Question:

On the subject of trolling, I posted a rather obviously titled post last week, in which I described trollers using a fishing analogy. They are in it to see what they can catch – they like seeing how many people they can get to respond or get annoyed. The sad things is that the trolls that seem to catch all the attention are the ones that are about as subtle as dynamite fishing. It can be quite enjoyable to follow a troll thread if it started as fly-fishing and is cuningly crafted, but that is not usually the case – people continue to chase the sticks of dynamite that float down through the pond. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…..I don’t necessarily advocate reporting obvious trolls, as generally they will get bored and move on independently (as long as people tend to ignore them). People who stay for the sole purpose of harassing individual members of a group, or who engage in activities counter to the charter or FAQ (if existent) are fair game for anyone, though. You reap what you sow, and that sort of thing. —   Annette http://www.technogirl.net

Response:

did i say you can’t have an opinion? where did you see that in my comment? besides your off topic

off topic as it is – the debates about who – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – should say what are the longest threads on the NG – is it a case of talk one idea, do another – by the way – the net is not private, nor is it free – and the stupidity that surrounds the topic of what can  and can’t be said, is not much different than the constant nikon, minolta pentax abusiveness and brand loyalty name calling Carl, Complaining about threads that are seen to be off topic is part of the debate. Just as people on rec.photo.equipment.35mm can use the forum to complain about each other, so may others point to the fact that the NG’s main aim (in their minds) is to discuss 35mm equipment. I am not trying to exercise censorship but am exercising my right to an opinion. I cannot and would not want to stop this NG from evolving into rec.photo.bickering if that’s what people want. But surely I am allowed to have my say in the development. PT

Response:

i find it interesting that – off topic as it is – the debates about who should say what are the longest threads on the NG – is it a case of talk one idea, do another – by the way – the net is not private, nor is it free – and the stupidity that surrounds the topic of what can  and can’t be said, is not much different than the constant nikon, minolta pentax abusiveness and brand loyalty name calling

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I for one am sick of the way this NG is being abused by idiotic small boys who want to use it for their imbecile games. The purpose of this group is to discuss 35 mm equipment. Unfortunately 35mm is about the size of some contributors’ brains. Let’s get back to camera talk please. The little boys can continue their backbiting elsewhere. Please don’t abuse net freedom by subjecting the rest of us to your infantile behaviour. Patty

Response:

should say what are the longest threads on the NG – is it a case of talk one idea, do another – by the way – the net is not private, nor is it free – and the stupidity that surrounds the topic of what can  and can’t be said, is not much different than the constant nikon, minolta pentax abusiveness and brand loyalty name calling

Carl, Complaining about threads that are seen to be off topic is part of the debate. Just as people on rec.photo.equipment.35mm can use the forum to complain about each other, so may others point to the fact that the NG’s main aim (in their minds) is to discuss 35mm equipment. I am not trying to exercise censorship but am exercising my right to an opinion. I cannot and would not want to stop this NG from evolving into rec.photo.bickering if that’s what people want. But surely I am allowed to have my say in the development. PT

Response:

You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. But you can’t position your soap box on the private property of someone who doesn’t want you there. If he kicks you off his property and tells you to set up your soapbox on your own property, that is *not* censorship.

Are you comparing your private property with the usenet? There are private email lists. You can create one anytime you like. Just go to topica.com or onelist.com. Then it will be all yours and you will be the dictator. But here, you are not- this is not your private property. And of course there are moderated lists. This is not.

Response:

PLONK !!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, please. It’s not "censorship" or anything remotely like that. There’s a big difference between censorship and stopping someone from deliberately annoying all the users in a newsgroup every day for weeks on end. As for "ignoring" him, that’s what filters are for, but he started changing his name for the express purpose of defeating such filters. He has been determined to annoy people, and his posts have had no other goal or content. That has nothing to do with "freedom of speech." Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people, within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage. When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity. Neil — There’s a disturbance in the Force, Luke! Somewhere in the galaxy, someone must  have misused the term "prime lens" again. Censorship is not the answer. Ignoring is. Freedom of speech comes with a price. — Joe  Zorzin

Response:

Joseph Zorzin skrev: Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people, within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage. When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity.

It is not that simple. Freedom of speech does not mean the right to cause other people costs, for example. SpeedOfDarkness type of sustained personal attacks would *never* happen in the free press, nor would a magazine feel that it was his right to get a free page now and then to display his message. I don’t belive radio stations or TV channels would think they was obliged to send his rants either. My problem (a very small problem, mostly of principal nature, not practical) is that I can’t choose to not listen, that is,  I pay the cost of conveying the message, not SOD – and I have no real control over that cost. This is a Internet type of problem that wasn’t foreseen by the founding fathers, likely. I mean, what would you like to pay for your photo magazine page by page, not knowing if the next page is reasonably on topic or just a advertisment or a lunatic personal vendetta ? The ‘Net is remarkably anarchistic and "free", but there are conventions that better be followed anyway. — Anders Svensson

Response:

Steve skrev: Am I missing something here?  Since when is the Internet "private property?"

It is the combined property of those owning the infrastructure, and those who use it. Anarchy’s positive side is that anything can be tried once, the backside is that the sanctions can be weird, unusual and painful as they are not balanced by legislative and judicial forces. — Anders Svensson

Response:

Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people,

No. Freedom of speech is not about annoying people, and just repeating the same insults day after day, week after week, flooding the newsgroup with that juvenile crap, has nothing to do with freedom of speech. within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything.

Try it and see. Depending on the city, you may or may not be able to get away with that. There are laws against making a nuisance of yourself. Other people have rights too, including the right not to be pestered continuously by someone who is just trying to bother them. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment.

