Question:

If you think that is weird, check out this; Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846. John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946. Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860. John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960. The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters. Both were particularly concerned with civil rights. Both wives lost their children while living in the White House. Both Presidents were shot on a Friday. Both were shot in the head. Lincoln’s secretary, Kennedy, warned him not to go to the theatre. Kennedy’s secretary, Lincoln, warned him not to go to Dallas. Both were assassinated by Southerners. Both were succeeded by Southerners. Both successors were named Johnson. Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808. Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908. John Wilkes Booth was born in 1839. Lee Harvey Oswald was born in 1939. Both assassins were known by their three names. Both names are comprised of fifteen letters Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse. Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater. Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials. Coincidence? Hardly… Your Bug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and I`m not leaving. Your Bug Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away. Snookered again Collier, you whacko. Simple google search "nolio collier" points me to this page: http://www.cdkitchen.com/rfr/data/915228089.shtml There, the following is posted Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes If you’ve ever been to the Italian pizza restaurant Bertucci’s and dared to try one of their more unusual pizzas, you may be familar with this pizza which contains no tomato sauce…. Bertucci’s Nolio Pizza 1 medium yellow onion 1 tsp white pepper 1 cup heavy cream 1/2 lemon 1 – 1 1/2 cup shredded prosciutto 1 1/2 cup shredded mozzarella cheese 1 package Pilsbury pizza dough (or home made). Olive oil. Preheat oven to 400 F. Boil heavy cream until thickened. Add white pepper and the juice from a half of a lemon.   Slice onion very thin so that you are left with rings. Saute onion rings in olive oil until they are starting to get brown. Assemble pizza as follows: Unroll pizza dough onto a non-stick pizza pan. Add cheese, then prosciutto. (I like to add some pepperoni slices too).  Add the cream mixture at a time to the pizza, a tablespoon at a time, forming little puddles spread around the pizza. Drain the onions and put them on last. They will continue to carmelize as the pizza bakes.   Bake 8-10 minutes. Don’t over bake. You don’t want to "dry out" the pizza. You are sick, Collier.  Your need to be accepted is pitiful.  Print out these threads of the last couple of weeks, and take them to your shrink.   Tell him/her that you seek acceptance on ROFF because your frat brothers never accepted you, and beg him for help. Save your pride, and don’t take this as a challenge to come up with an alias that an idiot like me couldn’t bust.  You are a pitiful excuse for a human being, and getting more so rapidly. Also, what kind of idiot would poison a perfectly good pizza with heavy cream?

Response:

Thanks, Wayne, Frank, Dave.   She’s out of danger now, just getting meds adjusted and the doctors popping in with contradictory opinions on when she can go home.  I think some want to keep her until they can track down the cause, rather than just letting her go when she seems okay.   It’s just wearing when everything to do with my kids or pets is always emergencies (okay, myself, too.).   When even the cats wait to get sick until the regular vet is closed, you know you’ve got a pattern going.  Although the dog never required a vet ER and my husband never even sees a regular doctor.  I have now seen the ERs of 5 different hospitals (not counting the ones I worked for in the long ago.) for actual emergencies.  Some of them more than once.   She sympathized with me about camping and fishing.  Said if she were in my spot, she’d want to go, too.  Heck, even though she hates camping and has never fished, she’d probably rather be doing that then trying to con the nurses in to taking her out for a cigarette. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

cyli writes: BTW, I do cook; sometimes very oddly, though.  

You and I would get along very well.  Hope your daughter is better. Dave

Response:

You can’t imagine how much more I’d rather be camping and fishing than visiting a hospital.  Or listening to a getting well cranky adult around the house.  Okay, maybe you can.  20 randy old guys would be a breeze. BTW, I do cook; sometimes very oddly, though. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless

My best to you and yours.  Hope all is better soonest. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Mom and daughter both, HANG IN THERE!  Remember Nancy’s web site I sent you? Go there and drop her a note to let her know what’s going on with your daughter trial’s and tribulations.  I think you’ll find her a great person to "talk" to.  Her insights can be most enlightening. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks, but my next week promises to be almost as nasty as last, except it seems my daughter _is_ likely to live.  But the only day off she’s giving me from visiting her in the hospital is tomorrow (today? Sunday, anyway.).   What are the odds an apparently healthy 30 year old woman would suddenly come down with clots all over her body? Doctors are going nuts (always a good sign, means they’re working hard at discovering the cause.).  They thought she’d be coming home on about Monday or Tuesday, but complications have ensued. You can’t imagine how much more I’d rather be camping and fishing than visiting a hospital.  Or listening to a getting well cranky adult around the house.  Okay, maybe you can.  20 randy old guys would be a breeze. BTW, I do cook; sometimes very oddly, though. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Say, the guy who was supposed to go down to Cape Lookout with me this coming weekend has to fly to Europe instead.  Lots of False Albacore and camping on the beach.  If you can get to Richmond by Thursday evening and bring your basic camping stuff, I have an extra Albacore rig and room in the car.  Just think! 20 randy old guys out on a spit of sand in the Atlantic and ONE woman!! (do you cook?)   BTW, The invitation is for reel!

Thanks, but my next week promises to be almost as nasty as last, except it seems my daughter _is_ likely to live.  But the only day off she’s giving me from visiting her in the hospital is tomorrow (today? Sunday, anyway.).   What are the odds an apparently healthy 30 year old woman would suddenly come down with clots all over her body? Doctors are going nuts (always a good sign, means they’re working hard at discovering the cause.).  They thought she’d be coming home on about Monday or Tuesday, but complications have ensued. You can’t imagine how much more I’d rather be camping and fishing than visiting a hospital.  Or listening to a getting well cranky adult around the house.  Okay, maybe you can.  20 randy old guys would be a breeze.   BTW, I do cook; sometimes very oddly, though.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Say, the guy who was supposed to go down to Cape Lookout with me this coming weekend has to fly to Europe instead.  Lots of False Albacore and camping on the beach.  If you can get to Richmond by Thursday evening and bring your basic camping stuff, I have an extra Albacore rig and room in the car.  Just think! 20 randy old guys out on a spit of sand in the Atlantic and ONE woman!! (do you cook?)   BTW, The invitation is for reel! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who cares? You came on with all the same errors he did, so whether or not you’re him is immaterial to those of us who are or are studying to be assholes. Maybe you were twins separated at birth? …and I`m not leaving. Okay. Your Bug Not mine.  It can take years of good posts and good manners to make me mellow out.   For my first 5 years or so of electronic communications I was regarded as kindly and forgiving.  I got over it.  For the next 5 years or so, I only took out after the occasional user who reminded me of a horde of black flies.  I got over that, too.  Now I can take offense at mere gnats, if their timing is right and their promise is of growth. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Rest Your case! Without further checking of the accuracy of your facts, this obviously proves that the asassinations were planned and performed by the same "Firm", maybe they should be a bit more inventious in their planning… There is a lawyer in the house, what do You say?? Coincidence #2: John Kennedy (Toole) wrote of a confederacy of dunces, You wrote of a confederacy against John (F) Kennedy… Weird world this! Stefan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you think that is weird, check out this; Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846. John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946. Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860. John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960. The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters. Both were particularly concerned with civil rights. Both wives lost their children while living in the White House. Both Presidents were shot on a Friday. Both were shot in the head. Lincoln’s secretary, Kennedy, warned him not to go to the theatre. Kennedy’s secretary, Lincoln, warned him not to go to Dallas. Both were assassinated by Southerners. Both were succeeded by Southerners. Both successors were named Johnson. Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808. Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908. John Wilkes Booth was born in 1839. Lee Harvey Oswald was born in 1939. Both assassins were known by their three names. Both names are comprised of fifteen letters Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse. Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater. Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials. Coincidence? Hardly… Your Bug

