Question:

We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month. But with these two events closing in on the Bush administration, the falling polls, and the complicity of 9/11 getting known, may trigger another attack, and the declaration of martial law, in order to cancel the election, shut down the Internet as we know it, and to clamp down on further discussion of 9/11. Some say we are already in a partial police state,  and some say we now more everything that has been said, the Congress, the military,  the media, does nothing.  Obviously they are persuaded to do nothing. http://www.911sharethetruth.com 9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB–OUR NATION IS IN PERIL       – A Call to All True Patriots –    We have actively studied the questionable nature of the official version of what happened to our nation on September 11, 2001. Throughout the first year after 9-11 we ignored and did not believe those who asked us to question the official story. Like millions of Americans we believed America had been attacked by terrorists from abroad. Sadly, we are now convinced that our government committed a vicious criminal act against its own citizens for the larger purpose of swaying us to support both domestic and foreign policies mapped out in the mid and late 1990’s. 9-11 was Hitler’s Reichstag fire of 1933 and Roosevelt’s Pearl Harbor masterfully coordinated to achieve the desired ends of an imperialistic role for America in the world, patriotic support at home and the erosion of our constitutional rights. In a nutshell, the war on terrorism is a cruel hoax by a misguided, out-of-democratic control small group of individuals sabotaging the best of American values. We are in the midst of a constitutional crisis combined with severe domination from an Orwellian corporate media knowingly or unknowingly being of service to the true powerbrokers behind the curtain. We feel like we are living in the "Matrix" where we can blend in, but knowing something is horribly wrong and must be exposed. The quality of life for all of our loved ones is at stake along with the hopes of millions of people for a world of peace, freedom and ecological sustainability. If just a few of you take the time to study a little more and become involved in the 9-11 truth movement we will be greatly appreciative. We strongly feel that people of all progressive movements should involve themselves in this effort to expose the truth about 9-11 and in the greatest push ever from the grassroots to nonviolently replace our current despotic leadership. It would have tremendous positive consequences to all of our progressive movements if similar to the fall of Nixon over Watergate that the Bush administration was exposed on this and replaced. This outrageous criminal act must be brought to justice and our freedoms restored. We need to reach out now to all those who may be willing to hear and break the silence. Go to site for posters, cassettes, buttons… http://www.911sharethetruth.com

Response:

We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month.

Yep, it was an inside job….the planes blew up INSIDE the buildings. Gee, you are so smart.  You are right about specially outfitted planes… aircraft slamming into the side of a building would go in just like a missle.  And correct again about the controlled demolition…those terrorists must have been really skilled to be able to CONTROL the way they demolished the buildings. By the way numbnuts, watch the footage again.  The buildings did not collapse starting from the bottom.  A controlled demolition would not have been done in the basement, but would have needed to take out at least a dozen floors with the size of the buildings and taken at least a week to plan, and implement.  I think people would have gotten just a mite suspicious with work crews cutting through the structural pilings, setting shaped charges and running primer cord throughout the buildings. The quality of the steel made back when the towers were constructed was poor compared to today.  The structural tolerance was quite low.  The intense heat would collapse the pilings.  And the weight exerted by the upper floors would and did cause the lower ones to fail, causing a cascade failure.  The only way the building would have toppled is if the lower pilings were strong enough to hold back the collapsing upper floors and deflect the path of the fall.  But, as we all saw, it did not. Cease and decist your trolling.  People are getting sick of your freakish extremist "moveon.orgism". GO AWAY!!!!     *PLONK*

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month. But with these two events closing in on the Bush administration, the falling polls, and the complicity of 9/11 getting known, may trigger another attack, and the declaration of martial law, in order to cancel the election, shut down the Internet as we know it, and to clamp down on further discussion of 9/11. Some say we are already in a partial police state,  and some say we now more everything that has been said, the Congress, the military,  the media, does nothing.  Obviously they are persuaded to do nothing. Yup – and yet the media still refuses to even question the wacko bush conspriracy explanation for 9-11.  Thank gof for the net or it would truly be hopeless.

What does gof have to do with anything. — Retired military and damn proud of it.

Response:

Yup – and yet the media still refuses to even question the wacko bush conspriracy explanation for 9-11.  Thank gof for the net or it would truly be hopeless. Indeed.  Being uncensored,

Free press would also be uncensored.                                       the net provides the ideal soapbox for every paranoid conspiracy theorist who knows how to use a keyboard.

Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Matti P.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. This is true.  Yet, just because it does not conform to my beliefs does not automatically mean that it is accurate. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. Perhaps then I should have used the full term "paranoid conspiracy theory" – addressing those ideas that attempt to explain facts that have already been explained, but in a far more bizarre and usually convoluted manner that reassures the wannabe Fox Mulder that The Truth Really Is Out There, and that THEY do not want you to know about it.  It is really only a desire on the part of the theorist to demonstrate their ability to outwit THEM, despite all the barriers THEY supposedly put in the theorists’ way.

I understood your point; just wanted to clarify terms. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Oh, by no means.  In my experience, by far the silliest theory yet put forward is by the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (PCTs) themselves.

Please note: I said "among the silliest", not "the silliest". Matti P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is the notion that the attack on the Pentagon was carried out not by a terrorist in a hijacked 767, but by a remote-controlled drone plane or missile, packed with explosives and painted (this is priceless) in American Airlines livery to fool onlookers (who presumably cannot tell the difference between a liner and a missile or fighter), whilst the actual 767 was landed at an airport nearby having been flown OVER the Pentagon in the confusion.  The passengers were later ‘disappeared’ by the CIA. There are more holes in this ludicrous ‘explanation’ than in a standard fishing net – and yet it is passed reverently from PCT to PCT as though it is some holy gospel of truth.  In comparison to that, at least to those who have even the slightest grip on the real world, the official line, whilst perhaps open to question in some areas, seems to make far more sense. — Midjis

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. This is true.  Yet, just because it does not conform to my beliefs does not automatically mean that it is accurate. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. Perhaps then I should have used the full term "paranoid conspiracy theory" – addressing those ideas that attempt to explain facts that have already been explained, but in a far more bizarre and usually convoluted manner that reassures the wannabe Fox Mulder that The Truth Really Is Out There, and that THEY do not want you to know about it.  It is really only a desire on the part of the theorist to demonstrate their ability to outwit THEM, despite all the barriers THEY supposedly put in the theorists’ way. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Oh, by no means.  In my experience, by far the silliest theory yet put forward is by the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (PCTs) themselves.  This is the notion that the attack on the Pentagon was carried out not by a terrorist in a hijacked 767, but by a remote-controlled drone plane or missile, packed with explosives and painted (this is priceless) in American Airlines livery to fool onlookers (who presumably cannot tell the difference between a liner and a missile or fighter), whilst the actual 767 was landed at an airport nearby having been flown OVER the Pentagon in the confusion.  The passengers were later ‘disappeared’ by the CIA. There are more holes in this ludicrous ‘explanation’ than in a standard fishing net – and yet it is passed reverently from PCT to PCT as though it is some holy gospel of truth.  In comparison to that, at least to those who have even the slightest grip on the real world, the official line, whilst perhaps open to question in some areas, seems to make far more sense. — Midjis

But there is conclusive physical evidence that no 767 hit the Pentagon, in fact no evidence of fusilage of any plane found.. The fact that two, one piece that does not match photographed on the lawn points to conspiracy. There was no American Airlines flight 77 scheduled to fly that day. There is conclusive physical evididence that no  passenger jet plane hit the 1st tower or penetrated it. {The film shown shown the following day  9/12, was  crudely edited.  You can see it by looking for the evidence "first plane")  There is only three small holes in the building, none greater that a few feet. There was no American Airlines flight 11 scheduled to fly that day.  What few eye witnesses say a very small plane, holding no more than 10-12 seats, or "a missle with wings".  Check out the examination of that flight and the photos  on thewebfairy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The sheer volume of web articles devoted to the idea that there is ‘conclusive physical evidence’ of anything of the sort is absolutely staggering.  Particularly since there is no such evidence. Patently false. Yes, it is easy to say that, is it not?  But I would be interested to see you provide some of this supposed evidence – and try to do slightly better than the photos you directed me to in the other thread. — Midjis ~~ ama semper quisquis noces

Blow me.

