Question:

Uh…Dave? Better get another "moniker" Dave M is already taken–by me   The real Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have a look at http://www.ratfish.com/usual   According to Fran Betters who developed the USUAL it should be fished out as a dry and retreived as a wet using short but rapid retrieve. Red or orange thred must be used and keep the dubbing sparse. Good luck Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

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did the trout do this after a long drift by the dry, or (almost) immediately after the fly hit the water?  I would guess the latter, because that initial disturbance gets transmitted quite a long distance, and if the fish is keyed on that, then they will chase…

It was a fairly long drift. It was not as I placed the fly on the water. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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thanks!  nice description of patterns… Rob –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen. Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

did the trout do this after a long drift by the dry, or (almost) immediately after the fly hit the water?  I would guess the latter, because that initial disturbance gets transmitted quite a long distance, and if the fish is keyed on that, then they will chase… Just curious… — Rob

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A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen. Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat.

There are exceptions to most rules, and I too have found that now and then a trout will hunt down a floating dun or sedge;  it is generally the surface disturbance that alerts the trout to the remote  insect’s presence, and that is why we drag our sedges to provoke a response ~ the induced take.  You mention a parachute hopper; this fly is much more visible to a trout than a regular dry fly ~ parachuted flies have a greater portion of fly that is fished subsurface than that of standard hackled dries. During the E. danica hatch, it is surprising how many duns manage to inadvertantly evade a trout when the nymphal shuck  has just been removed. The trout usually go for the shuck in a violent rise, and the floating dun is left to make his leisurely escape.  I assume that  the trout saw the shuck a lot more clearly than the floating dun (as the shuck is subsurface), and went for that instead of the real bit of ephemeral protein. However,  given that the floating natural fly is apt to make good his airborne escape, the trout are thus less inclined to waste a journey to a morcel that may escape his jaws.  With a nymph such as the PT (which imitates the nymph in the later instars as opposed to a nymph in its hatching to dun phase) the trout knows that he has plenty of time to chase down and eat the hapless nymph:  the snack is more or less guaranteed (unless another trout gets to the nymph first)  and the journey after it is well worth it indeed.   That is why when fishing deep nymphs such as the PT, the takes are a lot less violent and there is very little water disturbance (boils & bulges) to alert the angler.  This is where the bite indicator, or my  preferred  greased leader comes into its own. The trout don’t really need to rush to the nymph, they merely cruise it down. I find that trout are more inclined to hunt the PT nymph down over the GRHE / rabbit fur nymph.  I reckon that this is due to the trout believing that the GRHE nymph is soon to hatch out and fly off, and so he is more cautious with distance  ,  but at closer distances the trout fairly whallops the GRHE, seemingly in great haste to secure his meal.  The hook holds of the two flies also seem to bear this theory out too,  as the PT is an apex of the jaw snagger, whereas the GRHE is a scissor snagger much like that of a dry fly.  I spy rises to my GRHEs by the disturbances in the water, or the golden flash as the trout rapidly turns after seizing the fly.  In reflected light and in  turbulent water, I use the greased leader to detect bites with the GRHE / rabbit fur nymph, as the other methods are more difficult to practice in these situations.  Obviously,  when the fly is less than 12 " deep,  the surface splash of the diving trout is enough to know when to lift the rod or pull in the line to set the hook. (for utter butchery on a stream you can use an E. danica nymph,  but the fun of using it is more or less inversely proportional to the number of fish that you catch whilst using it in late May) Regards, Michael.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This isn’t correct. The dryfly floating outside of the trout’s window will still indent the surface film and make an impression in the "mirrored" part of the trout’s field of view. Trout do recognise that food items do this and it is one of the most important factors to be considered when designing/tying dryflies. This is often what the trout will come to and then either take or refuse once the fly is in full view. The field of view for a trout to detect a nymph or a dryfly is virtually the same. I have had trout come over 12 feet for large terrestrials. It is also depth dependant in that the deeper the fish lies the larger its window of full view.

You are correct in the depth enlarging the window issue,  but I am am right in saying that the sunk fly is *vastly* more visible than the floating fly. I have done a lot of diving and snorkelling and have seen this effect for myself.

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Brian Nelson writes: Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

I’ve seen the same thing happen with Landlocked Salmon and Brookies.  I’ve had a Brookie swim forward three or so feet to take a size 20 Jail Bird floating midge. Dave

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This isn’t correct. The dryfly floating outside of the trout’s window will still indent the surface film and make an impression in the "mirrored" part of the trout’s field of view. Trout do recognise that food items do this and it is one of the most important factors to be considered when designing/tying dryflies. This is often what the trout will come to and then either take or refuse once the fly is in full view. The field of view for a trout to detect a nymph or a dryfly is virtually the same. I have had trout come over 12 feet for large terrestrials. It is also depth dependant in that the deeper the fish lies the larger its window of full view. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rob L writes: (snip) Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? This is a common occurence with land locked salmon.  After the drag free drift, the fly is left to swing down and around, then stripped back slowly. They will hit it on the swing (it’s moving pretty quickly), or on the retrieve. While fishing on a river in Maine from a boat, my grandson caught fish after fish on a Goddard Caddis dragged in the current.  Since I was netting his fish, I didn’t fish much.  <G I have also seen brook trout take a fly like this.  An emerger?  Bait fish struggling? The subsurface fly is a lot more visible to the trout than one floating on the surface.  With a dry fly, the trout’s window of observation is very limited due to the reflective nature of the surface of the water (it works both sides of the water too, and just as we see sky and so on reflected off the surface, the trout & other fish see reflected riverbed at angles beyond the refraction / reflection limit).  This aspect of visibility to the trout is one reason why I really like to use the nymph over the dry fly in a lot of places. A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen.  Parachute flies and Klinkhamers do manage to be seen better than most dryflies though,  and that is because part of the fly has managed to penetrate the surface tension and become more visible to the trout. Regards, Mike.

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Have a look at http://www.ratfish.com/usual   According to Fran Betters who developed the USUAL it should be fished out as a dry and retreived as a wet using short but rapid retrieve. Red or orange thred must be used and keep the dubbing sparse. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

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A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen.

Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows….. I’ll add a brown to the list, caught on a Royal Wulff, tho I confess it was more by accident than intent.

Oh, I’ve caught plenty of the others this way, but brookies definitely fall prey more often……probably because they’re easier anyway. I rarely use this method deliberately with the intent of catching more fish. Frankly, it isn’t the most interesting way to catch fish.  It is more often a matter of letting the fly dangle rather than reeling up all the line only to have to strip it off again when it’s my turn to fish.  This is especially true in those situations when the fish are feeding aggressively.  I’ve often found myself in situations where a partner will get a fish on while I’m still releasing one, and vice versa…..sometimes it isn’t worth the time to put the line back on the reel. Wolfgang

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I don’t have a Google link–but here’s the pattern:   Hook: Tiemco 100 or Daiichi 1100 or Mustad 94840   Size 12 to 22   Thread 8/0 Uni-thread  color Red; Orange; Light Cahill; Gray   Tail: Clump of snowshoe hare (from the heel of the foot)   Body: Snowshoe hare dubbing (thread color shows through when wet–plan accordingly)    Wing: Snowshoe Hare clump tied upright (Mayfly) or down-wing style (Caddis)   The only way to fish it "wrong" is to leave it in your flybox. Enjoy HINT: Use a "Usual" as your point fly–tie in 18 inches of flourocarbon at the bend of the hook–and hang a LaFontaine Deep Sparkle Pupa off it. Deadly effective.   Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. I’ve used this method successfully with dozens of patterns while watching a partner fish.  I typically just leave the bug in the water with a bunch of line out while watching.  Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows…..don’t really know about cutthroat. Wolfgang

well it’s officially in my "go to" list of techniques.  In my case last week, it did work on small browns…which are probably as aggressive as brookies in any event. I was swinging emergers successfully, and then saw a fish rising…switched to the EHC dry, missed a strike, then let it swing…it dove on the swing, and bang…fish on.  Did that for another half an hour or so successfully until I moved on. — Rob

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rob L writes: (snip) Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? This is a common occurence with land locked salmon.  After the drag free drift, the fly is left to swing down and around, then stripped back slowly.  They will hit it on the swing (it’s moving pretty quickly), or on the retrieve. While fishing on a river in Maine from a boat, my grandson caught fish after fish on a Goddard Caddis dragged in the current.  Since I was netting his fish, I didn’t fish much.  <G I have also seen brook trout take a fly like this.  An emerger?  Bait fish struggling?

The subsurface fly is a lot more visible to the trout than one floating on the surface.  With a dry fly, the trout’s window of observation is very limited due to the reflective nature of the surface of the water (it works both sides of the water too, and just as we see sky and so on reflected off the surface, the trout & other fish see reflected riverbed at angles beyond the refraction / reflection limit).  This aspect of visibility to the trout is one reason why I really like to use the nymph over the dry fly in a lot of places. A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen.  Parachute flies and Klinkhamers do manage to be seen better than most dryflies though,  and that is because part of the fly has managed to penetrate the surface tension and become more visible to the trout. Regards, Mike.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have a Google link–but here’s the pattern:  Hook: Tiemco 100 or Daiichi 1100 or Mustad 94840  Size 12 to 22  Thread 8/0 Uni-thread  color Red; Orange; Light Cahill; Gray  Tail: Clump of snowshoe hare (from the heel of the foot)  Body: Snowshoe hare dubbing (thread color shows through when wet–plan accordingly)   Wing: Snowshoe Hare clump tied upright (Mayfly) or down-wing style (Caddis) Try this: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/intermediate/part28.html Seems pretty easy, even to me. riverman

thanks to both for the pointer…definitely will try it. just tied up a couple of deep sparkle caddis pupa yesterday… now for "the usual" Rob

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I don’t have a Google link–but here’s the pattern:  Hook: Tiemco 100 or Daiichi 1100 or Mustad 94840  Size 12 to 22  Thread 8/0 Uni-thread  color Red; Orange; Light Cahill; Gray  Tail: Clump of snowshoe hare (from the heel of the foot)  Body: Snowshoe hare dubbing (thread color shows through when wet–plan accordingly)   Wing: Snowshoe Hare clump tied upright (Mayfly) or down-wing style (Caddis)

Try this: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/intermediate/part28.html Seems pretty easy, even to me. riverman

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Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid

Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

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I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great.

I’ve used this method successfully with dozens of patterns while watching a partner fish.  I typically just leave the bug in the water with a bunch of line out while watching.  Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows…..don’t really know about cutthroat. Wolfgang

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Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows…..

I’ll add a brown to the list, caught on a Royal Wulff, tho I confess it was more by accident than intent. Joe F.

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Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid

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Hi Rob, Maybe they were taking it for an emerging insect? caddis? Could be very hungry fish or just lots of bugs moving at this time of year? Sometimes a twitched or skated dry will would well too. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

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I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

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Rob L writes:

(snip) Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts?

This is a common occurence with land locked salmon.  After the drag free drift, the fly is left to swing down and around, then stripped back slowly.  They will hit it on the swing (it’s moving pretty quickly), or on the retrieve.  While fishing on a river in Maine from a boat, my grandson caught fish after fish on a Goddard Caddis dragged in the current.  Since I was netting his fish, I didn’t fish much.  <G I have also seen brook trout take a fly like this.  An emerger?  Bait fish struggling? Dave

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Casting across, mending the line as it swings and letting it hang for awhile is classic wet fly technique which you have just rediscovered. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

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I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Your dragging dry had become an emerger struggling to get to the surface (i.e. trout snack food.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, that’s a new one on me.  Could you post a recipe for the Pass Lake (here or on rofft)? I use standard dry fly hooks in sizes 16-10, with 12s and 14s being the most common..  Tie in a bit of mallard flank for the tail and snip to just behind the bend.  The body is fine chenille wrapped back and then forward to make it fat.  I usually use black, sometimes brown, but any color can be used.  Take two turns of brown hackle and then sweep them toward the back of the hook and tie down.  The wing is a heavy clump of white calf tail tied in on top and also swept back.  Calf tail is VERY slippery. It’s important to tie it in very firmly or it will pull out.