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and I`m not leaving. Your Bug Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away. Snookered again Collier, you whacko. Simple google search "nolio collier" points me to this page: http://www.cdkitchen.com/rfr/data/915228089.shtml There, the following is posted Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes If you’ve ever been to the Italian pizza restaurant Bertucci’s and dared to try one of their more unusual pizzas, you may be familar with this pizza which contains no tomato sauce…. Bertucci’s Nolio Pizza 1 medium yellow onion 1 tsp white pepper 1 cup heavy cream 1/2 lemon 1 – 1 1/2 cup shredded prosciutto 1 1/2 cup shredded mozzarella cheese 1 package Pilsbury pizza dough (or home made). Olive oil. Preheat oven to 400 F. Boil heavy cream until thickened. Add white pepper and the juice from a half of a lemon.   Slice onion very thin so that you are left with rings. Saute onion rings in olive oil until they are starting to get brown. Assemble pizza as follows: Unroll pizza dough onto a non-stick pizza pan. Add cheese, then prosciutto. (I like to add some pepperoni slices too).  Add the cream mixture at a time to the pizza, a tablespoon at a time, forming little puddles spread around the pizza. Drain the onions and put them on last. They will continue to carmelize as the pizza bakes.   Bake 8-10 minutes. Don’t over bake. You don’t want to "dry out" the pizza. You are sick, Collier.  Your need to be accepted is pitiful.  Print out these threads of the last couple of weeks, and take them to your shrink. Tell him/her that you seek acceptance on ROFF because your frat brothers never accepted you, and beg him for help. Save your pride, and don’t take this as a challenge to come up with an alias that an idiot like me couldn’t bust.  You are a pitiful excuse for a human being, and getting more so rapidly. Also, what kind of idiot would poison a perfectly good pizza with heavy cream?

Response:

Who cares?   You came on with all the same errors he did, so whether or not you’re him is immaterial to those of us who are or are studying to be assholes. Maybe you were twins separated at birth?   …and I`m not leaving.

Okay. Your Bug

Not mine.  It can take years of good posts and good manners to make me mellow out.   For my first 5 years or so of electronic communications I was regarded as kindly and forgiving.  I got over it.  For the next 5 years or so, I only took out after the occasional user who reminded me of a horde of black flies.  I got over that, too.  Now I can take offense at mere gnats, if their timing is right and their promise is of growth. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

…and I`m not leaving.

Wow, are you pathetic.  You even went to the trouble of locating the incorrect apostrophe on your keyboard.  Really sad.

Response:

Nicely done. Though, in truth, you needn’t have bothered, as with the possible exception of Citizen Luser himself, everyone here knew he and "nolio" were one and the same pathetic moron f*ckwit… /daytripper (On him from the jump.)

It’s kind of like a sore festering under a bandage.  You know it’s ugly, but you just have to lift the bandage to look anyway. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

find other posts from this gentleman. He lives in Iowa. However, he did make a purchase on eBay… In fact, do a search on Michael Collier, and see how common that name is. Admittedly, the coincidence is stunning. Very sloppy investigative work, though. You did not complete your research. You would get torn apart on cross-examination. Anyway, good luck, Bug. We will see how long you can withstand the constant affronts to your common sense. This is one weird place. — Citizen Fisherman I promote Waterloo rods www.waterloorods.com

Response:

Snookered again Collier, you whacko.

I’ve come across some pathetic losers on Usenet, but Collier takes the prize.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and I`m not leaving. Your Bug Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away. Snookered again Collier, you whacko. Simple google search "nolio collier" points me to this page: http://www.cdkitchen.com/rfr/data/915228089.shtml There, the following is posted Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes If you’ve ever been to the Italian pizza restaurant Bertucci’s and dared to try one of their more unusual pizzas, you may be familar with this pizza which contains no tomato sauce…. Bertucci’s Nolio Pizza 1 medium yellow onion 1 tsp white pepper 1 cup heavy cream 1/2 lemon 1 – 1 1/2 cup shredded prosciutto 1 1/2 cup shredded mozzarella cheese 1 package Pilsbury pizza dough (or home made). Olive oil. Preheat oven to 400 F. Boil heavy cream until thickened. Add white pepper and the juice from a half of a lemon.   Slice onion very thin so that you are left with rings. Saute onion rings in olive oil until they are starting to get brown. Assemble pizza as follows: Unroll pizza dough onto a non-stick pizza pan. Add cheese, then prosciutto. (I like to add some pepperoni slices too).  Add the cream mixture at a time to the pizza, a tablespoon at a time, forming little puddles spread around the pizza. Drain the onions and put them on last. They will continue to carmelize as the pizza bakes.   Bake 8-10 minutes. Don’t over bake. You don’t want to "dry out" the pizza. You are sick, Collier.  Your need to be accepted is pitiful.  Print out these threads of the last couple of weeks, and take them to your shrink.   Tell him/her that you seek acceptance on ROFF because your frat brothers never accepted you, and beg him for help. Save your pride, and don’t take this as a challenge to come up with an alias that an idiot like me couldn’t bust.  You are a pitiful excuse for a human being, and getting more so rapidly.

Nicely done. Though, in truth, you needn’t have bothered, as with the possible exception of Citizen Luser himself, everyone here knew he and "nolio" were one and the same pathetic moron f*ckwit… /daytripper (On him from the jump.)

Response:

…and I`m not leaving. Your Bug

Response:

…and I`m not leaving. Your Bug

Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away.

Response:

…and I`m not leaving.

Your stuff is much more interesting than the cross posted environmental drivel.

Response:

…and I`m not leaving. Your Bug Whatever.  Don’t get fixated on it and it will go away.