No, it is not. You are trivializing an important right if you think it is there to enable people to annoy other people. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage.

How do you know? Are you authorized to decide what does or does not hurt or damage other people? When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity.

On the contrary, your post shows yours. It is only the very juvenile who believe people have some "right" to annoy other people. Neil — There’s a terrible disturbance in the Force, Luke! Somewhere in the galaxy, someone must be misusing the term "prime lens" again.

Response:

Am I missing something here?  Since when is the Internet "private property?" But you can’t position your soap box on the private property of someone who doesn’t want you there. If he kicks you off his property and tells you to set up your soapbox on your own property, that is *not* censorship.

The servers, man, the servers all belong to somebody.  Many are the property of public universities–and those do have the right to limit what is stored on them.  Others are wholly private, owned by companies or private universities in most cases.  Some others are owned by non- US governments that don’t have the First Amendment. — Kirk "Nothing is foolproof. Fools are too ingenious" -RAH <I really am at home if you want to reply by e-mail

Response:

You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything.

But you can’t position your soap box on the private property of someone who doesn’t want you there. If he kicks you off his property and tells you to set up your soapbox on your own property, that is *not* censorship. — Kirk "Nothing is foolproof. Fools are too ingenious" -RAH <I really am at home if you want to reply by e-mail

Response:

Am I missing something here?  Since when is the Internet "private property?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But you can’t position your soap box on the private property of someone who doesn’t want you there. If he kicks you off his property and tells you to set up your soapbox on your own property, that is *not* censorship.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, please. It’s not "censorship" or anything remotely like that. There’s a big difference between censorship and stopping someone from deliberately annoying all the users in a newsgroup every day for weeks on end. As for "ignoring" him, that’s what filters are for, but he started changing his name for the express purpose of defeating such filters. He has been determined to annoy people, and his posts have had no other goal or content. That has nothing to do with "freedom of speech." Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people, within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage. When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity.

That isn’t really the point. The "first amendment" argument implies that everyone must by necessity be in the US, which is ridiculous. The Internet is global. The only rules that matter are the ones put in place by an individual’s provider (your comment "within some limits"), and they are not bound by any first amendment claims (even US providers), since they are private entities.  Every ISP has an acceptable use policy that prohibits certain types of acitivites. Earthlink has an AUP which includes the following: (Under items that constitute a violation of Eartlink’s AUP) d. Harassment. Using the Services to transmit any material (by email, uploading, posting, or otherwise) that harasses another. … m. News. EarthLink Members should use their best judgment when posting to any newsgroup. Many groups have charters, published guidelines, FAQs, or "community standards" describing what is and is not considered appropriate. Usenet can be a valuable resource if used properly. The continued posting of off-topic articles is prohibited. Commercial advertisements are off-topic in most newsgroups, especially regional groups not specifically named for such. The presence of such articles in a group is not indicative of the group’s "intended" use. Please familiarize yourself with basic USENET netiquette before posting to a newsgroup. I don’t necessarily advocate reporting obvious trolls, as generally they will get bored and move on independently (as long as people tend to ignore them). People who stay for the sole purpose of harassing individual members of a group, or who engage in activities counter to the charter or FAQ (if existent) are fair game for anyone, though. You reap what you sow, and that sort of thing. —   Annette http://www.technogirl.net

Response:

Oh, please. It’s not "censorship" or anything remotely like that. There’s a big difference between censorship and stopping someone from deliberately annoying all the users in a newsgroup every day for weeks on end. As for "ignoring" him, that’s what filters are for, but he started changing his name for the express purpose of defeating such filters. He has been determined to annoy people, and his posts have had no other goal or content. That has nothing to do with "freedom of speech."

Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people, within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage. When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity. Neil — There’s a disturbance in the Force, Luke! Somewhere in the galaxy, someone must  have misused the term "prime lens" again. Censorship is not the answer. Ignoring is. Freedom of speech comes with a price.

– Joe  Zorzin

Response:

Most of the questionable material is not offensive, but it can be annoying. However,  I don’t think that a sender’s ISP would have any basis to intervene.

It should be in the ISP’s terms of service, but responsible providers will not tolerate their members spamming anyone, including newsgroups, and especially not with abusive and offensive off-topic posts. One person’s spam is another person’s treat and I get nervous about wholesale restriction of these posts. That is not in the internet spirit either. The best solution: If the thread is annoying to you, don’t read it.

The offender in this case has already gone far beyond what any ISP should tolerate. The fact that he now has taken to changing his name here for the express purpose of preventing annoyed users from filtering him out, puts him well beyond the bounds of what anyone should be willing to tolerate. Neil

Response:

Maybe we should rename the NG. Something like rec.character.assasination? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I for one am sick of the way this NG is being abused by idiotic small boys who want to use it for their imbecile games. The purpose of this group is to discuss 35 mm equipment. Unfortunately 35mm is about the size of some contributors’ brains. Let’s get back to camera talk please. The little boys can continue their backbiting elsewhere. Please don’t abuse net freedom by subjecting the rest of us to your infantile behaviour. Patty

Response:

Censorship is not the answer. Ignoring is. Freedom of speech comes with a price.

Response:

Oh, please. It’s not "censorship" or anything remotely like that. There’s a big difference between censorship and stopping someone from deliberately annoying all the users in a newsgroup every day for weeks on end. As for "ignoring" him, that’s what filters are for, but he started changing his name for the express purpose of defeating such filters. He has been determined to annoy people, and his posts have had no other goal or content. That has nothing to do with "freedom of speech." Neil — There’s a disturbance in the Force, Luke! Somewhere in the galaxy, someone must  have misused the term "prime lens" again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Censorship is not the answer. Ignoring is. Freedom of speech comes with a price.

