   2.  Is it salvageable?  I wouldn’t think one would want to splice it together.

Frankly, I wouldn’t. I suppose one could use something like acetone to dissolve a few inches or so of the coating at both ends, come up with some way to join the cores together (anyone think of a good knot for that?) and then build up the splice with Goo or something similar to match the diameter of the line. But this seems like going to heroic measures for possibly dissappointing results.   3.  The Cortland I had previously could be reversed on the reel and the opposite end used as the casting end.  I didn’t find any mention of being able to do this with this line.  Would I even want to with it being twenty-one feet shorter?

You cannot reverse a "Weight Forward" line and have anything even remotely similar to the original casting qualities. You were able to reverse the Cortland line because it was undoubtably a DT – "Double Taper" – line. If you check out the stuff that came with your current line there should be a description of the various tapers on the different lines, and you’ll see that there are significant differences in the front and back tapers of a typical WF line… In summary I suspect you just learned a valuable – if costly – lesson… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

   The first twenty-one and half feet of my fly line broke off!  I don’t know what happened other than I must have stepped on it on a rock.  I bought it just a couple of weeks ago.  It is Fenwick’s World Class fly line, Trout class, WF-6-F.  My questions are:    3.  The Cortland I had previously could be reversed on the reel and the opposite end used as the casting end.  I didn’t find any mention of being able to do this with this line.  Would I even want to with it being twenty-one feet shorter?

hi, You definitely DON"T want to reverse this line ! A WF line has the first 30 feet or so for casting and the rest is a "shooting" or travelling line. If you reversed one in the past, it was probably a double taper line, and that is the big advantage, being able to reverse. I would certainly ask about compensation, they are supposed to be tougher than that.(on the other hand, rocks do cause problems!) Good Luck. Tight Lines Tackle Shop and Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    The first twenty-one and half feet of my fly line broke off!  I don’t
know what happened other than I must have stepped on it on a rock.  I
bought it just a couple of weeks ago.  It is Fenwick’s World Class fly
line, Trout class, WF-6-F.  My questions are:
   1.  Should it be more abrasion resistant than this?  Should I seek an
exchange (Cabelas or Fenwick)?
   2.  Is it salvageable?  I wouldn’t think one would want to splice it
together.
   3.  The Cortland I had previously could be reversed on the reel and the
opposite end used as the casting end.  I didn’t find any mention of being
able to do this with this line.  Would I even want to with it being
twenty-one feet shorter?
   Thanks for any information anyone can provide!
   Larry
Larry Dawson                                      Lincoln, NE   USA
   "The concept of the "work week" is one of the more deadening
   aspects of our civilization, robbing us of, among other
   things, allthe great ideas that could be hatched by people
   who’d do their best thinking at two in the morning if they
   weren’t too tired of working allday …"
         The View From Rat Lake,  John Gierach

About a year ago there was an article in Fly Angler Mag on how to splice fly lines together. The author used a short length of 20 to 35 pound test monofilament (depending on diameter of fly line), and using sandpaper sort of sharpened the ends of the mono. Then he used a small drop of 5 minute epoxy on the ends of the mono and slipped the ends of the mono up the core of the fly line on both ends of the cut. If you have the right length of mono you can butt the ends of the fly line next to each other, and the excess epoxy sealed the ends together. You can only get the mono about a quarter inch inside the fly line, so the entire splice is only about a half an inch long. This is the way I attach a length of mono to the end of my fly line and then tie a loop in the end of the mono for a loop to loop connection with my leader, so I can attest to the strength of the connection. I may be able to find the article, so if you are interested send me your snail mail address and I’ll send you a xerox copy of it. Darryl Hayashida

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There is another method for repairing this line, that Lefty Kreh talks about in the tackle Symposium, of his Little Library series.  Use some braided monofilament(50#) like a "chinese handcuff" and then whip the ends of the braided mono and apply some pliobond.  Should hold up just fine, if you can’t get a new line from Cortland. Crashjibe