Snookered again Collier, you whacko. Simple google search "nolio collier" points me to this page: http://www.cdkitchen.com/rfr/data/915228089.shtml There, the following is posted Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes If you’ve ever been to the Italian pizza restaurant Bertucci’s and dared to try one of their more unusual pizzas, you may be familar with this pizza which contains no tomato sauce…. Bertucci’s Nolio Pizza 1 medium yellow onion 1 tsp white pepper 1 cup heavy cream 1/2 lemon 1 – 1 1/2 cup shredded prosciutto 1 1/2 cup shredded mozzarella cheese 1 package Pilsbury pizza dough (or home made). Olive oil. Preheat oven to 400 F. Boil heavy cream until thickened. Add white pepper and the juice from a half of a lemon.   Slice onion very thin so that you are left with rings. Saute onion rings in olive oil until they are starting to get brown. Assemble pizza as follows: Unroll pizza dough onto a non-stick pizza pan. Add cheese, then prosciutto. (I like to add some pepperoni slices too).  Add the cream mixture at a time to the pizza, a tablespoon at a time, forming little puddles spread around the pizza. Drain the onions and put them on last. They will continue to carmelize as the pizza bakes.   Bake 8-10 minutes. Don’t over bake. You don’t want to "dry out" the pizza. You are sick, Collier.  Your need to be accepted is pitiful.  Print out these threads of the last couple of weeks, and take them to your shrink.   Tell him/her that you seek acceptance on ROFF because your frat brothers never accepted you, and beg him for help. Save your pride, and don’t take this as a challenge to come up with an alias that an idiot like me couldn’t bust.  You are a pitiful excuse for a human being, and getting more so rapidly. Also, what kind of idiot would poison a perfectly good pizza with heavy cream? — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Also, what kind of idiot would poison a perfectly good pizza with heavy cream?

It’s pretty popular actually.  Not something you would want to eat all the time, but it can be pretty tasty!

Response:

Question:

central PA. Third week of July. Need guide and/or boat rental info,

http://www.billsguideservice.com/ RichZ

Question:

On the subject of trolling, I posted a rather obviously titled post last week, in which I described trollers using a fishing analogy. They are in it to see what they can catch – they like seeing how many people they can get to respond or get annoyed. The sad things is that the trolls that seem to catch all the attention are the ones that are about as subtle as dynamite fishing. It can be quite enjoyable to follow a troll thread if it started as fly-fishing and is cuningly crafted, but that is not usually the case – people continue to chase the sticks of dynamite that float down through the pond. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…..I don’t necessarily advocate reporting obvious trolls, as generally they will get bored and move on independently (as long as people tend to ignore them). People who stay for the sole purpose of harassing individual members of a group, or who engage in activities counter to the charter or FAQ (if existent) are fair game for anyone, though. You reap what you sow, and that sort of thing. —   Annette http://www.technogirl.net

Response:

did i say you can’t have an opinion? where did you see that in my comment? besides your off topic

off topic as it is – the debates about who – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – should say what are the longest threads on the NG – is it a case of talk one idea, do another – by the way – the net is not private, nor is it free – and the stupidity that surrounds the topic of what can  and can’t be said, is not much different than the constant nikon, minolta pentax abusiveness and brand loyalty name calling Carl, Complaining about threads that are seen to be off topic is part of the debate. Just as people on rec.photo.equipment.35mm can use the forum to complain about each other, so may others point to the fact that the NG’s main aim (in their minds) is to discuss 35mm equipment. I am not trying to exercise censorship but am exercising my right to an opinion. I cannot and would not want to stop this NG from evolving into rec.photo.bickering if that’s what people want. But surely I am allowed to have my say in the development. PT

Response:

i find it interesting that – off topic as it is – the debates about who should say what are the longest threads on the NG – is it a case of talk one idea, do another – by the way – the net is not private, nor is it free – and the stupidity that surrounds the topic of what can  and can’t be said, is not much different than the constant nikon, minolta pentax abusiveness and brand loyalty name calling

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I for one am sick of the way this NG is being abused by idiotic small boys who want to use it for their imbecile games. The purpose of this group is to discuss 35 mm equipment. Unfortunately 35mm is about the size of some contributors’ brains. Let’s get back to camera talk please. The little boys can continue their backbiting elsewhere. Please don’t abuse net freedom by subjecting the rest of us to your infantile behaviour. Patty

Response:

should say what are the longest threads on the NG – is it a case of talk one idea, do another – by the way – the net is not private, nor is it free – and the stupidity that surrounds the topic of what can  and can’t be said, is not much different than the constant nikon, minolta pentax abusiveness and brand loyalty name calling

Carl, Complaining about threads that are seen to be off topic is part of the debate. Just as people on rec.photo.equipment.35mm can use the forum to complain about each other, so may others point to the fact that the NG’s main aim (in their minds) is to discuss 35mm equipment. I am not trying to exercise censorship but am exercising my right to an opinion. I cannot and would not want to stop this NG from evolving into rec.photo.bickering if that’s what people want. But surely I am allowed to have my say in the development. PT

Response:

You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. But you can’t position your soap box on the private property of someone who doesn’t want you there. If he kicks you off his property and tells you to set up your soapbox on your own property, that is *not* censorship.

Are you comparing your private property with the usenet? There are private email lists. You can create one anytime you like. Just go to topica.com or onelist.com. Then it will be all yours and you will be the dictator. But here, you are not- this is not your private property. And of course there are moderated lists. This is not.

Response:

PLONK !!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, please. It’s not "censorship" or anything remotely like that. There’s a big difference between censorship and stopping someone from deliberately annoying all the users in a newsgroup every day for weeks on end. As for "ignoring" him, that’s what filters are for, but he started changing his name for the express purpose of defeating such filters. He has been determined to annoy people, and his posts have had no other goal or content. That has nothing to do with "freedom of speech." Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people, within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage. When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity. Neil — There’s a disturbance in the Force, Luke! Somewhere in the galaxy, someone must  have misused the term "prime lens" again. Censorship is not the answer. Ignoring is. Freedom of speech comes with a price. — Joe  Zorzin

Response:

Joseph Zorzin skrev: Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people, within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage. When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity.

It is not that simple. Freedom of speech does not mean the right to cause other people costs, for example. SpeedOfDarkness type of sustained personal attacks would *never* happen in the free press, nor would a magazine feel that it was his right to get a free page now and then to display his message. I don’t belive radio stations or TV channels would think they was obliged to send his rants either. My problem (a very small problem, mostly of principal nature, not practical) is that I can’t choose to not listen, that is,  I pay the cost of conveying the message, not SOD – and I have no real control over that cost. This is a Internet type of problem that wasn’t foreseen by the founding fathers, likely. I mean, what would you like to pay for your photo magazine page by page, not knowing if the next page is reasonably on topic or just a advertisment or a lunatic personal vendetta ? The ‘Net is remarkably anarchistic and "free", but there are conventions that better be followed anyway. — Anders Svensson

Response:

Steve skrev: Am I missing something here?  Since when is the Internet "private property?"