Response:

I for one am sick of the way this NG is being abused by idiotic small boys who want to use it for their imbecile games. The purpose of this group is to discuss 35 mm equipment. Unfortunately 35mm is about the size of some contributors’ brains. Let’s get back to camera talk please. The little boys can continue their backbiting elsewhere. Please don’t abuse net freedom by subjecting the rest of us to your infantile behaviour. Patty

Response:

Most of the questionable material is not offensive, but it can be annoying. However,  I don’t think that a sender’s ISP would have any basis to intervene. One person’s spam is another person’s treat and I get nervous about wholesale restriction of these posts. That is not in the internet spirit either. The best solution: If the thread is annoying to you, don’t read it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Again, there is something offended individuals can do.  Sorry about the fact that I am posting this three times on different threads, but all the threads deal with the same problem of flaming and spamming going on in this newsgroup.  I wanted to be sure people know that abuse addresses exist for a reason, and should be used when they really need to be.  Clearly, this NG has been abused, thus, people should make official complaints about it.  Posting "please stop" will not stop these individuals.  Writing their ISP might, however. Actually, the complaint email address you mention is not private or secretive. If you look at the full headers for any of speed’s posts, you will find that the really want to lodge a complaint, you must forward copies of his offending threads WITH FULL HEADERS to the abuse email address you mentioned.  Only if you do this will Earthlink be able to find out exactly who he is and how to stop him — if they care, which it is possible they won’t.  Earthlink is a very large organization, and they will not likely disable his account with only one complaint.  It will require numerous emails to Earthlink from others like you who have been spammed and flamed by this individual.  Without the full headers, however, Earthlink will have no idea who he is.  You’ve made a good first step, however.  I am also sending this to another newsgroup to which he has offended as well. I think it is a real shame that individuals like "speed of darkness" have so much time on their hands to bring down the quality of the internet and the flow of free communication and speech.  And if they do have that much time, that they choose to spend it the way they do.  Unfortunately, there is little that we can do about it but complain. Truthfully, the only way to really deal with it, other than lodging complaints to the organization he comes from, is to just ignore his posts.  He replies when you reply, and that’s how these unending threads of flaming and spamming get started.  True, he is to blame largely for this whole mess, but we dont’ have to play along with it. I encourage anyone who has been seriously bothered by his posts to send a Earthlink will take care of it, as it is in their hands. Andrew Stoeckley I for one am sick of the way this NG is being abused by idiotic small boys who want to use it for their imbecile games. The purpose of this group is to discuss 35 mm equipment. Unfortunately 35mm is about the size of some contributors’ brains. Let’s get back to camera talk please. The little boys can continue their backbiting elsewhere. Please don’t abuse net freedom by subjecting the rest of us to your infantile behaviour. Patty

Response:

Question:

That would be interesting… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I want to see you cast THAT setup Big Al

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy All… Last July, I had the pleasure of spending some quality angling time on Yellowstone Lake in Yellowstone National Park. The weather was snipped headed out into the center of the lake. We began trolling from north to south, which was a bit of a chore with the winds blowing as hard as they were. I was the first to feel the tug. Unfortunately, with my slow 4 weight fly rod, it is often difficult to get a good hook set, so the fish got off. Many of you may be asking why I would be using a fly rod to troll with. The reasoning lies in the technique being used to land these cutthroats by the dozens. I learned this technique a few years back from my brother, who in turn learned it from a friend of his. You start with a fly reel loaded up with backing. Then, you tie to the backing 3 or 4 colors of leaded line. Leaded line is simply a lead centered line covered in some type of cloth-like material and is available for a reasonable price at most fishing shops. It has the consistency of soft wire. Lengths of leaded line are measured in colors, which run approximately 4 to 5 yards each. So, for example, if pictures at: http://home.earthlink.net/~reinkings Rick

I want to see you cast THAT setup Big Al

Response:

Howdy All… Last July, I had the pleasure of spending some quality angling time on Yellowstone Lake in Yellowstone National Park. The weather was clear, though a strong breeze was blowing out of the southwest. We rented a boat and headed out into the center of the lake. We began trolling from north to south, which was a bit of a chore with the winds blowing as hard as they were. I was the first to feel the tug. Unfortunately, with my slow 4 weight fly rod, it is often difficult to get a good hook set, so the fish got off. Many of you may be asking why I would be using a fly rod to troll with. The reasoning lies in the technique being used to land these cutthroats by the dozens. I learned this technique a few years back from my brother, who in turn learned it from a friend of his. You start with a fly reel loaded up with backing. Then, you tie to the backing 3 or 4 colors of leaded line. Leaded line is simply a lead centered line covered in some type of cloth-like material and is available for a reasonable price at most fishing shops. It has the consistency of soft wire. Lengths of leaded line are measured in colors, which run approximately 4 to 5 yards each. So, for example, if you have two colors worth of line out, you can make an educated guess that your lure might be running four to six feet deep. Its a handy convention, and it makes keeping track of where the hits are coming from simple. Tie to the end of the leaded line 10 to 15 feet of six or eight pound monofilament. To the end of that tie a muddler’s minnow. I have found that there is no reason to tie a lighter leader to the end of the mono, just tie the fly directly onto the mono. As far as fly size goes, the fish did not seem to be particularly choosy. I fished muddlers ranging from size 4 all the way down to size 12. Over the course of the day I also found no evidence that larger muddlers produced larger fish or that smaller muddlers attracted smaller fish. For those of you who have never caught a Yellowstone Cutthroat, they are a beautiful fish indeed. When I was there, the fish had just finished spawning, and many still bore their spawning colors. Most of the fish we caught were in the 14" to 20" range, and each one put up a good fight. Many even took line. Yellowstone Lake is definitely a lake worth checking into if you enjoy the timelessness of nature and the serenity that it brings. The fact that the cutthroat trout are there, and will readily take a muddler’s minnow just adds to the experience. pictures at: http://home.earthlink.net/~reinkings Rick

