Question:

How far from the fly should it be? 1.5 times the depth of the area you are fishing.

1.5 is at the low end of where mine seems to end up in slower water.   For faster water, I seem to get closer to 2x to keep the fly from dragging the indicator under.   OTOH, that’s only a guess, since I’m never really that sure how deep the water is in some cases. Joe F.

Response:

1.5 is at the low end of where mine seems to end up in slower water.   For faster water, I seem to get closer to 2x to keep the fly from dragging the indicator under.   OTOH, that’s only a guess, since I’m never really that sure how deep the water is in some cases.

Very true.  Current does matter.  I can’t remember where I read 1.5x, but it did seem like a good estimate of the "average" for most conditions.  I think the biggest key here is getting the flies to the desired depth.   Sometimes using a dry fly as an indicator is much better than using a yarn/foam/cork type indicator because the fish are feeding closer to the surface and you may want to present an adult version with a emerger or nymph trailing below.  Perhaps the best answer would have been "as conditions dictate?" — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have some questions: First is it necessary for the indicator to float all the time if you can see it readily under water? IMO, no. How far from the fly should it be? 1.5 times the depth of the area you are fishing. Somewhere I have seen directions on how to make your own indicator with poly or macram

Question:

I rec’d, in the mail today,  the August 7th issue of US News and World Report and on page 6 is states: Cheney is a passionate fly fisherman and an able wing shooter.  Former Secretary of State James Baker tells us that Cheney taught him to be a world-class fly-caster.  "Everything I know about fly-fishing I learned from Dick."  He tells of one trip when Cheney crawled on his belly up to a stream so as not to spook the fish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<)))’    <)))’    <)))’    <’(((<    <)))’    <)))’

Response:

  He tells of one trip when Cheney crawled on his belly up to a stream so as not to spook the fish.

        big deal.  after all, the guy is a career politician.         oh, well; i reckon he would do just fine up on slick rock creek. wayno(you see one, you’ve seen ‘em all)

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Question:

I need some help finding information on spin fishing in Wyoming (Yellowstone area).  All the books and sites that I visit are for fly fishing.  If anyone has some information on this subject I would appreciate it.

Response:

Don’t be intimidated.  Tiny 1/8 to 1/16 ounce spoons in brass, silver, and copper will take all trout in all rivers (and all but the biggest lakes) in Wyoming.   Check the regulations, however.  Sometimes, when it says "…single hook artificial only…" you think it means fly fishing only.  If tiey mean fly only, they will say so. Try to use bait anywhere, and you will probably be shot, burried, and your car pushed into a canyon. Fishing in the park isn’t much good, and the crowds are horrible.  Try the Shoshone River just west of Cody, or the Green, north of Pinedale.  Few tourists fish either place. good luck oz

Response:

I lived in West Yellowstone( west enterance to Yellowstone. There are several rivers west of the park that are great for spin fishing. Also there is a lake naned Quake lake that has BIG trout. Henry’s lake is also great.  There are lots of beaver ponds. the choises are there.

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View Wyoming’s new lure for trout at http://www.fishcatchwy.qpg.com

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Question:

[a lot of insufferably smug crap snipped]                                 Chris Simmons

Next time you get the urge to pontificate on the Usenet, head for the toilet instead. Peter Charles

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If you colonials didnt have your heads in the sand half the time, and up somebody elses ass the other half,  you would know that lavender was the colour the season before last. The absolutely cool fly fisher in the coming season will be wearing pale lemon breathables, under orange wading boots, complemented with pink spats ( gravel guards for the uninitiated ! ) with bright yellow suspenders bearing the logo " If you dont C&R you are a wimp". The whole tastefully topped off with a "shortie" wading jacket in aubergine and beige  "flecktarn" with matching hat and chin strap. We are now open for flames ! Tight lines ! ( and whatever else seems appropriate under the circumstances ! ). Mike Connor

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And  please  lets  not forget  How effective  gun control was in Northern Ireland. Jeesh. I contributed to this off topic thread?  lets stay with the purpose of this  NG please. There is a lot of  expertise and love of  fly fishing here. lets not dilute it with Politically Correct advodacy crap Davd

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[deleted] you dye your own doncha?

..get a big assed food processor a 6 foot butterfly net and round trip airline tickets to gay ski week in Aspen…just make sure to release all the fish when you hit The Pan. Your pal, — TimW

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Yeah..shooting fish!  He who owns a gun is a citizen?  Was this something I missed in the new Imigration Act? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

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He means "He who owns a gun is a driving license holder" (if even that). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah..shooting fish!  He who owns a gun is a citizen?  Was this something I missed in the new Imigration Act? He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

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He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

A gun is like a parachute, when you need one-YOU NEED ONE                                                        John Popp

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He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke A gun is like a parachute, when you need one-YOU NEED ONE                                                       John Popp

People who own guns are more likely to get shot than those who dont . Mike Connor

