Question:

"LAST GAS BEFORE YOSEMITE.  NO GAS IN YOSEMITE VALLEY!"  Their regular unleaded was $2.309.  Both statements were absolutely true – they were the last station before the Yosemite West entrance and there is no gas in Yosemite Valley.   What they

didn’t mention was that about 10 miles inside of the gate, at Crane Flats, there is a gas station selling unleaded regular for $2.019. This reminds me of something I learned the hard way….. on I-95 heading north in Florida there’s a billboard…. LAST CHANCE TO BUY GAS IN FLORIDA… Oh, I think to myself… better buy now. So I did. Then I crossed into Georgia and gas is much much cheaper…. oops. Hunter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "LAST GAS BEFORE YOSEMITE.  NO GAS IN YOSEMITE VALLEY!"  Their regular unleaded was $2.309.  Both statements were absolutely true – they were the last station before the Yosemite West entrance and there is no gas in Yosemite Valley.   What they didn’t mention was that about 10 miles inside of the gate, at Crane Flats, there is a gas station selling unleaded regular for $2.019. This reminds me of something I learned the hard way….. on I-95 heading north in Florida there’s a billboard…. LAST CHANCE TO BUY GAS IN FLORIDA… Oh, I think to myself… better buy now. So I did. Then I crossed into Georgia and gas is much much cheaper…. oops. Hunter

You forgot the "<g", right? Tell me you forgot the "<g". — bill Theory don’t mean squat if it don’t work.

Response:

You forgot the "<g", right? Tell me you forgot the "<g".

Nope, It was my first visit driving to Florida….. and driving back out of Florida.  I wasn’t pulling the trailer, I was in my 1996 Suburban.  I didn’t know about the price difference, I hadn’t bought gas in GA on the way down. /-: I thought it was funny that they had that LAST CHANCE TO BUY GAS IN FLORIDA sign….. it cost me, but it was funny. Hunter

Response:

You forgot the "<g", right? Tell me you forgot the "<g". Nope, It was my first visit driving to Florida….. and driving back out of Florida.  I wasn’t pulling the trailer, I was in my 1996 Suburban.  I didn’t know about the price difference, I hadn’t bought gas in GA on the way down. /-: I thought it was funny that they had that LAST CHANCE TO BUY GAS IN FLORIDA sign….. it cost me, but it was funny. Hunter

I have successfully restrained myself from commenting further. — bill Theory don’t mean squat if it don’t work.

Response:

FWIW, we drove through portions of NC, VA, WV, MD, PA, NY, CT, MA, and VT. (We didn’t hit NJ, RI, NH, or ME.) The highest prices we saw were in CT and NY.

I probably should have posted a link in my previous message. Here it is: http://www.taxfoundation.org/variousrates.html — Don Bradner www.arcatapet.net

Response:

FWIW, we drove through portions of NC, VA, WV, MD, PA, NY, CT, MA, and VT. (We didn’t hit NJ, RI, NH, or ME.) The highest prices we saw were in CT and NY. I probably should have posted a link in my previous message. Here it is: http://www.taxfoundation.org/variousrates.html

        I assure you those tax rates are *way* wrong- heck, we have a $.05/gallon *county* tax. The table at http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/gasol… (which is from a little more than a year ago) give the Florida state gas tax as $.136/gallon-($.259 for diesel)  with a footnote that various other taxes add an average of $.123/gallon.         That said- Florida has no income tax, so gas taxes are, IMHO, the best way to charge the user for the service. — Chris Bryant Bryant RV Services- http://www.bryantrv.com

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I saw a clever gimmick when we were in California in July.  We were staying just outside of the west entrance to Yosemite and there was a gas station there with a big sign – "LAST GAS BEFORE YOSEMITE.  NO GAS IN YOSEMITE VALLEY!"  Their regular unleaded was $2.309.  Both statements were absolutely true – they were the last station before the Yosemite West entrance and there is no gas in Yosemite Valley.   What they didn’t mention was that about 10 miles inside of the gate, at Crane Flats, there is a gas station selling unleaded regular for $2.019.On the other side, at Wawone, there is also a station selling for the same price – just nothing in the valley.

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Last year when prices took a big jump some here posted that they were going to have to cancel their vacations.  I remember pointing out that for the trip they planned the extra cost would be less than $20.  All they would have to do is pass up one of the T-Shirt counters.

Well, that works for folks who routinely hit the T-shirt counters. But what about those of us who already pass them up? Does this mean we can no longer afford to travel? <g WalMart might figure they can charge $10 a night for parking!

Can’t do it. If they did, they’d be in the campground business, which is not what their zoning and business licenses would permit (I’d bet). And the local campground owners would then have a legitimate complaint. Wal-Mart can give it away, but they can’t charge for it… GB in NC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last year when prices took a big jump some here posted that they were going to have to cancel their vacations.  I remember pointing out that for the trip they planned the extra cost would be less than $20.  All they would have to do is pass up one of the T-Shirt counters. Well, that works for folks who routinely hit the T-shirt counters. But what about those of us who already pass them up? Does this mean we can no longer afford to travel? <g WalMart might figure they can charge $10 a night for parking! Can’t do it. If they did, they’d be in the campground business, which is not what their zoning and business licenses would permit (I’d bet). And the local campground owners would then have a legitimate complaint. Wal-Mart can give it away, but they can’t charge for it… GB in NC

