Question:

A large mouth bass is not picky or scared much.  They are very aggressive. The more noise the angrier they get.  If it gets too hot, as it does down South, they will hide in the weeds during the heat of the day.

Actually, I think it is light rather than heat they tend to avoid.  They tend to "hide" in deeper water when not feeding and when it is available.  If all the water is 8-10 feet or less, then weeds and logs it will have to be.  Of course, if you pound the shallow weeds long enough, you’ll eventually catch some stragglers. If nothing is hitting it, you can be sure a bass is sizing it up.  He may not hit it the first time.  Present it to him again.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that.  It’s very easy to fish in the 90% of the water that has no fish.

Response:

A large mouth bass is not picky or scared much.  They are very aggressive. The more noise the angrier they get.  If it gets too hot, as it does down South, they will hide in the weeds during the heat of the day.  The really go for poppers, but I have also found they like slow sinking bugs.  I do not know the proper name for it, but my favorite is  a flat moss green wool bug with long rubber feelers and eyes.

There is a fly that’s similar to your description, that’s tied with something like hula skirts on backwards – called a pig boat. John

Response:

The family vacation this August is taking me to a huge warm lake with no trout for miles.  I have never fished for bass and figure this is a good time to try.  I need help with flies and tactics.  There is supposedly good fishing for smallmouth, largemouth and stripers (not to mention walleyes, crappies, etc.).  Maybe someone can refer me to a website for beginner bass flyfishermen? As always any advice will be much appreciated. tom

Response:

A large mouth bass is not picky or scared much.  They are very aggressive. The more noise the angrier they get.  If it gets too hot, as it does down South, they will hide in the weeds during the heat of the day.  The really go for poppers, but I have also found they like slow sinking bugs.  I do not know the proper name for it, but my favorite is  a flat moss green wool bug with long rubber feelers and eyes. The perch will give your lure a fit within the first 5 to ten second of the lure landing.  If nothing is hitting it, you can be sure a bass is sizing it up.  He may not hit it the first time.  Present it to him again. They strike at any given angle.  I recently caught a 5 pounder that simply slurpped the popper without breaking the water.  The same day a 2 pounder completely cleared the surface of the water and took the fly on the way back down (Shamu style  ). We use barbless on our lake.  But if you are hungry, you best leave your barb intact.  They love to shake ‘em out at the shore line. I have caught them on tiny black flies, as well as large frogs, and mice. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The family vacation this August is taking me to a huge warm lake with no trout for miles.  I have never fished for bass and figure this is a good time to try.  I need help with flies and tactics.  There is supposedly good fishing for smallmouth, largemouth and stripers (not to mention walleyes, crappies, etc.).  Maybe someone can refer me to a website for beginner bass flyfishermen? As always any advice will be much appreciated. tom

Response:

Question:

With a crossbow. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any one can cast a dead cat, it’s the live cat that takes real application!!!! Speaking of which, what is the best way to attach the hook and weight a cat? Warren "get a dog and kill a non-barn cat" Findley <g

Response:

With a crossbow.

So do you tie the tippet on around the bolt by the fletching, then pull the bolt through and then tie on the hook or what? Inquiring minds want to know dammit! <g — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

Yes tippet to the bolt and fired so the barbed bolt buries deep enough to ensure a solid connection. If a hook is reverse mounted and tied to the bolt it should be left protruding  enough to ensure hookups. Another tip… good floatant for cats is Mherke’s Manx. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With a crossbow. So do you tie the tippet on around the bolt by the fletching, then pull the bolt through and then tie on the hook or what? Inquiring minds want to know dammit! <g — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

(Salmo gairdneri) The steelhead

Steelhead and rainbows have been reclassified as Onchorynchus mykiss since they are related to pacific salmon and not atlantic salmon. Ocean prowling fish follow food to depths ranging in the hundreds of feet.  This is known to be true in all our deep land locked and Great Lakes.  Color becomes a primary concern to fly tiers and most everyone does not know that the color "Yellow" changes the deeper it goes under water.

Color can matter greatly.  Trolling on the Great Lakes at deptsh of 60 to 100 feet, one week the hot color might be Monkey Puke and the next week it’s a Kevorkian. Mu

Response:

Color can matter greatly.  Trolling on the Great Lakes at deptsh of 60 to 100 feet, one week the hot color might be Monkey Puke and the next week it’s a Kevorkian.

Hmm…I can’t find those colors on my Borger chart… /daytripper (Any shot for #27?)

Response:

Splork!  Trip, you get the bill for cleaning the spewed Dr. Pepper out of my keyboard.     — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Color can matter greatly.  Trolling on the Great Lakes at deptsh of 60 to 100 feet, one week the hot color might be Monkey Puke and the next week it’s a Kevorkian. Hmm…I can’t find those colors on my Borger chart… /daytripper (Any shot for #27?)