My copy of Flies: The Best 1000 gives the following recipe: hook: TMC 7999, Partidge M or P, size 8-12 thread: black 6/0 prewaxed tail: brown hackle fibers body: black Chenille hackle: brown hackle wing: white calftail They classify this as an Atlantic Salmon fly — something bogus to avoid spam)

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thanks a bunch All of the advice has been miles of help.  I’m fly fishing the entire 3 day weekend in central Oregon. I think the best casting lesson is given from another fisherman, and not from a book.  So I will try to find an amiable fisherman where I am fishing this weekend to give me the basics.  I know the the book basics – 10 and 2 o’clock, keep your wrist locked, etc.  But I think a 1-on-1 lesson with a seasoned fisherman would be priceless. thanks again, and tight lines to all -Max

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to fly fishing, and I have a couple of questions: Do you need to change a dry fly each time you catch a fish?  I heard that the fish saliva will cause the fly to sink. Is the fly dry or wet depending on how it is tied or how it is fished? If you are using a dry fly, and it sinks, is it now a wet fly? What are good cues to know whether or not to use a dry or wet fly?  ie. lake vs. stream, weather, type of fish, hatch, etc. When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20 casts) What are some good, general purpose wet and dry patterns? thanks a lot -Max

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They classify this as an Atlantic Salmon fly

I’ve only seen dressings for this fly in two sources over the years.  Both of them listed it as a streamer.  I’ve actually tied it as such and failed to catch anything on it.  I was first introduced to it by an excellent tier back when I was just beginning to get interested in fly fishing.  He tied it as a dry fly (as in my description) and I do it just as he did.  Considering how successful it’s been for me, I have always been surprised by how few people know the Pass Lake at all, regardless of how it’s dressed.  I’ve had a number of hundred fish days using this fly and it is very consistent fish catcher.  It has not been uncommon in my experience for fish to prefer it to whatever might be hatching at the moment.  Go figure.

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My experience is that selectivity to pattern is very uncommon.  As long as you have an appropriately sized fly, presented well, you get takes. Changing size is often important, changing pattern seldom is even during heavy hatches. The exceptions I’ve found to this is when fishing very calm water or with fish that are in heavily fished C&R waters (they can become hyper selective). Too many new anglers get wrapped up in finding the "right" fly rather than concentrating on the more important and more difficult aspect of reading water and making a good presentation. 90%+ of fish will respond to an appropriately sized fly presented correctly (Correctly is a VERY big subject) while 90%+ of fish will ignore a poorly presented fly even if it matches the hatch perfectly.   A little story I read in some magazine or book: There was a pod of notoriously difficult selectively surface feeding fish on a popular C&R river. These fish would consistently surface feed on the far bank under some overhanging branches. These fish were locally famous for being extremely difficult & selective. A number of patterns were designed especially for these fish. An angler would have success one day and catch one of these "tough" ones. Someone would have success on a new fly and there’d be an instant new "hot" pattern  This went on for several years with a multitude of patterns circulating around, but no one was able to achieve any consistent success. Then the discovery was made!  An energetic and smart angler made the long hike needed to cross the river and did some bushwhacking to get in position for a downstream cast directly above the feeding fish.  He clobbered them on a simple Elk Hair’s Caddis.  It seems that the fish were not so selective to pattern but where very selective to presentation.  An infrequent good drift could be made from the far bank, but the intervening currents made it very difficult. Thus the sporadic results with the new hot flies. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re fishing a Caddis, and BWO’s start to come off, and fish start hitting them, you’d be foolish not to change flies.  Even as a newbie. Similarly, if you’re sight fishing, and you present a fly properly to a feeding, unspooked fish, and it doesn’t respond, you should change. Period.  Of course, as a newbie, you may have trouble sorting out when you’ve met the criteria ("properly presented", "unspooked").  But hey, life is tough for newbies, so what else is new?  But the alternative of continuing to chuck your "one" fly at the beast isn’t all that attractive either. I do think that disciplined, careful changing of flies is a skill that can be learned by newbies, and is preferable to sticking with one fly no matter what happens.  For example, if you don’t know what they’re hitting, learning to fish a two nymph rig, and systematically changing one fly at a time when nothing happens is all to the good, imho.  If you want to keep one a hare’s ear all the time, by all means.  But changing the other systematically would likely improve results. Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I have always been surprised by how few people know the Pass Lake at all, regardless of how it’s dressed.  I’ve had a number of hundred fish days using this fly and it is very consistent fish catcher.  It has not been uncommon in my experience for fish to prefer it to whatever might be hatching at the moment.  Go figure.

Thanks Wolfgang.  I happen to have the materials handy so I’ll tie up a few tonight – never hurts to try something new.  A wooly worm with a calftail wing basically.  If my local trout don’t care for it, I’m sure the pumpkinseeds will.  Fishing it like you do, trapped in the film, is probably a good imitator of a variety of emergers. Regards, Stan

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When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20 casts)

My advice to a beginner is to not give in to the temptation of switching flies very often.  Learn how to present a nymph and a dry properly, at the correct depth, in the right spots etc.  The "right" fly presented poorly is much worse than the "wrong" fly presented well and in the right place. Presentation is the skill that makes a good fly fisherman who can be successful on varied waters and conditions. IMHO this is the skill a beginner should concentrate on. Once you learn where the fish are most likely to be and how to present a fly in the correct manner and at the right depth, selecting the "right" fly may increase your catch. Without presentation skills, it doesn’t matter much which fly you’re using. I’d suggest using an all around dry and nymph to start.  A 16 Elk Hair Caddis and a 14 Hare’s Ear area good choice for Western waters. Willi

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0] : I’m new to fly fishing, and I have a couple of questions: : Do you need to change a dry fly each time you catch a fish?  I heard that : the fish saliva will cause the fly to sink. : Is the fly dry or wet depending on how it is tied or how it is fished? : If you are using a dry fly, and it sinks, is it now a wet fly? : What are good cues to know whether or not to use a dry or wet fly?  ie. lake : vs. stream, weather, type of fish, hatch, etc. : When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20 casts) : What are some good, general purpose wet and dry patterns? : thanks a lot : -Max I will add something to the other answers you have gotten to your questions. I find that most of the time I can clean the fish slime off a dry fly by flicking it hard against the water on a short line a few times, then a couple of false casts to dry it, and then the next cast is to a fish–all without having to touch the fly after I have released the fish. Obviously don’t flick it near the spot where you are going fish it next. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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My advice to a beginner is to not give in to the temptation of switching flies very often. I’d suggest using an all around dry and nymph to start.  A 16 Elk Hair Caddis and a 14 Hare’s Ear area good choice for Western waters.