I’m sure most people do the same as we do.  If traveling gas is higher than expected, we just cut back in other areas, usually dining out.  Too bad for the restaurants but we allot a certain amount for traveling and we would rather cut back on dining out than miss some side trip.  We’ll remember the scenery long after we would have forgotten the meal. LZ

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last year when prices took a big jump some here posted that they were going to have to cancel their vacations.  I remember pointing out that for the trip they planned the extra cost would be less than $20.  All they would have to do is pass up one of the T-Shirt counters. Well, that works for folks who routinely hit the T-shirt counters. But what about those of us who already pass them up? Does this mean we can no longer afford to travel? <g WalMart might figure they can charge $10 a night for parking! Can’t do it. If they did, they’d be in the campground business, which is not what their zoning and business licenses would permit (I’d bet). And the local campground owners would then have a legitimate complaint. Wal-Mart can give it away, but they can’t charge for it… GB in NC

Wail, down here WM’s gone into the used car business – put up a building in the parking lot for a sales office, roped off a couple of lanes, and installed a heavy-duty turntable. Of course, if the CGs in the area are getting $10 for full hookups, WM might only charge $3 for dry camping and $7 for full … (c8

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Took a day trip up to the Detroit Lakes area of Minnesota yesterday to spend a day fishing with two of the kids and their families. They have a cabin rented for a week but we had some appointments so didn’t want to take the motorhome up for just a day or two. Gas prices vary quite a bit in only 50-60 miles.  The entire Detroit Lakes area has gas at 1.33 which is not bad for Labor Day weekend.  As you get closer to the Koch refinery at St. Paul, the price goes up instead of down.  Half way there you are up to 1.50 a gallon. You will never convince me that local cabals don’t huddle and set gas prices.  That hogwash about transportation costs just doesn’t fly.  If that were true, the gas stations near refineries would have half price gas. LZ Gas prices are set by one criteria: "What the market can bear."  I see this all the time where I live. The places closest to me always have matching prices which are some of the highest in the area. Price drop by as much as ten cents/gal on down the road, and can vary more greatly between the stations. I almost never fill up locally because of that. Yep, and everything else we buy.  How come we don’t get big posts about what hamburger, milk and other stuff costs all over the country?  I would guess one reason is because the stores don’t post their prices on big billboards outside the supermarkets.

Nope.  It’s because there are alternatives and therefore competition. If beef is high, you buy pork or chicken and soon beef comes down.  If you need gas to go to work, you jolly well pay the price.  I appreciate those who stop traveling when gas prices go up, as it takes the pressure off those who still want to travel. The part about what the market can bear is only partly true where food is concerned.  Many foods are seasonal in nature, so you eat your fill when they are cheap and pass them by when they are expensive.  Freezers allow you to take advantage of sales and stockpile food but it is not easy to stockpile gasoline and still have it with you on the road.   It’s true our gas is cheap compared to most other countries but we don’t tax gasoline to pay a good share of our social welfare costs as these countries do. LZ

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How come we don’t get big posts about what hamburger, milk and other stuff costs all over the country?  I would guess one reason is because the stores don’t post their prices on big billboards outside the supermarkets.

True, they don’t. But gas stations need to post only four prices to cover just about everybody. Anyway, to answer your question, assuming you were serious (and maybe you weren’t): RVers are probably more aware of fuel prices than food prices, because we have lifestyles that can be directly affected by fuel prices (over which we really have no control) — and while everybody has to eat, on the road and at home, there are food choices to suit every budget and taste. GB in NC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How come we don’t get big posts about what hamburger, milk and other stuff costs all over the country?  I would guess one reason is because the stores don’t post their prices on big billboards outside the supermarkets. True, they don’t. But gas stations need to post only four prices to cover just about everybody. Anyway, to answer your question, assuming you were serious (and maybe you weren’t): RVers are probably more aware of fuel prices than food prices, because we have lifestyles that can be directly affected by fuel prices (over which we really have no control) — and while everybody has to eat, on the road and at home, there are food choices to suit every budget and taste. GB in NC

Yeah, I do the same thing.  I buy where I get the best price.  Always have.  And it is not just RVers that complain about the prices.  I used to commute 35 miles to work.  Fuel price was pretty important to me then too.  But when you get down to it the extra cost for gasoline is not as much as one might expect.  Of course it depends on how much travel you do.  Assuming 20K miles per year and if you get 10 MPG = 2000 gallons. If you pay as much as 20 cents extra that is $400 a year.  A little over a dollar a day.   10K miles per year would probably be more reasonable = $200 a year extra.   Last year when prices took a big jump some here posted that they were going to have to cancel their vacations.  I remember pointing out that for the trip they planned the extra cost would be less than $20.  All they would have to do is pass up one of the T-Shirt counters. But as with any commodity you charge what you can get.  The like the hotels the RV parks would charge $100 a night if they thought they could get the customers.  Watch out!!  WalMart might figure they can charge $10 a night for parking!  I guess they figure the goodwill is worth that much.

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   I assure you those tax rates are *way* wrong- heck, we have a $.05/gallon *county* tax.