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Chris, you talk like someone who still view Americans as strange type with plaid pants, 3 cameras round their necks and all talking loudly but not saying anything. You clearly have never been to the US. I am a British ex-pat and I tell you they are *exactly* like Brits, insofar as Brits are exactly like everyone else in the world. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one. In fact in many ways, living here is so much better. I don’t need to lock my door at night, I leave my car unlocked with the windows down when I go fishing on a main road and the worst that has ever happened is that I had a wet set when I returned. British gun laws and British ‘freedom with responsibility’ didn’t stop the Northern Irish from slaughtering 3000 odd people. Can’t remember the last time Americans pulled two people from a car, stripped them naked whilst women onlookers jeered and eventually put two bullets their heads. Doesn’t jump out at me. The now-famous mass killings here in the US are no different from the Hungerford slaughter in the late 80s, or that recent one in Scotland. These examples come out without having to think. You should do some national self reflection before you post. Really. As far as this newsgroup goes, don’t read the ‘50%’ of posts that don’t interest you. Notice that only a small percentage of the people in the group start and nurture these threads. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out who they are. Start the odd thread now and then, if you are so inclined. Good luck and enjoy the news group. It is one of the best forums on the net, IMHO. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                             Chris Simmons

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] would someone in colorado tell me everything they have learned about where to fish and how to fish?  i am planning a week-long trip to denver, and need something to spend money on.  for instance, are neoprene waders worn by the cool guys?  if so, what brand should i get? Sure… Wear lavender so you don’t clash with the wallpaper when you get back to the hotel. Your pal, TimW

Where the hell do you order them? Should be in the orvis cat…no mention of em. not in cabella’s either. Felt sure I’d find a pair for sale on EH’s page, but no luck there. gotta be cool, doncha know. questions….. timbo, you dye your own doncha? do you use a commercial non-bleeding dye? how long do you soak/bathe em? any special curing tricks you care to share? best…. –Wataugan Walt

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up

 Chris, These are the very reasons that I stay home and go on-line. Love from the Colonies, Ron

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[deleted] would someone in colorado tell me everything they have learned about where to fish and how to fish?  i am planning a week-long trip to denver, and need something to spend money on.  for instance, are neoprene waders worn by the cool guys?  if so, what brand should i get?

Sure… Wear lavender so you don’t clash with the wallpaper when you get back to the hotel. Your pal, TimW

Response:

As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief,

        (lots of failure to communicate snipped) So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                               Chris Simmons

        oh, well, i will interrupt my partying on to supply a post that might please you, chris old fellow:         thomas & thomas is better than sage.         no, sage is better.         isn’t.         is. or, perhaps this one:         would someone in colorado tell me everything they have learned about where to fish and how to fish?  i am planning a week-long trip to denver, and need something to spend money on.  for instance, are neoprene waders worn by the cool guys?  if so, what brand should i get? or this:         as you all know, the "humpbacked scarlet zizzwheel" is one of the greatest late season carp flies of all time.  should i make my final dubbing with rat fur stained with the urine of immature fox?         well, hope that satisfies your need for the kind of posts we would get if "off topic" material were banned on roff.  sure has been enough for me, for a while. a. wayne harrison

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(snipped) My favorite is the "we don’t want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, only criminals". – Gee, how are you going to do that? – By making laws.

(fun and telling stuff snipped) Later,     – Ken P.S.  It’s been illegal for criminals to own guns for a long time now, hasn’t helped yet.

        you go, kj.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                      Best regards from over the pond                              Chris Simmons

A slight correction, assault rifles are not legal here. What you hear about are semi autos that are cosmetically simular judged by gun control advocates as assault weapons (a non entity). You may also wish to check out the crimes here as in England seems the English crime statistics are higher. Sorry for the off topic post but the corrections had to be made.                                                          John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                             Chris Simmons Chris, I take it you’re from our motherland. We all have our problems. As far as off-topic, ‘thar really ain’t no such thing. We dialogue here as we would on a stream (actually, a little more civily on the stream). Our bond being, this is our cyber stream and it’s full of flies (bait) and risers. So wade on in, the waters cold. aside from all that, we can’t fish all the time….god knows I’ve tried… –Wataugan Walt

Steelhead for you today.  The biggest did damage to my Famous Grouse drinking arm.  Just goes to show what I’ll do for a friend. Ow!  Easy  honey.  Just rub the shoulder a little longer.  ah?  could you hand me that glass right there? yes, thank youuuuuuuuuuuu – sip! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (this is a dirty, thankless, filthy sport but someone’s got to do it) —

Response:

As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                      Best regards from over the pond                                Chris Simmons

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Simmons: <<Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! Ah, but take heart, my friend.  Doncha know that there are now more than 2000 gun laws and the liberals want more.  They believe we can legistlate morals.  More guns?  Hell, give ‘em more laws and more laws.  That’ll teach ‘em! Dave LaCourse

My favorite is the "we don’t want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, only criminals". – Gee, how are you going to do that? – By making laws. – Silly question time, but what makes a person a criminal? – They break the law. [Stunned Silence] – So you’re gonna create laws to keep people who break laws from having guns? [More Stunned Silence] – [DUH] Ya gotta love short-sighted people. Later,      - Ken P.S.  It’s been illegal for criminals to own guns for a long time now, hasn’t helped yet.

