Question:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband.

In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

In my case I paid for the setting and we used a stone she had (grandmothers, perhaps? I don’t recall and it doesn’t matter). I didn’t get the setting back; she never offered and I never asked because I didn’t want it. The setting was indeed a gift from me to her so I feel I have no claims on it. I would not have accepted it if she had offered it to me. My ring was a custom piece of jewelry we picked out together, though I paid for it so technically it wasn’t a gift from her. I gave it back to her without thinking twice about it. The fewer things I have in my life that remind me of her the better.

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..

EVERYTHING comes from da man, silly girl!    (If you don’t believe me, ask Andre or Ronnie44dd.   Whattas a matter with you, anyway)?    :-)

Response:

Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

If he is this bad, you can’t leave your children to his care, I know it is tempting to get revenge on him but think of your children, they will suffer more if you went to prison.  Get out, and get your children out.  There are organisations for abused wives, get one on your side and have them help you work this out. Mandy

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!! He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

The real abuse here is the abuse that you did to yourself by staying so long.  I hope you can learn to love yourself as much as you deserve. bogey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Leaving ======= General guidelines for leaving a spouse in the US. So you decided to end the marriage and are leaving the house. When it comes time to leave, there are certain things you should do in a certain order, to avoid confrontations with or violence from the spouse. Here’s how to do it. Some rules to follow when doing all these things: – Be polite when working with your spouse – Be fair. Take only 1/2 of what you both own. – It may be a good idea to buy a cassette recorder and put it in your shirt pocket when talking with your spouse. This is not usually admissable in court but it will give you some leverage against the spouse if they are acting loony, violent, or unfair. If the judge asks "Do you have proof your spouse is a loony?" you can mention the tapes. – If you think the spouse will get violent, call the police. Hide around the corner and when they come to the house, then go to the house. Tell the police you need them to watch your spouse while you pack. – If the spouse attacks you (even if a wife attacks a man) MAKE A POLICE REPORT. If you don’t have proof (a police report), it will not help you. Finding an apartment Make your budget. Find out the net amount of your paycheck you bring home each month (after taxes, you can’t spend the taxes, can you?). Now subtract rent, car insurance, phone, utilities, gas, food, clothes, entertainment, and any other expenses you can think of. If you have money left over, you are doing good. If not, find places to trim expense, like don’t go to the movies, cancel cable/satellite, don’t go out to eat, eat in instead, buy a cheaper car. Now find a cheap apartment and sign a lease. Packing up – You will need to get your names off credit cards VERY quickly, that means moving out first. – Try to pack your most valuable things first, like cash, life insurance policies, stock policies, records for your bank accounts, IRAs, and other retirement accounts. Make sure you pack some pens, pencils and a notebook, you will need these later. If you have joint accounts, take the papers, copy them at the library or somewhere else, then return them to the house. – Try to pack when the other spouse is not there, like when they are not at work, or when they are shopping. Have a friend along with a video camera in case they come home early. Hide your car around the block (it could be seen down the street so don’t hide it there) or use a friends car that is not well known. Pack your stuff in the friend’s car then transfer it to your car in a place the spouse does not go. – Remember to pack a suit, you will need it for court proceedings. Assets ====== Decide what possessions to take with you. Generally the state will divide up all the assets so each spouse gets an equal share based on the current sale value of the asset (like if you sold it at a garage sale). The person who gets the house gets the value of the equity of the house, so they will get a lot less other things. Equity is the assessed value of the house minus the loan amount. It is NOT the value of the house plus the amount you spent to improve it. Generally the state allows you to keep what you had before the marriage, and allows you to keep gifts that were only to you, but this is still part of the "equal share" that the two of you get. Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. DON’T DO THE NEXT STEPS UNTIL YOU’RE ALL PACKED UP and moved out. Separating Finances The basic finance separation is in several groups: – Assets – Bank accounts – Credit cards/debit card – Retirement accounts – Loans/mortgages 1. Bank accounts First, get your own account, have the statements mailed to work or a trusted friend’s house. You don’t want these new statements discovered by the soon to be ex (STBX). When that is final, figure out what half of the cash assets would be (include all money markets, savings and checking accounts, not retirement or IRA accounts). Take half the cash and put it into your new account. Take your name off the accounts if possible. If you need their signature to do this, call a lawyer and find out if there’s another way to do this. 2. Credit Cards People often run up huge debts on credit cards in anger. First, try to take your name off all credit cards. I was the primary holder of a credit card, which meant I could put my wife’s name on it, and take it off. She couldn’t do anything. If you’re not the primary holder, AND you can’t get your name off a credit card, talk to a lawyer and find out what can be done. If you can’t do that, lower the limit on every credit card to the minimum. You should be able to do this alone, but then again the spouse could raise it up again by themselves. Talk to the CC company to find out who can do what. Try to freeze the cards so no one can use them and tell the CC company you’ve seen suspicious activity on the cards or you think you’re identity has been stolen. As a last resort, cancel the cards if necessary, but TELL THE SPOUSE. You will look bad to the judge if you don’t tell them. Send them a letter so you have paper proof that you told them. 3. Retirement accounts Just start by taking your IRA papers with you. You can sort it all out later in court. Let the other spouse keep their retirement account. 4. Loans/mortgages I don’t know how these are handled. But if you keep your name on the loan you ARE responsible for it, whether you are divorced, separated or not. Try to get your name off the mortgage, but NOT off the title to the house. This is so the other can’t default on the mortgage and ruin your credit. The Car ======= If you each have a car, take the one that you use the most. If you have one car between you, the working spouse will generally get the car. Should you buy a new one? Generally, no, unless you just purchased a brand new car in the past year. Calculate the net worth of the car will help you. Net worth=Value of the car (get it from Kelly Blue Book on the web) – any loan outstanding. Here’s an example. Car A: bought 2 years ago, valued at $15,000, loan left is $13,000, so net worth is $2000. Basically, you have $13,000 in loans to pay off. If you can’t afford it, get a used car worth less than $13,000, say around $7000. Try to make small payments. This will cause you to pay more interest over the life of the loan, but you really need the cash right now. Car B: bought 5 years ago, valued at $5000, no loan outstanding. Net worth is $5000. This is the best deal, since you have no car payment in this case. Car C: new car bought last year, valued at $24,000, loan left: $25,000, net worth=-$1000. Even though this has a net worth, you still have $25,000 left in loans to pay. This is a bad deal because if you sell the car you will still have to pay $1000 to cover the loan and you will not get any money back because it has a negative net worth. Your best bet is to get a $7000 car, pay the extra $1000. Insurance for the used car will be less than for the new car anyway. What will make you look good to the judge: – If you are fair to the other spouse. (Divide assets equally. Don’t take their favorite baseball card collection just to be mean.) – If you don’t hit them, threaten them or damage their property. – If you don’t show bizarre behavior (like damaging the other’s property) – If you keep the spouse informed, like when you cancel the credit cards. – Getting the kids out of a violent home. (You must have PROOF of this violence as a recording, or police report.) What will make you look bad: – Not going to counseling when the spouse does. – Being unfair. – Being angry in court. – If you have a serious illness, like cancer, it will really reduce your chances to get the kids. – If you have a serious illness, like depression, which is not being treated, you will have a lesser chance to get the kids. – Doing drugs. – Having a police record. – Being known as the "one who’s always screaming" by the neighbors. – Having boy/girlfriends before the divorce is final. – Trying to hide assets from the spouse. – Having an affair during the marriage. (Shows lack of commitment.) – Not being real involved with the kids. – If you don’t have a job. – If you have trouble holding a job. Abuse claims Filing a false abuse claim is now illegal in some states, and it is even enforced sometimes. Find out the status of false abuse claims, perhaps by calling the police department. — "Tis better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST

ME!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

Response:

"DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

IF your children want to stay in the house regardless of the fact that he is mean to you then something is wrong. IF you want to stay in the house regardless of what HE is doing to YOU then there is something VERY WRONG!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these! SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

Huh?  How can you even think this about the man you just previously described? I think *you* would be abusive by letting him near your kids. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe he is abusing his children by not being here

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

Response:

I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!!  He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