It is the combined property of those owning the infrastructure, and those who use it. Anarchy’s positive side is that anything can be tried once, the backside is that the sanctions can be weird, unusual and painful as they are not balanced by legislative and judicial forces. — Anders Svensson

Response:

Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people,

No. Freedom of speech is not about annoying people, and just repeating the same insults day after day, week after week, flooding the newsgroup with that juvenile crap, has nothing to do with freedom of speech. within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything.

Try it and see. Depending on the city, you may or may not be able to get away with that. There are laws against making a nuisance of yourself. Other people have rights too, including the right not to be pestered continuously by someone who is just trying to bother them. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment.

No, it is not. You are trivializing an important right if you think it is there to enable people to annoy other people. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage.

How do you know? Are you authorized to decide what does or does not hurt or damage other people? When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity.

On the contrary, your post shows yours. It is only the very juvenile who believe people have some "right" to annoy other people. Neil — There’s a terrible disturbance in the Force, Luke! Somewhere in the galaxy, someone must be misusing the term "prime lens" again.

Response:

Am I missing something here?  Since when is the Internet "private property?" But you can’t position your soap box on the private property of someone who doesn’t want you there. If he kicks you off his property and tells you to set up your soapbox on your own property, that is *not* censorship.

The servers, man, the servers all belong to somebody.  Many are the property of public universities–and those do have the right to limit what is stored on them.  Others are wholly private, owned by companies or private universities in most cases.  Some others are owned by non- US governments that don’t have the First Amendment. — Kirk "Nothing is foolproof. Fools are too ingenious" -RAH <I really am at home if you want to reply by e-mail

Response:

You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything.

But you can’t position your soap box on the private property of someone who doesn’t want you there. If he kicks you off his property and tells you to set up your soapbox on your own property, that is *not* censorship. — Kirk "Nothing is foolproof. Fools are too ingenious" -RAH <I really am at home if you want to reply by e-mail

Response:

Am I missing something here?  Since when is the Internet "private property?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But you can’t position your soap box on the private property of someone who doesn’t want you there. If he kicks you off his property and tells you to set up your soapbox on your own property, that is *not* censorship.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, please. It’s not "censorship" or anything remotely like that. There’s a big difference between censorship and stopping someone from deliberately annoying all the users in a newsgroup every day for weeks on end. As for "ignoring" him, that’s what filters are for, but he started changing his name for the express purpose of defeating such filters. He has been determined to annoy people, and his posts have had no other goal or content. That has nothing to do with "freedom of speech." Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people, within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage. When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity.

That isn’t really the point. The "first amendment" argument implies that everyone must by necessity be in the US, which is ridiculous. The Internet is global. The only rules that matter are the ones put in place by an individual’s provider (your comment "within some limits"), and they are not bound by any first amendment claims (even US providers), since they are private entities.  Every ISP has an acceptable use policy that prohibits certain types of acitivites. Earthlink has an AUP which includes the following: (Under items that constitute a violation of Eartlink’s AUP) d. Harassment. Using the Services to transmit any material (by email, uploading, posting, or otherwise) that harasses another. … m. News. EarthLink Members should use their best judgment when posting to any newsgroup. Many groups have charters, published guidelines, FAQs, or "community standards" describing what is and is not considered appropriate. Usenet can be a valuable resource if used properly. The continued posting of off-topic articles is prohibited. Commercial advertisements are off-topic in most newsgroups, especially regional groups not specifically named for such. The presence of such articles in a group is not indicative of the group’s "intended" use. Please familiarize yourself with basic USENET netiquette before posting to a newsgroup. I don’t necessarily advocate reporting obvious trolls, as generally they will get bored and move on independently (as long as people tend to ignore them). People who stay for the sole purpose of harassing individual members of a group, or who engage in activities counter to the charter or FAQ (if existent) are fair game for anyone, though. You reap what you sow, and that sort of thing. —   Annette http://www.technogirl.net

Response:

Oh, please. It’s not "censorship" or anything remotely like that. There’s a big difference between censorship and stopping someone from deliberately annoying all the users in a newsgroup every day for weeks on end. As for "ignoring" him, that’s what filters are for, but he started changing his name for the express purpose of defeating such filters. He has been determined to annoy people, and his posts have had no other goal or content. That has nothing to do with "freedom of speech."

Sure it does. That’s what freedom of speech is all about- the freedom to annoy people, within some limits. You can stand on a soapbox on the street corner and rant on all you want about anything. That will annoy lots of people. But that’s the first amendment. Messages that you don’t like aren’t really hurting you any, they aren’t causing you any damage. When you complain about such things; that shows your immaturity. Neil — There’s a disturbance in the Force, Luke! Somewhere in the galaxy, someone must  have misused the term "prime lens" again. Censorship is not the answer. Ignoring is. Freedom of speech comes with a price.

– Joe  Zorzin

Response:

Most of the questionable material is not offensive, but it can be annoying. However,  I don’t think that a sender’s ISP would have any basis to intervene.

It should be in the ISP’s terms of service, but responsible providers will not tolerate their members spamming anyone, including newsgroups, and especially not with abusive and offensive off-topic posts. One person’s spam is another person’s treat and I get nervous about wholesale restriction of these posts. That is not in the internet spirit either. The best solution: If the thread is annoying to you, don’t read it.

The offender in this case has already gone far beyond what any ISP should tolerate. The fact that he now has taken to changing his name here for the express purpose of preventing annoyed users from filtering him out, puts him well beyond the bounds of what anyone should be willing to tolerate. Neil

Response:

Maybe we should rename the NG. Something like rec.character.assasination? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I for one am sick of the way this NG is being abused by idiotic small boys who want to use it for their imbecile games. The purpose of this group is to discuss 35 mm equipment. Unfortunately 35mm is about the size of some contributors’ brains. Let’s get back to camera talk please. The little boys can continue their backbiting elsewhere. Please don’t abuse net freedom by subjecting the rest of us to your infantile behaviour. Patty

Response:

Censorship is not the answer. Ignoring is. Freedom of speech comes with a price.

Response:

Oh, please. It’s not "censorship" or anything remotely like that. There’s a big difference between censorship and stopping someone from deliberately annoying all the users in a newsgroup every day for weeks on end. As for "ignoring" him, that’s what filters are for, but he started changing his name for the express purpose of defeating such filters. He has been determined to annoy people, and his posts have had no other goal or content. That has nothing to do with "freedom of speech." Neil — There’s a disturbance in the Force, Luke! Somewhere in the galaxy, someone must  have misused the term "prime lens" again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Censorship is not the answer. Ignoring is. Freedom of speech comes with a price.

