Question:

   wtf is this?  talking in tongues?  tell your ol buddy about "the slip strike", would you? yfitons wayno (never afraid to show one’’s ignorance)

Give me a sec. gotta pull up a cushion and pour a wee dram . . . there OK, you’re stripping in a streamer and BAM, a big hit.  The tendency will be to do the South Sauty heave and yank the fly about five or ten feet away from the fish.  Instead, keep the rod tip low and just give a sharp, short yank on the line.  If you don’t feel the fish, let everything go, count to three then put in a few short strips.  Odds are, he’ll turn and take it as soon as you start to strip a second time.  The fish isn’t aiming to swallow the fly on the first hit – it’s a killing strike, where he’ll turn and then leisurely swallow the dead minnow head first.  Your second set of strips triggers the "it’s not dead and it’s escaping" response – the fly is nailed for sure on the second hit.  Executed properly, I seldom fail to get a solid hookup on the second strike. I lost two nice browns at the Blue Rock Hole – both were probably lightly hooked on the original strike as I had forgotten my own advice and did the old, "let’s fling it in the bush" strike.  If these fish had executed a stun strike, I would’ve hooked them on the outside of the mouth and lost them on the turn.  A slip strike usually doesn’t result in such a hookup – it’s slower, lighter, and moves the fly only a few inches.  If the fly is on the outside of the fish’s mouth, the odds of an external hookup are very low.  The fish isn’t spooked by the strike, rather, it’s aggression is probably heightened by the "struggles" of its "prey." Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

OK, you’re stripping in a streamer and BAM, a big hit.  The tendency will be to do the South Sauty heave and yank the fly about five or ten feet away from the fish.  Instead, keep the rod tip low and just give a sharp, short yank on the line.  If you don’t feel the fish, let everything go, count to three then put in a few short strips.  Odds are, he’ll turn and take it as soon as you start to strip a second time.  The fish isn’t aiming to swallow the fly on the first hit – it’s a killing strike, where he’ll turn and then leisurely swallow the dead minnow head first.

        good lord.  this requires far too much patience than i have to give. yfitons wayno  (somebody hand me that royal wulff…)

Response:

[a high and dirty snip] About high water and fish behaviour, my favourite high water story comes from one of the local fly shop owners.  When the Grand blew out a few years ago, he went up to check it out and found a flooded intersection with trout rising in the middle of it. I got to watch Peter use one of his streamer techniques for a very short time at the Penn’s Clave (wish that conditions had been a bit better so I could have watched some more. I also missed seeing him work a spey rod) Anyway, my half assed imitation of this technique has been working reasonably well. (Peter, what sink rate line were you using at the Blue Rock Hole? I’m fishing similar depth and current flows and don’t feel I’m getting down deep enough.) However, I continue to get nothing but short strikes on Peter’s short shanked streamers. When I put on a standard length streamer, I’m hooking a decent percentage of the fish.

I was using a type 6 line.  When I make the cross-current cast, I follow the line with the rod tip as far as I can to keep tension off the line.  During that portion of the drift, the line has the opportunity to sink.  In really fast water, I’ll add an upstream mend as the line hits the water.  Even a type 6 won’t get down if you have tension on the line right away. About the flies, it could be differences in the way the fish hit the fly.  Grand River browns hit the head of the fly to stun it.  I was getting a lot brief hookups and some foul hookups on the opposite side of the fish’s face with long shanked hooks.   However, if you’re getting hookups in the front of the lower jaw, the fish are tail chasing the prey.  If you’re getting hookups but your landing rate is poor, then you’re in the same situation as me.  When you feel a strike on a short shank fly, strip-strike, don’t lift the rod tip.  If you don’t feel the fish after, let everything go so the fly flows drag free then tighten up and put in a couple of strips.  Odds are you’ll get a hookup on the second strike.   Flows are even higher today, still reasonable visibility so? Willi

Keep at it, sounds like you’re doing great as is. BTW, keep up the TRs as, thanks to my move and the kids, I probably won’t hit the water again till mid-late August.  Gotta live vicariously. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

About the flies, it could be differences in the way the fish hit the fly.  Grand River browns hit the head of the fly to stun it.  I was getting a lot brief hookups and some foul hookups on the opposite side of the fish’s face with long shanked hooks.   However, if you’re getting hookups in the front of the lower jaw, the fish are tail chasing the prey.  If you’re getting hookups but your landing rate is poor, then you’re in the same situation as me.  When you feel a strike on a short shank fly, strip-strike, don’t lift the rod tip.  If you don’t feel the fish after, let everything go so the fly flows drag free then tighten up and put in a couple of strips.  Odds are you’ll get a hookup on the second strike.

I was looking at some of the flies you traded me before doing some tying. I keep them as samples and tie from them. I was comparing the short shanked ones you tied to the long shanked ones. The short shanked ones are VERY short and the long shanked ones are VERY long, in relationship to the length of the wing. I had tied some up on hooks with shanks midway between the two. These worked well for me in terms of hookups. I will try the short shanked ones some more as I really like the way they look and the action they have in the water. However, I’m not sure if I can get used to doing a slip strike. Too many years doing things another way. Willi

Response:

if I can get used to doing a slip strike. Too many years doing things another way.

Boy do I know what you are talking about! I have been trying to get used to using a slip strike off and on for about 10 years now with only occasional success. I most often just raise the rod tip when fishing for trout or bluegills and try to use the slip strike for bass.The problem is that I catch a hell of a lot more trout and bluegill than I do bass and I love to see those small fish put a bend in the rod. Old habits are sure hard to break! Big Dale

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at some of the flies you traded me before doing some tying. I keep them as samples and tie from them. I was comparing the short shanked ones you tied to the long shanked ones. The short shanked ones are VERY short and the long shanked ones are VERY long, in relationship to the length of the wing. I had tied some up on hooks with shanks midway between the two. These worked well for me in terms of hookups. I will try the short shanked ones some more as I really like the way they look and the action they have in the water. However, I’m not sure if I can get used to doing a slip strike. Too many years doing things another way. Willi

I also use flies with the same proportions as you described – a mid wing shank.  The nice brown hooked at Blue Rock Hole, was on a middie. They are a good compromise if the short shank flies prove to be too short.  You’re right though, the short shank flies do have better action.   The slip-stirke is fun though as you get two whacking great strikes from the fish, for the price of one.  The first time it works for you, it is magical.  The second strike seems somehow unreal after having missed the original hookup.  The fish is suddenly, THERE! The long shanked hooks are mainly used for very large species, chinook, steelhead, pike, bass, but they can work for larger resident trout.  These fish tend to engulf a fly of that size and the longer shank will usually place the tippet outside of the fish’s mouth, thereby protecting it.  I’ve kept a Rangley hook fly (rainbow smelt 1/0 8X) that was bent into a pretzel by a big buck chinook. BTW, the weamer idea seems to be working real well.  I had only one small, brown trout weamer at Penns that I lost on a rock while fooling around with the spey rod.  Moments earlier, it had hooked a very nice fish (lost, of course.)  I’ve also hooked a number of steelies with them and there’s no reason not to believe that residents won’t take a shine to them either. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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The slip-stirke is fun though as you get two whacking great strikes from the fish, for the price of one.  The first time it works for you, it is magical.  The second strike seems somehow unreal after having missed the original hookup.  The fish is suddenly, THERE!

