Question:

Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel.   That’s 150 freaking feet!! Now if I can only get over my Whirlpool paranoia (losing flies on the rocks on the backcast.) The Airflo shooting head system is super slick, never noticed the loops going through the guides.  I’m in love . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

[shoot].   That’s 150 freaking feet!!

Man that’s gonna take awhile to get back on the spool Now if I can only get over my Whirlpool paranoia (losing flies on the rocks on the backcast.)

You have rocks in a laundry that is big enough for a 150ft cast? Everything *is* bigger up there The Airflo shooting head system is super slick, never noticed the loops going through the guides.  I’m in love . . .

Noted. (The airflo bit At least when you lose the whole fly you usually realise pretty quick,   losing the damn point is a much more subtle affair in the implementation and detection … Steve

Response:

[shoot].   That’s 150 freaking feet!! Man that’s gonna take awhile to get back on the spool

Marquis Salmon No.3 – not long Now if I can only get over my Whirlpool paranoia (losing flies on the rocks on the backcast.) You have rocks in a laundry that is big enough for a 150ft cast? Everything *is* bigger up there

Here’s a view of my washing machine. http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/whirlpool/spey_casting_the_line_layou… The Airflo shooting head system is super slick, never noticed the loops going through the guides.  I’m in love . . . Noted. (The airflo bit At least when you lose the whole fly you usually realise pretty quick,   losing the damn point is a much more subtle affair in the implementation and detection … Steve

Not with the big heads – there’s so much momentum it’s easy to snap it off and fish sans fly without noticing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Here’s a view of my washing machine.

That the cable car line overhead? Joe F.

Response:

Here’s a view of my washing machine. That the cable car line overhead? Joe F.

And how long will it take him to tangle his line in that ?  That’ll piss em off Scott

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Here’s a view of my washing machine. That the cable car line overhead? Joe F.

Yup, it used_to_be out of reach. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel. That’s 150 freaking feet!!

In the U.S that’s only 100′

Response:

Here’s a view of my washing machine. http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/whirlpool/spey_casting_the_line_layou…

S’a beautiful looking spot. Not with the big heads – there’s so much momentum it’s easy to snap it off and fish sans fly without noticing.

Yeah, thinking about it that sounds reasonable.  My only experience has been with lightweight (for heads) #8 #9 and the whole thing can "get out of shape" a lot easier than the conventional #4, & 6 WF setups I use.   I wonder how many Whirlpools there are world wide … I can think of 2 here in Aus. that I’ve fished … one in the salt and one in fresh.  I have pics of both somewhere, but your washing machine winds hands down for scenerics. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel. That’s 150 freaking feet!! In the U.S that’s only 100′

My turn – BITE ME! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel. That’s 150 freaking feet!!

So how do you hook up with 150 freaking feet of line out? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

… That’s 150 freaking feet!! So how do you hook up with 150 freaking feet of line out?

Accidentally. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Now if I can only get over my Whirlpool paranoia (losing flies on the rocks on the backcast.)

Have you considered trying a cut 850 grain Scientific Anglers Deepwater Express shooting head? I use a soft 8 wt rod in the surf and my preferred setup is about 18 feet of LC-13 connected to a running line.  I like having a short shooting head because sometimes the fish are in really close or they follow the fly all the way close to shore.  Whether I land the fish or not, I have a minimal amount of work to do in order to get the head out past the guides again in preparation for another cast since the head is so short.  Also, there are always dogs, kids, frisbees and who knows what else sneaking up behind me so the short head reduces the chances of incidental non-piscine hookups. A short head is also easier to lift back up to the surface when getting ready for the next cast.  You lose some distance and the transition from back cast to forward cast feels more abrupt (the latter can be minimized by altering your casting motion) but I really like it for the kind of fishing I do especially given that my St. Croix is a slow action rod. You could chop that SA DWE 850 grain head down to 15 feet and still have a 425 grain head. But Airflo has the fastest sinking heads.  That DWE 850 is rated at 9-10 IPS.  A 300 grain Airflo will (purportedly) sink just as fast. Mu

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Have you considered trying a cut 850 grain Scientific Anglers Deepwater Express shooting head? I use a soft 8 wt rod in the surf and my preferred setup is about 18 feet of LC-13 connected to a running line.  I like having a short shooting head because sometimes the fish are in really close or they follow the fly all the way close to shore.  Whether I land the fish or not, I have a minimal amount of work to do in order to get the head out past the guides again in preparation for another cast since the head is so short.  Also, there are always dogs, kids, frisbees and who knows what else sneaking up behind me so the short head reduces the chances of incidental non-piscine hookups. A short head is also easier to lift back up to the surface when getting ready for the next cast.  You lose some distance and the transition from back cast to forward cast feels more abrupt (the latter can be minimized by altering your casting motion) but I really like it for the kind of fishing I do especially given that my St. Croix is a slow action rod. You could chop that SA DWE 850 grain head down to 15 feet and still have a 425 grain head. But Airflo has the fastest sinking heads.  That DWE 850 is rated at 9-10 IPS.  A 300 grain Airflo will (purportedly) sink just as fast. Mu

I’ve done that before with a DWE 850 but I *really* didn’t like how they casted.  The Airflo Type 7 on a 15′6" rod isn’t a handful at all and can be brought in quite close.  The rod action allows some loading in tight in the event you just want to fish in front of you and the loops are so smooth, they’ll run through the guides with no problem. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Took the 15′6" 11 wt. Daiwa to the park at lunch for the first trials with the Airflo shooting head system.  I had on it a 45′ 12 wt. Airflo Type 7 shooting head with a 5′ leader – all attached to 100′ of Airflo running line and practiced my overhead casting with the big stick.  On the fourth cast, I pulled out the backing knot between the stripper and the reel. That’s 150 freaking feet!! So how do you hook up with 150 freaking feet of line out?

Ken’s right – 15 lbs. of steelie  or 30 lbs. of chinook doesn’t require any finesse – the fish hook themselves and with 15′ 6" of rod in the air, I can move a lot of line.  The furthest out I’ve hooked a fish so far has been about 80′-85′ on a streamer (below Lower Dam on the Rapid – about a 2 1/2 lb. salmon.).  There’s so much current pressure on the line that soon as you feel weight and tighten up, the pressure on the line sets the hook. Avoiding breaking off the fish, is the second biggest challenge.  It is real easy to overpower your tippet with that rod in those conditions.  Hooking up isn’t a big deal, getting ‘em to strike when things are slow – that’s the real challenge. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/whirlpool/spey_casting_the_line_layou… S’a beautiful looking spot.

Here is Mapquest’s rendition of the Whirlpool http://makeashorterlink.com/?U2DA6278 Looks like it’s about 900 across.  And that ain’t slack water in there. Look at the direction of the river (flows northwards).  I slams into the whirlpool in a northwesterly direction and then pours out northeasterly. Or maybe this is just the "shadow" Whirlpool Mu

Response:

loops are so smooth, they’ll run through the guides with no problem.

Are those the seamless polymer loops?  My Rio intermediate shooting head has a loop with some sort of sleeve on it and it does not traverse the guides very well. Mu

Response:

loops are so smooth, they’ll run through the guides with no problem. Are those the seamless polymer loops?  My Rio intermediate shooting head has a loop with some sort of sleeve on it and it does not traverse the guides very well. Mu

Yup, the Head loop is conventional looking but small.  The running line loop is the fused polymer type, very large so it can be slipped over a spool – very well thought out. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Mr Charles,   We are sorry to inform you sir that we will have to cry FOUL on the posting of that picture. To think that someone would have the cajones to post something like that only in the interest of teasing others. A pox upon you sir. Is there room in that whirlpool for 2? –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around.

Response:

–SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around.

Then keep Epps out of the stew. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Mr Charles,  We are sorry to inform you sir that we will have to cry FOUL on the posting of that picture. To think that someone would have the cajones to post something like that only in the interest of teasing others. A pox upon you sir.

nah, nah – I got my pox shots already – a pox back at ya Is there room in that whirlpool for 2?

Well sure, we can always fit in one more.  Just leave the pox at home. –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around.

Ah, I see you’ve met one or two already.  <g Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter Charles: –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around. Ah, I see you’ve met one or two already.  <g Peter

Dave, 4.2L A6

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Charles: –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around. Ah, I see you’ve met one or two already.  <g Peter Dave, 4.2L A6

Perish the thought! This only applies to those guys that drive (and there’s only a few left) those gray Grumman A-6’s. I’ve noticed they aren’t real good around gondola wires. –SteveC– Who lives far too close to 2 naval air stations

Response:

Dave, 4.2L A6 Perish the thought! This only applies to those guys that drive (and there’s only a few left) those gray Grumman A-6’s. I’ve noticed they aren’t real good around gondola wires. –SteveC– Who lives far too close to 2 naval air stations

Ahh, that was a just little too obscure for us.  We’re slipping obviously. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr Charles,  We are sorry to inform you sir that we will have to cry FOUL on the posting of that picture. To think that someone would have the cajones to post something like that only in the interest of teasing others. A pox upon you sir. nah, nah – I got my pox shots already – a pox back at ya Is there room in that whirlpool for 2? Well sure, we can always fit in one more.  Just leave the pox at home. –SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around. Ah, I see you’ve met one or two already.  <g Peter

Unfortunately yes, I have. You can always spot ‘em from a mile off too, they love those big watches! –SteveC– I thought the Avenger was a comic book hero? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

–SteveC– I’ll show if there are no A-6 drivers around. Then keep Epps out of the stew.