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Question:

The Fly Fisherman is a true FF shop they can accomidate you for fresh and saltwater, they also have a store in Titusville (you can FF for redfish in the indian river and mosquito lagoon area). Dominic Pruitt Cary, NC (Relatives in Orlando area)

Response:

Dear Joseph                 There are two excellent fishing shops Jumbo Sports and The Fly Fisherman, they are both in the yellow pages. I visitedthem while i was on holiday. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have received a very interesting job offer in the Orlando area (zip 32750)… but I’m trying to check some things out before I commit myself. I know the fishing is good down there… but what’s the flt-fishing presence like? Any good shops in the area? Any tying supplies for freshwater? I may be headed down for an interview shortly… any place I should scope out while I’m there? Thanks! — Joe Ellis         o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |   TesserAct Studios  ()X  Darwin (;        Now on the Web at      |  Cincinnati, OH 45240  //~~~LL~~~~LL~  http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 | New Dimensions In Filk!   If you race a train to the crossing and the train gets there first,      the train wins. If you get there first, the train STILL wins.

Response:

I have received a very interesting job offer in the Orlando area (zip 32750)… but I’m trying to check some things out before I commit myself. I know the fishing is good down there… but what’s the flt-fishing presence like? Any good shops in the area? Any tying supplies for freshwater? I may be headed down for an interview shortly… any place I should scope out while I’m there? Thanks! — Joe Ellis         o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |   TesserAct Studios  ()X  Darwin (;        Now on the Web at      |  Cincinnati, OH 45240  //~~~LL~~~~LL~  http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 | New Dimensions In Filk!   If you race a train to the crossing and the train gets there first,      the train wins. If you get there first, the train STILL wins.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have received a very interesting job offer in the Orlando area (zip 32750)… but I’m trying to check some things out before I commit myself. I know the fishing is good down there… but what’s the flt-fishing presence like? Any good shops in the area? Any tying supplies for freshwater? I may be headed down for an interview shortly… any place I should scope out while I’m there? Thanks! — Joe Ellis         o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |   TesserAct Studios  ()X  Darwin (;        Now on the Web at      |  Cincinnati, OH 45240  //~~~LL~~~~LL~  http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 | New Dimensions In Filk!   If you race a train to the crossing and the train gets there first,      the train wins. If you get there first, the train STILL wins.

       One thing you’ll learn is that Orlado is just one area, there are many cities in the area and all are back to back so to speak. Check the phone book and don’t be put off by the city names. There is an Orvis shop in Winter Park, 2 Bitters shops, all kinds of mall shops, KMart sells fly fishing poppers, flys and some low level gear as does WallMart. Fern Park, Altamonte Springs, Winter Park are some of the towns heading north on either I-4 or 17/92 all really close together. There are numerous bait and tackle shops all over the place and Titusville, Cape Canaveral is also close. as to bait and tackle "The big Bass hole is about 6 blocks from my house in Sanford. It’s on lake Monrow (the St.John’s runs through it.) What you’ll need is an 8wt at least for bass and small saltwater possibly a 3wt for bream and a short 5wt for general streamside among trees etc. There are so many shops and sporting goods stores that I can’t begin to tell you about all of them.                                                             John Popp                                                          in Sanford Fl.

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Question:

Can anyone tell me the EASIEST way to tie my fly to the leader?  I’m new to the sport and have all thumbs!            Thanks,    Dee

Deanna, I didn’t see the original post, so this may knot be applicable if you’re into  freshwater trout: Being adverse to labor as I am, I install a loop (whip finnish) in the end of my fly lines. Or if a dealer installs it, I have had a short butt section attached by a nail not and loop the end of the butt. ( I don’t like the nail knot version much , experienced breakoffs on bigger fish.)  I assemble all my leaders with bimini twist (not an easy knot) end loops shortened by surgeons knots (easy knot) .  Anyway, this allows quick and easy loop to loop connections and fast leader changes. Get yourself a book on knots at the library. I found Lefty Krehs very handy. Best of luck, Gary C. "The only reason for time is so that everything doesn’t happen at once."  - Buckaroo Banzai

Response:

<< Can anyone tell me the EASIEST way to tie my fly to the leader?  I’m new to the sport and have all thumbs!            Thanks,    Dee I hate to be a spoil-sport, but wouldn’t it be easier for the lady to go to her nearest fly-shop and ask the nice gentleman (lady?) behind the counter.  A picture is worth ten thousand words. Dave L.

Spoil Sport! — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR

Response:

That trouble maker Charley Renn writes: << << Can anyone tell me the EASIEST way to tie my fly to the leader?  I’m  new to the sport and have all thumbs!            Thanks,    Dee I hate to be a spoil-sport, but wouldn’t it be easier for the lady to go to her nearest fly-shop and ask the nice gentleman (lady?) behind the counter.  A picture is worth ten thousand words. Dave L.

Spoil Sport! — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR Dave L.