Response:

I for one am sick of the way this NG is being abused by idiotic small boys who want to use it for their imbecile games. The purpose of this group is to discuss 35 mm equipment. Unfortunately 35mm is about the size of some contributors’ brains. Let’s get back to camera talk please. The little boys can continue their backbiting elsewhere. Please don’t abuse net freedom by subjecting the rest of us to your infantile behaviour. Patty

Response:

Most of the questionable material is not offensive, but it can be annoying. However,  I don’t think that a sender’s ISP would have any basis to intervene. One person’s spam is another person’s treat and I get nervous about wholesale restriction of these posts. That is not in the internet spirit either. The best solution: If the thread is annoying to you, don’t read it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Again, there is something offended individuals can do.  Sorry about the fact that I am posting this three times on different threads, but all the threads deal with the same problem of flaming and spamming going on in this newsgroup.  I wanted to be sure people know that abuse addresses exist for a reason, and should be used when they really need to be.  Clearly, this NG has been abused, thus, people should make official complaints about it.  Posting "please stop" will not stop these individuals.  Writing their ISP might, however. Actually, the complaint email address you mention is not private or secretive. If you look at the full headers for any of speed’s posts, you will find that the really want to lodge a complaint, you must forward copies of his offending threads WITH FULL HEADERS to the abuse email address you mentioned.  Only if you do this will Earthlink be able to find out exactly who he is and how to stop him — if they care, which it is possible they won’t.  Earthlink is a very large organization, and they will not likely disable his account with only one complaint.  It will require numerous emails to Earthlink from others like you who have been spammed and flamed by this individual.  Without the full headers, however, Earthlink will have no idea who he is.  You’ve made a good first step, however.  I am also sending this to another newsgroup to which he has offended as well. I think it is a real shame that individuals like "speed of darkness" have so much time on their hands to bring down the quality of the internet and the flow of free communication and speech.  And if they do have that much time, that they choose to spend it the way they do.  Unfortunately, there is little that we can do about it but complain. Truthfully, the only way to really deal with it, other than lodging complaints to the organization he comes from, is to just ignore his posts.  He replies when you reply, and that’s how these unending threads of flaming and spamming get started.  True, he is to blame largely for this whole mess, but we dont’ have to play along with it. I encourage anyone who has been seriously bothered by his posts to send a Earthlink will take care of it, as it is in their hands. Andrew Stoeckley I for one am sick of the way this NG is being abused by idiotic small boys who want to use it for their imbecile games. The purpose of this group is to discuss 35 mm equipment. Unfortunately 35mm is about the size of some contributors’ brains. Let’s get back to camera talk please. The little boys can continue their backbiting elsewhere. Please don’t abuse net freedom by subjecting the rest of us to your infantile behaviour. Patty

Response:

Question:

Here in Missouri we use a fly called a "mullberry" made to loof like rotting/floating mulberries, which carp eat. Don’t ask me how to make them, I just buy them. At the right time of year at local lakes and ponds carp can be great fun.

Never made a mulberry fly, but I’ve eaten millions of the berries.  I imagine some coarse purple chenille or yarn wound around a hook to about 3/4" length and 1/2" or so diameter would do just fine.

Response:

"Round and round the mulberry bush. like a teddy bear,  one step two steps, watch out for that crap there " Modification of an old  childrens rhyme, which seemed to fit some of the present threads, and my mood ! By the way, "millions of the berries", assuming a weight of a third of an ounce per berry and two million berries = 41,666 lbs. of berries or 18,94 metric Tonnes  ! Personally I think that would give me the shits !

Third of an ounce per berry is a gross over-estimation.  It’s probably a lot closer to thirty per ounce.  On the other hand, a half pound or so WILL give you the shits…….well, it has me anyway; many times.  Some things are worth the price though.                   p.s.  Aside from the distaste some might have for using bait, the naturals are simply much too good to waste on carp; no one can can truly say that he or she has lived a full life before sampling a well made mulberry pie!

Response:

"Round and round the mulberry bush. like a teddy bear,  one step two steps, watch out for that crap there " Modification of an old  childrens rhyme, which seemed to fit some of the present threads, and my mood ! By the way, "millions of the berries", assuming a weight of a third of an ounce per berry and two million berries = 41,666 lbs. of berries or 18,94 metric Tonnes  ! Personally I think that would give me the shits ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Ok guys, stay on topic, it’s "CARP" not "CRAP" <Gjim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Round and round the mulberry bush. like a teddy bear,  one step two steps, watch out for that crap there " Modification of an old  childrens rhyme, which seemed to fit some of the present threads, and my mood ! By the way, "millions of the berries", assuming a weight of a third of an ounce per berry and two million berries = 41,666 lbs. of berries or 18,94 metric Tonnes  ! Personally I think that would give me the shits ! Third of an ounce per berry is a gross over-estimation.  It’s probably a lot closer to thirty per ounce.  On the other hand, a half pound or so WILL give you the shits…….well, it has me anyway; many times.  Some things are worth the price though.                   p.s.  Aside from the distaste some might have for using bait, the naturals are simply much too good to waste on carp; no one can can truly say that he or she has lived a full life before sampling a well made mulberry pie!

Response:

I usually fish yarn more than anything else. I’ve had suckers in a river so thick that they are bumpin into your waders, and you cannot even make a drift without snagging or picking up a sucker. Thats when I head to the white water. The steelhead like that heavy water, and the suckers usually will fall back in the slack water.       Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Suckers, the ones with a "down-turned sucker mouth" will readily take a nymph. Much to my surprise, I caught one in brook trout water fishing a big stonefly nymph.  That sucker (pun intended) took off on a great run through a big pool. I thought I had a good size brookie on until I got it in closer.  Must have weighed about 5 pounds.   A couple of friends saw me from a distance and later asked me how big was "that brookie".  I said it was a 4 pounder.  <g Dave LaCourse Don’t laugh but I’ve caught suckers on streamers.  There’s one heavy chute on the Credit that’s tough to fish using regular streamer methods.  I’d dead drift streamers like nymphs using a sinktip and some weight for the steelhead that like to sit on the bottom.  Every now and again, I’d feel a pull rather than a strike, set the hook and up would come one pissed off sucker.  These weren’t foul hookups, the suckers were taking the streamers.  I figure that it was one of two thinks, the suckers were acting territorial or that they feed on dead, drifting minnows.  Hooked up about five suckers but never did get a steelie that day. Peter

Response:

We were fishing right on the bottom, so I don’t know if the carp actually took the fly or if it was nestled in the aquatic vegetation upon which he was a munch’n.