Willi, Like anything else, it’s a matter of everything in moderation, including moderation. If you’re fishing a Caddis, and BWO’s start to come off, and fish start hitting them, you’d be foolish not to change flies.  Even as a newbie. Similarly, if you’re sight fishing, and you present a fly properly to a feeding, unspooked fish, and it doesn’t respond, you should change. Period.  Of course, as a newbie, you may have trouble sorting out when you’ve met the criteria ("properly presented", "unspooked").  But hey, life is tough for newbies, so what else is new?  But the alternative of continuing to chuck your "one" fly at the beast isn’t all that attractive either. I do think that disciplined, careful changing of flies is a skill that can be learned by newbies, and is preferable to sticking with one fly no matter what happens.  For example, if you don’t know what they’re hitting, learning to fish a two nymph rig, and systematically changing one fly at a time when nothing happens is all to the good, imho.  If you want to keep one a hare’s ear all the time, by all means.  But changing the other systematically would likely improve results. Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, Do you need to change a dry fly each time you catch a fish?  I heard that the fish saliva will cause the fly to sink.

I didn’t think that fish salivate. Shows ya what I know. At any rate, I don’t change the fly. Some people will re-tie the knot after every fish, but I don’t even do that. Is the fly dry or wet depending on how it is tied or how it is fished?

Both. Usually, most people think that the key is how the fly is tied, but I personally consider a dry that sinks to be a wet fly. (However, it’s rare that wet flies float, since they’re often weighted) If you are using a dry fly, and it sinks, is it now a wet fly?

Not necessarily. You just need to gink it. I would say that it is, but I’d bet that I’m in the minority. What are good cues to know whether or not to use a dry or wet fly?  ie. lake vs. stream, weather, type of fish, hatch, etc.

If there’s a hatch and fish are feeding at the surface, then I’d use a dry. Otherwise, I might start with some dry search pattern, but I’d probably move on to nymphs or streamers. When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20 casts)

After an hour or so with no action. But that depends. It’s easy for me to tie on the right fly and then screw everything else up. What are some good, general purpose wet and dry patterns?

My own do-everything dry patterns are the Adams, Royal Coachman, a hopper pattern, and an Elk Hair Caddis. I also carry Hare’s Ear and Prince Nymphs, and Wooly Bugger, or some sort of Muddler streamer. If I’m on warm water, I’ll add cork poppers in various colors. All told, those make up probably 95% of all of the fishing that I do. But then, there are much better fishermen than I in this newsgroup Tight Lines! —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBN3vW/ckBcsCVVLK5AQH5mQP/bzO6lYiF4+s9UBS0y7+cktA3xMLs7RMJ Ooi4q1H+d4ELDsk9K3VObnsGGmZM76cB2DnnXAA2L85wBCPP8lplKURnxDjw6JVN h+whcgF4olt3U44TBEYLay38UFT4nfmr9aZhRo5mV/NSLkJOrpjGze2ltZfTwdqp chR+N3TfgYE= =8KRl —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, B.S. | http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "Living with a dog is easy-like living with an idealist  is easy." -H.L. Mencken

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Max: You have received good advise from all, butIi would like to add one fly that I do not leave home without that appears to have been forgotten by all.That is a Clouser minnow. My most productive one is very sparsely tied chartreuse over white and tied with bead chain eyes. Big Dale

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Max: You have received good advise from all, butIi would like to add one fly that I do not leave home without that appears to have been forgotten by all.That is a Clouser minnow. My most productive one is very sparsely tied chartreuse over white and tied with bead chain eyes.

Hey Dale, my own personal "Don’t leave home without it" is the Pass Lake.  Never understood why this bug isn’t more popular.  It’s somewhat infuriating to use because it always sinks when I want it to float and always floats when I want it to sink, but it catches lots of fish either way.  I used to do a lot of fishing with a partner.  We would take turns.  One would fish while the other watched and critiqued.  When a fish was hooked we’d change places.  While waiting my turn to fish I would simply let my bug dangle downstream.  This turned out to be an incredibly effective technique with the Pass Lake; many hundreds of fish caught this way!  The Pass Lake, though it resembles nothing I have ever seen on this Earth is very popular with trout, and bluegills just can’t leave the damned thing alone!

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Hey Dale, my own personal "Don’t leave home without it" is the Pass

Lake. <dot dot dot OK, that’s a new one on me.  Could you post a recipe for the Pass Lake (here or on rofft)? My personal favorites are the zug bug and the prince nymph – don’t know why these are so effective – maybe it’s the peacock herl.  Caught over 100 panfish plus a goodly number of bass on those during the past week.  I ran out of both and need to tie more tonight… –Stan

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OK, that’s a new one on me.  Could you post a recipe for the Pass Lake (here or on rofft)?

I use standard dry fly hooks in sizes 16-10, with 12s and 14s being the most common..  Tie in a bit of mallard flank for the tail and snip to just behind the bend.  The body is fine chenille wrapped back and then forward to make it fat.  I usually use black, sometimes brown, but any color can be used.  Take two turns of brown hackle and then sweep them toward the back of the hook and tie down.  The wing is a heavy clump of white calf tail tied in on top and also swept back.  Calf tail is VERY slippery. It’s important to tie it in very firmly or it will pull out. This fly often rides with the body submerged because of the chenille’s propensity to absorb water, and the wing on the surface.  I suspect it is the fat body just below the surface that makes it attractive to fish despite the fact that it doesn’t really resemble anything that lives in the water.  A liberal application of Albolene helps keep the wing on top. However, as I stated in my original post this one often sinks anyway.  The only real problem with this is that the fly is then difficult to see in fast or foamy water.  It will catch fish anyway.  It can be fish as a dry, a wet, or an emerger.  I’ve never tried weighting it and using as a nymph but I suspect that would work too. TL!