Response:

Hi R.A., that sounds like the knot I use, the Running Half Tangle? — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me the EASIEST way to tie my fly to the leader?  I’m new to the sport and have all thumbs!            Thanks,    Dee Hi Dee, I use a really simple knot…can’t remember its name…will try to describe how to tie it: 1.  Thread the tippet through the eye of your fly, so that around a foot of tippet is sticking out from the hook eye. 2.  Let go of the fly for now. 3.  form a loop with the tippett material, about 4 inches in diameter 4.  tie an "overhand knot" around the tippet.  You should now have a "slip knot" and a 4" loop in your tippett. 5.  reach through this loop with your thumb and forefinger, grasping the fly further down on your line, and pull the fly back through the loop. 6.  Using your fingers to hold back the hackle, snug down the knot, removing the loop, and trim the tag end. This knot is quite strong, and I use it for all dries/wets/and nymphs from size 10 to 22.  For streamers or larger flies, I use an improved clinch knot.   Hope you can decipher the instructions! Regards, R.A. Skehan

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<< Can anyone tell me the EASIEST way to tie my fly to the leader?  I’m new to the sport and have all thumbs!            Thanks,    Dee

I hate to be a spoil-sport, but wouldn’t it be easier for the lady to go to her nearest fly-shop and ask the nice gentleman (lady?) behind the counter.  A picture is worth ten thousand words. Dave L.

Response:

Can anyone tell me the EASIEST way to tie my fly to the leader?  I’m new to the sport and have all thumbs!            Thanks,    Dee

Hi Dee, I use a really simple knot…can’t remember its name…will try to describe how to tie it: 1.  Thread the tippet through the eye of your fly, so that around a foot of tippet is sticking out from the hook eye. 2.  Let go of the fly for now. 3.  form a loop with the tippett material, about 4 inches in diameter 4.  tie an "overhand knot" around the tippet.  You should now have a "slip knot" and a 4" loop in your tippett. 5.  reach through this loop with your thumb and forefinger, grasping the fly further down on your line, and pull the fly back through the loop. 6.  Using your fingers to hold back the hackle, snug down the knot, removing the loop, and trim the tag end. This knot is quite strong, and I use it for all dries/wets/and nymphs from size 10 to 22.  For streamers or larger flies, I use an improved clinch knot.   Hope you can decipher the instructions! Regards, R.A. Skehan

Response:

Can anyone tell me the EASIEST way to tie my fly to the leader?  I’m new to the sport and have all thumbs!            Thanks,    Dee

Response:

Question:

Looking for a 3 wt. rod St Croix Imperials-any experience or comments?

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I have 3 St. Croix Rods (ledgend series) and I think they are a super value. They cast smoothly and have a modulous of graphite equivalent to more expensive rods.  I highly recommend them. Woollyworm

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I bought a 9′ 3-4 wt. St. Croix Imperial this summer for bluegill and am very pleased with it.  The rod is nicely finished and handles a 4wt FWF line very well.  I was originally concerned that a 4wt. might be too light to cast larger panfish poppers, but it casts up to a #6 popper or hair bug with no problems.  At $100 it would be hard to beat.   —

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Been dealing with St. Croix rods for seven years.  Excellent products for the dollar.  The Imperial is available in a 7′ 3/4 or 9′ 3/4.  Both are a high-modulus, relatively fast rods.  Current price as of 10/95 $110 and $120.  You want-I’ve got. E-mail

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St. Croix rods great deal for the money.  Been selling them for 7 years. 2 models avail. in Imperial 3wt.  7foot and 9foot Current prices are $110 and $120 respectively.  Interested? e-mail

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        I couldn’t agree more with the sentiments about St. Croix rods. If you want a Sage rod for half the price, buy a St. Croix Legend series. Lifetime warranty included. It’s not quite as nice a reel seat, but the fish, the fly, and the fly line don’t really care.

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writes: St Croix’s lightest rod is a 7′ 3/4 weight which IMO casts best with a 4 wt line.  It’s a very nice rod for the money.  You can’t get a better rod anywhere even if you spend twice the money or more.  Just too bad they use such a cheezy reel seat, but that’s one way to help keep the price down. IMO, St Croix is an excellent dollar value.

RJ, the "cheesy" reel seat you refer to is not necessarily there for higher profit, even the big names (Orvis, LL Bean, etc.) use aluminum bands on the small light rods, for the weight saving gained in not using wood/metal for a reel seat. I happen to like mine, even preferring the bands to the standard reel seat. Looks cool too. Frank Church Goshen, In

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Right on Jim, if you’ve read my earlier posts on St Croix rods, you know I believe they are the best buy on the market for the money. I have Sage rods to compare them with, and my little 7 footer holds it’s own against Sage. (maybe not in overall quality, but what do the bluegills care??) Frank Church Goshen, In

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: St Croix’s lightest rod is a 7′ 3/4 weight which IMO casts best with a 4 wt line.  It’s a very nice rod for the money.  You can’t get a better rod anywhere even if you spend twice the money or more.  Just too bad they use such a cheezy reel seat, but that’s one way to help keep the price down. IMO, St Croix is an excellent dollar value. RJ, the "cheesy" reel seat you refer to is not necessarily there for higher profit, even the big names (Orvis, LL Bean, etc.) use aluminum bands on the small light rods, for the weight saving gained in not using wood/metal for a reel seat. I happen to like mine, even preferring the bands to the standard reel seat. Looks cool too. Frank Church Goshen, In

 Frank, I agree with you.  I like slip rings, or cap and ring seats and put them  on all the light rods I build.  I was referring to the standard, oversized,  all aluminum, down-locking ones that St. Crx puts on most of their  rods except the Legend series.  I wasn’t aware that St. Crx was using slip  rings on their 7′ model yet/again/for the first time.  From visits to their  factory showroom it’s my impression that they’re a little inconsistent as to  what type of seat they put on that model.  It deserves a light slip ring  seat, not a clunky aluminum one.  - Rj

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Right on Woolworm, I think these rods are an excellent buy and am surprised that they don’t get more mention when someone is looking for a moderately priced rod. Maybe if they offered a "starter" package like Orvis, Sage, Cortland, et al. they might get a little more attention.