Response:

The sheer volume of web articles devoted to the idea that there is ‘conclusive physical evidence’ of anything of the sort is absolutely staggering.  Particularly since there is no such evidence. Patently false. Yes, it is easy to say that, is it not?  But I would be interested to see you provide some of this supposed evidence – and try to do slightly better than the photos you directed me to in the other thread.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img/img006/sweetdeal_title.jpg This one doesn’t NECCESARILY prove anything, other than that a KC-767 prototype did in fact exist, but it’s very telling nevertheless. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Midjis ~~ ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

Question:

All, A man I knew for the last 25 years as a dear friend and a fly fisherman passed away last night at the age of 68. This man survived the Korean War flying some of our best jets of that time and continued flying until medical problems grounded him. His main interest in life was fly fishing and fly tying.  When he could not find the materials he wanted for tying or fishing, he made them. He even defied the odds and manufactured his own fly rods and produced some of the finest rods I’ve ever had the privilege to cast. I know that many on this list were his friend and will also miss him. This list will miss his quips and comments. Whether you agreed with him or not, he did made you think. George, we will all miss you. In memory of George Gehrke, Karl Snyder — a friend

Response:

In memory of George Gehrke, Karl Snyder — a friend

Friend or foe, from all I’ve heard, he was an excellent angler.  Tight lines George. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

In memory of George Gehrke,

It’s good he was able to make it to the Henrys Fork Clave, and probably why he strived to get there. He obviously enjoyed himself there, and (for better or worse) enjoyed frequenting roff. My thoughts are with his friends and family. — TL, George. Tim

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All, A man I knew for the last 25 years as a dear friend and a fly fisherman passed away last night at the age of 68. This man survived the Korean War flying some of our best jets of that time and continued flying until medical problems grounded him. His main interest in life was fly fishing and fly tying.  When he could not find the materials he wanted for tying or fishing, he made them. He even defied the odds and manufactured his own fly rods and produced some of the finest rods I’ve ever had the privilege to cast. I know that many on this list were his friend and will also miss him. This list will miss his quips and comments. Whether you agreed with him or not, he did made you think. George, we will all miss you. In memory of George Gehrke, Karl Snyder — a friend

Very sorry to hear that, Karl. No matter if the people on this list were his friends or not, I think that we all will miss his posts, for sure I will. Even if I didn

Question:

Mike,   I think I was in Charlotte, coming from Miami heading for Dayton….no wait a minute I was in Miami. Anyhow, transferred in Charlotte and left for Dayton. Anyhow, when I left Miami, I could see my bags and rod case on the cart. The plane was full and my bags and rod case did not get loaded. they were left in Miami. My bags and rod case were on the turnstile when I got to Dayton. This causes a pain between my ears which I do not understand. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW

Um…Right now, I’d recommend doing absolutely nothing that gives very jumpy airport security crews reason to give one any "special attention". A member of my design team was virtually strip-searched yesterday in Denver while changing planes on his way to San Jose, apparently the unlucky winner of a random selection process… /daytripper (He decidedly did not enjoy the experience)

Response:

I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!

Perhaps it’s not wise to publicize even the possibility in a public forum, but there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.   JR

Response:

… there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.

I thought Waldo had his old waders carted off to a Superfund Site. — Ken Fortenberry- pray that bin Laden never gets his hands on Waldo’s waders

Response:

Several years ago my company was working on a project in Venezuela.  Fed-X subcontracts delivery.  It took two weeks for them to get a package there.  DHL was much better, however customs in Venezuela is always a crap shoot. Things do not understand drive them nuts.   Put the hooks/flys in checked baggage if you really want any chance of them being there with you.  Have a great trip. Chuck W. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Thanks anyway.

It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

Response:

I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks anyway. It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

Response:

I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

Best of luck both traveling and fishing! — Charlie…

Response:

I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!   Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim

Response:

Good idea, but the place I’m going to is really out of the way, and I’ve heard that stuff often doesn’t get there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense. Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

I’ve never lost any stuff on an international flight, either (probably because I carry on).  But, during my last trip to Venezuela, one of the folks at the camp didn’t get his stuff until the 7th day of a 9 day stay. He’d been going done there for 10 years, but shit is bound to happen. Thanks anyway.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale,

We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Post 9/11 I went from West Palm Beach-Houston-South padre Isl for red fish. As my guide was supplying the flies, I just took 2 travel rod in aluminum tubes, and my gear bag (sans flies and knives).  However, I was stopped at the x-ray machine and my 51/2" forceps were confiscated.  Luckily I had time to bring them to the check-in counter and they kept them until I got back. I think that the bottom line is that we are all at the mercy of the examiners and not the airlines.  What may be one guy’s interpretation of a weapon, may be another guy’s harmless nose hair picker.  I think that I’ll just check the flies in a non-descript bag and hope they arrive in Caracas with me. By the way, I’m going back to a Peacock bass camp on the banks of the Cinaruco River (about 300 miles south of Caracas).  Let me highly recommend this destination as a place to go if you want a lot of action with al very tough fish.  My first time there, last year in January, I met up with 3 other fly rodders and for 9 days we boated between 20 and 59 fish/each per day.  They averaged around 5#, and I was lucky to catch the biggest of the trip, a 10 and 12 pounded.  This is not the Lake Guri deal.  It is more rustic, the food is good-OK, drinks on the house, there are all three species of peacocks int he water, the biggest goes to around 16-17# (the only negative for those who want the bigger fish).  I normally go to the Caribbean for sight fishing, which I will continue to do, but the action here was so good that I had to do it again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks,

I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

Adam, let me ask exactly where you are going… I’ve had no problems heading south, but the last time was before 9-11. Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, or maybe one of the narwhale things that made the mermaid legends.  Which, considering what the mores of society have been in the none to recent past and present, doesn’t really surprise me that there might have been a sexual attraction. I AM surprised that there was no viable offspring. john You could always send a package to the guide a couple of weeks before. They generally have good connections in town.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

Question:

The Sylvania Tract, a little west of Ironwood, has geat smallmouth fishing.  It is all canoe, catch and release, barbless hooks only, and if you stay in overnight, has only primitive camping.  It is possible to rent a canoe and go into Clark Lake in the morning, fish the day, and get out before dark.  It’s not that big a lake.  We fished in June and caught bass to 21 inches.  I expect if you do a search on Sylvania Tract you will quickly find info. good luck

Response:

I’m heading up to Ironwood, Michigan for a wedding in mid August.  Does anyone have any advice on some good fishing spots nearby?  Any type from fly-fishing for trout to trolling for walleye would be appreciated. Thanks, SB

Response:

I was up in that neck of the woods last summer and did some fly fishing in two general locations in that area. The Porcupine mountains are a few miles northeast from Ironwood. I didn’t catch too much there, but it sure is a pretty place with some beautiful vistas and backcountry. If you take Rt. 2 east to Watersmeet, you’ll come to the Ontonogon River. Easy to wade and full of cooperative brookies. I had great luck with small royal wolffs. When you buy your license, get a free copy of Michigan’s Inland Trout and Salmon Guide, which has maps of the whole state and its trout streams. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m heading up to Ironwood, Michigan for a wedding in mid August.  Does anyone have any advice on some good fishing spots nearby?  Any type from fly-fishing for trout to trolling for walleye would be appreciated. Thanks, SB