I can not understand why you take all that shit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Once again, here’s the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of "abuse": Main Entry: abuse      Pronunciation: &-’by

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All that said they sure run well and only time will tell if all those moving parts really cause that much trouble. I suppose the timing belt is the big issue but I don’t see any dire warnings in my shop manual about crashed valves. From what I see the oil change is just the cost of the filter and a few bucks worth of oil (every 100 hours). Since I was burning over a pint of oil an hour that TCW3 adds up pretty fast. The reality is, if a fuel injected 2 stroke takes a crap offshore you probably ain’t fixin it either. I’ll take my chances. Being able to idle a mile up the canal and not stall in a cloud of smoke when I get close to the dock makes it all worthwhile. BTW Mercury 40-60 HPs are shipped "wet" and horizontal so leaking must not be a problem. Mine was ready to start when I opened the crate. What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go.

I have a carbureted 2 stroke – no computer or electronics to crap out anytime.  7 years old and still going with only spark plug and lower gearcase lube changes.

Response:

Suzuki just came out with a 140 HP Four Stroke that weighs less than a 150 Two Stroke and has equal performance.  I think it was said earlier that you shouldn’t pull info out of your ass.  If you don’t know the facts, shut the F^ck up.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass)

Where do these weight figures come from – a brochure or website?  Ha !!  I trust those about as much as I trust Bill Clinton !!! I bet they weighed those 4 stroke motors dry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

Response:

Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor.

Interesting that on the same web page, the 4 stroke Yamaha 30 weighs 198 lb. My guess, the 4 stroke 40 is listed for 181 lb with short shaft, manual start, manual tilt. The 4 stroke 30 comes only with long shaft, electric start, power trim&tilt, same as the 2 stroke 40 hp. Mod.

Response:

I bet they weighed those 4 stroke motors dry.

Yup that 3 quarts of oil and 24 oz of 90w will really pack on the pounds. Me and the truck driver picked up my 60EFI Big Foot and it was still in the crate.

Response:

What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go. For most weekend boaters, the 2 stroke outboard is the more long term economic choice even if gas costs $2.50 per gallon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

All that said they sure run well and only time will tell if all those moving parts really cause that much trouble. I suppose the timing belt is the big issue but I don’t see any dire warnings in my shop manual about crashed valves. From what I see the oil change is just the cost of the filter and a few bucks worth of oil (every 100 hours). Since I was burning over a pint of oil an hour that TCW3 adds up pretty fast. The reality is, if a fuel injected 2 stroke takes a crap offshore you probably ain’t fixin it either. I’ll take my chances. Being able to idle a mile up the canal and not stall in a cloud of smoke when I get close to the dock makes it all worthwhile. BTW Mercury 40-60 HPs are shipped "wet" and horizontal so leaking must not be a problem. Mine was ready to start when I opened the crate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What happens when you are 10 miles offshore and the timing belt breaks on one of these fancy new 4 strokes?  Do the valves get squashed? You may not have to mix oil with gas, but you have to change the oil and oil filter every so often.  How much will this cost?  Yamaha oil filters cost $25 to $35 a piece ! 4 strokes have more moving parts than 2 strokes – more parts to break and more expensive annual maintenance.  How much does a valve adjustment cost on one of these new 4 strokes? Many of the smaller (under 25 hp) 4 stroke outboards cannot be laid on their side because the oil sump is not sealed.  For someone like me who uses a portable 15 hp outboard on an inflatable which is deflated after every use, the 2 stroke is the only way to go.

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One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info.

My guess is this: the purveyors of such possibilities don’t yet see the market willing to pay the excessive premium they charge for their higher horsepower four stroke engines. Relative to what they’d like to charge for a four stroke 175, the two strokes of that power are inexpensive. The guys who are buying the 200-225 four strokers don’t seem to mind giving away the excessive bucks. — Harry Krause – - A red is any son-of-a-bitch who wants thirty cents when we’re paying twenty five. – John Steinbeck

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Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

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Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

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A hundred pounds out there on the end of that 12 inch jackplate on that Gambler is a little different than a gas tank in the middle of the boat.  That 4 stroke won’t work very well if it is underwater.  