I see that, and that some counties are over 10 cents. It is clear that Florida is grossly represented in the table I pointed to, but many other states are right on or very close. It is probably impossible to compile a simple table that takes everything into account, since some states tax only on dollar amount (fuel-specific, not referring to the general sales taxes), and many add sales tax, including tax on the other taxes. The net effect, though, is that with only a couple of exceptions, most states have "final" rates in the 15-30 cent range, with the point being that it does not come close to explaining the 70-80 cent range typically found around the country. — Don Bradner www.arcatapet.net

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You will never convince me that local cabals don’t huddle and set gas prices. I believe you.  That is, I believe you’ll never be convinced to anything about which you’ve made up yer mind.  It is, of course, foolhardy to believe there are NO "local cabals", but what some folks perceive as conspiracy is more often snooping around to see what the market will bear. Not illegal OR immoral. Will KD3XR

In that case I need to hang a big sign on the side of a truck and park it near the freeway.  I could let people know that gas is 15 cents per gallon cheaper not too many miles down the road. Wonder how they would like THOSE apples?  Think gas prices would come down?  I bet they would. LZ

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Took a day trip up to the Detroit Lakes area of Minnesota yesterday to spend a day fishing with two of the kids and their families. They have a cabin rented for a week but we had some appointments so didn’t want to take the motorhome up for just a day or two. Gas prices vary quite a bit in only 50-60 miles.  The entire Detroit Lakes area has gas at 1.33 which is not bad for Labor Day weekend.  As you get closer to the Koch refinery at St. Paul, the price goes up instead of down.  Half way there you are up to 1.50 a gallon. You will never convince me that local cabals don’t huddle and set gas prices.  That hogwash about transportation costs just doesn’t fly.  If that were true, the gas stations near refineries would have half price gas. LZ Gas prices are set by one criteria: "What the market can bear."  I see this all the time where I live. The places closest to me always have matching prices which are some of the highest in the area. Price drop by as much as ten cents/gal on down the road, and can vary more greatly between the stations. I almost never fill up locally because of that.

Yep, and everything else we buy.  How come we don’t get big posts about what hamburger, milk and other stuff costs all over the country?  I would guess one reason is because the stores don’t post their prices on big billboards outside the supermarkets.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Took a day trip up to the Detroit Lakes area of Minnesota yesterday to spend a day fishing with two of the kids and their families. They have a cabin rented for a week but we had some appointments so didn’t want to take the motorhome up for just a day or two. Gas prices vary quite a bit in only 50-60 miles.  The entire Detroit Lakes area has gas at 1.33 which is not bad for Labor Day weekend.  As you get closer to the Koch refinery at St. Paul, the price goes up instead of down.  Half way there you are up to 1.50 a gallon. You will never convince me that local cabals don’t huddle and set gas prices.  That hogwash about transportation costs just doesn’t fly.  If that were true, the gas stations near refineries would have half price gas. LZ You might check on variance in local taxes. Some Metro areas include extra taxes for mass transit or anything the govmint decides.

Not applicable in this case.  I don’t know where Detroit Lakes is, but seem to remember lots of Indian Reservations in Manysoda.

The White Earth reservation is not far north of there but I doubt that is the reason.  Last week I took the same roads and bought gas for $1.30 only 45 miles up the road, at least a hundred miles from the nearest res.  We have one in East Texas selling gas with no taxes, so much cheaper.

We travel through many Indian reservations and I have never seen a significant difference.  A few cents at most. LZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MTV — "MTV" Reply needs modification to work, or in Outlook Express send New Norton AV for any virus.

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Prices over here vary by state, largely due to variations in the state gas taxes. That is commonly mentioned, but hard to work out in reality.

Okay, I bow to your greater wisdom. I haven’t bothered to check tax rates — I just watch the prices as I drive. You saw a variation of 26 cents per gallon. As of December 31, 2001, only two states had rates less than 4 cents per gallon, Florida and Alaska, neither on your route. North Carolina was 24.3 cents, and Vermont was 19 cent.

That’s interesting. Gas at stations throughout VT was a nickel to a dime more than at comparable stations that I know about in NC. And while of course I didn’t encounter GA or FL on this trip, GA always has *far* lower prices than FL. I would have assumed the tax to be lower in GA. (I know — that’s what I get for assuming.) I don’t know your route, but the highest I can find in states you might have passed through was Rhode Island at 28 cents (highest state of all). Connecticut was 25 cents per gallon. At the other end, the lowest would be New Jersey at 10.5 cents.

FWIW, we drove through portions of NC, VA, WV, MD, PA, NY, CT, MA, and VT. (We didn’t hit NJ, RI, NH, or ME.) The highest prices we saw were in CT and NY. We paid the most in CT and MA and the least in VA — but of course we didn’t buy gas in every state. We have a range of "up to" <g 500 miles, but I usually refuel at between 250 and 400. GB in NC

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Took a day trip up to the Detroit Lakes area of Minnesota yesterday to spend a day fishing with two of the kids and their families. They have a cabin rented for a week but we had some appointments so didn’t want to take the motorhome up for just a day or two. Gas prices vary quite a bit in only 50-60 miles.  The entire Detroit Lakes area has gas at 1.33 which is not bad for Labor Day weekend.  As you get closer to the Koch refinery at St. Paul, the price goes up instead of down.  Half way there you are up to 1.50 a gallon. You will never convince me that local cabals don’t huddle and set gas prices.  That hogwash about transportation costs just doesn’t fly.  If that were true, the gas stations near refineries would have half price gas. LZ

Gas prices are set by one criteria: "What the market can bear."  I see this all the time where I live. The places closest to me always have matching prices which are some of the highest in the area. Price drop by as much as ten cents/gal on down the road, and can vary more greatly between the stations. I almost never fill up locally because of that.