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Do you need to change a dry fly each time you catch a fish?  I heard that

Most people try to use flies made of materials that will dry by false-casting:  then you do not need to change the fly after it gets sodden.  Method #2 is to waterproof your flies: there are plenty of formulae or commercial products. Is the fly dry or wet depending on how it is tied or how it is fished? If you are using a dry fly, and it sinks, is it now a wet fly?

Old (English) theory:  yes:  retrieve and change it. New (American) practice: no:  just carry on fishing. What are good cues to know whether or not to use a dry or wet fly?  ie. lake vs. stream, weather, type of fish, hatch, etc.

Yes, all of the above.  In practice, when no fish are visible, most anglers tie on a known "attractor" to get fish to show themselves. E.g. Henryville Special (dry caddis) is good for trout, Cockatouche (streamer, sunk) for bass. When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20 casts)

1.  Choice #1 is between the same fly in a different place and a different fly in the same place. 2.  When you have not yet seen any fish, and if the wading is not too daunting, 4 or 5 casts is enough — and then you move on to cover more water. 3.  It is different if you have seen a fish, e.g. noticed one feeding to a hatch, or got an unsuccessful strike in pocket water.  You should then try 10 or 20 different variations (fly or placement) — indefinitely so long as you do not scare the fish away. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Max….buddy…..you’ve got a LOT of reading to do…. Pick up a copy of Curtis Creek Manifesto (no, not a predecessor to the Unabombers Manifesto!!)…this is a humorous but highly informative book about beginning to Flyfish, a good book for folks that are getting "hooked"….yes, an intentional pun… If you have fished at all before, you probably know some about reading the water… knowing how the water moves, where "lies" are (besides those coming from fishermen’s mouths) and what effect current has on fish.  If not, take a look at a used bookstore for a copy of Ray Ovinton’s "Tactics on Trout"…. it’s a great overview book and can usually be picked up in a late printing used for around $10….another EXCELLENT book on the subject is Ray Bergman’s "Trout"…but it may be a bit more expensive. If you know folks that flyfish, go with them….but leave your rod behind on the first trip and observe closely…ask alot of questions like "why did you do that?" and "why did you cast there?" flyfishermen love to talk about their sport and will be good teachers, but the best classroom is a stream or lake….it’s real toigh to describe how things work away from the water. To learn more about the insects, what they look like and what flies approximate that look, get a copy of Hughes and Haefle’s "Western Hatch Guide" or Art Flick’s "Streamside Guide" …. H&H’s book has a wider range of information, especially for Western US waters….but Flick’s has better photos. Don’t buy flies until you know what types of insects to expect where you’re going to fish….it will help you decide what may work for you and what sizes.  There are some standard pattterns that will work almost anywhere at some point in time, like ….. Dries (there’s a range of colors for all of them..even the Adams….grey, olive, tan, etc.) Adams Elk Hair Caddis Stimulator Sparkle Dun Comparadun Wulffs Royals Trudes Cahills Hendricksons Humpys Mosquitos Nymphs Golden and Brown Stones Pheasant Tails Grey Goose Fox Squirrel Fledermaus APs Prince Zugs Hare’s Ear Wets Cahills Leadwing Coachman Hare’s Ear Professor Trout Fin Picket Pin Wooly Worms Streamers and larger wets Ghosts Mickey Finn Daces Thunder Creeks Wooly Buggers Leeches Matukas Zonkers Terrestrials Hoppers Crickets Beetles Inchworms Caterpilars Ants Mice Best of luck and welcome to the lunacy known as flyfishing….I’m sure your next questions will involve FLYTYING  :) Larry #:)#

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to fly fishing, and I have a couple of questions: Do you need to change a dry fly each time you catch a fish?  I heard that the fish saliva will cause the fly to sink. Is the fly dry or wet depending on how it is tied or how it is fished? If you are using a dry fly, and it sinks, is it now a wet fly? What are good cues to know whether or not to use a dry or wet fly? ie. lake vs. stream, weather, type of fish, hatch, etc. When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20 casts) What are some good, general purpose wet and dry patterns? thanks a lot -Max

Max, Unfortunately, the answers to most of these questions are not clear- cut.  They must begin with "depends".  A dry fly floats because it does not break the miscus or surface tension of the water it lays on.  I just walked in from fishing a Giant Yellow Mayfly for Bluegill.  I caught 8 large fish in 25 minutes and did not change flys (on my lunch 1/2 hour).  The fly was Ginked before hand and had no trouble staying afloat.  Some flys do not float as well.  Throw it back on the water and see if it sinks.  If it dies, dry it and re-treat it.  If it still sinks, tie on a new one.  I usually carry 3 of each pattern I expect to use because of losses to trees and the need to change out after several fish.  Drys are tied differently from wets in most instances. Watch for feeding fish and go dry or wet depending on what you see.  Fish feed primarily under water so that should be a clue. For fly selection, again, it "depends".  Species, local hatch/baitfish matches, water, etc.  For Trout make sure you have Royal Coachman wet and dry, Royal Wolf wet and dry, Elk Hair Caddis dry and nymph, Yellow Humpy dry, Mad Tom streamer, Grey Ghost streamer, Adams dry, Light Cahill dry, Trico dry, Blue Quill dry, Quill Gordon dry, and Hare’s Ear Bead Head nymph. Have all these flys in sizes 16 to 20 and add size 22 for Tricos. For Smallmouth add black popper, blue popper, Mad Tom streamer, and Zonker streamer.  Have these in sizes 2, 4 and 6.  For Bluegill add yellow popper with legs in size 6 and Crystal fly in silver and/or gold in size 6. Now, you wanna talk saltwater or salmon or other species?  There are specialists here for all of these. Just ask! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20

