Question:

So you’re saying their marketing guys times their product release just right???  ;-)  Impressive. On a more serious note, are the Simms Guide weights worth the money?  I’ve been using a pair of Reddingtons and a pair of (yeah, I know, gasp!) Orvis green mountain breathables for the past couple of years (both are essentially the same but the Reddingtons seem to be put together a little better).  Both have held up to a lot of hard fishing but they are both dying at the same time (I actually alternate use on a trip by trip basis).  How resistant are they to brambles and the occasional pricker bush?  My 2 pair are covered with shiny gobs of Sun Seal goo.  Actually that’s my only complaint considering they only cost $99 apiece. —

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| | cabelas | | OK. I’ve only used Patagonia and Simms, so I wouldn’t know. | | | Elitist. | | Here’s what really pisses me off. | | This year my Simms Guide Weight waders gave up the ghost. I’m not | complaining about that — they had three years of extremely hard use. | The main problem was that the neoprene feet blew out. Too much hiking, I | guess. | | So, I sent them back to Simms to be repaired, and in the meantime, so | I’d have waders to use, I bought another pair. Now I have a nearly new | pair and a reconditioned pair that are nearly as good as new. | | I figured I was all set, but then Simms came out with a totally | redesigned model with the features I’ve been begging them for — | built-in gravel guards, belt loops, and even a hand warmer! Arrrrggghhh! |

Response:

So you’re saying their marketing guys times their product release just right???  ;-)  Impressive.

Yep. They’re waiting for me to make my move.

Response:

What bugs me about the waders is that I now have about four of five years worth of waders, which I definitely WILL use, but the model I really want has just come out. It’s not like I’m going to run out and buy a new pair.

steve, when you see, touch, and wear a pair, my bet is you will. the new simms G3 waders are worth every penny ….. all 42,250 of em…. every dang cent. any one who is foolish enough to argue with that statement, well, he’s a fool and has blue balls to boot. the best wader on the planet, by far, hands down, is just a few weeks away… i pity the poor bastards wearing cab…., hodg…., orv…, redd……. and such…. whilst i’m fresh and warm as a muffin fresh out of the toaster, yer freezin yer jewels off… poor bastards. get real, get smart, buy simms. i ain’t cuttin’ no slack on this issue nor am i trying to drum up business…. experience. any one who believes otherwise, is daft, a communist, and can’t fish worth a fiddlers fuk, imho. Tight Lines, and MERRY CHRISTMAS all….. ;^) –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

<snipped ezflyfish spam <G Tight Lines, and MERRY CHRISTMAS all….. ;^)

Oh, SURE. Throw THAT in at the end! — TL, Tim Same to you, BTW.

Response:

  steve, when you see, touch, and wear a pair, my bet is you will. the new simms G3 waders are worth every penny ….. all 42,250 of em…. every dang cent. any one who is foolish enough to argue with that statement, well, he’s a fool and has blue balls to boot.

No way. I’m all wadered up for years to come. Fuck the built-in gravel guards, the belt loops, AND the frigging hand warmer.

Response:

Isn’t this reason enough to stay w/ the 101? Unless you want the newst-baddest toys, that is. In spite of all the bells & whistles on the newer models, my SRT’s are still giving me fine photos. And "upgrading" a collection of lenses from 24mm – 1250mm just to stay current w/ the newer bodies would cost a small fortune. And I’m reasonably sure I wouldn’t be actually shooting any better.

I have to say I’m shooting much better now.  It’s so much nicer to be able to: 1)   change ASA without losing film, 2)  Check a picture and see if it needs to be reshot. 3)  set the white balance without needing extra filters. 4)  Have an auto exposure that works right 99% of the time. 5)  Have a motor drive. 6)  Not have to wait for a processing lab. 7)  Have a 28-200 zoom that’s beautiful throughout it’s range. Though there are adapters for the old lenses, they don’t provide the new features to those lenses. The only disadvantage is that slides are tough and expensive to make. Chas

Response:

No way. I’m all wadered up for years to come. Fuck the built-in gravel guards, the belt loops, AND the frigging hand warmer.

i’m also wadered up steve…. *but*, a man has to field test new product, donchaknow. i’ve only worn a sample in the store as of now. it was very comfortable and i liked the way simms designed the legs…. they seem to be "fitted". in all honesty, the guide pant model will probably still be my wader of choice. the chicks dig ‘em. stay warm, –walt…… ps, you forgot to mention the built in Flip-out Tippet Tender Pocket, including a built-in retractor <g

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And you’re complaining about people buying *other* people presents for Christmas ! You missed the point, Greg. I must not have made myself clear. What I object to about Christmas presents is that so many of gifts are actually unwanted and unused. It’s the wastefulness that bothers me.  I understood you and was half-joking.  I agree with you re  Christmas presents & I get completely turned off every time  I wander out to a store at this time of the year.  At the same  time, I know that I have more than I need of various things.  When I really think about it, I don’t see much difference  between buying something that is "useless" as opposed to  buying something that I might actually use but I could easily  do without because I already own enough to do the same  thing without yet another one.

When you send your only pair of waders back to Simms for repair in the middle of the fishing season, expecting them to return in no less than several weeks, you NEED another pair. — 2003 ROFF calendar: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ROFF/calendar/2003/start.html

Response:

 I have a portfolio of excuses along similar lines  (well, if the backup to the backup breaks, I need  another one to cover it…), tho I have to admit  that yours sounds a bit more compellling  :-)

There are only so many things to do in Stanley when you aren’t gainfully employed, Greg. During fishing season, it’s fishing. During hunting season, it’s hunting. During skiing season, it’s skiing. Of course, there’s also drinking and carousing, but that takes place mostly in the evenings. I must confess, however, to buying a new pair of Simms lightweight boots (with removeable studs) when I bought my new waders — one of the best purchases I’ve ever made, even though, strictly speaking, they were unnecessary. — 2003 ROFF calendar: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ROFF/calendar/2003/start.html

Response:

I must confess, however, to buying a new pair of Simms lightweight boots (with removeable studs) when I bought my new waders — one of the best purchases I’ve ever made, even though, strictly speaking, they were unnecessary.

have you used the studs yet steve? if so, how do they grip? i’ve resisted installing the studs until PA, where they will be needed on those dastardly rocks. what i like about them is, well, they live up to their name… lightweight. wally, never met a unnecessary ff item <g

Response:

I must confess, however, to buying a new pair of Simms lightweight boots (with removeable studs) when I bought my new waders — one of the best purchases I’ve ever made, even though, strictly speaking, they were unnecessary. have you used the studs yet steve? if so, how do they grip?