Response:

I’m heading up to Ironwood, Michigan for a wedding in mid August.  Does anyone have any advice on some good fishing spots nearby?  Any type from fly-fishing for trout to trolling for walleye would be appreciated. Thanks, SB

    If you are daring and have a bit of cash book a charter out of the harbor about 45 min north of there (The name escapes me right now Black River Harbor???) .  The Salmon should be just offshore by then.  Otherwise you have world class musky and walleye waters about 30 minutes south in the Turtle Flambeau Flowage in Wisconsin.  No Trolling allowed but this is world class water with many opportunties.  Clear and dark waters lie in the flowage and boat rentals as well as local info are available.  Night fishing may be the key for some really big fish by then.    As for trout streams the Montreal can yield some good catches late in the season if the water remains high enough and is only 15-20 minutes to the west.  Then you do have the Brule to the east, but personally I believe it is overrated and overfished. Good luck.  Both to you and the future wedded couple. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

It REALLY isn’t necessary to take the entire six ounce tub in the stream with you.  The world is full of containers of all sizes and shapes.  Transferring Albolene from its original container to something more convenient for use in the stream is any easy task.

Film canisters work – used one for abolene for years.  Still carry one as a spare in my wader bag. Peter

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 …..I take the albolene and put some into one of those little "Brand X" bottles thats almost empty! What do you think boys and girls?…..

Actually, I think the "Brand G" would be a better choice.  I hear there’s billions of em out there.

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Hey, I’ve just had a brainstorm.

<Snipped, plan to undermine our glorious capitalist economy Good God man !   Are you trying to undermine the economics of the industry ? Shame on you !  It is mandatory for a flyfisherman to carry several extremely expensive bottles of various substances of doubtful value, and hardly ever to use them.  Ideas like yours, though probably economically sound, and eminently practical, might be the death knell of the industry. Some bugger will be advising us to use cheap rods as well next !  What is the world coming to ? TL MC

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Got to be me! Dave

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   sound advice, as usual, from a man whose ability to discern the truth of a matter is legendary.

Legend has it he did once<g. — Charlie…

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Fished the Big Quilecene river this pm. Lots of summer run Dog salmon carcasses in river. Very few trout. Fished an Orange stimulator, #6 on a 4x, as an October Caddis. You skitter the October caddis, and bob it under the surface to emulate egg laying. Caught handful of little Cutts and 2 chunky sea brite "rainbows" of about 14"  Strong fish. Had tied up a dozen stimulators and dressed all in Albolene nite before. Tried lite and heavy dressings. Both floated the fly, but the heavier dressing of Albolene did better, and still worked after being mouthed by caught fish. Stayed a little too long and went a little too far so had to hoof it back a couple of miles thru dark pastures and highway 101. Luckily my route went by the Laughing Oyster bar. Classic timber town bar. Thankfully no spotted owl on the menu Sunday nights. Dave

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Saturday, October 16, 1999 Wolfgang, …you seem to be an intelligent writer and you find it a point to seek out people at a public board and criticize.  Please, could you explain to me your idea of the ROFF, what it is in your words, and how you contribute?

Why yes, actually I’d be delighted.  ROFF is a public forum to which many people come to exchange ideas and information related to fly fishing and a host of other topics.  I contribute by posting on topic messages whenever I feel that they may satisfy one or more of the following criteria; they must be informative, unique, insightful, amusing, illustrative, or in some other way useful.  I use the same criteria for off topic posts. Now, since there are many regular contributors here whose knowledge of matters related to fly fishing is vastly greater than my own I leave most of the informative answers to fly fishing questions to them.  Given the wide ranging interests of the people who post here it stands to reason that certain topics will come up about which I am in a position to say something worthwhile by virtue of the fact that I am a unique human being with experiences different from anyone else’s.  When that happens I contribute as I can and when the spirit moves me. As for being critical, I plead guilty as charged.  So what?  Early in my career on this NG I was taken to task for daring to offer a definition of a scientific term which many others found lacking, and this is as it should be.  What, after all, is the purpose of a public forum?  Is it not to sift through the dross of ill considered and sloppily propounded opinions in search of the truth?  Or, if you will allow me to switch metaphors, what we are about here is a process of distillation.  We are looking for the pearls of wisdom hidden in the sow’s ear or some such. But enough of that. Let’s get to the point of your criticism so cleverly hidden in what appears to be a question.  So, you don’t like my tone.  Evidently you see me as being unnecessarily quarrelsome or even unkind.  Again, guilty as charged…at least in some cases.  I don’t find this particularly difficult to justify though.  The great beauty of the usenet is that it affords anyone with access the opportunity to say whatever he or she wishes with a guarantee that the message will be available to a wide audience.  The great shortcoming of the usenet is that it affords anyone with access the opportunity to say whatever he or she wishes with a guarantee that the message will be available to a wide audience.  We live in what is called the information age.  Unfortunately a lot of what passes as information is in fact, shit.  And not everyone who passes information via this forum is pure of motive.  All too often some sanctimonious asshole shows up with an agenda that has nothing to do with sharing information or camaraderie.  It’s all about demonstrating that he is a superior being, some kind of Nietzchean Ubermensch.  I suspect that more often than not the underlying motivation is really an attempt to convince himself that he is in fact something more than a waste of valuable space, but that is neither here nor there.  Whenever this occurs I will, in my own humble way, do whatever I can to convince him that this is not a friendly place for such as he.  I am of course aware that others see matters differently than I do and that they have different means of dealing with miscreants.  This too is as it should be.  We have several regulars here who are the very soul of kindness and forbearance. And while I admire their measured responses to people who are not worthy of their attention I cannot be who they are nor act as they do.  Different strokes…. I hope I have cleared up this matter for you.  If not, let me know via email and I’ll expand.    One thing has makes me curious though.  The post to which you responded with your criticism of my criticism was a plea for Kathy not to give up on ROFF.  There was nothing critical in anything I said in that post. In fact, I even pointed out your "small stream fly fishing part III" as an example of a good reason for staying!  It seems to me there would be more appropriate places for you to voice your complaints.  It shouldn’t be at all difficult for you to find a thread in which I took a swipe at someone. Cheers!

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Saturday, October 16, 1999 Wolfgang, …you seem to be an intelligent writer and you find it a point to seek out people at a public board and criticize.  Please, could you explain to me your idea of the ROFF, what it is in your words, and how you contribute? Why yes, actually I’d be delighted.

        (remarkably intelligent response deleted) Cheers!

        who loves ya, baby. wayno

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Albolene.   Costs about eight dollars ( American ) for a big jar. Sorry, forgot source !   Most drugstores and similar.

Hi all, Funny thing – if I say GINK is a terrific floatant  - that is not spam it’s the truth! If George says it, all hell breaks loose! — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk

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Bill Grey: <<Hi all, Funny thing – if I say GINK is a terrific floatant  - that is not spam it’s the truth! It is a terrific floatant.  I don’t think any one has a problem with that. Dave L.

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For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

here and say, "Hey!  Come on over to the Camp Site and join into the discussion about spamming!"  (?) Okay Kathy, I think we understand why you actually scrolled through this question.  Thanks for our opinion. Mr. G.

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Hey Ernie, or whoever remembers Whats the name of that hand cream you said was a great floatant? Where can you buy it? How much does it cost? Dave

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Im going to give this stuff a try. Just found out you can order Albolene floatant on the web for $6 a 6 oz jar. Fact is they sell it in case lots, and probably by the carload. Just in case anyone else is interested, here is their web address. http://cdesb.com/ Dave

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Hey Ernie, or whoever remembers Whats the name of that hand cream you said was a great floatant? Where can you buy it? How much does it cost? Dave

Albolene.   Costs about eight dollars ( American ) for a big jar. TL MC

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Albolene.   Costs about eight dollars ( American ) for a big jar.