Frank got it though – who ever said military intelligence is an oxymoron. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

John, I am headin’ down to Graham County in the morn to do some recon.  I plan to fish as well.  I may camp over night, and will most certainly look for some campgrounds close to the streams!  

There’s a real nice one on Santeetlah, Tom Brown has the map coordinates, and the junction on Snowbird is good too – the porta potties had been nicely ventilated by shotguns last time I was there. <g — Charlie…

Response:

My most sincere apologies Wolfgang.  I figured since you would be ridin’ into Graham County with me that you would be able to find our campsite without too much trouble?  However, I had forgotten that you would be trippin’ all over yourself in that strapless evening gown of Satan. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, I am headin’ down to Graham County in the morn to do some recon. I plan to fish as well.  I may camp over night, and will most certainly look for some campgrounds close to the streams!  I will let you know as soon as I return. Sure, you just go ahead and tell John!  I think maybe I’ll just sleep in the middle of the road or something……that’s o.k.       Wolfgang cup…….

Response:

There’s a real nice one on Santeetlah, Tom Brown has the map coordinates, and the junction on Snowbird is good too – the porta potties had been nicely ventilated by shotguns last time I was there. <g — Charlie…

I’m glad to here that the *outhouse* has already been ventilated, as I have already given decent gun owners a bad name, and don’t want to have to unload a clip on a defenseless shithouse.  These campsites that you speak of, these are the one where the RealMen stay, right?  Wolfgang will be accompanying me and he is easily frightened by things that go bump in the night. Consequently, I may have to sew some straps on to his evening gown, trip hazard and all that ya know (he ain’t got no breastys to hold up the gown). BTW, folks might want to bring along some blaze orange, as huntin’ season is in full swing in that neck of the woods.  Sure hope I don’t give them bow hunters a bad name, when I show up with my bows and arrow? Op

Response:

These campsites that you speak of, these are the one where the RealMen stay, right?  

The one on Santeetlah is ‘primitive’ – no outhouses nearby. It is really nice though, basically a small clearing maybe 10 yards off the road next to the stream. It looked like it has been used as a hunting camp, so it may be occupied – but I think it was early October when Tom and I first spotted it and there was nobody there (or even in the vicinity) then. — Charlie…

Response:

I know this may sound a little weird but how about a float tube anchored just outside of the "thermal boundary" line in your photo?  Can you float down from above the fish and anchor before the "Upstream access point (or that rock sticking up from the stream)? I know this is a secret place and I’m not asking the exact location but is this pool on the Westfield?  It looks familiar.  I lived in MA for most of my life and fished the Deerfield, Westfield (main and west branches), and Millers and Swift quite a bit but haven’t been to any in the last year (I moved to NJ last year and some of my favorite Penna streams are now closer). Bill

Response:

I know this may sound a little weird but how about a float tube anchored just outside of the "thermal boundary" line in your photo?  Can you float down from above the fish and anchor before the "Upstream access point (or that rock sticking up from the stream)? I know this is a secret place and I’m not asking the exact location but is this pool on the Westfield?  It looks familiar.  I lived in MA for most of my life and fished the Deerfield, Westfield (main and west branches), and Millers and Swift quite a bit but haven’t been to any in the last year (I moved to NJ last year and some of my favorite Penna streams are now closer). Bill

Response:

My most sincere apologies Wolfgang.  I figured since you would be ridin’ into Graham County with me that you would be able to find our campsite without too much trouble?  

Huh?  Oh.  Yeah……I knew that!  Tell me again about the rabbits! However, I had forgotten that you would be trippin’ all over yourself in that strapless evening gown of Satan.

Sure, YOU try wading in pumps some time!    :( Wolfgang please don’t squeeze the charmeuse

Response:

My most sincere apologies Wolfgang.  I figured since you would be ridin’ into Graham County with me that you would be able to find our campsite without too much trouble? Huh?  Oh.  Yeah……I knew that!  Tell me again about the rabbits!

Rabbits?  Well, they are really big critters with huge ears and long trunks. They are very afraid of mice also! However, I had forgotten that you would be trippin’ all over yourself in that strapless evening gown of Satan. Sure, YOU try wading in pumps some time!    :(

Pumps!  You sissy-boy.  Pumps aren’t for RealMen.  RealMen wade in high-heels.  Studded of course. Op – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang please don’t squeeze the charmeuse

Response:

To summarize then: 1. Shallow water 2. Complex current 3. No easy presentation 4. Tough wading What is the mend/cast combination best suited to these fish? I would restrict this to dry fly/emerger fishing, i.e. the challenge is to get the best float. No nymphs or streamers. I have a marked up picture here of the actual spot from Spring this year: http://www.rockypond.com/image.jpg

This is probably the coolest question that’s been posted here in a long time! p.s.  Sorry, can’t help you  Streamers/woolly buggers are always worth a try in tough currents, since fish are used to seeing bigger things like that move under their own power against currents.

Response:

Here’s what I would do….. Now you said (facing downstream) that to the right is a soft muddy bottom? Well, tie on a cone head wooly bugger. Cast down stream to the right of the rock that is showing…just as far as you can….mend to put your line to the left of the rock. Let the current carry your line and as much backing as needed downstream. Hauling back on your line, the current will straighten your line out and swing the bugger over to the left along the brush side..You may wish to wait a minute or two..to rest the water a bit. Then you can fish, retrieving your line in small strips, bouncing that rascal right along the bottom. I like a bugger with a dark  green and rust colored tail with a dash of flash, rust medium chenille wrapped three times to give it body, ribbed with black hackle. Tungsten cone head on a long shanked hook….imitates a crayfish/crawdad very nicely. john

Response:

a kayak. john

Response:

John, I am headin’ down to Graham County in the morn to do some recon.  I plan to fish as well.  I may camp over night, and will most certainly look for some campgrounds close to the streams!  I will let you know as soon as I return. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a kayak. john

Response:

Actually not really a poser, but perhaps a request for opinions. This is a problem that has been bothering me for a while and I guess I need a distraction this evening. On this Massachussets stream, which some here might know, there is this particular pool.

Remainder snipped How about a float tube? — Bob Weinberger – La Grande, OR

Response:

I’ve fished water like this anchored from a raft, but you’ve excluded that option.  So getting into the sticks is really the only way to go if wading is out.  Bow and arrow roll casts into slow water work. Up to you to place enough line out so the drift is right.  If fish cruise, spend 90% of your time watching and 10% (or even less) casting and with the fly on the water.  Looking down the gob of 4lb+ fish that has just taken something at your feet is almost more fun than catching it. Looking at the photo, there’s a lot of scrub around, you might like to try the ’splat’ of a terrestrial – a beetle is more than likely to worl in that spot. BTW: You didn’t exclude traditional wets/spiders  … Enjoy your secret spot, Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually not really a poser, but perhaps a request for opinions. This is a problem that has been bothering me for a while and I guess I need a distraction this evening. On this Massachussets stream, which some here might know, there is this particular pool. This river warms up very quickly in late spring and summer and holds nice smallmouth bass. However, a secret, as far as I can tell as I am the only one I ever see fish there, is that there are huge browns and rainbows that holdover. The trout concentrate in one section of the river. This is due to a feeder stream that provides thermal relief. Moreover, the trout can be seen feeding sideways or perpendicular to the river’s *overall* direction of flow. To fish from below is difficult because the bottom is muddy and unsafe, leaving the angler with a straight upstream cast. From upstream the bottom is better but the water is deep for wading and there is not much of a back cast/steeple cast. Straight down-and-in is just about do-able, but in general this spooks the fish. Roll cast is possible but the water is a slackish back eddy i.e. mending is difficult. A canoe or something would do it, allowing a large mend upstream, but none of the river beyond here is floatable, so let’s leave that out, just for shits. I confess that I have caught these fish, but only at dusk and only when there was enough garbage in the substrate to keep the fish interested and more forgiving…. my best was a 24" rainbow which is amazing for a Mass stream. To summarize then: 1. Shallow water 2. Complex current 3. No easy presentation 4. Tough wading What is the mend/cast combination best suited to these fish? I would restrict this to dry fly/emerger fishing, i.e. the challenge is to get the best float. No nymphs or streamers. From what I gather from your picture, the current in this area is like a

whirlpool.  These areas are hard to get a good drift through them no matter how you approach them. Given your scenerio, I would go with a straight upstream cast using a reach to place the flyline to the right and out of the current. You could even place or mend the flyline onto the bank leaving the leader and tippet in the "zone". Using a long tippet would help give you a reasonable drift. Like you found, reduced light and tinted water makes the whole things easier. There are areas like this all around the Country. I call them transition zones: places where the the water conditions are changing from a cold water river to a warm water one. These areas will hold the largest trout in the entire river system because of the increased fertility and warmer temps.  There are usually fewer trout, sometimes very few, but they are often very large. In many places these areas are ignored because they don’t look like trout rivers. Willi

Response:

John, I am headin’ down to Graham County in the morn to do some recon.  I plan to fish as well.  I may camp over night, and will most certainly look for some campgrounds close to the streams!  I will let you know as soon as I return.