Del, on the other hand, the guy with that setup doesn’t think twice about putting 200 lbs. of batteries right up against the transom, nor does he hesitate to hit the fill switch on his livewell, adding another 200 lbs. of water to the rear third of the boat.  Moving one battery forward will largely offset the penalty of a heavier motor. — Rich Stern www.nitroowners.com – The Nitro and Tracker Owners Web Site www.mypontoon.com – The Pontoon Boat Web Site

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Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

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So, what is your explanation of why there are no 150-175 HP 4strokes? del cecchi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even better,  a 2002  Yamaha 40 HP 2 stroke weights 194 lbs,  and a 2002 Yamaha 40 HP 4 stroke weights 181 lbs. In other words, the Yamaha 4 stroke weights 13 lbs. LESS than the Yamaha 2 stroke in the 40 HP motor. Try checking Yamaha’s web site and the specifications pages for their motors. Just bought one and I won’t be toting around that heavy 2 cycle oil anymore either. People need to check the web  sites of these manufacturers before they start throwing out fantasy figures about weight problems with 4 strokes.  (or of course just continue to  pull figures out of your ass) Let’s see, A Yamaha 50 2 stroke weighs 194 lbs. Mercury 50 2 stroke weighs 199 lbs. Mercury 50 4 stroke weighs 236 lbs. Honda 50 4stroke weighs 202 lbs. Not exactly 80 to 100 lbs.  In fact the Honda is a whopping 8 lbs heaver than the Yamaha and 3 lbs heaver than the Merc. Yes, it appears that 4 stroke engines are the future motor.  But keep in mind that 4 stroke are heavier than the old 2 stroke.  In the 40 to 50 hp they can range from 80 to over a 100 pounds more than the 2 stroke. Interesting fact that I did not know which I receive from an old boat and motor mechanic. If you have an older boat, let’s say in the era of 1985, the boat plate may say it will take up to a 45 hp engine.  These boats were rated for 2 stroke not 4 stoke as there were not many 4 strokes around then. Putting a 4 stroke on one of these older boats will take the rear weight up almost a 100 lbs.

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I imagine bass boat guys will show up at the 4 stroke dealer when their bans 2 strokes on the lakes. I hope the manufacturers are ready for them.

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| says… | | One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to | replace my aging Yamahas??? | | pontificated: | | # Hello Enn, | # | # Thanks for the info. | | | | — | 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. | To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address. | | ______ | Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = | http://www.binaries.net | | Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 | stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? | | del cecchi | | | | I think this whole over blown ,over weight thing goes out the window as | soon as you load up your coolers full of beer and and extra friend nad | top off the gas tank!! | | I remember buying a 14speed bike (with a 3lb frame) and weighing | everythin in grams to be real light. As soon as I filled my water | bottles, that theory went out the window!! A hundred pounds out there on the end of that 12 inch jackplate on that Gambler is a little different than a gas tank in the middle of the boat.  That 4 stroke won’t work very well if it is underwater.   — Del Cecchi   Personal Opinions Only

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info. — 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address.

______ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION =

http://www.binaries.net Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? del cecchi

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One exception.  Why can’t I buy a pair of 4-stroke 150s or 175s  to replace my aging Yamahas??? pontificated: # Hello Enn, # # Thanks for the info. — 23′ Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC. To Mail – Remove the Bee Bees from my address. ______ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net Because the biggest market for 150 to 175 hp is Bass Boats and a 4 stroke 150/175 would be too heavy? del cecchi

I think this whole over blown ,over weight thing goes out the window as soon as you load up your coolers full of beer and and extra friend nad top off the gas tank!! I remember buying a 14speed bike (with a 3lb frame) and weighing everythin in grams to be real light. As soon as I filled my water bottles, that theory went out the window!!

