Question:

Uh huh.  Must be speaking from experience. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – likes boys.

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  Uh huh. George, you cry like a baby when someone posts crap like this about you. riverman

Well, you’re right.  If Connor would stop stalking ALL OF ROFF, it might help. But, you make a good point. George

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Tattle-taler Connor is a loser.  Sneaky back stabber, two faced coward, stalker, yellow spined sissy, troller, jealousy of George, devious, blue thingie poster, limited fly fishing knowledge but fair fly tier . . . quibbler, untrustworthy poster, attention hungry . . . likes boys. George Gehrke

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Tattle-taler Connor is a loser.  Sneaky back stabber, two faced coward, stalker, yellow spined sissy, troller, jealousy of George, devious, blue thingie poster, limited fly fishing knowledge but fair fly tier . . . quibbler, untrustworthy poster, attention hungry . . . likes boys. George Gehrke

Uh huh. George, you cry like a baby when someone posts crap like this about you. riverman

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Question:

Just one other point, a very wise man once said to me when I asked him if something was a good idea " If you have to think very long and very hard about it, and are still not sure, don’t do it".

Excellent point. Right now I’m leaning to getting the horses. It all depends on how my stock options pan out. Money can turn what otherwise would be a terrible idea into an excellent idea.

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<equine opine snipped PS-Stay away from llamas, they are for grass maggot (sheep) herders and a major pain (attitudes).

Spoken like a true Montanan. Welcome, Warren. — Ken Fortenberry

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Vaccinations twice a year are a good idea, and if you have the money (it sounds like you do), vet checks are a good idea. Have the vets come out and worm/vaccinate twice a year, and they’ll spot something early that you might not, especially as a beginner.

And DON’T forget to get a vet check BEFORE you buy a horse.  It can save you a ton of money in the long run.   Vaccinations are a good idea, but not necessary unless the horses are going to come into contact with tons of other horses.  I guess the main reason we don’t is that we have too many and it is easier to treat on an as needed basis. However, for two, better to be safe than sorry is a good philosophy.  It really isn’t that expensive to do it yourself. The key is keeping the vet away unless necessary.  So the more you learn and are able to do, the less reliance you will have on a vet to come out and give shots/worm. Worming is easy, just a tube that shoots out measured amounts of a paste based upon the body weight (you actually set the tube with the weight and it premeasures sort of).  Just have to make sure to get it way back in the mouth so they don’t spit it out. Most stuff is fairly easy and you will pick it up as you go.  It kind of helps you bond with the animal and the animal with you.  I can’t put into words how important the relationship is between a horse and a rider, but it involves lots of trust and patience.  It will eventually turn into a bond that will hopefully last a lifetime. I would also suggest that maybe you start taking riding lessons before you buy horses.  The instructor will be able to teach you many things about horse care and horsemanship that will be invaluable down the road. Warren

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I’m partial to llamas in the backcountry. They can carry 100-120 lbs of gear (but not you), their padded feet are easier on the trails than a horse’s hoofs and they browse and eat their own food instead of grazing on scarce mountain grasses.

Llamas are out of the question. For one thing I need an animal to carry ME for one or two days, not 120 lbs of gear. For another thing, I’d be laughed out of Custer County.

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I’m not, nor will I ever be, an equestrian. But I’ve known enough of them that I’m familiar with some of the potential pitfalls of horse ownership. The best way to sum it up is to say that on a cost/hour basis, horses don’t make much economic sense for the casual fisherman. I realize that boarding costs are highly variable, presumably driven by geography and relative cost of living, but the prospect of shelling out thousands of dollars annually for a couple months’ usage would certainly be a sobering prospect indeed for many of us. Another point to consider: ATV’s are replacing working horses on some ranches (for some jobs). I bet it’s because they’re ‘cheaper to keep’. Good luck.

ATVs aren’t allowed most places I want to go. They don’t even allow mountain bikes. Also, I’m not looking at this as a purely economic deal. I like horses and I like riding them. I’m mainly concerned about the learning curve because I’ve never kept them before.