Sure, you just go ahead and tell John!  I think maybe I’ll just sleep in the middle of the road or something……that’s o.k.       Wolfgang cup…….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To summarize then: 1. Shallow water 2. Complex current 3. No easy presentation 4. Tough wading What is the mend/cast combination best suited to these fish? I would restrict this to dry fly/emerger fishing, i.e. the challenge is to get the best float. No nymphs or streamers. I have a marked up picture here of the actual spot from Spring this year: http://www.rockypond.com/image.jpg

Interesting photo. Maybe try dapping with a REALLY long rod? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Actually not really a poser, but perhaps a request for opinions. This is a problem that has been bothering me for a while and I guess I need a distraction this evening. On this Massachussets stream, which some here might know, there is this particular pool. This river warms up very quickly in late spring and summer and holds nice smallmouth bass. However, a secret, as far as I can tell as I am the only one I ever see fish there, is that there are huge browns and rainbows that holdover. The trout concentrate in one section of the river. This is due to a feeder stream that provides thermal relief. Moreover, the trout can be seen feeding sideways or perpendicular to the river’s *overall* direction of flow. To fish from below is difficult because the bottom is muddy and unsafe, leaving the angler with a straight upstream cast. From upstream the bottom is better but the water is deep for wading and there is not much of a back cast/steeple cast. Straight down-and-in is just about do-able, but in general this spooks the fish. Roll cast is possible but the water is a slackish back eddy i.e. mending is difficult. A canoe or something would do it, allowing a large mend upstream, but none of the river beyond here is floatable, so let’s leave that out, just for shits. I confess that I have caught these fish, but only at dusk and only when there was enough garbage in the substrate to keep the fish interested and more forgiving…. my best was a 24" rainbow which is amazing for a Mass stream. To summarize then: 1. Shallow water 2. Complex current 3. No easy presentation 4. Tough wading What is the mend/cast combination best suited to these fish? I would restrict this to dry fly/emerger fishing, i.e. the challenge is to get the best float. No nymphs or streamers. I have a marked up picture here of the actual spot from Spring this year: http://www.rockypond.com/image.jpg — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

Response:

Question:

 when i lived in tx, everyone just assumed that if you had interaction with any wild animal, BAM, it was rabies time.  

BAM pretty much describes the typical Texan’s wild animal interactions, doesn’t it<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Wolfgang, and others.. let me add just one more bit of info, not definitive, but what the hell quote " Since 1980, 17 of 32 cases of human rabies in the United States have been associated with bat-related virus variants. Noteworthy, only one of these patients had a definite bite history. These cases and recent findings suggest that limited or insignificant physical contact with rabid bats may cause infection, even without a clear history of animal bite. " (this from Center for diseas control and precention, http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/fact/rabies.htm   ) while all told, it is a very small numer of total cases, it is a signifacnt percentage of that total. All told however, I suspect that wolfgang is correct in noting that bats wont get ya sick. and for the record, I think bats are very cool, and have had, not now but in the past, bat boxes set up in my yard. cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. Bats are no more likely than any other mammal to carry rabies.  They also happen to be highly susceptible to the effects of the disease once they contract it.  In other words, once they are infected they succumb rather quickly, thus making them less likely than other animals to pass it on.  The notion that bats are high risk rabies transmitters is just another of the many unsupported myths surrounding these most useful  and interesting animals.

Response:

Charlie, Almost.  I believe the word you were looking for was BANG. cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  when i lived in tx, everyone just assumed that if you had interaction with any wild animal, BAM, it was rabies time. BAM pretty much describes the typical Texan’s wild animal interactions, doesn’t it<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Almost.  I believe the word you were looking for was BANG.

Depends on the caliber<g. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang, and others.. let me add just one more bit of info, not definitive, but what the hell quote " Since 1980, 17 of 32 cases of human rabies in the United States have been associated with bat-related virus variants. Noteworthy, only one of these patients had a definite bite history. These cases and recent findings suggest that limited or insignificant physical contact with rabid bats may cause infection, even without a clear history of animal bite. " (this from Center for diseas control and precention, http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/fact/rabies.htm   ) while all told, it is a very small numer of total cases, it is a signifacnt percentage of that total. All told however, I suspect that wolfgang is correct in noting that bats wont get ya sick. and for the record, I think bats are very cool, and have had, not now but in the past, bat boxes set up in my yard.

Very interesting.  This is the first I have ever heard about the possible transmission of rabies without a bite, and it does change the equation considerably.  Despite the irrational fear and dread so many people feel for bats, I suspect that they are more frequently handled than most other wild mammals.  Very few people are likely to handle a wild raccoon or skunk for example, regardless of the possibility of the animal being rabid, because of the comparatively high likelihood of being bitten.  Bats, on the other hand, are typically very small and much less formidable.  And, since they are frequently found in relatively large numbers in and around people’s yards, not to mention trout streams, contact must be more frequent. No reasonable person would recommend handling bats or any other wild animals unnecessarily.  And, of course, when handling bats is deemed necessary (for example, when one has gotten hold of your last good hex imitation) it should be done while wearing heavy leather gloves.  Nevertheless, as you pointed out, the risk is small enough that bats should not be stigmatized and persecuted as they so often are. I put up a bat box on a friend’s house about three years ago.  Unfortunately, the yard is heavily shaded, and there is no good place to put a box to take advantage of early morning sunshine which, I have read, is a necessary condition for attracting the bats.

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Taste good they do.  I used to fish for them at night (they are very active at night), when they often come into shallower water, with diving Rapalas.  Good fun.  Interestingly, we used to see bats flying over our heads. I believe some call walleye yellow pike??? Walleye have to be about the most misnamed fish there is. They’re members of the perch family. Walleye fishing is like a religion in Minnesota, but I didn’t much care for them when I lived there. They don’t fight hard and you have to fish deep. Live minnows and jigs work best. They taste good, though. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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So, what happened to the bat?

He floated off the swim deck and out into the lake a few minutes after I put him down.  He was still alive as near as I could tell. Natty

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ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. edwin

I appreciate your concern….I put on a pair of thick neoprene  (sealz skin type) gloves before I handled him.  His little mouth was going a mile a minute trying to get a bite! Natty

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So, what happened to the bat? He floated off the swim deck and out into the lake a few minutes after I put him down.  He was still alive as near as I could tell.

Eek!  I read somewhere long ago that ALL animals can swim……but I don’t know….bats?…..emus?…..or are they still extinct?….hm….. Wolfgang

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So, what happened to the bat? He floated off the swim deck and out into the lake a few minutes after I put him down.  He was still alive as near as I could tell.

Bats are nothing. My fishing partner caught an albatross at Christmas Island, and I have the photo to prove it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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you have a better chance of getting rabbies from a cow

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. edwin I appreciate your concern….I put on a pair of thick neoprene  (sealz skin type) gloves before I handled him.  His little mouth was going a mile a minute trying to get a bite! Natty

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Yeah, really, and we all know rabbies don’t eat anything that’s not kosher. you have a better chance of getting rabbies from a cow

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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[snipped a batty story] Natty

Natty – question. What’s a pickerel? In the Great White North, we call walleye, pickerel.  Is this a pike in your part of the world? Peter

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Natty – question. What’s a pickerel? In the Great White North, we call walleye, pickerel.  Is this a pike in your part of the world?

Yes, pickerel are a member of the pike family though plain pickerel are usually smaller than walleye.  There are a few types but the one I most commonly run into is just a plain pickerel or sometimes referred to as a grass pickerel (not to be confused with a chain pickerel which is much larger and a highly sought after game fish).  They have rounded, elongated bodies with a kind of flat, duck billed head/mouth. They are sort of greenish in color with dark brown/black thick vertical stripes that stretch from the top of their backs to about 2/3 down to the belly.  Oh yea, don’t mess with the teeth.  They are like daggers and can leave a permanent scar (told from experience).  They are a fun fish to catch, very strong and fast swimmers  though not at all acrobatic.  Once hooked they mostly try to go deep or straight away… I’ve never seen one jump. For more of a textbook type description check out http://members.tripod.com/~huntingfishing/grasspickerel.htm I don’t know what family of fish walleye are in (or if they are related to the pike or pickerel.  That’s pretty interesting though that walleye are called pickerel in your neck of the woods.  I’m gong to do some research..you’ve peaked my interest. Natty

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forgot – many years ago I caught a big northern while trolling and it did a tail walk right in front of an old couple sitting in a row boat, worm dunking for perch.  Shocked the hell out of ‘em.   They’re not shy about leaving the water, here.