casts) Max: Mike Conner and others have given you some great responses.  I’ll focus only on this question of when to switch flies. I know, for myself, as I’ve gotten more experienced, I tend to change flies MORE not less. This is partly because I have more confidence in my ability to read water and present a fly.  Ergo, if fish aren’t taking, it’s time to change. There’s no hard and fast rule, as others have pointed out.  If you can see the fish, present the fly where the fish can definitely see it, in it’s feeding lane, and there’s no reponse, that’s usually a good indication to change.  In these cases, you might change after only 1 or 2 casts. If you’re fishing blind, the lack of response from "fishy" spots, lethargic takes, refusals, etc. are indications it’s time to change. Also, if you’re fishing an attractor or some other pattern based on guess or history, and then you see another type of fly hatching, that’s a prescription to change instantly to match the hatch. If fish are rising, and you see swirls, watch carefully to see if the mouth or the back of the fish is causing the swirl.  If the latter, it’s an indication the fish are taking an emerger.  You’d then want to switch immediately to a wet fly, nymph, or emerger pattern. Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I’m new to fly fishing, and I have a couple of questions: Do you need to change a dry fly each time you catch a fish?  I heard that the fish saliva will cause the fly to sink.

No, you don’t generally need to change a fly each time you catch a fish unless the fly is damaged.   Dry flies (so named because they float on the surface) depend on the surface tension of the water supporting the barbs of the hackle feathers.   Fish saliva (aka slime) will coat these feathers and prevent them from floating as designed.   Rinse off the fly, dry it (crystals, blow on it, false casting, etc.) and it’s good for another fish. Is the fly dry or wet depending on how it is tied or how it is fished?

The terminology generally refers to how it is tied, that is, how it is designed to be fished.   There are always, of course, exceptions.   A dry can easily be fished wet, but the reverse is unlikely. If you are using a dry fly, and it sinks, is it now a wet fly?

No, it is a sunken dry fly. What are good cues to know whether or not to use a dry or wet fly?  ie. lake vs. stream, weather, type of fish, hatch, etc.

That’s a lot of question to answer here.   In broad, maybe obvious terms, use a fly that matches what the fish are eating.   If they’re sipping insects off the surface, use a dry.   If you see them taking nymphs off the bottom, use a nymph.   If you can’t see fish at all, try "searching" with a streamer or attractor pattern in some likely holding spots.   There are dozens of books that can fill in the blanks on this.   I have and like "Prospecting for Trout" by Tom Rosenbauer (my only Orvis posession); but I have no doubt that others also have their favorites. When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20 casts)

There’s no hard and fast rule for me.   I change when I’ve lost confidence that what I’m using is right.   Even if a trout takes a good look at my fly and refuses it, I could be doing a half dozen other things wrong but still have the right fly.   If you’re sure you have no drag, the leader is invisible, the presentation is perfect and the fish hasn’t been spooked; but he still won’t take it, maybe it’s time to consider that the fly may be wrong.   As often as not though, I can’t blame the fly. What are some good, general purpose wet and dry patterns?

It really depends on where you fish and the common insects found there.   A few "universal" patters seem to be Hendrickson, Adams, and Royal Wulff dries, Hare’s Ear and Pheasant Tail nymphs, Woolly Buggers and Muddler Minnow streamers.   Many more to follow from others. Joe F.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to fly fishing, and I have a couple of questions: Do you need to change a dry fly each time you catch a fish?  I heard that the fish saliva will cause the fly to sink. Is the fly dry or wet depending on how it is tied or how it is fished? If you are using a dry fly, and it sinks, is it now a wet fly? What are good cues to know whether or not to use a dry or wet fly?  ie. lake vs. stream, weather, type of fish, hatch, etc. When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20 casts) What are some good, general purpose wet and dry patterns? thanks a lot -Max

Hi Max, You do not need to change the fly after every fish, only if it is slimed up or soaked through( Dry flies ). Fish slime will cause a dry fly to sink, and it must then be cleaned dried and re-dressed to get it to float again.  For wet flies this is not a problem, just washing the slime off suffices, as the fly is designed to sink. Wet flies are tied basically to sink, and dry flies are tied basically to float.  You can use a dry fly as a wet fly if you want to however.  How you designate the fly really depends on how you fish it, although some flies are tied specifically to float using certain materials, and would be difficult to use properly as wet flies. The same goes for many wet flies which are tied specifically to sink, even using weight such as lead wire etc to achieve better sinking properties, it would not be possible to use such a fly as a dry fly of course. If fish are taking well on the surface and you can match the hatch, then it is a good idea, and a lot of fun to fish dry flies.  If there is no obvious hatch and no or very few rises, then you will probably have more success with wet flies. There are no hard and fast rules for this, you can fish wet or dry flies whichever you prefer at the time. If you know that your fly is a good imitation, and it is working OK then there is no need to change it at all.  When to change is a matter of personal preference. if fish are rising and you are not catching any, then it may be a good idea to change to another pattern though. For a good list of general purpose patterns have a look at http://www.flyangleronline.com  and go to the beginners section from the main menu.   There is quite a lot of other info there which should help you as well. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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I’m new to fly fishing, and I have a couple of questions: Do you need to change a dry fly each time you catch a fish?  I heard that the fish saliva will cause the fly to sink. Is the fly dry or wet depending on how it is tied or how it is fished? If you are using a dry fly, and it sinks, is it now a wet fly? What are good cues to know whether or not to use a dry or wet fly?  ie. lake vs. stream, weather, type of fish, hatch, etc. When do you decide to switch flies?  ie. 4 casts with no strike(20 casts) What are some good, general purpose wet and dry patterns? thanks a lot -Max

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Question:

Chapter IX

Question:

Does anybody know of any good trout streams or rivers in central Michigan. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Looking to go camping in this area and would like to fly fishing. Thanks,                Tim

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Does anybody know of any good trout streams or rivers in central Michigan. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Looking to go camping in this area and would like to fly fishing.

Look for guidebooks by Huggler or Linseman or Hendrickson with "Michigan" in the title. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Does anybody know of any good trout streams or rivers in central Michigan. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Looking to go camping in this area and would like to fly fishing. Thanks,                Tim

How far are you from Grayling?  That seems to be the "CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE" for flyfishing around here.

