Question:

Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

Alex, There are many rivers that are legally open in Vermont.  The question is whether they are open due to ice.  Two good bets, weather dependent, are the Winooski River and Lewis Creek.  Hatches are scant.  Wooly buggers are your best bet, as well as other streamers.  Brown stoneflies can be around if the spring is early. Stream flows are a coin toss from downright perrfect to flood to a July trickle depending on rain and snowfall.  Good luck and I would be happy to answer any other questions you might have. Vermont Outdoors Magazine 2 Church Street Burlington, VT 05401 (802) 860-0003 Fax: (802) 860-0005 http://www.vermontoutdoors.com

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Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

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Question:

I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

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I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for?

Soitenly! Look for a Garmin GPSIII+ /daytripper

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The Garmin GPSIII+ typically acquires satellites and computes it’s initial position in less than a minute.  The downloadable maps include lots of coastal data, markers, buoys, etc.  I use one inland on streams, rivers and lakes.  email me directly if you want more info.  Also you might want to look at the usegroup : sci.geo.satellite-nav.  Lots of experienced folks there as well. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

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I can put off buying the unit until spring although it would be convenient to have it sooner.  Do you see anything changing in terms of new products or enhancements that would warrant waiting? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Garmin GPSIII+ typically acquires satellites and computes it’s initial position in less than a minute.  The downloadable maps include lots of coastal data, markers, buoys, etc.  I use one inland on streams, rivers and lakes.  email me directly if you want more info.  Also you might want to look at the usegroup : sci.geo.satellite-nav.  Lots of experienced folks there as well. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.               — Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

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Hard to say.  My personal expectation is that there will be a version available with more internal flash memory, sometime in the spring.  The GPSIII+ has 1.44 megs in additional to the (good) base map.  Take a look at  www.joe.mehaffey.com .  That’s sort of a "clearing house" for current GPS info. And, start looking at/participating in/ the newsgroup that I mentioned.  Since this is not a germane subject for most flyfishers, email me directly for follow-on info. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can put off buying the unit until spring although it would be convenient to have it sooner.  Do you see anything changing in terms of new products or enhancements that would warrant waiting? The Garmin GPSIII+ typically acquires satellites and computes it’s initial position in less than a minute.  The downloadable maps include lots of coastal data, markers, buoys, etc.  I use one inland on streams, rivers and lakes.  email me directly if you want more info.  Also you might want to look at the usegroup : sci.geo.satellite-nav.  Lots of experienced folks there as well. Tom I understand that there can be a significant difference in terms of how fast a gps can get a bearing between modals.  I am looking for a gps for fly fishing saltwater.  I will want to be able to mark channels, fishing spots, etc.  Can anyone with experience advise me on what to look for? JK

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Question:

I am looking for a web site that has salt water fly tying. I am going to Key West in June and I would like to tie some flies before I go. Any ideas?

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Try http://www.mindspring.com jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a web site that has salt water fly tying. I am going to Key West in June and I would like to tie some flies before I go. Any ideas?

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I apologize my previous post was a bum address try  http://www.mindspring.com/~joeb3   Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a web site that has salt water fly tying. I am going to Key West in June and I would like to tie some flies before I go. Any ideas?

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Thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I apologize my previous post was a bum address try  http://www.mindspring.com/~joeb3  Jim I am looking for a web site that has salt water fly tying. I am going to Key West in June and I would like to tie some flies before I go. Any ideas?

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Try http://www.reel-time.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a web site that has salt water fly tying. I am going to Key West in June and I would like to tie some flies before I go. Any ideas?

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Try Joe Branham’s page www.mindspring.com/~joeb3

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I am looking for a web site that has salt water fly tying. I am going to Key West in June and I would like to tie some flies before I go. Any ideas?

Hi JG, I try to get some sample patterns from someone who fishes the area. I would order some samples of the patterns for the fish that you are after. There are lots of things going on in FL in April/May/June. Example: If you are not renting a boat or going with a guide, you won’t need any tarpon flies, so why tie any? On foot, the most popular thing to fly fish for are bonefish. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

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Hi, I maybe heading to the Lower Deschutes during the third week in May.  Does anyone know what I can expect as to the fishing that time of year ?  What hatches, river levels etc.,  What weight rod would be the best ?  Any recommendations to local advice/fly shops. Thanks in advance.

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Hi, I maybe heading to the Lower Deschutes during the third week in May.  Does anyone know what I can expect as to the fishing that time of year ?  What hatches, river levels etc.,  What weight rod would be the best ?  Any recommendations to local advice/fly shops. Thanks in advance.

WIth snow levels this year, I think you can probably expect high water; snow pack is about double a normal year. A 9 foot, five weight rod with a floating line will work for most situations you’ll encounter on the Deschutes. Deep nymphing is the most consistently successful method on the lower river. The salmonfly hatch should be getting started, as well as the golden stoneflies. BIG, heavily weighted stonefly nymphs in black and gold. Black and golden stimulators for the adults. Caddis: Rhyacophilia, hydropsyche, Glossoma, Brachycentra: larvae, pupae, and adults. Mayflies: Baetis, Heptagenia, maybe some early PMDs. Midges. Local shops: The Deschutes Canyon fly shop in Maupin, The Fly Fishing Shop in Welches.

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To the best of my knowledge, the weights I provided in my earlier post are generally applicably to various types of fly lines including floating, sinking, DT, etc. To check this out, I tried the "weigh the first 30 feet" method on a sinking "Rocket Taper" line that I knew to be a #7, and it weighed-out correctly at just slightly over the nominal given for a #7 line. Also, even though the weight of the first 30 feet of this line is essentially the same as its #7 floating counterpart, the sinking line is much thinner than the floating, thereby increasing its density. The more I think about this, the more sense it makes. Since the weight of the line is matched to the rod (so that the latter loads properly) you’d want to have the same rod loading behavior regardless of the type of line, it’s taper, and whether floating or sinking. So, since the rod doesn’t care about the thickness of the line, the first 30 feet of all #7 lines (for example) should have about the same weight. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

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Going through some old fishing stuff last weekend, I came upon a reel I used a few years ago, before I "got serious" about fly fishing. I have completely forgotten what weight line I have on this reel, although I am confident it’s a floating DT. I’ve been advised that the only way to infer the weight of this line is to cast it on various rods until I find a rod weight on which it "feels right." I’m willing to give this a try, but first wanted to ask the newsgroup if there are any other techniques (measuring, weighing, etc.) that can give me a close approximation? Also, to avoid a repeat of this problem, how do folks who have multiple lines lying around "mark" them so this crutial information isn’t lost? Thanks. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

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Going through some old fishing stuff last weekend, I came upon a reel I used a few years ago, before I "got serious" about fly fishing. I have completely forgotten what weight line I have on this reel, although I am confident it’s a floating DT. I’ve been advised that the only way to infer the weight of this line is to cast it on various rods until I find a rod weight on which it "feels right." I’m willing to give this a try, but first wanted to ask the newsgroup if there are any other techniques (measuring, weighing, etc.) that can give me a close approximation? Also, to avoid a repeat of this problem, how do folks who have multiple lines lying around "mark" them so this crutial information isn’t lost? Thanks. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

Hi bill, We use a micrometer to measure the belly of the line. We can tell what weight they are from the diameter using factory charts. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going through some old fishing stuff last weekend, I came upon a reel I used a few years ago, before I "got serious" about fly fishing. I have completely forgotten what weight line I have on this reel, although I am confident it’s a floating DT. I’ve been advised that the only way to infer the weight of this line is to cast it on various rods until I find a rod weight on which it "feels right." I’m willing to give this a try, but first wanted to ask the newsgroup if there are any other techniques (measuring, weighing, etc.) that can give me a close approximation? Also, to avoid a repeat of this problem, how do folks who have multiple lines lying around "mark" them so this crutial information isn’t lost? Thanks. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

Fly lines are rated by the weight of their first thirty feet.  You can weigh this amount of line if you have a powder scale or other suitable scale and compare the known weight of the line against a standard.    If you don’t have a chart and can’t find one at the local fly shop, send me a note. I have a chart around somewhere. — Tim Ackerman "everyone lives downstream"

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Also, to avoid a repeat of this problem, how do folks who have multiple lines lying around "mark" them so this crutial information isn’t lost? Thanks.

Mark your reels with a piece of white tape such as used for price tags. You can either type or mark with indelible pen the type and weight of line on the reel. Do this for all reels. Who knows which reel is going to lay around next long enough to be forgotten. Regards, Steve

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Thanks to all who responded. I dug out an old powder scale and have successfully identified the weight of my mystery line by weighing the first 30 feet. The process of doing this is a little awkward, but it worked well. I tested this approach on a line that I knew to be a #8, and the first 30 feet weighed out at 211 grains … almost right on the nominal 210 grains in published data. For others in the newsgroup that may want to try this technique, here’s a table of weights per first 30 feet for different lines (BTW, there are 7,000 grains per pound). I got the weight values below from the excellent and graphically-intensive book "The Curtis Creek Manifesto" acquired from Timberline Sporting Goods in Casper, Wyoming. AFTMA Weight #   Grains/1st 30 feet 4           120 5           140 6           160 7           185 8           210 9           240 10          280 The technique I used to weigh my lines was to strip and measure 30 feet of fly line off my reel, bundle it (as one would a rope), and then set the bundle on the scale with the rest of the flyline resting gently on the benchtop. In one case, I left the leader attached as well, also allowing this to rest on the benchtop. The leader and remaining line will affect the weight measurement, but I found this affect to be only a few grains … not enough to make the line weight catagorization ambiguous. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all who responded. I dug out an old powder scale and have successfully identified the weight of my mystery line by weighing the first 30 feet. The process of doing this is a little awkward, but it worked well. I tested this approach on a line that I knew to be a #8, and the first 30 feet weighed out at 211 grains … almost right on the nominal 210 grains in published data. For others in the newsgroup that may want to try this technique, here’s a table of weights per first 30 feet for different lines (BTW, there are 7,000 grains per pound). I got the weight values below from the excellent and graphically-intensive book "The Curtis Creek Manifesto" acquired from Timberline Sporting Goods in Casper, Wyoming. AFTMA Weight #   Grains/1st 30 feet 4           120 5           140 6           160 7           185 8           210 9           240 10          280 The technique I used to weigh my lines was to strip and measure 30 feet of fly line off my reel, bundle it (as one would a rope), and then set the bundle on the scale with the rest of the flyline resting gently on the benchtop. In one case, I left the leader attached as well, also allowing this to rest on the benchtop. The leader and remaining line will affect the weight measurement, but I found this affect to be only a few grains … not enough to make the line weight catagorization ambiguous. Bill Howe Boulder, CO

I assume this to be for a floating line. Did you come across ratings for weighted lines? (ie. sink tip, full weighted, etc.) B.

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AFTMA Weight #   Grains/1st 30 feet 4           120 5           140 6           160 7           185 8           210 9           240 10          280 Boulder, CO I assume this to be for a floating line. Did you come across ratings for

weighted lines? (ie. sink tip, full weighted, etc.) B.

No, it’s for ALL lines, floating, sink-tip, or sinking. To make a line sink, the weight is unchanged ( since changing it would change the casting characteristics…), but the _DENSITY_ is increased. In other words, a sinking section of line will be smaller in diameter than a floating line of a given weight, but will weigh the same. By further decreasing the cross-section of the line, you can make it sink even faster. (Now do we all understand why we pay so much for these things? <<grin ) — Delete "NOSPAM" in address above before replying!(fraggin’ morons…) Joe Ellis     o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |  TesserAct Studios ()XDarwin(;        Now on the Web at      | Cincinnati, OH 45240 / /~LL~~LL~  http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 |New Dimensions In Filk! Unsolicited commercial E-mail will be proofread at $25 hr/2 hr min.

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Question:

[some deleted] But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book.

I sense and share your frustration Mike.  Hang tough and keep up the good work. TimW

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The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year.

That is definitely a point we have to keep in mind. The message that started this thread made all sorts of dire pronouncements that any artificial material would be prohibited in fishing. As several people pointed out, that pretty much eliminates steel hooks, synthetic yarn, nylon monofilament leaders and much of what we use to fish with. It’s also the exact opposite of what was really being proposed. Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations. The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

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snip The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies.

snip I’m not sure I understand the concept of "unfair advantage" when it comes to fishing.  The first thing that came to mind was some fly fishermen being upset about bait working better (I know that’s not what you meant Michael). Ross Wilson

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Mike, I think there’s no doubt that a 3-inch Power Tube is an "artificial" under the new regulations. If it were less than 1.5 inches it would not be an artificial. After thinking more about your posts, however, I guess I’ve come around to your view that the new regs won’t cover a variety of possible situations, especially ones where there is scented material made part of a lure or fly over 1.5 inches long. Best wishes.  Jeff

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Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations.

Except the worm fishermen doesn’t lobby, pressure, or persuade those that we pay the big bucks to exclude the flyfishermen from their preferred methods of enjoyment. respectfully, Mike Miller

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry regards, Mike

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Ok Jeff, so answer this question please, Can you or can you not fish with a 3" BERKLEY POWER TUBE? regards, Mike

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry

Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year. Spinney Mountain Res. was the focus of much of the debate.  As you probably know Spinney is managed as "Gold Medal" Water with artificial  fly & lure only tackle restrictions and a one fish over 20" bag limit and the canyon  recently had Gold Medal regulations extended to the dam. My reference to purists, elitists, attitudes comes from experience fishing these waters and a witness to the debates over the issue at the commission meetings. On opening day 1995 at Spinney, there was a gentlemen fishing with power eggs. He had brought along the lawn chair and 4 young children. This guy caught about 6 trout that day on his chartreuse colored power eggs allowing each of the kids an opportunity to bring one in. He kept one and as far as I could tell no  harm came to the fish he released. But this guy came under heavy and constant critizism from the crowd (who were primarily fishless) because in their *holier than thou minds* he was a scondrel for using such a bait (although technically he was not breaking any laws.) Now, I will not dispute the fact that PASSIVELY fishing such a bait will probably kill alot of fish that by law have to be released. But at Spinney I have witnessed many a fine fish played to exhaustion, kept out of the water for extreme periods of time, (for the picture ceremony)  dropped on the rocks a couple of times, drug along the bank in the sand, and kicked back into the water because it was only 19 7/8" long. But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book. regards, Mike Miller

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions.

I was surprised (not pleasantly) to notice that Mike Miller was the only one of the many who commented on this who seemed to have actually read the regulation. Most others assumed that what Paul had "just heard" was the gospel truth, then proceeded to denigrate the DOW for being so asinine. It is pretty obvious that very few contemporary fishing flies could be tied without using artificial or synthetic materials. Even rayon thread would be prohibited by such a regulation. Besides, it would be virtually unenforceable and bad for public relations. To prohibit artificial material from an artificial lure such as a fly is counter to the whole idea behind bait regulations. They generally seek to limit the use of live bait and artificial substances which simulate live bait (such as power bait, etc.). It would not make sense for anyone to prohibit the use of artificial materials in an artificial lure. People would have to start carving their bass plugs out of wood again. My point is, on the face of it, this "report" of what Paul had "heard" is not credible and needs to be checked out before we go griping about what stupidity the DOW is currently engaged in. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

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J Let’s not forget that what they are *trying* to do is to find a J definition that excludes powerbait and its related "scented lure" J products. A good point.  Trying is the operative word here and sloppy legislation does not a good bill make.  Having lived in Denver for two years, I applaud setting waters aside for bait (power bait, although synthetic, is still bait IMHO) and artificial approaches. Heck, I _enjoy_ bait fishing once or twice a year for stockies. As a lifelong redneck I have drown my share of worms and crickets and defend anyone’s right to do so. It is up to the folks at wildlife to make sure that catch and keep does not endanger wild fish. Well, there’s my opinion anyway. But thanks for your post!      Trey Monroe

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For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish.

A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, peacock, and tan thorax regions?

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: A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator : has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, : how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, : peacock, and tan thorax regions? For me, they haven’t been nearly as effective as the orange color.  And I’m not certain the color triggers anything near a salmon egg… perhaps it looks like a big eye.  My point is that there are better imitations of the things you mention, but the Stimmy works well, often better. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

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Someone who has the new regulations, please read them and tell me if a 1.6 inch artificial Power Worm is artificial under the new regulation. My reading suggests that they are to be considered "artificial"

This issue arose at Spinney Mountain on opening day 1996, several individuals were using 3" Berkley Power Tubes. They looked identical  to other tube jigs (i.e. gitizits). The State Parks law enforcement officer  explained to me that according to his instructions they were lega, stating they were over 1 1/2". Also a DOW officer checked these fishermen and did not issue a citation or stop them from being used.   However, I contacted the DOW on this issue and at least one official said "no way, they cannot be used and that all  power bait is illegal. " As I stated in a previous post, except for obvious infractions (power eggs)  this law will be un-enforcable. Even the DOW is confused. regards, Mike Miller

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

No Colorado didn’t. I think I’ve heard that F&W is discussing not allowing power bait and other non-natural baits to be fished in the artificals only waters.

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Know any suppliers of barbless *bone* hooks?? — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not : use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, : it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Interesting, and really raises some issues.  For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as  power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions. It says something like anything less than 1 1/2 inches long cannot be made out of *plastic* or scented material. The question that has come up is what if it is over  1 1/2 inches long  (Berkley Power Tubes for example) or if  it is under 1 1/2inches does this exclude *foam* or even plastic tube jigs (unscented)? And can you add scent to a fly or lure less than 1 1/2 "? regards, Mike Miller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

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(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked. Don Burns

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(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Oh Yeah! Another reason to simply quit ffing and take up something else (billiards comes immediately to mind….) With all the problems facing the resource, and the sport in general, now the gov is picking at minutea (sp?). The saddest part is that an early and powerful proponent of synth materials for flies, John Betts, lives in Denver. If there is some percieved ecological threat with these materials why didn’t they look at those GD’d foam bobbers (strike indicators) that litter our streams too! Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked.

Good Point <G!  Sounds like our politicians are doing their best to screw everything up as usual.  Like with the Rimm Report! </chaz (not Sue)

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P I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not P use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, P it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Hmm, if it isn’t or hasn’t been alive and uses only sight attraction, not smell to attract fish, and you can cast it with a fly rod, that’s close enough to a fly for me. Besides, if this passes, will enforcement be forced to looking through people’s fly boxes to make sure that there is no crystal flash? What about nylon thread, rayon floss, or heavens to gimbles, micro fibbets tailing! Sounds like missplaced emphasis IMHO.      Trey Monroe

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Power Bait on the frying pan river…? Lucky Lou’s…? Getcha thumped…that’s fer sure… In practice, there is a VERY fine line (no pun intended) between a Glo-Bug and a Lucky Lou.  Or a Pittendrigh foam after a little fish slime and power bait.  Or a san Juan worm and a red wriggler.  It’s all in our heads man, that one is somehow better then the other…isn’t it ?   What is the difference between a Kastmaster and a Zonker ? TimW (In case you think that I miss the point….) I have retrieved slimy GloBugs from the gills and gullets of bleeding trout as deeply as shore chucked pautzkees. I have had wooly worms and buggers kill fish.  I have sent small trout flying into the bushes on a #14 adams on an ‘overzealous strike’.  Fish die man no matter WHAT you hook ‘em on…

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Question:

Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by Mr. Kaufman. Tim Obrey/ME

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Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by Mr. Kaufman.

Hi Tim, Kauffman’s fly tying books are each devoted exclusively to either dries or nymphs – your local library is correct. He is the author of a pattern "directory" that includes both dries and nymphs entitled "Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants". Best,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, California   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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Tim, Try www.amazon.com — Donn Westervelt 72633,342 CIS

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: Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a : beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet : flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my : local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by : Mr. Kaufman. Yup.  He has a new dry fly book, and a revised version of his nymph book. When I had to choose two (ONLY TWO) books on tying flies, to learn from, these were the two.  The illustrations are in color, and are very clear…with tricky points clearly described.  He discusses standard techniques fully.  The patterns are laid out in a "progressive" order so that you can learn quite a bit by tying each pattern in order (I’m about 2/3 of the way through both books).  Or you can jump around to your favorite pattern.  There’s a pattern directory in the back, listing many patterns not covered in the text WITH color PICTURES.  Also, each chapter has a little one or two page story having something to do with that pattern.  ALSO, there are excellent discussions of materials and tools. I now own FIVE books on fly tying: Talleur’s intro book (for my son), two books of patterns, and Kaufman’s two newer books. I strongly recommend these two books for anyone learning to tie flies. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

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Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by Mr. Kaufman. Tim Obrey/ME

Here’s a list of Randall Kaufmann’s books (I think it’s complete): American Nymph Fly Tying Manual (1975) Bonefishing with a Fly (1992) *The Fly Tyers Nymph Manual (1986) *Tying Dry Flies (1992) (there is also a revised edition) *Tying Nymphs (1992)         *= in-print Andy   A. M. Rapach–Angling Books Rare, Collectible & Used Angling      Books Bought and Sold <A HREF="http://www.westol.com/~andmr/fishbks"</A

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Randall Kaufmann has authored or coauthored several books covering fly tying and fly fishing for a variety of species. I think two books best suited for the beginning or advanced tyer are; Tying Nymphs, and Tying Dries. Randall is an excellent tier or tyer and has a gift of concise, easily understood writing. Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

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I got my first book on fly tying from the Federation of Fly Fishers. It is called an Introduction to Fly Tying by Al Beatty and Bob Lay. It only cost $2.00 plus S&H. I have since purchased a couple of videos by Al and they were really detailed. I don’t have his phone number but he often posts to this group. Stumbling along the fly fishing stream Ed

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by Mr. Kaufman. Tim Obrey/ME Here’s a list of Randall Kaufmann’s books (I think it’s complete): American Nymph Fly Tying Manual (1975) Bonefishing with a Fly (1992) *The Fly Tyers Nymph Manual (1986) *Tying Dry Flies (1992) (there is also a revised edition) *Tying Nymphs (1992)    *= in-print Andy  A. M. Rapach–Angling Books Rare, Collectible & Used Angling     Books Bought and Sold <A HREF="http://www.westol.com/~andmr/fishbks"</A

Add to the list: Lake Fishing with a Fly (1984) (co-authored with Ron Cordes) Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants (1995) Tight lines Jay Whitworth

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Question:

Green line sounds like a Cortland model.  Good luck.

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: It’s mine.  I lost it in 1993.  Please drop it in the mail and I’ll send : you the postage by return mail.  Thanks. : Rick Nice try Rick, I suppose my story will get a similar response!

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Don’t laugh I’m serious. I have a 7′ fly rod that I found at a drainage ditch a few years back. I had not used it until recently and have found that I really enjoy fly fishing. The reel is aluminum and it has some green line that looks like a nylon mesh with a plastic coating and a metal loop at the end to tie leader. However, it is starting to show signs of wear. I have looked for replacement line at some local stores but nothing seems comparable in weight and consistency of the green line. Does anyone have any ideas as to what kind of line this is and where I might be able to get more? Also, I have read quite a bit of posts in this group about equipment, but, not much on fly selection and presentation. What are some of the more successful flys and presentations for trout in small streams? Thanks in advance for your theories, suggestions and knowledge.

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Question:

Hello, here are some posts I have sent to others. Hope you find the useful!  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge….. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Some friends and I, serious fly fisherman all, are thinking about going to the Florida Keys to do some bonefishing (and maybe tarpon, permit, etc.)  this winter.  Never having done this before, I have scads of questions: * Is end of December/beginning of January a good time?

Bones are there year round. They will not come up onto the flats if the water temp is too cold. Also wind is more likely, and impacts the number of "fishable" (sight fishing) days. However, the largest bonefish are usually caught in winter. I have hooked (not landed) very big bonefish during XMAS trips last year. Tarpon migrate, and are not in the Keys in large quantities until May/June. There are year round Tarpon spots in the Keys ( and Miami) but it is usually deep water. (Bridges/channels, etc) I consider June/July the best time all around for fishing in the Keys. I still fish year all seasons, because even "off season" the fishing is better than most places I know. But for fly fisherman, winter may be less desirable. Redfish are available year round, as are sharks and barracudas. Many fly types are sight fishing for big ‘Cudas during winter when it the flats are too cold for bonefish. * Where are the good spots in the keys?  Should we try Grand Bahama or  Belize instead?

My conclusion is that if you want numbers and lot’s of action, hit the bahamas, Christmas Island (near Hawaii), or costa rica. However, If you want big fish on a regular basis, Miami down to Marathon for bonefish is hard to beat. For Tarpon, Boca Grande pass in June is fantastic. Not the same as sight fishing the flats edges for tarpon in the Keys, but killer in a different fashion. Tarpon are all around florida mid year, so there are many good places for them. The keys are ideal due to: Big Bonefish, good tarpon, great Permit, OK redfish, great trout, great dolphin close in (the fish). The water is great for sight fishing in the Keys. Other parts of Fla are less "clear". The Bahamas are tough to beat in water clarity. * Know any good guides/outfitters?

I have not used a guide for 3 years, but recommend using one until you become proficient in finding fish yourself. Even then, guides will put you onto more fish. * Will I need my own equipment or can I rent?

I have not seen much rental equipment. If you have a guide, he will provide top notch equipment. I hope you have a good time!  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge…..  ..!gatech!kd4nc!km4ba!alan |       then what is the Anti-Dote??? Return-Path: jab Path: hpuerca!jab Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Distribution: na I will be on Islamorada from February 10-17 of this year.  I plan to do some inshore fishing, and am wondering if this is a particularly "hot" time for specific fish. Can anyone give me some help? I’ll be

Entirely dependant on water temperature. (Wind may also be an issue) Some of the largest bonefish are caught in "winter" (dec-feb). You may also go all day without seeing a fish on a flat. A guide is a big win here. They may know when/where fish may make an appearence. We have found that "normal" behavior does not apply. (normal for bonefish is: fish move on flat with low incoming tide.) Problem is that with colder water temp, at may be midday before the water warms up enough. Thus traditional early morning/late evening "best times" may not apply. Barracuda are found (and fished for) on the flats in the winter. Any other time, these guys are almost impossible to catch. (Except when a big bonefish is about to nail your shrimp/lure) Also sharks on the flats can be fun. Tarpon are pretty much somewhere else, except for a few "bridge" types that hang around year round. Redfish and trout in the backcountry (Fla Bay, as opposed to the Atlantic) should also be a good option. (Not as exciting as bonefish, but still pretty good) I believe offshore is pretty good this time of year. (Sailfish, grouper, Kings, snapper, etc) out for a full day, and would like to spend about half the day fishing purely for sport (i.e. tarpon, bonefish, maybe permit) and half the day fishing for something I can cook up afterwards. Is this possible?

Bonefish or permit then hit backcountry for redfish or trout. I have limited out on big trout within 30 min skiff ride from Islamorada. (By the way, you will be "in" Islamorada, the city. You will be "on" upper or lower matacumbe. Just a "nit" :- ) Any suggestions would be appreciated. I’d like to call up and reserve a guide ahead of time.

We had good luck with Jamie Brodie, who booked out of Holiday Isle. I could get other names from Fla Sportsman if needed. Secondly, since I can’t afford a guide every day I’m there, but would like to do some fishing most of the days I’m there, I’m wondering if anyone can give me advice about wading/shore fishing. I’ll cast for

This is how we got started. Harry Harris park up in key largo (20 min N of Islamorada) is a good flat to wade for bonefish. Also flats off the bridges at shell and indian key ( Just S of Islamorada. ) are good. If you see brown bottom that you can get too from your hotel, etc. I would give it a try. Wear tennis shoes, or booties. (I use "aquasox" as well) Be aware of stingrays. (Some say to shuffle. I do if I cannot see the bottom very clearly. I have found if the bottom is hard enough to wade, the stingrays do not bury themselves. They are also very spooky, and will avoid you.) Also bridge fishing all along that area is good. You can also rent a boat. (not cheap, but cheaper than a guide.) Plan on using it mainly to get too flats. Do not try to take it on the flats, as you will get stuck unless it is very high tide. You will not have a pole anyway. Even with our flat’s boats, we wade alot. (during low tide) anything, I just don’t know what’s there to cast to, or what to cast to whatever is there (to state a simple point in a fairly unruly way).

On the flats you will see:         stingrays- do not try to catch them. Look for bonefish/jack         following them. try to cast on the back of any stingray you see.         Many times you will not see the fish following them. Best sign         that bonefish are on the flats. Stingrays are your friend.         Bonefish- swim most in straight lines. best case is to find them         tailing in low water. (why wading is good). You may see one or a         dozen. Very spooky. Cast in front of them, let them swim up on         your lure/bait.         Permit- The most spooky. look for "sickle" fin sticking out of         water.         Baracuda- usually loitering around. Moving very slowly, then         disappears faster than your eye can follow. If you see a fish,         and it does not move 5-10 feet in a few seconds, then it is probably         a barracuda. cast past it 10 feet in front of it. reel as fast         as you can. They strike instinctively.         Jack- Usually you do not see them, but catch them by accident.         can get pretty big, fights almost as good as a bonefish. (Just         missing the 200 yd runs.)         Sharks- 2-5′ nurse, lemon, blacktip, and bonnet sharks. Lots of         fun to catch. Good sign of bonefish on the flats. They will         home in on a shrimp in the water. Plan on a short fight with a         quick release unless you use 2-3" of wire. (The wire does not         appear to bother bonefish. My brother has started rigging this         way all the time, just to sight cast for sharks if the bonefish         are not around)         Snapper- (mangrove and yellowtail) I call the yellowtail         "piranah" snappers, as they will make the water boil if you         throw a shrimp to them. Expert bait stealers, and will not         touch artificials. Usually too small to eat, but fun.         Basket ball sized puffs of mud- Bonefish!!! Usually more than         one. Look for the freshest, and then move 20-40′ ahead.         A line of muddy water- Stingray "mudding". Cast on it’s back.         A big cloud of muddy water- usually a school of bonefish and         jack. Often a stingray is down at the bottom. Cast into the         middle of it. Plan on 20-40′ casts. I use 8# test, 1 or 1/0 O’shaughsany cadmium or nickle hooks. Live shrimp or half dollar sized crabs. (The best) I carry extra shrimp in my pocket while wading. Also can use "skimmer" lead head jigs. Also consider fishing mangrove creeks and banks for snapper, snook (mostly at night), grunt, etc. You can catch "keepers". Grunt are not considered as desirable as snapper, but they are actually pretty good to eat. You will know if you catch a snook. Limited season. I have fun fishing hotel docks with my little boys even. In other words, any advice, as detailed as possible, about shore fishing on Islamorada would be greatly appreciated. I have one 6 1/2′ medium spinning outfit, and one 8′ medium-heavy spinning outfit (reel has 300 yard line capacity for 20′ test).

I would use the 6′6" for flats, and the bigger rod for bridge fishing. Again, 8# quality line is fine for the flats. Fill your reel. (optimum casting) Oil/grease your drag. It has got to be absolutley smooth. Set it for what you think it should be, then back it down to 1/3 of that. (We broke off several bonefish till we learned this.) They will take 100-200 yds of line extremely … read more »

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Hello,       I will be going Florida on April 1st, I would like to know about fishing in and around Ft. Lauderdale and the Keys. My primary interest is light tackle and fly fishing. Any tips on places to fish from shore for bonefish, permit, barracuda, tarpon, and/or any other large gamefish.           Suggestions will be greatly appreciated. This will be my first time down there, so I guess, I am a greenhorn. Tight lines……Fish On! Christopher Toner — –   2nd Shift Operations:RUCS               (908) 932-2293 –   OTS-Hill Center, Busch Campus –   Piscataway, NJ    

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Question:

Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ??

Modern graphite rods can cast considerably farther than bamboo, and the long false-casts made the casting scenes more dramatic, especially to non-flyfisher folks. They are much better and softer than these plastic rods.

Thats a strong statement.   Fish and fishing-waters come in all shapes, sizes, and characteristics.   There is hardly one best rod. You can serve the fly much softer…

Nice when needed, but what about techniques that require hard presentations? Also (an example), many steelhead rivers in the pacific northwest are large and fast – soft presentations are a don’t care, but long casts with potentially large flies are very useful. … and for some special technics I don’t know the name in english (when you have to feel the bite …

Nymphing?   Hard or soft, don’t care.   Sensitive, do care! … or you want to lead the fly against the flow) …

Many "swinging" techniques including wet fly swings, greased-line, lifts, etc.  It’s very debatable whether soft or hard is better. In Germany most of the good fly-fisher are fishing with bamboo-rods. What is it in USA ??

Many serious fly fisherman I know own bamboo (often lots of), but most only use them for "mood" or nostalgic moments, usually accompanied by a pipe or cigar, and possibly some whisky. I certainly enjoyed casting three different bamboo rods, and have my sights on buying some bamboo, but right or wrong, am spoiled and won’t give up my graphite. Thomas Gilg

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Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.   Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ??

The main reason seems to be that the original Montague 8 1/2" 4 1/2 oz bamboos are now very rare and *very* valuable.  In the movie they only used Montagues for close ups and for shots where they needed the slower action of the cane rod.  They did not want to break any rods when playing buckets full of rocks or even when fighting "Fernando", the model fish. Denbigh

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| They are much better and softer than these plastic rods. | | Thats a strong statement.   Fish and fishing-waters come in all shapes, | sizes, and characteristics.   There is hardly one best rod. | | You can serve the fly much softer… | | Nice when needed, but what about techniques that require hard presentations? | | Also (an example), many steelhead rivers in the pacific northwest are | large and fast – soft presentations are a don’t care, but long casts | with potentially large flies are very useful. Yes you are right. Here in Germany we dont’t have these large fast rivers and no steeelhaeds. We have small rivers with with good natural grayling and trout populations. So for this ‘fine’ fishing I think they are the best choice because of their soft and special action that you can’t reach with artificial rods. | | … and for some special technics I don’t know the name in english (when | you have to feel the bite … | | Nymphing?   Hard or soft, don’t care.   Sensitive, do care! Yes, it’s a kind of nymphing. | … or you want to lead the fly against the flow) … | | Many "swinging" techniques including wet fly swings, greased-line, | lifts, etc.  It’s very debatable whether soft or hard is better. For wet fly it’s O.K.. But I mean for dry fly you need a in your words ’sensitive’ (excuse my english) rod and a good technik to imitate a fly running up the stream. Otherwise your fly is diving like a submarine. | | In Germany most of the good fly-fisher are fishing with bamboo-rods. | What is it in USA ?? | | Many serious fly fisherman I know own bamboo (often lots of), but most | only use them for "mood" or nostalgic moments, usually accompanied by | a pipe or cigar, and possibly some whisky. | | I certainly enjoyed casting three different bamboo rods, and have my | sights on buying some bamboo, but right or wrong, am spoiled and won’t | give up my graphite. | | Thomas Gilg Sure it has something nostalgic, maybe I am nostalgic too. I think you will agree with me when I say flyfishing is more than a hi-tec sport and not only the facts make you (and me) to buy a bamboo rod. And as longer I fish it’s more the fish in the water which fascinates me than the fish in my bag. It’s like the last sentence in Sherley Mc Lanes roman. In German it’s "Ich werde von Wassern verfolgt.". In english it has to be something like this: "I am followed by waters."       Olaf <Olaf Lindner                      | Technical University of Berlin    

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etc. It’s like the last sentence in Sherley Mc Lanes roman. In German it’s "Ich werde von Wassern verfolgt.". In english it has to be something like this: "I am followed by waters."       Olaf

My soul cringes at the thought of Shirley McLane (sp?) writing about fly fishing.  A River Runs Through It was written by *Norman* Maclean. Shirley M. is a weird US actress with strong views on her previous lives; Norman M. was very different. Incidentally, in the original he wrote "haunted" not "followed." Denbigh

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Olaf Lindner writes: A friend of mine has 15 bamboo-rods, all made by Bjarne Fries probably the best bamboo-rod builder in the world each about 1200$.

Olaf if your friend had graphite instead of bamboo he could probable cover the same range of fishing situations with 6 to 8 rods at rather than 15.  Graphite has greater latitude.  He’d also have $12,000 to go to New Zealand.  I know where I’ll spend my money.

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| | Olaf if your friend had graphite instead of bamboo he could probable cover | the same range of fishing situations with 6 to 8 rods at rather than 15.   That’s true but the point is not the range of fishing situations than the specia l action of a well built split cane rod. I see that this is a very dificult theme and at the end a personal decision. | Graphite has greater latitude.  He’d also have $12,000 to go to New Zealand.  I know | where I’ll spend my money. Hope you have fun. Olaf (Excuse me about the mistake with the names ‘Sherley’ and ‘Norman’. I don’t know  who it (Sherley) is (I only heard the name sometimes in the TV) but it sounds t errible.) — <Olaf Lindner                      | Technical University of Berlin    

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Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ??

Thomas J. Gilg’s response to Olaf Lindner is right on the mark.  The only thing I can add is that bamboo rod’s are wonderful for small eastern spring creeks with lot’s of brush overhead.  Maybe Olaf is faced with kind of situation.   One other thought is that not every bamboo rod is good.  I’ve cast lots of junk.  Good rods seem to start at around $1000 (new or old).  The collection craze has recently driven the price of bamboo rods out of sight good and bad.  I’ve seen people at shows pay +$400 for a machine made japanese piece of junk.  I just can’t justify paying +$1000 for a rod that for all it’s beauty will be out performed by a rod of 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

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Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.  

Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ?? They are much better and softer than these plastic rods. I got my first Spilt Cane rod on a Fly-Fishing congress in Germany these Spring for 800,- DM (about 500$). A friend of mine has 15 bamboo-rods, all made by Bjarne Fries probably the best bamboo-rod builder in the world each about 1200$. O.K. I agree with you when you say that’s crazy but Most people who have fished with one of these rods they will never again take these plastics. You can serve the fly much softer and for some special technics I don’t know the name in english (when you have to feel the bite or you want to lead the fly against the flow) they are probably the best choice because they are so soft and have and have a very special action. In Germany most of the good fly-fisher are fishing with bamboo-rods. What is it in USA ?? Olaf — <Olaf Lindner                      | Technical University of Berlin    

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