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Get the horses.  As a matter of fact buy some of my inlaws horses.  I already crash tested one. Seriously, horses are great for hunting and fishing trips.  You won’t need to ship them out to CA for the winter either.  We have over 40 head and keep them outside all winter long up here in Montana. As to feeding. That depends on how much room you have there.  You might get by with grazing them off the pasture if it is big enough and then feeding them hay in the winter.  Hay isn’t all that expensive really.  A horse needs about 2% of its body weight of feed a day.  A 1200 lb horse comes out to a wopping 24 pounds of hay.  Don’t know what the hay prices down there are, but up here it is about $60/ton of good alfalfa. As far as routine medications, just wormer once a year.  Maybe twice a year to be safe.  Want to be even safer?  Worm them or have them wormed before you bring them home.  Shouldn’t have to see a vet at all.  With 40 head we have had the vet out twice this year.  Both horses got caught in a fence.  One while rolling on the ground and got collicky because it was in the fence for several hours overnight and twisted (bad for horses intestines).  The other we think was kicking at a dog and got its legged stuck in a coral panel.  That one was pretty nasty. Try to find a book on horse care and read it for yourself and decide how much hassle it will be for you. Cost wise they are not too bad.  The big pain is in the beginning.  You can find a younger (5-10 year old horse) that is well broke for around $1,500. Then saddles and the other tack, well that depends on new or used.  Make sure you actually sit in the saddle before you buy one.  Ideally you want to sit in it on the horse to get a good feel for it.  Usually can’t though so just make sure you butt isn’t too big (or small).  You won’t need a fancy roping saddle or anything so used you can probably pick one up for about $400-500.  Shop around!  Read the classifieds, check out feed stores (sometimes they have bullentin boards with horses and tack for sale). Being on the high side, look to spend about $6,000 for 2 horses and tack and another $600 or so a year on hay. There are several things you can to do in taking care of horses to make them less at risk for disease, injury, and sickness so arm yourself with knowledge and make the decision afterwards. Happy Trails and Tight Lines. Warren PS-Stay away from llamas, they are for grass maggot (sheep) herders and a major pain (attitudes).

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I’m not, nor will I ever be, an equestrian. But I’ve known enough of them that I’m familiar with some of the potential pitfalls of horse ownership. The best way to sum it up is to say that on a cost/hour basis, horses don’t make much economic sense for the casual fisherman. I realize that boarding costs are highly variable, presumably driven by geography and relative cost of living, but the prospect of shelling out thousands of dollars annually for a couple months’ usage would certainly be a sobering prospect indeed for many of us. Another point to consider: ATV’s are replacing working horses on some ranches (for some jobs). I bet it’s because they’re ‘cheaper to keep’. Good luck. Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The very best flyfishing in my area (central Idaho) is fairly inaccessible. There are excellent wilderness rivers and backcountry lakes that require some pretty heroic hiking to get to, if you’re not rafting. Once you get there, though, you have it all to yourself, aside from the odd backpacker or two. I’m thinking of getting a couple of horses. I have room for a nice paddock next to my cabin. It’s also a consideration that my older daughter adores horses, and I made the potentially serious mistake of mentioning this idea to her. It’s really, really tempting. The other day, while hiking out from a backcountry lake and sweating blood, a couple of horseback riders passed me going up the trail at a fast trot. They were like gods. It looked so wonderful. My problem is that I have virtually no experience keeping horses. Just a few pack trips. How difficult is it? I’m what you’d call an animal-oriented person. I’ve always had lots of dogs and cats and a multitude of other creatures, but no horses. I figure that at a minimum I’d have to build a fence for the paddock, buy all the gear (in addition to the horses), find a ferrier and a large-animal vet, get a two-horse trailer, and arrange for someone to take care of them for the short periods when I’m not around. Then there’s the question of what to do with them in the winter. I figure I could trailer them back to my home in northern California (Menlo Park) and board them at one of the many stables here. These stables mostly cater to Woodside billionaires, but what the heck. It can’t be that expensive for a few months. Is this a stupid idea? Will I regret it?

