Question:

I like Outbacks, but at 6′3" (not overly tall) I found they have a serious lack of legroom.  I don’t see how you can say they have way more interior space than an average SUV, as my smallish 2-door Explorer is roomier.

If the Outback is too small for you, look at the Forester.  It has more room in all ways, but still isn’t a gas hog or road-warrier. — David L. Johnson    __o   | I don’t believe you, you’ve got the whole damn thing all wrong.  _`(,_  | He’s not the kind you have to wind-up on Sundays.  –Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson   — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? Check out the Subaru Outback.   Way more interior space than many averaged sized SUV’s.  It’s also much easier to get bikes up on the roof.

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot of scars to prove it – trying to get it out. A 4 runner towed me out – for a case of beer. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot of scars to prove it – trying to get it out. A 4 runner towed me out – for a case of beer.

20 PSI is generally too high. Try 15 or even 10 PSI next time and you can probably go anywhere. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

in rec.autos.4×4, Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot of scars to prove it – trying to get it out.

Down to 20psi? For sand try more like 5-8 psi…. I run 2-3 psi in the snow/sand. ~Brian — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

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Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot

I thought those fancy modern "All Wheel Drive" systems are supposed to power the wheels that DO get traction. I guess I’ll stick with my old assumption, that AWD is good for cars on less-than-perfect roads / weather, and not much else. Maybe different AWD systems from different manufacturers are better or worse. — Rick Onanian — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

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Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot I thought those fancy modern "All Wheel Drive" systems are supposed to power the wheels that DO get traction. I guess I’ll stick with my old assumption, that AWD is good for cars on less-than-perfect roads / weather, and not much else. Maybe different AWD systems from different manufacturers are better or worse.

  There is a small difference between the AWD system on   cars like the Porsche Turbo, Audi S6, Lamborghini,   Porsche Cayenne, and the considerably less expensive   ones found on lesser vehicles.

Response:

I’ve driven my Jeep Wrangler on the NC outer banks beaches.  It’s actually pretty tough conditions getting over the dune trails.  I saw a Subaru getting pulled out of the deep sand – he was buried up to his frame, and two really big 4wd trucks were having trouble getting him out.  Depending on recent weather, you might have to drive quite a distance through the softest, driest sand you can imagine, with really deep tracks that require good clearance.  On the beach I see mostly 4WD trucks and "normal/large" size SUVs, not the small ones.  You need to lower your tire pressure to 15-10 psi.  Once you clear the really soft sand you can drive easily.  There’s nothing like the outer banks beaches – sometimes you can drive till you can barley see another vehicle, and have a mile of beach all to yourself.  Other times it’s like a parking lot of 4×4s.  Not sure why.  You can also ride a mountain bike along the hard sand at the water’s edge, but the sand and salt are really bad for the bike… Brad — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

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This past April I had my GMC Sarfari AWD van on the beaches in Hatteras… deflate the air pressure in your tires to 20psi and off you go!!! Everything fits in, or, or behind the van. — Marty S. Baltimore, MD  USA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

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James, If I had the money to blow on a new car, I’d probably buy a Honda Element. This seems to meet all of your criteria, and is available in four wheel drive. We (wife and I) have considered buying one but have decided to wait a couple of years for a Hybrid gasoline/ electric vehicle. (Toyota Highlander, Ford Escape, and Saturn VUE hybrids will all available within the next couple of years, as will a Toyota Sienna Hybrid AWD (a real wallet-buster, no doubt.) Until then, we’re still cramming all of our stuff into our Saturn Wagon! The bikes go on a receiver hitch rack in the back. Dave Wissenbach – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

– rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

I guess for the beach you need wide tires and 4 wheel drive? I am sure that down around Corpus Christi they have some favorite vehicles? I think I have seen Chevy Suburbans in some articles? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

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Response:

Check out the Subaru Outback.   Way more interior space than many averaged sized SUV’s.  It’s also much easier to get bikes up on the roof.

I like Outbacks, but at 6′3" (not overly tall) I found they have a serious lack of legroom.  I don’t see how you can say they have way more interior space than an average SUV, as my smallish 2-door Explorer is roomier.  Maybe more cargo space than a CRV or RAV 4, but those are quite a bit smaller than average size and still have more legroom. Nice vehicles though if you can fit in them. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability?

Be wary of the Mazda Tribute/Ford Escape twins (they are mechanically identical, built by Ford).  They are good vehicles on paper, but have fairly poor reliability and resale value. The Jeep Liberty also has shown poor reliability and resale.  It is more capable off road than the Tribute/Escape but rides rougher, doesn’t drive as nice, is less roomy and gets poorer fuel economy. A well used Toyota 4-runner would be a better vehicle than either the Escape/Tribute or the Liberty are new.  But it is probably more than what you need. Take a long look at a Subaru Outback or Forester.  Also a Honda CRV and Toyota RAV4 would probably meet your needs.  The CRV is especially nice for kids as it has a minivan-like passthough to the back seats. The Hyundai Santa Fe is also a nice vehicle and comes with a great warranty. Do your research and be sure to look at total cost of ownership, including resale value and maintenence costs.  You will find Ford, GM, and Chrysler products really struggle there, while Honda is typically the best. Check out this article: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-08-15-carcosts_x.htm The "cute-utes" are not real off road vehicles only if you plan to rock hop with the Jeeps. They should do fine for what you described. If you had any heavy towing to do I would say differently.  It would be silly to get a more capable 4×4 you would rarely if ever need, and you may get annoyed with the "truckyness" that comes with the bigger 4×4s.  I sure do.  Then again, I really don’t know how serious your off-road plans are.  But I’m guessing not as serious as you think. When I was in high school, my dad had a 2-wheel drive 4-cylinder Ranger.  You may be surprised where I took that thing.  It made a fine hunting vehicle. I can tell you with absolute certainty to stay away from Ford Explorers.  I have one and it is the biggest piece of junk I have ever owned.  And it doesn’t even have 60,000 miles on it yet.  The initial price made it seem like a good value.  But it’s been anything but. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability?

Check out the Subaru Outback.   Way more interior space than many averaged sized SUV’s.  It’s also much easier to get bikes up on the roof. Barry — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Is it necessary to post again? Well, I’ll reply to a couple other points… we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are

Only if you want one. good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability?

I’ve never seen a campground or park that requires a real 4×4 to get to the site. The worst I’ve seen is the Winterhawk bluegrass festival, which requires you to get up a big, steep hill; if it’s muddy, 2-wheel drive vehicles have a tough time. Some campgrounds do have rather rough paths, but all that’s required is a little extra ground clearance. we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use.