Boy would I love to hook a nice northern!  That must have been some show that fish gave those folks.  Last year while on a hunting trip near Shefferville I passed on a chance to go out with one of the local natives and a few others for northerns.  I was having so much fun catching speckled trout (thats what the camp cook called them) out of a canoe in the lake right in camp that I didn’t want to leave.  After two more days of catching and releasing about 100 of these beatiful little trout I wish I had gone out for a chance at the big guys. Don’t know why I’ve never seen a pickerel jump.  Maybe the way I played them or maybe that’s just a difference between the pickerel and their bigger cousing the northerns.  I have seen shows and pictures with northerns doing the tail walk, just never been lucky enough to have a pickerel do one for me. Natty

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A friend invited me out on his boat for a nighttime fishing outing specifically to land walleye.  His boat, a beautiful 18 footer, is docked at a nearby lake which is the largest lake in the state.  Years ago the state decided to stock walleye and tiger muskies to add to the pickerel, channel cats, bass and other abundant species of game fish in the hopes of creating a world class trophy lake….they’ve succeeded to a degree. We set out just after dark, despite a sporadic misty rain. The water was like glass and it was quite warm and as a result, the pvc rain suit was a bit uncomfortable.  My friend had a ready supply of herring for bait which had been working for him the last few weeks.  I was eager to try out the new Okuma 5/6 disc drag on my old Fenwick 6 wt. in a setting that was completely unchartered for me.  Thanks to Walt, I also had some very nice streamers which are quite convincing herring imitations and a few clousers in varying colors and sizes.  Another first for me was the addition of a 4ft, lead core braided sink tip added onto my WF-F6 line.  I anticipated quite a different casting experience between the sink tip and the heavy streamer….chuck and duck! We got to our spot, the mist had stopped and my rig was all ready to fish.  A few false casts to get some line out and MAN, this was different!  That darn sink tip was really loading the rod and it made the streamers feel even heavier than they were.  After a minute or two of fooling around with the casting stroke and timing, I had it down well enough to be functional. My friend had his two poles already in rod holders with the baitfish doing their jobs well under the surface.  He was now engaged in lighting a cigar and tending to the cooler full of ale.  I on the other hand, was working the streamer and dealing with the sink tip during the casts. Thirty minutes into the fishing and visibility was now about 3 feet. A dense fog had descended on the water and the mist picked up again. Our Coleman fluorescent lanterns seemed to be the only visible light anywhere on the huge lake. It was quite a setting.  I noticed the line had become even harder to cast so I brought it in for a check.  Ah, no wonder….a clump of weeds were on the streamer.  As I brought the streamer to hand it emitted a screech and shook violently.  AAGGGHH, it nearly sent me to the deck as I stumbled over the bait bucket.  It was a bat!  Apparently, during a false cast this bat thought he had hit the mother load of juicy bugs and swooped in for the kill.  He wasn’t hooked but the leader had wrapped around him and he was subject to at least 2 or 3 more casts and being drug through the water as bait before I realized something was amiss.  I carefully unwrapped him and placed him on the swim platform on the back of the boat where he sat dazed but alive. Throughout the rest of the evening neither of us managed to catch a walleye.  I did catch two decent pickerel (the Okuma disc drag was up to the task)and my friend caught a huge catfish on the herring. Still, nothing will ever compare to my first terrestrial! Natty

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wolfgang, now now.. dont get bent out of shape.  I noted i was assuming the most possibly alarmist role I could. I suppose that it also depends on where one lives.. in the "rabies belt" of the US, people make all kinds of assumptions about wild animals having rabies.  when i lived in tx, everyone just assumed that if you had interaction with any wild animal, BAM, it was rabies time.  likely not the same assumptions elsewhere. cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. Bats are no more likely than any other mammal to carry rabies.  They also happen to be highly susceptible to the effects of the disease once they contract it.  In other words, once they are infected they succumb rather quickly, thus making them less likely than other animals to pass it on.  The notion that bats are high risk rabies transmitters is just another of the many unsupported myths surrounding these most useful  and interesting animals.

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ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend invited me out on his boat for a nighttime fishing outing specifically to land walleye.  His boat, a beautiful 18 footer, is docked at a nearby lake which is the largest lake in the state.  Years ago the state decided to stock walleye and tiger muskies to add to the pickerel, channel cats, bass and other abundant species of game fish in the hopes of creating a world class trophy lake….they’ve succeeded to a degree. We set out just after dark, despite a sporadic misty rain. The water was like glass and it was quite warm and as a result, the pvc rain suit was a bit uncomfortable.  My friend had a ready supply of herring for bait which had been working for him the last few weeks.  I was eager to try out the new Okuma 5/6 disc drag on my old Fenwick 6 wt. in a setting that was completely unchartered for me.  Thanks to Walt, I also had some very nice streamers which are quite convincing herring imitations and a few clousers in varying colors and sizes.  Another first for me was the addition of a 4ft, lead core braided sink tip added onto my WF-F6 line.  I anticipated quite a different casting experience between the sink tip and the heavy streamer….chuck and duck! We got to our spot, the mist had stopped and my rig was all ready to fish.  A few false casts to get some line out and MAN, this was different!  That darn sink tip was really loading the rod and it made the streamers feel even heavier than they were.  After a minute or two of fooling around with the casting stroke and timing, I had it down well enough to be functional. My friend had his two poles already in rod holders with the baitfish doing their jobs well under the surface.  He was now engaged in lighting a cigar and tending to the cooler full of ale.  I on the other hand, was working the streamer and dealing with the sink tip during the casts. Thirty minutes into the fishing and visibility was now about 3 feet. A dense fog had descended on the water and the mist picked up again. Our Coleman fluorescent lanterns seemed to be the only visible light anywhere on the huge lake. It was quite a setting.  I noticed the line had become even harder to cast so I brought it in for a check.  Ah, no wonder….a clump of weeds were on the streamer.  As I brought the streamer to hand it emitted a screech and shook violently.  AAGGGHH, it nearly sent me to the deck as I stumbled over the bait bucket.  It was a bat!  Apparently, during a false cast this bat thought he had hit the mother load of juicy bugs and swooped in for the kill.  He wasn’t hooked but the leader had wrapped around him and he was subject to at least 2 or 3 more casts and being drug through the water as bait before I realized something was amiss.  I carefully unwrapped him and placed him on the swim platform on the back of the boat where he sat dazed but alive. Throughout the rest of the evening neither of us managed to catch a walleye.  I did catch two decent pickerel (the Okuma disc drag was up to the task)and my friend caught a huge catfish on the herring. Still, nothing will ever compare to my first terrestrial! Natty

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I believe some call walleye yellow pike??? Thanks – sounds like what we’d call grass pike and northern pike – the grass pike being the smaller.  Here, pickerel are walleye – same fish – different name.  Some of the Canadian TV fishing personalities have been using the American terms and the name ‘pickerel’ is starting to fall into disuse.

Regards, Jeff

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[snip] Thanks – sounds like what we’d call grass pike and northern pike – the grass pike being the smaller.  Here, pickerel are walleye – same fish – different name.  Some of the Canadian TV fishing personalities have been using the American terms and the name ‘pickerel’ is starting to fall into disuse. Peter

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forgot – many years ago I caught a big northern while trolling and it did a tail walk right in front of an old couple sitting in a row boat, worm dunking for perch.  Shocked the hell out of ‘em.   They’re not shy about leaving the water, here. Peter

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I believe some call walleye yellow pike???

Walleye have to be about the most misnamed fish there is. They’re members of the perch family. Walleye fishing is like a religion in Minnesota, but I didn’t much care for them when I lived there. They don’t fight hard and you have to fish deep. Live minnows and jigs work best. They taste good, though. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – forgot – many years ago I caught a big northern while trolling and it did a tail walk right in front of an old couple sitting in a row boat, worm dunking for perch.  Shocked the hell out of ‘em.   They’re not shy about leaving the water, here. Boy would I love to hook a nice northern!  That must have been some show that fish gave those folks.  Last year while on a hunting trip near Shefferville I passed on a chance to go out with one of the local natives and a few others for northerns.  I was having so much fun catching speckled trout (thats what the camp cook called them) out of a canoe in the lake right in camp that I didn’t want to leave.  After two more days of catching and releasing about 100 of these beatiful little trout I wish I had gone out for a chance at the big guys. Don’t know why I’ve never seen a pickerel jump.  Maybe the way I played them or maybe that’s just a difference between the pickerel and their bigger cousing the northerns.  I have seen shows and pictures with northerns doing the tail walk, just never been lucky enough to have a pickerel do one for me.

The pickerel we catch in New England have the "jump, shake, and toss the hook" move down to a science… /daytripper

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ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho.

Bats are no more likely than any other mammal to carry rabies.  They also happen to be highly susceptible to the effects of the disease once they contract it.  In other words, once they are infected they succumb rather quickly, thus making them less likely than other animals to pass it on.  The notion that bats are high risk rabies transmitters is just another of the many unsupported myths surrounding these most useful  and interesting animals.

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<snipped interesting tale of chiropteran catch So, what happened to the bat? Wolfgang fledermaus fan

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Question:

Frank The next fishing truck will likely be a Nissan Xterra – it has a first aid kit and looks like a poor man’s Rover. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html I just bought an Xterra about month ago. Seems like a pretty well thought out vehicle. You can get waterproof neoprene seat covers, it has a basket within the roof rack (rack is well capable of hauling a canoe) thats great for waders and boots. The back seat is higher than convential rear seats, (Nissan calls it stadium seating) that is great for my kids to see out on some of the less travelled roads that Dad takes them on. Tim, not an x’r, Long Before you buy.

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(snip glowing review of ford econoline van)

    there you have it; unabashed praise by the very soul of practical living:  john asadi!     and i woulda had him figured for a clapped-out karmann-ghia! wayno

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in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.   The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?

I got a 2wd Mazda (Ranger).  180lbs of sand over the rear wheels and I’ve had no problem.  Very few 4wd vehicles are expected to go off road anyway. Just be careful in the rain & snow and you’ll have no problem (I spun out on I-80 once but it was entirely my fault and I’ve learned my lesson). Mu

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Thinkin’ that my next fishing vehicle might be a 2003 Ford Escape Hybrid. Get’s 40 mpg. Mu

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 Thoughts?