Response:

The very best flyfishing in my area (central Idaho) is fairly inaccessible. There are excellent wilderness rivers and backcountry lakes that require some pretty heroic hiking to get to, if you’re not rafting. Once you get there, though, you have it all to yourself, aside from the odd backpacker or two. I’m thinking of getting a couple of horses.

I’m partial to llamas in the backcountry. They can carry 100-120 lbs of gear (but not you), their padded feet are easier on the trails than a horse’s hoofs and they browse and eat their own food instead of grazing on scarce mountain grasses. — Ken Fortenberry

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Sounds like a great idea to me. If you have the time and possibilities, and can afford it, do it, but check the prices at those stables etc first, you may be very unpleasantly surprised, also horses involve a lot of care and work, far more than one imagines. Trailering them is also a pain, for you and for the horses. Mountain bikes can be thrown in the cabin or garage when you are done with them, don’t eat, don’t crap, and don’t get ill apart from an occasional broken chain etc. They cost much less than horses, they are less likely to get stolen, or run away, they are not edible to any great degree, and can not be turned into sausage meat, they do not wear extremely costly handmade steel shoes which require frequent replacement,  do not require horrendously expensive injections and medications at regular intervals, and they also require no looking after when you are absent. They do not engender quite as much enthusiasm on the part of dutiful daughters ( dutiful at least until the first ton of horse manure has to be shovelled out of somewhere ! ) I know a couple of the aforementioned daughters ! Their parents own quite a few horses. Quite amazing how often they have "urgent appointments" when the novelty has worn off, and the animals have to be groomed or cleaned out etc etc. If your daughter wants to ride, rent a horse for her for a while until you are certain she will keep it up and it is worth it. I know all this because I help out ( which usually means I shovel horse shit ! ) for the chance of an occasional ride on one of my friends horses. Not trying to dissuade you in any way, just playing advocatus diaboli. Just one other point, a very wise man once said to me when I asked him if something was a good idea " If you have to think very long and very hard about it, and are still not sure, don’t do it". TL MC

Response:

The very best flyfishing in my area (central Idaho) is fairly inaccessible. There are excellent wilderness rivers and backcountry lakes that require some pretty heroic hiking to get to, if you’re not rafting. Once you get there, though, you have it all to yourself, aside from the odd backpacker or two. I’m thinking of getting a couple of horses. I have room for a nice paddock next to my cabin. It’s also a consideration that my older daughter adores horses, and I made the potentially serious mistake of mentioning this idea to her. It’s really, really tempting. The other day, while hiking out from a backcountry lake and sweating blood, a couple of horseback riders passed me going up the trail at a fast trot. They were like gods. It looked so wonderful. My problem is that I have virtually no experience keeping horses. Just a few pack trips. How difficult is it? I’m what you’d call an animal-oriented person. I’ve always had lots of dogs and cats and a multitude of other creatures, but no horses. I figure that at a minimum I’d have to build a fence for the paddock, buy all the gear (in addition to the horses), find a ferrier and a large-animal vet, get a two-horse trailer, and arrange for someone to take care of them for the short periods when I’m not around. Then there’s the question of what to do with them in the winter. I figure I could trailer them back to my home in northern California (Menlo Park) and board them at one of the many stables here. These stables mostly cater to Woodside billionaires, but what the heck. It can’t be that expensive for a few months. Is this a stupid idea? Will I regret it?

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Question:

Just don’t get caught using a Bastard with a woolly bugger! DBJ "Why do I not practice what I preach? – I am not the sort of person I preach to!" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw an add for Climax leaders, yesterday.  It said something about "tight butt".  I told my wife that I had a climax with a tight butt and she wondered what the hell I was talking about.  Humor in Flyfishing!