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Hello Enn, Thanks for the info. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Same in all European countries. Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

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Same in all European countries. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

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Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. He states that 2 stroke motors are on the way out and that 4 strokes are going to be taking over the US market. I know this will be the fact in the United States but I can’t say much about other countries. Keep this in mind when buying a used or new boat. — Bill Kiene

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Question:

In little to know wind, you’ll be ok unless you’ve got a big bimini or hardtop to act as a sail.  I had a 28lb electric on the stern of a 20′ CC of 4000#s that was adequate in very light wind.  The light thrust was slow in starting or stopping, but worked fine once the mass got moving.  It was a high sided boat, so wind was a big problem if more than 10 knots.  Bow mounts are a lot easier to control and track better, so that would be preferrable to a stern mount.  I would have preferred a Bow mount of about 50 lbs, but did not want to incurr the cost of extra batteries and a new motor.  I already had the 28# motor from an earlier boat. BillS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone used an engine mounted trolling motor on a boat of at least 19′? I have a 19′ cc fishing boat that usually has three people aboard and I wonder if one 55lb thrust motor is anywhere enough to move the boat or should I double up with the motors. I’m looking at the Navigator dual 110 (2 motors). Any info will be appreciated. Thanks,,,Ted

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Has anyone used an engine mounted trolling motor on a boat of at least 19′? I have a 19′ cc fishing boat that usually has three people aboard and I wonder if one 55lb thrust motor is anywhere enough to move the boat or should I double up with the motors. I’m looking at the Navigator dual 110 (2 motors). Any info will be appreciated. Thanks,,,Ted

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I’m interested in this subject too, although I have a lowly 14′ bowrider.  I would very much like to have a trolling motor, since 90% of what we do is fishing, but to put one on the bow would impair the little space available, and there is no room on the stern. We normally boat on small lakes with little to no current. — "Stay calm.  Be brave.  Wait for the signs." regards, Frank Johansen Aurora, Ontario

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone used an engine mounted trolling motor on a boat of at least 19′? I have a 19′ cc fishing boat that usually has three people aboard and I wonder if one 55lb thrust motor is anywhere enough to move the boat or should I double up with the motors. I’m looking at the Navigator dual 110 (2 motors). Any info will be appreciated. Thanks,,,Ted

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There are some who equate 12-15# of thrust to one horsepower, although the two units of measure aren’t really the same and that number can sure be argued with. If a 3 hp outboard is enough to do what you want in the trolling department, it might work. They are quiet and inobtrusive. Look at a Minn Kota.  http://www.minnkotamotors.com/ This unit sure wouldn’t get you home on that boat in the event your main engine goes out unless you have ideal water/current/wind conditions and a LOT of batteries.

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Question:

Try Beaver Lake. You won’t catch any trophys but you will catch all of the Golden trout and Cutthroats you want and will probably have the whole lake and creek to yourselves.  I went up there August 95 and the last hour I fished I caught a trout on every single cast.   Like I said there not big but they are plenty.  The biggest one I caught was probably 14 or 15 inches. Take I-70 west from Denver to Beaver creek(yes, the ski resort) Get a day parking pass at the gaurd post(free) and park in town.  Then follow the creek about 1 hour and 45 min. to the lake.  You can go up past the inlet and fish the creek too.  E-mail me for more info if you want have fun!!!!!!!

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        I’m returning to Colorado for a while (I moved to Oregon), and am wondering if someone could point me toward a few good fishing spots. The Colorado Angling Guide by Chuck Fothegill & Bob Sterling lists about every place to fish in Colorado.  

With all due respect, this book lists those places to avoid.   TimW

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Hi!         I’m returning to Colorado for a while (I moved to Oregon), and am wondering if someone could point me toward a few good fishing spots.  Since I just learned to flyfish in Oregon, I’ve never had the chance to back in Colorado.  I know the state quite well otherwise, and am willing to drive/hike to get to a good spot. Thanks! A.Davis

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Just returned from a week in Frisco.  There is a catch and release stream just south of Breckenridge (about 5 miles away) that I did very well on. It’s the upper Blue River.  The town of Breckenridge made a private purchase of 750 Brown trout from a private hatchery in Boulder and the fishing was great. Most of the areas around there are catch and release, and according to the guy at Walmart in Frisco – Lake Dillon doesn’t have a lot of fish.  Of course I didn’t try the inlet from the upper Blue to Lake Dillon for some of the browns that might have made their way there. — John Harvey remove xx to email – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of some good flyfishing areas in Colorado with cabins nearby? Thanks, Teri