Ex NATO Unimog. — Charlie…

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Frank Three years ago, I bought a new Mazda B4000 extended cab 2 w. drive and put a cap on it.  The thing is 100% Ranger with a Mazda nameplate. It even says "Ford" on the inside of the doors.   It has heavy duty everything, limited slip, semi-knobby tires and today it saw a little offroading as I drove it into a field to get to a nice fishing spot. The thing has 126K miles so far, aiming for 250k.  It’s been re-ended three times and smacked in the front three times.  The paint’s peeling off the cap, the front bumper has seen better days and it has a persistent missfire that’s driving me nuts.  It’s even transported a severely hungover Forty (who isn’t here to defend himself) at a high rate of knots in pursuit of pj, ash, and jeffy.  It’ll hold all my fishing shit plus two inflated float tubes and enough beer to last anyone. The next fishing truck will likely be a Nissan Xterra – it has a first aid kit and looks like a poor man’s Rover. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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The next fishing truck will likely be a Nissan Xterra – it has a first aid kit and looks like a poor man’s Rover.

Unless I can find an original Toyota Land Crusier in good shape.  I love those old, ugly muthas. Peter Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be.

Hi, I’m partial to Toyota pickups, as are the local car thieves. So when my last one went away without my permission, it was replaced by a Subaru 4wd wagon. Not quite as tough as the truck in ugly situations, but still we’ve taken it lots of places we weren’t sure it would go! Only problem is it only sleeps one comfortably… Cheers, Rick

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the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be.

In Feb. I bought a new Ford F150 XLT short narrow bed in black with air-conditioning and the largest v-8 they make in a 1/2 ton. I think it is against the law to sell a vehicle in Texas without an air-conditioner. Well if not it should be. The only problem I have had is living in this information age. The damn thing has one of those little gadgets that tells you how hot it is inside the cab of the truck…when it is 106 outside and the black truck has been parked in the sun and I get in and start the truck I don’t want to know that it is 165 degrees in the cab of the truck. I gotta move somewhere where it is not so damn hot!!!!! Big Dale  

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.Three years ago, I bought a new Mazda B4000 extended cab 2 w. drive and put a cap on it. The thing has 126K miles so far, aiming for 250k

    42K per year?!  Man, you be the king of road warriors.  I’ll have to look at the Mazda (in 15 or 20 years when this Ranger finally gives up the ghost.).         Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Unless I can find an original Toyota Land Crusier in good shape.  I love those old, ugly muthas.

Yeah, those things are great. I’d love to have one, too, but the prices on ‘em around here (foothills of California’s Sierra Nevada) tend to be higher than Jim Morrison when he wrote "An American Prayer." My current must-have fishing vehicle is a late-model VW Vanagon Syncro 4WD with the Westfalia camper conversion. My wife and I did a four month driveabout through great, gaping chunks of the U.S. and Canada in a VW Eurovan camper a few years back and have lusted after the Vanagon syncro model ever since (shorter wheelbase than the EV, higher ground clearance, and the Westfalia conversion is to the Winnebago conversion as the novels of Philip Roth are to those of Norman Mailer — more fully realized in much less space). Alas, the syncro campers suffer from the same malady as the old Toyota LC’s — everyone else wants one too, so the prices are Italian lettuce (which is to say, radicchio). – sid not portnoy, but complaining anyway

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Well….one of these days I’ll have to woryy about gas mileage but by then maybe the manufacturers will have done better – yeah right… anyhow, I’m partial to Econline vans.  I get the plastic like your grandmother used for the walkways in her house and cut it to fit/cover the entire floor area. Muddy feet and such..?…just sweep clean and then mop. I haul wood in the very back…with old sheets or greasy dirty stuff with a plastic tablecloth.  Enough room to sleep in in a pinch….even two people if the captains chairs in the passenger area are removed. Lay the back seat down and I can haul 4 x 8 sheets of anything. My kayak fits in to where I can shut the doors. Wolf, RW and Kn will be pleased to know that I made some rod holders that keep all rods up by the ceiling over your head. lot to be said for hauling four or six adults….comfortably, with plenty of room…..somebody in your group has to be able to do that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).   I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.   Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?       Frank Reid Before you buy.

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‘01 Subaru Forester to replace my ‘98. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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 I have a Dodge Dakota 4×4 which serves me fine. Being a mid size I managed to get down a couple of trails that a full size might have had a little trouble. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).   I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.   Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?       Frank Reid Before you buy.

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4WD Toyota Pickup King Cab, good gas mileage comfortable and very reliable. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, <snip Frank Reid

Response:

Hi Frank, I just did something similar to your Ranger, except I’m a real Cheapo.  I looked at the Rangers, Tacoma’s, S-10, Sonoma etc.  All too expensive for me (On a budget – Student Loans).  I wanted a Tacoma as I have a preference to Toyota related back to some good experiences.  However, cheapest bottom of the line 4 cylinder stripped was $13,700. I found an Izusu dealership with some deals through the fleet department on stripped 2000 Hombres for $9,777.  It came with bumper and A/C (This is Arizona – A/C is standard).  I had to go out and buy my own Stereo. It’s a 4 cylinder, but still has enough power to climb the Mogollon Rim so that’s OK. I have a little over 5,000 miles on it and been up the Rim about 4 times. So far, I am very happy with it. I plan to put a shell on it and build a camping unit in back.  I’ve done this before in Toyota pickups and have been very successful with the outcome. Good Luck — Bill Endicott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).    I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.    Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Frank, I’d say you got a good price on that truck.  Now, me bein’ a loyal Toyota fan, my current 91 Toy pick-em-up is due for a replacement in a year or two, but if I could do it now, it’d be another Toyota 2 wheel drive Xlong cab to stow all my fishin’ gear behind the front seat and out of sight. A 6′ bed with cap, and a 4" foam mattress and sleeping bag/pillow/teddy bear in the back. (exactly the setup I have now) I have spent many a happy nite in my little rice burner and saved more than the price of the truck on motel bills I didn’t run up.  You might get to see it if I can make the mini-clave with you guys in August. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).    I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.    Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Hello, I wanted a pickup so I could have the back for dirty stuff like outboard motors with stinky gas tanks, electric motors with batteries and dirty waders and boots. I am going to my local small town Ford dealer soon and order a new 2001 Ranger pickup. I am getting the new 205hp overhead cam V6, 5 speed auto trans, 4 wheel drive, limited slip, trailer package. I am going to put on a good canopy w/boat rack for my canoe or 10′ Valco pram. I am getting a larger 16′ boat, motor and trailer so I wanted 4 wheel drive for launching it in bad places. I guess it will be around $25,000. I had an Explorer once that I really loved and this is built on the same platform. The cab is a little more comfortable than most other small trucks. Ranger is the top selling small pickup in it’s class for over a decade.  – Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).    I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.    Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Thoughts?

My current car is a 97 Expedition XLT 4WD 5.4 L. It replaced my Rodeo by being able to tow the Tournament 19 and carry my fly rods rigged overhead w/ the use of web rod holders. My next vehicle will be a Navigator. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid."  …I said that.

Response:

  Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be.

        subaru station wagon.  but, truth be known, i’d rather have charlie choc’s "used" land rover 90 series.  damn thing is in better condition than it was when it left the showroom floor. wayno

Response:

wayno, underachiever, writes: subaru station wagon.  but, truth be known, i’d rather have charlie choc’s "used" land rover 90 series.  damn thing is in better condition than it was when it left the showroom floor.

Audi Avant.  The new "off roader".  Plenty of power and luxury, yet rugged and able to take you just about anywhere with Audi’s Quattro system of all-wheel drive.  And it’ll last you a life time.  Wouldn’t mind havin’ Choc man’s 90 rover either. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’m partial to 4WD pickups, but to be honest since I needed a dadmobile I settled for a Cherokee a couple of years ago. My favorite fishing ride was an old jeep commanche with an aluminum cap, we put some fishing miles on that one and never got stuck, can’t say that for my old nissan pickup, we got stuck once or twice in 190K miles… Got my eye on a king cab toyota tacoma 4WD for the next ordealmaster pickup, add a cap and it’s the balls for carrying the canoe and float tube out to the woods of Maine for the odd brookie or two. Flyfish

Response:

   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  <snip It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid

Frank,   Sounds like you’ve got a pretty nice rig at a reasonable price.   I’ve got a 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee.  We bought it new and have put on 57,000 miles in just over 2 years.  I was thinking about trading for a GMC 1/2 ton club cab with 4 doors, 4×4, etc. and then plugged in what the wholesale price on my used Jeep was.  Around $15,000.  It cost me $7,500/year to own a new Jeep.  Bummer.  The Jeep has been the finest auto that I’ve ever owned.  I love it.  It drives like a car and yet will go anywhere I care to go.  Ownership has been trouble free.  I decided to buy an extended warranty which will get me past 92,000 miles.  Depreciation should slow down over the next few years.  In a couple of years, I’m thinking I will trade the wife’s Miata off and get a slightly used pickup (above) and keep the Jeep for local driving.   I did look at new Jeeps but they changed the shape of the rear opening and my pontoon would not fit through it.  If anyone in the group is considering a Jeep, I would highly recommend that they buy one with the "Up Country" suspension.  This not only raises the Jeep a bit but makes highway driving much more enjoyable.  I wouldn’t have a Jeep without this option.   One could possibly get by without 4 wheel drive around here.  One of the main advantages is the increased height.  This is an advantage whether climbing rocks or plowing through snow.  A 2 wheel drive pickup with positraction or a rear end locker and taller tires would probably go almost anywhere a 4×4 would go for most folks.  There are a few trails around here where 4×4’s are essential, though.   I’m heading to the western clave tomorrow a.m.  The Jeep is going to be pretty full.  A short box pickup with a topper would be nice for both hauling stuff and sleeping.  I’m not much of a fan of sleeping on the ground.  And, with some of our fellow roffers being so close by, sleeping quarters with locks might not be a bad idea:) Bob Skinner   Buffalo, WY — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).    I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.    Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.    Much obliged.    paul