Sorry, forgot source !   Most drugstores and similar.

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oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ? BTW, George when you coming out with a upside down applicator ?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im going to give this stuff a try. Just found out you can order Albolene floatant on the web for $6 a 6 oz jar. Fact is they sell it in case lots, and probably by the carload. Just in case anyone else is interested, here is their web address. http://cdesb.com/ Dave

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oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ?

Can’t you fill an applicator bottle from the jar? I have never seen the stuff so I have no idea if it can be done or not, but I am sure someone out there already has (or tried).  Info? Tips? Warren Remember, men will come and men will go, but the streams and mountains go on forever. -Bob Carmichael

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Somewhere along the way I picked up a little holster thingy that holds the Gink bottle upside down, clipped to a zinger on my vest.  Label says "Gus’s Original Montana Flot-Pak".  Damned if I know where I picked it up at, but it works fine. — Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ? BTW, George when you coming out with a upside down applicator ? Im going to give this stuff a try. Just found out you can order Albolene floatant on the web for $6 a 6 oz jar. Fact is they sell it in case lots, and probably by the carload. Just in case anyone else is interested, here is their web address. http://cdesb.com/ Dave

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For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

Don’t leave Kathy!  Lots of reasons to stay.  For example, see Adam’s "small stream fly fishing Part III" above.  In addition Mu shared a lovely story with us just yesterday.  Mike is back with with his valedictorian versification…….the list goes on.  Life goes on and ROFF is still the last best place around!

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oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ?

It REALLY isn’t necessary to take the entire six ounce tub in the stream with you.  The world is full of containers of all sizes and shapes.  Transferring Albolene from its original container to something more convenient for use in the stream is any easy task.

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 Somewhere along the way I picked up a little holster thingy that holds the Gink bottle upside down, clipped to a zinger on my vest.  Label says "Gus’s Original Montana Flot-Pak".  Damned if I know where I picked it up at, but it works fine.

     If you are a real cheapskate (I am) you can make your own bottle holder. All the hardware stores sell black plastic 1" table leg end caps, they are usually come packaged four for a buck. These will snugly hold most of the gooey floatants (if you still use the stuff), most brands come in the same size bottle. Burn two holes in the base with a hot dubbing needle and tie in a loop of leader butt material. Voila- make one for yourself and impress three friends for a buck.

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For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

Filter all but those from A. Wayne Harrison….he is the young Marlon Brando. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!! Filter all but those from A. Wayne Harrison….he is the young Marlon Brando. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

    sound advice, as usual, from a man whose ability to discern the truth of a matter is legendary. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Hey, I’ve just had a brainstorm.  OK ready?  What about this:  I take the albolene and put some into one of those little "Brand X" bottles thats almost empty! What do you think boys and girls? Will this work? Betcha it will. Dave

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Question:

Mark, Stay loose and keep trying.That’s why they call it fishing and not catching. You were going to C & R anyways. Correct pressure it’s just a matter of experience. You have to take into consideration if the fish is going upstream, down strean, how much string you have out, fish size.Just hang in there,have fun.     Capt. Dan **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****

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Not to rain on your parade, but… <heavy downpour snipped

Most of your points are well taken.   However, to make the story as interesting, yet as brief as possible, considerable details and irrelevent narrative were omitted from a long day of fishing.   Had I included everything, I have no doubt you would be impressed with our ambassadorship for fly fishing, our sportsmanship, and the number of fish hooked and played by nearby anglers whist we stood by courteously and patiently when it was our turn to do so.   You would also have been exceptionally bored.   It’s a big river; and we neither monopolized any good holes, caught all the fish, nor substantially interfered with anyone’s enjoyment of the day.   It was a fine day fishing for all; this story was but a snapshot of a moment. Lighten up, eh? If you were right, however, you’d have been right. Joe

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0] : Everybody see the theme happening here?  "Put a little pressure on ‘em?"  My : story: snipped: account of fishing for goldens : Still haven’t caught my first golden.. : -Mark : — Goldens aren’t hard to catch in wilderness streams provided they don’t see you first. They are ultra spooky. The whole secret is stealth. A six incher will scarf up a #10 Royal Wulff or just about anything else in your flybox, and there will be no question of being hooked up–he’ll be on. Just keep low, behind a bush or a rock–you don’t need a fancy cast, just get the fly on the water drifting reasonably. Actually I’ll suggest 14’s and 16’s are a more appropriate for the size of the typical golden, and are taken just as enthusiastically as 10’s. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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My buddy and I were fishing the Salmon River (NY) last fall during the annual salmon run.   We were there maybe a bit late for the peak of the run, and a lot of the fish in the river had been there a while and were a bit worn out.   Not that it wasn’t fun anyway, but once in a while, we’d hook into a really fresh fish with tons of energy.   These guys would take off like a freight train, jumping and taking you well into your backing going straight upstream.   Using an 8 or 10 pound tippet on these big fish necessarily made for a long difficult fight, but we had learned from experience when we could safely "put a little pressure ‘em" and when to let ‘em run.   The spinning rod guys, of course, had a lot less trouble dragging them out with 30# mono and so were somewhat impatient, but generally courteous, when we took our time bringing one in. On the last day of our trip, I worked a faster stretch, and my buddy was working a flat stretch upstream about 50 yards.   We were both hooking up fairly often, but he was really nailing them.   Every other time I looked up there it seemed, his rod was bent over while the spinning guys stood by with their lines out of the water.   I didn’t realize how frustrated some of the other fishermen were with this arrangement until I hooked the big one. Fishing an egg pattern, I saw my line hesitate and set the hook. Instantly, the big salmon sprinted upstream, jumping three times on the way. "Fish coming up!" I yelled upstream, and a half dozen or so other fishermen obliged me by pausing their casting.   The fish was so fast and strong, I quickly decided to walk upstream after him.   He was already 100 yards away and my drag was still singing.   That’s when I saw him.   Not the fish, the guy with the net.   This fish wasn’t even close to tired, but some nut case, tired of standing aroung waiting for another fly fisherman to land a fish, charged into the river and tried to scoop him out.   As tight as my tippet was stretched, even the slightest bump with that net would have cost me the fish instantly. To my relief, he only succeeded in scaring the hell out of it and it sped across to the other side of the river.   As I’m running up the shore to stop this guy, he practically sprints across the river (no small feat) in pursuit of my fish.   He’s still too far away to stop him when the fish reaches the shallows on the far bank.   The fish still has tons of strength left when "net man" get there.   He takes one stab at the fish with the net and the fish sprints upstream again.   My line wraps around net man’s legs and that was all she wrote.   I was still too far away to even curse at the guy.   I just walked back downstream and reeled in the slack.