This is when you’ll use it most, on the road. You should probably make that a priority. road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way..

Compact SUVs, as well as larger ones built on a car platform, are not off-road vehicles, no matter what the manufacturer claims. They can handle grass, the path to the campground, etc; but tough stuff like deep in the woods or in deep sand, you need quite the ballsy off-road pickup (or SUV built on a pickup truck platform). Do you expect to drive on the beach? I’ve only ever seen vehicles allowed on the beach on TV shows like Baywatch; nowhere I’ve been, have I seen vehicles permitted to drive onto the sand, or anywhere out of the parking lot. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE?

The Ford Escape is a car-based SUV. It will do anything spectacular. It probably gives a pretty good ride on the road. how is the Jeep liberty?

Reportedly, the Liberty is okay. Never driven one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess

I don’t drive anything on the beach. For fishing/camping/biking, I drove a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am for 5 years; a 1987 Cadillac Sedan Deville for a couple years before that; and now I drive a full size pickup, specifically, a 2002 GMC Sierra 4×4, extended cab, etc. The Caddy and the Pontiac did fine for all sorts of off-road situations, although I did bend a wheel by going too fast in the Caddy on a very rough trail. People who think a low-slung, 2wd car can’t go off road, either have never done it, or are unskilled off-road drivers. They can’t do really gnarly off road stuff; but car-based SUVs can’t either, except that they can deal with a little bit slipperier conditions and a little bit higher clearance issues. ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget

My GMC Sierra, which does NOT have any sort of off-road package, and has lame-looking road tires, is the most comfortable vehicle I’ve ever driven. The tires, which look lame, provide ample grip in all sorts of snow, mud, etc. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute?

I can’t imagine why not. can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james

– Rick Onanian — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

You might want to look at the Suzuki XL-7 (4 wheel drive version).  You could get the third row seat version and still stay close to the upper limit of your price range.  Even an ‘02 model would be good, and most (those sold after August last year) have a transferable 7 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.  It might be worth looking at. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Question:

….Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension.

Phhht!  Too easy.  Get a bigger hammer.      :) Wolfgang no charge for this one

Response:

*snip patent info*    Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

Response:

*snip patent info*    Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

Anything with mineral oil in it is toxic.  If you drink mineral oil for instance, you will die, probably quite horribly.  Chucking even small amounts of mineral oil into the environment is a very bad thing to do. You may remember fairly recent scandals, especially in Italy, where Olive oil was "stretched" with mineral oil. Many people died horribly, others lost their sight, and had various other nasty things happen to them. Mineral oil is also a contact poison, and may cause dermatitis and other allergic reactions. Some products produced by the ethoxylation of Nonyl Phenol, Glycerine, and various other substances are used among other things as very high grade surgical soap. Eating this will cause severe and uncontrollable vomiting, will damage the stomach, throat, etc, and depending on the other ingredients may also be toxic. Chemical analyses are available for all the substances listed in the patent. Some are toxic, some are not. Quite a few are environmental pollutants ( Long chain, non bio-degradable molecules). Ethoxylated substances change their characteristics and properties quite radically as a result of polymerisation.  Phenol for instance is an extremely dangerous and potent poison in its raw state.  It would be necessary to read all the chemical  and property analyses of the substances concerned in order to determine the toxicity of any mixture based on them. If silica is added to the stuff, this implies that it is finely ground. When dry, ground silica dust is extremely dangerous, and is number one on the list of carcinogens.  In a wet mixture it is probably relatively harmless. Not to put to fine a point on it, I would not use the stuff. TL MC

Response:

This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene)  C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer".  When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene)  which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2  which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink.

On a lighter note, one of my favorite "vanity plates" to date was a simple sedan with the license plate C2H5OH (or something close to that, I can’t remember now).   It took me a while, but I eventually surmised the owner’s name was Ethel. Joe F.

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On a lighter note, one of my favorite "vanity plates" to date was a simple sedan with the license plate C2H5OH (or something close to that, I can’t remember now).   It took me a while, but I eventually surmised the owner’s name was Ethel.

That would be just C2H5. — Charlie…

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I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons.

Might be too late now though.

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—- It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory

towards US citizens.  I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case". —- our envy of Mike Connor’s reputation and his considerable contribution to the world of flyfishing is obvious. —- Padishar Creel — George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

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 George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

Diagnosis, Doctor?

Response:

 George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later. Diagnosis, Doctor?

—– Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains" <G. Padishar Creel — Mental health Expert of the Major Roffian Character Disorders

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Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains" <G.

—— As to an interesting link that may be of some relevance! http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html —— Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

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assume we are talking about fly fishermen.  Think we have two major groups. very rich with their float boat guides and trips to Chili  and the rural low income folks  who just have always fished because it is a way of life. The folks who amaze me are the governmental workers and the educators who seem to spend half their time fishing, and half their time posting on the internet.    Relative to income –some of us thought we were in the higher bracket, but due to recent stock market now find ourselves   trying to catch and eat. Indian Joe

Response:

OK. Since you decline to answer.  For a number of years I worked for ICI ( Imperial Chemical Industries ) in England. I possess a City and Guilds of London Certificate in chemical plant operation, ( With distinction ). and I was, among other things,  chief operator of the ethoxylation facility. I am not a chemist as such, but have a good basic knowledge of chemistry.( OK perhaps a little more than just "basic"), it was essential for my job at the time. I manufactured thousands of tons of the stuff which you are mixing and selling as your own invention.    H    H     I      I    C=C     I     I    H   H Usually written    H    H     I      I    C=C    —–    Addition polymerisation.     I     I    H   H This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene)  C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer".  When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene)  which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2  which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink. Any chemist, or anybody with even a faint knowledge of chemistry would recognise it immediately. How remarkably strange that the "inventor" of a substance has no idea what is in it. Just to be absolutely certain I researched the US patent office.  Here is the extract. —- United States Patent  4,184,889 Gehrke  January 22, 1980 —- Fly, line and leader sinker composition Abstract A composition for application to fishing flies, lines and leaders to cause them to sink when placed in water. —- Inventors:  Gehrke; George E. (Drawer 1204, Salida, CO 81201) Appl. No.:  909667 Filed:  May 25, 1978 Current U.S. Class: 106/267; 43/4; 516/204; 516/DIG1 Intern’l Class:  C08L 091/00 Field of Search:  106/266,267,243 —- References Cited [Referenced By] —- U.S. Patent Documents 3526596 Sep., 1970 Kress et al. 252/52. 3872048 Mar., 1975 Brown 252/52. Foreign Patent Documents 995085 Jun., 1965 GB. Primary Examiner: Morris; Theodore Attorney, Agent or Firm: Wymore; Max L. —- Claims —- What is claimed is: 1. A composition of the matter to be applied to a fly, line or leader to cause same to sink below the surface of the water when cast by a fisherman which comprises about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol, about one part by volume of sorbitan monolaurate and about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil blended together. 2. The composition of matter of claim 1 wherein the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenyl has a molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct, of four. 3. The composition of matter of claim 1 including a small amount of cod liver oil and a silica thickener. 4. A method of treating a line or fly to promote sinking when cast in water which comprises applying a composition thereto of about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol and mixing about one part therewith of sorbitan monolaurate to prevent the formation of an immersible gell between the reaction products and the water. —- Description —- One of the problems confronting the avid fly fisherman is the ability of having a fly sink fast after it is cast into the water. One solution has been to use split shot on the leader or by the use of weighted flies; however, the weighted flies do not move in a natural manner and the use of split shot on the leader makes for difficult, inaccurate and sometimes, unsafe casting. While some fly fishermen have used a sinking liquid applied to the leader, this liquid will not stay on the leader and needs to be reapplied practically for each and every cast. The benefits and advantages of the present invention are achieved by the use of a composition of matter formulated to provide ease of application and a composition that will stay on a fly and cause it to sink rapidly for many, many successive casts and wherein the fly sinks down low to where the fish are. The sinker compound works so well and lasts such a very long time that in most instances, there is no need to use split shot or weighted flies. The composition is also an excellent leader sink and makes sinking lines sink even faster. It is a primary object of this invention to provide a fly, line and leader sinker composition that is easy to use, wipes off fingers easily, provides rapid sinking to lines, leaders and flies and is retained thereon for a multitude of successive casts. Another object of the invention is to provide a sinking composition that does not interfere with the natural movement of flies and will permit safe and accurate casting. A still further object of the present invention is to provide a sinking composition many times better than previously available compositions and avoids the use of a streamer or nymph to achieve sink characteristics. Additional benefits and advantages of the present invention become apparent upon the reading of the description of the preferred embodiment. The fly, line and leader sinker composition according to this invention consists of about four parts by volume of Surfonic N-40 surface active agent, about one part by volume of Span 20 and about ten parts by weight of a mineral oil. The composition may also contain a small amount of cod liver oil for scent purposes, a small amount of mineral oil and a small amount of Aerosil 200 as a thickening agent. These ingredients are mixed together to form a highly viscous liquid product. The Surfonic N-40 is manufactured by Jefferson Chemical Company, Inc. and is available from VanWaters & Rogers, division of Univar, 4300 Holly St., Denver, Col. 80216. Surfonic N-40 surface active agent is a non-ionic reaction product of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol. The products are designated by a number following the letter "N". The number is a ten-fold multiple of the molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct. The surface active properties result from the combination of the hydrophilic polyoxyethylene chain and the hydrophobic nonyl phenol. These groups combine to form a molecule which "crosses" the oil-water interface and breaks down the surface tension so as to promote a dispersion. Surfonic N-40 is water-insoluble, oil-soluble. When the Surfonic N-40 alone contacts water, the water acts with the Surfonic N-40 to produce an immiscible gel. A surfactant Span 20 is added to the Surfonic N-40 and when mixed therewith, prevents hydration of the Surfonic N-40 from producing an immiscible gel. Span 20 is a trademark of ICI Americas, Inc., Specialty Chemicals Division, Wilmington, Del. 19897 and is used to identify a non-ionic surfactant of sorbitan monolaurate. The composition may also include about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil and a small amount of a thickness such as silica known by the trade name Aerosil 200 a product of Degussa Corp., Route 46 at Hollister Rd., P.O. Box 2004, Teterboro, N.J. 07608. The resulting composition is a thick amber liquid that can be placed on the figures and rubbed into a fly, line or leader. When a fly, line or leader treated with the composition of this invention is cast into water, the fly, line and/or leader will sink immediately and will avoid any tendency of floating on top of the water. The line, fly and/or leader so treated can be cast and re-cast numerous times without the necessity of renewing the sinker composition. The present invention may be embodied in other specific forms without departing from the spirit or essential characteristics thereof. The presently disclosed embodiment is, therefore, to be considered in all respects as illustrative and not restrictive, the scope of the invention being indicated by the appended claims rather than by the foregoing description, and all changes which come within the meaning and range of equivalency of the claims are, therefore, intended to be embraced therein. * * * * * —- END OF COPY. What this basically means is, you managed to "bamboo"zle and bullshit the US Patent Office into granting you a patent on a soap mixture.  With Silica, mineral oil, etc ( see above) added.  You have been filling this mixture into little bottles, and selling it to the unsuspecting angling public for years. Do you actually add "scent" ?  Most unsporting. Whatever, a drop of any reasonable detergent works better, and has no mineral oil or other crap in it. Any chemist would be laughing himself sick at all this. If you are a chemist, then I am the Archangel Michael. Would you like an independent analysis of Gink as well?  No trouble I assure you. MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ? Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. .  Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire.  Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses.

Response:

H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory towards US citizens.  I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case".

Response:

You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin.

ROFF Backyard Wrestling !  It’s a hoot ! I’m waiting for Chyna to come out and beat both of you over the head with a folding metal chair ! Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Don Thompson writes: Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

Uh, Don, uh, you will confuse him with facts.  This is the guy that flew F-100s in Korea and shot down MiG-19s a year before they came out, and a year after the war ended.  Besides, by his own words, he tells us he has been tying flies for "four score years".  The sucker is over 100 years old, apparently. BTW, I have seen and fished with Mike Connor tied flies.  They are superb examples of the art, and he gave them freely without me asking, without me supporting him, without me endorsing anything.  Of course he hasn’t been tying for 80 something years like George……. I’ve also cast a rod designed and built by Mike.  I own (moment of insanity, I know) a rod built by Gehrke.  There is no comparison to the way Mike’s rod casts to the tomato stake that George made.  If only I had pulled a Vern at the The Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

I think it’s nothing This is something     H   H      l     l H-C=C-H      l     l     H   H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body.  I forget which part. This is something better.     H   H      l     l H-C=C-OH      l     l     H   H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something

Response:

That ain’t shit, look at this:                 S                     S                         S                             S                                 S                                 S                             S                         S                     S                 S

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something     H   H      l     l H-C=C-H      l     l     H   H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body.  I forget which part. This is something better.     H   H      l     l H-C=C-OH      l     l     H   H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

Now that’s a post for the ages, if I ever saw one.  Thanks for warmin’ my heart this morn Mike.  I am headed out to Wilson Creek in an hour to fish with another fine ROFFian, Wally Boy.  Mike you deserve a beer basket for this one.  If only I were so damned articulate! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ?   Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head?   Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport,  you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed.  It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send  per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well.  I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant?   If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

Response:

… You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. …

Priceless. A tad harsh on pigs and alley cats not to mention downright insulting to bricks but a ROFF Hall of Fame post nonetheless. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Where do you get all this crap from ?  

Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. Look Connor, you old, wrong opinionated fool.  My rates for my Internet Service is $199.00 for a full year.  The DEDICATED phone line is $25.95 a month.  This is only $322.40 for a full year.  Amount of hours I use each month regarding Internet business exceeds 80 hours a month, which equates to about .32 Cents AN HOUR!  So what is your problem, moron? Don’t you believe these rates, you bullshit artist? Next, do you want me to send you a video tape of me flying my airplane? How about a grand tour of my chemistry lab?  Who gives a shit what YOU think?  Incidentally, there is nothing I don’t know about an internal combustion engine.  American kids, cut their teeth on them since puberty.  Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire.  Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses. So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin. I bet if I said belly button, you would write a poem or essay on it for Roff? Okay, "Billy Button!" Connor, I know more about fly tying in my little finger then what you will know in the next fifty years.  I will say (for the record) you have a NICE signature as a fly tier, but what does the rest of your concerns amount too?  A waste of our valuable time because it proves nothing regarding what you know about us in America. I never, in all my life, saw anyone like you.  You jump on every subject,  you offer up endless amounts of crap we all already know about and you always seem to be looking for a pat on the head. Okay.  I can do that.   Nice Connor.  Nice Connor.  Good boy, Connor. Look?  Let me put it this way.  Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

Response:

Look?  Let me put it this way.  Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

Here’s a topic for you George. It should be easy for you since you seem to know so much about the internet. Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension. Paul

Response:

Exceeds $50,000 a year.  So what is the problem with paying $300 a year or

less for all the Internet Phone Time one would care to use, again, FOR A FULL YEAR without limits on amount of time. How cheap can you get? — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the saga continues"

Where do you get all this crap from ?   Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head?   Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport,  you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed.  It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send  per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well.  I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant?   If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

Response:

Question:

Tenterden Trout Waters is hosting the Troutmaster 2000 fly fishing competition on Wednesday 10th May.

This is OBVIOUSLY incorrect, as ALL known "Troutmasters" will be down in North Carolina on the 10th… /daytripper (Thought you could fool us, eh?)

Response:

This is OBVIOUSLY incorrect, as ALL known "Troutmasters" will be down in North Carolina on the 10th… /daytripper (Thought you could fool us, eh?)

EXXXCCCCUUUUSE ME!  Some of us have been left behind. Sorry for the rude interrruption by that Trip person, now what were you saying, rodh1 old boy?  Now that all of the scallywags, scoundrels, reprobates, and other assorted riff-raff have transported themselves to NC, the rest of us can conduct a refined, elegant, tasteful, and expert Troutmasters competition. Hey Trip, TTHHUUFFT! 3pm looks good on ya,  I hear Louie’s planning to load up on some of that famous chilli for lunch.  Enjoy the Audi ambiance. Peter

Response:

This is OBVIOUSLY incorrect, as ALL known "Troutmasters" will be down in North Carolina on the 10th… /daytripper (Thought you could fool us, eh?) EXXXCCCCUUUUSE ME!  Some of us have been left behind.

Whoops! OK – all but ONE Troutmaster then ;^) Sorry for the rude interrruption by that Trip person, now what were you saying, rodh1 old boy?  Now that all of the scallywags, scoundrels, reprobates, and other assorted riff-raff have transported themselves to NC, the rest of us can conduct a refined, elegant, tasteful, and expert Troutmasters competition. Hey Trip, TTHHUUFFT! 3pm looks good on ya,  I hear Louie’s planning to load up on some of that famous chilli for lunch.  Enjoy the Audi ambiance.

NO! GOD NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo! I’m packing ear plugs ‘cuz of his taste in music. Better bring some clothes pins, too, I reckon… /daytripper (Dooooooooomed! ;^)

Response:

Anyone interested in the original Troutmaster 99 video featuring the music of Esquivel, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Garth Brooks, Patrick O’hearn, Jean Luc Ponty, Rush and many more including yours truly should drop our friend tbone a line for a review or send an e-mail for ordering information.  This is not SPAM. I promise. JE * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Tenterden Trout Waters is hosting the Troutmaster 2000 fly fishing competition on Wednesday 10th May.

Rodh1, Just read this Perhaps a decent "Back" cast will reach the fish. — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk

Response:

Tenterden Trout Waters is hosting the Troutmaster 2000 fly fishing competition on Wednesday 10th May. Check the web site for details, or contact Barry Evans with your questions. (01580) 763201 http://www.trout-waters.co.uk Check site for latest fishing reports, online catch book, local interest and even recipes! Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

It seems that the vise jaws were on the brittle side, at least judging by the post over the last year or so. I think the company may have gone under.             Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are they any good?

Response:

Tom: Save your money. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are they any good?

Response:

Are they any good?

Response:

Are they any good?

Tom:  this question was posed recently, either here or in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying, and I seem to recall some very negative comments.  No personal experience, however. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Question:

Try tying the Spider Hitch with four turns.   A friend and I tested this on Izorline’s machines at the last Fred Hall Show and found the knot is strongest when tied with four turns.  More turns actually weaken the knot.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John

Response:

Can any of you guys direct me to a place to find this "albright" and "spiderhitch" knots?? I have been trying to collect as many knots for these new braids and polymers as possible. Thanks KLH — Please remove KH from e-mail to respond

Response:

I tried the SpiderWire braid recently and boy can I agree with you. My first cast saw the lure fly away by itself.    The same thing happened about 4 casts later with another new lure.   I also found the line winding up on the drag knob on top of the spool a few times.   I cut about 50 feet of tangled up line and tried again.   Eventually I found I could cast farther but decided against throwing lures with it

It has to be that your knots are pulling thru when the lure flies off the line like that.  Spiderwire is very ‘knot-sensitive’.  I use only UNI-knots and have 100% line strength every time.  Never had a break at the knot, and jig fishing the St. Clair River(12-18mph current with very sharp rocks) the rocks had to practically cut the line in two to weaken it significantly. I definitely don’t recommend casting any braided line with anything but a level wind reel.  I don’t care what advertising hype the marketers use, there’s just too much line twist using a spinning reel with braided. Now the fusion works OK on my Stradic 2000.  Get nice King Salmon with it.  But its casting live bait on a 3-way swivel rig type of casting. Cast and retrieve still gets too much line twist for me.