Yes, I have. And yes, they do, but not as well as carbide studs. I removed them at the HF Clave so I wouldn’t mess up John Hightower’s beautiful self-made wooden drift boat. I’m hoping I can find them again. — 2003 ROFF calendar: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ROFF/calendar/2003/start.html

Response:

– I am looking at purchasing a Nikon N80 or a Canon Elan E7.   Any comments on which is better?  I am not trying to stir anything up..  I have posted to rec.photo 35mm but the newsgroup is not very active.  I have followed this newsgroup for a long time and know that many here are avid photographers here.  I have been to my local camera shop to look at the Nikon and ended up looking at the Canon as well. Both seem to be nice AF cameras.  Any other recommendations in this price range? Keith

Response:

The group you want to query is rec.photo.equ9ipment.35mm.  BUT, (and I mean BUT) before you post this question to that group go to Google and do a search for the N80 and E7.  This topic has been discussed in detail so posting the question will probably get a few posts that resemble flames. Personally I’ve been a Nikon guy for the last 20 years.  I upgraded from an FM to a N90s a few years ago.  Nikon recently end-of-life’d the N90 line but I’d recommend it over the N80.  The construction is metal vs plastic in the N80 and it has a few more bells and whistles (i.e. higher flash sync speeds).  But the N80 is still a great camera at the high end of the non-pro ranks.  Since it is not produced any longer you may be able to find one that has been marked down.  Nikon is still servicing them and the warrantee is pretty good. Check out www.bhphotvideo.com  - great mail order place with a great reputation.  I buy most of my stuff from them.  If you live in the area or find yourself in NYC check out their store on 9th and 34th.  It’s huge and stocked with helpful sales people (FYI – they close Friday at 1 PM and reopen on Sunday). —

| | | — | | I am looking at purchasing a Nikon N80 or a Canon Elan E7.   Any comments on | which is | better?  I am not trying to stir anything up..  I have posted to rec.photo | 35mm but the newsgroup is not very active.  I have followed this newsgroup | for a long time and know that many here are avid photographers here.  I have | been to my local | camera shop to look at the Nikon and ended up looking at the Canon as well. | Both seem to be nice AF cameras.  Any other recommendations in this price | range? | | Keith | | |

Response:

Sorry, fingers slipped – the group is rec.photo.equipment.35mm —

| | | — | | I am looking at purchasing a Nikon N80 or a Canon Elan E7.   Any comments on | which is | better?  I am not trying to stir anything up..  I have posted to rec.photo | 35mm but the newsgroup is not very active.  I have followed this newsgroup | for a long time and know that many here are avid photographers here.  I have | been to my local | camera shop to look at the Nikon and ended up looking at the Canon as well. | Both seem to be nice AF cameras.  Any other recommendations in this price | range? | | Keith | | |

Response:

The group you want to query is rec.photo.equ9ipment.35mm.  BUT, (and I mean BUT) before you post this question to that group go to Google and do a search for the N80 and E7.  This topic has been discussed in detail so posting the question will probably get a few posts that resemble flames.

What are the best breathable waders for the money? Does anyone have an opinion about the Cabela’s Three Forks 3wt? Is fluorocarbon worth it? What weight rod should I get? Is bobber fishing unethical? How about C&R? Do Eastern Claves have more camraderie than Western Claves? What is a Clave, anyway?

Response:

The group you want to query is rec.photo.equ9ipment.35mm.  BUT, (and I mean BUT) before you post this question to that group go to Google and do a search for the N80 and E7.  This topic has been discussed in detail so posting the question will probably get a few posts that resemble flames. What are the best breathable waders for the money? Does anyone have an opinion about the Cabela’s Three Forks 3wt? Is fluorocarbon worth it? What weight rod should I get? Is bobber fishing unethical? How about C&R? Do Eastern Claves have more camraderie than Western Claves? What is a Clave, anyway?

cabelas no no 4 yes and no see above definitely camaraderie backatcha, big fella — TL, Tim

Response:

What are the best breathable waders for the money? Does anyone have an opinion about the Cabela’s Three Forks 3wt? Is fluorocarbon worth it? What weight rod should I get? Is bobber fishing unethical? How about C&R? Do Eastern Claves have more camraderie than Western Claves? What is a Clave, anyway? cabelas

OK. I’ve only used Patagonia and Simms, so I wouldn’t know. no

Wrong. I do. So do quite a number of others. no

OK 4

5 yes and no

yes see above

see above definitely

Are you speaking from personal experience, or hearsay? camaraderie

OK

Response:

— I am looking at purchasing a Nikon N80 or a Canon Elan E7.   Any comments on which is better?

"Better" is perhaps in beholder’s eye. Both brands are of high repute; perhaps using criteria based on the sorts of potography you’ll do most would aid in selecting. Any quality 35mm SLR will give many years of service if treated well. (Happens I have 2 Minoltas which are 20+ years & going strong.) I don’t think you’d be disappointed in either the Nikon or the Canon. Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — Anything is possible but not everything is easy.   B. Gray

Response:

I am looking at purchasing a Nikon N80 or a Canon Elan E7.  

…snip… I’d consider what you’ll want when you go digital.  The lenses are interchangable on Nikon from their old stuff to the newest. I just bought a Nikon D100 digital, and I’m delighted with it.  My old camera is a Minolta SRT201 that’s nearly 30 years old and still works fine.   Since my old lenses are worthless on the newer Minoltas, there was no reason to stay with Minolta. Chas

Response:

 My old camera is a Minolta SRT201 that’s nearly 30 years old and still works fine. Since my old lenses are worthless on the newer Minoltas, there was no reason to stay with Minolta. Chas

Isn’t this reason enough to stay w/ the 101? Unless you want the newst-baddest toys, that is. In spite of all the bells & whistles on the newer models, my SRT’s are still giving me fine photos. And "upgrading" a collection of lenses from 24mm – 1250mm just to stay current w/ the newer bodies would cost a small fortune. And I’m reasonably sure I wouldn’t be actually shooting any better. Pete — Anything is possible but not everything is easy.   B. Gray

Response:

  My old camera is a Minolta SRT201 that’s nearly 30 years old and still works fine. Since my old lenses are worthless on the newer Minoltas,

An afterthought: there are adapters for some of the Rokkor lenses to allow them to be used on some Maxxum bodies. Pete — Anything is possible but not everything is easy.   B. Gray

Response:

cabelas OK. I’ve only used Patagonia and Simms, so I wouldn’t know.

Elitist. definitely Are you speaking from personal experience, or hearsay?

hearsay, absolutely camaraderie OK

YEA! I got one right! — TL, Tim and just in case,  :)  :)  and especially, ;-^)

Response:

cabelas OK. I’ve only used Patagonia and Simms, so I wouldn’t know. Elitist.