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Hi. Im Murray and I run a fly fishing school in the Toronto area.  I have quite a number of lines that are used every weekend by novices who really beat up the lines and equipment.   I have quite a number of lines that have been used like this for many years and I have never had a line break ever.  I think that you should take it back, its obviously defective.  If they wont take it back there are knots that you can use to splice it together.  I have never dont this so I dont know of any off the top of my head but you should be able to find them in a good fly fishing book.   Your question about turning the line around is valid, but this can only be done if it is a double tapered line.  if it is a weight forward line it cant be turned around.  (Well it could but it wouldnt cast very well.) I probably shouldn’t say this but I have not found a Fenwick line that I have ever liked.  I don’t think that they compare to a good courtland or sientific anglers line. hope that this helps.   Murray.  Murray’s Fly Fishing School. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   The first twenty-one and half feet of my fly line broke off!  I don’t  know what happened other than I must have stepped on it on a rock.  I  bought it just a couple of weeks ago.  It is Fenwick’s World Class fly   line, Trout class, WF-6-F.  My questions are:   1.  Should it be more abrasion resistant than this?   Should I seek an  exchange (Cabelas or Fenwick)?   2.  Is it salvageable?  I wouldn’t think one would want to splice it  together.   3.  The Cortland I had previously could be reversed on the reel and the  opposite end used as the casting end.  I didn’t find any mention of being  able to do this with this line.  Would I even want to with it being  twenty-one feet shorter?   Thanks for any information anyone can provide!   Larry    /     AOL:  LarryD39   "The concept of the "work week" is one of the more deadening   aspects of our civilization, robbing us of, among other   things, allthe great ideas that could be hatched by people   who’d do their best thinking at two in the morning if they   weren’t too tired of working allday …"         The View From Rat Lake,  John Gierach  

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LARRY: I WOULD SUGGEST THE RETURN TO THE STORE METHOD.  YOU CAN TRY A BLIND SPLICE AS SUGGESTED, BUT IF YOUR NOT FAMLIAR WITH IT, I WOULDN’T UNDERTAKE IT RIGHT NOW FOR A LINE YOU WILL FISH REGULARLY.  ON THE RETURN TO THE STORE THOUGH, THE SHOP OWNER SHOULD’T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.  FENWICK HAS A VERY GOOD GUARANTEE ON THE BACK OF THIER PACKAGING.  MOST OF THESE MANUFACTURERS WANT TO KEEP YOU USING THIER PRODUCT AND THEY DO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING AS TO " IT JUST BROKE", IT’S CALLED KEEP THE PRODUCT IN THE CUSTOMERS HANDS.  HOWVEVER, THEY DO APPRECIATE A LITTLE EFFORT ON THE PART OF CONSUMER AS TO HOW YOU THINK IT MAY HAVE HAPPENED, POSSIBLY COMBINED WITH COMMENTS ON PROIR HAPPINESS.  I’D GO THE REPLACEMENT ROUTE WITH THE STORE FIRST AND IF THAT DIDN’T WORK, THEN MAIL IT BACK TO FENWICK – I’D BE VERY SURPISED IF THEY DIDN’T HELP.  I’D LIKE TO HEAR HOW YOU MAKE OUT. GOOD LUCK, BOB/FL.

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Question:

        I have a few questions regarding fly tying materials, and fly tying for profit.  First, I was wondering if anyone out there might have any suggestions about where I can find large mylar tubing (say, 3/8” diam.) for making saltwater zonkers.  I want to make these flies with a deeper body than my trout flies, but cannot find tubing that will fit the size body I want.         I also would be interested in any suggestions anyone has on selling flies directly to the fishermen, and how I would go about setting up my own fly tying business.  I am especially interested in (cheap) ways to advertize that will be successful.  I tied for local shops over the summer, and have come to the realization that it just isn’t worth it since they only pay me 1/2 the retail price of the flies.  In selling directly to the fishermen, I could undercut the shops’ pirces, but still make more money for myself.  I’m just not sure how to go about setting this up and where I would get extra tyers if the demand proves to be more than I can handle on my own.         In the case that this proves impractical, I’d aslo be interested in any information or comments you might have about companies like "Mc Kensie Fly Co." that buy new fly patterns from tyers and give them a percentage of the profits generated by their sales.  Has anyone out there heard of and/or tried this?         Thank you for taking the time to read through this posting to anyone who had the patience to get to this point, and for any information you might have for me.                                         -Michael Frank

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   I have a few questions regarding fly tying materials, and fly tying for profit.  First, I was wondering if anyone out there might have any suggestions about where I can find large mylar tubing (say, 3/8” diam.) for making saltwater zonkers.  I want to make these flies with a deeper body than my trout flies, but cannot find tubing that will fit the size body I want.

