Question:

Hey all, Just a quick question on the use of the float and fly.  How many of you guys use it, and how have you done?  I just bought a new rod and reel strictly for Float and Fly fishing.  I tie all my own float and fly jigs using Fox hair and Daiichi hooks.  I stick with 1/32 and 1/16 ounce.  So far I have caught a bunch of smallies and about a 6.5lb Channel cat, and of course (if you live on the Winnebago system) some sheepshead. Just thought I would "fish" for comments on the float and fly. Take care all and tight lines, Chris Rennert Oshkosh, WI

Response:

I use it some in cold water, but not a tremendous amount. I’ve caught some nice fish with it — mostly smallies. Never anything huge though. Charlie Nuckols — the man credited with popularizing the technique, if not actually devising it — was a great friend of mine, and a truly awesome smallmouth fisherman. He preached the float ‘n’ fly gospel to me, so I learned it from the best. But I never had the knack for it that he showed. I just bought a new rod and reel strictly for Float and Fly fishing.

9 footer? RichZ

Question:

I’m rather new to fly fishing and I currently carry my daily supplies in a hiking fanny pack.  This does not always seem real convenient as it does not seperate items efficiently.  Most of my fishing is in the eastern Sierra Nevada – small lakes and streams.  Some float tubing. What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

A fishing vest allows one to carry a prodigious amount of "stuff" – one heck of a lot more than you can carry using virtually any other method (that’ll still let you actually fish ;^) That’s a Pro *and* a Con. It’s soooooooo easy to end up with your vest stuffed with enough gear to open your own fly shop. If you’re the kind of person that never wants to wonder whether he should’ve brought that <fill in the blank, a vest is definitely for you. Even my "shorty" wading vest has 29 pockets! And you simply can’t have an empty pocket, dontcha know! By the end of the season it’s so overstuffed with gear it’ll stand up on its own – and if I’ve got my "lightweight" raingear and lunch stuffed in the back, the whole works weighs more than 10 pounds (whoof!) Obviously, having an entire store on-stream is the advantage (I’m talking 400+ patterns in sizes from 0 to 28, a second, matched, reel and a pair of loaded spools (four different lines total), a leader kit,  floatants, dessicant, sinkers, insect seine, bug dope, a chunk of TP in a baggy ;^)  a gooseneck light, magnifier, thermometer, various small tools and zingers). Just as obviously, carrying all that weight is the down side… OTOH, I occasionally leave the vest (and the waders) in the truck, and wet wade while wearing one of those Jungle Jim shirts. Enough room for a couple of tippet spools, a small box of flies, a bottle of floatant, a pair of snips, and a hemostat, smokes and a lighter, and the keys to the truck. Depends on where I’m fishing and whether I know the water well enough to pick out just what I need. It’s definitely enjoyable to fish "light"! Somewhere in between there’s a good compromise. Buying a vest with a more sane number of pockets is probably a step in the right direction ;^) Good luck! /daytripper

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– I’ve got a very simple way: I don’t carry much stuff. If it doesn’t fit in the two large handwarmer pockets on my Carhartts jacket and the one on my t-shirt, it doesn’t go. That cuts my load down to one fly box for wets and dries[1], one fly box for everything else[2], sunglasses, a spool of tippet material, a knife, and my smokes if that’s one of the weekends that I forget that I’m supposed to have quit. [1] I’m not sure that they’re supposed to be wet, but what else do you call a #12 parachute Adams when it sinks? [2] Yes, I’ve even used bass bugs on trout streams. They worked when _NOTHING_ else would. It’s the damdest thing. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNx18oZdiUzdLFqlpAQHouAf+LPT5ZqFPwmLeqi0J2/sGfDBvDXG/RV8e J5afy/mrSMGIJDBna0vecEfieL+njqYrRLQMXmJT9UM6c8yuXAW72KO8Nn8QA3Xk DVhpOZ72CQ9yipgFowbL13OLyygrnY5rLp3t/fO0TJxlqOrARN/jbtsNawy7g6HQ tWN70EmzQtMCfStPAs/g4DJD6a0gWFWaad+xSaQJ1BYoqQSz2N3HlyAlioG7hICf VQYyw5ociZDoZ12piVPiDaLsAOzChvKx6g3SvNZyEstR5QX9BP7l8zpQKMFi/hCq gH09LK7dp+6lkMUuf1e6925QWMQeS4lI7p8stUGfCud0BHWvHctxfg== =Qcla —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "You have the right to freedom of religion. You have the  responsibility to not knock on my door on Sunday morning." -Bill Maher