Here’s what really pisses me off. This year my Simms Guide Weight waders gave up the ghost. I’m not complaining about that — they had three years of extremely hard use. The main problem was that the neoprene feet blew out. Too much hiking, I guess. So, I sent them back to Simms to be repaired, and in the meantime, so I’d have waders to use, I bought another pair. Now I have a nearly new pair and a reconditioned pair that are nearly as good as new. I figured I was all set, but then Simms came out with a totally redesigned model with the features I’ve been begging them for — built-in gravel guards, belt loops, and even a hand warmer! Arrrrggghhh!

Response:

I figured I was all set, but then Simms came out with a totally redesigned model with the features I’ve been begging them for — built-in gravel guards, belt loops, and even a hand warmer!

Arrrrggghhh! If it will help, you can send a pair or two to me. Just trying to be helpful. . . — TL, Tim

Response:

 And you’re complaining about people buying *other* people  presents for Christmas !

You missed the point, Greg. I must not have made myself clear. What I object to about Christmas presents is that so many of gifts are actually unwanted and unused. It’s the wastefulness that bothers me. What bugs me about the waders is that I now have about four of five years worth of waders, which I definitely WILL use, but the model I really want has just come out. It’s not like I’m going to run out and buy a new pair.

Response:

Question:

Looks like this newsgroup have turned into rec.outdoor.fishing.fly.politics   There’s way too much politics and babal for my taste….in other words waste of time….It makes me wonder when I look at how often some people post here whether they actually fish. If ya got this much time to sit behind a computer and type out your political philosophy instead of fishing then you have a real problem.

Response:

Looks like this newsgroup have turned into rec.outdoor.fishing.fly.politics   There’s way too much politics and babal for my taste….in other words waste of time….It makes me wonder when I look at how often some people post here whether they actually fish.

We not only fish, but we travel often considerable distances to fish with each other. Do you have something to say about fishing? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Yet inexplicably, here you are, posting your non-fishing ideas. Looks like this newsgroup have turned into rec.outdoor.fishing.fly.politics   There’s way too much politics and babal for my taste….in other words waste of time….It makes me wonder when I look at how often some people post here whether they actually fish. If ya got this much time to sit behind a computer and type out your political philosophy instead of fishing then you have a real problem.

Regards, Jeff

Response:

Extremely kind of you to give us the benefit of your limitless wisdom, especially considering your lack of time, taken up as it is with all the important things in life. At first I thought I did not like the political threads, (I hate Armani as well, and Gucci sucks ), but then I realised that the people complaining about the political threads were the real time wasters. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Would anybody know any good places to go fly fishing in the western half of Maine.  If you could e-mail me any place at all it would be really appreciated.  Thanks…

 Hi Mark.  Bingham area is in Northwestern Maine.  We have many small remote ponds, terrific rivers including the Kennebec and the Dead Rivers, and Wyman Lake.  Check out www.pinegrovelodge.com!  Good luck fishing!

Response:

Hi Mike Hit the Rangeley Lakes Region. In fact give Ray Miller a shout at region and he’ll set you straight. One of his favorite streamers is a Blue Smelt casting streamer. He had me tie him a couple dozen last summer. http://www.kynd.com/~ronmcq/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would anybody know any good places to go fly fishing in the western half of Maine.  If you could e-mail me any place at all it would be really appreciated.  Thanks…

Response:

Would anybody know any good places to go fly fishing in the western half of Maine.  If you could e-mail me any place at all it would be really appreciated.  Thanks…

Response:

Mark, There is some terrific fly fishing in western Maine. My top picks in priority order are: 1. Rapid River 2. Big Magalloway river above lake Parmachene 3. Kennebago River 4. Rangeley River 5. Cupsuptic river Toss in a tripto Quimby pond and you have a great trip. tight lines, Gerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would anybody know any good places to go fly fishing in the western half of Maine.  If you could e-mail me any place at all it would be really appreciated.  Thanks…

Response:

Question:

I remember–some years ago–someone announcing a nearly comprehensive database of articles published in Fly Fisherman magazine…..anybody know who that was, or where such a database exists?       Also, is there a homepage for Fly Rod and Reel? Silvio Calabi? Fly Tackle Dealer? — /*  */

Response:

I remember–some years ago–someone announcing a nearly comprehensive database of articles published in Fly Fisherman magazine…..anybody know who that was, or where such a database exists?      Also, is there a homepage for Fly Rod and Reel? Silvio Calabi? Fly Tackle Dealer?

Try the below address.  The data base was set up by Don Phillips. http://www.flyfishing.com/search/ Mike Santangelo http://www.nwlink.com/~fishnet/

Response:

Question:

Well, I’m taking a break from putting up gear and getting caught up at work and thought I would give a quick run down on the trip.

Great trip report Larry thanks! BWCA has been on our "wish list" since college days eons ago….We are going to get there someday!!! sheila

Response:

BTW, let me recommend a couple peices of gear to you. The Outback Oven, we made Pizzas,biscuits, brownies etc. in these ovens all week. They are light and See, some of us Whitewater boaters do paddle flat water once in awhile. Although this was the first time I had paddled an aluminum canoe in 15 years. SYOTR or Lake Larry

        Great trip report Larry.I can still remember the first time I used an outback oven.It was on Isle Royale in a rather remote campsite.We told the hikers in the camp next to us to hold off on their dinner of dehydrated food because we were going to share our pizza when we cooked.Needless to say they thought we were kidding them.The look on their faces when we pulled out our food and started tossing dough was priceless.Now it’s a regular part of my camp kitchen.         Bill Oehl

Response:

<clip BWCA trip report See, some of us Whitewater boaters do paddle flat water once in awhile. Although this was the first time I had paddled an aluminum canoe in 15 years. SYOTR or Lake Larry

I love the Boundary Waters to.  (Quetico where you where)  I have made 8 tripe ranging from 10 – 20 days up there.  Every time has been great.  My last time I pawned my gear off on some friends in big touring canoes and took my WW K1.   I don’t remember the names but Lac la Croix has several very fun rapids and waterfalls.    One was a pretty large (30+ feet) drop with a lot of water going over from one lake into La Croix.  Not long after it on the right are two more rapids (Bottle ?)    If I am remembering the name correctly Bottle was not a waterfall but was a very heinous narrow rapid of at least 150 yards.  About 15 feet wide and as fast a rapid as I have seen.  I wish I remembered the names……   I guess that is an excuse to go pull out the old maps and pictures. Glad you had fun! Scott Bristow

Response:

Great trip report Larry thanks! BWCA has been on our "wish list" since college days eons ago….We are going to get there someday!!! Give it a try! And don’t let kids stop you. This is my second trip with children and every one had a great time.