Response:

Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.   Much obliged.   paul

        i have gone to atlantic many times, and caught nice blues and pompano in close with spinning gear.  however, that has been in the late summer and early fall.  if you want to try a pier, go to the iron city pier in the pine knolls shore area of the island. wayno

Response:

Hi, folks. I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod. I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier. Much obliged. paul

Still a little early for much to be happening.  Sometimes you can catch a school of False Albacore at the end od the pier but this is "iffy". Most piers are officially closed but still allow you to fish for free, just not opening their pier houses.  Check the inlets for possible striper action. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Paul, If you have access to some kind of small boat like a skiff, a kayak or even a canoe you can have a great time.  If you can get back into any of the creeks along either side of the ICW you may indeed find some redfish and/or specks.  Good flies include chat/white clousers and if the water is murky the Copperhead works wonders.  I will not be in the Atlantic Beach area myself during that time frame but any help I can send your way via email I will be happy to assist.  Check at Pete’s Tackle Shop on Arendell Street in Morehead City for more info. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.    Much obliged.    paul

Response:

You mean the Iron Steamer pier, and it has hurricane damage that hasn’t been repaired. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.   Much obliged.   paul i have gone to atlantic many times, and caught nice blues and pompano in close with spinning gear.  however, that has been in the late summer and early fall.  if you want to try a pier, go to the iron city pier in the pine knolls shore area of the island. wayno

Response:

Latest reports from Bogue Inlet Pier (about 20 miles on other end of Bogue Banks — check thier website) is reporting big blow fish, spotty gray and speckled trout, and periodically good shows of sea mullet.  The flounder should start anytime now, as should blues (they are present farther south near the SC border and moving north).  Spots will probably be more abundant in 2 weeks from now, false albacore should be active just offshore (try the end of a pier), and a few other early birds like cobia may be starting up, depending on water temp.  Off-shore in the Gulf Stream you will be able to get tuna, wahoo, and dolphin (maui maui, dorado, etc.). Enjoy!  Try the NC inshore offshore web page for fishing reports. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.   Much obliged.   paul

Response:

Paul, Go to the Aquarium to access the sound. This time of the year, I normally fish the running tide (both in and out) over sand bars for Flounder (on a fly rod). I prefer to be on the sound with the lowest tide, closest to sunrise. My Out (In) Laws live right off Salther Path in PKS, and I take a small boat down to the Sound side near the Sheraton. Also, the Oysters and Mussels will be good for the pickin’ (if you are in to it). Good Luck ! SD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.    Much obliged.    paul

Response:

Question:

As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

Hi Fly2bass, I never really thought about it since I do not use loop connectors, except for line to leader.  But does this mean that the braided leader systems are not a good thing?  This is the only case where I have seen loop to loop connection for the leader to tippet. — Fritz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

<Rant on – I believe the origninator of this thread was Greg Wood.  Greg, I flat cannot believe that a looped tippet connection has ANY negative effect on presentation, dry fly or otherwise.  This is based on a fair amount of experience with these connections.  I do hope you try the looped system and report here what you conclude from the experiment.  I would consider THAT useful information.  That kind of information is what I read this newsgroup for.  Don’t worry about the gushing negativity based on heresy. – Rant off Hi Fitz, I haven’t tried the Orvis system yet because I can’t see what advantage the Orvis system might offer over more conventional setups.  Still, I plan to give em a try next time I place an order with Orvis, simply because I am curious. Always looking for a better way to do things.  Does anyone out there who has actually tried the Ovis leader system like it?  If not, Why? You would see more examples of loop-to-loop rigging if you read the saltwater literature or talked to people that fish the salt.  Lefty Kreh is the most widely known advocate of loop connections that I can name. I hesitate to use his name because last time I said "Lefty does it " I drew hostile fire.   I don’t know how widespread the practice is but it does have a following. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Fly2bass, I never really thought about it since I do not use loop connectors, except for line to leader.  But does this mean that the braided leader systems are not a good thing?  This is the only case where I have seen loop to loop connection for the leader to tippet. — Fritz As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

John A Schroeder writes:

(snip) I haven’t tried the Orvis system yet because I can’t see what advantage the Orvis system might offer over more conventional setups.  Still, I plan to give em a try next time I place an order with Orvis, simply because I am curious. Always looking for a better way to do things.  Does anyone out there who has actually tried the Ovis leader system like it?  If not, Why?

I have used the braided loop on the line to a perfection loop on the leader, and it certainly didn’t stop me from catching fish.  But, if the braided loop is put on incorrectly, it could "hinge".  This happeded to me once and I simply snipped it off and put a new one on – worked fine after that.   I also use a nail knot connection on my lighter weight rods and do not notice a difference.   I think that the biggest objection to the loop to loop is that Orvis is known for putting the loop on the fly line. Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

Response:

Question:

If you like to watch fishing on the Outdoorlife network then goto the following site and vote for fishing/hunting or all we will be seeing is horses bicycles and kayaks http://www.greatoutdoors.com/oln/yes.html Thanks Rob

Response:

just want to let you know that i wrote a java program to constantly vote for fishing.  you should have already noticed the rapid increase in percentage points luke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you like to watch fishing on the Outdoorlife network then goto the following site and vote for fishing/hunting or all we will be seeing is horses bicycles and kayaks http://www.greatoutdoors.com/oln/yes.html Thanks Rob

Response:

Unfortunatly someone must have noticed and wrote a program of their own to vote for conservation…which i also like, but still want to keep fishing first. (looks like i’m just going to have to span 5 more copies of my program luke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-no-archive: yes just want to let you know that i wrote a java program to constantly vote for fishing.  you should have already noticed the rapid increase in percentage points Now that explains why the numbers increased faster than I could vote. Great stuff luke.

Response:

(looks like i’m just going to have to span 5 more copies of my program

For cryin’ out loud, it’s bad enough that you engage in such puerile bullshit but to come here and brag about it reveals all the social skills of a twisted teenager and the emotional maturity of a juvenile delinquent. Go away and grow up or better yet, just go away. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

well thanks for the kind words. i just happen to like fly fishing on OLN.  Sorry you disagree. Luke. p.s. not a teenager.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (looks like i’m just going to have to span 5 more copies of my program For cryin’ out loud, it’s bad enough that you engage in such puerile bullshit but to come here and brag about it reveals all the social skills of a twisted teenager and the emotional maturity of a juvenile delinquent. Go away and grow up or better yet, just go away. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

well thanks for the kind words. i just happen to like fly fishing on OLN.  Sorry you disagree.

I don’t give a damn how many ballot boxes you can stuff. It’s not particularly clever or cute and the programming decisions of OLN, whatever the hell THAT is, really don’t have anything at all to do with flyfishing anyway. p.s. not a teenager.

Then quit acting like one. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I apologize if i pissed anyone else off.  For those of you who don’t get OLN, its a wonderful network that has many fly fishing shows.  I just wanted to make sure fly fisherman (including myself) didn’t lose that.  This will be my last post. Again, sorry to all of those that i annoyed.  That was not my intention. Luke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well thanks for the kind words. i just happen to like fly fishing on OLN.  Sorry you disagree. I don’t give a damn how many ballot boxes you can stuff. It’s not particularly clever or cute and the programming decisions of OLN, whatever the hell THAT is, really don’t have anything at all to do with flyfishing anyway. p.s. not a teenager. Then quit acting like one. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I apologize if i pissed anyone else off.  For those of you who don’t get OLN, its a wonderful network that has many fly fishing shows.  I just wanted to make sure fly fisherman (including myself) didn’t lose that.  This will be my last post. Again, sorry to all of those that i annoyed.  That was not my intention.

As Fortenberry carves another notch in his belt. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Then why get on your self-appointed high horse (yet again) and demand that he leave roff?

Because I don’t like smarmy punks bragging about doing something stupid and dishonest in the name of flyfishing. Bite me Powlesland and note the date. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I apologize if i pissed anyone else off.  For those of you who don’t get OLN, its a wonderful network that has many fly fishing shows.  I just wanted to make sure fly fisherman (including myself) didn’t lose that.  This will be my last post. Again, sorry to all of those that i annoyed.  That was not my intention. Luke

The problem being, you’ve invalidated the survey results.  It won’t take a genius at OLN to figure somebody has spiked their results. BTW, judging by the amount Conservation went up, your little java thingy was probably doing both.   Peter

Response:

As Fortenberry carves another notch in his belt.

Always happy to be of service to honest flyfisher folk the world over. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

X-no-archive: yes Because I don’t like smarmy punks bragging about doing something stupid and dishonest in the name of flyfishing. And who appointed a pompous, pretentious, ass like yourself to be the defender of flyfishing’s "name"?

Whoa, I think ‘pretentious’ might be a little strong there… <g — Charlie…

Response:

And who appointed a pompous, pretentious, ass like yourself to be the defender of flyfishing’s "name"?