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<<Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. You forgot one thing.  Freedom from English rule came from citizens having access to fire arms.

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Simmons: <<Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! Ah, but take heart, my friend.  Doncha know that there are now more than 2000 gun laws and the liberals want more.  They believe we can legistlate morals.  More guns?  Hell, give ‘em more laws and more laws.  That’ll teach ‘em! Dave LaCourse

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Flyfish4fun: <<You forgot one thing.  Freedom from English rule came from citizens having access to fire arms. LOL.   Wish I had said that! Dave LaCourse

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                               Chris Simmons

Chris, I take it you’re from our motherland. We all have our problems. As far as off-topic, ‘thar really ain’t no such thing. We dialogue here as we would on a stream (actually, a little more civily on the stream). Our bond being, this is our cyber stream and it’s full of flies (bait) and risers. So wade on in, the waters cold. aside from all that, we can’t fish all the time….god knows I’ve tried… –Wataugan Walt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                               Chris Simmons

  Harry

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Walt,     I don’t think this kid fly-fishes.  He looks like a wire line troller. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – aside from all that, we can’t fish all the time….god knows I’ve tried… –Wataugan Walt

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Question:

In a couple of weeks, I will be taking a trip for a couple days of fishing on Dale Hollow then a couple of days at Table Rock.  I have never been on either one of them.  Anyone have any advice on how to fish and what to use.  Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks

Response:

I am envious.  I have not been on table rock in 10 years.  Table rock is full of bass and a few rainbow’s.  There are a few main rivers that empty in to Table rock.  One is the white river.  This river has decent fishing, but it soon turns shallow.  The other river is the Roaring River.  Matter a fact I would recommend canning the trip to table rock and heading up to Roaring River State park.  Buy a day pass, at last check it was $3, and fish your heart out.  The state park stocks the river with trout from the hatchery at the end of the park every night.  The limit was 5 trout and they are mighty good eating.  Roaring river is about 5 miles from Eagle Rock landing on tablerock.  If you like to fly fish, you will not find a better place in which to practice the fine art. Let me know if you wand any further info on Roaring River. IF you still want to go to table rock you will find great coves with plenty of dead cover.  That is, plenty of trees and stumps.  The bass are thick as theives.  If you go down by the dam the water is about 150 feet deep.  This is good fishing.  The water gets pretty warm in the summer. So the fish tend to run deep in the daytime. I hope you have luck.  If you need any further recomendations please let me know.  This is where I spent my summers for years. Deon Smith

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: In a couple of weeks, I will be taking a trip for a couple days of fishing : on Dale Hollow then a couple of days at Table Rock.  I have never been on : either one of them.  Anyone have any advice on how to fish and what to : use.  Any ideas would be appreciated. I fished the B.A.S.S. Missouri Invitational on Table Rock a few weeks back and I love the lake. If you haven’t booked a place to stay yet I stayed at a place called the Lighthouse Lodge in Kimberling City. A guy named Dave owns it and I really liked him. He is a fair source for where the fish are too. And no I don’t get no kick back or anything else from him. Although I haven’t fished Dale Hollow I was up there this spring to look around and it LOOKED a bit like Table Rock. Judgement based on standing no shore and looking at the lake. So take it for what its worth. Back to Table Rock. Best pattern I saw was fishing CEDAR trees. I could catch nice fish by dragging a lure through the tree and coming in contact with the tree. Stopping right after it hits and I would get bit. This was in varying depths of water. Could be as little as 8 feet and as much as 40. One guys method was to crank a stick bait down into the tops of trees in DEEP water and let it sit there. Move it a bit and let it sit again. It was too slow a pattern for me. Another good lure/method was to through light line with no weight and a Zoom minnow imitation to the tops of trees and let it sink. Twitching once in a while. This was a killer combination IF you had the right color. Color was key here. Just keep trying colors till they start tearing your arms off. Next was gravel points. Look for pea gravel on points and I used jerk baits. This was my best pattern. Both lakes are extremely clear water so long casts are a must. And remember that conditions change and what was working last month may not this month. Oh and when we were there the fish were spawning. Many people caught limits by sight fishing beds. Good fishing, All About Computers      | (810) 456-3894 (work) 2887 Pontiac Ct.         | (810) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   | Single and not taking applications. 48326                    | Interviews maybe.