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We drove 2600+ miles in nine days and averaged 15+ mpg — using mostly secondary roads and driving more slowly than usual. We paid anywhere from $1.199 to $1.459. (Prices over here vary by state, largely due to variations in the state gas taxes.)

That is commonly mentioned, but hard to work out in reality. You saw a variation of 26 cents per gallon. As of December 31, 2001, only two states had rates less than 4 cents per gallon, Florida and Alaska, neither on your route. North Carolina was 24.3 cents, and Vermont was 19 cent. I don’t know your route, but the highest I can find in states you might have passed through was Rhode Island at 28 cents (highest state of all). Connecticut was 25 cents per gallon. At the other end, the lowest would be New Jersey at 10.5 cents. Out here where I am in California, the state gas tax is 18 cents. Prices locally vary between 1.839 and 1.859, down about 4 cents over the past 3 months. Reason given is the cost of barging it into Humboldt Bay is high. There are only two distributors (regardless of the brand of station you go to, you will find the same plain silver tankers filling them up). The argument falls apart, though, when you visit smaller communities 50 miles away serviced by the same tankers filled from the same barges, and the price will be lower. Presumably, as Will says, the demand/supply ratio is higher here in the population centers around the bay, so we pay more because they can get more. — Don Bradner www.arcatapet.net

Response:

Hi from a newbie,

Hi, Andy, and welcome. $1.50 a gallon, makes me wish I lived in America, prices over here in UK are

Question:

Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster… Well, thanks a freakin’ lot for putting that image in my head. Kevin

I don’t believe my dislike of George is any worse than others on ROFF.  Since I put him in my kill file the only posts I see are the ones repeated in another person’s posts.  I can live with that. Ernie

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Tripper I ment Ernie Schwiebert, not Harrison. Did Schwiebert die or something? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No no no! Nothing so trivial. Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster…

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Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster…

Well, thanks a freakin’ lot for putting that image in my head. Kevin

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Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours? I believe him!  Yes I do, I really think he means it this time!  I trust him to keep his word.   However, I also believe in the tooth fairy, honest and truthful politicians, and the future of the Yugo automobile (I have one, in pristine condition, just waiting for the upsurge in the collectable market)…

Oh, he’s gone, but of course he’ll be back. New ISPs are probably getting harder to find, though.. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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Why? is he dead? (Serious question) Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Oops, typo!  Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

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No no no! Nothing so trivial. Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster… /daytripper (…and he’s packing a Louisville Slugger.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why? is he dead? (Serious question) Dave I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Oops, typo!  Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

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"Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you

I’d trade in anything those guys had to say for one good posting from Mike Connor. Tight Lines,Shawn

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I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave

Oops, typo!  Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

Response:

Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours?

I believe him!  Yes I do, I really think he means it this time!  I trust him to keep his word.   However, I also believe in the tooth fairy, honest and truthful politicians, and the future of the Yugo automobile (I have one, in pristine condition, just waiting for the upsurge in the collectable market)… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

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bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet? He did say he’d be back from time to time for the free advertising. — Charlie…

yeah, but he won’t remember saying it. ww

Response:

"Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?  They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so.  Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?"

I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

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Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours? ND#1

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip Adios, Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie Forever wouldn’t be long enough. /daytripper (We ought to start a pool…)

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What was I thinking. I forgot to add that he’ll have a new ISP when he is posting again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If TSOTS can make it through the night without poosting he’ll be back on Tuesday the 14th. _____  Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little.  Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing. Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so.  This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

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bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet?

He did say he’d be back from time to time for the free advertising. — Charlie…

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I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip Adios, Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie

Forever wouldn’t be long enough. /daytripper (We ought to start a pool…)

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If TSOTS can make it through the night without poosting he’ll be back on Tuesday the 14th. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____  Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little.  Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing. Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so.  This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

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Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie

  I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly   because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher,   Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their   valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip   Adios,

Response:

______ It seems I have, after reviewing the hundreds of fly fishing articles donated by yours truly over the years, is enough to nearly write a well defined book on the subject. I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?  They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so.  Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?" Well, I’ve thought about that and it makes sense to me.  Why am I trying so hard to bring fly fishing to a darwinian gang of thugs who really have little interest in the group as a primary fly fishing discussion forum? Why indeed, am I here when all the others refuse to be involved with ROFF?  It seems, ROFF does not sit well with these professionals.   I will write my articles and I will probably make an effort to collect them all from dejanews from over the years, if possible.  What I think I should do is start a pure fly fishing "Book of Gink On Fly Fishing" Web page and list all the articles there. When I write a piece, I will simply just come here and post where everyone interested can key on the ‘Blue Thingie’ that will take them to the World of Gink. I like this idea a lot better than having to listen to all the diatribes from the local drunk to the babbling yuppies in white shirts and ugly ties. Outside that, this new plan goes into motion immediately.   The second nice thing we will be able to do again is renew my visits to http://www.gink.com/chat which IS MONITORED and where the smart asses aren’t tolerated when they demean others or swear or arrive just to troll and cause others to become nauseous of them.  Frankly, like it or not, the Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site around the ole camp fire is much more fun and friendlier and MUCH MORE INTERESTING than anything happening in ROFF.  Roff doesn’t even come close for user friendly compared to Gink’s Fire Side Chat Site.  Pure truth. Those who wish to be civil and visit are welcome starting for me sometime between 6 to 8 PM but going on into the night, time permitting.  Those of you who wish to have your own INSTANT ANSWERING Visiting Room can go there and be in total privacy.  Don’t forget, this chat site http://www.gink.com/chat allows any number of individuals to talk privately and instantly to each other is "Whisper Mode". Anyhow, for sake of good order, the only time I care anymore to visit Roff in the future is to notify fly fishermen of new articles and updates. Incidentally Wayne Harrison, you will see that should you care to visit me/us and some of your old friends at http://www.gink.com/chat  how much more caring and civil we are there compared to what you’ve been living with in ROFF.  The good ole boys, if the truth be known, are not in ROFF anymore.   After this post, I personally wish to invite all you new people a personal invitation to attend and join us at the Home Camp Fires Burning.  http://www.gink.com/chat  Just sign in and use your real name.  Ask any question about fly fishing or fishing in general and there will be someone here to help you. Welcome, one an all to a really top drawer, well moderated free speech without cussing chat room you will ever hope to find. See you around 7 PM this evening everyone. Adios, : ) — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