Ahhh, there’s the rub! The rods included in the Cortland starter package are made by St. Croix. And pretty durn nice they are, too. I fished with a Cortland 6wt for years, when I couldn’t afford to own five different rods. My wife uses it now, since I’ve aquired the St. Croix 4-5wt 4 piece pack rod. I LIKE IT! Last month I broke it in fishing for cutts in Rocky Mtn. National Park, and it exceeded my expectations of a travel rod. Primo! — And the Lord put aside his huge cigar…-F.Zappa

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After years of fly fishing for pan fish & bass in Nebraska (but not much fishing done in the past 8 years, or so), I’m looking forward to fly fishing for trout after moving to Wyoming.  I’ve been using a Fenwick, 4 piece-7 foot, fiberglass rod with a 6 wt, weight forward line.  The Fenwick must be 20-25 years old.  The reel is a Pflueger Medalist.   I lived in an area where no one fly fished and I haven’t kept up on the advancements in rods.  Since moving to Wyoming, I’ve taken a fly tying class which was great fun and I’m really looking forward to heading to the mountains.  I imagine that there is a vast improvement with the grahpite rods.  I’ve been looking at the St. Croix, Imperial rods in the 5/6 weight.  A couple of people that I’ve visited with suggested the travel rods. Others seem to think that two piece rods work a little better.  I thought since I already have a travel rod (even though it’s old and not state of the art) that perhaps I should buy the two piece rod, although, when hiking into the Cloud Peak wilderness area the two piece rod might be a little cumbersome.   Do you give up anything in going with the 4 piece rod?  Which rod length would be best, the 8′ 6" or the 9′?  I can’t imagine that 6 inches would make much of a difference but it must or they wouldn’t make the two lengths.  I’ll be doing mainly small stream and pond fishing and will probably be buying a float tube.   Thanks for any advice that you might offer to this fly fishing novice.   Would you mind e-mailing me in addition to posting to the group as my news server doesn’t get all of the messages. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

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Go with the 9 ft. rod. Travel rod if you truly intend air travel with it. therwise don’t bother

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After years of fly fishing for pan fish & bass in Nebraska (but not much fishing done in the past 8 years, or so), I’m looking forward to fly fishing for trout after moving to Wyoming.  I’ve been using a Fenwick, 4 piece-7 foot, fiberglass rod with a 6 wt, weight forward line.  The Fenwick must be 20-25 years old.  The reel is a Pflueger Medalist.  I lived in an area where no one fly fished and I haven’t kept up on the advancements in rods.  Since moving to Wyoming, I’ve taken a fly tying class which was great fun and I’m really looking forward to heading to the mountains.  I imagine that there is a vast improvement with the grahpite rods.  I’ve been looking at the St. Croix, Imperial rods in the 5/6 weight.  A couple of people that I’ve visited with suggested the travel rods. Others seem to think that two piece rods work a little better.  I thought since I already have a travel rod (even though it’s old and not state of the art) that perhaps I should buy the two piece rod, although, when hiking into the Cloud Peak wilderness area the two piece rod might be a little cumbersome.  Do you give up anything in going with the 4 piece rod?  Which rod length would be best, the 8′ 6" or the 9′?  I can’t imagine that 6 inches would make much of a difference but it must or they wouldn’t make the two lengths.  I’ll be doing mainly small stream and pond fishing and will probably be buying a float tube.  Thanks for any advice that you might offer to this fly fishing novice.  Would you mind e-mailing me in addition to posting to the group as my news server doesn’t get all of the messages. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

If you are planning on using a float tube the 9′ is better. St. Croix rods are one of the best buys for the money. You give up very little in a graphite 4 piece rod compared to a 2 piece.   Joel Axelrad

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Guy, I believe that my 5 wt Legend is 44 million mod. graphite, and I know its super fast.  I toss big stillwater streamer and such.  It needs a good deal of line to even load.  If you like fast the Legend is it, but in 2 -3 -4 wts I prefer slower actions, Sage LL, Powell SS and LG.  If you do too, look into the Imperial line. jg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -St  Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks.

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I own two St. Croix Imperial rods and they are very different from each other.  One of the rods is a 7 ft. 6 in. 4/5 wt and the other is a 9 ft. 6 in. 7/8 wt.  The 4/5 wt has a fast action, roll casts well, but can be difficult with short overhead or sidearm casts.  The 7/8 wt. has more of a moderate action.  I am not sure if the entire series of rods can be classified as having one particular action.  Don’t really know what type of graphite is used. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy

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   I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend    rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how    would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4    wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are    appreciated. Thanks.    Guy    Search, Read, Post to Usenet My wife has the St. Croix Imperial 5/6 wt. 8′6" 4-piece.  I’d call it a softer, "medium action" rod (compared with my Sage RPL 6 wt.).  It casts nicely, and the price was right. John Y. Liu via HP200LX palmtop Net-Tamer V 1.06H For HP100/200 & OG700 – Registered

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I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy

    I don’t know the type of graphite St.Croix uses but I do own 2 Imperials, a 6-7 and  7-8, they are both medium fast. I also own a Cortland 3-4 which is a St.Croix blank and it is medium.    My stepson owns a Legend, its on the fast side of medium fast and a bit lighter than the Imperial line. His Legend is also a 7-8 by 9 ft. 6in. as is my Imperial, so it makes a reasonable comparison.   My son owns a6-7 Imperial also but its an earlyer model than ours and"softer". My origanal6-7 was the same way(now broken).These early ones are gray in color and the later are brown, they do not have the same action.   We also own Sage rods in our family and St. Croix’s work well but they require more effort and the line control is less precise. Sage’s are great and unconditinaly guarateed for life and a guy can be in the "Discovery" series for very few dollars above the Legend, check it out!                       DAVE G.