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Question:

Join us for dinner at a new soul-food restaurant, after we surf the rapids on inner tubes in the Catskill Mountains on Saturday, Sept 14      Our 26th adventure will be appreciated by the thrill seekers everywhere.  Several times a year, a dam is opened in the Catskill Mountains.  This results in a tidal wave surging down the Esopus Creek.  Whitewater enthusiasts seize upon this moment to shoot these rapids on truck inner tubes.  If you seek an adrenalin rush, read on.      Our car pool will take us on a 2.6 hour trip to Phoenicia, New York, a village of 970 in the Catskill Mountains.  It is west of Woodstock, New York and south of Hunter Mountain (elevation, 4,025 feet).  The Phoenicia Business Association claims that they are the "northeast’s tubing capital".  In fact, they are blessed with no less than three (count ‘em) tube rental companies.  Phoenicia also boasts of "world class" fly fishing, although fishing for flies never appealed to us.        After we arrive in Phoenicia, we will board a shuttle van operated by the Rubber Ducky Tube Rental Company (no, we are not making the name up).  It will take us to the headwaters of the Esopus Creek.  Those fluent in the Mohawk Indian dialect will know "Esopus" means fast water.  Those not fluent but not legally blind will realize this anyhow.  The Esopus feeds the Ashokan Reservoir, which is a source of New York City drinking water.  So it’s clean.      Rubber Ducky will provide us with helmets, foot protectors (old sneakers, really) and thickly padded life jackets.  After being suitably atTired for tubing (no pun intended), we will assume a reclining diaper position in a modified truck tire inner tubes. They will have rope handles (hold on tight!) and a seat.      The seat is just a wood board, but it protects your buns against unsightly bruises, thereby saving you from embarrassing questions from your significant other.  But you can expect minor bruises and scrapes on other body parts.  You may want to bring knee pads.        Your next 100 minutes on the Esopus Creek will give you a deeper appreciation of what it would be like to be a pair of underpants during the spin cycle.  With of course, a scenic view of the Catskill Mountains.  Among the sights you can see is the twisted wreck of a steel railroad trestle, which was nearly washed away by the raging waters of the Esopus.      Lest we scare you away from doing this trip, we feel duty bound to advise you that we tubed the Esopus on our 14th outing on June 22nd, with no loss of life or ill effects.  Indeed, everyone wanted to do it again.  Admittedly, we did not go when there was a dam opening.  However, Rubber Ducky tells us that tubing is a lot smoother when there is a dam opening.  This is because the water level is higher, so there are less rocks to bump into, and hence, there is less chance you will be spilled into the water.  The water, however, is faster, making for a quicker, and more fun ride.      Our deal with Rubber Ducky includes unlimited rides upstream on their shuttle to the casting-off point.  So you can do the ride down the Esopus over and over again, for just $13, everything included.  We will stay until our third and last run is completed between 6:00 pm and 6:30 pm.        Lunch:  After our first run, we will eat lunch together.  The Phoenicia Business Association says the village has "great" restaurants.  We found one nice outdoor cafe which served decent brick oven pizza.        Dinner:  We will have dinner at about 9 pm at Mr. Tony’s Soul Kitchen, 337 East 9th Street.  It was reviewed in the New York Times by Eric Asimov on September 6, 1996 (excerpted below):      New York Times best dishes recommendations:  Salmon cakes, green salad, sweet potato pancakes, soups, chicken fried steak, sauteed trout, grilled tuna, fried chicken breast, watermelon sorbet, flourless chocolate cake, fruit cobblers.      "And word is slowly getting around about the food, which inspired by Southern traditions but is completely contemporary American cooking.  Dinners start with a basket of corn bread, neither dry nor greasy, sometimes blended with cheddar cheese, other times with jalapeno.  The menu is small but has some significant standouts, like fresh salmon cakes ($7.95) with crisp, wonderfully delicate skins, served with a dill remoulade and a nice little green salad.  A bigger green salad ($5.75) is terrific, topped with walnuts and little buttons of goat cheese.  Crisp sweet-potato pancakes ($5.25) look big and awkward, but they are delicious, served with a chunky, spicy apple sauce.      Me. Tony’s "painstaking prepared soup du jour" ($5) earns its name.  One day it’s a corn-and-leek chowder with a lingering smoky taste.  Another day it’s a peppery cream of broccoli soup with a lasting, multidimensional flavor.  Main courses all come with creamy mashed potatoes and a vegetable.  I ordered chicken fried steak ($11.95), imagining truck-stop fare best washed down with high-octane coffee; I was astonished to find a real steak in a delicate breading with a dainty cream gravy and glazed carrots.  A special of grilled tuna steak au poivre ($13.95) came rare and very peppery in a sweet blend of port wine and soy sauce.  Fried chicken breast ($8.95) in an excellent, smoky barbecue sauces is much better than the pallid, unremarkable roasted chicken ($9.95) and the surprisingly dry broiled pork chop ($10.95).      …Mr. Gaskin is volubly proud of his desserts ($4 each).  I’m sure his father would be proud, too.  I’m sure his father would be proud, too, with dishes like refreshing watermelon sorbet, rich flourless chocolate cake topped with chocolate sauce, and wonderful fruit cobblers served in little ramekins."      Departure:  From 86th Street and Broadway, northwest corner, in front of the Gap, near the exits for the 1 and 9 local trains, on Saturday, September 14th (rain date, 9/15).  We LEAVE at 9:03 a.m. SHARP.  No kidding.      Directions:  Take the New York State Thruway to Exit 19 at Kingston.  Follow Route 28 west for 25 miles.  See sign on right welcoming you to Phoenicia.  Go down ramp, over the bridge, and make left to Rubber Ducky (914-688-2018).      Reservations:  You can make life as easier for us by confirming your reservation ASAP.  Please tell us if you joining us for dinner AND whether you can make it Sunday if the weather is bad -NYC Young Adult Activity Group-