Response:

Can any of you guys direct me to a place to find this "albright" and "spiderhitch" knots?? I have been trying to collect as many knots for these new braids and polymers as possible. Thanks KLH — Please remove KH from e-mail to respond

Here are several nice sites I’ve found on the Web that are dedicated to knots:         http://www.ozemail.com.au/~fnq/fishing/         http://www.earlham.edu/suber/knotlink.htm  (*excellent list of links*)         http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/2158/knotix.htm Btw, the last link has the Albright right there on the first page.  And, also, I’ve been fishing with Spiderwire for the last 3 years or so and have found the Albright to be far and away the best knot for attaching the stuff to mono. Good luck, Peter.

Response:

I’ve been fishing with Spiderwire for the last 3 years or so and have found the Albright to be far and away the best knot for attaching the stuff to mono. Good luck, Peter.

Can you tell us what’s the best knot(s) in your mind, Peter? John.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For years I have used TriMax, and Trilene 4lb. Test lines for Snapper Blue fishing in CT on Long Island Sound without any problems. This year when I re-spooled at the start of the Season I decided to switch to SpiderWire. I have found out through MANY breaks, tangles, snarls, nots, and birdsnests causing lost fish that this VERY Expensive line is definitely not all that it is advertised to be. The slightest nick, knot, or any tangle will reduce the strength ot this line to "0". I am very disappointed with this product and I will not waste my money on it ever again. I live within walking distance of one of the hottest Stripper fishing areas in CT, and have talked with many other fishermen this season who have tried this line. Without exception their experiences all mirror mine. This line seems VERY prone to tangles, nots, and nicks. It Is a very strong line when in Perfict condition, but after your first couple of casts it is not perfect any more.  Bill I tried the SpiderWire braid recently and boy can I agree with you. My first cast saw the lure fly away by itself.    The same thing happened about 4 casts later with another new lure.   I also found the line winding up on the drag knob on top of the spool a few times.   I cut about 50 feet of tangled up line and tried again.   Eventually I found I could cast farther but decided against throwing lures with it and tried bottom fishing.    This is where the line excells.   I could feel the bottom so clearly that it was as if I was touching it with my finger.    I could feel the slightest taps of the fish.    This caused me to pull the bait out of their mouth so it required patience to allow the bait to be swallowed.    I’m still uncertain about the line. It’s so light that you have to keep an eye on it because it can so easily wrap around a guide or anything sticking out. — Norman Hirsch                      Fax:  212-304-9759 NH&A                               BBS:  212-304-9759,,,,,,,3 577 Isham St. # 2-B                CompuServe:  72115,661 Phone: 212-304-9660                URL: http://www.nha.com

When you respool, try the fused superlines.  I like both fusion and fireline.  Just started using the fireline and I think I will switch to it from fusion.  It seems to have more wear resistance.  I have no problems with knots, in fact when I do get a birds nest on my baitcasters it is much easier to remove than mono. Tim — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

Response:

I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John

Response:

I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John

What did you test it with, a tow truck?  Either it was a very bad batch or something; I don’t see how you could break the good stuff just by pulling on it.  I can’t hardly hold 30lb. test stuff while I cut it with a knife.  Slips right thru my fingers or would cut the daylights out of my hand.  Try a double UNI knot.  Works for my ‘wire to mono’ connections.  No slip and no weakening.

Response:

For years I have used TriMax, and Trilene 4lb. Test lines for Snapper Blue fishing in CT on Long Island Sound without any problems. This year when I re-spooled at the start of the Season I decided to switch to SpiderWire. I have found out through MANY breaks, tangles, snarls, nots, and birdsnests causing lost fish that this VERY Expensive line is definitely not all that it is advertised to be. The slightest nick, knot, or any tangle will reduce the strength ot this line to "0". I am very disappointed with this product and I will not waste my money on it ever again. I live within walking distance of one of the hottest Stripper fishing areas in CT, and have talked with many other fishermen this season who have tried this line. Without exception their experiences all mirror mine. This line seems VERY prone to tangles, nots, and nicks. It Is a very strong line when in Perfict condition, but after your first couple of casts it is not perfect any more.  Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For years I have used TriMax, and Trilene 4lb. Test lines for Snapper Blue fishing in CT on Long Island Sound without any problems. This year when I re-spooled at the start of the Season I decided to switch to SpiderWire. I have found out through MANY breaks, tangles, snarls, nots, and birdsnests causing lost fish that this VERY Expensive line is definitely not all that it is advertised to be. The slightest nick, knot, or any tangle will reduce the strength ot this line to "0". I am very disappointed with this product and I will not waste my money on it ever again. I live within walking distance of one of the hottest Stripper fishing areas in CT, and have talked with many other fishermen this season who have tried this line. Without exception their experiences all mirror mine. This line seems VERY prone to tangles, nots, and nicks. It Is a very strong line when in Perfict condition, but after your first couple of casts it is not perfect any more.  Bill

Since the line has zero memory (stretch) it will always snap at the given weight tolerance whether the line is new or nicked. With slow-even retrieve it’ll work fine and perform beyond the test tolerance, but it can snap on hookset.  It can also cause you to loose fish that are not ‘hooked’ well.  Slack line with no memory will simply ‘fall’ out of the fish’s mouth.  The knotting, bunching and tangling can be from an uneven retrieve speed (which is natural). The super lines are very unforgiving.                                      Kate — Corners Sports and Tackle                       5303 South 108th Street                         Hales Corners, Wisconsin 53130                   (414)425-2640

Response:

I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John What did you test it with, a tow truck?

Believe it or not, I simply used my hand to pull and it broke. I tested several time to prove it.  Not that SpiderWire is no good, but the tests showed that the Spider Wire/ Spider Hitch combination is probabily no good.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -For years I have used TriMax, and Trilene 4lb. Test lines for Snapper Blue fishing in CT on Long Island Sound without any problems. This year when I re-spooled at the start of the Season I decided to switch to SpiderWire. I have found out through MANY breaks, tangles, snarls, nots, and birdsnests causing lost fish that this VERY Expensive line is definitely not all that it is advertised to be. The slightest nick, knot, or any tangle will reduce the strength ot this line to "0". I am very disappointed with this product and I will not waste my money on it ever again. I live within walking distance of one of the hottest Stripper fishing areas in CT, and have talked with many other fishermen this season who have tried this line. Without exception their experiences all mirror mine. This line seems VERY prone to tangles, nots, and nicks. It Is a very strong line when in Perfict condition, but after your first couple of casts it is not perfect any more.  Bill