        wtf is this?  talking in tongues?  tell your ol buddy about "the slip strike", would you? yfitons wayno (never afraid to show one’’s ignorance)

Response:

Although it is the season of runoff with it’s very high muddy water, this season it has been runoff – runon. With the irrigation demands and the low snowpack, even during the highest flows, there has been enough clarity to catch fish. Water levels have been fluctuating from day to day and within a day, from somewhat high water to very high water. Generally, we have at least a month of unfishable water. This year although the high water makes for tough fishing, the river is fishable. In fact, the fishing has been pretty decent. The catching has been as varied as the flows. Some days, I’ll catch alot of small fish with nothing sizable. Other days, all the fish are good sized. One day I’ll throw streamers on a sinking line, the next day dries skittered across the surface and what’s working doesn’t seem to correlate with the flows. The best dry fly day I’ve had was during the highest flows. There has been a large yellow Mayfly coming off that I’ve never seen before probably because it usually comes off during unfishable runoff. I’ve been fishing an oversized yellow dry with a large florescent (for visibility) yellow soft hackle as a dropper. This has brought up the biggest fish I’ve been taking, bigger even than on streamers. I’ve been fishing it by casting to the edges of the fast water, letting it drift downstream and then dragging the pair across the current back to me with the dry bouncing on the surface. Virtually all of the fish have taken the dragging flies. Most have taken the soft hackle but I’ve gotten a number of savage takes on the dry. I usually miss the hookup but several of them took the emerger on the next few casts. What has been surprising to me is that the fish are coming up through several feet of strong current and heavily stained water for the flies. I think the motion may be an aid to them in seeing the flies. I got to watch Peter use one of his streamer techniques for a very short time at the Penn’s Clave (wish that conditions had been a bit better so I could have watched some more. I also missed seeing him work a spey rod) Anyway, my half assed imitation of this technique has been working reasonably well. (Peter, what sink rate line were you using at the Blue Rock Hole? I’m fishing similar depth and current flows and don’t feel I’m getting down deep enough.) However, I continue to get nothing but short strikes on Peter’s short shanked streamers. When I put on a standard length streamer, I’m hooking a decent percentage of the fish. Flows are even higher today, still reasonable visibility so? Willi

Response:

Question:

Somebody asked this question a little while ago.  I offer this story in response. Greg and I took on the Whirlpool this morning.  The Whirlpool won – again.  But the interesting bit – I was using a 300 grain Rio density compensated sinktip with a 24′ head.  It was too light for the 11 wt. Daiwa but it was all I had available.  I had lost a few flies on the bottom.  I had already learned that the 15′ 6" rod had enough backbone to snap off 13lb. test tippet as I had already lost a few flies to the bottom.  I snagged up again. I flexed the rod – nothing broke free.  So I grabbed hold on the line and started backing up, and up, and up.  Must have gone 15′ and still nothing had broken off.  I had figured I must be moving a log but no, it was the stretch in the line for when it slipped through my fingers, the recoil spun the reel so fast, I got a hell of a rap on the knuckles.  So I grabbed the spool and began backing up again.  I’m using a Marquis Salmon No. 3 and I have over 400 yards of backing on it.  I’m clamped down on the spool palming rim – it’s not turning – but the 400+ yards of backing plus fly line spun on the arbour of the spool!!!  So I clamp down on spool and line and finally cleanly broke off about four foot of the tip.  Obviously I had trapped the line under a rock. I don’t think we have any worries about a fish breaking our fly lines unless one chooses to bite through it. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Greg and I took on the Whirlpool this morning.  The Whirlpool won – again. … You know, Peter, I really don’t think that you have to worry about too many people fishing at the Whirlpool. We’ve had this discussion before: people aren’t going to buy this story forever.  It might be a good idea to give an honest trip report next time we go down there.

Shhhh – don’t blow it. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I don’t think we have any worries about a fish breaking our fly lines unless one chooses to bite through it.

I tied some old fly line to a tree one day and pulled.  I couldn’t believe how much stretch was in it.

Response:

Somebody asked this question a little while ago.  I offer this story in response. Greg and I took on the Whirlpool this morning.  The Whirlpool won – again.  But the interesting bit – I was using a 300 grain Rio density compensated sinktip with a 24′ head.  It was too light for the 11 wt. Daiwa but it was all I had available.  I had lost a few flies on the bottom.  I had already learned that the 15′ 6" rod had enough backbone to snap off 13lb. test tippet as I had already lost a few flies to the bottom.  I snagged up again.

ummm, just what are you fishing for in there, Peter?  Marlin?  that’s some heavy duty tackle for brook trout boy here. heehee. Eugene K.

Response:

Hi All, I think that standard fresh water floating fly lines have a braided nylon core. Some tropical salt water lines and some real fast sinking lines have other types of cores. I think that the lines up to a #7 are built on a 20# core.  I think the lines from #8 and larger built on a 30# core. Why I think this is that I can pull 20# Dacron baking into the core of most floating fly lines with a needle for making a needle nail knot connection but I can only pull 30# into the core of a #8 and larger floating fly line to make a needle nail knot connection. Fly lines core strength gets weaker with age just like any other fishing line. – Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somebody asked this question a little while ago.  I offer this story in response. Greg and I took on the Whirlpool this morning.  The Whirlpool won – again.  But the interesting bit – I was using a 300 grain Rio density compensated sinktip with a 24′ head.  It was too light for the 11 wt. Daiwa but it was all I had available.  I had lost a few flies on the bottom.  I had already learned that the 15′ 6" rod had enough backbone to snap off 13lb. test tippet as I had already lost a few flies to the bottom.  I snagged up again. I flexed the rod – nothing broke free.  So I grabbed hold on the line and started backing up, and up, and up.  Must have gone 15′ and still nothing had broken off.  I had figured I must be moving a log but no, it was the stretch in the line for when it slipped through my fingers, the recoil spun the reel so fast, I got a hell of a rap on the knuckles.  So I grabbed the spool and began backing up again.  I’m using a Marquis Salmon No. 3 and I have over 400 yards of backing on it.  I’m clamped down on the spool palming rim – it’s not turning – but the 400+ yards of backing plus fly line spun on the arbour of the spool!!!  So I clamp down on spool and line and finally cleanly broke off about four foot of the tip.  Obviously I had trapped the line under a rock. I don’t think we have any worries about a fish breaking our fly lines unless one chooses to bite through it. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

ummm, just what are you fishing for in there, Peter?  Marlin?  that’s some heavy duty tackle for brook trout boy here. heehee. Eugene K.