Response:

    Our 26th adventure will be appreciated by the thrill seekers everywhere.  Several times a year, a dam is opened in the Catskill Mountains.  This results in a tidal wave surging down the Esopus Creek.  Whitewater enthusiasts seize upon this moment to shoot these rapids on truck inner tubes.  If you seek an adrenalin rush, read on.

"Whitewater enthusiasts" paddle down these rapids in appropriate watercraft, with appropriate equipment, including PFD’s, helmets, sufficient clothing to withstand rather cold water, and, most importantly, with appropriate knowledge of class III whitewater. Tubing the Esopus is, at best, a dubious idea, suitable not for "thrillseekers" but for those with a careless attitude toward their health.  If you must engage in tubing, please do it on a river like the Delaware, where the consequences are likely to be much less severe. —Rsk

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: Join us for dinner at a : new soul-food restaurant, : after we surf the rapids on : inner tubes in the Catskill : Mountains on Saturday, Sept 14 Hey everyone, The trip has been moved to Sunday, Sept 15. You can check out the site for the any late updates (http://www.cnct.com/home/kris/) -Charlie-NYCYAAG-

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Question:

my only complaint is that he and his wife giggle like morons every

time they hook a fish.  Can anybody shed any light on this?<<<   Drives me into the trees as well ! Harry

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my only complaint is that he and his wife giggle like morons every time they hook a fish.  Can anybody shed any light on this?<<<  Drives me into the trees as well ! Harry

  Yea, I hate to complain about the only show dedicated to our beloved pastime, however, the giggling drives me NUTS and I can’t figure out why after so many guided trips they would not be able to come up with some places to go on thier own!!! ( Maybe cause the plug for thier own travel service is at the end of the show )              /Leave nothing but your footprints                                               /                                              /                                             /                                            /                                           /                                       O  /                                       |_/o                                       |                                      / |

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I do not know these people but I ran into them on the Big Horn and they seemed like nice people trying to make a living from the kinds of people who buy videos about flyfishing (I guess in hopes they will become better flyfishers).  I guess if you paid a lot of money for the video you have a right to bitch — otherwise it sounds just like jealousy to me.

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Harry  Yea, I hate to complain about the only show dedicated to our beloved pastime, however, the giggling drives me NUTS and I can’t figure out why after so many guided trips they would not be able to come up with some places to go on thier own!!! ( Maybe cause the plug for thier own travel service is at the end of the show )                                      Jay

Jay: I only recently noticed this thread.  Is "this guy and his wife" by any chance Jim and Kelly Watt who produce a fishing show for ESPN? Ed —

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OK, ok.  I started all of this hoping to find out if this Watt was related to the rape and pillage Watt of the ’80’s interior dept.  I’m sorry about the giggling remark, but it is a bit excessive, if perfectly sincere in appreciation for the exhilaration of hooking a fish on a fly.  I believe the show is top notch (anything’s better than Bill Dance).  If Jim and Kelly are in on this thread, I hereby invite them to a full day’s guided fly fishing for smallmouth bass on the beautiful upper Potomac near Harper’s Ferry, WVA–two custom whitewater fishing rafts, two guides, and lunch for the whole crew.  Laugh all you want, and catch triple-digits of smallies.  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I only recently noticed this thread.  Is "this guy and his wife" by any chance Jim and Kelly Watt who produce a fishing show for ESPN? Yup, the same Giggle Twins…Say what you want, they make the sanctimonious blatherings of John Barrett in his Fly Fishing The World look good by comparison… Thank god for ESPN, VCRs, and the fast forward button – because I can’t see waking up early on a Saturday morning to listen to the flyfishing equivalent to Beavis and Butthead (hee! tee hee!…YUCK!) /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <         "Read this and nobody gets hurt ;^)"         < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yeah…YEAH… and another thing… Fortunately I don’t get cable, but I’ve seen a couple of the Watt’s videos and can’t imagine how you guys don’t find it absolutely charmning when Kelly talks baby talk while fighting a tarpon. "Ooooh I tink I wost it". Give me a break. What these shows need are real people doing this fishing, people who haven’t shaved in a couple days, cussin and fartin’ in their waders. Yeah. Me for example. Yeah and Wayne too, they can send us off to all the great fishing locations. And we’ll have guests too : jc : "Well Wayne, looks like we’re ready to fish for barramundi here in Australia." wt : "Yes we are John, and here comes our special guest, Ingrid Newkirk!" etc. no laughing, no newage music, no tarponwear. jez fishun.                                                         jc

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If Jim & Kelly can’t make it, I’d like to volunteer, and I’ll even giggle if it’s absolutely necessary. bob vorel

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I only recently noticed this thread.  Is "this guy and his wife" by any chance Jim and Kelly Watt who produce a fishing show for ESPN? Yup, the same Giggle Twins…Say what you want, they make the sanctimonious blatherings of John Barrett in his Fly Fishing The World look good by comparison… Thank god for ESPN, VCRs, and the fast forward button – because I can’t see waking up early on a Saturday morning to listen to the flyfishing equivalent to Beavis and Butthead (hee! tee hee!…YUCK!) /dave

YeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaa!  Ride ‘em, Dave! — "Are the crows calling to me?" Asked Caw.