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I’m located in South Bend, IN which would be 4-5 hours. Let me know more about Grayling fishing sites. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody know of any good trout streams or rivers in central Michigan. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Looking to go camping in this area and would like to fly fishing. Thanks,                Tim How far are you from Grayling?  That seems to be the "CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE" for flyfishing around here.

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Question:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott 5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of

rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Ross, The dealer probably said "Teton". John Johnson Lilburn,GA

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You probably mean Teton!  I have seen that one reccomended here before.   A small Lamson or STH would also be good. -Burton On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Ross Laurie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

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After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott 5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Hey Ross, This is just my 2 cents, but unless you are fishing for Salmon, Steelhead or any of the big saltwater species known for long runs, a reel is just a device to hold your line. Don’t waste your $$$ on an expensive reel to fish for trout. YMMV, Tom

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After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott 5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

 Hello Ross, I believe the reel he is speaking of is a Teton.  They make a nice reel.  Although, if you are looking for a real clean setup I would look no further than the new Ross Colorado.  The size you want is about $100 and the spools are about $50.  This reel only has a pawl to keep it from free spooling.  No Drag!  But really, is a drag that important on anything under a 6-7 weight rod.  I like the exposed rim. If you feel that you need a drag, maybe the cimmaron by ross would be a good bet.  It is lighter than the Teton. Enjoy Life, Paul Johnson,

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I would go with the Ross reels. Either the Cimarron ($170) or the Gunnison ($210). The gunnison has a great disc drag. Very good reels, beautiful finish and they are light. I would go with the extra $10. Otherwise, the Cimarron is great. No disc drag, otherwise, just as good and pretty. kmustad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

Response:

After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

It getting to be a real bitc… when $200 is a mid priced reel.  The good news is IMHO, that it tough to beat the Cortland LTD’s, which you can have for around $100, and xtra spools for under $40.  Fine disc drags, easy to clean, graphite construction. made in UK (sorry George) USA made look to Tetons, and Lamsons.  There are undoubtedly others but these I own and use. jg

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It getting to be a real bitc… when $200 is a mid priced reel.  

Can you believe it? The good news is IMHO, that it tough to beat the Cortland LTD’s,

They are a good reel. I use the size 80 for my DT5F and WF6F lines and it works just fine. Not as smooth as others, but it’s always been reliable for me. Room for 100 yards of 20lb backing (give or take). Mine is 5(?) years old and has seen lots of streamside rocks and boat bottoms and is still kicking. I’ve never been particularly careful with that reel and it’s never given me a problem. I sort of like the fact that I can bang it around a bit and not fret and fuss. If I had one of the Abel reels with the "Coral" finish, I think I’d be afraid to bring it outside. look to Tetons, and Lamsons.

I would also look at the Orvis Battenkill. I know some on the group tend to quiver at the O-word, but I do very much like their reels. If I had the cash, you can bet I’d have a CFO on my trout sticks. My Battenkill 8/9 Disc has served me well over the past few years since I bought it. The SA System 2L reels are nice and more trout sized than their bigger cousins. I like their smooth drag system (at least the few I’ve fondled in the shops). Bob Petti Endwell, NY

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After much debate, I finally went out and  purchased a new rod.  A Scott  5wt STS.  Why am I telling you all this?  Mostly because I need advice on which reel will be the best match for this rod.  Under $200.00.  The dealer I purchased the rod from has recomended a make I’ve never seem before T Tom (T Top?).  What do the sages (no pun inteneded) of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly have to suggest? Thank you in advance! Ross

I definitely don’t qualify as a sage (no pun inferred) but, I am ecstatic about an LL Bean Streamligh that I paid around $60.00 for.  It has a pawl drag without much oomph to it, but other than that, its extremely ligh weight and has a great feel to it.  On top of that, LL Bean has as good a return policy as you will ever find.  I am using a 4/5 on a 9 ft sage LL 4 wt.  Good Luck! Randy

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This is probably more information than most people would like to see, but its part of what I do for a living, and I’ve waded thru the physics of braided leaders, so here goes Current regulations regarding Country of Origin require all imported items to be marked with the country of origin.  This means that at it basic form, an article, described in the terms of the Harmonised Tariff Code Nomenclature, must delclare the country in which it first meets that definition as its origin. In order to change the origin must undergo "substantial transformation" which results in a new article with a new HTN classification.   For example, Steel exported from Canada to Taiwan is Canadian; ball bearings made from that steel are Taiwanese, and when shipped to England and used in the manufacture of a Hardy fly reel, they become part of the reel and now are a product of the UK.   Apparel and textile rules are different, and somewhat more complex.  The percentage of content rules generally apply to Lesser Developed Countries (LDC’s) in which a transformation is deeemed to have taken place if 35% of the value was added in the LDC. NAFTA for Canada and Mexico, rules are slighly different, but generally   the "substantial transformation" principle applies. and as always there are exceptions. jg

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Current regulations regarding Country of Origin require all imported items to be marked with the country of origin.  This means that at it basic form, an article, described in the terms of the Harmonised Tariff Code Nomenclature, must delclare the country in which it first meets that definition as its origin.

Hi J.J. It’s kind of like tying a woolly bugger on a Japanese hook, using Italian thread, American chenille and Chinese hackle/marabou. Thanks for the information. I sure didn’t think the post was too long. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

I will be in Anchorage 1 – 4 Aug 96.  I have two choices. First choice is floating down Lake Creek and fishing for Silvers.  Second choice is fishing the Keni. I am the only flyfisher in the bunch and my partners have no idea what type of fly I should be tying.  I need to start tying now so any suggestions on patterns and sizes would be apprecitated.   Thanks,         John

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I will be in Anchorage 1 – 4 Aug 96.  I have two choices. First choice is floating down Lake Creek and fishing for Silvers.  Second choice is fishing the Keni. I am the only flyfisher in the bunch and my partners have no idea what type of fly I should be tying.  I need to start tying now so any suggestions on patterns and sizes would be apprecitated.   Thanks,        John

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx John…. I have been up in Anchorage several time at an area called Bulchitna. It is a lake and stream  on a tributary (sp) of Lake creek.  August may be just a little ealy for silvers, but if you want some good fishing and if the silvers are up, I would go to Bulchitna.  You can get a cabin on the lake (rustic cabin), with the stream 50 yards behind the cabin.  Lots of Pinks, rainbows, grayling, and silver (when running), and pike in the lake.  Call Craig Ketchum of Ketchum Air Service.  I don’t have the number with me right now, but they have an 800 number which you can get from the 800 operator.  Just as for Ketchum Air Service in Anchorage. Ketchum has lots of places they will fly you out to.  You can fish from 5:30am til 10:30pm.  I know that for a fact.  Who eats when you can fish! Contact me for more info. Russ….