_____  Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little.  Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing.   Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so.  This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?

there’s just one flaw with that argument george…. those guys can write. but hell, don’t let me dissuade ya…. They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so.  Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?"

no, don’t give a rats ass. Well, I’ve thought about that and it makes sense to me.  Why am I trying so hard to bring fly fishing to a darwinian gang of thugs who really have little interest in the group as a primary fly fishing discussion forum?

yeah, why are you? Why indeed, am I here when all the others refuse to be involved with ROFF?  It seems, ROFF does not sit well with these professionals.

bwahahahahahahahahahahaha I will write my articles and I will probably make an effort to collect them all from dejanews from over the years, if possible.  What I think I should do is start a pure fly fishing "Book of Gink On Fly Fishing" Web page and list all the articles there. When I write a piece, I will simply just come here and post where everyone interested can key on the ‘Blue Thingie’ that will take them to the World of Gink.

make it a green thingy george…. green with envy. I like this idea a lot better than having to listen to all the diatribes from the local drunk to the babbling yuppies in white shirts and ugly ties.

we also like it better… see ya georgie-pooh… for the umpteenth time. Outside that, this new plan goes into motion immediately.

bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet? Adios,

see ya here soon…. your pal, waldo

Response:

Question:

I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site.

GREAT PICS!!  Looks like one terrific time! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site.

Um, just a warning to everyone out there… Steve’s pictorial has pictures of boobies in it. OK, I warned you. –Steve

Response:

I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site. Um, just a warning to everyone out there… Steve’s pictorial has pictures of boobies in it. OK, I warned you. –Steve

Correction. Just one boobie. Bruce caught it while trolling for trevally. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ? — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ?

Captain Cook set ashore there on Christmas Day. It’s part of the Republic of Kiribati. (The capital is Tarawa.) It’s not to be confused with the other Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

As with most English sounding place names, it was named by one of the first white guys to visit there. Captain William Mynors of the East India Ship Company vessel, the Royal Mary, named the island when he arrived on Christmas Day, 25th December, 1643.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ? — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

As with most English sounding place names, it was named by one of the first white guys to visit there.

In this case, those white guys may have been the first ever to visit. The island was uninhabited at the time. All they found were a few palm trees, a lot of turtles, and one shitload of birds. The island was deemed "uninhabitable", although the present-day native seem to be making a go of it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

[deleted] Captain Cook set ashore there on Christmas Day. It’s part of the Republic of Kiribati. (The capital is Tarawa.) It’s not to be confused with the other Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean.

Thanks. I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish. Your pal, — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

[deleted] Captain William Mynors of the East India Ship Company vessel, the Royal Mary, named the island when he arrived on Christmas Day, 25th December, 1643.

That must be the other one ? — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

[deleted] Captain William Mynors of the East India Ship Company vessel, the Royal Mary, named the island when he arrived on Christmas Day, 25th December, 1643. That must be the other one ?

I’m afraid Stan is referring to the discovery of the OTHER Christmas Island. The one in the Indian Ocean. Common mistake. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Amazing… that trevally almost of my chair. Is that a digitally enhanced fish, or is it really _that_ big? Herman I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Amazing… that trevally almost of my chair. Is that a digitally enhanced fish, or is it really _that_ big? Herman

It’s really that big. I got the picture from Bill Kiene. The fisherman is Kevin Thompson of the Sage Rod Company . — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Make that knocked me out of my chair. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amazing… that trevally almost of my chair. Is that a digitally enhanced fish, or is it really _that_ big? Herman I’ve finally put up some photos of Christmas Island on my web site. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam) —         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish.

Personally I prefer to bone fish with a fillet knife, but to each his own. Pat K

Response:

Greetings: I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish.

Personally I prefer to bone fish with a fillet knife, but to each his own.

Pat K

Just curious:   Do people _eat_ bone fish?  I am going to have an opportunity to fish for them a bit, for the first time, next January.  (I’ll be asking for help and advise later as the time gets closer, folks  :-)) Cheers,  -Mark

Response:

I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish. Personally I prefer to bone fish with a fillet knife, but to each his own.