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Everybody see the theme happening here?  "Put a little pressure on ‘em?"  My story: We were fishing in the 20 lakes basin of California.  I am new to California fishing and newer to fly fishing, I grew up in Michigan.  My buddy Paul and I had no trouble landing a couple delicious brookies the day before in the backcountry, and stocked rainbows from Saddlebag lake to days prior (my buddy Paul makes an excellent trout breakfast scramble).  But we’re really looking for the gold.. Golden Trout.  We try at several lakes and streams with no luck for goldens (just a brookie or two).. as we head further back into the backcountry, we come upon a stream that looks promising.  The bank is about 10 feet above the stream.. and we approach low as the sun is high, though not high enough for us to cast a shadow.. and we see them.  Goldens.. moving slowly left to right, slowing to inspect possible food sources (not rising) then continuing.  Since we’re backpacking, I’m using a fenwick fly/spin rod that doesn’t excel at either but packs well..  and I tie on my nymphs one by one, throwing them from the bank (I am NOT a good flyfisher.. my casts still have the grace of a collapsing bridge), staying low.. and we watch them ignore our offerings.  Paul (with only spinning gear) tosses out spinners and lures 40 feet downstream with no luck either.  After an hour or two of fruitless fishing up and down the section of stream, we quit fishing to have some burbon and nutrition.. and we watch the Goldens pass by like we’re in some kind of twisted dentist’s office.  Paul tells me about a pool he found downstream that might have a good evening bite.. so after a few hours of short hikes and exploring, I go back to camp, grab my gear and head to the pool.  Paul is already there, watching the evening rise.. wishing HE had brought his fly gear.  But Paul has proven why I like to pack with him.. he gives me first shot at the shittish rising Goldens with my fly gear.  I tie on a caddis, approach low, cast upstream.. and the fly stops dead, ripple, SET HOOK and golden on!    He jumps (yep, looks like a Golden, we estimate he’s at about 14-16"), heads upstream, yanking off my line.. all the while I’m having 2nd thoughts about my set.. the timing wasn’t great, didn’t feel real solid.  I decide, in order to make sure the hook is in, I’ll "put a lttle pressure on…" to further set the hook. Yep, game over, fishy all gone, we’re done for the evening (even though we didn’t know it at the time). Still haven’t caught my first golden.. -Mark — Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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I was guiding a client last year on the Ocanuluftee river in the smokies.The water was high and murky and I tied on one of my prince variations for him on a 5X tippet. After fishing the first eddy I put him on he asked me if this was a joke.By the third eddy he fished he changed his tune.He hooked up about three feet off the bank and said I think I’m hung up! I told him to set the hook harder! He said but I’m hung up! I said It’s a big fish buddy put it to him! He jerked the rod sharply and the fish exploded! I screamed get downstream of him before he makes his run! It was too late! The fish lipped the pool and headed into class five water.He held the rod high as the reel sang it’s song.After about 120 yards the fish parted the leader.He said I didn’t know there were fish like that up this high.I replied’ I didn’t either. Moral to the story"Never under estimate the brown trout and use 2X tippet when the water’s murky!                                                                                 Tim

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In my youth, I was a bait fisherman, just like my dad.   We were fishing the Chesapeake Bay near the Md/Va line and doing pretty well against some sea trout in about 70 ft of water.   As usual, just as the sun starts going down and the wind picks up, the fishing starts getting really good, but it’s time to go in.   Just before I reel in for the last time, I feel a bump and haul back on my rod.    I got it, but what?   Instantly it takes off south, aided by a 2 knot current.   I’m using a medium stiff spinning rod and 18-lb line, but he’s just peeling it off at high speed.   This is the fish of a lifetime.   After what seemed like a minute, but was probably only15 seconds, the line goes slack.   I’m deflated.   On reeling in, I find lots of nicks in what’s left.   Probably a big bluefish, maybe a shark, I’ll never know.   Man was that a fish. Joe

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I often remember the big fish that I’ve lost, especially from a mistake I made.  Any interest in exchanging the tales?  Herewith a modest contribution.

(Section deleted) Finally hooked a carp. I can remember fishing for Bluegill in my favorite section of Big Bear

Lake with my 3wt when I hooked into a monster.  It took about 20 minutes to get this thing close to me.  The largest Bluegill I’ve ever seen.  It was absolutely HUGE!! I wanted to keep it as I knew nobody would believe me when I told them how big. I had no net with me, after all who needs to net Bluegill.  I couldn’t get my hand around him and being a Bluegill couldn’t put my thumb in is mouth. No way to grab him !!!  Finally my 6x tippet gave way.  I dropped my rod and tried to grab with both hands, but he just slowly swam away. The following week I heard someone had caught a 4lb  9oz record the very next day. I guess you just can’t win them all. Bill

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Good thread, Michael. Fishing on the Beaverhead two years ago, floating below Dillon with the pontoon boat.  Slow day in September, having to pound them up and not much sucess at that either.   Dropped a two nymph rig into a drop-off that must have been 15 feet deep, and just let it sink – fooling around, mostly.  WHAM.  Rod bends straight down (like I was jigging for 10 pound crappies or something).  Five seconds later leader pops at, of all places, the nail knot attachment to the fly line.  Lost the entire leader.  First and only time that has ever happened to me, but now I carry an extra leader. Then there was the time…… (man, I got a load of these kind of stories) Mark Faulkner

Oh Mark, you brought back bad memories.  I had been fishing the Bow River in Alberta for three days and my luck had been so-so.  it was getting dark and I worked my way up to this flat, just upstream of a spot called Policeman’s.  I could see regular rises and there was one large regular one at the tail of an almost imperceptible seam.  I drift a #14 Henryville down, the rainbow took it and headed into the current with me hanging on for dear life.  I put a bit of pressure on and ping!!!, the leader parts in the middle.  Standing there looking at half my leader, I remember stepping on it earlier when releasing a small fish.  Must have nicked it with a stud.  Damn.  Would have been the best fish I had in a while. Peter Email address hacked. Remove -delete-this- to email a reply.

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These first few aren’t huge but memorable nonetheless… I guess there’s one every season or so for me,  a brown that took a hares ear spider on one side of the river, and immediately bolted for a single snag/branch hanging into the water clear across stream and promptly wrapped the leader around it, I barely had set the hook. Same river, two years or so earlier, a rainbow picked up a damsel nymph hit the main main current, crossed the current to a backwater on the other bank 20 yards downstream leapt and hung the line up in a bush. Then there are the bruisers … usually in backwaters … I did my first and only float trip last year … what a revelation.  This damned river Goulburn is much maligned as being difficult to fish and so it is, if you are looking for a swag of fish taken in runs, glides etc. Naturally things are differnt during a hatch, then selectivbity is a problem. On that trip I was broken in a backwater on the strike to a parachute dun, guide reckons "Biig"  …hard to tell I guess, but the sight of that dun disappearing is something I won’t forget, damn fish charged it and managed to break the fly-knot on 6 lb tippet when I lifted into him. Man there is some serious recovery time needed after things like that. The best thing about that trip though was I found where the fish were, very few mid-stream, mostly backwaters and hard against the bank near overhang branches and the like.  It gave me confidence in the water I knew there where fish and roughly where … so now I fish it with a heap of confidence, knowing that patience will pay off. Two weeks after the float, I returned foot, I watched backwaters relly looked and sure enough, 2lb plus fish accessible form the bank admittedly in tricky circumstances.  I spotted a much larger brown cruising a particular back water 6 times , always he’d be coming toward me or I’d be caugth in the open and couldn’t move … on the seven occasion the wind blew and riffled the water as he swam away .. the size 14 heavy wire fiery-brown nymph was taken, I lifted and all hell broke loose in the shallow water.  I couldn’t afford to let him run at all because of logs, and you guessed it … the hook straightened.  I cursed a little and *laughed* a hell of a lot while untangling leaderr and line from around my ears and hat, checked my watch –  one cast in 3 hours and worth every last second of it. That float trip has changed the way I fish ~that~ river forever. Geez …then there a the lake fish …. Steve

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I agree, this is a great thread. Last Memorial Day, I joined my Father-In-Law on the Potholes Res. in Central Washington.  He enjoys fishing for walleye so was rigged up and trolling for them.  I personally don’t care for spiny rays so had my rod rigged with my favorite Wolly Bugger pattern. After 30 minutes the fish finder turns black with fish and I start pounding nice 14 inch rainbows.  My next hit, the reel starts screaming and I was totally unpreparred for this size of fish (even though the lake is known to have 10 pound plus rainbows in it.)   After about 20 seconds the hook pulls out.  I reel in and check my fly and leader and cast it back out.  Two minutes later, I am into another monster fish that has the reel on meltdown again. This time I was ready for it  and proceeded to adjust the drag while my Father-in-Law cranked up the downriggers and was getting to turn the boat around to give chase.   In that short period of time, the fish was within 10 feet of spooling me with the drag cranked all the way down when the fly popped loose again.  It never did slow down. Mike Wilson Fishing!! What else is there?