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I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy

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Question:

I’M NOT SURE MY LAST MESSAGE WAS SENT PROPERLY.  I’M NEW TO THIS INFERNAL CONTRAPTION THEY CALL A COMPUTER!   I AM GOING TO PANAMA FOR A FEW MONTHS AND NEED ADVICE ON TACKLE AND LOCATIONS FOR SALT WATER FLY FISHING.  I KNOW THAT THE MOUTHS OF THE RIVERS HAVE TARPON AND GATUN LAKE HAS PEACOCK BASS.  ANY ADVICE WOULD BE WELCOME.

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: I’M NOT SURE MY LAST MESSAGE WAS SENT PROPERLY.  I’M NEW TO THIS INFERNAL : CONTRAPTION THEY CALL A COMPUTER!   : I AM GOING TO PANAMA FOR A FEW MONTHS AND NEED ADVICE ON TACKLE AND : LOCATIONS FOR SALT WATER FLY FISHING.  I KNOW THAT THE MOUTHS OF THE : RIVERS HAVE TARPON AND GATUN LAKE HAS PEACOCK BASS.  ANY ADVICE WOULD BE : WELCOME. I was born there, but I don’t remember much since I moved away when I was young. I would be interested to here how you did when you get back. Someday I hope to return. BTW, typing in all caps is hard on the eyes and difficult to read. It is also considered shouting in the computer world. I just wanted to let you know before somebody gets on your case.  ;-) Good Luck! Jon Porter

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are very pleased to announce the all new, FISHINTERNET AUSTRALIA http://www.fishnet.com.au/ This internet service is dedicated to the Australian recreational fishing scene. Sections cover all aspects of fishing in Australia with excellent information resources, fishing reports from around the country, full directory of all tackle shops, marine dealers, charters, guides, resorts etc. Please let us know what you think of this new service. Regards, David Dryden         Fishinternet Australia         http://www.fishnet.com.au/ I checked your page. It looks good. Can you help me with advice on fly-fishing for Barramundi in the Cairns / Port Douglas area, or even further north into Cape York. I’ve heard this is something of a new frontier in salt water fly fishing and that the Barramunid is excellent quarry. I will be in the area for 2 weeks in September. I’d like to know about seasons, flies, techniques, guides, etc. Thanks. Christopher Payne. Can you assure me of the availability of that nectar of the gods known

as Crown Lager Beer, its to die for. CL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are very pleased to announce the all new, FISHINTERNET AUSTRALIA http://www.fishnet.com.au/ This internet service is dedicated to the Australian recreational fishing scene. Sections cover all aspects of fishing in Australia with excellent information resources, fishing reports from around the country, full directory of all tackle shops, marine dealers, charters, guides, resorts etc. Please let us know what you think of this new service. Regards, David Dryden         Fishinternet Australia         http://www.fishnet.com.au/

I checked your page. It looks good. Can you help me with advice on fly-fishing for Barramundi in the Cairns / Port Douglas area, or even further north into Cape York. I’ve heard this is something of a new frontier in salt water fly fishing and that the Barramunid is excellent quarry. I will be in the area for 2 weeks in September. I’d like to know about seasons, flies, techniques, guides, etc. Thanks. Christopher Payne.

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We are very pleased to announce the all new, FISHINTERNET AUSTRALIA http://www.fishnet.com.au/ This internet service is dedicated to the Australian recreational fishing scene. Sections cover all aspects of fishing in Australia with excellent information resources, fishing reports from around the country, full directory of all tackle shops, marine dealers, charters, guides, resorts etc. Please let us know what you think of this new service. Regards, David Dryden          Fishinternet Australia          http://www.fishnet.com.au/

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Question:

My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti?

IMO, no, its a very good vice for the money unless of course he has the money to buy the more expensive vice. (Regals ARE nice) Then just on principal he should get the more exensive vice. After all this is fly fishing <vbseg. Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise.

Yes he does I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.

If you don’t want to use the rotary feature (I don’t), just tighten the rotary mechanism against the post and it will lock. Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my

Thompson Pro? You’re just rationalizing Wayne Knight Marietta GA                                              

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writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him
out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does
need a new vise.
I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does
not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to
my Thompson Pro?

I’ve used a Renzetti Traveller for more than three years now and love it! It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. I guess the locking could be an handicap, but I’ve never missed it for my tying (mostly saltwater and salmon). And it travels real well! Inge

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: It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, : except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. A good vice should last a lifetime, I always say. (Sorry, couldn’t resist…) — BW Brad Williams —

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… I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro?

