Question:

<snip Nice read, Sam. — TL, Tim

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Howdy Sam     As a sometime resident of Pa. i have a camper in Coburn close to Penns Creek wife is from Scranton where would this lovely little stream be i would like to check it out. Email me if you want.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

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I finished up my summer vacation at my boyhood home in eastern Pennsylvania late in the evening of July 3. I planned to rise before dawn on Independence Day and fish my favorite little creek. [HISTORIC ASIDE] I fished this creek as a boy some twenty five years earlier. Then, it was at best, marginal water.  Smelly, appearing nearly devoid of anything alive, and in places, algae nearly choked the stream due to phosphate pollution from industry far upstream. But it had trout, and I could walk there. Twenty five years ago that’s all I needed. In the intervening years, I went off to college, moved several times, got married, and had several jobs. I visited the creek whenever I got back home. Never to fish, just to try to recapture some of those boyhood memories I guess.  Over the past 6 or 7 years, I noticed that the smell had gone and so did the algae. Not surprising, since the upstream industry, and all the related jobs, disappeared. That is why most of my contemporaries and I left the area in the first place. Over the past 3 years, I was able to follow stocking reports, Pennsylvania state water reports and even fishing reports via the internet.  The stream was definitely on the mend. In fact, recently it was supposed to be removed from the list stocked streams due to a "Class B or better designation, and sizable wild trout population" according to the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PAFBC). The decision to not stock was later reversed because of a public outcry. Knowing some of the history of this stream, and knowing some of the troubles of the PAFBC, I was skeptical to say the least. [END OF HISTORICAL ASIDE] Before dawn came and went (as it sometimes does) and I was still in bed. However, I was on the creek by 6:00am. It was already hot, opressively hot. I was to pay dearly for that extra hour of sleep. Should have gotten up at 4:30 like the alarm clock said. It was the tail end of week long 90+ degree streak. The water had a good flow but promised little relief from the heat. As I entered the water, I was pleasantly surprised by the cool press of my breathables against my bare legs.  Stream thermometer read 66 degrees, not too shabby! I waded upstream about 100 yards or so, and stood in an ankle deep riffle. I gazed upstream at a 50 yard stretch of knee deep flat water, with another riffle at the head. There were about a dozen fish rising in front of me.  I could not tell what they were feeding on, but I did notice that most of the bugs I saw were gray. So I tied on a #16 gray EHC. There were at least two fish between the biggest riseform and myself, and it was under a low hanging branch.  Not going to get that one. I decided to cast to the closest one, which I spooked after a few casts.  I crept forward to cast to the next one that was still feeding.  On the second cast, there was a kamakazee rise to my fly.  As I set the hook, I thought "little fish, big ones don’t crash that hard…probably not a trout anyway". I had it, or wait, did it have me? It was not quite the little fish I imagined. After a savage but brief fight, I brought a beautifully colored, fully finned, and yes, wild 15 inch brown trout to hand. After a quick and admiring look, I released it, and it darted upstream.  I was so happy I laughed out loud. I waited for about 15 minutes for the fish to start rising again, but they never did.  It was 7:45am, and the heat was intensifiying.  I briefly though of moving on upstream, but then thought I should just go home. Landing more fish on that day would make me no happier.

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Question:

I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis (obviously not working on it right now) and I took a few minutes to watch the steelhead at Grindstone Creek.  This stretch of water is a fish sanctuary and it provides a superb view for migrating steelies.

Being able to find an area like this where you can easilly observe the fish’s behavior is very interesting and valuable, at least to me. Like you reported, it teaches you things about the fish that you wouldn’t have discovered. Willi

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I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis

heard that one before, fishing or thesis? fishing or… thesis? fishing … or … fishing?  fishing?  Fishing! BTW, the local fly shop recently decided to sell off all their fishng videos for $3 a piece so I picked up the SciAng Jim Teeny Steelhead video. There is one pool shown in that video where 20 fish are milling about all pointed in various directions.  The surface is flat and Teeny is pitching a nymph at the end of a 5ft sink tip with a long leader. Mu

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I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis heard that one before, fishing or thesis? fishing or… thesis? fishing … or … fishing?  fishing?  Fishing! BTW, the local fly shop recently decided to sell off all their fishng videos for $3 a piece so I picked up the SciAng Jim Teeny Steelhead video. There is one pool shown in that video where 20 fish are milling about all pointed in various directions……

Weird, wasn’t it?  When I saw it, I wondered just how many rocks he’d tossed in at that point. JR

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis heard that one before, fishing or thesis? fishing or… thesis? fishing … or … fishing?  fishing?  Fishing! BTW, the local fly shop recently decided to sell off all their fishng videos for $3 a piece so I picked up the SciAng Jim Teeny Steelhead video. There is one pool shown in that video where 20 fish are milling about all pointed in various directions…… Weird, wasn’t it?  When I saw it, I wondered just how many rocks he’d tossed in at that point.

I have that video. The rock tossing works, BTW. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I have that video. The rock tossing works, BTW.

You fish molester. But seriously, I think if I tried that rock trick on any of the streams that I used to fish in michigan, the fish would have headed about 100 yards downstream. Mu

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I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis (obviously not working on it right now)

  Me either What’s your field? interesting obs. snipped.

Thats the beauty of putting up the stick for awhile, and having an optic.  As a more general comment on trouty lies, some of the angles fish lie at in front of,  behind and under structure are quite surprising.   In some of the little streams we find fish sitting at right angles to the current fairly regularly, we even have some pet rocks that seem to attract this sort of behaviour. There is a horse, that sits in behind a log in tailout.  The log is probably 45 degrees to the current and immediatley below is a 2-3 foot waterfall. The bank is a mere 3 feet away and a good deal of the current is forced between the log and the bank.  Depending on the the flow, the fish will be found more or less hard up to the log – but never straight up and down stream.   With the angle he lies at and the height above downstream water he can see any movement on the banks both up and down stream, has a bit of a funnel feeding him food and a relatively good oxygen supply. The force is strong with that one … Steve

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I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis (obviously not working on it right now)  Me either What’s your field?

MA, Cultural Anthropology – specialty – development NGOs interesting obs. snipped. Thats the beauty of putting up the stick for awhile, and having an optic.  

I should do more of this – I just get to the water too horny to spend the time. There is a horse, that sits in behind a log in tailout.  The log is probably 45 degrees to the current and immediatley below is a 2-3 foot waterfall. The bank is a mere 3 feet away and a good deal of the current is forced between the log and the bank.  Depending on the the flow, the fish will be found more or less hard up to the log – but never straight up and down stream.  

That’s why she’s a horse, eh?  My son fished to one like that in PA. the fish had put herself in an almost perfect spot.  He got in a lucky cast, the fish took and then broke him off in a twinkle. With the angle he lies at and the height above downstream water he can see any movement on the banks both up and down stream, has a bit of a funnel feeding him food and a relatively good oxygen supply. The force is strong with that one … Steve

Those are the ones that keep us coming back. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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MA, Cultural Anthropology – specialty – development NGOs

Cripes – a mouthful, that will look impressive on your business cards. NGO – Non-Government Org? Hope the writeup goes as well as it can … I’m almost there with mine, another month or 6 (shudder). I should do more of this – I just get to the water too horny to spend the time.

  Had that happen the other day, left home 2.5 hours late – primary destination was a mess – warm water algae low flows – poor fish. Arrived at secondary at least 3 hours later than usual – fished the first hour like a complete maniac i.e. badly … trouble with trees, leader stopper failing, companion was (seemingly) in my pocket – bad.  After about the 10th spooked fish I realised what the hell was going on slowed down, and started to enjoy myself … it began with a little stalking of fish for my companion.  We still did that usually 6 hour fish/walk, in three and a half hours – time enoguh left for some new water to be explored but that first section was ‘orrible. That’s why she’s a horse, eh?  My son fished to one like that in PA. the fish had put herself in an almost perfect spot.  He got in a lucky cast, the fish took and then broke him off in a twinkle.

  My nymph came unhitched from the horse almost immediately … Those are the ones that keep us coming back.

Oh yeah. Though now summer has set in fully I expect the lie will change as the water is getting uncomfortably warm. Steve (back to my Contusion)

Response:

Steve (back to my Contusion)

you neglected to add, "Which one." – now that I’ve admitted to my feeble attempt to added to academic trivia – it’s your turn. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Steve (back to my Contusion) you neglected to add, "Which one." – now that I’ve admitted to my feeble attempt to added to academic trivia – it’s your turn.

  If your academic research is half as good as your fishing research appears to be you’ll knock the socks off …anyway its the journey … the journey …that matters …  8^) Heading for PhD in Computer Science (or a complete NBD) – topic last I looked was Synthetic Images in particular mucking about with morphing. I know one thing … I took up flyfishing a year or two before starting the undergrad thing … it has definately kept me more or less sane over the intervening 9 years.  Fishing, thinking about it, recollections, and even the scribblings here from the more sentient beings that inhabit roff all help. Though I look forward to finishing, my mid-week forays into the forests of "Nophishe Valley" and "Watchemecrawlalong ck" will be severely curtailed by a return to full-time work … back to the evening rise and weekend fishing (which I haven’t done for probably 3-4 years!)  On the other hand I will have more shekels for trips and gear Steve

Response:

Weird, wasn’t it?  When I saw it, I wondered just how many rocks he’d tossed in at that point. I have that video. The rock tossing works, BTW.

Yes it does.  Teeny gets a lot of flack from a lot of folks, but he’s a hell of a steelhead fisherman.  I rarely sight fish to steelhead in the rivers around here, but if I were unable to move a fish I could see and cast well to, I’d probably toss a rock or two myself. JR

Response:

I’ve taken some time off to work finish my thesis (obviously not working on it right now) and I took a few minutes to watch the steelhead at Grindstone Creek.  This stretch of water is a fish sanctuary and it provides a superb view for migrating steelies. There is a small plunge pool downstream from a small rock face/chute of about 3′ high.  The water rushes through the chute into the pool, creating a white water plume about 20′ long and 5′ wide.  Unlike most days, the water was gin clear and afford an unobstructed view of the fish. Surprise No.1 – the holding fish were lying approximately 90 to 120 degrees off the current, under the plume.  Obviously, the plume creates eddies along the bottom and these fish had their heads pointed into the eddy current direction.  Most of the fish were angled slightly downstream.  One pair were snuggled up to the base of the rock wall, holding side-by-side, perpendicular to the rushing plume above their heads. Surprise No. 2 – well not really a surprise, just a confirmation – many of the fish were madly dashing about chasing each other at high speed.  Obviously not the slow metabolism, frozen fish syndrome we keep hearing about.  A fast presentation would have probably been effective on these fish. One other observation, some of the fish held just outside of the plume but none would venture very far from its cover.  Now this could be attributed to my presence but as I approached, I could see the fish clearly and the closest didn’t spook until I got very close.  I stood very still and within a minute or two, the fish ignored me and went back to their previous positions.  None of the fish were holding more than 3′ from the plume and even when they dash about, they rarely left its cover. These observations will certainly influence my next steelhead trip as I don’t think I’ll look at this type of water the same way again.  I had always been told that steelhead won’t hold in back eddies but these fish put the lie to that theory.  From now one, I’ll try to visualize the fish pointing in different directions depending on the current and not just the head-upstream we always assume. One effective nymphing presentation, anywhere eddies rotate from the rear of the plume to the front, would be to cast a nymph into the tailout and allow the nymph to be brought into the head of the plume by the eddie, plunge down the plume, then repeat.  I’ve caught carp here using this method when the regs permitted but never thought to use it for steelhead – that thing about steelies not holding pointing downstream.  Next time . . . No reason this wouldn’t be true for residents either. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

<SNIP  and my Red Chili dove enchiladas are muy bueno (quail and pheasant have been substituted at times).

<SNIP Sounds delicious!   Care to share the recipe? — George Reinier

Response:

NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member NSS life member

Life Life Member — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

Greetings: Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

Please see suggestions/possible ideas below. A pan can be a summer luxury, but it is far from a necessity. A mentor made an oven (he was in the Corps of Engineers), and he would bring in Goldens and make brownies or gingerbread (I preferred the brownies), and I would spend the day off climbing, and life was grand.  An oven is even more of a luxury. There used to be commercial ovens, but several factors have reduced seeing them. Improvising is a key.

  Yup, and the hungrier one is, the more one improvises – at least in our camps! I prefer to fry my trout in some oil or butter, lightly coated in corn meal.  (Important note:  If preparing fish this way after dark, _do not_ confuse corn meal bag with  powdered orange juice mix bag!)  :-(  There are many other options – just some examples: One can make a one-time fry pan out of aluminum foil. Wrap trout in aluminum foil and roast on hot coals. Roast them on a stick.   Trout au bleu [blue trout] Someone help me with my French, _please_.

 For this, you must be in a place where trout can be caught immediately: Prepare rest of meal, i.e., make rice and/or suitable other items in advance.  Bring water in pan to boil, and squeeze a little lemon juice in the water.  (You can carry a lemon a long time on most backpacking trips.)  Have someone catch trout and toss to another fellow camper, if possible.  Clean trout, preferably with one stroke, and plunge trout into boiling water.  Boil for about 30 seconds, or until flesh flakes off easily.  If you do this right, the trout flesh will turn light blue, hence the name.  Very light and flaky with most oils boiled away.  Even if the trout flesh doesn’t turn light blue, it will taste good anyway.  On a side note, I heard that fishermen in the northern states, (and perhaps Canada?), sometimes boil large lake trout in 50 gallon drums for fish-feeds.  Is that true?  If so, I would like to try that sometime. "Slurp" indeed!  :-) Cheers, and happy trials,  -Mark NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member

Heck, I’d rather write ‘em a check every year, just in case I change my mind!  :-)

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

A pan can be a summer luxury, but it is far from a necessity. A mentor made an oven (he was in the Corps of Engineers), and he would bring in Goldens and make brownies or gingerbread (I preferred the brownies), and I would spend the day off climbing, and life was grand.  An oven is even more of a luxury. There used to be commercial ovens, but several factors have reduced seeing them. Improvising is a key. NRA Life Member

Sierra Club Life Member

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NRA Life Member Sierra Club Life Member

NSS life member              We’ll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head

Response:

Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

Aluminum foil cannot be overrated.  Trout can be cooked in foil, and a small amount of spice, green pepper, onion, bottled salad dressing, or whatever can be added.  Not a lot to carry, and makes some very tasty fish.   PS.  Do not forget the matches. Steve Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

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OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks

For car-camping I bring all the cooking luxuries.  Foil, some lemon and butter work most of the time with a wood fire.  It’s a little difficult to cook up a good sized trout with a Whisperlite though (frying up something you have filleted is easier).  You have to move around your under-sized light-weight backpacking frying pan and flip the fish a few times (I prefer my fish under-cooked, vs. over-cooked).  I do have a moderate weight grate I bring backpacking sometimes. NRA Life Member

Not again. — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

Response:

I would hike in about 2 1/2 hour hike then fish about 3-4 hours up river I have a good size day pack I use for my waders and boots I would not be close to a car when I cooked the trout. Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this? NRA Life Member

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: OK to those who do this lets say you : like to make a small fire and cook a few : for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, : small grill top or what? What have you : tried.Thanks : NRA Life Member A friend brought along a small butane stove, teflon fry pan, a little oil and a little breading and some tortillas. We had fresh fish tacos alongside the stream on a fine bushwhacking daytrip. The tortillas made a great way to handle the cooked fish. I find that carrying the fish-cooking pan and supplies isn’t worth the weight since I’m already carrying a *reliable* cook-anywhere dinner when backpacking. Fishing is just entertainment for me. Last backpacking trip I was glad I’d left the fishing gear home. It was a very aggressive, off-trail, no-one-we-could-contact-has-ever-been-there kind of trip. My buddy brought his fly rod. Unfortutately  all the high lakes along the way were fish-free and the single stream caught fish wasn’t enough fun to justify bringing the flyrod. I’m glad I wasn’t carrying mine. See http://estes.on-line.com/rmnp/reports/paradise.html   for the story. Ron

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Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this?

I actually carry live trout with me, in addition to the fry pan and grill top. I keep the trout right next to my sled-mounted .308. -Paul John Paul Minda Dept of Psychology University at Buffalo http://wings.buffalo.edu/~minda

Response:

for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what?

Easy.  Pot lids.  Works fine.  No extra weight. They don’t hold the 5.5 lbs ones in one piece, but you learn to make do.

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Paul, I don’t think that is balanced correctly.  I think if you put a .223 with a high capacity magazine opposite and put the trout in the middle, it will balance much better. I have heard, from a reliable source, that this is the way to do it. Chris It is amazing the things you learn here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wondering about other people that did this if they carried a fry pan,grill top, or do they make something special for this? I actually carry live trout with me, in addition to the fry pan and grill top. I keep the trout right next to my sled-mounted .308. -Paul John Paul Minda Dept of Psychology University at Buffalo http://wings.buffalo.edu/~minda

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks

You will probably troll better in rec.outdoors.fishing or one of the other fishing groups, either in that group or as a cross-post. But cross-post carefully. I just eat fish.  Like Muir, I find the act of fishing boring. Slurp.

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How many of you backpackers trout fish? Yes  (Of course ALL of us are backpackers and we do nothing else)

I HOPE you either eat them, release them or feed the bears with them. NRA Life Member No

Yes. — Ski Abineau!

Where’s that? Do they have sled trails too?

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OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks NRA Life Member

Response:

OK to those who do this lets say you like to make a small fire and cook a few for lunch what would I carry a fry pan, small grill top or what? What have you tried.Thanks

There are a myriad of ways to cook fresh trout, and all of them are wonderful.  For details, I highly recommend Rick Greenspan’s "Backpacking: A Hedonist’s Guide." Sadly, it’s out of print, but your local library might have it. Gerald

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I HOPE you either eat them, release them or feed the bears with them.

‘Guess I’m missing your point…what else would you do with them? Generally, I prefer to eat them vs. catch-n-release.  It depends upon where you’re fishing, with whom your fishing with and how many other fish you’ve caught, limits, Blue Ribbon Fishing Waters, etc. NRA Life Member No Yes.

Not all gun owners/hunters are NRA members.  We lived off of elk chili in college and my Red Chili dove enchiladas are muy bueno (quail and pheasant have been substituted at times). — Ski Abineau! Where’s that? Do they have sled trails too?

Sorry, the "chutes" are located well within the Kachina Peaks Wilderness, but there is the "Waterline Road" which is gerrymandered into the Wilderness area (so the City can drive up the road and check on their water pipes).  A nice mtn. bike ride on the road.  When there’s snow, the Flagstaff area is quite popular with the ‘bilers, (N. Rim of GC too). — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

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Is there any other reason to backpack than to get to out of the way trout water?

Climbing. Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

I like it.

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How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks

Done mean fish for trout or catch trout? I’m pretty good at the first and just OK at the second. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

: How many of you backpackers trout : fish? If I get some responses to this : I have more questions.Thanks Sure. Makes a great way to pass the time when you’re too tired to walk anymore. : NRA Life Member Ron NRA Life too

Response:

I canoe camp, not backpack.  Yes, I flail for trout (recently took it up, it’s not a pretty sight.  But the trout don’t mind.  They just swim in the same spot in the stream and ignore me.). If I were in a survival situation, the last thing I’d be doing is fishing with a line.  Nets.  Nets and weirs.  Just thought I’d drop that in to possibly start a new line dipped and see if I can catch anything bigger and more easily… How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks NRA Life Member

—– rbc: vixen  (somewhat harmless) 0-0:  The artist formerly known as something else. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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I do I do!!!!!!!

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Is there any other reason to backpack than to get to out of the way trout water? Fishing is a very nice compliment to backpacking, not to mention you have an extra food source. Fishing is my second most favorite activity. Steve NRA and CCW Devotee Spelling, grammar, and content errors intentionally included for those whose only purpose in life is to correct others.  ;-)

Response:

How many of you backpackers trout fish?

Yes  (Of course ALL of us are backpackers and we do nothing else) NRA Life Member

No — Ski Abineau! kknisely at parkcity dot com

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How many of you backpackers trout fish? If I get some responses to this I have more questions.Thanks NRA Life Member

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Question:

testing this news server and outlook express, we’ll see Thanks for those who offered assistance Wayne ——

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My server shows it at 5:21pm 2/1/2k.  Get out the wrench, it worked. R Here’s your header and post as I see it:

Thanks, still gonna take some getting use to, the message download is taking forever, but since in this getup I’m not paying for the isp or the server, in theory I can save enough money to pay for a new Abel SW reel (10 wt) ——

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My server shows it at 5:21pm 2/1/2k.  Get out the wrench, it worked. R Here’s your header and post as I see it: Path: news.flash.net!nntp.flash.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!ne ws.netfront.net!freenews.netfront.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly read Organization: Netfront http://www.netfront.net/ Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: ip141.nashville17.tn.pub-ip.psi.net GMT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: news.flash.net rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:158136 testing this news server and outlook express, we’ll see Thanks for those who offered assistance Wayne ——

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Thanks, still gonna take some getting use to, the message download is taking forever, but since in this getup I’m not paying for the isp or the server, in theory I can save enough money to pay for a new Abel SW reel (10 wt)

LMAO! You’re a friggin’ GENIUS, Wayne! ;^)

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LMAO! You’re a friggin’ GENIUS, Wayne! ;^)

method to my madness trip…. Alas the server been down for 24 hrs now, back on the training wheels. <g Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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Question:

George, For the 3 wt. we need a medium action.  I like a fast action rod because of my casting style but for small streams and casting tippet most of the time, the slower action is more accurate and has more finesse.  Since we are talking mostly Brook trout and small stream fishing I have been working on a name.  No blockbuster yet comes to mind.  So far its Little Bastard, Small Stream Bastard, Mr. Rapidan Bastard (Monteague had a Rapidan many years ago), or that Bastard Brookie.  Still needs work. Wayne to fish is human….to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – parties, such as finding some really GREAT Tonkin Cane.  Since I don’t take things for granted Wayne, I would rather admit up front that I may be blind sided, but I assure you, once I have the Cane and the forms I can get yours out just so I can keep my word, if need be.  (I have the tapers)  Do you want a medium or fast fly rod for a three weight? I’m trying to think of a Model name for the 6.5′ .  See the Bastard Page on the web.  I need help in this area. George Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Folks, the more i read, the less i know.. having been away for several week,s I note that resident most hated/most loved roff guy g g is working on "the bastard"!?!? could someone please clue me in… clearly it is a fly rod and not some bizarre confession. Enquiring minds want to know! edwin —

Question:

What is the proper size flies to use with a 3x and a 4x tippet or leader ? What is the tippet/leader range for WF5F line ?

Our most popular tippet sizes are 3x through 6x. In leaders we sell lots of 7 1/2′, 4x and 5x and 9′, 4x, 5x and 6x.  This is what the fly fishers buy in Nor Cal. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

What is the proper size flies to use with a 3x and a 4x tippet or leader What is the tippet/leader range for WF5F line ?

Standard rules: — divide hook size by 4 to get tippet thickness in Xs:  thus    #12 fits 3x, #16 fits 4x etc.  Most people nowadays fish    one grade finer. — Leader butt should be 2/3 thickness of line end, and not    too much stiffer. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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What is the proper size flies to use with a 3x and a 4x tippet or leader ? What is the tippet/leader range for WF5F line ?

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What is the proper size flies to use with a 3x and a 4x tippet or leader ? What is the tippet/leader range for WF5F line ?

class, boy. — George Gehrke All Writings

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                A Reminder of How Treacherous in Wading Can Be <snip Maybe this story of my carelessness and close call will make others more aware of the ever present possibiliy of a lethal surprise. And particularly aware of the prison of waterfilled waders. You can’t jump. or do much of anythimg.

Glad you survived to tell the story.  As for me, been there, done that!  Not in neoprene waders either – old heavy rubber ones with no belt.  And it was dark to boot.  Ah the thoughts you have. -Burton — 2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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                A Reminder of How Treacherous in Wading Can Be <snip Maybe this story of my carelessness and close call will make others more aware of the ever present possibiliy of a lethal surprise. And particularly aware of the prison of waterfilled waders. You can’t jump. or do much of anythimg.

Glad you survived to tell the story.  As for me, been there, done that!  Not in neoprene waders either – old heavy rubber ones with no belt.  And it was dark to boot.  Ah the thought you have. -Burton — 2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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                A Reminder of How Treacherous in Wading Can Be I was wading  alone in knee deep water in upper  Lake Taneycomo (the White River), Missouri last Saturday fly fishing for Rainbow.. The third one I caught seemed to large to get in without a net, so I was nursing it to shore. When I got within about ten feet of the shoreline I quit looking down, and that’s the last thing I remember real clearly. I was immdeiately gulpimg water, ,couldnt see, and couldn’t get my head above water by thrashing and dog paddling. I  must have thrashed for a minute or so, because I got to where I thought I’,ve got to give up because I can’t hold my breath any longer. Then I realized if I took a breath it would be my last. I had no idea of my location or orientation by the, so  I quit movng, descended to the bottom and kicked/crawled in whatevr direction I was pointed. The ground seemed to be rising in front of me, so I gave another  lunge or two, stood up and gasped for air.all at once. I got more air than wter, and after a bounce or two had mu head above water.          I got a few more feet and cokllapsed in shallow water, breathing very rapidly and shallow. I still wasn’t sure I was out of trouble, but in 15- 10 minutes my breathing was about normal. I had to walk 1/4 mile to get my gear ang go home (still no one around.) I couldn’t walk on the shore because my boots were nearly full of watr, and I couldn’w walk without them. So I waded back, collapsed again down there for 1/2 hour, then slowly got up the hill and home. While wading back I found my fly rod floating, with the trout still attached         When I got hom my blood pressure  was 180/120. But 24 hours later my only ailments were a bitten tongue, some coughimg and general soreness.         I had on chest waders and a belt, but no flotation equipment. I’m not a swimmer, but have always been able to stay afloat in a pool. I think the wader probably made the difference betwen getting out and not, because my waders only half filled with water.belt.         I recovered quickly, got a fishing vest/life jacket and went back the next day to checkout the hole I stepped in. It is in Lake Taneycomo, about three hundred  yards east of the 21 mile marker (for any local fisherman), and on the downstream side of a very large tree stump. It apperas to be about eight feet deep at the very lowest lake level (701ft) , and roughly 8X8 square, with pretty abropt entry stepoff. Maybe this story of my carelessness and close call will make others more aware of the ever present possibiliy of a lethal surprise. And particularly aware of the prison of waterfilled waders. You can’t jump. or do much of anythimg.

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Question:

Hi, I will be going on a 6 day canoe trip into the Quetico Wilderness area in Canada in mid-July of this year.  Does anyone out there know what to expect?  I would be interested in any info about patterns, techniques for deep fish like walleye, or anything you think might help.  I will be doing the Cache Lake Loop out of Baptism Creek.  Should be loads of fun. Thanks. Chris

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Hi, I will be going on a 6 day canoe trip into the Quetico Wilderness area in Canada in mid-July of this year.  Does anyone out there know what to expect?  I would be interested in any info about patterns, techniques for deep fish like walleye, or anything you think might help.  I will be doing the Cache Lake Loop out of Baptism Creek.  Should be loads of fun.

        Boy, I THINK it was in this newsgroup, but it was possibly in the GPS NG (sci.geo.satellite-nav) or the rec.backcountry newsgroup where I just responded to a very similar question about the Boundary Waters in August. Thus you might want to go to Dejanews and do a search there for same for my (tiny) pearls of wisdom. (And, beyond that, in the rec.backcountry newsgroup if not this flyfishing one if you go back even a little way you’ll find tons of stuff addressing your question. I tried to summarize in the post I referred to above, and damned if I can remember what NG it was in. I seem to recall trying to talk quite a bit about flyfishing so I suspect it was in this NG, but I can’t be sure.)         Basically though, my point was that you should start thinking about smallmouth early in the morning and evenings off rocky shelves in the shallows, and pike in the weeds. There’s lots of ways to check to see if the lakes you are going to are primarily smallmouth or walleye, though the bigger lakes will have both. As to walleye, I don’t know about you but trying to flyfish any further than about 3-4 feet down just ain’t my idea of fun. To each his own though….         Good luck. Tom Burczyk

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I use deerhair poppers for smallmouth morning and evening. White gartside streamer weighed during day,also black woolyburger with a little red tinsel down the back. Try lead eyed woolyburgers with about 4 bass type hackles tied on as a tail fish it with long leader that has silicone on it you can detect the soft takes of walleye. have fun .. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I will be going on a 6 day canoe trip into the Quetico Wilderness area in Canada in mid-July of this year.  Does anyone out there know what to expect?  I would be interested in any info about patterns, techniques for deep fish like walleye, or anything you think might help.  I will be doing the Cache Lake Loop out of Baptism Creek.  Should be loads of fun. Thanks. Chris

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<<<<<I will be going on a 6 day canoe trip into the Quetico Wilderness area in Canada in mid-July of this year.  Does anyone out there know what to expect?  I would be interested in any info about patterns, techniques for deep fish like walleye, or anything you think might help.  I will be doing the Cache Lake Loop out of Baptism Creek.  Should be loads of fun. Thanks. Chris Hi.  I’ll be there, too, and if I see you I’ll wave. I usually have excellent luck catching bass and northerns in that area with a huge orange shrimp pattern that is actually a steelhead fly. Leeches or deer hair mice twitched through the reed beds are dynamite for large northerns, but don’t try that on a 5 weight. On the Seine River near there, I’ve caught blue gills and gigantic lake whitefish on caddis and Adams towards evening. I always see lots of dragonfly nymph shucks around and inch-long brownish mayflies with white wings on the cabin screens each morning. Walleyes are usually down too deep, but you might pick the odd one up in the shallows. I usually paddle into back bays and cast tight to the bank, around brush, next to weeds. P.S. I’ll be doing a reading at the Atikokan Public Library on July 8, so drop in if you’re in the neighbourhood.

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Ditto the last post–also– Keep your attention focused on points, especially ones near deep water. To catch walleyes or northerns in the summer heat you will have to fish like a spin guy.  I like a shooting head line with a "float tip" (if this gets famous then I get credit).  Take your nymph line and rig a loop-to-loop with about six feet of the head section of an old floating line.  Alternative:  fish a floating fly on a sinking line.  Go to leader (a flat butt of 40 and then 30/20 and maybe a 12 pound tippet; it’s a tossup:  catch more walleyes or get cut off by northerns.)  If you have a depth sounder you’re more likely to score.  Pick the windiest point you can find near big water, or near the flow where one lake has necked down into another.  Make your cast down wind and drift with your sinking line then strip back across the wind or with it.  Use clousers or strip leeches–color may matter, and it may vary from chartreuse to black.  A black strip leech with a fluorescent orange head is my favorite.  To move walleyes you will probably have to be at least 12′ deep, and maybe as deep as 18′.  A rocky or gravelly flat that extends in deep water will almost always hold fish.  Move shallower on the same structure for smallies; move out over deep water but near the dropoff for big northerns. In the evening, stake out a likely flat near camp.  Get about a gallon of pure DEET.  As the light falls, make casts across the flat parallel to the deep water or across the wind and scrape the bottom in the same fashion. In the early morning (early:  first light) do the same.  In low-light conditions (or rain or fog) you may find walleyes in 6 to 10 feet of water; you will collide with all three species in that zone.  Also–in bays, especially if it’s warm and especially if the water is clear, make some casts with large topwaters such as hair bugs, bob’s bangers or other poppers, and large dahlbergs.  This may bring on smallies and northerns. If you tie, make up a few really huge dahlberg divers (6 to 8" range) as these are the best bet for big northerns. I’ll be on Basswood lake this year–no time for a really deep penetration of the parks.  Good luck! Dave

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Question:

Any suggestions for a line for Pike.  I am tempted to go for a floating shooting head, but noticed SA Mastery have a purpose built Pike line – Has anyone used this? Thanks

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Any suggestions for a line for Pike.  I am tempted to go for a floating shooting head, but noticed SA Mastery have a purpose built Pike line – Has anyone used this? ThanksYes.  I’ve used it for Muskie (and Largemouths).  It does everything I

need from such a line.  I can even roll-cast, after a fashion. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy — Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON, Canada http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy

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Any suggestions for a line for Pike.  I am tempted to go for a floating shooting head, but noticed SA Mastery have a purpose built Pike line – Has anyone used this? Thanks

Simon, I had great success for pike using a shooting head system with intermediate thru xtra-fast sink heads. I bought a couple of floating shooting heads, but never used them because they’re incredibly thick and bulky on the reel when compared with the sinking heads. Also, since you’ll probably be fishing big streamers and stripping them most of the time, it really doesn’t matter if the head sinks. (Often it’s even more desirable to use xtra-fast sink to get the streamers down to submerged weed beds. As to the special-purpose pike lines, I havn’t tried them because I just can’t justify a line which was built for just one specific purpose like that. A good shooting-head system is infinitely more versatile. (Plus allows you to cast heavier flies further and with less effort than a full-length line.) Regards, Fred

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Any suggestions for a line for Pike.  I am tempted to go for a floating shooting head, but noticed SA Mastery have a purpose built Pike line – Has anyone used this? Thanks

Simon,    I don’t think shooting heads will give you any advantages.  In fact, I think they’ll cause more problems than fix.  A long cast is not needed, and the pike often hit it close to the boat leaving you with a bunch of line to clear.  Sight fishing is also a definite possibility with pike, so you need a line that can deliver the fly accurately.  Also, in the spring and fall they are in shallow water, so a sinking line is not needed (maybe for summer).  I use a cortland pike taper, and it works fine, but I’ve thrown the same flies (2/0 bunny flies and mega-divers) with an inexpensive cortland 444 WF 8wt and a bass bug taper lazer line.  They work well enough.  In my opinion, a shooting taper is not the correct line.  A pike or bass bug floating weight forward is what I’d reccomend. Rob Gregoire

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Question:

I’m a native of Florida and have been tying my own flies for some time now. I have an assortment of 3 that Snook/Redfish and Trout kill in the backcountry of Central and South Florida. If I get good response from this message I’ll post a photo in the and sell them my mail order. Let me know what you think. -Mark Ballard I have been flyfishing in Jenson Beach area of Florida without great results..I would be interested in information on your {hot flies and how to fish them.     Thanks, TomI plan on a "business trip" to central Florida the first part of May and

plan to fish in the Titusville area.  I would like to know more about your flies and other patterns that are successful in the area.

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Mark: I am headed to S.W.Florida- would really like to have some trout and redfish flies and also the best type of places to fish them. Thanks-Alex

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I would like to hear about those flies also. Jerry Virzi

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For all these fish there are several types of flies that are very successful: 1)  Clouser Minnows 2)  Lefty’s Deceivers 3)  Crazy Charlies and other shrimp/crab immitations. These all work well on the Texas flats, assume they will work in Flordia or elsewhere.

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I’m a native of Florida and have been tying my own flies for some time now. I have an assortment of 3 that Snook/Redfish and Trout kill in the backcountry of Central and South Florida. If I get good response from this message I’ll post a photo in the and sell them my mail order. Let me know what you think. -Mark Ballard

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I’m a native of Florida and have been tying my own flies for some time now. I have an assortment of 3 that Snook/Redfish and Trout kill in the backcountry of Central and South Florida. If I get good response from this message I’ll post a photo in the and sell them my mail order. Let me know what you think. -Mark Ballard

I have been flyfishing in Jenson Beach area of Florida without great results..I would be interested in information on your {hot flies and how to fish them.     Thanks, Tom

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