Response:

Float tubes have their own vests (most of them, except the cheapies) in the form of side pockets.  No vest or pack required.  On stream, though, a vest is still the answer for me.  Organized, roomy and comfortable.  The tendency is to overstuff. We all start to use every pocket because…well, because it is there.  Stuff like George’s different products, thermometers, two sizes of hemostats and all 6 weights of tippet can add up. A short vest is worth the investment for me.  Of course, I don’t give a rat’s behind about what is fashionable among the yuppie scum, God bless ‘em. They keep my local fly shop open and I still have fun catching fish.  As long as you’re happy… Babel

Response:

Skiroc asked:What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

  General rule:  The more room you have to put stuff in, the more stuff you’re going to haul around with you.  You don’t need that much stuff.   I’ve been happy as a clam carrying my stuff around in my little Patagucci fishing fanny pack for the past four or five years.

Response:

Stick with your fanny pack. The best piece of advice I can give you is to keep your kit down to a sensible minimum. The worst thing you can do is be persuaded into buying a vest with dozens of pockets, which you’ll feel duty-bound to fill with uneccessary items. You really don’t need the kitchen sink (in duplicate). Honest! It has taken me over thirty years to pare things down, but I’m getting there. I now travel much lighter than I used to and fishing is so much more fun. Keep it simple! Tony

Response:

(snip) I know people who use all the methods you describe for carrying their FFing gear. I’m an equipment freak instead of a minimalist so I wear a vest.

        (snip) .  Big bass bug boxes won’t fit just anywhere.

        and besides, where would a guy keep all those hilarious lawyer jokes?         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Frank Church USAF Retired Elkhart, IN

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) I know people who use all the methods you describe for carrying their FFing gear. I’m an equipment freak instead of a minimalist so I wear a vest.         (snip) .  Big bass bug boxes won’t fit just anywhere.         and besides, where would a guy keep all those hilarious lawyer jokes?         wayno And as the French say, "tooshay" Wayno.  :-) Frank Church USAF Retired Elkhart, IN

Response:

I’m rather new to fly fishing and I currently carry my daily supplies in a hiking fanny pack.  This does not always seem real convenient as it does not seperate items efficiently.  Most of my fishing is in the eastern Sierra Nevada – small lakes and streams.  Some float tubing. What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

Response:

Skiroc asked:What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

Since I live in Texas where it is often hotter’n hell I seldom wear a vest. I use a fanny pack that was made to carry a handgun. It has four pockets which give me enough separation to easily find things. If I leave the 44 at home,that one pocket holds more fly boxes than I need for any one day. I have been known to use empty hook boxes which used to hold 100 hooks hold a lot of flies of the size useful for trout or bluegill. Big Dale

Response:

I’m rather new to fly fishing and I currently carry my daily supplies in a hiking fanny pack.  This does not always seem real convenient as it does not seperate items efficiently.  Most of my fishing is in the eastern Sierra Nevada – small lakes and streams.  Some float tubing. What are the pros and cons to other methods of carrying your supplies – vests, specially made packs, shirts with lots of pockets, etc?

I know people who use all the methods you describe for carrying their FFing gear. I’m an equipment freak instead of a minimalist so I wear a vest.  Things are organized the same way, so there is no fumbling around looking for that tippet spool, nippers, etc.  If you decide on a vest, do two things before buying. . . since you float tube, consider getting a ’shorty’ vest, this will keep the lower pockets in the vest out of the water, and if you wade fish will do the same thing and, take your fly boxes with you when buying the vest to make sure they will fit the pockets.  I made that mistake once, and had to return the vest.  Big bass bug boxes won’t fit just anywhere. Frank Church USAF Retired Elkhart, IN

Response:

We had a thread on this about a month ago, which attracted dozens of responses.  You may want to try to dig it out, if it’s still up on your ISP. One basic piece of advice, avoid packs that use Velcro to seal pockets (this will eliminate most fishing vests).  The Velcro will wear out in a year of two of use, well before anything else.  Then you’ll start losing things, until you get around to replacing the Velcro or the item. As to which is better, vest or packs, I don’t think there is a single perfect answer.  It’ depends on the fishing you do. Vests are perfect if, a) all you need to carry is fishing gear — and a lot of it; and b) it’s not too hot.  Again, look for vests that use zippers not Velcro to seal pockets.  This will eliminate almost all of the less expensive vests. Chest packs are great if you don’t need to carry a lot of gear, and you get one that is comfortable (pay a lot of attention to the harness).  I have a large Orvis chest pack which, when loaded fully, is uncomfortable after an hour or so.  Other pack harnesses seem much better designed. However, more often than not I need to carry more than fishing gear, e.g. raincoat, lunch, water bottle.  If you like to fish small streams in the Eastern Sierra, and walk any distance from you car, you’re probably in the same boat. I’ve adopted a combined back-pack/chest pack by JW Outfitters.  It’s a small daypack in back, with elastic webbing to carry a jacket on the outside if the compartment fills up, and two vertical chest packs, one on each back-pack strap.  Each chest pack is large enough to hold two or three medium-large fly boxes, and there are plenty of little pockets with zippers, etc, to carry tippet, hemostats, leaders, etc., etc., etc.  Everything I used to carry in my vest (I’m neither a minimalist nor a gear-head) fit into the chest packs.  There are two built in retractors, one on the outside of each chest pack.  Minimal use of Velcro.  Cabela’s sells it in their fly fishing catalog, if your dealer can’t get if for you. Obviously designed by a fly-fisherman, I continue to  be pleased with it and to learn about little features that enhance it.  Patagonia makes a similar pack, with a larger back-pack section, but it’s much more expensive and uses Velcro to seal pockets. Michael

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Question:

anyone have experience ff the surf in San diego this time of year? I would greatly appreciate any comments–and if you live here perhaps we could get together–I am a fresh water ffman recently transported. Thanks Ron

Response:

I live in orange county and work in San Diego. I have not had much luck surf fly fishing in any so cal waters. Usually it is a matter of access. Most of the good stretches of beach are hard, if not impossible to get to. Any spots where you do have access to are WAY overcrowded by bait fisherman, A large percent looking for a family dinner. I have had great luck renting a skiff from seaforth. You can fish in mission bay, or Coronado island. Get out there with deceivers, let’em sink, then strip, strip, strip, like a mad man. Mackerel, rock fish, I even caught a baby barracuda once Seaforth also has a big boat to rent with GPS and all the goodies, so you can really get out there and hit the kelp beds. It is pricey though. Also there is a great salt fly fishing store in SD. If anyone knows, these guys do… San Diego Fly Shop. 619-283-3445. They have flys, lines, and all the stuff you need. Call them, they know the area. Note : you need a special sticker on your ca fishing license to do the salt thing. Good luck, Marc visit the Fly Fishing Zone at http://www.bookmarkzone.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – anyone have experience ff the surf in San diego this time of year? I would greatly appreciate any comments–and if you live here perhaps we could get together–I am a fresh water ffman recently transported. Thanks Ron

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Question:

check out www.walleyecentral.com and use the message board and chat room……all kinds of help – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

Response:

We can get lines down in excess of 60 feet without the use of down riggers. The advantage of down riggers is you will have a short lead and it will take less time to bring in the fish and reset. The disadvantage to down riggers is for fish like Lake erie walleye they tend to shy away unless they are down deep because the boat traffic spooks the fish. The other disadvantage is cost. Presently we are down around 50 feet using ripcord line and 0 dispel on planar boards and you can add weight if you would like to keep leads under 200 feet. You can also try 1 dipseys and they will go to 50 feet on mono and over 70 on rip cord or braided wire. The reason we use planar boards is so we can get lines away from the boat into water where the fish have not been spooked. The other advantage is you can run upto 12 poles off the planar boards without tangling. That is enough for upto 6 people. When the weather gets rough you have to run less but you can run regular dipseys . We typically run 8 planar boards an 6 dipseys when the fish are deep and when the fish are high we run 10 planar boards and 4 dipseys. Essentially planar boards are two boards connected together so when attached to a line at front of boat several feet above the water they will pull to side of boat. this allows you to let lines out back and then attach the lines to a planar clip which is typically an alligator clip with rubber pads or you can use a shower curtain and rubber bands and wrap the rubber band around the line. The secret is to get the proper rubber band. The first couple times by some from Patco but then you can go to office supply store and buy rubber bands much less expensive in bulk. When you attach the line to the clip and to the planar board line as you let additional line out it will slide down the board line when it is just above the water stop it and then set the next line leave a 20 -30 foot space in between and then when the fish hits it will swing to back of the boat. If you use a plug or diving device like a jet dive you have to release the lure by reeling don until the line is taught and slap the handle of the pole the shock will break the rubber band if you are using ripcord or wire line with mono it is more difficult because mono tends to stretch. Then let line swing to back of boat to avoid tangles and reel in. if you are running 0 dipseys off the planar boards you must release the line from the board the same way but then real the slack and release the dipsey with a firm tug and then real right away. there are different techniues for different things you use. I hope this helps. Captain Bryce Seymour Fishing has been good to very good. The fish are moving daily in past few weeks they have moved from 12 miles out into 6 miles out in one day after a storm but then as water settled down they started moving out again. Within a few days they were at 12 miles out. The main school is off of Geneva and slightly east about 20 miles out. The captains out of Fairport have another school out west of Fairport so you can see there is not just one place to fish but most people are going off shore. I main problem has been a lot of sheep head being caught with the walleye which lowers the catches. The Fairport captains are catching between 20-40 fish but would have more if they could not have to reset lines for sheep head so often. Similar numbers out of Geneva. Watermelon is a hot color and the Geneva captains tend to use more worm harnesses while the Fairport tends to use spoons as much as possible. I have also heard of a man who was taking a floating j plug putting it on his down rigger and sending it to the bottom and then release the j-plug and about half the time he would catch a nice walleye while the plug was rising to the surface. The most prominent methods have been using 0 dipseys off ripcord off the boards. Set one side at lets say 140 , 160, 180, 200 and the other at the same but put an ounce of weight in front if you see the weighted side working more than the non weighted side then look at adding an ounce or two of weight. The advantage of this technique over wire line is you can keep the leads under 200 feet so you can catch the fish and reset faster than if your setting a line back 320 feet on wire. Ripcord is a little more forgiving than wire when raping on planar boards but can still be a nuisance if you get a good tangle. Captain Bryce Seymour http://www.chartercaptain.com/hooker/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

Response:

I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers.   3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

Response:

    Planner boards float on the surface of the water and pull your lure and line out to the side of the boat like a kite in the wind. Your lure then trails behind the planer board and swims at the depth that it was designed for and depending on it’s speed in the water, length of line out and size of the line. Instructions as how to rig them up are included with the boards.     There are devices that can be added directly to your line that will dive towards the bottom (pink lady is one). There depth depends on their size, weight, speed, type lure used, length of line used for trolling and size of the line.     If you want to troll deep without a downrigger, you can use lead core line. Use the 17 lb lead core line. The stronger lead core line has the same amount of lead in it but more nylon thread so though it is stronger (about 30 lbs) it will not sink as well. Or use steel line. I found that I could get down to about 70 feet deep with steel line without using heavy weights. Keep a record of all the setups you use when trolling and when you feel that you touch bottom, check the sonar for the depth, check your trolling speed and type of equipement used etc and mark it all down in a note book. The next time you want to fish at that particular depth with that particular lure setup you will know what to do. This is how old time experienced trollers knew where their lure was when fishing. Add the fact that they memorized the bottom structure, after a few years of snagging bottom, catching fish and watching the successful fishermen for tips, helped in their fishing success.     So if you want to fish at 40 feet, rig up a line, troll over a depth of 40 feet and see what you have to do to touch bottom. Note what you did and then use the same technique the next time you see fish suspended at 40 feet.     Becoming a good troller is more difficult and takes longer than becoming a good fly fisherman. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started fishing from a boat and have a few questions. 1. How do you tell how deep your line is?  If the fish finder says that the fish are at 40 feet how do you know when your line is forty feet down? 2. What is a reasonable dept to fish without going to downriggers. 3. What are planner boards for?  How do you rig them? Thanks

Response:

Question:

Anyway, my default setting is to fish with a sink tip line, casting towards shore with a wolly bugger, sometimes a gold ribbed hair’s ear [though I've yet to catch anything with this].  Both are hauled in with a slow steady retrieve.  

You might be better off casting parallel to the bank if the bottom drops off fairly quick (and *especially* if there are rushes sticking out of the water.)  You’ll cover more water that way and you’ll be better able to keep your fly down near the bottom.  If you’re casting in towards the bank with a sink-tip, your fly will swim away from the bottom unless you pause or retrieve slower as you fish the cast out.  Personally, I think full uniform sinkers are a lot more useful for fishing wet flies, unless you want the fly to swim up pretty quick (i.e., up a drop-off.) Also, try varying your retrieve.  That’s always the first thing I change if I’m searching and nothing’s going on.  Besides, I always have better bugger luck if I fish them with at least a little snap to get the hackle pulsing. As for flies, one of my best lake patterns is just a small marabou leech, fished right off the bottom and kind of slow.  Keep your eyes out for the local bug life, though, and fish the ones that interest you. Good luck, Dave DeLacey Corvallis,Or. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aaron W.