Just to be certain…you must know that I am usually fairly pedantic in my word usage and that the original sentence appeared as I intended. To wit: To "bone" something does not necessarily imply the removal of internal skeletal matter though that may be an undesired side affect of a really violent ‘boning’.  It does, however, imply the use of certain cylindrical erectile tissues in the act (as the verb ‘bone’).  The mimicked sheaths of the noun are often displayed proudly by the male of certain tribal customs. (Yes, I fear that I may have awoke the sleeping mountie with that last bit of imagery) Your pal, — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

Just curious: Do people _eat_ bone fish?  I am going to have an opportunity to fish for them a bit, for the first time, next January.  (I’ll be asking for help and advise later as the time gets closer, folks  :-))

Yes, they do, but not on Christmas Island. Because bonefish often travel in schools along the shore they’re very easy to net, much to the detriment of sportfishing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Yep, wrong island.  I didn’t know there were two – I got the Australian version in the Indian Ocean.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] Captain William Mynors of the East India Ship Company vessel, the Royal Mary, named the island when he arrived on Christmas Day, 25th December, 1643. That must be the other one ?

Response:

Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ? Captain Cook set ashore there on Christmas Day. It’s part of the Republic of Kiribati. (The capital is Tarawa.) It’s not to be confused with the other Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean.

Is this the same Christmas Island where the millions of red land crabs migrate to the ocean to lay eggs every year?  I saw a Discovery Channel special on that and it looked like quite an impressive thing to see. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

Nice. Why do they call it Christmas Island ? Captain Cook set ashore there on Christmas Day. It’s part of the Republic of Kiribati. (The capital is Tarawa.) It’s not to be confused with the other Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean. Is this the same Christmas Island where the millions of red land crabs migrate to the ocean to lay eggs every year?  I saw a Discovery Channel special on that and it looked like quite an impressive thing to see.

Nope, that’s the other one. They have ample numbers of land crabs, though. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

hmmm…then, i assume the "sleeping mountie" is a "bone" technique? jeff (in full monty) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wonder if he had a Sage 890RPL under the tree so that he could bone fish. Personally I prefer to bone fish with a fillet knife, but to each his own. Just to be certain…you must know that I am usually fairly pedantic in my word usage and that the original sentence appeared as I intended. To wit: To "bone" something does not necessarily imply the removal of internal skeletal matter though that may be an undesired side affect of a really violent ‘boning’.  It does, however, imply the use of certain cylindrical erectile tissues in the act (as the verb ‘bone’).  The mimicked sheaths of the noun are often displayed proudly by the male of certain tribal customs. (Yes, I fear that I may have awoke the sleeping mountie with that last bit of imagery) Your pal, — TW – Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the Creel" "A cash flow runs through it" "It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout"

Response:

Yep, wrong island.  I didn’t know there were two – I got the Australian version in the Indian Ocean.

I suspect its that old International Date Line thing.  Probably the same island; just depends whether you’re looking at it from yesterday or tomorrow, compounded by the fact that when viewed from Australia the whole damn thing would be upside down and thus rendered unrecognizable anyway.  Moreover, the English would throw in an extra u somewhere in the middle or a superfluous e at the end, merely adding to the confusion.  The French on the other hand, would further muddy the issue by giving it an entirely unpronounceable spelling and then proceed to drown it in butter and garlic before eating it and rendering the whole argument moot.  Hope this helps.

Response:

Congratulation, I know that a such trevally, is really hard to bring back on a fly rod. You where fishing 12? I’m really, really happy for you.

I didn’t catch that monster, Phillipe. The angler is Kevin Thompson of Sage Rod Company. If I posted a photo of the only trevally I caught you’d die laughing. BTW, is that photo of the blond guy with the big trevally on your website a photo of you? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I didn’t catch that monster, Phillipe.

Next time, next time… BTW, is that photo of the blond guy with the big trevally on your website a photo of you?

Yep, it’s me, but don’t say to my hairdresser that I’m fishing when I need to let him make me a decent look. (I preffer the picture with the Spanish Mackerel). A bientot, Philippe Pacific Angling on Line http://fishing.ifrance.com — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ (Reply-to set to something bogus to avoid spam)

* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Question:

Got to go out for a few hours today. It was notable in the fact that of three folks fishing that little puddle of water I was the only one catching. Why? Well could it be due to the fact that I was FLY FISHING?!?! Heh.

(great trip report snipped) Michael – this confirms my experience that some interesting fishing can be found in the oddest places – we just need to be alert to the opportunity. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Michael – this confirms my experience that some interesting fishing can be found in the oddest places – we just need to be alert to the opportunity. Mark Faulkner

Too true! I know this one spot that looks alright and it right off of route 42 after the Walt Whitman Bridge just before the turn off for Deptford Mall. Right under one of the over passes. I think I am gonna try it this summer! — Michael Era

Question:

Are there any good fly shops in Montreal? I want to take advantage of the

Response:

Last I checked (I live up the road in Ottawa), there were two fly shops in downtown Montreal on (I think McGill Street).  One of them is called Boutique Salmo Nature.  Another option is to call up WWW.WWDOAK.COM.  They are in New Brunswick, but they do a lot of mail order business with American sports.  Also, they have small town overhead, so they might be cheaper than a downtown Montreal shop. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any good fly shops in Montreal? I want to take advantage of

Response:

Are there any good fly shops in Montreal? I want to take advantage of the

Try Peter Farago at Boutique Classique Angler, 414 McGill St. Montreal (514) 878-3474.  Salmo Nature, the Orvis shop, is on McGill also, just a couple of blocks down from Classique.  But I don’t have their business card for the details. Peter Email address hacked. Remove -delete-this- to email a reply.

Response:

There are a few good fly shps in Montreal, but if your interrested you could contact the Montreal Fly Fish Association (Moucheurs Montreal M

Question:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty.