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Does anyone know of some good flyfishing areas in Colorado with cabins nearby? Thanks, Teri

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Question:

Thanks for the URL correction guys. I spend too much time in DOS. BTW the illustrations will be in it within the wek and more to come. Thanx again Bob S — Bob Sheedy Arctic Fire Software Home of THE FISHING LOG and MASTER ANGLER http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm

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Lake Fly Fishing Instructional HTML The first in a series of HTML Instructional Pages is now ready for your viewing. These are in depth segments from the Canadian Waters School of Fly Fishing Manual. They pertain mostly to Lake Fly Fishing and the forage involved and deal mainly with the Prairie/ high prairie regions but the information is valuable anywhere. One segment is available each month and this months features Mayflies. There is no password required and no charges for viewing. This is for public information and education. Look off : http:\www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm Locate the Lake Fly Fishing Instructional Pages by Bob Sheedy, the author of the manual. Many other informative articles, software and fly patterns available as well.

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= Lake Fly Fishing Instructional HTML =

This URL is needs correcting: Look off : http:\www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm =

Try http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm Locate the Lake Fly Fishing Instructional Pages by Bob Sheedy, the author=

 of — = =9F Len =9F —– Leonard Campbell                                                                                                =

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Hi Dave, Here is the URL, which I just used.  = http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm  Go to =               Bob Sheedy’s               Stillwater Fly               Fishing               Instructional http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/mayfly.htm and enjoy the descriptions. Regards, — = =9F Len =9F —– Leonard Campbell                                                                                                = PO Box 972,                                                                                                                     = 168 Old Center Harbor Rd         = Center Harbor, NH 03226

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Question:

Any recommendations on lightweight float tubes? I have a conventional one but am looking for one to backpack into the MT backcountry lakes that I am  fortunate to live near. I’ve rigged this one on a aluminum frame but anything 3 miles it gets a bit heavy. Caddis makes an ultralight – basic tube w/ no pockets or back. Is this worth the weight savings. Or should I get the Caddis U-Boat? Any thoughts on quality or cost? Thanks.

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Any recommendations on lightweight float tubes?

Even my big ol’ Caddis is backpackable, at least for short distances. Aside from that, spend a little more than you can afford, you’ll be glad you did. Anglerboy

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(John Kelley) writes: Caddis makes an ultralight – basic tube w/ no pockets or back. Is this worth the weight savings. Or should I get the Caddis U-Boat?

My first tube was a caddis ultralight.  It had no backrest and thus only one inflatable compartment.  Two compartments is minimum required by law to use on many lakes in both CA and OR. Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Question:

I am planning a trip to Montana in mid to late September and could use some advice on fly selection. My  girfriend will be fishing the Yellowstone, Madison, and in the park. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!

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I am planning a trip to Montana in mid to late September and could use some advice on fly selection. My girlfriend and I will be fishing the Yellowstone, Madison, and some in Yellowstone Park. I would like to tie as many flies as possible before the trip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!

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I am planning a trip to Montana in mid to late September and could use some advice on fly selection. My girlfriend and I will be fishing the Yellowstone, Madison, and some in Yellowstone Park. I would like to tie as many flies as possible before the trip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!

Hi Tim, In September, in particular, the browns are quite active preparing to spawn. Preparing for this results in two activities: gorging lots of food to build up necessary fat deposits for spawning, and protecting their spawning lies from predators. Both activities result in excellent streamer fishing from September to November. Be prepared with a selection of Muddlers, Woolly Buggers, Matuka and Woolhead Sculpins, and Zonker patterns, to name a few of the more locally popular flies. September is also a fine time here for insects. Hydropsyche caddis are still emerging heavily on all the rivers (size 14-16, pale green & tan), as well as the late emergence of Rhyacophila (the "Bright Green Caddis Larva," size #14-16, olive adult). Baetis become the dominant mayfly (olive, size #18-22 with smaller sizes more typical of the fall emergence), with Mahogany duns (brown, size 14) providing late season action for the larger mayflies, especially on the Gallatin River. There are lesser hatches which are also "locally" important on some rivers, including Tricos (Madison), Attenella (upper Yellowstone), etc. I’d also suggest that you contact local fly shops for the area you’ll be visiting, including Jacklin’s in West Yellowstone and Montana Troutfitters or The River’s Edge in Bozeman. They can provide you with locally effective "hot" patterns and up-to-date fishing reports. Good Luck, Ryan Jordan J&J Flies (Bozeman)