It’s not the kids! Its the 36 hour drive with Pete only having 2 weeks of leave a year….of course I could leave him home! He is gotten quite good about supporting my outdoors habits……being an at home homeschooling mom definately has its advantages when it comes to traveling! btw your kid tripping tips are great…..we have used a similar strategies when canoe tripping with our gang…. sheila

Response:

Great trip report Larry thanks! BWCA has been on our "wish list" since college days eons ago….We are going to get there someday!!!

Give it a try! And don’t let kids stop you. This is my second trip with children and every one had a great time. A couple of tips for going with kids. Plan your route through smaller lakes with more frequent portages or allow for stops and side hikes along the bigger lakes. The kids didn’t mind portaging (I made mine carry their personal gear , including sleeping bags, as young as eight), but easily get bored on extented paddles in the lakes. There isn’t such a thing as kids portions in the Woods. Plan on full adult meals, take plenty of snacks(jerky and trail mixes are good, so is hard candy) and add 25% for pre teen boys! And take quick drying cloths. Larry

Response:

Great trip report Larry.I can still remember the first time I used an outback oven.It was on Isle Royale in a rather remote campsite.We told the hikers in the camp next to us to hold off on their dinner of dehydrated food because we were going to share our pizza when we cooked.Needless to say they thought we were kidding them.The look on their faces when we pulled out our food and started tossing dough was priceless.Now it’s a regular part of my camp kitchen.    Bill Oehl </PRE</HTML

We took regular pizza mixes (Chef Boyardee) and dried the sauce on a fruit rollup sheet on the food dryer. We had already dried ground beef, peppers, onions and mushrooms. Add a little pepperoni and dried cheese and you have Pizza Supreme in the Wilderness. Soak all your dried stuff before you use it (it will be ready by the time you prepare everything else.).One package will make enough for 4 to 5 pizzas in the Ovens, according to how thick you like your crust. Larry

Response:

Writes: I love the Boundary Waters to.  (Quetico where you where)  I have made 8 tripe ranging from 10 – 20 days up there.  Every time has been great.

While we entered from Quentico, the trip was an the American side of Lac la Croix.It was my first trip an the BWCA side, I think I like the campsites better than most in Quentico. My last time I pawned my gear off on some friends in big touring canoes and took my WW K1.   I don’t remember the names but Lac la Croix has several very fun rapids and waterfalls. One was a pretty large (30+ feet) drop with a lot of water going over from one lake into La Croix.  Not long after

It’s been a very low water year in the area, I didn’t really see anything that had enough water to scape down in my kayak, let alone a 18.5′ alumimun lake canoe! Didn’t get to some of the big entry rivers, though. I would like to try a touring kayak on some of large lakes. Less effected by wind and waves and definely faster and easier to paddle. Well, maybe next trip. SYOTR Larry

Response:

Well, I’m taking a break from putting up gear and getting caught up at work

and thought I would give a quick run down on the trip. Larry, Great rundown of your Lac La Croix trip! After months of planning, getting permits, and arranging shuttles and a boat (for me, I don’t trip enough to justify buying a tripping canoe), then a couple of weeks drying and repackaging food, planning menus, packing, then repacking and packing again to get everything for three people into packs that would fit into a  18.5′ canoe, my family and I took off after work, meeting my friend Darrell on the road in Indiana on the way to Crane Lake, Minnesota, USA. We had decided to drive straight though, a 1100 mile run for me( please kick me in the head if I decide to do that again). Well, after 20 hours on the road, we arrived at Crane Lake. We quickly loaded onto the shuttle boat and off again. After a quick stop at Canadian Customs, we unloaded and loaded onto a ancient school bus for the ride across Dawson Portage. Did you ever try to get 17′ tripping canoes in a bus? I’m not sure that it wouldn’t have been quicker to walk, the bus had to go that slow.

Our thoughts exactly when we went the same route a couple of years ago. We loaded onto another boat and headed to the Zup’s Fish Camp to pick up our permits. We had decided to take advantage of the fact that the Ontario side allowed motors and have them shuttle us down the lake before crossing back into Boundary Waters. Back into the boat and down to the far end of Lac la Croix.

I still maintain the motor restrictions on the U.S. side are ridiculous! Crossing that big of water in a canoe would take forever.  Most people opt to motor the Canadian side and paddle into the smaller lakes for their trips. Did you get the driver of the boat to swing by the Indian pictographs?  They are awesome! I grew up with the Zup family in Ely, MN.  Their family story is quite incredible, having fought the inclusion of their property on Crooked Lake as part of the Boundary Waters in the ’50s and ’60s.  They lost their fight, and that is why they moved their fishing camp to Canada. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lac la Croix is one of the larger border lakes in the BWCA. It’s about 30 miles  from one end to the other , with hundreds of miles of shoreline, bays and islands to explore and fish. After a couple of hours paddling, we decided to establish a  base camp at the head of Lady Boot Bay and then day trip out of there. I had been reluctant to try BWCA because of the requirement to use designated camp sites. I had always felt that this would take away the wilderness feel of the area. I found that I liked the sites, they are well chosen, clean and maintained. The pit latrines were well hidden and the female members of our party thought they were great. In many ways, the sites were in better condition than most of the camp sites I found in Quetico. Snip Tuesday started the changing weather. High winds kept us wind bound all day. Rested up and explored around the Camp. For the rest of the trip, the weather would be clear and 80 F one minute and raining and cold the next. Typical Laurentian Shield weather( they tell me they have nice weather for weeks at a time up here, but I think they just tell that to the tourist.)

Welcome to Minnesota!  One thing is for sure, if you don’t like the weather, wait a day.  You should try our winters!  A couple years ago we had -60 degrrees one Saturday, and one week later it was 40 degrees above zero, with rain! Snip Thursday had the same weather pattern, one minute nice, the next nasty. The rain and the wind picked up around noon. We decided that we had better head for camp, which envolved crossing a fairly large open water section. About 1/3 the way across, the wind picked up and it started to rain in sheets. It quickly producted a 2′ chop with the wind gusty up to 40 mph. A real dicey crossing!! My soon to be teenager and budding Whiterwater Kayaker was having a great time.