The st. Croix Legend is a great deal. BTW it also has a lifetime unconditional warrenty.

Response:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans        |

Response:

8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.

Dear Dan; The St. Croix may be a slightly faster action rod.  My experience ends with the 6/7 wts., but the principle may carry over to the higher weights.  They are both the same modulous graphite, but the cost of the St. Croix includes a pretty decent rod tube.  Flip a coin.  Better yet, cast ‘em both.  Even better yet, buy a Versitex! Sincerely; Jason Beary

Response:

I’ve got a St Croix Legend (5wt, 9ft) All I can say is that it gets the job done. It’s fine, I works, I’ve got no complaints, but I know, in my heart of hearts, that I ain’t driving a Caddy. True, the warrenty is good and the fly tube is great and gbest of all, the price is excellent. I will be upgrading tho, when my big ship comes in Damn, faint praise! S. "The World is full of shipping clerks who read the Harvard Classics." –Bukowski, American writer, poet S. Duda Seattle, WA

Response:

Dan, I used to fish with a St. Croix and now I fish with a Redington.  I own a Redington 9 ft., 5wt.  My St. Croix is a 8.5 ft., 5/6 wt.  I like my Redington a lot better.  It is a little faster, and the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty has come in handy.  I work at Jacklin’s Fly Shop in West Yellowstone and My Redington worked fine out there last summer.                               Jamie. Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans  |

– Jamie Farrell Interests:   -fly fishing   -fly tying   -camping   -hiking

Response:

Question:

I am spending a week in the Jackson Tenn. area.  Anyone know of any good flyfishing to be had within an hours drive? Thanks for your reply.   Dee

Response:

I don’t really know of anything near Jackson, however if you are willing to drive about 6 hours you can fish some of the finest fly fishing waters in the world in NorthEast Tennessee.   The tailwaters of the S. Holston has been rated in the top ten trout streams in the nation, and if you are looking for the mountain stream experience the Doe Creek which runs through Roan Mountain State Park is great.  Also Laurel Fork, etc.  There are also some great spots in the Smoky’s, but I have never fished them. If you want to come up here, I can guide you or I can recommend a guide. Joe Byrd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am spending a week in the Jackson Tenn. area.  Anyone know of any good flyfishing to be had within an hours drive? Thanks for your reply.   Dee

Response:

You are closer to the White River area of Arkansas than East Tenessee. Call Gaston’s near Mountain Home Ark. or Ozark Anglers in Heber Springs, Ark.If you want to fish for small mouth try Buffalo River near Flatwoods Tn. Its about 1 hour southeast of Jackson. Try and find a book, Home Waters, written by the Mid -South Flyfishers of Memphis, Tn. It gives you good advice about the Ark. area and also about Buffalo River in Tn. Best wishes. Jack.

Response:

One hour east of Nashville is the Caney Fork River.  It has fished excellent this year.  The Caney is a tailwater.  One to two hours south of Nashville are the Elk and the Duck rivers.  They are both excellent tailwaters.  Closer to you is the Little Buffallo River.  It has a section of trout water, but I have not fished it.  Lots of smallmouth and largemouth water all over middle Tennessee.   Some of the colder smallmouth streams are stocked with trout in the spring.  Maybe some summer survivors. Maybe this will help. If you decide on a tailwater in Tennessee, please-please, call the TVA generation schedule for that particular dam.  1-800-238-2264 and follow their instructions.  The generation schedules have been pretty good for the three tailwaters I listed.  Sometimes. Michael

Response:

Question:

Will be going to the Eugene area in mid-May to fish with my father-in-law.  Does anyone know of some convenient locations to trout fish?  I would really appreciate some help.  Both spin and fly.

Response:

Will be going to the Eugene area in mid-May to fish with my father-in-law. Does anyone know of some convenient locations to trout fish?  I would really appreciate some help.  Both spin and fly.

I would call Bob Guard at the Caddis Fly Shop in Eugene for some good info. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Will also be in Eugene fishing May 17-25. My friend is acting as our guide. He says the McKenzie has awesome caddis hatches this time of year. Will also be going to the Motolius River. He also recommended the Caddis Fly Shop. Good Luck and tight lines

Response:

Will be going to the Eugene area in mid-May to fish with my father-in-law.  Does anyone know of some convenient locations to trout fish?  I would really appreciate some help.  Both spin and fly.

Fall creek is a small creek just outside of Eugene that has trout. If you have access to a boat the lower part of the McKenzie is great, if not just drive up hwy 126 along the river. Above Leaburg dam the water is small enough to wade and fish and they have recently stocked it so there will definately be some dumb easy to catch fish along with the natives.   Basicly just about any stream you see will have trout in it. Get a synopsis from a fishing shop if you don’t have one because some of the water has special restrictions, like no bait, barbless, fly fishing only and release of non-hatchery fish (can you believe it T-Bone, its the law and there are some huge wild redsides in the lower McKenzie because of it) Have fun and let us know how it went. Martin Allen

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Temple University, Academic Computer Services    Misha,    Personally, I would bag the idea of using clip swivels at all.  From    personal experience, they tend to sink dry flys and they also are    difficult to get your fly onto (which if you’re using a dry will almost    certainly cause you to crush the hackles, tail, etc.). How ’bout pre-tying on the tippet, with a loop at the end, for a loop-to-loop -type of connection? — Matt Meola NRA Life, Libertarian, Militiaman Gun control means using two hands. Live free or die!