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I had good luck using a PMD nymph at Buffalo Ford last Sept. Not much else was working at the time. Frank Cada

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I am planning a trip to Montana in mid to late September and could use some advice on fly selection. My girlfriend and I will be fishing the Yellowstone, Madison, and some in Yellowstone Park. I would like to tie as many flies as possible before the trip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!

Hi Tim You will need a series of Bead Head nymphs and Hare’s Ear Nymphs #10 – #16, assorted Wulffs #12 – #18, Parachute Adams #16 – #20, assorted Compara Duns #14 – #22, Elk Hair Caddis #12 – #20 both light and dark,   Real important for that time of years is #8 Grass Hoppers — my favorite is a Whit’s Hopper or something similar.  By the time September rolls around the fish will have seen many different Hopper patterns and the more realistic the better.  This is especially true in the Park.  The fish on Slough Creek as an example will often "nudge" a hopper patterns several times before taking it.  It’s important that you not strike when they nudge the fly but wait for them to take it.  It can be a real nerve racking experience but a lot of fun as well. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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It matters a GREAT deal WHERE on the Yellowstone you’ll be fishing.  The Yellowstone, as you know, is a very large river that can be broken down into several sections.  If you can be more specific as to the area you’ll be fishing, I’ll tell you the information you want to know.

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I am planning a trip to Montana in mid to late September and could use some advice on fly selection. My girlfriend and I will be fishing the Yellowstone, Madison, and some in Yellowstone Park. I would like to tie as many flies as possible before the trip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!

Have some hoppers for warm days. Wooly buggers in whatever fancies you. I like black with a touch of flash and the Bakers hole special which is yellow and brown with a touch of flash. Bead head Hares ears in a variety of sizes and bead head Prince seems to work on the Madison. Definitely have some size 18-22 pmd type emergers in pale yellow. Last year this was our most effective fly on the madison the first week of October. (I still after all these years can’t figure out how those trout see those flies in all that rough water!) Fished them with a small strike indicator on the nymphs and like a dry for the emergers. I personally still used the strike indicator on th emergers cause I sure can’t see the fly. I would also still have the basics in a variety of sizes like Wulfs Adams, Caddis and sparkle duns, but the nymphs were most productive for us. The Wooly Buggers were the most productive on the Yellowstone above Le Hardy Rapids. Kevin Williams

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I am planning a trip to Montana in mid to late September and could use some advice on fly selection. My girlfriend and I will be fishing the Yellowstone, Madison, and some in Yellowstone Park. I would like to tie as many flies as possible before the trip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!

I suggest calling Madison River Outfitters in West Yellowstone.  (I don’t feel comfortable publishing phone numbers, but I’m sure you can call information.)

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Question:

You can fish the streams in the park productively all Summer long, but they do get low and the fish get squirrely.  Heating is not so much a problem as low water.  Try the upper Hughes, the Hazel (if it’s open this year) and the upper Conway.  Learn to crawl on your belly, and hide behind the boulders.  I know nothing about Naked Creek.  As a sidelight, there are a bunch of decent limestones in the general area as well.  Buffalo Creek is one of the better ones.  Call Harry Murray in Edinsburg, VA.  He has a pharmacy/ fly shop.  Nobody is better versed on these streams than he.  I don’t have his number.  Call dir assist. and get the number for Murray’s fly shop in Edinsburg.

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We fish the lower Shenandoah year round for Rainbow and Brown trout. We take good size trout from about 12 streams with regular success. The trophy trout areas are good but the smaller spring fed streams hold fish year round and have less fishing pressure. In addition to Murrays, I would recommend the Mossy Creek Flyshop in Bridgewater to get info on Smithy Creek, Mossy as well as the Bull Pasture. I would contact the Orvis store in Roanoke to get the flies and hatch info on Lower Jackson, Back Creek, Upper Jackson, Tye, South, Irish, Pedlar and Upper Maury. Ron Bennett Flyfishing Virginia L.L.C. (804) 467-6668

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How late can one fish in the Shanendoa trout streams productively? I’m told they get to warm by "summer." I want to fish Naked Creek in mid Jun e.