I have landed several here in farm/subdivision ponds and at Callaway Gardens here in west Georgia. All of my fish have taken topwater deer-hair flys – I think they look like grass to them.  The approach & presentation must be very stealthy – grass carp are very spooky when feeding on top. Here’s on of them – http://kje.home.mindspring.com/grass_carp.htm

Response:

I have landed several here in farm/subdivision ponds and at Callaway Gardens here in west Georgia. All of my fish have taken topwater deer-hair flys – I think they look like grass to them.  The approach & presentation must be very stealthy – grass carp are very spooky when feeding on top. Here’s on of them – http://kje.home.mindspring.com/grass_carp.htm

That’s a great looking fish, Kent. Aren’t those big scales fabulous? Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I have landed several here in farm/subdivision ponds http://kje.home.mindspring.com/grass_carp.htm

I bet landing that sucker was a blast.  How does a small farm/subdivision "pond" support several fish of that size? I have to assume that once they devour all the grass, fry are next on their menu…. do these ponds have any other fish left in them? jim

Response:

Though I’ve never caught one, the "Carp on a Fly" book claims that grass carp, although known for eating plants, will readily eat other food, insects, nymphs, and whatever. They actually have less of a down-turned "sucker" mouth than normal carp, and thus can take live prey more easily (I assume).

Last week, I had one take a generic black wooly bugger just under the surface, sight casted to him just after sunset as they began rolling up on the surface.  Awesome fight for a 3-4lb fish in a restricted, snag-free channel.

Response:

Jon Cook writes: Though I’ve never caught one, the "Carp on a Fly" book claims that grass carp, although known for eating plants, will readily eat other food, insects, nymphs, and whatever. They actually have less of a down-turned "sucker" mouth than normal carp, and thus can take live prey more easily (I assume).

Suckers, the ones with a "down-turned sucker mouth" will readily take a nymph. Much to my surprise, I caught one in brook trout water fishing a big stonefly nymph.  That sucker (pun intended) took off on a great run through a big pool. I thought I had a good size brookie on until I got it in closer.  Must have weighed about 5 pounds.   A couple of friends saw me from a distance and later asked me how big was "that brookie".  I said it was a 4 pounder.  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

Here in Missouri we use a fly called a "mullberry" made to loof like rotting/floating mulberries, which carp eat. Don’t ask me how to make them, I just buy them. At the right time of year at local lakes and ponds carp can be great fun.

Response:

Suckers, the ones with a "down-turned sucker mouth" will readily take a nymph. Much to my surprise, I caught one in brook trout water fishing a big stonefly nymph.  That sucker (pun intended) took off on a great run through a big pool. I thought I had a good size brookie on until I got it in closer.  Must have weighed about 5 pounds.   A couple of friends saw me from a distance and later asked me how big was "that brookie".  I said it was a 4 pounder.  <g Dave LaCourse

Don’t laugh but I’ve caught suckers on streamers.  There’s one heavy chute on the Credit that’s tough to fish using regular streamer methods.  I’d dead drift streamers like nymphs using a sinktip and some weight for the steelhead that like to sit on the bottom.  Every now and again, I’d feel a pull rather than a strike, set the hook and up would come one pissed off sucker.  These weren’t foul hookups, the suckers were taking the streamers.  I figure that it was one of two thinks, the suckers were acting territorial or that they feed on dead, drifting minnows.  Hooked up about five suckers but never did get a steelie that day. Peter

Response:

Two years ago the DNR stocked my local fishing hole with grass eating carp in an effort to control the grass/hydrilla. That’s another story…. Wednesday I planned to fish after work and talked my fishing buddy into joining me. He did not have anything with him so he would use one of my rods (Sage 5wt). We hit the water about 3 PM and the fishing was great, in about two hours we had hooked about 100 gills and crappie. Then he set the hook into what turned out to be about a 20 LB carp (my guess). I have been told by DNR that these damn things eat 6 times their body weight each day and grow like hell. I swear the thing was 3 feet long, I don’t remember ever catching a carp and had no idea what they fought like. It did not make any big runs, just short spurts and then unbelievable jumps like a salmon or trout. It made one run directly under the boat and jumped on the other side, at this point his rod (my Sage) was half submerged and bent under the boat, all I could do was yell "Let it run and damn it, don’t break my rod". It made one more beautiful jump and straightened the hook. He was using 4LB tippet with a #12 wooly. Ugly fish but a sight to see. We were fishing right on the bottom, so I don’t know if the carp actually took the fly or if it was nestled in the aquatic vegetation upon which he was a munch’n. Gawd, those leaps were spectacular jim

Response:

Question:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Downstream, IMHO. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Bob, I don’t know that there’s a difinitive answer to your question, but I prefer to keep the staff on my upstream side. It simply feels more stable to me. George Adams

Response:

Well Bob Rose, you got two different answers/opinions: <<Downstream, IMHO. <<Bob, I don’t know that there’s a difinitive answer to your question, but I prefer to keep the staff on my upstream side. It simply feels more stable to me. I favor the downstream, because as George says, "it simply feels more stable".  I can lean into it if need be and if I slip, it is down- stream from me so that I can get a better purchase if I lose it.   Having said this, I *have* used it up-stream, but in "kinder, gentler" water.  <g Dave L.

Response:

Wading in difficult water takes planning. the important thing is to hold it in your right hand – if right handed, for the best grip – then keep the staff to the right side of your body. If the water flows from right to left and you are right handed . Putting the staff downstream will put it across your body – you can trip on it then. Wading very heavy water you’ll  want to lean into the wading staff for extra support as you move one foot – get a firm footing – move the other foot – get a firm footing and then move the staff. – you’ll be leaning into it downstream to minimize the force of the current. In such situations orient yourself downstream and crab walk side ways heading across and somehwat downstream.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

Let’s make that three different answers/opinions Dave, I am right handed and prefer to keep the wading staff in my right hand at all times. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well Bob Rose, you got two different answers/opinions: <<Downstream, IMHO. <<Bob, I don’t know that there’s a difinitive answer to your question, but I prefer to keep the staff on my upstream side. It simply feels more stable to me. I favor the downstream, because as George says, "it simply feels more stable".  I can lean into it if need be and if I slip, it is down- stream from me so that I can get a better purchase if I lose it. Having said this, I *have* used it up-stream, but in "kinder, gentler" water.  <g Dave L.

Response:

I favor the downstream, because as George says, "it simply feels more stable".  I can lean into it if need be and if I slip, it is down- stream from me so that I can get a better purchase if I lose it.   Having said this, I *have* used it up-stream, but in "kinder, gentler" water.  <g Dave L.

In heavy current, always downstream for balance no matter what the hand.  On rocky, uneven bottoms in slower water, the right hand for strength.  On sharply sloping bottoms (a.k.a. the wing dam,) down slope side.  I also use it to climb in and out of the water on steep banks (right hand.) Peter

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Well, if you’re wading, the directions that mainly seem to matter are upstream and downstream. And, well, if through some herculean (‘fortenberrian?’) effort, you manage to fall upstream, you’re soon enough going to be headed downstream with that whole current thing going on. So, for me, it stands to reason, in lieu of exceptional circumstances, you’d pretty much want that baby sticking out on your downstream side. Can’t we all just get along? – sid

Response:

Peter Charlles: <<I also use it to climb in and out of the water on steep banks (right hand.) And a machete in your left hand to cut through the mountain laurel.  <g Dave L.