I tried the SpiderWire braid recently and boy can I agree with you. My first cast saw the lure fly away by itself.    The same thing happened about 4 casts later with another new lure.   I also found the line winding up on the drag knob on top of the spool a few times.   I cut about 50 feet of tangled up line and tried again.   Eventually I found I could cast farther but decided against throwing lures with it and tried bottom fishing.    This is where the line excells.   I could feel the bottom so clearly that it was as if I was touching it with my finger.    I could feel the slightest taps of the fish.    This caused me to pull the bait out of their mouth so it required patience to allow the bait to be swallowed.    I’m still uncertain about the line. It’s so light that you have to keep an eye on it because it can so easily wrap around a guide or anything sticking out.   — Norman Hirsch                      Fax:  212-304-9759 NH&A                               BBS:  212-304-9759,,,,,,,3 577 Isham St. # 2-B                CompuServe:  72115,661 Phone: 212-304-9660                URL: http://www.nha.com

Response:

I have been using the Spider-Wire Fusion line for the past two years. I won’t use anything else on my lighter rod and spinning reel combos. I have found that the lighter and longer the pole the better the cast and feel are. I have used the fusion wire for live bait fishing, ripping, and trolling. If you cast alot, tie a heavy sinker on the end of the line and cast it in your backyard a couple dozen times before you go fishing. This will not get rid of the loops but it will loosen them, making it much easier to cast lighter set ups.Make sure you read the pamphlet that comes with the Spider Wire, it will show you how to properly load it on your reel and how to tie knots with it. It does not act or feel like mono and it takes some getting used to. I hated the first spool I bought too. I like the Fusion Wire because it floats and doesn’t wrap itself around submerged objects between the bait and my pole. The sensitivity of the line is far superior to any mono I have ever used, I can  tell what kind of fish is checking out its last supper 80% of the time. I don’t wait until the fish hooks itself to set the hook. I depend on the flexability of my pole rather than the flexability of the line. I have caught more bites this year than anyother year fishing. I have been using the Fusion Wire with Jitter Bugs and Hulla Poppers the past couple of weeks with great results. I use a stiff rod and keep all slack out of the line. Perhaps it is the line or the line made me change my style of fishing but I sure do like the Fusion wire.                                     Mike   WOLVERINE

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John What did you test it with, a tow truck? Believe it or not, I simply used my hand to pull and it broke. I tested several time to prove it.  Not that SpiderWire is no good, but the tests showed that the Spider Wire/ Spider Hitch combination is probabily no good.

I am assuming you are using the braided spider wire.  That will cut right through itself or mono.  I have switched to using spider wire fusion or fireline.  I use palomar knots for terminal tackle and uni-knots for line to and some terminal knots and albrights for line to wire.  Of course I am not using 50 pound test, but the results should be the same.  Never had any of them break due to knots and only had some wear problems on slip weights that rub on the line over time, have to retie once or twice a day.  Love the lines! — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

Response:

I love the stuff for bottom fishing.  This is where it’s ultra sensetivity shines.  I use palomar knots for terminal tackle and albrights for lint to line or wire.  I haven’t had a problem with the line cutting through itself.  Although, it will dig through the line on the spool and bury itself.  That isn’t much of a problem.  I use 80 lb. test for grouper.  Ocasionally a hook will hang on the bottom.  All I do is tie the line to a cleat and power ahead.  The albright holds, and if you have a strong enough swivel, you can go right back fishing w/o tying a new knot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried to tie SpiderWire to mono.  To avoid the complicated Bimini Twist, I used Spider Hitch (6 loops) on my 50 pounds SpiderWire.  Surprisingly, SpiderWire broke at the knot.  I tested several times and results were the same.  What’s wrong with the SpiderWire/Spider Hitch combination?  Seems to me that the SpiderWire is not as strong as what I thought. John What did you test it with, a tow truck? Believe it or not, I simply used my hand to pull and it broke. I tested several time to prove it.  Not that SpiderWire is no good, but the tests showed that the Spider Wire/ Spider Hitch combination is probabily no good. I am assuming you are using the braided spider wire.  That will cut right through itself or mono.  I have switched to using spider wire fusion or fireline.  I use palomar knots for terminal tackle and uni-knots for line to and some terminal knots and albrights for line to wire.  Of course I am not using 50 pound test, but the results should be the same.  Never had any of them break due to knots and only had some wear problems on slip weights that rub on the line over time, have to retie once or twice a day.  Love the lines! — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

Response:

Question:

Hi folks: I have noticed on our newsgroups a bunch of spam coming through.  You don’t have to take this.  Subscribe today to the Flyfishing and Flytying Mailing will be automatically subscribed. Come join in on the clean fun of flyfishing and flytying…and no SPAM. Joe

Response:

Hi folks: I have noticed on our newsgroups a bunch of spam coming through.  You don’t have to take this.  Subscribe today to the Flyfishing and Flytying Mailing List.

I dunno, I’ve discovered all kinds of fly and line dressings as well as other scented and flavored lubricants that way.   — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

 I actually have a fablualous  idea for once…….here goes Saddam Hussein  ( sorry about the spell ) has a home page . Since Iraq has no internet service the dope has all of his e-mails hand delievered to him each day from Jordan…….I say we plaster the boards with the site and let the spammers go nuts……. I personally am going to send all spammers with another a major jerk. Here is Saddam’s home page or so I’m told: — Visit my web site:http://www.commonlink.com/~Midwestflytying

Response:

Yes, I found this to be a valid page. I will send first an American flag GIF to him! Gee, I just hope his e-mail supports HTML.

|

Response:

Question:

My son caught a Crappie last weekend that was 15 inches long and had a 5 1/2 inch girth.  Does anyone know how to approximate the weight using the length and girth?

Response:

Hi-    Go to  http://www.flyline.com  and click on "tips and techniques". That will take you to a girth/length/weight table. It was designed for trout but will be close enough for crappie.    -Ralph My son caught a Crappie last weekend that was 15 inches long and had a 5 1/2 inch girth.  Does anyone know how to approximate the weight using the length and girth?

Ralph Cutter, California School of Flyfishing. http://www.flyline.com

Response:

My son caught a Crappie last weekend that was 15 inches long and had a 5 1/2 inch girth.  Does anyone know how to approximate the weight using the length and girth?

Hi, I have seen a few Crappie that big when I worked in a bait-n-tackle shop. A friend of mine caught one that big and had it mounted. It is a beautiful trophy. Where did you catch it? Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

My son caught a Crappie last weekend that was 15 inches long and had a 5 1/2 inch girth.  Does anyone know how to approximate the weight using the length and girth?