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Question:

   I am seeking information on wet flies and their overall effectiveness.  I used them quite a bit last summer and found them productive when both dry flies and nymphs were not.  I would be interested in other people’s opinions and experiences with this category of flies; what conditions, patterns etc. Thank you in advance Craig Horning

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   I am seeking information on wet flies and their overall effectiveness.  I used them quite a bit last summer and found them productive when both dry flies and nymphs were not.  I would be interested in other people’s opinions and experiences with this category of flies; what conditions, patterns etc. Thank you in advance Craig Horning

I have always enjoyed using soft hackled flies, especially as tied in Sylvester Nemes book, The Soft Hackled Fly Addict. Although I can’t give up my parachutes, wulfs and GR hares ears, I do enjoy little yelow soft hackles and variations tied with peacock herl and others with Hares Ear. I must admit, I generally use leftover partridge, grouse, sparrow or even mottled inexpensive capes instead of using some of the harder to find or expensive bird feathers used in Nemes’ book.(but then I’m kinda cheap) I find they work well fished like a dry, or fish them like a nymph. Depending on the situation and lie, I find they sometimes work well during a hatch, maybe taken as emergers. Anyway, I always have some with me in 18-14 sizes, and some Hares ear soft hackles, tied with a longer body on a 9672 in up to size 10, unweighted, to use when GR hares ears are too heavy for shallow water. Kevin Williams, Indianapolis, IN

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Hello All         Well in reference to wet flies…a wet fly man/woman will catch more day in and day out than any dry fly man/woman can hope for.  At least that is what the late great Charles Brooks said…and I agree.  I have a pattern I have varied off a dark spruce.  I call it a little bow’.  I don’t know anything else to call it.  It is tyed on a size 10-14 9671 mustad…it has a dark olive tail…a peacock herl body…and have way up the thorax…so to speak…put in a couple wraps of red floss.  Then continue wrapping up the body with the peacock herl and tye off.  Then put on a couple wraps of grizzly colored pattridge…at the head.  It works wonderful…try a few different thread colors…6/0 is the size I like or 8/0 unithread. I found dark olive and red threads work real well…and yes it can make a difference.  It is a faster water fly…but I have caught 10 fish in half hour with this fly…and have yet to find a place it doesn’t work. From montana…to southern Idaho…and that is alot of water.         Enjoy and let me know how it works

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Are they any better than flies with hackle? Is it not difficult to get them to float? Regards Knut Uleberg.

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: Are they any better than flies with hackle? : Is it not difficult to get them to float? Hi Knut, My application of no-hackle dry-flies is almost always stillwater, or slow-water fishing and almost always with the deer-hair comparaduns. The rivers here in the rockies will drown a no hackle, but unless you are a strict halfordian, this is no great thing anyway. For the swift waters, I’ll sometimes use 3 or more premium hackles per fly. Happy Holidays, Tim Walker

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writes: No hackle flies are especially good on calm water. Trout seem to examine body length and color more in calm water, and no-hackle flies ride better in the surface film to allow trout a longer and better look. Matching size and color of the naturals is especially critical with no-hackle flies. Hope this helps. Cordially, Bob Elliott

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Question:

I am interested in getting information on flyfishing in Patagonia (Argentina and Chile).  It is for my father who is an avid fisherman.  How about camping near rivers, etc. Is it easy to do? Thanks a lot! Marcus

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I am interested in getting information on flyfishing in Patagonia (Argentina and Chile).  It is for my father who is an avid fisherman.  How about camping near rivers, etc. Is it easy to do? Thanks a lot! Marcus

"Flyfishing the World", hosted by John Barrett (a weekly Saturday early morning ESPN show) will be going to Patagonia on their next episode (this Saturday, June 5, 1993).  Stay tuned…. –Ryan

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