I found some of this size (and several others) in gold, silver, and pearl in my local sewing and crafts shop.    I also would be interested in any suggestions anyone has on selling flies directly to the fishermen, and how I would go about setting up my own fly tying business.  I am especially interested in (cheap) ways to advertize that will be successful.  I tied for local shops over the summer, and have come to the realization that it just isn’t worth it since they only pay me 1/2 the retail price of the flies.  In selling directly to the fishermen, I could undercut the shops’ pirces, but still make more money for myself.  I’m just not sure how to go about setting this up and where I would get extra tyers if the demand proves to be more than I can handle on my own.

Be careful you don’t cut your own throat on this.  As a professional fly tyer, you won’t want to work too hard at driving down the price of flies. Nothing wrong with offering us a bargain, but you’ll make more money in the long run by selling quality than bargain basement.                                    -Michael Frank

Good luck. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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   I have a few questions regarding fly tying materials, and fly tying for profit.      I also would be interested in any suggestions anyone has on selling flies directly to the fishermen, and how I would go about

Al Troth is the only commercial fly tyer I know of who makes a good living tying flies (and guiding, and other things). The main reason is that he sells all his flies at retail. His total production has been spoken for for years. For every fly he ties, there are 10 people who want to buy it. Trouble is, not every fly tyer is as famous as Al (the inventor of the Elk Hair Caddis, for one). I wonder if free-lance tiers couldn’t form a cooperative of sorts, which would peel off a minimum percentage for advertizing, thus leaving more profit for the tiers. Seems like the net might be a good way to get this going. Although others might complain that advertizing has no place on the net. Royalies? Yeah, that’s the way to go….the only way to make good money with flies. Umpqua Feather Merchants (Glide Or) started the royalties business. Fly designs are not easily patented, and patents are not easily enforced. Umpqua does it for marketing reasons. They like to say that their flies are designed by nationally known fishing personalities. And that’s the catch. It’s not enough to have a good new fly design. You also have to be able to write about it, and get your stuff published. So if you are an author as well as a fly designer, you can make money. They usually pay 10% of the wholesale price…just like a salesman’s commission. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -setting up my own fly tying business.  I am especially interested in (cheap) ways to advertize that will be successful.  I tied for local shops over the summer, and have come to the realization that it just isn’t worth it since they only pay me 1/2 the retail price of the flies.  In selling directly to the fishermen, I could undercut the shops’ pirces, but still make more money for myself.  I’m just not sure how to go about setting this up and where I would get extra tyers if the demand proves to be more than I can handle on my own.    In the case that this proves impractical, I’d aslo be interested in any information or comments you might have about companies like "Mc Kensie Fly Co." that buy new fly patterns from tyers and give them a percentage of the profits generated by their sales.  Has anyone out there heard of and/or tried this?    Thank you for taking the time to read through this posting to anyone who had the patience to get to this point, and for any information you might have for me.                                    -Michael Frank

–

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       I have a few questions regarding fly tying materials, and fly tying for profit.          I also would be interested in any suggestions anyone has on selling flies directly to the fishermen, and how I would go about Al Troth is the only commercial fly tyer I know of who makes a good living tying flies (and guiding, and other things). The main reason is that he sells all his flies at retail. His total production has been spoken for for years. For every fly he ties, there are 10 people who want to buy it. Trouble is, not every fly tyer is as famous as Al (the inventor of the Elk Hair Caddis, for one). I wonder if free-lance tiers couldn’t form a cooperative of sorts,

This is a very good idea, it merits more discussion. which would peel off a minimum percentage for advertizing, thus leaving more profit for the tiers. Seems like the net might be a good way to get this going. Although others might complain that advertizing has no place on the net.

A number of years back I had good success tying through the net. I charged $1.00 per fly, and could barely keep up with the demand. The feedback was positive, the ‘advertising’ wasn’t hard-sell or in-your-face, more like ‘hey, I tie, anybody that’s interested, let me know.’ Royalies? Yeah, that’s the way to go….the only way to make good money with flies. Umpqua Feather Merchants (Glide Or) started the royalties business. Fly designs are not easily patented..

[deleted for brevity]                                        -Michael Frank

Absolutely. I know a guy who has done this, and I believe he does quite well. He’s locally well-known, but certainly not a published or "big name" in the the flyfishing world, like Troth. — Dave Ridge Storage Technology Corp

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