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Good idea about turning down the sound.  I have their videos in my shop, and they are good references if you are planning a trip to one of those destinations.  However, listening to them for too long is akin to water torture.  Dave

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be critical of jim watt all you want…we’re all stuck at work on our computers and he’s out in the boat with kelly…fishing no less.

 True Story !!.   Harry

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be critical of jim watt all you want…we’re all stuck at work on our computers and he’s out in the boat with kelly…fishing no less…

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Question:

I fished the St. Joe river in early July and caught many good-sized cutthroat. The St. Joe is about 1.5 hrs SW of C d’A. Would be interested to find out how the other locations turned out.

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Looking for fly fishing information in the Coeur D’ Alene, Idaho area. Lakes, streams, etc. Will be in the area in mid August. Thanks, in advance.

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Looking for fly fishing information in the Coeur D’ Alene, Idaho area. Lakes, streams, etc. Will be in the area in mid August. Thanks, in advance.

I would head for the San Poil river over south of Republic Wa. It is about an hour from there.

Response:

The North Fork Coeur d’Alene River is reportedly yielding more cutthroat this season, and a little more variety in sizes.   For the past few years there would be about two fish per mile, both 18".   Now there are some other year classes starting to show some recovery.

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: Looking for fly fishing information in the Coeur D’ Alene, Idaho : area. Lakes, streams, etc. Will be in the area in mid August. The Idaho state record for pike has been broken once or twice a year for the last decade. All of the fish have come from Lake Coeur d’Alene, mostly on bait in the spring and from the "chain of lakes" on the east side. If you can locate them in August, should be fun. Most of the boat activity on the lake itself will be trollers looking for chinook salmon. Try some alternative waters: 1. the Spokane River, between C d’A and Spokane (check with Fins and Feathers in C d’A for specifics) 2. the Kootenai (great tailwater fishery between Libby MT and Bonners Ferry ID) – one of the shop/ guide operations is on-line; try 3. The Pend Oreille system (check with Panhandle Cast n Blast – real name – in Hayden Lake); this watershed includes Priest Lake and River — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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Question:

I still have not heard much information about fishing in the Herndon, Leesburg area for fly fisherman. Please E-mail me with info.

I lived in Virginia 12 years ago and used to fish a creek near Leesburg called Goose Creek.  No trout, but plenty of smallmouth and various other pan fish.  I can’t remember the road I used to] access the creek from.  I used to turn left off of Route 7 (west) prior to Leesburg.  You should be able to find it on a good map.

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I don’t know what you would consider to be "in your area", but, it’s hard to beat fly fishing in the Potomac for smallmouth bass.  Also, the Rapidan is an excellent early season spot for native brook trout.

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Abner) writes: I still have not heard much about …..

I imagine you have read Howell Raines book Fly Fishing Thru a Mid-life crisis   He talks about the area S. & W. of Washington, DC in Virginia. I thought it was an excellent book for all fly-fishers  Al

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Question:

I haven’t been really following this thread and there may have been some email responses as well.  Could someone summarize?  I too would like to get some polarized Rx glasses. — John Fereira, posting from historic Pleasanton, Ca. Viacom Cable "More Of What You’re Looking For"

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I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses types are too cumbersome.

        Yes… There’s a company called Cabela’s that has perscription polarized sunglasses for as low as $149 (and as high as $199).  They’re by "Specialized eyewear".  I’ve never heard of it, but you may have.  They look fairly nice.  Order their catalog… The number is 1-800-237-4444 (24 hours, 7 days a week, US and Canada). -Steve —      Duke Systems BBS/Info System – 216/587-4474 (10PM-7AM EST) 14.4k v.32

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I have a pair of bifocal Rx polaroids I mail-ordered fro the Cabella’s catalog several years ago. They work great. I use them all the time. Price was in the $220 neighborhood, I think, which is not bad…