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I think your wife understands more than we may be willing to admit to. Taos Cuthroat

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I saw an add for Climax leaders, yesterday.  It said something about "tight butt".  I told my wife that I had a climax with a tight butt and she wondered what the hell I was talking about.  Humor in Flyfishing!

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.  I told my wife that I had a climax with a tight butt         that’s a world class death wish you got goin there, pal. wayno

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Question:

I’m looking for a fresh water fly fishing buddy.  I live in Fairfax county.

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OK weevee66.  You wanna fish for trout and smallmouth or are shad, carp, largemouth, catfish and other trash fish your main quarry?  When were you born and what is your real name?  Many of us posted brief Bios awhile back. Care to do the same?  Send me a private e-mail with a detailed listing of all your best secret fishing holes and we will talk.  I’m just outside of Fredericksburg. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a fresh water fly fishing buddy.  I live in Fairfax county.

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Question:

Please teach a newbie gardener the basics of dividing irises.  The specific Iris I have in mind is Siberian, I think, tall with lance-shaped leaves and small blooms.  The plant itself is doing wonderfully (20 blossoms and counting), but I’ve noticed that it’s taken on a circular growing pattern, with a blank space of soil at the center.  I understand that this is a sign that the plant needs to be divided and/or moved. How do I cut the rhiozomes to divide the plant? When is the best time of year to perform the operation? Do irises need to be moved to fresh soil occasionally?

Siberian irises have bulbs, not rhizomes.  You divide them [in the fall] by cutting off all the leaves about 4" above ground level, digging up the entire clump, gently splitting the bulbs apart, and replanting at about 6" depth, and 8-12" separation.  To avoid fungus problems, I generally wash and dry the bulbs before replanting, and dust with sulphur, but this is completely optional. To divide rhizomatous iris, cut off the leaves, dig up the clump, wash off the soil, and, using a sharp knife, divide the rhizomes into groups of 1-3 leaf bundles.  Dry very well, and dust with sulphur before replanting, with the rhizomes above the ground.  [In very cold areas you put winter mulch on the rhizomes after the ground freezes, and remove it in early spring.] As long as you are fertilizing regularly, your irises don’t need to be moved to a new location. Chris Owens

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Siberian irises have bulbs, not rhizomes.

  Did you mean the reverse?  Mine grow in expanding grass-like clumps of nearly solid root mass so it’s hard to tell.  Looks more like a rhizome.   With healthy clumps of Cesears Brother, I’ve heard it recommended to dig them up and run over them with a car until you get them broken into managable clumps.  It’ll take a pick ax to get mine out of the ground. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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Please teach a newbie gardener the basics of dividing irises.  The specific Iris I have in mind is Siberian, I think, tall with lance-shaped leaves and small blooms.  The plant itself is doing wonderfully (20 blossoms and counting), but I’ve noticed that it’s taken on a circular growing pattern, with a blank space of soil at the center.  I understand that this is a sign that the plant needs to be divided and/or moved. How do I cut the rhiozomes to divide the plant? When is the best time of year to perform the operation? Do irises need to be moved to fresh soil occasionally? Thanks in advance, Doctor Fang

Response:

Please teach a newbie gardener the basics of dividing irises. The specific Iris I have in mind is Siberian, I think, tall with lance-shaped leaves and small blooms.  The plant itself is doing wonderfully (20 blossoms and counting), but I’ve noticed that it’s taken on a circular growing pattern, with a blank space of soil at the center.  I understand that this is a sign that the plant needs to be divided and/or moved.

Sounds like a siberian, if the leaves are half an inch or so in width. Divided, yes perhaps.  It may be a good idea, but isn’t absolutely necessry if it’s blooming well and you’re satisfied with the appearance.  20 blooms isn’t a lot for a clump. How do I cut the rhiozomes to divide the plant?