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Any other ideas?  Flys?  I am fishing in Southwest Washington, and possibly will go near Mt. St. Hellens.

        Though we don’t see a lot of tubers here in Maine(other than potatos – yuk,yuk), we do a lot of pond and lake fishing for brook trout from canoes. Common to almost all of these ponds are Callibaetis (hatch 3 times a season and matched with Adams dry) and damselflies, both of which may be indigenous to your waters. Also present here are Hexigenia, stoneflies similar to Acroneuria, generic BWO’s, and some giant caddis species.  We have a lot of other  options as well(leeches, flying ants, scuds, cress bugs, sow bugs,etc.). I fish a pond that stays cool enough for dry flies all summer and I never fish much deeper than 8 or 10 feet, and then only because I have to.         Techniques run the gamut. 90% of my fishing is done with a floating or intermediate line.Checking with local fisherman (and observing), doing a stomach check on fish kept (yes, we will eat one now and then), using a nymph net to check for samples, are all integral to fitting the pieces of the puzzle. We give a close watch to dropoffs (potential byways for big fish) and the weedbeds (home to most of the insects.I’m sure your water may have some differences, but there may be more similarities than anyone realizes. Hope I’ve given you some ideas. Good luck….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would love to hear some advice about float tube fly fishing for trout.  I have read my share of books, had fair experience, but am still not that satisfied with the results I get.  Still love it though. Anyway, my default setting is to fish with a sink tip line, casting towards shore with a wolly bugger, sometimes a gold ribbed hair’s ear [though I've yet to catch anything with this].  Both are hauled in with a slow steady retrieve. Any other ideas?  Flys?  I am fishing in Southwest Washington, and possibly will go near Mt. St. Hellens. Thank you. Aaron W.

A really good lake is Coldwater Lake, near St Helens.  People do well with various things; it would be hard to go wrong with a small black or olive wooly bugger (size 10 to 14).  I use a full sinking shooting head, in type II or IV, for most of my lake fishing in the area.  Try different retrieves, try waiting different times to let the line sink to different depths, try points and dropoffs, try fishing where the codger factor is high.   Oh, you don’t know what the codger factor is?  That’s the average age of the fisherfolk within a 100 yd radius.  Anything over 50 is a good bet. A fly that does well for me in the cascade lakes in the spring is an olive brown wooly worm, with brown hackle, in size 8 or 10,  Matter of fact, that or the wooly bugger will be on the sinking line just about any time I can’t see something else in particular to match.   Caught 10 feet of cutthroats with the wooly bugger yesterday, in 8 to 10 inch increments.  Beautiful day, beautiful fish, and a great way to start the season.

Response:

I would love to hear some advice about float tube fly fishing for trout.  I have read my share of books, had fair experience, but am still not that satisfied with the results I get.  Still love it though. Anyway, my default setting is to fish with a sink tip line, casting towards shore with a wolly bugger, sometimes a gold ribbed hair’s ear [though I've yet to catch anything with this].  Both are hauled in with a slow steady retrieve.   Any other ideas?  Flys?  I am fishing in Southwest Washington, and possibly will go near Mt. St. Hellens. Thank you. Aaron W.

Response:

Anyway, my default setting is to fish with a sink tip line, casting towards shore with a wolly bugger, sometimes a gold ribbed hair’s ear [though I've yet to catch anything with this].  Both are hauled in with a slow steady retrieve. Any other ideas?  Flys?  I am fishing in Southwest Washington, and possibly will go near Mt. St. Hellens.

I have never had much luck with sunk flies on sinking lines.  I usually cast toward shore to rocks, logs and grassy cuts with a small elk hair caddis or stimulator. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Question:

Can any one recommend the right size fly pole for Bass and small Stripers?                                                 Thanks!

Response:

I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO USE A 6 OR 7 WEIGHT FLY ROD .THAT IS WHAT I AM GOING TO DO THIS SUMMER 97.I CAN HARDLY WAIT. TIE YOUR OWN FLIES AND YOU WILL BE SURPRISED.