That is one skinny crappie.  Did you know that girth is the measurement around the body at the widest point. I think you took the width so you’ll have to estimate for girth. Your son caught a Lucy – no need for further definition! This formula was posted here a few years ago.  Length x (girth in inches squared) divided by 800=weight in pounds. i.e.  20 inch trout with 10 inch girth would figure out to 2000/ 800=2 1/2 pounds and so on. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

My son caught a Crappie last weekend that was 15 inches long and had a 5 1/2 inch girth.  Does anyone know how to approximate the weight using the length and girth? Hi, I have seen a few Crappie that big when I worked in a bait-n-tackle shop. A friend of mine caught one that big and had it mounted. It is a beautiful trophy. Where did you catch it? Bill Kiene

I have caught crappie this size and larger here in NC. (Jordan Lake, and Sharon Harris)   On Sunday I caught a 18" Crappie that weighed 1lb 12oz in Shelley Lake in Raleigh. Brian

Response:

this is the formula you mutiply the girth by itself then mutiply that figure by the length then divide that figure by 800 and you have the weight. example 5.5 x 5.5=30.25 then multiply 30.25 by the length 30.25×15=453.75 then divide that by 800  =.56 lbs this formula works with most saltwater fish.and it should work with freshwater fish also.

Response:

Question:

Wait a minute!  The Deschutes River is NOT near Portland, Oregon.   It’s gotta be a 3-4 hour drive, at least.  And it’s not that easy to fish from shore.  What about smaller streams on the slopes of Mt Hood or an hour or so west of Portland near Vernonia/Mist or down in Yamhill County (seem to remember some creeks in there near McMinnville – Yamhill River?)?  Anyway, if you consider total travel time, a 3-hour drive is fairly long way to go for an hour or two of fishing.  Where do busy Portlanders REALLY go?

I can make it from McMinnville to Maupin in less than three hours, less from portland. IMHO it is worth the drive, but it does make it a long day. There are some nice small streams out here in Yamhill County. They hold mostly small wild cutthroat and hatchery rainbow. They also get very low in summer and I usually stop fishing them by mid June. I would stay away from the main Yamhill River, unless you are into warmwater fish and don’t mind raw sewage. The upper forks of the Yamhill have small cutthroat and can be fun but nothing great. Tight Lines, Jay Whitworth

Response:

Wait a minute!  The Deschutes River is NOT near Portland, Oregon. It’s gotta be a 3-4 hour drive, at least.  And it’s not that easy to fish from shore.  What about smaller streams on the slopes of Mt Hood or an hour or so west of Portland near Vernonia/Mist or down in Yamhill County (seem to remember some creeks in there near McMinnville – Yamhill River?)?  Anyway, if you consider total travel time, a 3-hour drive is fairly long way to go for an hour or two of fishing.  Where do busy Portlanders REALLY go? — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

Seriously, people.  Hit the coastal streams.  The searun cutthroat are in and many streams have summer steelhead as a bonus.  But seriously, my son and I target the cutthroat.  They are the best fly rising fish in the state–yes we fish on top–and it is not a 3 hour drive.   And if the fish are not cooperating–there is the beach, maybe the jetties, and a whole smorgasbord of good cafes and restaurants. Paul

Response:

The Deschutes is not 3 hours from Portland. It usually takes me less than two hours to get to Maupin where there is aproximately 25-30 miles of outstanding bank fishing for steelhead and Trout. (And plenty of whitefish if you are nymphing.)

Response:

Wait a minute!  The Deschutes River is NOT near Portland, Oregon. It’s gotta be a 3-4 hour drive, at least.  And it’s not that easy to fish from shore.  What about smaller streams on the slopes of Mt Hood or an hour or so west of Portland near Vernonia/Mist or down in Yamhill County (seem to remember some creeks in there near McMinnville – Yamhill River?)?  Anyway, if you consider total travel time, a 3-hour drive is fairly long way to go for an hour or two of fishing.  Where do busy Portlanders REALLY go? — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

Busy Portlanders aren’t real fisherpeople.  Real fisherpeople go to the …… Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Response:

: Busy Portlanders aren’t real fisherpeople.  Real fisherpeople go to …. Anywhere in Idaho? (Except Leitheiser… he bailed out.  Don’t really blame him, it’s tough to come back to Oregon waters after getting spoiled by all those big Cutts.) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

I’ll be in the Portland, OR area the end of June – beginnig of July.  I’d appreciate suggestions on places to fish for 2 days (Sat and Sun).  I’ll have a car and don’t have to return to Portland Sat nite.. Thanks in advance for your help. Martin

Response:

I’ll be in the Portland, OR area the end of June – beginnig of July.  I’d appreciate suggestions on places to fish for 2 days (Sat and Sun).  I’ll have a car and don’t have to return to Portland Sat nite.. Thanks in advance for your help. Martin You may want to try the coastal streams–a lot closer than the Deschutes

and the searun cutthroats are the most wonderful fly rod fish you can find.  A friend of mine is a guide.  If you want to, call Glenn Young at (503) 642-4570. A secret–these fish are active surface takers!!!!! Let me know if you go and how you do. Paul

Response:

The Deschutes River – where else.  Call Kaufmann’s Streamborn in Portland for information on the Deschutes and guides (if you want or need one).

Response:

Wait a minute!  The Deschutes River is NOT near Portland, Oregon.   It’s gotta be a 3-4 hour drive, at least.  And it’s not that easy to fish from shore.  What about smaller streams on the slopes of Mt Hood or an hour or so west of Portland near Vernonia/Mist or down in Yamhill County (seem to remember some creeks in there near McMinnville – Yamhill River?)?  Anyway, if you consider total travel time, a 3-hour drive is fairly long way to go for an hour or two of fishing.  Where do busy Portlanders REALLY go? — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

Response:

writes: Wait a minute!  The Deschutes River is NOT near Portland, Oregon.   It’s gotta be a 3-4 hour drive, at least.  And it’s not that easy to fish from shore.

Whoa!  The Deschutes is about 100 miles from Portland via very good freeways.  This makes it about an hour and a half to an hour and three quarters travel time.  As for fishing from shore, you can’t legally fish from a boat unless you are disabled amd have the proper permits.  I’ll agree that you do have to wade it to flyfish, but that’s true of most any stream!

Response:

Question:

I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage?