The big lakes can get pretty rough at times.  Luckily you had a good experience.  My daughter works at a local resort.  Recently she had a guest ask if there were any water parks close by.  I told her if she is ever asked that again to say ‘Yes, it’s called the Boundary Waters – nature’s water park!’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He thought this was big time fun ( he still thinks I’m a paddling God, and nothing will happen if I’m in the boat.). We all made it across safely and sit down for some hot coffee liberally braced with Brandy. Since the weather was so changable, decided to stay in camp and make Pizzas in our camp ovens. After 2 hours of cooking Pizzas, everyone had had enough and we settled back to watch the gulls eating the remains of our days catch. The Gulls had spotted were we left the remains of the fish we filletted soon after we arrived. They would fly by every couple of hours to see if we had left dinner yet. On Weds, a couple of Bald Eagles showed up, checking out what the Gulls were doing in the area. On this day, the gulls were very aggressive and attacked one of the eagles and run him off. Thursday, the Eagle didn’t run. The Gulls ignored him until he took off and made a low pass over the bay. You should have seen the Gulls take off!! The next pass, the Eagle flew low over the rocks and snagged the remains of a large Pike on the fly. This was all happening about 30 yards from where we were sitting!! It was better that National Geographic!!

Watching the gulls, bald eagles and ravens can be a real treat! Friday we packed up and paddled back to the Canadian side to be picked up by our shuttle. A quick shower and a great dinner at Zup’s and then back to Crane Lake on Saturday.

We were totally amazed with the wonderful meals prepared at Zup’s fishing camp.  As good as any fine restaurant. For a totally different experience, try Crane Lake in the winter.  We have stayed at one of the resorts on Crane Lake and snowmobiled all over Voyageurs National Park.  Absolutely fantastic!  Lunch at Kettle Falls Hotel, where you can look south and see Canada!  We already have our reservations for next February!  Can hardly wait! Nan

Response:

I still maintain the motor restrictions on the U.S. side are ridiculous! Crossing that big of water in a canoe would take forever.  Most people opt to motor the Canadian side and paddle into the smaller lakes for their trips

True, it is a big lake. but the American side is cut up with islands, peninsulas and bays that offer fairly protected paddling. The no motor restriction is fairly often violated in the passage south of Coleman Island anyway. It would be a great place for a ocean touring kayak. Did you get the driver of the boat to swing by the Indian pictographs? They are awesome!

Yes, but my photo’s didn’t show it as well as you could see it there. Any suggestions? Welcome to Minnesota!  One thing is for sure, if you don’t like the weather, wait a day.  You should try our winters!  A couple years ago we had -60 degrrees one Saturday, and one week later it was 40 degrees above zero, with rain!

No thanks. I was born in the Dakota’s , Artic Hell on the High Plains, which is why I love the southeast USA. I can paddle all winter!! You all talk funny up there anyway :^). The big lakes can get pretty rough at times.  Luckily you had a good experience.  My daughter works at a local resort.  Recently she had a guest ask if there were any water parks close by.  I told her if she is ever asked that again to say ‘Yes, it’s called the Boundary Waters – nature’s water park!’

A calm trip compared to last trip. 6 out of  8 days with high winds, including 3 we should have stayed in camp. And it rained those 6 days too! We were totally amazed with the wonderful meals prepared at Zup’s fishing camp.  As good as any fine restaurant.

They do have a good cook. For a totally different experience, try Crane Lake in the winter.  We have stayed at one of the resorts on Crane Lake and snowmobiled all over Voyageurs National Park.  Absolutely fantastic!  Lunch at Kettle Falls Hotel, where you can look south and see Canada!

I still prefer my water in the liquid state. I did get the info when I was there, it does look interesting. SYOTR or Lake Larry

Response:

Well, I’m taking a break from putting up gear and getting caught up at work and thought I would give a quick run down on the trip. After months of planning, getting permits, and arranging shuttles and a boat (for me, I don’t trip enough to justify buying a tripping canoe), then a couple of weeks drying and repackaging food, planning menus, packing, then repacking and packing again to get everything for three people into packs that would fit into a 18.5′ canoe, my family and I took off after work, meeting my friend Darrell on the road in Indiana on the way to Crane Lake, Minnesota, USA. We had decided to drive straight though, a 1100 mile run for me( please kick me in the head if I decide to do that again). Well, after 20 hours on the road, we arrived at Crane Lake. We quickly loaded onto the shuttle boat and off again. After a quick stop at Canadian Customs, we unloaded and loaded onto a ancient school bus for the ride across Dawson Portage. Did you ever try to get 17′ tripping canoes in a bus? I’m not sure that it wouldn’t have been quicker to walk, the bus had to go that slow. We loaded onto another boat and headed to the Zup’s Fish Camp to pick up our permits. We had decided to take advantage of the fact that the Ontario side allowed motors and have them shuttle us down the lake before crossing back into Boundary Waters. Back into the boat and down to the far end of Lac la Croix. Lac la Croix is one of the larger border lakes in the BWCA. It’s about 30 miles from one end to the other , with hundreds of miles of shoreline, bays and islands to explore and fish. After a couple of hours paddling, we decided to establish a base camp at the head of Lady Boot Bay and then day trip out of there. I had been reluctant to try BWCA because of the requirement to use designated camp sites. I had always felt that this would take away the wilderness feel of the area. I found that I liked the sites, they are well chosen, clean and maintained. The pit latrines were well hidden and the female members of our party thought they were great. In many ways, the sites were in better condition than most of the camp sites I found in Quetico. After setting up camp, I went out on the point and soon caught the first of many Northern Pike. I hadn’t fished for Pike in a few years,managed to let him bit my fingers with his needle sharp teeth. That consigned him to the grill that evening. Sunday, our first full day, we spent fishing and exploring the bays along Coleman Island. My wife, Jean lost a big Pike and my son Nathan landed one 28" long, his first Northern. The winds picked up in the afternoon, so we made a run back to camp. A big supper and more fish on the fire. If you have never tried Pike fillets wrapped in foil and cooked over a fire with butter and lemon pepper, you have missed one of lifes true pleasures. Monday, Darrell and I slipped off to do a little exploring and fishing on our own. Caught a few fish, paddled around a bit on the Mainland side of the bay before heading back. Tuesday started the changing weather. High winds kept us wind bound all day. Rested up and explored around the Camp. For the rest of the trip, the weather would be clear and 80 F one minute and raining and cold the next. Typical Laurentian Shield weather( they tell me they have nice weather for weeks at a time up here, but I think they just tell that to the tourist.). Weds the weather let up enough for a day trip into a couple of surrounding lakes that envolved a couple of short portages. I had hoped to see a Moose, but when your paddling with a 10, 11, and 12 year old, that sucker would have to have been deaf not to hear us coming. Oh well. My wife caught her first Pike! I almost fell over laughing watching her land it! The weather went to Hell at lunch, so we made a dash back to the Camp. Thursday had the same weather pattern, one minute nice, the next nasty. The rain and the wind picked up around noon. We decided that we had better head for camp, which envolved crossing a fairly large open water section. About 1/3 the way across, the wind picked up and it started to rain in sheets. It quickly producted a 2′ chop with the wind gusty up to 40 mph. A real dicey crossing!! My soon to be teenager and budding Whiterwater Kayaker was having a great time. He thought this was big time fun ( he still thinks I’m a paddling God, and nothing will happen if I’m in the boat.). We all made it across safely and sit down for some hot coffee liberally braced with Brandy. Since the weather was so changable, decided to stay in camp and make Pizzas in our camp ovens. After 2 hours of cooking Pizzas, everyone had had enough and we settled back to watch the gulls eating the remains of our days catch. The Gulls had spotted were we left the remains of the fish we filletted soon after we arrived. They would fly by every couple of hours to see if we had left dinner yet. On Weds, a couple of Bald Eagles showed up, checking out what the Gulls were doing in the area. On this day, the gulls were very aggressive and attacked one of the eagles and run him off. Thursday, the Eagle didn’t run. The Gulls ignored him until he took off and made a low pass over the bay. You should have seen the Gulls take off!! The next pass, the Eagle flew low over the rocks and snagged the remains of a large Pike on the fly. This was all happening about 30 yards from where we were sitting!! It was better that National Geographic!! Friday we packed up and paddled back to the Canadian side to be picked up by our shuttle. A quick shower and a great dinner at Zup’s and then back to Crane Lake on Saturday. BTW, let me recommend a couple peices of gear to you. The Outback Oven, we made Pizzas,biscuits, brownies etc. in these ovens all week. They are light and compact. Zip off leg supplex pants, they dry quick and they were by far the favorite. We had several different brands, liked them all. Well suited for the rapid changing weather on the Canadian Shield. See, some of us Whitewater boaters do paddle flat water once in awhile. Although this was the first time I had paddled an aluminum canoe in 15 years. SYOTR or Lake Larry  

Response:

Question:

Bob, how about…. You don’t feel self-conscious in the doctor’s waiting room with a size 12 Cream Variant in the top of your head. You see nothing unusual about standing in water so cold that ice rings are forming around your legs. Now pass the head cement, I need a hit! Steve

Response:

…….    Criteria for FFA membership: …….    (5) Your wife helps you pluck the feathers off a road-killed grouse and  knows enough not to tell anyone about it.

Respectfully requesting the second word of criteria #5 be changed from "wife" to "spouse".  The tagalong-if-he-has-to part of the family dislikes being called a "wife" and he has even managed to scrounge peacock feathers for me.                         —Jewelee

Response:

Jewelee — Right on … will make the change as noted. (PS: I should have been more thoughtful. I certainly never considered my spouse a tag-a-long … she outspots me and every guide in the Keys. and outfishes most anglers) Welcome to the FFA. THANKS….BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …….    Criteria for FFA membership: …….    (5) Your wife helps you pluck the feathers off a road-killed grouse and  knows enough not to tell anyone about it. Respectfully requesting the second word of criteria #5 be changed from "wife" to "spouse".  The tagalong-if-he-has-to part of the family dislikes being called a "wife" and he has even managed to scrounge peacock feathers for me.                         —Jewelee

Response:

snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays.

snip Your kid’s name is Caddis. Ross Wilson

Response:

snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. snip Your kid’s name is Caddis. Ross Wilson

Or Windknot.

Response:

Geeze … and I thought I was clever when I nicknamed my kid "Lefty." BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. snip Your kid’s name is Caddis. Ross Wilson Or Windknot.

Response:

snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. snip Your kid’s name is Caddis.

On the other hand, maybe it’s really Rhyacophila! -Burton

Response:

Ok…you guys are in, but when are your kids’ birthdays? I know one of my kids was born about 23 days after the opening of trout season, but can’t remember the other three.BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. snip Your kid’s name is Caddis. On the other hand, maybe it’s really Rhyacophila! -Burton

Response:

Having concluded that fly fishing is an addiction, I am starting a NP-organization called Fly Fishing Anonymous (FFA). We’ll have our first annual meeting somewhere appropriate (how about So. Andros Island in May?). Anyone who meets the following criteria can join. (Since this is the first posting, please feel free to add your own suggestions for membership. All reasonably addictive behaviors will be considered as eligibility for membership.) Thanks…BobE., Rochester, NY Criteria for FFA membership: (1) You currently have callouses and line cuts on both index fingers. (2) You own at least six hook hones. (3) You don’t feel self-conscious standing in line at the checkout of a crowded discount store with six bottles of Sally Hanson’s hard as nails. (4) You know why Hunt Valley has displaced Cockeysville as the center of the flyfishing universe. (Hint: See Bernard’s new business card.) (5) Your wife helps you pluck the feathers off a road-killed grouse and knows enough not to tell anyone about it. (6) You have expired fishing licenses from 4 or more states. (You get to be president if all four of the licenses are valid.) (7) Bob Berger and Chet Pryor know you by your first name. (8) You not only know the rational behind the sizing system of fly tying thread (size A to 9/0), but you also know what the sizes relate to in actual diameters. (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. (10) You have fished alone from 11 pm to 8 am in both freshwater and saltwater. Other suggestions are more than welcome. Thanks. BobE.

Response:

Question:

: Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The : only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get : and where we’ll build the whore house. I also want to know where Wayne will park his truck to begin the bean-fest. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The : only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get : and where we’ll build the whore house. I also want to know where Wayne will park his truck to begin the bean-fest.

Upwind of the beavers…that’ll drive ‘em out. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Hi Sandy-    Lets say some Californian just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in SW Montana. . . and immediately wanted to sub divide it, build a sprawling ranchette and get rid of the vermin. You need to kill the beavers quick because they’re flooding the road and you just washed your Orvis endorsed vehicle and don’t really want to drive on a wet road. And, hear this, it gets even worse: they’re eating willows. Can’t they eat dog food or bird seed or something?    To answer your question: grenades work well. Pull the pin, count to sixty real slow then throw it at one of those damn beavers.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.   But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? —

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com

Response:

: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale : in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, : You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on : the third. I think with three houses, and probably fences, it’s no longer going to be the prettiest 100 acres in SW MT, beavers or no. That said, I’m kinda ambivalent about the beaver thing; I can see why one sides complains about our manipulation of nature, and I can see why someone would want to get rid of the ones on their property. So,… I would think letting a trapper come in would be the best, or is the fur market non-existant these days?  A beaver pelt used to be fairly valuable, I hope in this hypothetical example those three pelts weren’t tossed… Jon Cook.

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? —

Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? — Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat

Obviously Sandy hasn’t had to deal with the little "construction freaks".  Contact your local Fish and Game and they will put you in touch with a local or state trapper to remedy your problems.   It takes time and should be done in the Winter months as to not waste the hides.  They can be a real problem if you let them get a good hold on your drainage.  Good luck   Ace in Alaska

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? — Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat Obviously Sandy hasn’t had to deal with the little "construction freaks".  Contact your local Fish and Game and they will put you in touch with a local or state trapper to remedy your problems. It takes time and should be done in the Winter months as to not waste the hides.  They can be a real problem if you let them get a good hold on your drainage.  Good luck   Ace in Alaska

christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse.  It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman

Response:

Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman Any other readers see a paradox here? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

        to tell you the truth, i’ve never seen a beaver i wouldn’t love to eat.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

: My advice ?   : One small cabin on the whole 100 acres on the dryest most protected spot. : Your wealth would exceed that possible by sub-dividing and developing. Maybe, but the question is whether he could afford the mortgage payments on that wealth.  Even the locals get caught up in this stuff… I see it all over.  Pretty soon, the latecomers will start complaining about all the growth… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Who knows, maybe the deer will visit you in your dreams.

in the mountain village,    the wind rustles the leaves. deep in the night, the deer    cry out beyond the end of dreams.            – minimoto no morotada

Response:

Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get and where we’ll build the whore house.

I heard that a famous tributary of the Snake got its name when some trappers were sitting around and one said "someone go into town and bring a Hoback". TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? — Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat

Good old leg holds and conibear traps have always worked well for me. Don Kelly

Response:

Yeah, the beavers are in their natural environment.  The Californian is not!

This thread has been a lesson in mass-hysteria.  I don’t know whether Sandy has ever been to California, but he’s lived in Montana as long as I’ve known him. Sandy: do what you must with the beavers, but PLEASE don’t subdivide! If you Montanans continue to chop up Montana into little make-believe tourist ranches, as we have done to Colorado, where will I go on vacation? — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Dear Ralph; Oh, Lord, man; you are great, just great!  I love it: you should be a writer or something.  

Yea, maybe he could write a guide about fishing the Sierra Nevada for trout. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Yeah, the beavers are in their natural environment.  The Californian is not! This thread has been a lesson in mass-hysteria.  I don’t know whether Sandy has ever been to California, but he’s lived in Montana as long as I’ve known him.

I don’t know if Sandy has been to California either but I know that Ralph lives there and I lived in California all my life.  The environment that Ralph lived is nothing like the area that I lived.  So, I’m wondering, exactly what is a Californian’s natural environment, or does Jason just have some stereotypical view of what California is like. Sandy: do what you must with the beavers, but PLEASE don’t subdivide! If you Montanans continue to chop up Montana into little make-believe tourist ranches, as we have done to Colorado, where will I go on vacation?

Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get and where we’ll build the whore house. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.   But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What?

As long as the habitat is right, they will come back even if you kill them all right now.  Consider the South Platte corridor right through Denver. They can’t keep a young tree alive in this park-like setting for the beavers. My advice ?   One small cabin on the whole 100 acres on the dryest most protected spot. Your wealth would exceed that possible by sub-dividing and developing. Who knows, maybe the deer will visit you in your dreams. TimW

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This is a hot topic around here (NC) as well. Beaver populations are way up in suburbia – all their predators are gone and the beavers are protected in many areas. Many neighborhood lakes have trouble ranging from tree loss to damage to dams. I have lost a couple of trees on a lot I own to beavers. Sometimes they are trapped live and relocated, but there are fewer and fewer places to put them. I put chicken wire around the base of all the remaining trees. Nice simple solution for me – I only have a small lot to protect, and they can move on and bother someone else. But I can certainly understand how options might be limited in other cases. I am glad I don’t have to think about doing it, but I think there may be cases where it may be necessary. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, if you want some kind of vote on who’s approach to an idiots QUESTION regarding beavers and beaver ponds is more acceptable . . . let my fellow fly fishermen post a few replies regarding "KILLING BEAVERS", is the preferred approach, okay ace?

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So, if you want some kind of vote on who’s approach to an idiots QUESTION regarding beavers and beaver ponds is more acceptable . . . let my fellow fly fishermen post a few replies regarding "KILLING BEAVERS", is the preferred approach, okay ace?

I can tell this must be some sort of religious thing for you George since you seem to evoke the christian deity frequently on this topic. However, if you want a vote I would say "It all depends" (no, I’m not running for office). For example, our family has had hunting-fishing property here since the 30’s or 40’s (that’s the last 50-60 years). There have never been beaver in that area. The last 4 years or so beaver have moved in and have devastated many areas for fishing. This situation would very likely reach a new equilibrium in about 20-30 years as the stream beds moved, swamps formed etc. However, since beaver are new there, we are not willing to sacrifice a generation of fishing to reach that point- sorry but that’s too bad. However, if the original poster bought land that had been long colonized by beaver and the ecosystem and trout reproduction were in equilibrium with the beaver, then I would say 1) don’t bother them and 2) they are probably so locally widespread that you will never make much headway since they will continually recolonize the area and 3) they probably don’t negatively impact the fishing under those conditions and may actually help and 4) don’t develop (subdivide) the land. Signing off without a deprecating remark. Jon

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Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman Any other readers see a paradox here? — Yeah, the beavers are in their natural environment.  The Californian is not!

JB

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Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman Any other readers see a paradox here? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Yah, the fact I missed mentioning you if you’re for killing beavers as a solution to every human who thinks they have a problem with beavers. They were here long before we arrived.  Seems "Man" cannot keep his hand off a spot on this earth for even a little bird to stand upon.  So, what is your problem that you cannot stand up for the life of one beaver?  Or two, or a family of them which make beautiful Brook Trout Ponds and rich soiled valley’s that produce in time . . . lush, green elk pastures or habitat for moose, etc? Instead of being a smart-ass and talking about fly tying and flies that are used on Beaver Ponds . . . your kind only can think of how to miss-manage our wildlife.  Right? right. So, if you want some kind of vote on who’s approach to an idiots QUESTION regarding beavers and beaver ponds is more acceptable . . . let my fellow fly fishermen post a few replies regarding "KILLING BEAVERS", is the preferred approach, okay ace? christ.. George Gehrke / Mr. Gink

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Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman

Any other readers see a paradox here? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Dear Ralph; Oh, Lord, man; you are great, just great!  I love it: you should be a writer or something.  You just took his post, stood on the complete opposite side of it, telling us like it is.  Just beautiful, man!  Those urbanites: now, with the age of delocation upon us, no wilderness is safe from their spoiling touch.  Keep up the good fight! Sincerely Jason Beary

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  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand

1.  Normal beaver life style includes excluding the young from the family i.e. forcing them to emigrate, when they get to be two years old.  So sooner or later the parent couple will die off and the site will become vacant. 2.  You can accelerate this by the combination of opportunistic shooting and trapping, easiest in winter when ice restricts their movement. Exterminating a single family seems to do no appreciable damage to the continent-wide beaver gene pool these days. 3.  But you need to bear in mind #1, i.e. there’s another beaver family two or three miles away that will be kicking its young adults out of the nest — and when they find your site vacant they will occupy it!  The cycle of occupation/vacancy seems to be 7 or 8 years.     As someone else posted, local wildlife authorities may (or may not) have better advice about both short-term and long-term control.  Beaver can do a lot of damage where species like poplar are abundant, e.g. can fell whole stands of mature trees and just leave them there without salvaging the proceeds. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.   But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? —

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So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What?

How about live trapping and relocation? — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

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Question:

I was thinking of trying out the Hiwassee river in western Tennessee this weekend.  Anyone know the fishing (trout, that is) and water level conditions?  In particular, is the river wade-able at this time of the year?

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I was thinking of trying out the Hiwassee river in western

Tennessee this weekend.  Anyone know the fishing (trout, that is) and water level conditions?  In particular, is the river wade-able at this time of the year?<< I plan on fishing it Sunday morning, reports I’ve been getting indicates releases are starting late morning which should allow wading in the lower part of the trophy section until early afternoon. It’s been my limited experience that the fishing is almost always good. Don’t know for sure what’s coming off besides the ever present caddis but I always take some BWO, sulphurs, and hendricksons along with the usual nymphal stuff just in care. Wayne Knight Marietta GA                                              

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Path: magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.in ternetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!jethro.msfc.nasa.gov!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: NASA/MSFC Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: jethro.msfc.nasa.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.3 sun4m) I was thinking of trying out the Hiwassee river in western Tennessee this weekend.  Anyone know the fishing (trout, that is) and water level conditions?  In particular, is the river wade-able at this time of the year?

I wish I could go with you. Fun river. Try right above the bridge at reliance (gas station).  If you got float tubes do that also spectacular river. I almost drowned at 2 wheels, waders filled, scared the piss out of me. Otherwise safe river. Have fun. Brad Barricklow, Columbus Ohio.

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You can call 1-800 238-2264 which is the TVA hot line. When it answers push #4 which is generation levels. Then when the two letter code is requested, pust 22, the code for Appalacia Dam. They will then give you the last 8 hours of generation in CFS, followed by the generation schedule for the rest of the day. If you  call after 4PM EDT you can get the schedule for the next day. The river is usually fished during no generation but some people use tubes with one generator and drift boat it when 2 generators are running. I would be careful if you are not familiar with the river as the bottom is very irregular. Watch for water rising and get out.The river has been fishing pretty good but they have had a lot of rain this year in East Tn. The Adams fly shop is near the town or Reliance and they are a good source of info. Good luck. J.

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Question:

I just finished John Judy’s book on slack line presentation. It was reviewed in the lastest Fly Fisherman.  He talks about hinged nymphing and uses a 4′ft leader that he cuts from old tapered leaders.  Does anyone have a formula for putting one of these things together?  I build all my leaders and don’t have any old knotless leaders hanging around. Any comments on this type of nymphing?  Sounds interesting and I’m an awful nymph fisherman. dennis aebersold

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: Any comments on this type of nymphing?  Sounds interesting : and I’m an awful nymph fisherman.         I haven’t used the type of nymphing that you are talking about, but if you are really a horrible nymph fisherman, you might try a short-line technique like we typically use on teh the South Platte here in CO.         The line is weighted about a foot above the fly with a small piece of lead and the rod is held straight out. You can use strike indicators on the leader to increase the probability of detecting a strike.  This makes its a lot easier to detect the little nibbles, and you end up catching a lot more fish…

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Briefly, the leader is tapered similarly to the normal leader but the tippet is fairly long.  The real issue here is the technique for working the fly.  It involves stacking.  After you cast the fly you ’snap’ what I call a micro mend that sends a small loop up your fly line and jerks indicator up stream.  This insures that the fly and weight are directly down stream from the indicator and line to insure that the drift is effected as little as possible by cross currents.  Then you shoot another series of two or three mends which should drop down right around the indicator.  This works similar to a birds nest in that it protects the indicator from dragging.  You then continue to shoot these mends to keep several with the indicator. This system is absolutely deadly when you are fishing water like the Big Horn or the Missouri where there are long glides.  Using this technique you can fish very small flies with relatively little weight.  You can fish these flies well away from you under high visibility conditions where a short line won’t work.  You can also get seventy foot plus drifts.  This is also important when fishing small flies where the current is not terribly fast.  Under these conditions short lining is a problem because aside from the problem of crowding the fish, you cannot get a long drift. I learned this technique from John Beard who is a master of this technique.  The secret is really all involved with sending those special mends.  It is really hard to describe and the best way to learn is to watch someone.  Also it is much easier to do this with heavier lines.  The heavier the easier having something to do with the lack of mass in smaller lines and air resistance. This is deadly on steelhead as well as trout.

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Question:

Is it just me or is sea kayaking under going a rapid de-evolution ?    I can think of no other sport that is racing back to the future like it.   Skin boats,  thin wood paddles Greenland training techniques this stuff has been in use for 10,000 years .   Can any modern R.D dept. hope to come up with any thing that can withstand that test of time?

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Is it just me or is sea kayaking under going a rapid de-evolution ?    I can think of no other sport that is racing back to the future like it.   Skin boats,  thin wood paddles Greenland training techniques this stuff has been in use for 10,000 years .   Can any modern R.D dept. hope to come up with any thing that can withstand that test of time?

 I would’nt go so far as calling it a "de-evolution", the same thing happens with just about every sport out there – equipment becomes more and more sophisticated and technologicaly advanced. The original creation that started the whole process becomes lost to history. Just because I want to build a Baidarka doesnt mean I want to hold the rest of the world back – I just want something different – something that you just dont see very often, but is also recogizable as a part of past history – which is what makes it so fun. This is the reason I fly fish instead of using the latest in bait casting reels(but I use both), I also shoot a recurve bow(but I also own a compound), and I shoot black powder ( but I also have the most modern of arms). I’d be willing to bet that the modern R&D shops can and do design kayaks and canoes that are light years more efficient and durable than past boats, but evolution is the way of the world, and what better way to evolve than to look back to the past to plan for the future?

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