Response:

Hello Bob: Always put your staff up stream and be wary of wading down stream. Sometimes you can wade down current but find you cannot wade back up current. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

My problem with a staff has always been what to do with the damn thing when I’m not using it — hang it over my back (it slips off), let it float (it bangs on rocks and tries to trip me). Always glad to have it when I need it though…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Bob: Always put your staff up stream and be wary of wading down stream. Sometimes you can wade down current but find you cannot wade back up current. Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

_______  Wading Staff can be replaced with a Wading Cane.  These have a crook in the handle which can be draped over one arm, a shoulder or hooked into the top of a set of chest waders.   There is no such thing as the ‘carefree’ wading staff or cane.  But a wading cane does offer different ways to hang or carry them out of the way. Mr. G.

Response:

Palmer writes:

<<My problem with a staff has always been what to do with the damn thing when I’m not using it — hang it over my back (it slips off), let it float (it bangs on rocks and tries to trip me). Always glad to have it when I need it though… I know a ffer who has wrapped and taped foam over the handle, and the staff floats harmlessly out of his way.  The  collapsable type are easy to fold up when not in use, but a pain to take the time to do so.  It’s a big trade-off — if you need it, you will have to put up with a little inconvenience.  In the water I fish, I can’t live without it.  <g Dave L.

Response:

In heavy current, always downstream for balance no matter what the hand.

Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony,    That was  spoken like a man who has learned the art of wading fast water the hard way. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In heavy current, always downstream for balance no matter what the hand. Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I usually keep mine high up in the air flailing as I’m falling – usually in 1 foot or less of water.  Funny, I bought the thing so I wouldn’t fall in, but I have only fallen in when I’m using a staff. Maybe I’m less careful when using a staff? When I’m not falling I like to use it on both sides – the side opposite the foot I’m moving- and I push on the staff to balance back to that foot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Some of us make sure our feet are planted before we lift our staffs. Peter

Response:

Tony Deacon: Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines,

Crap back at ya, Tony.  <g  With it down stream you *are* leaning into the current, both hands on the pole if necessary.  You are pushing yourself into the current with it down-stream.  If the pole should slip up-stream, you’re gonna have a tuff time replanting it. Not so on a down stream plant.  Besides, as Peter has said, make sure you feet are planted before you lift the staff (regardless it is up or down-stream). Dave L.

Response:

Tony Deacon: Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Crap back at ya, Tony.  <g  With it down stream you *are* leaning into the current, both hands on the pole if necessary.  

I read something not long ago about wading staff use and it made what seemed at the time to be a pretty good argument for upstream use. I’ll try to remember where I read it. — Charlie…

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording?

I can’t imagine it makes much difference so long as it keeps you right side up, but I use mine on the downstream side, usually. Joe F.

Response:

Tony,   That was  spoken like a man who has learned the art of wading fast water the hard way.

You bet Ernie! I have ‘dan grade’ in falling in, which I’ve practised since an early age. It doesn’t bother me much (I swim like a fish) and sometimes I quite like the adventure. But as I get older, priorities change and I’m not quite so keen on a ducking in Scotland in February. Besides, fishing time is precious (and expensive) and I’ve better things to be doing than admiring the view as I float off towards Aberdeen or the Moray Firth. Back to topic: I use lead shot loaded ski poles as wading staffs, with an over shoulder lanyard attached to the TOP of the pole handle (where the wrist strap of a ski pole normally attaches). This way, the staff can ‘trail’ unobtrusively out-of-the-way when not needed. Wading staffs usually have the lanyard attached below the handle, which creates an irritating angle between lanyard and handle that catches the fly line/fences/bushes/gate bars, etc. I can catch up my staff easily without looking because the lanyard is exactly the right length: I just hook my thumb under the lanyard; push out my arm to full stretch and close my hand. The grip of the pole is always right there. I’ll say this again: in REALLY strong current, you need the full advantage of the triangular base formed by your feet and the wading staff, with the staff and your centre of gravity UPSTREAM of your feet. You should be leaning on the pole and INTO the current. Every placement of foot or staff has to be careful, but you can’t afford to dither. Once you lose it, it’s very hard to recover … and then you’re off sightseeing. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony,    Sounds like an effective outfit, thanks for the tips.  I might add that I find Cross Country Ski Poles are better to use for wading staffs because they are longer. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

<snip I use lead shot loaded ski poles as wading staffs, with an

over shoulder lanyard attached to the TOP of the pole handle (where the wrist strap of a ski pole normally attaches). This way, the staff can ‘trail’ unobtrusively out-of-the-way when not needed. Wading staffs usually have the lanyard attached below the handle, which creates an irritating angle between lanyard and handle that catches the fly line/fences/bushes/gate bars, etc. I can catch up my staff easily without looking because the lanyard is exactly the right length: I just hook my thumb under the lanyard; push out my arm to full stretch and close my hand. The grip of the pole is always right there. I’ll say this again: in REALLY strong current, you need the full advantage of the triangular base formed by your feet and the wading staff, with the staff and your centre of gravity UPSTREAM of your feet. You should be leaning on the pole and INTO the current. Every placement of foot or staff has to be careful, but you can’t afford to dither. Once you lose it, it’s very hard to recover … and then you’re off sightseeing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony,   Sounds like an effective outfit, thanks for the tips.  I might add that I find Cross Country Ski Poles are better to use for wading staffs because they are longer.

Yes, those are the ones I use too. TL, Tony Deacon

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Down stream side with a landyard long enought to just reach the handle of the staff.   I would buy old ski poles and pull the bottom gizmo off, then drill a hole in the handle for the landyard……it works great, and cheap. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Hi, I maybe heading to the Lower Deschutes during the third week in May.  Does anyone know what I can expect as to the fishing that time of year ?  What hatches, river levels etc.,  What weight rod would be the best ?  Any recommendations to local advice/fly shops. Thanks in advance.

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Hi, I maybe heading to the Lower Deschutes during the third week in May.  Does anyone know what I can expect as to the fishing that time of year ?  What hatches, river levels etc.,  What weight rod would be the best ?  Any recommendations to local advice/fly shops. Thanks in advance.

WIth snow levels this year, I think you can probably expect high water; snow pack is about double a normal year. A 9 foot, five weight rod with a floating line will work for most situations you’ll encounter on the Deschutes. Deep nymphing is the most consistently successful method on the lower river. The salmonfly hatch should be getting started, as well as the golden stoneflies. BIG, heavily weighted stonefly nymphs in black and gold. Black and golden stimulators for the adults. Caddis: Rhyacophilia, hydropsyche, Glossoma, Brachycentra: larvae, pupae, and adults. Mayflies: Baetis, Heptagenia, maybe some early PMDs. Midges. Local shops: The Deschutes Canyon fly shop in Maupin, The Fly Fishing Shop in Welches.

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Wayne Knight Geneva IL You’re right Wayne but Walt grew up in Florida. Somewhere in the swamps I think.

mango infested islands loaded with big tusked hogs and big, slow moving turtles.  That’s why it takes him so long to do anything and is why women love him. ; ) —

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I don’t have ten favorite flies and I would be hard pressed to just to give you the names of 30 flies.  To me "favorite fly" means the one I like best, not 10 or 30.  My favorite dry fly is a modified Horner Deer Hair, which tells you nothing because you have no idea how I modify it.  Jack Horner is the inventor of the Humpy or Goofus Bug which is my next to my favorite dry fly.  My favorite wet fly is a Western Coachnan and my favorite streamer is one of Keith Fulshers flies from his book "Tying and Fishing the Thunder Creek Series". — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PEOPLE! I didn’t want to know a 10 fly collection, I wanted to know your 10 favorite dries, your 10 favorite wets, your ten favorite nymphs, and your 10 favorite streamers. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

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PEOPLE! I didn’t want to know a 10 fly collection, I wanted to know your 10 favorite dries, your 10 favorite wets, your ten favorite nymphs, and your 10 favorite streamers. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

PERSON !!   I do not want to tell you !   Harry

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PEOPLE! I didn’t want to know a 10 fly collection, I wanted to know your 10 favorite dries, your 10 favorite wets, your ten favorite nymphs, and your 10 favorite streamers. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

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PEOPLE! I didn’t want to know a 10 fly collection, I wanted to know your 10 favorite dries, your 10 favorite wets, your ten favorite nymphs, and your 10 favorite streamers.

Now you’re telling us the rules! My fly box isn’t that big, and I can’t remember all the names, just what works. 12 green ones, 16 black, 4 red, and 8 brown. Some are multi colored but who’s counting. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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Im being hauled up to a wedding this weekend in Iron Mtn, MI. Anyone know of an accessible stream to fly fish in.  Ive got all morning Saturday and Sunday. I’d like to make this worthwhile. Please post or reply to below. — Any company and/or person sending ‘junk’ mail, comonly refered to as ‘SPAM’, to the above email address to promote or endorse any service or product that was not intially requested by the holder of the above email address agrees to the receipt of up to 20 MEG of random and possibly infected mail or files.

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Im being hauled up to a wedding this weekend in Iron Mtn, MI. Anyone know of an accessible stream to fly fish in.  Ive got all morning Saturday and Sunday. I’d like to make this worthwhile.

Actually, virtually every creek and river has trout in it.  When you go to buy a license in Wisconsin, you will receive a trout waters map showing all streams with trout in them.   Bring some Griffith’s Gnats, Blue-Wing Olives and a few Caddis’ along with whatever nymphs you like and enjoy. Jon Russell FlyFish Minnesota

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I live on the Olympic Peninsula in Port Angeles.  I fly fish most of the many streams both bank and float.  If you can’t afford a guide then try the Hoko, a small stream on the far west in near the town of Sekiu.  The upper reaches are the only fly fishing catch and release steelhead waters on the entire peninsula.  The best fly fishing on peninsula rivers is March when all the natives tend to be in the rivers.  The Hoh, Solduck, and Bochachial rivers are all good but best fished by boat.  If you stay in the town of Forks you can easily fish all these rivers from town. Drop me a line if you plan a trip and I may be able to give you more specific advice regarding patterns and places.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I am looking for information on steelhead fishing on the  Olympic  Peninsula in March.  I checked into a couple of guide services that go  out on the Sol Duc and Hoh rivers but they are simply too expensive.  I  would like some basic info on access, tackle, technique etc.  I hope that  the rivers will not be too high and will be accessible.   The best info I have is: Hoh River – Fall and Spring Chinook. Best in August. Good in May and November.  Winter Steelhead.  Best December into April.  Hwy 101 follows the river for about 8 miles. Sol Duc River – Fall and Spring Chinook.  Best in October.  Good in September, November, May and June.  Also carries both Summer and Winter Steelhead and a variety of Trout.  Mostly accessible from trails in Olympic National Park. Hope that’s some help.                    - Jewelee

Most interesting that the access is best from trails in the park where the river is small when there are 5 bridges over the lower river on Highway 101.  Where do you get your information? Mike

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 Sol Duc River – Fall and Spring Chinook.  Best in October.  Good in  September, November, May and June.  Also carries both Summer and  Winter Steelhead and a variety of Trout.  Mostly accessible from trails  in Olympic National Park.  Hope that’s some help.                        - Jewelee  Most interesting that the access is best from trails in the park where  the river is small when there are 5 bridges over the lower river on  Highway 101.  Where do you get your information?  Mike

So you’ve got 5 access points – some of them limited, I might add – on the highway.  The lower river is best fished from a boat.  Lots of the upper river in Olympic National Park is accessible.  By the way, there is nothing wrong with small water and what you consider small is to me an ideal trout stream.

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dont waste your time on areas you dont know.  Hire a guide.

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I am looking for information on steelhead fishing on the  Olympic Peninsula in March.  I checked into a couple of guide services that go out on the Sol Duc and Hoh rivers but they are simply too expensive.  I would like some basic info on access, tackle, technique etc.  I hope that the rivers will not be too high and will be accessible.   Mike, Carson City, NV –

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I am looking for information on steelhead fishing on the  Olympic Peninsula in March.  I checked into a couple of guide services that go out on the Sol Duc and Hoh rivers but they are simply too expensive.  I would like some basic info on access, tackle, technique etc.  I hope that the rivers will not be too high and will be accessible.   Mike, Carson City, NV –

I have a Western Washington Steelhead River Report on the Web. It is updated at least weekly and includes links to real time river flow information and graphs as well as a lot of recent fish stories. The URL is http://www.halcyon.com/dweitl/wwrive~1.htm Check it out and contribute to it. It is produced in conjunction with The Anadromous Page and made up by volunteers contributing their fishing knowledge. Check it out at http://www.peak.org/~robertr/fishing.html

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 I am looking for information on steelhead fishing on the  Olympic  Peninsula in March.  I checked into a couple of guide services that go  out on the Sol Duc and Hoh rivers but they are simply too expensive.  I  would like some basic info on access, tackle, technique etc.  I hope that  the rivers will not be too high and will be accessible.  

The best info I have is: Hoh River – Fall and Spring Chinook. Best in August. Good in May and November.  Winter Steelhead.  Best December into April.  Hwy 101 follows the river for about 8 miles. Sol Duc River – Fall and Spring Chinook.  Best in October.  Good in September, November, May and June.  Also carries both Summer and Winter Steelhead and a variety of Trout.  Mostly accessible from trails in Olympic National Park. Hope that’s some help.                         – Jewelee

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