MONSTER brook trout, I’ll have you know. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I have broke it out of water  with a single jerk of the hand…..however, that is ’shock loading’ and entirely different from it’s breaking strength, which for ropes and such is much greater than the ’shock load.’ john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somebody asked this question a little while ago.  I offer this story in response. Greg and I took on the Whirlpool this morning.  The Whirlpool won – again.  But the interesting bit – I was using a 300 grain Rio density compensated sinktip with a 24′ head.  It was too light for the 11 wt. Daiwa but it was all I had available.  I had lost a few flies on the bottom.  I had already learned that the 15′ 6" rod had enough backbone to snap off 13lb. test tippet as I had already lost a few flies to the bottom.  I snagged up again. I flexed the rod – nothing broke free.  So I grabbed hold on the line and started backing up, and up, and up.  Must have gone 15′ and still nothing had broken off.  I had figured I must be moving a log but no, it was the stretch in the line for when it slipped through my fingers, the recoil spun the reel so fast, I got a hell of a rap on the knuckles.  So I grabbed the spool and began backing up again.  I’m using a Marquis Salmon No. 3 and I have over 400 yards of backing on it.  I’m clamped down on the spool palming rim – it’s not turning – but the 400+ yards of backing plus fly line spun on the arbour of the spool!!!  So I clamp down on spool and line and finally cleanly broke off about four foot of the tip.  Obviously I had trapped the line under a rock. I don’t think we have any worries about a fish breaking our fly lines unless one chooses to bite through it. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Fly lines core strength gets weaker with age just like any other fishing line.

Not unlike fly fishermen. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Question:

Maybe people from this area (Baltimore- Washington Corridor) could hook up for lunch, scope out some things together or just appreciate how plain stupid we probably look to one another.  Not that there’s really anything wrong with being ugly, I feel proud  that I am actually very good at practicing and exhibiting ugliness, it doesn’t take a lot of work ya know. Hell, if we were to hook up as a small clave of complete mullethead wearing, scudge head looking, biscuit head toting boneheads we just might be able to take over the place and buy some fine tackle.  I am sure the hucksters would gladly hook-up a collective group of biscuit head Roffians with good prices and great deals,  just to see us move away from their booth in a hurry. Having never visited the show before I have every intention of dragging this big ass unsightly looking numbnut over to the extravaganza in hope of meeting some other butt ugly Roffian brothers and see some way cool stuff and demos.  Who knows, even a non repugnant ugster like myself could grab some free FF lessons and/or instructions. Anybody interested at meeting one another at the show please post to the group or e-mail me, maybe someone who have been there before could indicate a good place to meet, at least for an introduction.  Keep in mind the uglier the better, attractive people need not apply. On the more serious side, if anybody is interest in car pooling from Columbia, MD, please give me a shout.  I’ll be glad to drive as long as my Jeep is out of the shop. Your One and Only Supreme Cheesehead. Tony Norton

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Tony;    Got a bunch of us meeting at the front desk at noon on Saturday. Just look for the naked guys wearing pink or red carnations swilling Glen Livet from the bottle (anti-freeze doncha know).             Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe people from this area (Baltimore- Washington Corridor) could hook up for lunch, scope out some things together or just appreciate how plain stupid we probably look to one another.  Not that there’s really anything wrong with being ugly, I feel proud  that I am actually very good at practicing and exhibiting ugliness, it doesn’t take a lot of work ya know. Hell, if we were to hook up as a small clave of complete mullethead wearing, scudge head looking, biscuit head toting boneheads we just might be able to take over the place and buy some fine tackle.  I am sure the hucksters would gladly hook-up a collective group of biscuit head Roffians with good prices and great deals,  just to see us move away from their booth in a hurry. Having never visited the show before I have every intention of dragging this big ass unsightly looking numbnut over to the extravaganza in hope of meeting some other butt ugly Roffian brothers and see some way cool stuff and demos.  Who knows, even a non repugnant ugster like myself could grab some free FF lessons and/or instructions. Anybody interested at meeting one another at the show please post to the group or e-mail me, maybe someone who have been there before could indicate a good place to meet, at least for an introduction.  Keep in mind the uglier the better, attractive people need not apply. On the more serious side, if anybody is interest in car pooling from Columbia, MD, please give me a shout.  I’ll be glad to drive as long as my Jeep is out of the shop. Your One and Only Supreme Cheesehead. Tony Norton

Response:

Tony;    Got a bunch of us meeting at the front desk at noon on Saturday. Just look for the naked guys wearing pink or red carnations swilling Glen Livet from the bottle (anti-freeze doncha know).             Frank Reid

HEY FRANK!  I just figured out HOW to hold that carnation!!!! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

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Tony;    Got a bunch of us meeting at the front desk at noon on Saturday. Just look for the naked guys wearing pink or red carnations swilling Glen Livet from the bottle (anti-freeze doncha know).             Frank Reid HEY FRANK!  I just figured out HOW to hold that carnation!!!! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

ROFLMAO!  Somebody, anybody, have a video rolling when the carnation wielders arrive. If it’s drooping, does it mean it needs water? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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ROFLMAO!  Somebody, anybody, have a video rolling when the carnation wielders arrive. If it’s drooping, does it mean it needs water? Peter

GAAAWWWWD PETER!! You want pictures of the STRANGEST things! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

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So, Tony, after that last bit of visual cueing (god, I’ll need extensive therapy just to cleanse my brain, or a 4 pack of McAffrey’s), do you still want to meet with this bunch?           Frank Drink early, drink often. ROFLMAO!  Somebody, anybody, have a video rolling when the carnation wielders arrive. If it’s drooping, does it mean it needs water? Peter GAAAWWWWD PETER!! You want pictures of the STRANGEST things! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

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I’ll be there Saturday.  I’ll look for the ones wearing a "ROFF" sign around their neck about noon.  I’ll be the decrepit old coot wearing a non-fly fishing white baseball cap that has a small red, white and blue logo that says "owners day 2000" on the front.  If you don’t like what you see make believe that you never heard of ROFF Lou

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Pink carnations!  We all need pink carnations.  The wiff promised to get some at work so I’ll pass them out (before I pass out).             Frank I’ll be there Saturday.  I’ll look for the ones wearing a "ROFF" sign around their neck about noon.  I’ll be the decrepit old coot wearing a non- fly fishing white baseball cap that has a small red, white and blue logo that says "owners day 2000" on the front.  If you don’t like what you see make believe that you never heard of ROFF Lou

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"Frank Reid" wrote Pink carnations!  We all need pink carnations.

   And pick-up trucks!           Charlie, feeling a little out of luck.

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Maybe people from this area (Baltimore- Washington Corridor) could hook up for lunch, scope out some things together or just appreciate how plain stupid we probably look to one another.

SWMBO & I will be there Saturday (I’m still amazed she’s going to do it.) If I can’t find pink carnations, I’ll be wearing a ROFF hat (yeah, and shirt & pants & shoes for you wise guys).   Probably won’t make a whole day of it; but noon Sat. at the entrance table works for me.   Counting spouses, that’s what, seven? Joe F.