You can in fact, adjust the drag (to the point of locking) on the renzetti’s rotation using the 2 friction wheels. It’s not the most convenient system though. Personally, I use the traveller as my only vise. I do travel alot and often bring my tying case with me. The size and weight of the traveller are great for this. Otherwise, the traveller is a great vise for the money. Good jaws, large range and very functional, at 1/3rd the price of the rest of the renzetti line. rick

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I’ve used everything from the Thompson A vise through the Renzetti, HMH, and Regal, and I’ve ended up with the Regal…it’s an absolutely foolproof vise,provides resting place for the left hand, is perfectly rotatable, esp. if Ingeset it up horizontally, can be used right-= or left- handed, has interchangeable heads, and can be had for a reasonable price.  The other vises are wonderful, too, but nothing beats the Regal in my view (for what it’s worth), and I’ve been tying flies for more than fifty years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise. I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro? I’ve used a Renzetti Traveller for more than three years now and love it! It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. I guess the locking could be an handicap, but I’ve never missed it for my tying (mostly saltwater and salmon). And it travels real well! Inge

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I have responded several times to questions about the Renzetti Traveller. It is wonderful.  The issue of the rotation not locking is a non issue. What makes the Renzetti system so nice is that the rotation of the hook shaft is central, due to the offset jaws.  Therefore, there is no tendency for the vice to rotate under load.  The other thing that is very nice about the Traveller that is not true of the higher priced Renzettis; it will rotate in both directions.  This is very useful if you tie ribbing reverse-wrapped over palmered hackle, such as in a Spey salmon or steelhead fly.   Crashjibe

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writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise.

I have both a Regal and a Renzetti Traveller. I love the Renzetti. It works very well, is very well designed, and weighs only 8 ounces! Steve Rosenblum

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I’m relatively new to tying.  After breaking my beginner $13 Indian vise, I bought a Renzetti Traveller.  I really like the Traveller–but admitedly I don’t have much experience for comparisons.   By the way, you CAN lock the rotation by increasing the drag sufficiently, although it’s not overwhelmingly convenient.

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The Traveller is the BEST vise for someone upgrading from a beginners-type vise. The price is right, and it will be years before he outgrows the vise and feels he needs a more sophisticated one. And then he will have one for traveling and one for the home base!!!

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My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise. I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro? — Keep your stick on the ice.

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I really enjoy tying with mine, it’s all I need in a vise.  

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I really enjoy tying with mine, it’s all I need in a vise.  

Have you tried a Regal vise yet?  I have an Inex (their cheapest model) and I love it.  Sometimes I wish it were a rotary, but that’s only once and a while.  The spring loaded clamping method they use is really neat.  Just work the handle and insert a hook. One problem though.  If you don’t put the hook in enough, it may pop out and chip the tip of the jaws.  I did that twice then sent it back.  They fixed it for free, but made it clear that the next time I do that it will cost $25 for a new set of jaws.  Plus I have kids, so I have to find every hook I drop.  One flew over 10 feet out into the hall.  Thank goodness hooks are made out of ferrous (sp?) metal. I was wondering if other cam-type vises do this too?   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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Question:

Hi. I will be going to the Argentinean Patagonia (Neuquen, Rio Negro, and Chubut provinces) this coming January. Does anybody have any suggestions regarding fly patterns to try? What about places to go? Thanks. Daniel Martinez

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Hi. I will be going to the Argentinean Patagonia (Neuquen, Rio Negro, and Chubut provinces) this coming January. Does anybody have any suggestions regarding fly patterns to try? What about places to go? Thanks. Daniel Martinez

Take a look at the lastest issue of "Outside" magazine.  There is an article on flyfishing Patagonia.   — John Fereira Pleasanton, CA

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Question:

I am very interested in taking a flyfishing trip to Montana and would very much appreciate any info on when and where to go. I am considering driving up during the late May-late June time frame. I have primarily fished in WA on stillwaters (beaver ponds,etc.) and would like suggestions as to which rivers might offer the best access for wading as I don’t have access to a boat. I would be interested in hiring a guide for a couple of days; if anyone has either personal experience with or knowlege of any reputable guides I would be most appreciative.   Email response is OK for the sake of bandwidth. Thanks in advance. Kelly Van Arsdel

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I am very interested in taking a flyfishing trip to Montana and would very much appreciate any info on when and where to go. I am considering driving up during the late May-late June time frame. I have primarily fished in WA on stillwaters (beaver ponds,etc.) and would like suggestions as to which rivers might offer the best access for wading as I don’t have access to a boat. I would be interested in hiring a guide for a couple of days; if anyone has either personal experience with or knowlege of any reputable guides I would be most appreciative.

    Late May to late June, eh?  Well, a couple of good smaller rivers that should be in pretty good shape then are Rock Creek, the Big Hole and Beaverhead Rivers, and probably the upper reaches of the Jefferson.  I’d suggest going mid-June or so, that way you can probably wander into the salmon fly hatch on one of those streams, which is a gas.  I personnally am partial to the upper stretches of the Big Hole, but Rock Creek, while it still has water in it, might be a better bet.    All of these waters are in western MT, btw.                     Scott

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| | I am very interested in taking a flyfishing trip to Montana and would very | much appreciate any info on when and where to go. I am considering driving | up during the late May-late June time frame. I have primarily fished in WA | on stillwaters (beaver ponds,etc.) and would like suggestions as to which | rivers might offer the best access for wading as I don’t have access to a | boat. I would be interested in hiring a guide for a couple of days; if anyone | has either personal experience with or knowlege of any reputable guides I | would be most appreciative.  I’ve only been up there once, but had a great time.  I would suggest thinking about july or august.  June may be a little early with runnoff and conditions.  Also, if you havent been to Yellowstone, you may want to go there instead….fly into Jackson Hole and then go north and fish the madison, yellowstone, or others.  Or, you could fly into one of towns north of yellowstone park in montana(livingston or boseman).  Then you would have the option of going in several directions.  However, the yellowstone park is worth visiting.  Also, if they’re rising the yellowstone river ten or twenty miles above old faithful is great. drex

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