I use a custom built rod using a GLoomis IMX 9.5′/9wt 2pc blank (model FR1149, if I remember correctly). This is a cannon of a rod and is able to punch soggy 2/0 flies into the typical New England ocean winds with aplomb, and fight the big guys to the beach. I’ve landed some good-size bluefish (14~15 lbs) against an outgoing tide at the mouth of the Merrimack with this rod. It casts more like a 10wt than a 9 so I’ve overloaded it by one line size, and I’ve used a Teeny T500 (the ultimate depth charge) on it with no surprises. If you have the forearm for it, I highly recommend a similar rod for grownup blues and stripers… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Try Scott, they make a beautiful rod to cast

Response:

Ken Lindsay Fly Fishing Online http://www.flyfishing-online.com

Ken: Your Web page is dysfunctional; it apparently needs a little virtual therapy, or perhaps some head cement. I have a little GL3– a 78" for 3, but prefer my Loomis IMX rods for the bigger rivers, longer casts and heavier winds.

Response:

I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage? Thanks. David

Response:

Winston… it’s the only rod.  See other’s comments in "What do you think of Winston Rods" subject messages Karl the Bass

Response:

Try the Loomis GLX series. They are really powerful. Another rod   to try would be the Redingtons. THe price is considerably lower   than the big boys and they have super actions. Good Luck, Ken Lindsay Fly Fishing Online http://www.flyfishing-online.com

Response:

I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage? Thanks. David

You should take a good look at Powell Rods. They are very high quality and a goof bargan for the quality.

Response:

I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage?

Loomis makes some great rods.  Both the GLX (high end) and GL3 ( mid range) are good values fo rthe money.  The GL3 is the fastest rod I know of in the 200-250 price range.                  /                 /                   John Woodling                /                    Sacramento, CA                   <     <

Response:

I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage? Thanks. David

I like the J.K. Fisher GT40 9/10, very powerful. My friend’s Scott Heli Ply seems real nice too. Fin Nor is selling rods under their name built on GT40 blanks too. Neither of these rods are cheap, but they’re both fine sticks.                                                         john cloyd

Response:

I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage? Thanks. David

One of the best  rods for the money is a ST Croix Legend. They are made in Wis. and have a lifetime warrantee.  The list price for a  9′ 8/9 wt is $210.  IM-6 type  42,000,000 modulus.

Response:

Question:

Does anybody have any float tube puncture experiences to relate? Whilst toodling along on a lake the other day I started to think about what would happen if my tube suddenly sprung a leak.  A life preserver is an obvious answer, but over fleece jacket and fly vest? What happens when your chest waders fill with water? How difficult is it to exit the deflated tube and then remove clothing? etc. etc. etc….. Failing any practical advice as a result of this posting, I think its time to find a pool somewhere and experiment with various scenarios. Any suggestions? B.

Response:

Does anybody have any float tube puncture experiences to relate? Whilst toodling along on a lake the other day I started to think about what would happen if my tube suddenly sprung a leak.  A life preserver is an obvious answer, but over fleece jacket and fly vest? What happens when your chest waders fill with water? How difficult is it to exit the deflated tube and then remove clothing? etc. etc. etc…..

Float fishing without a life jacket is very ill advised (I started to say stupid, but decided to be nice instead).  With all the stuff you carry fly fishing you could go right to the bottom very easily.  Anybody carry extra spools, split shot, etc?  I don’t think waders are that much of a problem, since the water in them will be neutral boyancy, though I’ve not tried that. Try a better quality life jacket under your vest.  If you’re wearing a jacket anyway, it should not be that much of a problem.  Another solution is inflatable life jackets that have a CO2 cartridge in them. You can even buy fly vests with these built in.  And, I saw an integrated fly jacket/life jacket combination in a fly shop the other day which would be a good solution. One thing I wonder about is hyperthermia, though.  If you take a dip in a cold water pond in early spring or late fall, how long before you pass out?  I sure wouldn’t want to try it.  I would think waders would really help here, though, since they are somewhat like the wet suits divers wear. — | Dartmouth College                                  Home:  603-448-5677 | | 6211 Sudikoff Laboratory, Rm 108                                       | | Hanover, NH  03755                                                     |

Response:

Does anybody have any float tube puncture experiences to relate? Whilst toodling along on a lake the other day I started to think about what would happen if my tube suddenly sprung a leak.  A life preserver is an obvious answer, but over fleece jacket and fly vest? What happens when your chest waders fill with water? How difficult is it to exit the deflated tube and then remove clothing? etc. etc. etc….. Failing any practical advice as a result of this posting, I think its time to find a pool somewhere and experiment with various scenarios. Any suggestions? B.

While it has never happened to me, my thoughts on the subject is the backrest is an inflated bladder on my float tube, so if I suffered a puncture, kick like crazy for the shore, and when the tube is too deflated to support me anymore, free my feet from the tube, hug the backrest, and keep kicking. In my younger days I surfed in the Pacific Ocean, and I wore a neoprene wet suit. The wet suit was fairly thin (for ease of movement), I would estimate about the same thickness of a 2 or 3 mm wader. The wet suit was amazingly buoyant. Enough so that I would float at chin level with no effort. I think a neoprene chest wader would help a lot with floatation also. I have also seen a set of suspenders that inflates with a CO2 cartridge. Maybe if I couldn’t swim I would consider buying it. Darryl

Response:

<stuff deleted One thing I wonder about is hyperthermia, though.  If you take a dip

                                ^^ I rarely get hyperthermia unless I’m fishing too far down Hot Creek. HypOthermia, now that’s a problem in cold water. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist!) Sean Brennan

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Well, it happened to me tonight.  As I loaded my float tube, I noticed it was a bit low.  I stopped by the gas station on the way out, and filled the tube.  However, I did continue to wonder why it was low, so I did keep an eye on the tube level for a while.  Well my tube didn’t seem to be loosing air, so naturally my attention turned to the crappie and bass that were hitting tonite.  Long about dusk, I suddenly noticed the tube was getting low and -then- noticed the sound of a leak.  I wasn’t far off the bank, rarely am when fishing this local gravel pit, so I paddled over to the bank and got out.  No reason to panic, the loss of air was audible but fairly slow.  As I laid the tube in the back of mmy truck, I could still hear the leak. Altogether I had been out fishing at least 4 hours, I know because I was listening to the Broncos getting beat by the Jets, and the post game show. Sure glad the fish were biting, because the Broncs weren’t.  I suppose the radio headphones were the reason I couldn’t hear the leak. I have no clue why or how I got the puncture, probably was due to the tube being about 10 years old.  I think I’ll get a new one.  My tube is one that has a separate tube for a back rest, so in case of a rapid deflation, I might be able to stay afloat.   All things considered, I wouldn’t even consider wearing a life jacket not in the past and not in the future.  In some states, a life jacket is req’d, but I don’t think it is in CO.  This experience confirmed my belief that any small puncture will deflate very slowly, since the air pressure in a float tube is so low.  I would take a good swift slice with a knife to achieve a rapid failure, and that is not likely (at least in places where I fish . Tight Lines, Kevin

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