Matt, A loop-to-loop connection between the tippet and the next section of the leader might not allow the fly to turn over as easily (compared with, say a surgeons or barrel knot).  Also, it would seem to be a little too bulky for my taste, which could possibly put down some fish. Also, I have my doubts concerning the practicality of carrying around a hundred or so flys with tippets already attached (I’m implying that this was what you were getting at previously.  I apologize in advance if I misinterpreted your posting.). Best Regards, Jim Davis Philadelphia, PA Temple University

Response:

It gets rather tiring when I have to switch Flies and have to continue retying different Flies onto my line.. I use #14 and was wondering are their any types of Clip Swiviles out there for quick Fly changing..

Clips or swivels are too heavy and are not made in sizes small enough for the flies needed sometimes by trout. The simplest solution is to learn the turle knot, which is easy (can almost be tied blindfold or at night) and does not mash hackles. —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Temple University, Academic Computer Services    Misha,    Personally, I would bag the idea of using clip swivels at all.  From    personal experience, they tend to sink dry flys and they also are    difficult to get your fly onto (which if you’re using a dry will almost    certainly cause you to crush the hackles, tail, etc.). How ’bout pre-tying on the tippet, with a loop at the end, for a loop-to-loop -type of connection? — Matt Meola NRA Life, Libertarian, Militiaman Gun control means using two hands. Live free or die!

Response:

It gets rather tiring when I have to switch Flies and have to continue retying different Flies onto my line.. I use #14 and was wondering are their any types of Clip Swiviles out there for quick Fly changing.. Misha

Response:

It gets rather tiring when I have to switch Flies and have to continue retying different Flies onto my line.. I use #14 and was wondering are their any types of Clip Swiviles out there for quick Fly changing.. Misha

Misha, Personally, I would bag the idea of using clip swivels at all.  From personal experience, they tend to sink dry flys and they also are difficult to get your fly onto (which if you’re using a dry will almost certainly cause you to crush the hackles, tail, etc.). Best Regards, Jim Davis Philadelphia, PA Temple University

Response:

Question:

Where’s Fisherman’s Paradise? Sorry, Fisherman’s Paradise is a famous stretch of Spring Creek north of State College, PA.  The state, which owns this part of the stream, manages it as a special-regulations area — catch and release/no wading. The wild fish population is very dense, no doubt due to the special regulations.  Interestingly, the special regulations are the result of some sort of chemical contamination in this part of the stream, which makes the fish unsafe to eat, but apparently does little in the way of impacting on their reproduction.

The chemical contamination was mirex and a second which I can’t remember now. The DER does testing periodically and found that the last test proved the fish would now be safe for consumption.  When this was announced the two camps (C&R , C&K) both had their say.  Obviously only one camp was going to be happy. DER decision was to keep the special regs in place since they had helped to enhance the number and quality of the fish. We still experience new contami nation rather frequently.  Factories in the area (watershed) would rather pay the fine (usually 10K) for their mess than to spend the money to avoid future spills and contamination. Bug hatches had made a comeback on the stream but many of the more fragile spec ies are gone forever.  If you get the chance, walk through the Frost Entomologi cal Museum on the Penn State campus to see what once lived on the stream. Rather sad to see what we do to the environment.  The phrase: we all live downstream rings true!!!                                  Scott Maitland

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Where’s Fisherman’s Paradise?

Sorry, Fisherman’s Paradise is a famous stretch of Spring Creek north of State College, PA.  The state, which owns this part of the stream, manages it as a special-regulations area — catch and release/no wading.  The wild fish population is very dense, no doubt due to the special regulations.  Interestingly, the special regulations are the result of some sort of chemical contamination in this part of the stream, which makes the fish unsafe to eat, but apparently does little in the way of impacting on their reproduction. andy

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I finally made it up to Fisherman’s Paradise this past weekend.  Driving down the road that leads to the park, I tried not to get my hopes up to high.  I was expecting tons of people, park officials, cars, noise, etc.  In other words, everything that a trout person loathes.  Much to my utter amazement,  Fisherman’s Paradise turned out to be everything the books say it is — clean, serene, and uncrowded.  And to top it all off, there’s even fish there — big, beautiful, wild browns.  However, these fish have no doubt seen it all.  I fished for hours (terrestrials, nymphs, etc.) trying to convince just one of these monsters to nip at my fly — nothing doing.  They just sorta looked at my little black ant, bored stiff.  Frustrating yes, but what great fun!!  Andy sez check it out!!

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I finally made it up to Fisherman’s Paradise this past weekend.

Where’s Fisherman’s Paradise?

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Parham) says: I finally made it up to Fisherman’s Paradise this past weekend. Where’s Fisherman’s Paradise?

Fisherman’s Paradise is in Central PA near State College (home of Penn State Un iversity).  It was the first flyfishing only, special regs stream in the USA. Don’t remember the exact year this was developed but it’s been around a long time.  Fly only, C&R, barbless hooks, leader length limits, no wading…. It’s not stocked but is well known for number of fish per mile.  ALso well know n for having difficult fish that have seen it all (or close to it)!!!  There are some HUGE browns swimming here but they are stubborn. More info can be found by looking it up in flyfishing books about the NE or PA if not under the Paradise name look up Spring Creek in the Central area of PA (sometimes listed as Northcentral or Southcentral depending upon the book).                                Scott Maitland (it’s my "home stream")

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