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I often remember the big fish that I’ve lost, especially from a mistake I made.  Any interest in exchanging the tales?

    This is a little long…    Jackson and I had spent most of the morning trying to gain access from ranchers to the river.  We knew from maps that the state had designated it "Gold Medal Water" but we were determined to get on it somewhere other than the few public acess points.     At the time Jackson was tractor salesman for Case power equipment so it seemd he was the right one to go knocking on strangers doors.  After all, they all owned tractors.  The hard part was guessing who were the Case guys and who were the John Deers!!  A fella can be kinda partial to his heavy machinery, right up there with the pickup.     And so it went – "No", after "No" after nobody home,  when finally we hit paydirt.     "Be sure to close the gate!"     Always obey this request.  We were in.  A short drive and we came upon the water – wide and slow, winding through hay fields.  We began to walk down current and came to a hard dog leg in the stream.  A nice backeddy curled against the current.  As we looked the risers became evident.  Jackson patted me on the back – a little harder than I liked, but that was OK, our mission was accomplished.     There was such an abundance of available food for these fish – terresterials and aquatics alike, that we really didn’t know what to use.  One thing was certain – it was going to be dry.     I went with a #14 irresistable and proceeded to put down every fish I cast to.  Well, not put down exactly, they would simply move five feet ahead of where I could reach after a couple of presentations.  Jackson was having the same kind of success.     I had started fishing down stream of the bend, but soon found myself standing right in it with the trout now rising behind me.  That’s when Mike (Jackson) called me.     "Jonnie boy – check this dude!"     I climbed out of the stream and walked over to him.  From where he was standing I saw nothing at first.  Then she breeched.  Such a rainbow I’d never been this close to.  The rise was stupid big.  Just a big old bug sucking spotted maw followed by the back of a buffalo and the vertical tail of a whale.     This fish was working less than two feet from shore faceing straight into the current.  The assortment of insects seemed to delight him judging by the way he steadily fed.  I tried to watch what he was eating but it was futile.  There was just too much. I actually watched this pig eat a yellow jacket.     Mike offered up the trout to me; he was going to watch.  I eased into the current no more than 20 feet down stream and waited.  I let this trout rise four or five times before even stripping out line.  I wanted a solid bead on his lie, and I wanted him happy.     My first cast was short.  I waited for one more rise and made a second.  It was perfect.  The irresistable floated happily right over his lie.  Dammitt. Again I waited for him to show.  Then I tried to time it – kind of like a surfer counting waves.     It was time.  The cast was true and it was clear – even before it happened – that this was the cast.  Mike knew it too and even called out – just before he struck – "That’s it".     He was right.     That trout took so confidently that I had to laugh.  I did.  Then I really started laughing as the fish made an immediate downstream run.  Downstream? This I was not ready for.  Don’t ask me why.  The fish swam right passed me.  I could have hit him with the rod. I stripped my wet ass off to keep the line tight and then right back out again and suddenly on the reel.  The old Medalist chugged and groaned and I suddenly realised this fish was well on it’s way to spooling me.  I clammered out of the stream and up onto the high bank.     Mr. fish was an easy 60 yards into the backing when I had this great idea. Instead of continuing the chase on foot I’d:     "Put a little pressure on him"     Famous last words.  The hook had simply pulled free.  I fell back into the tall golden grass and held my forehead.  Jackson was quick to produce a flask of good scotch.  Dam that was a good belt of whisky.   JE JE

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Wish this was mine, but it’s a good story anyway… My brother in law live in LA, and he’s a fishing nut! I took him to the quality waters here in New Mexico with a guide ’cause the water was flowing at almost 5000 cfm. We’re in Texas hole, and close to the top of the hole. He casts to the rapids, and gets a strike, a big one! He asks the guide what to do, and the guide say’s let him run. He ran about a hundred yards and tied up the line in a tree. I never heard a fly reel scream like that in my life! Sure wish it would have been me….

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Michael Goldstein wrote [great thread snipped] Long before I started fly fishing, when I was 12, I fished for bonito from a "bait barge" in Long Beach harbor.  I was fishing a live anchovy in the usual manner with no weight…just the free swimming bait fish.  (I’ve been told by my marine fishing buddies that this type of fishing is called ‘fly fishing’ … go figure). Anyway, on one particular day I was fishing with my $10 trout rod/reel spinning combo I had bought at Thrifty Drug store…You know, the cheap little spinning jobs where the line is always getting caught underneath the spool and wrapped around the axle.  (You probably have to be at least 35 years old to know the cheap little reel I’m talkin about).  Anyway, on this one particular day here I was with my bait in the water and the line caught up and wrapped under the spool in the usual fashion.  In this situation there’s nothing to do but remove the spool and unwind the tangle.  So, while I had the spool off and I’m unwrapping the line, a bonito hits…don’t know how big, but those of you who’ve caught ‘em know how they run when they hit that anchovy. So here I am, with the spool off and the fish pulling away like crazy and my trying to get control and put the spool back on … and the damn fish pulled the whole rig out of my hands and over the rail…rod, reel … everything gone. I was not a happy camper that day! —                                                       -dnc-

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I often remember the big fish that I’ve lost, especially from a mistake I made.  Any interest in exchanging the tales?  Herewith a modest contribution. (Section deleted) Finally hooked a carp. I can remember fishing for Bluegill in my favorite section of Big Bear Lake with my 3wt when I hooked into a monster.  It took about 20 minutes to get this thing close to me.  The largest Bluegill I’ve ever seen.  It was absolutely HUGE!! I wanted to keep it as I knew nobody would believe me when I told them how big. I had no net with me, after all who needs to net Bluegill.  I couldn’t get my hand around him and being a Bluegill couldn’t put my thumb in is mouth. No way to grab him !!!  Finally my 6x tippet gave way.  I dropped my rod and tried to grab with both hands, but he just slowly swam away. The following week I heard someone had caught a 4lb  9oz record the very next day. I guess you just can’t win them all. Bill