Cut the foliage back to about 6" on the part you are about to cut away, so you can see what you are doing.  Take a sharp pointed spade and make a vertical cut through the ring.  Drive the spade down as deeply as you can.  You want to get as much root as possible.  Siberians are very deep rooted.  Move along the ring to include as many crowns as you want, or perhaps about 6" and make another cut.  If necessary cut also along the outside edge to free the section up and then remove it.  Take as much soil with the division as possible, to minimize root disturbance. Some people advocate doing this to a long established clump every year, removing 1/4 to 1/3 of the clump.  Each year you take the oldest remaining section.  When a section is removed it’s replaced with fresh enriched top soil.  This goes a long way to eliminating the ring effect and leaves a large established clump mostly intact to look good and still bloom well the next year. When is the best time of year to perform the operation?

Siberians are tough.  When it’s finished blooming you can divide it.  The foliage should be cut back (as above).  Keep the new division very well watered for at least several weeks to help them re-establish.  If you don’t want or haven’t room for the divisions send them to me! Do irises need to be moved to fresh soil occasionally?

No, but they grow more vigorously in soil that hasn’t grown iris before or in many years.  Iris give off a substance which acts as a growth inhibitor. Dennis Mathiasen Central NY Zone 4b

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Question:

I may be going to Las Vegas this summer, either June or July.  I do not enjoy casinos, I’d rather be outdoors.  Is there any good fly fishing in the area?  I would appreciate any information.

I too *HATE* casinos and motel rooms are like coffins… …*BUT*, there is salvation in Vegas…the pools… the swimming pools…drinks brought poolside…it’s a hundred and twenty in the frikken shade and ahh…yes…the pools.. it’s like they say…when in Rome… The one thing that I have wanted to do is to try and find a sidewinder in the desert…I’ve never seen one. Of course then I’d be all tired and sweaty and thirsty and the pools would be crying out in their little pathetic voices…"Tim….Tim… come here Tim….I have that drink with the speared fruit and umbrella Tim…." But flyfishing…???? Maybe lead core at Mead…or possibly dry flies in the fountain at the Mirage casting at bikini latches or 100 dollar bills at the bar… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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I may be going to Las Vegas this summer, either June or July.  I do not enjoy casinos, I’d rather be outdoors.  Is there any good fly fishing in the area?  I would appreciate any information. — Sincerely, Fred E. Nakaguma

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Question:

Grow up and get a life!  If you have a "head in the sand" approach to flyfishing that’s fine, but don’t try to foist it on the rest of us.  Most fly fishers enjoy a variety of approaches to catch, and often release, a variety of fish species.   To each his or her own.

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A nicely weighted nymph, quietly cast upstream, on a dead drift, is truly the only sporting way to pursue the honorable Mr. Trout.                                                        __ john quill taylor                                     / / writer at large                                      / /   Hewlett-Packard, Storage Systems Division    __     /_/ / Boise, Idaho U.S.A.                         /_/  __ _ Telephone: (208) 396-2328 (MST = GMT – 7)     /  \  / Snail Mail: Hewlett-Packard                    / \             11413 Chinden Blvd                 \             Boise, Idaho 83714                   _/             Mailstop 852                            _/                                                   _/       "When in doubt, do as doubters do." – jqt –                   haiti, rwanda, cuba, bosnia, … we have a list,              where is our schindler?

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Question:

A FF partner is visiting Switzerland for several weeks in Aug/Sep and he is wondering what FF opportunities and requirements exist for said same. Please E me or post. "The true angler is always content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

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  A FF partner is visiting Switzerland for several weeks in Aug/Sep and he is   wondering what FF opportunities and requirements exist for said same. Please   E me or post.   "The true angler is always content to fish alone"   Brian Di Carlo If he’s going to the Geneva area I think the best bet is to go to the nearby French rivers (known to be the best in France) the ‘loue’, ‘doubs’, ‘ain’ and ‘bienne’  and catch trout and grayling. These are all within 2-3 hours drive from Geneva. Closer still is the Rhone river leaving lake Geneva in the middle of town.  It is not as famous for its fly fishing though. I don’t know the german part of Switzerland, but found a URL on the web. http://www.access.ch/whoiswho//zulauf8.html   If he’s going to the Geneva area, drop me an email and I’ll provide some addresses and phone numbers. Cheers,         Peter. —  Peter Sollander, CERN ST/MC/TCR  Tel: (+41) 22.767.8081          Fax: (+41) 22.767.8910        

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Question:

discussing a trip to this area for some Atlantic Salmon fishing. We are going to fly into Portland Maine. Any info on best time, lodges, guides, patterns and equipment would be helpful.