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I will be in Anchorage 1 – 4 Aug 96.  I have two choices. First choice is floating down Lake Creek and fishing for Silvers.  Second choice is fishing the Keni. I am the only flyfisher in the bunch and my partners have no idea what type of fly I should be tying.  I need to start tying now so any suggestions on patterns and sizes would be apprecitated.   Thanks,         John

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I will be in Anchorage 1 – 4 Aug 96.  I have two choices. First choice is floating down Lake Creek and fishing for Silvers.  Second choice is fishing the Keni. I am the only flyfisher in the bunch and my partners have no idea what type of fly I should be tying.  I need to start tying now so any suggestions on patterns and sizes would be apprecitated.   Thanks,        John

I’d tie wooly buggers, egg-sucking leeches, large egg patterns, and flashy streamers on 1/0 to #4 hooks.  The best all-around fly in Alaska is probably the egg sucking leech in purple/Iliamna pinky.   BTW you didn’t ask but: Lake Creek float trip = nice wilderness experience, some mild whitewater, (WW1 – WW3) and good fishing.  There will be some , grayling, RBTs and some tired Kings.  It might be a bit early for Silvers in the upper river but you should run into them in the lower part. Kenai = lots of people, (although the King Salmon crowds are gone) and Aug. 1 – 4 is too early for Kenai Silvers.  They hit their stride in early September.  May be some late run Reds around in the upper drainages, (albeit a bit tired.) R. Wood in Alaska

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Harrison, You may be right.  I believe I observed Jim and Kelly Watt on the tele one Sat. morning years ago.  For the life of me I can’t remember what ol’ Jimbo looks like BUT I have a vivid picture of Kelly, lips and all.   "Epoxylips", I need to remember that one.  Thank you for correcting me. Stephen Hiner

Stephen:         Just to set you straight, Jimbo is the one who laughs all the time – every nightclub comedians dream. His vocabulary also seems to consist of a single phrase, "oooooooh, NICE FISH". The other member of the dynamic duo squeals a lot and also has a limited vocabulary, i.e., "ooooooooh, THANK YOU FISH". Sometimes they get confused and say things like "THANK YOU, oooooooooh, NICE FISH", or even "NICE, ooooooh, YOU FISH THANK which isn’t in the script. Then they are difficult to tell apart. I think the double XX member of duo wears pink neoprenes, but I haven’t watched the show in years, so maybe I am mistaken.                                 Harrison

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A sure sign – the apocalypse is near!!!! Stephen Hiner

I’m not sure you meant "apocalypse". Didn’t you mean "epoxylips?"                                                 HRS

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Harrison, You may be right.  I believe I observed Jim and Kelly Watt on the tele one Sat. morning years ago.  For the life of me I can’t remember what ol’ Jimbo looks like BUT I have a vivid picture of Kelly, lips and all.  "Epoxylips", I need to remember that one.  Thank you for correcting me. Stephen Hiner

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Folks, most of you are probably aware of the Forum over at the Virtual Flyshop, (chat room, message boards, etc), but our ‘Experts’ board has been down for some time. We’re pleased to announce tha it is back up again, and we have some excellent fly fishermen willing to field your questions, including Gary LaFontaine, Jim Teeny, Jim & Kelly Watt, Dan Wright, Ian Martin and others. Please feel free to make use of this service! The URL for the VFS Forum is http://www.flyshop.com/Forum Thanks, — Mike Tucker-  The Virtual Flyshop Web: http://www.flyshop.com Phone: 970/225-6445

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A sure sign – the apocalypse is near!!!! Stephen Hiner

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Why not deal with a local fly shop. That way you get personal service and help the local economy. You never know what the loss of a local shop means until you lose one that has been undercut on prices by one of the large mail order chains. I dont own a shop but our area recently lost one and now every one realises what we had but have now lost. Jack

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This is gonna sound like a minor problem, given everything else we have to deal with. But ya know how a little something, if left to it’s own accord, tends to grow and gnaw at you, just bugging the crap out of you until you have to bitch to somebody. Last year around this time, I called L.L. Bean’s 800 number and asked for their fly fishing catalog. They said they would send it when it was done. Couple months later, nothing, so I called again. "Oh sure, send it right out." Few more months…nothing. So I filled out a form from a magazine. Nothing. Month later, sent my own postcard requesting the catalog. Month or so, nothing. Called again. "Gee, don’t know what the problem is. We’ll get one right out to you." Needless to say it’s one year on, and I’ve received every stinking catalog those people put out except for the one I want. At this point I’m disinclined to buy from them, I just want the catalog to chalk up a moral victory, and add it to my growing collection. Have I done something wrong? Am I not the L.L. Bean type and they know it? Have they checked my credit rating before sending the catalog? Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone know anybody at L.L. Bean with some weight? Thanks for letting me waste bandwidth. I do feel much better Roger Backlar

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Question:

I’m new to the Washington State area and would like to try my luck on some of the rivers and streams in the western half of the state.  Would any body mind dirrecting me to some decent rivers in this area, mind you, I don’t want to know your secret spot but maybe the location of some productive streams/rivers. Thank you in advance for any information you all might render.

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I am going to Cancun in mid april with my company, and I would like to know if there is any fly-fishing in the immediate area around Cancun.   If you know of anything or anyone please let me know.  Thank You.

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