While liveing in San Mateo Fl. one of my neibors was going to St. Augustine with his boat to fish and asked me to go along. My only rod at the time was a bamboo 7wt 7′ and I thought a mudler minnow with a straight leader of 20lb test would work fine in salt. We were up under the bridge of lions when I thought I was bottom hung. I started to be able gently to crank in line with just a bit of trouble when this shadow started to show and my buddy asked what the hell I had. As it came up I saw the eye of the most god awful tarpon I had ever even heard of. At that point he decided this was a bit more than a minor nuisance. There was this terrific splash of water and he was gone, my fly rod was broken just above the grip and all I could do was sit there shaking, looking at the busted rod. That was a 14′ boat and that fish was at least half the boat size. That is the truth although I can understand any disbeliefe.                                                         John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These first few aren’t huge but memorable nonetheless… I guess there’s one every season or so for me,  a brown that took a hares ear spider on one side of the river, and immediately bolted for a single snag/branch hanging into the water clear across stream and promptly wrapped the leader around it, I barely had set the hook. Same river, two years or so earlier, a rainbow picked up a damsel nymph hit the main main current, crossed the current to a backwater on the other bank 20 yards downstream leapt and hung the line up in a bush. Then there are the bruisers … usually in backwaters … I did my first and only float trip last year … what a revelation.  This damned river Goulburn is much maligned as being difficult to fish and so it is, if you are looking for a swag of fish taken in runs, glides etc. Naturally things are differnt during a hatch, then selectivbity is a problem. On that trip I was broken in a backwater on the strike to a parachute dun, guide reckons "Biig"  …hard to tell I guess, but the sight of that dun disappearing is something I won’t forget, damn fish charged it and managed to break the fly-knot on 6 lb tippet when I lifted into him. Man there is some serious recovery time needed after things like that. The best thing about that trip though was I found where the fish were, very few mid-stream, mostly backwaters and hard against the bank near overhang branches and the like.  It gave me confidence in the water I knew there where fish and roughly where … so now I fish it with a heap of confidence, knowing that patience will pay off. Two weeks after the float, I returned foot, I watched backwaters relly looked and sure enough, 2lb plus fish accessible form the bank admittedly in tricky circumstances.  I spotted a much larger brown cruising a particular back water 6 times , always he’d be coming toward me or I’d be caugth in the open and couldn’t move … on the seven occasion the wind blew and riffled the water as he swam away .. the size 14 heavy wire fiery-brown nymph was taken, I lifted and all hell broke loose in the shallow water.  I couldn’t afford to let him run at all because of logs, and you guessed it … the hook straightened.  I cursed a little and *laughed* a hell of a lot while untangling leaderr and line from around my ears and hat, checked my watch –  one cast in 3 hours and worth every last second of it. That float trip has changed the way I fish ~that~ river forever. Geez …then there a the lake fish …. Steve

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I often remember the big fish that I’ve lost, especially from a mistake I made.  Any interest in exchanging the tales?  Herewith a modest contribution. I often fish a pond near my house in Princeton, NJ which contains sunnys, smallmouth, and HUGE carp, i.e. 10+ lbs.  Generally, I’ll try to catch the smallmouth, switching to the carp if I see them cruising.  But in a year of hit-and-miss trying, I’ve never gotten a carp on.  They are extremely spooky, and even if you get a nymph on their nose while they’re tailing (generally what I’m trying to do), it’s very hard to read a take. It’s late Fall, and the pond is already cold enough that the smallmouth aren’t hitting.  Rather than go home skunked, I switch to a smaller streamer that is more likely to catch a sunny (though it still might attract a bass). On the first cast of the new streamer, it stops after a short retrieve. Now, if you’ve ever fished for smallmouth you know that one of the problems with catching them is hooking them.  Their jaws are so powerful that even if you try to set the hook hard, once, they may have the fly locked in their jaws, and will spit it out after a few seconds.  So, hoping the fish might be a smallmouth, I lock the line against the rod and hit it a second time. The theory here is that, with six pound tippet, it won’t matter if I lock up against a sunny, or even a smallmouth (which on this pond rarely get bigger than 2 pounds).  But I want to make sure the hook is set. As I’m pulling on the line, I see a grey torpedo explode from the bottom of the pond near my fly.  The acceleration is so rapid that a bow wave builds up in front of it across the entire width of the pond (maybe 150 feet).  My jaw drops as I react to the awesome power display, and try to track the streak with my rod tip.  It takes me a second to realize I should release my lock on the line, but as I do, the 6 lb tippet parts. Finally hooked a carp.

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Michael Goldstein: <<I often remember the big fish that I’ve lost, especially from a mistake I made.  Any interest in exchanging the tales? (good story snipped) I was fishing a river in Maine, early in the season which means I was lobbing big streamers with a 6 weight.  I had a reel on that did not have the best drag system, and hitched into a *very* big fish.  He zoomed across the pool and was headed down-stream to the next pool when I palmed my reel — palmed it too much, that is. The tippet broke and a couple of guys near me gasped in disappointment. About 30 minutes later a local fisherman started fishing and I thought his set up strange:  He had a sinking line, very short leader, and was tying on a #10 White Wulff.  He cast into the current and when the fly was down stream he retreaved it *very* slowly.  On his second cast, He was into a big fish.  I left the water, put my rod down and watched him land a 28 inch Togue (laketrout that gets into a river).  The togue had my white Zonker in his jaw, right next to the White Wulff!  He killed the togue, tied it to his Maine basket, packed up and left.  He had his supper.   Dave LaCourse

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I often fish a pond near my house in Princeton, NJ which contains sunnys, smallmouth, and HUGE carp, i.e. 10+ lbs.  Generally, I’ll try to catch the smallmouth, switching to the carp if I see them cruising.  But in a year of hit-and-miss trying, I’ve never gotten a carp on.  They are extremely spooky, …

I’ve never caught a carp on a nymph or a streamer, only on mulberry flies. When the mulberries get ripe and drop into the water you toss a hunk of purple yarn under the tree. Some folks scatter bread crumbs on a spot for a week or two then use a "bread crumb" fly to catch carp. I don’t, I feel guilty enough about the mulberries. — Ken Fortenberry

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I often remember the big fish that I’ve lost, especially from a mistake I made.  Any interest in exchanging the tales?

We were camped at Rainbow Lake, about 10,000 ft above sea level on the Doubletop Mt. Trail in the Wind River Range. Finis Mitchell’s book claimed that Rainbow Lake was an excellent fishery. Being a flatlander I was not very good at unlocking the secrets of a high alpine lake. I tried my whole bag of lake methods and being limited to fishing from the shore, (no float tube or boat), I got discouraged and inattentive. I had a muddler minnow that I tossed purposefully but retrieved casually. On one of the strips of the retrieve, while I was planning where to make the next "perfect" cast, something hit that muddler so hard it took muddler tippet and all. I just wasn’t paying attention. — Ken Fortenberry

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I often fish a pond near my house in Princeton, NJ which contains sunnys, smallmouth, and HUGE carp, i.e. 10+ lbs.  Generally, I’ll try to catch the smallmouth, switching to the carp if I see them cruising.  But in a year of hit-and-miss trying, I’ve never gotten a carp on.  They are extremely spooky, …

Folklore says that carp can feel the vibrations you impart to the line   (movement, heartbeat and breathing). If you want to catch them, get a y shaped stick and shove the straight end into the ground. Prop up the fishing rod with the y shaped part of the stick. If you are using a fly, watch for line movement unrelated to the current flow. The subtle line movement (especially in calmer waters) around the shore will indicate a carp or sucker is on the line. When you see the movement, pick up the rod and set the hook. Failure to do so will possibly mean that your fly rod will be yanked into the water by the carp/sucker. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve never caught a carp on a nymph or a streamer, only on mulberry flies. When the mulberries get ripe and drop into the water you toss a hunk of purple yarn under the tree. Some folks scatter bread crumbs on a spot for a week or two then use a "bread crumb" fly to catch carp. I don’t, I feel guilty enough about the mulberries. — Ken Fortenberry

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I often remember the big fish that I’ve lost, especially from a mistake I made.  Any interest in exchanging the tales?  Herewith a modest contribution.

I’ve got two 12 years or so ago I was fishing the Androscoggin River somewhere near Errol, NH during the famed alder fly hatch. As dark was coming on I was fishing a nice pool and I noticed a fish sipping flies in a back eddy behind a rock, I dropped a fly on him and got a beautiful head and tail rise, to my amazement the fish was quite large, I missed him and he never came back up. The next day I got position in the same pool fairly early and just at dark there he was. I dropped my fly on him and he took it, I setup and my reel began to scream as he headed out into the main current. About 10 yards out he popped the leader. I thought well ok and then the fish leapt out of the water 4 times, each time furthur out in the river, apparantly trying to spit the hook. I esitmate the fish was between 25-30", at that time possibly the biggest trout I had ever hooked. A few years ago fishing for browns in a Maine river  at dark I cast on a sipper. I set the hook and my rod bent right to the water, the reel began to scream as the fish ran downriver. I pulled the anchor in the boat to drift with the fish as my partner manned the oars. This was the biggest fish I have ever hooked (I think) the fish stripped me to the backing, turned up stream and came off as the line went slack ( I was stripping in like a madman but not fast enough). I never saw him, just felt the power and dream of a rematch! dave

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Good thread, Michael. Fishing on the Beaverhead two years ago, floating below Dillon with the pontoon boat.  Slow day in September, having to pound them up and not much sucess at that either.   Dropped a two nymph rig into a drop-off that must have been 15 feet deep, and just let it sink – fooling around, mostly.  WHAM.  Rod bends straight down (like I was jigging for 10 pound crappies or something).  Five seconds later leader pops at, of all places, the nail knot attachment to the fly line.  Lost the entire leader.  First and only time that has ever happened to me, but now I carry an extra leader. Then there was the time…… (man, I got a load of these kind of stories) Mark Faulkner

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Then there was the time…… (man, I got a load of these kind of stories)

Yeah, me too.  The most painful fish I ever lost…. Last year I went with a friend to fish the classic chalk streams of England. One day we’re fishing the Lodden.  The water was off color that day, and nothing was rising.  So I start, like any self respecting American fisherman, working a nymph, not realizing it’s not allowed on this river. (The guide is a young chap who’s filling in for the guy who booked the trip, and he doesn’t know either.)  Anyway, so I’m fishing to a bunch of fish that have never seen an artificial nymph, and iIt’s a perfect river for this kind of fishing, as the fish have concentrated in some deep holes. In one hole, having taken a bunch of fish — easily 10 in the 2  lbs. class in less than an hour, all stockers — I see a huge shape flash on, then refuse, my bead-head hare’s ear. After a dozen casts, and no further luck, I tie on a "large olive bead head damsel nymph, tied Matuka style". In other words, a wooly bugger. Sacrilege in these parts, even where nymphing is OK. I just happened to have one in my vest, and the guide is helping my friend, so he can’t object. I feel deliciously wicked. I’m fishing on a short line on the dead drift. On the second cast the line hesitates, and I lift the rod. The resistance is so firm, I’m sure it’s bottom. But then the line starts to vibrate. It’s a bloody great fish! The line noses down, then my reel screams as the fish takes off across the pool. Then down again, there’s nothing I can do but let it run. Then upstream 20 yards, with me chasing it along the bank.  I get a good look at it, it’s a huge brown trout, at least 30"! Then across to the far bank into the reeds. I put some side pressure on him and the line goes limp! Broken off at the fly. When we were fishing drys, the guide had put on 7x tippet, and I hadn’t realized. With 2.5 pound breaking strength, I’ve been too forceful. To make it even worse, guide points out that this was undoubtedly a wild fish, since the stocked trout are rarely more than 2 pounds, or 20 inches. I feel ill, mentally replaying the fatal sideways pressure, wishing I had shortened the tippet to a 6 lbs. breaking strenght 4x.  In the stained water, nymphing, it would have been fine.   It takes me about an hour before I have the heart to fish again!

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Question:

Im looking for 3 patterns:  Bitch Creek, Yuk Bug, and a North Platte Special.  Any info would be greatly appreciated as I am fairly new to tying my own flies.  You can respond to the e-mail listed below: Again thanks for your help!

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I’d suggest you spring for the Umpaqua Fly Pattern book, it has at least the first two. Not sure about the NP special. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im looking for 3 patterns:  Bitch Creek, Yuk Bug, and a North Platte Special.  Any info would be greatly appreciated as I am fairly new to tying my own flies.  You can respond to the e-mail listed below: Again thanks for your help!

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Im looking for 3 patterns:  Bitch Creek, Yuk Bug, and a North Platte Special.  Any info would be greatly appreciated as I am fairly new to tying my own flies.  You can respond to the e-mail listed below: Again thanks for your help!

That’s what fly fishing catalogues are for!  Between Kaufmann’s, Orvis, and LLBean (ugly flies in that one!) you can find a whole bunch of flies to copy

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Question:

I tried the Demo and it is a lot like Trophy Bass. Since I own Trophy Bass and enjoy it I think I would definitely enjoy Trophy Rivers. I haven’t ordered it as of yet but I probably will before too long. It’s a fun way to spend an evening when you’re tired of tying flies <Grin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has any one tried the Trophy rivers fly fishing game?

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I tried the demo and was very impressed.  The Trophy Bass I & II games are supposed to be terriffic.  I was always hoping they would release a fly fishing cyber-angling (that’s their term) game. Enjoy, Josh I think the release day of the game is today, November 21. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Has any one tried the Trophy rivers fly fishing game?  

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It’s a fun way to spend an evening when you’re tired of tying flies <Grin

How could you ever get tired of tying flies? Bryce

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Question:

Looking for any information on fly fishing for trout in the Phoenix, Arizona area, radius 250 miles.  Streams, rivers, lakes, etc..

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Sedona, is w/in your 250 miles, boasts art galleries, shops, and great fishing. There is a small stream, Oak Creek Canyon, that holds Browns and stocked Bows. Fish above slide rock for the browns.  Tan Caddis larva was working well this month.  The White Mountains, about 200 miles east of Phoenix has a wide variety of streams and lakes, almost all of which are full of browns, bows, brookies, and the native Apache golden trout. (602)902-0881.

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Question:

I am very interested in taking a flyfishing trip to Montana and would very much appreciate any info on when and where to go. I am considering driving up during the late May-late June time frame. I have primarily fished in WA on stillwaters (beaver ponds,etc.) and would like suggestions as to which rivers might offer the best access for wading as I don’t have access to a boat. I would be interested in hiring a guide for a couple of days; if anyone has either personal experience with or knowlege of any reputable guides I would be most appreciative.   Email response is OK for the sake of bandwidth. Thanks in advance. Kelly Van Arsdel

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I am very interested in taking a flyfishing trip to Montana and would very much appreciate any info on when and where to go. I am considering driving up during the late May-late June time frame. I have primarily fished in WA on stillwaters (beaver ponds,etc.) and would like suggestions as to which rivers might offer the best access for wading as I don’t have access to a boat. I would be interested in hiring a guide for a couple of days; if anyone has either personal experience with or knowlege of any reputable guides I would be most appreciative.

    Late May to late June, eh?  Well, a couple of good smaller rivers that should be in pretty good shape then are Rock Creek, the Big Hole and Beaverhead Rivers, and probably the upper reaches of the Jefferson.  I’d suggest going mid-June or so, that way you can probably wander into the salmon fly hatch on one of those streams, which is a gas.  I personnally am partial to the upper stretches of the Big Hole, but Rock Creek, while it still has water in it, might be a better bet.    All of these waters are in western MT, btw.                     Scott

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| | I am very interested in taking a flyfishing trip to Montana and would very | much appreciate any info on when and where to go. I am considering driving | up during the late May-late June time frame. I have primarily fished in WA | on stillwaters (beaver ponds,etc.) and would like suggestions as to which | rivers might offer the best access for wading as I don’t have access to a | boat. I would be interested in hiring a guide for a couple of days; if anyone | has either personal experience with or knowlege of any reputable guides I | would be most appreciative.  I’ve only been up there once, but had a great time.  I would suggest thinking about july or august.  June may be a little early with runnoff and conditions.  Also, if you havent been to Yellowstone, you may want to go there instead….fly into Jackson Hole and then go north and fish the madison, yellowstone, or others.  Or, you could fly into one of towns north of yellowstone park in montana(livingston or boseman).  Then you would have the option of going in several directions.  However, the yellowstone park is worth visiting.  Also, if they’re rising the yellowstone river ten or twenty miles above old faithful is great. drex

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