1.  You should probably book with a fishing lodge in Labrador.  (You may be legally obliged to, because of lack of roads, rescue teams etc.)  Call the Newfoundland provincial tourist agency in St. John’s. 1B. There are also salmon lodges in Quebec and New Brunswick. 2.  Portland Maine seems the wrong place to start, i.e. has no road links to Labrador and may have no air links either.  You should probably start in either Montreal or St. John’s (on the island of Newfoundland;  Labrador is on the Canadian mainland) the two likely sources of air taxi links to camps in Labrador. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Starting with the correct spelling:-) Anyway, my Dad and I were discussing a trip to this area for some Atlantic Salmon fishing. We are going to fly into Portland Maine. Any info on best time, lodges, guides, patterns and equipment would be helpful. thanx in advance, Tom.

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Question:

My wife and I just took up this wonderful sport, we’re taking a flyfishing class and buying, buying, buying [8 ).  I have a question about rod weight.  We want to fish lakes and streams for trout but also have a desire to fish for steelhead (I used to "crank and cable" angle the mighty fish in the Mad River, CA).  We are leaning toward a 5/6 weight, 9 ft. rod but it is probably too light for steelhead.  On the other hand, if we go to a 6/7 weight, 9 ft. rod will it also be suitable for the lighter fish, and in fact will this weight be heavy enough for steelhead?  We really don’t have enough $$ to be buying two (x two people) rods. Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.  I haven’t seen an FAQ on this newsgroup so if it is a FAQ then "Flame on". Thanks in Advance Mark — Mark Hemphill-Haley 1272 Department of Geological Sciences University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon 97403-1272

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I just started on this sport myself.  On the other hand, my friend has some good experience under his belt.  Believe it or not!  he has been using weight 6 with 9 feet in length to catch fish range from pink salmon (not King salmon) to trouts.   He had used it for many years while living in Alaska and didn’t have any problem (may be he hasn’t tell me about it yet) Anyway, it depends on your body frame.  If you have a average body frame say 5′7" and weight about 150, I recommend a rod with weigh 6 and 9′ in length.  This is a normal fly rod for beginners anyway.  One thing for sure, don’t buy any rod shorter than 9 feet because you will end up regretted once you pick up some skill.  Also, those fly rods for steelhead/salmon are quite larger, so it can wear your arm out over a long period of flipping it back and forth. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I just took up this wonderful sport, we’re taking a flyfishing class and buying, buying, buying [8 ).  I have a question about rod weight.  We want to fish lakes and streams for trout but also have a desire to fish for steelhead (I used to "crank and cable" angle the mighty fish in the Mad River, CA).  We are leaning toward a 5/6 weight, 9 ft. rod but it is probably too light for steelhead.  On the other hand, if we go to a 6/7 weight, 9 ft. rod will it also be suitable for the lighter fish, and in fact will this weight be heavy enough for steelhead?  We really don’t have enough $$ to be buying two (x two people) rods. Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.  I haven’t seen an FAQ on this newsgroup so if it is a FAQ then "Flame on". Thanks in Advance Mark — Mark Hemphill-Haley 1272 Department of Geological Sciences University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon 97403-1272

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A 6-weight is a good multi-purpose rod which you can use for drys as well as streamers.  It will work fine for the smaller trout which prevail in the Sierra Nevada streams, although my "standard" Sierra rod is a 3-weight.  However, you probably cannot get a good compromise if you want to fish for steelhead and trout. — Law Office of John L. Dodd Tustin, CA

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