Response:

George: Thanks for the info about streamers. I think most of us have not spent as much time as we should learning to tie and fish streamers properly. WhenIi went to the FFF Show in Livingston last month one of the classes in tying that I took was one taught by Scott Sanchez. Among the flies he taught us to tie was the Double Bunny. For those who are not aware, this is the fly that won the One Fly Contest three times and they considered banning it from the contest simply because it worked so well. This fly uses a large hook, a bunch of .035 lead wire and two magnum sized rabbit strips glued together. If you tie it big enough, you need AT LEAST an 8 weight rod to cast it and a 10 weight rod is even better. Casting this streamer is no damn fun, since it feels like you are casting a dead cat, but it sure catches big fish. Our local striper lake is turning over now, so the striper fishing has gone away for a while below the damn, but I am getting a box full of Double Bunny flies ready for when this fishing returns. I may have to break out the big rod and a few of these streamers next month when I will be fishing the White River in Arkansas. I feel a need to work some of these streamers in some holes in that river. Big Dale

Response:

Any one can cast a dead cat, it’s the live cat that takes real application!!!!

Speaking of which, what is the best way to attach the hook and weight a cat? Warren "get a dog and kill a non-barn cat" Findley <g

Response:

Any one can cast a dead cat, it’s the live cat that takes real application!!!! Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George: Thanks for the info about streamers. I think most of us have not spent as much time as we should learning to tie and fish streamers properly. WhenIi went to the FFF Show in Livingston last month one of the classes in tying that I took was one taught by Scott Sanchez. Among the flies he taught us to tie was the Double Bunny. For those who are not aware, this is the fly that won the One Fly Contest three times and they considered banning it from the contest simply because it worked so well. This fly uses a large hook, a bunch of .035 lead wire and two magnum sized rabbit strips glued together. If you tie it big enough, you need AT LEAST an 8 weight rod to cast it and a 10 weight rod is even better. Casting this streamer is no damn fun, since it feels like you are casting a dead cat, but it sure catches big fish. Our local striper lake is turning over now, so the striper fishing has gone away for a while below the damn, but I am getting a box full of Double Bunny flies ready for when this fishing returns. I may have to break out the big rod and a few of these streamers next month when I will be fishing the White River in Arkansas. I feel a need to work some of these streamers in some holes in that river. Big Dale

Response:

GEORGE GEHRKE Snake River – Hell’s Canyon                     September 5, 2001, 12:00 AM Asotin, WA 99402 PH: 509-243-4100 FAX: 509-243-4644  The old adage, "If you want to catch big fish you should use big bait," has a proven history of working.  When it comes to streamers and their use, I can’t begin to tell all the stories involving the deadly use of them. Streamers are intended to perform two major things when fishing under water.  To entice as in offering an attractor and two, to duplicate something.  In the latter case, streamers are intended to duplicate minnows and small fish. There is a third presentation and that is the combining of the two of an attractor that is also a minnow.  The first streamer that comes to mind is the "Mickey Finn" because it is an attractor but also comes across as a small trout such as the rainbow, brown, or even the cutthroat.  Many large fish take streamers with great power because they sometimes only get a glimpse of it shooting by. I never go anywhere without a couple of these babies somewhere in my vest. Specifically, today I took Gladys out to "Ernie’s Restaurant" which is a Gulf Side place in South Panama City.  It sits among the docks and your view is that of beautiful boats moored dock side.  In between is the kind of clean water that has prowling Snook and other various predators. As we sat snacking on our entrees of crab-cakes and mushrooms laced with a large Jack Daniels Black and seven, I noticed the slick, mirrored water about a hundred yards up, between to docks starting to vibrate which is "nervous water" which really are minnows being corralled.  I said, "Gladys, look!  See that nervous water?  You’re about to see a very nice fish come leaping or swirling right there. Like us, the feed is on."  I no sooner say this and by golly, a very large Snook came out of the water with a mouthful of minnows while two others only slash and soon the water goes calm.  A minute later, the nervous water moves twenty yards toward the docks and under one of them.  The chase continues for over a half hour. Perhaps they were small mullet?  If one knew what they were and if they had a streamer that matched that nervous water, it would be a winner.  There is nothing more thrilling then catching a Snook that pushes twenty pounds or more.  Often these babies around docks are ten to fifteen pounders and on a fly rod one couldn’t ask for more. Well, saltwater fly fishing with streamers isn’t the only place you can catch big fish.  Fresh water streamers are the things one uses most often to set World Records with.  Del Canty of old is a prime example of a master streamer fly fisherman.  He once came to the American Sportsman’s Club in Denver Colorado with a 12 pound Rainbow he caught with a size 4 Muddler Minnow just above the Wigwam Club.  He used a sinking line and twitched that Muddler across the bottom of a deep pool and he was there at day break.  Catching big fish with streamers seems to work best at night, early morning and late evenings. When ocean running salmon and steelhead, both being anadromous fish, give the fly fisherman a great advantage because they come back to their birth rivers with memories.  Yes, conditioned memories, for they know what they’ve been chasing and feeding on a thousand miles away. IF, we as fly fishermen can "Match the Memory" with the proper streamers, you’ve hit a home run. Here, is a unique problem that presents itself.  As with the Mickey Finn, one is able to duplicate minnow type and attractive thoughts such as sparkle of the Minnie scales that explode and drift and shine during feeding attacks into schools of minnows.  We can duplicate the carnage in the red we use in our streamers for the blood, and you’re able to tie the baby smolt of other fish, the sardines, darters, any number of things that live in between you and their ocean homes. (Salmo gairdneri) The steelhead, will return to the ocean three and even four or more times but not much over that.  The salmon return and often propagate only once and then die.  Their flesh turns back into nutrients and returns to the sea.  Birds, animals, all that is in contact with a salmon river benefit directly and indirectly.  But the steelhead is a creature that can provide a fly fisherman with an endless amount of useful information.  For instance. Ocean prowling fish follow food to depths ranging in the hundreds of feet.  This is known to be true in all our deep land locked and Great Lakes.  Color becomes a primary concern to fly tiers and most everyone does not know that the color "Yellow" changes the deeper it goes under water. It doesn’t take much depth to affect yellow as the ultraviolet rays separate from normal white light when it enters the water.  Yellow becomes various shades of green.  If Steelhead or any other fish that is atune to a shade of green on an offering being offered deep, a green at the beginning will be the wrong green down deep, whereas one may want to consider starting with a shade of yellow for it to become the right shade of green upon arrival.  This is why I have some Green Butted Skunks tied with yellow butts instead of green, just in case. It works! What we don’t know about fly tying and streamers is infinitely greater then what we know, which means, we really don’t know all that much yet.  Streamers and tying them and then fishing them, even in these modern times is of less interest to the general fly fishing public then they were in the past.  I’m from the old streamer school of fly fishermen.  I’m one of those old fogies that did more (and still do) more streamer fly fishing then dry fly fishing.  In fact, I do three times more nymph fishing then I do dries.  To my mind, trout and most fish do 9/10ths of their feeding under water, not taking things off the top only 1/10th of the time.  Somehow, I think following the real action makes more sense.  True, dry fly fishing is the nicest thing to do since sex.  Who can argue with that.  Thank goodness fly fishing lasts longer. I don’t know what the real percentage is regarding how much food trout get under water but I’m confident it’s over 7/10ths of the time. Trout don’t like coming to the surface because it’s dangerous!  If the food supply and calorie content makes it worth it, sure they’re going to rise to the fly but it is still dangerous.  This is one of the main reasons STREAMERS make trout feel right at home.  They are used to chasing things and they like chasing my streamers. That, sort of makes me smile a lot. Out of a half dozen favorite flies I’d pick the Muddler Minnow and Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear as my first two choices.  The Muddler is so ugly it’s pretty.  Dave Whitlock has tied various styles of them and anyone who researches that aspect of his signature regarding Muddler Minnows will not be wasting their time. One should seine for the Muddler Minnows in their rivers for this could be an eye opener because they are often larger, darker, more big headed and uglier then you imagine.  Large trout don’t chase too many Muddlers because they are a well camouflaged fish and they hug the bottom in order to stay alive.  By offering a Muddler Minnow Streamer that comes off the bottom will get many fishes attention.  Many times when Steelhead fishing, you can track one of these in a convincing wake because you’re able to trim the chin in such a manner so it will plane properly.  Talk about a champion offering, this often will save the day. I often abandon streamers during the heat of the day not unless I can get into broken water where large fish are sulking under their window of safety.  Even then, the current is much too fast and you will often get only the eager, strong eighteen inch browns and bows.  It is NIGHT TIME where big fish come out to chase little fish up to about twelve to fourteen inches.  This is why one need not fear feeling ridiculous by offering a streamer monstrosity whenever it suits their fancy.  You know those big #2 4X hooks you have in storage slowly rusting away from lack of  use?  Well, those are the babies that those meat eating ten to twenty pound browns will chase willingly.  The darker the night, the better.  Never, never, never under estimate the seeing powers of trout’s eyes.  If you catch a big hog brown, do your future fishing a favor. Fillet it and send it to T-Bone for his Barbie. The attractive powers of streamers and night fishing is one of those unsung aspects of fly fishing that usually appeals to those who are willing to try anything new and who are not afraid of things that go thump in the night!  I knew of a day time worker that slept at night. He often fly fished at night and he always seemed to be catching the really big fish. Think about Bates and Steamers and Bodacious Browns.  You just might get hooked. Tying Streamers is really a LOT OF FUN!  Hooking up using them, even more!

Response:

Question:

There are some theories based on comparative analysis of DNA from rainbows native to this region versus that from rainbows native further north which point at them possibly being genetically the least changed and therefore the oldest. This is alluded to by Loev in his book "Flyfishing For Sharks."

Someone once told me that rainbow trout originated on the Pacific coast of Siberia. This guy is an outfitter on the Kamchatka Peninsula, so I took it with a grain of salt (bullshit detectors at work, Wayno , but it’s an interesting idea. I’m pretty sure that rainbows are native to Siberia, so there’s no reason they might not have originated there rather than in North America. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I’m pretty sure that rainbows are native to Siberia, so there’s no reason they might not have originated there rather than in North America.

Rainbows originated in the North Pacific basin, along with cutts and Pacific salmon. They were first classified by a Swedish scientist studying fish from Kamchatka, but there is no real evidence that they actually evolved there.

Response:

Someone once told me that rainbow trout originated on the Pacific coast of Siberia. This guy is an outfitter on the Kamchatka Peninsula, so I took it with a grain of salt (bullshit detectors at work, Wayno , but it’s an interesting idea. I’m pretty sure that rainbows are native to Siberia, so there’s no reason they might not have originated there rather than in North America.

The Russians certainly think this.  There are even some that think there’s evidence Oncorhynchus sp. as a group originated there.  The evidence is purely phenotypic, though, and they concede the evidence admits other possibilities.  Go to: http://www.psmfc.org/workshops/shconf98.html and scroll down to the last abstract, "The Diversity of Pacific Trouts in Kamchatkan Water Bodies". A "final" answer will probably have to await complete sequencing of the DNA from a number of native populations across the entire range of the species.  That’s no doubt a long way off.  There’s a lot of research being done on the genetics of rainbow trout (a complete nucleotide sequence for mitochondrial DNA was published in ‘95).  Much, probably most, of it is on hatchery and/or introduced populations rather than native ones. JR

Response:

… a complete nucleotide sequence for mitochondrial DNA was published in ‘95) …

Datapoint – within each cell of a human, there is one strand of mitochondrial DNA and 23 pairs (46 strands) of nuclear DNA. For salmon/trout, there is again just one strand of mitochondrial DNA but anywhere from ~26 to 39 pairs of nuclear DNA. The mitochondrial DNA is interesting because it is passed down maternally, so it is useful for tracking lineage. It is also the case that it is only ~16,500 base pairs (roughly letters) long and not highly variable. Nuclear DNA (also called genomic or genetic DNA) on the other hand is passed down from both parents, is constantly mixed up in each individual, and is really the stuff that controls who/what each of us is and or could be. In humans, genetic DNA represents roughly 3 billion base pairs, and in salmon/trout, roughly 2.4 billion base pairs. Many fish studies to date have tried to draw conclusions from the easier-to-work-with mitochondrial DNA, but the really interesting results will come from an in-depth study of the nuclear DNA.  As of last year, the more advanced studies going on in the Columbia Basin were drawing conclusions based on 17/1000 of 1% of the nuclear DNA. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Steelhead trout originated in Southern California … or points south in Mexico. San Diego county drainages had steelhead and salmon runs as late as the 1940’s. Recently, steelhead were discovered in San Mateo creek, just north of Camp Pendleton in San Diego county, and efforts are underway to return this stream to a viable steelhead fishery.  (A very uphill battle!) If you live in the San Diego/Orange County area and would like to participate in a ‘Camping/Cleanup" being conducted on September 8 and 9 (no fishing, strictly a habitat improvement mission), send me email and I’ll send you the details. FiddleAway

Response:

Steelhead trout originated in Southern California … or points south in Mexico.

?? JR

Response:

Steelhead trout originated in Southern California … or points south in Mexico. ??

At least when the last ice age retreated 10-13,000 years ago, there were ice sheets on both sides of the Columbia River, hence the Columbia is where salmon held over during the last ice age, and once the ice retreated, those salmon spread north and south to their current range. Going back in time, it would be interesting where else salmon many have "held over" and "originated". –tg

Response:

Steelhead trout originated in Southern California … or points south in Mexico. ?? JR

There are some theories based on comparative analysis of DNA from rainbows native to this region versus that from rainbows native further north which point at them possibly being genetically the least changed and therefore the oldest. This is alluded to by Loev in his book "Flyfishing For Sharks." Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

There are some theories based on comparative analysis of DNA from rainbows native to this region versus that from rainbows native further north which point at them possibly being genetically the least changed and therefore the oldest. This is alluded to by Loev in his book "Flyfishing For Sharks."

That’s interesting. I’ll steal a glance at that section of the book on my next visit to Borders, if they haven’t gone and sold it yet. (Sorry, Rich). Still, even if southern stocks of native rainbows are the oldest, it doesn’t necessarily mean that those stocks were the first to adopt anadromy. FiddleAway:  Do folks know where the steelhead "discovered" in Mateo Creek came from?  Are they strays or what?  Also, if you haven’t yet seen it, you might be interested in: http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/species/steelhead/ JR

Response:

Michael McGuire There are some theories based on comparative analysis of DNA from rainbows native to this region versus that from rainbows native further north which point at them possibly being genetically the least changed and therefore the oldest. This is alluded to by Loev in his book "Flyfishing For Sharks."

One theory is that Colorado Cutts are the grandaddies of the west coast trout strains.  The theory is that seagoiong cutts migrated into the Sea of Cortez and down the east coast of Baja, when the latter had a much wetter climate. Eventually these strains migrated down around Cabo and up the Pacific Coast, becoming the Steelhead/Rainbows we know today. The sourthern steelhead eventually developed a tolerance for warmer waters and a life cycle that could tolerate their home streams not being open to the sea every year. As I said before, salmon and steelhead were caught in San Diego county through the 1940’s (maybe later).  There is currently a trout fishery in Mexico on the Pacific side of its central mountain range.  The Melling Ranch is a commercial outfit that caters to people who wish to try this fishery … these trout are not seagoing trout, however. Today, there are still a few steelhead that return to Malibu Creek just north of LA.  At one time, NMFS had set Malibu as the southernmost point for giving special protection status to the fishery.  They’ve balked at extending the protective unit as far as San Mateo creek on the border of Orange/San Diego county, but DNA evidence has shown the trout found there to be a unique strain of southern steelhead.  Not sure what the current legal status is.  I think NMFS is still dragging its heels, but local clubs and conservation associations are continuing to push for restoration of this fishery. Hence, the clean up. FiddleAway

Response:

John Russell  wrote FiddleAway:  Do folks know where the steelhead "discovered" in Mateo Creek came from?  Are they strays or what?  Also, if you haven’t yet seen it, you might be interested in:

The folks I talked to pretty much subscribe to the theory I posted in another response. The study of the creek ensued after trout where caught in its upper reaches. Fin clippings from some 40 odd individuals showed that all of the trout were in the same, 2 year old, generation.  This fact correlated to a heavier winter, two years prior, that had opened up the mouth of the Creek to the ocean. DNA analysis ruled out any relation to stocked strains.  These were natural fish that chose to migrate into the creek from the ocean. FiddleAway

Response:

John Russell  wrote FiddleAway:  Do folks know where the steelhead "discovered" in Mateo Creek came from?  Are they strays or what?  Also, if you haven’t yet seen it, you might be interested in: The folks I talked to pretty much subscribe to the theory I posted in another response.

You’ll have to excuse me if I seem dense, but in your response to Michael (which is the only other one I’ve seen on my server, and I’m assuming is the one you mean), you only say that "DNA evidence has shown the trout found there to be a unique strain of southern steelhead."   The study of the creek ensued after trout where caught in its upper reaches. Fin clippings from some 40 odd individuals showed that all of the trout were in the same, 2 year old, generation.  This fact correlated to a heavier winter, two years prior, that had opened up the mouth of the Creek to the ocean. DNA analysis ruled out any relation to stocked strains.  These were natural fish that chose to migrate into the creek from the ocean.

So you’re saying that these are resident San Mateo rainbows that two years ago, for the first time in decades (or longer) migrated to sea–which is not at all impossible.  Or, in other words, that they are *not* strays from a neighboring population (either wild or stocked). Here’s the reason I asked (taken from the comments of the Southern California Steelhead Recovery Coalition to NMFS proposed extension of the S. Cal Steelhead ESU): "Although steelhead are known to have well-developed homing abilities (see P. B. Moyle, Inland fishes of California, [1976]), it is also known that southern steelhead commonly stray from their natal streams. This straying may be selectively advantageous because it would allow spawners to opportunistically utilize more favorable streams when their natal streams dried up or were blocked.  (See P. Higgins, Southern California Steelhead Recovery Assessment [1991]). An additional feature of southern steelhead is that they ‘miraculously’ reappeared in large spawning runs when flows became suitable in streams that had been dry or otherwise inaccessible during the previous one or more years. The implication is that streams within the historic range of the Southern California Steelhead ESU that are currently unoccupied may be rediscovered by steelhead at anytime. These unoccupied streams are likely to be discovered when habitat conditions in currently occupied streams are less favorable, indicating that all of the historical range of the Southern California Steelhead ESU is essential for the survival and recovery of this ESU." There’s a larger issue at stake here than the fate of the San Mateo population, as important as that is. JR

Response:

So you’re saying that these are resident San Mateo rainbows that two years ago, for the first time in decades (or longer) migrated to sea–which is not at all impossible.  Or, in other words, that they are *not* strays from a neighboring population (either wild or stocked).

No.  I haven’t heard of any evidence for that.  The DNA evidence shows that these trout are related to other southern steelhead. However, I’d be surprised if there aren’t at least anecdotal reports of people catching steelhead in San Mateo creek earlier in the century when all of the drainages in San Diego county were less impacted by development.  This would be consistent with the passage you quoted from the SCSRC. There’s a larger issue at stake here than the fate of the San Mateo population, as important as that is.

I agree, if you are talking about Southern Steelhead in general as the ‘larger issue’. FiddleAway

Response:

One theory is that Colorado Cutts are the grandaddies of the west coast trout strains.  … An interesting theory…I have not read that one.  

I haven’t either.  I have to admit, I am passing on information I got from someone I know who I take to be well informed on the subject. FiddleAway

Response:

One theory is that Colorado Cutts are the grandaddies of the west coast trout strains.  The theory is that seagoiong cutts migrated into the Sea of Cortez and down the east coast of Baja, when the latter had a much wetter climate. Eventually these strains migrated down around Cabo and up the Pacific Coast, becoming the Steelhead/Rainbows we know today.

An interesting theory…I have not read that one.  My understanding is that the rainbow and cutthroat ancestral lines diverged perhaps as long ago as the Pliocene, and then each ancestral line diverged again to become the species/subspecies that we find today (redband and coastal rainbows and the various subspecies of cutts). Interestingly enough, the southernmost known species of salmonids occurring in watersheds that drain to the Pacific (the Mexican Golden Trout, Apache Trout, and Gila Trout) all appear to be more closely related to rainbows than to cutts.  I would expect the reverse to be true if Colorado River cutts represent the ancestral strain.

Response:

At least when the last ice age retreated 10-13,000 years ago, there were ice sheets on both sides of the Columbia River, hence the Columbia is where salmon held over during the last ice age, and once the ice retreated, those salmon spread north and south to their current range. Going back in time, it would be interesting where else salmon many have "held over" and "originated".

Actually, there appear to have been perhaps 4 evolutionary lines of Rainbow (or Rainbow ancestors) in the Sea of Cortez during the four Pleistocene glacial maxima.  These evolutionary lines are thought to be the source of Apache trout, Gila trout, Mexican Golden trout, and several other unclassified strains (if not distinct species) in the Sierra Madre Occidental range in Mexico.

Response:

Question:

Hey, I’m starting my first thread! What I want to know is, how much do non-shy people who work together talk to each other? I’ve been working with the same guy all day for a week and a half and I’ve hardly been talking, which is usual for me and at least I haven’t been totally silent.  I don’t see how people could keep conversation going all the time but maybe I should be making more of an effort to talk (of course I should be  ) What do you think? Beckie

Response:

On 14 Jan 2001 13:13:20 GMT, becki…@my-deja.com wrote: >Hey, I’m starting my first thread! >What I want to know is, how much do non-shy people who work together talk >to each other?

Depends on the nature of the job and whether there’s a supervisor hanging around.  It could range from every five minutes to once every couple of hours.  Sometimes when I’m working I need complete concentration and a conversation is the last thing I want. >I’ve been working with the same guy all day for a week and a half and I’ve >hardly been talking, which is usual for me and at least I haven’t been >totally silent.

Good.  The more you try to talk the easier it becomes as you develop your skills. Learning to converse is just like taking up a new hobby – fly fishing, tennis, judo etc.  You start off by learning the basics and eventually, hopefully, move onto the more advanced stuff.  Don’t approach it like learning to play the guitar, by trying it for a couple of weeks, deciding you’re useless and then giving up forever. A few months ago we had a new employee in our department who’s shy and it took her a couple of months to become comfortable enough to engage in conversation with others. >  I don’t see how people could keep conversation going all >the time but maybe I should be making more of an effort to talk (of course >I should be  )

By all means, make an effort to talk more.  Work is a good place to start conversations because you can talk about work related topics and gradually shift the conversation onto more personal topics.  Conversations are obviously  much easier if you’re actually interested in talking about the subject.  I mean, if somebody starts going on about anime, my eyes glaze over instantly. Mike

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becki…@my-deja.com wrote in message <93s8lg$ff…@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>… >Hey, I’m starting my first thread! >What I want to know is, how much do non-shy people who work together talk >to each other? >I’ve been working with the same guy all day for a week and a half and I’ve >hardly been talking, which is usual for me and at least I haven’t been >totally silent.  I don’t see how people could keep conversation going all >the time but maybe I should be making more of an effort to talk (of course >I should be  ) >What do you think?

A week and a half is not really a lot of time to get to know someone so you won’t know what he likes to talk about. I guess you could concentrate on asking questions (apart from work) like what he likes doing, his family, etc. Maybe think about what you want to talk about yourself and ask him first because chances are he might reply with "how about you?". Silence at work can reach extremes. (Sorry, this is a bit morbid but it made me laugh.) http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1113000/1113955.stm

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hi, I have a nice degree and I am 23. I started my first job and got fired after 2 days. I didn’t talk. YThey thought I was stupid. But I was the most clever man around. It is hard, but after some weeks you will talk more. Because you only need confidence. Javier – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -becki…@my-deja.com wrote: > Hey, I’m starting my first thread! > What I want to know is, how much do non-shy people who work together talk > to each other? > I’ve been working with the same guy all day for a week and a half and I’ve > hardly been talking, which is usual for me and at least I haven’t been > totally silent.  I don’t see how people could keep conversation going all > the time but maybe I should be making more of an effort to talk (of course > I should be  ) > What do you think? > Beckie

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J.Dominguez <J.Doming…@chello.nl> wrote: > I have a nice degree and I am 23. I started my first job and got fired after 2 > days. I didn’t talk. YThey thought I was stupid. But I was the most clever man > around. It is hard, but after some weeks you will talk more. Because you only > need confidence.

… and something to talk about That’s my problem.  I just realised the other day I’m not really shy if I have something to say.  When I did philosophy I was one of the most talkative people in my tutorial group but outside the class I couldn’t think of anything to say. Thanks to everyone who replied for your advice Beckie

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>Hey, I’m starting my first thread! >What I want to know is, how much do non-shy people who work together talk >to each other? >I’ve been working with the same guy all day for a week and a half and I’ve >hardly been talking, which is usual for me and at least I haven’t been >totally silent.  I don’t see how people could keep conversation going all >the time but maybe I should be making more of an effort to talk (of course >I should be  ) >What do you think? >Beckie

At work (and in my life in general) I will talk if spoken to first, but I have trouble starting a conversation with someone. If it’s work related, it’s a little easier, but when it comes to small talk, I’m clueless. -Rich

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Richard Kim <rkk…@aol.comatose> wrote: > At work (and in my life in general) I will talk > if spoken to first, but I have trouble starting a conversation with someone. If > it’s work related, it’s a little easier, but when it comes to small talk, I’m > clueless.

That’s me too, that’s why I was asking what I _should_ be doing Beckie

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Hey Becks, Nobody talks all the time. Nobody. (Okay, I do know a few people that talk ALL THE TIME, but I consider them to be psychotic.) I find that when you work an hour or two with somebody, you can keep up a low-intensity, chatty conversation for that long. When it gets to be all day, you skip in and out of little chats. Sometimes you jump into a full conversation for a while. Things eventually fall off, and then you go back to work. On the other hand, if you don’t like chatting with them, you don’t talk much.     Douglas <becki…@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:93s8lg$ffq$4@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey, I’m starting my first thread! > What I want to know is, how much do non-shy people who work together talk > to each other? > I’ve been working with the same guy all day for a week and a half and I’ve > hardly been talking, which is usual for me and at least I haven’t been > totally silent.  I don’t see how people could keep conversation going all > the time but maybe I should be making more of an effort to talk (of course > I should be  ) > What do you think? > Beckie

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Question:

Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers: PO Box 5981 Stateline, NV 89449 (702)588-0862 112a Cervantes Street San Francisco, CA 94123 (415)928-6025 25 Stillman st. #200 San Francico, CA 94109 (415)281-3104 Wanna meet someone tonight? It costs ONLY $1 per minute CALL NOW :  1-800-750-GIRL (4475) These girls are not phonesex workers. They are horny girls who are on the

line cuz it’s free phonesex for them. You are free to arrange to meet anyone you meet on this line. Give it a try! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -EnjoyKIeTXJuN

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Wolfgang Siebeneich schrieb:  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds? Seconded !  ( average sixty to the minute ! ).

I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and Wayno too !! — Ken Fortenberry

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Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t. Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Seconded !  ( average sixty to the minute ! ). TL MC

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I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and Wayno too !!

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman?

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Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t. Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Here! babob

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Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman?

Yes, my name is E. Gaduair, but I prefer that you not refer to me as EGAD!! And could someone tell me just what the Germans have done to piss-off you folks. Opie in NC

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Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman? Yes, my name is E. Gaduair, but I prefer that you not refer to me as EGAD!! And could someone tell me just what the Germans have done to piss-off you folks. Opie in NC

Tut mir ausserordentlich leid, aber ich habe kein Wort verstanden. TL MC

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It’s all very clear to me now! NC Opie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tut mir ausserordentlich leid, aber ich habe kein Wort verstanden. TL MC

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Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

News Groups.  Public fora, are they not?  Seems to suggest that ANYONE is free to post.  Even some dumbass peddling his porn.  Everyone else, on the other hand, is free to whip his naked ass back where he came from or simply ignore him.  Or ignore Mr. Harrison for that matter.  Or you.  Or me. So, what’s germane?  Ignore everything that’s not strictly about fly fishing on this NG and you don’t have a great deal left to read.  Are your insults germane?  Why are they more germane than Mr. Harrison’s?  Wayne has posted a great deal of welcome information on these pages.  Has Chris W.?  Has Mr. Nardini?  Have you, Bobby? Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t.  Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

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[deleted]  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

You mean like your (and mine) crossposted double-drivel ? Thanks for the NG lesson Robert ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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wayno "the professor" relates: <<finally, let me close with a few more childish remarks:  bite me, robbie baby; and, for good measure, "na na nah na na naahh".         you are now free to continue your graduate level studies in anal retentiveness. roflmao.  what a way to start out the day!  hey, why am i typing all in lower case?   louie

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Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers:

        gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno

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Here ya go Wayno!  Anything else you need you just gimme a Want to talk with REAL horny girls? This is something VERY new in phone sex. The women on the line are NOT paid. They call for free phone sex with guys like YOU! Guys: 50 cents per minute Girls: TOTALLY FREE discreetly directly to your phone bill. For gay talk call: 1-888-800-GUYS (toll-free) For Dominance & Submission Call: 888-700-WHIP l

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Here ya go Wayno!  Anything else you need you just gimme a

ahhhhhhhhh… ROFF is darwinian lol waldo Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers:         gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno

  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

        what you need is a good cyber ass whipping, which i will happily provide.         you also need some help with your grammar and spelling.         finally, let me close with a few more childish remarks:  bite me, robbie baby; and, for good measure, "na na nah na na naahh".         you are now free to continue your graduate level studies in anal retentiveness.         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Has anyone had any experience with the Winston and Sage 5 piece rods that they would like to share, characteristics / advantages of one over the other, etc.?  I’m specifically interested in the 6W as I’m planning a trip to New Zealand where I’m told the wind blows fierce and the fish are big enough to warrant it.  I’m living overseas (Japan) traveling a lot, and having a rod I can toss into a suitcase or duffel with a reel and a box of flies could make the difference between fishing and not on a given trip.  Please answer via direct e-mail as I do not get a chance to go through the forum as often as I would like.  Thanks in advance. Dean Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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My first home rolled rod was built on a 3-piece Winston blank. To my way of thinking, the 3pc. broken-down length was ideal… not quite a suitcase rod, but small enough to fit into the overhead compartment on an airplane. & it was a Winston… Unfortunately, I slipped on an icy rock while attempting some winter fishing and shattered the butt section beyond repair. I’ve made a couple of other 2pc. fly rods since, but they don’t hold a candle to the Winston. my  $.20 Robert Hudson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone had any experience with the Winston and Sage 5 piece rods that they would like to share, characteristics / advantages of one over the other, etc.?  I’m specifically interested in the 6W as I’m planning a trip to New Zealand where I’m told the wind blows fierce and the fish are big enough to warrant it.  I’m living overseas (Japan) traveling a lot, and having a rod I can toss into a suitcase or duffel with a reel and a box of flies could make the difference between fishing and not on a given trip.  Please answer via direct e-mail as I do not get a chance to go through the forum as often as I would like.  Thanks in advance. I have a Sage 5-piece, 5-weight. SP and all I can say is that it’s one sweet MF. I needed a pack rod, and I tried various 3-piece and 4-piece rods, but none was better than this one. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

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Has anyone had any experience with the Winston and Sage 5 piece rods that they would like to share, characteristics / advantages of one over the other, etc.?  I’m specifically interested in the 6W as I’m planning a trip to New Zealand where I’m told the wind blows fierce and the fish are big enough to warrant it.  I’m living overseas (Japan) traveling a lot, and having a rod I can toss into a suitcase or duffel with a reel and a box of flies could make the difference between fishing and not on a given trip.  Please answer via direct e-mail as I do not get a chance to go through the forum as often as I would like.  Thanks in advance.

I have a Sage 5-piece, 5-weight. SP and all I can say is that it’s one sweet MF. I needed a pack rod, and I tried various 3-piece and 4-piece rods, but none was better than this one. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

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Question:

I have recently moved from Utah to Georgia.  Can anyone help with some good places to fish?

Hi Brett, Welcome to Georgia. Let me know what part of the state you’re in and the type of fishing that interests you, and I’m sure I can give you some suggestions. Dave — Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

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I have recently moved from Utah to Georgia.  Can anyone help with some good places to fish?

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I have recently moved from Utah to Georgia.  Can anyone help with some good places to fish?

There are a number of places to FF for trout. Not the wide open streams and rivers of the West, but plenty of fishing. Try North Georgia Trout On-line at http://www.efh.com/~ngtrout That should put you on the trail….. -John Carney

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Question:

I will be fishing with a guide May 18, 19 and 20, but my flight arrives in Key West the afternoon before and I don’t want to waste it. Can anyone reccomend a wading spot in the Key West area? I have never been that far down the keys. Thanks.

I, too, plan on visiting the Keys to do some fly fishing.  I won

Question:

I received a catalog in the mail from Angler’s Covey today…(since I’m VERY new to FFing, I’m not able to evaluate it…) The humorous part of it is, they had a note attached that said something to the effect of "Due to the overwhelming response for our 1995 catalog, we can only supply you with a prior year catalog…call for updated prices." It was a 1993 catalog…I wonder if the info on this group had anything to do with it?  :) Fish on!, JC Angler’s Covey, Inc. 917 W. Colorado Ave. Colorado, Springs, CO. 80905 719-471-2984 800-753-4746 mail order Full service shop with anything you might need, including; gear, tackle, advice, guides, classes, etc.  Nice, knowledgable folks.  Mention my name.  It shouldn’t run the prices up too much. Bryan

<snipped tag

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No One mentioned my favorites in Denver The Complete Angler – Arapahoe Road & I-25 in Englewood Co (Denver Sub) Pricey but knowledge is abundant. Only First Class Stuff. All Pro Fish N’ Sport 6221 S. Sante Fe Littleton Co. 80120 Bigger selection harder to find Mike Peters —- Fishing, Camping, MWC, Home office, Colorado, Micrographics, Computers, Electronics, TV/VCR/Audio repair.

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try the Front Range Angler in Boulder-great shop with great selection of flies/ equipment

: I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in : Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. : Dale Owens

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I’ve had great luck with the St. Vrain Angler in Longmont (303) 776-5228.   There’s another posting I just saw that gave the number a CO angling info line and for the Estes Angler (303) 586-2110, owned by the same guy. Both truly full service shops, guides are good teachers.  

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You asked I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in

Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dale Owens ****** Two good shops Front Range Angler — Boulder [303] 494-1375 Angler’s All — Littleton [303] 794-1104 Joe Lhotka Colorado USA

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I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dale Owens

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I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Saint Peter’s Fly in Fort Collins (303-498-8968) are a professional and friendly, congenial bunch of folks.  Another good one is in Longmont on 4th street, but I forget the name. — -Wayne Trzyna

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: I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in : Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. : Dale Owens Angler’s Covey, Inc. 917 W. Colorado Ave. Colorado, Springs, CO. 80905 719-471-2984 800-753-4746 mail order Full service shop with anything you might need, including; gear, tackle, advice, guides, classes, etc.  Nice, knowledgable folks.  Mention my name.  It shouldn’t run the prices up too much. Bryan Remember:  Fishing is NOT a matter of life and death.               It is much more important than that!            Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.               Teach a man to fish and you get rid of him on weekends. Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone. Hewlett-Packard Co.       |  But then, I’ve never let that stop me before.     P.O. BOX 2197             |    Many men go fishing all their lives without Colorado Springs, Co 80901|    knowing that it is not fish they are after.

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try the Front Range Angler in Boulder-great shop with great selection of flies/ equipment : I am looking for the name and phone numbers of full service fly shops in : Colorado. Any help would be greatly appreciated. : Dale Owens

ANGLER’S COVEY ON WEST COLORADO STREET (what else?) IN COLORADO SPRINGS. GOOD PEOPLE.  KNOWLEDGEABLE.  FRIENDLY.  COOPERATIVE.  (Orvis Shop, so it can be pricey, but what the heck – you can’t have everything). This flatland furriner stops there everytime I make my annual pilgrimage to the South Platte. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Has anyone heard if Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine (not Flyfishing in Saltwater) has started to publish again?  Someone told me that they recently received another issue. Marshall Cutchin

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Yes, the SFF magazine resumes its business, I received my subscription couple weeks back after missing couple issues. To you northeast flyfishers, there is a good article on flat fishing on the Cape Cod area. Thi Nguyen

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Has anyone heard if Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine (not Flyfishing in Saltwater) has started to publish again?  Someone told me that they recently received another issue. Marshall Cutchin

Yep…though I havent had a chance to talk with Barbera Fine yet, they seem to be up and running again. I got an issue last saturday out of the blue.

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Has anyone heard if Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine (not Flyfishing in Saltwater) has started to publish again?  Someone told me that they recently received another issue.

I rcv’d an issue as well. In the Editor’s comments, they mentioned the outage, and that they are back in business again with a new publisher. Good news, I would say!  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge…..

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