Golly, what an honor. Insults and name calling from ROFF’s premier stalker. I am humbled, sweetums. I don’t want to replace TBone in your heart of hearts but please, do think of me in your latex fantasies. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

If Jim actually does have dreams, I’d guess they involve untanned leather. 8^) RalphH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Golly, what an honor. Insults and name calling from ROFF’s premier stalker. I am humbled, sweetums. I don’t want to replace TBone in your heart of hearts but please, do think of me in your latex fantasies. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Because I don’t like smarmy punks bragging about doing something stupid and dishonest in the name of flyfishing. And who appointed a pompous, pretentious, ass like yourself to be the defender of flyfishing’s "name"?

I did, in point of fact. And your defense of less-than-honest methods has been noted in the Great Book of Karma. BMPIA. Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

As for "stalking", why do *you* persist on sending me private email?

Why thank you for asking, my email to you verbatim: Do you EVER post an opinion on flyfishing equipment, a trip report, an answer to a query or ANYTHING save contentious bullshit ? Seriously, Jim, I think you need to seek help, your animosity and stalking behavior is a symptom of an illness. I wish you the best, — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Do you EVER post an opinion on flyfishing equipment, a trip report, an answer to a query or ANYTHING save contentious bullshit ?

FWIW, since deja doesn’t archive ‘no archive’ posts there’s no way to answer this question to your satisfaction, but in my recollection he actually does do those things on occasion and probably more often than ‘your pal’. Just what is a ’stalker stalker’ called, anyway<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Ken Fortenberry! snipped ravings: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seriously, Jim, I think you need to seek help, your animosity and stalking behavior is a symptom of an illness. I wish you the best,  (NOT!)

Response:

Do you EVER post an opinion on flyfishing equipment, a trip report, an answer to a query or ANYTHING save contentious bullshit ? Yes I do. In fact I was posting quite civilly in roff for the past few months until you decided to barge in and throw insults around.

Gotta give credit where credit is due.  Jim’s been eerily civil lately.      - Ken

Response:

Yes I do. In fact I was posting quite civilly in roff for the past few months until you decided to barge in and throw insults around.

I must’ve missed all that civility, and for the record, I wasn’t insulting you, hell, I wasn’t even talking to you. I was flaming "Brown Trout" to hell and back for the twit script ballot stuffing bullshit. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-no-archive: yes Why thank you for asking, my email to you verbatim: So why bother emailing it to me in the first place? Harassment? Do you EVER post an opinion on flyfishing equipment, a trip report, an answer to a query or ANYTHING save contentious bullshit ? Yes I do. In fact I was posting quite civilly in roff for the past few months until you decided to barge in and throw insults around. Seriously, Jim, I think you need to seek help, your animosity and stalking behavior is a symptom of an illness. This is rich coming from roff’s resident bully. I wish you the best, And I fully intend to stand up to your abusive bluster.

______  Jim you’re welcome to slap him silly when he does become abusive.  His kind of nonsense has to stop.  It is not good for ROFF as he baits the other bottom dwellers when he behaves like this, using his daughter as an excuse to do so, behind the scenes.  He thinks he has rights!  Let’s not buy his personal problems as that excuse to behave badly here.  So far, I dread the first day he showed up here.  I wish he would just go away or get counciling at the University.  He has NOT made this news group any better after all his New Year wishes to everyone. Pathetic.  Truly pathetic and the soon everyone helps stop this kind of conduct will ROFF have a chance of becoming a pleasant place again. We will talk more about it tonight because ROFF has been a regular conversation at the chat site lately. George Gehrke   — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

You don’t get OLN, you didn’t even know what it was.  You just saw it and decided to be an asshole.  People who do get OLN wrote to thank me.  The reason i did it in the first place was because the ballot was already stuffed (someone else had a program running voting for something else).  We just want to keep our damn fly-fishing shows.  Since you don’t get OLN, and didn’t know what it was, why didn’t you keep your mouth shut?  Couldn’t resist the temptation to be an asshole. I don’t give a damn how many ballot boxes you can stuff. It’s not particularly clever or cute and the programming decisions of OLN, whatever the hell THAT is, really don’t have anything at all to do with flyfishing anyway.

Nothing to do with fly fishing eh?  You are an idiot. Luke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes I do. In fact I was posting quite civilly in roff for the past few months until you decided to barge in and throw insults around. I must’ve missed all that civility, and for the record, I wasn’t insulting you, hell, I wasn’t even talking to you. I was flaming "Brown Trout" to hell and back for the twit script ballot stuffing bullshit. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… why didn’t you keep your mouth shut?  Couldn’t resist the temptation to be an asshole.

I’m not tempted to be an asshole, I AM an asshole and one of the things that really peeves me is too clever, punk twits bragging about how cute their little scams are. It’s not cute, fool. It’s dishonest, it’s stupid and bragging about it is even stupider. Take your juvenile nonsense and stick it where the sun don’t shine. Decent, honest people want nothing to do with it. Nothing to do with fly fishing eh?  You are an idiot.

If you think sitting on your twit ass in front of the boob tube has something to do with flyfishing why are you calling ME an idiot ? Here’s a clue, free of charge, TV flyfishing is about selling stuff. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’m not tempted to be an asshole, I AM an asshole and one

Enough said.

Response:

This is .. how shall I put this politely .. low. Go chat on your nice private ginkspot, but below-the-belt attacks like this don’t belong here. And if you think they do, _you_ don’t belong here. Herman, p.o.’d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Jim you’re welcome to slap him silly when he does become abusive.  His kind of nonsense has to stop.  It is not good for ROFF as he baits the other bottom dwellers when he behaves like this, using his daughter as an excuse to do so, behind the scenes.  He thinks he has rights!  Let’s not buy his personal problems as that excuse to behave badly here.  So far, I dread the first day he showed up here.  I wish he would just go away or get counciling at the University.  He has NOT made this news group any better after all his New Year wishes to everyone. Pathetic.  Truly pathetic and the soon everyone helps stop this kind of conduct will ROFF have a chance of becoming a pleasant place again. We will talk more about it tonight because ROFF has been a regular conversation at the chat site lately. George Gehrke — http://www.gink.com/chat

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Question:

What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)?

Response:

Jtfunai: <<What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)? None, although a 1 wt line might be easier to "break" than an 8 wt. I have never heard of anyone breaking their line on *anything*. The tippet is the first thing to break. Dave L.

Response:

What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)?

There basically is no real relationship. The breaking strain of the fly-line core is the main criterion here, and this is far higher than is likely ever to be broken by a fish, assuming it is not damaged.  The weight of a fly-line is primarily determined by its coating, irrespective of the core diameter, which is basically a plastic full of glass bubbles in the case of a floater, and with lead or other powder in the case of a sinker.  The core of the line is invariably a synthetic such as Terylene or similar, and may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, as does the coating.  The "breaking strain" of a fly-line is basically irrelevant, and is seldom given by the manufacturer.  I remember seeing a level floating  line some years ago where the B.S. was given, as 60 lbs, but have not seen any such data recently. TL MC

Response:

Thanks Dave. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jtfunai: <<What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)? None, although a 1 wt line might be easier to "break" than an 8 wt. I have never heard of anyone breaking their line on *anything*. The tippet is the first thing to break. Dave L.

Response:

Thanks Mike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)? There basically is no real relationship. The breaking strain of the fly-line core is the main criterion here, and this is far higher than is likely ever to be broken by a fish, assuming it is not damaged.  The weight of a fly-line is primarily determined by its coating, irrespective of the core diameter, which is basically a plastic full of glass bubbles in the case of a floater, and with lead or other powder in the case of a sinker.  The core of the line is invariably a synthetic such as Terylene or similar, and may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, as does the coating.  The "breaking strain" of a fly-line is basically irrelevant, and is seldom given by the manufacturer.  I remember seeing a level floating  line some years ago where the B.S. was given, as 60 lbs, but have not seen any such data recently. TL MC

Response:

I agree with the other two posts with regards to weight of quarry and breaking strength of the line.  There are to many factors that would determine the breaking strength of the line while being fished.  Such as the rod and tippet being used.  The tippet will usually break before the rod and the rod before the line.  With the shock absorbing capabilities of the rod and the leader or tippet it is hard to imagine the line ever breaking on a fish unless it had been cut on something. I however just broke a Rio 9/10/11 Spey line on a snag in the Thompson River.  I was never able to see what it was snagged on but it must have been sharp.  Line weight really has no correlation with the weight of fish.  Although you would not want to use a small diameter line such as a one weight for Tarpon! Before you buy.

Response:

I agree with the other two posts with regards to weight of quarry and breaking strength of the line.  There are to many factors that would determine the breaking strength of the line while being fished.  Such as the rod and tippet being used.  The tippet will usually break before the rod and the rod before the line.  With the shock absorbing capabilities of the rod and the leader or tippet it is hard to imagine the line ever breaking on a fish unless it had been cut on something. I however just broke a Rio 9/10/11 Spey line on a snag in the Thompson River.  I was never able to see what it was snagged on but it must have been sharp.  Line weight really has no correlation with the weight of fish.  Although you would not want to use a small diameter line such as a one weight for Tarpon! Before you buy.

Response:

There is no relationship as far as I know. Traditional fly lines have a dacron core of only 20-35lb breaking strain (light lines with the thinner dacron) – of course this is plenty for normal fishing conditions. If the lines are old and cracked the dacron can deteriorate reducing the breaking strain. I know a couple of people who have broken the line when using 10kg tippet on tuna – one was a heavily used old Cortland, the other an Airflo (when they were at their worst). I broke a 3M wet cell IV once in Fiji after snagging it on the reef – it seemed like 80lb!! Some of the newest lines with braided monofilament may be stronger. Cheers John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)?