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Pink carnations!  We all need pink carnations.  The wiff promised to get some at work so I’ll pass them out (before I pass out).            Frank

I thought the title was A White Sport Coat and Pink Crustaceans. Parrot Head Big Dale

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Well, in Maryland, we all got crabs, so that would be a bit outre.  We should do crab samiches for lunch.      Frank I thought the title was A White Sport Coat and Pink Crustaceans. Parrot Head Big Dale

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Big Dale, Dianna and I were at one of his concerts last summer and had a blast.  Parrot Heads and fins everywhere!!! — Wayne wasting away in margaritaville To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought the title was A White Sport Coat and Pink Crustaceans. Parrot Head Big Dale

Response:

Question:

Our California rivers are full of lead and mercury.  Fortunately it settles to the bedrock below the gravel and hopefully does little damage.  My friend looks for gold in our Mother Load Rivers while I fish for trout.  The lead is from bullets, the mercury was left by the 49ers.  Quite often the mercury is attached to gold. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sadly (for those of us who like to use it) real lead foil is fast becoming a thing of the past on wine bottles.  Lead has caused the same level of concern in this arena as it has elsewhere.  More and more wineries are changing over to other materials.  Plastic, tin, aluminum, and perhaps a few other materials are becoming more and more common.

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I’m afraid I have to disagree with Mike and Wolfgang here. These days, many of the flies tied in third world countries are pretty good.

I can’t think of the brand right now but there is one line of mass produced flies that seems decent.  It comes in a yellow package and has somebody’s name on it but the logo/graphics look nearly identical to the old Fred Arbogast lure company logo.  I think it might be Hank Roberts or something like that.  Not sure about the matierals but the tying is better than the others. Most of the flies I have seen at K-Mart however are fairly crappy. Mu

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I would agree actually Tony, especially as regards the Fulling Mill flies, and there are a couple of others which are not bad.  I have seen a great deal of "Bubble packaged" stuff however, especially in big stores, which was absolutely awful. These things are often sold by the big chains, and not in tackle shops etc.  These were what I meant. It certainly was not my intention to brand all these producers as "sweat shops".  My apologies if I caused such an impression. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m afraid I have to disagree with Mike and Wolfgang here. These days, many of the flies tied in third world countries are pretty good. I’m certain that the wages paid are pretty low by our standards, but to brand all third world manufacture as ’sweat shops’ is probably both unfair and inaccurate. The flies that are marketed here by ‘Fulling Mill Flies’ are (in many cases) quite excellent. They are tied in Kenya and Barry Unwin’s people are very good on product development and quality control. It doesn’t particularly matter that an African woman is never going to go fly fishing. If she’s nimble-fingered enough to tie good quality flies and it’s paying her a decent wage (by local standards), what’s the problem? I have often looked at some of Fulling Mill’s standard patterns (Muddlers, for example) and thought to myself: ‘Why the hell do I bother tying my own?’

I’m not familiar with Fulling Mill’s products Tony.   Judging from what I have seen of the flies sold in the big discount stores like K-Mart they aren’t handling these products.  None of the stuff I’ve seen sold in such places was made by anyone who shows much evidence of being nimble fingered or of being familiar with the patterns upon which their wares are allegedly modeled.  In these products it is not unusual to see that the heads are already unraveling in the package.  Feathers are mismatched, badly frayed, poorly dyed, and askew. This is merely the beginning of what could be a very long list of sins.  And all of this is apparent just looking through the packaging. I think the best way for David to assess these flies is to buy a single package and then take them to a fly shop for comparison.  Even a rank novice should easily be able to see and evaluate the differences.

Response:

Thanks for the info. I thought that by crimping the end of the solder, the rosin would be sealed inside, but it’s too thick to use anyway. Great idea about the lead foil though. I’m not much of a drinker, and had no idea that wrapping was made of lead.  I went ahead and bought a few packs of cheap flies, just for casting practice, for when I finally get my rod and reel.

Sadly (for those of us who like to use it) real lead foil is fast becoming a thing of the past on wine bottles.  Lead has caused the same level of concern in this arena as it has elsewhere.  More and more wineries are changing over to other materials.  Plastic, tin, aluminum, and perhaps a few other materials are becoming more and more common.

Response:

Re side question. Not sure but solder is possible contaminant which should not be used for weighting flies. Would probably be better if you bought the proper stuff from shop just to be safe unless someone can say for sure solder is safe. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

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Re side question. Not sure but solder is possible contaminant which should not be used for weighting flies. Would probably be better if you bought the proper stuff from shop just to be safe unless someone can say for sure solder is safe.

Solder was traditionally made from various proportions of lead and tin. You can still get this stuff but it is being replaced by lead free solder.  The new alloys are being distributed precisely because of concerns over lead poisoning.  Presumably they are safer….at least until we hear otherwise.  The old stuff, since it contains lead, is to be considered somewhat dangerous, but obviously no more so than the lead wire and weights which are still being sold and widely used.  The lead foil wrappers from wine bottles are very useful but equally dangerous. Aside from the lead question, solder has another problem.  Cored solder is hollow and filled with either rosin or acid, either of which works as a flux.  This helps to keep work surfaces from oxidizing under heat, thus ensuring that the melted solder will stick.  Both rosin and acids are corrosive and toxic.  Prolonged or intense exposure to either is something of a health hazard, not to mention the damage they can do to fly tying materials.  Given enough time, the acid from acid core solder will completely disintegrate steel hooks.  You can imagine what it might do to more fragile materials.

Response:

Thanks for the info. I thought that by crimping the end of the solder, the rosin would be sealed inside, but it’s too thick to use anyway. Great idea about the lead foil though. I’m not much of a drinker, and had no idea that wrapping was made of lead.  I went ahead and bought a few packs of cheap flies, just for casting practice, for when I finally get my rod and reel.

Response:

I do not know the specific flies you mention, but most of the chains carry flies made in Africa and other places using almost sweatshop labour Some of these are useable, many more  are not. Materials are substituted, patterns are freely bastardised, the quality is often poor,

(etc., snipped) I’m afraid I have to disagree with Mike and Wolfgang here. These days, many of the flies tied in third world countries are pretty good. I’m certain that the wages paid are pretty low by our standards, but to brand all third world manufacture as ’sweat shops’ is probably both unfair and inaccurate. The flies that are marketed here by ‘Fulling Mill Flies’ are (in many cases) quite excellent. They are tied in Kenya and Barry Unwin’s people are very good on product development and quality control. It doesn’t particularly matter that an African woman is never going to go fly fishing. If she’s nimble-fingered enough to tie good quality flies and it’s paying her a decent wage (by local standards), what’s the problem? I have often looked at some of Fulling Mill’s standard patterns (Muddlers, for example) and thought to myself: ‘Why the hell do I bother tying my own?’ Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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The local K-Mart is being renovated into a Super K-Mart, and all their Blue Fox and Scientific Angler flies are marked down to about 50 cents per fly. Are these flies any good from the standpoint of (a) being well made and durable, or, (b) being useful "models" to emulate when tying my own? Side question: I have some resin core solder, .062" diameter. is this about the right size for making weighted nymphs?

Response:

The local K-Mart is being renovated into a Super K-Mart, and all their Blue Fox and Scientific Angler flies are marked down to about 50 cents per fly. Are these flies any good from the standpoint of (a) being well made and durable, or, (b) being useful "models" to emulate when tying my own? Side question: I have some resin core solder, .062" diameter. is this about the right size for making weighted nymphs?

a. no b. no c. no Any flies you can buy at K-mart are crap.  These flies are all made in places where they have never been used for fly fishing; Kenya, Sri Lanka, etc., and the people making them have almost certainly never had the leisure to use anything like them.  I’ve bought some over the years just to see how well they were made (despite the fact that a glance through the packaging spoke volumes).  They are invariably shit.  Many of them bear only a superficial resemblance to well known patterns whether or not they actually have a name of some sort printed on the package and many of them do not. .062" is a sixteenth of an inch.  MUCH too large for most fly tying applications.  Might be marginally useful for shaping and weighting huge woolly buggers or something similar but the vast majority of patterns in whatever size would never call for anything that large.  Besides, either rosin or acid core solder is a very poor choice because of the effects the flux will have on all the other materials, none of which you are likely to find beneficial.

Response:

I do not know the specific flies you mention, but most of the chains carry flies made in Africa and other places using almost sweatshop labour Some of these are useable, many more  are not. Materials are substituted, patterns are freely bastardised, the quality is often poor, the hooks are not good etc etc.  Best to avoid such flies. The "bubble packaged" ones seem especially awful. The packaging probably costs a lot more than the content. Doubtless five hundred incensed anglers will now write and tell me that they use nothing else, and that the flies are basically perfect. Nevertheless, experience suggests you should avoid such flies unless you know the exact source and reputation of the manufacturer. The solder you mention is quite a bit too thick really. Also you do not know what effect the chemicals in the flux may have on your materials, and the resin core makes it considerably lighter than lead wire.  Most fly-dressing supply houses supply suitable lead wire on bobbins. Save the lead sheet from your whisky and wine bottle tops, this can be cut into strips and used to wrap bodies etc. If you use lead to weight flies, then give it a coat of lacquer, cement, etc, before forming the body, as otherwise the lead will "bleed" through the body and ruin  the fly. For weighting some flies you can use pieces of "paper clips". Cut these to length using side cutters, and then place them parallel to the hook shank on both sides, top and bottom as well if you like, and whip them on.  This makes nicely formed bodies for some nymphs, and guarantees the exact same weight every time. This also works well with copper wire, even thicker stuff which you can not wrap normally. You can also form the lead foil from bottles etc using a set of old wing cutters. This makes really good consistent nymph bodies with the right shape for many nymphs in various sizes. Use one "lead wing" whipped to the top of the hook, or one under one over and then whipped etc.  The weight is also very consistent on these flies, as the exact same amount of lead is used every time, assuming the foil is of the same thickness. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Question:

Reading a local fishing ‘zine I found an article where the author claimed the use of really long leaders (16 to 25 feet) is unique to the Kamloops BC area. These leaders are favoured for chironomid and nymph fishing with a floating line and a weighted pattern. I seem to remember reading of this technique in US sources 10 or 15 years ago, well before I heard about it’s use in BC – and I suspect the technique may have been introduced to the area by visiting US anglers. Does anyone know about it’s use south of the 49th parallel for stillwater nymph fishing? Ralph H

Response:

  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Reading a local fishing ‘zine I found an article where the author claimed   the use of really long leaders (16 to 25 feet) is unique to the Kamloops BC   area. These leaders are favoured for chironomid and nymph fishing   with a floating line and a weighted pattern.   Does anyone know about it’s use south of the 49th parallel for stillwater   nymph fishing?   Ralph H

Leaders of that length are common on the South Island, New Zealand – especially for stillwater and for spot-fishing for large browns in rivers. Do you have formulae for these long leaders?  All I can ever find is 12′, and I’d like to tie some longer ones before I return next Feb. (98). cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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I make my own very long leaders for use with size 24 to 28 downwings. I noticed that very large trout in our area come up to the surface to sip up small flies in the evening. When it is calm, you can barely see the surface disturbance. Usually it’s out in the middle of the lake. I then stalk the fish by canoe and wait to see another rise and then I try to guess where the fish is headed and cast in front. It’s a lot of work but I can usually catch a few nice fish. The long leaders I use are about 16 to 18 feet long and terminate at about 3/4 lb test.     P.S. up our way, the fish very often have no other food source because these lakes have no other fish species or minnows in them…..the trout are obliged to eat insects.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Reading a local fishing ‘zine I found an article where the author claimed   the use of really long leaders (16 to 25 feet) is unique to the Kamloops BC   area. These leaders are favoured for chironomid and nymph fishing   with a floating line and a weighted pattern.   Does anyone know about it’s use south of the 49th parallel for stillwater   nymph fishing?   Ralph H Leaders of that length are common on the South Island, New Zealand – especially for stillwater and for spot-fishing for large browns in rivers. Do you have formulae for these long leaders?  All I can ever find is 12′, and I’d like to tie some longer ones before I return next Feb. (98).

The only reference I have ( I haven’t fished leaders this long ) is to start with a 12ft commercial leader add a couple of feet of 20lb test to the butt end ( for a #6 line) and a couple of feet of tippet to the business end; 16 foot leader. A friend of mine who fishes the kamloops lakes a lot ( now lives up there) eschews tapered leaders period for nymphs etc. "You say I need 10foot leader 4x tippet?" and he just pulls 10feet worth of his 4x spool and loops  it to the end of line. Ralph H

Response:

Reading a local fishing ‘zine I found an article where the author claimed the use of really long leaders (16 to 25 feet) is unique to the Kamloops BC area. These leaders are favoured for chironomid and nymph fishing with a floating line and a weighted pattern. I seem to remember reading of this technique in US sources 10 or 15 years ago, well before I heard about it’s use in BC – and I suspect the technique may have been introduced to the area by visiting US anglers. Does anyone know about it’s use south of the 49th parallel for stillwater nymph fishing? Ralph H

Hi Ralph, Hal Janssen of northern California has been promoting 25 foot leader on floating lines with streamline, fast sinking nymphs for over 20 years. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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   The book _Flyfisher_, by Jeremy Lucas, describes the use of really long leaders (often with a dropper or two) for stillwater nymphing in Britain. Though he does not say so directly, I infer from his descriptions that this is a standard technique for lake fishing in the UK.  This book is very well written and a worthwhile read for anyone interested in stillwater ffing.  I have tried some of his techniques and patterns, but I have not tried leaders over 12′.  I suspect that you could apply the 60:20:20 % formula to any desired length of leader.  The hatchery rainbows in the one lake I fish fairly often don’t seem to need a 20 ft leader or 8x tippet, but anything is worth a try on a bad day… –Roger, Portland OR

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Question:

I will be out in the Durango Co. area in mid July.  I’m looking to get some good fly fishing in, but may not have enough time to spend fishing with a guide.  Any suggestions on some streams that I can fish casually? If so, what flys might be useful at this time. Thanks Mike

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I will be out in the Durango Co. area in mid July.  I’m looking to get some good fly fishing in, but may not have enough time to spend fishing with a guide.  Any suggestions on some streams that I can fish casually? If so, what flys might be useful at this time.

What you want is the San Juan River. It’s actually in New Mexico, but easily accessed from Durango. Wonderful fishing for big trout. Some special regulations and challenges, but well worth it. There are some good accessible places just down from Navajo Reservoir. Check out: Duranglers (guide service in Durango, can give advice at least) http://www.creativelinks.com/recreat/Duranglers.htm New Mexico Flyfishers http://www.thereellife.com/reellife/ — |    Liberty Communications — Michael P. Thompson      | |  Writing, editing, desktop publishing, consulting     | |      <http://www.ecentral.com/members/thompson       |

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Question:

Anyone interested in fishing this great river with myself email: I’m not a guide. I have been fly fishing for 25 years ( I am 35) and tie ALL my own flies. Looking to meet a few avid fly fishermen. -Dave

Response:

Anyone interested in fishing this great river with myself email: I’m not a guide. I have been fly fishing for 25 years ( I am 35) and tie ALL my own flies. Looking to meet a few avid fly fishermen. -Dave

Stand at the head of any Delaware pool on a pleasant Saturday in June, swing your rod around in a circle at arm’s length and you should hit about 10 fellow fly chuckers Seriously, I love to fish the Delaware though don’t get down there as much as I would like these days. I would suggest a stay at the Delaware River Club or the West Branch Angler and you will likely meet a number of friendly folks that share your interest. Good luck, Steve

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Ditto on your recommendation on the West Branch Angler. Top shelf

operation with lots of good people. Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

Response:

Ditto on your recommendation on the West Branch Angler. Top shelf operation with lots of good people.

I much prefer The Delaware River Club over West Branch Angler (they’re about a mile apart for those not familiar with the West Branch of he Delaware.  The West Branch Angler seems to be trying to cater to a more upscale crowd and it’s reflected in the prices of their flyshop and accomodations.  I’ve been in their shop about three times and each time they came off a bit snobbish.  The DRC on the other hand just doesn’t seem pretentious at all.  I stayed at the lodge last year with my girlfriend and even though she doesn’t fish they offered her the use of a pair of waders (no charge) so that she could "fish" with me.  Bob and his wife are extremely congenial and offer information freely about places to fish, techniques, and just about anything else one might need.  Add to that the experience and knowledge of Al Caucci and his fly school at DRC and it’s hard to beat. This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins. Add Bill

John Fereira

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The minimum release has been cut back to 160 cfs. Looks like trouble ahead for the WB and big D trout if we have a "normal" rainfall summer and the Delaware tribs supply enough water to keep Phila. happy. It’s sad that the NYDEC would agree to such a release schedule. But I guess the decision was made by people who don’t fish the WB and and don’t know it’s water needs in the summer. In their ignorance, I suppose 160 cfs sounded like a good number.            Bob

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do mean be by stability in the releases from Cannonsville? I’ve been fishing the WB since 1980 and the water releases have pretty much remained the same. Up one day, down the next. Starting this year, a new release schedule has been instituted. Starting June 1, the mandatory release will be 160 cfs. This will continue until Sept. 1. In the past the mandatory summer release started on June 15 and was 330 cfs. I believe these numbers are correct or nearly so. In addition the minimum winter release has been increased slightly. Instead of 30 people/minute in Deposit flushing their toilets, I think they’ve increased it to 45. I agree with Al Caucci who believes this new minimum summer release schedule is inadequate. If we get a stretch of 80 degree plus days for about a week in July, the water temps. near Hancock will go thru the roof. In addition, with such a small release, most of the trout will tend to move upstream towards Deposit. The "stress bank" has been increased. Big deal. I realize that these higher temps. will adversely affect Caucci’s DRC business which is near Hancock, but I also believe it will have a major negative effect on the whole WB fishery. It most likely will cut the driftboat traffic on the WB which is a plus.  But with the river running low during the summer, it will make the river more fishable than in the past and will put a lot more fishing pressure on the trout. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s the worst case scenario that I see for this summer on the fabulous WB. Bob Hergan

I suppose "relative stability" would be a more accurate term for the flow regime in the upper Delaware. Absolute stability is, of course, unattainable even under natural conditions let alone in a system which serves so many demands. Cold water fishery considerations will always take a back seat for NYC water supply and combatting saltwater intrusion to protect the Phila.& Camden water supplies. The "directed" releases which are aimed at holding back the saltline and and which require a 1750cfs at the Montague gauge are (IMHO) more important to the c.w. fishery than the "conservation" releases which began in fits and starts in 1977 and were finally permanently approved by the DRBC late in ‘83. The agreement called for a minimum release from Cannonsville of 45cfs from 4/1 to 6/14 and 8/16 to 12/31, 325cfs from 6/15 to 8/15 ( except in defined drought or drought warning- a whole nother story) and 33cfs from 11/1 to 3/31. If the required summer release from Canonsville has been cut back to 160 cfs there will be problems in the W. Branch and the mainstem since the mainstem Delaware lives or dies by the cold water thermoplume from the W. Branch. This will happen when there is adequate enough flow in the watershed in general to maintain the "Montague Formula" without Canonsville’s help.                         Regards, RY

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What do mean be by stability in the releases from Cannonsville? I’ve been fishing the WB since 1980 and the water releases have pretty much remained the same. Up one day, down the next. Starting this year, a new release schedule has been instituted. Starting June 1, the mandatory release will be 160 cfs. This will continue until Sept. 1. In the past the mandatory summer release started on June 15 and was 330 cfs. I believe these numbers are correct or nearly so. In addition the minimum winter release has been increased slightly. Instead of 30 people/minute in Deposit flushing their toilets, I think they’ve increased it to 45. I agree with Al Caucci who believes this new minimum summer release schedule is inadequate. If we get a stretch of 80 degree plus days for about a week in July, the water temps. near Hancock will go thru the roof. In addition, with such a small release, most of the trout will tend to move upstream towards Deposit. The "stress bank" has been increased. Big deal. I realize that these higher temps. will adversely affect Caucci’s DRC business which is near Hancock, but I also believe it will have a major negative effect on the whole WB fishery. It most likely will cut the driftboat traffic on the WB which is a plus.  But with the river running low during the summer, it will make the river more fishable than in the past and will put a lot more fishing pressure on the trout. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s the worst case scenario that I see for this summer on the fabulous WB.
Bob Hergan  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip pervious posts Tell you what bugs me: maybe social degradation on the Delaware was inevitable, but it looks to me and plenty of others like the hucksters ruined the experience on the river and instigated a disturbing control mentality throughout the watershed. These guys were largely mute in the 70’s and early 80’s when the battle for adequate flows was going on. Just as soon as there was some stability they moved-in to scarf-up control and reap the profits.                         Ray Ray, I’m not sure what you mean by "social degradation" and would be interested in your definition.

A selfish one admittedly: overcrowding due to access restrictions to the point of unpleasantness, a lack by many of what the old timers called stream etiquette, general unseemliness like yelling things like paraleptophlebia and isonychia across the pools. And many other things that could be endlessly rationalized and debated but that have vitiated what I consider a satisfying angling experience. As to the ‘Johny come lately with money’ scenario, it seems like what else could be expected. With flow stability providing a real world-class fishery the value of riverside property as a money maker was now to be realized. So a couple of guys with the resources show up and start buying so they can lock up as much access as possible. They can sell this access and related services for top dollar. This is pretty much the development scenario going on everywhere.

True but nonetheless still worth bitching about.                                 Regards, Ray

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<snip pervious posts Tell you what bugs me: maybe social degradation on the Delaware was inevitable, but it looks to me and plenty of others like the hucksters ruined the experience on the river and instigated a disturbing control mentality throughout the watershed. These guys were largely mute in the 70’s and early 80’s when the battle for adequate flows was going on. Just as soon as there was some stability they moved-in to scarf-up control and reap the profits.                         Ray

Ray, I’m not sure what you mean by "social degradation" and would be interested in your definition. As to the ‘Johny come lately with money’ scenario, it seems like what else could be expected. With flow stability providing a real world-class fishery the value of riverside property as a money maker was now to be realized. So a couple of guys with the resources show up and start buying so they can lock up as much access as possible. They can sell this access and related services for top dollar. This is pretty much the development scenario going on everywhere. One solution would be the purchase of public access easements by local or state governments. But I wouldn’t hold out much hope for this happening along the New York State boundary. Regards, Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip DRC accolade This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins. Geez, John! I’ve not heard this rumor but…if it is only a rumor of which you know no actual facts it is unfortunate you chose to pass it along on the internet.  Such rumor publication has the potential to do unnecessary harm to the innocent. I agree that the WBA prices are stiff but on the other hand all of the employees I have interacted with have treated me very cordially and have been helpful to me. Their accomodations have been wonderfull. I have heard good things about the DRC from others and will give them a try this year. Regards, Steve Actually, neither WBA or DRC is squeaky-clean in their attempts to attract customers.  WBA’s stocking violations are fairly well known; DRC has a habit of dramatically overstating the amount of private water they have (I measured .75 miles vs. their claim of 2.5 miles), and then they’ll throw you out of the best pool (Cole’s) on a whim.  But not to worry, because all of DRC’s water and much of WBA’s water is fairly easily accessible from the New York side.  My recommendation: find a decent non-angling motel nearby and fish the entire West Branch netween Deposit and Hancock as well as the main stem below Hancock.  Neither DRC or WBA is worth the extra money or the hassle. MZ

Tell you what bugs me: maybe social degradation on the Delaware was inevitable, but it looks to me and plenty of others like the hucksters ruined the experience on the river and instigated a disturbing control mentality throughout the watershed. These guys were largely mute in the 70’s and early 80’s when the battle for adequate flows was going on. Just as soon as there was some stability they moved-in to scarf-up control and reap the profits.                         Ray

Response:

<snip DRC accolade This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins.

Geez, John! I’ve not heard this rumor but…if it is only a rumor of which you know no actual facts it is unfortunate you chose to pass it along on the internet.  Such rumor publication has the potential to do unnecessary harm to the innocent. I agree that the WBA prices are stiff but on the other hand all of the employees I have interacted with have treated me very cordially and have been helpful to me. Their accomodations have been wonderfull. I have heard good things about the DRC from others and will give them a try this year. Regards, Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip DRC accolade This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins. Geez, John! I’ve not heard this rumor but…if it is only a rumor of which you know no actual facts it is unfortunate you chose to pass it along on the internet.  Such rumor publication has the potential to do unnecessary harm to the innocent. I agree that the WBA prices are stiff but on the other hand all of the employees I have interacted with have treated me very cordially and have been helpful to me. Their accomodations have been wonderfull. I have heard good things about the DRC from others and will give them a try this year. Regards, Steve

Actually, neither WBA or DRC is squeaky-clean in their attempts to attract customers.  WBA’s stocking violations are fairly well known; DRC has a habit of dramatically overstating the amount of private water they have (I measured .75 miles vs. their claim of 2.5 miles), and then they’ll throw you out of the best pool (Cole’s) on a whim.  But not to worry, because all of DRC’s water and much of WBA’s water is fairly easily accessible from the New York side.  My recommendation: find a decent non-angling motel nearby and fish the entire West Branch netween Deposit and Hancock as well as the main stem below Hancock.  Neither DRC or WBA is worth the extra money or the hassle. MZ

Response:

I heard the same rumor about the stocking, and the W. Br. Angler owner is doing his damddest to buy up and post as much of the W. Br. and also the main D below Hancock to cater to that upscale crowd you mentioned. That’s why the NYDEC bought a couple of access sites in the no-kill section. Just to get there before he did. Got this from a DEC official about the access sites.  

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any recommendations or advice on flyfishing in/around the Yellowstone area in June? Thanx. Gregg.  Gregg  From what I hear, find some not still frozen lakes. Water will be everywhere, not that one cannot fish  during the run- off, it is just limiting. Harry June is usually a good month for dry flies on the Firehole inside the Park. Snow pack is at 200% in most of the Yellowstone area. Most rivers and tributaries will be high until Aug. Stick to the lakes. Guy

Response:

June is usually a good month for dry flies on the Firehole inside the Park.

There is no Firehole outside the Park. <g  -AR

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Any recommendations or advice on flyfishing in/around the Yellowstone area in June? Thanx. Gregg.

Response:

Expect Snow! Any recommendations or advice on flyfishing in/around the Yellowstone area in June?

– Brian D. Nelson, Missoula, Montana Montana Flyfishing and Hunting Outfitter http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm http://www.montana.com/dno/hunt.htm

Response:

Any recommendations or advice on flyfishing in/around the Yellowstone area in June? Thanx. Gregg.

 Gregg  From what I hear, find some not still frozen lakes. Water will be everywhere, not that one cannot fish  during the run- off, it is just limiting. Harry

Response:

My wife and I fished Yellowstone the last week of June 2 years ago when they had an unusually high run-off.  The only river fishable was the Firehole.

I can give you updates from time to time, but the snowpack here in the wyoming mountains is very high this year- I will not be a pretty spring. I plan on starting my fishing in August (no, I’m not joking)

Response:

My wife and I fished Yellowstone the last week of June 2 years ago when they had an unusually high run-off.  The only river fishable was the Firehole.  We had pretty good luck about 3 miles below Old Faithful Inn – can’t remember the names of the river sections.  Every other river we tried was so full of water you couldn’t reasonably fish them. I suggest you wait until after 15 July. J. Bjostad John Bjostad Columbia Heights, MN Retired avionics engineer – full time fly fishing addict

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any recommendations or advice on flyfishing in/around the Yellowstone area in June? Thanx. Gregg.  Gregg  From what I hear, find some not still frozen lakes. Water will be everywhere, not that one cannot fish  during the run- off, it is just limiting. Harry

June is usually a good month for dry flies on the Firehole inside the Park.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any recommendations or advice on flyfishing in/around the Yellowstone area in June? Thanx. Gregg.  Gregg  From what I hear, find some not still frozen lakes. Water will be everywhere, not that one cannot fish  during the run- off, it is just limiting. Harry June is usually a good month for dry flies on the Firehole inside the Park.

 Hi Steve   You are right, PMD’s are in full swing, as well as the Winnabago emergence and the evening Mini Van fall. Makes for some real fun back casting, at Fountain Flats one can hook a  tuna sandwich and a Brown on the same cast     HM

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Mid/late July on the Green should be fairly good hopper fishing.  If you want to pay a guide to float with you, you had better make reservations soon.  You can fish a lot of the Green on foot, which is my preference.  That’s not to say that a good guide isn’t nice if you have the 250-300$ for the day (per boat, two persons plus guide). The Provo is a so-called "blue ribbon" fishery for big browns, but it gets a LOT of pressure and, in my experience, requires nymphing unless you get there during a hatch.  That may not be true much of the time; maybe I had bad luck or bad technique. If the snow melt run off has settled down, fishing the local canyon streams (Big Cottonwood esp) will yield some small trout which are fun to catch and release. Contact me if I can be of further assistance.  I now live in the Black Hills of South Dakota, but still miss Salt Lake. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be in Salt Lake on business in mid July and would like to extend my visit for some flyfishing during the week of July 22.  How is fishing on the Green River that time of year, and could anyone give me the name of some guides that you would recommend?  Can you fish much of the river without a boat?  Any other recommended fishing alternatives close by?  Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have to following suggestions: Call the Spinner Fall flyshop at  801-583-2602.  They’ll have all the latest info. For the Green River you could try calling Mark Redle at 801-885-3334. He’s a young guy but he really got me into big fish on the Provo.  I hope to float the Green with him this summer.  (Tell him John Close referred you.) If you want to take a trip into the high country call me.  (I don’t guide but I’m always looking for a fishing partner.)  I’m in the Salt Lake City phone book under John and Rox Anne Close. There are two other fly shops in SLC, Western Rivers and Anglers Inn.  If Spinner Fall can’t help you they can. Disclaimer:  Mark is a good friend of mine.  I have no connection to Spinner Fall except that I hide out there when I’m tired of yard work.  :-{)

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I’ll be in Salt Lake on business in mid July and would like to extend my visit for some flyfishing during the week of July 22.  How is fishing on the Green River that time of year, and could anyone give me the name of some guides that you would recommend?  Can you fish much of the river without a boat?  Any other recommended fishing alternatives close by?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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I’ll be in Salt Lake on business in mid July and would like to extend my visit for some flyfishing during the week of July 22.  How is fishing on the Green River that time of year, and could anyone give me the name of some guides that you would recommend?  Can you fish much of the river without a boat?  Any other recommended fishing alternatives close by?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have to following suggestions: Call the Spinner Fall flyshop at  801-583-2602.  They’ll have all the latest info. For the Green River you could try calling Mark Redle at 801-885-3334. He’s a young guy but he really got me into big fish on the Provo.  I hope to float the Green with him this summer.  (Tell him John Close referred you.) If you want to take a trip into the high country call me.  (I don’t guide but I’m always looking for a fishing partner.)  I’m in the Salt Lake City phone book under John and Rox Anne Close. There are two other fly shops in SLC, Western Rivers and Anglers Inn.  If Spinner Fall can’t help you they can. Disclaimer:  Mark is a good friend of mine.  I have no connection to Spinner Fall except that I hide out there when I’m tired of yard work.  :-{)

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I’ll be in Salt Lake on business in mid July and would like to extend my visit for some flyfishing during the week of July 22.  How is fishing on the Green River that time of year, and could anyone give me the name of some guides that you would recommend?  Can you fish much of the river without a boat?  Any other recommended fishing alternatives close by?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

In mid July the water level will be back down (running 4500 cfs now). The fishing will be good but you will have lots of company because that is the week of a Utah state holiday (July 24th).  But then you will have plenty of company any week on the Green.  It will be a good time for terrestrials and maybe some PMD’s. There is a trail which runs down one side of the river for the full seven or so miles between Flaming Gorge and Little Hole.  You can wade fish from anywhere along that trail. There are a lot of guides that work the river.  You might call Anglers Inn, Western Rivers Flyfisher, or Spinner Fall Fly Shop, all in Salt Lake also want to check in at "Fry’s Utah Flyfishing Page". Good Times! P. Bowers

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Let me add another positive story.  I received a Shimano Citica for Christmas in 1992.  In late 1994, I began having problems with it not casting a reasonable distance.  I sent it to the closest "authorized service facitily" in early 1995 (OVER two years after purchase).  They informed me that the manufacturer had identified a problem with a spring mechanism.  It took about two months (that was the service facility, not the manufacturer), but I received a new, 1995 model reel. I was pretty impressed.  When I look at new reels, I always consider a Shimano. Suzanne  

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Given that we all have used this forum to post problems we have had with one or another manufacturer, I felt it was only fair to post a nice experience I had when I managed to break my 4 month old Quantum Graphite Flippin Stick.  I had luckily saved my receipt and packaged it up along with the broken rod on February 20 to send back to Zebco.   They received it on the 23rd and shipped me out a new one with no questions asked on the same day.   I received a new rod on the 27th.  This kind of fast turnaround and no-hassle policy is what will keep me buying Quantum/Zebco products in the future.                                               –  Alan Derrick

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It might not hurt to notify Zebco directly of your satisfaction if you haven’t already done so.  In fact, they are on line at http://www.zebco.com/ and you can E-Mail from their page.   Since they’re very accustomed to the usual flame message from customers that are dissatisified, your note along with comments about having posted to a news group on the Web might help boost their attitudes to maintaining good will via this medium.   It will also send them a message about the importance of having a pesence on the WWW and the clout that it represents.  Too many of the fishing and fly tackle manufacturers still have their heads in the sand on this one.  In the long range, a lack of presence on the WWW will not be beneficial to them. Best Regards Trent Roberson Rx F Fish – - "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish Given that we all have used this forum to post problems we have had with one or another manufacturer, I felt it was only fair to post a nice experience I had when I managed to break my 4 month old Quantum Graphite Flippin Stick.  I had luckily saved my receipt and packaged it up along with the broken rod on February 20 to send back to Zebco.   They received it on the 23rd and shipped me out a new one with no questions asked on the same day.   I received a new rod on the 27th.  This kind of fast turnaround and no-hassle policy is what will keep me buying Quantum/Zebco products in the future.                                              -  Alan Derrick

         Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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