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I have two pair of polarized prescription sunglasses.  The construction is a sandwich with the polarizing material in between.  One is plastic and very light, the other is photogray glass and doesn’t seem to be much (if any) thicker than the standard glass lenses. don’t go totally clear inside.  I doubt if I would get them again unless that aspect changed, but they do a very good job outdoors.  The plastic ones were about $160 and are extremely comfortable and effective. Enjoy, Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stonick) says: says: MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps. I think that the polarizing mechanism is plastic. I do not think that you can get glass molecules to line up into nice rows to perform filtering to polarize the light. The glass portion of your lens is the prescription portion.  The polarizing laminate is plastic. I assume that they can join this laminate to plastic as well as glass corrective lens. I will ask my brother-in-law (optometrist). I would guess that you could even put the scratch resistant coating over the polarizing laminate. John,   If I’m wrong on this one then I’m stuck with a pair of glasses that are heavier than need be.  When I purchased these lenses there really wasn’t any question about whether they were glass of plastic…no choice.  After looking at my sunglasses (which I just did) I cannot really tell if they are glass or plastic.  They are abou the same thickness as my regular lenses (plastic).  I suppose the important point was that they said they were not scratch resistant. Again…if they can be made scratch resistant…I missed the boat. One other important item not to be overlooked.  When you purchase the frames, assuming you buy something like a Ray Ban or other regular sunglass, buy the version with regular sunglass lenses rather than polarized, non-prescription lenses which will cost you a lot more.  I think the difference between buying my sunglasses with regular vs polarized non-script lenses was 85. vs 130. Don’t let them sucker you into the non-script polarized unless you may need them later (eg if you buy contacts and might switch lenses). Sorry for all the long-windedness of this..the end result is that I really like the glasses I have and would recommend getting prescription polarized.                                Scott

— — — Steve Bunis,  Sun Microsystems  ***DoD #0795***        93-ST1100   —               Itasca, IL       ***AMA #682049***         —                               ***HRCA #HM125617** —                                  *** N9VLP ***

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says: MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps. I think that the polarizing mechanism is plastic. I do not think that you can get glass molecules to line up into nice rows to perform filtering to polarize the light. The glass portion of your lens is the prescription portion.  The polarizing laminate is plastic.   I assume that they can join this laminate to plastic as well as glass corrective lens. I will ask my brother-in-law (optometrist).   I would guess that you could even put the scratch resistant coating over the polarizing laminate.

The laminate the polaarizing plastic over your lense (plastic or glass). — Richard Park    

Response:

Stonick) says: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says: MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps. I think that the polarizing mechanism is plastic. I do not think that you can get glass molecules to line up into nice rows to perform filtering to polarize the light. The glass portion of your lens is the prescription portion.  The polarizing laminate is plastic. I assume that they can join this laminate to plastic as well as glass corrective lens. I will ask my brother-in-law (optometrist). I would guess that you could even put the scratch resistant coating over the polarizing laminate.

John,   If I’m wrong on this one then I’m stuck with a pair of glasses that are heavier than need be.  When I purchased these lenses there really wasn’t any question about whether they were glass of plastic…no choice.  After looking at my sunglasses (which I just did) I cannot really tell if they are glass or plastic.  They are abou the same thickness as my regular lenses (plastic).  I suppose the important point was that they said they were not scratch resistant. Again…if they can be made scratch resistant…I missed the boat. One other important item not to be overlooked.  When you purchase the frames, assuming you buy something like a Ray Ban or other regular sunglass, buy the version with regular sunglass lenses rather than polarized, non-prescription lenses which will cost you a lot more.  I think the difference between buying my sunglasses with regular vs polarized non-script lenses was 85. vs 130. Don’t let them sucker you into the non-script polarized unless you may need them later (eg if you buy contacts and might switch lenses). Sorry for all the long-windedness of this..the end result is that I really like the glasses I have and would recommend getting prescription polarized.                                Scott

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Path: zcias2.ziff.com!noc.near.net!news.bu.edu!olivea!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston .ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!sbm1 Organization: Penn State University Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Lines: 44

USA Sport makes a plastic polarized lens that allows for a prescription insert. I’ve got two pairs of the frames, one in gold smoke and one a gray/green polarized which lets me move the insert into the appropriate frame. They run about $250 for the first set with prescription insert, then about $80 for just the polarized frame and lense combo. If you have a Price Club/Costco near you, they handle these in their optical departments. If you buy there you can cut the price in half. David< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says:        Hi all, I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses types are too cumbersome.        Thanx, — — Mike…… I’ve spent years dealing with this problem.  Used clip-ons, space goggles, etc and was always slightly dissatisfied.  Also went to route of wearing contacts and then purchasing polarized non-prescriptions but I gave up on the contacts. My solution was to finally spend the money to purchase polarized/prescriptions and I’ve been thrilled with the results.  I do a lot of fly fishing and these things can really let me see all the details. Some suggestions:  I believe Cabelas (and others) do carry frames and will allow you to order prescription lenses but I don’t know if I like this idea. Any decent optical shop can order polarized lenses for you but they don’t come cheap.  MAJOR CONCERN:  keep in mind that you can use any "optical quality" frame to hold your lenses.  This means they must have screws that open the frame to allow the lense placement.  YOU CANNOT use frames that "pop" lenses into a nylon frame. I mention this because I had a pair of Ray Ban Cats (nylon frame) and they could not put polarized lenses into them…the polarizing filter is laminated or sandwiched within the rest of the lense and the fear is that by popping the lense into the frame you will de-laminate the lense. I purchase a pair of Ray Ban frames (outdoorsmen, pilot-style) of optical quality and then ordered polarized lenses in my Rx.  I went through Pearle Express but any decent optical place should be able to help you.  If you can find frames cheaper elsewhere…do so, but make sure they are optical quality! Pearle just had a so-called "deal" of 50% off all frames…but even with this, they weren’t cheap.  My bottom line on this…I debated for years before making this decision but I think it was worth the extra money. MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps.                         Scott Maitland E. Chicago, IN. 46312                | "Failure is NOT an option"

David Chernicoff — Any opinion expressed is mine….     unless I’ve been kidnapped by aliens..     in which case, it’s ours…… <—

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The answer is YES, I’ve been wearing polorized bifocals for years.  See your optomitrist<sp? and he should be able to order them.  They do cost some but make all the difference on the water. Aloha – bob    ooo_

: I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? : — Mike……

away.  Can you get prescription bifocals in polorized glasses, plain lense on top and mags down low?  That would be perfect for my applications. Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone.

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says: MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps.

I think that the polarizing mechanism is plastic. I do not think that you can get glass molecules to line up into nice rows to perform filtering to polarize the light. The glass portion of your lens is the prescription portion.  The polarizing laminate is plastic.   I assume that they can join this laminate to plastic as well as glass corrective lens. I will ask my brother-in-law (optometrist).   I would guess that you could even put the scratch resistant coating over the polarizing laminate. — John "fish tremble when they hear my name" Stonick

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        Hi all, I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses types are too cumbersome.         Thanx, — — Mike…… Process Automation Dept. M.C. 2-467  | UUCP:…!UUNET!Inland!Tichenor Inland Steel Co.                     | Prodigy: WBFC49A 3210 Watling St.                     | Voice: (219)399-5777 E. Chicago, IN. 46312                | "Failure is NOT an option"

Response:

says:        Hi all, I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses types are too cumbersome.        Thanx, — — Mike……

 I’ve spent years dealing with this problem.  Used clip-ons, space goggles, etc and was always slightly dissatisfied.  Also went to route of wearing contacts and then purchasing polarized non-prescriptions but I gave up on the contacts. My solution was to finally spend the money to purchase polarized/prescriptions and I’ve been thrilled with the results.  I do a lot of fly fishing and these things can really let me see all the details. Some suggestions:  I believe Cabelas (and others) do carry frames and will allow you to order prescription lenses but I don’t know if I like this idea. Any decent optical shop can order polarized lenses for you but they don’t come cheap.  MAJOR CONCERN:  keep in mind that you can use any "optical quality" frame to hold your lenses.  This means they must have screws that open the frame to allow the lense placement.  YOU CANNOT use frames that "pop" lenses into a nylon frame. I mention this because I had a pair of Ray Ban Cats (nylon frame) and they could not put polarized lenses into them…the polarizing filter is laminated or sandwiched within the rest of the lense and the fear is that by popping the lense into the frame you will de-laminate the lense. I purchase a pair of Ray Ban frames (outdoorsmen, pilot-style) of optical quality and then ordered polarized lenses in my Rx.  I went through Pearle Express but any decent optical place should be able to help you.  If you can find frames cheaper elsewhere…do so, but make sure they are optical quality! Pearle just had a so-called "deal" of 50% off all frames…but even with this, they weren’t cheap.  My bottom line on this…I debated for years before making this decision but I think it was worth the extra money. MAJOR DRAWBACK:  polarized lenses are heavier (glass) and NOT scratch resistant…after what you’ll pay for them you learn to be very careful. Hope this helps.                          Scott Maitland – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -E. Chicago, IN. 46312                | "Failure is NOT an option"

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: says: : :        Hi all, : I was wondering if there is a source for polarized, prescription sunglasses? : I don’t like the clip-on type – poor quality optics, and over-the-glasses : types are too cumbersome. :        Thanx, : — : — Mike…… :  I’ve spent years dealing with this problem.  Used clip-ons, space goggles, etc : My solution was to finally spend the money to purchase polarized/prescriptions : and I’ve been thrilled with the results.  I do a lot of fly fishing and these : things can really let me see all the details. I don’t wear prescrition glasses but do take magnifiers with me on the water.  As I get older, I find that focusing up close (tying flys and tying the darn #24s on a 7X tipit) has become a problem.  The magnifiers solve the problem but prevent you from seeing anything beyond a foot away.  Can you get prescription bifocals in polorized glasses, plain lense on top and mags down low?  That would be perfect for my applications. Remember:  Fishing is NOT a matter of life and death.               It is much more important than that!            Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.               Teach a man to fish and you get rid of him on weekends. Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone. Hewlett-Packard Co.       |  But then, I’ve never let that stop me before.     P.O. BOX 2197             |    Many men go fishing all their lives without Colorado Springs, Co 80901|    knowing that it is not fish they are after.

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