Response:

try using a 9ft boron rod…use 7wgt fwd line and use either a popping bus or a deer hair bug tied by one of the catalog co. ll bean dan baily orvis…etc

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Brian, I have caught many suckers fishing for trout, almost always on nymphs.                                 Mark Faulkner

Response:

Check the July/August issue of American Angler magazine for some tips on fly fishing for suckers. John Likakis

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

much real help.  I have caught suckers a number of times (fair hooked) and on one occasion in the Kakisa River in the NWT, thought I had hooked up with a world record grayling. The fly was a Golden Stone but the kicker is that the water was quite turbid. Because suckers feed off the bottom it is unlikely in clear water with any velocity that you will have much chance. Small nymphs right on the bottom in rather slow moving water will fare better. Carp are another story altogether, they will take a moving fly.

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While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

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. . . And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little . . . Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer

Unlike carp, suckers appear to be exclusively bottom feeders.  Their underslung mouths do not encourage them to take anything not actually resting on the bottom: and their digestions probably absorb anything from algae to big insects e.g. stoneflies.  They seem especially fond of worms, which hints they may scent food. A northern species of sucker called the Northern Redhorse is a beautiful fish (red fins) that runs to 30 inches and could break most fly tippets. Because so unafraid of predators, they can be caught on big nymphs if you can manage a dead drift within one inch of the bottom.  Dead drift (no skidding sideways) is ultra difficult on tippets strong enough to land a big one. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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… snip stuff preliminary to trying to catch suckers … Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin

I am no expert, so have several grains of salt handy, but I believe that suckers determine what is food primarily by the smell of it, whereas bass and trout are sight hunters, determining what is food primarily by what it looks like (I think pike fall into this group as well).  Anyway, because a fly smells like a lump of feathers, fur, and steel, I would guess that you would have limited success with them.   Maybe if you smear that wet fly real well with extract of rotted fish… FWIW, etc. tq

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Dear "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge": When I began fly fishing at the late old age of 24, I apprenticed under the tutelage of a fine old fly fishing gentleman who gave me the real inside skinny on fly fishing and fly selection. The only cast you will ever need is the roll cast and the only fly that will work in such a situation is a #4 Hair Wing Royal Coachman Streamer tied on a Mustad 9575. His reasoning: that the Limerick bend and exaggerated barb of that particular Mustad hook does a superior job of holding the bait. Bait: His enticement of choice was the lowly earth worm, but in your case I would heartlily recommend thin strips of calf’s liver which have aged several weeks or months until dark green (the back of the fridge is perfect for the aging process) and amazingly pungent. Tackle: I recommend a 8-9′, 6 wt., fiberglass, Garcia "Conolon" rod with a "sturdy" action. Line: 6-7 wt. level line. Terminal Tackle: 2-3′ of 0X leader material tied to the line with a double overhand knot. You will need weight to get it to the feeding depth (bottom), so about 1/4 oz. of split shot should do it (remember to use "non-lead" split shot-for the environment you know). Method: Using 6" forceps attach the liver to the aforementioned fly, impaling it twice over the point and barb, douse with a very generous squirt of "Easy Cheez" (my favorite is the "Swiss Flavor"). Simply "Chuck & Duck", quartering upstream, directly into the feeding lane. As the fly approaches the fish, should he not notice the fly (some suckers suffer from "Squirreling Disease" which affects their sight and smell), simply yank the rod 2-3′ upward in the "Field and Stream" position and drive the fly into it’s snout (this is referred to as the "induced take"). Landing the Fish: After a spectacular fight and amazing display of water acrobatics (hauling it in), I implore you to practice "catch and release" fishing, whereby you "release" the fish as far as you can into the woods (ALWAYS be sure to bring "flushable" baby wipes for removing the sucker’s protective slime from your hands and waders after a "catch and release"). This is the option of choice for the true sportsman. Unless of course there happen to be spectators nearby who have emmigrated from country whose vast culinary heritage has bestowed up them a deeper appreciation for such a delicacy. In these cases, I salute their superior senses of taste and smell and it is my practice to reward them with a gift of the fish. Cooking Methods (Once in a while ALL true sportsman will kill a fish to eat): Refer to Schweibert’s "Trout" as many good recipes. adaptable to the tasty sucker, therein can be found. This section of the book alone is makes the purchase of this fine work a justifiable expense. Other great fish cookbooks have been written by LaFontaine and Borger and can be found in better fly shops everywhere. Tight Lines!! Todd L. McCagg "Dry Fly… Schmy Fly!"

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Question:

I turned back to the 444SL after I tried othrs. The LASER line is very nice to cast and floats very high (makes line pickup easier), but: all this only for a very short time (I used it for only one season!). The hard coating is worn out very fast and you have to replace the line. The Wulf Triangel taper is very nice to fish, too. I used it in the 3/4 and 5/6 weight. Rollcasting is much fun and, especially with the 3/4, presentation of drys to very shy trout is terrific. The disadvantage, especially for the 3/4, is that it is very hard to transport heavier or more wind resistant flies. I now returned to the 444SL which can do the job much better: Very long casts are much easier with the 444SL, rollcasting nearly as good as with the TT, but if the situation requires it, I can also tie on a heavy stremer or a heavy weigthed nymph with a few split shots with still comfortable casting.                             Thomas

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If anyone needs a Cortland Fly line or has any questions about

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I used a 444SL for many trouble-free years.  In fact, I wore it out — the first line that I ever killed.  I’ve been thinking about giving the Lazer line a try, but have been playing around with Lee Wulf’s Triangle taper, as well as a few others.  Give me your pros and cons on the 444SL and the Lazer Line, with regard to durability, floatability.  Thanks.

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I used a 444SL for many trouble-free years.  In fact, I wore it out — the first line that I ever killed.  I’ve been thinking about giving the Lazer line a try, but have been playing around with Lee Wulf’s Triangle taper, as well as a few others.  Give me your pros and cons on the 444SL and the Lazer Line, with regard to durability, floatability.  Thanks.

According to the folks at FEATHER-CRAFT Fly Fishing in St. Louis, 444SL is designed specifically for fast-action rods, is stiffer than most lines and is considered 1/4 weight higher than it’s rating.  The Lazer line are supposed to be best for light action rods because it loads the rod quickly for short casts.  

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Question:

I am looking into getting a new net. I want something durable and easy on the fish.  I only catch and release.  I have seen some long narrow nets that have shallow bags.  These were listed as C&R nets but I thought the lack of depth might make it difficult to control a large fish when removing the hook. I am not interested in looks, just reliability. any ideas/comments? Thanks John Lokanis

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I am looking into getting a new net. I want something durable and easy on the fish.  I only catch and release.  I have seen some long narrow nets that have shallow bags.  These were listed as C&R nets but I thought the lack of depth might make it difficult to control a large fish when removing the hook. I am not interested in looks, just reliability.

Those "C&R" nets are certainly the rage these days. They’re design is the polar opposite of the typical trout net with a bag that’s so deep you could hide Jimmy Hoffa in it. Given the choice of a conventional net with a deep bag, a conventional net with a shallow bag (which I have), or the narrow C&R net, I’d definitely go the the C&R net. I hope to find the time n this lifetime to build one of those myself ;^) If it’s large fish you’re worried about, the purpose of the long narrow hoop is to avoid folding the fish on itself – which can harm the fish and make the release a bity futile. There is just enough depth to the net to contain the fish while you quickly remove your barbless hook, and in most cases a large fish will remain fairly docile once it’s layed out on the netting (I’ve found the smaller fish will be the more wriggly)… <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking into getting a new net. I want something durable and easy on the fish.  I only catch and release.  I have seen some long narrow nets that have shallow bags.  These were listed as C&R nets but I thought the lack of depth might make it difficult to control a large fish when removing the hook. I am not interested in looks, just reliability. any ideas/comments? Thanks John Lokanis

John, L.L. Bean sells one ($50) having the following dimensions:  Net — 16" long, 7" wide, 6 1/2" deep; 23" long overall. Orvis also sells the Rocky Mountain Stretch and Release ($69) with the following dimensions:  Net — 15" long, 10" wide, 18" deep; 22" long overall.  This is probably more your speed. Best regards, Jim Davis Philadelphia, PA Temple University

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking into getting a new net. I want something durable and easy on the fish.  I only catch and release.  I have seen some long narrow nets that have shallow bags.  These were listed as C&R nets but I thought the lack of depth might make it difficult to control a large fish when removing the hook. I am not interested in looks, just reliability. any ideas/comments? Thanks John Lokanis John, L.L. Bean sells one ($50) having the following dimensions:  Net — 16" long, 7" wide, 6 1/2" deep; 23" long overall. Orvis also sells the Rocky Mountain Stretch and Release ($69) with the following dimensions:  Net — 15" long, 10" wide, 18" deep; 22" long overall.  This is probably more your speed. Best regards, Jim Davis Philadelphia, PA Temple University

I just got an LL Bean C&R the other day.  Nice net, but just a little large.  But, I still like it anyway.  Good quality wood too.  Keep away from those cheap imported ones ($20 or less).  I got one and it was crap!  The screw eye in the handle stripped out the third time I grabbed for it.  I bought a good net basket and replaced the cheap one it came with, put a bigger screw eye in the handle, and gave it to my 7 year old for her first net (she’ll never know).  :-) Steve   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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I am looking into getting a new net.

I’m courious why you need a net at all.  I have been fly fishing for five years and have caught every thing from redfish in the Gulf of Mexico to salmon in British Columbia and have never needed a net (except when fishing for Spring Salmon).  If a fish is played correctly, and handled with a little care your god given hands should be good enough.  Instead, why not check out some of the new gloves that are available for handling fish.  They help avoid damage to the fish’s layer of protective slime. Just my $.02

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I have a C&R net, and I have securely landed trout up to 22" in the mesh bag. If you are worried about losing fish when removing hooks, don’t be.   The finer mesh helps keep the protective slime on the fish and the shallower bag prevents the fish from "bending," a major cause of injury.

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I am looking into getting a new net. I want something durable and easy on the fish.  I only catch and release.  I have seen some long narrow nets that have shallow bags.  These were listed as C&R nets but I thought the lack of depth might make it difficult to control a large fish when removing the hook. I am not interested in looks, just reliability. any ideas/comments? Thanks

I’ve heard good things about Bridgeport Landing Net Company. They are in Portland OR. I don’t have a net, but will soon, and from wh= at I can tell they seem to be a good deal for the money. Michael Paine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John Lokanis

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Hi Michael, I’m struggling with my newsreader, so I’m not sure if this response will get posted to the newsgroup, but here goes.  If my previous one got posted, please ignore… I see some of the other responses suggested various models, but for me, I really advise using the hand. Although it takes some getting used to, rolling the trout on it’s back usually quites them down – or – holding them upright with gentle pressure applied just forward of the ventral fins will also.   Compared to the struggle of getting teeth, gills, and hook untangled from the net always seems more traumatic and time consuming to me.  Bag the net – they’re more bother than they are worth, and bringing to hand is more satisfying.  Besides, the trout I’m into won’t fit into any net small enough to carry

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I am looking into getting a new net. I want something durable and easy on the fish.  I only catch and release.  I have seen some long narrow nets that have shallow bags.  These were listed as C&R nets but I thought the lack of depth might make it difficult to control a large fish when removing the hook. I am not interested in looks, just reliability. any ideas/comments? Thanks

I just bought the Orvis Stretch and Release net. I’ve landed about a dozen fish over 17 inches with it, with no problems. It is without a doubt the best net I’ve ever owned, I would highly recommend it. Also take a look at their magnetic net attachment gizmo, I love that thing.

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Given the choice of a conventional net with a deep bag, a conventional net with a shallow bag (which I have), or the narrow C&R net, I’d definitely go the the C&R net. I hope to find the time n this lifetime to build one of those myself ;^)

I presume you will make one from a kit. Where can you buy a kit for a net? Richard Warren Raleigh, NC

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TO:   hi there      re: your  net inquiry…I know it’s the fashion to bash Orvis products these days, but I am going to go out on a limb here and recommend the Orvis "Catch and Release" net. I have had one two years and they are very easy on the fish. The mesh is soft and tightly woven. Yes they are shallow, but if you buy the large one, I doubt you will stick many trout that you cant handle with it. Three weeks ago I caught 4 trout between 20 and 21 inches on the Bighorn R. and had no problem handling the fish. A year ago I caught my largest fish ever on a fly..a bruiser brown 26"..in North Carolina of all places. I landed him with this same net and was able to control him and gently release him with no harm done. I am not an Orvis junkie, but this is the best net I’ve ever owned.  I fish alot, and in two years the net, including the mesh, is still in fine shape. My only hope is that someday soon you catch a trout that really is too big for this net to handle! Dale Owens

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Any Ideas on what’s hot and what’s not??  Please post them.  Thanks

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From what I’m told the Deerfield is one of the best rivers in the East for fly fishing. It’s up in North Western MA. Best points of entry along Route 2.

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