Hi JF, I think that lines #4, 5, 6 and 7 are built up on a 20# braided dacron core. #8 and larger are built on a 30# braided dacron core. I guess the new #0, 1 and 2 lines are on something smaller in diameter than 20#? This is real evident when you are trying to pull 30# backing or cheap 20# backing up inside the core of a #6 line to make a needle nail knot.

Response:

Question:

I am looking for a literary agent to represent a book that I am writing for publication.  Any suggestions?  Thanks a bunch.  I never forget those who help me. — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill                                        http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                     Dragon’s Hope Publishing Heidi Dragon Churchill                                               Business cards, ad design, forms and all manner of desktop publishing.      

Response:

I have not failed  I am a writter of peotry.  Need publishcation

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have not failed I have not failedDragon’s Hope Publishing I have not failedHeidi Dragon Churchill                                               I have not failedBusiness cards, ad design, forms and all manner of desktop publishing.       I have not failed                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

Response:

[snip] : I guess they figure the writing chores should be left lot the giants of : the industry, like Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh.  <sigh I feel for ya.  But writers like Stern aren’t the really sad cases.  You may not like him, but he has talent.  You try talking off the top of your head every day and maintaining the attention of a million listeners.  I have a hard time some days with 200 in a classroom, and they pay to be there.  Stern can tell a story. The real sad ones are the cases like this woman bomber pilot recently resigned from the Air Force.  She disobeys a direct order from her superior and gets a large advance to write a book about it.  Shameless. The author, the publisher and the editor. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

I am looking for a literary agent to represent a book that I am writing for publication.  Any suggestions?  Thanks a bunch.  I never forget those who help me. — Flyfish NC Gordon Churchill                                        http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853

Gordon, I’ve been trying to get an agent to read my novel "Blue Ice" for over a year.  I’ve got 75 rejections, and only a handful (5) even accepted the first 25 manuscript pages.  I have no idea how many of those actually even read the first page. I guess they figure the writing chores should be left lot the giants of the industry, like Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh.  <sigh As a musician friend frequently reminds me that all I need to do is get up in that bell tower with my deer rifle, and I’ll have a book deal within 48 hours.   Yes, I’m cynical.  I’m probably also paranoid.  But then, just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they aren’t all out to get you. — Mark Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297/fishing.htm Mark Cahill’s Fishing New England – Daily Fishing News http://www.reel-time.com/ The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing – Metropolitan Boston Regional Editor

Response:

Question:

I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not hip waders.  The hip boots are not so snug as neoprene and they just go up far enough to make you think you can wade in a shallow stream, then after a few steps about knee deep you step six inches deeper and suddenly have a water parachute strapped onto each leg. Damn right these things can kill you if you’re in heavy water when this

happens. You’re right, Mark. In my lexicon, "hip waders" end at a belt around the waist, while "hip boots" (which I gather is the actual topic) end around mid-thigh, and certainly can’t be "belted"… The above perspective may be due to being 6′5" tall: they don’t make "hip boots" that come to *my* hips, that’s for sure ;^) The only time I wear "hip boots" is when launching or reloading my boat – I’d wet-wade before I’d ever use a pair of those for fishing… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not The only time I wear "hip boots" is when launching or reloading my boat – I’d wet-wade before I’d ever use a pair of those for fishing… Cheers! /dave

Hi Dave, I’ve been watching this thread and for the most part agree about hip boats if you’re talking bigger water. They ARE no fun to swim in (voice of experience), but you’re not typically in chest deep water if you do go down when wearing hip boots.  Unless you oopsy and find a deep hole because you weren’t probing with your wading staff, or get washed into deep water you can usually get stood up again without too much problem.   But! When fishing very fast and rough water where I’m not quite crazy enough to wade over knee deep, or fishing small and/or well known streams, I much prefer "hip boots".  I can roll them down to get some air to vital parts, and they are much less restrictive (to me).  Scratching is easier too. I guess I’m a wuss, ’cause if I’m wading water that I know has sections over my head, or I don’t know well, I get real nervous about wading in very deep…. War story……. The last time I went down with hip boots the water was only about 30" deep.  I drug a hand to keep my head upstream, was washed into a deeper hole, stood up, and walked out.  That walk might have been a little rushed, since it was November and the water was a bit cool. I wasn’t wearing a pfd since I know the river well and have fished it for thirty years.  It was no big drama, except the walk back to the truck was miserable. If it had been a strange stream, I’d have had a pfd on and floated to the next shallow stretch, or swam to shore.  In my chest waders. Steve

Response:

FYI: I once read somewhere that Lee Wulff jumped off a bridge with waders, head first no less, to prove a point about waders filling with water. I can’t remember if they were hip or chest waders. Maybe someone else has come across this story.

No big deal for Lee…the man walked on water… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

Response:

   About 5 years ago, a visiting fisherman ventured too far out off of Oregon Beach in Cotuit (Cape Cod) and disappeared. If I remember correctly, they found what was left of him a few weeks later. The accident was attributed to his lack of knowledge of the area, which is riddled with deep water holes, and the fact that he could not get out of his waders. It happens…

Well, as apparently "what was left of him" couldn’t answer whether the waders had anything to do with his disappearance, the waders may not actually have been a factor. We lose many swimmers (not wearing waders, obviously) from undertow along the New England coast than that. I’ve swamped in my waders in heavy water (eg: Rapid River, and the Andy below the Gage House pool) and never felt at additional risk from the waders. Wear a friggin’ belt – common sense at work, imho… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

Is this discussion about panic or real danger ? If you fall in with hippers and panic…yer dead.   If you fall in with hippers and stay cool…yer alive. That’s what they tell you anyway…I dunno…. Once at a party a well intentioned but rather inebriated good friend pushed me into the deep end of the private pool.  I had on big hiking boots and levis. (Quite the pool-party-animal that I am….).  I honestly got really scared when I tried to swim but could not, sinking like a rock. On the bottom, I pushed off the bottom enough that I made it to the edge.  I’d have to think that most cases in rivers, streams and lakes, you could essentially do the same thing.  A big dropoff though ?  A man in Boulder reservoir died in hippers just this way a few years back.  Hippers in big water I think is very, very dangerous.  Not from filling with water, but because the boots themselves are more dense. TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Hmm, hip waders are dangerous, and significantly more so than chest waders. The Lee Wulff stunt was done with neoprene chest waders. Neoprene is lighter than water and will help you float. The problems with hip waders are that they fill very quickly and they open up “parachute style”. More often than not they are made of rubber, which does not float. I have been dragged away by a river both in chest neoprene waders and in rubber hip waders, and the hip waders accident was much much more scary, I thought I would have to slip off them. Hip waders often have a buckle on the side, so you can strap them to your belt. The fist thing I would do when I bougth a new pair of hip waders was to cut the damn thing off, so that, in case of emergency, it would be much easier to slip off them. This was suggested to my by the most experienced fisherman I know and by the owner of the shop I used to go to when I was in Italy. I have heard of enough accidents with hip waders back in Europe to consider them dangerous in large bodies of water.  In small bodies of water, though, they are definitely preferable, as they are much easier to get in and out of, IMHO. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

Response:

I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not hip waders.  The hip boots are not so snug as neoprene and they just go up far enough to make you think you can wade in a shallow stream, then after a few steps about knee deep you step six inches deeper and suddenly have a water parachute strapped onto each leg. Damn right these things can kill you if you’re in heavy water when this happens. I don’t think there is a practical fishing use for these, maybe for landing fish when you are shorefishing but not for wading.  Even waist height waders make a big difference where it counts most because you can belt them. If you use hip waders you should get some lacy garters to go with them.   MarK Vinsel Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

– http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Michael,     About 5 years ago, a visiting fisherman ventured too far out off of Oregon Beach in Cotuit (Cape Cod) and disappeared. If I remember correctly, they found what was left of him a few weeks later. The accident was attributed to his lack of knowledge of the area, which is riddled with deep water holes, and the fact that he could not get out of his waders. It happens… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Hi Michael I’ve not personally seen a death from hip waders but have over the years helped fly fishers who "went too far" while using hip waders on three occasions. One on the Madison River would have ended in a drown had a friend and I not been handy to pull the guy out of the water. With the full waders I don’t know if I could have pulled him out alone — the current and the full waders made for a very heavy load. I personally think hip waders are and accident waiting to happen but I’m sure there are many who would not agree. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

FYI: I once read somewhere that Lee Wulff jumped off a bridge with waders, head first no less, to prove a point about waders filling with water. I can’t remember if they were hip or chest waders. Maybe someone else has come across this story. B.

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

This is a regular, tho I’m glad to say, infrequent occurence during the fishing season in Scotland. It is wholly unnecessary because many anglers panic when they "go over the top" and do not know how to react (although sometimes drowning results from a secondary factor like heart attact from the shock as happened on the Spey last year). If you do fall in the procedure is to get on your back, keep your feet well up and pointing downstream (your feet will hit the rocks rather than your head) and paddle with your hands towards the shallow water. The late Hugh Falkus of Cumbria and flyfisher extrordinaire made an excellent video of this when he was about, I think, 70 years old, demonstrating in person. The demonstration was also shown on one the TV angling programmes over here a few years back. Hope this helps – Ian — Ian McCowen – Polwarth Manse, Greenlaw, Berwickshire TD10 6YR SCOTLAND (fine old books on Shooting, Fishing, Natural History bought & sold)

Response: