Question:

I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I simply don’t understand why you don’t ignore my taunts. Try it once, and reclaim your newsgroup. — Citizen Fisherman one can’t be ostracized from a vacuum…

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Dick Head said: << I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I That’s pretty obvious. What I don’t understand is why you would want to stir things up. Are you a jerk or what?

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Dick Head said: << I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I That’s pretty obvious. What I don’t understand is why you would want to stir things up. Are you a jerk or what?

The former.   What I don’t understand is how consistently achieving the predictable holds much fascination at all, much less being deserving of self-congratulation. Joe F.

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Yup, got the accounts mixed….. john "

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I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I simply don’t understand why you don’t ignore my taunts. Try it once, and reclaim your newsgroup.

Yeah man ! Aren’t you a cool guy ! Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish. There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day. When I left I could not find any fish in the creek except a dead one wedged in a rock. It was very sad to me. Three men talked with me while I caught a nice one in the main river. When they saw it one asked if it was a rainbow trout. They went up in the creek and one of them came back with a whitefish he had caught with his hands. He asked me if he could keep it and I told him that, if he had a license, he’d probably be OK. He did not. A little while later I saw him again. He asked where he could catch a salmon. I told him, maybe Reudi. He asked where he could catch a salmon in Denver. I told him I did not know. About an hour later I saw them with some other people and they had filled a kitchen sized trash bag with fish they caught, I think by throwing rocks at them. Wierd carnage. One lady took the roe from all of my fish to feed her bloodhound. I though that was pretty cool. I mean, I do not eat whitefish roe. I saw literally buckets, shop buckets, full of fish hauled out. It did not bother me. At least the guys that obviously had smoke houses ready to accept the fish. It was the people killing them for no reason that really bugged me and the people that obviously would throw them away if they did keep them. These whitefish were very easy to hook but hard to catch. They’d get into the strong current and even with the 6 weight and 4X, you had no choice but to get running downstream. Almost always they’d ball up the tackle. Frieght trains. While you could feel the head shake that made you pretty certain it was a whitefish, you really did not know if it was a large brown or a whitefish until you could see it. This made for some exciting fishing. One guy told me that if I steamed them and removed the meat I could mix it with eggs and cracker crumbs and spices and fry it in a mock crab cake or make tacos with the meat that it was excellent. He said you can also freeze the steamed meat and it would keep. All in all, very good ideas. In the afternoon we moved down and I hooked 6 fish, landed 3 [2 browns and a bow] all were around 16. The bow was very fat in the shoulders and deep bodied, at least 5 inches. An extremely nice fish. None of them faught a fraction as hard as any of the whitefish. I had a fish get off that was the proverbial ‘I thought it was a snag’. I really did think it was a snag, and I pulled *hard* when it just started moving away slowly. The hook straightened, and I lost him. It was a TMC 2457. My minds eye tells me it was a brown. Five pounds. At least. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish.

Thanks for the report.  That rock throwing etc. on the whitefish was too weird. Where was this? I’ve never come across anything like that. Willi

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There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day.

???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird. –waldo

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Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish.

Yeah, that’s what I tell the guys too, heh heh. While you could feel the head shake that made you pretty certain it was a whitefish, you really did not know if it was a large brown or a whitefish until you could see it. This made for some exciting fishing.

I wish I could get over that bummer when I find out it’s *not* a large brown

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Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day.

Throwing rocks at a baptism seems like an unconventional way to welcome a new convert. To each his own, I guess. –Steve

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There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day. ???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird.

They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR

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…..I wish I could get over that bummer when I find out it’s *not* a large brown

You should.  You would be doing yourself a favor.  I caught as many whitefish as trout on a trip to southwest Montana some years ago and enjoyed them every bit as much.  Whitefish are eager to take a fly, put up as good a fight as trout, are attractive in their own right, and are quite tasty.  While I understand the appeal of targeting a particular species on a given outing, I am never bothered by the serendipitous catch of another, and particularly so when it introduces me to a species with a lot of good characteristics (from an angler’s point of view) and to which I had never given any consideration.  Hell, I’d go back just to stupid old trout.      :( Wolfgang chubs now……damn, what i wouldn’t give to tie into a mess of nice four inch chubs!

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Throwing rocks at a baptism seems like an unconventional way to welcome a new convert. To each his own, I guess.

Sounds to me like there’s a distressing shortage of sinners in that crowd. Wolfgang don’t s’pose i’d fit in real good.      :(

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Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish. Thanks for the report.  That rock throwing etc. on the whitefish was too weird. Where was this? I’ve never come across anything like that.

Let’s just say it was at an interstate rest area. I’ll tell you exactly where in email or when I see you. You’ve probably already figured it out from the clues. There was a pedestrian bridge over the creek and a colorful sign depicting the life cycle of the Whitefish. I think it was titled "A Colorado Native". In the morning a delightful couple excitedly pointed out the fish to us. It’s too bad that travelers after about 2 in the afternoon would have seen no fish, or just the few dead ones. I don’t think the church group was all that bad. It was just teenage girls and boys with their shoes off…for the hour or so break from the bus journey they were on. The guys were chasing and teasing the girls with the whitefish, just like you and I would have done. That kind of thing. Fairly harmless. I think that as a reasonable ‘pattern of positive behavior’ there’s an ethical compromise. Once fish make the spawning tributary they should be proected. It takes a fair amount of skill to catch them in the main river. That would enforce some degree of ‘fair chase’ to the equation. You’d have to at least care enough about what you’re doing to pick up a license and a rod and reel and to fish for them. Not just a big rock. I was thinking….I bet the people that left with a trash bag full probably thought we were wasting our time, fishing for them with nymphs, I mean…it took a while to get just a few with the fly rod…they got 50 in 10 minutes by throwing them up on the rocks with their hands. I feel fairly strongly that the fish in the creek should be enjoyed by the people stopping in at the rest area. It’s a marvel of nature and very impressive. Just the education that the Rainbow trout is not native to Colorado but the Whitefish are, would probably be interesting to thinking people that would probably otherwise never know. I’m formatting the words to the letter to the CDOW and local papers in my head as we speak. I’m thinking more on these human/wildlife ‘patterns’ as regarding reccomendations and paradigms. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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"TBone" .    That would enforce some degree of ‘fair chase’ to the equation. You’d have to at least care enough about what you’re doing to pick up a license and a rod and reel and to fish for them.

I hate to say it……but even a few minor – ENFORCED – regulations have an enormous result in the amount of streamside litter, diminished negative behavior and overall improvement that it is time to consider such things for all streams. You eliminate a whole class of people. john

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..and you get my first <SPLORK john

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???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird. –waldo

It would seem like it until you’ve had some experience with church groups and the outdoors.  They should restrict themselves to city parks and playgrounds, where they know what’s happening.  On what used to be my favorite part of my favorite river, they’ve proven themselves to be almost as obnoxious as the beer for breakfast bunch and rather more dangerous.  Mostly, thank (heaven?) to themselves, but it’s painful to watch and to try to give them a clue when they get really odd and the kids are likely to be dumped, drown, get hypothermia or any combination of the former.  While some of them don’t believe Darwin was correct, they sometimes seem intent on proving his theories. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR

…god, now that’s funny!!! jeff (brimstone, anyone?)

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They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR …god, now that’s funny!!! jeff (brimstone, anyone?)

Agreed. ROFLOL. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

I have followed this newsgroup for quite awhile now and some of you guys that complain the most about spaming always promote your own web site, now what is this??? Is this spaming???  When I post something here or anywhere else I do not put my web address down and I have not told anybody here or any other board that I am selling Bastard Bamboo, St.Croix , GLoomis, Eastbranch rods, Phillipson, Goodwin & Grangers Heddons, Southbends, H&I, Montagues, Orvis, or any other product I sell… When I posted that I really liked the Black Raven I was telling the truth about the rod.. I was really impressed with this rod.. AIt casted real smooth..When I go fly fishing it is adventure for me because I am in a wheelchair and I always have a hand full of rods to fish with and I usually fish with all the rods I take fishing with me, and I have to admit Banboo Flyrods are the funniest to fish with..  Actually I just started flyfishing and I caught my first trout on an Bamboo Flyrod, Whoops it was a Bastard  flyrod maybe this is an ilegal word here, but I really dont care what is an ilegal word..   I am really sorry if I am spaming about my Heddons,Phillipsons,Southbends,ETC..   Come on guys forget the past and lets jsut talk about fishing and if that Word Bastard come up just let it go, because a Bastard can catch fish just like an Orvis rod can catch fish..  Come on Guys lets just caych some fish on your favorite rod and your favorite fly…   Later dave

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        (blah blah blah)  Come on Guys lets just caych some fish on your favorite rod and your favorite fly…   Later dave

        dave, just go mix another drink, and forget about it.         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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[snipped] Dave, it’s been explained to you already, but once more for emphasis: you’d never been seen here before, and suddenly a post from out of nowhere appears, overflowing with ebullient praise for a rod built by someone that had thoroughly worn out his welcome here. And adding the bit about "buying ten of them" was like waving a red flag in the face of many folks here. Thus the reaction. But it appears that those same folks might owe you an apology… [el snippo] I have to admit Banboo Flyrods are the funniest to fish with..

LOL! Welll…..No comment ;^) Stick around, Dave. /daytripper

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Phooey. It’s an election year, politics is on our minds and we speak our minds. (Those of us that actually HAVE minds, anyway.:-) Tell that large, hairy, mustachioed man wearing the fishnet stockings and high heels who forces you to read political posts to put down the cat-o’-nine-tails and get back to work on the heirheads debate strategy. (Unless you really like that sort of thing.) — Ken Fortenberry

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else.

I wish I was young, rich and attractive. Thank *you*. — Charlie…

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Yeah, wish in one hand and shit in the other.  Let us know which one fills up faster. Wolfgang Director, ROFF Office of Research

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

I wish people would quit reading what they don’t want to, so there you go…  I think we are about equal in our chances of getting our wishes. HTH? You’re Welcome R (who knows Slim just stole None’s horse, and is border-bound…)

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I like your new word, spaming. Maybe spame is a good name for off topic posts! Personnally, I’ve been very pleased that recently people have put "off topic" posts under appropriate headers.  They are very easy to ignore if you’re not interested. What bothers me is when you click on a fishing related subject line and you get garbage. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

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Yeah, wish in one hand and shit in the other.  Let us know which one fills up faster.

My grandma always said wish in one hand, shit in the other… and see which weighs more. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

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I wish people would stop wishing, as it is very difficult to prove whether one’s wish actually came to fruition or not! — Opie  –I *hope* this doesn’t piss the wrong people off– – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I like your new word, spaming. Maybe spame is a good name for off topic posts! Personnally, I’ve been very pleased that recently people have put "off topic" posts under appropriate headers.  They are very easy to ignore if you’re not interested. What bothers me is when you click on a fishing related subject line and you get garbage. Willi I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

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I wish people would stop wishing, as it is very difficult to prove whether one’s wish actually came to fruition or not!

I can tell you I keep closing my eyes and clicking my heels but somehow I keep getting stuck in Kansas. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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I can tell you I keep closing my eyes and clicking my heels but somehow I keep getting stuck in Kansas.

Ah, that’s the problem: that only works to get you back *to* Kansas, you need a tornado to get you out<g. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You Phooey. It’s an election year, politics is on our minds and we speak our minds. (Those of us that actually HAVE minds, anyway.:-) Tell that large, hairy, mustachioed man wearing the fishnet stockings and high heels who forces you to read political posts to put down the cat-o’-nine-tails and get back to work on the heirheads debate strategy. (Unless you really like that sort of thing.)

When did Louie grow a mustache? /daytripper (OK, now I gotta run and hide. Buh byeeeeeee! ;^)

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R wrote snip::I wish people would quit reading what they don’t want to, so there you go…

The only way to get the damn thing to go away is to hit read msg. Big Dale

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It is about fishing.  If big oil get’s their empty suit in the White House look forward to clear cuts,  cynaide leach mines,  oil spills in ANWF and all imaginable kinds of hell loosed upon the earth.  The forces of greed want your fishing hole. BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

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Yeah, wish in one hand and shit in the other.  Let us know which one fills up faster. My grandma always said wish in one hand, shit in the other… and see which weighs more.

My kinda grandma!  Never got to know any of my own.  Can I borrow yours some time? Wolfgang over the river and through the woods

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else.

I wish I had a better benefits package, a bigger apartment, three redheaded Tri-Delt mistresses, and a beer. We all got needs, pal. You’re welcome. "My father said to be strong, that a good man could never do wrong  in a dream I had last night in America" -Los Lobos

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Why, do they not make Tri-Delts anymore, or was there only one window in time when they were universally considered desirable?  I know in my undergraduate days (69-73) they were thought (and I believe thought themselves) hotter than heat. Me, I never saw it:  preferred hippy girls in peasant shirts and jeans. BTW, are we allowed to talk about women here, or only politics? JR — To reply, remove the Qs from the address above – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     "Tri-Delts" gives your approximate age away. [an assumption, but held until informed.] (MC’s comment snipped for space) I wish I had a better benefits package, a bigger apartment, three redheaded Tri-Delt mistresses, and a beer. We all got needs, pal.

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     I don’t know, it seems odd to be fixated on redheads, but even more outr

Question:

Hi, Can anybody recommend a good quality, sturdy tackle box. It needs to be large as I have a big collection of lures and trolling paraphernalia. At the moment I end up dragging two or three smaller boxes around with me. Many thanks, Nick

Response:

shin real hard on the hitch receiver and jump around. Steve

Sorry, that was Bill Dance, "dancin" around the end of his truck. — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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"Nick C"

asks: Hi, Can anybody recommend a good quality, sturdy tackle box. It needs to be large as I have a big collection of lures and trolling paraphernalia. At the moment I end up dragging two or three smaller boxes around with me. Many thanks, Nick

I like Plano.  You can get them in sizes big enough to carry the contents of a one bedroom apartment. But, I do like two or three smaller boxes.  I fish for different species of fish, and bringing along a ton of bass stuff to fish for trout is just too much.  Now, I may keep the bass box in the car or RV, just in case, but hauling everything you own to go catch a few bluegills doesn’t work for me. I even like the little ones about as big as two packs of cigs to carry when I go for a short hike.  Big enough to carry some extra hooks, sinkers, lures, flies, etc, and go in a pocket. But I do like Plano, and for a couple of bucks, send in the deal and get your name on a real brass plate for the top.  Makes you look like Like Roland Martin.  And to really look like Roland, bang your shin real hard on the hitch receiver and jump around. Steve Illigitimi non carborundum.

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"Steve Huber"

Sorry, that was Bill Dance, "dancin" around the end of his truck.

I’ll bet that Roland has done it at least once.  Maybe not on camera. Steve Illigitimi non carborundum.

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Hi, Can anybody recommend a good quality, sturdy tackle box. It needs to be large as I have a big collection of lures and trolling paraphernalia. At the moment I end up dragging two or three smaller boxes around with me. Many thanks, Nick

This doesnt relate much to what youre talking about, but If you take advice from the guys on TV and have like 5 small boxes for each kind of fish, you will end up going fishing and sure enough there will be people catching 20lb cats all around you when you only have your bass equipment with you.  or you take a bunch of topwater stuff and the bass are biting on the bottom……man that pisses me off so buy a big box, be ready for anything…..I even carry in my little firebird 4 different fishing poles….a fly rod & reel, a spinning reel w/ rod, a baitcasting reel w/ rod, and a bug surfrod with a huge spinning reel just in case the huge carp happen to be biting.

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so buy a big box, be ready for anything…..I even carry in my little firebird 4 different fishing poles….a fly rod & reel, a spinning reel w/ rod, a baitcasting reel w/ rod, and a bug surfrod

One of those shopping carts works good to haul all the stuff. Be sure to remove the market’s name. Steve  ;-) Illigitimi non carborundum.

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Cant remember the brand..but i saw one at wal-mart ,pretty big with removable clear boxes you could fit in a pocket for hiking,quick trip etc..

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Let’s see tackle boxes … you got Kevin Van Dam on TV with a tractor-trailer load of tackle, you got Mark Sosin on TV with little Plano tackle boxes for all occasions …. sometimes a dozen boxes for some occasions, you got foot locker-sized, cig-pack-sized,  you got worm boxes, leader boxes, fresh … salt …. fly …. surf … spinning …. bait casting … I secretly suspect your question was designed to stir up this bunch of smelly ol’ anglers … and hook em good … Mission accomplished. Unless of course, you work for Plano, Flambeau or any of the other tackle box makers. By the way, I’ve been fishing for 44 years, and I only have a dozen tackle boxes … not counting the little ones.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cant remember the brand..but i saw one at wal-mart ,pretty big with removable clear boxes you could fit in a pocket for hiking,quick trip etc..

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Let’s see tackle boxes … you got Kevin Van Dam on TV with a tractor-trailer load of tackle, you got Mark Sosin on TV with little Plano tackle boxes for all occasions …. sometimes a dozen boxes for some occasions, you got foot locker-sized, cig-pack-sized,  you got worm boxes, leader boxes, fresh … salt …. fly …. surf … spinning …. bait casting … I secretly suspect your question was designed to stir up this bunch of smelly ol’ anglers … and hook em good … Mission accomplished. Unless of course, you work for Plano, Flambeau or any of the other tackle box makers. By the way, I’ve been fishing for 44 years, and I only have a dozen tackle boxes … not counting the little ones.

I mostly freshwater fish, so I have two tackle boxes, one for fresh and a smaller one for salt. When I get too much freshwater gear and outgrow my box, I transfer all my saltwater stuff into it and give the smallest one to Goodwill. I’ve gone through about 4, and my freshwater box is now at the largest size Plano you can get without having dual side opening trays. I think I’m going to be keeping my current one for awhile Cant remember the brand..but i saw one at wal-mart ,pretty big with removable clear boxes you could fit in a pocket for hiking,quick trip etc..

Mega Man fans visit alt.games.megaman Quint’s page of Rockman manga scans: http://www.crosswinds.net/~sakugarne

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Question:

If anyone in this group has fly fished on a trip to South America, New Zealand, or Australia and has any good fishing photographs from that trip, I would be very grateful if you would be willing to share them with me by sending them via email so I can use them on a web site that I am creating. Thank you very much, Bruce

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Bruce, I’ve got tons of pics from various fishing trips to South Amercia……uh….are you gonna have like some kind of ‘adult check’ on the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone in this group has fly fished on a trip to South America, New Zealand, or Australia and has any good fishing photographs from that trip, I would be very grateful if you would be willing to share them with me by sending them via email so I can use them on a web site that I am creating. Thank you very much, Bruce

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John, I don’t really know what you mean by an "adult check" for my site.  It’s not going to be some kind of porn thing, if that’s what you mean.  It’s just a fishing and hunting web site I’m creating, that will link to various other fishing and hunting web sites around the world. If you have some good fishing photos from South America and you don’t mind me using them, I’d love to see them.  I’ve heard the fishing is great there and the scenery is beautiful. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. Bruce Bruce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bruce, I’ve got tons of pics from various fishing trips to South Amercia……uh….are you gonna have like some kind of ‘adult check’ on the

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Question:

It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…The shop I guide for has a deal with Terry in which we guide anyone who wants to fish there. The fish are too huge to land alone so this is recommended. I have fished there a bunch and can assure you that there is nothing easy about landing a 6 pound Kamloops on a sz. 18 pheasant tail. The fishing is easy- if you use a cork pellet- but if you fish it according to the hatches and the mood of the fish its a damn fun time and a challenge. For a time this year I was nailing them on a sz. 18 sulphur parachute – it’ll make your knees shake watching a 26 inch brown sip down a fly that small. . My personal best was a 15 pound rainbow. I caught her on a sz. 16 beetle, barbless…..My funniest catch was a 20 some odd inch Kamloops that put me into the backing in one long run. It took the fly, turned tail and ran straight at me, jumped chest high into the air, bounced off  a boulder in front of me and kept on hauling. She ran 60 feet in one run. The run was so violent I ended up tangled in the trees 50 feet downstream. I ran after her, pulled my line out of the trees, and tried to reel her in. Another run upstream, and the down…….I landed her after a long fight. Funny thing is, I was just showing my guest how to roll cast and didn’t expect to hook Granted, it may be fake, but it will have you shaking in your boots. By no means is it easy.  Any how, enough rambling, I’ll let you guys know what Terry says tomorrow. I just decided that I’m going to fish there for a while in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

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I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…

That’s right nice of you Matt. I actually knew that you were a guide for that stretch of water from talking to Walt and from reading your emails on the NC list, but since we haven’t met, I didn’t want to be so bold as to ask a favor. However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

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No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

How does IJ do that, anyhow?  I already told Walt I was coming to the spring clave in Carolina.  However, I forgot to mention that my attendance was contingent upon the presence of Indian Joe.  Wouldn’t be a Carolina Clave without THE MAN being there. Mark Faulkner

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However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

        since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual wayno the innocent

Ahhhh, Becky and Jody; I taught them everything they know back in ‘74. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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(snipped extremely large dose of fermented BS) in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

Walt, Matt’s been at the mushrooms again. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk.

That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0) Louie

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Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0)

You forgot to say ‘f*ck profanity’<g. — Charlie…

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it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

As Delbert McClinton says, "it ain’t what you eat but the way how you chew it". — Charlie…

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since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

LOL.   I seem to remember a similar incident involving a certain cactus. Of course you’re the legal expert here, but our president has made abundantly clear the difference between "innocent" and "not convicted". Joe F.

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I sent him an email a couple of weeks ago, detailing the steps.  I think he enjoys the anonymity. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC The older you get, the better you realize you are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out. If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin. I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

Response:

Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.      I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave.   All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

Response:

IJ…might be time to adjust the medication a bit <G. BTW, it’s a different crowd "downstream" in avery/watauga…they’ll have you locked up on charges for environmental pollution within the first day! … of course, you’ll probably be staying over at elk river at tom selleck’s place won’t you? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

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Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? –Steve

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Steve Z: <<Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

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Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements –Steve

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Steve Z: <<Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements I agree with Walt.  I once belonged to a local ffing club.  Three heavily stocked ponds with very big fish.  After fishing there for awhile, I found out where the term "shooting fish in a barrel" came from.  It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

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Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements If they’re Orvis endorsed I’m sure Dave can pull some strings<g. — Charlie…

these waters, in a sense, are orvis endorsed. to fish them, you hafta arrange a guide trip at the orvis shop. I believe it’s $450.00. is it fake. well, in the sense that there ain’t no other stream in the state with fish like this…sure, it’s unreal, afterall, they are fed daily. are they big fish….well, they’re mighty damn big fish! kamloops, browns and rainbows, many well over 30". the biggest brookies i’ve ever seen, some 24"+. california golden trout in the 24" range. 100’s of fish between 12" & 24". it’s a sight to see, but it ain’t "real." does that mean i don’t fish it? hell, are you crazy? i’ll  fish it every time i’m lucky enough to wrangle an invite, which appropriately, is just once this year. there is a thrill involved with a 30"+ fish on a 3wt…even if it is "fake." is it wise to sneak in there….go ahead boys…. make terry’s day, or should i say, make his wolves day! yup…wolves. btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool. walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool.

Do you think there’s a chance that if we told him what we’re planning (I’d be willing to give it a shot) that he might make certain allowances for us (reduced fee, no guide requirement, etc)? I think feeding the fish kinda crosses my own little line of what’s real and what’s fake, but as long as we’re gonna be in the area and all it would be nice to catch a really really big trout. –Steve

Response:

Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.

If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a

call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring

clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.

I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in

Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

Response:

Steve Z: <<or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife) Firt of all, wuss, you announce nothing to the dear lady — you tell or "inform" her that you are going fishing with the guys next May.   Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

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I’ve reformatted your announcement below for the less fortunate. Also, I saw Boone’s Fork listed on your page. Does this mean are you going to talk your friends at Boone’s Fork into letting us fish their "fake fishing" stretch–or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt

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-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.    Indian Joe

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-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.  Indian Joe

sorry ij…i guess the html kilt it. i’ll try again. ***ANNOUNCING*** The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt Hope to see ya there. Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  ’00 R.O.F.F. Spring Fling Hope to see ya there. Walt

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Question:

Need info about fishing on the Pecos River above Cowles NM. Thank you

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For dries – use a size 12 or so stimulator "mimics the grass-hoppers and stone-flies in the area, also an elk-hairs caddis works well. Nymphs – any of the bead-head nymphs will work. Best if you can fish it during/after the stone fly hatch with a stimulator. -Mike

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I am planning a trip to NE New Mexico to do some fly fishing in early Aug.  Need help with camping, suggestions on where to fish, flies, etc.,etc.  Newbie to newsgroup and newbie to fly fishing. Hal

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In article I am planning a trip to NE New Mexico to do some fly fishing in early Aug.  Need help with camping, suggestions on where to fish, flies, etc.,etc.  Newbie to newsgroup and newbie to fly fishing. Hal

Look at this website for reprts:  http://www.gmfsh.state.nm.us/ Other useful information may be found here:   http://www.thereellife.com/reellife/reports.htm Good Luck!

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Question:

Give me a ‘desecrated fishery’ in solitude any day of the

But if it was "in solitude" it wouldn’t be desecrated.  My point is that desecration comes from problems much deeper than C&R.  I can show you plenty of desecrated C&K fisheries.  Have you fished the Miracle Mile? — -Wayne Trzyna

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[deleted] But you and I have both lived and fished in Colorado long enough to have seen fisheries desecrated long before the recent upsurge in the popularity of C&R flyfishing.  C&R the source of our problems?  Do you really believe that?

Yes I do.  Give me a ‘desecrated fishery’ in solitude any day of the week over a tailwater stock pond with hordes of fishermen. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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and the only pure C&K places I have seen are fish farms<g. pure C&R stretches are more like fish farms then real fishing to me. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

What about fishing in the salt? Most saltwater fly fishing is c&r. –tony

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pure C&R stretches are more like fish farms then real fishing to me. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Most of them are extremely crowded fish farms. Willi

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We nailed 19-20 inch cutts this weekend.  And I’ll be god damned if I’ll tell any pure C&R-er where they are.  You see, a C&K-er might go nail a few, but a C&R-er is likely to commercialize the place and have my best friend Dave banned from ever going there. See the danger ?

Well, yes and no.  I’ve been following your arguments for several years, Tim, and while I see your point on some stuff, there is one major weakness: Unable to deal with the bigger problems of commercialization, development, and over-crowding of fisheries, you constantly scape-goat C&R. C&R is a symptom, not a cause.  It is no surprise that its religious fervor has grown greatest at high-visibility destination fisheries, since the outfitters there were quick to recognize that their livelihood was being threatened by over-fishing. But the problems of commercialization, development, and crowding are bigger than just fly-fishing or C&R.   There is always some unwitting well-meaning soul who will tell his friends about a good fishery, and on down the line, some blatantly selfish bastard seeking to profit by exploiting an area The latter comes in many forms, including real-estate developers and slimey policitians financing tax-cuts by selling or leasing off public assets. It’s a big problem, and we seem only to loose ground.  With such frustrating problems it’s easy to throw up our hands and seek a scape-goat.  I guess yours is C&R. But you and I have both lived and fished in Colorado long enough to have seen fisheries desecrated long before the recent upsurge in the popularity of C&R flyfishing.  C&R the source of our problems?  Do you really believe that?  I admit, the whole C&R fly-fishing "scene" is tightly interwoven with the problem and makes a great symbol for it.  But it’s a symtom.  You can eliminate C&R, but you won’t eliminate the problem. Your best bet is not to tell *anyone* about your secret cutthroat hole. It has nothing to do with C&R.  Zebco has a bigger cash-flow than Sage. — -Wayne Trzyna

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and the only pure C&K places I have seen are fish farms<g.

pure C&R stretches are more like fish farms then real fishing to me. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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[a very typical multi use urban watershed described, deleted] While your point may apply in other places or conditions, in this case I think: Yes, the non-C&R public does not deserve access to their land.

I’m sorry Steve, but this really, really is what bugs me about pure C&R fishing.  Elitism.  Pure and simple.  I watched my friend Dave Erickson, a swede with fish blood in his veins, pick the cans and crap out of someone elses camp pit yesterday as we packed out…. Dave is a troller, a flyfisher, a bait fisher, a lure caster… No, Dave is just an angler…and he deserves access to that stretch you described.  As much or more then even you… And, I’ll tell you what… We nailed 19-20 inch cutts this weekend.  And I’ll be god damned if I’ll tell any pure C&R-er where they are.  You see, a C&K-er might go nail a few, but a C&R-er is likely to commercialize the place and have my best friend Dave banned from ever going there. See the danger ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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[deleted] How does that "overcrowded and food deficit situation" occur? (honest question). Fish at high altitude have a rough go of it.  Brookies reproduce like guppies and there is not enough food (because of mommy nature) and not enough predation (because of daddy dearest).

I have fished some high altitude steams and lakes (ponds really) in Colorado but none of them were C&R. In fact I don’t think I have ever fished in a ‘pure’ C&R stream, and the only pure C&K places I have seen are fish farms<g. — Charlie…

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…snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In terms of multiple use of the waterway and crap in the bushes, why is C&R the answer to a littering problem…?  This has come up before and it bugs me. It is saying to the general public that does not flyfish that they are not welcome on their own public land. Finally…*pure* C&R is never necessary, this is plain scientific fact.  "Restricted Selective Harvest" is a much much better watch phrase for our community, IMO as it is based in science and not philosophy and can not be targetted s such. Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

My home water is a mountain stream on "public" land at high elevation.  The trout population is mostly rainbow with a few cutts and crosses up high, and a few Dolly Varden.  We also have a summer steelhead and salmon run.  All the trout are wild and, because of the elevation, and the resulting short season, the fish must struggle a bit to survive.  The substrate is relatively alkaline however, so the fish food is good when the water finally warms up.  Lots of caddis, stone and mays, as well a "mountain" terrestrials — mostly termites and ants.  I’ve also seen a few sculpins.  Water level varies widely, from 500+ cfs in winter and spring, to 50-70 cfs in autumn. This stream’s drainage is also a recreation destination for four-wheelers and campers who live in the nearby metropolis, and is also a popular hunting area.  Much of the drainage has been logged in that last thirty years and the only old-growth forest remaining occurs in small patches — very few as large as a full section. This little speech serves as preface for my point: I have never seen a C&R fly fisher litter the stream or vandalize the forest.  I have seen all manner of disgusting behavior from other users.  Abandoned cars are the largest (and most easily removed) of the garbage that is dumped along the river, and trees have been hacked or shot down at every "campsite".  It’s amazing what a semi-automatic rifle will do to a stand of young firs.  I have also seen dead herons, crows, kites and ouzels.  I have seen four-wheel drive vehicles driving up the middle of the stream though perfect spawning beds.  I have also seen ten little six-inch or less rainbows laid out in a frying pan over a fire next to the river.  The limit on this steam is 2 over 12. I spend ten to thirty hours a week on this stream and I know most of the C&R fishers who frequent it.  None of them are among the criminal population mentioned above.   While your point may apply in other places or conditions, in this case I think: Yes, the non-C&R public does not deserve access to their land. Steve

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[lots deleted] I think Selective Harvest in the situation described is completely ethical, while in a body with low populations, C&R makes more sense.

Isn’t pure C&R a form of Selective Harvest when that mortality which is incidental to pure C&R equals that culling which is optimal for maintaining or increasing the quality of a fishery.  If any amount of culling would be detrimental, then the fishery should be closed (to wit the greenies in RMNP) and not open to number counting C&R fanatics. I’d be happy if we shit-canned the phrase C&R in favor of selective harvest… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Charlie Choc writes: <<I fish mostly in N GA where the streams are primarily stocked and "catch and stock freezer" is practiced. Many times I have seen folks following the stock trucks around and fishing out the pools, often ‘releasing’ smaller fish from their stringers to make room for bigger ones I had the pleasure of fishing the Chatooga River in N.E Ga this past March and saw the exact same thing.  

I just found out the other day the the Chatooga has some rather historical significance as well.  It’s where Deliverance was filmed. John Fereira

Response:

: : "It should be considered unethical to practice pure C&R : :  on a species of wild fish when that population : :  is in a overcrowded and food deficit situation." : Why?  We do not have gills (at least I don’t.)  Are you sure we are a : natural predator of the trout? The other post did a good job of questioning your reasoning of us not being a natural predator, but if you still think we aren’t, why make it a point anyways? Stunted western brook trout populations certainly aren’t "natural", and for that matter bows (mostly) and browns aren’t either. : I doubt the big fish practice C&R… let them do the natural : selection.   In many of these populations there *are no* big fish, no gill-based predators. : This is among the weakest arguments you have provided on this : topic.   Go to your room Tim. Watch out for the rebound  [sed s/Tim/Rick/g] JonCook.

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: : How does that "overcrowded and food deficit situation" occur? (honest : question). Umm, good spawning habitat and not enough fish-eating predators? Surely you’ve caught stunted, big-headed [brookies, bluegill, bass, etc] somewhere? JonCook.

Actually not in ‘the wild’. I have fished farm ponds with an overpopulation of bluegill but they usually just poisoned the pond and restocked it. Still not sure what that has to do with C&R vs C&K, what if there were no fishing at all? Seems like the situation would take care of itself over time. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Charlie Choc writes: <<I fish mostly in N GA where the streams are primarily stocked and "catch and stock freezer" is practiced. Many times I have seen folks following the stock trucks around and fishing out the pools, often ‘releasing’ smaller fish from their stringers to make room for bigger ones I had the pleasure of fishing the Chatooga River in N.E Ga this past March and saw the exact same thing.   I just found out the other day the the Chatooga has some rather historical significance as well.  It’s where Deliverance was filmed. John Fereira

The movie was also filmed on the Talulla River (west of the Chatooga). I think that the big falls that Bert and the boys went over was on the Talulla. I used to fish a lot on the Talulla over twenty years ago when I lived in Georgia. North Georgia had some really pretty trout waters, I hope that it still does.

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[deleted] How does that "overcrowded and food deficit situation" occur? (honest question).

Fish at high altitude have a rough go of it.  Brookies reproduce like guppies and there is not enough food (because of mommy nature) and not enough predation (because of daddy dearest). — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Charlie Choc writes: <<I fish mostly in N GA where the streams are primarily stocked and "catch and stock freezer" is practiced. Many times I have seen folks following the stock trucks around and fishing out the pools, often ‘releasing’ smaller fish from their stringers to make room for bigger ones I had the pleasure of fishing the Chatooga River in N.E Ga this past March and saw the exact same thing.  A majority of the fishermen were bait chuckers and spin casters.  The Chatooga is one of the few cold water rivers in Georgia capable of sustaining temperatures below 74 degrees, besides tailwaters (Chatahoochi below Bufford Dam for instance).  The pity of it is that the state has not made the Chatooga a catch and release river.  I know there is controversy on ROFF about catch and release, but on the Chatooga, it would make sense.  A majority of the fish released are caught within 24 hours.  But the thing that concerns me is the up-keep of the river.  The area around Burrells Ford is one giant trash heap.  Crap in the water, the woods, the road, you name it.  I walked upstream for about two miles before I got away from the chaos that the Chatooga has become.  It is a wonderfully beautiful river, not unlike what you might find in Maine.  If the state of Georgia does not do something quickly, they will lose this natural waterway.  Make it catch and release — no more stocking above the Rt 28 bridge.  If they don’t, it will soon look like the fair ground on Monday morning after the circus has left.

Couple O’ Questions and an observation… What is the biggest fish taken from Chatooga each year ? What would the effect of a selective harvest of say 1 fish of this size per day per angler, all others must be released, regulation be ? Do the fish reproduce successfully in the Chatooga ? In terms of multiple use of the waterway and crap in the bushes, why is C&R the answer to a littering problem…?  This has come up before and it bugs me. It is saying to the general public that does not flyfish that they are not welcome on their own public land. Finally…*pure* C&R is never necessary, this is plain scientific fact.  "Restricted Selective Harvest" is a much much better watch phrase for our community, IMO as it is based in science and not philosophy and can not be targetted s such. Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

From my journal… "It should be considered unethical to practice pure C&R  on a species of wild fish when that population  is in a overcrowded and food deficit situation." In other words, I will try not to throw rubber bones to starving dogs… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: From my journal… : "It should be considered unethical to practice pure C&R :  on a species of wild fish when that population :  is in a overcrowded and food deficit situation." Why?  We do not have gills (at least I don’t.)  Are you sure we are a natural predator of the trout? I doubt the big fish practice C&R… let them do the natural selection.  This is among the weakest arguments you have provided on this topic.   Go to your room Tim. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: From my journal… : "It should be considered unethical to practice pure C&R :  on a species of wild fish when that population :  is in a overcrowded and food deficit situation."

Consider that soon the human race will be stunted.  Do you think we’ll have big heads and little bodies? Why?  We do not have gills (at least I don’t.)  Are you sure we are a natural predator of the trout? I doubt the big fish practice C&R… let them do the natural selection.  This is among the weakest arguments you have provided on this topic.   Go to your room Tim.

Hmm.   It’s a plausible theory, Rick, but only a theory.  I know of many, many alpine lakes that are overpopulated with stunted fish.  There is size-threshold beyond which the fish just don’t grow. I’ve seen this condition with each of the following species:         brookies  (brookies, brookies, and more brookies)         cutts         bows         goldens The limiting factor is not genetic, either.  For instance the Montana dept of fish and game takes goldens out of Sylvan lake, where they are stunted, and plants them in other lakes where they grow to large sizes. Now that you mention it, I can’t understand why predation doesn’t solve the problem. — -Wayne Trzyna (Bobber Boy)

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From my journal… "It should be considered unethical to practice pure C&R on a species of wild fish when that population is in a overcrowded and food deficit situation." In other words, I will try not to throw rubber bones to starving dogs…

How does that "overcrowded and food deficit situation" occur? (honest question). I fish mostly in N GA where the streams are primarily stocked and "catch and stock freezer" is practiced. Many times I have seen folks following the stock trucks around and fishing out the pools, often ‘releasing’ smaller fish from their stringers to make room for bigger ones. That seems to be about as pur C&K as one can get<g. Is it the ‘wild fish’ designation that makes the difference? — Charlie…

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: From my journal… : "It should be considered unethical to practice pure C&R :  on a species of wild fish when that population :  is in a overcrowded and food deficit situation." Why?  We do not have gills (at least I don’t.)  Are you sure we are a natural predator of the trout? I doubt the big fish practice C&R… let them do the natural selection.  This is among the weakest arguments you have provided on this topic.   Go to your room Tim.

I just don’t think you read it… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: From my journal… : "It should be considered unethical to practice pure C&R :  on a species of wild fish when that population :  is in a overcrowded and food deficit situation." Why?  We do not have gills (at least I don’t.)  Are you sure we are a natural predator of the trout?

Hmmm, are bears a natural predator of the trout?  They don’t have gills. What about Herons or other kinds of birds that feed on fish.  They don’t have gills either.  Should we therefore deem these animals to be somehow in the wrong to catch fish.  Shall I proceed further?  Would we consider hunting regulations to be unethical when, due to an increase in population the bag limit increases?  Is this not the same issue? I doubt the big fish practice C&R… let them do the natural selection.  This is among the weakest arguments you have provided on this topic.   Go to your room Tim.

I’m sorry, but, this is one of the strongest arguments which could be presented on this subject.  Perhaps we should apply this "C&R" concept to hunting.  I’m sure many hunters would agree that "the thrill of the hunt" is the most important part of hunting and the game they get to keep afterwards for food is a pleasurable byproduct of the hunt.  Should we therefore define hunters who kill their quarry unethical?  Maybe we shouldn’t hunt deer because we don’t have antlers.  Should hunters be imposed with regulations which would require them to only use tranquilizer guns to shoot the game?  They could then "release" the game to be hunted again at a later date. It should be our ethical responsibility to catch and kill fish when they are in an overpopulated, undernourished environment.  The results otherwise will end in large numbers of fish dying.  Then, depending upon extent of the fish kill, there is the time of repopulation.  It is more "humane" (take that as you may) to be allowed to "remove" a certain number of the population of any game species to prevent these things from happening. Mr. Fletcher, the logic which you are using to argue your point is fundamentally flawed.  Tim’s post could not have been more on track. I apologize to anyone who found the length of this response offensive.  I do not apologize for the content. John

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If I remember my basic biology right, there may not be any big fish to do the natural selection. Each body of water has a carrying capacity of so many pounds per acre of life. If that number was, say, 10 lbs. then there could be one 10 lb. fish, 10 one lb. fish or 100 one-tenth pound fish. Mother Nature doesn’t care. When the body of water reaches capacity, fish populations start to stunt and all you have are small fish. As far as mankind being a natural predator for trout, we rank right up there with bears, raccoons, eagles and many other critters without gills. I think Selective Harvest in the situation described is completely ethical, while in a body with low populations, C&R makes more sense. — Web-Guides.com on the Internet at — http://web-guides.com FREE sample issue, subscription to Outdoor Adventure Digest     Webtours, Outdoor Adventures, ABC Books and more<< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : From my journal… : "It should be considered unethical to practice pure C&R :  on a species of wild fish when that population :  is in a overcrowded and food deficit situation." Why?  We do not have gills (at least I don’t.)  Are you sure we are a natural predator of the trout? I doubt the big fish practice C&R… let them do the natural selection.  This is among the weakest arguments you have provided on this topic.   Go to your room Tim. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Charlie Choc writes:

<<I fish mostly in N GA where the streams are primarily stocked and "catch and stock freezer" is practiced. Many times I have seen folks following the stock trucks around and fishing out the pools, often ‘releasing’ smaller fish from their stringers to make room for bigger ones I had the pleasure of fishing the Chatooga River in N.E Ga this past March and saw the exact same thing.  A majority of the fishermen were bait chuckers and spin casters.  The Chatooga is one of the few cold water rivers in Georgia capable of sustaining temperatures below 74 degrees, besides tailwaters (Chatahoochi below Bufford Dam for instance).  The pity of it is that the state has not made the Chatooga a catch and release river.  I know there is controversy on ROFF about catch and release, but on the Chatooga, it would make sense.  A majority of the fish released are caught within 24 hours.  But the thing that concerns me is the up-keep of the river.  The area around Burrells Ford is one giant trash heap.  Crap in the water, the woods, the road, you name it.  I walked upstream for about two miles before I got away from the chaos that the Chatooga has become.  It is a wonderfully beautiful river, not unlike what you might find in Maine.  If the state of Georgia does not do something quickly, they will lose this natural waterway.  Make it catch and release — no more stocking above the Rt 28 bridge.  If they don’t, it will soon look like the fair ground on Monday morning after the circus has left. Dave LaCourse

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Question:

Fished the Cellar on 6/15 & 6/17 between 18:30 and  22:00 and they were taking spinners (looked like mayfly 14-18). I started with tan & rust caddis and after several refusals I switched to small elk hair cahills and got a small brown and a chubber. Noticed several carcasses on my line and began peering at the water it was loaded with spinners in and below the film. I changed to a lame kind of trico/frankenstien spinner that I tied with a clump of CDC and BANG ! a nice fat, very active brown destroyed it. Picked fish thereafter at an acceptable rate. As an aside, I went Salt water catching for stripers earlier in the day on 6/17 and my first hour of casts on the Hous were a PANIC ! I threw that fly out there so fast that fish in the Sand hole were put down ! No shortage of fish at any of the other places I stopped (One car, Two car). What great nights. Lets go Alders !!! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

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Well, it was not a bad weekend at the Housie. Got there on Thursday and stayed until Monday.  Here is a brief synopsis of events. Water temps were excellent.  Morning temps were about 64 and evening temps were about 70-72.  Dam is doing pond & release (up by 1 pm and going down at about 5-6pm.  Have no idea how lack of water will affect this.  There was no rain the previous week but it poured Friday Night. Everything was hatching for this time of the year (cahill, isonychia (sp?), sulfur, caddis, etc.), EXCEPT the Alder.  As of Monday morning at Push ‘Em Up, no Alders in sight, although I did get Phil’s (Orvis Fly Shop) guarantee that it was going to hatch that Sunday night!  Oh well. Morning fishing was from lousy to non-existent.  Fished Push ‘Em Up, Cellar Hole, Long Pool, & Campground to little or no avail.  HFFA members left over from the previous camping weekend said that morning fishing had been difficult all week. Evening fishing, on the other hand, was very good.  Cahill hatches by the truck load just before dark.  All holes seemed to be good, especially in front of the campground (like my last report).  The fish started after emergers at about 7-7:30 and were fully rising by dark. Sunday night they were hitting extremely strange at Carse.  Only caught one out of over a dozen hits and about 5 drops!  The only reason I caught him was that he rolled over the fly and I fouled him behind the pectoral! That’s it for now.  Don’t know about my next trip.  I am trying to get my Dad back down to the Beaverkill again, but I don’t know.  Cannot plan for the Housatonic Quill (White Fly) hatch in August as the "80 degree" river shut down rule may be in effect!  They have already changed the restricted dates on the tributaries.  That went into effect on 15 June. – Mike (Please remove the "NOSPAM." from my address and domain before responding) P.S. – Asking a favor!  For anyone who camps at the Housie, conditions are MISERABLE.  Things are not getting repaired (backed up toilet, sink, shut off water pump, grass not cut, felled trees not cut up, etc.)  If you have time, PLEASE write a letter to the DEP and complain.  I have been going to this place for 25 years, and I am getting really disgusted.  If anyone feels the same way, please write.  Thanx.

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Question:

I am looking for a new or secondhand Hardy #4 fly reel to match a Loomis #4 IMX rod. Marquis #4 or #5 , Golden Prince 5/6 or JLH Ultralite #4 or #5. Any info will be of great help. Thanks

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I am looking for a new or secondhand Hardy #4 fly reel to match a Loomis #4 IMX rod. Marquis #4 or #5 , Golden Prince 5/6 or JLH Ultralite #4 or #5. Any info will be of great help. Thanks

Contact Timeless Tackle in Edinburgh Scotland at 44-131-667-1407 or FAX 44-131-662-4215.  They deal in used and antique fishing gear and their list always seems to have a large selection of Hardy equipment. Ken Barry

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No more. As far as I know there are no quality fly fihing areas within 1-2 hrs of Detroit. 3 hours will take you to the Au Sable and Manistee rivers which are quality fisheries. There is a very good book on fishing in Michigan. I think the author is Linnsman. I will get more specific info to you. Steve Rosenblum, Ann Arbor Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, Michigan Actually there is good brook trout FFishing within an hour of Detroit.   Try the Huron River.  There are several Metroparks along the river that provide access.  I haven’t fished it myself (because I didn’t have my gear with me at the time), but I saw several other FFisherpersons and I saw the 10"-16" fish.  The river is wadeable.  Try either the Hudson Mills Metropark or Dexter Huron Metropark.  On a AAA map of "Detroit and Southeast MI" you will find them at roughly coordinates 8K and 8L respectively (just west of Ann Arbor).  Good Luck.

  Actually, those fish you were seeing were probably smallies, cause I don’t think the Huron is clear or cool enough to sustain trout.

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Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No more. As far as I know there are no quality fly fihing areas within 1-2 hrs of Detroit. 3 hours will take you to the Au Sable and Manistee rivers which are quality fisheries. There is a very good book on fishing in Michigan. I think the author is Linnsman. I will get more specific info to you. Steve Rosenblum, Ann Arbor Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, Michigan

Actually there is good brook trout FFishing within an hour of Detroit.   Try the Huron River.  There are several Metroparks along the river that provide access.  I haven’t fished it myself (because I didn’t have my gear with me at the time), but I saw several other FFisherpersons and I saw the 10"-16" fish.  The river is wadeable.  Try either the Hudson Mills Metropark or Dexter Huron Metropark.  On a AAA map of "Detroit and Southeast MI" you will find them at roughly coordinates 8K and 8L respectively (just west of Ann Arbor).  Good Luck.

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You are quite right Jay.  Those were smallmouth bass and the water is too warm to support trout.  I checked with the DNR and learned that the 5 mile stretch of the Huron River below Dexter is catch and release.  This has helped to improve the smallmouth population.  According to the DNR, they shock the river each spring for reasearch.  They have found smallies up to 21 inches along with rock bass, creek chubs and hog suckers.  In addition, I learned that they stock Proud Lake (within an hour of Detroit) with rainbows and browns.

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: Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly : fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No : more. : As far as I know there are no quality fly fihing areas within 1-2 hrs of : Detroit. 3 hours will take you to the Au Sable and Manistee rivers which : are quality fisheries. There is a very good book on fishing in Michigan. I : think the author is Linnsman. I will get more specific info to you. There are scores of quality fly fishing areas within an hour’s drive…unless you’re the sort who thinks ‘quality’ necessarily implies ‘trout’ I know of a number of great bluegill spots within 30 minutes of home, and as one fisherman I met put it, bluegills are ‘gram for gram, the fightingest fish there are!" And there are plenty of bass, pike, carp and many other species that are great fun on a fly, all close enough for after work fishing. Matter of fact, tonight a friend (who belongs to a very nice trout club with a private stream) and I are off to one of our favorite ponds to match wits with the wiley bluegill- and it’s only 20 minutes from home. –mike

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Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No more. — Dasu Baregala 123 E 8th St Moscow ID 83843-3009 (208) 883 – 9538

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Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No

more. As far as I know there are no quality fly fihing areas within 1-2 hrs of Detroit. 3 hours will take you to the Au Sable and Manistee rivers which are quality fisheries. There is a very good book on fishing in Michigan. I think the author is Linnsman. I will get more specific info to you. Steve Rosenblum, Ann Arbor Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, Michigan

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